# Defrag Hangs At 33%



## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

I have tried to defrag my hard drive and everytime it hangs at 33%. I have Windows 98. I have tried troubleshooting by doing the following and nothing has worked:
1. Ran if safe mode. Still hung at 33%
2. Started Windows with just basics running (unchecked all items under selective start up in MSCONFIG, then ran thorough Scan Disk (no errors), then defrag. (Still hung at 33%).
3. Followed steps on Support.microsoft.com per Q218160. (Deleting AppLog folder, etc.) Still hung at 33%.
4. Disabled everything except explorer.

When it stops at 33%, the light on my tower flashes in the same pattern and the 33% sort of blinks off and on (slightly) on the screen. I am worried about a hard disk crash, although I get no errors on my scan disk.

Any ideas how to resolve this. I can tell from the slowness of my system that it needs to be defragged. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks
[email protected]


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Have you done a disk cleanup first? If you have another partition, move your Favorites and My Documents folders there for safekeeping.

Delete Temp int, Windows\temp History Etc. Reboot.
Try the defrag again.

EDIT: I went and read the KB article and see y9ou have fiollowed the steps. How much time are you allowing defrag before you declare it hung?


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

donaco
Welcome to TSG!
Defrag can hang if it is finding a problem it cannot resolve such as a bad area of the disk it can write to but not read back. It should give an error message but sometimes doesn't.
Go into safe mode again and run a through scandisk first and fix any problems that are encountered. Then try to run defrag.
Dave

Edit: I see Mosaic has some good suggestions also. See what happens after the cleanup process.
Maybe I should of gone and read the MS article to see you probably did the scandisk already!


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Pardon if this sounds rehearsed, it is. I keep it handy since there are so many questions about defragging. Here goes:

1st there is a lot of discussion about whether you need to defrag in safe mode or in standard Windows. You do not need to go to safe mode in 98% of all instances if you use the commonly called or named; *ME_defrag*.

2nd there is also a lot of discussion about shutting down everything running except explorer and systray. You do not need to do this in 98% of all instances if you use *Me_defrag*.

You can get this version of defrag at one of the following sites:

http://216.12.220.222/~nicefiles/index.html

http://surecool.com/download.htm

http://members.tripod.com/stingsshack/downloads.htm (bunch of pop-ups here)

There are many more sites that you can get ME_defrag but these will do.

Once you have it (there is a self installing version and a manual install version) all you have to do is make sure the file is renamed to *defrag.exe* and move it into the *C:\Windows* directory. You will get a prompt asking if you want to replace the original defrag.exe, just say YES.

This is a small file. Only 209 kb.

Occassionally one of the sites will name it ME_Defrag.exe. That's why I mentioned to rename it.

There is also controversy about whether this was created by Micosoft as part of Win95 or ME. In my opinion, neither. It was part of the original NT OS disk keeper. I do know this, I've used it on Win95a, Win95B, Win98FE and Win98SE and never had a problem. I've run it without shutting any open apps including anti-virus and it always finishes. The only exception to this was a laptop with IBM Client Access installed and running a connection to an AS-400.

The first noticable difference in this version is that it gives you options. The default will move all your apps to the front for faster loading and I found this to work with a machine that had dozens and dozens of apps. To do this the first time takes a little while but succeeding runs are very fast. *I recommend not using that option on the first run if you can't complete a defrag or have never defragged just to save time.*

I've had people reply back on this board that using this version got them from 45 minutes on 30 and 40 GB drives to 3 to 5 minutes.

Also, if you are concerned, I recommend a once-a-week defrag. Others disagree but if you use your PC for more than just a mail box then it can only help. It can't hurt.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Did do a Disk Cleanup (several times). I have let it run as long as overnight (12 hours) and it still is sitting on 33% when I get up. I already did a thorough scan disk and received no error messages. Would something show up in Safe Mode??? I cannot do what Griffinspc suggested as I can't get it to complete. Any ideas out there?


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by donaco _
> *Did do a Disk Cleanup (several times). I cannot do what Griffinspc suggested as I can't get it to complete. Any ideas out there? *


I don't quite undersatnd. You can't do what? Did you replace the original defrag.exe with a downloaded version as I outlined and try defragging?


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

donaco
I agree with Griffin that the WinME version of Defrag is a faster version. I am concerned however why the process is hanging at one spot and is appearing to cycle there. Write, read, write, read as you say by the drive light appearing cyclic. There is some viruses that can cause hangs in Defrag so you may want to eliminate that possibility by doing a free online scan at housecalls.
http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_corp.asp

Here is the MSKB article that references possible viruses.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q309460

Let us know what you find.
Dave


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

I downloaded the new defrag file but question--should I have renamed it in the download window or let it download under the name it assigned (newdefrag). I let it download as newdefrag.zip then opened it. It didn't give me any options. It just started defragging, but again, hung at 33%. I also ran the virus scan. No viruses. Did I not do the download correctly?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Do you know who manufactured your hard drive? If so, go to their web site and download the Disk tools. See if you have a problem with the disk.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Not sure about the hard drive mfg. How can I find that out? Also, I tried renaming the ME_Defrag. exe to replace the defrag.exe into the C:/Windows file. Now I get an error message when I try to run it that says: C:\WINDOWS\DEFRAG.EXE is not a valid Win 32 application. What have I done now? I cannot run defrag from my Programs. It seems like I am getting in deeper. How do I fix this now?


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

If you send me your email address at this address [email protected] or post it here I'll send you a clean copy of defrag.exe.

I can only suspect that the self installing one you downloaded was a different version as I haven't seen one named NEWDEFRAG. Is it possible you downloaded a version for XP? Oh well, no problem. This good one is only 209 K so if you want it just let me know.

I assume you meant you renamed it defrag.exe not ME_Defrag.exe right? It has to be defrag.exe.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Yes, I did name it defrag.exe. You can email me at [email protected]. When I download it, should I copy over the one where I got the error message or create a new file?
Thanks


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

OK, it's on it's way.

Just copy over the one you have. Let us know how things work with this one.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Just sent you an email response, but wanted to let all know it didn't work. Still hangs at 33%. What could be wrong?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Let's see if you can get the hard disk diagnostics. Go here and download a utility called Dug_Ide to get the hard drive information. Then go to the manufacturer's web site and download the diagnostic tools. Possibly you have a problem. You have done everything on the list.

http://www.lurkhere.com/~nicefiles/index.html


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Before you try the DUG_IDE do you have the system specs which came with the computer? Maybe the information is listed there.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Here is the hard drive information I took from my computer. Is this what you are looking for? To me it doesn't say much. What now?
Drives and Storage Devices:
Generic IDE Disk Type 47 C: 7.9GB

Let me know what to try next?
Thanks much!!!!


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

No. That is too vague. Please go and Download Dug_Ide 
http://www.lurkhere.com/~nicefiles/index.html

to get the make and model. Then you can go to the manufacturer's website and download the disk tools. If you have a bad disk this will point that out.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

I dowloaded the DUG_IDE file. Instructions say to copy to a floppy so will do this and run. Will let you know. Thanks


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

See attachment. I hope this works. I wasn't sure. Let me know.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Donna, just sent you an e-mail. Sorry, had to go to the big city yesterday and just got back on-line. The email has pictures of what you should see. What you said in your mail made no sense. Not you, the outcome. You're doing fine.

Just so you know I think Mo is the cream of the crop so bear with us, we will get you up and running.

Questions:

You said earlier you did a thorough scandisk. How long did it take to complete and did you run it in windows or DOS?

You also said you can tell by the slowness of your system, etc., Just how slow and are there any other symptoms?

Last, do you know how large a hard drive is in your machine and if so and you open My Computer and single click on your Drive, does the correct "Capacity" show for your drive. You should see something like Free space 1.96GB capacity 4.76GB at the bottom.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I want to get this back in circulation cuz I need opinions. Donna has chosen to email me with some things because I think this was getting hard to follow.

We didn't have enough info and I've been able to get some so I'm going to post some excerpts. Would you look them over and see if you agree or disagree with my conclusions. I should tell you that I last had her download Belarc and asked her to send me the complete results which I will add here too but I wanted to get some input from you.

Here goes. 1st, it's more than just a defrag problem. She also has a machine that is taking close to one (that's a 1 folks) minute to open Control Panel or AOL for examples. I don't know how many other programs. She also gets an error masseage when starting AOL:

It says: 
AOL was unable to find one or more files needed by the AOL Media Player to play back audio or video files. To enable the AOL Media Player to play back all supported file types, please reinstall your AOL software. When I click OK though, it goes ahead and loads and I have all sounds. AOL help was no help as usual.

The defrag problem started before this so there may be no connection.

I had asker her for her drive numbers and she relpied with this:
Hard drive is 6.06 GB Used, 1.78 Free. Total Capacity: 7.85 GB

Mo, you asked aout the drive. This took some doing but here's what I have so far:

I have edited this to leave out tons of register entries that Wintune reported.

*This is all from Wintune*

Intel Pentium III
(1) 551 MHz
Windows 98 4.10.1998 
ATI Rage 128 GL AGP (English)
[email protected]/pixel

BIOS: Award 05/17/99
Bus: PCI,ISA
APM: Version 1.2 Flags 0x7
Possible 'hog' apps running: (none)
Other apps running: Increment/decrement repeat count; WinTune; WinTune; DDHelpWndClass; Creative Mixer Starter; MS_WebcheckMonitor

DirectX Version 600

Installed RAM (MB): 64
Free RAM (MB): 4
Memory used (%): 73

I also had her run a complete SFC, strangely, she got NO hits on Changed files or anything else. I had her run it twice, once with "Check for changed files" unchecked in settings and once with it checked just to make sure she was doing it correctly and nothing. Since it's never been run before I'm at a loss. There should be something.

She can get through a "thorough" scandisk in one hour with NO faults. That also seems strange considering that in a 24 hour period of running defrag with all programs closed, in safe mode, etc., her defrag stops at the same point, 33%, always, and refuses to go forward. That's true after I had her install the ME_Defrag too. Same result. Let me make it clear, it doesn't just start over as we've all seen time and again, it just stops there and accesses the drive continuosly.

Moving on. If you don't want to re-read the whole thread. The original question was defrag but I think it's a lot more. Someone, I think Davey, earlier suggest a virus. She has scanned but found none. I thought a possible bad sector but scandisk should have found it.

I thought corrupt system file but SFC found nothing, more strange SFC found no changed files.

OK, time for the big one. Any ideas LOL with a 

I really want to get her up and running. She's real nice, her 5 daughters want some Easter programs installed which I advised her not to do until she's clean and darn it, she's frustrated and I can't blame her.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

More info. 1st let me say this. Her Wintune report showed DirectX 6. I asked her to send me an image of her Dxdiag screen and it shows DirectX 8.

From this and her comments about loading games for her kids I wonder if one of them upgraded DirectX to v8.

I had a problem with 8 myself, eventually went back to 7. Has anyone heard of 8 causing this type of problem(s) ?

***********************************************
BELARC REPORT (edited for security)

Profile Date: Sunday, March 31, 2002 12:29:41
Advisor Version: 5.0m

System Model = PC On Call
Main Circuit Board =
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc.
4.60 PGMA 05/17/99

Processor = 
550 megahertz Intel Pentium III
32 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Operating System =
Windows 98

Drives =
8.43 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
1.99 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
E-IDE CD-ROM 40X/AKU Generic floppy disk drive (3.5")
Generic IDE hard disk drive (8.43 GB) -- drive 0

Memory Modules =
64 Megabytes Installed Memory
2 Memory Sockets are Empty

Controllers =
Standard Floppy Disk Controller
Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller
Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)

Printers =
Canon BJC-250 on LPT1:
Canon BJC-250 on LPT1:
Visioneer PaperPort	on LPT1:
Visioneer PaperPort Color on LPT1:

Display =
ATI Rage 128 GL AGP (English)
[Display adapter]
AcerView 11D [Monitor]
Plug and Play Monitor
Standard VGA 640x480 [Monitor]

Bus Adapters =
Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller

Multimedia = 
3Dfx Voodoo
Creative Gameport Joystick
Creative Labs Sound Blaster PCI128
Sound Blaster PCI128 Legacy DeviceWave Device for Voice Modem


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

There might be a disk problem which Win98 Scandisk is not detecting. I think going to the Hard Drive Manufacturer's site and downloading the disk tools, then running them should be tried.
All the usual methods have not worked. Did she run Dug_Ide to find the drive information?
Does she have the manual? If so, does it tell her who the maker is?


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Hi Mo. Yes, may be a disk problem alright but I can't get the disk maker info.

I'll have to download and run Dug_Ide myself I think so I know it and then walk her throught it and any drive software. I'll try it. No manual.

I'll go get the utility. bye


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Great. I have been reading and reading. It seems everything else has been tried. If not a disk problem, then I don't know. 
There is no other information out there. I hope the disk is ok. On the other hand...........................

Maybe another AV scan? Sometimes one is not enough.

That DirectX can't be good. I wold think a reinstall couldn't hurt to be sure the correct version is there.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

This could make a real job of using sfc, on the Advanced page there is the option to reset the verification table back to the original for Windows system files.

I wonder what her search criteria settings are? Where is SFC searching?


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Mosaic and Griffin
I concur with both of you that all normal and some extraordinary fixes have been tried. I suspect as both you do that the drive has a spot that Defrag is having a real problem with and cannot kick an error. Unfortunatly You may end up having to open the case to identify the drive. Drive Diagnostics is the only item left that will detect the problem you suspect. 
However, another thought is...now were reaching...what if Defrag is having a problem with a zip file. I have seen Defrag hang on zips before. It should kick an error 4, 5, 6, or 109 but its not. Has defrag been tried in DOS or did I miss that?
Dave


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Hi Dave,
You should not defrag in DOS. The risk is that all long file names will be lost.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I thought of going back to another AV scan too but haven't asked her yet. Probably should. This is her result from 2 SFC searches and one was all default settings.

Folders 217
Files examined 2003

everything else 0's

Now I can't guarentee the setting, not being there of course but I think she has a handle on this.

*If you're reading this Donna, sorry about talking as if you don't exist in the real world.*

I just ran DUG_IDE, pretty slick. I'll walk her through creating a bootable disk, etc., and also recommend a new AV scan. I have a feeling about DirectX 8. I had major headache with it. I went back to 7 but I'd hate to try to run her through a 3rd party uninstaller so if you agree (providing everything else checks out) I'll recommend going to ver 8.1. Supposedly that one is stable.

What do you think?


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Mosaic
Might be to risky! Oh well were reaching here anyway!
Thanks Dave


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

I've been following this thread, but with no input cos Mo and griff seemed to be on track.

I have a couple of additional things to try.
1. I have seen a thread somewhere with Defrag hanging due to CIH. You could try downloading and running the Symantec tool to check. The least it will do (and hopefully) will say that CIH wasn't found.

2. Run SCANDISK from DOS. (without autofix enabled)

3. When defrag hangs at the 33% mark, I "assume" the word "hang" means that the percentage is no longer increasing. As opposed to, defrag (or the PC) hangs and needs to be killed.

Ensure that the details window is displayed and then when it "hangs", scroll to the very end of the drive and see if you actually see defrag moving stuff around. (the disk light says something is happening). It "could" be, one extremely large file that defrag is moving out of the way, in order to defrag it. 
I realize that it has been allowed to run overnight, but this still could be the cause, IF, there is also something that is making it restart periodically.

This would at least confirm if defrag is actually trying to do something.

4. If all else fails, Run Scandisk from DOS again, but with the /Custom option. And, before doing so, change the scandisk.ini file to make NumPasses=5, and change all the FIXs to PROMPTs.

Fortunately, windows defrag is smart emough NOT to run in DOS, due to long file names.
Also, it shouldn't have trouble with ZIP files (or any other extensions), since it is doing the shuffle at the cluster level and could care less what is inside the cluster.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Hi, Davey. I was researching, reading email and typing while you posted so we got a little out of sync. Whew!

It may be a lot of things but I also noticed how little free space she has on that machine. I just mailed her and asked what's taking up so much disk space. It's unlikely from her explanation of what it's used for that she should have only 1.99 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space out of 8.43 GB usable drive space.

Any other ideas while I'm waiting?


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

Here's a couple more things to ponder.

A corrupt Applog Folder can cause this and

The symptoms also point to the FunLove Virus.


EDIT: Can't seem to get the URL correct. Might have to do a search for the FunLove information.


Kilowatt


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Griffin
If Space was a problem would She not be getting an "Not Enough Memory Error 9". I think WhitPhil had a great Idea when he mentioned is Defrag actually working and just hung on a very large file and slugging its way through! I do remember one of my machines that took better than 24 hours to successfully finish Defrag and the defrag was 85% to start.
We all could be barking up the wrong tree!
Dave


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

She could do a quick check with Find Files.
Ensure Look In is C:
Advanced Tab, Size is "At least", "40000" KB.

This would ferret out all files over 40MBs and see just what is out there.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

All food for thought. I got this much on the drive:

HDD-64G-WD
HDD-84I-WD

I'm getting the diagnostic utility now.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

All food for thought. I got this much on the drive:

HDD-64G-WD
HDD-84I-WD

I'm getting the diagnostic utility now.

I wasn't thinking of lack of space as much as some really large collection of bad files, temps, whatever. Just another stretch.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Just received this:
__________________________
I have Dr. Solomon Anti Virus but not up to date. They quit offering free upgrades when Norton took over. However, I run anti virus software from housecallantivirus.com and have never received an error message for a virus.
__________________________

Anyone know anything about housecallantivirus in terms of effectiveness?


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

Trend Micro Housecall generally does a pretty good job. It might be time to take a look at her startups in msconfig though. Has she tried the Applog folders files deletion?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

She can get free AV from

www.bootdisk.com

No one AV will always spot everything. I have had people swear they ran 3 Av's and checked out clean. They went out and ran another and found something.


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

KW:
She indicated in an early post that she had deleted applog, as per the MS note.

We could also have her run a StartLog if we want to confirm Starting apps, as well as the rest of the starting structure.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

No, I forgot the applog folder. My fault, I have 3 windows open and emailing like a banshee, instructions. I need nourishment. I just told her how to do it and to give scandisk and defrag a try after.

I'll post the result hopefully in about 30 minutes.

Thanks, all.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I keep falling behind the posts. I don't think she deleted the applog folder but I'll know in a minute.

I am going to have her do a virus scan too with Mo's link.


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

You are right Whit. I overlooked that she had already removed the Applog files. I have a feeling still that there is/was a virus involved.


Now I know what my old high school typing teacher meant when she said that my 20 WPM would not cut it!


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt1 _Now I know what my old high school typing teacher meant when she said that my 20 WPM would not cut it!
> 
> [/B]


 Oh boy, try keeping up with this group and an email fix all at once. Where's my Boodles !!!!!!!!!!


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

OK, thanks for sticking with us all of you. She now has the Western Digital diagnostic / repair tool and instructions on how to run it. 

She has deleted the applog folder for sure and re-tried a defrag with the same result.

She has approximately 800 MB in 40+ mb files

I've reviewed all installed apps from Belarc and she has nothing that can account for (just a guess here) 4 to 5 GB of drive space showing used. I haven't got her temp list yet so I don't know how much is there.

I've advised her to download and run the anti-virus software FREE _AV and then F-PROT if that doesn't work for her.

That's enough for tonight I'm bushed.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Update:

Ran additional anti-virus scan and it came out clean.

She has 11 40+ MB files totalling 2.5GB

1,560,491 My Backup
122,421 Win undo
81,920 swap file
61,773 ATC letter worksheets
89,247 objects.far (The Sims)
116,537 sounddata.far (The Sims)
77,414 themes.bk!
168,527 baseball 2001.he2
42,491 baseball 2001.he4
138,246 baseball 2001. (a)
64,532 highspeed demo (AOL extras)

Ran WD diagnostic with no problems found
DLGDIAG 4.12 - Data Lifeguard Diagnostic 

Current Date & Time: 4/01/2002, 09:12:39


******** Begin Quick Test 4/01/2002, 09:13:56 ********


Model: WDC AC28400R
S/N: WD-WM6281115635
Firmware: 17.01J17
C H S: 16383 16 63
Drive: 0
Baseport: 0X1F0
DCM: DVABLQPB
Build Date: 10-APR-99
Family: 24

Model: WDC AC28400R
S/N: WD-WM6281115635
Firmware: 17.01J17
C H S: 16383 16 63
Drive: 0
Baseport: 0X1F0
DCM: DVABLQPB
Build Date: 10-APR-99
Family: 24

Model: WDC AC28400R
S/N: WD-WM6281115635
Firmware: 17.01J17
C H S: 16383 16 63
Drive: 0
Baseport: 0X1F0
DCM: DVABLQPB
Build Date: 10-APR-99
Family: 24

Test stopped as of 4/01/2002, 09:15:09
Final Code For This Drive: 0000

******** Begin Extended Test 4/01/2002, 09:16:21 ********

Model: WDC AC28400R
S/N: WD-WM6281115635
Firmware: 17.01J17
C H S: 16383 16 63
Drive: 0
Baseport: 0X1F0
DCM: DVABLQPB
Build Date: 10-APR-99
Family: 24

SMART is ON.

Test stopped as of 4/01/2002, 09:28:18
NO ERRORS DETECTED FOR THIS DRIVE.
Final Code For This Drive: 0000
Test Complete.

_______________________________________

To sum up, drive seems to be OK, that's good news. No virus recorded with 2 different Anti-virus programs, also good news.

A heathy list of 40+ MB files, some may be necessary but not all. Anyone no any in that list. I'm not a gamer so I need help there.

My conclusions:

There may be a corrupted file(s) in here somewhere hanging the defrag and somehow slowing the opening of system apps and non-system apps (Control Panel and AOL for just 2)

Missing Windows system files

?????????????????/

Solutions:

Reformat and begin again (LAST RESORT)

Delete any and all unnecessary tmp files, backup files, installation leftovers, Windows demo mov, avi and mpg files, anything else you all can come up with. Basically clean it all.

Any other suggestions ????


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

I'd be suspicious of the large files.

Potentially, in order to defrag the 1.5 GB file, it could move 1.5 GBs of OTHER files, out of the way, and then have to move the 1.5 file back. That's a lot of clusters moving around.

Did she scroll to the bottom of the details window to note if there is really activity going on?
You should also be able to hear (normal) noise from the drive.

Have her try
Start > run > *Defrag /Q*

In "theory" this will defrag the free space only, resulting in a contigous area of free space, but still with fragmented files.
Then, if that completes

Essentially 42% of her in-use, is comprised of those 11 large files. With only 1.8 free, defrag can't move all of them out of the way before it moves them back in their unfragmented state. Thus, there is a lot of data being moved around.

Creating more available space on the drive should also help.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Very nice call WhitPhil, I agree. I just sent her this email:

Got your messages. Believe it or not that's all pretty good news. The drive's OK, none of the major viruses and you can use your apps to some degree.. I never got the temp file report though and am still curious.

Here's the next step. Open your recycle bin and look at each file ( I hope there aren't 3000) organize it by location so you can immediately get rid of all AOL or other browser cache files. Any word documents that you know you want deleted. Any game leftovers you know you wanted gone. Any program leftovers you know you wanted gone. The last 2 are important to think about. Some folk think that the way to get rid of a program is to just remove the folder. I think you probably did it the right way, using Add/Remove from the control panel but I HAVE TO BE SURE BEFORE YOU DELETE ANYTHING OUT OF THE RECYCLE BIN.

Uppercase typing means this is really important. You must be honest and let me know since that kind of error CAN cause these kinds of problems so write me back if that's what you did, we can repair it.

If all the stuff in there is useless then dump it all.

Next do the Find for *.tmp we wrote about yesterday. When you get the list organize it by date last modified. Highlight and delete all except ones dated today, if you do it today, which I hope you do since if we wait I'll lose track of all we've done. delete all others to the recycle bin. Boot up once so you no everything you deleted wasn't needed.

Next do a find *.CHK find and delete all hits.

Open the recycle bin and dump every thing in it now.

Ok, now look at what programs you have that are not ever used and using Add/Remove, uninstall them.

What we are doing is cleaning out the possible files that are harming your system.

That's good for now. Try and keep a record of the size of the Recycle bin entries before you dump them. That info's at the bottom when the window is open. Let me know how much disk space we recovered and in what categories; tmp, chk, etc.

Write me back at this address till tonight.

Pete

PS: You're doing real well, keep at it. It's a process of elimination now.


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

Ok guys. I'm going to hang in there. Thanks to everyone for all of your help. Question??? Sometime ago I found this program called More Space Utility from Contact Plus Corp. (downloaded from CNET or ZDNet. Don't remember. Never did anything with it because it scared me to death. Way over my head and didn't what to get rid of. Anyway, does anybody have any experience with this and is it something I could use. Thanks again.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Donna, No don't add it or any other new programs. If I read between the lines right, that's a disk compression tool. That could make matters even worse.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Do any of you see something abnormal here?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

She has a backup on the drive. That's very large. Windows is huge. What does she have in there?


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Thank you Mo, I was sure I was nuts. I've never seen a Windows folder like that even with the cab files included in C:\windows\options\cabs I can't figure it. I just wanted a second on it.

She didn't even know she had the backup either so that can go as well as the winundo. I sent her a small utility I have to get that info, Disk Data. Now I'll have to get the contents of the Windows folder.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

You're welcome. This is incredible. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Everything else has been ruled out. So a file problem has to be it.


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

Under windows you have
\Temp
\Temporary Internet Files
\History
\Cookies
\Application Data\Microsoft\OutLook Express

If the caches haven't been cleaned, and deleted folder emptied and mailboxes compacted, this will certainly eat up some space.

A visit to Mr. Del Tree in DOS may be in order.

BUT, if she does not require that huge backup file, I would be willing to bet that if you delete it, defrag will run. (the undo file may have to go too. Whatever that is)

**She isn't running GoBack is she? I have no idea what it's backup file is called, but it would be rather large.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

WhitPhil,
Hi. One quick addition. If they visit Mr Deltree in Dos, I think starting smartdrv would be something to consider to speed things up or they may be there for a long long time. Those files are humongous.


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

Agreed, agreed.
Otherwise, could be slightly ssslllllooooowwww!


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Points taken. We have deleted the backup and the winundo is shortly history. I've already done all cache files and TMP, CHK, BAK and God nose what else.

Check this out though. Has anyone ever seen this highlighted folder in the Windows folder before?????

EDIT: PS:


> the undo file may have to go too. Whatever that


 That is a set of files so you can uninstall Win98 and go back to a previous operating system. I think we're dealing with a machine that was upgraded from Win95 or maybe even 3.1.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Do you mean the Profiles folder? Sure. If multiple users are set up. And it could get very large if they each have their own desktops and favorites etc. Plus there would be a user.dat per user too in each of the identity folders in profiles.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I'd forgotten about profiles, I never use them, lucky I guess but that size ??


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Have her open the folders and see what's in there.

Directions to remove user profiles.http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q156826


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I just asked her whether everyone in the family has there own profile or if that's a leftover from some previous owner or setup. Thanks for the link.

PS: Also thanks for sticking with me on this, all of you. It may be kind of disconcerting for you to get it all relayed from me but she was having trouble with some of the different terms, theories and I think a little intimidated.

This seems to be working.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

No problem. There was a lot of input. You sound like you are doing it step by step and that's what this needs. The Hard drive was terribly cluttered.

I wonder if she should boot to DOS and delete the swap file. Do a scanreg /opt and then go back into Windows and do the defrag. If she has removed a lot of Programs she really should optimize the registry. 

That is, when she's ready.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I hadn't thought of deleting the swap. Not a bad idea. I was going to ship her RegCleaner and do a scanreg /opt after although I'm always nervous about giving utilities like Recleaner to novices but she got through the drive diagnostic and Disk Data well.

So far we've rid ourselves of 3.9gb's of stuff. She actally has a drive and I still haven't found out about the profiles. That's another huge amount of space.

I don't think defrag was designed for what she had / has. LOL.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

If she deletes all the profiles, it's easy. It isn't hard even to do a few. The directions are very straightforward.

So long as she creates the backup file a registry cleaner will be good. If there's a problem she can restore it. Just a simple cleaning and nothing facny. She'll do fine. Sounds like she has had a crash course. 

You deserve a medal.


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## indigowindow (Oct 25, 2001)

another good (and safer) reg cleaner is the one that comes with iolo system mechanic. it's free for a thirty day trial period. also comes with junk file remover, removes invalid uninstaller info, removes or fixes invalid shortcuts, and under INTERNET-INSURE YOUR PRIVACY, deletes various caches. 

would not advise to "optimize your internet settings" or "delete duplicate files."


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

There is still a bunch of clutter under \Windows.

1. 24MBs in \TIF
2. 138MBs in \Temp
3. 114MBs in \Fonts (says there are certainly an excessive number here). I don't think this causes a performance problem, but it could do with a FontManager. (arbitrary deletes are bad for your health)

A DOS deltree of \TIF, \Cookies, \History is probably in order. Also, in case you haven't warned her, remember to empty the recycle bin.

I also note that the registry is a good size 8MBs. A registry clean is probably a good idea, but I would leave it to phase 2/3. You don't want to be making too many changes at once.

"I don't think defrag was designed for what she had "
I don't think it would have been an issue on a larger drive. With more available space, defrag could have moved more out of the way at once. On the smaller drive, it is forced to work harder, by moving a bit at a time.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by WhitPhil _
> *There is still a bunch of clutter under \Windows.
> 
> 1. 24MBs in \TIF
> ...


 Well hold your breath, the next post will have a defrag and app start up test result.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

And the answer is !!!



> Pete,
> Did all steps and yes, it defragged. It took awhile and there was a lot of moving around. But it finished beautifully.
> 
> I presume you will pass on this info to all those who have helped on the board and PLEASE LET EVERYONE KNOW HOW MUCH THEIR EFFORTS AND INPUT HAVE BEEN
> ...


I am going to now walk her though a few minor details and give her a primer on keeping things clean but hey, it works. Thanks one and all.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

That's incredible. Did she use the ME defrag? That was fast. 

You both deserve a rest after this one.

I feel like we have been waiting for a baby to be born. 


Great work. You did it.



Mo


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

Congrats guys (&gals). 
Glad to hear that it's all resolved.

The "keeping things clean" primer is definitely important on smaller drives. (LOL a couple of years ago, this *wasn't* a smaller drive!)


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Mosaic1 _
> *That's incredible. Did she use the ME defrag? That was fast.
> 
> You both deserve a rest after this one.
> ...


 Thanks and yes ME Defrag, with the settings NOT to move the apps to the front. I figured that could wait if ever, why push our luck. One more thing Control Panel and AOL as well as the other programs are opening in about 1 second. Beats the heck out of 1 to 2 minutes.

Rest and a stay at a spa


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## donaco (Mar 5, 2002)

MANY, MANY, MANY THANKS TO ALL WHO HUNG IN THERE WITH ME. I think we're ready to get back to normal operation thanks to everyone (especially P). 
"The Defrag Lady"


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

*Excellent Work Everyone!*
Such a fine example of team work and brainstorming!
Couldn't be more proud of you all!
And to Donaco.......Extra kudos for sticking in there and working hard to get this problem solved! Just to let you know many people would of given up and taken their computer in and had someone fix it, which of course would probably have meant a format and install!
Well Done!
Dave


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