# Anyone have any advice or experience with subleasing a plan?



## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm guessing that most members here are from the USA. I recently bought my first smart phone and a two year plan from a company called FIDO. I think they operate mostly in Canada. They are a subsiduary of the largest cable company in Canada (called Rogers) and they play just as many "dirty tricks" as do Rogers.

I agreed to this plan 3 weeks ago and in those 3 weeks, I have learned plenty of dirty tricks that these kinds of companys engage in. By the way, is it appropriate to call these kinds of compnies ISPs? Or is there a diff name for companies that provide smart phones and cellular data plans?

Anyway, I don't know how likely it is that many people here have had any experience with FIDO or have even heard of it.

But, I regret having signed up for a two-year plan. I sure do wish I could back out of it for several reasons. Probably to many to describe here. There is really nothing much wrong with their phones or the pricing on their plans. But I sure would have liked to have gotten a different phone now that I know a little more about things. I also sure would have liked to have gotten a different plan now. If anyone wants to know why I feel this way, I'll be glad to explain any specific issues. But in this thread I'd like to ask whether anyone has had any experience with subleasing a phone or plan.

What are the odds I can sublease my phone (a Samsung Galaxy S4) or my plan? The plan gives me unlimited Canada-wide phone minutes as well as text messaging and 2GB monthly of data. I pay $70 monthly (plus tax).

Any advice for me on how to go about subleasing? I checked with the company and they said all I have to do is have the person to whom I will sublease provide them with identification over the phone.

However, one of the main reasons why I want to get out of this plan is that FIDO always says one thing at first, but then when I try to follow up, they find a way to make it more difficult and more expensive.

It's easy to make changes if those changes mean more money for the company (like an upgrade). But if you try to downgrade or do anything that will result in less money for them, they will fight like Heck to prevent you from doing that. Just one of the reasons why I don't want to renew my contract with them.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Has it been 15 days? Because you have 15 days to cancel the service in Canada. Also, have the terms of service changed since you signed up? If so that can also get you an option to cancel. 

I have several friends with Fido and they never have issues with their service or support.

In any case, find someone to take over your plan and go to a Fido kiosk in a mall or call Fido and have them take over the contract. There's always tons of people on Kijiji looking for people to take over contracts and I assume since the ads disappear that they are finding people to take over their contracts, you can put up an ad if you don't know anyone personally who'd want to take it over. Or pay upgrade free for a different phone or the cancellation fee. You can pay the fee, which should be the cost of the phone and then try selling the phone too.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Yes. Unfortunately, it's been three weeks. Perhaps I should explain some of the reasons. Here is just one of them. I'm sorry it's so lengthy. Three weeks ago, I bought a phone and a plan from FIDO. It was the Galaxy S4 and a two-year plan with 2GB data monthly. The main reason I agreed to this was the sales rep told me I could always upgrade or downgrade that plan and there was "no problem" to do that. I felt assured I could rely on the fact that if I didn't use that much data or used more data, I could always upgrade or downgrade my plan with "no problem". While technically, that was absolutely true, there was indeed a hidden penalty and I'll explain that now.

At the time I agreed to this plan, there were two plans with published prices. One was for $78 monthly for 2GB and the other one was for $68 monthly for 1GB. Those were the published prices. But there were also some "hidden prices" - some "sales price" that were available only for a limited time. Those prices were $70 for 2GB and $60 for 1GB. Can you guess what is coming?

I sure would love to back out of this plan now. There are several reasons. I have learned a great deal about various phones and plans during those three weeks and if I could do it over, I would choose a diff phone and a diff plan (mostly for technical reasons - I don't like all the stuff Samsung has added to the pure Android phone and I'd like to get a phone from a diff company that offers the original phone (the pure Android phone) with no extra marketing or advertising stuff added. Nexus is a company that sells phones that are very close to the pure Android experience. Why is that a problem? Because I keep running into differences when the documentation explains things in terms of Android phones - but my phone operates differently because Samsung has changed it for their own purposes.) By "documentation", I'm talking about several different books that describe the phone but mostly magazines and user forums that specialize in the Android phones. They talk about pure Android phones - not Samsung phones that have been altered for reasons known only to Samsung.

Another big reason is that when a new version of the OS is released, Samsung phones take maybe 6 months to a year before they release the phone because that is how long it takes for them to "massage" the phone the way they want. Compnies like LG and Nexus apparantly (and I'm just repeating what I've seen in user forums) release the Android phone with the updated OS just as soon as it has been released. So, people with Nexus phones get the benefit of the new release almost immediately. While people who own Samsung phones have to wait and wait.

I will NEVER EVER buy another phone from Samsung. Now, admittedly, this is not any fault of FIDO. I can't blame them and I can't blame Samsung for this. But, it still remains that I will never again buy a Samsung phone and I wish that could find someone to take over my plan. I would pay them serious money just to take it off my hands.

As an aside, a second reason (and I have more reasons), is that several diff sources invited me to call Samsung's User support toll-free number. Has anyone here ever tried to get some help from that user support number? It was a terrible experience. They spent about 15 minutes questioning me trying to get all kinds of info (mostly it sounded like they wanted marketing info so they could sell me other Samsung products at a later date). Then that person who answered the support line transferred me to a technical person who would supposedly help me. Well, I'm very sorry to tell you this. But that techincal person had such a heavy accent, I could barely make out a word they were saying. Ultimately, I just had to thank them for their time and say "goodbye". What a terrible dismal experience! I will never again buy anything from Samsung.

But I fear that even though FIDO says there is no "cancellation fee" and no penalty for downgrading my plan, there are other ways to impose penatlies on anyone who tries to sublease or "downgrade" or "back out" of their agreement.

For example, when I signed this agreement three weeks ago, the published rate for my plan was $78 monthly. But when I went into the FIDO outlet, the sales person told me that "today is your lucky day"! Why? Because there was a special "sale" going on for a "limited time only" and if I signed up on that day, I could get the plan for $70 instead of $78. I should have known better. I feel so foolish that I accepted this line.

Boy oh boy! You know how your mother told you that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is? Well there are many reasons why this sounded too good to be true. Let me tell you just two of those reasons here.

Just as there is no penalty for transferring your plan to someone else, there is no fee or penalty for upgrading or downgrading your plan. However ... (get ready for one of the sneakiest sneak tricks you have ever seen).

Upgrading is no problem. Any company would always be happy to make a change that would result in them getting more money. I can't fault FIDO on that score. But, what happens when you want to downgrade?

They tell you the rate at which you originally signed up for the plan ($70 monthly) is no longer in effect. It was a limited time offer and the current rate is back to $78 monthly. Once again, you would hardly think to fault FIDO on that score. However, ... if you want to downgrade to the plan that has 1GB monthly, ...

FIDO tells you the price of that plan is $68 monthly. That is just what it was when I originally signed up. Once again, it sure doesn't sound like anyone is trying to pull a fast one here. Does it? Well, here is the point.

If I want to downgrade, I can't go back to the sale price which was $60 monthly for 1GB data. I have to pay $68 monthly which is the current price. So ... would you consider downgrading from paying $70 monthly for 2 GB to paying $68 monthly for 1GB? Of course not. That makes no sense at all.

So, I am stuck. I'm locked into this plan for 2GB monthly at $70 monthly. I cannot downgrade back to $60 monthly for 1GB data (which is what I want). That is a substantial savings of $10 per month. But I can't get it.

The lesson? Before agreeing to anything that some sales person says is only available on a "limited time basis", people really need to come to some forum - like this one - and ask what the pros and cons are of such an arrangement.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Well to be honest, why would they offer you a different sale or promotion price after you sign a contract with set terms? You agreed to a service and got offered their current sale or promotion price, likely for new clients or sign-ups only, it's an incentive to get people to switch companies and cellular companies are always doing promotions to sign new customers. If you decide to change your plan then I don't see why they should be obliged to offer a past promotional price since you are no longer a new sign-up but an existing client with an existing contract. I'm sorry but you are describing as sneaky isn't at all, there are limited time offers in every sector, business, industry; cars, home products, services, food, etc. 

As for the pure Android experience, it really isn't that great. I miss my HTC One with HTC's Sense interface and all the extra features and software it offers over the basic Android software. Those software packages are what differentiate Android devices, Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG etc all have their own tweaks, software, or changes that they make to their devices to be unique and 'better'. 

Also have you seen all the issues that Nexus devices have with their quick software updates? The upgrade to 5.0 brought massive problems for many users, it wasn't until the subsequent 5.0.x and 5.1 updates that many bugs were fixed and battery life is still worse then with KitKat for many. You can also probably find a massive number of people who still prefer KitKat(4.4.4) over Lollipop(5.x). Sometimes getting updates quickly is not good and it can be better to wait until it's fully tested or not to upgrade at all. Same goes with Apple phones, the first release of pretty much every release is quite buggy and older iPhones generally run slower and with poorer battery life than with the older versions.

FYI, the Nexus line is one of the few Android phones that come with no tweaks, the Nexus units are made by other manufacturers for Google, sometimes Asus makes, sometimes it's LG, or another company. Nexus is not a company.

You can also root your phone and install a custom ROM without the Samsung software.

Also note that if you are looking at any guides, you need to make sure you are looking at the one for your exact software version, even point versions can bring significant changes. Samsung phones are extremely popular and there should be plenty of guides for them.

As for the coming to forums or researching before buying or signing a contract; absolutely. It's always important to do research before buying or signing anything. You probably could have got a newer phone like S6 or a Nexus 6, although probably at a higher price, and probably a better service price from another cellular company like Virgin Mobility or Wind Mobile.

The other thing people should consider is buying their own phones and then not being in a contract, not only do you get to choose the exact phone you want but you can also change plans and companies at any time.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> Well to be honest, why would they offer you a different sale or promotion price after you sign a contract with set terms? You agreed to a service and got offered their current sale or promotion price, likely for new clients or sign-ups only, it's an incentive to get people to switch companies and cellular companies are always doing promotions to sign new customers. If you decide to change your plan then I don't see why they should be obliged to offer a past promotional price since you are no longer a new sign-up but an existing client with an existing contract. I'm sorry but you are describing as sneaky isn't at all, there are limited time offers in every sector, business, industry; cars, home products, services, food, etc.
> 
> As for the pure Android experience, it really isn't that great. I miss my HTC One with HTC's Sense interface and all the extra features and software it offers over the basic Android software. Those software packages are what differentiate Android devices, Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG etc all have their own tweaks, software, or changes that they make to their devices to be unique and 'better'.
> 
> ...


Well, your reply was certainly not what I was expecting and not what I was hoping for. But, if I try to examine it from a neutral perspective - which I must admit is extremely difficult because there is a lot of money at stake and it is *my* *money* after all. Notice that I put the words "my money" in bold text? That makes it extremely difficult for me to try and take a neutral perspective.

But, I must admit your reply makes a lot of sense and it's very difficult for me to make any kind of opposing statement because you make a lot of sense. I feel like having a good cry at this point. I can see that I lost a lot of money and there is just about nothing I can do. *There is just about nothing I can do.*

I suppose that I have to admit that I've learned a hard lesson and it was a hard lesson to learn. That doesn't make much sense, does it? Well, when emotions are involved, it's very difficult for me to make a lot of sense. Darn you! Why do you have to be so logical and sensible? In any event, I thank you for your reply and I must admit that you do make a lot of sense. At this point, I feel like going away to have a good cry. I still feel cheated. But those are my emotions talking and not my brain. Even so, I just don't know what to do now.

In the meantime, don't you think you could have a little bit of compassion for me? OK. I made a dumb mistake. But try to put yourself in my shoes?

I was a "smart phone virgin". I had no experience with buying smart phones. I had no idea what I was doing. And then, this sales rep who did this sort of thing 7 or 8 times every day just had her way with me. I know this sounds awfully dumb. But really, I had no chance. I now know that I should have come to some forum like this one and asked for advice before I signed anything.

But I was overcome with the excitement of buying my first smart phone and I just had no chance to defend myself against this sort of thing. I just didn't know any better and I had no way of knowing that I should have come here and asked for advice before signing any contract.

I have a feeling that I'm just going to have to "man up" and take my loss. But I sure would love to try and reach other people who are about to buy their first smart phone. I'm probably not the best person to explain things to them. You are probably about 100 times more qualified and in a better position to do that.

But I would truly love to see a way that first time buyers could come here and learn just a little bit - just enough to defend themselves against all the wolves out there. Just so they can know good deals from bad deals and just enough so they can steer clear of bad deals and not give these big corporations large profits they don't deserve by pulling fast tricks on unsuspecting first-time buyers. I know that legally or technically this corporation didn't cheat me and they didn't do anything wrong. They didn't lie to me. But if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would *never, ever, ever* have just gone along with what that sales rep suggested I do.

I know this corporation didn't do anything dishonest to me. But I sure do feel as if they did. I can't help that. I feel cheated and very much so!

I understand that your position is that they did nothing wrong. But I will try to compose myself and explain in a logical manner why it is they *did in fact *do something wrong. It's about their telling me the published price was $78 the day before I signed this contract and then - on the day I bought my phone - they told me there was a price of $70 that was not published. Then a few days later, they told me the current price was back to $78 which effectively locked me into the position that I could never downgrade to the lower plan. Do you at least agree with that? That it just makes no sense for me to downgrade to the lower plan of 1GB monthly download for $68 when I currently pay $70 for a plan with 2GB monthly download?


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> Also have you seen all the issues that Nexus devices have with their quick software updates? ...
> 
> FYI, the Nexus line is one of the few Android phones that come with no tweaks, ...
> 
> ...


I think you may have overlooked one fact.

Many people seem to complain about WIND's coverage.

FIDO is actually owned by *ROGERS,* which is a member of the huge oligopoly (sp?) in this country. (there are three members of that group - Bell, Rogers and Telus) and FIDO uses the ROGERS network. So FIDO has excellent coverage everywhere. Unfortunately for me, I never leave this country so their excellent coverage doesn't amount to a hill of beans for me.

Anyway, the more I settle down from my outrage, the more I appreciate what an excellent post you made. I have spoken with many people recently about Android phones and my experience. I honestly don't think I have met anyone who knows as much about these issues as you do.

I am very impressed with your knowledge and your even-handed stance.

I still feel I was treated unfairly and perhaps if it was your money involved instead of my money, you might feel differently. The issue of who it is that is being treated unfairly seems to have a very important fact as to the way people feel about issues like these.

But I think that I have explained my reasons just as much and as well as I ever can. So I think I'm done with this particular issue. However, I hope to get a different service provider and if I can, I hope to come to your for help in the future.

Thank you.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

Next time, buy a phone without a contract. Then you can cancel when you want.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

You can downgrade if you want too, however you can't get the special/sale/promotional price if you choose to do so, nothing sneaky about that, that was a special price not a regular price. Maybe you should look at it the opposite way; you are getting double the data for only $2 more than the regular price because you got a promotional deal. There's also nothing to say that they won't introduce a cheaper plan in the future, I just switched my plan to a new plan that didn't exist when I signed up and I get more features for less money.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

TonyB25 said:


> Next time, buy a phone without a contract. Then you can cancel when you want.


That sure does sound like sound advice now.

However, the reason that I bought the phone together with the contract was because it was recommended by a so-called "expert". I will try to find the original source of the quote so I can show you.

I certainly do not mean to cast any negative aspersions on your advice. I kind of think it's pretty obvious that you are correct. However ... in the light of hindsight, I just wonder how often someone can offer some advice that seems obviously correct at the time it is made, but in light of a different experience, it could very easily seem to be false.

Anyway, let me try to find that quote. ... Well, Darn! I can't find it. I was hoping to avoid giving out the name of the source because it is somewhat embarassing. But, here it is:

It's from a book titled, "Samsung Galaxy S4 for Dummies" and the author is Bill Hughes. I find that title embarassing because it makes it sound as if everyone who buys that book thinks of themselves as a "dummy".

I'm sorry but I just do not recall where in this book he made that recommendation. I suppose I could be mistaken. But I swear that I recall him making that recommendation and offering several reasons which sure did sound reasonable at the time I first read them. Oh well, Oh dear. I'm sorry. But I just can't remember where those reccos were made.

I hope to find out some time in the future.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Nobody can say that one contract is better than another nor say that a contract is better or worse than pay-as-you-go without specifying the criteria. And for somebody else to agree or disagree he/she has to consider how well those criteria apply.

For example, if you are going to make a lot of phone calls, maybe a lot of text messages, and use between 1 and 2 GB data most months your plan sounds like a great deal. But if you are going to use minimal data, few texts, and make as few phone calls as I do you could have found something that would cost you a lot less over two years. Probably.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

In post #4, Triple6 gives his opinion as to why the "Pure Android" experience may not be as good as touted to be by some people. My feeling is not so much that "Pure Android" is better than Samsung as it is this:

The more dealings I have with Samsung, the more I tend to conclude that compared to the other manufacturers, the people making the decisions about the "look and feel" of their phones' interface are "out to lunch". I want to give you one example here. For the purpose of the following example, let's assume we are all right-handed. Samsung wants to know whether we are right-handed or left-handed. Presumbably to improve the "look and feel" of our phone's interface. If you have the Galaxy S4 (or perhaps a similar Samsung phone), and your options are similar to mine (I have the S4), try this:

Settings -> My Device -> Accessibility -> Dexterity and interaction -> Assistant Menu -> Dominant Hand

To get into "Dominant Hand", you will have to turn on "Assistant Menu". Go ahead and enter "right" under "Dominant Hand". To see the effect of this choice, try this. Having turned on "Assistant Menu", you should see a small floating square on the extreme RHS of your screen. You can always get rid of it later by turning off "Assistant Menu". This floating square is what Samsung calls the "Assistant Menu" and the more experience I have with it, the more it seems to me like it is the result of "flawed thinking". Assuming you entered "right" under "Dominant Hand", this floating square will tend to appear on the extreme right hand side of the screen. It is not prevented from appearing anywhere else. It just "tends" to appear on that side. But you can always drag it to the other side or to a few places in between. 

It's my contention that if you use this feature, you always want the floating square to appear on the LHS of your screen and it doesn't make any diff whether you are right or left handed. Why? Because you want to get it out of the way of all the check boxes and radio buttons which always appear on the extreme RHS of the phone's screen. IMO, there is just no connection between your dominant hand and where you want this floating square to appear. Besides, the floating square just begins on the RHS. You can always drag it to the LHS and it will then stay on the LHS forever more. (until you turn off the Assistant Menu). If you turn off the Assistant Menu, the floating square will disappear and if you turn Assistant Menu back on, it will once again appear on the extreme RHS. Once again, it's just my opinion. But, the important consideration is to get this floating square out of the way of all the check boxes and radio buttons and there is no connection between which hand is dominant and upon which side you want this floating square to appear.

I believe Samsung's thinking is that you will use your right hand to tap on this floating square and so they will tend to keep it on the RHS of the screen to make it easier for you to use your right hand. But did anyone ever try this out? Or did they just imagine it should work that way and implemented it without ever testing it? If you think that is impossible and ridiculous, I want to tell you that I have seen several examples where features were implemented in exactly that way (without ever testing them) in multi-million dollar corporations. Besides which, how difficult is it to reach an inch or two to get to the floating square if it's on the wrong side of your screen? I guess Samsung's thinking is that if you are right handed, you want the floating square to appear on the extreme RHS of the screen to make it easier for you to use your dominant hand (your right hand) to do all your tapping. 

But, now let me explain why I consider this thinking to be flawed. I use my dominant hand to do all my tapping and I hold the phone in my other hand. Is it possible I am an exception? Or do you use your phone in the same way? In other words, do you do all your tapping with your dominant hand or do you hold your phone in your dominant hand? If I am not an exception and most people use their dominant hand to do all their tapping, could that mean that Samsung introduced this feature without ever testing it? That seems extremely unlikely. But ... I have seen that happen before.

If it's true that Samsung did not test this feature before introducing it, do you begin to see why I want to get away from Samsung as quickly as possible? This small problem is just a scratch on the surface of the problems I have begun to see with Samsung. This example represents a very small problem with very small consequences. But it does offer an insight into the minds of the Samsung decision makers and it leaves me wondering just what is going on at Samsung. Let me just give you a one sentence (approximately) summary here of the bigger problem with this feature.

IMO, this Assistant Menu feature is bizarre and it doesn't really aid productivity unless, perhaps, you only have one hand. Then I may have to retract everything I've said. But the real problem is one of efficiency. How many taps does it take you to do something using the normal menu system vs the Assistant Menu? I would guess the objective would be to make things faster and easier for people by enabling them to do things in less time; with less effort; with fewer overall taps and swipes. But, unfortunately, that is just not the case. It takes a lot more taps and swipes when using this Assistant Menu and that is why I say this feature is a failure. So, what is going on with Samsung?


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

If it's that bad, turn it off, pure Android doesn't even have a similar feature and it's meant for those having trouble pressing the hardware buttons, or have broken hardware buttons. Most of the accessibility options in Samsung phones are unique to them and go beyond what is offered by Android. Some people hold and tap on the screen with the same hand so maybe that works better for them, and you can move that Icon around on the screen to where it's most suited to your needs and place it where you want. And its not meant for productivity, Accessibility options are for those you have trouble pressing hardware buttons because of physical ailements or as you say may only have one hand.

It seems you are trying to find any reason to be upset about this phone, Samsung, and Fido.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Perhaps you missed the point of my post?

It wasn't that I didn't like this feature and could satisfy myself by turning it off.

It was an astonishment that any feature produced by a billion dollar corporation could be implemented so poorly.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

What you consider "poorly" implemented others may like and find useful.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> What you consider "poorly" implemented others may like and find useful.


Yes. I must admit you may well be correct.

After all, I can tell that you have a great deal more experience and knowledge than I do and ..

I hope to take advantage of all that experience and seek out your help in the future.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

I just want to keep you all apprised of my current status with my phone and my attempt to sublease this phone and plan.

Just in case any of you are thinking of doing something similar. At the end of this post I will include a copy of the ad I ran in Craigslist asking if anyone would like to "sublease" my phone and plan. I guess this ad appealed to a number of people because I started getting offers within 24 hours.

But, I'm embarassed to say (especially after throwing such a foolish temper tantrum), that I never considered what I would do once I subleased the phone. What kind of phone would I get to replace it? And what kind of plan?

The phone didn't seem to be much of an issue. I'd be willing to get an iPhone 6. The only problem with that is that I have invested 4 weeks into learning about the Android phone and I must say, I like it a whole lot. Some people who I respect have advised me to get a Nexus 4 or 5 or a Motorola Moto X or Moto G or any Motorola phone since they are owned by Google and make very decent Android phones at a good price (maybe $350).

The plan may be a little more difficult. FIDO offers some very interesting "Pre-Paid" Plans. You can see them here: http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/PrepaidPlans/Plans?lang=en

I am currently paying $70 to FIDO on a 24 month agreement but if I chose their Pre-Paid plan for $70, I'd get pretty much the same services: Unlimited air time, 2GB per month, but I'd have to buy my own phone which would suit me just fine. As a matter of fact, I could get their $60 monthly plan and I would get 1GB monthly but again I'd have to buy my own phone elsewhere. This would be just perfect for me. It's exactly what I had wanted in the first place and what I kicked up such a fuss about. At this point, the only downside to this plan is that it's from FIDO. If I could get this same plan from any other provider (Prepaid $60 monthly, unlimited voice calls and text messages and 1GB data), I would snap it up immediately and I'd be happy as a clam. At least I think I would be happy as a clam. The older I get, the harder it is for me to be happy.

But, it makes me ask the following question. Why didn't FIDO just offer me this option at the beginning of our quarrel? It has everything I want.

Well anyway, I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that I just keep learning more and more about smartphones and their plans every day.

OK. Here is the ad I ran in Craigs List.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Four weeks ago I bought a Samsung Galaxy S4 with a two-year agreement from FIDO. The current cost of this plan is $78 monthly (plus tax). But you can sublease mine for $63 monthly. That's a savings of $345 over the 23 remaining months. I will pay you the cash difference to make this happen.

This phone is black and it's in perfect condition - not a scratch. Plus, when I bought this phone, I paid $40 for the best case that FIDO sold and you can have that case at no cost.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this phone. I want to sublease it for personal reasons. It has a 5" display which is just about the biggest display sold today.

This plan is explained here: www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/MonthlyPlans - and it includes the following:

Unlimited Canada-Wide minutes - Unlimited text, picture and video messages from Canada to Canadian wireless numbers - 2GB Data Download monthly - Unlimited Circle Calling - Call Display

If you find that 2GB is either too much or too little data to suit you, you can always change that later. There is no penalty to upgrade or downgrade this plan in the future.

Are you looking to buy a Smart Phone and save considerable money? If so, this is a great deal.


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## renegade600 (Jun 22, 2006)

be careful subleasing using craigslist. I know one person who got scammed out of their phone and stuck with the payments when the subleaser defaulted. One thing you must consider. You basically have a new plan you are wanting to sublease. Most people would not even consider subleasing when that new. They would be better off just going to the phone company and get their own contract. My point is, be wary of anyone who wants to sublease your phone at this time. Not sure about the laws of your county pertaining to forms filled out, and promises made, but you could still be held responsible if "things happen"

a final note -IMO, you have a good phone now. In a lot of ways superior to nexus. no matter what you do, there is always going to be something better out there - better plan, better device that you did not know about. I have a rule, whenever I purchase some expensive like smartphone, computer or whatever, I would not look at anything else for several months because there is always something better out there and I would get mad if I found it too soon after making the purchase.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

renegade600 said:


> be careful subleasing using craigslist. I know one person who got scammed out of their phone and stuck with the payments when the subleaser defaulted. One thing you must consider. You basically have a new plan you are wanting to sublease. Most people would not even consider subleasing when that new. They would be better off just going to the phone company and get their own contract. My point is, be wary of anyone who wants to sublease your phone at this time. Not sure about the laws of your county pertaining to forms filled out, and promises made, but you could still be held responsible if "things happen"
> 
> a final note -IMO, you have a good phone now. In a lot of ways superior to nexus. no matter what you do, there is always going to be something better out there - better plan, better device that you did not know about. I have a rule, whenever I purchase some expensive like smartphone, computer or whatever, I would not look at anything else for several months because there is always something better out there and I would get mad if I saw it.


Thank you so much Regegade. I very much enjoyed and appreciated your post. Very informative. You know, the more I think about this situation, the more I tend to agree with you and the more I want to just keep my phone and stick it out.

As far as someone getting scammed, I'm not sure how that is even possible. I mean the procedure that FIDO explained to me was that both parties (the seller and buyer) would call FIDO Customer Service and give them two pieces of photo ID over the phone and the buyer would have to pass a credit check. Once FIDO was satisfied, the seller was indeed the correct current owner and the buyer was "credit worthy", the service would be transferred and from then on, it belongs to the buyer. The seller is out of the picture and any problems the buyer causes would be between them and FIDO. The seller would be completely free and clear of any future problems.

The only thing about this procedure that seems absurd to me is that FIDO insists this be done over the phone - not in person. What is the point of giving two pieces of photo ID over the phone? That just mystifies me. However, once FIDO says, "The phone is now transferred". (or the equivalent), I would guess the seller is out of the picture. I don't understand how the seller could ever have a problem once the ownership of the phone and service has been transrerred. But there are so many things I don't understand about FIDO and smart phones and this kind of service, that I could very easily be mistaken.

Thanks again.

P.S. As far as people being better off just going to the phone company and buying a new phone, I am offering a lot of cash to the buyer to make it worth their while to do this sublease.

It's true that there is this one "sticky" detail which is that I say the plan is "currently" selling for $78 monthly. But I only paid $70 for it due to this one-time special price FIDO gave me (which I still consider to be something untowards). But I am offering the seller a further discount of $7 monthly on top of that - which is $161.

So, if the buyer cannot get that special price of $70, they do in fact save $15 per month which equates to $345 over the course of the 23 months. IMO, this is a very good deal. The buyer gets a lower price for the service. They would have to pay $78 monthly, but I give them a combination of cash plus my "special price" which is equivalent to a price that is $15 less than the price they would have to pay or $345.

Even if they could get this service for $70 monthly, they would still save $7 monthly or $161. So, it's still a fair savings. Plus, I'm not trying to cheat them in any way and I truly believe I am giving them good value in this deal and I'm not trying to trick or cheat them in any way. I also will give them a $40 case I bought plus a $60 Micro SD card that has a capacity of 64GB. I don't advertise that. But I'm holding it in reserve to have something I can use to entice the buyer if necessary. If I get an iphone, I think that card will be of no value to me and I will give it to the buyer anyway. So, I really and truly think this is a great deal. I don't want to cheat or trick anyone. I want them to be happy with the deal I am giving them.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

If you went with an iPhone you;d have the advantage that there are no variations, Apple is the only one who makes iPhones and they control everything.

I wouldn't recommend an Nexus 4, good phone when new but it's not new anymore and inferior to the Nexus 5. HTC One series are decent, with the One M8 and M9 being great phones but are not a pure Android interface, the LG G3 an G4 are apparently very good as well. You can also go with lesser known phones such as the OnePlus One, or Two if you want to wait for it's release, or an Asus Xenfone 2. They may not be well known phones but very powerful and inexpensive quality options. But you should read a ton of reviews, check out their individual forums, make sure they are the international/global version or at least supported by the carrier you go with if buying something like the OnePlus One which also has a Chinese version. 

The advantage of cell service in Canada is that all the major companies with the exception of Wind use the same bands so any international or global LTE phone pretty much works with LTE with all the carriers.

Fido is not the only discount carrier, Virgin mobile is another option And if the areas you live, work, and travel too are covered by Wind then they offer really good prices as well. For example with Virgin you can get plans from $28 if you only use 100MB of data or $38 for 500MB if you buy your own phone, $8 more if you don't.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6, Thank you for that very informative post. I had completely forgotten about Virgin and I'll have to look into that before making any further decision on my next plan. As for the Nexus 4 vs 5, this adventure (although it's not nearly over) has taught me to buy the latest phone - even if it may be a bit buggy because if I'm going to be locked into a two-year contract, I don't want to start off with a phone that is somewhat out of date to begin with. When I reach the end of the two years, I will feel as if my phone is akin to a dinosaur.

Of course, there are exceptions. One is if I can get a Prepaid plan and from the looks of things I can't imagine why anyone would not want to go that way unless they are living on an extremely tight budget and can't afford to pay $70 to $80 in advance. But I am very tempted to go with a pre-paid plan from now on because I'm also tempted to buy my own phone separately from the plan. Even if it costs a hundred dollars more, there is a great deal of flexibility if I can cancel my plan at any time and switch to another company. Also, if I can dump my phone at any time in favor of another phone, that is likewise a tremendous flexibility that I find extremely attractive. If I was on a pre-paid plan now, I could dump the phone at any time (although that is very expensive and so I'd need a powerful reason to do that) or I could dump the plan at any time and keep the phone.

I don't think I could ever have seen far enough into the future to realize the value of that flexibility. I have pretty much decided now to just bite the bullet and stick it out for the remaining 23 months. I will learn an awful lot and I fear making many small changes from now till the end of my contract because each small change will cost me a hundred dollars or more - even much more. Better to wait for a long time and keep a record of what I have learned and then make one big change at the end instead of many small changes along the way.

But, the most valuable thing I have learned - by far - is the value of user forums like this one. I also particiapte in several others and I have learned so much from other people in the same boat as I am. There is just nothing that comes close to that value. So, I want to thank all the member here and I want to thank you. This journey would have been incredibly expensive and incredibly insufferable were it not for the wisdom and help I have received from all of you.

Thank you ever so much. And ... please use that Black Screen Technique. It truly is a marvel and if you use it, I will feel as if I have repaid you in some small way for all your help. In the future, I promise to think twice before I throw any more temper tantrums and I promise not to write such long posts. In my experience, when people write such long posts, most other members just ignore them. It's too difficult to read.

Thank you all again.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

If you want to buy an iPhone 6, it will cost about $600.

The only purpose of a contract is to get a phone at a discount.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

TonyB25 said:


> If you want to buy an iPhone 6, it will cost about $600.
> 
> The only purpose of a contract is to get a phone at a discount.


But a contract also locks you into one company for (usually) two years. It depends what you mean by "purpose". But IMO, the one big problem with a contract is that you are locked in for two years and it can be a real serious problem to get out of it.

There are still many pros and cons on both sides of this issue. But it is easily worth $200 or $300 to me to buy my phone separately and then pay for my services on a "Pay as I go" plan. Did you look at the FIDO prciing and compare the Prepaid plans with the postpaid? The pricing of both are just about equal. The one big diff is that you get a phone for "free" (so to speak). So, it's a close decision.

I just really don't like the idea of being "locked into" any one company for two years. I'd be very happy to spend an extra $200 or $300 to avoid that. $300 over two years is $12.50 per month. But I can see how some people wouldn't mind and would be happy to get the phone. Perhaps it would appeal to people with very stable lifestyles. With stable jobs. Who will be confident they will be doing the same thing in two years they are doing today. I can see how it would appeal to those people.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

You can have monthly plan and not be on a contract. Both Fido and Virgin offer BYOP, bring your own phone, plans as do the other carriers.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> You can have monthly plan and not be on a contract. Both Fido and Virgin offer BYOP, bring your own phone, plans as do the other carriers.


Thank you. Yes. I just saw that and I cannot understand why I ever overlooked such a thing.

I guess that many people would not want that. But, at this point, it sure look. perfect for me. If only I understood that before I signed on the bottom line for this contract, I would have snapped that right up.

So, where were you when I needed you?

(just kidding. But I sur do wish I had known that before I had this experience.

Oh my. How many times have you heard someone cry, "I only wish that I would have known that before ...... ?

If I only knew that before I did this ... Oh my. I just thank my stars this was all about a smartphone and not about a house or a car.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

The only benefit of a contract is getting a phone at a discount. If you're willing to pay full price for a phone, there's no reason to sign a contract.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

NM. Sorry.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> You can have monthly plan and not be on a contract. Both Fido and Virgin offer BYOP, bring your own phone, plans as do the other carriers.


Here are the FIDO plans for both PrePaid and PostPaid;

PrePaid: http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/PrepaidPlans/Plans?lang=en

PostPaid: http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/MonthlyPlans?cm_mmc=Redirects-_-External-_-Marketing-_-plans

If you look at the PostPaid plans, they still require you to sign a 24 month agreement. It's just that the price is lower. You still are comitted to them for 24 months.

Did I read that correctly?


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Oh no. I'm sorry but I could not edit my post #26 above. I posted #27 before I realized that. I was going to delete most of the text in #26 and just say "Sorry. NM".

I did this to try to make the post shorter. I thought it was too long and so I was going to edit out the first part. Please excuse me.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

NM. Sorry. I'm having problems trying to edit posts.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Says plans are available on a monthly basis in the details and nothing on the plan suggests it needs to be a 2 year contract, although you can do a 2 year contract too.

http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/activation_land?PostpaidPlan=true


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

OK. On that page for which you provided the link.

It says: (under "full details").

1. Smart plans available monthly or with a 2-year Tab24 agreement; Max plans available only with a 2-year Tab24 agreement. 

I may be mistaken. But I can't see where they define the diff between a "Smart plan" or a "Max plan".

Do you know the diff?

I can't imagine the would give these contract unless the customer agreed to a minimum term. Like two years. That is what I may well be mistaken about. 

Would you know? Or care to guess? I have no idea.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

That's an option. A "bring your own phone" option means you buy a phone for cash and sign up for a plan.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Max plans are different, see here: http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/MonthlyPlans Pulse plans also require a 2 year contract. Smart Plans and BYOP plans are monthly.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> Max plans are different, see here: http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/MonthlyPlans Pulse plans also require a 2 year contract. Smart Plans and BYOP plans are monthly.


Sorry to take so long responding. I've been away.

I've seen that page in your link many times. I find it very confusing. Both groups of numbers are headed by "FIDO PULSE PLANS". Then, under the first group the next heading is "Data, Text, and TalkSmart plans".

The second group is also headed by "FIDO PULSE PLANS" but under that group the next heading is "Data, Text, and TalkMax plans"

Well, I mean, I've got plans coming out of my ears. Sometimes I think they deliberately made these plans so confusing that you are forced to call in and speak to a CS rep. So much of their system is geared that way. So many times, I've called my local office to try and do something (like upgrade or downgrade or cancel their ridiculous "lost damaged etc." insurance (ridiculous because they never pay off)" and I'm told, "Oh. I'm sorry but we can't do that here in person. You have to call in and do that over the phone.

What kind of ridiculous system is this? I've never heard of any company that prefers people to call in and conduct transactions over the phone. Why would they do this?

I never, ever call them if I can avoid it because their CSR is all handled by a call center in the Philipines and almost none of those people speak English in any form that I can understand. They have very strong accents and I have to keep asking them to repeat most anything they say and usually, I have to just hang up (politely of course) and call back hoping to get another operator that speaks better English.

It is a real nightmare and just one of the reasons why when my current contract is up, I will never, ever deal with FIDO again.

P.S. But my phone has been working out real well. I'm very happy with it. It's a wonderful phone. Every day I discover some new and wonderful thing it can do. The only embarrassing thing about this smart phone is that it is actually smarter than me. (that's my joke for the day).

I only wish there was some kind of programmable macro language. For example, I wish I could program a single key (or sequence of keys) to perform some complicated action that I now have to perform by pressing a whole lot of keys and going through a whole lot of windows.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Wallenberg said:


> Sorry to take so long responding. I've been away.
> 
> I've seen that page in your link many times. I find it very confusing. Both groups of numbers are headed by "FIDO PULSE PLANS". Then, under the first group the next heading is "Data, Text, and TalkSmart plans".
> 
> ...


That's pretty standard and how most companies work.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

Triple6 said:


> That's pretty standard and how most companies work.


Really? I am very surprised to learn that. But thank you for telling me. That is good to know.

BTW, I don't know if I told you. But I had the opportunity to sublease my phone. Someone contacted me and wanted to do it. But I changed my mind for several reasons and declined. I apologized to him for causing him any inconvenience - for which I felt very embarrassed.

I did have some reasons that I thought were good reasons for changing my mind. Mostly it was because of some things that people told me in this forum. I had no idea that other companies operated in the same way as FIDO and after learning that, the reasons I had for wanting to switch to another company seemed to evaporate.

By the way, the link that you provided to me in your post #33 above is the same link that I had previously provided you in my post #27.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Possibly the same link, but it shows the needed information.


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## Wallenberg (Jan 23, 2006)

For those people who have followed my experience with my plan, I want to tell you all that today, I downgraded my plan and ...

Instead of paying $70 per month for unlimited minutes and 2GB data, I now pay $53 per month for 500 minutes and 500MB.

I'm very happy with this. Last month, I used 100MB which is only 5 percent of my allowed limit. So, $70 per month may have been a good deal for someone who uses that much data (2GB) but it was a huge waste of money for me.

I feel much better now. FIDO did not charge me any penalty to downgrade and I no longer feel a huge negative feeling towards them.

http://www.fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/MonthlyPlans


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Glad to hear :up:


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