# Guide for building your own system



## crjdriver

1 Parts selection

CPU I will not get into an AMD v Intel debate; both work well. Decide on which cpu you are going with then you can pick a board. If you go intel and you do not want to overclock the system, then I would go with a real intel board. Nothing beats the stability of an intel cpu running on a real intel board. If you want to overclock, then go with a board running an intel chipset. Stay away from the non-intel chipsets for an intel cpu.

If you go AMD, go with a board from a quality manufacture. There are many fine board makers AND I do not wish to start a debate. Stay away from anything made by ECS, Pcchips, Machspeed, or Jetway. A cheap low quality motherboard will cause you all kinds of grief. One thing I like to check when choosing a board is the web site of the board maker; is it easy to use, are there help links like FAQ, etc.
Board selection can get even more confusing simply because ECS does a lot of the actual manufacture of boards for many companies. A good rule is to post your board selection in the hardware forum BEFORE you buy it. We can give you an idea if it is a quality product or not.

Ram
Many of the problems we see on the hardware forum come from either buying parts that are not compatible or buying cheap low quality parts. Most motherboard manufactures publish lists of ram that work with their boards. This is ram that has been tested and found to work. If you buy ram not on the Approved list, it may work OR it may not. It is in your best interest to buy parts that have been found to work together. So once you decide on a cpu and motherboard, go to the site of the board maker and check for approved ram. Another method is to go to a name brand ram manufacturer such as Kingston, Corsair, or Crucial; they have a ram selector on their site. Input your board and it will find compatible ram.

Case and power supply
Choosing a case and power supply can be a very important part of your build. I like to buy them separately since most of the power supplies that come with cases are junk. The exception to this would be an antec or an enermax case. They come with a quality power supply.

Since modern multi core systems generate quite a bit of heat, I like cases that have good cooling. Look for either a single or dual 120mm or larger exhaust fans. An exhaust fan located at the top of the case can be very helpful in dissipating heat as well. Stay away from the $20 case. These will be of very light construction and probably use spring steel clips instead of brass standoffs to mount the board.

Power supply. I cannot stress enough the need for a quality power supply. Modern multi core systems need stable power. When you put the system under a load [such as gaming] the 12V rail [which powers most things in a modern system] can drop and cause the system to either reboot or become unstable.

Buy a power supply that can supply your system. Obviously if you are building a single core system with onboard video, you can use a lower wattage power supply than you can if you are building an 8 core system with a high end video card and raid. In addition you want some room for upgrades. When you install a power supply that is just powerful enough for the system, there is little room to add a second or third hard drive, upgrade the video card, or install a video capture card, etc Stay away from the $25 600W power supply. A quality power supply is going to cost some money; the higher the wattage the more money.

Hard drive
I am not going to recommend one drive maker over another since ALL drive makers have problems at times and go through periods of poor quality control or bad designs. I like WD black or raptor drives simply because of the longer warranty.

2 Assembly of the system.
Now that we have the basic parts, we can continue with building your new computer. I recommend setting up the system outside of the case for its first post [power on self test] or boot. This can save you a lot of time troubleshooting the system. Ground yourself either with a wrist strap or I just touch the screw holding the light switch cover on the wall [this is one way of removing static from your body] Use some common sense; do not build the system on carpet while dragging your feet across the carpet. Place the board on the motherboard box for assembly.

Install the cpu and heatsink fan assembly. Note the intels can be a real pain to install the heatsink fan. If you have an intel, insert the four push pins two at a time diagonally from each other. Turn the board over and make sure all four push pins fully engage the board. AMDs are somewhat easier to install the hsf than the intels. With these you just engage the spring clips and lock down the lever arm. Connect the heatsink fan to the correct header on the motherboard. Note some boards will shutdown if they do not detect a fan signal. So read the manual and connect it to the correct one.

If you buy a retail cpu, it comes with a heatsink fan. The cooler will have a thermal pad already on it. Note some have protective tape you need to remove BEFORE assembly. If you choose to remove the pad, you can use something like Arctic Silver 5 for your thermal compound. This does do a better job however the removal of the thermal pad may void the warranty on your cpu so do be aware of this fact. Just an observation on my part however I have used a LOT of different thermal compounds and really I have not seen any difference in cooling.

If you elect to remove the thermal pad and use Arctic Silver, thoroughly clean the heatsink fan with 99% or 91% alcohol. Do not use the 70% stuff you find in the supermarket; it contains lanolin and will leave a residue on the parts. For cpus with a heat spreader ie P4s and AMD64s you place a small amount [about the size of a BB or slightly more] in the center of the cpu. Do not spread it around. Install the heatsink fan, however do not completely lock it down. Now give the heatsink fan a few twists and lock it into place. For older cpus with an exposed die [Athlon XPs] you must put a small amount on the die and spread it around with your finger inside of a plastic bag. In any case if you remove a heatsink fan after you have assembled the system and powered it on, you must clean all parts and reapply the compound or pad. Do not reuse thermal compound. If you have not pw ON the system, it is OK to remove the hsf and reinstall with the compound. Again IF you pw ON then want to pull the hsf off, you MUST clean all parts and apply new compound.

Now that we have the cpu / hsf installed, install your ram and video card [unless you are using onboard video] Connect your power supply [do make sure ALL of the power connectors are plugged in] many boards use one or even two extra power plugs. Connect your monitor to the video card. Plug in the power supply and monitor. Read your manual to find where the power switch from the case plugs into the board. We will use a small screwdriver or other metal part to jump across these two pins. Some high end boards have a pw switch on the mb. This makes it even easier. Once you have everything connected, jump the power switch pins in the board. If all is well, you should get a display on the monitor. If the board does not power up, recheck ALL connections. If it powers up and shuts down after 5~10 seconds or so, you do not have the heatsink installed correctly. If the system posts ok, you can now shutdown and install the board in the case; you know it works. If it does not post you will need to swap parts with known working ones ie power supply, cpu, ram, motherboard. If all went well, remove the video card and disconnect the power supply. Install the power supply in the case. Now we will mount the board.

Remove the IO plate in the rear of the case. If your board came with one, we will use that one. Set the board in the case with the IO plate removed. Mark where you will need to install the standoffs. I use a sharpie to do this, however a pencil works also. Remove the board and install your standoffs. Now install the IO plate in the case. Set the board on the standoffs and slide it into the IO plate; secure it with the screws that came with your case. At this point I would reinstall your video card and again check that the system posts. If you made an error installing the board in the case, it can save you some time later when you have to disassemble everything ie drives, all cards, etc. If it again posts, you can install whatever cards you need to. I like to leave the slot under the video card empty. This is for cooling of the card. Install your drives and connect power to them. Connect your keyboard and mouse.

Note if you have a usb keyboard it may or may not work right now. It depends on the default setting in your bios to use usb support. I recommend using a ps2 keyboard at least until you can enter the bios and check the setting. Power on the system and enter the bios. Check your manual for the key to do this; most are the DEL however read the manual. Once in the bios, set the time and date. Set the boot order to CD as first boot device. Check your temps in the bios; again read the manual for the exact place to do this; each bios is a little different in where this is located. Again read the manual. Each cpu has a different normal temp. You want to see something <45C. If it is above that temp, you probably do not have the heatsink installed correctly. Save settings and reboot with your windows install disk in the CD/DVD drive. You may or may not have to install the sata driver during setup. Run it and see. If windows finds your hard drive, great; if it does not, you will need to load a driver. Note this driver is included with your motherboard. It sometimes on a floppy OR your support cd will have an option to make the floppy disk. Again read your manual.

You now have a running system that you built yourself!! There is already an install guide for windows in the windows forum so I will not get into the actual install.
__________________


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## Teck

Nice guide. Is this not more related to description of parts then assembly ?


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## gotrootdude

> Stay away from the $20 case.


Unless it's after a big rebate. I've gotten some real nice Antec, Themaltake, and Cooler Master cases for less than $20.



> Look for either a single 120mm exhaust fan or dual 80mm exhaust fans.


Personally, I'd steer clear of any case than doesn't have a rear 120mm fan mount, or two. Unless it's for a nano or micro build, or to sell on ebay.

Nice guide.


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## Teck

My case cost 90 dollars.


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## schusterjo

I would like to add,

When buying a motherboard and CPU you must make sure that the motherboard is the same socket that the CPU is.
Example:
_AMD,_
Socket AM2
Socket 939
Socket 940
Socket F
Socket S1
Socket 754

_Intel:_
LGA 775
Socket 478
Socket 604
Socket 771
Socket M
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Buying ram*
You need to check your motherboard and what ram it supports
168-Pin SDRAM
184-Pin DDR SDRAM
184-Pin RDRAM (16bit)
240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM
Most desktops nowadays use 184-Pin DDR SDRAM or 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM

_Also it is always best to match it up _
Example:

This is not exact but will give you a good ideal what I mean.
DDR2 Is not faster it actually has higher latency times then DDR, but for faster Cpus with (using term FSB lightly here) Larger FSB of 1600,2000 ext.. DDR2 in dual mode allows the ram to run closer to that speed 
Works something like this. (make note DDR will not fit in DDR2 slots or vise verse)
(X2= using in dual channel mode, two modules, always best to use the exact same manufacturer and speed of ram to get best performance.)
PC3200 (400Mhz) X2 = 800Mhz (184 Pin)
PC3500 (433Mhz) X2 = 866Mhz (184 Pin)

PC2-8000 (DDR2-1000) x2 = 2000Mhz (240 Pin) 
PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066) x2 = 2132Mhz (240 Pin)

_Now what does that mean?_

Intel 4 Processor Prescott 3EGHz, 800MHz FSB 
You see DDR PC3200 works great cause it has 800Mhz

Now 
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Dual Core 2.6GHz, 2x1MB, 2000MHz FSB
PC2-8000 (DDR2-1000) x2 = 2000Mhz works cause it has 2000Mhz

By matching allows you to get the maximum performance, If not the you will have one waiting on the other slowing the system.
But like I said In order to get the higher clock speeds they had to increase the latency on DDR2. over time I'm sure they will perfect that.

Another crude way to look at is: think of a hose with water flowing threw it, now we take that hose and connect it to a smaller hose (kind of like placing your finger over the end of the hose and spraying it) This actually slows the total amount of water coming out the end. Now you connect it to the exact same size of hose, It does not spray everywhere but it will allow a nice flow allowing more water to come out.
Large hose to smaller we get 10 Gallons a minute
Large hose to same size we get 13 Gallons a minute
Now you can see more work will get done by matching the ram with the CPU

_2. the CAS speed of ram_ 
CAS Latency: What Is It, and How Does It Impact Performance?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Video card,*

What socket is your motherboard?
What connection does your monitor have? DVI ?VGA? If your video card has a DVI connection only and you monitor has a VGA connection only, you can buy an adaptor.
DVI is the digital connection and is the best to use. (some will see no difference where others will, This probably is up to what hardware is being used)

From slowest to fastest
ISA
PCI
AGP
PCI-E
Keep in mind AGP has 4X and 8X (a 8X card will work with a 4X and will be stepped down to the slower 4X)
Same for PCI-E , 8X and 16X (a 16X card will work with a 8X and will be stepped down to the slower 8X)
You usually will find that a motherboard that supports both 184 pin DDR and 240 pin DDR2 has only a 8X PCI-E slot.

You will need to make sure the video card you are buying is supported by you motherboard
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Buying a case:*
_1.Does it come with a PS? _
Good quality PS, very important to have a good quality Power supply
_2.Looks_
Some just think they look cooler so they are worth more.
_3.Cooling_
Number of fans, size of fan, locations of fans. (good case airflow is very important)
_4.Acessablity_
Some have removable motherboard trays, some have easy no screw removal drive access.
_5.Size_
You have Full tower, mid tower and micro
_6. Quality_
The material used to build the case. Aluminum, Acrylic ext.. I have a Thermaltake case here at the house that weights about 40Lbs+ and I have a case that weights probably 8 Lbs. Cheaper case generally have sharp edges inside so be careful.

ATX motherboard will work with full tower or mid tower but not a micro case, Micro ATX motherboard will work with any off them (well 99%)
Bottom line, any case will work. Make sure you have a decent PS, make sure you have adequate airflow (fan blowing in from the front and one blowing out rear) and you will be just fine no matter what case you use.

PC airflow and heat - a cooling guide: At a glance

THE HEATSINK GUIDE: Case Cooling

How To: Quiet Your PC Using Free Software

Cooling your Computer

_Edited by Cookiegal to fix scrolling problem for some users._


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## brite750

Good general guide, I dont bother with the out of case first thing, I install the stuff and fire it up in the case, if there is a problem then i may pull it out, but its so rare that you have a mounting issue if you take reasonable care.
You can get bargins on power supplies so that you dont have to spend a fortune, but as a general rule and unless you know what youre looking for its best to stick with the known good brands and spend the money.
The case/fan issue in general I agree with. I've had to work with a few cheapy cases and they are more trouble than theyre worth, if i tried to handle them as I would an Antec, or Thermaltake they will bend just from their own weight, price seems to be directly proportional to the gage thickness of sheet metal used to build the case, cheap case, thin sheet metal. In my case, a cheap Raidmax (<$50) was made with very thin sheet metal, thin plastic front, etc. where as a more costly Raidmax Sigatta case ($65) was very well made, thicker plastic, better fit & finish all around.
The fan issue is really not so simple as saying need a 120mm rear exhaust, for one thing not all fans are created equal, and for another some 80mm do a perfectly good job, case in point, client had an old silver grey colored Antec case from 4 years ago, with front 80mm and rear 80mm Antec fans, but he was only using it for a 754 pin Sempron2800+ with 6200AGP8x card, so no real heat was being generated by anything, the cpu temp sat at around 27C so even after hours of gaming the air coming out the exhaust was barely warm. 
What I'm getting at is, as a general guide this covered things well, especially for the less experienced, but as your knowledge level increases some deviation from this guide is ok.


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## Teck

But cases look pretty. Plus they are good for when you go to lan.


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## griffinspc

crjdriver, nicely done. No need for a critique. As always anything can be expanded on. See "Theory of Relativity".


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## Skivvywaver

Nice guide CRJ. Me?? I just buy a bunch of crap and toss it together without thought.


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## Teck

Skivvywaver said:


> Nice guide CRJ. Me?? I just buy a bunch of crap and toss it together without thought.


That's often the best info.


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## Jackiefrost9

just a thought... 
does anyone ever use any anti-static devices?
I never have.
I've shocked my newest mobo (my DQ6) 3 times so far.
I shocked my last computer 7 times.
Nothing happened after I did it... except I had to flash the bios.
am I just lucky or is the whole shock thing just overdone?


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## brite750

Jackiefrost9 said:


> just a thought...
> does anyone ever use any anti-static devices?
> I never have.
> I've shocked my newest mobo (my DQ6) 3 times so far.
> I shocked my last computer 7 times.
> Nothing happened after I did it... except I had to flash the bios.
> am I just lucky or is the whole shock thing just overdone?


its one of those things that we probably all recommend but never do. I just make sure I touch the case alot, dont shuffle, that sort of thing, I'm moving around too much to have some stupid wire attached to me. Like i said its good practice but let somebody else do it. The important thing seems to be, be at the same electrically charge as the case, when youre holding pcb's hold them by the edges, etc., have never, ever had a problem. Its almost impossible to walk up to your case and touch your ram or something without touching the case first anyway.


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## griffinspc

Used a strap once, that was enough. Looks good hanging on my wall though. Real techie.


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## Jackiefrost9

I should probably clarify that only 1 shock on the dq6 was static to case, and about 5 on my old computer were. The other 2 on the DQ6 were from starting it outside the case... i missed with the screwdriver lol. then I did it again about 30 second after. <--- retard.
same thing with my other one.

I thought I would share that lil piece of info.


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## vhab

May I add that motherboards.org has very good reviews of a lot of PC components, one of them being motherboards.

Some other good review sites:
Tomshardware.com
hardocp.com
newegg.com
While Newegg doesn't have professional reviews, they have many consumer reviews, which is helpful in telling you whether there are any problems with the item. Sometimes professional reviews overlook major bugs, and that's where actual consumer use will find falacies. Newegg is a good place to check products for bugs, etc.


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## vhab

Oh BTW, tests have shown that exhaust-only cases are actually the most efficiently cool. From a physicists point of view it's simple, as long as there is a hole or opening where air can flow through, as air is being taken out of the case, osmosis put room temp. air into the case from the opening. Intake fans just speed up the process. But like I said, the most efficient, i.e., most cooling with least fans.


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## brite750

vhab said:


> Oh BTW, tests have shown that exhaust-only cases are actually the most efficiently cool. From a physicists point of view it's simple, as long as there is a hole or opening where air can flow through, as air is being taken out of the case, osmosis put room temp. air into the case from the opening. Intake fans just speed up the process. But like I said, the most efficient, i.e., most cooling with least fans.


true, but i do like the way my Lian-Li is set up the hdd are right in front of a 120mm intake fan and it really does keep the hdd like 5-10 deg F cooler, other than that I agree

just to add you need to have more fans blowing out than in to keep the flow going


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## rexgrant

Hi all 
You have said it all.But if you go sli check out this link 
www.slizone.com/object/slizone2_build.html.
For all recommended parts psu ect.
Regards
Rex.


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## rexgrant

Here is my home build.water cooling not required on the new 7900 gtx gpu's they never get above 50c in this setup.Please note no soundblaster cards they caused me more trouble than they were worth.
Rex


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## Jackiefrost9

*bows to rexgrant*


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## rexgrant

Jackiefrost9 said:


> *bows to rexgrant*


Hi Jack.
Thanks,but the jpeg is to show that most people can build a pc these days.They just require the the money and the will to try.that is what I did. As they have been advised in the other posts you get what you pay for and the most expensive is not always the best for your use,so if you want to build your own pc, post on this site what you are going to use it for and I am sure some of the more experience people will help sort out the right case and parts.
regards
Rex


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## rexgrant

Jackiefrost9 said:


> just a thought...
> does anyone ever use any anti-static devices?
> I never have.
> I've shocked my newest mobo (my DQ6) 3 times so far.
> I shocked my last computer 7 times.
> Nothing happened after I did it... except I had to flash the bios.
> am I just lucky or is the whole shock thing just overdone?


Hi Jack.
What I use his a 13amp plug UK type 3pin I just connect the cable wires to the earth/ground
pin, plug it in and let the other end with the wires peeled back hang over my case while I work on it you are always moving it out of the way so you are always free from static.
Regards
Rex


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## Jackiefrost9

eh, i'm still not worried about it.
when I fry a board i will be more cautious, but untill then whatever.


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## Brum

Just a quick question about cooling a system.

I do know that to get the maximum airflow, one needs more exhaust fans than intake fans. I even set up my own system this way. It is just simple common sense.

In a system were overheating is not a problem, I read in an internet article that said to do the opposite. It stated that having more intake fans will increase the air pressure inside the case and make it harder for dust to collect. Just curious if anyone has ever tried this. My system depends to much on air flow to keep it cool, so I am kind of scared to try it. (Go figure, its an intel processor.)


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## brite750

Brum said:


> Just a quick question about cooling a system.
> 
> I do know that to get the maximum airflow, one needs more exhaust fans than intake fans. I even set up my own system this way. It is just simple common sense.
> 
> In a system were overheating is not a problem, I read in an internet article that said to do the opposite. It stated that having more intake fans will increase the air pressure inside the case and make it harder for dust to collect. Just curious if anyone has ever tried this. My system depends to much on air flow to keep it cool, so I am kind of scared to try it. (Go figure, its an intel processor.)


someone is thinking too much they are thinking of pressurized enclosures in dusty environments to keep dust out, but in the case of a pc you are sucking tons of air into the case so his reasoning is flawed.


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## brite750

best thing to do is to keep an eye on your pc inards, clear side door has other uses than just lighting effects


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## rexgrant

Brum said:


> Just a quick question about cooling a system.
> 
> I do know that to get the maximum airflow, one needs more exhaust fans than intake fans. I even set up my own system this way. It is just simple common sense.
> 
> In a system were overheating is not a problem, I read in an internet article that said to do the opposite. It stated that having more intake fans will increase the air pressure inside the case and make it harder for dust to collect. Just curious if anyone has ever tried this. My system depends to much on air flow to keep it cool, so I am kind of scared to try it. (Go figure, its an intel processor.)


Hi Brum.
I have never heard of that one Dust seems to be able to collect on the fan guards when the are blowing through it.I use filters on my 120mm intake fan And clean it about twice a week.
It is amazing were it all comes from.
Regards
Rex
:up:


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## brite750

rexgrant said:


> Hi Brum.
> I have never heard of that one Dust seems to be able to collect on the fan guards when the are blowing through it.I use filters on my 120mm intake fan And clean it about twice a week.
> It is amazing were it all comes from.
> Regards
> Rex
> :up:


if you have allergies, cough, cough, the doctor tells you all about how disgusting what looks like clean air is, pollution, dust mites, mold spores, pollen, pet dander, your own dead skin flakes, etc., I know....you can puke now


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## rexgrant

brite750 said:


> if you have allergies, cough, cough, the doctor tells you all about how disgusting what looks like clean air is, pollution, dust mites, mold spores, pollen, pet dander, your own dead skin flakes, etc., I know....you can puke now


Hi brite
True   
Regards
Rex
:up:


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## brite750

rexgrant said:


> Hi brite
> True
> Regards
> Rex
> :up:


LOL I was NOT happy to see close up pictures of a dust mite thanks doc, now I cant sleep at night


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## Mulderator

You know the real difficulty in building a computer is where there is a problem--I know it sounds simplistic, but if you build a puter and not run into any difficulties, aside from installing the CPU and heatsink, which is a bit daunting for the beginner, its is very simple.

I always suggest to people for their first build (people I know), come over to my house and do it together because its so much easier when there is someone who knows what he/she is doing. 

What I've found its these stupid little things that always screw people up--like when I bougth the wrong CPU for the motherboard and spend a half hour trying to figure out how in the hell to line up holes that wouldn't line up!  

Or the time I did not have the hard drive power cord plugged in and couldn't figure out why in the world I kept getting a disc boot failure on startup!  

Or like just recently when I had to replace the mobo on my Dell and I couldn't figure out why the same exact memory I had before didn't work. Well, I finally figured out that maybe one of the memory cards had gone bad between the time of taking it out and replacing the mobo--yep it did!  (but still on warranty at NewEgg! :up: ).

I mean all the stupid and not stupid errors I've run into over the years as endless as the stars--being good at trouble shooting a computer is really methodical--a process of step-by-step elimination, which is why the anal SOBs like crjdriver and JohnWill and Brite750 are good at it--because they are so damn anal!  The problem comes in though that when sometimes the permutations make it difficult to isolate the specific problem.

I had one build I tried everything--no matter what I tried the computer kept freezing up--I replaced everything--same problem--updated the BIOS--everything. Finally, I just ordred a new MOBO and no problems so it MUST have been the MOBO, but I still don't know for sure. So it can be very frustrating.


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## rexgrant

Mulder said:


> You know the real difficulty in building a computer is where there is a problem--I know it sounds simplistic, but if you build a puter and not run into any difficulties, aside from installing the CPU and heatsink, which is a bit daunting for the beginner, its is very simple.
> 
> I always suggest to people for their first build (people I know), come over to my house and do it together because its so much easier when there is someone who knows what he/she is doing.
> 
> What I've found its these stupid little things that always screw people up--like when I bougth the wrong CPU for the motherboard and spend a half hour trying to figure out how in the hell to line up holes that wouldn't line up!
> 
> Or the time I did not have the hard drive power cord plugged in and couldn't figure out why in the world I kept getting a disc boot failure on startup!
> 
> Or like just recently when I had to replace the mobo on my Dell and I couldn't figure out why the same exact memory I had before didn't work. Well, I finally figured out that maybe one of the memory cards had gone bad between the time of taking it out and replacing the mobo--yep it did!  (but still on warranty at NewEgg! :up: ).
> 
> I mean all the stupid and not stupid errors I've run into over the years as endless as the stars--being good at trouble shooting a computer is really methodical--a process of step-by-step elimination, which is why the anal SOBs like crjdriver and JohnWill and Brite750 are good at it--because they are so damn anal!  The problem comes in though that when sometimes the permutations make it difficult to isolate the specific problem.
> 
> I had one build I tried everything--no matter what I tried the computer kept freezing up--I replaced everything--same problem--updated the BIOS--everything. Finally, I just ordred a new MOBO and no problems so it MUST have been the MOBO, but I still don't know for sure. So it can be very frustrating.


Hi 
What I have done when I have run into a problem is to remove all the bits and start again,This usually works and as you say it dose not take long.
Regards
Rex


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## brite750

Mulder said:


> I mean all the stupid and not stupid errors I've run into over the years as endless as the stars--being good at trouble shooting a computer is really methodical--a process of step-by-step elimination, which is why the anal SOBs like crjdriver and JohnWill and Brite750 are good at it--because they are so damn anal!  The problem comes in though that when sometimes the permutations make it difficult to isolate the specific problem.
> 
> I had one build I tried everything--no matter what I tried the computer kept freezing up--I replaced everything--same problem--updated the BIOS--everything. Finally, I just ordred a new MOBO and no problems so it MUST have been the MOBO, but I still don't know for sure. So it can be very frustrating.


well maybe I'm anal about computers, buts thats as far as I go .......not that there's anything wrong with that

man, you said anal and elimination all in the same paragragh


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## Jackiefrost9

hey, if it wasn't for them being anal I wouldn't know half of what i do now.


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## Skivvywaver

Mulder said:


> You know the real difficulty in building a computer is where there is a problem--I know it sounds simplistic, but if you build a puter and not run into any difficulties, aside from installing the CPU and heatsink, which is a bit daunting for the beginner, its is very simple.
> 
> I always suggest to people for their first build (people I know), come over to my house and do it together because its so much easier when there is someone who knows what he/she is doing.
> 
> What I've found its these stupid little things that always screw people up--like when I bougth the wrong CPU for the motherboard and spend a half hour trying to figure out how in the hell to line up holes that wouldn't line up!
> 
> Or the time I did not have the hard drive power cord plugged in and couldn't figure out why in the world I kept getting a disc boot failure on startup!
> 
> Or like just recently when I had to replace the mobo on my Dell and I couldn't figure out why the same exact memory I had before didn't work. Well, I finally figured out that maybe one of the memory cards had gone bad between the time of taking it out and replacing the mobo--yep it did!  (but still on warranty at NewEgg! :up: ).
> 
> I mean all the stupid and not stupid errors I've run into over the years as endless as the stars--being good at trouble shooting a computer is really methodical--a process of step-by-step elimination, which is why the anal SOBs like crjdriver and JohnWill and Brite750 are good at it--because they are so damn anal!  The problem comes in though that when sometimes the permutations make it difficult to isolate the specific problem.
> 
> I had one build I tried everything--no matter what I tried the computer kept freezing up--I replaced everything--same problem--updated the BIOS--everything. Finally, I just ordred a new MOBO and no problems so it MUST have been the MOBO, but I still don't know for sure. So it can be very frustrating.


 I recommend everybody just go to Mulder's house when building a machine. The tech help ain't worth squat but Mulder buys the good booze. (He needs it, he is whupped)

Watching Mrs. Mulder make him load and unload the dishwasher, scrub the kitchen floors, say "Yes my Queen" is priceless. 

Actually and really, IMO the motherboard is the foundation of the machine. Know what you want from the machine and order the board that fills your needs. The board is more important than the processor.

Make sure, double sure your have enough clean power to power everything in the machine. There is no such thing as overkill in a PSU. Don't buy crap ram either. Check your mobo of choice to see what ram it will accept. Some boards are forgiving as hell and some will bite your arse if you do not read up......SUGGESTION, read up. Of course, test a minimal boot outside the case just to be certain you get a P.O.S.T.

 Do not buy a cheap arsed video card and 256 of system memory and wonder why your machine will not play the latest games. I laugh at you guys. "No soup for you".

Sit back, look at Mulder and say "what, no bartender here or what?"  HiYa Chris, I hope all is well ol bud.


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## Jackiefrost9

True story about not reading up on the RAM a motherboard will take.
On my newest machine I originally ordered ram with 4-4-4-12 timings and my motherboard wouldn't take it, so I had to ship it back and get some with 5-5-5-15 timings.
Ticked me off, but it was my fault.


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## loserOlimbs

Mulder:

My favorite is still when you wanted to run the AC vent directly in your PC!



akbillj said:


> Hello all, I am building an Intel based system, I have a D975xbx mainboard with a core2 duo E6300 processor. The box I decided on was a Thermaltake Tsunami and am going to add an after market power supply, Antec sp500 smart. I almost have everything here to start the build but I'm not understanding the Intel board manual where it says to not use the 2x2 to 2x4 connector for 12v power. My power supply is not here yet so I can't read up or look at the hardware first hand. Thanks for any help.


If you haven't already, start a new thread and post this info so we can help you.


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## jp1203

brite750 said:


> true, but i do like the way my Lian-Li is set up the hdd are right in front of a 120mm intake fan and it really does keep the hdd like 5-10 deg F cooler, other than that I agree
> 
> just to add you need to have more fans blowing out than in to keep the flow going


My older IBM Desktop has no exhaust fans, but keeps the PIII 600 at around 85F, 90 tops, and both drives almost never go past 100.

It's got a 120mm Intake in the front that blows air very strongly past the HDDs and onto the PCI/AGP cards, where the remainder goes out the side vents.

The PSU has a fan that blows intakes right through the PSU itself and blows on the processor through a tunnel thing (which I took out one day to see if it needed it-it heats up quite a lot without it, let's just leave it at that) What air is left directly hits the video card. Sort of funny to me that it keeps it that cool with only one truly decent fan (considering the heat of the air after it goes through the PSU)

On the new IBM (whos fans I have to control w/ speedfan, otherwise they don't spin at all for some odd reason) there is an exhaust, a PSU, and a CPU fan. The PSU blows on the processor (as it sits right on top), yet the Processor blows on the PSU. I have tried reversing the Processor fan, but for some reason it heats up worse that way  
I've never seen that processor go past 120 when the fans are spinning, usually it hovers around 95 though (but then, P4s run pretty hot) when the fans don't spin (if for some reason Speedfan didn't start, for instance) I've seen 180 and heard a horrible overheat warming chime. Don't want it to go that high again! I just wish I could figure out the fan issues...weird that I have to use speedfan to control them.


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## nitrowing

A note on static electricity:

It takes roughly 15,000 volts of static electricity build up to discharge from a person and be visible as a small spark and/or be felt.
It takes 5 volts to fry a microchip. You can fry it and not even have seen nor felt the spark.
A few moments to don a 'geeky' wrist strap or make sure you are discharged each time you go to touch a card or board is certainly worth the caution.


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## brite750

nitrowing said:


> A note on static electricity:
> 
> It takes roughly 15,000 volts of static electricity build up to discharge from a person and be visible as a small spark and/or be felt.
> It takes 5 volts to fry a microchip. You can fry it and not even have seen nor felt the spark.
> A few moments to don a 'geeky' wrist strap or make sure you are discharged each time you go to touch a card or board is certainly worth the caution.


we certainly would not stop anyone from using a wrist strap, we will just mock you and without the aluminum foil hat to go with it it is pointless.


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## jp1203

I've always just grounded myself, never fried anything w/ ESD...


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## doj

It doest matter how much air you suck out of your pc as long as air can get in it will. I only use fans that blow air out. As what goes out some must come in to replace it. I always get worried about the temperature thats getting drawn into the pc. ,,,, My wife likes it HOT,,,,, DOJ


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## msandi

If you go to TigerDirect.com and click on just about any computer part: barebones kit, motherboard, CPUs, and click on a specific item, at the bottom of the page there is usually a Tips & Technique link to a javascript window for Building a Computer. It's really good for advice about what items to choose for a particular purpose and what order to install components.

There is another link for their Troubleshooting Guide which helped me recently with a problem I had with my computer rebooting - it had to do with me recently installing a new heat sink over my CPU, I didn't use enough "gel". So I took it apart, spread it fully over the bottom of the heat sink where it meets the CPU and so far so good! I've had my computer on for over 15 hours, which is pretty good!


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## Whistlinphil

How much is too much to spend on used parts? I ask because my boss at work has CPUs from HP Pavillions (probably Pentium II or Celeron) and I want one to tinker with. I was thinking $40. Is that too much or not enough?


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## jp1203

Whistlinphil said:


> How much is too much to spend on used parts? I ask because my boss at work has CPUs from HP Pavillions (probably Pentium II or Celeron) and I want one to tinker with. I was thinking $40. Is that too much or not enough?


I'm going with WAY too much.
I'd honestly say about 5 bucks tops, since you can hack a working CPU off of just about anything you can possibly find. I have 3 CPUs on my keychain that I hacked out of machines and drilled holes in:

-166 MHz Original Pentium
-800 MHz Pentium III
-1.7 GHz Celeron

All of which came from

A) People who gave me machines to work on, and when I told them how much a new board would cost, they had me build them a whole new box instead and told me to keep the old one.

B) Machines I have found that were ready for the rubbish.

Try to find any junk machine and hack the CPU out of it. It's probably good.


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## Jackiefrost9

Whistlinphil said:


> How much is too much to spend on used parts? I ask because my boss at work has CPUs from HP Pavillions (probably Pentium II or Celeron) and I want one to tinker with. I was thinking $40. Is that too much or not enough?


A brand new celeron is 40 bucks, and that's a high end celeron, if there is such a thing. I like the $5 number. Or free, that works too.


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## jp1203

Exactly

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116031

37 for this OEM one, 39 for a similar non-OEM one


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## Jackiefrost9

What specific information? Keep it out here in the open forum so if someone else has the same question they can find it.


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## skyhigh007

So far I've got 
1. Seagate 500GB ATA Ultra ATA /100
2. ND-2500A NEC 16x DVD+- R/RW DL Drive
3. BIO Black ATX Computer Case

My question is what kinda of good reliable Motherboard, CPU and Power Supply supports the list i have above.


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## LANMaster

Nicky Butt has been banned.

We don't like spammers. I see no other reason or purpose to your post.


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## win2kpro

For anyone building their own system, I would highly recommend they spend an additional $15 and buy a PSU tester.

I have 4 testers, but use this tester most of the time since it will test a most of the leads.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3..._P4_Xeon_PCI-E_Floppy_4_pin.html?tl=g11c28s88

I test every PSU before I install it in the case. Although I rarely get a PSU that is DOA $15 can save you a lot of aggravation in troubleshooting PSU problems on new builds.


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## rawlls

Can anyone try to explain why AMD is more expensive than Intel motherboards,
and why is the "Striker Extreme" 2 x PCI Express x16 slot, support NVIDIA® SLI technology, at full x16, x16 speed(blue)1 x PCI Express x16, at x8 speed(middle)1 x PCI Express x12 x PCI 2.2 sounds better than the "COMMANDO" 2 x PCI-E x16 (@ x16 and x4 mode)4 x PCI 2.2.


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## Gulo Luseus

Striker is better because of O/C options, and its a cooler name.
Will let you know what striker is like as soon as mine arrives- hoping it rocks!! 
Incidentally, my case cost £187- thats, umm, about $400? And that was because it was less than retail ( currently about £400 I think- $800?)
Probably a bad thing to say, but has anyone added up what these damn computers cost? I worked mine out at about £1500 ( $3000) just for components, with another $800 for the new quad and mobo. And all so i can play games that little bit faster, and be able to post a good 3dmark06 score.
Any shrinks out there, give me a hint why i do it!!!


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## croesonen

Hi good posts can you do one on blue screens of death my computer keeps crashing and I can not under stand the codes do you :up:


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## mowersman

hi building a computer is sooooooo easy .im 13 and i've just built my first my only problem was the cost of the components


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## DrAW

Hey ya'll... I am working on building my first system... have done a lot of replacing parts in the past but have never gone from ground up to completion. Would you with more knowledge than I give your suggestions and input on the following build? I do a fair bit of video editing and Photoshop work but seldom any games. I want someting that will be fast and not be obsolete 5 hours after I plug it in. Would appreciate any suggestions. I am about ready to order.


CASE -- Lian Li PC-60A Plus II $118
MOTHERBOARD	ASUS P35 Blitz Extreme Crossfire $300.00 or
ASUS Striker Extreme $303.00
PROCESSOR	Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 (L2 cache = 4MB 2.66 GHz) $195.00
4 MB of RAM	Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4D 2GB DDR2-800 XMS2-6400 Dominator Series = $108.00
VIDEO CARD Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS (320 MB) $290.00
PSU	Enermax INFINITI 720W ATX12V and; EPS12V Computer Power Supply EIN720AWT, 80PLUS Certified, Active PFC, SLI and; Crossfire Ready, RoHS Compliant, Supports SATA and; PCI-E $169
HARD DRIVE Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3750640AS	SATA2 16 MB cache 750 GB $192.00


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## olamoree

Hi Guys,

Well, I have such an accumulation of "spare parts" that I thought that I would pick out the kewlist pieces, list them and see what you think I should be looking for in a Motherboard (altho I have an accumulation of m/b's too... some even with those funny long black slots at the bottom of the board! lol).

This "second" rig will replace the first if it performs better. I don't do games, but do a lot of surfing, writing, pictures, etc. with a LOT of proggys open 24/7.

Pwr Supply, got a dozen, and picked a Antec 450W w/20-24, Sata, 12vx2, etc.

CPU is AMD 64 X2 ADA3800AA5BV with good new Intel fan.

TWO 1G sticks DDR2 667 PC5300 B62U838 240 pin. Label peeled but has Blitz BGA chips, probably Micron D9GMH or KingMax or Mushkin...where the peeled labels were, it says "VOID" in white glue that stuck the label on thus voiding the probably lifetime warranty (any guesses?). They are pulls, tested and good. I also have a 1G stick of Kingston (KVR667D2N5) PC2-5300 CL5 240Pin Non ECC Unbuffered 1.8v SDRAM but that would be half the bang... would the 3 work together? 

Asus EN6200TC 128 PCI-e OR could use GF FX5200 128 DDR TV AGP 8X (Ver3.8) OR Leadtek WinFast PX6600TD Type2 PCI-e Video Card, all new-in-the-box to run a Samsung 215TW.

Am going to run XP SP2, have the HDD's, DVD/CD's etc., and even a Caleb 144 if I could find a driver for it.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice you care to post. 

Al


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## Nightfirecat

Ok... Yes-- you can use 3gigs even if they're not the same manufacturer... But I'd suggest checking the mobo website to see if the RAM was tested with the motherboard to see that it worked... I'd say for video card, if you're tied with memory, go for a pcie card, and if an AGP card has the most memory, pick that.
Nothing else that I can say for ya. Good luck putting together the spare parts


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## Pakku

Hi all

I have Intel's PentiumD915 processor, D102GCC2 Mob, 512 MB 533 Mhz DDR2 (UMAX)

I have two DDR2 slots. One is with 512 MB 533 Mhz DDR2 (UMAX) and other is free.
I want to upgrade my RAM. Should I go for another 1 GB or a 512 MB?
I heard that 2 similar kind of memory will do a better combo work.

Plz suggest ...........................................
thanx


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## Nightfirecat

Two similar will do better... I'd say though that you might want to just upgrade your current stick to 1g, and use the 512 as well, until you can get another 1g stick.

2g of dual-channel RAM is a beautiful sight to behold--trust me.


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## Ziggy587

Sorry if the link has already been posted, but I found this video on how to install a 775 Intel CPU and HSF. I thought it was a very good instuction video...


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## EnfoToad

Hey!
Crjdriver nice tutorial.


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## ia1980

2007 December

What are the recommended components for building a desktop now- the last were in 2004! - Maybe my first build????


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## shujinko

crjdriver said:


> Stay away from the non-intel chipsets for an intel cpu. These would be via, sis, or nvidia.


I can't speak to the other names above, but nVidia makes a fantastic Intel Core 2 Duo chipset, the 680i. It's a 4x Customer Choice Award winner. I have it myself running a Core 2 Duo, and it's one of the best motherboards I've ever had.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813188013


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## ia1980

Hi there
I wanted ALL the components that I need to build a PC over Christmas 
IA


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## rexgrant

Hi all.
OK Which way do we go from here 2nd January 2008. Do we go the way of Intel, if you require the fastest PC and the most expensive then yes, or do we prepare for the more stable and graphic compatible AMD to make its challenge.
Amd first attempt with the Quad CPU as serious bios problems and should be left alone for a while.
But the new Am3 is on the way. But don't rush into it at the moment. As a true AMD follower I have moved into the fray slowly check my spec.
If you do not require an upgrade at present wait for a couple of months to see the way AMD is going, You may save a lot of money and get a more advanced PC. This is just my opinion on the currant situation.
Happy new year to you all,
Rex


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## ferrija1

AMD is no more "graphic compatible" than Intel. For now, Intel is well ahead of AMD with their Core processors.


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## rexgrant

ferrija1 said:


> AMD is no more "graphic compatible" than Intel. For now, Intel is well ahead of AMD with their Core processors.


Hi ferrijal.
That is your opinion. What I said was mine:up:
Rex


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## ferrija1

rexgrant said:


> Hi ferrijal.
> That is your opinion. What I said was mine:up:
> Rex


Yes well it is a fact that AMD's processors are no more graphic compatible. There is no difference in what passes in and out of the processor socket (generally), the difference is in the processor itself.

Also, Intel's processors are slightly cheaper and faster than other's.


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## rexgrant

Hi again.
If you believe what you have just stated that is fine. But I believe what little I know about graphic stability in the two types of processors, and thanks to the Israelis, Intel has got the faster and more overclock able processor at the present time. But should you feel like going to work on the net You may just find out, that the majority of experts will say that nVidia chip sets work better with an AMD CPU as well as their own GPU. And the better AMD compatible mobo's are built on Nvidia Chip-sets. But this old brain of mine dose get things out of place now and again,
All the best 
Rex.
May I sugest you check intels core 2 prices against AMD I have just bought the fastest clocked stock CPU ever for under £100 UK
Not the fastest but in tests came no 3 to intelsE6850 @£175 and intels E6750 @£123 and the e6750 only just piped the amd 6400 by a whisker.


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## crjdriver

Gentlemen: Replying to a guide whether with your opinion or questions is not relevant. If you have a question, then start a new thread. Due to the less than adult behavior of the last few posts, I am now closing this thread.


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