# Virus at College



## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

Hello all----

For her graduation I got my daughter a Mac Powerbook and she has been happy with it until yesterday---She got zonked by a virus. I was in shock because I thought Apples were immune to viruses---As best I can determine, she took the Powerbook down to the college help desk and they killed the virus---I asked her if she had opened any email from someone she didn't know and she hadn't. She also told me that the virus had infected other Macs throughout the campus---Does any body have any idea what could have caused this. The college requires anti-virus software (even for Macs) before hooking into the network---Any guesses of what might have happened?


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> I asked her if she had opened any email from someone she didn't know and she hadn't.


Assuming it actually _was_ a virus, it doesn't have to come from somebody she doesn't know. Viruses propagate without the witting participation of the end user. But I doubt seriously it was such a thing.

If she uses iChat (an instant messaging program that is shipped with the OS) there is a Trojan (not a _virus_, per se) that is a file called "latestpics.tgz" that has to be run to be activated. This malicious file, which poses as a set of pictures, is a compressed Unix shell application. The user is prompted for an admin password (if she's the only user setup in the system her password is all that is required) to launch the code. Users who do this will find their machines infected.

If she ever double-clicks on something that asks her for her password tell her she'd better be damned sure she knows what it is and who it came from. Otherwise she should "beware of Greeks bearing gifts."



linskyjack said:


> She also told me that the virus had infected other Macs throughout the campus---Does any body have any idea what could have caused this.


If, indeed, it is a virus, or the aforementioned Trojan, they tend to spread through what would be otherwise considered innocuous situations. Especially among college students who can't seem to pry themselves away from IMs for longer than, wait... I've got an IM I have to answer... ()



linskyjack said:


> The college requires anti-virus software (even for Macs) before hooking into the network


Right. And they monitor this _how_ (I'm picturing brutish guards posted next to every ethernet port on campus)? And, even so, how does this anti-virus software deter Trojans? They are, as mentioned, seemingly innocuous files that _require the end user_ to do their dirty work, or at least to get it started.



linskyjack said:


> Any guesses of what might have happened?


If, indeed, it was a virus it probably spread, well, like a virus. If it was the aforementioned Trojan, well, I'm sorry to say it, but your daughter is to blame. She double-clicked when she should have deleted.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I'm sure *macguru* will be along to tell you there isn't any such thing as a Mac virus, and it's all your imagination.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Posting to follow along, I want to see this  

Sorry LJ, no offense, I've been waiting for this for years, too good to miss


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## ACTU (Jun 29, 2005)

College 's have the worst virus's ever. Think of there severs as dirty bath water. I get a lot of computer through my shop that belong to students and there the worst.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

John and Candy--ME TOO! Actually the chat thing makes sense---- I think she uses AOL on her machine. The funny thing is she was brought up using PC's but isn't savy technically so I figured that if she isn't living at home anymore, it would probably be a good thing to get a MAC! Hey, I swallowed the Kool -Aid as dispensed by one of the great hucksters of all time--Steve Jobs. Now don't come down on me Mac people---after all, its just a computer. Admit that it can get trojans, viruses etc--that is the first step to recovery!


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> Admit that it can get trojans, viruses etc--that is the first step to recovery!


I don't know anyone who ever said otherwise. It's just that the Mac OS has had such a small footprint in the market that it wasn't worth programmers' time to code malware for the OS. That is changing, in large part due to the work of the person you deem a "huckster." Such is the nature of success in the world of computing. The more visible and widely-used an OS is the bigger a target it becomes.

It is worth noting again that Trojans require the _affirmative action_ of the user in order to do any harm, not simply double-clicking the file, which is bad enough, but also _blithely_ going along with its request for an administrator's password. Rather than misplace your ire in the person of Mr. Jobs, you should _really_ be vexed by the actions of your daughter, assuming it _is_ a Trojan that was the culprit (which is most likely).

It is also worth noting that you come here seeking help, and then you take the opportunity to make disparaging remarks. That doesn't seem a prudent tack.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

I understand that but answer me this---what percentage of Mac users (until recently) have had virus protection on their computer---I doubt the number is very high because most people just believe that Macs don't get viruses (for whatever reason.) Anyway you put it, Steve Jobs is a con artist---Then again, so is Bill Gates----Whats the big deal.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

That is statistical data to which I have no access, and, in the end has no bearing on the matter at hand. It makes little difference what "most people" believe, especially if reality differs. Most people once believed the world was flat. Most people once believed that the Earth was the center of the Solar System and the Universe. Holding a belief simply doesn't make it _true_.

Blaming Steve Jobs for your daughter's problem is like blaming William Clay Ford, Jr. for you having driven over broken glass and getting a flat on your Taurus as a result. I doubt very seriously you can find a quote from Steve Jobs saying that a Mac is virus- and/or Trojan-proof.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

I never blamed Steve Jobs for my daughters problem--and your astronomy analogy is a bit over blown. Here are the facts (even though you dont have the statistics handy). 

The Mac is sold as a machine that is immune from the viruses, malware, trojans etc that infect PC's----That is one of the chief selling points. The vast majority of Mac users dont use virus software. Its that simple and has nothing to do with Steve Jobs and/or any other person.


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## ACTU (Jun 29, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> I never blamed Steve Jobs for my daughters problem--and your astronomy analogy is a bit over blown. Here are the facts (even though you dont have the statistics handy).
> 
> The Mac is sold as a machine that is immune from the viruses, malware, trojans etc that infect PC's----That is one of the chief selling points. The vast majority of Mac users dont use virus software. Its that simple and has nothing to do with Steve Jobs and/or any other person.


I agree with you there. Just some hacker that was able to infect the Mac. So now it boils down to Mac's can get infected.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> I never blamed Steve Jobs for my daughters problem--and your astronomy analogy is a bit over blown. Here are the facts (even though you dont have the statistics handy).
> 
> The Mac is sold as a machine that is immune from the viruses, malware, trojans etc that infect PC's----That is one of the chief selling points.


That might have been your belief, but it doesn't make it true (which is the point I was trying to make about the Earth being flat, et al). I've never heard _anybody_ say such a thing, and _had_ I heard anybody say such a thing I would laugh in his face. Any computer on a network is susceptible to attack in any number of ways. Even my _father_ understands that, and he's about as computer un-savvy as anyone I've ever met.

I highly doubt that one of the Mac's "chief selling points" is this preposterous notion that it's "immune from viruses, malware, trojans, etc. that infect PCs." How could something patently untrue be a "chief selling point"? No, I'd say ease of use, beauty of design and prior use of a Mac are the chief selling points. It might get mentioned by a salesman that there are _fewer_ such things that attack, but it would be a strange thing indeed for such a notion to be a "chief selling point". In fact, a warranty such as yours (which claims total immunity) could open the manufacturer and the dealer to product liability, so such a representation would not be wise.



linskyjack said:


> The vast majority of Mac users dont use virus software.


And a lot of people having sex don't use contraceptives. So what? That doesn't mean that one of them isn't going to get pregnant, get an STD, etc. If a vast majority of people jumped off a building would you? If I told you I had a bridge I wanted to sell you in New York would you be interested in buying? Just because X number of people are taking a risk (no matter how slight) doesn't mean that _you_ should.



linskyjack said:


> Its that simple and has nothing to do with Steve Jobs and/or any other person.


Then why did _you_ bring him up in the first place? I don't like the guy's politics by any means (he's to the left of Chairman Mao, I'm to the right of Ronald Reagan), but he's doing some damned impressive things at Apple, and not by sleight of hand, either.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

VegasACF said:


> I don't know anyone who ever said otherwise.


Every Mac person I've ever spoken with has always crowed about their lack of viruses  To the point where you just want to punch them in the face to shut them up. I'm having a blast, I can't wait to hear from some of my Mac friends who think they are 'safe.'


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

AcaCandy said:


> Every Mac person I've ever spoken with has always crowed about their lack of viruses  To the point where you just want to punch them in the face to shut them up. I'm having a blast, I can't wait to hear from some of my Mac friends who think they are 'safe.'


Mmmkay... First off, it's a _Trojan_, not a virus. It requires the participation of the user. That makes it a DFO problem.

Second, the above poster claims this "immunity to viruses" (that doesn't exist) is "one of its chief selling points." As I mentioned, making such a claim would open the manufacturer and the dealer up to lawsuit after lawsuit because of strict product liability, so such a claim would _never_ be made by them. Perhaps he, like you, has friends that (ignorantly) claim their Macs are "immune", but his (and your, and their) belief of that doesn't make it true. It only makes the believers sheep following a misguided herd.

Ignorance of the facts doesn't make facts less true. It only makes one ignorant. Fortunately, ignorance has a cure.

C'est la vie.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I only believed it was a matter of time 

The time has obviously arrived


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

As did I. Now, perhaps, the Windows users of the world can finally put to bed the notion that "Apple is doomed" or that "Apple is going bankrupt." They've been echoing that chorus for over 20 years now. 

The fact that someone is creating malware for the Mac is proof enough that it's a viable and successful platform.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I took my first computer class on a Mac, I think it was called Lisa?

I never thought that Apple was doomed, quite the opposite. They shoved their computer systems down school's throats so that they 'educated' their potential customers 

Smart marketing, in my opinion......


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

The Lisa was a separate project/product with a different OS. They were competing projects and there was no love lost between the teams that worked on them, from what I understand.

Here is some Lisa stuff.

And some more.

And a bit more.

Next time I see Woz I'll ask him for some "inside" info about it, if you'd like.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Hmmm, I don't think it looked like that, and I think it was prior to 83, so I could be wrong about the model.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Then if must have not been either a Mac or a Lisa. The first Mac to ship was the 128k Macintosh, which was released January 24, 1984. 

It must have been an Apple ][ of some sort.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Apples, Oranges, all I know it was some kind of fruit


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

VegasACF said:


> That might have been your belief, but it doesn't make it true (which is the point I was trying to make about the Earth being flat, et al). I've never heard _anybody_ say such a thing, and _had_ I heard anybody say such a thing I would laugh in his face. Any computer on a network is susceptible to attack in any number of ways. Even my _father_ understands that, and he's about as computer un-savvy as anyone I've ever met.
> 
> I highly doubt that one of the Mac's "chief selling points" is this preposterous notion that it's "immune from viruses, malware, trojans, etc. that infect PCs." How could something patently untrue be a "chief selling point"? No, I'd say ease of use, beauty of design and prior use of a Mac are the chief selling points. It might get mentioned by a salesman that there are _fewer_ such things that attack, but it would be a strange thing indeed for such a notion to be a "chief selling point". In fact, a warranty such as yours (which claims total immunity) could open the manufacturer and the dealer to product liability, so such a representation would not be wise.
> 
> ...


Oh give me a break--at least you can be honest--I repeat--(and of course none of the fanboys wants to answer), the Mac is sold as a safe alternative to a PC---that most Mac users dont use anti-virus software of any kind. Just go over to the Apple forums and read how many times a new user has asked what anti-virus software they should put on their machine---the inevitable answer is NONE---Macs don't get viruses or spyware, or malware or anything else. Is your point that Mac users are unsophisticated---if so, maybe you do have a point.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> Oh give me a break


No break necessary.



linskyjack said:


> --at least you can be honest--


You first. For example, in your original post you said:



linskyjack said:


> She also told me that the virus had infected other Macs throughout the campus---Does any body have any idea what could have caused this.


Followed immediately by:



linskyjack said:


> The college requires anti-virus software (even for Macs) before hooking into the network---Any guesses of what might have happened?


How could the first be true if the second is true? Which are we to believe? That the "Macs throughout the campus" have been infiltrated by this vile lump of ones and zeros or that "[t]he college requires anti-virus software (even for Macs) before hooking into the network"? It certainly can't be both. And, why on Earth, if a Mac's "chief selling point" is its "immunity" to viruses, would this college require antivirus software on a Mac? Doesn't make much sense, does it?



linskyjack said:


> I repeat--(and of course none of the fanboys wants to answer), the Mac is sold as a safe alternative to a PC---


No, the Mac is sold as a computer system that happens to be an alternative to Windows. Nothing more, nothing less. Any other belief that you had is yours and yours alone. Your unwillingness to face this fact is remarkably similar to your unwillingness to blame your daughter for her actions.



linskyjack said:


> that most Mac users dont use anti-virus software of any kind.


And what does this prove? Are you just another pathetic sheep following a herd?



linskyjack said:


> Just go over to the Apple forums and read how many times a new user has asked what anti-virus software they should put on their machine---the inevitable answer is NONE---Macs don't get viruses or spyware, or malware or anything else.


I suggest you go back and reread what you claim to have read. There are those of us who have continually cautioned that, while the risk is comparatively small to that of the Windows world, the risk is there. For a good primer on the subject start with this thread.



linskyjack said:


> Is your point that Mac users are unsophisticated---if so, maybe you do have a point.


No, my point was that you came in asking for help and then you backhanded those who would be able to give it. And you continue to do so.

Best of luck with your future problems.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Alright guys, calm down......


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

I'm perfectly calm.


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## [email protected] (Nov 11, 2005)

no cpmputer is immune to viruses. this is great.


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## [email protected] (Nov 11, 2005)

VegasACF said:


> The fact that someone is creating malware for the Mac is proof enough that it's a viable and successful platform.


Do you even read what you write? Explain this then. Because somebody writes malware for your system makes it successful. Come on you're sounding really stupid here.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Do you even read what you write? Explain this then. Because somebody writes malware for your system makes it successful. Come on you're sounding really stupid here.


If you're going to paraphrase somebody the least you could do is be accurate about it. What you say above and what I said...



me said:


> The fact that someone is creating malware for the Mac is proof enough that it's a viable and successful platform


...are two different things. You're putting the cart before the horse. But don't worry. I won't resort to calling _you_ stupid for misunderstanding such a simple thing.

You seem to think I said that somebody creating malware for a system is what made the system a success. This is not the case, as evidenced above, nonetheless, I'll explain it: What I actually _said_ was that somebody creating malware for the Mac OS is _proof_ that is a viable and successful platform. The success came and _then_ the malware came. If the Mac OS were not successful nobody would waste time coding malware for it.

Clearer for you?


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I think Linsky's question has been answered, so I'm going to close this thread before it turns into another useless debate. If you want to debate pc vs. mac, start a new thread in Civilized Debate


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