# Solved: PDF Form Fillers



## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Hi all,

I work for a legal company and staff often have to complete PDF forms. Many of these can be filled in in Acrobat Reader and printed, but not saved and re-edited.

Therefore, we have some software called PDFill that enables us to save changes to a PDF form, print, re-edit, etc. However, some forms involve numerous calculations (which when edited in Acrobat Reader - are calculated automatically).

Does anyone know of any PDF Form filling software that will enable calculations to be done automatically? (even if I have to set up the formulas myself!)

I need to avoid Acrobat Writer at all costs!

Please Help!
Thanks in advance,
Debbie

I have attached an example.


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## DoubleHelix (Dec 10, 2004)

If this is something you need to do all the time, why would you avoid the one application that would make the job easier?


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Because the cost for the company would be 10k!


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## DoubleHelix (Dec 10, 2004)

You're not going to find anything for free. And with the specific requirement of performing calculations, I don't think you'll have much success finding shareware or other cheaper software. 

The up-front costs for the software might sound steep, but what is it costing in labor to have everyone performing these calculations by hand? There is a cost in losing productivity and a savings in improving efficiency.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm said:


> I work for a legal company and staff often have to complete PDF forms. Many of these can be filled in in Acrobat Reader and printed, but not saved and re-edited.
> 
> Therefore, we have some software called PDFill that enables us to save changes to a PDF form, print, re-edit, etc. However, some forms involve numerous calculations (which when edited in Acrobat Reader - are calculated automatically).


If I understand your plight, I might have some help for you:

Do I understand correctly that you now have the ability to make whatever changes you need and are currently able to print those changes to paper??

If the answer to the above is YES-- then it seems to me that using a program like .pdfCreator would solve your problem. pdfCreator installs as a new "printer", so that when you tell it to print after you have made the changes you need--- Up pops a print dialogue with your current printer/s listed plus one new one called pdfCreator.

pdfCreator does not print to paper but to a .pdf file, thus saving your changes. Basically anything that can be printed to paper can be "printed" to a .pdf file. You can save your changes in this way-- using either your original file & software combination to make additional changes, or the new file.

I hope it helps,
letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh my god I think your right! I never thought of that! You are a diamond! Thank you soooo much! I will test that theory and let you know before I mark it solved!


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Grrrr....I get this error message when I try to print to pdf with the form attached to my original posting

ERROR: undefined
OFFENDING COMMAND: get
STACK:
/quit
-dictionary-
-mark

I think this may be because it is encrypted. Any ideas?


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Not sure why? Of course I do not have whatever programs you have to edit the pdf files--- but, as for the file you zipped and attached-- I was able to "PRINT" it back to a new .pdf file in about two seconds.

Have you tried your installation of pdfCreator on other documents (say, an old Word document, Excell spreadsheet, letter to Grandmother, or whatever??) I can honestly say that I have never had a problem producing a .pdf file from any program that has a print option.

Did you download the correct version of pdfCreator? (Not the language package but the program designated as PDFCreator 0.9.3----August 25, 2006?)

That's all I can think of at this moment-- but try "printing" a few files and make sure everything is working OK----- (Only other thing I can think of, I wonder if there is a permissions thing in the modified file- after you make changes--- that I don't have--- Perhaps you could try uploading a modified form (fake info, of course)-- I'd be glad to try it again.

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

I had version 0.9.2 so I am trying the newer version. I managed to print it to a pdf but got one blank page and the afore mentioned error at the start of the next page. Did you manage to print it to a new pdf with any additions? You can make additions to the form from within acrobat reader. I'm just going to test pdf Creator with some other documents and will edit this post with the results ASAP.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

How do you get the forms to pdf ???
There's a similar discussion going on here .... Using the typewriter tool
http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/534295-how-do-i-scan-document.html


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> How do you get the forms to pdf ???


Please see my posting #5 in this conversation (about .pdfCreator: to produce pdf files).


Noyb said:


> There's a similar discussion going on here .... Using the typewriter tool
> http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/534295-how-do-i-scan-document.html


Typewriter tool-- I use Foxit Reader (which has had typewriter tool for quite awhile-- glad to hear that Adobe has finally caught up)--- Yes- typewriter tool works fine to fill in blank lines.

Thanks for the question and comment
letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Hope I'm not changing the course of this topic ... or butting in ...
But it seems the pdf has to be created with the typewriter rights enabled .. in order to do this in Adobe reader.
I still have a lot to learn here... but here's a sample pdf for Adobe reader with the typewriter enabled.
Still have to figure out the font size.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm said:


> I had version 0.9.2 so I am trying the newer version. I managed to print it to a pdf but got one blank page and the afore mentioned error at the start of the next page. Did you manage to print it to a new pdf with any additions?


I use Foxit Reader and was able, with their typewriter tool, to fill in several of the blanks and then "PRINT" to pdfCreator. None of the problems you have described have shown up for me- I do use 0.9.3- works like a charm. (Perhaps the download went awry? Try downloading it again and re-install.) 


Erm said:


> You can make additions to the form from within acrobat reader. I'm just going to test pdf Creator with some other documents and will edit this post with the results ASAP.


Perhaps I should update to version 8- (but with the disasters that happened in v. 6, and the discovery of Foxit-- I have been pleased to use that).

Awaiting your update on trials with other programs and your current version of pdfCreator.
letchworth


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> Hope I'm not changing the course of this topic ... or butting in ...
> But it seems the pdf has to be created with the typewriter rights enabled .. in order to do this in Adobe reader.
> I still have a lot to learn here... but here's a sample pdf for Adobe reader with the typewriter enabled.
> Still have to figure out the font size.


Not at all- perhaps we can all learn (Well, if Erm doesn't mind, I should say)-- It was really her question that prompted the thread.

As I mention above- I use Foxit Reader, which also includes typewriter tool- I just fill in the blanks with the typewriter tool and "PRINT" to pdfCreator. Works like a charm for me. Unfortunately, I don't know how to send you an attachment- (That is a feature I have not used on this board).

I need to leave for awhile-- but will read this thread later- to see if anything else developes.
letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I'm Back again .... 

FWIW ... 
What little pdf form filling I do .. I use Photoshop .. but then I'm familiar with it.

I've been playing with Adobe Reader 8's typewriter .. and I don't like it .. not enough controls or options.
Also .. Unless I missed something ..The pdf must be saved (created) with the Typewriter enabled

Thanks to Letchworts tips ...
I found a copy of Foxit Pro .. and I like it's Typewriter much better that Adobe's Typewriter.
The Foxit pro pack must be used to enable saving without editing markups.

Don't know bout Ya'll .. but I'm learning something .. Thanks.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> I found a copy of Foxit Pro .. and I like it's Typewriter much better that Adobe's Typewriter.
> The Foxit pro pack must be used to enable saving without editing markups.


NOT if you "SAVE it" by "PRINT"ing to pdfCreator--- The editing markups only show up if you save it using Foxit's own save option-- Using "PRINT" avoids that.


Noyb said:


> Don't know bout Ya'll .. but I'm learning something .. Thanks.


Now, if we can just get Erm's installation working-- (Now as Red Green says, "We're all in this together".)

letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

letchworth said:


> NOT if you "SAVE it" by "PRINT"ing to pdfCreator--- The editing markups only show up if you save it using Foxit's own save option-- Using "PRINT" avoids that...


Yes .. But the saved forms can't be corrected or edited.
The pro pack should be cheaper than $10K.
I'm wondering how many forms are involved and what it would cost to hire someone do them right in Acrobat ?


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

I just downloaded Foxit and it allowed me to edit the afore mentioned document, save changes and re-edit! All for free! And the calculations work! Am I imagining this? WOW! Please just check it works for me then pinch me if I'm right!

Thanks!!!
Debs

As an after thought does anyone know if this works on terminal services?


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

So glad it works like you needed! (It is a great little program).

Don't know anything about terminal services-- perhaps you can let us know

You may wish to mark this thread "Solved" from the thread tools

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Me too! I'm in shock! Wahoo! So just confirm...am I right in thinking you can even use the additional features in foxit (that are really part of the pro pack) and escape the evaluation marks by 'printing' to pdf with PDFCreator rather than saving from Foxit?

I'll let you know about Terminal Services.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

YES .. the pro pack will let you save as a pdf without the evaluation Stamp.
from there you can re-edit .. Save or Print as needed.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Thanks again all! Much appreciated...I think its about time I made a donation to this site! It has helped me incredibly over the years! Long live the Tech Guys site!

But more importantly thanks to those that post!


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Oooohh....when you complete check fields in this it checks all options for a question....e.g. Yes and No....any ideas???


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm said:


> am I right in thinking you can even use the additional features in foxit (that are really part of the pro pack) and escape the evaluation marks by 'printing' to pdf with PDFCreator rather than saving from Foxit?


As for other features- you'll have to check those out; however, by "Printing" to pdfCreator (rather than saving to Foxit) you get what you see on the screen-- no "stamp". Saving to Foxit includes the stamp (however, even there, the stamp will disappear if you play with it- I think by clicking on it).

The ProPack has additional features-- and its cost is quite modest ($39 each for 1-4 and $22 each for 100 users). Depending upon your needs you might also consider Foxit PDF Editor (perhaps valuable to have in your environment for at least one or two stations). I do see that they have evaluation downloads and purchase licenses. You can find a description here:
http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader_2/addons.htm#editor

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Do you know if there is a fix for the check box issue?


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm said:


> Do you know if there is a fix for the check box issue?


Sorry to be so dumb, but I'm not really sure what you mean--- could you walk me through it?

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Sorry...I didn't explain very well. In the document I attached at the start, if you look at page 2, Foxit ticks both option boxes i.e. for the Yes /No questions if I tick yes or no, both are ticked.

By the way, I have now had confirmation from Foxit that both the Reader and Writer run on Terminal Services. I have also asked them about this problem. But just wondered if anyone here knew. No response from them on this issue yet.

Thanks again!


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm;
Sorry to leave you hanging- I was, frankly hoping that someone with more knowledge of the creation of this type of form would come along and help.

I keep going back to your original posting (#1)


Erm said:


> Therefore, we have some software called PDFill that enables us to save changes to a PDF form, print, re-edit, etc. However, some forms involve numerous calculations (which when edited in Acrobat Reader - are calculated automatically).


It just seems to me that the error is not in Foxit (as that is not involved in setting up the calculations-- I'm wondering if the original form and its calculations was set up incorrectly (Does this "all or none" checked situation happen without the use of Foxit?) or some incompatibility between Foxit and whatever was used to produce the original form?? (& I think that is partly where your thinking is, by contacting Foxit).

Please let me know what Foxit advises.
letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Try this in Adobe Reader ... http://2noyb.home.insightbb.com/iht200.pdf
Is this what you're looking for ???


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> Try this in Adobe Reader ... http://2noyb.home.insightbb.com/iht200.pdf
> Is this what you're looking for ???


Excellent! Now, de-mystify it a bit for me:
Do I need Adobe writer to create such a form from scratch? (So that the spreadsheet functions can work?)
I have used Foxit to fill in the blanks-- but this is obviously more.

And what did you use to make the check boxes larger for the VW dealer? (& was it a conflict between the form and Foxit that caused two or more boxes to be checked when you really only wanted one on the line?)

appreciate the insights
letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I ran erm's pdf thru Foxit and saw what Ya'll were talking about.
What I saw made me think the text fields were already there ... but were confusing Foxit.

So .. To solve my curiosity attack ... I ran it thru Acrobat 8.0 .. and told Acrobat to enable the Adobe Reader functions.

Is the Adobe Writer you're taking about .. the same as Adobe Acrobat ???
Or is there something else I don't know about 

I was using Acrobat to edit Rolin's pdf.
I made the original source image in Photoshop.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

letchworth said:


> Erm;
> It just seems to me that the error is not in Foxit (as that is not involved in setting up the calculations-- I'm wondering if the original form and its calculations was set up incorrectly (Does this "all or none" checked situation happen without the use of Foxit?) or some incompatibility between Foxit and whatever was used to produce the original form?? (& I think that is partly where your thinking is, by contacting Foxit).
> letchworth


The calculations in Foxit work perfectly. The only issue is with the check boxes. The check boxes all work perfectly in Acrobat Reader and PDFill, just not in Foxit (although not all have this "all or none" issue....some work fine).

They have asked me to send them some more info...so I'll do that today.

I hope I haven't confused the issue along the way....to clarify, all I need is a piece of software that allows us to complete PDF forms, save and re-edit them, whether they have been set up as an interactive document (ie. with text boxes that can be completed in Acrobat Reader) or not.

It seems to me that Foxit promises all this but is not incredibly reliable at present...what with the check box issue and a bizarre error message that I keep getting. The error message is attached as it wouldn't paste.

I must confess I have become a little confused with the whole discussion...so many bits of software and comments....I am going to read through from the beginning.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> Is the Adobe Writer you're taking about .. the same as Adobe Acrobat ???
> Or is there something else I don't know about
> QUOTE]
> 
> When I say Acrobat Writer I do just me Adobe Acrobat (as in the one that allows you to create PDFs). I just add the writer to the name to clarify that I do not mean Acrobat Reader...grrrr Adobe are difficult! lol


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Foxit tell me the check box issue is:
"...caused by our JS engine's bug. Our development team will fix it soon."

So thats that one ticked off....she isn't sure about the error message.

Just a little something I'd like to note...Foxit are better with customer support for a free product than most companies that charge the earth!!! The company is in California I believe and I send emails in the day UK time and have a reply by the next morning. Thats good by any standard!


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Erm;
You do probably one of the best jobs of reporting back of anyone--- Thank you. So often if it works, we don't hear back--- Understandable, but you are great.

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Awwww....thanks!

I did note a couple of bits I failed to reply to when reading through the posts yesterday tho. I speed read all too often! Sorry!



letchworth said:


> I use Foxit Reader and was able, with their typewriter tool, to fill in several of the blanks and then "PRINT" to pdfCreator. None of the problems you have described have shown up for me- I do use 0.9.3- works like a charm. (Perhaps the download went awry? Try downloading it again and re-install.)
> 
> Awaiting your update on trials with other programs and your current version of pdfCreator.
> letchworth


I didn't use the typewriter tool, just clicked and completed....the date box at the top doesn't fill, but staff could use the PDFill software we already have for this.

As for the trials, it worked fine in Word. But even now, if I fill it in with Foxit and print to PDF Creator it doesn't work...still that same error. However, printing to PDF may not be suitable as it stops the calculations working and means editing has to be done with the typewriter tool.



Noyb said:


> Yes .. But the saved forms can't be corrected or edited.
> The pro pack should be cheaper than $10K.
> I'm wondering how many forms are involved and what it would cost to hire someone do them right in Acrobat ?


Unfortunately there are hundreds of forms and they change regularly.



Noyb said:


> Try this in Adobe Reader ... http://2noyb.home.insightbb.com/iht200.pdf
> Is this what you're looking for ???


How come I can save this one through Acrobat Reader? Is this because you edited it with Acrobat and enabled reader functions?


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Erm said:


> How come I can save this one through Acrobat Reader? Is this because you edited it with Acrobat and enabled reader functions?


YES .. I opened it in Writer .. Enabled the Reader fuctions .. And re-saved it ... (no editing involved)
Only took a couple of seconds... (once I found the tools)

I'm wondering why someone doesn't (hasn't) written a small utility to do this without using Acrobat.

I'm thinking this might only be feasible ....
If the original pdf was written in a form fill format ... but was disabled somewhere along the line.
Perhaps Adobe version in-compatibilites ???

Your sample appeared to have the original form fill ... and this enable those features.
On my local state tax form .. this only enabled the basic typewriter.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> I'm wondering why someone doesn't (hasn't) written a small utility to do this without using Acrobat.
> 
> I'm thinking this might only be feasible ....
> If the original pdf was written in a form fill format ... but was disabled somewhere along the line.
> ...


Yeah...some forms are set up interactively (basically they have text boxes to allow data entry), but cannot be saved and re-edited until the reader functions are enabled, as you did with my form.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I can understand why you wouldn't want to install and learn Acrobat to make your own pdfs ... or fill them in manually.

If this quick Acrobat enabling feature would work on most of you pdfs, wouldn't the firm be willing to buy it ??

You got me curious ... Any more samples I can play with ??


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

This is an interesting thread--- it has continued at least as long after being marked solved as before--- That has to be some kind of record.

Let me add to the length with both comments and questions.
My knowledge of PDF files is basically the "read only" nature. I was excited to discover that Foxit had a typewriter function which works pretty well-- this helped in some things that I was was doing. However, this ability to create forms that can do their own calculations (like a spreadsheet functions) fascinates me because I can see so many uses. Is this an Adobe Acrobat ability. In other words, and I guess I am addressing Noyb on this-- could I produce a file similar to the one Erm is interested in strictly using Adobe Acrobat?? Or would I need additional software? (I realize that Erm's original form did not have some things "turned on"- but was that all that was missing-- and could the whole thing be produced with Adobe Acrobat?)

I'm not sure if the number of file I personally need justify breaking the budget for Adobe Acrobat--- however, I tried doing something similar with a tables facility in Serif PagePlus-- saving to .pdf file-- but unable to "fill in the blanks" afterwards.



Erm said:


> I hope I haven't confused the issue along the way....to clarify, all I need is a piece of software that allows us to complete PDF forms, save and re-edit them, whether they have been set up as an interactive document (ie. with text boxes that can be completed in Acrobat Reader) or not.


Erm- if I am understanding it correctly, it sounds like one or a few copies of Adobe Acrobat in the hands of people creating for 'turning on" the functions is all you really need- and the filling in and saving can be handled by anyone with Adobe Reader.

letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

letchworth said:


> .. In other words, and I guess I am addressing Noyb on this -- could I produce a file similar to the one Erm is interested in strictly using Adobe Acrobat??


If I gave anyone the impression that I'm a wizard with Acrobat ... I have a London Bridge I'll sell you 

Maybe the answer is Yes.
Thanks to Rollins help .. We made a Fillin-able pdf from a scanned Image here ... using Acrobat.
http://forums.techguy.org/business-applications/534295-solved-how-do-i-scan.html#post4343437
Rollin did all the hard work ... and I did some touch up editing ... after he showed me how in Acrobat.
I did edit the scanned Image a little in Photoshop before writing it to a pdf, using Cutepdf, to make the original pdf image for Acrobat.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Hi all!

Apologies for the delay! I've been arguing with our IT support about the product! 

I have very much come to the same conclusion, in that all we need is 1/2 licensed Adobe Acrobats that can be used to 'unlock' the forms for editing and saving in Acrobat Reader.

I have attached the full version of the IHT200...could you modify it for editing for me NOYB? But also give me a step by step as how to do it? What version of Adobe Acrobat do you have? I think we have a copy of 5!?

Thanks
Debbie


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Your attachment is missing ??
I was using Acrobat pro 8.0

If the original pdf doesn't have the text fill in or typewriter functions "built in"
It can be a Huge amount of effort to reconstruct it.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Grrrr...its too big! I missed the error message and assumed it was there! I think all our forms are editable in Reader...is that what you mean?


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Not really ...
I'll send you my Email address ... I think you have Email turned on here.
I saw that you don't have private messaging turned on ???
Then you can Email it to me.

Edit .. Check your Email now


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Got it ... That's better.
Did you use Windows XP to zip it the first time ?? .. or something else ??

Got the attached notice ... don't know what to do about it at this time.
Got some things to do .. Will be back later.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Looks like you need to get an updated version with the latest Tax numbers.

I'm thinking Adobe has a problem ...
I see no reason why the "Rights" to this form should be disabled....
And why you should need to spend a lot of money just to poke a couple of tools in Acrobat to enable them.

I don't like Acrobat .. it tries to take over my computer.
Go to go .. I'm being nagged at .. cause my breakfast is getting cold.
L8R


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh yeah...I got that too...just Ok it....the staff who use it tell me the error message is unimportant.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> Looks like you need to get an updated version with the latest Tax numbers.
> 
> I'm thinking Adobe has a problem ...
> I see no reason why the "Rights" to this form should be disabled....
> ...


I think Adobe just wants everyone to splash out on Acrobat...I totally agree there is no reason for these forms to have Reader functions/rights disabled! Its mad, madddddddd I tell you!

Hope you enjoyed your breakfast....I was eating my lunch at that time.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I'm fully Coffee(ied), Fed, Showered .. and She who must be obeyed is Happy.

Also .. These seem to be official government legal forms ....
Why didn't the creator make the the right way ???
Do they work the same stupid way our government does ???

Even my Indiana State Tax forms are typewriter disabled ... and are not created "fill-in-able"
Can I use this as an excuse for not sending them in ??

In Acrobat, It's way too simple .. Just click on Advanced .. and enable the Usage Rights.

Even a Caveman can do it ... Those watching our TV Commercials will know what I mean.

I'm thinking the popup warnings Just mean that it's up to you to know if the Embedded Data is the latest.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb;
Am I correct (don't own Adobe Acrobat) that the forms have everything already in them (formulas, ec.) but just turned off-- and all you are really doing is turning them back on? Amazing.

letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

As near as I can figure ... you're correct .. at least with the pdf's Erm is forwarding.

My state tax forms seem to have nothing "in them" ... Not Fill-in-able.
All I can do is turn on the Typewriter .. or What I'd call a poor excuse for one.

Here's Indiana's version ... http://www.in.gov/dor/taxforms/06pdfs/06-it40frm.pdf
Here's my version with the typewriter enabled ...http://kpcc.home.insightbb.com/IT40frm.pdf

You'll have to download my version .. then figure out how to add the typewriter tool bar.
I'm using Reader 8.0 ... don't know how this works on older versions.

Foxit has a better typewriter .. but you have to pay $40 more to be able to save it as an editable pdf file.

If I was going to pay $40 .. I'd throw in another $40 .. and get Adobe Photoshop Elements 5.0
This is how I've been typing on pdf's (using CS2) .. such as rebate forms - till now.
But .. I've already been thru the long learning curve on Photoshop.

Erm ... did you get the corrected pdf via Email.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> As near as I can figure ... you're correct .. at least with the pdf's Erm is forwarding.
> 
> Foxit has a better typewriter .


Yes- a very good typewriter---- I'm not sure their Pro version has enough additional features for what I hope to do--- but the typewriter function works well (& I can save the original if I wish to fill it in differently later).

If I may, just one further extension of the topic-- Would Adobe Acrobat allow me to make a generically similar form from scratch (fill in the blanks)--- or, do I use graphic software to make the form and Adobe Acrobat to create the entry blanks, equations, etc.?

Thank you for your help (You didn't know how dangerous it was to own a piece of software that others can't afford, did you?) Actually, I'm hoping to find an older version that is affordable for the times I would need it.

letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

letchworth said:


> Would Adobe Acrobat allow me to make a generically similar form from scratch (fill in the blanks)--- or, do I use graphic software to make the form and Adobe Acrobat to create the entry blanks, equations, etc.?


You can take a pdf ... And add the Form Fill-in features using Acrobat.
You can take an Image (scan/picture) of a form and open it in Acrobat .. and work on it.
But .. I usually rework the Image in Photoshop (as a pdf) first.

Did I cover your questions ??

I didn't think the freeware version of Foxit would allow file saving .. only printing.
Did I miss something ??


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> I didn't think the freeware version of Foxit would allow file saving .. only printing.
> Did I miss something ??


1- With the free version you can save the file without modifications.
2- You can also save the modified file and a watermark is added (which can be removed by clicking on it), then print it- I should probably play with it a bit more to see if it can be re-edited.
3- You can save the changes without watermark by "printing" to pdfCreator.

Thanks for the info about Adobe- There are a few times when that type of file would be helpful- I didn't realize all that it did, now I'll have to save up for it (then learn how to use it)

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> I'm fully Coffee(ied), Fed, Showered .. and She who must be obeyed is Happy.


All of the above should always be your first priority! Especially the last bit!



Noyb said:


> Also .. These seem to be official government legal forms ....
> Why didn't the creator make the the right way ???
> Do they work the same stupid way our government does ???
> 
> ...


They are from the HM Revenue site...I agree it is ridiculous, I think we should all strike in protest...you'd think they could take the time to unlock them! Maybe they have an agreement with Adobe!? 



Noyb said:


> In Acrobat, It's way too simple .. Just click on Advanced .. and enable the Usage Rights.
> 
> Even a Caveman can do it ... Those watching our TV Commercials will know what I mean.


My god! That makes it even more ridiculous! For 'fill-able' forms we don't even need Foxit then, since we already have a couple of copies of Acrobat (although I think it is only version 5).


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

letchworth said:


> Noyb;
> Am I correct (don't own Adobe Acrobat) that the forms have everything already in them (formulas, ec.) but just turned off-- and all you are really doing is turning them back on? Amazing.
> 
> letchworth


Yep the data entry fields and formulas are there and work in Reader but can't be saved until the Usage Rights have been enabled! How crazy!

Although some forms are not set up as 'fill-able' (i.e. data entry fields have not been created), but these can be set up with Foxit or Acrobat and then made editable with Reader in Acrobat!


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I've never been accused of being a trouble maker ... LOL
But I'd sure get on the phone and ask them why they're providing forms that are unusable.

If I had the phone number .. I'd also call Adobe and ask them why you can't fillin forms that ARE created fillin-able.

I'm curious if earlier versions of Acrobat would fix them...
or maybe this problem is caused by the (so called) "security" features in the new versions of Adobe reader.

Got anymore that needs unlocked ...
As you can see .. It's takes a lot of effort on my end.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Erm said:


> Although some forms are not set up as 'fill-able' (i.e. data entry fields have not been created), but these can be set up with Foxit or Acrobat and then made editable with Reader in Acrobat!


The Adobe Typewriter is a joke ... You'll have trouble positioning the text to make it look nice.
Foxit allows you to fine position the text by using the arrow keys on your keyboard.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> Erm ... did you get the corrected pdf via Email.


Ooooo sorry....Yep I got it and from what I can see it is perfect. My user is testing it today hopefully! Thanks soooooooooooo much!

At least I know where I am with it now and have all the facts!

I think we should get some sort of award for this thread!! I know I have learnt an incredible amount and saved the compnay lots of time and money, since we now only need to upgrade the couple of Adobe licenses we have...and hopefully buy me one for my trouble! 

Can't thank you both enough! I feel like I want to send you flowers and chocs!



Noyb said:


> Got anymore that needs unlocked ...
> As you can see .. It's takes a lot of effort on my end.


Awww....you're a diamond!!! I think that was the only urgent one and hopefully they will get me a copy of Acrobat now so I can unlock them. Thanks again!


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

If it helps .. I have some installation recommendations that will help to stop Acrobat from taking over you computer.

Install this freeware ... http://www.winpatrol.com/download.html .. and run it in the background.

Install Adobe Acrobat.

Scotty will alert you anytime acrobat tries to change you computer by adding startup programs or browser helpers.

Answer NO to all Scottys questions.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

I repeat my previous post....you really are a diamond!!!


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

letchworth said:


> .... but the typewriter function works well (& I can save the original if I wish to fill it in differently later).


I forgot about saving ... but with the "I've been edited w Foxit" red stamp.
To me .. that's the same as a (No Save) restriction.
The Free foxit download is the Pro version .. all you need is the $30 numbers to enable it.


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

If you don't use the pro features tho, you dont get the annoying stamp. You can also get around it using the Print to PDF capability of PDF Creator. However, this does stop 'fill-able' forms being edited without a typewriter, Paintshop or something similar...depending on your preferred tipple.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Noyb said:


> I forgot about saving ... but with the "I've been edited w Foxit" red stamp.
> To me .. that's the same as a (No Save) restriction.


Save a file you have edited.
Load it back into Foxit--- and you will see the red stamp.
Click on typewriter
Click on the stamp---- highlight the text.
Push <DELETE>----- It's gone!
Now continue editing the form--- change what you typed in before--- and save again (yes, the red stamp will be there, but it can be edited out with the typewriter function.

Not the same as the ability to create the forms in the first place--- but worthwhile anyway.
letchworth


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

That's a Really good tip ..
But you blew my next posting about not being able to save it as a "work in progress file" for Editing or Completing.
... You're forgiven

After removing the Red Stamp (the second time around) ... I can't get pdf creator to print it   

Just to be ornery ... I'm going to file my State Taxes with the Foxit Red stamp and make it as messy as I can.
Think they'll get the hint ???


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Looks good, Clem--- very nice

Hecliff


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Thats sweet! If they start making their forms 'fillable' let me know! I'm not holding my breath!  Legible, but messy! Go with it...I dare ya! 

Hey Letch...nice trick! Using their own features against them! Sneaky!


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Good Morning Erm ... got any pdfs for me to fix today ?
I probably won't do messy ... It's only a poor government worker that will suffer.
The bosses don't care about us and I'm sure the employees either.

Blessed are they who run around in circles ... for they shall be know as Big Wheels.

Hecliff .. I wonder how many here don't understand ??
Are we telling our age ??


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

Old enough that I couldn't remember the other one's name was Gertrude.
(I don't mind the aches and pains so much as the blank stares when telling a story).

letchworth


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> Good Morning Erm ... got any pdfs for me to fix today ?
> I probably won't do messy ... It's only a poor government worker that will suffer.
> The bosses don't care about us and I'm sure the employees either.
> 
> ...


Do you enjoy the satisfaction of achieving so much from so little effort?  Shouldn't need anymore now...the company have agreed to let me have control of all things PDF...I should be getting a copy of Acrobat installed shortly. Thanks sooo much for your help so far!!!

The government workers are pre-programmed to hate all members of the public from my experience!

Erm...perhaps u are showing your age...but I would suggest I am showing a lack of it!! Then again my general knowledge is not up to much!


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Let me guess .. You don't remember what a Black n White TV looks like.
and haven't seen any really good TV shows lately.

If it were me .. I'd install Acrobat on one computer only ... And look back at post #61.

I have the uneducated impression that even Acrobat 8 is not useful (friendly) for typewriting on Basic pdf forms ...
and wasn't intended for such simple operations.

Perhaps by design ??? ... or stupidity ?? ...

As Red would close ... "God Bless"


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

I am only 23 (almost 24) but I do remember black and white...cos we were poor! ...watching snooker was hillarious...Dad swore he could tell which colour was which!!...But whos Red?  Is that an American thing?

I think that is exactly what we'll do...then I can also have a copy of Foxit...to set up non fillable forms. Perfect solution!

Thanks all...seems a shame to stop posting on here now...its almost become our personal chat room


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Not that I'm trying to keep this going...but as strange as this request sounds....can you show me a screen print of where the Adobe appears on the Program menu...I have to be sure I explain to users how to check if they have it installed. (Seems they have been passing the CD around! Oooops!)


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

You mean like here ???
Last three ...


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Erm said:


> Thanks all...seems a shame to stop posting on here now...


Agreed ...
Yes .. Red was an American comedian .. probably starting back in the 60's - I'm guessing.

Hope you also got the license to run the full Foxit.
You gonna have the others remove Acrobat ??
Unless their sharp with computers .. They're probably very confused by now.

If they installed it without Scotty watching .. it'll Hijack the computer and probably slow it down.
No sense having all the Adobe routines starting at bootup ... or adding to all your context menus.

It'll probably just confuse everyone.
You'll have three programs to edit pdfs ... which one do they want to use ...
and which one does the computer default to ??

I'd still set up so that Reader 8.0 is the default pdf program ...
... foxit as a second (open with) choice... and maybe Acrobat Pro as another (open with) choice.

The question will be ..
Do you keep a library of the required pdfs ... (Where you can enable the Reader rights)
Or go fetch them from the internet when needed ??


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Yeah....thank you...I have this whole confusion with Adobe because they used to call the Reader....Acrobat Reader....now its Adobe Reader and the writer is Adobe Acrobat...is it just me or are they very unimaginative with names or just trying to confuse us?


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

You think that's confusing ??? .. 
If I can imagine ... You might even have another problem.

I'm assuming .. Once the pdf is filled in .. It becomes an official (legal) document ...
and can (should) only be changed under some rules .. Then filed as a different (updated) file name ...
and/or keep paper records.

Would everyone have rights to edit these pdfs .. and know what they're doing ??
Maybe they should be filed with the Reader rights Disabled once the work is done.
And maybe only one (so called - file librarian) would have the ability to change the status of the file.

Maybe this is why the Reader rights are disabled to start with ??

Back in the old days .. I was a system manager for an automotive CAD/CAM system for a time.
The designers were always asking me for a specific released part file (name) to work on.
I would ask them what file name they wanted it ...They would say .. "The same file name - Dummy"

Then I would ask them ..
"Daryle" .. "What would have happened if your mom had another son named Daryle ?"

Anyone remember the Bob Newhart show? .. 
"This is my brother Daryle and my other brother Daryle"


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> Agreed ...
> Yes .. Red was an American comedian .. probably starting back in the 60's - I'm guessing.


Not a clue....sure it was great!



Noyb said:


> Hope you also got the license to run the full Foxit.
> You gonna have the others remove Acrobat ??
> Unless their sharp with computers .. They're probably very confused by now.
> 
> ...


I'm making it easy for them...they will only have Adobe Reader...they will all have to send me electronic copies of the PDF forms they use (sounds easy...you wouldn't believe what has happened so far) and I will enable the Reader functions and save them in a PDF Forms folder on our shared drive. Any forms that aren't already fillable...I will set up with Foxit...problem solved and kept nice and simple for the users! (Simple enough?...your guess is as good as mine!!)


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## Erm (Jul 30, 2003)

Noyb said:


> You think that's confusing ??? ..
> If I can imagine ... You might even have another problem.
> 
> I'm assuming .. Once the pdf is filled in .. It becomes an official (legal) document ...
> ...


I work at a solicitors...so I'll let them worry about the legalities. At the moment there is no standard procedure...people do as they see fit...TipEx has been used on occasion!



Noyb said:


> Anyone remember the Bob Newhart show? ..
> "This is my brother Daryle and my other brother Daryle"


Erm.....no, sorry. Am I missing out?


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