# FTP issue with IE6



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi all,
I know that there is a later IE browser, and all, but I don't think updating is the issue here.
I am using Win XP SP2 (Yes, I know about SP3 but for now, I am not updating).


ISSUE:
I had been using the FTP with IE6 for over three years with no problems.
No major changes in the system at all.

Just yesterday, I was unable to click on the FTP icon I have to upload to my website/ storage space.(Not my ISP's provided space) The LOGIN box will come up and even if I click log in it still doesn't work. I had always saved the username and password so all I have to do is click on that icon to upload.

I just want to get to the core issue here and not start updating everything.
I contacted the provider, and he was able to access the site by entering the ftp address, and password. He knows of no issues going on right now with his system. but will look further if the following did not work.

What I have done today, is to clear all the temp files, caches, etc. I do not use autocomplete. All password lists have been cleared. I reverted back about 2 weeks on system restore point. Reboot, etc, to no avail.

I then downloaded a trial of WS_FTP program, set it up. The program falied to connect me to the site. **Thisis why I think it is not my system, but somewhere else**

OK. Logically, I think the FTP feature of IE6 IS working. I can log onto my ISP's webspace with no problem. So, the FTP feature is probably fine. (I say)

Using a seperate program mentioned, will NOT let me log in to my webspace account as metioned.

On the WS_FTP program there was an error message when it didn't connect.

Thanks for any insight into this issue.
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

The "425 Sorry, invalid address given" is the response from the FTP server to WS_FTP so the server rejected WS_FTP's connection for some reason.

What security software and firewall are you using?

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply
I am using Norton, and also their firewall. (I have the Win firewall disabled).

I disabled Norton and the firewall temporarily, and still had the issue.

All the settings were never changed and was always able to go right to the server with no problem. (I had saved the password and username so all I'd do is click on the shortcut for automatic log on).

Here is something new to add. I just got back from my daughter's house, she has a different ISP. I was able to logon to the server by entering the username and password.
This would prove at least the server in question is operating as it should.
This might narrow down the possible causes.

So now, I am thinking that is may have something to do with my ISP parhaps blocking sonthing, outgoing to the server? I might try to find someone with the same ISP that I have (charter.net) and see if they can log on.

So, Tom, can I assume that the FTP in Internet Explorer, is indeed working because it works to get to my charter.net server /webspace ?

Let me ask, is there somewhere I cab look on my system to perhaps re-enter the password and info for my FTP? Or is the FTP log in box the only thing that should be needed to log in.

Thanks for your help and have a great evening.
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

gary rabbitt said:


> Here is something new to add. I just got back from my daughter's house, she has a different ISP. I was able to logon to the server by entering the username and password.
> This would prove at least the server in question is operating as it should.
> This might narrow down the possible causes.
> 
> So now, I am thinking that is may have something to do with my ISP parhaps blocking sonthing, outgoing to the server? I might try to find someone with the same ISP that I have (charter.net) and see if they can log on.


Thanks for the additional information. You can try using command-line FTP to see if you can get connected. To do this:
Click "Start", then "Run" and enter "cmd" in the box and press enter
At the command prompt, type: ftp {server address}
Enter your login information
See what happens and report back here



> So, Tom, can I assume that the FTP in Internet Explorer, is indeed working because it works to get to my charter.net server /webspace ?


If you can get to your ISP's webspace for your site ok, FTP in IE is working fine.



> Let me ask, is there somewhere I cab look on my system to perhaps re-enter the password and info for my FTP? Or is the FTP log in box the only thing that should be needed to log in.


If you are prompted to enter your login information, that's all you should really need to do. Let me know what happens with the command-line FTP test above.

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks Tom,
I enter the command mode, but then I am unclear about what to do exactly.

When I enter the screen, it shows C:\documents and settings\ my system name>

I typed in the ftp address both ways.
ftp://ftp.mywebspace.com hit enter, nothing. (mywebspace is fictitous)
ftp.mywebspace.com hit enter, nothing.

It said that what I had typed was not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program, or batch file.

Next I reopened the cmd box.

I typed ftp on the flashing cursor, then hit Enter.
I got a line starting ftp>

I tried both ways of the server address again, and it said invalid command

There was never anywhere to type in a username and password on that "DOS" looking screen.

So, I think I m doing something wrong in that DOS box.

What I am thinking is somehow my ISP has blocked the IP range of the server I am trying to connect to? I use charter.net
My daughter uses another ISP, and I was able to log into my space from her computer.

I really need this connection to work ASAP, but I thank you for the help you are giving, it's much appreciated.
While I am pretty good at troubleshooting vintage radios I am trying to narrow down what works and what doesn't on the FTP issue.

My gut feeling says it's either my ISP blocking something. Since we said IE6 is working, (with my other space) and that the host's site is accessable on another computer, using a different ISP, his site would be working fine.

Hope this gives you more info to go on.
Take care,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

MS considers FTP to be a security issue, and I found IE7 even worse with FTP than IE6. But I did manage to circumvent many of those problems by adding the FTP site to my Trusted Places in Security. Some security updates have made it even harder.

An alternative is to install Flashpeak's SlimBrowser. It is just a frontend for IE with some added features of its own, and skins. But the one feature that I really like is that if you also install their BlazeFTP program, the browser automatically opens the FTP program at FTP sites and you can then access them from an FTP client. In any case, it would serve as an alternative method for times like this.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI Elvandil,
Thanks for the reply.

I think that it is possible my ISP is blocking something on the return path to this computer. I know that other programs are out there and allbut there is no reason this shouldn't work as it has in the past.

I know about the security issues with IE6, but for now, I am going to leave it in place.
The fact remains that I can FTP my ISP (charter.net) on my webspace. But I can't access my 'paid' host who is in the UK.

On the standalone FTP program, mentioned above, the error message is that it connects, but no reply is allowed through. (425 error)

So, even if I try to use other browsers, and FTP programs, I think I'd still get the error.
You mention to add the server to the Trusted Sited list. I will try that today.
I am also going to one of the libraries in town because I think they have the same ISP I have here.
It would be great if I were blocked there, because that would verify the ISP (charter.net)
is blocking something. BUT if I can get thru and log in, then I know it is on this system, and I will have to find out where to look, and wee what is blocking the path just for this one server I am having trouble with.

Thanks for your ideas, and I will keep working at this with you guy's help.
Best regards,
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

gary rabbitt said:


> When I enter the screen, it shows C:\documents and settings\ my system name>
> 
> I typed in the ftp address both ways.
> ftp://ftp.mywebspace.com hit enter, nothing. (mywebspace is fictitous)
> ftp.mywebspace.com hit enter, nothing.


You were close, but no cigar. 

The command is: ftp {server address}

So, in your case you would type:

ftp ftp.mywebspace.com

See what that does. 

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Tom,
I typed in the ftp.ftp.mywebspace.com (Fictitious here)
and the result said:
(See attached)

I am at a loss on this.
I keep trying the address in IE, the login box comes up with the password already in there. I retype the passowrd, but it still doesn't connect.

By the way, I added ftp.mywebspace.com to the Trusted sites list, and it still doesn't login.

I figure that if there is something here on my system blocking the connection, I would be able to disable the process, and the login screen work work. I have disabled the Norton AV and firewall. The Win firewall is already unchecked.

It sounds like something simple that I should look for, I just don't know where to look.

Let me know what you think,
Take care,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

It should be like this:

ftp ftp.mywebspace.com
or
ftp.exe ftp.mywebspace.com

Are you sure that the paid site uses the default ports?


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Elvandil,

Thanks. I got the address right this time. Both ways it showed that it did connect, but was closed by the remote host, because there was an invalid address listed.

How can the address be invalid, if this was the same way I conneced to that site with my daughter's computer (with a different home ISP)?

This is the same message I got from the WS_FTP program I tried.
I have a wireess router installed about 3 months ago. There was no problem with that and I was still able to connect to my webspace. So, I don't think it's the router. I have power cycled both the cable modem and the router.

As far as ports, I am not really up on how to check, or where to look, but I never had to specify any ports for IE to connect, either with my ISP or the paid host. I am assuming that they are the default ports.

Attached is the result of the cmd box. Same as the standalone FTP program.

Thanks for bearing with me, I am really at al loss as to what's going on.

One last thing. I went to the Internet Options, Content and the Autocomplete menu. I don't use that. But I cleared the 'forms' and the "passwords". However, when I try to log in, the password is already filled in (dots) in the login box. Maybe the clear button does not clear this login box?

Thanks, Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Are you specifiying a start folder, or just using the domain as the default?

Try ftp ftp.mywebspace.com/defaultfolder

where defaultfolder is the folder you want to access, like "pub" or whatever.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I tried to add a specific folder such as /ebay and I ended up with "Unknown host".
I think I usually log into the main page of the domain, it has about 3 folders, and the htdocs folder.

The htdocs is where I have a couple of storage folders.
I thred several times typing in the path to one of the folders to no avail.
The connection error only shows up when I type in the domain name only.

Update, I tried to add the domain to the trusted list in Norton's firewall, still did not work. 

Remember, I have the IE6 way to connect, and the standalone FTP program, both don't work. (IE does work on my regular ISP space)

I can still access the site using the http path to the individual files stored there, but as far as the FTP, it's no go.
I am getting desperate. 

Thanks,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Have you tried with the firewall off, and of course, specifying your username and password in WS?

Try disabling the DNS Service, in case it has a faulty cache. Or use:

ipconfig /flushdns


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
Yes, I have disabled the Norton firewall temporarily, no go.
I have tried to enter the info in the address box in WS to no avail. That is when I get the error shown in the previous posts, with the 425 error.

I also got the same words when I tried the cmd box.

I will look into the DNS Service, I don't want to do something that I can't undo.

ipconfig /flushdns does that just clear the cache? I did hit the repair button in the connection, and it cleared the DNS cache, renewed other things I think.

I spoke to the charter.com tech a few minutes ago. He wanted me to start jumping thru hoops, changing all kinds of settings, etc. I would not do it. His broken English was hard to understand and I think he was reading from a flip chart. I only called to find out if they were blocking ports or IP addresses.
He said he'd write a trouble ticket for someone to check the issue, and check back in about 2 hrs. Then he went into a sales pitch for charter phone service!

I said I might sign up if he solved my problem  but until then, let is rest.

I have another system in thehouse now, my son's computer, but he's not hooked up to the internet. I will take the modem and connect it, we will see what happens later tonight.

Now, here is the deal. If he can get on, then the problem is definitely in my system. If so, I don't know where to begin resolving that.
Will keep you advised.
Thanks again for your time, my friend.
Take care.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Disabling the DNS service will have no ill effects. In fact, mine is always disabled since I have an onboard DNS server. But it will insure that DNS comes from the servers and not the cache until you turn it back on.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

It's a long shot, but look at your hosts file, too, to be sure no IP's have been blocked. Does that site ping?


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hello Elvandil,

First to answer your question, the hoists file only has one entry, the default local host address.

Next, I tried to ping the website itself. using the address (not the ftp address). See atached for result. I think it is pinging, with no losses, right?

Ok I just got done connecting my son's comparable system (IE6 and WinXP) to the modem. Well, guess what?
I can't connect there either. So, I think that's good news for my system at least.

I strongly feel then it is my ISPs issue wouldn't you agree?

His system is rarely on the internet, in fact I think it's been at least a year. He uses it for games, photos, etc.
I am getting ready to call the charter.com "tech" and see what they say. Again, I am not going to change anything in my system. Often they mess you up more than when you start :0

Take care my friend, and I will let all know what happens.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, it pinged fine. I have heard of ISP's blocking port 21, but never knew if it was true.

Did you try using a different local port in WS? Are you using a router, or direct connection?

Please let us know what you discover. I just wish you were able to try it on a different ISP altogether to see what happened.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
On my system, I am using a Linksys router, and wired to this system, My son uses the wireless to connect his PSP and PS3 stuff. From the wireless I do have a cord to my system.

When I made the test on his system, I used the modem alone, no router. Same results.

I just spoke with a "tech" and he said charter never blocks anything. Maybe spam email stuff, but not IP addresses. He also said it could be the modem. It's an Ambit. I don't know if he's "blowing smoke" or not. Monday I will exchange it at the local office.

Could a modem somehow block somthing? I am receiving the website as you can see the ping, but when you FTP it's a different process?

I think before I exchange my modem, I will see if I can connect from a library or the ISPs local office.
My daughter had no porblems logging in to the ftp, she has cable from a ISPcompetitor, across town.
Well I'll talk to you later, this has got me burned out for the day 
Thanks for your continued help...
Gary


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ok guys, I think we need to take a step back for a moment. I did a search on "FTP 425 error" and found this article.

Gary, try using WS_FTP again and put it in "PASV" mode and see if it can get connected.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

The ftp.exe commands above were wrong.

It should have been:

ftp

Then you get an ftp prompt. At the ftp prompt,

open ftp. webserver.com


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> The ftp.exe commands above were wrong.
> 
> It should have been:
> 
> ...


Didn't he already fix the FTP commands in posts #10 & #11 on the previous page? He posted a screenshot of a command window showing the connection to the remote server and then the 425 error.

I think he's making it to the remote FTP server but it can't operate in "normal" FTP mode. Using "PASV" mode should deal with that and hopefully allow us to see what else is lurking.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

tomdkat said:


> Didn't he already fix the FTP commands in posts #10 & #11 on the previous page? He posted a screenshot of a command window showing the connection to the remote server and then the 425 error.
> 
> I think he's making it to the remote FTP server but it can't operate in "normal" FTP mode. Using "PASV" mode should deal with that and hopefully allow us to see what else is lurking.
> 
> Peace...


He isn't getting far enough to use passive mode. He never gets past the control exchange.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI guys,
Thank you.

I have already set the WS_ftp client set for passive, and also the IE6 set pf PASV. No good.

I entered the cmd box again, and typed as suggestet.
Here is the result attached.
Bad PORT number. Does that say something?
(I am going to run the test on my son's system later today.)

I read about the 425 error before, and thought somehow it was trying to use a previous socket. I am a little misty on sockets and ports etc.

But, when I used my son's system last nigth there could not be the 'time waiting' for a socket to be released It failed to log in from the beginning after entering login info.

Here is the deal, as it stands. The two common things that have been in the faiulres, is the internet connection itself, (charter.net) and the Ambit modem.

I am pretty sure that:
The remote location is working fine, as it FTP accesses on my daughter's syetm with different internet service.

It is not my system, as when swapping computers my son's does not log in to FTP either.

The IE6 does work for accessing my regular ISP webspace, so IE6 is fine.

Seperate client WS-FTP gives same error.

Firewall disable, antivirus disable does not help

So I will be better armed when I speak to charter tech support again, is it possible for the Modem to cause my system not to receive input from the server?

As the cable company says they do not block IP addrsses (except for spam email reasons) what could the issue be with them?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I appreciate the help.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I am on my son's computer right now (using the modem in question) and I tried the cmd box as earlier, and received the same Bad port message shown in the attachment above.

I am sure we would not both have bad ports, I think it's the failure of someone to send the message to open a port. OR if they are sending it, the modem isn't passing it?

The port is being received on other non-charter.net machines
OK thanks.
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

gary rabbitt said:


> Hi,
> I am on my son's computer right now (using the modem in question) and I tried the cmd box as earlier, and received the same Bad port message shown in the attachment above.


I think you are typing it wrong, still.

The command is this: ftp<space>{server address}

So, let's say I wanted to login to techguy.org using FTP. I would issue this command:

ftp techguy.org

There is ONE space in between the command "ftp" and the server address. There should be NO spaces embedded in the server address. If looks like your last attempt had a space in between the "ftp." and the rest of the server address, which invalidates the server address.

So, type this:

ftp

then press the spacebar once. Then type the rest of the server address (with NO embedded spaces) and press enter. There should be NO dots or other characters in between the "ftp" command and the server address. There should be only ONE space in between the "ftp" command and the server address. I believe you actually did enter it correctly back at post #10 or #11 and got the 425 error in response.

Is your computer connecting through a router of some kind or is it connected directly to the Ambit modem? Does the Ambit modem have a built-in router or firewall?

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Actually, you should type:

ftp

Then, you will start the ftp service and get a prompt that looks like this: ftp>

At the ftp> prompt, type:

open ftp.mywebserver.com

At that point, still using the control connection, you should get a prompt that looks like this: User:

Then you type in your name.

Then, Pass:

and type in your password.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> Actually, you should type:
> 
> ftp
> 
> Then, you will start the ftp service and get a prompt that looks like this: ftp>


I don't see what the difference is but we'll see what happens either way. I'm betting he'll get the same 425 message he's been getting all along.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

It probably won't make any difference. I get the same results logging into the MS site. But anything is worth a try.

Frankly, I don't think the problem lies with the machine. If any other FTP sites are accessible, and it uses the default ports, then something else is going on.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI,
Sorry for the delay, I am with the Red+ and we had to go out on a fire incident.

On the prompts, I tried it one way and get the 425 error, as shown in previous posts.

When I typed in after getting the ftp> prompt, I got the following attached.

No matter what I try, I have never got the prompt to enter a name or password.

Do you guys think it is plausable that it's the modem?

To answer Tom's questions, I don't think that there is a firewall in this modem. Also my connection consists of the connection at the wall, to the Ambit modem, then into a woreledd router. I have an ethernet cable from the wireless to the computer.

When I am using my son's computer, I use only the Ambit modem connected to the cable outlet. There is no router or other connection before the Ambit.It's straight from the pole to the house.
(We use the cable for TV also).

The wireless is for my son's PSP ans PS3 . As far as I know, that wireless doesn't use a firewall, and most of the time it is not being used. Used to be able to log in to the webserver with no problem.

I'd just like to have all the info I can when I contact the cable co. tomorrow. I don't want to change the modem unless you thin that could be the problem.

As an added test, I might get my daughter to come over, and see if she can connect to the wireless, thru charter, then the FTP. IF she can't get thru, then that would be three systems that can't log in thru charter.net.

Thanks guys.
Sincerely,
Gary R.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

That last one may contain a hint. I keep wondering what "wrong address" it is referring to.

You say you have used this site many times before? Has anything major changed, like your machine's IP address (doesn't really matter if your sister's works), are you behind a proxy of any kind, or is this supposed to be a secure connection (SFTP)? I'm trying to think of everything.

Have you tried Filezilla? I'm asking because it has a few new options, such as the ability to enter your actual IP in case the network IP is being transmitted by mistake, and as with any FTP, the ability to try dofferent ports. Are you sure yours is 21 and not another?

Have you tried IE lately? Do you get a password box now? (I do. But I get the same errors you do by all other methods, including Filezilla.)

And you can aonnect to other FTP sites, right, like ftp.microsoft.com?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

I agree.

Gary, as a sanity check can you see if you can use either the command line FTP or WS_FTP to access this FTP site:

ftp.gnu.org

That is the complete server address. If you get prompted to login, use the login id "anonymous".

Let us know if that works or not.

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> That last one may contain a hint. I keep wondering what "wrong address" it is referring to.


I'm thinking it's the "ftp" in the command. He apparently entered:

ftp> open *ftp * {server address}

I'm thinking the "wrong address" refers to the "ftp" in the open command. Before that, he issued an "open ftp.{server address}" command and got the 425 error.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, I didn't see that at the top. But we do need to know if other FTP sites work.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys,

I am not behind any proxy server, the service comes from the pole to the house, to the modem.
I have an icon on the desktop that I had always used to access my website, for well over three years now.

The reason I was testing my daughter's system on another ISP is to see if the server was actually working as my host said it was. The login screen was there and I did login , I assume the host was working at that point.

As far as the port, I did see that 21 is mentioned in the WS porg, and also in my registry whenm I looked thru it.
I just tried IE6 and it's still a no-go.

Now, Tom, I was able to access the gnu site with all three ways, the WS client, and the command line, also using IE6.
Attached is image of the command way, and the other ways, I seen the folders and files at gnu.org.

Now, I assume gnu.org site uses port 20 and 21 for communication? 
Do I need to ask my host to verify which ports that his server is using?

What do I need to ask my ISP?

As I think my systems here are OK (son's) then can we think that the host is not sending to the right port?

Why would my daughter be able to receive te site if the wrong port is being sent to.

I owe you guys a virtual steak dinner 
Thanks.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

It is most likely that the site uses the default port 21, so I don't really think that is the problem. I'm sure 21 was used on your sister's machine if you didn't change it.

So you don't even get the log-in box with IE? I just tried again, and the box popped up for me to fill in. That is a function of the control port before the switch is made to the data port, so you should be able to get that far. I still get the 425 at the command line, though, and also in FileZilla, and BlazeFTP. In FTP Voyager, besides the usual 425 at the start, I get "User Name Incorrect" and "ERROR:> Socket error: WSAENOTSOCK - Socket operation on non-socket. Connection may have been prematurely closed. (10038)"


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

I am sorrry Elvandil, I am always able to get the login box thru IE.

I have never lost that, but each time I manually enter login info, or password info it fails to log in. 

Previously, I had used the "save password" option on that box, so it was easy to click on the icon, and I was logged in.

IE does not show an error code, so I wa only able to find that out with WS client detals.

I just checked the WS port and it shows it's set for default, 21.

So, what would you suggest? Should I ask the host to verify that the port is set to 21?

I am going to the library tomorrow, as I think they use Charter ISP, and I will see if I can FTP from there. If I can't, then that would rule out my system as the problem.

It was just so easy to use IE and transfer over files.

This is weird.
Thanks...
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, I'd be very curious how it connects from other locations. My idea that the IP that your host would connect to was restricted was proved wrong by your sister's machine. I was thinking that when you signed up, you may have given them your IP and the site only accepted FTP connections from that IP, but that yours changed. No such luck.

Let us know how the library comes out.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> I still get the 425 at the command line, though, and also in FileZilla, and BlazeFTP. In FTP Voyager, besides the usual 425 at the start, I get "User Name Incorrect" and "ERROR:> Socket error: WSAENOTSOCK - Socket operation on non-socket. Connection may have been prematurely closed. (10038)"


You've been able to get the 425 error when connecting to his FTP address? I tried using command-line FTP on Linux and was prompted to login, as expected. I didn't get any 425 error at all.

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Good morning guys,

I do get the Login prompt from IE only, saying to is unable to login with the usrname and password supplied. There is no place to see the 425 error there.

With command line and WS, I see the 425 error displayed.

I'll bet that of you'd enter the username and password with Linux and your ISP you would be able to connect. I'd perfer not to post the details online obviously.

I am going to hold of on exchanging the modem for now, and go to the library in a little bit. Hope they use Charter ISP.

Also, I will relay all this info to my webhost, and have him verify that all ports are sending properly. Requesting a username and PW change might not change anything, as the PW does work on other ISPs.

I just don't know if one or both the ISP and the host is responsible for the issue. I don't think it's here.

Will get back to you fellas. Take care,
Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi 
I just got back from the library,
They do use the same internet provider. I was able to log in to my webspace.

The only thing not in common is they use IE7 for their browser.

So what does that leave us with? The modem? Hard to believe it would have trouble with only one site. Other FTPs go thru it fine.

Could there be something locally like from a distribution point where the cable goes to the different sub divisions, then routed to the poles?

My server host has not got back to me yet, I guess it's eveining in the UK right now.

The only test I would try next, is to see if my daughter can connect thru the wireless and my ISP. If she can't, then I suspect it's the modem... somehow
.Might have her come over tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks, I will check back later.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

I don't see how it can be the modem if other sites go through. What type of modem? Is it programmable?


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi, Elvandil,

I am using an Ambit 60194E

http://216.219.140.181/60194E.cm.datasheet.pdf

I don't think it's programmable, and there isn't even a power switch on it.
I would tend to agree, it's not the modem as I can acces other FTPs with it. Unless it has a problem with a range of addresses or something.

It has a USB connection but I don't want to mess with that part. installing drivers etc. Modem works fine otherwise, as it is.

I will hold off on changing it out, until my host gets back to me. Today, I found a few other FTP type sites I could connect to with no problem. Something is fishy here for sure.
Will talk to you later, take care,
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Have you tried booting into "safe mode w/ networking" and see what happens?

If not, give it a try.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

gary rabbitt said:


> Hi, Elvandil,
> 
> I am using an Ambit 60194E
> 
> ...


 Maybe you can find out from the host if they limit the ports that they use, or if they use a port range. Could be that something is using the port on your machine that they want for data.

Have you installed or changed anything lately that accesses the internet? Take a look at what is using your connection. Maybe you can terminate at least some of the non-system processes that tie up ports:

Current Ports

Modems don't generally do anything "intelligent", so I really don't expect anything special from that.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,

Thanks for that neat utility.
I will use it more tomorrow.

I did see that when I try to log on to the server in question, immediately there is a Time Wait on the list. It did show port 21 on the list for that try. I'd post a screenshot but it has a lot of IP addresses, and maybe it's not best to post that here in public.

Refreshing and closing IE, there is no incident of the Time wait anymore.
I don't see anything else using port 21.

As a test, I used the FTP to gnu.org.
Connection showed established, and was using port 21.

Another test using the http, showed port 80 being used whih is default I guess.

I have not added anything to the system to access the net, only the WS ftp after the problem started.

My host just said he had tech guys looking at the situation, so will wait and see what's up. Been a long day, gotta get some sleep.
Thanks again, and take care,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, it doesn't appear to be port 21 that is the problem. It is when the server sends back a message about what port to open for data transfer that the problem occurs. The 425 can occur if it picks a port that is in use, but changing from active to passive and back should give different responses, but does not seem to.

For passive connections, all ports 1024 and above should be forwarded through a router. Of course, 21 needs to be, too.

But, even though some FTP clients may send a "port" command that points to a port that is in use. the MS command line always picks one that is not being used, so that is pretty much a dead-end, too.

The server being misconfigured is also a possibility, especially if it is behind a firewall and NAT is not forwarded properly. Again, however, there would be no connections and not just some that were not working.

It is still a possibility that they limit their data port to only one or only a few ports and those are in use on your machine. So it is still possible that the problem is on their end, and that some machines could connect and others not.

If you talk with them, definitely ask if they use a port range.

(Yes, port 80 is where all our web pages come in.)


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I wwas in contact with the host today, he says his guys are puzzled at this issue.

* I was asked to command line ipconfid /refresh that didn't help.

* I Pinged using the IP address, and to me it looked ok. no packets lost, etc.

* Trying to connect to the server using the IP address did not work.

* Command line to the server showed the 425 error

* WS client to the IP address failed, 425 error.



The Curr-ports utility you gave me, showed something perhaps. Well, there was nothing using port 21 other than IE at the time of attempted login below.

When I tried to connect with IE, (if failed as usual) but there were 4 lines on the utility for that one try.
All were using port 21, and all had Time Waiting specified.
All showed Local Ports 4524, 4525, 4526, and 4527.

Nothing else was using those ports either.
This is geting strange.

Thanks Elvandil,
Gary


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Those ports are generally used for LDAP. Not sure that really tells us anything.

In CurrPorts, have you enabled all the different types of connection in the options at the top, even those for unknown processes?

Did you happen to ask if they limited the port range?


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Waiting on reply from host on the range question.

I have all checked except Advanced filters, and Auto refresh.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

I've just recorded all the packets of data exchanged with the site in an attempt to connect. I'm not sure I'm smart enough to figure out what they all mean, but one interesting thing showed up, which I guess we already knew. My machine tries to connect to the server ftp port 21 on port 57321. That connection succeeds, and there follow some data exchanges (which I'm trying to figure out) and then the session is closed. No data port is ever opened.

I'll keep looking, and trying to read the log. I might as well be learning ancient Greek


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks Elvandil,
I really appreciate the help.

Why the session closes is a mystery, good luck.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

There is no data port for me because the sign-on is still carried out in the control session, and the data port is not opened until after the sign-in takes place.

Just for the heck of it, try an IE sign-in with the format of having the name and pass in the address.

ftp://username:[email protected]

Does a box still pop up? If so, then it is not accepting the username and password.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
That did not work either, it did go to the login box, re-entering info still no login.
The host sent this about the ports:

"The ports are not limited, and ports 20 and 21 are the ports used for FTP. One for outgoing and one for incoming traffic.
I have passed your previous answers over to Tech Support and I am awaiting their response."

So, that's where we stand with the ost atthispoint.
I am still waiting my daughter to come over, and connect her laptop ans see what happens.

Remember, she was able to log in with different ISP, so if My ISP doesn't allow her to login, it would not be a system issue. (I think).

Thanks again,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

OK. I'm going to ask the obvious here, but are you sure the login is correct? The log-in box usually pops up only if the details are not correct. Could the password have been changed somewhere along the line? Did you verify with the host that you guys have the same log-in information? (Yes, I know that it worked elsewhere. I'm also wondering about character encoding--that it could have been changed and the same log-in is incorrect characters, even though they appear to be right. Check your IE encoding. Try UTF-8 if it is not already set to that, and then the various Windows encodings. You might also make sure that UTF-8 is enabled in the Internet Options > Advanced.)


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

I already have the UTF-8 selected in the Internet options advanced, AND the view/ encoding. (That was set for autoselect. also)


No change,
I was also wondering if the password was sending correctly. I have verified with host that the username and password was correct.

I just don't know if he is receiving them correctly to open the server.

Thanks.....


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

LOL. I knew that had probably been checked and I assumed that you wouldn't think I was insulting your intelligence since you knew by now that I wasn't here to call you names 

That is a UK site. Any changes in your keyboard or anything? There are some minor differences between the US and UK keyboards, and I think even a couple letters are interchanged.

(Really grasping at straws now.)

I suppose you could also try turning UTF-8 off.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
No I never even thought about anything that would be insulting at all,  I appreciate the help. Heck, I'd let someone insult me if it would fix the problem, lol.

Every little bit can help.

I tried turining UTF-8 off and back on. I hate to call in a charter tech to the house, often they don't know what they're doing, and don't listen to what you have tried already and not tried. It can make their job easier if they and the customer would work together.

I know we are runnig out of things to check, but I have faith that the problem will be solved somehow.
I wonder if I restored back a couple more weeks that would do anything? Just in case something was changed without me knowing it. I don't download much or install new programs hardly at all. 
I use the site mainly for storing photos for Ebay, etc and having a little personal website. I'll check the keyboard settings just in case.
Take care, and I do apprecaite the help and your time.
Gary


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Depending on your machine and the space involved on the drives, you could also try a parallel installation of another OS.

Or you could try running an OS in VirtualBox. Or try accessing the website from a booted Knoppix CD (that has an FTP client, browsers, and networking, all running just from the CD with no installation necessary).

It all seems kind of drastic, but Knoppix is very handy to have around and can also be used for file recovery. It would at least tell if if another OS on the very same machine could connect. It would really all depend on whether Knoppix could use your modem.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Gary,

Have you tried booting in safe mode w/ networking? Booting in safe mode will load less stuff than a normal boot. That way, if something on your system is involved we can readily know it relatively easily.

I also agree with trying a Linux liveCD to see if it encounters the same problem.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, Safe Mode is definitely worth a try, depending on whether it loads your modem driver, or one is even needed. But that would eliminate a lot of background junk that could be interfering.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys,

I woule do the other OS as a last resort, st least that's another option.

But I will try the Safe Mode boot, and see if I can get to the server that way.

My host got back to me today and they didn't find anything.

"Tech support have got back to me.
> They have checked everything they can think of, including FTP blacklists and IP blocking there is no reason on our end for you not being able to access the server.
> 
> They believe it is due to your ISP.
> We have tried remote access to macines in the US, without any problems.
> Sorry I can not be the bringer of good news, but the only thing they can suggest is to contact your ISP."

I will get back to you later and let you know what happens.
Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Guys,
I just tried Safe Mode, (network enabled), and I was not able to log in. I was able to FTP to my ISP webspace just fine.
The other server, login screen came up, and I typed in PW, was not able to login.
Hmmm.

I have an old Pentium3 450mhz I used to use, (I have never used it for the hosts FTP site) will connect that up and see if it works on that machine.

Will get back to you, and thanks 
Gary.


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## nso (Aug 6, 2008)

I just found this thread on Google in my search for the solution to the darned 425 and thought I should leave a comment.

I work at a fairly large web host in Norway, and we recently had (and have) a customer experiencing this exact issue.
I've allready done all tests suggested in this thread on the customers computer via remote connection. The connection to the FTP server is rejected as soon as the customer connects. The customers connect to a cluster, which can be reached by serveral IPs and servers - and I've tried a bunch of them with the same result.

The only thing I've found to contribute to your search is that our customer CAN connect to one of our Windows FTP-servers (which is hosted on the same LAN) but NOT to our Linux web cluster, as mentioned earlier.

Since this is a recent and undergoing thread it leads me to wonder if this might have some connection to a release cycle of some sort? Maybe that of Windows or some firewall software? Heck, maybe even it's an Linux server issue (allthou I find this really hard to belive under the circumstances, and I don't know if they were updated the last couple of weeks - I don't have that information available).

I hope you resolve your issue and I'm sorry I cannot be much helpfull (but know you'r not alone, there's a Norwegian out there with the same issue )


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi NSO,
Thanks for the info.
I know you mention Linux, but I am not running that. Win XP SP2. IE6
Seems odd though that I can connect but then immediately, the connection is closed, resulting in the 425 error.

And odd that I can connect using the library with the same provider, the host connects fine.

I have pretty much determined that it is not a machine problem here. I am going to connect an older Win98 system in a few minutes to see what happens. I suspect it will not connect either.

As the my ISP says they don't block anything, (as I can get thru on the library's system) I wonder if it could be from a distribution point somewhere between there and the pole outside the house?
That, and the modem are the only two things that are constant in our troubleshooting.

Well, we will se eentually I hope 
Thanks for the info, and I am glad this is turning up on the search engines...

Best regards to you in Norway from the US my friend.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Well, a very interesting result here.

I normally use a PPPOE connection. So, even on a standalone machine, I still effectively have 2 IP addresses: one for the network and the normal external IP.

So, was typing in the usual ftp ftp.mywebserver.com that we have tried for days and got the usual 425 error. Then I had a thought. My ISP provides a backup, dial-up number, just in case.

So I disconnected the broad-band and connected the dialup, typed the ftp command, and immediately got a different message: This is a private server, etc. User:?

So, for some reason, the server is not getting a valid IP from this machine through PPPOE but works fine on dialup.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> So I disconnected the broad-band and connected the dialup, typed the ftp command, and immediately got a different message: This is a private server, etc. User:?


Did you get the "Matrix FTP server ready" message along with the "This is a private system"?

I'm thinking a Linux liveCD would be a great test to conduct now. Gary, you can boot from the liveCD and if it supports your networking hardware, you should be able to get connected without having to install anything. You could use a Knoppix liveCD or one of several others.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Connected to ftp.mywebserver.com.
220-Matrix FTP server ready.
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
220 Please note: files for your website must be stored under the htdocs directory.
User (ftp.mywebserver.comnone)):

(Address edited, of course.)

Not that it matters, but I'm using Vista, so it isn't just Gary's XP SP2.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Yep, that's what I get using command line FTP on Linux.

EDIT: You think it might be an IPv6 thing? Gary, do you have IPv6 enabled on your system?

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Tom,
I didn't know about IPv6 so I did a search. 

The site said I was using v4. then my IP address.

I never installed the new "modern" internet version.

I am hesitant to use the Live CD, I have no experience with LInux if that's what it is. 

Let me ask, if it is a system issue, wouldn't the WS_FTP overridden anyhing to do with IE6 ? Bypassing IE and going directly theu the WS client?


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Nope. Just tried it on my system with the same thought. Even with IPv6 disabled and using only IPv4, 425.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

The liveCD isn't anything to be weary of. All you do is boot from it and once you have the desktop, we'll either have you run a command line FTP command ( like we've done on Windows) or use a graphical FTP client that will be accessible from the desktop environment. Once the test is done, you reboot off your hard drive and report your findings here. You could even report your findings while booted from the liveCD. 

You won't have to be a Linux expert to use a liveCD. 

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

I agree that Live CD's are great. If you find one you like, and have a thumb drive for saving what you want, you can carry your own OS with you, use other people's machines without ever knowing any login details, and leave no trail behind you.

And, unless you specifically write to a drive, your machine is completely unchanged after using it.

But in this case, after my dial-up result, I'm 99% sure that the Live CD will connect all right.

There is something peculiar about the server's response to our network settings. And, apparently, only this server.

Exactly what kind of connection do you have, Gary? In Network Connections, what do you see?


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

425 with both Ubuntu and XP SP3 running in VMWare. So it is not the OS, but the external connection type that this points to.

The VM's use NAT, but then the same PPPOE to the ISP.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi ,
I may use the LiveCD at a later tme, as it sounds great "taking the OS with you" 

Anyhow, opening net connections I have two 'connections showing. This is the way it has always been.

The first, the 1394 connection is not connected, as in the porperties it deosn't show IP addrsses, sub masks, etc.
When I hit the 'repair' button it can't do anything because "TCP/IP is not enabled for this connection"

The second connection lists the details of the IP address, etc.
I show attachments of what is on that connection.(Local area connection). This ithe one I hit Repair in case I need to reset the modem after a power loss or disconnect. It renews / refreshes the connection.

I just got back home, so I am going to try the Win 98 machine and see what happens.
That system I have used on cable before, but I did not have the remote server at that time.

Will get back, thanks.
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> 425 with both Ubuntu and XP SP3 running in VMWare. So it is not the OS, but the external connection type that this points to.


Are you running VMWare on Windows or Linux?

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Windows. This problem has to lie with Windows somehow. Since it works on dialup, with no complications with the IP assignment, I am looking at that now. With my PPPOE, of course, I have 2 IP's--the external and the "network" from the PPPOE to the NIC. I am still trying to figure out if the machine is sending the wrong IP to the server. But, even when I use Filezilla where I can specify in the settings what IP to send, 425.

I wonder if it is possible that it is not the IP "address" that the server is rejecting, but the Mac.

But I also think that it may lie is some network security setting in Windows.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI, I tried the Win 98 machine, I was able to go to the ISP's webspace, but could not see how to add files there. It was not in a folder format. I did see the files though.

I tried to FTP to my host server. The login box did not come up, but I did get a dialog box saying something like unable to open because of login ID was wrong. Whatever.

I then went to the command line wich was actually 'command' in 98

open ftp.mysite.com.

Got the 425 error.
So maybe this tells something? Not a Win XP specific issue?
Thanks.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, I liked the old folder view of Win 98. All you need to do is drag and drop to the folders from your machine.

We already knew that there was something peculiar and different about that web server since we are able to connect to all the others without a problem. Now we know that it extends to the command line in Win 98.

Try using the old login format for your space in 98:

ftp://user:[email protected]


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
When I connected to the other webspace, I did not have folder view, and there was no option to set the views. It was only a line by line showing of the files. I could open them though.

I tried to upload a file there for fun, and it would not let me.
This was a pretty old machine.

I tried the username and pass on the address bar for the hosted site, no-go. Tried the command line username password, and said invalid command.

The only thing it would do is set the 425 error, or the "invalid address, server closed" message.


Could it be a branch line from the main line? Would a modem get out of "tune' when transmitting data? I believe the neighbor has some kind of hookup from the pole, and it taps off of our line for their service and VOIP phone. It should be legitimate though.

Thanks.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Folder View for FTP has to be enabled in Internet Options.

If other FTP sites work, it really boils down to something with the server. And if the server works for everyone else, then it boils down to the server's response to something on our machines or in our network setup.

tell me. When you do an ipconfig /all do you see a number of tunnel adapters that say they are not connected?


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Give explorer.exe a chance at this, too. Apparently, explorer can make active ftp connections. So, open up C:\Windows and then type the ftp address in the address bar. I at least get a logon box for that.

Also try with your ipsec service both enabled and disabled. I'm trying to figure out how to edit ipsec policies now.

And what firewall are you using? Turning it off does not mean that it still doesn't block connections. Most also run a background service and load a driver to block connections during boot, so it may not be completely disabled when turned off.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I was unable to get the WIndows Explorer to do anything.
Bringing up C:\ windows showed all the Windows folders/files. Adding the address of the site in the address bar brought up a box saying that file was no found.

"Also try with your ipsec service both enabled and disabled. I'm trying to figure out how to edit ipsec policies now"

Not sure of what to do here.

"And what firewall are you using? Turning it off does not mean that it still doesn't block connections. Most also run a background service and load a driver to block connections during boot, so it may not be completely disabled when turned off. "

I have the Windows firewall disabled, and am running Norton 2005 (Currently updated)

When I have went to Safe Mode today, I thought all virus and firewalls would be off.

My daughter's wireless laptop is here, however I am having a time getting it to boot up. It's her 'spare' computer. If I can get it running I will see if I can connect on that, thru my wireless.
I will also see if I can connect thru a neighbor's wireless, but that's on a different provider.

what I really need is a neighbor who has my ISP, if this is a branch line issue that would help the diagnosis if they can't connect either to my webspace.

I will check back, but it's been a long day here.
Thanks for all the help.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Really? You typed:

ftp.mysite.com

in the address box and it did not try to connect? It doesn't have to be Windows--any folder will do. That should work for FTP or even a web page. It always worked for me in 98, ME, and XP.

Did you remove the other address from the box first? In any case, explorer can make an active connection and ftp.exe only passive.


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## nso (Aug 6, 2008)

I belive the active/passive discussion is outside the scope of this peticular case.

Active/passive is negotiated after the client has connected to the server - but the client is dropped from the server before it gets a chance to perform the mentioned negotiation.


What sparks my interest is Elvandils(?) attempt at connecting with another dialup. Since this worked and the normal connection did not work; this indicates to me that there is something in the new route between client and server which is mucking about in a different fashion than the original route.

I belive, for the above mentioned reason, that this must be an configuration related matter in a firewall/proxy/gateway/etc between the client and the server - and most likely in the clients ISPs network (or a lot more people would be seeing this).

Frankly, I have no idea what configuration issue this could be, and it sounds strange to me that such a large carrier as charter would have this issue on some locations (they tend to have uniform equipment). 

Hey, at least it's a theory


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

We are connecting to the server. It is during the negotiation about data port that things seem to be falling apart. So *tomdkat's* original suggestion that passive mode be tried was a valid suggestion.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Gary,

I know you've been in contact with your website host's tech support on this. Would you ask them to look in their FTP server message or error log to see if their FTP server is logging anything that might provide some useful information?

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Good morning guys.
Elvandil, I was unable to connect through Windows Explorer, I did get the login box to come up though.

Tom, I had asked the host if there was a log of some kind, I believe his guys were looking at every possibility, but I can ask again.Nothing new in the email this morning from him.

By the way, I don't think Charter had Dial-Up numbers to test.

As Charter is very large, there still can be some areas where their equipment would not allow something to go thru. Perhaps it is just at our pole, or up the street at a distribution point? 
One year we were out of service for a week, until the found their boxes at the pole were connected 'backwards'. Nice. Sub contractors fault. 

Charter as a whole works good, but trying to convince them that it could be their issue is going to be hard. I think if I get the tech to connect to this modem, with his system he'd see the problem. That would eliminate all three of our 'test systems here at the house.

So, perhaps our "branch line" or equipment that serves our street is bad, as I can connect 4 miles away at the library using Charter, where it might be a different branch..

My son's system does not run a firewall at all, and has his trial Notron disabled.As I said, he rarely gets on the net, (last Feb.) and normally, the machine is not connected in any way.

In safe mode my system does not load anti virus or firewall.

I am getting ready to call the SIP in a few minutes. As they think that customers are dumb as a rock, it's going to be a challenge to get them to look at other things besides my system.
I will get back to you guys later if there is a development 

Take care all, and thanks.
Gary.


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## nso (Aug 6, 2008)

Elvandil said:


> We are connecting to the server. It is during the negotiation about data port that things seem to be falling apart. So *tomdkat's* original suggestion that passive mode be tried was a valid suggestion.


Actually, I belive this is wrong.

AFAIK; PASV is not used while negotiation the first connection to the server. The PASV command is sent from the client to the server after the client has successfully connected and negotiated IP addresses. The 425 error occurs before the client gets a chance to send the PASV command.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Elvandil said:


> When you do an ipconfig /all do you see a number of tunnel adapters that say they are not connected?


I used that command, got a blank black box for a half second, then it went away.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

You'll need to open a window with cmd and then do the ipconfig /all so that the window doesn't close. It will show all your network adapters, what IP they are using and what DNS servers.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks Elvandil.
Her is the shot of the results.
(IP covered.)

Wish I could pst more, but putting IPs and stuff the info in public might not be a good idea.
Thanks,
Gary.

PS, went back to library today, deleted a lot of stuff from my webspace, in case a size limit was involved or some strange thing like that. Able to see folders, delete files no problems.
They have several computers on one netwiork I guess, so my particular connection is probably different.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

OK. The IP address shown for your address is the default assigned to your machine by the router and not your external address. We all have the same IP (or range in the 192's) if we use a router.

That is somehow where our problem lies. I have a similar setup, but with one more IP address from my PPPOE connection to the network card. So somewhere along the line, I think that the wrong IP address is being sent to the server.

You already tried connecting without the router, right?

Maybe you could try Filezilla. In the options for an "active" connection, you can specify what IP address to send to the server. Maybe if you specified your external IP....


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Elvandil said:


> You already tried connecting without the router, right?
> 
> Maybe you could try Filezilla. In the options for an "active" connection, you can specify what IP address to send to the server. Maybe if you specified your external IP....


HI, Yes, that i sporobably the router IP. I think the external starts with 75.xx.xxx.xx

I spoke with "tech support" at charter today.I gave ger that 192 number and said that's a charter number, I don't think so. Som they are going to send a tech out Monday afternoon. I am gong to have a direct line feom where the cable eneters the house to the modem. That way he wont be able to put 'blame' on my house wiring 

One strange thing, I used to be able to clear my DNS cache using the "Repair" funcuion on the connection details page. It will refresh everything else, except it says it cannot clear the DNS cache. 
I cleared it thru the cmd line supposedly, said it has been flushed (ipconfig /flushdns)
and I have rebooted also.

Still, hitting repair, it fails to clear the DNS as it used to. Maybe have to do a modem restart or something. NOt sure why it's not clearing by Repair.

Anyhow, Filezilla is a standalone FTP client, like WS? I will look.
The webpage IP address of my site is the same I'd use when FTPing?
Thanks, I will check back later today.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, Filezilla is a very popular, standalone FTP client (it has an installer, but if you prefer, you can download the zip and not install it).

Is your DNS service started now? The error about not clearing it usually appears when the service is not running and there is no cache to clear.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Elvandil said:


> Yes, Filezilla is a very popular, standalone FTP client (it has an installer, but if you prefer, you can download the zip and not install it).
> 
> Is your DNS service started now? The error about not clearing it usually appears when the service is not running and there is no cache to clear.


I installed Filezilla, neat program.
I tried both using the webspace name, and the IP address. Also different settings like Force UTF-8, and other settings. No-go.

I am not sure how to start the DNS service. I never had to disable that. I thought it was always automatic.

I still get the 'waiting for welcome message' then the 425 error.

If you ever come down this way, I'll buy you a steak dinner 

Thanks,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

DNS service is automatic and should be running, but if not, that's why the error.

Control Panel > Admin Tools > Services.

We haven't fixed anything, so just a hamburger will be fine.

But I can't wait for the results from the tech guy.

Yes, those are the same messages I get with Filezilla--I was just hoping that it might work differently for you since your network is slightly less complicated than mine. I have the 192 IP, but also a 169, and my external 218. So that can lead to trouble at times.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Gary, when you booted in safe mode with networking, how did you confirm no firewall was running? Also, since you have Norton products installed I'm wondering if a Norton firewall is getting in the way. I had an experience where an *expired* copy of Symantec Internet Security was blocking me from accessing the Symantec FTP site to download the removal tool. Their firewall was blocking the FTP connection.

If you have access to a machine that DOES NOT have any Symantec products installed, that would be something to try. Or, you can try completely removing the Symantec products you do have installed (if you can easily re-install them later, if necessary) and see what happens.

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

That is one thing I still haven't tried. I have turned off Comodo, but it also runs as a service that is not configurale and cannot be turned off when the machine is running. It also loads a driver so that the machine is protected during boot before the firewall starts. So getting past all that will have to wait for my next reboot.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Fellas,
I guess I can't confirm that Norton didn't have anything running.. I will boot up again in safe mode and I guess use the Task Manager to see what is running.
I thought only basic things are loaded but maybe not.

I don't have the Norton discs, and would be a pain to reinstall actually.

In the Repair function of the connection, it still shows the "Cannot clear DNS cache" This is a new issue possibly. I flushed it manually thru command. Tis just started yesterday or today.

Will get back to you tonight on the safe mode test.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

The problem is that AV and firewall programs are driver-level applications. They often do not even need to have anything running to block or interfere because the drivers are loaded regardless.

Turning it all off is as close as you can get without uninstallling or disabling the driver loading in the first place. So we will get an answer, but it won't be a 100% one.

Next time I reboot, I plan to try to logon with Ubuntu. That is, if I can figure out how to set up PPPOE in Linux. But I think I have done it before.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Elvandil,
Just fgot back from Safe mode. seen in the task manager that nothing Norton was running. I understand about the drivers though.

I ran HIjack This also and seen most of the programs I usually run, so HJT might not show what was actually running in Safe.

In Safe Mode, I was able to clear the cache in "Repair" for the connection. However now in regular mode, It still shows I can't clear it/ Maybe it's no big deal. I'd rather be able to upload.

Here are the two shots I will send the host, they are of Filezilla and WS showing that it's waiting for a server response.

This could be an issue for both him, and my ISP to work out. I pay good money to have a good running ISP ad host server.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

All looks familiar, unfortunately.

For emptying the cache, it will empty if you stop and restart the DNS service. Or try it when the connection is not active (disabled). Mine is always off, but it really only needs to be emptied if it has erroneous information.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I have read mostly all your message, I found your problem kind of interesting.
To eliminate a lot of trying. You can try the folowing command in a dos Windows. command is : telnet the-name-of-your-ftp-site 21
you can also use the ip address instead of the site name, with this command you should get a prompt from the ftp server.

I did tryed it with your server and I get the prompt. 

again the command is telnet the-name-of-your-ftp-site 21

there is only a space after the telnet and another one after the site-name


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I should have added a little more info. This command will get you connected
but you wont be able to transfert data. The only thing it does is to prove that you can connect to the server with port 21, in a way eliminating the ISP if it work. You can prove that you are connected by opening a second DOS window an typing the command: netstat -an (no space between -an, only before it). You should see on a line (there is many) with an ESTABLISH to your server on port 21


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Tanguay,
I decided to do some yardwork today to take my mind off this stuff. It is getting frustrating. but I do appreciate everyones suggestions.

Anyhow, I tried the connect using the Telnet.


What happened, is that it said "Connecting" then it said the usual
425 Sorry, Invalid address given.
Connection to the host lost.

I tried to connect using only the telnet ftp.mysite.com without the 21

It then tried to connect on Port 23, no connection was established on either.
Why does it try to connect on Port 23 if none is specified?

On the other ways I have tried to connect, I specify Port 21. (Please see other screenshots)

I went to the telnet -an and it showed several lines, but all the 'established' connections were not the one on the server.

So what we are doing is the same thing as before.
The server dies connect, but a return communication is not opened.
error 425.

I have "tech" support coming on Monday afternoon. I only hope that I can convince him it is the ISPs fault. I asked for the pole and the branch lines to be checked.
Also I will have him connect his system to his laptop, then I will show him that a connection is impossible.

From that point, he has no business messing with my computer. As you have read, my son's system, and a windows 98 system does the same thing. 3 computers with the same issue, it hast to not be here at thehouse, only if it's the modem.

Using the same modem, same line coming to the house.
Remember, I am able to connect to the host using different ISP, and another computer across town using the same ISP.
That proves thatthe host is able to receive an upload. But not able to receive one from this point on the Earth 

Thanks though, it just proves that it is not in this system, and the results are always the same.
Take care,
Gary.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

How did you try the telnet. You need to open a DOS window, because I am surprised that telnet would get you an error 425, it only opening the contrl channel to the server and if I am not mistaking error 425 in FTP is when you open the data channel. Also the telnet does not ask me to login, this is normal. Also please provide a capture of the DOS screen.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Here are the output from my 2 dos windows

This is the output from the dos window of the telnet command to your server from my pc


220-Matrix FTP server ready.
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
220 Please note: files for your website must be stored under the htdocs directory.




This is the line from the second window using the command netstat -an I have removed the ip of 
the server

TCP 192.168.222.65:50307 2xx.xxx.xxx.x:21 ESTABLISHED

type IP of my pc :source IP of server:destination status
of port port 
connection


This test only open a control connection to the server 
can you do only that just typing the command: telnet servername-or-ipaddress 21

Also if I leave my connection up it will stay connected I have to close the DOS window
to close it


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

her a second copy the pasting kind of screew it.

This is the output from the dos window of the telnet command to your server from my pc


220-Matrix FTP server ready.
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
220 Please note: files for your website must be stored under the htdocs directory.




This is the line from the second window using the command netstat -an I have removed the ip of 
the server

TCP 192.168.222.65:50307 2xx.xxx.xxx.x:21 ESTABLISHED

type IP of my pc :source IP of server:destination status
of ................. port .................. port 
connection


This test only open a control connection to the server 
can you do only that just typing the command: telnet servername-or-ipaddress 21

Also if I leave my connection up it will stay connected I have to close the DOS window
to close it


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

the pasting remove extra spaces and only leave one between words

the word port, one should be below source the other below destination

for source port and destination port.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

It then tried to connect on Port 23, no connection was established on either.
Why does it try to connect on Port 23 if none is specified?


The answer to this questions is: port 23 is the standard port for telnet.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

I conducted a test using a PC running XP Home Edition I have at home. I WAS able to get the welcome message when using command line FTP. I have Comcast as my ISP.

Using telnet to connect to the server is a great idea! Thanks for the suggestion. 

Peace...


----------



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Tanguay,
When you mean DOS , I think it is the Start Run/ cmd prompt?
This brings up the black box "DOS" looking box. That is what I used.
I will try the process again.

If there is another way to bring up a true DOS prompt please let me know. I didn't think XP has DOS anymore ?


As we found, the client does connect, but it does not open a respose back.
I will get back probably tomorrow, it's late here, and it's been a long day .
Thanks guys.
Gary


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi, 
Well, I tried doing what you said, entering wither the ftp.mysite.com 21 in the command box.

It said that it was connecting.
Then I got the 425 message. I turned off as much of the AV as I could.
If I could get connected, one way, that would be great. But like you have seen in the other photos, I can connect for a moment, then the server closes the connection for some reason.

I have never got the log request for the Telnet (which you said I would not get) , or any other method. 
Maybe I am doing something wrong.
Tell me, do you think it's my system? 

OK

If I was connceted, using netstat. like I can with ftp.gnu.org I was able to connect to them, and it said " gnu FTP server ready", Then asked for username and password. That is as far as I got.

Then I used the netstat -an and seen that I was established to the gnu server.

That was a test to see if I am doing it right.
So entering my website info, either the .com address, or the IP address, I get the same result. 425.
So, I must be entering my website like I should. But I get the same error.

WIll talk to you later my friend, I need some sleep.
Thank you for helping me, Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Oh, one last thing,
When I seen that I was established with gnu,org, it showed my IP address then :1806

Does that mean that I am established using port 1806?


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Yes, that means that 1806 was established as the data port.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ok, I've got some questions about the data port connection and when it's actually established. On my PC running XP Home Edition (SP3), I ran a test. In one command window I issued FTP commands one at a time and in another I ran netstat -an commands.

I'll post only the netstat -an output along with each FTP command I issued. Here is what happened:

-------------------------START-----------------------------

FTP command: (none issued, fresh system boot)
Netstat output:


> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> 
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> ...


FTP command: *ftp*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


We see UDP port 1044 was opened after I started the FTP program.

FTP command: *open ftp.myserver.com*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


We see I'm now connected to the FTP server and have the welcome message.

FTP command: *(Ctrl-C to kill the connection. Returned to ftp> prompt)*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


FTP command: *open ftp.gnu.org*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


We see I'm now connected to ftp.gnu.org
---------------------------END------------------------------

To keep this post from getting TOO long, I'll continue in another post.

Peace...


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

If we recapitulate your problem we can maybe end up with a conclusion

First: you can connect with FTP.GNU.ORG without problems this tend to say that your pc is working correctly and it also tend to say that your ISP does not restrict FTP for you.

Second: I can connect to your FTP server using Telnet and I dont get disconnected until I close it myself (the server does not disconnect by itself) 
I do not get the Login prompt that, but this is normal. I also tried using the normal FTP command in a DOS window (youre right typing cmd in Start/Run open a DOS window), so when I use the FTP command; I get the same 4 lines in the telnet plus the User login prompt and the system wait for me to enter a user which I do not have and did not wanted to try with the name ANONYMOUS because it is mention so.
You could have use that name (not in capital) with FTP.GNU.ORG and would end up connected to it (enough ratling)

In conclusion: I think that the server somehow recognise your address and he want to open the data link before the login but I am not really sure.
I really suspect that it is a problem/setup from the server or the pc because I cannot illiminate your pc.

To confirm suspicions I a sniffer trace of your communications with the server would be the thing to examine to see what the machines are sending.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Here is the rest:

-----------------START-----------------

FTP command: *(login as anonymous)*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


I am now logged in and DO NOT have any new ports associated with ftp.gnu.org opened.

FTP command: *dir*
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


I see a directory listing.

FTP command: *bye*
Nestat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


FTP session is ended and FTP program terminates.

FTP command: (none issued)
Netstat output:


> C:\Documents and Settings\Owner>netstat -an
> 
> Active Connections
> 
> ...


-------------------END-------------------

So, it appears the data port (TCP port 20) was opened when I issued the dir command. Also, note UDP port 1044 didn't appear to be involved at all since the data port connection was established on a NEW TCP port on Windows and was connected with TCP port 20 on the FTP server.

The FTP server has to be logging something on its end since it's detecting an error of some kind. After posting all that, I forget what my question was. 

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

gary rabbitt said:


> Oh, one last thing,
> When I seen that I was established with gnu,org, it showed my IP address then :1806
> 
> Does that mean that I am established using port 1806?





Elvandil said:


> Yes, that means that 1806 was established as the data port.


I don't think so (not meant sarcastically or anything ). That 1806 means the socket on his local computer was using port 1806 to connect to the remote FTP server on port 21 (or whatever port was displayed in the netstat output for the foreign address).

Peace...


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

What you show is that the control link for FTP is establish on port 21 and this is fron client > server, the data link is a little different, what you see in yours output of nestat is an ACTIVE FTP exchange. When you type a command like dir/get/mget/etc... a data link is establish but this establishement is form server > client. In the command you sent to the server, the client inculde a port number on which he will be listening, than the server establish a data connection from its port 20 to the listen port on the client. That is the reason why you see that the connection is similar to the one on port 21 (in your case your pc chose to listen on port 1048) The is ACTIVE mode
Passive mode is different, in that mode the client tell the server he want to use Passive, than the server tell the client on which port he is listening (it will not be port 20) following that the client establish the data link to the server to the port he was told.


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

tanguay said:


> What you show is that the control link for FTP is establish on port 21 and this is fron client > server, the data link is a little different, what you see in yours output of nestat is an ACTIVE FTP exchange. *When you type a command like dir/get/mget/etc... a data link is establish but this establishement is form server > client. In the command you sent to the server, the client inculde a port number on which he will be listening, than the server establish a data connection from its port 20 to the listen port on the client.* That is the reason why you see that the connection is similar to the one on port 21 (in your case your pc chose to listen on port 1048) The is ACTIVE mode
> Passive mode is different, in that mode the client tell the server he want to use Passive, than the server tell the client on which port he is listening (it will not be port 20) following that the client establish the data link to the server to the port he was told.


Yep, I understand all that and I guess the question that got "lost" earlier is: does this initial connection problem really relate to the server trying to establish a data connection? It seems to me the data port gets involved only after a successful login, which hasn't happened yet in this case.

Peace...


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

In communications terms one port is call the source port normally local and the other the remote is the destination port. This when you look at it from the local but if you look at it from the remote end it will be switch .

Exemple:
Locally
10.10.10.10:1050.....>.......100.100.100.100:20 
.....source port 1050 .........destination port 20

will be remotely
100.100.100.100:20 ....>.... 10.10.10.10:1050
........source port 20 ......destination port 1050

and the combination of the ip address and the port is called the socket
in the exemples 100.100.100.100:20 is a socket at one of the ends

Hope this help


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I agreed with your last description and that is where I am also confused. The reason why I could only have a better understanding is by analysing a trace of the communication. You can do such a trace on your own machine using a free sniffer sniffer application. The name of it is WIRESHARK.


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Because he did not login yet and he end up with an error 425, which means that the data link could not be establish; so one the machine is acting strangely

Also excuse my writing in English the more I do it the more I get confused with the words like "than then what with whit and so on......"


----------



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Good morning.

That is some impressive info, and I can see where the gnu.org connects. And I am able to do the same, but with my server host, the connection is never made.
About all I can do is Ping the IP address with no problem, but that doesn't tell about connections.

Is it possible for a telephone pole box (distribution box) not "tune" a certain range of IP addresses or protocols? I mean that 'some' FTP connections are possible, but not from this particular IP address. 

It's like if I tune a radio ok, but to a certain point, the 'reception' stops.

I will download the WIreshark.
However with all the information it displays, I might be in "over my head" in trying to figure what is happening. 

I just hope my Tech person is smart enough to look and see where the problem is.

As I said before, I will not allow any changes be made to my computer. Remember, Tanguay, when I first had the problem, I changed to a computer that is rarely used, and it showed the same problems. (plus the Win 98 machine)
So, three computers can't be bad.

I will try to let you kow what the Sniffer shows. Does it have some analysis in the program to show where a problem might be?

By the way, your English is fine at least for me. I wish I had the ablilty to speak more than one language 


Will be back.
Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Ok guys, I installed Wireshark and tried to do something with it.
It captured an attempted login from my webspace.

It showed immediately, the 425 Sorry wrong address mesage.
I don't know what to do further with this program, as I said, It's a little advanced for me, but I am trying to learn a lot here.
Did I need to install all the other programs checked, like RawShark, WinPcap,, etc? Or should I just installed the Wireshark only?

Thanks,
Gary.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

to answer the question about the pole distribution box with certains ip address; my answer is no

The one about wireshark, you need to install winpcap
There is some config to do to it


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

maybe there is no config; but I have never used it after a fresh install, I always configure it to my personnal taste.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

tanguay said:


> Because he did not login yet and he end up with an error 425, which means that the data link could not be establish; so one the machine is acting strangely


That's the point I'm making. I don't think a data link was even attempted since there won't be a need for one until the server has actual data to send. Look at it this way, the server sends the welcome message over the control link (on port 21) back to the client. In this case, we've got no idea what the FTP server is trying to do.

This is by far the strangest networking behavior I've encountered other than the Facebook/DSL modem issue also described on this forum.

Peace...


----------



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys, I am still here.
Tech support comes tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

Direct cable from the pole connection to the modem. Have the tech connect his laptop, and I try to login.

When it does not log in (99.999% chance it won't), then the ball is in his court to find where the trouble is, between the ISP and the host.
I pay too much to have a service that is not fully functional. 

Will be back, take care all.
Gary.


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Good luck! Keep us posted. 

Peace...


----------



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi GUys,
Well, I am about to come unglued. The support guy they sent did not know anything about FTP, what it was, or how it worked. 
He did not have a laptop, I explained (best possible way) what the issue was. after explaining, e was so confused because e did not have a clue wat I was talking about!

He did install a new modem, no change in the login issue.

I showed him the two FTP programs, the errors, no clue expression. I am sorry, I am just a little angry right now.

Then he began to say that becaue I did not have a Business Account, that these functions might not be available. Come on kid, it's generally basic stuff, going to a website, and exchanging data. He said that his "limitation" was to make sure there was a good signal, and that I could surf the internet.

WHat I did find outm is that about twoo weeks ago (about the time this stopped working) is that a locally installed piece of equipment was changed out. It was something that could use the New Internet 2.0 speeds or something, and that did cause some problems with users with the older modems. Hmmm...

It was equipment to also integrate internet, tv and phone together. 
When I asked if that equpiment could be checked, he said that is beyond his "realm" and it would take more calls from others to have it checked out.
Can we escalate this service call? I asked. He said well, no this is about all that I am going to get., at least from him. "Well send a specialist" who knows what they are doing and can understand what FTP is. He said there are no specialsts!

Who are the people who check/ maintain the equipment? He did not know. He called is supevisor. didn't hear the call, but the guy came back with two new jumper cables for the modem and splitter. That's what the supervisor said to do.

Me being a generally mild mannered person, held my tongue.I thought techniciand were supposed to be certified in all aspects of IT sefrvice.

There was a fellow who works for Charter that used to come out, and he was smart. I asked this guy if he could pass on my phone number and possibly request him to come out. Time will tell.

One last thing the guy here said was to get Charter and my host together and see if they can find ut what's wrong. LIke that's going to be easy to do.

All I know is that one branch line of Charter works (the library 5 miles away). My branch doesn't.
At least now we know it's not the modem. Sheesh...... I am going to work on my next plan of action on the ISP, and possobly ask my host if it would be physically possible to change some IP ranges around. Maybe that will allow a different signal to pass.

Take care fellas, and have a good evening.
Gary.


----------



## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Oh, boy. 

I'm afraid I didn't have much hope about this visit, but I was hoping at least to find out whether he could connect with a different machine.

I still suspect that the problem lies in some incompatibility between the protocols used by the host and the connection to your machine. I think that their equipment on the host end is old and maybe doesn't support IPv6. Though IPv6 is not involved in this, not supporting it means that their equipment doesn't know what to do with any IPv6 transmissions.

It's interesting that your local equipment is new and that the connection failed around that time. In a way, it helps confirm my theory since I think the host's old equipment/methods may not be able to navigate the new equipment.

No idea how ranks are assigned with your ISP, but I used to have the most luck with cable support by asking for an "engineer". The techs were usually just guys who knew how to connect the modems to a pole.


----------



## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hello my friend 

I have calmed down a bit, heck, today's my B'day (54) so I should make the most of it 

The guy who was here had no clue, it's not his fault, and I put myself in his shoes, and would not want a customer to go off on me. It's just that when a customer has done a lot of footwork, like we all have, they should at least sendsomeone out with a little more knowlege about the issue at hand. BTW, he left my wireless router unconnected and I just found the ethernet cable hanging in space.... OH well what ya gonna do?

Well, I called the ISP again, and after describing the issue 3 times, 3 different people, I was escalated to a guy who actually knew what he was talking about. A miracle greater than childbirth perhaps... 

Anyhow, he said that chances were it was not a provider issue, but it could be.

He seen what I was trying to do, remotely on his system I guess, seen the error come up.

He suggested that it could be one point on the path, the slew of servers that relay the internet between my house, and the server.
What he said was that if I did a Traceroute to see the hops in the path to the server, then Telnet to them and see if I can connect using Port 21

If I got a login screen, that was fine, as you were connected. If I was not able to connect, then that might be the point where the connection breaks down. Telneting to the port 21, and not connecting would be a possible reason why the listening path is not working.

Then to Whois that address, see who is the owner and report it to them. I'd have my host also contact the suspected server, and see why that ne was not passing the info through.
Does this sound like a plan? I hope so. It sounds reasonable to me. I hope it is a close point on the path route, he said if it was a Charter issue, they do get right out on it.

Take care. and I will check back later.
Gary


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

But the problem is also there for us, too, who have different ISP's, different locations, and different traceroutes. So if there is a problem, it may be closer to (at?) the host.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Exactly.
The tech on the phone asked for the password info and I refused. He might have gotten it anyway somehow. But he would probably be able to connect with the different connection path. So, that would do us no good. 
I am, thinking that since the library is able to connect, the majority of the route may be ok, only when it hets close to home it fouls up, so it could be a Charter isue

I will have some time this week to mess with it, and I will ley you all know what I find out.
Take care,
Gary


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Elvandil said:


> But the problem is also there for us, too, who have different ISP's, different locations, and different traceroutes. So if there is a problem, it may be closer to (at?) the host.


Can you explain more, do you mean that if you type FTP in a Dos window, you receive the error 425. Because if its is the case It would be interesting to compare the different IP address. I do not get the problem from my address, Mrs Rabbitt can you change the address that you get from your ISP, you can find the address by checking it in your router, by the way
what type of service do you have to your ISP, ADSL or cable or any other.

I dont think the traceroute will do much for your problem and I will be surprise that you can make a connection to thoses machines they are for the most part routers and they dont necessarelly have FTP activated on thems. They might have a client but not a server.

As mentionned before, a sniffer would be the best thing to tell us exactly how the communication is happening, how is sending what when.
Ther is stricts rules for IP communications between two machines
The trace might not tell what the trouble is but in can show a culprit.

Back to your IP address I would like you to ry to get a different one and try again. Normally ISP will change your address maybe once a day but it not set in concrete, they do it to prevent you from having type of server.
I beleive you said that it worked ok from your daughter place, check her ip fror comparison.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I forgot to say if you type FTP (server-name) . Sorry


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hello,
I tried to connect to each stop on the traceroute. I was not able to connect on any of them, specified port 21.

When I got to the last entry, my webspace, i connected then the connection was closed, usual error 425.

I use a cable connection, and the ISP does not provide a dial up backup number.
I am not able to change the IP address, It stays the same for a long time.

I have the Sniffer installed, Wireshark, and WinPcap but I don't know how to configure it to get the results we need.

I am able to "Capture" a connection attempt. I need to know where the chain of connections is failing.
My phone tech told me to try and TELNET to those IP addresses in the path of traceroute. Using telnet I cannot connect,and all attempts fail, except the last one, which is my webspace.
I have the tech email address, and he said he would help more, when he is between calls.

When I used DOS to find the traceroute, the path was the same every time.

I beleive you said that it worked ok from your daughter place, check her ip fror comparison.

I will try and get the path of the traceroute from her when she comes home on Friday. She does not use the same provider that I have. It is a totally different company, and she lives about 20 miles from me, so the path will be different.

I will have some time today to play with the Wireshark, I just need to know what I am looking for after I capture the attempted connection to my webspace.

Thanks and I will check back.
Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

I still think you should try the Linux liveCD. If that works, we will know the issue is specific to Windows on your computer. If that doesn't work, we will know it's something external to your computer.

Peace...


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

My idea was to see what would happen if aconnection was tried with a different address then the one you use but in the same subnet. 
I can show the trace I made from my pc to you're FTP server an explain each line, you should have a similar trace. I dont think you have to do config to Wireshark it I will capture.

I'll get back with a trace output,


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I will try to include a wireshark trace to your server from my pc using a Dos window or at the command line to say it differently
You should get a similar one fron your pc if every thing is ok, but we know it will probably be different because it does not work.
I also included an output of my display


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI,
Tried to use Wireshark yesterday, and today..

I don't know exactly what I am doing, let me be honest.

I can capture lines, when I attempt a login to the server. I then stop the capture. I have about 24 lines showing with different colors.

Selecting one line, I can see things below such as checksum, flags, etc.

When I right click on a line, and select Trace TCP stream, I see the 425 error.


As an experiment, I captured some lines from another FTP connection. The lines and TCP stream show other things like password required, connect successful, etc.


Let me ask, after I capture, lines from the 'bad server' connect, what do I do?

I assume the line #1 is my connection going to the next stage?

I cannot see a traceroute of all the servers involved. Looking at your examples, I see where each stage is connecting, etc. With mine, I only see the sorry error 425 mwssage on the trace TCP stream.
Sorry, this is new to me, and could be useful, I just don't know what to look at.

Thanks, Gary


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

First save the file under a name of your choice not to loose it.
Than use FILE>PRINT choose output to file it will be save in test file wireshark.out, you can edit it to remove your address if you wish and I can take a look at it and will get back with my findings


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi. I was able to get the capture to save in a text file.

I did see some "Checksum" not being correct. I don't know what Checksums are.

Perhaps there are other errors you can see in trying to connect to the 213.xxx.xxx.x server

Thank you for looking at the file.
Gary.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I did looked at the trace and I see two things. The first one is the checksum error; this could be normal, checksumming is a function to detect errors in a data packet. Also this checksum is only in the TCP header (20 bytes only) of the packet. Wireshark says that it maybe cause by "TCP checksum offload" this is a feature of the adapter, it calculate the checksum instead of the processor (offloading it). To verify your setup open the properties of you adapter, open the configure tab and you should have an option called "checksum offload" make sure it is at TX/RX TCP/IP checksum or none. (we can discuss that more after you check it). But I dont think that it will be the cause of the problem. All your machines at home dont work and you did not modify that on all of thems, isn't it.
The second more important is the response that you receive in the forth packet, just after the completion of the TCP hanshake, the server send a data packet containing a response (but we did not sent anything yet) that response is the error 425 and it says that the address is not valid. paste of the response = Response: 425 Sorry, invalid address given. With that I beleive that the server has a configuration of some sort to deny access certains address and your is part of it. So you should call the server administrator and have a little chat with him. The problem come from the server.
To see the address received et the server, a trace from the server end is needed. Normally server peoples should be able to do that. If it use Linux they can do a Tcpdump command on the interface to see what they receive and transmit.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

I have checked the setting in the adapter. I have four seperate items for checksum.
Offload receive IP checksum
Offload receive TCP checksum
Offload transmit IP checksum
Offload transmitTCP checksum

Each one is set to "ON"

I am going to copt this message and send to host.
Is there anything else that he should look gor?
He already said that he checked blacklists and blocking, and I was not affected.

With that I beleive that the server has a configuration of some sort to deny access certains address and your is part of it.

What kind of things can he verify are good in the configuration of the server?

Thanks.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

It does not hurt to try with the settings set to off. But I dont think it will make a difference. Try it any way. The server complain about an invalid address given, maybe there is something stuck in the server for your address, ask thems to reboot the server. I did a search and I found that you are not the only one to have a similar problem, but no solutions are mention. I saw in one that they had a little bit more in the error message from the server, it gave the invalid address message but it added at the end "address already in use". sound like a messed up server.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi, Turning off the 4 checksum settings did not do anything, I set those back to "ON".

Back to square one. My gut instinct says that it is in the host's system somehow, even though I can connect on other "paths" to his server. OR it is one of the servers on the path I seen in the traceroute.

As Elvandil suggested, I will ask the host if he can trace the signal back to my machine, if that's possible. Hopefully, the path will be the same I used to connect to him.
I wil include the Wireshark text I have , and maybe his tech guys can make some sense from it.
One question. You mentioned about the fourth packet something looked not right possibly. If there was aproblem there, does that mean it it the fourth 'hop' on it's way to the server?
I did not see any path info such as the IP address of the server, like was seen in a Traceroute .

Thanks, Gary.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Having the server do a traceroute wont make a difference, traceroute is use to discover the path to the other end and all the machines you see in the output are routers or routing switches; they only route the packets on their way to the destination and normally the return path will be the same in reverse but not absolutly true, you can have an asymetric path between you and the server that will also work. Your problem is not one of routing, the routing work, the of that is you can ping an the trace show that you get the answer from the server. HO! by the the addresse where kind of removed by you in the trace file. I assume that it is the address of the server and I know that the one with 192.xx.xx.xx are from your pc there was no need to hide the 192 ones (no one can connect to it) they are not routed on the Internet
What I mean by the fourth packet it is the packet after the three way hanshake.
TCP/IP connection are establish by an exchange of three packets they are in order
a SYN , a SYN-ACK, and an ACK this is called a Three Ways Handshake 
In your trace you did tried more then once three times I beleive; you can see the handshake complete correctly in each try. This prove that the server is awaken and answer to you connection (by the connection can be establish from eather end) 
The fourth packet should contain the normal prompt from the server to be able to login.
In your case the server send an error packet as a response In that error it is mention that the address given is invalid. The only address that you sent is your which is not the 192.xx.xx.xx that adress is natted to the address that your ISP is providing you and there is nothing wrong about that (normal way to communicate thru Internet)
The first three packet are exchanged correctly than
CONCLUSION the FTP server is mixed up after opening the connection.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Okay so from what I've read I think the problem has been narrowed down to the ISP ands its local connection. Either that or the server and ISP configurations conflict though I'm inclined to go with the former.

One thing to try would be to connect via a VPN or to route web traffic somewhere else and see if you can connect then via IEs FTP client

Two things come to mind that are pretty much click and go:

https://www.torproject.org/torbrowser/dist/tor-browser-1.1.2_en-US.exe

and

http://hotspotshield.com/

In the meantime as a work around try http://www.net2ftp.com/ or http://www.webftp.co.uk/ there are others if you don't like these.

Also considering that the standard troubleshooting methods have been tried we could try being a bit more esoteric, I've never known blacklisting to interfere with FTP but its worth a try so get your external IP

http://whatismyip.com/
http://whatsmyip.org/
http://whatismyipaddress.com/

And test it here http://www.mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Neither one.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

I doubt its an FTP server issue (atleast not in the way you seem to be describing) but I was trying to be tactful; would you care to elaborate?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Based on the fact that Evilandvil (sorry if I misspelled it  ) experienced the 425 error as well, I'm also leaning toward this being a FTP server issue but I'm just as perplexed about this as everyone else here.

Peace...


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

See I suppose its possible though FTP is pretty straight forward service. The guy could login no problem from his Daughters computer, guess we'll just have to wait and see I suppose


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

No problem; just download the trace file and explain what you see or think is happening, but dont use my words instead tell us about your better understanding of the problem. Thanks I am always eager to learn more.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Kirok said:


> See I suppose its possible though FTP is pretty straight forward service.


The FTP protocol is well defined and well understood. This doesn't mean all FTP servers implement it the same. 

It's strange since tanguay and I can get the welcome message using Linux (me) and Windows (both of us) yet two other people using different ISPs can't, while using Windows.

It's the FTP _server_ that is closing the connection and issuing the 425 error so the FTP server might be getting confused with something being sent to it. We just don't know what that is or why the FTP server is getting confused, IF it's getting confused.

It would be great to see the raw FTP server logs so we could see the activity it logs for the WAN IP Gary is assigned.

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hello fellas, I didn't disappear, had some chores I was getting behind on.

I can try the web based FTP sites, but isn't it bad, as they can log the passwords?

As of yet, I have not contacted the host. I will copy the last few posts from the forum so he can read it.
The way you describe it sounds like his server, but again, it is posible to login elsewhere.

So, the points (servers) of a tracerout do not have issues, such as allowing one way traffic by mistake? That sounded like a good idea.

Kirok, my ISP says they do not block anything at all, and the problem (the higher up tech support said) was somewhere along the route to the server. That is why he wanted me to see if I could conncet to each one along the route,(specifying cmd mode, Telnet and port 21) even if a login was required. He says that would show where the "bad" server was.
I am not sure that was a good suggestion.

He did say that IF there was indeed a problem, with one of charter's servers, they would receive more calls than just me, and since they don't receive any other calls, they are reluctant to check local equipment.

If I found a charter server that was not passing data, then they would try to look at the equipment.

As long as I can get on the internet and get a website, that's all they are worried about.

I will check my external IP address, and the blacklist site.
Will check back later.
Thanks,Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

The Blacklist sites were talking about mail servers. Does this work for regular servers, or my own IP address?

I entered the remote server IP and it came back with no blacklists.

I then entered my address, the 192.xxx.xxx.xxx and it showed 11 hits on a blacklist.
Where is this IP address coming from. the router? (See attachment).

My external address is a 75.xxx.xxx.xxx shown on the "whats my IP site"
That IP address showed OK, but with 6 timeouts.

Have we hit on something?

I don't spam or do any mass mailngs, so I should not be on a mail server blacklist.

Will check back. Thanks.
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Nothing outside sees any 192. addresses. Those are only on your network.

FTP has remained unchanged for a long time. But IPv6 has made it a bit different now than it was for the last 20 years. That's why my suspicion still about the server.

Fact is, that no tracing that can be done from your end will show any problems that may occur before the transmissions get to you. Their end should be checking traces, too.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks.
Before going to bed, I tried the web based FTP.Was hoping to use it as a workaround. I'll write the host tomorrow.
See screenshot.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Quote from Elvandil: "Nothing outside sees any 192. addresses. Those are only on your network."

May I add a little correction to this
The address that are used from private address are the following: 

Private Address Space

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has reserved the
following three blocks of the IP address space for private internets:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)

These address are not normally routed on the internet and theay are not allocated to any one in particular.

So the 192 network is not all allocated to privates address only 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys,

I havent received a message from the host yet.

I tried using the web based net2FTP.com, and I was able to log in. It tool a long time, like 2 minutes to complete the login, that site is slow I guess.

As for the path (traceroute) to that site, it was very similar to the one going to my webspace, up to the point where it leaves the USA.
After a NYC hop, it then goes to servers with the .de extension.
Usually it goes from the USA directly to UK servers.

So now, what does this tell me? 
Does it mean that the two way data is ok in the USA> thus eliminating my ISP and the route up tp the point where it goes overseas?


The workaround may be slow, and I'd still like to find out whatthe heck is going on, narrowing down the problem spot.Plus I don't like to log in with passwords on a 3d party site.

Thanks, Gary.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Have you tried loggin in via the other site. If both or slow or give you problems then try these, there not clients and are more for testing but just to see what the performance is like:

http://www.g6ftpserver.com/en/ftptest
http://www.wormly.com/test_ftp_server

Also have you tried one of those free VPNs as a possible more secure work around, the traffic would be routed different so if you could login via them it would be something.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
Page 12 on TechGUy does not allow me to login to post a meaasge.It says I logged in but redirects me to the login screen again.

Anyhow, I did try both of the first sites. The one gave me an error and would not connect, the other was very slow.

I will have to investigate the virtual network, but I was hoping I would not have to Mickey Mouse a setup just to go to my webspace.

I will try the other two sies and see what happens.
Thanks, Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hey guys,
Still trying to figure this out. I was using the remote, web based FTP thing, and it is too slow, only one of the sites work.
Are there any other web based FTP workaround sites out there? I tried a search and did not find the same type of remote FTP clients.

It gets me a little PO'd at the ISP and the host that no one accepts responsibility.
"Yeah, you can access the webspace, so it is not us".

The virtual network is probably not an option. To much installing configuring, etc. I want to use a simple folder view FTP through IE6.

I am going to send another message to the host, not sure what I will suggest or ask. Maybe change my account to a different server? Maybe ask for an error log where my IP shows up?
Maybe just ask for a new account (same pass and site name) somehow it might get out of the rut of connection errors that are occuring.

Will keep you informed 

Gary


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Both of those sites are pretty fast for me, the only others I'm aware of are.

http://www.upsdn.net/projects/webftp/ or http://www.webftp.sk/

My main focus in trying to test a VPN was to see if we could narrow down the problem further. http://hotspotshield.com/ is straightforward, even if you don't use it but just test with it; If IE FTP works when using it then it gives more evidence and perhaps a clearer indication of the problem. Use http://whatismyip.com/ before and after to test you are connected

It could be either but I'm leaning towards your ISP. FTP server logs might be handy.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

I'm currently typing this from the Knoppix Live CD, so no interference from anything Windows. With both KBear and gFTP, I get, guess what?, the 425 error. So, it's not Windows, or any firewall, since there is none in use at present. But, my connection through Knoppix is still PPPOE, with the complications that that entails, with 2 IP addresses, etc.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

I've also tried connecting from a:

Standard Cable line
PPPoA ADSL line
Dedicated hosting server

All work okay and I get prompted for the username/password each time, thats why I was leaning towards the ISP. It could be a problem on both sides but the ISP seems most likely.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys,

As you are trying to connect in a different destination than I am, the login would probably work. Your path along the internet is differnet than mine.

My ISP again told me that somewhere along this 'route' the connection is terminated. The suggestion about me trying to connect to each hop was not a good one.

I wish there was someone who knew what they were doing over there, the ISP should be able to instantly find where a problem is. I should not have to do the legwork, to find their problem. But as long as I can get to the internet, and get a webpage, they don't really care.

Now just a minute ago, I did another tracert. the path for the first 4 or so hops were the same, as well as the last 2 or three hops.

The middle hops were all different.

Using the VPN, I don't know much about that, does this allow you to go directly to my destination IP address? They talk about a "tunnel".

Calling the ISP again later today, eventually, I might get someone who actually tries to help.

Thanks,
Gary.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

The tech support at your ISP at most ISPs needs to be shot, especially the guy who gave you that connect to every hop advice.

My point in trying so many connection with different configurations is trying to prove its more likely a problem with the ISP but the FTP server side logs would be handy, some hosting companies let you get those yourself with having to ask them.

The hops will change a lot of the time as it'll take what it determines to be the shortest or most efficent path based on the metric of whatever routing protocol each hop is using.

The VPN will basically sit on top of your existing connection and route traffic in a different way that http://hotspotshield.com/ is probably the easiest but it just routes web traffic so when connected you'll have to check with FTP in IE.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
When trying to install the VPN you suggested, I received a lot of "HIgh Risk" messages from my AV, about this program connecting to a DNS server, or "the program is attempting to connect to" ...whatever. I stopped the process.

What benefit am I getting in using the VPN, as what I have read, it's only supposed to keep hackers out of your pathway and keep them from interecepting your data.

Wouldn't the path to my webspace be the same ?

I read briefly, there is a VPN option in Win XP?

Doesn't the destination server need to also be a VPN server?

Thanks.


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Those warnings are normal, well normal in that there nothing to worry about though your security software is perhaps a bit over zealous but its better to be safe than sorry I suppose.

To be glib the VPN will tunnel the traffic somewhere else (just the web traffic in the case of this particular application) so we're taking your ISPs route to the internet and using it to build our own in the form of the VPN.

I'd like you to just use it once or twice just to see if when using it you can connect the way you use to via IE FTP, it might to take a few minutes for the VPN to get up and running. Use that ISP website if your not sure.

On a side note and based on Elvandils testing; the fact that he got the same error message your hosting company may be to blame also. I'm tend to always blame the ISP but its probably faults on both sides contributing to the problem.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Thanks for the info, Elvandil. So, we've got two different people with PPPoE connections having problems connecting to the FTP server. I'm going to my mom's house in a few and will use her DSL connection to see what happens. At home, I have cable modem Internet access.

EDIT: I was able to connect to the FTP site using Windows command line FTP just fine. The connection was made via my mom's DSL Internet connection. 

Peace...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

tomdkat said:


> Thanks for the info, Elvandil. So, we've got two different people with PPPoE connections having problems connecting to the FTP server. I'm going to my mom's house in a few and will use her DSL connection to see what happens. At home, I have cable modem Internet access.
> 
> EDIT: I was able to connect to the FTP site using Windows command line FTP just fine. The connection was made via my mom's DSL Internet connection.
> 
> Peace...


Interesting. But I still think the PPPOE has something to do with it (though clearly not all such connections). I would like to know what server software they are using. WS_FTP server (the worst of them all, at least according to some), in particular, has known problems with PPPOE, NAT, and some other protocol differences that are minor for most other server software. I actually found some new FTP commands that I never saw before that are supposed to be a workaround to this problem, but, of course, only the best FTP server software supports the commands and they are not the problem in the first place.

But, I still haven't forgotten you, Gary .


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Thanks my friends for that 

I will try the VPN install again and see what happens.

Going to ask the host what all they are running there, and some other questions.

Today I ran two FTP server tests, here is the results.
First site results:

Resolving hostname...
Starting FTP Test...
* About to connect() to ftp.xxxxxxxxxxx.com port 21 (#0)
* Trying 213.171.xxx.5... * connected
* Connected to ftp.xxxxxxxxxxxx.com (213.171.xxx.5) port 21 (#0)
< 220-Matrix FTP server ready.
< 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
< 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
< 220 Please note: files for your website must be stored under the htdocs directory.
> USER XXXXXXXXXXXXX
< 331 User XXXXXXXXXXXXX OK. Password required
> PASS XXXXXXXXXXX
< 230 OK. Current directory is /
> PWD
< 257 "/" is your current location
* Entry path is '/'
> EPSV
* Connect data stream passively
< 500 Unknown command
* disabling EPSV usage
> PASV
< 227 Entering Passive Mode (213,171,xxx,5,228,96)
* Trying 213.171.xxx.5... * connected
* Connecting to 213.171.xxx.5 (213.171.xxx.5) port 58464
> TYPE A
< 200 TYPE is now ASCII
> LIST
< 150 Accepted data connection
* Maxdownload = -1
* Remembering we are in dir ""
< 226-Options: -a -l 
< 226 3 matches total
* Connection #0 to host ftp.xxxxxxxxx.com left intact
> QUIT
< 221-Goodbye. You uploaded 0 and downloaded 0 kbytes.
< 221 Logout.
* Closing connection #0
FTP Test completed.

Second test site:

* About to connect() to ftp.xxxxxxxxxxx.com port 21
* Trying 213.171.xxx.5... connected
* Connected to ftp.xxxxxxxxxx(213.171.xxx.5) port 21
< 220-Matrix FTP server ready. 
< 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 
< 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 
< 220 Please note: files for your website must be stored under the htdocs directory.

> USER xxxxxxxxx
< 331 User xxxxxxxxxxxx OK. Password required

> PASS *****
< 230 OK. Current directory is /

> PWD 
< 257 "/" is your current location 
* Entry path is '/'

> CLNT Testing from http://www.g6ftpserver.com/ftptest from IP xx.xxx.xxx.xxx 
< 500 Unknown command 
* QUOT command failed with 500
* Connection #0 to host ftp.xxxxxxxxxxx.com left intact

* Closing connection #0

Not sure if that helps or not, WIll be back tomorrow, Take care.
Gary


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

OK,
Just installed the VPN, it connected. I was not able to access my webspace. Same login box, but would not accept.

I assume that you use the address bar in the same browser as the VPS is showing connected. 
I tried the ISP webspace, and another FTP site, those both worked.

Probably going to uninstall the VPN program. I had to download another version of it. However the first version had a newer version number than the second one. Odd.


Gary.


----------



## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

http://www.matrixserver.us/billing/knowledgebase.php

Funny that their KB is under "billing".


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi Elvandil.

What was this link supposed to show. All I got was info about a webhosting site. Maybe it's a hint to use another host??


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

That link doesn't show what I thought it did.

But I did just have an interesting thing happen. I decided to try some other FTP clients, especially after discovering that FTP may not be so old and unchanged as I had thought. Upon discovering that nearly every FTP server has its own "custom commands", I decided to use the deeply scientific method of choosing an FTP client with a large installer, assuming that large meant "more features".

When I tried to connect with Smart FTP, I got a popup for username and password. None of the others have given me that. The log window may not be as complete with this one, but no 425 appeared, anyway.

I closed that out and saw the file tree for the site in the left column. When I clicked the + sign to open the tree, I got another password prompt. Not sure whether this meant that it was connected normally or what, but even that was encouraging.

Of course, they just started charging for the client. A trial is here:

http://www.smartftp.com/

FileHippo appears to have older versions (possibly from before when it was still freeware):

http://www.filehippo.com/download_smartftp/

Worth a try, I guess. This from one user:

"Unfortunately BlazeFTP doesn't seem to be compatible with one of the FTP servers I need to connect to!"

(I still think that the problem lies with the server not being able to connect to the right IP. When I tried BulletProof client, it had a separate program called "IP Watcher". I suppose that it is for people whose IP's change a lot. But it gave me 2 addresses: my normal IP and another called "Remote IP". But it wasn't the IP for the site--it was still an IP used by my ISP and one I had not seen with any other apps. So, I thought that just maybe there was yet another IP address involved in all this. That led me to trying the more complex clients.)


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Great info, Elvandil! :up: I'm wondering if SmartFTP was able to detect the particular FTP server in question and "deal" with it appropriately. This doesn't explain why command line FTP works for me on Windows and Linux using Comcast (cable) and AT&T (DSL) Internet connections but if it works for you, it should work for Gary.

Thanks for the update! :up:

Peace...


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Any luck with FileZilla, its odd sure they can implement there own commands but the base client would have to conform to the RFC.

The two IPs may be some sort of peer IP addressing, odd that they'd use that for non-static addresses though, could also be the gateway router I suppose.

I've been prompted with all the connections I've tried though I've only had access to PPPoA DSL connections. I'm entirely willing to blame the host but in my experience its usually the ISP. I forget do Elvandil and gary rabbit have use the same provider or do the providers use a common upstream.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Kirok said:


> Any luck with FileZilla, its odd sure they can implement there own commands but the base client would have to conform to the RFC.
> 
> The two IPs may be some sort of peer IP addressing, odd that they'd use that for non-static addresses though, could also be the gateway router I suppose.
> 
> I've been prompted with all the connections I've tried though I've only had access to PPPoA DSL connections. I'm entirely willing to blame the host but in my experience its usually the ISP. I forget do Elvandil and gary rabbit have use the same provider or do the providers use a common upstream.


That's the strange part--different providers and different parts of the country.

"but the base client would have to conform to the RFC"

We would hope. Unfortunately, there is no way to know how far complianace goes.


----------



## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

tomdkat said:


> Great info, Elvandil! :up: I'm wondering if SmartFTP was able to detect the particular FTP server in question and "deal" with it appropriately. This doesn't explain why command line FTP works for me on Windows and Linux using Comcast (cable) and AT&T (DSL) Internet connections but if it works for you, it should work for Gary.
> 
> Thanks for the update! :up:
> 
> Peace...


I'd certainly like Gary to try it. It may be a fluke--that SmartFTP just asks for the password before it is requested by the server. But I don't think so since I selected an anonymous login, so SmartFTP would have no way of "knowing" that the site even required a password ahead of time.

I'm getting to the point where like some cures for diseases, I care less about the cause of the disease so long as it just goes away.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Elvandil said:


> That's the strange part--different providers and different parts of the country.
> 
> "but the base client would have to conform to the RFC"


Precisely, different ISPs are involved and the only "constant" throughout all this has been the FTP server. I'm thinking the website host is simply using a broken or quirky FTP server. Also, we don't know if the FTP server properly conforms to the FTP RFC.



Elvandil said:


> I'd certainly like Gary to try it. It may be a fluke--that SmartFTP just asks for the password before it is requested by the server. But I don't think so since I selected an anonymous login, so SmartFTP would have no way of "knowing" that the site even required a password ahead of time.


It certainly could be a fluke but the fact you got some kind of directory listing _before_ you actually logged in tells me SmartFTP *might* be interacting with the FTP server in a non-standard way. I know various OSes can leave a "fingerprint" in pong replies (a "pong" is a reply to a "ping") and this "fingerprint" can be used to identify the remote OS. I'm wondering if SmartFTP has done something similar in it's communication with the remote FTP server. It was able to determine the remote FTP server didn't implement the FTP RFC correct and was able to react accordingly. Of course, I'm just guessing here.

Peace...


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I was still reading the post, I was quiet thinking if I should continue to post on the forum. Anyway to go back to your trouble, I have read that you did somes traceroute to your server and that somes addresses changes in the middle of it and that on every try you did or am I wrong.
I would like to explain what I think of your problem.
First
I did a traceroute to the server and I beleive that you have to go thru a FIREWALL from the FTP server provider. I will include the screen output below. But I think that the FW might be the cause of your problems. To be sure an output of the traceroute you did and a trace from the FTP server could confirm suspicions.
Here is why, if you look at the traceroute I did, you will see at line 16 "three * and Request time out" this is normally a firewall or a router setup not to respond to ICMP echo request "ping in short" also because the two adresses after it are in the same range, so I presume they belong to the same organisation/provider. Now if the traceroute you did had the changing addresses right before the line with the * (if you have one in youre traceroute), well this is where the problem is occuring.
Let me explain. The change of address means to me that you have two possibles routes via two differents routers. If you try to setup a connection thru one of the router (you dont choose that) and suddently a packet is received thru the other router, the FW can reject the packet and send a reply to close the connection or just a error message. As mention the only think that will prove that, are communications traces.
So I think youre troble started after an upgrade/modification in the FIREWALL of the FTP server provider.. I have seen Checkpoint FW dont like a connection from different router and they normally discard the packets but also I have seen Gantlet FW that only reported an error in the log and let the connection thru from differents sources
Trying to use VPN through whatever service to me is futile, first the VPN is only valid to them plus you have to provide them your user name and password and they establish a clear connection to the FTP server, they are a MAN in the MIDDLE to me. And if it is free can you rely on them????? If you want to use a VPN it should be done directly with the provider of your FTP service. VPN only encrypt dat over the connection they dont fix routing problems.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

HI fellas.

Quote
"I'm getting to the point where like some cures for diseases, I care less about the cause of the disease so long as it just goes away. "

I hear ya bro.....

Some good reading here.
Kirok, yes I have tried FileZilla already, same results.

Elvandil, I installed Smart FTP and I get the 425 error, just like I did with some other FTP clients.
I was able to fill in the usernames and passwords etc. before trying to connect.
Connecting, I get where it says I connect, then the connec closes. Her is the log:

[19:35:30] SmartFTP v3.0.1022.18
[19:35:31] Resolving host name "ftp.xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com"
[19:35:31] Connecting to 213.xxx.xxx.5 Port: 21
[19:35:31] Connected to ftp.xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com.
[19:35:33] 425 Sorry, invalid address given
[19:35:33] Server closed connection
[19:35:33] Connect failed. Waiting to retry (30s)...
[19:36:03] Connection attempt 2...

As far as I know myIP address does not change.

Tanguay, the VPN was worth a try but Ididn't see anything happening different than just using IE6 by itself.

I am trying to understand about your log where line 16 shows the timeout. I never got any timeouts in my logs.

As soon as I get off the forum tonight, I will attach the link to this thread again to my server host.

I have a relative that is into file recovery, forensics for the state of California, and he is going to run this issue past his engineers where he works.

I will keep an eye on the thread tonight amd tomorrow
Take care and and THANKS so much.
Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Here is a last minute tracert to the webspace.
Now, you mentioned I need a tracert from the host to me? If so, I will ask for that.
Gary.

Tracing route to ftp.xxxxxxxxxx.com [213.xxx.xxx.5]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 6 ms 12 ms 10.224.128.1
3 13 ms 11 ms 12 ms 24-159-70-56.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com [24.159.70
.56]
4 17 ms 19 ms 17 ms 172.21.28.236
5 16 ms 21 ms 17 ms 24-159-70-13.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com [24.159.70
.13]
6 28 ms 48 ms 30 ms so-7-1-0.edge2.Atlanta2.Level3.net [4.71.194.17]

7 35 ms 36 ms 35 ms ae-71-52.ebr1.Atlanta2.Level3.net [4.68.103.60]

8 * 46 ms 39 ms ae-2.ebr1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.132.86]
9 42 ms 47 ms 42 ms ae-2.ebr1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.132.86]
10 47 ms 53 ms 39 ms ae-61-61.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.134.1
30]
11 42 ms 50 ms 41 ms ae-62-62.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.134.1
45]
12 122 ms 145 ms 143 ms ae-2.ebr1.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.132.142]
13 134 ms 150 ms 143 ms ae-2.ebr1.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.132.142]
14 133 ms 134 ms 135 ms ae-1-55.edge4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.68.118.14
7]
15 140 ms 140 ms 141 ms te-1-1.bb-c.nkf.ams.nl.oneandone.net [212.227.12
0.129]
16 150 ms 137 ms 146 ms te-1-2.bb-c.the.lon.gb.oneandone.net [212.227.12
0.134]
17 134 ms 135 ms 146 ms te-1-2.bb-c.the.lon.gb.oneandone.net [212.227.12
0.134]
18 149 ms 136 ms 135 ms 88.208.255.61
19 138 ms 135 ms 138 ms pc2.prt0.fhdis.fasthosts.net.uk [88.208.255.1]
20 144 ms 138 ms 135 ms 213.171.217.3
21 137 ms 135 ms 140 ms server213-xxx-xxx-5.livedns.org.uk [213.171.193.
5]

Trace complete.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

@tanguay: if it was a firewall on the FTP server side, why doesn't everyone get the 425 error? Unless the firewall is dealing with some apparent "problem" IP address or address in "problem" subnets, perhaps?

Peace...


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

No I dont need a trace route from the host to you but it cannot hurt to have one.

I did more checking after I replied and i see that thing have changed I dont know if they are the result of all the test you did with VPN and FTP but it is confusing the issue a little more to say the least.

Now if I do an NSLOOKUP on the name of your Ftp server I get a different address; if I use the address of your Ftp server for a reverse lookup it does not resolve. 
If i try to connect to it with the server name I do not get an answer and if I try with the address, I still get the server prompt to login.

Are you subscribing to a Dynamic DNS service?

But looking at your tracert is perplexing you seem to go twice thru the same machine and this a couple of time, but this is not an issue just a comment. Do you always have the same result from a tracert, I thought that you mentionned in a previous message that somes addresses changed in your tracert???


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Its late here and I'm too lazy to post a full reply. I thought I'd say this though as I see so many people in general misreading traceroutes.

So a bit on them:

The node initiating the traceroute sends a UDP packet with a high destination port and a TTL of 1 with the requested destination IP address after doing a DNS lookup if needed. The router at the first hop decrements the TTL, sees that it is 0, responds to the source IP with an ICMP TTL Exceeded packet and discards the UDP packet it was sent. This process is repeated three times, giving the three figures per hop. The initiating machine repeats the above steps, increasing initial TTL and UDP destination port number until either the destination IP responds, or the configured maximum number of hops is reached, or the user interrupts the process.

*So basically timeouts aren't a problem unless you get a few of them in a row and never reach the intended destination. What a timeout is most likely to mean is that ICMP echo packets are not allowed by the hop the data still passes through.*

Now what the general consensus seems to be at this point is that its a problem with passive mode and NAT passthrough.

* We've already tried turning PASV mode on and off.
* We've tried to eliminate the local connection as much as possible ignoring

So the next stage seems to be to find to find an FTP client that will allow us to use the IP address the server is seeing as a response to the PASV request, I'm not aware of any for Windows at the moment.

There a few things that could be done at server level but I imagine its unlikely the host will do anything.

Any thoughts on this or other ideas?

EDIT: Incidentally just did some DNS tests of my own and they look good at my end anyway.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Just for fun; has we used to say at work
To solve the problem we will have to change from "EDUCATED GUESS WORK"
to "PRECISION GUESS WORK"

Just a joke.


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

tomdkat said:


> @tanguay: if it was a firewall on the FTP server side, why doesn't everyone get the 425 error? Unless the firewall is dealing with some apparent "problem" IP address or address in "problem" subnets, perhaps?
> 
> Peace...


Because; if you are using only one route to get to it you are passing thu the FW the normal way, and everything is fine. Because FW have a connection table for the traffic thru them.
And between a FW and a router int the table it must contain the source IP with also the MAC of the router and the destination Ip with the MAC of the router. Now if you change the MAC in the middle of the connection this could be seen by the FW as a "man in the middle" attack, therefore it will react to it. This is a reason why FW exist to prvent attack.

Like I said this is an "educated guess", Firewall are not my speciality and I have seen all kind of behavior with them rnging from no reaction to over reaction.


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Kirok said:


> Its late here and I'm too lazy to post a full reply. I thought I'd say this though as I see so many people in general misreading traceroutes.
> 
> So a bit on them:
> 
> ...


To help you cure my ""misreading traceroutes." I will try to explain and correct the errors in your descriptions to the best of my knowledge
First there is no UDP and port. To do a trace route, a machine send an ICMP packet type 8 actually an echo request packet for short a Ping, by the way ICMP is protocol 0x01 and UDP is protocol 0x11. This ping is send with a TTL=1 (correct in your reply). Then the default gateway forward the packet along the path after decreasing the TTL by one which make it 0 (zero) , the first router to receive the packet has to discard it and it return an ICMP error message type 11 to the source of the packet. On reception of the error message packet packet the machine send a DNS request containing the address of the replying router to try to get is NAME, if it does not it only display the address.(Second part correct but they are needed to get the address) After the first packet, the source send a second ping with a TTL=2 and this continue to normally a maximum of 30 and ther is option in the traceroute command to change the maximum TTL and also other things..
This process continue until the destination is reach, giving the output that contain the path of the connection which should be the same for both direction but not surely. But this is another story.
The reason why there is three try per line in a traceroute is because sometimes ping are lost along the ways, how would you make the difference between a not responding router/fw and a lost ping. So if you see three * on the same line in a tracert it can be assume that it is a firewall or a router not configure to reply to ICMP echo; and normally an FW does not reply to ping and a router does. Also the trick with traceroute is to do more than one to see if the results are identicals. Would like me to explain why we have TTL values.


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

I made a little mistake in my previous message in the following line:
.(Second part correct but they are needed to get the address)
It should read as:
.(Second part correct but they are needed to try to find the associated with the address)
It's call a reverse lookup


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

S... another mistake
(Second part correct but they are needed to try to find the associated with the address)
(Second part correct but they are needed to try to find the Name associated with the address)
Sorry


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

tanguay said:


> Because; if you are using only one route to get to it you are passing thu the FW the normal way, and everything is fine. Because FW have a connection table for the traffic thru them.
> And between a FW and a router int the table it must contain the source IP with also the MAC of the router and the destination Ip with the MAC of the router. Now if you change the MAC in the middle of the connection this could be seen by the FW as a "man in the middle" attack, therefore it will react to it. This is a reason why FW exist to prvent attack.


I understand but the inconsistency of the behavior across different machines using different ISPs makes it hard to accept this kind of explanation. I'm not saying you're wrong since I don' t know what's going on either but we've got two different people using two different ISPs having the problem and at least two other different people using two other ISPs not having the problem.

Peace...


----------



## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

I disagree with how you think trace route works, from the looks of it your source if out of date there are in fact multiple implementations of trace route UDP being the most popular currently. Thats beside the point however I don't want this thread to degenerate into an arguing match.

Also I'm inclined to go with tomdkat though it may be a firewall issue in terms of NAT transversal issues like I was saying


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

Kirok said:


> I disagree with how you think trace route works, from the looks of it your source if out of date there are in fact multiple implementations of trace route UDP being the most popular currently. Thats beside the point however I don't want this thread to degenerate into an arguing match.
> 
> Also I'm inclined to go with tomdkat though it may be a firewall issue in terms of NAT transversal issues like I was saying


For trace route, I have explain the way a Windows machine does it. Unix type machines could do it differently.


----------



## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

tomdkat said:


> I understand but the inconsistency of the behavior across different machines using different ISPs makes it hard to accept this kind of explanation. I'm not saying you're wrong since I don' t know what's going on either but we've got two different people using two different ISPs having the problem and at least two other different people using two other ISPs not having the problem.
> 
> Peace...


I am not says that my explaination is the only good one, the problem here is a lack of pertinent information, what I mean by that is that we have a comm trace done at the client but no trace at the server, but the trace at the client does show that the response we get is not correct. In a connection there is many things involved, first the client, second the server and all the in between routers/switches/Fw/etc... 
From the trace and the ways the problem is describe, we can conclude without much doubt that the client side is not the source of this problem, Is home router is not showing any thing special, he can access the Internet, other ftp server, etc.
If we look at the server, we have less info about it. It must be used by other users I would be surprised it is only used by Mr Rabbitt (????) If I try to connect to it, it seems ok, I am ask to enter user and password as expected. So I would say that the server is ok.
Finally from the trace I now and saw that the client sent a SYN, received a SIN-ACK, sent in reply an ACK (this is the completion of an tcp connection, called a three-way handshake) without requesting anything the client receive an error packet containing the 425 error, with "invalid address given". This reply come from what I refer to as an ACTIVE machine. Most router are consider passive machine normally they dont examine the packet in detail, they only forward it to the next hop after doing little modifications to the packet (changes to the destination and source MAC address), also most of the router are in the Internet and for us the internet is a big CLOUD where you go in and should end at the destination without change to the data packet, but when you go in the cloud or get out of it there is most of the time an active machine like a Firewall or Proxy and theses machine can changed a packet, they examine it in detail an can refuse it, discard it, reply to it, etc. So I think that the 425 error message come from such a machine located at the remote end. The reason for a trace from the server to really see what he receive and send back. The home router is an active machine (it is a FW and it does PAT) but it look like it is performing correcly or he would have problems getting to the Internet.
Hope I did not confuse thing.


----------



## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

We need to get off the trace route stuff, its a good troubleshooting tool but in this instance I believe its leading us down the wrong path.

Expanding on my post (http://forums.techguy.org/6108188-post193.html) The 425 error - though different clients use different expanded messages is to do with creating the data connection, FTP having a control connection and a data connection.

Ignoring the login and control stuff what happens on a normal connection is:

* The client tells the server it wants to go into passive mode (PASV command)
* When the server gets this it replies with the IP and port(s) to use (227 messages)
* The server then starts listening on these for a connection
* Data is sent all this

Thats on a connection not using NAT, with NAT it spies-on and intercepts the commands so it listens for the server to reply to PASV command then replaces the information with its own. Essentially telling the server/client to open a connection to it. Then when NAT receives a connection from either end it will forward it.

My current thinking is that its dodgy NAT, not sure which side perhaps a bit of both. The next thing I'd like to try is in my previous post but like I said what does everyone else think.


----------



## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Kirok said:


> So the next stage seems to be to find to find an FTP client that will allow us to use the IP address the server is seeing as a response to the PASV request, I'm not aware of any for Windows at the moment.


The thing is, I believe the 425 gets issued before the client gets to the point of going into passive mode. We're still trying to get the welcome message from the FTP server when the 425 error is issued.



> There a few things that could be done at server level but I imagine its unlikely the host will do anything.


I want the FTP server admin to enable verbose debug message logging in the FTP server and send Gary the raw FTP server message log so we can see what the server is doing. This should capture the addresses the server is dealing with and that should tell us a lot. You're right, however, in that the FTP server admin will probably NOT be willing to do this.

Gary, is it possible for you to find new website hosting?

Peace...


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

tomdkat said:


> The thing is, I believe the 425 gets issued before the client gets to the point of going into passive mode. We're still trying to get the welcome message from the FTP server when the 425 error is issued.
> 
> I want the FTP server admin to enable verbose debug message logging in the FTP server and send Gary the raw FTP server message log so we can see what the server is doing. This should capture the addresses the server is dealing with and that should tell us a lot. You're right, however, in that the FTP server admin will probably NOT be willing to do this.
> 
> ...


Tom, I am going to ask the host if he would read the last couple of pages here, and if the log for errors (on my IP address only) would be possible.

I can email a log instead of posting it here on the public site if the host wants to go ahead and let a couple of us look at the logs.

Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

gary rabbitt said:


> Tom, I am going to ask the host if he would read the last couple of pages here, and if the log for errors (on my IP address only) would be possible.
> 
> I can email a log instead of posting it here on the public site if the host wants to go ahead and let a couple of us look at the logs.


Fair enough. Since Elvandil encounters the problem, as you are, maybe he should get a copy of the log. I won't have time to look at a log myself so someone else participating in this would be willing to look at the log as well.

Peace...


----------



## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Yeah the logs would be great, depending on the hosting company (is it fasthosts?) you may already have access to them.

*EDIT:* Seems theres another guy having similar problems on the same server.

http://www.smartftp.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15106&pid=49204&st=0


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Kirok said:


> Yeah the logs would be great, depending on the hosting company (is it fasthosts?) you may already have access to them.


Hopefully, the default logging options in the FTP server would contain the relevant info.



> *EDIT:* Seems theres another guy having similar problems on the same server.
> 
> http://www.smartftp.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15106&pid=49204&st=0


Great find! :up:

Peace...


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## tanguay (Aug 3, 2008)

can someone explain to me wath is the meaning of "Dodgy NAT" I have see the term use e fews times in this post and I have search the web and saw many foruma where it used. But I did a search at Cisco.com and I did not find any thing there. That term is unknow to me. 
Thanks


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

dodgy: Unsound, unstable, and unreliable.

Peace...


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## Kirok (Apr 22, 2006)

Sorry bit conversational and perhaps regional but I only used it once. I was saying that NAT is probably broken or acting weird.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Kirok said:


> Yeah the logs would be great, depending on the hosting company (is it fasthosts?) you may already have access to them.
> 
> *EDIT:* Seems theres another guy having similar problems on the same server.
> 
> http://www.smartftp.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15106&pid=49204&st=0


Yes the final destination is fasthosts.
I messaged the other post you found, perhaps someone will know the issue and has already solved it.
As for the logs being available, there is a folder that has logs in it, but I thought that was others that were accessing your pages.

Will talk to you all later,
Gary.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi guys,
Well, I am back to square one.
My host changed the webspsce to a different server and IP address. I still have the same issue.
The host has read these forums to see what all we have tried.
He did ask if I used a hosts service. I have found the HOST file but only one entry is listed. the local host at 127.0.0.1 
No other entries.

Can the host file make it possible to allow my webspace to come thru? I think this file is to redirect unwanted sites.


I can access thru the net2FTP workaround site. However it takes about 2 min to get to the site and to make a transfer of a file.

So here I am again, I will probably let the service expire. then look for another host. I really don't want to do that, but there may be no other way.

Gary.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Gary,

Given you CAN connect to other FTP servers, like the GNU FTP server, without problems I'm still thinking the issue is with the FTP server of the current host. If they use the same FTP server on a different server and you're STILL having problems, that tells me the FTP server is a likely culprit. Maybe if they used a *different* FTP server I would think differently based on the results. If they used ProFTPd or vsftpd, we could better determine if their FTP server was actually the culprit or not.

Thanks for the update. 

Peace...


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## xmyo (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi,

I am experiencing the same problem and have logged the call with Fasthosts. They are aware of this as a growing issue. They claim they are unable to replicate it but the support chap did advie that the 'commonality' between the support calls is that they are BT customers. 

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a 'blame game'. It must be an ISP problem.

Hope this helps.


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## xmyo (Oct 7, 2008)

Fasthosts deny any issue. hmmm


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
Sorry to hear that you are having issues the same.
I am still using the net2FTP workaround online FTP client.
I will probably have to use another service when the fasthosts expires in Febuary.

The workaround is ok, I still have the webspace available, but still cannot connect from this location.

I use this, give it a try:
http://www.net2ftp.com/

I seriously don't think it is an ISP issue.
ALL other FTP sites work fine. Just the Fasthost one is not working.

My host said he would get back to me if his guys found something. I am not sure if he is a seperate business using Fasthoss, or if he works for fasthost himself.
I think I will fire off a letter to them, and a link to this page.

I am sure you have read the entire 15 pages  Remember, I can go to the local library and connect with my same ISP who serves the library and connect. Just not from here on this or any other copmputers in the house.

Thanks for the post, at least I know I am not alone. These guys here have really tried to help me out and I appreciate it.
BTW, what is "a BT customer?

"the support calls is that they are BT customers. "

What ISP do you use, and where are you located, just curious.

If I find something out from fasthosts I will let you know.
Take care,
Gary.


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## xmyo (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks for getting back to me. Unfotunately Fasthosts have now closed my ticket as they cannot replicate the issue. They advise that is must be my network problem but, like you, I can access any other ftp and can access the ftp from other sites.

I am located in UK. BT is the (major) isp in uk. 1 fasthost person said they had other reports of a similar issue but their 'closing' email does not support that.

I know there was another similar thread. Has anyone else had this problem?


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I heard ther was another person who had a similar issue, but it was not with fasthosts.
I posted on a couiple of other so called tech help sites with no responses.

I wonder how a person can make sure they are blaming the right person. The ISP or the host. I have tried sniffers, but don't know really how to interpret their data.

As you have seen, I can connect, as the server replies, but then it doesn;t get a third part of the connection , sets the 425 error.

My host had even set up a second "test account" and it did the same thing. He last reset my webspace completely, but had the same errors.

I personally have a "gut" feeling it is the host and their servers. But then again, it may be a combination of this particular location from my ISP, and the host.
I can go to my daughter's house and connect (different ISP) and get the correct Folder View.
My ISP says they do not block anything.

Oh well, some 12 year old could probably figure this out if they had the tools and acess to this connection. It is beyond me and we have tied just about everything.

Take care,
Gary.

PS, The only service I have is webspace, and I don't have any email accounts (that I know of) or any added services. The person I deal with originally had webspace as a prize on another site. I won, and after the free year term was up, I started paying to keep the webspace. I think I had been with him for about 4 years now.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

But then we have me. I have a different ISP and still get the 425. I would think that aside from some possible intervening routers, all we have in common is the host.

I use FTP quite regularly. I connect to some 75 different hosts (not my own) that I have discovered over the years have caches of files I want or can't find elsewhere. I connect to the FTP sites of many universities to get files and operating systems, both in Europe and the US. I have never seen the 425 error before this situation arose.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hey there Elvandil,

I have just about givin up pon trying to persue this any further. I have not heard back from my host's tech team. I do use the net2FTP workaround to upload stuff, but it's not as easy as the IE folder view.

I may make a complaint to Fasthosts tech dept directly. I don't know exactly how I am signed up. I go thru a gentleman who worked for Icarus Solutions, (where my original webspace was at when I won the prize of a year's hosting) and this year, the service changed to Fasthosts. I don't have any other services, only the webspace.

You ar right, there are many FTP sites out there with all kinds of info on them., I wish there was a directory as to what all is out there, or how to search for an FTP based information database.
Well take care , and have a great weekend coming up.
Sincerely,
Gary.


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## Oskardog (Oct 19, 2008)

Having read all the previous posts with great interest and tried most of the actions I have to say I have exactly the same problem and have had for several weeks now.

My ISP is Pipex Business and I run three websites. The latest is Pipex Webspace which I set up for test purposes. The other two are hosted by Fasthosts and Web-Hosting Plus. Both use ftp site 213.171.193.5. Occasionally I can connect using one of my many ftp clients but most of the time I cannot.

If I telnet 213.171.193.5 21 I get the dreaded 425 Sorry, invalid address given Connection to host lost. However I can connect to my Pipex Webspace ftp and any anonymous ftps.

Pipex, Fasthosts and Webspace Hosting Plus have all been helpful but no solution has been forthcoming. I can go to the local pub with my laptop and login to all ftps OK and I can reach them through net2ftp but that is slow and cumbersome.

A few days ago Pipex gave me this advice:

I haven't had an issue connecting to these servers. * My only suggestion now is to contact liveDNS to see if they have refreshed their zone file on your domains recently*. The Whois doesn't indicate anything more really. I think this issue is localised as it happens with both. The only two things in common are LiveDNS and your FTP client. 

salisburycivicsociety.org.uk

Registrar:
TUCOWS Inc [Tag = TUCOWS-CA]
URL: http://www.opensrs.org

Name servers:
ns1.livedns.co.uk
ns2.livedns.co.uk

ajmc.me.uk

Registrar:
Fasthosts Internet Ltd [Tag = FASTHOSTS]
URL: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk

Name servers:
ns1.livedns.co.uk
ns2.livedns.co.uk

I am not sure how I would go about contacting liveDNS but this seems to be the only stone left unturned. There must be a solution! Any help most welcome.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

LiveDNS.co.uk

Registrar:
Fasthosts Internet Ltd [Tag = FASTHOSTS}
URL: http://www.fasthosts.co.uk

Registrant's address:
154 Southgate Street
Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Gloucester
Gloucestershire
GL1 2EX
GB

person: Mark Wood
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Suite 7, Discovery Court
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX

person: George Daly
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Discovery House
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX


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## Oskardog (Oct 19, 2008)

Many thanks for responding. As I write this I am able to connect OK to both my private ftp's. Mysterious! I shall await developments.


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## Oskardog (Oct 19, 2008)

Today they have gone again! 425 rears its ugly head once more. Surely there must be some more people with this problem - everything else on my PC and laptop works fine.

Help!!!


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
Well sorry to hear you are still having issues.

Last night, just for fun, I tried to log in to my webspace. My jaw dropped to the floor, I was able to successfully log in! The last time I tried was about 3 days ago.

Now, I can't say what happened, [erhaps the host found soething? Maybe somewhere along the path, or the server itself was reset or someone changed a configuration, who knows.

I just hope it stays that way.

Iam currently in a computer class offered thru my former employer. The instructor is a current Microsoft Engineer. rated at 29th in the country for instructors by MS. Anyhow, after class we spole about this issue, and with all the things we have tried here, he strongly suspects it is on the server side. Either software or the server itself and the config.

So, whe I got home I decided to try logging in to my webspace, and was able to get thru. I am going to inform the host about this, perhaps there was something they dis.

OK, I need to run, so take care, and I will get back soon.
SIncerely,
Gary.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

I hope it stays that way. I still get the 425, but that doesn't matter of course except that it makes me curious.


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## gary rabbitt (Jun 22, 2003)

Hi,
I have not checked the IP address of the site. It sure would be a mystery if the IP was the same . It is obviou that "something" had changed, and yes, I hope it stays thay way.
I am going to inform my host, and see if he knows of anything that was changed. Will let you know.
Take care,
Gary.


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## arayq2 (Oct 21, 2008)

gary rabbitt said:


> Well sorry to hear you are still having issues.


This thread is much too long to wade through. There is an answer, the details of which I'll post in a separate thread with an informative title.

But in brief: This is a server issue. The FTP server program responsible is pure-ftpd. The program aborts with this message if it doesn't like certain things about its operating environment. It does this first thing after a connection is established, so there is nothing a client can do to recover.


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