# ME - From Blue Screen to Unbootable, Now What?



## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Well, i was originally going to post a hijack this log about a blue screen of death error that i asked about in another thread, but since then i can't boot the computer at all. 

i have spoken to dell and we tried to boot from my original floppy which i created when i got the computer in 2000 (no good), ran hardware diagnostics from the dell CD which showed no hardware problems other than write errors which we assumed to be the cumputer trying to write to an unwritable CD, namely the diagnostics CD and looked for booting with a C prompt option which doesn't seem to exist and tried to revert to an earlier saved date (did not work)

While booting to safe mode i get the error "error loading explorer.exe. you must reinstall windows." then another box comes up after hitting ok to the first one that says, "a required .dll file c:\windows\system\shlwapi.dll was not found." if i try to boot any other way the computer just turns itself off.

dell says reinstall ME and lose all data on HD. if so, how could i save my files before reinstalling ME? Please Help. is there anything else i should try?

here is the pertinent info from my original post:

21-Jun-2005, 10:13 AM 
PTNR 
Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2 
Experience: Intermediate 

same problem 

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i am also running windows ME and just like the above problem, i have the same deal with something hanging on shut down but i don't know what it is. 
i could start a new thread if that would be appropriate. 

any help would be apreciated as i am new here.

also, i get the blue screen of death upon shutdown that states .... ERROR:OE:00C7:826CB9FQ and then i can't shut down.

i have disabled the unnessary startup stuff with msconfig.

i am running a dell inspiron 4100 pentium III 866 with 256MB sdram @ 133mhz, (all factory stuff), circa end of the year 2000.

basically i only use this machine for internet surfing and digital picture storage and manipulation, (20GB 7200 ultra ata HD). Has ms works suite 2001 standard installed by factory. 

recently added motorola surfboard for cable internet access and a basic network card supplied by comcast. also added Stealth S80 128 MB AGP Graphics Card for dvi compatability with 19" flat monitor.

i had norton but dumped it for avast just recently.

this computer is run alongside a newer cpu running windows xp. the two are conected to a BELKIN|KVM switch F1DD102U.

thanks in advance for any input and please let me know if there is any more info i can provide.

One other thing.... i have and frequently run adaware and spybot. thanks again.

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Last edited by PTNR : 21-Jun-2005 at 10:22 AM. 

#11 21-Jun-2005, 03:29 PM 
flavallee 
Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valrico, Florida (USA)
Posts: 8,136 
Experience: Advanced 

PTNR:

You need to start a post of your own. Trying to help 2 different people at the same time in the same post is too confusing.

Start your own post and submit a HijackThis log.


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## Zman1764 (Jun 2, 2005)

DOS is one way to save your files (Complicated). You might have to stick another hard drive in there, then transfer those files over (good idea, but who has one empty hard rive?). You could put that hard drive in ANOTHER comptuer, then transfer those to the good working computer (best Idea). UNLESS, you tried to do a dell recovery, from the boot up prompt (Last Resort), but U NEED TO USE THE OPTION SAYING RESTORE MY FILES, NOT DESTROY MY HARD DRIVE, THIS WILL MAKE THE HARD DRIVE BE ERASED, WHICH ISN'T GOOD IN YOUR CASE. sorrry bout the caps. anyway thats all I could think of. Reply back it you need help.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

thanks so much for the input.

well, i do have another computer running XP so i suppose i can install the HD from the ME machine into the XP one. i would need info on the the right way to do this and how to actually get the data transferred. 

before i start anything though, i do want to hear from people to see if it is possible to do anything to bring the ME system back before i start taking things apart.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

bump.........


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## Zman1764 (Jun 2, 2005)

how much data approximatly is on the broken computer?


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

maybe 10GB or so....


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## Zman1764 (Jun 2, 2005)

oh ok.. I was gunna suggest that you can send them to your own email, if it was like 100 MBs, but that wont work. Ill figure suttin out.... Dont worry..


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## Zman1764 (Jun 2, 2005)

if you can boot into safe mode with networking, you can network the files over to the XP amchine. Otherwise your gonna have to get under the hood, or in the case and move the hard drive. I cant think of another way.


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## junior1 (May 10, 2004)

i also used to get this probelm


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

been away for vacation. i can't boot it up at all. safe mode just tells me to "reinstall windows".


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## Zman1764 (Jun 2, 2005)

Yea onfortunatly ur gonna have to put it in the second PC. I dont mean to trouble you, but theres just no other way, I dont want you to take thi risk of losing your data. So im sorry, but unless sum1 ehre has another way, thats wht your gonna have to do. :down: :down:


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

anyone else like to chime in to affirm/deny if this is the only way?

if this is true, could you tell me how to set it up in the other computer. it is running XP and is a DELL 4700. thanks for all your input. 

at least it seems there is something i can do to get my data back. after i get it in the other computer will i just be able to drag and drop like a regular extra drive? and also, i guess i would put it back into the old machine and wipe it clean to start fresh? thanks again for your help.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If Dell provided you with a Windows Millenium CD, you will not "lose data" by doing a reinstall.

However even this may not be necessary if you can get the boot floppy to work.

Exactly what happens when you try to use it, and have you tried more than one?

Did Dell instruct you on how to ensure that the floppy drive is set first in the BIOS boot order?

If you can boot with a WinME boot floppy you can try following these directions:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q279736&ID=KB;EN-US;Q279736

If you just want to reinstall Windows, and you cannot get a boot floppy to load, make sure the CD drive is first in the boot order and boot with the Microsoft CD. You should be able to run "setup" off it.

If you had problems with the first floppy, I'd suggest you create a new one using the WinME OEM version available below. You must download it to the HARD drive, put a floppy in the floppy drive and run the setup to create the bootable floppy.

http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Rollin' Rog said:


> If Dell provided you with a Windows Millenium CD, you will not "lose data" by doing a reinstall.


DELL told me that they would walk me through a reinstall of windows and that doing so would wipe out any data i have on the drive. What do you think about that?



Rollin' Rog said:


> However even this may not be necessary if you can get the boot floppy to work.
> 
> Exactly what happens when you try to use it, and have you tried more than one?


i tried it a while ago so i don't remember the specifics but i did not try a second one. i can retry and post back with specifics.



Rollin' Rog said:


> Did Dell instruct you on how to ensure that the floppy drive is set first in the BIOS boot order?


they instructed me to change the boot order in BIOS only to try the diagnostic CD. i tried the floppy on my own without the BIOS change and was able to read from the floppy but again, this was a while ago so i only remember that i didn't get far with the floppy. i guess i should try it again. any specific instructions i should know as far as booting from the floppy?[/QUOTE]



Rollin' Rog said:


> If you can boot with a WinME boot floppy you can try following these directions:
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q279736&ID=KB;EN-US;Q279736
> 
> ...


i will try the floppy i made when i first got the computer and a new floppy if the first one doesn't work with the BIOS set to boot the floppy first. if no good, i will try the CD. i will then post back this weekend. thanks for your help. any other info would be much apreciated.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i just read this thread, (http://forums.techguy.org/t388271.html) and understand that a reinstall of windows WILL wipe out the HD.

so i guess i would like a little further explanation on how using the windows CD will save my data because now i'm a little confused.......????


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

No, that's fuzzy language.

There are two types of installs that we refer to. One is called a "clean" install, and the other a "re-install" or "overinstall".

If you have a Microsoft CD you can ALWAYS do the second. But not everyone has them. Most OEM vendors provide "recovery" CDs or partitions. Not all of these have the ability to just reinstall the operating system without wiping the drive.

To wipe the drive without using a "recovery" CD or partition you must FORMAT the drive first to wipe out existing data.

Dell has recently started to go the route of recovery CDs and partitions -- but this wouldn't apply to your model.

>>>

Watch the first screen as you attempt to boot; it will tell you what key to press to enter "setup". This is the BIOS. Look for an option to set the boot order there and make sure the a: drive is set first in the boot order.

If it is, make a new WinME boot floppy and try it. You should be able to reach a command prompt using it.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Rollin' Rog said:


> No, that's fuzzy language.
> 
> There are two types of installs that we refer to. One is called a "clean" install, and the other a "re-install" or "overinstall".
> 
> ...


i'm a little fuzzy as to which type of CD you think i should have - microsoft or recovery. i will check this weekend as to which one i actually have and post back.

>>>



Rollin' Rog said:


> Watch the first screen as you attempt to boot; it will tell you what key to press to enter "setup". This is the BIOS. Look for an option to set the boot order there and make sure the a: drive is set first in the boot order.
> 
> If it is, make a new WinME boot floppy and try it. You should be able to reach a command prompt using it.


i know how to change the BIOS setting so i will try the floppy. if i get the C prompt then what directions should i follow?

DELL tried to get me to the C prompt but it didn't work out.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'm pretty near a hundred percent certain that Dell supplied you with their "OEM" version of a Microsoft CD. Meaning you can do anything with it that you can do with a retail Microsoft CD, except install it on a non Dell system.

When you successfully boot with a boot disk, the first prompt you will see will be an a: prompt (that's the drive the floppy is on).

To get to a c: prompt, just enter:

*c:*

and there you should be, which is where you want to follow the Microsoft directions for trying System Restore. You want to try to load a different shell program than the normal Explorer -- in this case, progman.exe

If progman.exe fails to load, then you have more serious problems and I would recommend trying to reinstall Windows.

Now here's a catch: I don't know if you will be prompted for the ProductKey when re installing from the Dell CD. I expect you will. BEFORE you attempt to reinstall, we need to try to recover the ProductKey and I will give you directions for that if necessary. Dell may be able to help you as well with a default productkey of some kind.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

ok, so to be crystal clear, if i attempt a reinstall with the CD then i can NOT lose my data?

Also, how should i attempt to recover the productkey code?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

IF you can load "progman.exe" you can run *regedit* and look for it in the location:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion {ProductKey}

Also from a command prompt (again you need boot floppy for this) you can type:

C:\Windows\Command\Find /I "ProductKey" C:\Windows\System.dat

One little caveat. If you run Windows setup, pay attention to what folder it is going to reinstall windows in. Make sure it says c:\windows

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q142545/


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i guess if it doesn't say c:\windows i can change it?

also, what do you think about my first question about losing data?

thanks again. i am eager to try this process this weekend.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Yes you should see an option to select "other". 

As for data loss, there is no built in format option in Win9x/ME setup that would wipe the drive. You would have to specifically run a format command using the startup disk. In "NT" based systems, like XP -- yes, there is an option to do a "clean install" -- but you are fully forewarned that proceeding will cause loss of all current data.

Did you get the ProductKey?

Frankly, it wouldn't hurt to talk to Dell again about this, I'd try to get a different support tech since there seems to be a communications problem with the last one. You want to make it abundantly clear that you only want to do a "re-install" not a "clean" install. There could have been some misunderstanding there.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i won't have access to the computer until Saturday. Maybe i'll try to call Dell again on this issue and see if the next "tech" understands the idea of reinstall and see where that gets me. 

i can always follow the instructions you provided and see if i get somewhere. whatever happens i'll post back with the specifics of what happened. thanks.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Good luck. One reason why I would encourage another talk with Dell, is if you have any problems retrieving the ProductKey. I know I have two Dell systems and while I have no problems in retrieving the ProductKeys for them when I can load Windows, none was actually included with the Microsoft OEM CD that they provided and I'm not sure how their reinstall process handles it.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

ok, so i tried some stuff.......

i used my original disk labeled "basic rescue boot floppy" and brought up the following info...

Commands: 1) intro, 2)norton antivirus, 3)rescue recovery

i chose 3) where i got the following message.....

"rescue restores data your computer uses to startup and to access hard disks (CMOS info, Boot records, partition tables). This data was saved when you created your norton rescue boot disk. In the restore rescue info dialog box (next screen) damaged items are checked."

upon goin to the next screen.....

"Rescue did not detect any damage"

no items were checked and i could only exit the screen.

upon exiting and escaping i got a:\>
i then changed to c:\> but was unable to do anything from here.



i then found the CD from DELL that is labeled "For the Reinstallation of Windows Me"

by the way, i have my product key code. it is stuck to the side of the tower.

i ran the CD and it gave me this message....

"you already have an OS. This version of setup is designed for computers that do not yet have an OS. Recommended exit setup, reboot fromhard disk and run setup. If continue with this setup, config.sys and autoexec.bat files will be replaced by basic versions."

Choose "exit" or "continue setup to replace OS."

I exited.

comments please..........



one other thing is.....  when you told me to try the boot disk in post #18 and to change to C: from a: which is where i should follow the directions from the link, i don't quite understand this because the directions from the link tell me to start the computer using the Me startup disk and then chose "minimum boot" from the startup menu. it doesn't mention anything about starting at C:

i'm alittle fuzzy about this. help please.........


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The disk you are trying to use is not a Windows "boot disk". It is a Norton antivirus "rescue" disk used to run an antivirus scan.

Use a newly created startup disk for WinME. I gave some instructions for doing that from a setup file for WinME OEM boot disk at http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Do you want to try a "System Restore" or do you want to do a WinME "reinstall"?

If System Restore you should try the instruction on the Microsoft article for running System Restore from a command prompt.

If this succeeds you will be better off than doing a reinstall, since you will not have to reinstall all updates and Internet Explorer.

>>> is the ProductKey you copied 25 characters in length?

If you want to do a reinstall, boot with CD-ROM support. Put your WinME Microsoft CD in the drive and enter:

e:\setup

this assumes e: is the letter that will get assigned to the CD drive, usually one higher than normal

watch to see where it wants to install Windows to _ and make sure you choose c:\windows_

I am not all together sure what this is saying:



> "you already have an OS. This version of setup is designed for computers that do not yet have an OS. Recommended exit setup, reboot fromhard disk and run setup. If continue with this setup, config.sys and autoexec.bat files will be replaced by basic versions."
> 
> Choose "exit" or "continue setup to replace OS."


I don't think it's going to wipe the drive. Microsoft CDs don't do that. But it may try to install Windows into a new folder. You don't want that, choose c:\windows.

However you could run "setup" from the hard disk if you boot to the Progman shell using the Microsoft instructions. You can also do it from a bootdisk, but this would assume you have cabinet files in the location c:\windows\options\cabs

Then the command would be:

c:\windows\options\cabs\setup.exe


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## Shelly6 (Aug 5, 2005)

I remember the first time I tried this on a sad and sorry 98 machine. I was all prepared to lose everything on the HD, so imagine my surprise when it only overwrote the windows installation and left all other programs virtually intact! I have tried it on XP and made the mistake of letting it install to a different folder, thus having a new boot screen demanding to know which operating system I wanted to boot? The machine I have now had problems with XP SP2 and again I reinstalled 'over the top' with no difficulty. I guess it simply overwrites the corrupted files. Some time in the very near future I expect to have to reinstall ME on my daughter's computer and I will be most upset if it doesn't work exactly the same way. Not to mention how upset she will be if I lose all the garbage she has installed (after I told her not to).

BTW I note from your first post that you removed Norton. My husband's computer came with Norton and a recovery disc. We removed Norton and system restore ceased to function. The recovery cd then became totally useless. The only way to fix that is to get a copy of Windows.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Shelly6 said:


> BTW I note from your first post that you removed Norton. My husband's computer came with Norton and a recovery disc. We removed Norton and system restore ceased to function. The recovery cd then became totally useless. The only way to fix that is to get a copy of Windows.


i was using a floppy from Norton. it is not what i was suppose to use. the CD i have has nothing to do with Norton. it is for reinstalling windows. i am just really afraid of losing my data so i don't want to take chances unless i know i will not lose the info.

are you saying the CD you have is a Norton one or was it for Windows?


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Rollin' Rog said:


> The disk you are trying to use is not a Windows "boot disk". It is a Norton antivirus "rescue" disk used to run an antivirus scan.
> 
> Use a newly created startup disk for WinME. I gave some instructions for doing that from a setup file for WinME OEM boot disk at http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm.


your right. my bad. i will download the right info.



Rollin' Rog said:


> Do you want to try a "System Restore" or do you want to do a WinME "reinstall"?


whatever is the best way to get back to normal boot without losing data.



Rollin' Rog said:


> If System Restore you should try the instruction on the Microsoft article for running System Restore from a command prompt.
> 
> If this succeeds you will be better off than doing a reinstall, since you will not have to reinstall all updates and Internet Explorer.


i agree and would like to do this but i guess i first have to get the boot floppy to get me to a command prompt.



Rollin' Rog said:


> >>> is the ProductKey you copied 25 characters in length?


Yes.



Rollin' Rog said:


> If you want to do a reinstall, boot with CD-ROM support. Put your WinME Microsoft CD in the drive and enter:
> 
> e:\setup
> 
> ...


i need to be absolutely sure i won't lose the info. if your not quite sure about what the CD is telling me maybe i would be better off getting the data from the drive via a different method before tackling the job of restoring windows Me. thoughts?

i want to try the least evasive ways first. i'll get the boot floppy and post back. thanks again for all your time.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I honestly don't see any possibility of your losing data by trying a reinstall. Either it will stop with an error message about your needing to use an "upgrade" version of setup, or it will TRY to install itself into a new folder (don't let that happen). If it does the latter you still won't lose data -- you will just have a lot more work reinstalling old programs. But this can be "undone" by doing the install over again.

Nonetheless, I'd try the System Restore option. This just takes a little more initial work. You must follow the MS instructions to edit the system.ini file from a command prompt so as to load PROGMAN.exe as the shell rather than EXPLORER.exe.


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## Shelly6 (Aug 5, 2005)

PTNR said:


> i was using a floppy from Norton. it is not what i was suppose to use. the CD i have has nothing to do with Norton. it is for reinstalling windows. i am just really afraid of losing my data so i don't want to take chances unless i know i will not lose the info.
> 
> are you saying the CD you have is a Norton one or was it for Windows?


Sorry. I should have been more specific. The machine was bought new with windows Norton etc. pre-installed. It had a recovery _partition_ and a CD. The Recovery CD was only to restore the system to its original state, but it refused to work once the original Norton was removed.

System Restore won't work if you remove an original program like that, because there is no "earlier time" to restore to.

Because it did not have any original discs when he bought it, we had to get someone to copy a Windows XP disc. Luckily these store bought puters have the product key on a sticker on the case. That particular machine ended up getting a re-format, (and XP pro) only because there was nothing on it that we couldn't afford to lose. The disc you need is Microsoft Windows ME. If you are getting the message that you already have an OS, I guess you have the right one. I don't think overwriting config.sys and autoexec.bat is all that drastic - but I am still a beginner. However, it won't wipe your data.
I hope this is of some help.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Rollin' Rog said:


> I honestly don't see any possibility of your losing data by trying a reinstall. Either it will stop with an error message about your needing to use an "upgrade" version of setup, or it will TRY to install itself into a new folder (don't let that happen). If it does the latter you still won't lose data -- you will just have a lot more work reinstalling old programs. But this can be "undone" by doing the install over again.
> 
> Nonetheless, I'd try the System Restore option. This just takes a little more initial work. You must follow the MS instructions to edit the system.ini file from a command prompt so as to load PROGMAN.exe as the shell rather than EXPLORER.exe.


i used the floppy to boot successfully and followed the instructions to edit system.ini to load progman.exe.

After restarting, i got...... "error loading progman.exe - you must reinstall windows" followed by another message box..... "a required .DLL file, c:\windows\system\shlwapi.dll, was not found"

So i guess it's a bust. any other ideas from the command prompt?

if not, maybe i should try what was suggested before - to pull the HD and put it into my other computer to save my data then put it back and wipe the drive to start fresh.

at this point, what do you think i should try/do??????


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I didn't think shlwapi.dll was actually required for progman.exe since Explorer isn't involved.

At this point what I personally would do, and what I think you should do are really two different things. Personally I would futz around trying to determine just what it was that was stopping progman.exe. To rule out shlwapi.dll I would look for and copy a reasonably compatible version. But I don't think that's causing the "error loading progman.exe" -- this could be more serious and involve damaged fonts or other missing files.

So what I would really advise you to do is go for the normal Windows reinstall. If that fails you still have the option of doing a "clean install" after retrieving your data.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

Hi.
i'm back from an extended vacation as well as some other pressing issues involving an accident with one of my cars. I'm still chasing the other party's insurance company after almost two months. but enough about that.......

as per your last post, i will try the normal reinstall from my disk this weekend if you think that's prudent. based on the output i posted from the last time i tried the disk method i will allow "continue to replace OS". should that be ok?

on another note, if it doesn't work, how do you suggest i retrieve my data? should i remove the drive and install it in another computer? if so, i could really use some guidance to assure i do it correctly. i do have another dell running XP alongside the ME computer. i guess i could install it as a slave.....?

thanks again for all your help up to now. as always, i am very thankfull that someone is willing to help out in this challenging situation.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Go with the reinstall option and see what happens.

Yes the drive could be slaved. I'm not much of a hardware person -- but I too have a Dell. The manual that came with it shows how to install a second drive. You may also find instructions on their web site.

Dells normally use a "cable select" method of connection and you would want to pay attention to that.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i tried to reinstall from the Windows ME CD. Scandisk ran and came up eith about 4 damaged and unusable files which i chose for it to fix. it did so then came up with "scandisk encountered a data error while reading cluster 7975. scandisk will try to continue past this error." 

well, of course it got stuck at 5% complete for about 30 minutes and was unresponsive to the pause or exit functions so i rebooted and tried again several times with the same results.

i guess i can't get to the setup portion of the CD.

thoughts............??


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's a longshot, and not very promissing, but you can try running setup without scandisk.

Once you have booted with CD-ROM support and have the ME disk in the drive, from the a: prompt enter:

*e:\setup /is*

This assumes 'e' is the letter assigned the CD-ROM drive.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q186111/

Again, try to ensure that Windows is being reinstalled into the same directory. (c:\windows)

Also, you can opt not to have Scandisk fix anything and see what happens, if you didn't try that.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i believe my CD-ROM drive is "D". i will try to reinstall with scandisk switched off as you say and no, i didn't opt to not have scandisk fix anything.

on a positive note, over the weekend, i was able to save the contents of the hard drive to the drive in my other computer. so whatever happens now, i don't have to worry about the data being lost anymore.

i guess it's looking more and more like a complete reformat might be in the immediate future if this other stuff doesn't lead anywhere huh?

one other thing........ i've read about upgrades to XP in other threads and i wonder if i should do this in the case that i may have to start from scratch. what do you think the ramifications of such a move might be?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'm disinclined to recommend radical "upgrades". There are too many variables and the results, from what I've seen, are a mixed bag. If you have managed to save the data, then your best bet would be either a new system or a full install. 

You are already dealing with questionable hardware in any case. It's possible the drive itself may be bad.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i didn't mean upgrade to XP using ME as a starting point. i meant a clean full install of XP from scratch, (i guess that's what you mean by "new system", right???). i should have made that clearer. i have read about problems, as you say from "upgrading" from ME to XP so i don't want to do that.

also, when you say "full install" you mean of ME, right???

what leads you to believe the hard drive itself is bad and how could i check it? i know you said you weren't really a hardware guy but it worked ok as a slave in my XP system. if it is in fact "bad" i could get a new drive and have more space and faster performance but if i don't need to do that then i won't.

since i might have to start from scratch, i was thinking of installing a new full version of XP. what are your thoughts on using XP instead of ME on my system and what about compatability with programs i currently have?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Generally "program" compatibilty is not an issue. XP will run just about anything except some very old DOS games. You do underatand that with a "clean" full install you will have to reinstall all programs anyway.

In either case, when we refer to a "clean" install, whether that means XP or ME, it means the drive gets formatted prior to the install. XP does this automatically. In WinME it has to be done manually.

"Full" install means that you are not preserving current programs and data. There are special "upgrade" installs, usually a bit cheaper, which do that.

Frankly, given the cost of current OEM vendor systems (as little as 4-500, even from Dell) -- I would recommend going that route rather than purchassing a retail Microsoft XP CD to install. I would not think one would get one's money's worth on a computer with a CPU running less than 2 ghz and a 40 gig hard drive -- although the technical requirements of XP are 128 mb (they say 64, but I wouldn't install it with less than 256 mb). Hard drive space, well -- the install is going to take over 1 gig in itself and drives fill up fast.

I was looking at the Dell site for some hardware diagnostics for you, but was unsure whether what they had was compatible with your drive. You can check and see:

http://support.dell.com/support/top...ument?dn=1042510&l=en&langid=1&c=us&cs=&s=gen

Failing that, you would need to determine the actual Drive Vendor (Dell likes Seagate, so it might be one of theirs) -- and then go to that vendor's site and look for a non destructive diagnostic utility.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

the drive is actually a Western Digital. i'll check with them if you can't give me any specific ideas on testing it. But.... what leads you to believe it may be bad? when i ran diagnostics with the DELL rep on the phone with me a while back, i didn't get any hardware problems that showed up so DELL wanted to walk me through the original reinstall that they said would wipe my drive. this is when i came here.

if i only want to get back to where i was, with a working ME machine and nothing is really wrong with the hard drive then maybe i should just contact DELL again and have them walk me through the process and see what happens. what do you think?

as far as XP goes, we have a program where i work that offers OS and software with a license to use at home for little to no money. that's why i mentioned the option. if it didn't cost me anything, i wanted to get some feedback on whether it might make sense to do it given the trouble with ME as an OS. 
also, i wasn't sure if i could reinstall my software from the DELL cd's to a different OS than ME since that's what i thought they were originall designed for.

your definately right about the low cost of some sysems out there. you can get quite alot these days for around $500.

oh, one other thing... can't i clone my other hard drive which is running XP and use that on the ME machine since i know that that one works?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

On the question of hard drive cloning -- this is a question I can't really answer since the size of the drive may be more than your current BIOS supports -- something I don't know how to determine from a Dell system. But I doubt anything greater than 32 gigs would be fully seen, and perhaps not even that. 

If it comes to doing a "clean" install of WinME, well you have nothing to lose by trying XP first in that case and deciding for yourself if the compatibility or performance issues are signicant. 

The only reason why I supect a hard drive issue is that scandisk was unable to repair or get past a part of the drive. A hard drive utility may lock that part of the drive so scandisk doesn't even see it. Western Digital would be your best source.

On the question of the Dell drivers -- that's another stumbling block -- the WinME drivers will probably not work on XP. However XP does come with a lot more driver support than older versions of Windows -- and most standard stuff would be fully functional -- except perhaps for Sound Card and Video drivers -- but you could probably get the updates for those either from Dell or the original vendors.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

seems to me that my best option (read - easiest) is to try and reload ME, (with DELL's help), hope it all works then leave well enough alone for this circa 2000 machine. 

as far as cloning and how large a drive my BIOS supports.... i guess asking DELL directly will get me the answer so i know what size of drive i could use in case i had to get a new one.?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.... "A hard drive utility may lock that part of the drive so scandisk doesn't even see it."

what utility do you mean and if scandisk doesn't see it then wouldn't it just skip over it?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Your Dell tech may or may not know the answer, but would probably know if a BIOS update exists specfically for that reason. 

If Scandisk is hanging it is is probably because it is trying repeatedly to read clusters on the drive and failing. The Western Digital utility may lock this sector on the drive so Scandisk does not try to read it and nothing gets stored there. This could be a destructive process, so if you use the utility it would be best to do it before trying to reload ME in a clean install. The format utility may do the same thing -- I'm just not sure -- sometimes formats can hang for the same reason.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i'm still alittle fuzzy here.... the utility disk i used with the DELL rep was a DELL disk that came with the computer. are you saying that the disk is actually a WD utility? Supposedly the disk we used checked all hardware on the system not just the hard drive.

i would like to be clear as to how to check the hard drive appropriately. i thought the utility disk we initially used was enough to tell us that there were no hardware problems and that is why the DELL rep wanted me to do the reinstall at the time. are you recommending something different?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It may have checked the integrity of the drive -- I really don't know what all it did or how thorough it was. Your Dell tech will have to tell you that.

If you do a clean install, and have format or scandisk problems on the install -- you'll know soon enough, so you can probably just rely on the install process -- it just might not be able to repair some of the things that a manufacturer's utility might.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

gotcha....

i am going to try the clean install this weekend with DELL support. have you any idea how to get ahold of the manufacturer's utility or do i need to contact Western Digital directly?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You would probably want the data diagnostics for Windows or DOS (when you can't load Windows) offered here:

http://support.wdc.com/download/?cxml=n&pid=999&swid=3

But if you know the model number, type it in there and see if it narrows the selections available any.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i went ahead and did a clean install and everything seems to be running ok. i'm going to try to work on the computer some more over the next weekend just to test it out and i hope i won't have the blue screens of death that i used to.

i would like to post a hijackthis log so that someone could do a quick once-over.

anything else that i could provide for checking purposes? i would like to get the idea that things are working properly.

thanks for all your help so far.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'll be glad to check the Scanlog for you, although I wouldn't expect to see much of interest after a clean install. Do be sure to update Internet Explorer if you use that. There are cumulative updates to IE 6 as well.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i guess you mean to go onto the microsoft site and look for any updates? what version should i have if i'm up to date?


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## Nick Scott (Dec 11, 2001)

Just keep going back to the Windows update site until it tells you that no further updates are available.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Lol, yeah you can do it that way. There are undoubtably others that should be installed as well.

For updates specfic to IE, the primary site is here:
'
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/security/default.mspx/


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

ok i'm all updated but i seem to have problems shutting down. the problem was there before the updates. i get the windows blue screen of death and the ERROR: OE: 00BF: 826CB9F0, also got ERROR: OE: 00C7: 826CB9F0. Can't shut down normally. please help.

here is a Hijack This log;

Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
Scan saved at 4:06:19 PM, on 11/6/2005
Platform: Windows ME (Win9x 4.90.3000)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSGSRV32.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MPREXE.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711\KB891711.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\mmtask.tsk
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\RESTORE\STMGR.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\DEVLDR16.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\EXPLORER.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\RPCSS.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\TASKMON.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SYSTRAY.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\ZONE LABS\ZONEALARM\ZLCLIENT.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\GRISOFT\AVG FREE\AVGCC.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\GRISOFT\AVG FREE\AVGEMC.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\GRISOFT\AVG FREE\AVGAMSVR.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SCMAIN.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WMIEXE.EXE
C:\PTN\HIJACK THIS\HIJACKTHIS.EXE

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.comcast.net/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyServer = :0
F1 - win.ini: run=hpfsched
O2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\PROGRAM FILES\ADOBE\ACROBAT 5.0\READER\ACTIVEX\ACROIEHELPER.OCX
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHELPER.DLL
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSDXM.OCX
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ScanRegistry] C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TaskMonitor] C:\WINDOWS\taskmon.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PCHealth] C:\WINDOWS\PCHealth\Support\PCHSchd.exe -s
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SystemTray] SysTray.Exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Zone Labs Client] C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVGFRE~1\AVGCC.EXE /STARTUP
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_EMC] C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVGFRE~1\AVGEMC.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG7_AMSVR] C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVGFRE~1\AVGAMSVR.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [devldr16.exe] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\devldr16.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [*StateMgr] C:\WINDOWS\System\Restore\StateMgr.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [TrueVector] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE -service
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [KB891711] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711\KB891711.EXE
O4 - Startup: Stardust Screen Saver Control 2003.lnk = C:\WINDOWS\SCMain.exe
O12 - Plugin for .spop: C:\PROGRA~1\INTERN~1\Plugins\NPDocBox.dll


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The scanlog is very basic except for this item, which you could test by running *msconfig* and unchecking it under the startup tab. You may have to start in Safe Mode to ensure that the shutdown from msconfig is normal.

O4 - Startup: Stardust Screen Saver Control 2003.lnk = C:\WINDOWS\SCMain.exe

The other potential issue might be ZoneAlarm, which can cause some people problems. You should be able to test ZoneAlarm by unchecking its two entries in msconfig > startups. But sometimes it is necessary to uninstall it.

One way to test shutdown problems is to open up the Close Programs Window before shutting down (ctrl-alt-del). Manually "end task" each process there EXCEPT Explorer, before finally shutting down. By experimenation you may be able to find the one that is hanging things up.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i will do some selective testing as you have suggested and post back. thanks.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

well, i tried, but i can't get two consecutive proper shutdowns. i uninstalled both zone alarm and the screen saver program but still no luck. i got it to shut down normally with many attempts using various combinations, but when i went back to recreate what i had just done, i got the blue screen over and over again. this is very time consuming and frustrating.

any further ideas?? thanks again.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I don't know if you have tried this, but go to start > run, and enter:

*scanreg /fix*

A reboot will be required to complete the operation.

Also check AVGs options, and make sure there is not some setting that does a scan on shutdown.

I'm also not quite sure what you mean by saying you cannot recreate what you have done. If you use selective startup in msconfig, the choices you made will stay that way until you change them again.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i will try your suggestions. 

what i meant was that my trial and error was using task manager to selectively shut down running processes. then when i shut down the computer successfully(through start button) without the blue screen and went back to try to shut the same processes down using task manager again, i would get the blue screen upon trying to shut the computer down through the start button.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Ok, we need to figure out whether the blue screen is associated with a particular process you are terminating or it is random.

I would also recommend "clean booting" using msconfig to disable startups and see if you can isolate it that way. You may have to work from Safe Mode in using msconfig.


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## PTNR (Jun 20, 2005)

i'll do some more testing and post back.


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