# oil pan nut stripped



## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

title says it all....just dropped $550 USD on my '02 Civic Si to replace the serpentine belt motor, took it straightaway to get the oil changed as it had been sitting a bit and was due anyhow. The gents at goodyear state that the nut to drain the oil is just turning, but that nothing is leaking out at least. They ballparked it at ~500 for a new oil pan, I'm thinking that if the nut is stripped, all that needs to be done is remove the nut, rethread the pan, and replace with a new nut/screw/whatever the farmer that is.

Any other ideas?  Cash is rather low (due to the previously mentioned fix) and we are moving in a month or so, so need to watch pennies closely.

thanks, 

v


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

valis said:


> title says it all....just dropped $550 USD on my '02 Civic Si to replace the serpentine belt motor, took it straightaway to get the oil changed as it had been sitting a bit and was due anyhow. The gents at goodyear state that the nut to drain the oil is just turning, but that nothing is leaking out at least. They ballparked it at ~500 for a new oil pan, I'm thinking that if the nut is stripped, all that needs to be done is remove the nut, rethread the pan, and replace with a new nut/screw/whatever the farmer that is.
> 
> Any other ideas? Cash is rather low (due to the previously mentioned fix) and we are moving in a month or so, so need to watch pennies closely.
> 
> ...


If you are going to fix it yourself... 
First, you probably need to figure out what in the heck they're talking about. I would remove the oil filter and get the oil out of there.

I'm not familiar with that particular model, but most are simply bolts that are turned counterclockwise, and removed for the oil to pour out. You can pull the bolt out, and go to a nut and bolt supply store. They may can assist you in finding a little different diameter with the same thread count.

You may just need a new bolt. The bolt and threads are machined; they are not difficult to tighten and remove.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

that was kinda what I was thinking.....I am planning on contacting the dude who fixed my car on Saturday to get his input as well (he saved, get this; $52 bucks by hitting Ace Hardware for a new screw as opposed to picking one up along with the part from the dealership.....ri-freakin-diculous) and see if he wants to tackle this as well. I'd just as soon have someone else handle it, in case I botch it and the oil drains out on the tollroad or some such. I've not had good luck working on any cars that do not come with a carburetor.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

valis said:


> that was kinda what I was thinking.....I am planning on contacting the dude who fixed my car on Saturday to get his input as well (he saved, get this; $52 bucks by hitting Ace Hardware for a new screw as opposed to picking one up along with the part from the dealership.....ri-freakin-diculous) and see if he wants to tackle this as well. I'd just as soon have someone else handle it, in case I botch it and the oil drains out on the tollroad or some such. I've not had good luck working on any cars that do not come with a carburetor.


I'm not thinking it's that hard. I'm just trying to visualize what they are saying actually occurred. With a gasket and being machined, one doesn't have to tighten it that much. It could just be the plug that has weak threads. If it is the pan that has poor threads, someone with a good tap and die set should be able to rethread for a slightly larger size. However, make sure they know what they're doing; they need to get all the metal shavings out of the oil pan when they are finished.

The oil filter is about the same level as the pan; so if you remove the filter, you can capture most of the oil. If you recapture it in a clean pan, you can pour the oil back in (assuming it is still fresh oil).


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

that's just it......they couldn't verify if it was the pan or the nut.....which is another reason for me to contact ol Sal the mechanic.....

Working with a buddy on evaluating ol' Sal's website; maybe I can work out a trade, n'est pas?


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## Knotbored (Jun 5, 2004)

http://www.timesert.com/html/oilpan.pdf
This kit has everything you (or a mechanic) need to fix the oil drain, assuming the old bolt can be pried out. Note those kits come in several sizes for different makes. I would suggest you buy the kit, take it to a repair shop just so they know that you know how simple the fix is- return your kit if the mechanic desires to use only their own parts. Personally I would prefer to do it myself if I had alternate transportation available if anything went wrong.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

that's the thing, no alternate transport.

what I'm thinking is similar to you, Knotbored....I found an oil pan for ~100, will contact the mechanic to see what the labor is, and have them remove the oil via the oil filter, drill out the stripped screw, remove pan, replace pan, replace oil....

How's that sound?


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

main reason I've decided to replace the entire pan is I'm pretty concerned about metal shavings gunking up the system. My understanding is that pistons don't care for FOD in particular, metal stuff even less.


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## Knotbored (Jun 5, 2004)

I wonder whether those 15 minute oil change shops run across the problem often and would accomplish the repair for less then the price of a used pan- have you called around to several of those? I bet they would quote over the phone. (my guess is about $40)


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

it was actually a 15 minute shop that discovered the problem. 

but yeah, that's a good idea. I'll make some phone calls today and post back.


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## Knotbored (Jun 5, 2004)

One last thought- why bother fixing it?
If you can get 90% of the oil out using the filter hole and suck the rest out with a turkey baster type suction device just make do.
Also- confirm that its the bolt threads that are screwed up and not just the wrench slipping on the rounded off head of the bolt (as described on some google comments.)
Note also that removing the pan ain't easy- sometimes the oil pump prevents removal and needs to be ubhooked thru a little-bitty slot as you drop the pan, and braces usually interfere and need to be unhooked.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Because I want to keep this car for a while longer yet.....love the dang thing, even though it's having a rough time currently. I prefer to take it to an oil change shop, as they can recycle the oil far easier than I can, and it's less mess on my end. I reckon $50 bucks every three months is worth knowing I didn't hose something up.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Tim, I'm still unclear what the actual problem is. I think you (or your mechanic friend) need to determine what in the heck they are talking about. It could be as simple as needing a new plug. 

Until you know the true problem, you may be throwing money at something not required.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

no worries on that one.....I don't have any money to throw anywhere, so _everything_ is getting examined for cheaper ways of doing it.....and I mean everything.....

From what I gather, the nut will turn but not release. Nor will it get tighter than it is. No oil is leaking, as far as I can tell, so there is that at least.

I called Goodyear, they verified that it's turning but not releasing. They didn't want to try to force it out as they were uncertain it would get back in. That's about it.

Bottom line is I need to get it up on jacks and get under it to see what gives. But I don't want to do that until I have the parts necessary and someone with the knowledge to replace the entire pan assembly if it is INDEED stripped. Sorta a catch 22, I reckon.

Besides, with temps <30 down here, it can dang well wait.


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

Tim: Quickly, more later on.

To fix a stripped thread, one should use what is called a Helicoil Insert.

http://www.helicoil.com.sg/HeliCoil-Installation-Instructions.shtml

Later........


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

yup, figured that part out....still concerned about shavings, however...


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

valis said:


> yup, figured that part out....still concerned about shavings, however...


If it's someone who knows what they're doing, there won't be much.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

but how much is TOO much for a piston?


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

valis said:


> yup, figured that part out....still concerned about shavings, however...


Tim: remembering a Twist Drill, enjoys flutes which carry away the swarf continuously *down* the shaft.

The trick is to:

1. Coat the drill bit in thick grease (water pump grease e.g.) prior to drilling:

2. Run a small magnet around the enlarged hole after drilling:

3. And, change the oil filter again after say 500 miles.

In any case, a magnetic sump plug is a very good idea! This attracts any small bits of metal swarf and one wipes it off on oil changes. Buy a new plug and glue a small magnet to the end using Superglue, after having completely removed any oil with Isopropyl or Acetone.

In order to remove the sump (Pan in colonial English!  ) plug, when rotating, insert a thin wide bladed screw driver or similar between the plug and the sump (Pan!) and lever downwards: this should persuade the plug to grip thread lower down its length and wind out.

We used Helicoils (Developed by Armstrong) to replace spark plug threads in ally head castings in situ: now pistons and their rings and bores are far more susceptible to nasty bits of metal, as no oil filter.



If you are really paranoid,  , then cheaper to remove the sump (pan), insert the Helicoil, then replace.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

I _am_ that paranoid.....

Which is why I think I will leave this to the trained pros.....reckon if I buy the parts (I can get them a ton cheaper than he can, as he is 'required' to go to the dealership) I can talk him down on labor. Maybe toss in a sixer after the job is done, eh?


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

Valis,
It's good to be concerned, but don't get to the the point of being paranoid about it.
Couple things,
If it were me, I would first do the figuring to see if it was the PLUG, or the PAN.
AND
Remember, these furrin things hab dem thar metrickal threads!!! 
SAE threads, based on the 'inch scale' have some LARGE jumps between bolt/nut sizes, the metric scale, on the other hand, is measured a LOT finer.

Heli-coils HAVE been known to come OUT on the object being removed. Yes, they have their times and places to be used, but if it were possible to just use a larger plug, no matter if it's the PAN or the PLUG that is the problem now, that would be MY first choice. It MIGHT even just be the last few threads at the base of the head of the plug if it's NOT 'catching' to unscrew. (Wouldn't that be nice!  )

Next, if you DO have to go to the next size,
1) The shavings would be IN the pan. 
2) The pump has a "screen" on the opening of the pump pick-up.
3) And remember, the pump pick-up sucks the oil FROM the pan, then pumps it TO and THROUGH the filter to go ON to do it's job of lubing the engine.
Why would you get shavings going through your engine?

And not just blowin' smoke here, been there, had to do that, couple times. One of 'em is my '49 XK120, t'other is my '73 Riviera GT-455X, (less than 70 made). Needless to say, I'm right proud of these toys.

So, hope you the best on solving this, but, calm down some, can't think when we get all excited.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

ain't excited....depressed, truth told, as this is tied to my wallet.....

Daniel, you GOTTA post pics of that Jag......you just have to. 

And relate the story behind it. And the Riviera.....how the heck did those two end up as stable buddies?


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## Guyzer (Jul 3, 2004)

Tim you are making things much to difficult for yourself. iom you need to put aside your fears and look for the simple way.

If some metal shavings do enter the pan when the plug is removed it will be such a small amount that most of it will flush out when the oil starts to run out. Besides that there is a double filter system as others have said that will block anything from going into the engine. You have nothing to fear.... nothing.

When I used to be a mechanic back in the old days we used a rubber expansion plug much like the one in this link. It's the second from left in the top row. They worked like a charm and were very inexpensive. It came with a special tool to insert the plug. Without that tool there's no getting the plug in or out. Any decent jobber should stock something like that.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=rubb...LtLKqQGMtYGIDw&ved=0CJIBELAE&biw=1920&bih=890

Click on the picture to enlarge it. Than click on the words on the right side of the enlarged picture that say Changing Your Oil & Filter. NOTE.... NOTE the words Popular Mechanics.


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## Guyzer (Jul 3, 2004)

Spent a few more seconds and I did some more digging. Found what I used to use.

Linky... linky... http://products.coronetparts.com/vi...ain-plugs-gaskets-universal-rubber-drain-plug


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Guyzer said:


> Tim you are making things much to difficult for yourself. iom you need to put aside your fears and look for the simple way.
> 
> If some metal shavings do enter the pan when the plug is removed it will be such a small amount that most of it will flush out when the oil starts to run out. Besides that there is a double filter system as others have said that will block anything from going into the engine. You have nothing to fear.... nothing.
> 
> ...


racking it shortly, but will definitely check this out on the morrow......as you guys keep coming back to this, may be the way to go......

cheers, and thanks....


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Paquadez said:


> Tim: remembering a Twist Drill, enjoys flutes which carry away the swarf continuously *down* the shaft.
> 
> The trick is to:
> 
> ...


mechanic refuses to use this.....for the same reasons I was concerned about, namely metal shaving.......sissy.

I've got a friend who generated a very detailed web analysis of his site; holding that hostage as he's stating ~350 USD in labor. going to call a couple other mechanics I've used in the past as well.....we'll see.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Guyzer said:


> Tim you are making things much to difficult for yourself. iom you need to put aside your fears and look for the simple way.
> 
> If some metal shavings do enter the pan when the plug is removed it will be such a small amount that most of it will flush out when the oil starts to run out. Besides that there is a double filter system as others have said that will block anything from going into the engine. You have nothing to fear.... nothing.
> 
> ...


apparently the high cost of labor is due to the car; one has to drop the entire exhaust system out to remove the oil pan. We'll see.......


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

Big deal!

When one is really unlucky, then it necessitates removal of the suspension, steering connections, brake hoses and cross member since the sump will not clear that pesky cross member!

Alternatively, lift the engine right out.

P.S. This is precisely why Helicoil inserts were invented.........

Just be grateful it isn't certain 1930s Bugatti cars. De-Coking had to be regularly carried out, as these cars used castor based oils and since piston ring gaps were set high, as old longstroke engines then used "Splash" lubrication of bores and pistons, much oil migrated into the combustion chambers and was burned forming nasty gunky sticky ash deposits. These cars burnt around *2-3 Pints of oil* every 100 road miles!

(Note: Jaguar XK engine such as XK150, early E type etc, burned circa 1 pint of oil every 100 miles at speed).

*Task:* *Grind in Valves.*

1. Jack up rear of car; remove rear axle:

2. Remove torque tube between rear differential and gearbox:

3. Remove Gearbox:

4. Remove clutch unit:

5. Remove flywheel:

6. Jack up front of car:

7. Remove rad and front engine components including cam drives etc:

8. Remove cam cover and tappets:

9. Working from under car remove connecting rods and crankshaft:

10. With assistant under car to catch each valve and note which cylinder and position, de-compress valve springs and remove retaining collets:

11. Working from underneath, upwards into combustion chamber, remove all coke and clean valves and then grind in valves:

12. Put it all back together again!

Why?

Monoblock casting: block and combustion chamber all cast in one and not separate!

They went fast, though!


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

my wallet certainly thinks it's a big deal. 

as an aside, drove a Fiat 124 Spider for a few years.....adventures in engine removal to say the least, and the worst part was that it wasn't all that difficult.

fun little car, however.


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

No Tim: no big deal for a wrench to remove and replace the exhaust.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Paquadez said:


> No Tim: no big deal for a wrench to remove and replace the exhaust.


I don't know. It's pretty exhausting.


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

Brad:

You urgently need silencing!


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

or at least significantly muffled....


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## Guyzer (Jul 3, 2004)

Think about the gas he'll have doing it.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm baffled....

It has been a while since I did my own oil change, but I always thought that there was a magnet on the end of that oil plug specifically to collect any metal shavings. 
My last problem with bits in the oil was when my local DEALERSHIP managed to get dirt into the top end whilst replacing my head gasket under warranty. That managed to jam the pressure relief valve and the resultant high oil pressure blew the oil seal on the end of the crank/oil pump. That emptied the oil pretty rapidly. Fortunately I was not too well oiled to keep the car on the road. Proving it was not possible. Repairing it was not cheap.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

would imagine not......the problem is that the plug to drain the oil won't come out.....I'd assume there was a magnet on the other side as well, but can't confirm.

Still waiting on the mechanic to come out and take a look at it. Told him no hurry as I don't have the cash anyhow currently, and am not doing a ton of driving anyhow (20 miles this past week). But he is very interesting in getting his ranking higher on google, so we'll see if a little barter can be arranged.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

The plug can come out, that's not the issue. Getting back in....


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

yup. We'll see what the mechanic says. At least now have several options on how to handle this thanks to you guys.


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

DaveBurnett said:


> I always thought that there was a magnet on the end of that oil plug specifically to collect any metal shavings.


Not every time, Dave, point of fact quite rare.

Many these days are simply a tapered mild steel plug: or parallel thread bolt with a copper washer which seals on a mating surface on the boss brazed into the sump pan pressing. Esoteric engines boast a cast ally sump.

There are actually a number of defenses: for example, the Oil Pick Up Tube (to the pressure oil pump) has a steel fine mesh basket strainer on its end.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

Well I must have picked up the rare cases then. Mind you i am talking about 15 to 20 years ago (on carbed cars and when engines had to be "run in")


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## Paquadez (Jun 9, 2003)

The Mini, for example, had a magnetic bit, stuck on the end of the drain plug: not at first!

However, since the engine and gearbox/transmission shared a common sump using straight engine oil, this was found to create unwanted swarf (from the geartrain), which was picked up by the pressurised engine oil lube system.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

So did the Saab 96 v4


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## Guyzer (Jul 3, 2004)

Paquadez said:


> for example, the Oil Pick Up Tube (to the pressure oil pump) has a steel fine mesh basket strainer on its end.


And that is raised off of the bottom of the pan so it's unlikely to pick up any metal anyway.


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## K7M (Feb 27, 2000)

I did not read all the posts, but your local parts store should be able to furnish you with a slightly larger plug, that will cut a new thread. It will last for years as I have used many at our shop... If you are concerned about chips, just flush a qt of light oil through the pan. That will get rid of most of the chips. If that is still a concern, glue a magnet to the bottom of the pan and it will hold all the remaining metal in place. A $5.00 fix and it works.


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## MowermanEd (Nov 26, 2005)

K7M IS GIVING YOU THE CORRECT INFORMATION. As a former mechanic I have used these over-sized self tapping repair drainplugs with success many times. A simple search on YouTube results in an excellent video of the process. See it here: 



 . The only additional info I would suggest would be to drain a couple qts of lightweight oil through the pan to be sure that all metal shavings are flushed out. Reinsert the new plug, add oil and happy motoring from there.


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