# Web site design



## steigerhouse (Jul 30, 2000)

I have designed a couple of websites for my business but I have always used a program such as Trellix or MS Word. I have been having a lot of trouble getting any kind of good position in search engines with these pages. I have discovered that a good deal of the problem is a result of these programs adding all this "junk" of there own to the Title and meta tags. Also there is no way to specify keywords. Not being trained in writing directly in HTML code, I was wondering if anyone knows of web creating software that does not "goop" up the source code with all their proprietary crap. Thanks for any help you can give me.


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## steven1350 (Jun 3, 2006)

steigerhouse said:


> I have designed a couple of websites for my business but I have always used a program such as Trellix or MS Word. I have been having a lot of trouble getting any kind of good position in search engines with these pages. I have discovered that a good deal of the problem is a result of these programs adding all this "junk" of there own to the Title and meta tags. Also there is no way to specify keywords. Not being trained in writing directly in HTML code, I was wondering if anyone knows of web creating software that does not "goop" up the source code with all their proprietary crap. Thanks for any help you can give me.


try frontpage or dreamweaver. These are some of the most common web design programs, am I am sure that there is tons of availaible support for these programs!


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

I'd go with Dreamweaver over Frontpage any day 

If you want a free editor, I'd suggest Nvu (nvu.com).


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

It's very similar to Netscape's Composer. Fairly easy to use, but I would like something a bit "more". Things in Composer are not easy to line up the way I'd wish them to view. I, too, do not know code/HTML, so would like to use a good Wysiwyg program, but with more bells and whistles than Composer and Nvu. Any suggestions? I cannot afford Dreamweaver, even if I did get it figured out!!! ;-) Have not looked into Frontpage yet. I'm sure it isn't all that cheap, either, but probably cheaper than Dreamweaver. Also, I have taken an Adobe class, and they touched on using it for building web pages. I'm somewhat familiar with Adobe Photoshop 6.0, so maybe could learn how to do web pages on that.


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## covert215 (Apr 22, 2006)

Part of web design is knowing how to make the page. Anyone can use a program to make a site. It takes skills to make good ones. If you don't know how to code, LEARN. You cannot be a web designer otherwise.

</soapbox> (that is a coding joke)


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

covert215 said:


> </soapbox>


Lol, all the drama


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

covert215 said:


> Part of web design is knowing how to make the page. Anyone can use a program to make a site. It takes skills to make good ones. If you don't know how to code, LEARN. You cannot be a web designer otherwise.
> 
> </soapbox> (that is a coding joke)


I AM learning, it's just slow going. Not much time, and I have ADD, so it takes me longer. I have several books on HTML, and numerous "texts" off the web. I just thought that in the meantime there could be something a bit more "precise" than Composer and Nvu, but not as "precise" as Dreamweaver.


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## covert215 (Apr 22, 2006)

If you are looking for mainstream products, the answer is no.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

No WYSIWYG editor is "precise". Even the best of them won't be 100% correct.

The reason is because someone _else_ has to program them to do stuff, and no one is perfect. Human errors happen every day, it's possible something was missed.

That's why the only way to be 100% precise is to code by hand.


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

Just thought I'd ask.

I'll keep plugging away at it, then, and hopefully people won't be annoyed with the two sites I have made:
http://www.tanbraelabradors.com
http://www.northiowafair.org

Do these appear properly lined up on your monitor?


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

WYSIWYGs are not precise, that is why I'm trying to learn HTML. I do the best I can, though, and am learning by my mistakes. Sometimes I have to just start a page all over and try again before it appears right on several monitors. ;-)


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Those sites seem to align fine for me 

Viewing at 1280x800

Though you could add a box with background color for this text


> The contents of this site, unless otherwise specified, are owned by and are copyright © as of 2002 Candee Bossard - TanBrae. None of the contents on this site may be reproduced or republished except when given express permission by the owner.


 Since it's a little hard to see as-is. With that background image


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

I always appreciate constructive comments. I will do that the next time I'm updating.


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## covert215 (Apr 22, 2006)

The bg image on the first site is a little distracting. Other than that, it is a good static page layout.

I'd edit the links out of your post unless you want this thread indexed. Use something like this:

Click here


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

"bg image". Do you mean my logo? The headshot of my dog? I won't edit that - it is my logo and my signature.


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## covert215 (Apr 22, 2006)

I mean the plaid background squares


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## ggordie (Jul 17, 2005)

bust out the good ol' notepad. that's what i use. i suggest buying a reference book like html 4 dummies and doing it yourself. that's how i started. it takes a little longer at first, but it's a lot more fun and in the end your pages will look better cuz for the most part, editors and generators willonly do so much.


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## nietsloh (Aug 9, 2005)

NVU and Writely are simple and free. Both are WYSIWYG. It'll take some knowledge to do more with NVU. You're very limited with Writely (a web-based word processor that does a nice job of creating simple web pages). 

NVU, by the way, is still a bit buggy. After awhile you learn how to work around the bugs, but it can be frustrating at first.


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

ggordie said:


> bust out the good ol' notepad. that's what i use. i suggest buying a reference book like html 4 dummies and doing it yourself. that's how i started. it takes a little longer at first, but it's a lot more fun and in the end your pages will look better cuz for the most part, editors and generators willonly do so much.


And, I've got the book HTML 4 Dummies! Just haven't had much time to read it. Some time soon, I hope to just sit and "play" with a site while looking at the book. There are so many neat things that can be done, but I need time to learn them.


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

nietsloh said:


> NVU, by the way, is still a bit buggy. After awhile you learn how to work around the bugs, but it can be frustrating at first.


Composer is still "buggy", too, from what I've noticed. It appears simple most times, but after uploading your page, what you see is not always what you asked it to do. I'm still having a problem trying to align text with pictures, even when using two columns in the tables. THAT'S why I am trying to learn HTML! ;-)


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## ggordie (Jul 17, 2005)

you're not gonna learn it on a forum. there are lots of tutorial on the web, just do a google search. i suggest buying a book tho, cuz you can skip ahead and go back as you need it.


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

ggordie said:


> you're not gonna learn it on a forum. there are lots of tutorial on the web, just do a google search. i suggest buying a book tho, cuz you can skip ahead and go back as you need it.


I'm using the book HTML 4 Dummies! 


TanBrae said:


> And, I've got the book HTML 4 Dummies! Just haven't had much time to read it. Some time soon, I hope to just sit and "play" with a site while looking at the book.


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## ggordie (Jul 17, 2005)

my bad.
good choice, that's what i used.


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## knight_47 (Mar 15, 2006)

Download FirstPage, it's a free HTML editor. Very simple.

Then download a template here.

Once you have the right template you need, open it up with FirstPage, and clean out all the text, and replace it with your own, same with the images.

Once you have your site done, you can host it for free at www.xenweb.net. It's absolutely ad free, and has FTP, php, mysql, cPanel, and much much more. Basically everything that a paid host has, except for this, it requires you to post on the forum. Only five posts, and you get the basic plan. After that, you no longer need to post any more, unless you want to get more space, and bandwidth.

About the graphics, download Photoshop CS2 from adobe's website, it's only a 30 day trial, check out a few tutorials at www.great-tutorials.com, and start making your own graphics.


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## jcosner (May 19, 2005)

Okay, go ahead and boo me...but I use FrontPage 2003. I have even used Publisher to create sites, but Firefox does not play well with that or at least someone I know could not view it properly using his Firefox. Anyway, I have had pretty good luck with FrontPage 2003. I like the way it has its own FTP program and will change only the pages I want to change. There are many benefits to this program, especially if you can't afford Dreamweaver. If you know someone that is an educator or someone that is a student, check into educational pricing for programs.

I agree that knowledge of HTML is very helpful and I only know enough to be dangerous, but at least you can design a site and get it up and running in short order. I only use this for my family website which makes it a good learning platform for trying things. So far I am happy with this program, even if I wouldn't be considered by others on the forum to be a true web site developer.

TanBrae, I think you have done a good job on your sites with whatever programs you are using. The only thing that a program like FontPage 2003 may offer you over what you are currently using may be easier placement of photos, etc. Well, that is not necessarily true, but you are doing well with what you have. I have seen several template sites that offer templates for Photoshop webpages. Since you own that program, check into the webpage features it offers and compare the learning curve to what you want to do vs. what you already do.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

That's because FrontPage and Publisher use some ie-only coding in the source, in FrontPage hit the "html" tab and if you see any of that coding, clean it up 

But I think FrontPage plays nicer than Publisher when it comes to injecting ie-only code.....


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

namenotfound said:


> That's because FrontPage and Publisher use some ie-only coding in the source, in FrontPage hit the "html" tab and if you see any of that coding, clean it up
> 
> But I think FrontPage plays nicer than Publisher when it comes to injecting ie-only code.....


what do you mean by this? "ie-only coding"??? Internet Explorer?

Sorry for being ignorant. Like I said, I'm still learning.


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## TanBrae (Aug 13, 2006)

jcosner said:


> TanBrae, I think you have done a good job on your sites with whatever programs you are using. The only thing that a program like FontPage 2003 may offer you over what you are currently using may be easier placement of photos, etc. Well, that is not necessarily true, but you are doing well with what you have. I have seen several template sites that offer templates for Photoshop webpages. Since you own that program, check into the webpage features it offers and compare the learning curve to what you want to do vs. what you already do.


I like Photoshop, but don't have much time to really get into it. Took a class, which dealt mainly with CS, but did learn some things that can apply to 6.0. I also have Photo Impact, which does a lot of the same things and it is much cheaper. I'll have to check out the PS template thing and see if I can get something from that.

FWIW, it is easier for me to learn by reading AND doing, rather than just reading, and sometimes text books are so dull that the ADD kicks in and I'm "out there". I'd LOVE to be able to take a whole, indepth class on web design, but cannot afford it, and cannot afford to take time off work to do it.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

TanBrae said:


> what do you mean by this? "ie-only coding"??? Internet Explorer?
> 
> Sorry for being ignorant. Like I said, I'm still learning.


Yeah ie = internet explorer

The original layout on the Microsoft Xbox forums is a good example of ie-only code (they cleaned it up though when they re-launched the forums for xbox 360)

The original layout consisted of CSS like this:

But that's wrong, the correct way to do it would be:

I'm not saying that's the exact code Publisher uses, it's just an example. But Publisher does do stuff like that.

Out of the two you listed before (Frontpage and Publisher), Frontpage doesn't botch up the code as much. So out of the two, I'd recommend Frontpage.


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