# Rotten Apples...



## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

In the past I've had the utmost respect for Steve Jobs and Apple, but lately he seems to be having a crisis. Either he's going a touch mad, or he's single-handedly attempting to kill the Apple brand. By not allowing Flash content to to run on some of Apples products, he is isolating Apple users from a total internet experience. Without Adobe, Apple wouldn't be here now. I'm refering of course to Adobe Type Manager, without which in the past, Macs couldn't render fonts. In his 'Thoughts Of Flash' statement he more or less states that Adobe owed their existence to Apple. What rot. Steve, annoy Adobe and your consumers at your peril. This is no way to encourage increased market share... :down:


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## Mumbodog (Oct 3, 2007)

Apple has always had control of their Hardware and Software, nothing new here, it was only a matter of time before he flexed his muscles against Adobe.


Flash is doomed in the streaming video market, only a matter of time.

If I were to guess it was Adobe's continual foot dragging on security vulnerability patches in their products that finally broke Apples back.

I don't think this move by Apple will make any difference in their market share growth.

.


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

1: People have been predicting the demise of Flash for a while now, yet it's still with us and as popular as ever.

2: Foot dragging concerning security patches isn't confined to Adobe. So who's next on Steves hitlist?

3: If one were to compare Microsoft and Apple to countries, Microsoft would be the US, Apple would be North Korea.

Third party developers are essential to the continued success and growth of any platform, so instigating draconian restrictions is surely counter-productive.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Do you work for Adobe? You sound like it. Flash is NOT the internet, it's only part of the internet, and a bad part. I hated flash ever since I first saw a flash-based website back in 1999. That's 11 years of thinking and KNOWING that flash is garbage. This is nothing new, this isn't an apple-lover issue, a TON of people hate flash.


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

As an aside:

*Microsoft Agrees With Apple And Google: "The Future Of The Web Is HTML5″*

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-html5/


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## new tech guy (Mar 27, 2006)

Just my 2 cents, alot of mobile devices have yet to add flash support, for instance to date i cannot find a sutible flash client for my motorola droid. Atcually i cant find one at all, unless im overlooking somthing, and most googleing i do suggessts a beta that i cant seem to find anywhere online or they are simply working on it, im really perplexed....


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

ekim68 said:


> As an aside:
> 
> *Microsoft Agrees With Apple And Google: The Future Of The Web Is HTML5″*
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-html5/


I'm glad to see that Microsoft will support HTML5, since they never supported XHTML1.1 and have limited support for XHTML1.0 This is a step in the right direction for them :up:


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm not saying Flash is perfect, it definitely isn't. HTML5 is a step in the right direction, and no, i don't work for Adobe. All i'm trying to point out is that in not supporting Flash for now, Jobs seems to be cutting off his nose to spite his face.

I'm not an MS fanboi either, I'm of the opinion the market is strong enough to support more than one OS, and I DO like most of Apples products even though they are expensive compared to most of the competition (Not a great fan of iPods though, there are much better alternatives on the market e.g Archos). The reason my household contains 6 Windows devices is solely down to economics...


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

sgtgrash said:


> Not a great fan of iPods though


The only iPod I like is the Touch. I can't hassle with the stupid wheel they put on the Nano and Classic. The Shuffle just seems pointless to me, random songs, I like picking my song!

I own two Touches and they're great! Bought a couple of Nanos for my parents a few years ago as an anniversary gift, and I can't stand them. Stupid wheel...


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## Mumbodog (Oct 3, 2007)

The real reason why Steve Jobs hates Flash

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/why-steve-jobs-hates-flash.html

.


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

Mumbodog said:


> The real reason why Steve Jobs hates Flash
> 
> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/why-steve-jobs-hates-flash.html
> 
> .


....it's obvious that the blog writer has given some thought to the opinions posted there. I take exception to a basic premise that he is making his assumptions on...at least I hope the human race is not that stupid, anyway.



> ......We have known since the mid-1990s that the internet was the future of computing. With increasing bandwidth, data doesn't need to be trapped in the hard drives of our desktop computers: data and interaction can follow us out into the world we live in.......





> .......Apple are trying desperately to force the growth of a new ecosystem  one that rivals the 26-year-old Macintosh environment  to maturity in five years flat. That's the time scale in which they expect the cloud computing revolution to flatten the existing PC industry.....


The reason I feel ( and hope ) he is mistaken is..security. I personally don't know anyone who is willing to give up their trust and privacy to an operation like say...Google, with all of their hard drive data residing on the internet. I dont care how much assurance Google gives me, wrg to their supposedly new OS designed for cloud computing, I don't, and won't EVER trust anyone with my personal data.
Secondly...try to imigine for a moment, what the blog writer is envisioning for the future. The death of the PC and PC OS market, which will cause the following (not listed in the order of importance )

1. A severe downturn in the availability of home computers, due to a lack of demand, causing the technology now available to become much more costly, and less rapidly developed ( since the market has dried up)..hmmm I dont think so!

2. Security is a huge issue, since we all know that nothing is actually secure, even Linux is not completely secure, let alone firefox, as so many of the users of those systems would have you believe. Where there is a will, there is a way !

3. Trust: Do you really think you can trust Google, or anyone for that matter, with the absolute control/access to your data. You really think, that your government (place the name of your country here ) ) will not eventually pass a law, giving them access to that data, in times of what they (your government) consider a national crises?

4. Last, but not the least, IMO.

....If you think the entertainment industry has gone overboard, wrt stopping the piracy of copyrighted materials and how that fight reflects on the "freedom and rights of the internet users" (READ YOU AND ME) just you wait until the cloud computing sheep users start getting hacked and/or attacked by all of those folks out there that consider it a game to infect you with malware, and it will happen, as frequently as it does now on your personal computer.

Once those said sheep users start getting attacked, they are going to demand from their providers that they receive better protection, in turn, granting the provider with greater powers of data control (remember, this will be in the name of "we need to do this, to provide you with the best security) which will lead to new laws for control/access/usage of what will then be called the internet, however, it won't be anything like what we now call the internet.

all I can say is....good luck with that, cause it surly won't come to be! If that is the future that Steve Jobs is predicting/basing his Companies future on, all I can say is, get rid of your Apple Products, cause there is a short lived future in sight for Apple!


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

Wow, that's a lot of connections, paisanol69...Interesting thoughts on the cloud, which I use a bit, but still keep my own storage for my purposes, but I don't see how that's short-lived for Apple...After all they had the foresight to introduce computing to schools back in the 1980's.....And, they've been very good at knowing what people want...


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

I've always thought of data farms - which is basically what all this airy fairy cloud stuff really is (and by no means a new idea) - as the equivalent of handing over your possessions to a spiv and asking him to look after them.


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm in the same ballpark as Paisanol69:

"3. _Trust: Do you really think you can trust Google, or anyone for that matter, with the absolute control/access to your data._" - In short, no!!!

Governments are already bullying ISPs into releasing confidential information about their subscribers at the behest of the music, movie and games industries. The illegal downloading of entertainment media has opened a very large can of worms. It's entirely probable that governments will use any given world or local security crisis to justify snooping into our private data. The most efficient way to do this is via the web. Cloud computing can only increase the risk of unwanted intrusions, which is why I'd never use The Cloud. I'm fairly sure I am not alone in this, which is why healthy sales of fat client machines are likely to continue for the foreseeable future...


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## valley_girl1919 (Aug 9, 2009)

I understand your frustration, but really Steve Jobs is not a complete idiot. Do you think he wants people hating Apple. NO. I'm telling you he has something up his sleeve. There is probably something that Apple is going to come out with in the future that they are working on right now that people have no clue about and Steve Jobs along with the marketing department of Apple is waiting to put flash on something else thats even better than the i pad so not only will they make millions of people buying the i pad, they know that everyone is still anticipating the release off something better with flash so then they will make millions more. So, believe me these people know what they are doing. They just want to keep you waiting a little.


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

ekim68 said:


> Wow, that's a lot of connections, paisanol69...Interesting thoughts on the cloud, which I use a bit, but still keep my own storage for my purposes, but I don't see how that's short-lived for Apple...After all they had the foresight to introduce computing to schools back in the 1980's.....And, they've been very good at knowing what people want...


...it I don't think that cloud computing is going to be the next "main internet" as the blog writer is claiming, and that if the blog writer is correct as to what Apples future plans are, then Apple is doomed!!

...Don't forget, along with the cloud idea, is Google coming out with their own O.S., and that O.S. will/is designed for the user to maintaion ALL of their files/data at Google "clouds", using a simplified netbook sort of machine (who knows, a palm or the like ?) I read that in an article/link that I think either Tom, or Mumbo posted here in the tech news forum a while back. No, I will not go and dig it up, whoever wants to read it can do their own search for it.

And for all of you that think the cloud is a good idea, well, more power to you. However, if the blog writer is correct wrt Apple, then just remember this,

It means that ALL of your private data will be kept remotely, INCLUDING your banking/password(s) information, and all other PERSONAL data.

If you are willing to let yourself go that far in trusting a complete stranger, there one more thing to consider..that is the physical security of those future data banks, not just from physical harm, but also power failure, natural disaster, etc, etc.

What are you going to do when your "hard drive"on the net disappears for good???

Do you really think that cloud computing is going to make the personal P.C. obsolete, as the blogger posits??? Jeese!


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

Well I don't think the cloud is the end all, but we've all managed to stay on line, like here, for a while now without getting broken....It's just another alternative and if you don't like it, or don't trust it, then you've gotten by for now without it, so don't consider it...


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

ekim68 said:


> Well I don't think the cloud is the end all, but we've all managed to stay on line, like here, for a while now without getting broken....It's just another alternative and if you don't like it, or don't trust it, then you've gotten by for now without it, so don't consider it...


I guess I am confused regarding your last...All I did was disagree with a blog writers OPINION, wrg to the future of Apple, and Home computers. Did you even bother to read the link posted by Mumbo??? Or are you only interested in debating with me about the points that I am making towards someone elses blog? If you dont think what I am saying makes any sense, good for you, however, all I did was disagree with someone elses thoughts regarding where the future of personal computing was headed.

Did you miss that?


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

No I didn't miss that. And I actually agree with you somewhat in regards to where PC's are headed. My post was a bit flippant, sorry for the sarcasm...


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## loserOlimbs (Jun 19, 2004)

sgtgrash said:


> In the past I've had the utmost respect for Steve Jobs and Apple, but lately he seems to be having a crisis.
> 3: If one were to compare Microsoft and Apple to countries, Microsoft would be the US, Apple would be North Korea.


The first point was first mistake, the second point is more in line with reality.

While I agree HTML 5 might be the way to go, once a standard is defined for video playback... the now demands Flash, and it should be the consumers choice to use it, not Steve Jobs.


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## Mumbodog (Oct 3, 2007)

Apple has sold its millionth iPad in just 28 days

http://ipadwatcher.com/2010/05/03/apple-has-sold-its-millionth-ipad-in-just-28-days/

.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 19, 2005)

I have always disliked ALL Adobe products. "Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009."

So what to do??

* Is there a safe alternative to flash player?*

What do you think would happen to Microsoft if it banned adobe flash ?? 

I have been running Win 7 without flash for a couple days now and am not happy with results so far. IE runs better .. Less lockups but cannot view allot of things I would like to have access to.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/195444/feds_eye_apple_for_antitrust_probe.html


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## loserOlimbs (Jun 19, 2004)

If Apple would adopt a current technology that could take its place, that would fine by me too.... Silverlight for example is much better than Flash in many respects, but is an MS product and does not have a large market the way that Flash does.


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## new tech guy (Mar 27, 2006)

I beleive that if google moves youtube to html 5, and does away with flash on all of their services, although i think its only really on youtube, it may cause a shift to another technology such as html 5 as youtube is probably where flash is used the most on the web.


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

new tech guy said:


> I beleive that if google moves youtube to html 5, and does away with flash on all of their services, although i think its only really on youtube, it may cause a shift to another technology such as html 5 as youtube is probably where flash is used the most on the web.


That's a very valid point. Google could be the catalyst for change in this instance. If it were to advocate say Silverlight over Flash on YouTube there would be a sea change overnight, more or less. I'd like to be a fly on the wall during the Apple board meeting after such an event... hehe


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Why does everyone talk about HTML5 like it's something very new? The W3C has been discussing HTML5 since 2004, as a way of improving what was in HTML4.01 while incorporating XHTML elements. One good thing about HTML5 is that now nothing has to be labeled as "depreciated." It's either excepted as valid, or it's obsolete. is an example of an element that is now obsolete under HTML5, replaced with (before, they both could be used). HTML5 isn't anything "new" it's been around since 2004.

HTML5 isn't even in the final stages yet, it's still a working draft.


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## loserOlimbs (Jun 19, 2004)

namenotfound said:


> Why does everyone talk about HTML5 like it's something very new? The W3C has been discussing HTML5 since 2004, as a way of improving what was in HTML4.01 while incorporating XHTML elements. One good thing about HTML5 is that now nothing has to be labeled as "depreciated." It's either excepted as valid, or it's obsolete. is an example of an element that is now obsolete under HTML5, replaced with (before, they both could be used). HTML5 isn't anything "new" it's been around since 2004.
> 
> HTML5 isn't even in the final stages yet, it's still a working draft.


Thats exactly why all the talk. Its finally presenting technologies that are needed or desired by the masses over HTML 4 and or XHTML. Built in codecs for video playback without calling Flash, or another technology for example.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Some (very small amount) of video hosting communities use QuickTime videos. What's wrong with just using that? I'd rather just embed a QuickTime movie to my site, than use Flash (and that's what I've been doing the past 2 years)


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

namenotfound said:


> Some (very small amount) of video hosting communities use QuickTime videos. What's wrong with just using that? I'd rather just embed a QuickTime movie to my site, than use Flash (and that's what I've been doing the past 2 years)


From a personal perspective, I've had many issues with Quicktime over the years. After many an update I've found Quicktime is unwilling to work. That's a current issue too by the way, not that I miss it if I'm honest. I also get annoyed by constant nags to download iTunes, even though I always choose not to install it when downloading Quicktime updates. I don't like iTunes... I don't have an iPod... Wouldn't want one...


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

lol get a Mac!

J/K (though QuickTime for Mac works better than the Windows counterpart)

When HTML5 becomes more polished, I will probably switch my QuickTime videos over to it. But for now, it's still a working draft and some things may change as time progresses.


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## new tech guy (Mar 27, 2006)

namenotfound said:


> Why does everyone talk about HTML5 like it's something very new? The W3C has been discussing HTML5 since 2004, as a way of improving what was in HTML4.01 while incorporating XHTML elements. One good thing about HTML5 is that now nothing has to be labeled as "depreciated." It's either excepted as valid, or it's obsolete. is an example of an element that is now obsolete under HTML5, replaced with (before, they both could be used). HTML5 isn't anything "new" it's been around since 2004.
> 
> HTML5 isn't even in the final stages yet, it's still a working draft.


as far as I know, 802.11n is a working draft and it is gaining popularity, the wifi board has not ratified it yet as far as i know and even then alot of existing n setups are draft technologies....As stated by loser however, it is exciting as html 5 is no longer simply a concept and being actively developed...all i need to say is that if google opens this thing up to open source, well adobe better look out...


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Well 802.11n "just works." However, if you write your page with new HTML5 element tags, then they decide to change something and those tags are no longer valid... Ya know what I mean.

Plus it doesn't yet have support from ALL browsers across the board. Only *some* browsers can currently view YouTube in the HTML5 option. Like I could view videos in Chrome, but not Firefox. Have you tried the HTML5 option in YouTube?

http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2010/01/introducing-youtube-html5-supported.html

***
Btw, about not liking iTunes. I tried MANY jukebox applications over the years, for Windows, Mac, and Linux. And I mean MANY. iTunes is by far my favorite.


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

namenotfound said:


> Btw, about not liking iTunes. I tried MANY jukebox applications over the years, for Windows, Mac, and Linux. And I mean MANY. iTunes is by far my favorite.


Maybe I suffer from Luddite tendancies 

I will agree it looks slick but I find it a little too intrusive for my taste...


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## loserOlimbs (Jun 19, 2004)

sgtgrash said:


> From a personal perspective, I've had many issues with Quicktime over the years. After many an update I've found Quicktime is unwilling to work. That's a current issue too by the way, not that I miss it if I'm honest. I also get annoyed by constant nags to download iTunes, even though I always choose not to install it when downloading Quicktime updates. I don't like iTunes... I don't have an iPod... Wouldn't want one...


Quicktime is one of those things that I LOATHE! Buggy, worthless software. I never install it, and if I find a site that embeds quicktime, and no other media options, I never watch and I never go back.

iTunes was junk too, Zune Player was by far the best media player I ever found, and that amazed me!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

namenotfound said:


> Plus it doesn't yet have support from ALL browsers across the board. Only *some* browsers can currently view YouTube in the HTML5 option. Like I could view videos in Chrome, but not Firefox. Have you tried the HTML5 option in YouTube?


This is most likely due to how YouTube has implemented their videos in HTML5. Here is a HTML5 video demo page with video (and some audio only) demos that work in Firefox and I imagine Safari and Chrome as well.

In time, the HTML5 landscape will change and the multimedia playback capabilities of HTML5 will improve in browsers and support will become far more widespread than it is right now.

I believe Flash Video is simply a container for other video formats so having the ability to render the video natively (meaning WITHOUT a designated player) should make the multimedia web experience more seamless than it is today.

Peace...


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

tomdkat said:


> In time, the HTML5 landscape will change and the multimedia playback capabilities of HTML5 will improve in browsers and support will become far more widespread than it is right now.


Which is exactly why I said I'm gonna wait to use it  I know Firefox can play ogg videos, and on their dev blog their excuse for not supporting H.264 is that "we'd have to pay for licensing, so the browser will stop being free" which is a stupid reason I think for not supporting it.

Opera also have issues with H.264, event hough their sites claims "10.50 fully supports " Opera can play ogg just fine.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

VLC aka VideoLan plays QT


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## sgtgrash (Apr 7, 2005)

DaveBurnett said:


> VLC ata VideoLan plays QT


Not on my machine it doesn't. Dunno why though, coz it does state on the VLC webpage that it can...


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

Try the K-Lite codec pack. http://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm
The standard one also has Media Player Classic, which works as well.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

sgtgrash said:


> Not on my machine it doesn't. Dunno why though, coz it does state on the VLC webpage that it can...


VLC will play some but not all QuickTime videos. I've run into sometime QuickTime videos that won't play in VLC and if I'm on my Linux system when I run into those, I sulk for a moment and then move on with my life. 

Peace...


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

tomdkat said:


> VLC will play some but not all QuickTime videos. I've run into sometime QuickTime videos that won't play in VLC and if I'm on my Linux system when I run into those, I sulk for a moment and then move on with my life.
> 
> Peace...


Have you tried ffmpeg in the terminal to convert the QuickTime video to something VLC can read?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

namenotfound said:


> Have you tried ffmpeg in the terminal to convert the QuickTime video to something VLC can read?


Nope because that QuickTime video hasn't been important enough to warrant that effort. Also, I've been using a particular Firefox extension to assist with video conversions so I've been doing that, mostly. When I would use VLC to play a QuickTime video, I would have VLC stream the video directly vs playing videos I downloaded before playing.

Peace...


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