# Dell Warning for Home Gaming



## Compiler

Recently, Dell has finally stopped making those rather ugly black/gray systems that had difficult to reach USB ports and no AUDIO out on the front. The new systems look rather sharp for current systems (2007)... and with the new systems, FINALLY - they have an upgradeable graphics slot (PCIe x16) - when in the past, only PCI slots where included and we'd see posts "I need to upgrade the video card on my Dell" and we tell them they can't get anything worthwhile. AGP is outdated but can play games. PCIe x16 slot is required for todays systems.

Well - when it comes to the insides, Dell really doesn't have any better quality or support over HPAQ (HP/Compaq) which is now the #1 PC seller. You spend quite a bit of money for about the same level of limitations when you MIGHT AS WELL have gone to CompUSA / Best Buy / Frys or even Wal-Mart for a better deal off the shelf, rather than wait about 2-3 weeks!

The basis for this info review are 3 base systems, none of the Slim-line systems.

Before I forget - the shocking thing is that when you go through the BUILD processes, there is a section where they sell GAMES... which will run like garbage on many of these computers!

Our contenders are:
Dell Dimension E520 = Low end~basic Intel P4/P-D/C2D systems. All are 533mhz RAM.
Dell Dimension E521 = Low end~basic AMD64 & x2 DC systems. All are 533mhz RAM.
Dell XPS 410 = Mid Range Core2Duo systems. All use 667mhz RAM.
Dell XPS 710 = High end Core2Duo. Cool cases, dual Video card support, 667mhz RAM?

The ONLY Dells with performance memory are the business machines.

$1285 = Dell OptiPlex with 2GB DDR800 / DVI / AMD64 x2 4600
$1685 = Above with Intel Core2Dup 6400 with exact specs not a great deal.

The issues:

The E520/521 are BTX mini-towers (4 expansion slots) which have limited space due to design for heat from 4-6Ghz P4s which never made it to market. The cooling in the small space makes it about impossible to install any high-end gaming card. The 7600GT should fit as long as its a single-slot design (no fancy cooling) but the 305watt PSU (Power Supply Unit) is in the edge of being a problem. An aftermarket 350~400watt PSU will do the job. There is NO ROOM for todays GeForce 8800 or ATI 1900XT cards to fit. So a standard 350watt PSU will do.

Removal of the cooling hood will effect the BTX cooling design. Also, there is not a mount to attach a rear-cooling fan  in case the front fan and hood were removed. The Hard drives at the bottom (x2 max) do not get great cooling since there is NO REAR fan to pull air across the drives.

None of these systems can be bought with high-performance RAM such as 667/800 and 
1066Mhz is supported by many of these CPUS. The end user gets 533mhz DDR2.

With custom Dell motherboards, CPUs may NOT be upgradeable (there could be a BIOS CPU lock). For basic home or business, these PCs will work fine. But future upgrades are limited. If you think you or your kids may want to play games WELL on a PC, this computer WILL NOT DO.
All comparisons below DO NOT include a monitor, unless noted otherwise.

Typical cost of a good E52x system as follows:
Bottom end E520 = P4 @ 3.0ghz / 1GB DDR2 / DVD RW drive / 250GB HD / onboard Video
Price = $685 This is expensive. A 512mb / 160GB HD version = $610.
Wall mart sells a faster Compaq with AMD64-3500 (512mb/160HD) + 17 LCD for $550 or about $400~425 without the monitor. Thats about a $200 savings!

Note 1: Compaq has junky keyboard, replace with HP Multimedia keyboard for $25.
Note 2: Hpaq (HP or Compaq) includes a 350watt PSU and has space for larger video cards and an optional rear cooling fan if one is not already attached.

$550 = The next HP PC model up is a dual core x2 3800 with 1GB RAM (533mhz) & faster onboard video.
$725 = Dell e521 with dual core Pentium D 805 (2.6Ghz) with 1GB RAM. Again, About $200 more expensive and less upgradeable and easily slower than the HP.

More apples to apples:

$615 = HP x2 4200 / 1GB (filled slots) / with Firewire & card reader
$730 = Dell e521 with exact features above. (Still with no space and smaller PSU)

Adding a GeForce 7600 card would require a PSU upgrade ($50~70) for the Dell, but not SOLD by Dell  youll install it yourself or pay someone else.

Lets go up a notch to a more expandable Dell the XPS 410.
The case is a little bit bigger, but it allows for a larger video card such as the 7900 series but it is unknown if it can handle a dual-slot sucking ATI 1900XTX or 8800. The cooling hood over the CPU is very close. Also, no optional rear cooling fan. The 375watt PSU will not handle anything more than a 7900gs which is the top card Dell offers for this system.

$1550 = XPS 410 : C2D 6300 / 2GB 667mhz / 320GB HD / TV Tuner/remote & card reader
$1525 = HP 7690 : C2D 6300 / 2GB 667mhz / 400GB HD / TV Tuner/remote & card reader (online)

$ 880 = HP 7650: C2D 6300 / 2GB 533mhz / 320GB HD / TV Tuner/remote & card reader
(Add a 7900gs from a store for $200) = $1080 total. $400+ cheaper off SHELF!!

So even from HP, buying online cost MORE than buying from a store! (Prices are online and Best buy or CompUSA as of Jan 25 2007)

Keep in mind, only the higher end Core2Duos such as the 6600. And 6400 is 5~10% faster than an AMD x2 4600. The HP with the AMD64 4600 has same stats as the $880 HP but $620.

And with most brand name systems, there is no over clocking or tweaking.
Any of these $800~1500 systems will need a new 500watt PSU to handle a GF8800 card.

Now lets hit Dells TOP in gamer system. It looks HOT but could be hotter under the hood.
The XP 710 supports dual video cards, uses a chipset board that does NOT support x2 8800s or any other Nvidia video card. Comes with a 750watt PSU (unknown if Active PFC) and is the only possible gaming system Dell offers. At this point, HP top end system is $1675 with a Core2 6600 / 4GB RAM and a GF7600GT card  because they dont offer to install a bigger PSU than 350watts. At these prices, the gamers build their own PCs here is why:

The XPS chassis offers 4 Optical drive bays and 4 HD drive bays (Typical $75~200 cases) and includes a Nvidia / intel 590 sli hybrid motherboard. Well go fairly top end with the following:

Intel Core2Duo X6800 / 4GB RAM 667mhz / 500GB RAID 1 / 2x DVD 16x16 burners / GeForce 8800GTX Video card 768mb RAM . Windows XP Pro with upgrade to VISTA.
No Audio card option was selectable. No added software included.

$4,240 = Above price for a gaming PC powerhouse.
$3,120 = Hand Built system for gaming. Take about 3~5 hrs to build and prep OS.

Parts = C2D x6800 / 4GB RAM 800Mhz / 500GB RAID 1 / 2x DVD 16x16 burners / GeForce 8800GTX Video card 768mb RAM  Latest ASUS 650i board, supports 1066/1333 DDR.
Case includes 6 HD bays. A 600watt PSU (enough to power 2x 8800GTX) & XP PRO.
Prices are from www.newegg.com as of 12-25-2007

Notes: RAM is faster & for an extra $30 an over clocked version of the 8800GTX was available.

NoteB: An Overclocker may buy the $220 C2D e6400 CPU + $50 Heatsink and reach the performance of a X6800 CPU. Since the Dell uses slower RAM, itll always have performance issues no matter how much the system is over clocked. So a price of $2340 is possible to have a PC that is faster and cooler than the $4200+ Dell.

Which would you buy? And you can find a tech to build such a system for about $200~300.

A quick backtrack to the mid-range gaming Dell:
$1550  Dell XPS 410 with Core2 6300 with 2gb 667mhz / 250gb HD / 7900gs video card.
$1350  Hand-built 6300 with 2gb 800mhz / 400gb HD / 8800GTS / SLI mobo system
and a system that can over clock and a video card that is 3-4x more powerful.

So besides a lot of data what is the lesson:

For basic pre-built systems under $1500, you might as well get a $600~700 AMD from HP thatll perform about the same as many other Core2Duos (6300/6400) and more expandable as typical Dell systems (the low end e520/521 series).

A TRUE high-end gaming/workstation PC is hundreds if not close to $2000 cheaper than a pre-built (but wait 2-4 weeks for delivery) Dell system.

Links: 
Dell 710 : http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsdt_710?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Dell 410 : Notice! The XPS 410 has been renamed 9200
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_9200?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Dell e521:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/dimen_e521?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

And of course: www.newegg.com & www.pricewatch.com to shop online
www.anandtech.com for excellent detailed reviews
www.tomshardware.com for the video and CPU charts + reviews.


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## SouthParkXP101

Dell sucks..... here is a good idea, dont buy them


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## Compiler

That's all....?


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## neos1

Thanks Compiler, 

I'm about to purchase/build and the information that you put together here is valuable.


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## anonymousx

well ive never had a problem with dell, saying their crap is out of line.
yeah dells c521's mini's arent going to be ground breaking, their supposed to be small and compact to get the job done, not exceed anyones expectations.
Dell's e521, well their base is midrange, but have great options for customization.
Dell does not have a Mini Tower E521, i think you meant the Dell C521, thats the Mini Tower. yeah everything's crammed in it to. 

i bought a dell e521 and customized it to an 
AMD X2 dual core 4600+ " LIVE!"
3 gigs of ddr2 dual ram
Corsair 620W HX power supply
1 soon to be 2 EVGA 8800GTS 640mb 320 bit cards
Windows vista premium though i dont need half the features
250gig hd

i dont know, but i agree with others that intels dual core may be 5 to 10% faster than amd's dual cores, but amd still has the better deal in their pockets as far as
price vs performance goes. while dells pc's might be midrange there are several options open to upgrade them as well, which has worked out nicely for me.

i dont really have the want to dish out over 2000.00 for a gaming pc that will outdate itself in a year or two, OverKill


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## Compiler

I said that DELL systems, while improved quite a bit from their previous designs in that they ALL include a graphics-slot (PCIe 16x) - That the 52xE series (Not the tiny boxes) make for lousy gaming systems, unless the user gets nothing more than a 7600gs, and thats pushingit... wihout installing a new PSU. HP includes at least 350watts.

How do you expect to FIT 1, much less 2 8800GTS cards into a Dell 52x?

Why get 2 GTS cards?

Why get a Dell... for gaming?


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## loserOlimbs

Worth mentioning....

The PCIe slot is nice, but not an all new introduction from Dell, the 4700 dimensions had SATA and an open PCIe. Most importantly though, the PSUs are still low end and a good PCIe card will be out of the question without a new PSU most likely.


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## anonymousx

it fits fine, two will be a tight fit at that.

the stock psu was 305w, Big deal, if your going to upgrade to a good pci-e card, you'll end up needing to upgrade the psu in the first place.

i replaced the 305w psu with a 620w psu for 169.00
never intended to use the stock psu in the first place.

ive shared your info with others, and they think its bull. 
heh


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## lexmarks567

good well tell your boss at dell sense you work for them. that there computers are junk and we will just buy there computers for firewood


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## loserOlimbs

anonymousx said:


> ive shared your info with others, and they think its bull.
> heh


Where is the Bull? What did I miss?


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## Compiler

anonymousx said:


> it fits fine, two will be a tight fit at that.
> 
> the stock psu was 305w, Big deal, if your going to upgrade to a good pci-e card, you'll end up needing to upgrade the psu in the first place.
> 
> i replaced the 305w psu with a 620w psu for 169.00
> never intended to use the stock psu in the first place.
> 
> ive shared your info with others, and they think its bull.
> heh


The PSU is the least of the problems... and I specified the e52x, not the c52x. (YOu'd think Dell had enough talent to cup up with 510 or 515)

When you are having a point and counter point about a subject - you need to work abit to prove or show the other side as wrong or incorrect. It is one thing to BUY a Dell today and then decide to make it a bit of a power system later (ie: didn't know) vs. Buying a dell, knowing its a POS for gaming.

1 - 305 watt is very weak, always to be replaced with a decent video card. Oh wow, youre spending $170 for a 620PSU to power what....?

2 - As stated, all Dell e520/521s come with 533mhz DDR2 RAM ONLY... rather sub-standard for a "power user"... at least 667mhz to be respectable. The XPS 410 does come with 667Mhz DDR.

3 - Installing (2x) GeForce 8800gts cards: The Dell e521/e520 only have a SINGLE PCIe x16 slot.... so exactly HOW are you going to fit 2 8800gts cards? Perhaps you should have read my review rathe than the first few lines... Not EVEN the XPS 410 includes a 2nd PCI x16 slot... So the only way you're gonna get 2 PCIe gaming cards into these PCs is by replacing the mobo... but how many MiniATX boards support 2 PCIe x16 slots? (hint, none)

4 - How do you install a single 8800gts card? It requires TWO SLOT areas! Not only can you NOT attach it to the case, but the CPU & cooling system are in the way. Did you know that two objects cannot occupy the same space?

Here on Newegg... locate a single-slot 8800gts: here is 25 to look at.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...e=&Description=8800GTS&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all

And here is the tech page for the e521... but I already included the page:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_e521?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

As stated before... for a basic system - the e52x are fine... for gaming, they are limted... Your statement "great options for customization" ?? 3 lame video options, very limited drive options, only Vista and a few HD options. When I go to newegg or Frys, I can choose from dozens of HDs, 100+ video cards etc etc.

Now, if you modifed the case a lot or Dells has made some changes to their e521 that is not on their website - you can't fit a dual-spaced video card. Take pictures of your system with the 8800gts... what has been customized?

$2000 for a killer gaming system? Sheesh, a lot of power can be built for about $1000~1200... unless you buy a Dell. the XPS 410 is about $1400 off shelf. But then ya need to toss out the PSU and Video card... (Waste of money) then spend $600+ adding parts you have just removed.

Recap:
521/520 = Very limited space, slow, weak power and expansion.
XPS 410 = improved in all areas, but can still handle only a single powerful card.
For the price, I could build a system with a lot more power.
XPS 710 = very expensive... yet still lower-performance 667mhz RAM.

So why buy a Dell....


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## twinlights7

I'm running a 7900GS in my E520 just fine on the stock PSU.


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## Compiler

That is good to know... 305watts is cutting it quite close. Is there any indication if its an Active PFC PSU? Also, have you played a game on full load? That requires more power.

If so - then it means owners of e520/521s can at least handle a 7900gs/7600gt.


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## twinlights7

Um, not sure about the Active PFC, but I did need to purchase a Y-cable power splitter for the card's 6-pin PCIe power thing. I've run America's Army, NWN 2, and CS:S all at max settings consistently. I run BF2 and Guild Wars on medium settings otherwise I would lag more than I need to.


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## lexmarks567

loserOlimbs said:


> Where is the Bull? What did I miss?


he said his boss thinks are reports are bull   so we think there computers are bull as there a pile of junk and all there good for is firewood.


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## Compiler

twinlights7 said:


> Um, not sure about the Active PFC, but I did need to purchase a Y-cable power splitter for the card's 6-pin PCIe power thing. I've run America's Army, NWN 2, and CS:S all at max settings consistently. I run BF2 and Guild Wars on medium settings otherwise I would lag more than I need to.


You're not running with power-cable to the video card? Drive to a store and pick one up... some video cards include a Y-adaptor. You know the card will be drawing more power once you plug the cable in.

AA / Steam-Source games all run very well on yesterday's TOP gen cards just fine (ATI 9800 / GF 5900) So a 7600GT/7900gs have no problems with such games. Now, UT3 - Crysis - thats a different beast altogether!


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## Killazys

For my computers, you go into NYC into a little custom-computer shop, where you basically direct wherever you want everything to go. My computer was around $1300, and has:
1 GB RAM, 3.00 Ghz, 186 Gigs storage, 2 cooling fans, 2 expandable RAM slots, 2 front USB, 3 back, 3and1/2 floppy, and a 86x CD/DVD slot. With complete support. And NVidia GeForce. I love that place. Or you could stick with Alienware, of course.


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## dcarpenter97

Does the system simply not boot? Overheats? For example, I'd like to run a E521 with a 7600GT card and an additional SATA hard drive off the the stock 305 watt power supply. Am I going to need a new power supply right off the bat?


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## Compiler

You can try.... but that's cutting it close. 350watt or better would be safer for the 7600GT. Some run 7900GS on such a machine (Dell e520 = AMD CPU / 1 PCIe-x16 / BTX)


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## Compiler

Never heard back from anonymousx, who said he stuck in a 600watt PSU into the Dell (that would be a tight fit) and not one but TWO 8800 cards into a PC that can't even fit one.


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## Rockn

lexmarks567 said:


> good well tell your boss at dell sense you work for them. that there computers are junk and we will just buy there computers for firewood


What country are you from? Maybe you could work for DELL support, I can understand your typing as well as the Indian fellow on the other end of the support call.

DELL is find and you get what you pay for. I have only ever had problems with the SFF models and their heat issues. If you are buying a home PC offering for a gaming rig you get what you deserve since they are not designed as gaming PCs.

DELL has aquired Alienware if you want a decent gaming computer or take some initiative and build your own.


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## caprisunn441

I have a Dell E521, and I was going to buy an 8800 gts because someone on another site told me that it would fit, but now I read this and I don't know what to do. Is there anyway possible to fit an 8800gts into a Dell E521? Even if I have to replace other parts like the power supply or something. Cause right now I have a 7300 LE and it sucks, I just want to by a graphics card that can run any game ever made with the graphics maxed all the way out and not have any lag. Is that at all possible with my computer? I don't care how much I have to replace, I just want to know if it's possible.

This guy says it will fit--- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070308072143AA07Sjv


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## Compiler

Bwahaha... Please post a response to that guy... "how does it FIT?" The PSU is the least of the problems.

What I typed above is pretty accurate (AFAIK). But also look at this discussion that we had with a user with the same DELL case (older model #, but same)
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/538051-solved-adding-hdmi-video-dell.html?highlight=Dell

It includes photos. Notice how the GF7600 video card just barely misses the CPU. Imagine a larger card with its cooling fan DIRECTLY on the CPU cooler hood! The photos on #14 shows how much space the 7600GT uses. The 8800gts is a TWO card area design. Looking at the 2nd photo - you can see there is NO slot above the video card.

Here is all the 8800GTS cards on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=8800GTS

Any of them a single-slot design? You're going to have to wait for the 8600GT

Here is a 8600GT: http://img.article.pchome.net/00/18/81/69/clip_image005.jpg

I wouldn't trust anyone who thinks a $24 power supply is a true "550watt" PSU - considering the extra cost for the "tricked-out" lights can fan covers and thinking YOU need "adaptors" - when you DON'T. Thats only for OLDER Dells for about 3+ years ago.

There are still SLOT issues as noted on the other posting above.

Here is the Dell case-compatible upgraded PSU:
http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S47D&view=about
Notice the tech specs and the photos... and PC P&C is one of the best.

With the AMD CPU - you should be able to pop-in a $125~150 GF7600GT, maybe a 7900gs without replaceing the PSU... like the $150 unit above.

Also - you may want to see about replacing your AMD CPU with a dual-core model. The "e521" could be about a dozen different configs - but Dell doesn't seem to sell many dual-core models.

With the limitations built into the Dell - your system will never come close to being "maxed out" with every game made. With a GF7600GT, games like HL2, PREY, Quake4 will run very good in 1280x1024 and maybe 1600x1200.

PS: please show YOUR proof on the other message board with the links above. He's wrong in Slot/Space limits, PSU connectors, and quality of PSUs.


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## caprisunn441

I don't know a whole lot about computers so this may be a stupid question but if I do spend $150 on that new PSU, would it fit then? What do you mean by slot issues? Will the 8600GT be close to as good as the 8800GTS? And what about the 7950GT? I don't care if I have to buy a new PSU, I just want to know the best possible card that will fit my computer. Wikipedia says that the 7950 GX2 only takes up a single PCIe x16 slot.


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## Compiler

Dell PSUs have SLOTS to slide into, bracket type thing - I gave you a link about that above.

8600 will not be a 8800... no benchmarks yet.

7950 GX2 requires 2 slot AREA. Refer to link above I had included with images.

8800 are single slot cards - but require 2 SLOT areas. Here is my quote above "The 8800gts is a TWO card area design."


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## caprisunn441

So do you think the best thing to do would be to wait for the 8600GT? Cause I have vista and Im thinking I should get a card that has directx 10.


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## Compiler

Yes, if you can wait another month or so. Also, perhaps the drivers for Vista will work correctly or better than currently.

You'll still may need a bigger PSU - we'll know when the GF8600s are on the market and the reviews come in. I am expecting the 8600GT to perform the same as the 7900GTX - but for $175~225.


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## Compiler

Good news to those with these type of Dell systems (e521/e520) -

Gigabyte has made a REV2 version of their fanless 7600GT! The Silent Pipe II!

It is smaller, uses only 1 slot area and even costs less! $129 from newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125057


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## ForumNoob

soo um is dell really really bad for gaming? im about to order a dell 
specs

PROCESSOR :AMD Athlon&#8482; 64 X2 Dual-Core 5000+
OPERATING SYSTEM: Genuine Windows Vista&#8482; Home Premium
MONITOR: 17 inch E197FP Analog Flat Panel
MEMORY : 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD+/-RW Drive edit
VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
SOUND Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio


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## tylerzettler

no dells will game!! but there are always going to be weaker that a custom built

#1 "propiatary" dells are very unupgradable that power supply problem "will be tight" a 250watt to a 1000watt all fit into a custom case dells are for noobs none the less if you want a good computer go to a Computer store that specialize in desktops and gaming computers 

"People that stick up for dells must own one" 
the only reason i would recomend one to someone is if there a noob and have no concept of internal parts 

"take it from someone who worked at dell"


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## tylerzettler

will game!! but there are always going to be weaker that a custom built

#1 "propiatary" dells are very unupgradable that power supply problem "will be tight" a 250watt to a 1000watt all fit into a custom case dells are for noobs none the less if you want a good computer go to a Computer store that specialize in desktops and gaming computers 

"People that stick up for dells must own one" 
the only reason i would recomend one to someone is if there a noob and have no concept of internal parts 

"take it from someone who worked at dell"


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## caprisunn441

So if I have a 305W PSU, would I be able to use an 8600GTS without buying a new power supply? I read on this other site that a guy with a 305W power supply is going to buy a 4-Pole Molex splitter to get extra power and he says that it should be enough to power it. Would that work on my computer, a Dell E521?

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/712667.html


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## Compiler

My review for the Dell e520/e521 still applies to you, ForumNoob.

Check out the links - such as the graphics performance, etc.

If you're looking at playing Halo3/ Crysis/ UT2004 - it would be very limited.

The NEW HPAQs have flipped the ATX board and maybe a problem now... until I get another look at it.


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## Compiler

caprisunn441 said:


> So if I have a 305W PSU, would I be able to use an 8600GTS without buying a new power supply? I read on this other site that a guy with a 305W power supply is going to buy a 4-Pole Molex splitter to get extra power and he says that it should be enough to power it. Would that work on my computer, a Dell E521?
> 
> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/712667.html


The 8600GT (so far as we know from 1-2 websites) is about 15~20% faster than the 7600GT... Until TOMS & Anandtech take a look at it.

The 8600GT is only 9 watts over a typical 7600GT. But at 305watts, you'll still be cutting it close. There are 1-2 companies making replacement Dell PSUs. (450watt, for example).


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## caprisunn441

Ok so Im gonna buy this card-- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130086 . I don't think a 305W PSU will be enough but that Dell PSU that you showed me earlier was way to expensive, so would this PSU fit in a Dell? --- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148027 Cause it has the same power for about $120 less than that Dell PSU.


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## Compiler

1 - The reviews on the 8600GT/GTX are out on www.anandtech.com and www.tomshardware.com Sigh... These 8600s are not like the 7600GT or Ti4200s in which you got a lot of performance for your money. They should have replaced the GF7950GT which also costs $220.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150220 Its easily the faster card - but doesn't have HDCP if that matters.

The 8600 are not great - but will eventually replace the 7900s... perhaps driver updates will help? 

2 - Don't buy cheap junky PSU. Stick to name brands. The DELL e521 has slots in the case to HOOK into the PSU. You CAN use a regular PSU - as long as you don't mind SHOVING it into the case and causing a little metal bending. brands: Antec / Thermaltake / PC Power & Cooling / Vantec...

Try this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023
I think I included a link to another article in which the PSU wil require you to bend some metal but will fit. If you have issues with that, you'd need to purchases an aftermarket Dell compatible case.


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## caprisunn441

What would happen if I used a video card that my power supply couldn't handle? Would any permanent damage be done?


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## Compiler

System becomes unstable... crashes randomly (software or whole system). Could lead to HD errors (loss of data). May not power up. May damage PSU, the video card, the motherboard or worse - everything in the box.. except for the case. May explode (very very rare)... but its all better when it doesn't jump out and chase you around your home with a knife.

Read the first part of this review, until you get to the pretty picture:
http://www.dansdata.com/top420p4.htm

Ah, here read this. And click on the pictures about using a standard PSU in a dell. it works - if you don't mind bend metal... that most people will never see.
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/538051-solved-adding-hdmi-video-dell.html?highlight=Dell

The 305watt Dell PSU cannot handle the load of a 8600GTS or 79xxGT/S


----------



## caprisunn441

Ok, I just ordered that 430W PSU that you showed me, and a 7950GT cause after I saw how much better it did on battlfield 2 than the 8600GTS I changed my mind. I just hope I can install everything the right way, the one and only time that I have ever messed with the inside of a computer resulted in both of my cd drives being permanently broken. I should be ok if they come with directions. Thanks for your help on everything.


----------



## Compiler

Its straight forward.... unscrew the screws on the PSU, disconnect everything - install new PSU, etc etc.

Then do the video card next. With the POWER cord plugged but the master switch is in OFF position. Touch the PSU to ground yourself from time to time, especially before you touch the video card.


----------



## caprisunn441

How am I supposed to power the hard drive and the cd drives when there are only two SATA cables? I have to either power the hard drive or the cd drives, it can't reach both. It can't boot if I don't power the hard drive and I cant install the video card if I don't power the cd drive. Is there an extension cord I could buy? Cause I only need one cd drive, I could use an extension cord to power the hard drive and the cd drive.


----------



## Compiler

Oh - okay I see the problem. Dell uses SATA for all drives...

I'm used to seeing adaptors when I build PCs so I have about 6 of them... but yeah, go to a CompUSA or Fry's or whatever PC store - and it should cost about $2~5 for a Molex > SATA power adaptor.

I think that PSU is on the low-cost end nowadays because it only has one line of SATA power and I'm seeing PSUs with 2x sata and 2x Molex. That thermaltake is 1x Sata / 3x Molex. And Dell's BTX setup totally throws you off.

The Adaptor will work just fine.

Looks like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201002

newegg is your PC Friend (just typed in "molex sata adatptor")


----------



## mharmon

caprisunn441 --

Whatever became of this? did you successfully install the new power supply without ruining your case? I too have a e521 and am looking to upgrade my PSU..

Looking forward to hearing back from you.


----------



## guitar21

dell s suck the only reason to buy dell is if you know nothing about computers or need one on finance eg:my mum the boxes look good and sound quiet but it only takes $50 to buy nice looking box with out psu


----------



## guitar21

my mum payed $2000 for celeron 2.6 ghz 15 " lcd onboard vidio/sound/modem
well it looked good she got stuck one day and couldnt contact me to find out where her desktop icons went so she rang the no:0131blablabla on the dell sticker they helped her out

thats why you buy a dell id peffer tsg


----------



## syrics06

You CAN put a High-end graphics card into a Dell E521 with some minor mods. 

***DO NOT ATTEMPT IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN ADEQUATE SKILLS***


I just purchased a dell E521 and realized that my NEW X1950XT will NOT FIT and saw this forum stating that it wasnt really possible to fit a double-slot GPU. I wasn't about to take that for an answer.

SECTION I (GETTING IT TO FIT)

1)I went to walmart and purchased a Dremel for $25.00. 

2)I proceeded to cut a small area in the plastic cover of the X1950XT (NOT COMPROMISING HEAT DISTRIBUTION) and also on the dell heatsink plastic cover. 

3)Also cut plastic where heat leaves the X1950XT at the TOP so the X1950XT can breath.

4)place 80mm fan above X1950XT to suck heat out of case.

5)Cut the double bracket in half to make a single graphics bracket because DELL was CLEVER and didnt want their lower-end desktops having HIGH powered graphics so they only left a SINGLE slot for the GPU.



SECTION II (POWERING THE BEAST)

Everyone knows that a 305watt PSU that comes with the Dell E521 is insufficient in powering a card like the X1950XT. 

MY SOLUTION: I purchased the 5.25" Drive-bay 250watt Thermaltake PSU from NEWEGG for $60.00 shipped.

After everything was complete I fired it up without any issues. 

Ran many strenuous tests for hours on end and had no problems with heat.

GPU stays at 62 Degrees Celsius under the most extreme conditions. (Over-clocking NOT INCLUDED)



SYSTEM SPECS:

Dell E521
AMD X2 4400+ 2.3Ghz
2GB DDR2 667Mhz
250GB 7200RPM HDD
48X CDRW/DVD
Radeon X1950XT 512MB
Thermaltake 250Watt GPU PSU
Dell 22" Wide-screen 1650X1080

TOTAL PC BUILD COST: $1080.00

3DMARK 2003 Score: 17845
3DMark 2006 Score: 5630

***PICS TO FOLLOW***


----------



## syrics06

mharmon said:


> caprisunn441 --
> 
> Whatever became of this? did you successfully install the new power supply without ruining your case? I too have a e521 and am looking to upgrade my PSU..
> 
> Looking forward to hearing back from you.


PURCHASE THIS: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153037

If you are upgrading the PSU due to a high powered GPU.

THE THERMALTAKE PSU ONLY ENGAGES POWER WHEN THE 305WATT PSU IS'NT SUPPLYING ENOUGH. VERY NICE.


----------



## Peter Komar

tylerzettler said:


> no dells will game!! but there are always going to be weaker that a custom built
> 
> #1 "propiatary" dells are very unupgradable that power supply problem "will be tight" a 250watt to a 1000watt all fit into a custom case dells are for noobs none the less if you want a good computer go to a Computer store that specialize in desktops and gaming computers
> 
> "People that stick up for dells must own one"
> the only reason i would recomend one to someone is if there a noob and have no concept of internal parts
> 
> "take it from someone who worked at dell"


Thats a load of crap, they are very upgradable if you know what your doing.


----------



## syrics06

syrics06 said:


> You CAN put a High-end graphics card into a Dell E521 with some minor mods.
> 
> ***DO NOT ATTEMPT IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN ADEQUATE SKILLS***
> 
> I just purchased a dell E521 and realized that my NEW X1950XT will NOT FIT and saw this forum stating that it wasnt really possible to fit a double-slot GPU. I wasn't about to take that for an answer.
> 
> SECTION I (GETTING IT TO FIT)
> 
> 1)I went to walmart and purchased a Dremel for $25.00.
> 
> 2)I proceeded to cut a small area in the plastic cover of the X1950XT (NOT COMPROMISING HEAT DISTRIBUTION) and also on the dell heatsink plastic cover.
> 
> 3)Also cut plastic where heat leaves the X1950XT at the TOP so the X1950XT can breath.
> 
> 4)place 80mm fan above X1950XT to suck heat out of case.
> 
> 5)Cut the double bracket in half to make a single graphics bracket because DELL was CLEVER and didnt want their lower-end desktops having HIGH powered graphics so they only left a SINGLE slot for the GPU.
> 
> SECTION II (POWERING THE BEAST)
> 
> Everyone knows that a 305watt PSU that comes with the Dell E521 is insufficient in powering a card like the X1950XT.
> 
> MY SOLUTION: I purchased the 5.25" Drive-bay 250watt Thermaltake PSU from NEWEGG for $60.00 shipped.
> 
> After everything was complete I fired it up without any issues.
> 
> Ran many strenuous tests for hours on end and had no problems with heat.
> 
> GPU stays at 62 Degrees Celsius under the most extreme conditions. (Over-clocking NOT INCLUDED)
> 
> SYSTEM SPECS:
> 
> Dell E521
> AMD X2 4400+ 2.3Ghz
> 2GB DDR2 667Mhz
> 250GB 7200RPM HDD
> 48X CDRW/DVD
> Radeon X1950XT 512MB
> Thermaltake 250Watt GPU PSU
> Dell 22" Wide-screen 1650X1080
> 
> TOTAL PC BUILD COST: $1080.00
> 
> 3DMARK 2003 Score: 17845
> 3DMark 2006 Score: 5630
> 
> ***PICS TO FOLLOW***


PICS AS PROMISED:


----------



## Compiler

Peter Komar said:


> Thats a load of crap, they are very upgradable if you know what your doing.


Care to explain? You only made a statement which is more of an opinion.

Upgradable? In what way? For the most part, DELL is the ONLY PC manufacture making BTX systems (no longer supported by intel, never accepted by AMD) So only Dell can replace the mobo when it fails. Not 100% standard PSU, but far better than in the past.

2 tight HD bays, limted GPU space - without hacking the case and/or card (exit warranty).

*if* you know what you're doing with a "gaming PC" - a standard price Dell isn't the way to start.... unless you buy the rip-off XPS 700 series. (add $150 to upgrade HD from 250gb > 500gb - funny, a retail 500gb HDs are hitting $120 - Wow, thanks Dell for the bargin!)

For fun: A bottom end XPS 710 (e6600 / 2GB RAM / 500gb / 8800gts) = $1,989 can be owned by a $1000 AMD64 x2 3800 (Almost Slowest dual core AMD) 1GB / 500gb / 8800GTX = $1,070

You can keep the Dell - I'll take the $900...


----------



## Compiler

syrics06 said:


> You CAN put a High-end graphics card into a Dell E521 with some minor mods.
> 
> ***DO NOT ATTEMPT IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN ADEQUATE SKILLS***


1 - Sorry to hear about finding out your issue when you got the e521 - I give you a THUMBS up for not letting that stop you. 

2 - Folks should keep in mind that modifications such as this will void the warranty... and many folks wouldn't try this.

3 - Even with your MOD below, you are still limited in choices... lucky for you, the X1950XT's cooler is in a good shape to work for you. The 8800GTX and perhaps most 8800GTS - wouldn't fit.



> 4)place 80mm fan above X1950XT to suck heat out of case.
> 
> 5)Cut the double bracket in half to make a single graphics bracket because DELL was CLEVER and didnt want their lower-end desktops having HIGH powered graphics so they only left a SINGLE slot for the GPU.


How is the noise? Yeah... Dell could have PUT that X16 PCIe slot down a notch. But Nooooooooooo!

Hence, I recommend HPaqs or Acers for name-brand off-shelf systems.



> MY SOLUTION: I purchased the 5.25" Drive-bay 250watt Thermaltake PSU from NEWEGG for $60.00 shipped.


That's a handy little thingy. Price isn't bad. You may want to check the heat of your optical drive after a heavy-load of gaming. That PSU could be burning up your drive.

Thanks for including pics.


----------



## syrics06

KEY:
***MY RESPONSEs***


1 - Sorry to hear about finding out your issue when you got the e521 - I give you a THUMBS up for not letting that stop you.  
***THANKS***

2 - Folks should keep in mind that modifications such as this will void the warranty... and many folks wouldn't try this. 
***Wasn't really too concerned about voiding warranty.***

3 - Even with your MOD below, you are still limited in choices... lucky for you, the X1950XT's cooler is in a good shape to work for you. The 8800GTX and perhaps most 8800GTS - wouldn't fit. 
***Went with the X1950XT because it hangs with the 8800GTS and is alot better priced...An alternative to the cutting the bracket and the fan cover...aka voiding warranty, you can buy a single slot bracket and change the cooling to the self contained thermaltake liquid cooling unit and if you run into a warranty issue you can just re-assemble it to stock but I didnt feel like spending more money or time.***



How is the noise? Yeah... Dell could have PUT that X16 PCIe slot down a notch. But Nooooooooooo! 

***Case runs very quiet...silent in windows with just apps, but with heavy gaming load you can hear the thermaltake and x1950xt kick up the fans.***

Hence, I recommend HPaqs or Acers for name-brand off-shelf systems.
***I chose to work with what I had because my fiancee bought it for me for my birthday present.***

That's a handy little thingy. Price isn't bad. You may want to check the heat of your optical drive after a heavy-load of gaming. That PSU could be burning up your drive.
***The thermaltake runs VERY COOL and EFFICIENT no worries there.***


Thanks for including pics. 
***NO PROBLEM!***:up:


----------



## AAVet

Hey syrics,
I am thinking about buying an E521, but before you installed your X1950XT, what programs/games were you running? If I get one, I'll have the 64 X2 Dual-Core 5000+, 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs, and 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro (it'll only cost me $950.00 through my company which is why I am looking at that specifically.) I'm trying to get some opinions on how that would run games, esp. FPS, since upgrading it can require more modifications than I really want to do. I like how you made your card fit though, nice job. Thanks


----------



## syrics06

AAVet said:


> Hey syrics,
> I am thinking about buying an E521, but before you installed your X1950XT, what programs/games were you running? If I get one, I'll have the 64 X2 Dual-Core 5000+, 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 4DIMMs, and 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro (it'll only cost me $950.00 through my company which is why I am looking at that specifically.) I'm trying to get some opinions on how that would run games, esp. FPS, since upgrading it can require more modifications than I really want to do. I like how you made your card fit though, nice job. Thanks


It sounds like a pretty solid system.

However, If you are looking to play games and like to crank up the settings...then the x1300 will not suffice.

What size monitor will you be playing on?

Do you care how the games look? If you are the type of person that just wants to play and can have all the settings down low...then the card will be fine.

I personally have the dell 22" and play games with the native resolution of 1650x1080 with the graphics settings cranked up.

There are alternatives to cutting and hacking like I did. If you use the same power supply that I have and buy a single slot card like the SAPHIRE X1950PRO 512MB edition from NEWEGG.COM then you will be fine:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102075

And its only $179.00!

Add the thermaltake power supply for stable power:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153037

And you will have a STABLE, GAMING-DELL E521!

Hope this helps!


----------



## AAVet

Thanks, it helps a lot. I will be playing on a 21" LCD, resolution is just going to depend on the system since the computer it is on now is older and sits at 1280 x 1024 . I don't need the settings cranked up, just at a decent level, so I'll probably up the card to be sure. Thanks again, I'll let you know how it turns out!


----------



## crookid

hello all,
i just purchased a dim 9200 and already opened her up to see if my tr2-430w thermaltake PSU would fit (had it from my other compooter). i'm thinking not because i don't have enough leads/connectors that match the stock setup, so this leads me here: what PSU should i be looking for? i think, almost certain, that i have a BTX setup. any insight would be helpful. ideally, i'm looking for a 500w PSU.

thanks,
crookid


----------



## thatracer

crookid,

would you be interested in selling that thermaltake psu? Sounds like a better idea than chaning out my whole psu... send me a email: [email protected]

Syrics06,

you have been a HUGE help! I just ordered a E521 earlier this week and was second guessing my decision after reading this thread.... However after reading this you have given me hope that my decesion wasn't half bad :up:

I purchased a E521 with AMD 64 x2 3600+, 1 gb of ram, dvd-rw drive and a decent sized hard-drive. I also received a samsung 19 inch widescreen for free... shipped for a price of 450.00 bucks. I figured it wasn't too bad of a deal. I had to go with the intergrated graphics...

Could somebody give me a walk through or a place I can go to read about disabling the intergrated graphics on the E521 (I heard its a burden)?

thanks!

~mike


----------



## thatracer

syrics06 said:


> Everyone knows that a 305watt PSU that comes with the Dell E521 is insufficient in powering a card like the X1950XT.
> 
> MY SOLUTION: I purchased the 5.25" Drive-bay 250watt Thermaltake PSU from NEWEGG for $60.00 shipped.


Syrics,

Can u explain a little bit about how this psu works? Any mods to the case to install it? Do you need 2 power cords now? Do you need any adapters because the dell is all serial ata hookups? Sorry I'm a newbie when it comes to most technical stuff and especially PSU problems...

~mike


----------



## syrics06

thatracer said:


> Syrics,
> 
> Can u explain a little bit about how this psu works? Any mods to the case to install it? Do you need 2 power cords now? Do you need any adapters because the dell is all serial ata hookups? Sorry I'm a newbie when it comes to most technical stuff and especially PSU problems...
> 
> ~mike


Its very simple. You install it just like you would a CD Drive- 2 Screws. Then you connect everything up. First you would disconnect the main power to the Motherboard and plug them into the harness of the thermaltake. Then plug the thermaltake into the motherboard. Plug power into video card and you are set. You DO NOT NEED to disconnect the serial ATA power or and other power to the system. Basically the thermaltake utilizes the power from the dell psu and when that psu isnt supplying enough power to the system...the thermaltake takes over. Keep in mind though, this is ONLY extra power for GPUs not anything else.

Hope that helps!


----------



## syrics06

thatracer said:


> crookid,
> 
> would you be interested in selling that thermaltake psu? Sounds like a better idea than chaning out my whole psu... send me a email: [email protected]
> 
> Syrics06,
> 
> you have been a HUGE help! I just ordered a E521 earlier this week and was second guessing my decision after reading this thread.... However after reading this you have given me hope that my decesion wasn't half bad :up:
> 
> I purchased a E521 with AMD 64 x2 3600+, 1 gb of ram, dvd-rw drive and a decent sized hard-drive. I also received a samsung 19 inch widescreen for free... shipped for a price of 450.00 bucks. I figured it wasn't too bad of a deal. I had to go with the intergrated graphics...
> 
> Could somebody give me a walk through or a place I can go to read about disabling the intergrated graphics on the E521 (I heard its a burden)?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> ~mike


No Problem. AND CONGRATS!

There really isnt a need to disable the onboard graphics to the dell system. I have had mine for over a month now and never had any combtbility issues with it and my ati card. When you are utilizing a GPU you really dont have to be concerned about the on-board as the GPU automatically overrides the onboard.


----------



## Compiler

Actually... if you cannot disable the onboard video (if you want) and not going to use period, then the onboard video is eating resouces (memory) and requires drivers (memory and CPU cycles).

I've seen systems.. its confusing to some folks... "Why is there 2 monitors showing up in my Display Properties"... ;(


----------



## syrics06

Compiler said:


> Actually... if you cannot disable the onboard video (if you want) and not going to use period, then the onboard video is eating resouces (memory) and requires drivers (memory and CPU cycles).
> 
> I've seen systems.. its confusing to some folks... "Why is there 2 monitors showing up in my Display Properties"... ;(


Suppose if I had a low end processor, 512mb ram, and a 5400rpm harddrive this would matter to me...but seeing as I dont and I have ran countless games and programs without any noticeable gain what so ever - onboard ENABLED OR NOT....I could care less.


----------



## The_Oracle

Dell's new uber-gaming rig, the XPS 720 H2C.



> Priced at $6000 and upwards, it's not cheap, but it does have the hardware to match. The rig continues Dell's expansion into non-Intel motherboard chipsets by including a 680i board, and pairs this with a quad-core Intel QX6700 processor overclocked up to 3.46GHz, plus a pair of 8800 GTXs. There's a couple of gigs of Corsair Dominator RAM in there, ram-ped up to 1066MHz, as well as two 160GB WD Raptor drives. The price also includes a 24-inch display as well as Vista Home Premium. $6k and no Ultimate?


----------



## Compiler

Ah.. Dell finally got it up to actual Gamer Specs... The original version with its OC cooling system came with 667mhz RAM.

Its still a bit of a RIP off at $6000... Going from 2GB to 4GB adds $170 to the price! Worse, they went with 4 DIMMs rather than 2DIMMs - And for really sillyness, to OC that ram to 1066Mhz, is an extra $430 on top of that!

On newegg, actual 1066RAM (2x2 sticks) = $685 But its cheaper to get 4x1 sticks of 1066mhz for $300.. or Dominator (same type as Dell) for $390. (PC800 = $360)

So for $360 (retail) worth of RAM, Dell is selling it OC'ed to the end user for $770. Nice profit.

Ending price = $6600... For something that could be hand-built for $3600!


----------



## The_Oracle

> something that could be hand-built


you can, I can, others can too, but many folks out there do appreciate a full 3 years on-site hardware warranty AND software support ... and that doesn't come free of charge.

now will you please stop considering anyone who is buying a dell computer a complete moron? it's getting a bit tedious :down:


----------



## Compiler

Please find the quote that I call Dell owners "a complete moron".

For business and people who will do nothing more than do internet and office applications - A Dell is as good as HPaq, Gateway - they all come out of the same 2-3 Chinese factories.

But HPaq & Acer gives you more for your money... so why buy a Dell?

If you ARE a hard core gamer, you should KNOW how to build your rig... Blowing an extra $2000~3000 is... well, silly. Especially when a $1600 computer can play games as fast, or slightly faster or slightly slower than a $6000 Dell.

If a user brings a $6000 Dell to a gaming party - he would get laughed at. "You spent how much?" or "gee... you are rich" or "Your parents buy you anything!".

I'm just saying... buying to impress don't impress many people.


----------



## The_Oracle

> a $1600 computer


with a Core2 Extreme QX6700 CPU??? a GeForce 8800GTX graphics card ??? 160 GB WD Raptor hard drives??? even at the cheapest place you wouldn't get just these 3 components for $1600 ... let alone the 24" display



> But HPaq & Acer gives you more for your money... so why buy a Dell?


FYI, the same machine from HP comes at $7194.61 ... umm not exactly the same, you can't even get intel quadcore CPUs with HP's voodoo series, AMD 6000+ x2 is what you get (this CPU is certainly no match for intel's powerhouse) and only one 160 GB raptor included in the price.


----------



## Compiler

1 - Get a lower cost C2D CPU, overclock it. (Saves $700)
2 - 2GB of RAM is only $120 for good stuff ($80 for cheap stuff)
3 - 8800GTX = Yeah, $550...
4 - 2x 500GB HDs = $220.
5 - Case, Mobo, PSU = $200
6 - High End Cooler for CPU = $60, allows OClocking a 2.0~2.6Ghz CPU to 3.4~3.9Ghz.

So with the Cost at $1400~1600 depending on how fancy the case ($50~100) and CPU ($120~300)... As *I* said... "Slightly faster or slower than a $6000 Dell". ($5000~5500 without overclocking the Dell) Want 4 GB, add another $100 or so.

Difference in performance between a $200 C2D and X6800 ($1000) is 15FPS in Quake4 (well over 170fps)

And I am not sold on expensive 10K drives (Hey, I've built servers with 15K RPM drives)... the cost and low storage amount is not worth it... The differnece in loading time for a game is 1-3 seconds. http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2760&p=10
(Besides a little bit quieter and cooler running)

Lets see:
$120 for a 500GB 7200RPM drive Seagate 7200.10 which is about as fast as a Raptor.
or...
$200~250 for a tiny 150B WD Raptor (10,000RPMs) - extra $$ for the windowed-version. (watch your data go round and round at 10,000RPMs)

PS: I didn't say the price included a monitor... Hence, I said $2~3K difference... depending on a few variables.... Toss in a $550 24" LCD monitor, then we're about $2000.... $3000~$5000 less than a Dell. (Oops, I messed up - even cheaper than I thought)
I'd rather get the $680 Samsung 24" http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001222

I don't think many people buy monitors. I'm still using a 19" Samsung (Pro Series 900NF) CRT that'll do 2048x1536 - unusable of course, from 2001.

So on my "Dream system", even if I won $100,000 - would still cost me about $1500. Then I'd get the 24" Samsung.. or perhaps the 30" that does 2560 x 1600 (drool)... yeah, 30"... Its only $1,400... (I sold my first Samsung 24" for $3500, years ago) My Samsung 15" LCD from 1999 (A work/Project display only) was $1000 (and is being used today on a PC I am working on) 

Funny about the Voodoo...  You're paying for a very fancy paint-job case.

When someone spends $3000~8000 for braging rights on a PC, especially a gaming one - that's is a boy who isn't "dating" real girls.

So... lets do a little math? (With 24" monitor)

$6000~7000 for a PC you have to wait 2-4 weeks to get shipped to you... or...
$2000 for a PC you get parts from Newegg in 2-3 days, and build it yourself in a few hours.

Then spend the saving to go on a vacation... Europe, Japan... for a week or two.


----------



## The_Oracle

My cheetahs blow any raptor right outta he water 



> So... lets do a little math? (With 24" monitor)
> 
> $6000~7000 for a PC you have to wait 2-4 weeks to get shipped to you... or...
> $2000 for a PC you get parts from Newegg in 2-3 days, and build it yourself in a few hours.


yes, you can save a lot of money if you go for cheaper components that are nearly as good as the top of the range, but there are people who won't settle for anything less than the best (if you get a VW Golf W12-650, sure you'll hammer any Lamborghini, Porsche or Ferrari out there. but hey, you're still driving a VW Golf, right? 

there must be a market for such machines, or dell, hp and others wouldn't make them (maybe not everyone is into 'DIY'?) ... what surprises me is that dell is pushing their own XPS as the 'uber gaming rig' rather than selling high end though alienware.

And you're NOT always getting the better deal all along the product line with HP. some Dell offers beat the hell out HP when it comes to value/quality for money.


----------



## Compiler

That Golf is sweeeeet. 0 to 60 in 3.5secs! Ferrari needs to make a car that'll do 0~60 under 2 seconds... 
Keep in my Ferrai, etc are basiclly street-legal race cars. That Golf is more concept - it doesn't even have an consumer interior.

Are you comparing these cars to computers? It's not quite the same thing. Golf-Regular is an everyday car, costs $17K+. 
The Golf GTI is a basic low-cost sports car. At about $28, it only does 0~60 in 6.75sec. which is quite good at that price. Things like AC, Stereo/Speakers, spare tire adds weight and power sucking devices... so it doesn't do it under 4secs. My car takes about 10secs 

The $200,000~400,000 Exotic cars ARE for the rich. They are hand built... and they don't get used all that much. They buy the car, stick it a show-garage to show friends what they bought... they may drive it to some special events. But going to the store...?

I am aware that there IS a market for $5000~8000 Gamings computers. But its still braging rights for something that costs 5x the price. And the BIG thing here is that unlike a GTI vs Ferrari vs AVG cars - a 5 year old Ferrari is Still worth $200,000... or maybe gain value.

A 5 year old gaming rig is worth nothing. Which would be better to have, a 2001 $2300 Alienware P4 or a $500 walmart special with 19" LCD monitor? Lets compare:

2001 Alienware: 2.0Ghz P4, 256mb RD-RAM, 40GB HD, 16x DVD player, 24x CD-RW, GeForce3 Video card(64mb). No monitor or speakers. = $2300 ($2700 for 512mb)

2007 AMD64 dual core, 1024mb, 250GB HD, 16x DVD Burner, onboard Video about the same as a GF3(32~256mb shared). No monitor or speakers. = $500 Add $400 for a new PSU and GF8800gts and it turns into a killer machine.

But hey, if someone wants to buy a $6000 computer... more power to them. But I don't think many of them know how much Faster, their computer AREN'T - over a $1500 PC.
For 4x the price... there should be at least 2x the performance.... not 5~10%.... we're talking 8fps with a 100+fps game in 1600x1200.

PS: Like your sig - How does it look this way:
VISTA = Very Insecure System, Try Again


----------



## The_Oracle

well, i wouldn't buy myself a computer (or a car for that matter) as a status symbol.

but you must take into consideration, that support has it's price (whether the service is worth the extra money or not, is debatable). If we buy our parts cheap at newegg, tigerdirect, etc and buld the system ourselves, we don't get any technical support. although we may not need it, a lot of people do.


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## Compiler

True... Sad. Note, when I quoted the price of Dell's systems, its without the 3yr warranty... 

I generally don't recommend the everyday joe to pick, buy and build thier own PC from parts. As we see - many of the choose the CHEAPEST parts... Of course they cannot be expected to know brand names like OZC, Thermaltake, etc...
Afterall, its actually possible to BUILD a PC with $200 worth of parts (before OS), but most of it is low end stuff or junk.


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## Diesel_man3000

Ok i want to upgrade my system and its a dell e521 so i want to know if you think these psu will be okay for me to use i just want to add prob a 7600gt so i'm gonna list em and you guys put your opinion.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182044
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182021


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## Compiler

Refer to message #23 in this thread... it talks about upgrading the e521 - and the cool thing is that the revised 7600gt by Gigabyte is now a single-slot solution. Also it has info about PSU... pretty much any normal sized (physical) ATX PSU will work - you'll have to bend the case a bit... unless you pay extra for a "dell"- slotted model.

Rosewell - is not on the list of things I would put in a computer. Any 400~450 watt PSU from a reputable company should do... about $50~70. Antec, Thermaltake, Enermax are the cheapest of the good stuff.


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## Doctor-J

I have been following this thread regarding Dell E521 video card upgrades. I thought I would pass on my findings.

My research shows an 8600GTS has a typical power consumption of 48 watts and a max of 71 watts which is within the PCIe x16 power standard.

I have an E521 that I ordered a few weeks ago and needed to get multiple screens out of it. So after the reserach and a bit of faith I ordered up an MSI 8600GTS (the one with a heat pipe). Installed it today without the 6 pin power cable and it is running fine. A little more heat coming out the power supply but nothing seems to be overheating. Bencharmarks are way up over the stock 6150LE as you would expect.

I was not trying to build a game platform but a decent setup for my company's software testing under Vista and this box was so dirt cheap. But in any case I have been able to overclock the CPU to 2.4GHz using clockgen and no heat sink changes. At the stock speed the memory is running below DDR667 so a setting of 2.0GHz gets the memory up to speed and there is better than a 10% increase in some benchmark data.

The onboard graphics are so slow I could not run much more than 3DMark2001 to get some numbers. Stock graphics and CPU speed gets a 2,794 and with the switch to the 8600GTS that number jumped to 15,807. I expect with the CPU speed increased and PCIe clock increased that number could go way up but those increases together may exceed the power supply output.

Hope this helps anyone wanting to make the same change.


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## Compiler

Hmmm.. if the video card has a 6pin power connector, then you'll generally need it. 
3DMark01 doesn't really push the card... try 05 and 06... 

Usually, if you don't plug in the connector, the cards are not supposed to power up.


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## Doctor-J

Compiler said:


> Hmmm.. if the video card has a 6pin power connector, then you'll generally need it.
> 3DMark01 doesn't really push the card... try 05 and 06...
> 
> Usually, if you don't plug in the connector, the cards are not supposed to power up.


The card works without the power cable.

3DMark03 is 16233.
3DMark05 is 9116.
3DMark06 is 4935.

All run under Windows Vista.


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## silent_guy

Doctor-J,
your post came just in time.

I ordered the cheapest possible E520: P4D, 512MB, 160GB, X3000, Vista Basic. (Dell may suck, but it's incredible how much computer you can buy for just $334 incl. tax & shipping.) Dell replaced the Intel X3000 with an Nvidia 6150LE.

I plan to buy cheap 2GB somewhere else.

This machine is intended for standard day-to-day use, very light gaming, and also experimentation with CUDA, which is why I want to add an 8600GT or 8600GTS.

Questions:
- Is the Nvidia 6150LE an upgrade compared to the Intel X3000?
- Is it possible to use both the 6150LE and the 8600GT(S) at the same time, with 2 monitors?
- If possible, I want to reinstall Vista on a 80GB partition, with Linux on the other 80GB. My previous Dell had a full WinXP installation CD. Is this still the case for an E520?
- At some point, I may want to replace the P4D 925 with a Core 2 Duo. I understand the sockets are compatible, but are there other factors that may prevent me from doing so? E.g. voltages, form factors, ...
- 8600GT or 8600GTS?

Thanks!


----------



## Doctor-J

silent_guy said:


> Questions:
> - Is the Nvidia 6150LE an upgrade compared to the Intel X3000?
> - Is it possible to use both the 6150LE and the 8600GT(S) at the same time, with 2 monitors?
> - If possible, I want to reinstall Vista on a 80GB partition, with Linux on the other 80GB. My previous Dell had a full WinXP installation CD. Is this still the case for an E520?
> - At some point, I may want to replace the P4D 925 with a Core 2 Duo. I understand the sockets are compatible, but are there other factors that may prevent me from doing so? E.g. voltages, form factors, ...
> - 8600GT or 8600GTS?
> Thanks!


The E520 will have a different motherboard than the E521 since the processor types are different. On the E521 the onboard 6150 video cannot be used when a card is installed and in fact if you have a monitor connected to it a BIOS message will tell you it is an invalid configuration.

I assume the CD has a full installation and with a boot manager you should be able to run the two partitions as you have described.

I chose the MSI 8600GTS because a large component side heat sink will not fit next to the CPU heat sink housing nor will a double slot bracket work unless the case is cut. The MSI 8600GTS is plug and play and has a heat pipe on the backside of the card. The E520 may be different internally and I cannot quote as to the power requirements of that system.

I have run further tests with the AMD CPU clocked at 2.4GHz and there were no power issues.


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## Compiler

Dell has introduce a new design of their PCs.

The Inspiron 53x line to replace the 52x Ds. This is very fast for Dell as they went to the 510/520 line for a little over a year with BTX.

The new design is cleaner and brighter and more importantly, its ATX and allows more room to install cards suchs as 8800 if they will fit... Don't know about the PSUs.


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## Mysta

K, I've bought a 8800GTS with the goal of putting it in my E521. The heatsink isn't in the way, just the heatsink cover so i'll be cutting/removing that. And the second slot i'll have to figure that one out as well. I'll keep updates on how it goes and get some pictures when completed(I'll worry about psu later). If anyone would like to help out or have any tips, namely syrics06. My aim is emayinin

Also, not a huge difference but a little bit cheaper through amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-P...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184719784&sr=8-1


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## Compiler

You'll have to destory the case... modify both the case and video card to fit into the 52x/ series of BTX cases.


The cooling vent being modifed may effect the cooling of your CPU.

My guess thou, the XPS 410/4xx will be the next to get a revised ATX case - while the XPS 7xx series will be last since its Dell's most expensive case, it will cost Dell about $70~90,000 to retool the whole chassis.


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## Mysta

quick update, i've got the vid card to fit, just waiting on the psu, should be in friday=) had to do some mods to case, heatsink tunnel, and northbridge heatsink(not much)

Edit: Running with old card atm, but cpu heatsink shroud and all that is modified and not over heating at all, the case isn't even near warm, we'll have to see what and all the vid card adds to it.


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## crazydavid

Mysta - Care to show some pics, perhaps some more information on what you did etc, im really keen to try this, not afraid of some light hacking at the case if all works well. Any recommendations on psus that cud fit in a e521 and power a 8800gts? Not wanting to spend more than about £50 ($100 i think)


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## Mysta

I'm just going with the 250(300w max) one that syrics showed, it'll power at least a single 8800GTS. Sure let me take some quick pics, i don't have the card in yet because i've yet to mod the northbridge, but it fits. Ok, letting camera battery charge lol. anyway

like i linked before, this is what i'll be using http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-P...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184804080&sr=8-1 42 dollars american, and if i ever switch to atx or something i can always take it with me.
->>>>>>>>>>FIRST OFF, my goal was to not void the cards warranty(If you have one you'll know it iTSELF is close to the price of the whole pc you bought.) So i only modded the computer stuffs, which is i'm sure now voided, so if you want to keep your warranty do not try this.

So, some quick info, I have a E521, from online(not the walmart one), but it should be pretty similar. And an EVGA 8800 GTS 640MB http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5229/1413007110ra4.jpg This thing is by NO means small, i like to call it a boat. First I decided if it was going to be close to the cpu, i may as well take the whole side of the heat sinks shroud off, with exception of the part that holds the heatsink in place, and the part that screws in. So I cut it off, pictures to come for this. And took out the part that hinges nearest the card, i took a gamble with this, hoping it didn't compromise the heatinks grip on the cpu. It didn't, it still holds the heatsink SOLID in place to my surprise(and glee). Also, Instead of having to buy another fan, i decided to go ahead and create a hole beside the hole where the dual dvi's/svid is. I messed up a bit, you may want to measure and mark for a peice at the top to hold to the rest(i accidentally cut one big hole all the way to the other hole so its only holding on bottom/left side, which is still ok, holds to the top with the clamp. The part i haven't done yet is modify is the Northbridge heatsink, i'll point at it in upcoming pictures. From what i've measured, i'll have to take half way down, and 2 rows closest to the card, off. I've researched this and this is a mod that quite a bit of people do to make room for new video cards, it will not hurt your northbridge from what i've read. Once the northbridge is modded and you have another power supply, you should be set! Any questions ask!


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## crazydavid

I really love that thermaltake thing, im still in awe at how clever that is, If Mystas able to get the 8800 working i think thats the way to go. The only concern i have is that it requires a 5.25" slot, but my slots being occupied by a cardreader that i use all the time. Is there any real limitations to keeping the psu in one of the cd bays above it? Im guessing it has no moving parts so it wouldnt wiggle or anything would it?


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## Mysta

lol, 5.25 slot is the cd reader, by default your computer should come with a dvd burning drive and an empty 5.25 slot, refer to syrics picture.

http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/106049d1179319758/sta70594.jpg

But really, it doesn't move around any, if you don't move your computer much i don't really see a problem sitting on top of your computer or something.


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## crazydavid

If the 5.25" bay is the cd rom drive i think this is perfect for me. Just need some way of getting the card in, Mysta how do you plan to conquer the ventilation at the back? Cut a big hole out of the case?


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## Mysta

crazydavid said:


> If the 5.25" bay is the cd rom drive i think this is perfect for me. Just need some way of getting the card in, Mysta how do you plan to conquer the ventilation at the back? Cut a big hole out of the case?


a picture for anyone who's interested, only thing not done here is northbridge mod

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9274/nbmodnq2.jpg


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## Mysta

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/384/comp010ez3.jpg


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## Martor

Does anyone know if it's possible to do the same thing for the Dell E520 - i.e. squeezing in an 8800gts? It looks like there's actually more space, but it would still require a case mod, right?


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## Compiler

E520 and E521 use the same case... just that one is AMD and the other is Intel.

But the INTEL placement of the CPU maybe different from AMD.

But as others have posted and refer to links - you'll need to hack up the case and shove in a 450watt PSU into the case.

But the problem I see with the INTEL version (going by photos) is that it cannot hold an 8800 card because it uses up space where the CPU cooler is.

At least as of now, Dell has gone back to standard ATX and do not have this problem.

(And people says that Intel doesn't screw up heheh)


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## Martor

Your right - Looking inside the box, it does look like the CPU heatsink would intefere just slightly with the larger graphics card. Although, other than being a pain to dissasemble and trim the cooler, I can't see that this would fundamentally cause any problems given that the CPU is not overclocked. Having the graphics card close to the CPU outlet might cause the card to get a bit hotter than it would normally, but would this really cause any major headaches?

I also found this link on the Dell forums from someone who has been brave (or foolish) enough to try and mod the E520 to fit the 8800gts - http://www.dellcommunity.com/suppor...hread.id=159213&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

More concerning might be the compatabilty problems that this guy reported with the E520/XP/8800gts combo, but he seemed to fix this by switching to Vista (which I'd rather not do.)


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## SgtMajor718

I hate Dell will never buy from them and will tell everyone i know not to buy from them


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## Compiler

VISTA is still nothing more thant garbage with a pretty transparent face. Gamers are generally NOT using it. With both DX9 and DX10 games, they ALL RUN SLOWER ON VISTA. M$ should be sued to make DX10 for XP... then Games would really run good.

Keep in mind that you'll need to replace the PSU - you can buy a more expensive Dell-compatible PSU (how it fits into the case) or get a 450watt Thermaltake for about $45 and bend a bit more metal on the case (YOu are already hacking up the case anyways) or a 500 watt for about $70~90.

The guy on the Dell site says he's using the original 300watt with his 8800gts... while IT IS working, he is actually killing his PSU with a constant high-load.... which means its running extra hot and will fail a lot sooner with a danger of taking out the rest of his system.

Even those who are using 700 watt PSUs are typically running at 60% load max- but they are better built to handle it... A PC may eat 200~300watts while doing basic desktop work.


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## DarqueMist

SgtMajor718 said:


> I hate Dell will never buy from them and will tell everyone i know not to buy from them


a very concise easy to understand response
but pretty much meaningless when no reasons are given for why you feel that way


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## Compiler

I don't like DELLs myself... but for the TYPICAL end user (Word processing, email, web surfing and business office type work) ANY $400~600 computer from Walmart (which sells Dells) Best buy, Circut City, Frys with 2GB of RAM and Vista will work fine.

These all have simular performance... and simular QUALITY. All these companies have semi-useless tech support from India. So Dell, Hpaq, Acer, Gateway - it makes no difference.

The LATEST Dells are easily better than the e520/521 series since they are ATX and NOT BTX.


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## Martor

OK - I actually went ahead and did the mod today - i.e. installing a (BFG) 8800gts in a stock Dell E520 (E6400) following the guy's instructions from the Dell Forum. So far so good - and I haven't had to reinstall xp (yet!). I put in an Antec 650W power supply just to be safe - it doesn't fit perfectly and the hard drive connectors are a touch too long too clear the side wall of the case, but hey.

Tips if anyone is thinking about doing this:

1. Buy a dremel kit or similar cutting tool (can't image how you would do this otherwise)
2. You don't actually have to cut the metal cpu heatsink only the shroud (the dude's instructions aren't particularly clear on this). But there is only a millimetre or so clearance between the edge of the heatsink and the end of the graphics card.
3. Fully uninstall all of your old drivers before you start
4. Install the Nvidia drivers directly from their website (the cd that came with the graphics card doesn't pick up the hardware and therefore won't install)
5. It goes without saying that you need to be really careful inserting the card in a place it's not supposed to go (I almost snapped off a motherboard component...)

If anybody has any questions on this let me know. Also, if my PC blows up in the next few weeks....I'll post a sorry message


----------



## egbakaet

I got 800mhz ram 2 gig dual channel with my xps410

Fast as HELL


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## sicksigma

My Dell 

E521 Amd x2 5600
2 gig 667 ram
prem vista
BFG 7900 gt/oc
Sb x-fi extreme sound card
Game of choice bf 2142 all settings on max no lag no issues

yes Dell is cheap and locked bios sucks but beating my friends bench mark when he spent $3700 is priceless

total cost $890 cnd


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## Compiler

Something is wrong with your friend's $3700 computer... OS, junkware, bad configuration, damage... etc.

Even an AMD X2 3800 with a GF8800GTS would be faster than the C2D e6600 that has a 7900 card.


----------



## pshred

Hello, I am new to this forum. I have a dell E520 and I am planning to get a new video card. Will the 8600GTS fit in?


----------



## Killazys

And I have alienware xD


----------



## roomie76

I am in the same predicament as many are with their E521 purchase. I would like to get a video that will maximize the performance of my PC but not either a) void my warranty or b) break the bank. Having said that here is where I am:

I looked at Tom's Hardware video card roundup dated 9/5/07 and found that I am pretty much looking at the 7950GT or the 8600GS or 8600GTS.
Link:http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/05/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page7.html

Problem is the review for the 7950GT was with 512MB and the 8600GTS was with 256MB. The 8600GTS has a new processor so I would rather go forward in technology than back but can I put in a 8600GTS in a stock E521. I have read most of the posts on this thread about the power supply so I am not sure if I am going to have to "upgrade" it. I'd rather not lose a 5.5" drive bay so if I had to upgrade the PSU, I would just replace it.

So if you had an E521 and you had a choice between the 7950 series and the 8600 series, which one would you choose?


----------



## Killazys

Is it true that Alienware got bought out by Dell?


----------



## CCjon

To Killazys
Of course.Google it.It's all over the net.

To roomie76
There isn't a big difference performance(to me) and size wise between the two cards but the 8600GTS
has the advantage of being a DX10 and newer card so i would suggest u buy this one


----------



## Compiler

Dell bought Alienware, yes. HP bought out VoodooPC.

Romie76: 7950GT = faster than 8600gt/gts. You should replace the weak 305watt PSU with a 400~500watt unit from a good company... and force it to fit.


----------



## The_Oracle

> 7950GT = faster than 8600gt/gts


LOL ... i had a 7950GT before my actual 8600GTS. the 8600gts is blowing the 7950gt right outta the water ... at least 20% better performance on ANY test i ran (3dMark06, F.E.A.R., Stalker, Far Cry)


----------



## 07clarkm

Read first couple of posts and all I can say is for all the people saying that the first post is wrong.

It isn't.

It is dead right.

Dell and Norton should be illegal.


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## Compiler

Did you update drivers on the 7950GT? In all reviews, the 8600 series is a bit faster than the 7600series... and they all kinda blow chunks next to the 8800GTS which is about $50~75more.

3DMark06: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=710&model2=854&chart=311

Prey: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=710&model2=854&chart=302
(7950Gt = 30% faster)

Battlefield 2142: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=710&model2=854&chart=278

Sigh... I do need to start saving for an 8700 or 8900 type card soon


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## The_Oracle

the 8600gt ain't worth the money. however, the 8600gts is a pretty good deal and you're DX10 ready, while the 7950gt represents yesterday's technology


----------



## slader

I was able to fit the 8800gts in my e521, all you need to do is upgrade your power supply to 400w, and add a fan on the back of the pc, and cut away a portion of the cooling hood that you need clearance for the card, dont remove it, just get tin snips and cut out what you need to get it in. it took me a total of 2 hours to do but it fits nice, and I have been running it for 3 months without a problem, works great!


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## slader

Sorry about the double post but hey I&#8217;m sure people want to know it can be done if there not too concerned over the warranty, but since I bought my e521 O.B. for $220 Im not too concerned about it. Now just to inform people I do not know a heck of a lot about computers, but I do have a tool and die engineering degree. This helps to know about design of products and what you can get away with. 


Ok so I don&#8217;t have any pics, but I&#8217;ll explain how I did it. I recommend not attempting this if you don&#8217;t feel competent enough to do it! It is good to have some sort of mechanical background to do this.

What you need: tin snips, and needle nose pliers

So to fit the card in what you need to do is clip the bottom row of aluminum fins of the small heat sink about half of the original size.

You also need to cut a little section where the card gets fastened to the case on the back, it doesn&#8217;t take much but you will need the clearance because the hole is a little too short.

The plate on the vid. card has two sections a (double slot) one which dose not allow the card to go in because there is a rivet on the case that stops it from going in snug, to fasten it to the back of the pc. Simply take your tin snips and cut the one fin off of the plate. This will allow clearance in this aria.

The only other thing stopping you from physically getting the card in is the cooling hood. I suggest to lay the card in beside where it needs to go and scribe an outline of the card onto the cooling hood for the aria that you&#8217;re going to remove. Unscrew the 4 screws and remove carefully, the heat sink that the hood is attached to has some sort of soft epoxy on it so go slow when taking it off. Unscrew the heat sink from the cooling hood, only 2 screws, then cut out the line you scribed on earlier, again take your time it is a brittle plastic.

The cooling hood itself is attached directly to the motherboard, it has 4 screws. The front section has spring loaded screws, and the back works on a hinge. Completely remove the hinge and toss it. This hinge interferes with the card, and you cop off part of the hood that attaches to the hinge anyways. Now before I did this I made sure that it was supported enough with the front screws, and it was. They give ample tension to the hood for the heat sink.

Again you will need to replace the power supply. The card recommends having a 400w power supply. Make sure and measure the dimensions of the dell 305w power supply, to make sure the new one has the same dimensions

Put the cooling hood back on and it will now fit like a glove. I will admit this is a lot to go threw, but again I saved a heck of a lot of money. On upgrading vs. brand new!


The total I&#8217;ve spent is $750 on this pc, this includes:

The pc itself
4 gigs of kingston ram (boxing day sale 30 dollars a piece) 
400w power supply
8800 GTS
and used a 500 gig hard drive out of my old pc, bringing the total up to 800 gigs.


----------



## thebeginner

I don't know what you're talking about. At Christmans time I bought a dell Inspiron for $800 that included a flat screen monitor, 2 GB duel channel ram, 320 GB harddrive, and 2.4 GHz. duel core. In fact any computer guru will tell you that intel is faster than AMD and mines intel. I heard from a guy that builds and maintanes computers that Gateway and Dell are the most expandable. The other prands require parts from their own companies. In other words Hewla Packard requires Hewla Packard parts.


----------



## thebeginner

The_Oracle said:


> with a Core2 Extreme QX6700 CPU??? a GeForce 8800GTX graphics card ??? 160 GB WD Raptor hard drives??? even at the cheapest place you wouldn't get just these 3 components for $1600 ... let alone the 24" display
> 
> FYI, the same machine from HP comes at $7194.61 ... umm not exactly the same, you can't even get intel quadcore CPUs with HP's voodoo series, AMD 6000+ x2 is what you get (this CPU is certainly no match for intel's powerhouse) and only one 160 GB raptor included in the price.


When I bought my computer I did the research and Dell had the best price of any. Above Costco, Best Buy, and any other computer store including Hewla Packard. In case you want too know I was seeing computers with 2 GB single channel ram, but they had 1.8 GH duel core. Mine has a 2.4 GH duel core. No comparison. The computers from the stores either have good ram and junk speed or good ram and junk harddrive and speed. Mine from dell is good in all areas.


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## slader

I bought it open box for $220 from a company that couldent use it because vista woulden't run the software they needed to use, they sold off 30 of them. Just the pc alone


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## thebeginner

One of the reasons I'm sticking with Dell and Gateway is becasue my uncle bought a Hewla Packade and the Windows Vista kept requiring a product key of all stupid things, but mine never asked for one. They had placed the disk somewhere so I didn't have access to it and the product key wasn't on the computer case. I'm sticking with Dell and Gateway.


----------



## Compiler

thebeginner said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. In fact any computer guru will tell you that intel is faster than AMD and mines intel. I heard from a guy that builds and maintanes computers that Gateway and Dell are the most expandable. The other prands require parts from their own companies. In other words Hewla Packard requires Hewla Packard parts.


Heard... well, that is his opinion. But my experince and as those of many others here, Dells tend to be difficult to expand... the newer Silver models are an improvement. But the older ones were more difficult... and before PCIe - most didn't have AGP slots. = very NON-expandable.

HP hasn't required parts to add a graphics card... and have been more standardized for over 5 years. Now if you're talking about their servers and such, than anything can be specialized for Dell/HP/Compaq because of the various requirements.

Er... any GURU who says that intel is faster than AMD is a moron, is not a guru, just a fanboy. There are specific models of both brands... some AMD are faster than some Intel CPUs, and until about 18 months ago, intel had nothing but hot-running low performance yet very expensive CPUs.

HP's product key is on the case somewhere... but I never heard of "Hewla Packade"...

Oh, and typical Dells use standard performance memory and once you start upgrading them feature list to match an HP, Dells easily gets more expensive... $100 to ADD only a GB of RAM for a total of 2GB? (When you can buy 800mhz 2Gb DDR2 for $40) or a basic 250GB > 500Gb = $100, when I buy them for $100 off the shelf at stores. $150 for a $100 video card. $30 to upgrade from a CD-R drive to a DVD-R drive.... So as of today, a Dell 2160 CPU system is about $590 (wow, after $100 instant savings) compared to a Best Buy price of $460 for a Compaq with same feature set. Oh and you don't have to wait 2-4 weeks for delivery!!


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## thebeginner

Little kid. my computer has 2.4 GH duel core. In case you want to know intel is the chips that are picked off of the line the perform the best. AMD are the normal chips. What I heard wasn't opinion. The minum optical drive Dell offers is a CD/DVD rewriter. You obviously don't demand very high performance. What kind of software do you use and I'll see. Further more I did the research and compared the computers myself. Oh and I forgot. I had free 2 business day delivery. You know nothing. You didn't read my post. I said they didn't know where the disk case was and that I looked on the computer tower. What brains. Those computers for $460 have 1.8 GH. processors with 512 or 1 GB single channel ram. Mine over powers that by a long shot. Actually the starting price of a dell 1.8 GH duel core with 1 GB ram and 320 GB ram is $360. I visit dell quite a bit, so I know thier prices. That's not counting a monitor though. Oh, and one more thing. The guy I'm refering to has worked with computers for like 20 years. He's maintaned 90 computers in the front office of a steal buildng company for years. What are your qualifications? I never said they were easy to expand. This guy actually builds his own, but he recommended Dell and Gateway and Dell had the best price and the best balance between performance.


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## Compiler

More than yours. 

There's more than enough idiots who have worked in the computer field for 20+ years that shouldn't come anywhere near a computer with a screwdriver.

You don't even know what kind of computer you have, nor the terminology or technology to know the difference. What is a GH? And you're CPU is fighting itself?

BTW: I just did the price check on that post above of a new DELL built to specs of an HP at Best Buy... so the prices are current. You buy so many Dells, eh? Do you need help in understanding how to build a computer on dell.com? I did say in ENGLISH the stats for the build. e2160 CPU, 2GB, DVD-RW - but the HP comes with a 360GB HD while the Dell is a 320GB, media reader, modem and Vista Premium.


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## JohnWill

Any reason you guys revived this old post to argue the point further?


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## slader

JohnWill...

Yep. Pretty much. I wasn&#8217;t aware I was breaking any forum rules by doing so.... In other words if I have something to say or add on any topic I see fit, I can do so. I was just reassuring people that have the e521 that the procedure can be done, and how they can do it if they wanted too. If you have a problem with it, there is a very simple solution. Ignore the post! I am sure that anyone that has this PC would find it interesting, and reassuring that they can do something the TC said couldn&#8217;t be done.


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## Killazys

EWWW DELL

Haha.


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## Compiler

For a basic PC, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with a Dell... (other than the BTX and high end versions with non-standard parts).

Just get the best deal at WalMart and enjoy.


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## Killazys

Problem is, I'm a gamer...


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## leafblower29

About that x1950 tutorial on the dell e521

here is a great ATi 3870 that will only require the new CD drive bay psu and only takes up one slot! cheap too

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3747342&CatId=2349


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