# Imaging Windows 8 with older versions of Acronis True Image



## MisterGumby (Feb 15, 2013)

Hello. I'm reluctant to buy/install True Image 2013 on my Windows 8 system until Acronis have fixed the problems with TI 13.

In theory, my version of True Image (2010) is incompatible with Windows 8 but I wondered if I could boot from a TI 2010 CD and image my Windows 8 C drive from there. TI 2010 wouldn't know/care about the OS? Or am I missing something?

Failing that, any recommendations on alternative imaging software would be welcome.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I did think it was worthwhile to purchase the 2013 version. However, until then, I was using 2009 from a boot cd, for imaging Windows 8. As you say, the OS should not be aware, as the program is loaded into memory before working. I am sure the same principle applies with ver. 2010. The imaging is no problem but, of course, you will miss the scheduling from the installed program.


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## MisterGumby (Feb 15, 2013)

Great. Many thanks davehc. I'll buy 2013 in due course but this morning received my new XPS 15 and want to image it incrementally as I build my system. Haven't booted it yet - was ice-cold when delivered and so perhaps covered in condensation internally.

Having said "in due course"...are you happy with 2013? Works well for you? If so, perhaps I'll get on and buy without delay, so that I can continue with my scheduled data back-ups, etc.


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## MisterGumby (Feb 15, 2013)

The reviews are generally favourable so I caved in and bought TI 2013


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

Works very well M8. It has a couple of new functions and the menu is just a little different - but no problem. Looks like you are pretty experienced with it's use, but, in case, what I always do, as soon as I have finally got to the desktop, is make a backup. That is only for expedients. But I then activate it and make another back up. That one becomes the base for any outstanding problems in the future. As you are aware, the advantage of that is the activation stays with the image so renewal is not needed. Then come my big deal! I install all my software and configure it. - Yet another backup, but this is my "working model".. After that, it's up to the individual. Lot of initial work, perhaps but, by golly, it saves a lot of grief later.


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## Phantom010 (Mar 9, 2009)

I've had nothing but trouble with Acronis True Image 2010. It's always been unstable and buggy. Not mentioning their poor excuse of a customer support, oh boy! I'm not going back to Acronis, ever!

I'm not using it anymore, but I do find *Try & Decide* very useful. That, I still use regularly.

I really hope they got their act together with version 2013, for your sake.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I am sorry you have been so unsuccessful. I have been involved in Beta testing of earlier MS products, and do quite a lot of third party testing on Microsoft OS's. As a result, I find it easier and safer to constantly keep images running. Can't really recall, but I think I started using Acronis sometime around about 5 Years ago. I swear to you I have never had a failure, or a hiccup, in that time.


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## Phantom010 (Mar 9, 2009)

davehc said:


> I am sorry you have been so unsuccessful. I have been involved in Beta testing of earlier MS products, and do quite a lot of third party testing on Microsoft OS's. As a result, I find it easier and safer to constantly keep images running. Can't really recall, but I think I started using Acronis sometime around about 5 Years ago. I swear to you I have never had a failure, or a hiccup, in that time.


Probably depends on computer configuration, I guess.


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## MisterGumby (Feb 15, 2013)

Phantom010 - I've been using TI through several versions without significant problems, including TI 2010 since upgrading to Win7 when it was first available, so am happy to take a chance on 2013 for my Win8 machine. I do recognise that many people have had problems with TI 2010 but suspect you're right - it depends on your config.

Thanks davehc. First thing I tried to do was boot from CD so that I could image the drive before even firing it up, but some sort of security policy prevented CD boot. Never mind, I guess I can create recovery DVDs. As soon as I've finished setup and activation, I'll install TI and image the drive, then take further images at every significant stage. And I'll be backing up the images to another drive - belt and braces but, as you say, it'll be worth it one day. You only have to be saved by an image once, to make it all worthwhile.

Have you tried the TI 2013 Migration Assisitant? I'm not clear on whether it will migrate apps like Office from Win7 to Win8 and save the activation hassle.


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

MisterGumby said:


> First thing I tried to do was boot from CD so that I could image the drive before even firing it up, but some sort of security policy prevented CD boot.


Are you aware of the UEFI Win 8 uses instead of the old BIOS? If not, it is something you should learn about. In order to boot from anything other than the internal hard drive, one must change the boot settings in UEFI.


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## prunejuice (Apr 3, 2002)

I had trouble imaging Windows 8 with True Image 2011, but TeraByte worked perfectly.


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## MisterGumby (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks prunejuice. I created my first Windows 8 image without any trouble, using TI 2013. Will try restoring it to a fresh HDD, to check it.

And thanks raybro - I'd heard of UEFI and when I looked at the bios it was certainly different! I tried going into Boot Options and choosing CD but that's when I got a security error. I'll go and educate myself on UEFI.

What a lot of helpful people around here!


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

To boot into a CD/DVD. Open boot options (F12 at boot) and using the arrow keys select *Change boot mode settings* and hit *Enter*. Then select *Legacy Mode, Secure boot Off* and hit *Enter*. On reboot, Hit F2 (Setup), arrow key to *Boot*, and set boot order so CD drive is before Hard drive.

Assuming that all works, you must go back and reset to *UEFI Mode, Secure boot on* when done before you can boot back into Windows in normal manner.

FYI... I have Acronis TI 2013 installed on my Win 8 machine and I have found Easeus ToDo (free version) to be more useful the TI. I used Easeus to create a clone on an SSD with no problems (after I learned a bit about SSD's). I was unsuccessful in doing the operation with Acronis.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I haven't paid much attention to alternatives, but raybro's comment on Eusus interested me. Downloaded and installed and ran it. How was your experience with the time? It took 45 minutes to copy my hard drive, which takes 12 minutes with Acronis. This was a bit of a shocker. With this particular operation, I am not normally in a hurry, but that was a little over the top.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Paragon's products are without equal (at least in my mind). Every program usually includes far more than it appears to at first. You get defrag with partition management tools, for example. I've had nothing but good luck with all their products. Even tools like the "boot fixer" does an amazing job of fixing just about any boot problem that it is possible to fix (it obviously can't "fix" a really smashed OS so it will boot).

I once had a machine that Acronis just would not install on (something to do with snapman.sys, that driver that you can never remove even if you remove Acronis without making the system unbootable) and used Paragon Drive Backup instead. I restored once, but never had a hiccough using it. They have "reduced" versions of a lot of tools, and some tools for admins (free) that are really indispensable at times.

http://www.paragon-software.com/index.html

(I got the Hard Disk Manager Suite. It includes just about all their tools, and makes images, too, of course. It is often the only CD I bring to a sick machine. It can convert back and forth between real and virtual machines of all the major VM companies. And a tool called "Adaptive Restore" strips an OS of all its drivers for installation on new hardware.)

Free Paragon tools for imaging, partitioning, and recovery:

http://www.paragon-software.com/free/

But, there are a lot of other good ones, too.


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

davehc said:


> I haven't paid much attention to alternatives, but raybro's comment on Eusus interested me. Downloaded and installed and ran it. How was your experience with the time? It took 45 minutes to copy my hard drive, which takes 12 minutes with Acronis. This was a bit of a shocker. With this particular operation, I am not normally in a hurry, but that was a little over the top.


Elapsed time is not something I've given much attention. I generally get it going and walk away until its done. My sense of it is there is not a great difference. Having said that, when I run new full backups (about twice a year), I generally do it with both programs (I'm a great fan of redundancy), I'll time it just for the nuts of it.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

davehc said:


> I haven't paid much attention to alternatives, but raybro's comment on Eusus interested me. Downloaded and installed and ran it. How was your experience with the time? It took 45 minutes to copy my hard drive, which takes 12 minutes with Acronis. This was a bit of a shocker. With this particular operation, I am not normally in a hurry, but that was a little over the top.


I don't generally notice time, either, but that seems like a big difference. Even 12 minutes seems a bit short, unless it was an incremental. But your drive may well be less full than mine.

One of the big things I look for in an imager (though less now than in the past) is the degree of compression. Leaving out obviously unneeded things like the temp folder, maybe the Recycle Bin (which you can opt to leave out in Acronis in case you forgot those movies you deleted), the page- and hiber- files, can make the image much smaller. Acronis has always had the best compression (especially on "High") than any I have tried, though the excellent Macrium's (an Acronis clone) and Paragon's are equal or not far behind.

Keep in mind, too, that a defrag will mean a "whole, new system" to most imagers and Acronis (though I'm not sure about recent versions) and an incremental can be as large as a full image under those circumstances. Another good reason, and there are many, why defragging too often is not recommended.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

As I own it, Ill stick with Acronis. Does everything I ask for. (I don't use hiber files, so that is not a consideration)
I do agree regarding defragging. Not my field, but surely defragging (for example on start, with some programs) must only increase the eventual wear and tear on the Hard disk?

I have a massive clean up every couple of months - manual, clean manager; Ccleaner, and then a defrag. But that is only because I am deep into testing new products. Alternatively, of course, as we are discussing here, I just put back an earlier clean image.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Some people have declared with some pride that they defrag every day. Not only is that a waste of time and disk, but the layout.ini has not gathered enough data to optimize file placement, so the defrag itself is then less than optimal. They are doing their machines a disservice thinking that they are being efficient.


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

Among its numerous other advantages, since one does not ever defrag an SSD, the discussion of "to defrag or not to defrag" becomes moot. One of the best upgrades I ever did.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

Not my words, and I don't have an SSD. This is what Microsoft say:
*"In Windows 8, when the Storage Optimizer (the new defrag tool) detects that the volume is mounted on an SSD - it sends a complete set of trim hints for the entire volume again - this is done at idle time and helps to allow for SSDs that were unable to cleanup earlier - a chance to react to these hints and cleanup and optimizer for the best performance. We do not do a traditional defrag (moving files to optimizer there location for space and performance) on SSDs.*

_* Trim is a storage level hint that was introduced in the Windows 7 days to indicate that Windows is not using certain regions of the storage device; NTFS will send these trim hints when files are deleted or moved from those regions; SSDs consume these hints to perform a cleanup in the background called as 'reclaim' that helps them get ready for next writes. The SSD may choose to perform the optimization immediately, store the information for later optimization or throw away the hint completely and not use it for optimization since it does not have time to perform this optimization immediately.*_
_*Users thought it a bug in the new OS and disabled the defrag task since a "classic defrag" would cause wear out. But in point of fact disabling the Windows defragmenter in these cases could lead to more damage over time as trim messaging would be disabled."*_


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

Mister Gumby
In addition to the advice re Acronis, Easeus Todo and Paragon *do not forget the inbuilt capability with Windows 8.*
You may use the now called Windows 7 File recovery, in Control panel , which will create a system image on an external drive, and together with a repair disc if you wish it. It can also be used for scheduled backup.

*If the image is created it is, as usual, an all or nothing, you cannot choose what to restore*
*With scheduled backup as well when you can choose and the use of one of the third party programs, you will be well protected.*

You may also use the File History in Windows 8, to supplement other backups and especially if Refresh your PC is necessary

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2748351

Although from HP a useful easy to follow article
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=uk&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c03544793

and File History
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/how-use-file-history

and finally whilst I do not use Acronis True Image, I would urge great caution on relying solely on that
http://kb.acronis.com/content/34965

Indeed the first version of Acronis True Image 2013 had a bug that would not allow restore on 8
http://kb.acronis.com/content/34996


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

As I said in my post #5, I use the bootable Acronis disk, and make images along the way. The faults listed are then not present, as the disk has no way of knowing what incompatible programs are present. I do rely on it, 100%. Should it ever let me down, (it never has) a reinstallation is the fall back.


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

I do not know, as I do not use it, but there have certainly been reports of the recovery from the system image failing, especially it appears on OEM where 8 was pre-installed

I apologise if I did not make what I consider to be the the important point more clear


> In addition to the advice re Acronis, Easeus Todo and Paragon *do not forget the inbuilt capability with Windows 8*


People are I think, missing it because of the misleading title of Windows 7 File Recovery

*Acronis True Image 2013*
Is reported as not being able to recover system image from the Acronis startup disc, if the computer has 8 pre-installed, bears the Microsoft certified for windows label, as it must then have a UEFI (BIOS) , and therefore a GPT partitioned hard drive and Secure boot enabled.

Acronis are aware of this and expect to release the solution later this month and roll out an update in March

At this time they recommend disabling secure boot, to then allow legacy boot to be enabled, that is effectively returning the system to the old BIOS.

Then restore, then renable UEFI and secure boot.

However and I will stand corrected, as again I must stress I do not use Acronis, but that work around, may indeed NOT work, depending on how the UEFI and Secure boot options were configured by the OEM

Not the best worded topic on the subject, but one of the most comprehensive.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27...e-Boot-proves-problems-for-Acronis-True-Image

The reason the Acronis disc will not boot the computer with secure boot and uefi is that UEFI boots from a file and if that file is not on the disc, it will not boot the computer, just as it will not boot from a flash pen drive, if it is not formatted FAT32 and has the necessary file.
GPT can read NTFS but cannot boot from it

In principle the problem is the same, as was faced by Ubuntu etc, installing and dual booting on UEFI based Windows 8., which they Ubuntu have now solved.


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

Thanks davehc for the info about defrag/optimize as it applies to an SSD. I did some basic research and found you are quite correct. Therefore, I renabled the defrag schedule (which I previously turned OFF) and ran a defrag on my C:/ drive. Win 8 detected the SSD and listed it as such. Then the program proceeded to Optimize the drive. It took about 2 seconds.

Having said that, I'm unsure it was necessary. Part of the Win 8 optimization process I performed when the SSD was installed was to ensure TRIM is enabled.

Following is a quote from that optimization process:


> TRIM check (always enabled in W8)
> 
> Go to the Command Prompt and type:
> 
> ...


When I checked the TRIM status, it was already enabled. (See attached screenshot)

It's my understanding that TRIM is actually part of the SSD firmware and is automatically enabled by Win 8 when an SSD is detected. In any event, at this point in time, I'm reasonably sure TRIM is in operation. The implementation of a periodic optimization procedure can only enhance the efficiency of the SSD.


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