# Which commercial computer system is most trouble free?



## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Hello.. 

I have to replace my system as soon as possible. I am not even using my old system right now, due to an ac/adapter not working right and no battery backup on my laptop. Luckily I am borrowing someone's new Apple MacBook to help me figure out what to get. My Dell Inspiron 8200 lasted me five years so I can't complain.

So, new system. My biggest complaint with Win/PC are security concerns and nonsense. Therefore I am considering switching to a Mac. I will head over to the Mac Forum to ask questions about that, but as far as a Win/PC goes...I am considering them and would like to get as much input as I can before I decide, since I don't have a lot of time. These latest woes took me by surprise and I hadn't even thought about what to get next.

Here are my questions:
&#8259;	which puts together the best configurations?
&#8259;	which uses best hardware components?
&#8259;	which offers best tech support?
&#8259;	which makes best decisions about which software to ship with?
&#8259;	which is the most secure and will be in future? 
&#8259;	which system has security apps that work trouble free?

I realize that's a lot of questions. Please feel free to just answer which ever one seems to apply most to you. Thanks very much. 


adam


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

http://www.infotoday.com/linkup/lud100104-goldsborough.shtml

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139958/article.html


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks John for those links..


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

Also thought about a Linux version on a PC? That is substantially cheaper than a Mac, very fast and does not have more security problems than the Macs..


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

ZeRealBigBoss...

No, I hadn't thought of a Linux version. I wonder about software that is compatible? Is it in short supply? Can you share files between Macs/Win PCs and Linux versions?

adam


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

John, I just had a chance to look over those two links you posted this afternoon. They were exactly what I was looking for. I am comparing a Lenovo to a Dell to an Apple and they made it easier to do that. 

Should I post a separate thread with questions I have about the comparison?


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## Yankee Rose (Jul 14, 1999)

Here is another site you will find helpful: MacVsPC.info

Hope that helps.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

You can just keep the discussion going here.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Thank you Rose, I am going to look that link over too. I am sure there has been a lot written on the subject. [g]

John...here are some of my questions about the specs on the three machines...
Lenovo, Dell, and Apple. Here is a link to the three systems comparison:

http://www.pcworld.com/product/comp...T+2008&prodid=30450&prodid=30189&prodid=30190

They compare the three and give Dell lower marks for speed but Dell has a 2GHz vs 2.4 for the other two. I assume you can upgrade.

Apple has 2x more memory than the other two...4GB to their 2GB, correct? I am wondering if this is necessary to have this much? I assume it is RAM? They describe it as system memory.

They are comparing two 17" screens to a 15" Lenovo. I plan on using it as a replacement desktop but using it as a laptop, so 17" seems unweildy to me.

Lenovo has a removable optical drive [DVD player?] and the other two don't. What would be the benefit to a removable optical drive? Any? Could it just make it easy to replace?

Dell has an optical speed of 1 and the other two have 4...is this that important a difference?

Hmmm...the Lenovo has an nVidia Quadro FX570M video chip set and the other two hv GeoForce, 8600M GT which is better? The GeoForce seems more common?

What is the significance of the different ports and interfaces....
Lenovo has PCI Express for an external monitor...while Dell/Apple hv integrated
interfaces. Is this for connecting to a TV? Is one better than the other?

Apple has no media slots while Dell/Lenovo have 3. Could that be because Apple has provided the same function in a different way?

Dell has 5 USB Ports while Lenovo and Apple have 3...what are the USB ports used for and do you need 5? Do you use these for External Drives, Printers, Camera uploads? That is all I can think of.

Lenovo/Dell come with Memory Stick, SD card, xD picture card and Apple no?
Is this just a difference in technology?

Firewire ports...what are they used for and is 2 better than 1?

S-Video Ports Dell hs it, the other two don't
Docking Station Port ... Lenovo hs one, the other two don't
Infrared Port Lenovo hasn't the other two don't
Mini PCI Port Lenovo has it the other two doesn't
PC Card Slots Lenovo has one the other two don't
All hv Express Card Slots

This is a LOT of PORT Specs...!!

Is there some tutorial on Ports!? [g]

Apple doesn't include a modem and Dell/Lenovo do include a V.92...again...difference in technology?

I see two different weights...one with battery and one without. So when I am looking at the manufacturers own specs on their websites, the weight given is without the battery?

There seems to be a difference in network ports and this would seem to me to be important, correct? Dell has a 10/100 Base T Ethernet and Lenovo and Apple have Gigabit Ethernet.

Battery Life...the Lenovo has the 9cell and appears to have longer battery use. Is that because Lenovo specializes in Business machines? They also seem to have another bay for a second battery and the other two don't. I will be using mine at home most of the time and I normally use the ac/adapter cord. But I am on my 4th adapter cord with this Dell Inspiron and believe it or not I am very careful with it. They are not cheap, so I would like to avoid a repeat of that. Not sure if I should plan on using the battery more?

Well, those are my specific questions ...I know it's a lot!


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## Yankee Rose (Jul 14, 1999)

I'll take a crack at it . . .

_Apple has 2x more memory than the other two...4GB to their 2GB, correct? I am wondering if this is necessary to have this much? I assume it is RAM? They describe it as system memory._

Yes, it is RAM and IMO the more the better.

_They are comparing two 17" screens to a 15" Lenovo. I plan on using it as a replacement desktop but using it as a laptop, so 17" seems unweildy to me._

A 17" would be preferable. You'd be surprised how small a 15" laptop actually is.

_Lenovo has a removable optical drive [DVD player?] and the other two don't. What would be the benefit to a removable optical drive? Any? Could it just make it easy to replace?_

An optical drive is a CD or DVD burner that uses light or laser. A removable one is an advantage because you can upgrade easily, or if there is a problem you can remove just it for repair/diagnosis, etc. More and more laptops these days come with removable optical drives.

_Dell has an optical speed of 1 and the other two have 4...is this that important a difference?_

Optical Drive Speeds Explained

_Hmmm...the Lenovo has an nVidia Quadro FX570M video chip set and the other two hv GeoForce, 8600M GT which is better? The GeoForce seems more common?_

The nVidia GeoForce are general consumer orientated graphics cards - so yes, more common. The Quadros are more CAD-3D orientated cards and aimed at professional market, and comply with OpenGL standards.

_What is the significance of the different ports and interfaces....
Lenovo has PCI Express for an external monitor...while Dell/Apple hv integrated
interfaces. Is this for connecting to a TV? Is one better than the other?_

Both are for connecting to an external monitor. So yes, could be a TV.

PCI Express Explained

Let me look around for comparisons between PCI Express & integrated EMI.

_Apple has no media slots while Dell/Lenovo have 3. Could that be because Apple has provided the same function in a different way?_

Yes - by Firewire or USB technically. (Hook up device directly) or use ExpressCard.

_Lenovo/Dell come with Memory Stick, SD card, xD picture card and Apple no?
Is this just a difference in technology?_

See my previous answer. 

_Firewire ports...what are they used for and is 2 better than 1?_

Firewire Explained and yes, two are better than one.

_S-Video Ports Dell hs it, the other two don't_

An S-Video port can be used to hook directly to a TV.

_Docking Station Port ... Lenovo hs one, the other two don't_

The Lenovo model has a docking station available.

_Infrared Port Lenovo hasn't the other two don't_

An infrared port on a laptop computer can be used to transfer data to and from another computer or a mobile device like a PDA or mobile phone without wires over short distance.

_Mini PCI Port Lenovo has it the other two doesn't_

Mini PCI Explained

_PC Card Slots Lenovo has one the other two don't_

Also known as PCMCIA card slots - used for memory cards.

_All hv Express Card Slots_

ExpressCard Explained.


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## Yankee Rose (Jul 14, 1999)

More answers . . . I posted before finishing! 

_Apple doesn't include a modem and Dell/Lenovo do include a V.92...again...difference in technology?_

Modems are like 3.5" floppy drives ... becoming obsolete.

_I see two different weights...one with battery and one without. So when I am looking at the manufacturers own specs on their websites, the weight given is without the battery?_

Looks like it . . .

_There seems to be a difference in network ports and this would seem to me to be important, correct? Dell has a 10/100 Base T Ethernet and Lenovo and Apple have Gigabit Ethernet._

Gigabyte Ethernet is a newer standard.

_Battery Life...the Lenovo has the 9cell and appears to have longer battery use. Is that because Lenovo specializes in Business machines?_

Good question. 

_They also seem to have another bay for a second battery and the other two don't. I will be using mine at home most of the time and I normally use the ac/adapter cord. But I am on my 4th adapter cord with this Dell Inspiron and believe it or not I am very careful with it. They are not cheap, so I would like to avoid a repeat of that. Not sure if I should plan on using the battery more?_

I recommend that if you don't use the battery, don't keep it within the unit. Batteries aren't cheap either - guess they get ya one way or another!

Hope that helps.


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

In Linux, practically all software packages, that you find for Windows, are duplicated; a technically equivalent for specific programs, say AutoCAD, however, I never found, functionally less versions yes. I am not aware whether a really equivalent program exists in MAC. The complete Office package is available in OpenOffice, for free and 100% compatible with MS's version documents; in functionality I did not find any difference, but then, I am a normal and not a power user. Then, all fun applications like movies, music, included games and such things are there. Communication and P2P of course, too. All those programs come in the install package of most Linux versions.

Before I used Red hat, but nowadays I am using Suse 10.3, the latest. practically hands-off install via the internet. Here you can read more:

http://en.opensuse.org

Ask what you can do with Linux on that forum; you will of course get a pletora of answers; discard the geeks, as we are omnipresent.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

ZRBBoss.....On the Linux system, one of the draws with Apple is the lessened security issues, but also the software. How does the OS stack up to Windows and Apple? Which manufacturers are offering Linux as an option? How would tech support for it be different?

Oh my goodness, Rose, that article you linked to...I am just starting it, but just the fact that the person who designed the website has read over 4,000 studies and reports on the topic of Mac vs PC is pretty impressive. Thanks, it will take me some time to look it all over. [g]

Rose thanks too, for trying to answer all my questions. I sometimes envy people who can quickly make a decision and don't have to think too much about the details. Seems like sometimes they get as lucky as I do without as much work. [g]

On the graphics cards...so, the Quadro is better than the Geoforce? BUT, if I am not planning on using the CAD software, maybe I don't need the Quadro? If I want to use Adobe Photoshop will it run just as well on the Geoforce, or would the Quadro be an improvement?

As far as the many ports go..brother...! After looking at the links you provided, it would seem to me that this is an ever evolving area and it changes really fast and some of it might be overlap just to make sure everyone has a way to connect everything. I thought the Lenovo and the Apple did pretty well in this department. Does anyone agree/disagree?

I think I will not really need to use a lot with the laptop anyway. I don't have mobile devices. I would use, printer/fax/scanner/digital camera and at the moment, I can't think of anything else. I would be using it in a home wireless network, so it would appear to me that either the Lenovo or the Apple would do just as well with my circumstances.

I would miss that eraserball pointing device that the Lenovo still offers, a LOT. I wish it were not so important to me. I have problems with my hands and arms and that keyboard is much easier for me. I am hoping I can get used to the Apple MacBook Keyboard while I am using my daughter's to make a final decision on that aspect of whether it will work for me. I am disappointed in the useable battery time on the Apple and not even sure if they offer phone support. An important point to find out about.

Well, thanks to all the help I am receiving, I am making progress. Although I had been leaning toward Dell, which is the familiar and I have had good support from them, I am now crossing them off my list. Now it is down to the Lenovo or the Apple. Apple to PC comparisons according to the article I am looking at and answers to questions here on the Mac forum are making the Apple look pretty darn good. I am now still balking at the price and though I hear they are coming out with a less expensive machine soon, I don't know if I can wait. So that is where I am at. If anyone has any further opinions/experiences to share about which system is the most trouble free, I would love to hear it.

Thanks John, Rose and ZRBBoss...  Very very helpful!
adam


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## Yankee Rose (Jul 14, 1999)

Adam (and by the way, I am not following you!)  -

I am actually just like you in that I research like crazy anything big that I am going to purchase. I think you are very wise to take the time to ask questions in order to make an informed decision. It is a big investment after all. 

I'm not a resident expert on graphics cards, but seeing that all three systems are pretty much top of the line, I'd say the Quadro would be fine, especially with PhotoShop. I'm sure if you posted a question about a comparison of the two in the Digital Photography/Imaging or Multimedia forum there'd be lots of folks with experience/knowledge on the two that could guide you in answering if the Quadro would be sufficient for what you intend to do.

Actually those links I gave you educated ME as well ... it has evolved at a very fast rate IMO in recent years. 

Apple does offer phone support - free for the first 90 days (1-800-275-2273) and if you purchase an AppleCare service (3 year warranty) I believe you get phone service for a full year. I've been very impressed with their phone service when I've had to use it. 

I know what you mean about when you get used to a certain product and have to adapt to something else. I have an Apple wireless mouse that I use with my iMac that is really cool .... you can program all the different buttons to do whatever you want (I realize other mice do that as well.)

I understand the OUCH aspect about the price of an Apple product ..... but one thing to consider is that you don't have to spend any extra $$ afterwards on antivirus or firewall software, etc. It comes ready to be off and running as far as security goes. I believe you get what you pay for. 

Whatever laptop you decide on, you will certainly have a splendid machine. I would be drooling over all three! Good luck!


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

There are plenty of excellent free AV and firewall products, so the cost of those shouldn't enter into the decision.


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

Hello Adam,

First: Suse is a daughter cy of Novell. As I some time ago decided that Suse was most suited and easy to install and maintain, I have not intensified my knowledge of other systems any further. One that became quite popular lately is Ubuntu; it seems to be rather complete, too. As an alternative to pre-installed, the home-grown installation of any version is also easy: download and burn a boot-cd on any machine, boot the new one with that CD and the program checks your machine and downloads from the internet whatever is needed. Hardly ever fails nowadays.

Lenovo offers several pre-installed Linux versions and the necessary drivers:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-48NT8D

There where Suse 9.x is mentioned, also 10.3 functions, at least, I have heard nothing to the contrary. I am sure that the machines, that are not mentioned in this certification, also accept 10.3 without problems. Mine are a generic mixture of what I fancy at that particular moment and I have not had any problems. Here are their installation instructions for home-doing:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/s...osInstallationLandingPage.vm&sitestyle=lenovo

An article from 2006:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7778908329.html

Dell comes with Ubuntu.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Also HP offers machines with various versions of Linux:
http://www.testdrive.hp.com/os/linux/
http://opensource.hp.com/

Free Linux anti-virus:
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390/us/frt/0?prd=afl

The Linux versions I know all come with a built-in firewall. None of them tries to draw as much unnecessary attention and clicking as the Windows' one.

Comments on a replacement of Windows with Suse:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=ajk6hrk3t259_18mtjskw

I have a generic webcam on one of the Suse desktop machines that does not give a problem. Fingerprint recognition?? Duh....

A general place for comments; look for Ubuntu, Kubuntu and (Open)Suse:
http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/lenovo.html

With whatever you finally go for, do realise that here is no "best" system, neither in hardware nor in software. And, would you find it today, then tomorrow it isn't any more. For me, the best system is that one that functions without fail; I doubt whether anyone but a gamer ever uses his machine to the full, and even then the differences are marginal although very costly.
Ed


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

Not only the AV and firewall are free, but also all the Linux versions. Rose, your argument of dearer is better does not always apply.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

John, yes, I am aware that there are freeware with virus protection etc out there...but I have been doing that for a few years now and it isn't without it's compromises. AND it doesn't keep everything off your machine and there is little I hate more than spending two days with a computer support forum trying to find out why my machine is really slowing down and not responding right, downloading freeware after first posting back and forth for a day trying to figure out which one will work, etc. etc. Oh, and I am also so happy to have to use Firefox which although I did find it free and trouble free, the experience of surfing websites using it, leaves a lot to be desired. Safer, yes, but...

ZRBBoss...so did you buy a computer with the Linux system installed, or you bought a machine with no operating system and then you downloaded and installed the linux and configured it etc? If that is the case, how much time did it take you to do that? What kind of machine do you have?

Rose, I would be happy if you were following me around....lol.....you have given me such great input!

The Multimedia forum is a good suggestion, thanks.

Rose, you mention that these are all high end machines and you would be drooling. Well, that got my attention. [g] I have a tendency to figure out what the best is, then it doesn't make sense not to get the best. Not really funny the way I do that to myself. [g] I was thinking though, maybe I don't really need a machine that is at the high end and could pare it down to reduce the cost.

Here is what I would be doing with the computer...

Using a word processor that doesn't have to be as good as Office Word. Close would be good enough. A spreadsheet program that I rarely use for computation but mostly use it for type. Power Point or similar program would be an extra that would be nice to have.

I want to upload photos from a digital camera, edit photos in a program that is better than the software that came with my camera. I was thinking of Adobe Photoshop Elements which is a smaller version of their full software. I know there is an iPhotos on apple, but thinking it is going to be on the level of the software that came with my camera.

I would like to burn CDs/DVDs with files, music and video perhaps.

Plus the usual surfing.

I would like to use a very good calendar/address book/email etc. that I can customize the look of etc.

I do need to connect to my work computer.

Did I forget anything?

So, using it for those purposes, do I really need 4MB RAM, a 2.4GHz processor, a 160MB hard drive, etc.? I also will keep my computer for at least 5 years if I can and I would not want it to be obsolete by then. I don't necessarily need to be able to upgrade it to what a computer made 5 yrs from now would have on it, either. This last Dell I had was only a 40MB hard drive and I was only 60% full after five years, not having added any software in the interim. So although I use my computer daily for hours, I wouldn't necessarily say I am a power user. [g]

So what could I get away with for specs and still have a very good new system?

BTW, Does Apple use a firewall?


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

""Using a word processor that doesn't have to be as good as Office Word.
Close would be good enough. A spreadsheet program that I rarely use for
computation but mostly use it for type. Power Point or similar
program would be an extra that would be nice to have.""

All comes in OpenOffice the standard in SUSE. As I already mentioned, that is my preferred Linux version.

""I want to upload photos from a digital camera, edit photos in a program
that is better than the software that came with my camera. I was
thinking of Adobe Photoshop Elements which is a smaller version of their
full software. ""

Upload and filing photos comes standard in SUSE. Image editing is done with a program called The Gimp, comes standard in SUSE. To my non-professional-picture-editor eye there is not very much difference with the complete Photoshop, but I suppose that there are others who know better than I do. Anyway, for non-professional use it is excellent. If you insist on the full original Photoshop, there is a Windows-emulation in Linux, called Wine, that can run it. Many, if not most, Windows applications run in Wine.

""I would like to burn CDs/DVDs with files, music and video perhaps. ""

Look here:
http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilities/dvdcdburning.shtml
This is a pure Linux version:
http://www.k3b.org

Btw, in Linux there are two desktops, Gnome and KDE. I use KDE because it is configurable so that it looks almost the same as Windows 98 or XP, so no-one gets confused even if they have never used Linux before. A lot of time is wasted when a new look of an OS is introduced; it may look different, but most of the times it is only eating processor time an not better or faster.

""Plus the usual surfing."

My choice: the Opera browser; secure, completely configurable and free, of course. Comes including complete address book and e-mail. There are also a separate address book and an organiser standard in SUSE.

All the other things like music/video players, music encoders and so on of course come standard too.

Connecting to your work computer is via the Ethernet connection; those connections are automatically configured when the system is installed c.q. starts up.

With SUSE, you can check automatically or manually for updates and patches, that then are installed without your interference, if you like so. As SUSE is free, no-one checks the authenticity of your system. I run this once a week.

One thing for me is important: there is not one piece of software that calls home and transports your data without you knowing. Windows did that with all its office products already from Office2000 (maybe earlier, I don't know that), and now it is even worse with Vista where almost everything reports back. I will look for the link later and post it.

OK, hardware. There will come a time when you e.g. start keeping videos on your hard disk, and then you will find that also 160 MB is too small, but it is easy to hang on an other one, so don't go for the biggest (=most expensive) right now. Read this one: http://gecius.de/linux/dvd.html. A good video card is necessary if you want to play DVDs, but again: the increase in specs difference is reversively related to the increase in price. Processor: Go for a 64-bit dual one, either Intel or AMD, with a good motherboard (Asus, Abit etc). (SUSE comes in a 32- and a 64-bit version, whatever you fancy). Do not buy a motherboard with integrated video, as you might want to change that one after a few years. Whatever you buy of hardware, take the time to check out on the net whether for Linux there are drivers available, either in the Linux package itself or from the producer; practically always there is nowadays, but you might run into something so acutely new that it might still take a few weeks. I assume with this talk about the hardware that you would get a machine to your specs, not a run-of-the-mill-for-dummies one.

Click on my name to see my hardware in my profile. You will see that I do not have the latest hardware, although I have an industrial automation company, but the machines are seldom used for graphics. The way I did/do it up to now: I buy all things individually (a guess: somewhere $800- $1000 for a really uptodate system, but I am not living in the USofA) and screw everything together, and unless you are unable to recognise the handle of a screwdriver from its blade, you can do that too. If you read the handbook it is practically impossible to make an error, also not with the connections. I then downloaded the boot disk from Opensuse, burned it and then booted and had the system installed. For someone who did not do that before, it takes abt. one hour of reading options, hesitating, guessing, deciding and clicking and then it takes about 6 hours (run it at night) on ADSL to download and install everything. Ah, and if you don't like it or it goes wrong, you just do it a second time. Anyway, nothing is lost if you want to change your mind and want to switch to Windows: the Linux costs nothing, and you have built an opinion for free. That is, unless you then get a Mac, because that one is expensive with all the software installed and regretting is for millionaires exclusively.

Get a good high-definition 19" screen, that is easy on the eyes.

Also, if I were you I would do this, for Windows and Linux alike: keep the hard disk you have now for using as operating system disk and use the new one to put your data on and work on. If ever the OS gets destroyed, you can re-install anything without losing your data. There are several threads about this in the hardware part; read those. Under Suse, you can format (but mostly the disk comes already formatted with that system) your data disk with the FAT32 format, that is standard under W98 and can be read from and written to by XP and Vista too, so if you later would change to Windows, no problem. Connect the old one as first and the new one as second, copy your data from the old disk to the new one and install the OS on the old one.

And now the last argument for Suse/Linux: you can install both Windows and Linux on one machine; on start-up you then can decide from a menue which one you want to run. The machine where I am writing on now has that installed. If you decide to install Suse evt. plus Windows, send me a mail on this same name @yahoo.com and we better keep contact in that way.


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

Oops, all the time I was talking about desktop hardware. Portable ones of course is something different, you can not screw them together yourself but have to order them custom-made. Ergonomic disasters, they are. Still, the conclusive meaning may be conveyed from the text anyway.


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forg...s-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi ZRBBoss.....

Thanks for all the time you are putting in to respond to my decision making process about a new machine. I read your post and looked over your links and lots of interesting information. I had heard about Microsoft harvesting info but I guess it is just one of those things you don't like but accept it because it is a lot of trouble to do something about it and you don't have the time. Besides which my information would be so boring it would put someone to sleep. [g]

Having said that though, I am certainly very happy there are alternatives. I am sure that it is possible to secure your home computer and configure it to suit yourself. On the other hand, not everyone is up to the task. I would like to be, but I am feeling sufficiently stretched at the moment just to investigate out of the box systems and their corresponding software etc. I find it a stretch just understanding some of the computer vocabulary, as evidenced by my need to have to post a long list of questions after just trying to read the specs on machines I was considering.

I definitely am not wanting to build my own system. I did mention that in another thread but I don't think you saw that one. I would like to make the best decision for me on what I need, what I can afford, and have the ability to tweak it perhaps, add to it if I need to. Use it for five years, without having to think about it much at all.

Apple seems like more investigation and becoming familiar with something different in comparison to just going with Windows based machines that I am familiar with. If it were not for the fact that I was considering changing to Apple, I would have already bought a machine by now. Linux seems to be even more so than Apple, and seems to require much more time investigating and becoming familiar with it and many more decisions. I think it would be a little overwhelming to me.

The scenario that you describe of being able to put a computer system together with a screwdriver in an hour and then six more for the software etc....well...I think you are forgetting about the underlying basic knowledge and experience needed before you even go to the store and buy the pieces to put together. Even if it were possible to do it just as you present it, that would be more of a project than I would want to do. On top of which, not having any tech support on a machine that I had built myself.

I sincerely do appreciate your help and suggestions and I am pretty sure there are some windows based 'out of the box' systems that now offer linux and if I don't go wtih Apple, I will be seriously considering that option. Especially in light of the reminder about the info harvesting that microsoft is doing. I am becoming increasingly more interested in finding alternatives to anything Microsoft.

Thanks very much...
adam


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## ZeRealBigBoss (Mar 17, 2007)

Hello Adam,

Yes, when I asked what machines I had, I got carried away a bit, forgetting for a moment that not everyone likes to do the same. Anyway, the Lenovos come with Windows or one of three Linuxes pre-installed and working, all according to the customer's wishes. Still, you are using now a Mac and it makes sense to stick with that brand, now you have gotten used to it. The principal thing is to have fun with a machine and waging near-religious wars over in the end what OS is running does hardly make sense. CU.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

ZRBBoss....

Thanks for pointing me toward Lenovo. I had already priced a system at Dell and Lenovo and I thought I remembered one offering me the Linux but I couldn't remember which one. That is great. Yes, I am getting used to using the Apple, but it is my daughter's. My laptop is a 5yr old Dell that I am replacing. I am running into problems with being able to connect to work on the Apple, so until that resolves, I am not sure which way I am going to go. Right now we are talking to tech support at the office, to see if they can offer us a connection through Cirux so I wouldn't have to start downloading windows software onto an Apple to make the connection. If I would have to do that for Apple, I assume I will have the same problem with Linux. 

I use my computer at home to connect to the office on a regular basis, so this is now becoming the snag for me. I am waiting to hear back from a senior person in our office tech department about what they can offer to accomodate me. 

It would seem that therein lies some of the problem of switching away from the Windows based PC/Software...there are so many established systems that you have to interact with and it doesn't make it easy for sure. I have actually been very surprised at how easily I was able to switch music and photos between my old Dell and this Apple. So that was encouraging. Maybe this other snag will work out too.

Thanks ZRBBoss


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