# RIAA v. The People: Five Years Later



## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

"On September 8, 2003, the recording industry sued 261 American music fans for sharing songs on peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing networks, kicking off an unprecedented legal campaign against the people that should be the recording industrys best customers: music fans.1 Five years later, the recording industry has filed, settled, or threatened legal actions against at least 30,000 individuals.2 *These individuals have included children, grandparents, unemployed single mothers, college professorsa random selection from the millions of Americans who have used P2P networks.* And theres no end in sight; new lawsuits are filed monthly, and now they are supplemented by a flood of "pre-litigation" settlement letters designed to extract settlements without any need to enter a courtroom.3

But suing music fans has proven to be an ineffective response to unauthorized P2P file-sharing. *Downloading from P2P networks is more popular than ever*, despite the widespread public awareness of lawsuits.4 *And the lawsuit campaign has not resulted in any royalties to artists.* One thing has become clear: suing music fans is no answer to the P2P dilemma."
http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later


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## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

I don't generally read EFF propaganda -- do they actually suggest an alternate solution?


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

TechGuy said:


> *I don't generally read EFF propaganda *-- do they actually suggest an alternate solution?


Info cited at bottom of page. Are all these cites sites propaganda sites?

"*One thing has become clear: suing music fans is no answer to the P2P dilemma.*" (Original link)

"*What to Do Instead*." (Same link)

Something to think about. If the RIAA is really losing all the money they say they are losing, why are they still in the Business? This is over how many years and supposedly getting worse every year? Must still be a lot of profit. Makes me wonder how much there was to begin with when they can afford these losses year after year.

I guess it depends on whose propaganda you believe.

1. 1. John Borland, "RIAA sues 261 file swappers," CNET News.com, September 8, 2003.
2. 2. David Kravets, "File Sharing Lawsuits at a Crossroads, After 5 years of RIAA Litigation," Sept. 8, 2008.
3. 3. RIAA Press Release, "RIAA Continues College Deterrence Campaign Into 2008," January 10, 2008, (discussing continuation of the "College Deterrence Campaign" into 2008, noting 407 pre-litigation settlement letters were sent to 18 universities nationwide in January).
4. 4. Janko Roettgers, "Limewire Wants to Give Record Labels a Cut of Its Ad Revenue," P2P Blog, May 13, 2008, (noting LimeWire has 80 million users generating about 5 billion search requests every month, putting Limewire on par with search engine giants like Google and Yahoo); Posting of Ernesto to TorrentFreak, "BitTorrent Trio Hit a Billion Pageviews a Month," (June 11, 2008) (describing three BitTorrent websitesMininova, The Pirate Bay, and isoHuntthat have entered the list of top 100 most visited websites on the Internet); BNET Business Wire, "Azureus Announces One Million Unique Visitors to Its Digital Media Platform Currently Code Named Zudeo," February 16, 2007, (boasting that Azureus is "the provider of the most popular P2P application for the transfer of large files" and citing over 140 million downloads of its application in the past few years).
5. 5. Courtney Macavinta, "Recording Industry Sues Music Start-up, Cites Black Market," CNET News.com, December 7, 1999 (Napster); Thomas C. Green, "MPAA, RIAA Sue Scour Over Copyrights," The Register, July 24, 2000, (Scour); John Borland, "RIAA sues Aimster Over File-Swapping," CNET News.com, May 25, 2001, (Aimster); John Borland, "Suit hits popular post-Napster network," CNET News.com, October 3, 2001, at (MusicCity, Kazaa and Grokster); Borland, "Audiogalaxy hit by RIAA suit," CNET News.com, May 24, 2002, (AudioGalaxy); John Borland, "RIAA sues iMesh file-trading firm," CNET News.com, September 19, 2003, (iMesh); Ed Oswald, "RIAA Sues LimeWire Over Piracy," BetaNews, Aug. 4, 2006, (LimeWire).
6. 6. A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc., 239 F.3d 1004 (9th Cir. 2001); MGM v. Grokster, 545 U.S. 913 (2005).
7. 7. John Borland, "Peer to Peer: As The Revolution Recedes," CNET News.com, December 31, 2001; John Borland, "P2P Users Traveling by eDonkey," CNET News.com, Aug. 28, 2005.
8. 8. A prominent example is BitTorrent, see Posting of Ernesto to TorrentFreak, "BitTorrent Trio Hit a Billion Pageviews a Month," (June 11, 2008) (describing three BitTorrent websitesMininova, The Pirate Bay, and isoHuntthat have entered the list of top 100 most visited websites on the Internet); Posting of Ernesto to TorrentFreak, "BitTorrent Sites Show Explosive Growth," (March 22, 2008) (compiling a list of the 25 most popular BitTorrent sites); Gareth Halfacree, "uTorrent Doubles Userbase," April 29, 2008, (describing popular file sharing application uTorrent).
9. 9. Gareth Halfacree , "45% of All Traffic is P2P, Say Sandvine," Bit-Tech.net, June 25, 2008.
10. 10. Lee Rainie, et al., "Music and video downloading moves beyond P2P," Pew Internet & American Life Project, Mar. 2005; Mitch Bainwol, "Building a Brighter Future  Making and Selling Great Music;" Shelly Palmer, "Clouds and Pirates: Darknets Rising," The Huffington Post, July 14, 2008.
11. 11. Sarah McBride, "File-Sharing Firms are Urged to Protect Music Industry Rights," Wall Street Journal, D8, Sept. 15, 2005.
12. 12. Joseph Menn, All the Rave: The Rise and Fall of Shawn Fanning's Napster (2003) (chronicling the rise and fall of the original Napster).
13. 13. Associated Press, "BitTorrent Gives Hollywood a Headache," USA Today, Dec. 10, 2004.
14. 14. Edward W. Felten, "P2P in 15 Lines of Code," Freedom to Tinker Blog, Dec. 15, 2004.
15. 15. Janko Roettgers, "Isohunt Moving Towards Creative Commons Licensed Content," P2P Blog, December 10, 2007; Posting of Ben Jones to TorrentFreak, "IsoHunt Adds 10,000 Free and Legal Albums," (June 21, 2008); Posting of Ernesto to TorrentFreak, "IsoHunt and MPAA Debate Legality of BitTorrent Sites," (May 4, 2008); Posting of JH to IsoHunt Forums, (June 11, 2008, 1:43pm).
16. 16. Lisa Bowman, "Labels Aim Big Guns at File Swappers," CNET News.com, June 25, 2003.
17. 17. Id.
18. 18. 17 U.S.C. § 512(h).
19. 19. Archived court documents for RIAA v. Verizon Internet Services, Inc.; RIAA v. Charter Communications, Inc.; and Pacific Bell Internet Services v. RIAA can be found on our website.
20. 20. EFF's amicus brief.
21. 21. Katie Dean, "Senator Takes a Swing at RIAA," Wired, Sept. 17, 2003.
22. 22. "Recording Industry Begins Suing P2P Filesharers Who Illegally Offer Copyrighted Music Online," RIAA Press Release, September 8, 2003.
23. 23. Helen Kennedy, "C-notes for Brianna," New York Daily News, September 11, 2003,.
24. 24. "Not-so-Jolly Rogers," The Economist, September 10, 2003.
25. 25. John Schwartz, "She Says She's No Music Pirate. No Snoop Fan, Either," New York Times, September 25, 2003.
26. 26. Dennis Roddy, "The Song Remains the Same," Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.com, Sept. 16, 2003.
27. 27. Grant Gross, "Congress Scrutinizes RIAA Tactics," IDG News, Sept. 17, 2003.
28. 28. Letter from Phil Corwin to Senate Judiciary Committee, Feb. 24 2004.
29. 29. Katie Dean, "Senator Wants Answers From RIAA," Wired News, August 1, 2003.
30. 30. John Borland, "Record industry warns of new lawsuits," CNET News.com, October 17, 2003.
31. 31. Paul Roberts, "RIAA Sues 532 'John Does,'" IDG News, January 21, 2004.
32. 32. John Borland, "RIAA files 80 new file-swapping suits," CNET News.com, October 30, 2003.
33. 33. RIAA v. Verizon, 351 F.3d 1229 (D.C. Cir. 2003).
34. 34. Roy Mark, "High Court Bounces Latest RIAA Effort," InternetNews.com, Oct. 12, 2004.
35. 35. Id.
36. 36. John Schwartz, "Recording Industry Is Accusing 532 People of Music Piracy," New York Times, January 21, 2004.
37. 37. The RIAA lawsuits began focusing on university students in September of 2004. "RIAA Brings Lawsuits Against 762 Illegal File Sharers," RIAA Press Release, September 30, 2004.
38. 38. For a running tally of lawsuit totals through February 2006, as compiled from RIAA press releases, see "RIAA Watch," .
39. 39. Justin Engel, "Music Industry Targets CMU," The Saginaw News, Apr. 16, 2007 (quoting the RIAA as filing 18,000 lawsuits).
40. 40. Jeff Leeds, "Labels Win Suit Against Song Sharer," New York Times, Oct. 5, 2007.
 41. 41. Ted Bridis, "Some Strange Twists in Music Piracy Lawsuits," Associated Press, August 23, 2004.
42. 42. Bob Mehr, "Gnat, Meet Cannon," Chicago Reader, Feb. 4, 2005.
43. 43. Jon Healey, "Another File-sharer Faces Costly Day of Reckoning," L.A. Times Technology Blog, Sept. 2, 2008.
44. 44. Eric Bangeman, "RIAA Trial Verdict Is In: Jury Finds Thomas Liable for Infringement," Ars Technica, October 4, 2007.
45. 45. "Capitol v. Thomas: Judge Orders New Trial, Implores Congress to Lower Statutory Penalties for P2P".
46. 46. "Minnesota Woman Caught in Crackdown on Music Downloaders," USA Today, May 26, 2004.
47. 47. Bob Mehr, "Gnat, Meet Cannon," Chicago Reader, Feb. 4, 2005.
48. 48. Personal communication with EFF, Apr. 8. 2005.
49. 49. Personal communication with EFF, March 12, 2005.
50. 50. Cassi Hunt, "Run Over by the RIAA Don't Tap the Glass," The Tech, Apr 4, 2006.
51. 51. "RIAA Sues Stroke Victim in Michigan," Recording Industry v. The People Blog, Mar. 13, 2007.
52. 52. Personal communication with EFF, July 6, 2005.
53. 53. Associated Press, "Music Industry Sues 83-year-old Dead Woman," Boston Globe, Feb. 4, 2005.
54. 54. "RIAA Drops Another Case In Chicago Against Misidentified Defendant," Recording Industry v. The People Blog, May 3, 2007.
55. 55. Capitol Records, Inc. v. Foster, 86 U.S.P.Q.2D 1208 (W.D. Okla. 2007).
56. 56. Orders and pleadings.
57. 57. Order and pleadings collected at Recording Industry v. The People blog.
58. 58. Timothy OConnor, "Taking on the Records Companies" The Journal News.
59. 59. "Elektra v. Santangelo -- Case Closed Except for Defendants Attorneys Fees," Recording Industry v. The People Blog, April 10, 2007.
60. 60. Anders Bylund, "RIAA Sues Santangelo Children," Ars Technica, November 3, 2006.
61. 61. Declaration of Richard L. Gabriel, Esq. In Support of Plaintiffs Motion for Award of Attorneys Fees and Costs in Connection with the Default Judgment Against Michelle Santangelo, Elektra Entertainment Group v. Michelle Santangelo & Robert Santangelo, Jr., Case No. 06CV11520 (SCR)(MDF), ¶ 4 (S.D.N.Y., July 18, 2007).
62. 62. Atlantic Recording Corp. v. Brennan, 534 F. Supp. 2d 278 (D. Conn. 2008); see also Fred von Lohmann, "RIAA File-Sharing Complaint Fails to Support Default Judgment," EFF Deeplinks Blog, February 25, 2008.
63. 63. "Capitol v. Thomas: Judge Orders New Trial, Implores Congress to Lower Statutory Penalties for P2P".
64. 64. Compare Atlantic v. Howell, 554 F. Supp. 2d 976 (D.Ariz. 2008) and London-Sire Records v. Doe, 542 F. Supp. 2d 153 (D.Mass 2008) with Elektra Entmt Group v. Barker, 551 F. Supp. 2d 234 (S.D.N.Y. 2008). Also, generally, Perfect 10 v. Amazon.com, 508 F.3d 1146, 1162 (9th Cir. 2007) ("distribution requires an actual dissemination of a copy"); National Car Rental Sys., Inc. v. Computer Assocs. Intl, Inc., 991 F.2d 426, 434 (8th Cir. 1993) (stating that "_nfringement of [the distribution right] requires an actual dissemination of either copies of phonorecords"); Hotaling v. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, 118 F.3d 199 (4th Cir. 1997) (holding a librarys merely making an infringing work available to the public for borrowing or browsing constituted an unauthorized distribution).
65. 65. EFF filed an amicus brief in the case.
66. 66. Eric Bangeman, "MediaSentry Role in RIAA Lawsuit Comes Under Scrutiny," Ars Technica, February 3, 2008.
67. 67. A copy of the judgment is available at Ray Beckerman, "Roland Amurao Files Appeal in Lava v. Amurao," Recording Industry vs. The People Blog, May 8, 2008.
68. 68. Gary McGraw, "Software [In]security: DMCA Rent-a-cops Accept Fake IDs," InformIT, June 12, 2008.
69. 69. Ed Felten, "Study Shows DMCA Takedowns Based on Inconclusive Evidence," Freedom-to-Tinker.com, June 6, 2008; see also Emily Berger, "Laser Printers Found Guilty of Making Available Crimes," EFF Deeplinks Blog, June 5, 2008.
70. 70. Ray Beckerman, "Unlicensed Investigation Complaint Filed Against MediaSentry in North Carolina," Recording Industry vs. The People Blog, June 22, 2008.
71. 71. Andrea Foster, "Student Questions How Recording Industry Identifies File Sharers," The Wired Campus: Education-Technology News from around the Web, February 6, 2008, [Alternate Source].
72. 72. John Timmer, "Michigan law passed requiring MediaSentry to have PI license," Ars Technica, September 5, 2008.
73. 73. Heather Green, "Does She Look Like a Music Pirate?: Inside Tanya Andersens Private War with the Recording Industry," Business Week, April 24, 2008 (discussing Tanya Andersens lawsuits in Oregon); Eric Bangeman, "Florida Defendant Goes After RIAA for Fraud, Conspiracy, and Extortion," Ars Technica, June 4, 2007 (describing UMG v. Del Cid in Florida); Eliot Van Buskirk, "RIAA Drops Claims Against Hurricane Evacuee Grandmother," Wired Blog Network: Listening Post, December 17, 2007 (discussing Rhonda Crains arguments against MediaSentry in Texas); Ray Beckerman, "RIAA Withdraws Lava v. Amurao, Argues It Should Not Be Assessed Attorneys Fees; Defendant Moves to Exclude MediaSentry Evidence for Illegality," Recording Industry vs. The People Blog, January 29, 2008 (reproducing motions and memoranda from lawsuit in New York, challenging legality of MediaSentrys methods).
74. 74. Ray Beckerman, "Oregon Attorney Generals Reply Papers Go on the Offensive, Seek Investigation of RIAA Tactics, in Arista v. Does 1-17," Recording Industry vs. The People Blog, November 29, 2007 (reproducing Oregon Attorney Generals papers calling for discovery into the RIAAs tactics).
75. 75. Eliot Van Buskirk, "A Poison Pen From the RIAA," Wired, Feb. 28, 2007.
76. 76. Thomas Mennecke, "RIAA Announces New Campus Lawsuit Strategy," Slyck, Feb. 28, 2007.
77. 77. Ken Fisher, "Students largely ignore RIAA instant settlement offers," Ars Technica, March, 26, 2007.
78. 78. The RIAA has attempted to use similar tactics in the commercial context, with little success. In February 2007, the RIAA contacted a number of providers offering to broker a deal: if they agreed to keep records regarding the IP addresses of their subscribers, the RIAA would offer their subscribers these same "cut-rate" settlement offers (which the ISP would then forward to their subscribers). So far, however, no ISP seems willing to act as a collection agency on the RIAA's behalf.
79. 79. Susan Butler, "Sixth Wave of RIAA Pre-Litigation Letters Sent to Colleges," The Hollywood Reporter Esq., July 19, 2007, RIAA Press Releases: May 2, 2007; Apr 11, 2007; Mar 21, 2007; Feb 28, 2007; Aug. 16, 2007.
80. 80. Eric Bangeman, "Pass or Fail? RIAAs College Litigation Campaign Turns One," Ars Technica, February 27, 2008.
81. 81. Id.; see also Eric Bangeman, "Court Taking Fresh Look at Doe Subpoenas in College P2P Case," Ars Technica, July 7, 2008.
82. 82. Nick Penzenstadler, "UW warns music sharers," The Badger Herald, Mar. 19, 2007; Tony Reaves, "UMS refuses to hand student info to RIAA", The Maine Campus; Eliot Van Buskirk, "University of Kansas Wont Forward RIAA Settlement Letters," Wired Blog Network: Listening Post, July 30, 2007.
83. 83. Eric Bangeman, "Stanford to Hit P2P Users in the Wallet with Reconnection Fees," Ars Technica, May 16, 2007; see also Stanfords "Student DMCA Complaint Policy & Reconnection Fee".
84. 84. "Universities Need to Resist the RIAA, Not Bully Their Students," EFF Deeplinks Blog, August 29, 2007. Some schools impose other limited sanctions on accused students, such as requiring that accused students watch an anti-piracy DVD published by the RIAA. ESchool News Staff and Wire Service Reports, "AP: Music companies targeting colleges," eSchool News, Feb. 21, 2007.
85. 85. Michael Levenson, "Music Downloaders Win Round in Court," The Boston Globe, April 4, 2008.
86. 86. Eric Bangeman, "Maine Law Students Try to Derail RIAA Lawsuit Express," Ars Technica, April 2, 2008.
87. 87. Hugh DAndrade, "Universities Quietly Fighting Back Against RIAA Tactics," EFF Deeplinks Blog, August 11, 2008.
88. 88. Eric Bangeman, "Oregon Attorney General Criticizes RIAAs Conduct in P2P Cases," Ars Technica, November 29, 2007.
89. 89. "Law Students Provide Counseling to Individuals Targeted by Recording Industry," University of San Francisco Law School News Report, February 21, 2008.
90. 90. Lindsey Millar, "UCAs Pirates in the Clear... For Now," July 10, 2008, Arkansas Times "Rock Candy" blog.
91. 91. William Triplett, "Congress Threatens Colleges: Politicians Try Campus Quiz on Piracy," Variety, May 2, 2007.
92. 92. Common Solutions Working Group, "Infringement Suppression Technologies: Summary Observations".
93. 93. Eugene Spafford and Edward Felten, April 15 Letter.
94. 94. Andre Broido et al, "Is P2P dying or just hiding?", November/December 2004.
95. 95. Id.
96. 96. Jeff Howe, "BigChampagne is Watching You," Wired, October 2003.
97. 97. "P2P Volume Climbs Again in June, User Levels Near 9 Million," Digital Music News Blog, July 8, 2005.
98. 98. Id.; and John Boudreau, "Illegal file sharing showing no letup," San Jose Mercury News, Jul. 3, 2006.
99. 99. Id.
100. 100. "The NPD Group: Legal Music Downloads Were Fastest Growing Digital Music Category in 2006," NPD Group, Mar. 14, 2007.
101. 101. e.g., Jack M. Germain, "Filesharers Can No Longer Hide," TechNewsWorld, February 2, 2005, (quoting BayTSPs CEO stating that "theft of intellectual property is so prevalent on the Internet that I will never put myself out of business").
102. 102. Leigh Philips, "Fast Track network sees decline in users, eDonkey gaining in popularity," Digital Media Europe, Mar. 10, 2005; John Borland, "Kazaa loses P2P crown," CNET News.com, October 11, 2004.
103. 103. Eric Bangeman, "P2P Traffic Shifts Away From Music, Towards Movies," Ars Technica, July 5, 2007.
104. 104. Business Wire, "The NPD Group: Consumers Acquired More Music in 2007, But Spent Less," BNET.com, February 26, 2008.
105. 105. Nathaniel Good, Jens Grossklags, David Thaw, Aaron Perzanowski, Deirdre Mulligan, and Joseph Konstan, "User Choices and Regret: Understanding Users' Decision Process about Consensually acquired Spyware," I/S: A Journal of Law and Policy for the Information Society, Vol. 2, No. 2, pp. 283-344 (2006).
106. 106. "Digital Media Destop Report," Digital Music News Research Group, February, 2007.
107. 107. Lee Rainie, Mary Madden, et al., "The impact of recording industry suits against music file swappers," Pew Internet & American Life Project, January 2004.
108. 108. id. at 3 ("There may be a fraction of internet users who are simply less likely to admit to either downloading music or sharing files due to the negative media portrayal of the activity").
109. 109. "The NPD Group Notes Recent Increase in Music File-Sharing," January 16, 2004. As of March 2005, only 12 percent of P2P users reported purchasing a song from a legal music download service in the previous month. "Progress Report: Digital Music Landscape Shifting, but Slowly," The NPD Group, June 23, 2005.
110. 110. Lee Rainie, Mary Madden, et al., "The state of music downloading and file-sharing online," Pew Internet & American Life Project, April 2004.
111. 111. Id. at 1. By January 2004, 24 million Americans reported sharing files, though the means of file-sharing was unspecified. Lee Rainie, Mary Madden, et al., "Music and video downloading moves beyond P2P," Pew Internet & American Life Project, March 2005.
112. 112. "Record Labels Cut Anti-Piracy Funding," News.com.au, March 12, 2008.
113. 113. Eric Bangeman, "RIAA anti-P2P Campaign a Real Money Pit, According to Testimony," Ars Technica, October 2, 2007.
114. 114. Chloe Lake, "Major Label Pressures Anti-Piracy Groups," News.com.au, January 22, 2008; Eric Bangeman, "Report: EMI Looking to Slash Funding for RIAA, IFPI," Ars Technica, November 28, 2007.
115. 115. eter Lauria, "Infringement! Artists Say They Want Their Music Site Dough," New York Post, February 27, 2008.
116. 116. Charles Duhigg, "Is Copying a Crime? Well...," Aug. 9, 2006.
117. 117. Jeff Leeds, "Plunge in CD Sales Shakes Up Big Labels," New York Times, May 28, 2007, at E1.
118. 118. Mitch Bainwol, "Building a Brighter Future  Making and Selling Great Music".
119. 119. "Recording industry Begins Suing P2P Filesharers Who Illegally Offer Copyrighted Music Online," RIAA Press Release, Sept. 8, 2003.
120. 120. Steve Knopper, "RIAA Will Keep On Suing," Rolling Stone, June 9, 2005.
121. 121. Dave McGuire, "Kids Pirate Music Freely," WashingtonPost.com, May 18, 2004.
122. 122. "Higher Education's Problems with Illegal Student Downloading Have Just Begun," News Release, April 16, 2004.
123. 123. Brad Cook, "TMO Reports - Analyst's High School Survey Sees Continued iPod Domination," The Mac Observer, Oct. 3, 2006, (referring to Piper Jaffrey's survey).
124. 124. A Westlaw search of the nations major newspapers for the round of lawsuits filed on June 29, 2005 returned no results.
125. 125. Lisa Bowman, "Labels Aim Big Guns At Small File Swappers" CNET News.com, June 25, 2003.
126. 126. "RIAA Statement On MGM v. Grokster Supreme Court Ruling," RIAA Press Release, June 27, 2005.
127. 127. Id.
128. 128. Stephanie Condon, "States May Tax iTunes, Other Digital Downloads," CNET News.com, August 12, 2008.
129. 129. Jonathan Skillings, "Apples iTunes Hits 5 Billion Mark," CNET News.com, June 19, 2008.
130. 130. Business Wire, "The NPD Group: Consumers Acquired More Music in 2007, But Spent Less," BNET.com, February 26, 2008.
131. 131. IFPI Digital Music Report 2008.
132. 132. Fred von Lohmann, "Last Major Label Gives Up DRM," EFF Deeplinks Blog, January 4, 2008.
133. 133. Rick Broida, "11 Things We Hate about iTunes," PC World, August 10, 2008.
134. 134. "Leeching," Wikipedia.
135. 135. Direct Connect, WASTE, AllPeers.
136. 136. MUTE, Freenet, I2P Network, JAP.
137. 137. Mary Madden and Lee Rainie, "Pew Internet Project Data Memo, RE: Music and Video Downloading Moves Beyond P2P," Pew Internet & American Life Project, March 2005.
138. 138. Id.
139. 139. Dan Sabbagh, "Average Teenagers iPod Has 800 Illegal Music Tracks," The Times (London), June 16, 2008, at 13.
140. 140. "Sony Unveils First Blu-Ray Disc Drive Burner," Sony Electronics: news & information, Jul 18, 2006.
141. 141. "TDK Showcases 100 GB BD-R Disc," CDRinfo, June 30, 2005.
142. 142. For more information about voluntary collective licensing, see EFFs white paper, "A Better Way Forward: Voluntary Collective Licensing of Music File Sharing"; see generally William Fisher, Promises to Keep, Stanford University Press, 2004.
143. 143. Andrew Orlowski, "80% of Want Legal P2P-Survey," The Register, June 16, 2008.
144. 144. Fred von Lohmann, "Monetizing File-Sharing: Collective Licensing Good, ISP Tax Bad," EFF Deeplinks Blog, March 20, 2008.
145. 145. Ed Felten, "Online Symposium: Voluntary Collective Licensing of Music," Freedom-to-Tinker.com, April 8, 2008; Hugh DAndrade, "NPR Covers RIAA Folly; VCL Plans Entering the Mainstream," EFF Deeplinks Blog, September 22, 2007; Reihan Salam, "The Music Industrys Extortion Scheme," Slate.com, April 25, 2008, (criticized in part by Ed Felten, "Voluntary Collective Licensing and Extortion," Freedom-to-Tinker.com, April 25, 2008).
146. 146. Fred von Lohmann, "Monetizing File-Sharing: Collective Licensing Good, ISP Tax Bad," EFF Deeplinks Blog, March 20, 2008._


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## mlmorris (Jan 27, 2005)

TechGuy said:


> I don't generally read EFF propaganda -- do they actually suggest an alternate solution?


Today, the word "propaganda" carries with it the negative connotation of deliberate distortion. Perhaps all those references to lawsuits against those who, according to the EFF, did not understand what was happening on their computers (if, in fact, that is true) represents deliberate distortion. Yet, the RIAA approach has been, in my judgment, one that has used intimidation and questionable legal means to try and stop copyright infringements.

I do not question the rights of those creating the music (or other works that can be copyrighted under US law) to received fair compensation for their efforts. I *DO* question the means by which RIAA has attempted to prevent the infringements (apparently, unsuccessfully, according to the EFF).

So why do you consider EFF to be a propaganda organization?


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## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

I disagree with most (though certainly not all) of the opinions of the EFF, but they certainly have every right to publish them -- and, I admit, most people seem to agree with them! I think that the RIAA has every right to sue the pants off of anyone stealing music. Doing so has certainly not stopped piracy, but I don't think anyone expects piracy to ever stop.

I just think the RIAA is doing exactly what I'd be doing if someone was stealing from me.


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

TechGuy said:


> I just think the RIAA is doing exactly what I'd be doing if someone was stealing from me.


Maybe in micro mode, but not in macro mode.

I can't see you taking those losses the RIAA claims, year after year, and still remain in the same business. Do you know of any such Company?

If the problem is escalating, so are the legal fees.

Less and less money. More and more expenses. Still try? After how many years? Sounds like bad management to me.

Obviously they don't need or want investors. Or is it really just a drop in the bucket?

There is a poll in another thread about illegal downloading.
I answered maybe in the future.

I already *own* all the music that I want that has been previously released.
If I start to download crap I don't want and would never buy anyway, just to spite them, what cost is it to the RIAA?

Could there be a benefit? Maybe I leave the crap in my library and play tunes using shuffle. Maybe a friend is here listening as well and hears something they like and decides to buy the album(believe it or not, this just happened the other day with a friend for over 20 years. I find it hard to believe that in all that time of close friendship, I only just turned him onto The Marshall Tucker Band. Unbelievable). Would they have bought the album otherwise? Not likely as they probably still wouldn't know it existed.

Myself and all my friends prefer to own original. Regardless of how first copy was obtained(thinking of days gone by when we first "taped" a buddies album).


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Thieves always try to justify stealing. That issue will never change. Ask the bank robber why he robs banks.


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## CTPhil (Jan 5, 2006)

AcaCandy said:


> Ask the bank robber why he robs banks.


Because that's where the money is? Badda Boom.

Apologies to Richard Pryor.


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