# Price for Frontpage site



## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

What would you guys charge for this site?? I'm just starting to create sites, and am wondering what to charge.
www.sarahsteinberg.netfirms.com


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## Rockn (Jul 29, 2001)

What do you mean charge for it? Charge her as a customer? It is pretty cheesy and it is a cookie cutter front page web site. Make it personal and inviting...no flashing lights, make sure content is consistent and navigation is easy. If you can get rid of the banners at the top by all means do.


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

Thanks, Rockn. I appeciate your honest opinion. Better now?


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## deuce868 (Nov 2, 2000)

Raphael, we all start there so don't worry. I look back at some of my first sites and cringe a bit, but I was proud then. =)

As far as this site goes here are some tips:

1. Ditch frontpage as soon as possible. It is great for something quick and dirty and to start out playing with, but the sooner you let go of the crutches the faster you will find yourself getting better.

2. Look around at other sites more and see how they handle layouts.

3. I have never been a fan of entry pages. If I go to a website it is because I am looking for some sort of information and all an entry page does is get in the way.

4. on your index1.htm page...it seems completely busy. What I would do would be to float: right the picture you have on the entry page all nice and big and then have all of those pieces of text that have their own images as some sort of bullet list that the text would flow around the image on the right.

http://www.msufame.msu.edu/test/psychology/index.asp is an example of this...in the body there is a Consortium logo that the text flows around.

5. Ditch the counter, if you want some sort of hidden one that you can check for stats then that is great, but is has pretty much went the way of the dodo bird.

6. I know you are hosting this on a free server, so get her to purchase a real webhost and ditch ads. You should be able to find one for less than $10 a month that supports FP extensions until you can get rid of them.

7. Check out some of these great web resources.

www.sitepoint.com
www.webmonkey.com
www.thepattysite.com
http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-3881.html

Like I said, have fun with this and learn all you can. Hopefully this helps you out a bit.

As to the original what to charge question....it always comes down to time. How much is your time worth? The more you know and the better you do the more it is worth. It really is something you have to figure out for yourself when you start out.


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

Thanks for your help, deuce868.
Originally, I had done the float, but she really liked the bullets better. 
As far as ditching FrontPage, what do you recommend, DreamWeaver? Or is HTML the way to go.
I am begging her to go for ads free, that would be only $5 a month with Netfirms, wait and see what happens...


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

As far as going ad free, if she wants to buy a domain name, if you get it from Doteasy.com, you get the domain and free business hosting for $15.00 a year . Thats a good deal without the hosting even.


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## deuce868 (Nov 2, 2000)

Be careful though. I bought a domain for $9 before. The problem was I didn't own it, they did. At the end of the year they renewed it and wanted to charge me, but I wanted to take my name somewhere else...so I had to change the domain name and go somewhere else. 

Read the fine print.


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

Doteasy is up to $25.00 a year, for a .com, plus a few bucks a month if you are using FrontPage. I guess another reason to get rid of FrontPage!!
Btw, deuce898, how did you create your two sites?? They are excellent!!!


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## deuce868 (Nov 2, 2000)

> Btw, deuce898, how did you create your two sites??


By making LOTS of bad ones first!

I have a whole portfolio of sites I look back at now and go....what was I thinking??

Actually the best thing to do is read like a madman, surf a lot, and experiment. The ricks-web.info site is on layout #4 over the past year.

If you were looking for what software I use...it depends on what I am working on. My arsenal includes:
Dreamweaver MX
Topstyle Pro
AceHTML
PhpEdit
Metty
Fireworks
The occasional opening of notepad
and a good IM client to keep bugging my friends..."So how does this look now..."


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

Thats too bad doteasy went so expensive. Used to be a good deal and yes they do give you full ownership of the domain.


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## Anne Troy (Feb 14, 1999)

Our dear host RIGHT HERE does hosting.

See www.radiotower.net for Mikey's hosting plans.
Cheapest you can get right now is $90/year for 25MB and 5 emails. For FrontPage extensions, you need at least the Standard plan, which is $150/year for 50MB and like 10 emails...you can add a database to the standard too. You know what? You can buy cheaper web hosting. BUT YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE THAT IS DOWN AS SELDOM AS THIS ONE. Been there. Learned that.

Also, you can buy domain names that belong to you from www.gkg.net for $9.95. I own about 8 of them. NONE of them are hosted by gkg. Some are hosted by RadioTower.

As for the people who want to go on and on about not using FrontPage, I'd like to just say something here.

There are people who can code and there are people who cannot or do not care to learn. For those of us who don't like coding, there is FrontPage.

For EXCELLENT FrontPage themes--and gazillions of them, go to www.ClassyThemes.com. In about a week or two the entire site will be updated and a whole bunch of new themes will be out.

This website, as yet incomplete due to lack of input from the client, was made with FrontPage, using a theme from ClassyThemes, is hosted by Mikey here at TSG, and has a Flash intro that my husband added: www.NoFearFireGear.com

Here's another, same thing, no Flash: www.MoreFreedomOnline.com

Raphael: Even tho I agree with Rock'n, you keep plugging away, okay? Don't hesitate to email me if you got questions.


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

Thanks Dreamy.
gkg.net is definitely the cheapest domain registration that I've found so far.
As far as hosting is concerned, netfirms and doteasy are really much cheaper, although you are correct, I can't vouch for their reliability.
I changed the site background, really like the new one, is there anything else that you feel really has to be changed? Or do I have to start creating tables, and rearranging my whole layout.
Btw, YSB asked I should say hi.


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

Raphael you didnt by any chance start the hit counter at 2099 did you??? Thought so. 

I think the site looks pretty good but im not a professional at that sort of thing. One thing I did notice is the click to enter thing. I hate those, and if you decide you want it you should try to make it look the same as the main page of the site.


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

Thanks, brendandonhu.
So, what would you charge for this site?


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

I have absolutely no clue how much to charge for a site. And usually those fade page Javascript things are pretty cheesy to the user so you might want to give the information the person wants instead of changing colors, bells and whistles.


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## Anne Troy (Feb 14, 1999)

r:

I wrote this big long thing about that web and even created a NEW web *look* that I felt would be more fitting. But you never emailed. Er.....I mean....I wasn't picking up my mails!!!!! [ Expletive here ]

So I since trashed it.

Anyway, I'm well known for my outspokenness, so please don't take this personally. You asked. So I'm going to be honest. (Some people actually appreciate it, do ya believe it!!??)

1. It looks like you're trying to show off your FrontPage skills instead of putting some thought into design. Use YOUR web to provide FrontPage skills samples.

2. Most people don't like the gaudy look.

3. Make the background of ALL pages the same.

4. Get rid of the black. However, here, I took her picture and put it on a completely black background with an ENTER hyperlink. I put the pix on the left, the ENTER in red text on the right of the screen. THAT picture is ONLY good on a black background, but they're VERY hard to read, so I think you should flaunt it on the front page, and be done with that picture. You don't have to keep showing her picture again and again. If you had several pictures of her, I might change my mind, but it appears you only have the one, and it kind of blatantly broadcasts that fact.

5. She's a woman. She's not a sleazy band. Put her name in ONE GOOD WEB font and leave it in that font. Quit goofing around with different fonts. The pages don't FLOW.

6. Make all your menus/navigations the SAME. You don't have many, so don't let that come through by putting so many different navigation types. Just put them on the first page (the one you take them to after hitting ENTER). Probably the left side is best because you really don't have much content. People don't want to look around for what they want to click on. People will recognize colors for things like menus. Put her NEXT appearance on EVERY page if you can. Stuff like that.

7. Don't worry so much about filling the pages. Don't duplicate stuff or make it BIG just to fill up the page. WHITE SPACE IS GOOD.

8. I suggest you use black and white. Make the bullets be some kind of musical note or something like that in black. White background. Use a nice crimson red for her name. Maybe put ONE sparkly thing on her name (I'll make you a *logo* for her name if you don't have a decent graphics program).

I hope you don't feel beat up, Raphael. I only mean to help. I will be happy to work with you behind closed websites (hee hee) to help you get an ELEGANT look for her web.


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## DJ [email protected] (Aug 8, 2001)

> *deuce said:*
> and a good IM client to keep bugging my friends..."So how does this look now..."


I am with you 100% on that


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## websurfer (Jun 24, 2002)

The first page looks a little wierd. Try centering everything on it. Not to be a pest but, the music background that is on the front page would look good on the rest, too. Now a neat little trick, when you get into your html code look for this: 0 being the numberor letter that is there. In your case the background is black (#000000).Now add this tag "bgproperties=fixed". Now it should look somewhat like this: .


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## websurfer (Jun 24, 2002)

Sorry I don't know why but my last messege didnt turn out.


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

You can't type HTML code into the messages. To post code click the PHP button and type it there to show something like this:

```
0 being the numberor letter that is there. In your case the background is black (#000000).Now add this tag "bgproperties=fixed".  Now it should look somewhat like this: .
```
Thats the end of your post that did not show.


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## websurfer (Jun 24, 2002)

Yep!


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

Now what exactly does that do?


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## Raphael (Jun 20, 2001)

dreamboat,

Thanks for taking the time for me.
Yes, I did send you an e mail. And most of your recommendations have been discussed with the client. She does want to look like a sleazy band, and she LOVES the black background. And I am waiting for her to bring in SOME MORE PIX!! So... I'm considering this case CLOSED!!
Thanks again, and sorry that it took so long to respond.
Raphael


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## aliisa (Nov 14, 1999)

_"As for the people who want to go on and on about not using FrontPage, I'd like to just say something here...."_ 

Dreamboat, look at the upper icons on your http://www.morefreedomonline.com/welcome.htm page (and subsequent pages). They don't turn over in Mozilla 1.1, and no images on the pages have a "title" attribute.

Is this because your Frontpage has limited cross-broswer abilities?

Don't shoot the messenger, just my four pennies worth.


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## Anne Troy (Feb 14, 1999)

No problem.

The problem with that web is that the owner is not coming across with any material. I'm not fixing anything until that occurs. 

Also, according to my site stats, two websites with combined 2500 VISITS/month. NO ONE using mozilla has hit either this month, which tells me it must be a tremendously small portion of the population that are using it.


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## Snake~eyes (Apr 18, 2002)

I don't really have to comment since most of it has been said.

Honestly I would charge 10 dollars... max.

But I recommend checking out www.pixeljunction.com

A place I like to hang out where you can learn a bit more about grahpics and design then you can here.

Pixel junction is dedicated to design.


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## brendandonhu (Jul 8, 2002)

Couple minor things I noticed:
On the Enter Here page, you have text below the image, but its aligned with the left side of the image. Try to place it so it appears more centered compared to the image, as oppsed to centered on the page. I don't know if you will understand that, but I can't explain better. Also professional web sites shouldnt use hit counters.


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