# Flat Earthers - I have a question



## simian

This has been popping up all over these days and since these boards have a section for this kind of subject, I thought, what could go wrong? Right? (famous last words)

I do not subscribe to the theory or any related conspiracy that the earth is flat and somehow this would be _fact_ is being hidden from people.
What I do subscribe to is the idea that it is OK to discuss such controversy without risks of being burned at a stake, even if there is a flamewar somewhere. Oh the puns, sorry.

So I was cruising around the web, when suddenly some flat earther posted this.





So I watched it and ignored the fact that most of that is 3D out of what looks like some flight sim and I also ignored the fact that the lens used in some actual footage (yes they used some lens that distorts the round horizon upwards, as you can see in the beginning after the 3D fake stuff.) and you can see the atmosphere in the horizon at the left and right edges of screen is so far distorted that it goes up and that at stages the inclination of the camera shows the rounded horizon before being distorted into a visual and artificially created view. ITS OBVIOUS... But OK, Ill accept it for argument sake only.

And I kept ignoring various other tidbits until the video concludes with a list of reasons why these flat earthers believe they are being lied to.

At this point my chair broke as I fell out of it laughing and split my side.

We are all special, some more special then others, no matter what you believe in, this is clear by this Flat Earth Society members and their videos.

So I have a question to any known flat earthers.

Can you provide real footage that clearly shows the edges?
Can you provide real evidence of whats on the underside of this woodbe plane.
And if the moon is only a light and doesnt exist, how come you can see it on a telescope?
If theres free energy and the creator being hidden, is there a 110v/220v socket floating somewhere that the creator pays the bill for?
And if there is such a socket or source, how can I plug my stuff into it?

Come ON flat earhers, you have resources like planes, and boats not made of wood that you can send to investigate and document, and make credible not doctored documentary narrated by any credible naturalist and post it on TV/Web/Cable, its been centuries so where is your actual evidence (not fake videos like the above), and not some 50 million year old document, where is the contemporary scientifically backed documented evidence?

Surely after all this time, this evidence would be around, or did these people fall off the edge of the plane flat earth? Where they gobbled by a gigantic sea monster? If so where the evidence of that?

I have so many questions but lets see... if any gets answered.


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## Johnny b

I've wondered what mechanism flat earthers think that keeps the oceans from spilling over those edges and a flat Earth becoming one vast desert..

I suspect much of their Youtube shtick is about click bait and a potential Google payday.



> I have so many questions but lets see... if any gets answered.


:up:


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## Wino

I got nothing.


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## simian

Johnny-be-Good said:


> I've wondered what mechanism flat earthers think that keeps the oceans from spilling over those edges and a flat Earth becoming one vast desert..


Well, thats a very good question. We will never know... Do you think they are holding on to the facts so as to keep the rest of us from finding out we are special too?


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## Johnny b

Must be an exercise in intellectualism?.....


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## simian

Exercise, that already sounds like to much work, so didnt read any further, sorry.


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## Drabdr

I realize this is horribly archaic... but if there was an edge to the Earth... wouldn't it have been discovered by now?


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## Johnny b

Plus....with a really,really good telescope and a flat Earth.....would a person looking through it be able to see their backside?


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## Lanctus

I don't understand flat earth theory. It is easily disprovable through scientific experimentation. If the Sun really was right above us on a flat plane, then theoretically every shadow length on similar sized objects would be the same during the same time of day, no matter where on the planet. A 200' tower in New York would cast the same as a 200' tower in California at noon in New York. Why are there time zones that differentiate between hours of sunlight, if we're all not experiencing the Earth's curvature? Why would both towers show different shadow lengths? Someone "famous" spouting what they believe as "fact" is ridiculous, if they have no actual knowledge of the science or reasoning behind their belief. They display no more education on the subject than that conspiracy theorist arguing with you on the bus.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/7-diy-experiments-b-o-b-the-earth-is-round/


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## simian

They ignore basic science, fact. Yes they ignore facts too, unless they are 5000 years old, they are not current.


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## Johnny b

I don't see a good outcome for this experiment.

http://www.whio.com/news/local/cali...cket-prove-earth-flat/o4FC0iCcYInCtsdlXdTNrK/

* California man to launch homemade rocket to prove Earth is flat *












> A California man is planning to take a 500 mph flight in a homemade rocket to prove the Earth is flat.
> 
> Mike Hughes, a 61-year-old limousine driver, plans to launch himself 1,800 feet and fly one mile over the Mojave Desert in his rocket made from scrap metal, according to the Washington Post.
> 
> In 2014, Hughes was injured when he flew a quarter of a mile in his first manned rocket. He was dragged from the remains of the rocket and had to use a walker for two weeks, he said.
> Many believers envision the Earth is a flat disc ringed by sea ice, which naturally holds the oceans in, according to the Washington Post. What's beyond the sea ice, if anything, remains to be discovered.


Sad, imo.

And why not shoot pictures out the window of a high flying commercial airliner?
A whole lot safer.

Past flight


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## 2twenty2

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...els-rocket-launch-prove-earth-flat/894587001/

'Mad' Mike Hughes cancels rocket launch to prove Earth is flat when BLM seeks permits


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## Johnny b

I remember reading before the holidays, Hughes was a convert to flat Earth shortly before looking for funding for this last rocket ride.


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## hartdolly

Well, let's hear what flat earthers have to say -- I am open to different perspectives.


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## Johnny b

I'm interested in your current perspective.

Mine, obviously, is that I go with reality. For that, science is a good 'measuring stick'.


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## Wino

I'm thinkin' 'Flat Earther's' and Christians have much in common when it comes to leaps of faith.


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## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I'm thinkin' 'Flat Earther's' and Christians have much in common when it comes to leaps of faith.


At some point, some religions do appear cultish with a desperate need to 'convince'.
Much like this 'flat Earth' syndrome.


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## Lanctus

Without getting into religion, there is a big difference here. We know other dimensions exist, though we cannot always see or interact with them. This gets into String Theory and quantum physics. Could there be more than we experience in our 3 dimensional (4 dimensional if you include the element of Time) existence? We cannot discount it. Is the Earth flat? There is not a planetary body we have yet to see in the cosmos that ascribes to a "flat planetary mass of distinction", much less one with an atmosphere and "magical" sea ice that somehow keeps the entire pressure and mass of all the oceans combined within its borders, without melting from the Sun, or breaking and releasing the water into the void. Flat Earthers even recently admitted that Mars was a sphere, because it was observed as such. 

That's Science.


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## Johnny b

Lanctus said:


> Without getting into religion, there is a big difference here. We know other dimensions exist, though we cannot always see or interact with them. This gets into String Theory and quantum physics. Could there be more than we experience in our 3 dimensional (4 dimensional if you include the element of Time) existence? We cannot discount it. Is the Earth flat? There is not a planetary body we have yet to see in the cosmos that ascribes to a "flat planetary mass of distinction", much less one with an atmosphere and "magical" sea ice that somehow keeps the entire pressure and mass of all the oceans combined within its borders, without melting from the Sun, or breaking and releasing the water into the void. Flat Earthers even recently admitted that Mars was a sphere, because it was observed as such.
> 
> That's Science.


wino stipulated 'leaps of faith'.

There is an absence of physical evidence to the extreme beliefs of young Earth creationists and flat Earthers.
Point, there is physical evidence contrary to their beliefs.


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## Lanctus

Johnny-be-Good said:


> wino stipulated 'leaps of faith'.
> 
> There is an absence of physical evidence to the extreme beliefs of young Earth creationists and flat Earthers.
> Point, there is physical evidence contrary to their beliefs.


Exactly. The observation, study, knowledge, and measurement of the Universe is Science. It is not perfect and certainly does not know everything (or how it works), but it is the best measuring stick we have for what is going on around (and inside) us.


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## Lanctus

Honestly, all of us just one day "woke up" here, and we've spent our collective lives trying to figure out what the hell is going on.


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## Wino

Not I. Personally, 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' and have better things to spend my time on.


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## Johnny b

Think of the vet bills..........


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## Gulo Luseus

Lanctus said:


> We know other dimensions exist, though we cannot always see or interact with them. This gets into String Theory and quantum physics. Could there be more than we experience in our 3 dimensional (4 dimensional if you include the element of Time) existence?


Interesting.
Some theories require additional dimensions to work, but they are just theories. I have yet to see any proof that additional dimensions exist, and doubt very much that we ever will. Quantum theory also states that extra dimensions occur in extremely small places, and are local as opposed to "everywhere", so there effect (if they exist) could well be confined to these spaces, as opposed to affecting larger areas. In this case, the 3 dimensions we have in normal life could well be the only ones we will encounter. Similarly, parallel universes seem to be gaining as a theory but again it is only a theory.
Flat earthers have a right to their opinions- whether right or wrong doesnt matter. As said before, religion relies on faith and a complete rejection of anything that disagreeswith it, so why should flatters not be accorded the same grace?


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## Johnny b

To believe in anything is a right.
To impose a belief not so much.


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## Lanctus

I think Patton Oswalt said it best. 
*"You've gotta respect everyone's beliefs." No, you don't. That's what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone's beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is &*@king stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that's great, but I'm not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!"*


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## Johnny b

Lanctus said:


> I think Patton Oswalt said it best.
> *"You've gotta respect everyone's beliefs." No, you don't. That's what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone's beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is &*@king stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that's great, but I'm not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!"*




Yep....respect is a consideration that is earned.


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## Johnny b

He's baaaak!



https://science.slashdot.org/story/...cket-launch-predicts-super-bowl-sized-ratings



> Self-taught rocket scientist/daredevil "Mad" Mike Hughes will finally launch his homemade rocket in two weeks


And this time, it's strictly a vertical launch.
About 2000 feet.

He also seems to be running for governor of California.

Figures.


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## Lanctus

Johnny-be-Good said:


> He's baaaak!
> 
> 
> 
> https://science.slashdot.org/story/...cket-launch-predicts-super-bowl-sized-ratings
> 
> And this time, it's strictly a vertical launch.
> About 2000 feet.
> 
> He also seems to be running for governor of California.
> 
> Figures.


What boggles my mind (aside from the obvious about Earth being round), is that the Flat Earth Society acknowledges that Mars is a sphere "because it is observed as such", we can see the other planets, moons, and our Sun is round (most efficient shape in nature), yet they refuse to believe the Earth follows this pattern.


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## Brigham

What do the flat earthers say about the sight of earth from the moon? I suppose they subscribe to the "Moon landings conspiracy theory"


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## Lanctus

kensam said:


> I really don't know what to say anymore, the flat earthers are everywhere on the internet and spreading their belief . They need to be in ISS station, somebody must bring all of them to the ISS and see within their own eyes.


Like the old saying goes, "you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." You could have all the evidence in the world in front of someone, but if their mind is not capable of changing their beliefs when presented with contradicting evidence, or they simply refuse to, they will remain clinging to their ideas no matter how incorrect they are.


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## mburns

Johnny-be-Good said:


> I've wondered what mechanism flat earthers think that keeps the oceans from spilling over those edges and a flat Earth becoming one vast desert..
> 
> I suspect much of their Youtube shtick is about click bait and a potential Google payday.


Ok. Flat Earthers, How is it when at sea, with the proper magnification, a ship moving away from you will dissappear eventually and the last you will see of it is the uppermost parts of the ship as the bottom of the ship has already moved beyond the curve of the earth.

This is why in the day of the Great Wooden Sailing ships, if it was desired to set up a picket to locate the enemy, the ships were placed about 12 miles apart. Often less accounting for weather and signaling purposes.

This is also why International Waters at sea start at about 12 miles. It is the maximum distance that one can see a ship.

So... there you have it.


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## RT

If Buzz Aldrin were here, somebody would get punched in the face, resulting in the Flattened Nose Theory!


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## mburns

RT said:


> If Buzz Aldrin were here, somebody would get punched in the face, resulting in the Flattened Nose Theory!


 Old Buzz is a shameless self-promoter but he don't take no mess when is comes to the US walking on the moon and I'll bet will show no more patience for anyone seriously thinking dat' da' earf is flat. lol


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## Johnny b

Guess who made the news flying his own rocket?



* Flat-Earther's steam-powered rocket lofts him 1,875 feet up into Mojave Desert sky *
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-rocket-man-blast-20180325-story.html

Last lines are precious:



> His future plans are simple: Fill out the paperwork to run for governor.
> 
> "This is no joke," Hughes said. "I want to do it."


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## Lanctus

kensam said:


> LoL this is ridiculous, why you trust science when you do not believe in science, i mean how can someone make a rocket without a science knowledge, if you trust science it mean you must admit the earth is not flat


There is a reason there is a difference between Intelligence and Wisdom.


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## Johnny b

Indeed, but for those with little intelligence, wisdom is irrelevant


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## Wino

Don't laugh.........................he could be our next president. LOL


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## Johnny b

And then there was this:

https://www.livescience.com/62220-millennials-flat-earth-belief.html

* A Third of Young Millennials Are Confused About This Incontrovertible Fact *



> Only 66 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds in the U.S. are confident that the world is round, according to a new national survey.




(sigh!)


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## Johnny b

OK......I hope the TSG censor isn't offended by some of the terms I'm about to refer to, but they are being used in serious psychological terms.

I first ran into the term here concerning those zany flat Earthers (and various conspiracy theorists) and why they appear out of their minds:

A video posted in an Arstechnica article:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/11/why-does-flat-earth-belief-still-exist/





And at the end of it, the technical term used was "BS Receptivity".
And the claim made that it was a serious, factual psychological term.

So I did a search on it and made the connection to "fake news".

Setting up the scene:

* Schizotypy and bull**** receptivity predict belief in conspiracy theories *
https://www.psypost.org/2018/09/sch...y-predict-belief-in-conspiracy-theories-52193


> New research provides evidence that belief in conspiracy theories is more likely among people with certain personality traits and cognitive styles. The study appears in the Journal of Individual Differences.


The 'hit'

* Who falls for fake news? The roles of bull**** receptivity, overclaiming, familiarity, and analytic thinking *

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3023545



> Abstract
> 
> Inaccurate beliefs pose a threat to democracy and fake news represents a particularly egregious and direct avenue by which inaccurate beliefs have been propagated via social media. Here we present three studies (MTurk, N = 1,606) investigating the cognitive psychological profile of individuals who fall prey to fake news.


Flat Earthers and Trumpites obviously suffer from the same bizarre psycho/mental disorders 

And now we know why they both embrace the insane...."BS Receptivity"


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## Wino

Groping through life with a broken BS Meter must really suck !!


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## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Groping through life with a broken BS Meter must really suck !!


LOL!

Yep!


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## RT

Wino said:


> Groping through life with a broken BS Meter must really suck !!


Some meters do require re-calibration at certain intervals ...


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## Guyzer

The earth has to be flat. If you happen to be a longhaul driver you can't 
legally drive from the eastern to western border ( or vice versa ) of Montana in one day.
I'm sure if you made it before nightfall you'd drive off the edge cuz you sure
can't see it during the day.


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## RT

Seeing is believing Guy 
I got _Close to the Edge_ once... 
back in '70s, didn't exactly fall off the Earth, went somewhere though.... but I'm pretty sure that's a totally different subject


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## Johnny b

I remember traveling through Montana on a motorcycle.
The crosswinds were horrific.
I often wondered where they disappeared to?


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## Guyzer

RT said:


> Seeing is believing Guy
> I got _Close to the Edge_ once...
> back in '70s, didn't exactly fall off the Earth, went somewhere though.... but I'm pretty sure that's a totally different subject


Oh man that's some scary stuff. I think I took that same trip.................


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## valis

RT said:


> Seeing is believing Guy
> I got _Close to the Edge_ once...
> back in '70s, didn't exactly fall off the Earth, went somewhere though.... but I'm pretty sure that's a totally different subject


okay, that one got me laughing....


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## bobc

Contrary to the skepticism evidenced before, the world as we know it is indeed flat, being a flat disc of approximately 43 KM diameter. When any edge of the disc is approached, the approachee is subjected to the Edge Effect of the disc. 
The edge effect in photon detection is the phenomenon in which the number of secondary and/or backscattered photons that escape the sample and reach the detector is higher at an edge than at a surface. The interaction volume spreads far below the surface, but secondary photons can only escape when close to the surface (generally about 10 nm, although this depends on the material). However, when the photon beam impacts an area close to the edge, photons that are generated below an impact point that is close to an edge but that is far below the surface may be able to escape through the vertical surface instead.
In the case of the World Disc, the detector is the eye of the approachee and the sample is, of course, the World Disc. The relevant vertical surface is the diameter of the disc. The approachee therefore "escapes" at light speed through the diameter of the disc to the opposite corresponding point on the circumference, creating the illusion of having travelled around a globe as opposed to having simply relocated to the other side of the disc.
As edge phenomenon is a universal physical constant and not a biological function, this explains why other things (e.g. the seas) do not fall off of the edge.
Aeroplanes, birds, and flying insects, operating above the plane of the disc, are subject to an additional force, in conjuction with edge effect, being gravitational accretion. This is the edge effect on gravity which increases gravitational pull towards the edge, thereby drawing flying objects downwards towards the plane of the disc at the edge where edge effect then takes over. Gravitational accretion also works to subject air currents and the like to edge effect.
Despite the above, "round worlders" continue to believe that the world is round (when what they mean is that the world is a sphere).
Common sense tells us that the world could not possibly be a sphere as, if it were, it would roll off the edge of space, which is, as we all know, flat.


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## valis

Wow. All I got to say on that, other than it was an amusing read.


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## Johnny b

I, in particular, appreciated that last sentence. 
The appeal to common sense.

:up:

That I could embrace


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## Wino

Well, I just rolled outta my chair. This certainly explains the Trump Effect.


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## Chawbacon

bobc said:


> Contrary to the skepticism evidenced before, the world as we know it is indeed flat, being a flat disc of approximately 43 KM diameter.


Umm.... Trying to understand here.... 

So you are saying that both sides of this flat disk that we call Earth would consist of an area covering 46 total Kilometers in diameter ? 
What is theorized to be on the opposite side of the 43 KM disk?


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## Johnny b

Chawbacon said:


> Umm.... Trying to understand here....
> 
> 
> .........................
> What is theorized to be on the opposite side of the 43 KM disk?


Tree roots


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## Wino

Pretty sure it's that alternate universe of facts and figures the Trumpers so ardently covet !!


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## bobc

It was not my intention to make further contribution to this thread but as Chawbacon has not only asked a question, but introduced some error, I feel compelled to respond.


Chawbacon said:


> Umm.... Trying to understand here....
> 
> So you are saying that both sides of this flat disk that we call Earth would consist of an area covering 46 total Kilometers in diameter ?
> What is theorized to be on the opposite side of the 43 KM disk?


. The World Disc has a diameter of approximately 43KM, not 46, as you have introduced. But hey, lets not argue about a few KM, after all, there are those who say that the true diameter is 42Km, which as we all know, is the answer to life, the universe and everything. In either event, the area would be 1,452 Km2 or 1,385 Km2, which is a lot smaller than the Round Worlders would have us believe to be the area of the world.
. There are those who believe that there are four large elephants on the reverse side of the disc, not to mention a large turtle, but this is obvious fiction, doubtless introduced by Round Worlders in an effort to ridicule the principle of a flat earth. As Johnny B says, there are probably some tree roots, but no one really knows as no one has been there, although the Russians are trying. The Kola Superdeep Borehole has allegedly reached 40,230 feet but might have a long way to go yet. Should they succeed then they may have found a way to circumvent the Edge Effect (for what purpose no one is really sure although it is bound to be military) although there is also a concern that the atmosphere would drain away through such a hole. Such fears have given rise to the current popular scientific fiction of black holes, but that is another story.


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## Johnny b

Either one heck of a windup ( which I found entertaining ) or as posted earlier, one heck of an example of BS receptivity.

Either way ... :up: ..


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## Johnny b

What if the Earth really was flat?
Hold on! 
Here we go. LOL!

* What Would Happen if the Earth Were Actually Flat? *

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2018/01/24/flat-earth-what-would-happen/

Too much to copy and paste, but worth the while to read it if only for the chuckles and grins.
But this lead in says it all. 



> If Earth were flat, you'd know it, because a lot of things would work differently.




I will admit, flat earth physics is interesting in a very perverse manner


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## Johnny b

A little known fact, the Kola Superdeep Borehole is not the deepest borehole. It does seem to get most of the press, though.
The Al Shaheen oil well in Qatar is a little deeper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Shaheen_Oil_Field
And it also set a record for horizontal reach.

No issues. The atmosphere is safe and no problems from tree roots


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## bobc

Hi Johnny b.
I took a look at that link. https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2018/01/24/flat-earth-what-would-happen/ . Scary. If some of the people that posted there actually believe what they posted (or even understand what they posted) then perhaps there are four Elephants and a Turtle after all! I guess we might find out when the Russians break through (if the oil well doesn't make it first).


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## Johnny b

bobc said:


> Hi Johnny b.
> I took a look at that link. https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2018/01/24/flat-earth-what-would-happen/ . Scary. If some of the people that posted there actually believe what they posted (or even understand what they posted) then perhaps there are four Elephants and a Turtle after all! I guess we might find out when the Russians break through (if the oil well doesn't make it first).


LOL!

Reality beats techno babble .



> The edge effect in photon detection is the phenomenon in which the number of secondary and/or backscattered photons that escape the sample and reach the detector is higher at an edge than at a surface.


And that has nothing to do as an explanation for flat earther claims of what is essentially teleportation from one ice dam boundary to an opposite ice dam boundary when traveling in a straight line.

To prove teleportation exists beyond the quantum realm, you have to demonstrate it.

And that hasn't happened. Nor has it been perceived as a phenomenon.
You'd like to exhibit photons as an example, but they are quantum objects. And don't behave the same as normal matter.
Photons= quantum object
Human body= normal matter
Maybe you haven't noticed. Quantum objects don't always adhere to the same physics as normal matter?

So...technobabble is the name of the game for flat earthers.
It's merely the imaginations of scientific writers, and some fundamentalist's trying to rationalize the 4 corners mentioned in the Bible.

Technobabble 

No matter how hard you try, you can not prove what does not exist, that being, a flat earth.
It's just your belief in technobabble. 

And you do it up well


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## bobc

Lol. Mixing up a bit of reality with a load of bull**** is meat and veg for "bears of little brain". The stuff about edge effect is actually quite accurate as applied to electrons in electron microscopy but has nothing (as far as I am aware) to do with photons or a flat earth. I'm off to feed the elephants now. Ta ta.


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## Johnny b

bobc said:


> Lol. Mixing up a bit of reality with a load of ******** is meat and veg for "bears of little brain". The stuff about edge effect is actually quite accurate as applied to electrons in electron microscopy but has nothing (as far as I am aware) to do with photons or a flat earth. I'm off to feed the elephants now. Ta ta.


It's your argument, not mine 



bobc said:


> .....................
> 
> . When any edge of the disc is approached, the approachee is subjected to the Edge Effect of the disc.
> The edge effect in photon detection is the phenomenon in which the number of secondary and/or backscattered photons that escape the sample and reach the detector is higher at an edge than at a surface. The interaction volume spreads far below the surface, but secondary photons can only escape when close to the surface (generally about 10 nm, although this depends on the material). However, when the photon beam impacts an area close to the edge, photons that are generated below an impact point that is close to an edge but that is far below the surface may be able to escape through the vertical surface instead.
> In the case of the World Disc, the detector is the eye of the approachee and the sample is, of course, the World Disc. The relevant vertical surface is the diameter of the disc. The approachee therefore "escapes" at light speed through the diameter of the disc to the opposite corresponding point on the circumference, creating the illusion of having travelled around a globe as opposed to having simply relocated to the other side of the disc.
> As edge phenomenon is a universal physical constant and not a biological function, this explains why other things (e.g. the seas) do not fall off of the edge.
> Aeroplanes, birds, and flying insects, operating above the plane of the disc, are subject to an additional force, in conjuction with edge effect, being gravitational accretion. This is the edge effect on gravity which increases gravitational pull towards the edge, thereby drawing flying objects downwards towards the plane of the disc at the edge where edge effect then takes over. Gravitational accretion also works to subject air currents and the like to edge effect...........................


LOL!

You even used teleportation with *Aeroplanes, birds, and flying insects *.



> he approachee therefore "escapes" at light speed through the diameter of the disc to the opposite corresponding point on the circumference, creating the illusion of having travelled around a globe as opposed to having simply relocated to the other side of the disc.


Yep....that's teleportation, flat earther style 



> As edge phenomenon is a universal physical constant and not a biological function, this explains why other things (e.g. the seas) do not fall off of the edge.


I'm curious. Where did you read of this?



> I'm off to feed the elephants now.


Say hello for me


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## Johnny b

bobc said:


> ....
> 
> . The World Disc has a diameter of approximately 43KM.


Have you thought this out. Seriously.
43 km is about 27miles.
Have you ever thought while driving on an Interstate Highway( in the USA for example), why aren't you seeing a repetition of scenery every 27 miles?

(That line was tough to type, I was laughing so darn hard  )

Ever consider how difficult it would be to pack 7 billion humans into a world that small?

There isn't enough room even if you included the flip side !


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## Guyzer

I have a brain pain now......


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## valis

Guyzer said:


> I have a brain pain now......


My dads sisters son is a flat earther; firmly believes Australia doesnt exist too. His mom (my aunt, but loopier than a corkscrew) passed recently and I got to meet him again. I made it almost five minutesbefore I had to leave. Just no talking to those folks.

What really sucks is he procreated and both his kids are very, very messed up.


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## Johnny b

Thing is, on a topic like this you never know if the argument, especially one of extensive technobabble, is a windup or a serious attempt.
A buddy of mine is looking to make some coinage off of Youtube videos and use something controversial as clickbait.
Problem is he can't find something stupid enough that hasn't already been taken.


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## Johnny b

valis said:


> My dads sisters son is a flat earther; firmly believes Australia doesnt exist too. .....................


If that were true, I wouldn't exist.
Tough break, that


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## valis

Johnny b said:


> Thing is, on a topic like this you never know if the argument, especially one of extensive technobabble, is a windup or a serious attempt.
> A buddy of mine is looking to make some coinage off of Youtube videos and use something controversial as clickbait.
> Problem is he can't find something stupid enough that hasn't already been taken.


Well, I got this cousin, who knows this Nigerian prince with some financial issues....


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## valis

Johnny b said:


> If that were true, I wouldn't exist.
> Tough break, that


Didnt we discuss your habit of solipsism in the past?


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## valis

@bobc...honest question here...how do you explain gravity from a physics standpoint?


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## bobc

For the avoidance of doubt, it's a wind up. I do not really believe that the world is flat, except, of course, on the "topside". The world is really a quasi Tipler Cylinder of infinite depth of which the "top" surface is the world. The Russians haven't a hope in hell of reaching the bottom (and nor do the tree roots). Rumour has it that there is something called Australia down there somewhere but I don't know about that. I had an ancestral relative who was deported to Australia but I think that was just a story for kids and that they really just threw him off the edge. I have a neighbour who claims to come from Australia but she talks funny and so is obviously deranged.

Now here is an alternative theory. We all live on the surface of a big ball that spins in circles around another big ball, and that big ball is on fire. And the moon is another big ball that spins around the big ball that we live on. And there are lots of other big balls that are all spinning around other big balls and all of this takes place in a really really big place with nothing in it called space. Well, that's an awfull lot of balls to consider.


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## bobc

valis said:


> @bobc...honest question here...how do you explain gravity from a physics standpoint?


Simple explanation - it is the force that attracts two or more particles together.

For a more detailed explanation - Wiki has a fair enough explanation with links to further reading if you want it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity


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## Johnny b

valis said:


> Didnt we discuss your habit of solipsism in the past?


I had that part of me removed


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## Johnny b

bobc said:


> For the avoidance of doubt, it's a wind up. .........................


A good one  ..... :up:


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## valis

Johnny b said:


> I had that part of me removed


So many LOLs....good on you, JBG.


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## valis

bobc said:


> Simple explanation - it is the force that attracts two or more particles together.
> 
> For a more detailed explanation - Wiki has a fair enough explanation with links to further reading if you want it.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity


Question is, given that wind-up (worthy of Valenzuela btw) how much of that stuff do you really believe? Do you believe in moon landings? Scientology? That some omnipotent being watches over us? That Anna Nicole married for love?


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## bobc

valis said:


> Question is, given that wind-up (worthy of Valenzuela btw) how much of that stuff do you really believe? Do you believe in moon landings? Scientology? That some omnipotent being watches over us? That Anna Nicole married for love?


Well now. I wouldn't like to give too much away you know, but since you ask nicely I will give truthful answers - 
Moon landings - Yes (beats me how they didn't fall off though).
Scientology - No, no, and no again.
Omnipotent being - apart from Terry Pratchet - No (but I suppose that in an infinite universe one can't rule the possibility out)
Anna Nicole - There are quite a few of them. I would surmise that some of them did.


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## valis

Terry Pratchet (as well as the turtles all the way down reference) gives a ton away.

Anna Nicole was a Levon Helm reference. Sorta bored here.

Thanks for the truthful response.


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## Brigham

solipsism
It is a long time since I have seen that word. For some reason it took me back to a sci fi story about a boy in a community that everyone had to placate, to avoid being snuffed out.


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## Johnny b

It's quite the rage these days in DC


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## RT

I know our world is flat, even thought it seems like a flat sphere..
Even in my workshop, when the scientific level tells me all is even,
every nail I drive, every screw I try to set skews off by varying degrees, proving that a gravitational IN-constant is at work.
Sometimes when the moon is right, gravitational flux can make you injure yourself as forces draw the hammer to your thumb or finger, resulting in an ancient chant and dance, calling upon various deities with various implications as to the ultimate destiny of your soul (and finger.)
Were the Earth round, every nail and screw would go in straight, esp towards the center mass of the planet., but not on the outer limits of a flat earth.

But they do not, suggesting the closer to the center of the planet's mass, the straighter the fasteners would fasten.
Being near the edge, gravity would attract the nails toward the center of gravity, causing misalignment, and would lessen as you neared the edge, perhaps causing nails and screws, bolts, and the like to be flung from the edge of the Earth, towards a stronger out side gravity field, over the edge, and can you couldn't do a damn thing about it.

On the other hand, 'tis a poor craftsman that blames his tools (or location)


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## Johnny b

The logic of flat earthers reminds me of a pot joke from years ago:

How many pancakes does it take to build a dog house?
None!
Alligators can't fly.


A winner


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## valis

Brigham said:


> solipsism
> It is a long time since I have seen that word. For some reason it took me back to a sci fi story about a boy in a community that everyone had to placate, to avoid being snuffed out.


This? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)


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## Wino

Johnny b said:


> The logic of flat earthers reminds me of a pot joke from years ago:
> 
> How many pancakes does it take to build a dog house?
> None!
> Alligators can't fly.
> 
> A winner


Spoken like a true 'stoner' !! LOL


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## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Spoken like a true 'stoner' !! LOL


sigh!

There was only one and it took an exorcism to get rid of him


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## Wino

Johnny b said:


> sigh!
> 
> There was only one and it took an exorcism to get rid of him


The moniker may have been exorcised, but not the essence.


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## Johnny b

Thank you


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## Wino

De nada !!

https://www.cnet.com/news/youtube-to-blame-for-rise-in-flat-earthers-says-study/

Ignorance is not an opinion. Still say this coincides with the rise of Orange Mushroom.


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## Johnny b

Wino said:


> ..................
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/youtube-to-blame-for-rise-in-flat-earthers-says-study/
> 
> Ignorance is not an opinion. Still say this coincides with the rise of Orange Mushroom.


I have noticed the Google mechanism used for their search engine has degraded significantly over the last decade.
I suspect the searches have become weighted too much towards advertising revenue.

Often I have to clear my browser history when altering search terms or I get the same results. :down:

As to the reign of Trump....like the computer community has claimed for at least 50 years, garbage in, garbage out.



> Ignorance is not an opinion.


Agree absolutely.
But (there's always a but  ) it's is becoming a way of life


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## Brigham

valis said:


> This? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)


I seem to remember it from a magazine in the 50's when I was reading nothing but sci fi, but that's the one.


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## Guyzer

valis said:


> My dads sisters son is a flat earther; firmly believes Australia doesnt exist too. His mom (my aunt, but loopier than a corkscrew) passed recently and I got to meet him again. I made it almost five minutesbefore I had to leave. Just no talking to those folks.
> 
> What really sucks is he procreated and both his kids are very, very messed up.


Oh man it's really starting to hurt now.

My late father in law was nuttier that a fruit cake and .... geez I caught myself almost doing it again. 
Not gunna go there. Just ain't a'gunna do it.

5 minutes would have been a record for me. I couldn't be in the same room as him. The air stunk.
Sorry... it got away on me again.


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## Guyzer

Johnny b said:


> Thing is, on a topic like this you never know if the argument, especially one of extensive technobabble, is a windup or a serious attempt.
> A buddy of mine is looking to make some coinage off of Youtube videos and use something controversial as clickbait.
> Problem is he can't find something stupid enough that hasn't already been taken.


He could always talk about Trump. There's something new on that front daily and enough wack jobs to enjoy a never ending diatribe. 
I mean... I'm Canadian and I haven't tired of it yet. * wink... wink ***


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## Guyzer

bobc said:


> For the avoidance of doubt, it's a wind up. I do not really believe that the world is flat, except, of course, on the "topside". The world is really a quasi Tipler Cylinder of infinite depth of which the "top" surface is the world. The Russians haven't a hope in hell of reaching the bottom (and nor do the tree roots). Rumour has it that there is something called Australia down there somewhere but I don't know about that. I had an ancestral relative who was deported to Australia but I think that was just a story for kids and that they really just threw him off the edge. I have a neighbour who claims to come from Australia but she talks funny and so is obviously deranged.
> 
> Now here is an alternative theory. We all live on the surface of a big ball that spins in circles around another big ball, and that big ball is on fire. And the moon is another big ball that spins around the big ball that we live on. And there are lots of other big balls that are all spinning around other big balls and all of this takes place in a really really big place with nothing in it called space. Well, that's an awfull lot of balls to consider.


The world is full of big balls fyi and if you ever use that term " Tipler Cylinder " again I'm going to call you on it and 
take you for a ride on mine.


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## Johnny b

An interesting discussion about the mentality of flat earthers and their connection to other crackpot theories:

* Earth is (always has been) round, so why have the flat-out wrong become so lively? *

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...hats-inflated-flat-earth-believers-in-2019/2/



> The anti-expert age is now in full swing. As Anne Applebaum succinctly put it in the Washington Post, "We live in an age that denigrates knowledge, dislikes expertise and demonizes experts." In his book The Death of Expertise, Tom Nichols adds: "Americans have reached a point where ignorance-at least regarding what is generally considered established knowledge in public policy-is seen as an actual virtue."


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## RT

Johnny b said:


> Earth is (always has been) round, ~


If I recall my geo-science, I believe the Earth is known as an "oblate spheroid" which is pretty specific terminology.
But for the purposes of this discussion, I think any term referring to "round-ish" or "flat-ish" will do, doncha think?


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## valis

Rotational spin causes that; wider hips, narrower extremites. All celestial bodies have that. 

Because they are ROUND.

10 gets you 1 a vast majority of flat earthers are anti vaxxers. Idiots to a point.


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## RT

valis said:


> wider hips, narrower extremites. All celestial bodies have that.


Gawd Tim, you're not bringing women into this are ye?


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## valis

Well, geometry is geometry. 

No but seriously, as I am sure you know, it is just physics. Like a figure skating spin, or a gyroscope. Angular velocity does make the world go round, eh?


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## RT

Ah! so that's why Doritos come in a (more or less) triangular shape!

It is said there's another thing that makes the world go "round," but it's not exactly physics, there are numerous reports...
the explatiation remains vague,
think they made some TV show or documentary about that sorta of phenomena


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## Bastiat

Why are you making fun of flat earthers, they make the world go round (pun intended). It these extremes of mental deranged thinking that allow for snorts and giggles while standing in line at the DMV talking with the great unwashed mouth breathing Trump supporters. Understand, these people found high school to be a challenge.


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## Johnny b

Something we can all agree on.
Easy targets


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## Johnny b

Didn't want to start a new thread just for this, but it's just as stupid as the flat earthers.

Moon Truthers/Moon hoaxers still exist.

* On 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 landing, here's why 'moon truthers' still exist *

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/on-...-why-moon-truthers-still-exist-192910197.html

Also of interest:

*How Moon Landing Conspiracy Theories Spread Before the Internet *

https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/how-moon-landing-conspiracy-theories-spread-before-the-1835483705


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## Johnny b

Conspiracy theorist punched by Buzz Aldrin


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## pyman

Perhaps the flat earthers could explain why my pencil keeps rolling of my desk!....... and don’t give me that blurb about things being level, if the earth is flat, surely everything in it must be flat: isn’t that the same logic as flat earthier use?


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## Guyzer

pyman said:


> Perhaps the flat earthers could explain why my pencil keeps rolling of my desk!....... and don't give me that blurb about things being level, if the earth is flat, surely everything in it must be flat: isn't that the same logic as flat earthier use?


It's the wind doin' it. Not earth type wind but hot air type coming outa some blowhard.


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## Wino

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ies-homemade-rocket-launch-filmed-tv-n1141286


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## Johnny b

That eventuality was almost guaranteed.
I'd rather not have read about it.
I don't know how serious he really was about believing the Earth was flat, but he was a dreamer with a goal and he tried his best.


RIP, Daredevil Mike Hughes


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## Wino

Seemed a bit Quixotic to me plus a death wish, more than a dream. To each his own.


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## Johnny b

I think a lot of that was probably mostly self promotion, a way to get attention.


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## Wino

He surely won't be doing it again. His last splash at getting attention and he'll never know what ensued.


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## Johnny b

I saw the video.
His chute deployed on take off and was instantly destroyed.


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## Johnny b

Just a followup article on the Flat Earth mentality.

* 'Mad' Mike Hughes' Last Ride: Inside a Flat-Earther's Doomed Mission *
https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...racy-theory-mike-hughes-book-excerpt-1299767/

Bonkers, of course......









( Digitally manipulated image of moon casting shadow on flat earth. )

That's really sad.


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