# Mac or not?



## firedguy (Oct 27, 2008)

i love the mac operating system, the standard programs that come with a mac and all that. i am considering buying a mac but have heard terrible things about apple's customer service. is all that true? is a mac worth the cost? secondly, is there anything negative about buying a mac, is there anything major that they are incapable of? thanks in advance!
-Firedguy


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## hulkinator (May 4, 2009)

I'll bet this thread will get a lot of replies very quickly. 

Windows and Mac each have their advantages. Windows machines are cheaper because there are many, many manufacturers of the hardware competing for sales, while Apple has not licensed the technology out to other companies, so they can maintain a higher price. That said, I've heard Apple hardware is pretty solid.

People generally like Apples for graphics and presentational things. Windows, however, has far more software (free and not free) available for it, and its hardware compatibility is better. If you were to go buy a random piece of hardware, chances are there _will_ be a Windows driver, but your chances are slimmer that it is Mac-compatible.

I cannot speak for Apple's customer service. I've been a Windows user my whole life and haven't regretted it.

Justifying the cost is up to you. I like being able to get twice the hardware for my money with a Windows computer, but if you find things with Macs that can justify the cost- go right ahead!


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

hulkinator said:


> I'll bet this thread will get a lot of replies very quickly.


Prob'ly so. With any luck, most of the info given will be accurate, or at least won't be horribly inaccurate. That said, I feel the need to correct a few minor points here.



hulkinator said:


> Windows and Mac each have their advantages. Windows machines are cheaper because there are many, many manufacturers of the hardware competing for sales, while Apple has not licensed the technology out to other companies, so they can maintain a higher price. That said, I've heard Apple hardware is pretty solid.


Well said.



hulkinator said:


> People generally like Apples for graphics and presentational things.


Don't forget audio, music, and video (unless that's what you had in mind with "presentational things").



hulkinator said:


> Windows, however, has far more software (free and not free) available for it...


All Macs made in the past several years can natively run Windows. Provided you have a copy of Windows XP (or newer), you have access to everything available for Windows *plus* everything available for Mac.

There is a downside to having piles and piles of software out there, however: a lot of it is complete crap. For the most part, if it's made for the Mac it's going to be pretty good quality stuff.



hulkinator said:


> ...and its hardware compatibility is better. If you were to go buy a random piece of hardware, chances are there _will_ be a Windows driver, but your chances are slimmer that it is Mac-compatible.


I'm sure there is some piece of hardware out there that just _cannot_ be made to work with the Mac OS. So, as above, just boot up Windows, and Bob's your uncle.



hulkinator said:


> I cannot speak for Apple's customer service. I've been a Windows user my whole life and haven't regretted it.


I have _never_ had an issue with Apple's customer service, at _any_ level. And I've been using Macs (and Windows machines) for over 25 years.



hulkinator said:


> Justifying the cost is up to you. I like being able to get twice the hardware for my money with a Windows computer, but if you find things with Macs that can justify the cost- go right ahead!


See above.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Just as an update, I found a piece of hardware with no Mac support--my Magellan Roadmate GPS device. No worries. Booted into Windows, downloaded the updater I sought, and was off and running.


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## hulkinator (May 4, 2009)

> All Macs made in the past several years can natively run Windows. Provided you have a copy of Windows XP (or newer), you have access to everything available for Windows *plus* everything available for Mac.
> 
> There is a downside to having piles and piles of software out there, however: a lot of it is complete crap. For the most part, if it's made for the Mac it's going to be pretty good quality stuff.


I totally forgot about that. Keep those points in mind, too! Especially the second one- most Mac software is pretty well-constructed so adding it to your system is unlikely to cause problems. With Windows, though, you have to be much more critical of what you install and must be ready to troubleshoot. Don't get me wrong, if you are careful you can have a very happy and stable Windows machine, but it takes more work than with Macs.

Also consider that Macs tend to be more secure. AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong, Vegas, you really seem to know your stuff ) it's not impossible to get a virus on an Apple, it's just that there's no point as a malware writer to find vulnerabilities in the OS with a rather small user base. Why infect 5% of the computers in the world when you can go for 95%? (estimated numbers used).


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

hulkinator said:


> I totally forgot about that. Keep those points in mind, too! Especially the second one- most Mac software is pretty well-constructed so adding it to your system is unlikely to cause problems. With Windows, though, you have to be much more critical of what you install and must be ready to troubleshoot. Don't get me wrong, if you are careful you can have a very happy and stable Windows machine, but it takes more work than with Macs.


I cannot disagree with any of this.



hulkinator said:


> Also consider that Macs tend to be more secure. AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong, Vegas, you really seem to know your stuff ) it's not impossible to get a virus on an Apple, it's just that there's no point as a malware writer to find vulnerabilities in the OS with a rather small user base. Why infect 5% of the computers in the world when you can go for 95%? (estimated numbers used).


No, it's not impossible. But it's fairly unlikely. Still, there are free antivirus programs available for the Mac OS, such as ClamXAV. A bigger danger is from malwares such as malicious macros for the Office suite of programs. Sorry for the alliteration in that last sentence.


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## clavinova (Apr 12, 2007)

Hi, I am just back to Mac after 20 years of combat with windows. Bought a macbook laptop. Do you think I should download the Anti virus mentionned and would it slow the system? How should I maintain the laptop? I mean with Windows I used to CCleaner regularely, defragment etc...


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Mac is the way foward if you are not a gamer. It has MS office, and it is the best OS for media etc. More and more games are being released on mac, but it is just not up to the standard of windows at this stage. Try windows 7, it has a very distinct mac feel and the beta can be downloaded for free off the MS website. Id go mac if I had the cash, but thats just me.
James


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

I have been using Macs since 1990, and customer support has always been good (when I need it, which is very seldom). I have gone to the Genius Bar twice in the last year. Superb experience. I wish that every shopping and customer service was that good.

I have been Microsoft-free for a year in terms of software, and have not had any problems.


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## Rondiz (Jun 5, 2009)

I would much rather speak to someone in California and/or Texas then speaking to a Indian named Steve. (You know that's not his real name LoL)


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

I rang the "New Zealand" call center and they asked me if I was in Australia. LOL
(Microsoft)
Seriously, they would do better just to put an automated Microsoft Sam voice on the phone!
James


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## peck1234 (Aug 27, 2008)

Lets put it this way, my 1500 dollar pc eats up the most expensive Mac for breakfast...

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro?mco=MTE4MTU

Specs Below...

Really want a Mac? Buy a pc and put the {expletive deleted} operating system on it! Save your self 1000 bucks!


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

"Really want a Mac? Buy a pc and put the operating system on it! Save your self 1000 bucks!"


The only time Windows can run OS X is by doing it illegally.
The reason is because there is no cross platform for windows like
there is for OS X. Like some hackintosh thing and if your willing
to take the chance of hurting your computer, then that's your choice.

I have work with mac as well for awhile and like the ease and flow
of its OS. The problem is I feel it is just too simple and I'm held back.
Also they are beautiful looking computer but I don't feel one gets their
moneys worth. Beauty V. Performance, I'll side with performance thanks.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Read the rules, you are not allowed to discuss illegal things on this forum.

Im pretty sure, however, that if you posses a license to use mac, you can install it by making use of a linux live disk and partition manager. I found a guide to do this, but it has since been removed from the net. This guide states that if you have a lisence you can do it. It did, however, get very hard to manage and included complex linux terminal commands. Only take it on if you know linux well!
James


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

There is probably a legal way of doing and it is more on the difficult side and probably not worth the majority of people's time.


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## Lone Stranger (Jan 15, 2008)

Alkison said:


> There is probably a legal way of doing and it is more on the difficult side and probably not worth the majority of people's time.


[RANT]No there is not a legal way of installing MacOS on a non-Apple branded computer. If someone wants to run that OS then cough up the beans to buy an Apple. If you read the labelling on the disc, there is an End User License Agreement that prohibits installation on a PC.

Sheesh peoples..... READ THE FORUM RULES before posting.
[/RANT]


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

Actually I was the one saying not to do it because it's illegal, so don't tell me to read the rules, I'm not telling anyone to engage in any sort of act. Also there probably is a legal way of doing for experimental purposes under permission of both companies. That is why I was saying it is not efficient and you should not waist your time trying. Read my first comment then you'll see what I'm actually saying.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Lone Stranger, there are many ways that "could" be considered legal, however these may bend the rules of the lisence a little bit.

Also, if you are going to go for windows, windows 7 has a distinctly mac feel about the desktop. It does have the origional windows start bar etc, but you can pin things to the dock like you can in mac! Also, it seems to run a lot faster than vista AND xp. Its great!
James


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

If the solution is to have both operating systems, then buy a Mac, install VM Fusion or Parallels and install Windows. It will operate just like any other Mac application, with drag and drop between the operating systems.


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## pyritechips (Jun 3, 2002)

Lone Stranger said:


> [RANT]No there is not a legal way of installing MacOS on a non-Apple branded computer. If someone wants to run that OS then cough up the beans to buy an Apple. If you read the labelling on the disc, there is an End User License Agreement that prohibits installation on a PC.
> 
> Sheesh peoples..... READ THE FORUM RULES before posting.
> [/RANT]


Agreed. Any further mention of illegal activities in this thread will get it shut down.


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

Wait I don't understand.
You still can't talk about illegal things if you are trying to prevent them.
Or just being honest about them and saying it is not good.

Like you need to help some people understand.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

The rules say that you can still discuss illegal things, it just states that you may not give advice or encourage them. Could you please clarify what this means, because im in the same boat as Alkinson. If we have breached the rules in any way, I apologise.
James


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes, I agree, please inform us.


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## pyritechips (Jun 3, 2002)

Just don't encourage anybody to do it. Nobody has crossed the line yet but please be careful. It was peck1234 that suggested installing the Mac OS on a PC. I also deleted an expletive from his post. This site is PG-13 so let's keep the language clean.


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## Cookiegal (Aug 27, 2003)

gatewaypc700 said:


> The rules say that you can still discuss illegal things, it just states that you may not give advice or encourage them. Could you please clarify what this means, because im in the same boat as Alkinson. If we have breached the rules in any way, I apologise.
> James


Really? Please send me a PM with a quote where it says that. Of course illegal activities can be discussed in certain contexts.


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

Okay, thanks I understand now.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Yes, thank you.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Cookiegal, i will apologise. I had a good read of the rules a while ago and from memory there was a statement such as the one I suggested. I will admit to not reading the rules again before posting that, as I thought my memory was sufficient. It obviously wasn't.
With all my respect
James


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Mac or PC? (Personal Computer?)


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

RootbeaR said:


> Mac or PC? (Personal Computer?)


I think everyone understands that PC stands for Personal Computer and that would mean Masc are PC's as well, but PC just has adapted to the computer culture as a windows based computer. So I think everyone understands its orginal roots, but just knows that today it means from microsoft.


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## Cookiegal (Aug 27, 2003)

gatewaypc700 said:


> Cookiegal, i will apologise. I had a good read of the rules a while ago and from memory there was a statement such as the one I suggested. I will admit to not reading the rules again before posting that, as I thought my memory was sufficient. It obviously wasn't.
> With all my respect
> James


No problem, apology accepted. You might also want to check out this thread as it will affect you. Just a heads up.


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

Cookiegal said:


> No problem, apology accepted. You might also want to check out this thread as it will affect you. Just a heads up.


Wait, how does it affect him, did he violate anything? Just curious, I have only been a member her for about week or so and I just want to get the basics down.


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## Cookiegal (Aug 27, 2003)

Alkison said:


> Wait, how does it affect him, did he violate anything? Just curious, I have only been a member her for about week or so and I just want to get the basics down.


Sorry, I forgot to include the link to the thread I was referring to, which is self-explanatory. 

http://forums.techguy.org/announcements/834244-new-signature-limitations.html


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Alkison said:


> I think everyone understands that PC stands for Personal Computer and that would mean Masc are PC's as well, but PC just has adapted to the computer culture as a windows based computer. So I think everyone understands its orginal roots, but just knows that today it means from microsoft.


My PC runs Linux.


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

RootbeaR said:


> My PC runs Linux.


Okay, fair, what I meant is PC equals non Mac.


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Alkison said:


> Okay, fair, what I meant is PC equals non Mac.


And I was just posting the pic because it "struck" me as funny at the time.


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## Alkison (Jun 5, 2009)

RootbeaR said:


> And I was just posting the pic because it "struck" me as funny at the time.


Haha, yeah it was pretty funny.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Sorry, I have changed my signature.


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## Cookiegal (Aug 27, 2003)

gatewaypc700 said:


> Sorry, I have changed my signature.


Thanks.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Well, I'll be... Something actually _useful_ from a "Mac or PC" thread! Thanks! I would have otherwise been in violation of the policy.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Lol


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Windows
Pros
Good bang for the buck
Endless software
Stable enough

Cons
Infections
If you dont partake in risky files or website....windows is awesome
you will get hit somewhere sometime..count on it....its called windows because it has a big hole in it...JK

Apple.......nice
Expensive
and usually still a need to have windows from time to time.

Conclusion............if have deep pockets go for a mac....it will be a very nice toy.
The real workhorse however is windows.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Sounds to me like Linux is a nice medium.
All we need now is native linux games.
James


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

brett888 said:


> The real workhorse however is windows.


Which I run with ease on my Mac.

Of course, the only time I have any need to do that is when I want a flight sim. I can do _everything else_ that I need to do from the Mac OS.

:shrug:


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

VegasACF said:


> Which I run with ease on my Mac.
> 
> Of course, the only time I have any need to do that is when I want a flight sim. I can do _everything else_ that I need to do from the Mac OS.
> 
> :shrug:


I still might get me a mac mini yet...i have 3 windows machines.
When you set a mac up to run windows and apple is this a dual boot setup?
I got plenty of xp cds around.
Can i use a regular monitor? with the mini


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

They have converters, which are pretty small, for monitor adaptation as I recall.


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## gatewaypc700 (Oct 17, 2008)

Yes, but for VGA you cannot go straight from mini DVI, you need two converters. That is not small!


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

brett888 said:


> I still might get me a mac mini yet...i have 3 windows machines.
> When you set a mac up to run windows and apple is this a dual boot setup?
> I got plenty of xp cds around.


If you use Bootcamp then it will be boot from Windows OR Mac; to switch you would need to reboot. If you use VM Fusion or Parallels, then Windows will run just like any other application in its own window within the Mac environment, and hence no need to reboot; and you can drag and drop between Windows and Mac areas.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

exegete said:


> If you use Bootcamp then it will be boot from Windows OR Mac; to switch you would need to reboot. If you use VM Fusion or Parallels, then Windows will run just like any other application in its own window within the Mac environment, and hence no need to reboot; and you can drag and drop between Windows and Mac areas.


Thanks,that is exactly what i wanted to know.:up:


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