# Water Powered Car



## n2gun

http://tiarazcars.blogspot.com/2008/06/japanese-water-powered-car.html

I can see stopping at a store for bottles of water


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## Sarowaz

Hey that's pretty nifty! Cheaper than oil.


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## Braydenmartindal

Note the narrartor says hydrogen not water


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## Elvandil

What a pile that is. Nothing can run on water. And if you look at the so-called "energy generator" in the back seat, it has a cooling fan on the side--an electric cooling fan. Sure, I believe that the car needs to be filled with water, but there then has to be some other energy source to electrolyze the water to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen, and that is a process that is far from energy-free.

The fact is that water contains less free energy than hydrogen and oxygen so energy must be added for them to become separate entities. That same energy is released when they combine back to water to produce energy. The thing needs a charger, solar cells, or something for energy input, and the energy from the water, due to efficiency losses, will never be as great as the amount put in by the charger. That is just simple thermodynamics, and that video is seriously misleading.

Even in scenarios where bacteria use enzymatic processes to break down the water, the process is not "free". The bacteria need to eat and anything they use for an energy source needs to be put in. Not even bacteria can make something out of nothing.


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## Braydenmartindal

Thats why in the US and very few in canada theyres hydrogen refilling stations not many but at least they have some I supose check out the honda FSX that runs on hydrogen its much more interesting then this one


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## Elvandil

Braydenmartindal said:


> Thats why in the US and very few in canada theyres hydrogen refilling stations not many but at least they have some I supose check out the honda FSX that runs on hydrogen its much more interesting then this one


That so-called "water car" is going to need a lot of cleaning. Can you imagine all the crap that will be in it after lime, tea, and all the other junk that is in the water starts to accumulate in the thing?


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## Braydenmartindal

Tell me about it and think about how You get the so called 'Just normal water" into the car take a garden hose and let it sit for a few hours I supose or spend hundreds of dollars on bottled water  who wants a noisy energy sucking machine in the back seat of a car thats already small that would probaly take hours or days to get the energy to power the car but I suppose its what we expect froma prototype ................ From Japan


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## JohnWill

I like the "Energy Conversion Module" that was glossed over, that's where the real problems occur with this idea.  As mentioned, there's some serious energy required to convert the water into hydrogen!


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## MikeSwim07

That is definitely not the answer to the energy crisis...


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## Elvandil

JohnWill said:


> I like the "Energy Conversion Module" that was glossed over, that's where the real problems occur with this idea.  As mentioned, there's some serious energy required to convert the water into hydrogen!


The trouble is that probably 9 out of 10 people will believe this is true and that you and I are just slaves to some ancient, outmoded concept of energy conservation. After all, those ideas are from another century. When are you and I going to get with the program?

Somehow this all reminds me of an idiotic TV commercial where the guy says, "After all, gravity was just a hunch at one time." When exactly was that? Back in the days when everything was floating around and drifted off into space? Thank God that Sir Isaac thought of it, but if he hadn't we would have saved a fortune on shoes.


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## JohnWill

They're the same people that believe we'll solve all the energy issues using windmills and solar panels.  They're only one piece of the puzzle, and without Oil, nuclear, coal, etc., we'll still have the same issues. There really is one born every minute, I guess the scam artists depend on that.


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## Elvandil

I like the celebrities that think they are so "green" by building energy self-sufficient homes. The amount of environmental damage they are doing by building any home at all is almost inconceivable. From the 1000's of gallons of water used and the pounds of toxic solvents that come from making solar panels, to the waste products of the manufacture of the other housing materials.

If they bought an old, already-built house, they would do the least amount of damage to the planet.


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## CrazyComputerMan

I want one, Im becoming my room to eco-friendly


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## slurpee55

If you want to save energy, don't drive anything, don't heat or cool your house, don't bathe, don't wash - or even wear - clothes...oh, and eat all your food raw.


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## Elvandil

slurpee55 said:


> If you want to save energy, don't drive anything, don't heat or cool your house, don't bathe, don't wash - or even wear - clothes...oh, and eat all your food raw.


That is basically what it boils down to. Anything you do to expend energy, anything that increases the entropy of the universe. If the old Indian tradition of leaving a spot as much as possible as you found it were followed, we would have to give up everything. And who wants that?


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## JohnWill

I'll pass on that suggestion.


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## Braydenmartindal

I saw a commercial for the honda FSX I would buy it if theyre were more hydrogen refilling staions ...http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
Thats a good car yeah it dont look SOO great like I like the look of the prius better but this is nice too rear end looks messed up to me though


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## MikeSwim07

Until they can make these energy efficient cars cheaper, no one is going to buy them.


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## Braydenmartindal

MikeSwim07 said:


> Until they can make these energy efficient cars cheaper, no one is going to buy them.


 Well thats not going to happen unless you find them used , they're here to make money not loose it you gotta think about it how much doesnt i cost to make them ? They have to pay for the cars to be built and the jobs and shipping , and transports to carry them to the dealers yeah maye it costs VERY less for all the parts but then again your paying for it all not just the parts they gotta make money Now that I think about it , they cant be makeing much on the fact that they have to pay for everything else


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## Braydenmartindal

and yeah nobodys going to buy them when they arent for sale yet  coming in late summer 2008 or 09 i forgot wht the ad said one or the other


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## JohnWill

One thing that nobody considers with hydrogen powered cars is the energy that it takes to produce the hydrogen in the first place! There is no real efficiency gained, the energy is just used in a different location.


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## MikeSwim07

When it says Hydrogen powered cars, doesn't it mean that it takes the hydrogen out of the water?


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## Elvandil

MikeSwim07 said:


> When it says Hydrogen powered cars, doesn't it mean that it takes the hydrogen out of the water?


Yes, and that takes a lot of energy, usually electricity. That energy comes from somewhere. It means pollution in some form, and damage to the environment by building more power plants, nuclear or coal mostly.


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## slurpee55

We could use horses or mules to turn turbines to generate electricity to break the water into hydrogen and oxygen...hmm, not too practical for city living, is it?
Basically, the real problem is entropy - you can't get energy out of something without expending, in the long run, more energy to get the energy you use. The sun is our overall supplier of energy - everything else trickles down from it.
A Dyson sphere, anyone?


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## Elvandil

More efficient to ride the horses.


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## MikeSwim07

What about wind turbines?


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## Elvandil

MikeSwim07 said:


> What about wind turbines?


Wind and solar are good ideas. The trouble is that they don't really put out that much power. And you need a lot of them and a place to put them, and hopefully, constant wind. They can make up a percentage, but they will never be the entire solution.

Personally, I think the money is better spent harnessing energy from something totally reliable--the tides.


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## MikeSwim07

Where I live in Cleveland they are thinking about putting wind turbines in the great lakes, which has constant wind.


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## Braydenmartindal

Hydrogen Powered cars like the Honda FCX I mentioned , Runs on it you take it to a refilling station for Hydrogen lots in the california and British colombian Region (Canada and USA) its not one of those ****** energy sucking things that gets hydrogen out of the water in the car , In fact you cant put just pure water into this car , You will break it


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## Elvandil

That's the point. All hydrogen cars are "energy-sucking" because they still need hydrogen. That is produced somewhere else with all of its negative environmental results.


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## Braydenmartindal

I suppose but solar isnt much better imagine all the chemicals and fumes put into the air from the production but Hydrogen is better than what we use now isnt it ? So Im not complaining  Take alot of energy to produce normal fuels aswell and then its still bad for the enviroment because the cars will give off its fumes aswell but maybe to produce hydrogen its bad for the enviroment (unless they use clean ways to produce it ) but its giving off 0% emmisons form the car itself which makes up for the fact that it takes alot of energy In my opinion


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## Elvandil

It's a balancing act. Some types of pollution are worse than others, for sure. But all methods of making energy cause damage in some way.


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## the Banker

Scary to think what the water prices are going to be..


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## MikeSwim07

That is another thing I don't get, 

Why people waste money on bottled water. Tab water can't be that bad for you. People have been drinking that water for thousands of years.


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## Elvandil

Maybe, but only the rich and educated could afford to have running water in ancient Rome and the lead in the pipes may have killed them off, leaving the poor and the stupid to run things. So, I don't think time alone is a valid justification of tap water.

But analyses show that tap water in many places is excellent, and New York has some of the best in the world. Bottled water, on the other hand, is often just tap water put into bottles at the factory. When it does come from springs, it can have bacterial contamination or even benzene in the case of Perrier (or was it a different, expensive, Fench water?).


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## MikeSwim07

The problem I have with it is all that wasted plastic. Idiots these days can't even use the recycle bin.


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## win2kpro

There is a lot of difference in a hydrogen fuel cell, and a hydrogen generator.

While it is true that there are a lot of "scams" regarding hydrogen generators there is a lot of serious developement being done now on this technology. The technology is fairly simple and has been around for quite sometime. It is commonly referred to as Brown's gas (HHO) and building a hydrogen generator is relatively inexpensive (about $150-$200).

While there are quite a few "scams", there are units in use today that do work. HHO is used as a "hybrid" application with gasoline. I've been following the developement of this technology for the past 2 or 3 years and it may very well fill in a gap that will increase the mileage per gallon of gasoline used.

Some people who have built their HHO generators report an increase in mileage per gallon of gasoline used from 8-35%. I personally only know of one person who has built a HHO "bubbler" and installed it on a Ford 150 truck, but he has increased his mileage per gallon of gasoline used about 20%.

You can go to Youtube and type in HHO and see lots of videos (both "scams" and true)
videos of HHO units in use.

Although this site is not selling anything, the owner has probably done more R&D with HHO than anyone else that posts videos at Youtube. He has some interesting videos if you are interested in learning more about HHO.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ZeroFossilFuel


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## Elvandil

The fact remains that so-called "Brown's Gas" (which is really just a mixture of hydrogen gas and oxygen gas) is still produced by an energy-intensive electrolysis process. And the extreme explosive potential of such a mixture leads to the need for absorption into porous materials for transport, like dynamite. Producing the gas in an automobile requires electricity, and that is made from burning fuel.


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## JohnWill

Doesn't sound like an environment friendly option to me. [WEBQUOTE="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen"]*Production*

A pure stoichiometric mixture is most easily obtained by water electrolysis, which uses an electric current to dissociate the water molecules:

electrolysis: 2 H2O → 2 H2 + O2
combustion: 2 H2 + O2 → 2 H2O

The energy required to generate the oxyhydrogen always exceeds the energy released by combusting it. [/WEBQUOTE]


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## TTowner

I doubt the entire video. How can it just run on water with no external energy? And why does it so look like the Indian Reva?


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## JohnWill

Quite frankly, I'm 100% sure it's a fake. There is no way it runs strictly on water with no other power source, it's really that simple.


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## MikeSwim07

Busted!


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## JohnWill

MikeSwim07 said:


> Busted!


Afraid so.


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## Elvandil

Of course it is a fake. But things like this are also dangerous--fueling conspiracy theorists and making people invest money in this sort of ridiculous scheme.

If only we could watch this process from start to finish. What was happening in that place in the middle of the night?


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## BoDySNaTcHeRz

We all just need to go back to riding horse and carriage


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## MikeSwim07

Lol, then we will need a Poop Cleanup job.


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## CrazyComputerMan

Lmao!


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## new tech guy

Well here is a good question, i personally like the hydrogen idea IMO, but due to the fact that hydrogen is the most abundant recource in the universe and is just floating in space for the taking, why dont we just harvest it from there and put it in storage tanks which have a relay shuttle to go back and forth with the tanks which then can be delivered to the station? We have rockets and the technology to do such a thing. Heck, we could even make the thing computerized so its totally unmanned.

Also, just a question, how would we harvest water from ocean tide?


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## MikeSwim07

I think he means something like turbines like in dams.


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## JohnWill

I hope you're not serious about harvesting hydrogen in the manner you describe.


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## CrazyComputerMan

Can i have water powered car when i passed my driving tes.t 

THAT F***ing!!! qu.ick.link because sometimes when i type Quicklink appear on firefox and spolit my writing, It's so annoying!


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## Elvandil

JohnWill said:


> I hope you're not serious about harvesting hydrogen in the manner you describe.


We're talking a very long trip with a very large "collector" (something like a plow).


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## new tech guy

Yeah i realize that now . But im just stating, if we manufacture power in space somehow it would be good as the pollution from it never comes to earth, last i checked we dont have people living on mars.Also, could you elaborate your water theory elvandil?


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## JohnWill

CCM, please watch your language, you know the rules here by now!


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## Elvandil

new tech guy said:


> Yeah i realize that now . But im just stating, if we manufacture power in space somehow it would be good as the pollution from it never comes to earth, last i checked we dont have people living on mars.Also, could you elaborate your water theory elvandil?


I'm talking about the various ways they have developed for harnessing the power of tides, from long tubes that channel the water from the sea through huge pipes that then turn turbines, to the simpler ones that simply use the power of the changing water depths. But my reference was nothing about directly extracting power from water, but rather using the tidal forces to turn machinery. Nothing mysterious--just new applications of tried-and-true physics.


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## new tech guy

Oh ok, just wasnt sure how you would do that, but the problem is getting that power to remote areas that are far from oceans.


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## RootbeaR

I imagine insurance companies are backing this 110%. Think of the accidents here in Canada where water actually freezes in the winter. Guess we'll have to heat the roads. That shouldn't take too much energy.

Maybe that is why it isn't pushed too hard yet. They are waiting for global warming to heat the roads first!


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## Elvandil

new tech guy said:


> Oh ok, just wasnt sure how you would do that, but the problem is getting that power to remote areas that are far from oceans.


I don't see distribution as much of a problem. They have power in the remotest areas. And the power grid is already monolithic, so much so, in fact, that it sends a huge 60-cycle EMF wave into space from the whole country (and neighboring ones). There is some variation, of course. It is not always 60-cycles. Power companies slow it down during times of heavy use and then later turn it up to make sure that clocks and equipment timed by the 60-cycle pulse will behave correctly.


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## new tech guy

Hmm interesting fact there elvandil. I would assume then all along the shore we would have facilities that harvest this power, amplify it, then distribute it.


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## Elvandil

Amplify it?


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## new tech guy

Yeah you need voltage to move electricity dont ya?  .


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## JohnWill

Well, that's called a transformer, but it doesn't "amplify" the power, it just increases the voltage and decreases the current. It also introduces losses, not gains.


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## Elvandil

"Amplification" is a very commonly misunderstood word. In usual understanding, it takes a small amount of power or energy and turns it into a larger one. But amplification is fundamentally a switching phenomenon. An amplifier is a switch. A small voltage applied to a transistor's gate allows the flow of a larger amount of current, for example. Or the turning of a valve on a dam opens a gate that allows a large flow of water. In a sense, the movement of the hand in opening the valve was "amplified" to the much greater movement of the water. A small amount of energy appears to have been converted to a larger one. But as *JohnWill* said, there is no net gain to be had. The energy that results needs to have been there from the beginning, and with efficiency losses, there is a loss and no net gain at all by any form of "amplification".

Nothing would need to be done to power before transmitting it, though it may be increased in voltage (and thereby decreased in amperage) in order to facilitate its transmission over distances and pulsed or converted to AC for transformers.


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## slurpee55

2nd Law of Thermodynamics, eh? Nope, you can't break even....


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## JohnWill

Well, there's always that elusive perpetual motion machine...


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## slurpee55

Oh, I have one in my garage - run my whole house on it....


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## new tech guy

Would that be a hamster on a wheel, or a farm of them in your garage  .


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## slurpee55

mice....


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## Elvandil

This is what I mean about "tide" power:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/13/tech/cnettechnews/main4517051.shtml


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## slurpee55

Actually, I run on water (well, and food and alcohol) - does that qualify? I walk a lot....


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## new tech guy

Elvandil said:


> This is what I mean about "tide" power:
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/13/tech/cnettechnews/main4517051.shtml


I caught a statement about that on the news and realized it is what you meant .


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## Elvandil

slurpee55 said:


> Actually, I run on water (well, and food and alcohol) - does that qualify? I walk a lot....


Look at plants. They run on water, air, and light. And we call them "primitive". Right. The only thing more advanced would be to run on hope.


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