# another linux instialtion question



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i realize many people have asked questions about the instilation of linux on a winxp machine, and i did read up on them but most of it didnt apply to me. i am currently downloading mandrake linux community 10.1. i have winxp sp2. 200gb hdd. i havent got partition magic and i wouldnt have a clue what nfts means. so in other words i need some assistance.

once i download the three madrake cds and burn the .iso files, can i just install from boot up? (i doubt it could be that simple) but what is the easiest way to install it... thanx so much!


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i just found out i can get a copy of partiton magic 8 from a friend. i guess that will probably help. but could u still give me the required advice? cheers


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

A Mandrake needs about 5Gb plus a swap partition 2 to 3 times your physical memory. So make two partitions 5 and 2 Gb should do most of the cases. If you use Partition Magic choose Ext2 or Ext3 partition. Instruct Mandrake to use them and it will be automatically formatted during the installation.

My hard drive has 25Gb for XP and every Linux is housed in a 5Gb partition. There is no need to allocate all the space. You can run both XP and Mandrake perfectly with the bulk of the 200Gb "unallocated". My current 200Gb has 28 partitions.

NTFS is New Technology Filing System (or something similar) used mainly by XP, Win2000 and OS2. Current Linux can read it and does not write it officially. 

After you install Mandrake you should find it boot Windows for you too.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok, i think i understand what ur saying, can u just run me through how to use partion magic to set up these partitions? so i take it, i install PM onto my pc and through windows set up these Ext2 or Ext3 partitions? (what does that mean exactly?) and make these partitons 5gb big? (ok, i think i just confused myself :S)


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

When you create a partition you need to specify the type of files the partition will be used to store. Actually it is just a type number stored with a partition. Type 6 is for FAT16, Type 7 is for NTFS. This type number allows a operating system to decide the method of reading it.

Ext2 and Ext3 I think have the same type number of 83. Linux is powerful because all the PC files types are accommodated, probably about 100 types!.

For example Type 16 is hidden FAT16 and Type 17 is hidden NTFS. This allow a user to have several Windows in the same hard drive and only the unhided partition is operating. Such is the power of Linux.

Also a PC can have either 4 primary partitions or 3 primary plus an extended partitions. Subject to the space left you can create as many logical partitions as you like within an extended partition.

My suggestion in your case is to have the 1st primary for XP, say 25 Gb, 2nd and 3rd primary partitions each 25Gb for private data storage and the rest 125Gb as an extended partition which is just a boundary. The first logical partition created will be known as hda5 as hda4 is reserved for denote extended partition but it cannot be used in Linux.

A good strategy is to use hda5 as the swap partition because one can always remember it. Thereafter 5Gb for hda6 for Mandrake. The rest for future use.

You can have a look at the two hard disks arrangement of  this bootloader menu that boots 30 operating systems.

The partitions of its first disk are listed below. The id is the partition type number. You can get Mandrake to list yours by typing "fdisk -l".

The earlier parts of my disk has 10Gb for a Linux while the latter part has been standardised with 5Gb.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disk /dev/hda: 203.9 GB, 203928109056 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 24792 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 1 3187 25599546 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda2 3188 4403 9767520 83 Linux
/dev/hda3 4404 5619 9767520 83 Linux
/dev/hda4 5620 24792 154007122+ 5 Extended
/dev/hda5 5620 5984 2931831 82 Linux swap
/dev/hda6 5985 7200 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda7 7201 7808 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda8 7809 9024 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda9 9025 9632 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda10 9633 10848 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda11 10849 11456 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda12 11457 12672 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda13 12673 13280 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda14 13281 14496 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda15 14497 15104 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda16 15105 16320 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda17 16321 16928 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda18 16929 18144 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda19 18145 18752 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda20 18753 19968 9767488+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda21 19969 20576 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda22 20577 21184 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda23 21185 21792 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda24 21793 22400 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda25 22401 23008 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda26 * 23009 23616 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda27 23617 24224 4883728+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda28 24225 24792 4562428+ 83 Linux


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

Defrag windows
Run checkdisk
Backup all your important data
Dont install PM on your computer; create the 2 floppies instead or boot from the PM cd.
Resize the XP partition to make room for Linux.
Dont create any new partitions.
Start the Linux installation
At the part about partitioning choose to use the unallocated space while preserving windows.
Install bootloader on the MBR.
HTH
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok i think im starting to follow. so this allocated space for each os doesnt contain my data? but it does contian the programs? i have used around 40gb on space so far on winxp, data and programs... or so i just leave this 40gb as one partition? and create a 5gb one for linux?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

A partition is exactly what it says. It is empty until you install or store something in it.

It is a good idea to separate the personal data from the operating system as the latter is installable and doesn't need regular backups.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

so ur saying i should save all my data onto anothe parition?...
ok just so im keeping a running idea on what to do:
i back up all my data to one partition.
i create a new partition (5gb) for linux
i creat another partition for windows to stay on (25gb)? 
is that correct so far?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i had a little look on the net about installing linux. and i found this guide http://doc.mandrakelinux.com/MandrakeLinux/100/en/Discovery.html/index.html
in that it says that the linux install will partition my drives during instilation. do u think that just by following that guide i can get it all sorted so i dont have to use PM and mess around with partitons?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

You need unallocated space available for Linux to partition.

Windows when installed grabs all the hard disk space for its own use. The Partition Magic is used to squeeze some unallocated space back.

You can ask PM or Linux to partition the space but not all Linux can squeeze a fully allocated hard drive for space. However I think Mandrake does allow resizing but there are limitations like having the partition suitably defragged first, as suggested by lynch.

Just create a primary partition 5Gb, using native Linux Ext2 file system (available in PM) for your first Linux then say a logical partition of 2Gb as a swap partition.

As a beginner and with PM it is better to have the partitions created first and tell Linux to get on with it.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok, well i finally have finished downloading the three linux cds. ill have a go installing it tomorrow when i have some more time. and if i have any problems ill get back in touch. wish me luck, thanx


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i have just installed PM 8 on my comp from my friends cd... its an odd install. anyhow i oppened it up and had a looksie. it has options to creat partitions while running the program in windows. it also has an option for creating partitions specifically for a new OS. is it ok to do this partitioning stuff this way?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i just had a look through the users guide and it says it will automatically set up the parition specifically for the os to be installed. i think that sounds like an easy idea for a newbie such as myself... do u think that would be ok?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

The partition specifically for the OS is normally a primary partition. A PC allows only a primary partition to boot but Linux is so powerful that it can be installed in a non-os partition (i.e. a logical partition) and still boots. PM is a WIndow product and all Windows must be booted from a primary partition. A Linux boots by having its bootloader in the MBR and itself can be anywhere.

In conclusion it doesn't matter but my earlier post has already suggested to you to create a 5Gb primary partition for Linux and a 2Gb logical partition for swap.

You need to read my previous posts on the primary partitions as well.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok i understand what ur saying. so i should use pm and create one partiton of 5gb and another for 2gb. these partitons are secondary partitons? and have file format of ext2 or ext3? then i just boot the linux install cds and install into those partitons? do i need to specify that linux goes in driver (D:?) and the swap file goes in (E:?). i guess then i should make another parition just for data (F:?), and im thinking that then both OS can access such data, such as documents, movies, music? what about programs? i know u need to run WINE for linux, but do i need to install the programs on the linux partition or can they be acces by linux from the windows partiton, or should i create another partition for programs to be shared like the data partition? 
i appologise for all the questions, i just want to make sure im 100% on everything before i start messing with the comp.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

There is no secondary partition. Only 

(1) primary partitions (a maximum of 4), 
(2) one extended partition, formed by giving up one primary partition, which is just a border marking the all the "remaining" space in the hard drive and 
(3) logical partitions, as many as space permits, which are linked from one to another in a continuous chain.

As soon as an extended or logical partition is formed no more primary partition can be allowed. Thus one can have no primary partition in a hard disk or a primary partition is removed its empty space cannot be joinned up with an extended partition.

Linux uses a different naming system for a hard disk. It starts with "hd". The first bootable disk is hda. The second in the cable is hdb. The two hard disks if available in a second IDE cable are called hdc and hdd. SATA disks are call sda, sdb etc.

Thereafter the partition is numbered. Thus your C: drive in Window is likely to be called hda1. Therefore if you are doing it as I suggested your second primary partition will be hda2. As soon as you create a logical partition it will be called hda5 and all the rest of the hard disk space is assigned as an extended partition called hda4 (or hda3 if it hasn't been used), which is a boundary only and not usable. 

Generally a good Linux will have most of the programs you need and it is seldom that you need more but you can certainly add extra modules. 

Windows can't read any Linux partition. Linux can read all Windows partitions but doesn't write on NTFS partitions but you can use Linux read off files from NTFS partition and write on a FAT partition.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

alright. so ill just create 2 logical partitons for linux hda2 and hda3 both with file system ext2 or ext3. and ill create a 3rd logical partiton for data hda4 with a fat32 file system? does that sound good? and i wont worry about programs as u suggest.


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

You dont need a 2 GB swap! He's got a GB of ram already. The swap will probably never get touched. I'd make it no bigger than 512MB.
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

so lynch, i just need a 5gb partiton for linux os and a 512mb swap partiton not a 2gb one?


----------



## tsunam (Sep 14, 2003)

one could argue that you don't even need the swap area at all but yep 5gb partition and 512 megs of space for the swap.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I am mindful of the fact one day I may add more memory to the box. Some distros do insist on having a swap. 

The round unit of Gb has its advantage of making it easier for rebuilding one's partition table because it is easier to remember. I had a disk that was trashed by a couple distros attempting to realign its geometry and I have to rebuild it 3 times. I got the partitions all standardised in 5Gb and it is no problem in deleting the bad ones and re-creating the good paritions. I didn't lose anything in the end.

I think the hard disk is the States are being retailed at 1.5Gb/$. In UK it is 2.5Gb/£.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok so now that i think i feel somewhat confident. ill go back up all my data. scan disk and defrag the whole hd. create a logical partiton of about 100gb for my data. a 5gb logical partiton for linux, a 512mb logical partiton for the swap file and leave the rest for windows. sounds good? if so just say this will be fine, otherwise i may get more confused! haha, thanx for all ur help.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok well im just gonna go ahead with the plan i suggested above, if i have problems ull be hearin from me again real soon! haha. i think it should work :S. late


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok well, i have done my back ups, scaned and defreaged and partitoned! are you proud? i have set up a 5gb ext2 partiton, a 512mblinux swap partiton and a 75gb parition for data. now im gonna go ahead with the linux instillation!


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok now i gots problems. i put cd1 into the drive, rebooted, and told the comp to boot from cd drive. it loads the oppening window for linux instillation, when i press entre to start install, it then throws up a black screen with no sign of pc activity. when i got into the install options from the welcome and try linux install (graphical install) it does the same thing. so i triued it again and tried installing with text only. it goes through lots of lines before it throws up line "vesafbrobe of vesafb0 failed with error -6"
a few more lines go and then it gets to process "Initializing Crptographic Api" 2-3 more lines and then it stops... what iis going on, and how do i fix the *******?


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

tsunam said:


> one could argue that you don't even need the swap area at all but yep 5gb partition and 512 megs of space for the swap.


And you would be right but some applications do look for swap so it's a good idea to have it.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

bigavvystyle,

Your Mandrake has been trying to fit a display driver for your screen and the operation failed. Thus you may not be able to proceed with the graphic install. Normally you should be able to get away with the text mode install and edit the configuration file to get it to work. Out of the 26 distros I installed I have to do this type of re-configuration for about 5 to 6 of them. Not a big deal but you need to know to use the editor and its commands. The standard one I use is vi, available in all LInux, and you can get instructions from the Internet.

Just install as much Mandrake as you can to see if you get it working in command mode with the kernel successfully installed first. 

What is your graphic card manufacturer? The standard generic is "vesa", "nv" and I have used "radeon" too. Genernally one of them will fit, at least get you going. We can tell you how to edit it and which file to edit.

It looks like to be a long haul.

One of the quick way out is to get several distros, especially the Live CDs, and try them out before committing an installation. Knoppix 3.6 is known to be pretty good at kicking start most of the hardware. It will not ask you even one question from start to boot-up to a full system.

For self preservation I wouldn't pull any hair out of my head for one distro if it is misbehaving. There are loads of obedient ones around the corner.

The Mandrake 9 in my box was installed without a hicup but I did have to intervene when I put the version 10 in.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

thanx for ur reply. i have an ati redeon 9800+ video card. ill search about that command line thing. what is a live cd? ok ill go find a copy of Knopix, i gather it is easy to use for a newbie to the linux stuff? i dont care which distro. i just had a friend who showed me around mandrake 10. ill see how we go. thanx again


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

wait... i just did a search about the linux editor and comands and all, and thats somewhat fine, but how do i get into the editor to actually use these commands?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I once commented should Window die one day one of the knives that stab into its heart would be a Linux Live CD.

A Linux Live CD is a full Linux system that runs on a CD without the need of being installed into any hard drive. Better ones come with a hard disk installer. If you manage to get Knoppix 3.4 upward, load it up, click the terminal and drop into the command mode, type su to become the "root" user (to get privileage as an administrator) and type "knoppix-installer". You can time the clock. This is a full Linux system with many features superior to XP but can be loaded in 5 minutes flat without the need of asking you for a driver or a question. A knoppix CD can also be used to clone a XP partition and make it bootable too.

Redeon 9800+ is a high end video card and may not be supported by older kernels of Linux. You should be able to run it using the generic driver "radeon" which is the one I use for my ATI radeon 9200SE.

You can only use the vi editor after the kernel has been successfully loaded. In such case you are in an equivalent of the DOS mode. The file that tells you what is wrong with the failed video is in /var/log/XFree86.0.log (I think) and the file that you have have to edit is /etc/X11/XF86Conf-4 or /etc/X11/xorg.cof (check directory first as the name can be slightly different between distros).

Basically you use "ls" to look at the directories first, repeat the command with up arroew key, position the "ls" and replace it with "vi" to edit the exact file. To view the file you use "more" or "less" like "more /etc/X11/xorg.conf".


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok, so knoppix 3.6 is a live cd version of linux which can be installed onto ur comp. i have just searched out a bitttorrent download and ill do it now. it is only 700mb in size, and the mandrake cds (3 of them) were over 2gb. what is the real difference then?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

wait, whats this kernal business, i dont understand the concept being a windows boy.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

You should find Mandrake supplies also the programs in source form enabling you to customise the system later on. The source programs for knoppix have to be download from their site if you want them.

A Linux has 3 distinct parts to me. A bootloader that control booting, a kerenl that control/interface the computer resources for you and the Graphic User Interface.

The kernel is equivalent to DOS in Windows but it is probably 100 times more powerful. It operates only in command prompt. A good Linux (well written and developed) will give you the kernel back if it experience difficulty in reaching the GUI stage. An experienced Linux user can then edit the nesccessary files to fire up the GUI manually.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok so how do i actually access this kernal to tell it what video card i have, and thus can go ahead with the install. or should i try knoppix instead?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

By the sound of it you haven't managed much with Mandrake. Cut your loss and concentrate on Knoppix first. You can go back to try Mandrake later after you pick up a bit of experience with Knoppix.

May be you appreciate my 5Gb/distro advice now.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok sounds like a plan!


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

Hello again. well i finished downloading the Knoppix live cd .iso, burnt it and booted it. but one small problem, when i try and boot it, it crashes!. it opens the boot window, and i type in knoppix into the command line, it starts loading, checking all the hardwear, it gets to 100% and then it stops doing anything... maybe my computer isnt very linux friendly...


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

It's running everything from ram. You may have to wait a bit for it to get started. How long did you let it run before deciding that it had crashed?
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

umm, on 3 occasions... the longest i gave was 2-3minutes...


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

What version of Knoppix are you using? Current one is 3.6

The ATI Radeon 9800 is a top end video card and I do expect older versions of Linux may have a problem with it. In fact you should prepared for a long haul. I orginally started my Linux adventure on a machine with a nVidia 5200FX. I managed to boot 16 Linux but failed with 2. Instead of acquiring a driver for it I moved the Linux distros to a older machine with an ATI Radeon 9200 and ran into a lot less video problem. So there is a price to pay for a technology too new to Linux. Having said that I am sure I came across a few distros displaying support for the ATI 9800 when I examine its XF86Config-4 files. Thus I am hopeful that you will get there.

Try press just the return to boot knoppix (without typing anything, as I never did).

Now my guess is that you are half way there and should have a kernel. Knoppix may not have hung. It is there but could not communicate with you through the graphic interface because of the video card problem. 

Press crtl+alt+F1 should allow you to see Knoppix's bash shell or command prompt. Read my previous post to navigate in bash shell and tell us what you have found. If the kernel is live and kicking you can just editing the XF86Config-4, save it, type "startx" to fire up the desktop and until it works.


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

saikee said:


> The kernel is equivalent to DOS in Windows but it is probably 100 times more powerful. It operates only in command prompt.


 The kernel is responsible for resource allocation, low-level hardware interfaces, security, etc. It's the basic part of any OS. It is *not* equivalent to DOS because DOS is an OS which has it's own kernel. It's the underlying component of the OS wether you run in command line or GUI mode.


> A good Linux (well written and developed) will give you the kernel back if it experience difficulty in reaching the GUI stage.


 Do you mean it will give you the shell(CLI) back if X fails? It will return you to a CLI if X fails.


> An experienced Linux user can then edit the nesccessary files to fire up the GUI manually.


 Yep.

lynch


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

lynch,

Thanks for pointing out my loose association with the kernel and the Command Line Interfaces (CLI) shell. I shall refer to it as BASH shell from now on.


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

No problem. I wont even mention how long it took for _me_ to figure all that out when I started using Linux. 
bigavvystyle, I think you should give us a list of what hardware you're running. It'd be a big help. The Radeon 9800 should work.
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok. 

AMD64 3000+ processor
1024mb ram
9800+ Radeon 
Creative Audigy ZS
200GB HDD
Pioneer DVD-/+RW DVR-108 
LiteOn DVD-Rom SOHD 167-T
TV capture card (cant remember specs).. its HDTV
externally:
LG Flatron L1710S LCD monitor
Logitec MX Duo (Wireless keyboard and mouse)
Canon MP390 (all in one office centre USB)
Netgear RP614v2 Cable/ADSL router (Ethernet)

thats everything! hope this assists


----------



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

saikee said:


> You should find Mandrake supplies also the programs in source form enabling you to customise the system later on. The source programs for knoppix have to be download from their site if you want them.
> 
> A Linux has 3 distinct parts to me. A bootloader that control booting, a kerenl that control/interface the computer resources for you and the Graphic User Interface.
> 
> The kernel is equivalent to DOS in Windows but it is probably 100 times more powerful. It operates only in command prompt. A good Linux (well written and developed) will give you the kernel back if it experience difficulty in reaching the GUI stage. An experienced Linux user can then edit the nesccessary files to fire up the GUI manually.


You're close, but that's actually a bit of falsehood.

The kernel is not what you interact with Infact, if linux is running properly, the kernel should be the least of your worries. When Linux boots, the first thing it does, after setting it self up for that box is call a program called "INIT", which start up the other programs. the login prompt is a program, appropriately, named login. Once you give your credentials to login, it spawns a shell, which allows you to interact with the system. In the CLI, all interaction with the system is through either another program, or through the shell (usually in linux bash, however there are others (csh, ksh, sh, zsh to name a few)).

When you start a GUI, you first are starting a program called X which is part of the X11 windowing system.

your system is layered, looking a bit like this: 

```
Graphical Program
WindowManager (kwin, sawfish, openbox)
Desktop environment (Should you have one. KDE, gnome, XFCE etc.)
X (The windowing system program. This is what draws the screen)
The shell (However, the shell has no part in the actuall graphics, however, is used to start things)
login
init
the kernel
```
Just a bit of clarification there. A good bash HOWTO, http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html

Edit: Looks like lynch beat me to this one.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

im thinking of giving this linux thing a rest. im getting way too confused to understand this stuff. i think itd be easyer to learn it once i have a linux distro running then trying to understand this without it. ill give it sometime. maybe by then my hardware will be supported, or i can find a distro that already does. thanx for all ur help. if u have any other suggestions im all ears.


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

There are 2 releases coming out: SUSE 9.2 (already shipping) and Mandrake 10.1. Both of them should give you what you need. They both have LiveCDs you can try before you install. They actually recommend running thier LiveCDs first before you install the real thing.
MandrakeMove 
SUSE 9.2 LivEval 
Give those a try when you can and see how you like them.
Whiteskin, I always like reading your take on things.  
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

well i tried mandrake 10.1 and thats what didnt work! im now downloading SUSE. is it easy to learn? which link on the mandrake site is the livecd version? all i see is full os. i think... or are they all live cds...


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

Oops, sorry . I forgot you tried that. SUSE has a 64bit version on the CD I think. That's what Mandrake may have been lacking.
lynch


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

whiteskin,

Good explanation. May not do beginner bigavvstyle any good but I can surly use a refresher course.

I may take this opportunity to ask advice here.

I notice some distros are having difficulties to be installed at the rear end of a 200Gb hard drive. As an example I have an older version of Kanotix (2004.7 and a variant of Knoppix) installed at partition No. 19, at about 150 to 155 Gb position of the hard drive successfully but the later version refuses to be installed there. I initially tried to persuade it to go to Partition 25 but it dropped into partition 2 instead (without telling me!) and wipe my Fedora C2 there. When I copied it back to hda19 (by tar command) I can chroot to it and run it but it will not accept a grub-install to place the bootloader at hda25. Without the bootloader at hda25 I can't chainload it out from another Linux.

It may be just a bug in the latest version (2004.9) but its Grub (0.95) is current and doesn't afraid of big drive in other distros.

My question is which layer is responsible for not stopping me from booting at rear end of a large hard disk? The Grub or Lilo error is special device (e.g. /dev/hda19) not found.

I have already had both Grub and Lilo from a few distros (Slackware 10, Blag, Tiny Sofa, Suse 9.1, Xandros) installed in the rear of a hard drive (beyond the 137Gb barrier).


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

just an observation... aswell was the linux *** sticky i think we need to create a full install guide with all manner of situations accomidated for. obviously i cant be the only one with these problems. just another question... linux can read NFTS but cant write to it. but linux can write to a fat32. i take it that linux can read a fat32. so for my shared data drive i should have it file system of fat32 not NFTS like i already set it up. i may delete the partitons and then reconfigure it at a later date when i can isntall linux. once i download the SUSE 9.2 live cd can i then install it onto my comp or do i have to download something different?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

Faq!!!!! Sorry Jeeze I Didnt Realize That! That Was Reallu Poor Form!!! Sorry!


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i dont believe it! IM RUNNING LINUX! YAY!
i figured out why i couldnt get knoppix to load. when i pressed enter at the boot command it was loading version 2.4
so i went to the boot options and told it to boot what ever version this is 3.6 and it worked! yahoo! im really excited!!!


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

bigavvstyle,

Glad that you got it at the end.

For NTFS to FAT you can get Partition Magic to convert it for you.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

yes im excited! now that im back in Windows (it feels like home...sadly) anyhow. can i install knoppix onto the harddrive? or should i wait for SUSE 9.2 to download, and can i install that to the harddrive? ill need to fix the partitons iv got set up. ill change the linux swap partiton to 1 gb. just incase, its no big deal using a little extra. and ill convert my data drive to fat32. then i can rearange all my files! i kinda wish i knew what i was doing before i loaded everything onto the comp! but ill manage. just out of curiosity, how easy is it to reload winxp onto my comp? i have the original disc and the confromation serial number... just if i ever need to reformat... (i know not a linux question) but back to linux, i have to say linux is pretty sexy. its got so many programs. but just having a quick look around it looks to have alot of the basic stuff i want/need. i now understand a little more about using the root comands and all now that i can load and see the root shell or what ever its called. so i can now use ur advise and put it in action while in linux and not getting confused in windows! thanx for all ur help saikee and lynch.


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

For installing knoppix 3.3 and below the command is "knx-hdinstall"

For installing knoppix 3.4 and newer into a hard disk the command is "knoppix-installer"

In both cases you need to drop into Bash shell, type "su" to become the root user and just type the above command.

A XP re-installation will require you to re-activate the software with MS. You should shrink your Window to the right size and avoid a reinstalation if possible. Leave some unallocated space for future use because knoppix is just one of many nice Linux around.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

oh ok i think that makes sense. altho i was running knoppix 3.6 when i loaded it. anyhow.
i just did a look at the MandrakeSoft website, i searched for details on the support of my graphics card. the ATI Radeon 9800Pro is supported by mandrake linux 10.0. it lists it as AMD64bit arcitechture. but it doesnt list AMD64bit processors. im guessing this may be the problem with mandrake? altho it doesnt have search options for 10.1. so i cant be 100% sure. i then looked at the SUSE website in detail and im quite impressed! i think SUSE looks and sounds better than Mandrake. i am 45% done downloading the bootable DVD. what are the instructions for installing SUSE 9.2 from DVD? thanx again


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

If you are doing it right you should have a 5Gb partition to store each one, regardless if it is working or not, without the need of wiping any of the distros off. When your Linux knowledge grows you can "recue" the ones that failed in the first trial.

A Linux Live CD like knoppix or any installed Linux can get you into any of the distros to do rescue operations, as long it has been installed. There is a command called "chroot" for you change root to another Linux of your choice. We can give you directions when you are ready.

In installing any distro it is better, my personal opinion, to have a partition ready for it and instruct the distro to get on with it. Never allow a distro to format the whole disk, only the partition it has nominated by you. I partition my disk with regular 5Gb partitions and fill them up progressively. Other instructions for installation is try to understand the question every time you are asked by a distro.

You will find some distros can cope better with your hardware than the others. By checking the drivers they are using you can make other Linux to do the same if they happen to use the same kernel with the same driver set for the GUI.

Since you are new to Linux the biggest problem is the bootloader. When you install the first one of the distro just let it take over the MBR. It should boot the Linux plus your XP automatically.


----------



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

lynch said:


> Whiteskin, I always like reading your take on things.


Thanks. You're a pretty good read yourself.

bigavvystyle, an architecture is really the same thing as processor types when talking about amd_64s. (there are no others). The other major form of architecture is the x86 series, which includes all intell processors since the 286, and many other compatable processors (via, cyrix, etc.)


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok i understand. i just fired up SUSE 9.2 and its very nice. i think ill like it very much. how do i go about installing it from the live dvd tho?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Don't know this one. When I started I bought only one Linux and it was Suse because it came with 2 DVDs, 5CDs and two manuals and I was desparately in need of a book to read. It appears the Live CD version of Suse may not be installable but I coundn't be certain on your DVD version.

So by now you should at least have knoppix installed?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i just check it, and it apears that u cant install SUSE 9.2 from the live cd, ill have to download suse 9.1 and install it that way. no i havent installed knoppix yet. i think ill use SUSE as it looks a little better (i think). i need to re organise my partitons before i install anything and i havent had time to just yet (just finished the school year) but now ill have heaps of time to play around. is there any risk of damaging the hdd by partitoning?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

im now trying to download suse 9.1 from the site, but the personal cd .iso is only 700mb. why is this so much small than the live DVD? it says i can download SUSE directly from the ftp server but that sounds more messy, id rather have the cd. so u think this would be ok? (downloading the 700mb suse 9.1 install cd)


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I think a partitioned hard drive should last longer because the read/write head has less to travel if its working is restricted to a smaller portion of the hard disk. I had one over 40 partitions. My current one has 28 partitions (200Gb) because I am using a second disk (80Gb) for accommodate Linux distros that are afraid of large size. Many don't want to cross the 137Gb barrier.

For distro if you are supplied with more than 1 or 2 CDs then the additional CDs contain the same programs in source form for you to customise.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

oh ok, that makes sense. well ill finish downloading suse 9.1 .iso burn it, reconfigure my partitons and then install. i just played with the live dvd again, and i really do like it, i think i could get use to linux easy. i just gotta learn what all the programs do. how much of the 5gb partiton will the install take up?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

another question, is it of any benefit in buying the full version of the linux os that SUSE or Mandrake offer? i kinda think it defeats the purpose of an open source program, altho i understand they say its for special drivers and such...


----------



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

No, it's mainly for support. When one is beginning, it may be wise to buy, however, after a while, one realizes one could do the exact same thing, free. (With the exception of drivers, however, if they are binary only drivers, there is a high chance they may not work with your next kernel. Linux doesn't like keeping the ABI stable).


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

well iv done it! i have SUSE Linux 9.1 installed on my comp, with a 5gb ext2, 1gb linux swap and a 75gb FAT32 partitions ontop of my Winxp! yeah its good! i have a few questions now. i have cable internet... but i cant seem to be able to use the internet in linux. when it came to the internet test it wouldnt work but thats obvious because it doesnt know the login details. so i (re)connected the modem through my router wich logs in automatically, but still linux didnt access the internet. so how do i manually configure linux to do so. i have the instilation cds that came with my modem that the ISP tech guy used when installing it all on my then XP only PC. im not sure tho if those cds are specifically for xp, altho id imagine theyd be multi platform... is it worth trying to use those cds whilst in linux and install the login client? but even so i dont need the login client in xp if im running the modem through my router... any suggestions? 

another question is how can i change the mouse sensitivity whilst in linux, i find the mouse to be over sensetive when i use linux... if i change the linux settings does that alter my xp ones, and vise versa?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok heres an update. i jumped onto my ISP's webiste www.bigpond.com (Telstra Bigpond Internet Australia). and they do not support linux. thus the cds i have wont. i went to www.ozcableguy.com and found a few links to people who have made an alernative Bigpond login client that is supported for linux. it doesnt say they support SUSE but they mention redhad mandrake and a few others: here are the related links:
http://bpalogin.sourceforge.net/index.php
http://linux.tkdack.com/node.php?id=9
http://www.metrak.com/OaH/OaH-Linux.html
anyhow, if u guys think that using that login client through linux is the best way ill try it. but if i can get my router to login automatically, then i can just configure linux to work with this? if so how...


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i also found this:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/LinuxRouter/setup.html
that kind of makes sense to me... but id still like some advice and direction


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

Have you tried to configure your network card in YaST2? It's under Network Devices. If your ISP uses dhcp then the main things you need are the gateway address( your router) and the dns address(es) ( supplied by your ISP). 

You can get that info in XP using ipconfig or your Local Connections properties> tcp/ip properties.

What router do you have?
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i have a netgear RP614 v2.
ok ill try that. my tc/ip info is set to automatically get it from my isp. should i call my isp tech support and get that info?


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i found the relevant DNS info on www.ozcableguy.com 
Victoria 
Login Servers - 61.9.128.13
DNS Server IP Addresses - 61.9.128.14 , 61.9.128.15
DNS Suffixes - vic.bigpond.net.au
what other info do i need?


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I use wireless modem/router. Incoming is just a telephone line. None of my computers ever bother with anything once I set DHCP to be used with Internet connected from LAN.

Couldn't offer advice for cable users.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

well i managed to configure the network settings in linux. i am posting this from my linux setup. i feel so classy. haha. anyhow. do u guys know how to adjust the mouse sensitivity as i mentioned before. im just glad i can now use the net, coz now i can really start to explore and customize it all. YAHOO! really thanx for all ur help, uv been so very patient with me.


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

does linux use .exe files like windows? i tried to download the linux version for FireFox but cant seem to be able to install it... plz help!


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

bigavvystyle said:


> i found the relevant DNS info on www.ozcableguy.com
> Victoria
> Login Servers - 61.9.128.13
> DNS Server IP Addresses - 61.9.128.14 , 61.9.128.15
> ...


That should do it. You can enter the info like this:

```
Open yast
Click Network Devices
Click Already configured cards
Click Change
Highlight card from list and click edit
Choose Automatic Address Setup (Using DHCP)
Click Hostname and name server
Enter Name Server(s) IP Address
Enter Domain Search name (you can put vic.bigpond.net.au)
Click OK
```
 There should be an option in your router setup to enter your login info.
HTH
lynch


----------



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

try the command dhcpd eth0 from the command line, and then see if that works. 

If not, you may have to try a bigpond client, but coming off your router it should be working. (Once you've tested it, you can set it as a permanent setting in YAST)


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

its all sorted! i was able to configure all that info through yast. i didnt need to put in most of the info, once i set up the network card it automatically got the info from the ISP which means the router was connecting for me. which ever way it works and thats what matters!


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

That's great. Glad to hear you got it sorted out.
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok now here comes another dumb question. how the hell do i install programs in Linux? i have downloaded a couple of programs (linux platform ofcourse) but i cant figure out how to bloody install em! 

second, just a couple of config questions, how do i make it that u have to double click on files to open, and how do i change the mouse sensitivity?
thanx


----------



## tsunam (Sep 14, 2003)

1) unzip the source....
2)./configure
3)make
4)make_install
5) run your app


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

ok, and what does any of that mean!?!?!?!


----------



## lynch (Aug 3, 2002)

Tsunam is referring to how you install a tar.gz package. What programs did you download? Do they end in "tar.gz" or ".rpm"?
There are hundreds of programs on the CDs you get from your distro and there are ways to get the latest programs and updates by using your package manager. You are running SUSE so you can go here to learn how to setup the SUSE ftp site as your main source of installation. SUSE also will allow you to right-click the package and give you the option to extract a tar.gz or use the open with>software installer option. You'll be prompted for the root password.
With Mandrake you would go here to setup urpmi. 
With Debian you have apt and for the Gentoo masochists  you have Portage.
As far as mouse clicks, go to KDE Control Center and choose> Peripherals> Mouse and the option to setup your mouse is there. There should be a user manual on your desktop or in /usr/share/docs that may or may not be of help.
HTH
lynch


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

i have downloaded FireFox which is a tar.gz. And i downloaded another program which substitutes MSN messenger for the linux platform which is a .bin file. Could u give me instructions for both files. and for .rpm files? or could u guide me to where i may find a clear instruction guide.

another question aswell.
is there anyway to configure the boot loader program? when i turn on my comp and the bootloader loads, it has linux at the top and a 20 second count down. can i change this so windows is up the top and i can then choose linux when i am ready to play with it?
thanx for the info about the mouse, next time im using linux ill fix it up.
regards
BIG-AvvY-Style


----------



## AvvY (Oct 8, 2004)

still need help...


----------



## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I lost track of what is your current Linux is. Are you using Lilo or Grub?

Both of them have a text file controlling the boot menu with which you can edit it. For Lilo it is /etc/lilo.conf and for Grub it is /boot/grub/menu.lst. You should find the reference of the 20 seconds there, amend the line and save the file. For Grub that is all you need to do but for Lilo you need to type "lilo" in command mode to update the system. I don't have to tell you to change 20 to 60 seconds, do I?

I let others to answer your other questions.


----------



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

When flipping questions, it's always wise to start a new thread.


----------

