# Solved: There is something I just don't understand about Wi-Fi



## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

I just bought my very first smartphone (Samsung Galaxy S4) and there are many concepts I do not understand. But I just read somewhere that when I leave my home, I can still access the net even though I may be many miles from the nearest Wi-Fi.

I can't understand this. A friend has warned me many times to shut off Wi-Fi when I'm not using it because people who are in my apt building or even just passing by can access my Wi-Fi services and there are many dangers associated with that. She told me that before she knew what was happening, over the space of a few days, she ran up a bill of more than a hundred dollars because what she was doing was also downloading a massive amount of data and she had to turn off the access to several data networks in order to prevent getting really huge bills.

My limited understanding is that if I want to use my phone to download large amounts of data while I am in my home, I must turn on Wi-Fi so that my phone can access my wireless router which is connected to my modem which is connected to my ISP.

By the way, most people don't think of the most common activities as "downloading large amounts of data". They just think of it as using several diff good apps that have to access the net to be able to do neat stuff. But they are actually doing all that neat stuff by downloading large amounts of data from the net to they smart phone. It took me some time to understand that one.

So, if there is no Wi-Fi, how is my phone ever able to use the services of my ISP to download data?

I'm very confused on this point.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

The phone uses your wireless provider's network when you're not on wifi.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

But I am far, far away from my modem which is connected to my ISP.

How can my phone access my ISP when I am many miles away from ...

Oh wait! You mean my ISP has a wireless network and my phone can access that network thru one of its cell towers?

Or something like that?

If you reply but I don't answer, it's because I have to go out now. Oh, wait a sec. ...

Heh heh. No good. I still haven't learned to use the browser in my cell phone.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

the phone connects in two ways to a network

1) Is a cellular phone network - which is available everywhere and provided by your cellular phone company sim card
Not sure which country you are in - UK would be O2, Vodaphone , EE 
This method of connection also uses data from your celullar phone provider (which can be very expensive), which you usually have to pay for and would have a *Call plan* for using the phone for calls and a *Data plan* for using the phone on the internet , and there will be limits to how much you can use before you are charged more money each month.

2) The phone can also connect to a wireless network used in most homes for internet access - like your router and ISP 
This only works while you in the home (probably a range of 100ft)
But by connecting to your router , when at home , the phone will not be using your expensive cellular data allowance and will use your router/ISP broadband allowance

When you out and about, you can connect to different wireless network services - like cafes, shops , hotels and use that wifi which maybe free to use and again saves your cellular data usage


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> But I just read somewhere that when I leave my home, I can still access the net even though I may be many miles from the nearest Wi-Fi.


Wayne already answered this in detail, but perhaps another summary won't hurt. If the phone cannot connect to Wi-Fi, because no network is available or because you have turned that function off on the phone, it uses your cellular data--part of your 2 GB per month allowance you mentioned in another thread.



> A friend has warned me many times to shut off Wi-Fi when I'm not using it because people who are in my apt building or even just passing by can access my Wi-Fi services and there are many dangers associated with that.


That is true if your Wi-Fi is unsecured; and it makes no sense to leave it unsecured. Use WPA2 or WPA encryption with a strong passphrase and you will be about as safe as a person can be when the internet is involved.


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## strollin (Jan 4, 2015)

In addition to what's already been said, you can turn off your phone's data access without effecting your ability to make or receive phone calls or texts. Keeping you phone's data access turned off when you don't need it will help prevent running up bills because you exceeded your data allotment. As a side benefit, your phone's battery will not get discharged as quickly.

http://deviceguides.vodafone.ie/web...ttings/data-usage/turn-mobile-data-on-or-off/


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Wow! My head is spinning.

So much I don't understand. But I only read your posts once and I will soon read them again.

Thank you all so very much for your help. I want to make sure I do secure my Wi-Fi right away.

I will let you know how things are going and thanks very much to all.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

> So much I don't understand. But I only read your posts once and I will soon read them again.


Please post any further questions here for anything you still dont understand


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

Its not really about how far you are from the router - although that is a factor - its more about the quality of the signal and signal strength in the location.

I could be 6ft from a router BUT behind an outside wall with a big fireplace (for example an extension) and get no signal 
I have a client who is only 12ft away - but does have the above situation, and does not get a good signal in her kitchen 
but its perfect in the rest of the house.

Therefore its more about 
1) the obstructions that maybe in the way - thick walls, metal like water tanks , and generally building construction materials 
2) the router itself

I have a small house - but because of the construction (1904) and the position of the router , i do not get any signal at the back of the house 9m from the router 
and so I have another router - repeating the wireless signal in between

So how far away are you 
Whats in between the router and youself 
if you goto next to the router in clear air, about 6ft away - it should work well


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

etaf said:


> Please post any further questions here for anything you still dont understand


I've been feeling embarassed about asking about this. I know it must be terribly important. But I just don't have a clue.

I posted that a friend told me: "A friend has warned me many times to shut off Wi-Fi when I'm not using it because people who are in my apt building or even just passing by can access my Wi-Fi services and there are many dangers associated with that."

Then you posted: "That is true if your Wi-Fi is unsecured; and it makes no sense to leave it unsecured. Use WPA2 or WPA encryption with a strong passphrase and you will be about as safe as a person can be when the internet is involved."

I don't understand what it means to leave my Wi-Fi unsecured and I also don't know what WPA2 or WPA encryption is or how to use it.

I do know what a strong passphrase means. But I looked and can't see anywhere where or how I can use encryption. What is it that I need to encrypt and how do I go about doing that?

I feel embarassed because I have worked as a professional software engineer for many, many years. But all that work was on mainframes and that all seems completely irrelevant to what's happening today. None of it helps me at all with understanding my smartphone.

I have so many passwords for so many accounts. I really don't know how people handle it.

I have a password for my router. I also have a Security Key. One for my data. One for each email account. One for my Samsung acct (which I don't have yet). One for each of my bank accts. One for my FIDO acct. And one for every other acct under the sun. Every day it seems like I need to create a new acct and password. It is so easy to lose one or forget which is which. And I feel like I've only scratched the surface. I have tons more passwords and it's almost impossible to remember them all - especially since people are now demanding strong passphrases. The days of using my birthday as a pw are long, long gone.

My head is just swimming. How do you do ever manage to handle this?


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Strollin,

Thank you for posting that link. I been aware for a while now there is a difference between using Wi-Fi and mobile data. But for the life of me, I can't find anywhere that it's explained in "easy to understand" language. I will review your link tonight and give you some feed back tomorrow.

Well the info in your link was simple enough. But where can I go for an explanation of the difference between mobile data and Wi-Fi? I've tried reading the Help screens in my phone and they make it sound like the phone tries to access data by using Wi-Fi first and if it can't find it that way or if it can't access Wi-Fi, then it uses Mobile Data.

There is one part of my phone's system that lets me look at my Data Usage so far. Talk about confusing. Let me tell you what it says:

When I first got this phone, I looked at Data Usage and it showed a nice Histogram with vertical bars where each bar represented the data usage for a single day.

(By the way, I should say that I have a 2G limit per month and after keeping Wi-Fi turned off most all the time, my usage is extremely tiny - something like 10 MB per day. At that rate, I would only be using 300MB per month and my limit is 2,000 MB per month. But let me tell you what this screen says now. I was experimenting with this screen and somehow I turned something off and it no longer shows a histogram with individual usage per day.

Instead it just shows a flat horizontal line and a large heading saying "Mobile Data" with a check mark on the top. I don't expect you to explain what is going on here. But is there any way you can tell me where I can find an explanation? I mean there should be an explanation in the phone's Help screens or the User Guide or Handbook. Shouldn't there?


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Strollin,

Let me take a guess to try and save you some typing?

I'd guess that Wi-Fi means the stream of data that comes through my modem (that I use for my Desktop PC) and my wireless router that my smartphone accesses through Wi-Fi.

I'd guess that Mobile Data is the data stream that my phone accesses from the closest cell tower(s).

Is that close to being accurate?

If so, is the reason Mobile Data significantly more expensive because I'm already paying my ISP for access to the net through my modem and router. But when I access the net via a cell tower, I'm competing with many other people and the people who own the network charge for the usage by charging everyone who accesses the network in that way.

Do I have the basic idea correct?


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

Yes that is roughly it. There is also that the companies have to TRANSMIT everyones whereas they only need to send yours down a line.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Re your post # 13: YES, you got it. 

There may be a data cap with your home ISP, but if so it is relatively huge unless you stream a couple movies every day. For example, my Medicom cable service has a 250 GB limit per month.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Every router is a little different, but the encryption setting will be somewhere in the wireless section. On my current Belkin router it is in the Wireless section, Security subsection, and is called "Security Mode." See attached.

*EDIT*: This is in response to your post # 11. Unsecured means that the Security Mode (or whatever it is called on your router) would be 'None' or 'Off" or similar.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

The following thread is titled:Request for general advice regarding smartphone

http://forums.techguy.org/android-p...uest-general-advice-regarding-smartphone.html

It got partly sidetracked into a discussion of Wi-Fi vs Mobile Data and I'd like to clarify one point if I may.

I said that I pay $75 monthly to an ISP for unlimited Internet access for my Desktop PC and I set up a router so that my smart phone can access Wi-Fi and everything it does through WiFi will go through my router and my modem and through this ISP so the cost to me is zero.

But someone in that thread said that I should always keep Wi-Fi turned on. I think the reason was because it costs me zero dollars. But I have been shocked to see that some apps (I don't know which ones) have been busy in the background because I have used up 2GB of Data Transfer using Wi-Fi in 21 days. But only 50 MB using Mobile Data.

Leaving Wi-Fi turned on all the time can contribute to the drain on my battery. I am kind of unhappy at the speed my phone's battery will go from 100% down to 40%. That usually happens in about 8 hours.

I have studied many things I can do that will lessen the rate the battery drains. Mostly it's about keeping the screen turned off as much as possible. But how much does Wi-Fi contribute to the drain on my battery if it downloads 2GB of data over 21 days?


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

WIFI drains your battery just looking for a source to connect to.
Turn it off until you want to use it, but DO use it for data rather than the phone side.
Usually you specifically connect to WIFI since it _should_ be protected with a key. WIFI is very local in that the range is measured in feet.
Be aware that it uses the phone tower information to tell where you are.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

iOS will now show battery usage by percentage by App for the last 24 hours or last 7 days. If Android has similar you probably want to take a look at that.

Depending on your settings if you have Wi-Fi turned off you may download 2 GB of Mobile Data in the next 21 days. If you downloaded a movie or some shorter videos then 2 GB is "nothing" but if that 2 GB is mostly background activities you probably want to investigate and determine what Apps are responsible for big chunks of that.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm afraid I did a foolish thing. At least I think it was foolish. I saw an article written on this VisiHow Web site:

http://visihow.com/Change_the_Home_Screen_Mode_on_Samsung_Galaxy_S4

It explains hot to do a "Hard Reset". It also says this:

"Do not be afraid to mess up with your phone. Easy mode should be understandable to you even if you are a first-time Android user."

Unfortunately, when it powered up, I could not access my Wireless router so I could not use Wi-Fi from my home (from my router and modem). I have a record of the Network Name and Security ID that were used originally to create my Wi-Fi and enable my phone to access that Wi-Fi. But I can't figure out how to add that Network Name to the list and get it to work again.

I can add the name to the list and also enter the Sercurity ID (or password). But my phone cannot find that Network ID. Any chance that anyone here can help me?

I feel so foolish for having gotten myself into this predicament. And this is not the only problem I'm having because I tried to do a Hard Reset. By the way, I know I should not have tried that before asking if it was OK to do that.

When I have more time, I will tell you a real horror story associated with doing that. But in the meantime, I want to warn everyone here ... "DO NOT do this Hard Reset unless you know what you are doing. There are some real serious problems associated with doing this and I will explain what I mean by that shortly.

Sigh. Cry & Weep. Oh. I should explain why I tried this. I wanted to see if the phone would revert to the previous version of the OS. But that was foolish because I could have just asked first and then I would have found out that it would not revert. I lost almost all my data. But the only thing I did not lose was this new version of the OS. I'm so sorry to have wasted all your time.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

EDIT

just saw this is andriod forum

so ignore 

a hard reset on an ipad or iphone should be OK - I do that quite a lot for people who have issues 

I assume you mean holding the power button and the home button 
apple logo appears and the phone is reset

is that what you mean ?


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

etaf said:


> EDIT
> 
> just saw this is andriod forum
> 
> ...


Not exactly. I did it on my Samsung Galaxy S4. The procedure begins by holding all 3 buttons down at the same time. The procedure is listed in the link I posted above. It's fairly lengthy. It begins after this part: "First, try a Hard Reset to your S4".

I will list the entire procedure at the bottom of this post.

But, can you answer me one thing about this please? At one step is says to press and hold the Volume Up button but then at another step it says to press and hold the Volume Down button.

That seemed so strange to me. Is that really what they meant? Would it not work if you just pressed the Volume button in the middle of the button?

P.Sl I should say the worst part of this experience was trying to establish the Samsung acct once again.

When the phone powered up, it gave me the option of installing a Samsung acct or not. I chose to install it and then it wanted to know my original password. I couldn't figure out if it wanted the PW to my email acct or the PW that the CSR used to initiate the acct. I got the phone already working. The SS acct was created before I received the phone and I had no idea what PW they used.

But that was not the worst part. They offered a link that asked "Forgot your Password? Tap here:"

So I did that and part of the procedure was to ensure I was not a machine. It showed me two words or sets of letters and asked me to enter what I saw. I understand that was some CapShaw (sorry I forget the correct name). But now for the worst part:

I must have tried to enter the correct letters at least 20 times and failed each time because the letters were so very difficult to read. Or maybe it's because I am 65 years old and my eyes are getting weaker.

But I could not get the correct letters in there and it was a terrible horrible enormously frustrating experience. I was sweating bullets and I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I just don't know how anyone could handle that experience.

In the end, I had to bypass the creation of the Samsung Acct and I am left with the worry that I cannot do certain things now. When I bypassed the creation of that Samsung Acct, it showed me a very stern warning, saying something like this: "If you don't create this SS acct, you will not be able to access many things and you won't be able to do many things and yada, yada yada.

But there was no way I could write down the contents of that message. It was just too long. I couldn't swipe it or copy it or anything.

It was enough to make me want to cry. Oh my gosh! What a terrible experience! One of the very worst experiences I have ever had sitting at my desktop PC. In the end, I still don't know what to do about this. Can you hear me crying?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the entire procedure for a Hard Reset for the Samsung Galaxy S4:

First, try a Hard Reset to your S4. 

Turn off your Galaxy S4.
 Press the Volume up, Home, and Power keys together, and hold them all down until the S4 comes on.
 Once on, the Android icon will pop up. Then, let go of all the buttons.
Press the Volume down key, and tap the Wipe Data/Factory Reset.
Press the Power button.
Select "Yes - Delete all data."
Press the Power button once again. It will now process the Hard Reset.
 Your Galaxy S4 should be cleared so that you can re-boot with your Power button, and change your Home screen mode following the "Change Home Screen" steps above.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Try logging into your Samsung account on your PC, as it may be easier to reset the password there: www.samsung.com

When you scan for (Wi-Fi) networks is yours detected? It should be. Then when you try to connect you should be prompted for the encryption key (password, or whatever they choose to call it).


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

TerryNet said:


> Try logging into your Samsung account on your PC, as it may be easier to reset the password there: www.samsung.com
> 
> When you scan for (Wi-Fi) networks is yours detected? It should be. Then when you try to connect you should be prompted for the encryption key (password, or whatever they choose to call it).


That is a good idea! Good thinking Terry!

I'll let you know.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

TerryNet said:


> Try logging into your Samsung account on your PC, as it may be easier to reset the password there: www.samsung.com
> 
> When you scan for (Wi-Fi) networks is yours detected? It should be. Then when you try to connect you should be prompted for the encryption key (password, or whatever they choose to call it).


I'm not sure, I added it to the list and when I Scanned it remained on the list. But it said "device out of range" and no matter what I tried, that is always what it said.


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