# LINUX Red Hat CONVERT to Windows



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Okay guys... you've ALWAYS managed to come up with the best solutions and I'm back with a DOOOOZIE of a problem.

[NOTE IN ADVANCE: I have ZERO experience w/ LINUX, but am pretty well versed in Windows]

We had a LINUX/Red Hat server at work that was used for storage for pretty much everything. This machine was set up before I came in as IT manager.
This machine had two 1TB drives in it. One as main drive w/ OS and data, and the 2nd drive was supposedly set up for mirror/backup of the data on the 1st drive.
The main drive bit the dust this week. Completely crapped. Drive heads spent a good night grinding the platters to dust. And sadly no, they had no backup system in place. I've been begging for one for over a year.

My plan now is to convert this machine to a WINDOWS server. But WINDOWS will not read whatever data is on this 2nd drive as it was set up under LINUX. 
I have temporarily moved this 2nd drive to a WINDOWS machine. The BIOS recognizes the drive, and WINDOWS DISK MANAGEMENT sees the drive, and sees that it has 3 partitions on it. (#1 is HEALTHY/Active @ 102MB, #2 is HEALTHY/Unknown Partition @ 2GB, & #3 is HEALTHY/Unknown Partition @ 929GB.)
With this knowledge, I'm HOPING that this is simply a mirror of the DATA from the drive that crashed.

So here's my question: I do not have access to Linux OS anywhere, nor would I know what to do with it if I did. IS THERE any software package under WINDOWS that will read the data from this drive and convert it to a format that WINDOWS could indeed read?

As always guys, THANK YOU in advance for ANYTHING you can help with!

-Andrew


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Apart from data you are wasting your time to convert Linux programs for Windows use because none of them will work. Same as Windows programs cannot be used in Linux because the compilers are totally different.

You could boot up this spare drive. There is a 50:50 chance that it will not boot because the duplication of files does not include the boot sector code. However if you have any Linux Live CD, preferably with Grub1 which would be the one used by Red Hat, you could restore its boot loader and run it as the original master disk.

A Linux CD is a better tools to see the content of you Linux hard disk. I would recommend download a Fedora and use it as a Live CD.

You could install free drivers in a MS Windows to read/write Linux partitions. However there is a good chance your second disk can be made bootable if it comes off from a RAID 1. In any case you can put Grun1 into it and fire it up. The procedure is quite simple.


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

DATA is all I'm looking to recover. There are no LINUX programs on this. The drive that crashed ran the Linux OS and stored the data. We're HOPING that the 2nd drive (with the 3 partitions) is merely a backup of data from the 1st drive that crashed. (Audio files, documents, graphics, etc.)

This 2nd drive didn't have any sort of OS on it, so it's not bootable. I do not have access to a Linux CD at all. 

Can you point me in the direction of a free driver that would allow my WINDOWS install to read the data (if there is any) on these Linux partitions?


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Try extifs

After installation it is inside your Control Panel. You then select each partition and the drive letter for it. Ext2ifs gives you the full read and write access.

If the original disk boots and the second disk is its mirror image then it would have all the OS files.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Here is one:

http://www.fs-driver.org/

You didn't indicate if the data drive was formatted using ext2, ext3, or ext4 so you might need to find a different tool. Search on "ext3 for Windows" or "ext4 for Windows" if the above tool doesn't work.

Good luck!

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

saikee said:


> Try extifs
> 
> After installation it is inside your Control Panel. You then select each partition and the drive letter for it. Ext2ifs gives you the full read and write access.


I guess you were posting while I was typing. 

Peace...


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

tomdkat,

I know if I act fast enough I could beat you to it!  I even released the post before completion and then finished the rest with editing! I know you have given a lot of advice in this direction.:up::up::up:


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

The FS Driver is installed, and allowed me to give the partitions each a drive letter. Attempting to access via Windows and each time I click one, Windows says that partition isn't formatted. I have no clue if it's EXT2, EXT3 or EXT4 as I wasn't the person who set up this machine.
Would I still be getting the message about "Do I want to format this partition" if we have the wrong format driver? ....or was this just just partitioned but never used?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

saikee said:


> tomdkat,
> 
> I know if I act fast enough I could beat you to it!  I even released the post before completion and then finished the rest with editing! I know you have given a lot of advice in this direction.:up::up::up:


lol :up:



triandrew2001 said:


> The FS Driver is installed, and allowed me to give the partitions each a drive letter. Attempting to access via Windows and each time I click one, Windows says that partition isn't formatted. I have no clue if it's EXT2, EXT3 or EXT4 as I wasn't the person who set up this machine.
> Would I still be getting the message about "Do I want to format this partition" if we have the wrong format driver? ....or was this just just partitioned but never used?


I have never used that tool before, so I'll let saikee take it from here. One thing you could do is boot a Linux LiveCD on the system and determine the exact filesystem type that way.

How old is the RedHat system? If it's old, chances are it has ext2 and the fact the extifs tool can't recognize the data isn't good. Or, that could mean the drive, itself, is bad. Or that could mean the drive wasn't working the way you thought before the crash.

Good luck! You're in great hands with saikee. 

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

As mentioned above, I have no access to a Linux LiveCD.... unless it's something I can download somewhere?

This Linux machine was set up somewhere between 3-5 years ago by a previous IT guy for our company. Does that help at all?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

triandrew2001 said:


> As mentioned above, I have no access to a Linux LiveCD.... unless it's something I can download somewhere?


Yep, sure can. You can find LiveCDs for many different Linux distribution maintainers easily. Download the ISO and burn it to a CD and boot from it. Voila, you're running Linux. 

saikee mentioned Fedora. You can find a Fedora 15 ISO you can download here. "ISO" refers to a CD image in the form of a file. You can load the ISO into many CD burning applications for Windows and burn a bootable CD from it.



> This Linux machine was set up somewhere between 3-5 years ago by a previous IT guy for our company. Does that help at all?


That would tell me it's probably using either an ext2 or ext3 filesystem.

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

I'm downloading the Fedora ISO now. Should have it all in about 20 min or so. Will update my progress at that time. Thanks!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Just keep in mind, when you've booted from the LiveCD, the system will run a little slower than you would expect because it will be POUNDING on the CD. You won't be running the OS booted from a hard drive so you can't expect it to perform like an OS booted from a hard drive. 

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

On an previous note, I have ZERO experience with Linux. Once booted via the CD, how easy will it be to navigate and see this drive? Will there be some form of prompt or GUI with which to get around to this drive? This will be my last ditch effort to see if this drive even has (or ever had) backed up data.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

I can't answer that but there *might* be an icon or two on the desktop for the data drive. If there is, you could possibly right-click on it and get properties or info to determine the filesystem. Otherwise, you could open a command window and enter a "fdisk" command to display the partition information on the drive.

We can deal with that once you've got the LiveCD booted. 

Peace...


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

The ext2ifs will read ext2 and ext3 and possibly ext4 which is unlikely used by Red Hat as it sticks with the old tradition. What could happen is Red Hat, being a server distro, is dead keen to promote LVM. If the partition is a LVM then the only way is to boot up a Fedora, select a terminal and ask fdisk to display its content by 

```
su
fdisk -l
```
The above command will display the details of every partition of every hard disk.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Can you tell him how to open a command prompt so he can enter that command? I'm currently on a Mac and don't have access to a Fedora system.

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

About 9 min left on download. Will burn it as soon as I get it.

Let me just THANK YOU again for your assistance this afternoon. I've been *****ing at the company for over a year to have a backup system in place, but they've yet to give me the funds for it. (That'll be changing Monday morning.  )

We have a backup from January of about 1/3rd of the data, which is better than nothing I suppose. But if our data HAS been backed up on this drive, and I can recover it, I'll be asking for a raise tomorrow. WINDOWS I know, Linux is completely greek to me.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Well, if you have no funds for a backup system, you could always use an unused PC as a Linux-based backup server. Linux would be free and you could configure Samba, so the Windows boxes could connect to it as if it were a Windows file server. Then, you could backup the systems onto the Linux box. Linux supports a wide variety of filesystems so you could save the backup data in a FAT32 or NTFS partition.

You could even run the system "headless" (meaning no monitor, keyboard, or mouse connected to it) and stash it in some corner somewhere. You would login via telnet or ssh or even with a full GUI from your Windows system and monitor the system as necessary.

That might be a low-cost backup solution and will give you an opportunity to learn a little about Linux.  Just something to think about. 

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

That is essentially how this machine was set up. I'd only discovered it was LINUX about a week after I started as IT manager and plugged a monitor into it. It was the only Linux machine in the building and we accessed it as if it were a Windows file server. We were "told" that this 2nd drive was set up as a backup of at least the data from the 1st. So when the main OS and data drive crashed Thursday, I've been trying to find someone locally who could assist in seeing what was really on the 2nd drive. Unfortunately no computer techs here in our area will touch Linux. So I opted to start here as this forum has helped me out of several jams in the past.
BURNING ISO now.
I assume I'm just going to boot from this CD? I'll await your input next...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

BOOTED.

Top of screen:

ACTIVITIES Sun 15:28 (3 other icons) LIVE SYSTEM USER

Where do I go next?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Gotcha. I guess the person who setup the box didn't give much thought to accessing the data if the server, itself, crashed. 

Once the LiveCD is burned to a CD, you'll have to boot the system to which the data drive is connected from the CD. You might have to configure your BIOS to allow booting from the CD or DVD drive in the system. 

Once the system starts booting from the CD, let it run until you see the desktop appear, with some icons, etc. You might also have Internet access while booted from the LiveCD, so you might be able to login here and access this thread.

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

triandrew2001 said:


> BOOTED.
> 
> Top of screen:
> 
> ...


That was fast. Ok, do you see a bar at the top of the screen that says "Applications" and "Places" and "System"?

Peace...


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I have booted up Fedora 11 so I might be able to give you a few pointers.

Assuming your desktop is similar to mine the right click the top right corner you can select Konsole is the terminal mode.

The command 

```
su
```
 will let you become the Admin. For an installed Linux you have to give the root password (same as Admin password) but on a Live CD the password is normally omitted.

Here are the partition types supported by Linux

```
0  Empty           1e  Hidden W95 FAT1 80  Old Minix       bf  Solaris
 1  FAT12           24  NEC DOS         81  Minix / old Lin c1  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 2  XENIX root      39  Plan 9          [COLOR="red"]82  Linux swap / So[/COLOR] c4  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 3  XENIX usr       3c  PartitionMagic  [COLOR="red"]83  Linux[/COLOR]           c6  DRDOS/sec (FAT-
 4  FAT16 <32M      40  Venix 80286     84  OS/2 hidden C:  c7  Syrinx
 5  Extended        41  PPC PReP Boot   85  Linux extended  da  Non-FS data
 6  FAT16           42  SFS             86  NTFS volume set db  CP/M / CTOS / .
 [COLOR="Red"]7  HPFS/NTFS[/COLOR]       4d  QNX4.x          87  NTFS volume set de  Dell Utility
 8  AIX             4e  QNX4.x 2nd part 88  Linux plaintext df  BootIt
 9  AIX bootable    4f  QNX4.x 3rd part [COLOR="red"]8e  Linux LVM[/COLOR]       e1  DOS access
 a  OS/2 Boot Manag 50  OnTrack DM      93  Amoeba          e3  DOS R/O
 b  W95 FAT32       51  OnTrack DM6 Aux 94  Amoeba BBT      e4  SpeedStor
 c  W95 FAT32 (LBA) 52  CP/M            9f  BSD/OS          eb  BeOS fs
 e  W95 FAT16 (LBA) 53  OnTrack DM6 Aux a0  IBM Thinkpad hi ee  GPT
 f  W95 Ext'd (LBA) 54  OnTrackDM6      a5  FreeBSD         ef  EFI (FAT-12/16/
10  OPUS            55  EZ-Drive        a6  OpenBSD         f0  Linux/PA-RISC b
11  Hidden FAT12    56  Golden Bow      a7  NeXTSTEP        f1  SpeedStor
12  Compaq diagnost 5c  Priam Edisk     a8  Darwin UFS      f4  SpeedStor
14  Hidden FAT16 <3 61  SpeedStor       a9  NetBSD          f2  DOS secondary
16  Hidden FAT16    63  GNU HURD or Sys ab  Darwin boot     fb  VMware VMFS
17  Hidden HPFS/NTF 64  Novell Netware  b7  BSDI fs         fc  VMware VMKCORE
18  AST SmartSleep  65  Novell Netware  b8  BSDI swap       fd  Linux raid auto
1b  Hidden W95 FAT3 70  DiskSecure Mult bb  Boot Wizard hid fe  LANstep
1c  Hidden W95 FAT3 75  PC/IX           be  Solaris boot    ff  BBT
```
Every partition has a Type number. NTFS is Type 7. Linux own partition is always Type 83. A LVM is Type 8e.


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

I see only ACTIVITIES.... the the date/time, and 3 icons, one for audio, one that looks to be for screen settings and one saying we're wired via ethernet, and lastly Live System User.

Clicking ACTIVITIES brings up two chcoices, WINDOWS - Applications


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

The terminal is usually inside Application, then Accessories and Konsole or Terminal.

Copy and paste the output of 

```
fdisk -l
```
after you become the super user.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

saikee said:


> Assuming your desktop is similar to mine the right click the top right corner you can select Konsole is the terminal mode.


He's got the GNOME 3 desktop, I believe.



triandrew2001 said:


> I see only ACTIVITIES.... the the date/time, and 3 icons, one for audio, one that looks to be for screen settings and one saying we're wired via ethernet, and lastly Live System User.
> 
> Clicking ACTIVITIES brings up two chcoices, WINDOWS - Applications


Ok, cool. Under "Applications", what do you see? "Accessories" by chance? We're looking for an icon with the title "Terminal" or "Terminal window". If you find it, click it. A black window should appear with a prompt and a blinking cursor.

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

I've got TERMINAL open.

Did the:

su
fdisk -l


got a ton of info, but have no clue what I'm looking at


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Use the mouse to highlight the text, right click to highlight the text and then click copy.

When posting here enter [ code ] then paste the information and followed by [ /code ]

Then everybody can see what you have got. You have to type "[ code ]" and "[ /code ]". Just omit the " when typing and omit space which I added only to assist reading.

Here is an example of mine. Only the red bit is my input.

```
[[email protected] saikee]# [COLOR="Red"]fdisk -l[/COLOR]

Disk /dev/sda: 2000.3 GB, 2000397852160 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 243201 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x73696d20                     

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1        7001    56235501    c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda2            7002       21003   112471065   1c  Hidden W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda3          182402      243201   488376000   83  Linux                 
/dev/sda4           21004      182401  1296429435    5  Extended              
/dev/sda5           21004       21204     1614501   82  Linux swap / Solaris  
/dev/sda6           21205       28205    56235501    7  HPFS/NTFS             
/dev/sda7           28206       35206    56235501    7  HPFS/NTFS             
/dev/sda8           35207       42207    56235501    7  HPFS/NTFS             
/dev/sda9           42208       49208    56235501    7  HPFS/NTFS             
/dev/sda10          49209       56209    56235501    7  HPFS/NTFS             
/dev/sda11          56210       59710    28121751   83  Linux                 
/dev/sda12          59711       63211    28121751   83  Linux                 
/dev/sda13          63212       66712    28121751   83  Linux                 
/dev/sda14          66713       70213    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda15          70214       73714    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda16          73715       77215    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda17          77216       80716    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda18          80717       84217    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda19          84218       87718    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda20          87719       91219    28121751   83  Linux
/dev/sda21          91220       93220    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda22          93221       95221    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda23          95222       97222    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda24          97223       99223    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda25          99224      101224    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda26         101225      103225    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda27         103226      105226    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda28         105227      107227    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda29         107228      109228    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda30         109229      111229    16073001   83  Linux
/dev/sda31         111230      112230     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda32         112231      113231     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda33         113232      114232     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda34         114233      115233     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda35         115234      116234     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda36         116235      117235     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda37         117236      118236     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda38         118237      119237     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda39         119238      120238     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda40         120239      121239     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda41         121240      122240     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda42         122241      123241     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda43         123242      124242     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda44         124243      125243     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda45         125244      126244     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda46         126245      127245     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda47         127246      128246     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda48         128247      129247     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda49         129248      130248     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda50         130249      131249     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda51         131250      132250     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda52         132251      133251     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda53         133252      134252     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda54         134253      135253     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda55         135254      136254     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda56         136255      137255     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda57         137256      138256     8040501   83  Linux
/dev/sda58         138257      182401   354594681   83  Linux
```
If you hook a network cable Fedora should get you into the Internet and you can use just one machine.


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

This is running on a different machine.... cannot copy & paste to here, unless I can save it to a USB flash drive somehow.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

You will see entries that shows things like "/dev/sda1? or "/dev/hda1". Those will be the particular partitions fdisk can actually see.

Since your data drive isn't the primary drive, I'm thinking it will have a device with 'b' in it, like "/dev/sdb1" or "/dev/hdb1".

In any event, I would look for any entry that has "ext2" or "ext3" in it. Do you see any that have "ext4" or "LVM"?

Maybe saikee can post some sample fdisk output so you can see what to look for and where to look.

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

triandrew2001 said:


> This is running on a different machine.... cannot copy & paste to here, unless I can save it to a USB flash drive somehow.


You could try running the web browser on the LiveCD. There might be a Mozilla Firefox icon on the left of the screen. It's orange in color. If you move the mouse over that and it says "Firefox", you can run that and login to this forum. Then, you can copy/paste, like saikee mentions above.

Peace...


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

The default web browser of my Fedora 11 is Konqueror!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

That's because you have the KDE desktop. I found a screenshot of the default GNOME 3 desktop and there's a Firefox icon on the left side of the screen, at the top.

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Could you post sample "fdisk -l" output so he knows where to look for the filesystem indicator?

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

```
Disk /dev/sdc: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders, total 1953525168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000d7f4c

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1   *          63      208844      104391   fd  Linux raid autodetect
/dev/sdc2          208845     4401809     2096482+  82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdc3         4401810  1953520064   974559127+  fd  Linux raid autodetect
```


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Never used Type fd partition myself as I steer clear of the RAID.

Linux kernel is normally quite good for mounting the partition. The main data is in your sdc3 as Swap in sdc2 is just a scratch area and has no filing system of its own. Your sdc1, about 100Mb, is too small to hold any thing. Try to mount it by commands

```
mkdir /mnt/sdc3
mount /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
ls /mnt/sdc3
```
If you can see output from the last command (ls=dir in WIndows) then the partition is mountable, other wise some RAID expert has come in to throw light in it.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

saikee said:


> Never used Type fd partition myself as I steer clear of the RAID.
> 
> Linux kernel is normally quite good for mounting the partition. The main data is in your sdc3 as Swap is just a scratch area and has no filing system of its own. Try to mount it by commands
> 
> ...


U da man! :up:

Peace...


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc3
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
mount: unknown filesystem type 'nvidia_raid_member'
[[email protected] liveuser]# ls /mnt/sdc3
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```
See above my response from the machine. Any clue? Is there any way to see what if any data is on there?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Hey saikee, look at this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=825386

That same unknown filesystem type is reported in that thread and they were able to mount it by specifying a filesystem tpe with "-t".

I guess we could start guessing filesystems? Mount it as NTFS, or ext2, or FAT32?

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

triandrew2001 said:


> ```
> [[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc3
> [[email protected] liveuser]# mount /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
> mount: unknown filesystem type 'nvidia_raid_member'
> ...


We might be able to get it mounted if we can figure out the filesystem type. So, give these commands a try:

mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
ls /mnt/sdc3

and post the results here. By the way, how are you getting the output from the commands in this thread?

Peace...


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

From the man page of mount


> The argument following the -t is used to indicate the file system type. The file system types which are currently supported include: adfs, affs, autofs, cifs, coda, coher-
> ent, cramfs, debugfs, devpts, efs, ext, ext2, ext3, hfs, hfsplus, hpfs, iso9660, jfs, minix, msdos, ncpfs, nfs, nfs4, ntfs, proc, qnx4, ramfs, reiserfs, romfs, smbfs, sysv,
> tmpfs, udf, ufs, umsdos, usbfs, vfat, xenix, xfs, xiafs. Note that coherent, sysv and xenix are equivalent and that xenix and coherent will be removed at some point in the
> future - use sysv instead. Since kernel version 2.1.21 the types ext and xiafs do not exist anymore. Earlier, usbfs was known as usbdevfs. Note, the real list of all sup-
> ported filesystems depends on your kernel.


For Red Hat I would try

```
mount -t ext2 /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
mount -t ext3 /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
mount -t reiserfs /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
mount -t vfat /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
```


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## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc3
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/sdc3': File exists
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
NTFS signature is missing.
Failed to mount '/dev/sdc': Invalid argument
The device '/dev/sdc' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS.
Maybe the wrong device is used? Or the whole disk instead of a
partition (e.g. /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1)? Or the other way around?
[[email protected] liveuser]# ls /mnt/sdc3
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```
Following exactly what we did above, just changed the 2nd line... there's what I got.


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ok, then try these:

mount -t ext2 /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
ls /mnt/sdc3

mount -t ext3 /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
ls /mnt/sdc3

mount -t vfat /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
ls /mnt/sdc3

Issue each set ONLY if you get errors, as you did above. For example:


```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
[b][color=red]NTFS signature is missing.
Failed to mount '/dev/sdc': Invalid argument
The device '/dev/sdc' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS.
Maybe the wrong device is used? Or the whole disk instead of a
partition (e.g. /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1)? Or the other way around?[/color][/b]
[[email protected] liveuser]# ls /mnt/sdc3
```
The red, bold text is the error. IF you get errors like that after the mount command, try the next mount command.

Peace...


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ext2 /dev/sdc /mnt/sdc3
mount: /dev/sdc already mounted or /mnt/sdc3 busy
```


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

should I try the other two?


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Issue this command:

mount

and post the output here.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Try mounting /dev/sdc3 on /mnt/sdc3. (mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc3 /mnt/sdc3)

Normally one should mount a partition with a filing system inside. Mounting the whole drive with several filing systems will bound to fail.

You can try as many as you like as it would do any damage.

The command ls /mnt/sdc3 only give output if the mounting is successful.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

using just mount....


```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount
/proc on /proc type proc (rw,relatime)
/sys on /sys type sysfs (rw,relatime,seclabel)
udev on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,seclabel,size=443056k,nr_inodes=110764,mode=755)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,relatime,seclabel,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000)
tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime,seclabel)
tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,seclabel,mode=755)
/dev/sr0 on /run/initramfs/live type iso9660 (ro,relatime)
/dev/mapper/live-rw on / type ext4 (rw,noatime,seclabel,barrier=1,data=ordered)
selinuxfs on /selinux type selinuxfs (rw,relatime)
tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,seclabel,mode=755)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,release_agent=/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent,name=systemd)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/ns type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,ns)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpu)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuacct type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuacct)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/memory type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/devices type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio type cgroup (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio)
systemd-1 on /dev/mqueue type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=25,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
systemd-1 on /dev/hugepages type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=26,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
systemd-1 on /sys/kernel/debug type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=27,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
systemd-1 on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=29,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
systemd-1 on /sys/kernel/security type autofs (rw,relatime,fd=30,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct)
tmpfs on /media type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:mnt_t:s0,seclabel,mode=755)
hugetlbfs on /dev/hugepages type hugetlbfs (rw,relatime,seclabel)
mqueue on /dev/mqueue type mqueue (rw,relatime,seclabel)
/dev/sr0 on /mnt/live type iso9660 (ro,relatime)
varcacheyum on /var/cache/yum type tmpfs (rw,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:rpm_var_cache_t:s0,seclabel,mode=755)
/tmp on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:tmp_t:s0,seclabel)
vartmp on /var/tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:tmp_t:s0,seclabel)
/tmp on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:tmp_t:s0,seclabel)
vartmp on /var/tmp type tmpfs (rw,relatime,rootcontext=system_u:object_r:tmp_t:s0,seclabel)
/dev/mapper/live-rw on /home type ext4 (rw,noatime,seclabel,barrier=1,data=ordered)
gvfs-fuse-daemon on /home/liveuser/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=500,group_id=500)
fusectl on /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw,relatime)
/dev/sdb1 on /media/STORAGE type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096)
/dev/md127 on /media/f8997b7f-12eb-43d1-9529-ab0665b34883 type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,seclabel,errors=continue,barrier=0,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks)
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```
using just: mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc3 /mnt/sdc3

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# 
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc3 /mnt/sdc3
NTFS signature is missing.
Failed to mount '/dev/sdc3': Invalid argument
The device '/dev/sdc3' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS.
Maybe the wrong device is used? Or the whole disk instead of a
partition (e.g. /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1)? Or the other way around?
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ok guys, I gotta bail. saikee, it's up to you... "you're our only hope".  

I"ll check this thread later to see what happened. 

triandrew2001, follow saikee's instructions and you should be fine. 

Good luck!

Peace...


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks tomdkat. VERY much appreciated today.

Okay Saikee... your thoughts?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I wouldn't have though Red Hat would use the NTFS filing system.

From experience Red Hat always use a /boot partition and sdc1 is likely the candidate. The filing system should be ext2 or ext3. Therefore I would try to sort out sdc1 first by

```
mkdir /mnt/sdc1
mount -t ext[COLOR="red"]2[/COLOR] /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
```
if this fails I would try 

```
mount -t ext[COLOR="Red"]3[/COLOR] /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
```
 and then 

```
mount -t reiserfs /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
```
This is because there should be no complication with /boot which holds only the boot loader and the kernels. If you manage to mount sdc1 then there is a good change to solve sdc3.

One thing you need to find out is whether RAID 0 or RAID 1 was used. If it were RAID 0, which mean one disk holds one-half and the other keeps the other half then the partitions will be unmountable.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

First gives me this:

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc1
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ext2 /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
mount: /dev/sdc1 already mounted or /mnt/sdc1 busy
```
Second gives me:

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc1
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/sdc1': File exists
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t ext3 /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
mount: /dev/sdc1 already mounted or /mnt/sdc1 busy
```
...and last gives me:

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# mkdir /mnt/sdc1
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/sdc1': File exists
[[email protected] liveuser]# mount -t reiserfs /dev/sdc1 /mnt/sdc1
mount: /dev/sdc1 already mounted or /mnt/sdc1 busy
```
For what it's worth, when the 1st drive in this crashed, we tried replacing it with this one... and the rebooted. BIOS recognized disc, and then all e got was:

GRUB

NOthing else. No prompt. Only option was shutting it down. So I really don't know if this was ever properly configured or even was set up to mirror anything. At this point if there's data backed up there, and we can't get to it, I might as well just wipe out the entire drive, reformat it for windows and I'll instlal Windows Server on it.

do you see any hope in there actually being anything on this drive?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Can you try to list out the content of /mnt/sdc1?

```
ls /mnt/sdc1
```
I have already predicted you 2nd disk may not be bootable but it is relatively simple to make it boot again. The task now is to find out the filing system, mount it and restore Grub.

I have hope that your disk is a mirror and would contain the full information of the 1st disk. If you can read sdc1 then you will have access to the boot configuration file called menu.lst. You sdc1 should have vmliuz****, initrd****, /boot, /boot/grub etc.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# ls /mnt/sdc1
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```
Nothing from the looks of it. Just for sun I did the same to /mnt/sdc/3 and got the same results


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

From what little I've been able to read on it, can one set up a 2nd drive to only mirror certain folders from the 1st?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

The directories will be empty if nothing has been mounted.

However the message says sdc1 has been mounted so you can check it the following way

(1) issue this command at the terminal

```
df
```
It will list out the mounted files and report the used and free % of the partition or folder.

(2) Goto you desktop. The background should have a "Home" icon. Click it to see the files. On the left side is the folder names and one of it is "Root". Click it and find the "Media" icon and click it too. If sdc1 is mounted the other possible position to mount it automatically is /Media but it will be under a different name and not sdc1. You click every fold to see if there is a /boot directory inside.

Also right click every folder and check the size in property. It works the same way as in Windows. If you find one 200Mb (for sdc1) and another large one in hundreds of Gb then sdc3 would have been mounted there.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Your current disk will remain inaccessible until you can mount it. Once mounted you can do what you like with the contents inside.

I suppose if the information is important you can clone another one, put the two disks back and try to rescue Grub. If you managed to restore Grub then you can have the original system back again.

There is one thing you can do if the PC has a floppy drive. Does it have one?

You can put Grub on its own and boot Grub up. Grub can give you an opinion of the partition and can possible rescue the one broken inside.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

'df" returns:

```
[[email protected] liveuser]# df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
rootfs                 4128448   2225116   1861400  55% /
udev                    443056         4    443052   1% /dev
tmpfs                   447884       284    447600   1% /dev/shm
tmpfs                   447884       644    447240   1% /run
/dev/sr0                578310    578310         0 100% /run/initramfs/live
/dev/mapper/live-rw    4128448   2225116   1861400  55% /
tmpfs                   447884         0    447884   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs                   447884         0    447884   0% /media
/dev/sr0                578310    578310         0 100% /mnt/live
varcacheyum             447884         0    447884   0% /var/cache/yum
/tmp                    447884        24    447860   1% /tmp
vartmp                  447884         0    447884   0% /var/tmp
/tmp                    447884        24    447860   1% /tmp
vartmp                  447884         0    447884   0% /var/tmp
/dev/mapper/live-rw    4128448   2225116   1861400  55% /home
/dev/sdb1            244197372 222570652  21626720  92% /media/STORAGE
/dev/md127           959000614 501369764 408902898  56% /media/f8997b7f-12eb-43d1-9529-ab0665b34883
```
I have no HOME icon anywhere on the desktop. Just the ACTIVITIES link at teh upper right... clicking that gives me choices of WINDOWS and APPLICATIONS


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

oh, and no floppy drive.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

It is late in UK so I am about to leave you.

There is one more thing you can try and that is use the Grub inside Fedora. You do this in a Grub shell by issue this command at the Konsole

```
grub
```
This should drop you into a Grub prompt.

You ask Grub to show the partitions of the hard disk by

```
geometry (hd0)
```
Grub should report 0 partition is your sdc1, 1 partition the swap and 2 partition the sdc3. The information should be identical to fdisk -l in Linux.

You then tell Grub the root partition your are interested in

```
root (hd0,0)
```
Grub count from zero so (hd0,0) is the 1st partition of the 1st hard disk corresponding to sdc1. Grub should tell you what filing system it has found. Record this info.

Now try to restore Grub by command

```
set up (hd0)
```
If Grub does not report error you disk would be bootable.

If you want to exit the Grub shell issue this command

```
quit
```
 and you will be back to the Linux Konsole.

To reboot you can issue this command in a Linux Konsole

```
reboot
```


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I am surprised by these two entries in the output of df

```
/dev/sdb1            244197372 222570652  21626720  92% /media/STORAGE
/dev/md127           959000614 501369764 408902898  56% /media/f8
```
It seems you have another 250Gb hard disk and another possibly RAID of 1000Gb already mounted but not reported in fdisk -l.

As you can see these two items are in /media directory. Each operating system must have a filing manager to show the folders. Please search again. It may be hidden under Application.

Are you sure you have show us the full output of fdisk -l?

Red Hat is known to used a lot of symbolic links which is the same device or folder or file that have several names.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

I certainly appreciate your time and trouble on this... at this point we don't even know if there's anything else on the drive. I've about reached the end of my time to fiddle with this anymore. We have an old backup from January of about 1/3rd of the data. At least not a total loss. 

At this point I'm just going to wipe it completely out, forget Linux and install Windows Server on this and restore what we have from the January backup. The backup was made from a Windows machine, so I can restore it easily.

I suppose maybe later in the year as time permits I'll start learning some of this, and maybe I can consider Linux for a backup system in the future.

Have a good evening, and thanks again for our time.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

This machine isn't the machine the disk came from. I installed it temporarily in my Windows machine at home. Any other disks shown are the ones in MY machine.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

fdisk -l


```
Disk /dev/sdb: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
16 heads, 63 sectors/track, 484521 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x1212779b

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1              63   488397167   244198552+  42  SFS

Disk /dev/sda: 320.1 GB, 320072933376 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 38913 cylinders, total 625142448 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x04340433

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *          63   625121279   312560608+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Disk /dev/sdc: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders, total 1953525168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000d7f4c

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1   *          63      208844      104391   fd  Linux raid autodetect
/dev/sdc2          208845     4401809     2096482+  82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdc3         4401810  1953520064   974559127+  fd  Linux raid autodetect

Disk /dev/mapper/live-rw: 4294 MB, 4294967296 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 522 cylinders, total 8388608 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Disk /dev/mapper/live-rw doesn't contain a valid partition table

Disk /dev/mapper/live-osimg-min: 4294 MB, 4294967296 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 522 cylinders, total 8388608 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Disk /dev/mapper/live-osimg-min doesn't contain a valid partition table

Disk /dev/md127: 997.9 GB, 997948456960 bytes
2 heads, 4 sectors/track, 243639760 cylinders, total 1949118080 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Disk /dev/md127 doesn't contain a valid partition table

Disk /dev/md126: 106 MB, 106823680 bytes
2 heads, 4 sectors/track, 26080 cylinders, total 208640 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

      Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
[[email protected] liveuser]#
```


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

The LINUX disk in question is the 1TB drive


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

If the data has value I would strongly recommend you to keep the disk. A 2TB hard disk is UK is only £60 or less than US$100. Somehow I think the data would worth more if you have to spend time to recover the lost information.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

But at this point we don't even have knowledge as to IF the data even exists on this drive. We have no one here in our area that will even touch Linux. This was my last resort today, and now I'm running out of time to figure out if theres even anything there. It's gonna take me a couple hours to get Win Server installed and then get what I have restored. I have to get to bed in about 3 hours and get up 6 hours later for work, and we will have to start early in the morning to recreate what data we can.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Wait!! Hold everything!!!!


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

I was just tinkering around and I FOUND IT.

Activities > Files > 998GB Filesystem > home > shared

UNder there I found EVERYTHING.... ALL THE DATA. It's all there. So HOW do I make this drive bootable again so we can access it? Or BETTER YET, I'd MUCH rather get this OFF this drive (I have an external USB 2TB drive) reformat the drive to WINDOWS SERVER and then I can get it BACK to windows?


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Suh-weet!!! That means the LiveCD automatically mounted the filesystem and we didn't figure that out, for whatever reason. Ok, now that you can retrieve your data you have some options to recover it. If you have a hard drive that is large enough to hold the data you need to retrieve, put that hard drive in a USB external hard drive enclosure and connect it to the system with the LiveCD in it. If you don't have an external hard drive enclosure, connect a second hard drive to the system with the LiveCD in it. This drive can be formatted as NTFS. 

With this NTFS drive connected to the system with the LiveCD, you can mount that drive and then simply copy the data from the 1TB drive to the NTFS drive. Then, on a Windows system verify the integrity of the data you retrieved. Once it checks out, you can nuke away on the 1TB drive and do with it what you will.

EDIT: Ok, I just re-read your post. COnnect your 2TB USB external hard drive to the system and Fedora should mount it and put an icon for it on the desktop. Once you see it, double click it to open it and you should be able to copy the data from the 1TB drive to the 2TB drive. If you resize the windows of the 1TB drive and the 2TB drive, you can have them both open on the screen at the same time. Then, you can drag from the 1TB drive to the 2TB drive and wait for the paint to dry.  

Peace...


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

You can drag and drop files and folders in exactly the same way you do in Windows. Alternatively you can copy them in a Konsole. The latter is more flexible because you can work as a super user (In root or being the Admin)

After hooking to an external disk, wait a minute, and the file manager should show it up.

To make it bootable just follow Post #61.

Good luck.


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Would an external USB drive suffice? I have one already formatted to NTFS. Its' a 2TB drive. PLENTY of room. Will LiveCD recognize it as an NTFS drive? I should then be able to just copy the folders over using FILES in LiveCD correct?


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks for all your help guys!!! I'm off for a LARGE alcoholic beverage now. I will raise it in your honors!!!

Cheers..


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

triandrew2001 said:


> Would an external USB drive suffice? I have one already formatted to NTFS. Its' a 2TB drive. PLENTY of room. Will LiveCD recognize it as an NTFS drive? I should then be able to just copy the folders over using FILES in LiveCD correct?


Yep, it should pick it up as a NTFS drive and be able to copy the data a-ok.

Once the data has been copied, verify everything is cool on a Windows box. If the data checks out, you're set!

Peace...


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

So, where are you with this? Did you get the data recovered ok?

Peace...


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

We're underway as we speak. Purchased a new 1TB drive for that machine. Installing WIN SERVER on the new one now. Once installed I'll run LINUX again via CDROM, copy all the data from the backup to the new drive. Once done we'll reformat the former backup drive to NTFS, and will then install ACRONIS TRUE IMAGE to mirror the new drive to the backup nightly. We've also got a 1TB external USB which will be set up to copy the new drive weekly. Researching some cloud backup services as well.


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Cool! Good luck! :up:

Peace...


----------



## triandrew2001 (Sep 28, 2001)

Just an update here guys.... got everything resolved. All data was recovered, and converted to NTFS and is presently hosted on Windows Server 2003, and all in the office have access as needed. 

THANKS AGAIN so much for all your help!!


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Great! :up:

Peace...


----------

