# Solved: HELP! Nvidia GeForce 8400GS Resolution Issues



## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

I just upgraded my PCI video card from a PNY GeForce 5500 128 mb to a 8400 512 mb - but now I'm having resolution problems... the new card is defaulting to 640 x 480. I figured that because the card was newer that my monitor was too old (it was an old CRT with only VGA plugs), so I went out and got a new Samsung SyncMaster 2233SW to use the DVI plug on the new card.

With the 5500 I had my old monitor set to 1280 x 1024 - now, I can still select a higher resolution, the screen flashes like it's going to resize it, but doesn't do anything. It just stays at the 640 x 480.

I made sure I had the recent drivers for the Samsung and my old M782 from Dell... and I've downloaded and installed the most recent drivers from nvidia. I've also tried removing the card and uninstalling it and the monitor from device manager. Then when I reboot, I need to use my fiances computer to remote into mine via LogMeIn because when I put the card in it doesn't display anything until I install the nvidia drivers. Oh, and I also just reformatted and rebuilt the XP Pro install several months ago. Up until now, it's been running like a dream.

Any ideas on what to do now?

I'm buying the new card in order to play Sims 3. I have a 3ghz hyperthreading Dell with 2 gb of memory. It only has PCI slots, so if anyone can suggest a better card that's a reasonable price I'm all for it. I only have 14 more days to get this worked out before I can't return the card.

*** Update:

I played around with some stuff... removed the card, killed the drivers, dug into the Windows directory and killed the DLLs there (backed up, of course)... after I remoted in (see above) and installed the Nvidia drivers that I downloaded and rebooted, it all seems to be working fine. I've been at this since yesterday at noon... that's all kinds of love for a game.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

*** Update ***

Well... some might have noticed that I took the solved flag off of this post... I'm still having issues with the card.

I've been sick this past week, or I would have updated this sooner...

Whenever I reboot the resolution goes back to the ugly 640 x 480 I mentioned above. The only way to fix it, seems to be to uninstall the video card drivers from device manager... reboot... then I go to my fiances machine and remote into mine, watch Windows install the drivers... reboot (while remoting in)... then everything is fine on mine again.

But the fix never lasts... as soon as I reboot, I have to go through the whole process again.

Obviously I shouldn't have to be doing this... are there any suggestions on how to fix this issue?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm not going to sugar coat your issues.

You shouldn't be having such problems. And when those rare monitor problems happen - usually using the drivers takes care of it.

The easy solution is to go back to the GF5500 video card. Reason being is that the PCI bus is already maxed out with the 5200/5500 (same GPU) and nothing will make it faster. Even when the 5200 came out at $125 back in 2003, it was considered a "joke" because the GF 4200 was about twice as fast and was also $125.

In other words, the 8400pci isn't needed, other than to get rid of the "older" video cards. Bottom end video cards last the longest because they never change and are fine for non-gaming computers.

If you want to ENJOY Sims3... you'll need a newer computer - something with PCIe slots. Even an AMD X2 computer with onboard video may work for you. About a $350 AMD computer by Compaq with a $40 ATI 4550 will give you decent game play.

Here is a quote from the sim3 website: _"Standalone cards that are installed in vanilla PCI slots (not PCIe or PCIx or AGP), such as some GeForce FX variants, will perform poorly."_ That means a slide show.

Video card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819
Compaq PC: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...abComputerSP&sp=+brand+skuid&usc=abcat0500000

The above is the cheapest "new & modern" solution.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks for not sugar coating it. I've been wanting a new machine for a while now... but like everything else these days it's a matter of money - and I'm also now waiting for Win7 to come out. I figure why bother getting a Vista machine when the new one is right around the corner.

When I do eventually get a new box, I'm going to be gifting this one my 17 y/o sister-in-law who is also a Sim freak - so it would be nice to give her a machine that works proper when that time comes.

Is there anything that I can do to fix the issue tho? The card does give better graphics on Sims3 then the 5500 I had, and that's really the only gaming that I do on my machine... that's what I've got the PS3 for.

I found a program called Driver Sweeper... if I took out the card, then ran this and put it back in - do you think it would fix up any conflicts I have?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Nothing can be done with the computer unless it has an AGP slot. PCI PCs with PCI video cards make very poor gaming PCs. There can't be a worse combo other than ISA which is long dead as its 80's~90s tech.

The 8400 is not considered a gaming card even for PCIe, much less PCI.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

That's not really all that helpful... and actually a load of hogwash and poppycock to tell someone that there is absolutely nothing they can do without an AGP slot when obviously the card works, as Sims3 plays fairly well - once I can get it to an acceptable resolution. The only issue I have is that when using 3x speed in the game it doesn't really speed up that much, but that's because I have an old machine, not the video card.

While I haven't fully fixed the issue yet, I've at least managed to take out the step of using my fiances machine to remote into mine to do the last reboot. To fix that I disabled the on-board video in Device Manager. Maybe I'll try backing up my important stuff, nuking the drive and starting fresh.

I did try putting the older card back in, and it did the same stuff with the ugly resolution - so it's obviously a driver issue. I tried using Driver Sweeper - but it wouldn't kill a couple of prefetch files. Can those be killed without hurting anything?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Prefetch files are a kind of "temp" files. You may delete them, they will come back when you reboot.

Do you have onboard video? If so, revert back to that. Sounds like you've cleaned your drivers, I've not personally experienced the kind of problems your having with the constant BAD video res, other than its a problems with the video and/or monitor drivers. Also go into Device manager and REMOVE the devices (video card and monitor).

While the 8400 as more "visual" features of the much older 2002 GF-5500, the amount of data that the card get get to process video is very poor. That *IS* a fact. The 8400 was already a "junky" GPU for a PCIe. Look up Wikipedia on SLOTS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths And go down to "Computer buses"

PCI desktop standard is 133MB/s (Even the 1990 Amiga was 150mb/s)
AGP x4 (Typical) = 1,067 MB/s
PCIe 2.0 (x16) = 8,000 MB/s (Standard on current motherboards) (1.0 = 4,000)

So, how is your computer going to pump several hundreds, if not thousands of MB worth of data to the video card? Kind of like trying to force 8 lanes of hwy traffic down an alley way. Hence, PCI is fine for what it is, but for a gaming computer - its horrible.

Again, _THE_ quote from The Sims3 website: "Standalone cards that are installed in vanilla PCI slots (not PCIe or PCIx or AGP), such as some GeForce FX variants, will perform poorly."

I'm shocked that anyone bothered to make the 8400 work on PCI, the company that made it might have made a "converter" chip to make it work on a PCI bus. It wouldn't be the first time that a company will do this. Just like ASRock made a mobo that can do both AGP and PCIe... but the AGP was limited to PCI performance since it was re-wired.

I'll stand by my statements. You may get Sims3 to work, somewhat with what you have. But it will take a modern system with a PCIe slot to make it enjoyable... allowing you to raise the resolution and game details. Once you get a dozen or so characters on your screen... you'll be back to a slide show.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

I had tried removing both the new monitor and the card from device manager before... and removing the card itself... and then ran Driver Sweeper, that's how I found out about the prefetch files. The card is made by PNY... so I'm not sure about the whole converter chip issue.

I think I might just be SOL as far as getting this to work right. It's ok for right now... sitting at a beautiful 32 bit 1920 x 1080 - but I know if I was to reboot right now it would revert back to the 640 x 480. Then I'd have to uninstall the drivers, reboot again, and then it fixes itself when XP reinstalls the drivers. I'll probably go and nuke this machine and rebuild it once I have a new one and see if it fixes itself with a clean drive.

I saw on some Yahoo thing today that you can buy a new machine now (or within the next few weeks) and get a voucher to upgrade from Vista to 7 once it's out. I'll prolly have to just bite the bullet and get a new machine early and then just do the upgrade when it's out.

Like I said, Sims3 does work... and actually quite well, and is quite enjoyable... it's really pretty. It does take a minute or two to load up the textures on new areas that I visit... and it doesn't really speed up at the 3x, but if I go to an unpopulated area and zoom in on some grass it helps out a lot.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

A clean install maybe best... you could have infections that have damaged the OS.

The Voucher for Win7 "free" upgrade begins in July. The PC makers don't want people NOT buying computers for the next 4 months... They actually have to spend $20 extra per PC to include the voucher, hows that for a rip?

Use the links above for the cheapest functional computer. The $250 Celeron PCs are not worth the pain.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks for the help and advice.

If I can hold out for 4 months, I will... I'd much rather have a machine that 7 is already pre-installed on then having to work with an upgrade copy. And it sure isn't going to be one of those cheap $250 machines... I'm an expensive date.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Yeah, that won't be a bad idea. Of course Hpaq/Dell doesn't like that... oh well, their problem  But yeah, it would be nice if Win7 came out before School season.

So, you're looking at a $300 computer? 

I was at Costco. They had an Acer PC for about $320... not bad for the price. Another once was $400 with an easily faster dual core CPU and a 18" LCD.

You should be able to get something for about $350~500, then ADD a $50 PSU to allow the use of a more powerful video card.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

It'll more then likely be around $700 or so once I get done with some minor tweaks... which is why money has been an issue with getting a new machine. I could go do a $400 one right now with no problem... but $700 is a bit harder to drop all at once.

I do luck out tho... my fiances work offered to let me use their HP credit card to get a machine. So I'll just have to make the payments on it... which will take a lot of the sting out of it, even if it does end up costing slightly more in the end.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

It would figure... now my DVD drive is dead. I think the computer figured out that it's being replaced and is telling me to go screw myself.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Pretty much any HPaq/Dell PC for under $1000 is not a gaming PC... but those of us who build our own computers can get away with spending $400~600 for a good low end unit or $700~1000+ for top end.

So... spending $800 on a HP may not be much better than a $400 unit.

Like Compaq has a NEW model computer (PC companies make new cases it seems when there is a NEW OS) http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9371869&type=product&id=1218093382970

Its $370, has an excellent low-cost dual-core CPU. Its internals are standard (easy to replace) and includes the free Windows7 coupon. Since its an HPaq, you HP deal will work. Looking on Best Buy's shopping list... HP's next PC that is faster is about $550~650 and up. As for other brands, you can have to spend $450~550 to be equal or faster. Most people don't know whats really "faster". ;(

But yeah, that $370 Compaq is better than the $560 Quadcore HP (But it has 1GB more RAM $20 and a 500GB HD $50 vs the 320GB in the Compaq) Both PCs use the exact same motherboard. The actual costs difference in the CPUs is $40. Compaq is the "low name brand" version of HP, but its the same on the inside. So for about $50~60 HP's costs, they charge almost a $200 difference in price 

Here is that HP: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9168205&type=product&id=1218041999474

So... $370 for the Compaq. Then add a good PSU and GPU and you're in business.

Price here is the lowest I would go:
$ 40 PSU (after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052
$ 60 GPU (after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161252

Thermaltake in this price range is a good deal, I wouldn;t get anything cheaper.
That particular video card has a special cooler which you REALLY should have in such a small case - its quiet and will help keep the computer cool. There are better video cards for $100, but with the games you list. It should be fine for now. Newer cards are coming out this winter. The 4670 is about 50x more powerful than what you have now.

So your total END costs is about $470... WOW, not bad for a gaming PC... that would have cost you $1000 3 years ago.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow... that's not too bad at all.

I was starting to do some pricing on HP and was looking at the $699 range models. I didn't realize prices had dropped that low on things. I do remember when it was that $1000 for a decent machine - I paid about $700 for my Dell.

I see on the graphics card that it's crossfire supported. What's the deal with that? You can share the load with two cards on the same monitor? How would it fair for playing various online RPGs like Entropia? Sometimes I get a bug to try stuff like this out.

There is one thing I like about the HP tho... it can have up to 8 gig in memory - the Compaq only goes up to 4. What does Vista and 7 top out at for memory? - I know XP only sees up to 3.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Hmmm odd. That NEW compaq is no longer on the website. I think they might have put it up there a bit too early. That would be the one to get... So on the Newer Compaq, it said 4GB? Strange since both the HP/Compaqs are using the same chipset board. I wonder if they error on the stats or HP removed 2 memory slots (instead of 4) to artificially degrade the Compaq.

Okay, went to the official site: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...+Presario&product_code=NP185AA#ABA&catLevel=2

They made it 4GB max on purpose.  And yep, it only has 2 memory slots (Saved HPaq 15 cents) But Windows7 should run pretty good with 4GB (and better than Vista) and vista should have at least 3GB for starters, but I worked on a 1.5GB which was usable.

The next HP model up has a Core2Duo E7500 for about $530. Thats not bad, but its $160 more for the option to upgrade beyond 4GB. That system has 4sticks installed, so you'd have to throw them all out to upgrade.

This is why some of us BUILD our own computers.

With a bit of a limited budget and no desire to build your own computer, I'd go for that $370 Compaq. To hand build such a computer:

$50 = CPU
$50 = mobo ($80 for a high end board)
$85 = case and 4000watt PSU (of quality, not excellent)
$75 = HD & DVD drive
$15 = cheap mouse & keyboard (that Hpaq includes) $30~40 for better Logitechs
$45 = 4GB DDR2 800mhz (2 sticks, room to expand to 4 without replacing)
$100 = Vista or WindowsXP

*$420 Total Base system*

Then add $65 for the ATI 4670.

$485 or so.

Or spend about $700 for the HP + $100 for PSU and 4670 GPU.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Oh no, you've got me all wrong... I would love to build my own, I just hadn't realized that parts were so cheap. The last time I built my own machine from scratch was over a decade ago - I was 15 at the time and it was from spare parts from my dad upgrading his own system.

I can only assume from you listing a version of Windows that the 7 RC isn't a full install, just an upgrade? I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of XP Pro with a legit site license, so that money can go towards pre-ordering 7 for October.

Do you recommend any particular CPU and motherboards? I've got no problems going to Fry's and getting parts... or ordering from Newegg. I'd like it to be able to last a while.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

As of today.
Gigabyte motherboard (higher end) / MSI or ASUS or Jetway for lower end
AMD X2 7750 CPU (2.7Ghz) = $50 or so.

SHop on newegg or Frys, for cases and such. There is some good $40~50 PSUs...

I sometimes find FRYs prices to be on par with newegg... and I prefer to get some parts locally. But the video card, newegg since Frys doesn't carry a big enough selection and is where they charge high prices.

I think I already linked to the $65 4670 card.

I dont think there is an upgrade deal for XP > WIn7


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

According to the Microsoft site I can get the 7 upgrade for use with XP, but it has this at the bottom of the page...

* Running earlier versions?
* If you have Windows XP or Windows 2000, you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. But you must back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications.

So I'll have to nuke the drive and do a fresh install of XP then the upgrade on top of that?

I think I'll go with the 7 Pro upgrade for $99, since it can do the XP Mode. I really don't see myself using the BitLocker or language stuff that the Ultimate version has... plus it's so expensive.

I searched the CPU you recommended on Newegg, it's a 64bit dual core? The upgrade for Win7 has both the 32 and 64 versions on it... so does that mean I *HAVE* to use the 64bit Win7 and only 64bit programs with this processor? I'm not really all that familiar with the 64bit versions and how 32bit stuff interacts with it.

By the way, thank you for giving me all this extra help and advice.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

If you're going to do a built (which I guess we;re changing gears) - provide a shopping list or if you want, I can drop one for you. Make links to newegg. again, I recommend buying some parts locally, like cases.

Example of a link (which will list a brand name of boards)
Motherboard : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

I'd look at the 740G or 780 series. The 740 ($55) has 2 memory slots, but so does that HPaq for $330~370.

What CPU are you looking at? All current AMDs are "64bit", Almost are 2~4 core models... considering that the cheapest dual core is $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

Yeap, Win7 Pro has a few extra features... I thought about it... but since I have more than 1 PC, Having a the XP virtualation mode is not important. Also, its useless for games... so in the end, Pro version offers less reasons to pay for it. Since its an upgrade, I think you have to specify 32 or 64bit. I'd go with 64bit and get it over with... it has own set of "problems", but 64bit is the future and it will run 32bit apps. But all hardware must support 64bit mode (video card, printer, scanner, etc).

Google versions or check out wikipedia.

Of course self-building wont allow you to make payements like with HP. And My suggestions are based on your <$500 budget.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm all for spending extra money for better stuff if I'm going to build my own - I can space out the parts over a couple of weeks and not have to worry about such a big hit on the bank account all at once.

If you wouldn't mind giving me a hand with a shopping list, it would be very helpful.

I checked out the motherboard link and I'm leaning towards this one for the crossfire support on the GPU. Is it worth the $30 extra for this board that also can do crossfire with the 2nd PCIe slot at 8x instead of 4x?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I really need to save this... CF & SLI users who buy for possible upgrade, rarely every actually bother to buy the 2nd video card. About 1%.

A single $100 video card (ATI 4850 / 9800GT) is about 6~8x more poweful than the 8400... so lets say you bought the 9800GT, and 18 months later you want MORE performance. You have two problems.
1 - You'd need to find another 9800GT (Of course this would not work on a CF motherboard, but this is an example), maybe a used one for $50 or so.
2 - It still wont be as powerful as a single GTX275 (Currently $200~250) by then, a future card "GTS 350" (as fast or faster than GTX275) may cost $125 and have DX11.
3 - You'd have to invest in either (A) buy a NEW 800~950watt PSU to handle such cards ($125~$200) nor or in the future and (B) add more fans for cooling.

You could have recycled (into a 2nd PC) or sell the card for $50 and replace it with a faster single card.

Your $500 PC can end up blowing up into a $1000 for a possible "upgrade". The $500 PC will smoke what you have now.

I'd go with this $75 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128379 or the $89 board you pointed to.

Because I like NO/LOW noise computer... the 4670 I linked for you is what I'd get.

Order parts in this order:
1 - Case (keyboard and mouse if needed)
2 - Drives
3 - Power Supply & OS
4 - CPU/Mobo/RAM & GPU (together)

You get those last parts together because you don't want to SIT on a motherboard for 1-2 months before finding out its DOA.

If you're looking at future more poweful cards... then look at spending about $60~75 on a 550watt PSU, rather than $40~50 for the HPAQ.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

You know... the more we work on this, the more excited I'm getting about it.

Here's the parts list I've got together from what you've suggested...

Gigabyte motherboard
AMD CPU
ATI 4670 GPU
500w or 600w Thermaltake PSU (I can't decide which)

From what I've been reading, it looks like I'd be forced to use the 32-bit Win7 if I was to put my XP Pro on the new machine - so I think I might just get the 64-bit Vista Business with the free upgrade to 7 Premium from Newegg or Frys.

All that, plus memory, case, hdd and optical drive should come to about $700 or so.

What do you think? Think I might have a winner here that will last a good 4 or 5 years?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

The free "upgrade" should only really work when you BUY a complete computer from HPaq/Dell/Gateway, etc... Not you buying an OEM CD from Frys. You see, those companies are actually spending about $10 per PC to offer that "free" Win7 disc... The $10 loss is better than people not buying a PC for the next 3~4 months (or getting pissed off).

Using a legit XP, I don't see how that would make any difference in getting Win7 in 32 or 64bit. And if you order Win7 now (which you're supposed to be able to do from Microsoft) you can get it at half price $50 (home) or $100 (Pro).

Parts looks good... Should be closer to $600.

Look at the Antec 900 Case. Its an excellent cool running case on the budget ($50~60). Its not a $100~200, but it does quite well for the price. Other brands to look at: Thermaltake, Gigabyte, Coolermaster. I'll give ya opinions... More expensive cases have filters and more fancy features. But still, that Antec900 is a better case than the HPAQ cases (which DO look very nice) - but I'm refering to space, expansion, noise and cooling.

It should last 3~5 years... but you could keep upgrading a part at a time for 3-7 years. My keyboard was made in 1997.  You may later want a quad-core CPU for $75 (when they get that cheap) but it'll be the video card you may replace first.

You're not really a "hard core" gamer, so 4 years or so (with at least 1 video card upgrade) is reasonable. I upgrade a part yearly... a major upgrade 2-3 years. hardcore people upgrade every 6~12 months!


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Yeah, my current machine has lasted me a good 5 - 6 years... that's been a few hdd upgrades, maxed out memory at 2 gb and the older 128mb GPU. If I can get 4 years out of another machine I'll be *very* happy. The $700 was including having to buy Vista 64.

I'll check out the cases. I'm not worried about how it looks, as long as it does the job of keeping everything cool and running.

Hmm... I was doing some Google research yesterday and I found a board (don't remember where it was tho) that had a quote from a MS board that you couldn't go from 32 to 64... but, then I found a FAQ question on MS that says I can (see below). The other board just quoted the first paragraph.

***********	
Can I upgrade from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows?

No. If you are currently running a 32-bit version of Windows, you can only perform an upgrade to another 32-bit version of Windows. Similarly, if you are running a 64-bit version of Windows Vista, you can only perform an upgrade to another 64-bit version of Windows Vista.

If you want to move from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows Vista, you'll need to back up your files and then perform a custom installation of the 64-bit version of Windows Vista. For more information, see Installing and reinstalling Windows.

For detailed information about installing and upgrading 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows, go to Installation choices for Windows Vista (32-bit) or Installation choices for Windows Vista (64-bit) online.
***********

Take a look at the link above, am I reading this right that I *CAN* put the 64-bit 7 on top of the 32-bit XP Pro?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

What you linked to is more of a HOW TO update VISTA.

If MS is offering an update for XP and there is a 64bit option - it'll cover XP32 bit as about 99% (estimating) of XP users are 32bit... Not much point in spending $125 for vista and still $100+ for Win7 upgrade. Just buy XP-HOME (unless you have a valid XP license) for $85~99 and use it for a few months and not deal with Vista pain. You can buy Win7 OEM for $100~125... and you'll need to a clean install anyways.

But as I've already stated... if you want to save money and hassle, install Windows7 RC today. Its either free or $10 to order the disc (limited time) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16800996054

You won't have to spend $90~125 or whatever for an OS to use for 3~6 months (if I'm going to Win7, I'll migrate in 2010 - but I'll be install Win7RC on a test system within a week or two). Win7 RC is good until the summer of 2010... So why spend about $200~275 for Vista & Win7 when you can spend about $110~140 for just Win7? Win7 is so much better than Vista... beta or RC.

Here is an idea of the $$$ you'll have to spend for the final Win7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...a&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=1&Tpk=Vista oem

See... Vista home is $100. Now, there is the $110 Vista + Win7 coupon... (Cool) if you want to TRY that route... but I'd rather use XP or Win7, period. I worked on a Vista box last week... it reminded me why I HATE Vista.

Here is Vista64bit + Win7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116677

Whenever you're upgrading an OS, you should always do a clean install. So 32bit > 64bit isn't an issue for installing... because you clean install anyways.

================ ================ 
I gotta go... I have a desktop to build for a client. 
The parts are pretty much what you have there. But we bought locally at frys. Next one up motherboard, the AMD 7850 CPU (He wanted the X3 or X4 CPUs... but I talked him out of it because what he does... he'd never notice the difference). No video card, 1TB HD ($100) by Seagate. $150 case by Antec, the P183. 4GB of DDR800 by Corsair with $20 rebate. ($25 is final price), Corsair 400watt PSU at $60. 25.5" Samsung LCD monitor with HD-Tuner built in.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Yeah, I saw that it was for Vista... but the process should be the same - since it says you can go from XP to 7 right on the main pre-order page.

So you think I should do the XP install and then the RC7 on top of that? It's not a bad idea. Then I'll already be familiar with 7 when it comes out full. Hmm... when does the RC start doing the 2 hour shutdowns?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

No... I'm saying... if you want to try it out... do a clean install of Win7RC. Don't bother with XP. And if you need drivers and WIn7 are not available - use Vista version.

DL both 32 & 64bit RC versions (or buy) if you want to cover your basis... RC isn't going to be much different from the RTM version (Release To Manufactures) which if "offical". Win7RC will live until next summer. Its the beta versions that are dying now and will be dead in less than 30 days.

And since you have your CURRENT computer operating, it won't be mission critical to try out Win7.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Ahhhh... I didn't know you could do an install of RC7 without something to load it on top of.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Install on top of it? You mean for it to install on top of, right?

With retail OS & upgrade OS - you can upgrade a previous version. OEM version will only allow a clean install. When going to a NEW OS, it should always be a clean install for best results.

I talked to a friend, he's been using RC7 since last December.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I've installed Windows7-RC on my old desktop... 32bit version, since it only has 2GB of RAM. Here is my experience / problems: 

1 - It installs the Ultimate version. (cool, full featured) - and you're stuck with the RC-REV number on the desktop (not a big deal).
2 - It installed in 16 minutes! From 1st boot up to desktop loaded and ready to use! (WOW!!) That is faster than XP... and I did a custom install (not much custom).

Hardware: AMD X2 3800 (2.0Ghz), 2GB DDR1 (400mhz), 250GB HD PATA. An ATI 9200 (PCI) video card because an old 7600gs finally died... 

3 - The 9200 is NOT supported under Windows7 or Vista... but I still have a high-res 32bit desktop that is horrible. But will be using an 8600GT in another desktop that this Win7 test system will be replacing.  So visually, I am in "basic" mode.

4 - Audio driver not available from Mobo maker (ECS) for Vista or Win7 (grrr - oh well, it was a FREE motherboard 4 years ago) - but the maker of the sound chip had a generic driver which seems to be working.

The computer boots up in 29seconds!!! (Timed at Bios to Desktop operations) ie: you can start using a computer. And the AMD X2 2800 is very SLOW by todays standards. Out of 2GB of RAM, about 700mb is being used. No AV or firewall software has been installed, yet.

2 hours with Win7... I like it so far. Enough that I'm thinking of actually putting it on my ThinkPad (been thinking of doing a clean install anyways) - but no official Windows7 drivers yet, from Lenovo.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow! Very nice! I've been hearing that it runs well even on older hardware... makes me want to give it a shot on the clunker here. Maybe I'll backup all my stuff to my fiances computer and put 7 on it after I'm done with the last part of a side project I'm working on.

I was thinking that the RC was only an upgrade to an existing install - good to know I was wrong. I'll be using it for sure on the new build while I wait for the final release. I ordered the new optical drive the other day. Probably order a part a week or so.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Dunno... older Dell, it could be problematic... If you XP box is working fine AS-IS... keep it. You'll have your new PC to play with.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

It is working for now... more or less. Maybe I'll just leave well enough alone.

Funny thing tho... I've stopped having the resolution issues that originally started all this. The only thing I've done recently is disconnect the cd drive that died and I changed the color profile for the monitor. The default profile was giving some off colors in Photoshop CS4 - white was showing up as a pale yellow. I read somewhere that it was a problem with the profile... after that, no more resolution issues. I don't get it... but I'm sure not gonna question it.


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## peck1234 (Aug 27, 2008)

great... also make sure to do a full scan with malwarebytes, as there is a trojan called "hack.displayproperties" that could be causing your resolution issues...


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Hmmm... thanks for the tip, I'll give it a check.

I've got a couple tools set to do auto-scans, but I don't think MWB has that feature. I usually run it manually about once a month or so.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Well... I think we've pretty much wrapped up my resolution issue - and more then covered the hardware for the new machine. It's just a matter of me keeping the duct tape wrapped tight and the bubblegum semi-fresh to keep the old one running for now.

I'll send you a message once I've finally collected all the new hardware and got it up and running. Thank you for all your help.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Okay... a bit old. The site was on a maintenance mode and didn't save the message. Operas nice enough to allow me to save my text.

I am still testing a system that is similar to that Mobo you selected and the AMD X2 7850 (2.6Ghz) - might as well pay the $5 difference for the extra 100mhz. 

With stock cooling fan and no change in voltage (which shortens CPU life) - I pushed the 7850 to 3.3Ghz. Cores remain under 40c idle, under 45 on load. But I've back down to 3.19Ghz to make it easier on the system.
My friend with the 7750(2.7Ghz) has his running at 3.0ghz.

Hard Drive Read with 1TB Seagate is about 120MB/s - MAX. Its onboard graphics is on par with the GF6600GT... not bad.

For PC building, I also recommend this power screw-driver: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9714681#ProductDetail Mine included a set which had a magnetic attachment... important to have for screwing into places. I avoid touching the mobo at all costs. It has a flash-light which does help!

This set includes it (photoed in the far right) http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...10053&productId=100632236&N=10000003+10401001
But I've seen/bought the B&D version with less parts for $10.

I need to locate a good site for hosting photos... I'm taking pics of PC building to help explain things.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Try Photobucket for photo hosting... it's free of course, and easily linked to. You can even text pics to your account from your phone.

I checked out the 7850... it's actually a few bucks cheaper then the 7750 I originally priced.

I've always wondered about how to OC stuff... but I've never been brave enough to try out of fear of killing stuff. How did you do it?


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Okay on Photobucket. AMD usually only makes one BLACK edition CPU per class (x2 , x3 , x4) so the 7750 are most likely drying up.

Overclocking is easy. But name brand PCs don't have such options as that is controlled by the BIOS/software through the motherboard. Its all in the timing. Such as the AMD 7850 CPU default is a 200mhz clock with a X 14 Multiplier - 2800Mhz.

In the OLD days of 486~P1 CPUs, they were open. It wasn't so much a problem with end-users OCing the CPU, but under-handed PC shops doing it. Thus, they could sell a P75 (P1 75Mhz) CPU in a computer and sell it as a P100 system, making an extra $25~200 for a single sale. I've seen vendors sell unmarked CPUs in bins of 75/90/100... most likely, they were all P75s - their prices were below my costs for OEMs.

So AMD & Intel locked the CPUs multiplier and starting building in ID code. Because the OC P75 would come up as a P100 during the BIOS boot screen. While today, my $180 Q6600 (2.4Ghz) will always come up as a "Q6600" even thou its 3.0Ghz and performed liked its Q6850 CPU at $1000. Of course there are no Q6xxx CPUs anymore. Todays C2Q 3.0 is the Q9650 at $320~350. Its only a bit faster than my CPU and requires less power.

So... AMD sells BLACK edition CPUs were are unlocked CPUs, but retain their ID.
To OC my Q6600, I raised the clock rate from 266mhz > 333mhz. I am locked at X 9. With such CPUs, you want a HIGHER multiplier to get the most per clock.

So with the AMD 7850, I went from 14x to 14.5x, raised the CPU clock from 200mhz to 220mhz to get about 3.2Ghz (400mhz OC) I did hit 3.3Ghz... but I like to tone it down. You also need to watch the CPU TEMP... before and after (idle and load) to make sure the cooling system can handle the changes. Going up a few Cs is fine, but having a jump of 10+ is bad. I couldn't hit 3.4~3.6 without raising the voltage to the CPU - which I am not willing to do for long. The heat from the CPU will spike and your chances of killing the CPU goes up. Also, the CPU will simply die faster... 1-2 years, rather than 6~15 years.

When you build your own PC, you'll see these options in the manual and in the BIOS.

You don't need to make some high-tech water cooling system to OC. Why spend $100~300 to gain an extra 100~400mhz? For some, its for fun. But water cooling does FAIL. Then theres liquid nitrogen... You can get the CPUs up to 5~6Ghz... but of course its useless for a desktop computer system 

PS: If you OC too high - the PC will either fail to boot or you'll get errors. Turn off the PC, BIOS will reset to defaults... and use lower settings. 3.2Ghz on the 7850 takes a few seconds.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

So, with a simple change of the CPU clock I could safely get it up to 3.2Ghz... very nice!

I'll have to dive into that part of the manual and BIOS and see what I can safely squeeze out of it when I'm at that point.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Theres about nothing in the manuals about what you can or cannot do. Join an OC site (ignore the Water cooling folks) if you want more techie info.

The only thing the manual says is: "This adjusts your CPUs clock". You raise or lower it. Sometimes, I wish they'd EXPLAIN in details what some of these things do.


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## tsheeley (Jan 4, 2006)

Ahhh... I see. Any that you'd suggest?

I found this Ultimate BIOS Guide a while ago and saved it to my delicious, maybe it'll help us both - if you don't already know of it.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Perhaps Maximum PC is fine... Overclockers.net (I think)... AMD chat rooms.

That BIOS guide looks pretty good, especially for novices. How useful it is to me, dunno yet. That is a general (well done), while a mobo maker may add a function that is not the same as another... thats the problem.


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