# House Floods



## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Hi All,

My home was built in the early 1970's.

The problem I have is that over time the rouads around my house have been built up. So now my home kinda sits in a "bowl".

The only protection we have against it flooding is we have built a levee around the house and also have to sump pumps in the ground. All though this does work fairly well, if it rains to much then it doesn't stop the house from flooding.

The house sits on a cement slab and the plumping is ran through the slab.

We don't have that much money to spend thousands of dollars so was just curious if any one had any suggestions?

Thanks


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

my first thought would be to raise the house and put it on top of a crawl space but you dont want to spend money.

you wont like this answer but i would move. you are dealing with an inevitable catastrophe. 

if you want to stay then buy flood insurance and keep stuff that is important up high. i do not think there is much of a preventative measure that would give you a solution and even at that you would need a generator that would come on automatically as when it storms you lose power sometimes


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

It's not that I don't want to spend money, it's that we don't have the money to spend lol.

Out of curiousity, could any one give a "rough" estimate as to what it might cost to do as suggested? "putting the house on a crawl space"

Yea we have flood insurance, which really isn't that bad. Cost a little over 500 a year.

The house has flooded at least 7 times that I know of since it was built lol.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

when was the house built and how big is it?

i assumed it was not a matter of want versus not having the money to do it.

$500 sounds about right for the insurance but check and confirm what the coverage is


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

The house was built in the early 70's. I would say around 72. Don't remember exactly. My wifes' parents built it themselves.

As far as square footage I don't remember. Its a 3 beedroom 1 bath with attacthed 2 car gaage.

Really not as big as it sounds lol.

What do you mean by " check and confirm what the coverage is"?

Do you mean make sure that it is in fact flood or do you mean to cheak and make sure what is covered on the policy?

As far as whats covered I'm not entirely sure but I do know that 2 years ago it flooded and the insurance paid us right at 40k


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

sounds like you had decent coverage. i was just cautioning to make sure what is covered as i dont know if all flood coverage is the same even though i think it is the FEDS that provide it?

so how much is the house worth? I am thinking that it would not be worth putting it on a crawl space unless you are so in love with the home you would never move. I am not a builder so I would be guessing which i would not want to do. so it might be easier for you indicate what is the amount you would be willing to pay. 

I would think you might want to look into what the consequences of having more than one claim in a time period. if this place flooded 7 times already and you had a claim 2 years ago i am suprised you would get renewed coverage for only $500


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

It surprised me as well that we got renewed coverage at that price lol.

Yes, all flood insurance is mandated by the gov'.

We haven't had realitor or apprasier look at the home so I really can't say what it is worth.

Persoanlly, i would have to say around 60k. But then again, I have never looked into buying a home or anything else. Have always lived in apartments lol.

I would almost be willing to pay whatever if there was a way to stop the flooding. Provided of course we have the money to do that.

I wouldn't rule out moving but at this point no. I love the area we are in. Private community with dirt roads, 6 miles from the nearest town and 17 miles from nearest town with beer (thats the draw back lol).


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

I am afraid it may cost about one third to half the value of your home to put it on a crawl space.

unless you have friends or there is a creative way to raise it. but that is based on things around where i live.

around where i live the little 900 Sq. ft. house i bought in 1977 for $32,000 is now worth about $175,000 so it is hard for me to judge values elsewhere. And that was not in the expensive area around here either.

i was going to put an addition on the house back around 1983 and the cost would have been about $32,000 which i could not justify at the time. I never thought i would get the money back out of it if i sold it but there have been some improvements on other homes and values did not plateau

it just depends upon what you have going on around you


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Thanks for the info.

Another than raising the house onto a crawl space though there really isn't much else that could be done huh?

ya we really need to have it appraised and all. Right now we are finishing paying off the mortgage and when we get that done in about another 2 years then we will have he home put into our names so will probably have it done then.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

texastoy4her said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Another than raising the house onto a crawl space though there really isn't much else that could be done huh?


I doubt there is much that can be done but if you take some pictures of around the house i can always take a look and give you my thoughts.

I am a contractor but this is not my expertise but i am guessing that berms and sump pumps which have already been done are about it beyond raising the house


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

K. I'll take them tomorrow and post then as it is already dark here lol


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

get your square footage while you are at it too.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

hmmmm ok...how would I go about doing this? lol.

We might have some insurance papers around..somewhere. But will have to look and see.

Or we you saying to get it another way? Such as measuring myself?


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

just measure the length of the house and multiply it by the depth. assuming it is a square or a rectangle and that gives total square footage. 

or you could measure lineal footage and tell that to a contractor to get a rough idea


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

The most economical thing is probably a french drain system. The price will vary depending on the contractor. It is not a hard thing to do technically, but it is somewhat labor intensive. I don't think you are going to find a contactor that would even attempt to change a house built using "slab on grade" to a crawl space arrangement. The engineering cost alone would be out of sight.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

kilowatt1 said:


> The most economical thing is probably a french drain system. The price will vary depending on the contractor. It is not a hard thing to do technically, but it is somewhat labor intensive. I don't think you are going to find a contactor that would even attempt to change a house built using "slab on grade" to a crawl space arrangement. The engineering cost alone would be out of sight.


The only practical way to put it on a slab is not much of an engineering challenge. You move the house, install footings, install the crawl space, then move the house back. Very expensive on its own.

I was assuming the slab would not be sufficient to support a crawl space.

IMO If this house has had 7 floods and the last one the existing levee and sump pump protection did not prevent then french drains would be a waste. The amount of money would be better spent toward raising the house if one was so enthralled with the home and location they did not want to move. Unless you want to do the work yourself and it is a lot of work.

Another thing. don't assume you will no longer need flood insurance. It is in a flood plain and the only way to get around flood insurance would be to raise it above the 300 year flood plain probably and trying to document and get approval would be a nightmare.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

With a French Drain System, the would would need somewhere to run off to right?

Well that in itself still creates another problem. The ditches and roads where I am are not that good. Drainage is very poor.

We can't get the county to come in and fix it cause it is a private community and the "board" won't dissolve. Some of out here are actually in the proccess of tryin to get this done.

So with this in mind by best bet would be to probably move huh? lol


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## blues_harp28 (Jan 9, 2005)

Hi Id check out some professional drainage companies.. building contrators in your area.
Getting their advice and quotations will at least let you know where you stand in regards to cost and feasibility.
As much and as many quotes you can get...most estimates should be free.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi texastoy4her,

I suggest you improve the levees as best you can,
have one-way flaps fitted to all of your out going drainage,
have your roof drainpipes fed to outside your levee area,
get two or three small electrical sump pumps fitted discretely
to suitable places externally around your home, and get one of
those small engine driven pumps on a little trolley, which you
could keep maybe in a shed, just in case it gets really bad or
the power fails.

Installing a 'French drain' would most probably make matters worse,
as i am thinking that your house sits in an area marginally lower
than its surroundings, with the result that rainwater naturally finds
its way toward your house. Mostly this may not matter but as you have
mentioned, if it rains a lot, or for a long time, then you are going
to get water trying to get in.

Could you post back with some more information about the local area,
Is there somewhere near to you that that is at a lower level than
your house? 
If the roads have been 'built up' over the years, such that your house
is now substatially lower than the roads, what about the area on the
other side of the road? has that been heightened too, or is that still
as low as your house?

Do you have a drive that allows run-off to flow freely toward your house?_

Quote:
With a French Drain System, the would would need somewhere to run off to right?
_

I take it you mean 'the water would need somewhere to run off ...'

Well if you can find somewhere that would work, but i think that
Kilowatt probably meant a few french drain runs around your property,
leading to a sunken pump on your property, which could then pump out
to outside your levee arrangements.

I agree with Blues Harp, get some professional advice, it may not be
that bad, or there might be a solution that you haven't noticed.

I have a small low area on my property, i usually use a pump if it
gets too wet, but i am looking for some sort of 'prevention' but so
far i haven't come up with anything.

Best of luck with it, John


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

john1 said:


> Hi texastoy4her,
> 
> I suggest you improve the levees as best you can,
> have one-way flaps fitted to all of your out going drainage,
> ...


Yes, that is what I was asking about the French Drain. IE: the water needing some place to run off.

No, The area across the road directly in front of the house has not been built up, but, it is still higher. It's naturally higher than the surrounding area. he area behind and to the right of the house is about the same as the house. Low lying.

The area to the right of the house is also like this, but slightly lower inside the levee. Which is where we have 1 of the pumps situated. With the pumps, we dug out a hole, place a bucket inside. The top of the bucket is just below being even with the ground that way the water will run into it. Then have the pump inside the bucket. We then have a house hooked to the pump that runs up top into a PVC pipe that is ran through the levee. Not over, but through.

The whole area around here has really bad drainage. Simply from the board not keeping up with proper maintenance. Also, there is only 1 road leading into our community and the slope of the ground coming into our area, slopes down toward our area. There is a creek about 1/2 mile away but like i said the drainage here is so bad that its hard to get the water to the creek to drain properly.


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## Flags (Sep 9, 2001)

tex: Since your town/county/state, built the roads up without considering flooding your property, I would contact the responsible party and see if they will help you.
If you don't get any help, then contact a lawyer. 
What they did to you is inexcusable. They got away with it, because you didn't *****, so start *****ing now.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Ya but it wasn't the county or state that done it. Where I live is a private community with dirt roads. the county or state isn't even allowed to come out here. The "board" out here is responsible for the roads and all.

Which is 1 of the reasons we quit paying our dues out here. They have made it so bad that the ditches don't drain properly which contributes to the house flooding.

Do you think contacting a lawyer would help in this situation?


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

texastoy4her said:


> Do you think contacting a lawyer would help in this situation?


Not unless he/she has a big shovel and a lot of concrete, lumber and pipe 

Your best bet is to pack up and move. the time and money spent doing anythng including suing is not going to solve your problem. IMO


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi texastoy4her,

I get the impression from your later posts that you are not alone in
the drainage problems.
Also you mentioned that there is a small creek about a half a mile
away that the ditches are supposed to drain into.

Maybe you could go along the ditch that serves your area, and help it
here and there, maybe with a stick or maybe by removing blockages.
Others could help to if they are affected like yourself.
Half a mile is not such a terribly long way.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=define:ditch&btnG=Search

There might be places where the ditch goes into pipework to pass
peoples driveways, or that sort of thing.
If these places are blocked that could be a problem, but if it were
me, i would give it a good shot.
I would not think that the neighbours would object to you getting the
ditch moving, especially if you explain that the lack of drainage is
affecting your property.

I realise this may not be something that you consider to be your
responsibility, or even something you want to do, but i would think
my first duty is to my home, and if others are affected they may help.

On a side note here,
I have a low area by my front door which often gets waterlogged, to a
depth of a couple of inches, and during prolonged rainfall it can get
to six inches or more. I have to pump it out sometimes. This area is
actually five or six inches below the road surface in front of my
house, and a bit below the level of my front garden.
As my neighbours have already mentioned that they will be moving on
in a year or two, i intend to arrange with them some sort of 'channel'
to go via their property, to hopefully drain the area by my front door.
This may need to pass through the next property too, one way or another
i intend to drain my problem away.
It is particularly annoying as my house is built on a gentle slope,
and finding somewhere to drain to should not be a problem, but maybe
the builders levelled this area off, and in doing so they must have
gone a bit too far, cos this level area of about five or six houses is
all a bit below ground level. 
So as i look out the front, the ground slopes down and away except for
my immediate frontage and the road which is pretty much the same level.
My path by my front door is a few inches lower than the road. Six or
seven inches. I hope to arrange some sort of drainage somehow for the
side of my house. Meanwhile it has a soak-away which is very slow and
inadequate, or me with a pump, also slow and unreliable (me - not the
pump)

I wish you the best of luck with it, however you choose to deal
with it,

Regards, John


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

texastoy4her said:


> The house has flooded at least 7 times that I know of since it was built lol.


The power of rain is not something easy to overcome. If it was a one time deal then it would be one thing but 7 times in 33 years is a pretty clear signal about what the future holds with regards to trying french drains and cleaning ditches. No disrespect to those that made such suggestions but this would take a sizable amount of money to solve and that does not appear to be an option to the homeowner.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Im pretty sure as you suggested there may be a blockage or two along the way somewhere but generally I think the bigger problem which I won't be able to solve myself is the ditches themselves are over grown. there are trees growing in the ditches lol. Not to mention that directly in front of my house, there really isn't a ditch. I mean there is but there isn't. Not like you would expect a ditch to be. 

And actually there is only 1 other house out here that suffered from flooding and that gentleman built a concrete wall around his. So as far as getting help from the neighbors who are having the same problems, I don't think that is feasible.

let me give a little more info on where I live if I can. Where we are, it is about 2 miles in length and maybe 2 miles deep. So say you came in the gate and turned right, you could go about a mile and a half and then turn left and continue following the road. Then it just basically makes a big circle with a couple of side roads here and there in the middle.

Now, the drainage problem is that the creek is to the left of you when you come in the gate. But the slope of the ground pretty much is none existent. Very little slop out here. And with this and the fact the board has brought in loads and loads of gravel and dirt over the years to "improve" the roads, this is what has caused the problem with my home.


maybe if I had the money to rent a backhoe and dig out the ditches myself lol.

Thanks for all the info guys.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

I'm sure the gentleman who had a wall built around his property had
no such intention originally, but found it necessary later.

If the administrators of the private estate are not obliged to look
after the roads and the drainage, then you would have no recourse to
litigation. However i would think that the upkeep of the basic
infrastructure was indeed part of their duties.

If they make a charge, or levy, or fee, against you as part of your
costs to them for living on their private estate, then i would think
you could look up in your deeds, or details, or paperwork, to see
what services the administrators are obliged to undertake in respect
of the payments made to them.

I would think that keeping the drainage ditches in working order are
a pretty basic requirement, or they would not be there in the first
place.

It should be worth checking if the drainage ditches are part of the
general upkeep of the estate.

If so, you probably would not need to actually instigate any action,
just a polite letter asking for the relevant ditch to be attended to
as your property is being affected.

If there are trees growing in the ditch where water should be running
off, then it must have been in poor repair for years. If it now gets cleared out, then hopefully the water table local to your house will
drop enough to make a big difference.

Best of luck with it, John


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

You are right about the wall around the guys house lol. He didn't have intentions on it at first but after getting over 4 foot of water in his house he decided it was neccassary.

You are also right in the fact that the roads and ditches have been in bad shape out here for years. I mean not only are there trees in some of them but also big shrubs and patches. Like a briar patch in alot of them.

To my knowledge the roads and ditches are the responseabilty of the board to maintain. That is whhy alot of people out here quit paying dues is cause they (the board) board maintaining the roads and so forth the way they were suppose to.

I do not know if it is still the duty or not as they could have changed the bi-laws.

Will have to check into that and see.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Hi all,

I know I had said a while back i would post pics but have been busy and hadn't had a chance to really take any.

I did however take some this morning after a "steady" rain we had. Nothing to heavy just steady.

But, I do not know how to post them into the message itself and they are to big for attatchment 1.24mb is the smallest.

Can someone tell me how to do this?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

are they JPEGs, cos if they are not, then put them into Jpeg format,
that will make them small enough to be attachments.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

They are jpg. Is there a difference betwen this and jpeg? If not then I don't know how to make them smaller or how to just out them in the text body.

If there is, how would I go about changing it from jpg to jpeg? Just right click on it and rename it with .jpeg at the end?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Perhaps you could stick some in Photobucket,
and just post the links.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

OK lets try this lol.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0064.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0058.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

They have come out fine.
Very interesting,
do you have any more ?


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Here are a couple more. They aren't as good as you would probably like but still good.

If I was to walk across the levee into the road, the water would be up to my ankles. Same way in the yard and actually a little more.

I couldn't really get to much better cause it has been really cloudy all day.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=frontofhouse1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=frontofhouse2.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

So, it is like that now ?


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Yep. The rain has let off, but it has been off and on all day. If it every starts again and stays steady again for another hour or so, then.....

The only reason we probably haven't flooded already is the sandbags you saw in 1 of the photos. They are helping but if it starts again and doesn't stop then....

And also, our pourch was covered earlier from the hour or so of "steady rain we had gotten. It has since receded off of the porch from us turning the sump pump on. (had to do it manually cause it got stuck lol) The porch is basicaly just a 2 inch slab.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

You mentioned a nearby creek,
has the level in this creek risen so far,
that this water around your home
is now the surface level of that creek ?


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Yes the creek has risen but that is not the water around the house. 

The water around the house is simply from the rain anddoes not have a means to drain to the creek. Pretty much no ditches and before you get to where there are ditches, it is over grown so the water around the house has a hard time draining.
Granted right now even if we could get it to flow to the creek, it wouldnt do much as...

I just checked weatherbug and it states that creek is currently at 27.4 feet and flood stage is 24 feet.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I can't help feeling that the proper answer here is to improve the
ditch or ditches that serve your property.
Pumping does help, but thats expense for you and i dont think it
should be your long term solution.
I think you should seriously look into the ditch situation.
Even if it means dragging in friends and family to help,
( to physically improve the run-off)

And find out for sure if its something that the administrators of the
estate should be looking after. If its not, you're on you're own but
i think that drainage is a basic requirement, I think that the
administrators should be looking after that.
Surely this amount of local water build up, is going to affect the
sewerage drains? Or are there individual sewage pits for each house?

Whichever they are, this amount of surface water waiting to drain away
is surely going to be a problem with the sewerage system ?

You will have to find out for sure if the local drainage is supposed
to be kept in working order or not, and who is responsible.

Have you contacted the site owners/administrators about this?
A few ditches in good order can do a better job than all those pumps
and stuff, cos they will take the run-off to the creek.
Unless the sumps and pumps take the water out to the creek, then they
are just moving it around until it drains away.

Do you know the company name ? ... there might be something on the
internet you never know.

First off, try to find out if they are supposed to do it or not, then
take it from there.

For some reason this kind of thing really annoys me.

John


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

There is no "company" or "site owners/admins".

This area is a private community. Whoever buys a "lot" out here is then suppose to pay dues.
The dues are paid to the "board" which is composed of property owners out here which are voted on yearly. The board is then suppose to be responsible for keeping the roads and ditches and whatever maintained. Unless they have changed the bi-laws for out here. No, I have not spoken to them to try and get them to do something as the original owner ofthe property and several others have tried to no avail. That is what has brought on a huge issue out here. A lot of people out here have quit paying their dues because the board has not kept up with what they were suppose to. In fact, the original owners of my property had also quit paying the dues. When the house flooded 7-8 years ago the original owners of my property told the board they would no longer pay their dues until they fixed the drainage.

Which also bring another problem. I can't find out if they have changed the bi-laws to where they are no longer responsible fot the maintenance out here cause they will not give a copy to someone who is behind on their dues. And also will not do anything for someone behind on their dues.

As for the sewage out here, each house is suppose to have a septic tank. Can't remember how big is required. But that is a county regulation.

I agree that improving the ditches is the answer. As well do others. But that is the problem. getting the proper people to do the maintenance. And personally I do not feel I should have to foot the bill for this. 1 as it would be very expensive and 2. the noard is suppose to take care of these things.

As for getting friends or family. I hate to say it but I really do not have any friends. And my family...well thats another story for another time.

Which is why I was trying to find out if there was something short moving or giving an arm and a leg I could do.

Thanks for all the help and info.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi TexasToy,

I've read your last post quite a few times to try to get some sort of
starting point. Theres a few items that stick out, but i might have
them wrong, cos things here just aint the same as things there.

The Board.
A group of the property owners of the estate, elected yearly ....
is that correct ?

Do any of the homeowners pay their dues ?
Of those that don't, is it the drainage that is the dispute ?
Are they willing to pay if the drainage is sorted ?

Here (England) By-Laws are not made by private landowners, they are
made by the local authorities. They are available to anyone who cares
to look, in libraries, or local council offices. In many cases they
can be viewed and downloaded from the web.

Private landowners can and do often make 'Rules' such as 'No sounding
a stationary motor car horn after seven-thirty at night, or before
three AM' or 'No alligators/crocodiles' a common one here is 'Garden
hedges may not be higher than four feet'

It could be that 'The Board' is just the representatives of the people
who live on the estate, and if it was voted that the money was spent
on re-surfacing the roads instead of drainage, then thats where it
went. Maybe another board could be put together by those folk affected
by the poor drainage, then the dues could be spent on that.

Or maybe the folk affected by the poor drainage could elect a board
member, specifically to push for their interests.

It might be worth checking out the health issues of the poor drainage
such as the effect on the septic tanks. There may be regulations which
you could use to push for an improvement in the drainage.

I do not think you should be alone in trying to get something done,
i think you should be part of a group.

It may be that the board is not responsible for anything other than
the instructions of the owners that they represent, but that is worth
checking out carefully, some duties may be obligatory.

I am sure you have more friends than you think, if you start a group
to address the drainage problem, you might find a lot of people are
interested.

Meanwhile, i'm glad your pump is working, and i hope your sandbags
are holding up.
Please keep this thread alive with any fresh info that comes along,
i am very interested as to how it works out.

Best regards, John


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Yes the board is a group of elected property owners. As far as representing the people of the estate, no.

They are put there to take care of the community. Now, I know where you are probably going to go on this which is like you stated to elect someone who will push to get things taken care of. Actaully 2 years ago the president of the board resigned cause the other members where only concerned about their specific areas and would not do as he wanted.

The overall maintenance is what the dues are for. Nothing else. Keeps the roads up, ditches cleaned out, vacant lots clean, the swimming pool clean and so forth. Now as you suggested I do think their is a vote process as to which item get taken care of first. Which their in lies another problem. You can only vote if your dues are paid up, and right now even if ours were, it wouldn't make a difference cause there are enough owners that dues are paid up, that would do as they see fit. And also on that note, my father n law who passed away last August use to go the meetings the board has everyweek. He had found out the community has so over 18k in the bank account and something similar in the savings account. While I realize that is not much money when it comes to bringing truck loads of dirt in for the roads, and having to hire a backhoe or something to clean the ditches, they do have the means and just haven't done it. As a matter of fact, last year they brought in about10-15 loads of dirt for the roads. That is the most they have done in 10 years.

Another problem with the drainage is most of the culverts out here at broke and allowing dirt to fall into them blocking them up. The board has not replaced any culverts in I couldn't even begin to tell you how long.

We are actually they only family out here that suffers from the drainage problem. The rest of the people, it is more of an incovience but their homes do not flood. The only otherone that did, hasn't had a problem since he built that wall.

What I meant by by-laws is like you stated the rules for out here. Can't have livestock, speedlimits so and so, mobile homes must be kept up so on and so on. By-Laws is all I or anyone else out here has ever called them. The county has their own regulations but that is county wide. Nothing specific to here. The police are not even allowed to do random patrols out here. They are only allowed out here if they are called for a specific reason or if they are trailing someone lol.

Now with that said. How would I go about checking into the health issues of the poor drainage and the septic tanks? Check with the county health board? And even if so, what could they do as this is a private community?

Excuse some of my ignorance on some of these issues as I have never dealt or even been around them to see how things should work.

Chris


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Here are some more pics I took this morning. Keep in mind that it quit raining around 8 pm last night. So after 14 hours of no rain it still looks like this.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=yard3.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch3

In this next pic...As you can see, The water is mainly a trouble around my house. Further down the road things are fine. With the exception of course of the ditches.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0068.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0069.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi TexasToy,

You say that others are inconvenienced by the poor drainage, but yours
is the only home that floods.
Well, for a lot of people, an inconvenience can sometimes be enough to
prompt them into some sort of action.
The sort of action i am thinking of is to form a group specifically
to get the drainage dealt with properly.

You could also mention that although it may be an inconvenience now,
its been getting worse as the drainage ditches have gradually got
worse over the years. You could point out that a rise of an inch or
two might bring the water to their doorstep.

You say that the duties of the board are:
_
The overall maintenance is what the dues are for. Nothing else. Keeps
the roads up, ditches cleaned out, vacant lots clean, the swimming
pool clean and so forth.
_
I think you should also try to find out for sure exactly what their
obligatory duties are.

If some of the residents are behind in their dues, does this change
the duties of the board ... ?
Maybe lamposts and street lighting don't have to be kept up or
maintained by the homes of people who are behind with their dues ... ?

Maybe the duties of the board have to be done regardless, if people
fall behind in their dues then proceedings may be taken against them,
these are things you should check out.

Maybe the board don't have any binding duties that they have to perform
maybe they can spend it on parties if they choose.

Things over here are not the same as things over there.
But some things are pretty much the same, if they have no legal way
of getting you to pay your dues, then i guess they are not legally
bound to attend to those things you mentioned.
Such an arrangement over here would be regarded as informal, just a
group of private residents trying to keep the place up to scratch.

I only mentioned the possible link between the septic tanks and the
poor drainage as a possible way to 'encourage' the board to consider
improving the ditches.
It is possible that allowing the local drainage of a small housing
estate, to get into such a bad condition that it affects the septic
tank arrangements, might contravene some sort of regulations regarding
dealing with sewerage.
This is something worth checking out, but its not something i know
about.

If you can get others to join with you as part of a group to look into
the drainage, just chatting about these issues will bring up all sorts
of possibilities.

But bear in mind, if you do find some way to co-erce, or to force the
board to attend to the drainage, they in turn could probably use the
same way, to insist that you (and maybe others) to settle up any
outstanding dues owing to them.

Maybe just the group of lower lying homes, might find it better to
club together and deal with the ditches on a private basis.

As regards to health issues, i would feel safe in saying that if there
are health issues because of the poor drainage causing the local water
table to rise, making local septic arrangements inadequate, then the
authorities would take this very seriously indeed. 
However take caution here because it may go against you, they may
decide that home owners are obliged to deal with their own septic
tanks and if local conditions change, then home owners will have to
modify or adapt their arrangements accordingly.

And they generally have the power to check if theres any leakages,
and they generally have the power to enforce homeowners to comply with
the directives, or end up in court.

On the other hand, they could decide that its because the drainage has
been allowed to deteriorate.

I would not start raising that issue without checking all the angles
first, as it could so easily back-fire and cause you even more trouble
than you have already.

Even worse, if the authorities decide to check everyones tank for
possible leaks (over here health authorities have wide ranging powers,
to check all sorts of stuff, private land or not), imagine how popular
you would be if some of your neighbours were forced to repair or renew
their tanks.

I suggest again starting a group to improve the drainage. I don't
think you should be trying to deal with this situation on your own.

Other people might not get actually flooded, but maybe it affects their
gardens, maybe they get more annoyed by it than you know.
Maybe their cars get more rusty than they should ...
Maybe the ground being waterlogged for too long and too often is having
an effect on the local plants and wildlife.
Making people aware of this sort of thing could help.

I have no knowledge of how to deal with these sort of things in Texas,
and only a rough idea how to carry on over here in England, so dont
let me tell you how to manage. Discussing it with other people involved
always seems to me the best way to handle these sort of situations.

I wish you the best of luck with it, John 

_
The photos came out ok, please post a few more, as it goes down._


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Hi John,

The duties of the board are to maintain/improve the community. I see where you are going ie: if your dues are not paid then we will not do the required work around your property. People quit paying their dues for simply that reason. Even when they were paying, they still did not fix the roads, fix the drainage, maintain vacant lots. These are pretty much all the board is responsible for. They are "suppose" to keep this place clean and improve. Yes they can spend the money on parties, but the parties have to be for the community. Not a party for 1 of the board members just for the heck of it. I also think there are taxes and what ever but what I am saying is the majority of the dues are suppose to go towars improving the community ie; fixing the roads drainage and so forth.

I'll give you an example. I am 31 now. When I was 13-14 years old riding my bike around out here. It was fun. But now, if you were to ride a bike out here, you will be lucky if you don't fall because of all the holes in the roads. The roads are dirt roads and as stated before they have quit doing the proper mainntenance on them. They do not grade the roads properly and when they do bring loads of dirt in to be placed on the roads, it goes on the roads of the board members or their friends. Honestly, I would love to find a way to disolve the board and just let the county come in and take over. But the board does not want that to happen. Nobody has been able to prove it but we all know that some or all of the board members are pocketing money from the dues paid. Long story short on that note is that the people on the board now are all kiss a__. 

Yes they have a legal way to get the dues. In fact my grandmothers husband was recently sued over it and is having to pay. Many times people have tried getting by with different things on the premise that if 1 or 2 by-laws are not being inforced then how can they inforce others? Which is exactly what they do.

As for what I meant by an incovenience, I meant that it's an incovenience cause they have to drive through it. But even at that, there are only a couple of roads out here that flood. Unless it gets really really bad. The roads directly around my home and my yard specifialy are the only 1's that flood just from moderate rain. Also, my home is just about the only actual home out here. The majority of the rest are mobile homes. So unless it gets really really bad they won't flood. The rest of the homes are above road level. Ours is the only one below. Our home was the first one built out here therefore just over time with the roads being built up and the ditches getting the way they are is what has caused the problem.

While I agree with you that it would be good to try and get a group together try push to have things done. It really is not an option. For the most part, those that agree with me do not have their dues paid up. Therefore also do not have a voice at the board meetings. Now I know you are saying well pay your dues up and then you can speak up. Ok, but then again, when the dues were being paid, they still didn't do the work. And would just be the same as it is now. I just remembered something. When I stated their was a vote process, what I remembered is that yes there is a vote process, but the voteing is only done by the board. You can go to the meeting and speak whatever (if your dues are paid ), but when all is said and done, it'e entirely up to the board as they vote for what improvements need to get done.

I am at a loss of what else to say for now so I am going to go lol.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi TexasToy,

If i read you right, the board can and has enforced payment of dues
through the courts on at least one occasion ... ?

There are curiously, a good few legal experts who frequent these
forums. I'm afraid that i am not one of them, but i do think that
in this case, that since the board has "opened the door" so to speak,
that as they can demand the money legally, i think they are also
accountable for its correct and appropriate use.

How much is your back-log of dues owing ?
Before you can ask the board to attend to the ditches or explain
themselves in court, you will have to be free and clear.

Very often all that is needed is a carefully worded letter from a
solicitor, nobody really wants to get involved in litigation.

But first, check that they are responsible.
Then get legal advice.
If you want to go ahead, clear your dues.

Although strictly speaking, your position with the dues, should not
absolve them of their legal obligations, it is just that they would
almost certainly bring that up, to make you look bad.

This is not my field, i am going to ask for assistance, i don't want
to steer you wrong.

John


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Yep, You read right. they have and are sueing to get back dues from people.

I recieved a letter from them last year stating how much was owed on our property in back dues but can't seem to find it and don't remember right off hand. But it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $600.

Thanks for the help and will wait patiently.

Chris


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

Hi John,

here are some more pics I took this morning.

As you can see the water has pretty much receded except in the ditches.

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0071.jpg

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l277/texastoy/?action=view&current=100_0070.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

yes its definately draining away.
I have asked again for assistance, my mail may not have gone
through before.

John


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## golddust (Jan 2, 2005)

wacorsaut said:


> my first thought would be to raise the house and put it on top of a crawl space but you dont want to spend money.
> 
> you wont like this answer but i would move. you are dealing with an inevitable catastrophe.
> 
> if you want to stay then buy flood insurance and keep stuff that is important up high. i do not think there is much of a preventative measure that would give you a solution and even at that you would need a generator that would come on automatically as when it storms you lose power sometimes


Flood insurance is only going to cover this problem in the event of a major catastrophe where the entire county comes under a disaster declaration. These folks have a problem that is not going to be covered in most cases.


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## texastoy4her (Nov 30, 2004)

I don't know the rules of Flood Insurance but I do know the last time our house flooded, the county I live in was not delcared a disaster area. Not even spots of the county.


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