# Windows 8 Start menu



## Pentium1996 (Oct 5, 2011)

Did any body use *third party* software get the start menu back in Windows *8*?

The programs I have tried:

-Stardock Start8
-Classic Shell

I like Classic Shell better because you can get back the Windows 9x/2k start menu with a metro style look.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

I used Classic Shell and like it, it makes 8 use pratical on a desktop.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I'll stick with Windows7 and mess with the garbage. 

Seriously, by buying Windows8 and fixing it yourself with these Menu-patches - You are rewarding Microsoft for this mess.

Its kind of like when you bought a PC with XP installed, instead of Vista... The OEM pays for Vista which has "downgrade" rights... those count as Vista sales.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

Never said I was going to buy it. In fact I'm thinking of buying a couple of extra Win 7's.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

Where is the "mess". You have a choice of the new Metro graphical start, or you can install a third party menu (not a patch, just a program) as I am sure you have done many time before with previous windows, to overcome limitations with their built in programs. It certainly helps Microsoft to avoid future monopoly/copyright complaints from the whining Euro government. Lol


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## Pentium1996 (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm sticking with Windows 7 too, but i was just finding out other options.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Metro is a mess, it'll work for some - but not for most. With my Win8 notebook which I show to people - with some, they flat out refuse it after 2-3 minutes. I was pro-Win8/Metro (Love it on my phone) until I actually used it. I re-installed it again on a notebook to give it another chance, a more open mind... It will stay for at least 3 months.

I'm not stupid, I can handle "different" - Android and iOS are different from Windows, I'm not freaking out on them. But GUI designs are made for the form-factor. Apple didn't create the smart-phone market... MS has had a windowsPhone/PDAs for about 10 years. You know what, they sucked because the UI was a desktop stuck onto a 4" screen. Now, MS is sticking a phone UI onto a desktop.

I was really excited about the concept of a new OS/UI, a new way of using the desktop. It also means that MS would jettison old win9x and NT code within 2-3 more releases. But no, Windows8 is a mess... there is no migration, there is no transition concepts for people to work with. They changed the user experience for the desktop for the sake of chance, not for improvement. Win7 added and changed things from Vista/XP - which is WHY it rocks. Its simple, MS could simply have had Metro Apps run on top of the Win8 desktop in their own little windows (not full screen) and have their Win8 tablet/phone versions.

The fact that MS ripped out the start menu code and other things to make it difficult for people to use MS-OS the way they want... shows disrespect to their own customers.

"You have a choice of the new Metro~" there is a difference in adding your own skin or gadgets to your OS... vs installing a stable feature that has been around for almost 20 years. Most people will not deal with this or know they can fix Windows 8. And this is the thought that comes to mind "Why do I need to fix the OS itself"?

Ever eat a crappy meal? Order a drink or dessert that is wrong, taste bad? When I was younger, I was go "oh well" - after a few times of that, eating something that I'm not happy about. I refuse it. I cancel my order, get my money back (if they have it) and walk out. That is my choice, I'll take my money and my business away rather than eat it.

Not really seeing the Start menu being a problem with the EU. But they may have new issues with the EU concerning Win8 and IE10.

Stardock8 has some cool functions, but at least in their video - its still work in progress. One of the neat-things they do is that their Start Menu button can be configured to bring METRO into the start menu... Which is A LOT better than the full screen mess.

The Start Screen becomes useless if you spend most of your time on the desktop... all of its notifications, apps and gadgets don't show up... so its pointless. Then MS has pulled ALL gadgets from Windows7/8... (some BS reason), gee, any program you install COULD be a virus, duh. The gadgets I use on Windows7 are mo productive and functional than the live tiles which can only be SEEN in Metro Mode.

The start button is still there in Windows8, its just a tiny hidden button in the corner - something an idiot thought of... oh yeah, you are supposed to have a tablet with a Windows button on it. "or just use your keyboard"?? So you may have to go from mouse to keyboard to mouse again. Just hiding makes it Windows8 stupid.

A good idea would have been a hybrid start menu. In which it looks mostly like the Win7 Start Menu - but the Left Pane is Metro with two columns, your mouse wheel scrolls it up and down (makes more sense) so it looks just like a Win7 phone. Clicking All programs gets the normal menu.

I think StarDock is going to get a lot of traffic to their site... they used to be a much more well known company in the Win3~Win9x era.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

No antagonism is intended. This is , hopefully, an exchange of views. Possibly, your word "disrespect" is applicable, but I would prefer to say that that Microsoft were negligent in not , more clearly, explaining the potential of 8 on a tablet or desktop.
I don't think the transition from Windows 7, ignoring the Metro for the moment, is nearly so dramatic as that from XP to Vista/7, but maybe that is the subject of another thread.
To apply a small, and free, third party program, in order to make Windows 8 operate in the more accustomed and well known way, is not, to me, a big deal. As an accomplished user, you are well aware of the vast number of posts on the Windows 7 and Vista forums, asking for i formation on how to return to the more familiar XP start menu. Your analogy to eating a meal you dislike is well taken. I don't think Windows 8 is going to change dramatically, so your own choice is there. Nothing wrong with Windows 7, so stay with it.
The invisible "Start button"? Well, maybe new users on Windows 7 or earlier, wondered where you went after arriving at the desktop?

I have just published an article, in which I state, imo, that it is, indeed, a replacement for the start menu, and, for new users, if they accept that concept, it becomes easier to use. The "All Apps" is the extra selections you get, if you open the default folders in the Windows 7 start menu. 
When I booted up, I arrived at a desktop - fine. (Exactly, even, as in a linux distribution) It has never crossed my mind that the little globe, bottom left, was any other than where I started to look to go further into my applications. ie. "The Start menu". (Unless, of course, I had all my shortcuts set up in the taskbar and desktop - not my practice.)
However, for what it is worth, this is how I see the "Metro" . fwiw, I am reproducing my article/comments, in entirety, partly in defense of Windows 8, but mainly to show my own, successful, use of the OS. I have skipped the two images here, as they are not of importance.
_
"I read, all over the web, comments regarding the dislike for the forthcoming Windows 8, and in particular, and in fact almost exclusively, criticism of the (as it was called) Metro.. I am urged to print my own thoughts on the subject.
My first comment is that, whilst, from the beginning, Microsoft and followers have touted the Metro as the new desktop, this was a mistake. I cannot see it as such. To me it is a new, graphical, Start menu. It is designed, primarily, for touchscreens, but there is no reason why it cannot, with a little compromise, be adjusted for normal mouse use.
The following is based on those thoughts. I am indicating how I have found a use for it, or an alternative method of successfully using Windows 8. The OS is an advancement on Windows 7, in performance, but not enough, in my opinion, to warrant the purchase of it - particularly for mass purchasers.
However, here I go. two basic methods. One for those who would like to try and use the Metro Start menu, another for those who want to be more familiar in old surroundings.
*
Metro users.*_ _
Let me ask, here, do you, users, really have a daily requirement for all of those apps which are put into the old legacy menu, and now Metro. Those who are heavily into graphic operations may need more than me, and there are other aspects of computer use with the same need. But I have eliminated mine to ten programs I use in my daily work.
So, on the Metro screen, let us right click an app icon. A bar menu appears on the bottom, like this:

















__

Here, as you can see, you can Unpin it, which tucks it away. You can even Uninstall it if that is the way you want to go. Even better, which really is concerned with my next section, you can Pin it to the start._ _
When you have done this, you can rearrange the remaining icons, in your preferred order.

Now comes a partly hidden function. Click, over on the bottom right, the small minus sign. Now you will have a miniaturised picture of your Metro. Right click any of the groups, which you have prearranged. Another bar menu! You can name those groups._ _
As I stated, I have eliminated mine to a mere ten items, but for the purpose of this Demo, here is my full Metro, on a complete and new installation:

















_ _

So, there we have a graphical start menu. What about all those unused apps. - Just right Click on the Metro, and, bottom right, is some text "All Apps". Click there and you have a whole bunch of every app on your computer._ _
Now, if you click any app, on your Metro all "All Apps" Window, it will open in the normal way. But, if you close it, you will find yourself on the legacy desktop. Bu***ger. But click the "Windows" key, and you are back in your Metro Start menu.
That is all, in the context of this post, there is to say on the use of the Metro

*You don't want Metro.*_ _

Fair enough. If you click the Desktop icon, in Metro, you will find yourself on the legacy desktop. Darn, its totally empty. No problem, it is customisable in exactly the manner to which you've been used to - right click and "personalise"._ _
But where is the good old start menu? A big omission, on Microsoft's part, to omit that. But no problem again.
Download and install the well known "Classic Menu".

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/_ _

This is incredibly customisable,. It even has a choice of start orbs. Within the options is one which enables a user to boot straight through to the desktop, bypassing the Metro completely. Classic, can be set up almost 100% to emulate the old Windows 7 menu.
But maybe you would like to use one of the other third party start menus? There are several around, if you google, but I don't think, imho, that they compete with the Classic. If, again, that is the road you wish to take, forget about the "Classic" download and install the attached little gem. Select the option to bypass the Metro. Install your own menu.
One last. If you want to persist, and use the facilities available, right click in the bottom left corner of the desktop.. This popup has become known as the "Power" menu. It is also customisable, but this involves a little hacking and manipulation, and I don't consider it to be the subject of this post.
That's about it, but a comment for your thoughts.

In Windows 7, for example, you are in and using an App. You close it and wish to go to another App.
1. Click the Orb.
2. Click "All programs"
3. Click your desired shortcut.
3 clicks.

In Windows 8
1. Click the "Windows" key
2. Click your shortcut Icon.
-See the difference.

I should also add that my personal use of a computer, often takes me to a situation where I need to have several windows open on the desktop. This cannot be done with Metro Apps - so far. To me, the solution was simple - I don't use them. You can find a wealth of alternative, non metro apps on the web, which can accomplish the same things. I have weakened and downloaded a couple of time wasters from the "Store" , Card games and Backgammon as two examples
There are other aspects of Windows 8, which users could comment on. IMO, it has a slightly improved performance. I would not consider that improvement enough to warrant its purchase, particular for an office with a multi purchase requirement. And, of course, even for a desktop user, I cannot grasp the idea of the average secretary typing on a touchscreen - lol. - but that is an option.

Good luck. I _ hope it will work for you, but do try and have fun exploring the possibilities I have mentioned"

P.S. (Later) One or two enquiries regarding my images, so I have now inserted them.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Right on, Dave. 



> To me it is a new, graphical, Start menu.


On a desktop or laptop, agreed. On a small tablet for people who are only consuming (not producing) media it is probably both "desktop" and Start menu.



> Now comes a partly hidden function. Click, over on the bottom right, the small minus sign. ...


Thank you! You showed your results in another thread, but I never figured out how you had done that. Now I can get to work organizing in earnest (the next time I boot Windows 8).


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Thanks Dave for your insight and your information. There is a way for you to embed those images here... would be helpful to others.

I also HIGHLY recommend that the information you just posted (after editing of context) is turned into a STICKY at the top, as many people will be asking the same question.

On to my opinion & observation thou... the end-user, who has just bought a Windows8 PC or myself who works for various clients... shouldn't have to "fix" the OS. Metro is idiotic because its so jarring, it doesn't actually do much different from the Start Menu. It takes up the whole screen and is not efficient. I am all FOR improving the UI - but they have to be actual improvements... like "wow, that is a really good idea". Moving the shut-down button from the Start button to some charm to the right side that is under settings - makes no sense, it stupid. I feel like I'm using a product designed by stupid people. When I move my mouse to get to the charm, sometimes it slides, out, sometimes it doesn't - sometimes I DON'T want the stupid charm. Same for the hidden start button. I have a mouse for a reason, maybe I'm not on a keyboard. Why should I have to fight for a tiny hidden spot to click on? Why not just make all click-able items into a single-pixel element? Its not like there are space issues on the task bar.

They could have simply left the desktop ALONE... not too much to ask for, eh? When installing onto a tablet, the charms and junk can be turned on... if really needed... or do both, or options for what the person wants.

About the hidden charms and buttons... its a design flaw. On mobile OSes, there is a button or indicator of what you need to do. Like on the iphone, yeah - we all know how to Slide to unlock, yet it says "Slide to Unlock". You know where to put your finger. Same as on Android... you can slide to Phone, messaging, Camera... and it shows you with visual clues. Even Metro on WP7 HAS visual clues. There is an arrow which tell you to either PRESS it to go to ALL apps or you can swipe to it... right next to it, is the FIND button. Wow, good idea.

But with Windows8... you don't get anything. How is the avg. Joe supposed to know RIGHT click to get to ALL Apps, then you click on it. Or that the Taskbar on desktop has nothing to do with the tasks in Metro as well as the other way around. Metro apps should have be designed to run like tasks on the taskbar for desktop systems.

Yet, even Android has a few hidden functions... I didn't know for the longest time that a LONG-HOLD on HOME = running Tasks. This was fixed in Android 4.0 with an icon.

I've worked with clients for many many years. I've shown them over and over again how to use CTRL-C, V, X, Z, F, etc.... and most never get it. Win8 is so badly done, that MS now sells Windows8 keyboards with metro-shortcut keys built into the top row. In my mind, that is a SIGN OF BAD DESIGN. "Windows 8 is built with touch in mind, but you'll find it faster with keyboard short-cuts" is a big red flag in my book.

The hidden Start button is a little problem along with other issues with Windows 8. Besides the Win8 Desktop is butt-ugly. I grew up with Amiga and 2/4/16 color GUI systems... I have no need or desire to go back to those days. Metro on the phone works very nice because of the limited space... I use Metro on my Android phone 2.x. But after using Android 4.0 on my future phone, I'm not going to put metro on it... the functions of Android are more valuable then the bigger tiles of WP7.

I'm glad there that there is an option for the Start Menu FIX... I know how to get the work-arounds for Win8. But why should I do this? Metro is a task sucking up memory and resources as that point. And if people don't like Win8, they shouldn't buy it. Why reward MS for releasing a half-baked product?

If you look back at Windows7 - during its preview and its release. You will not find any posts like this. Here are the first Win7 posts from this site: http://forums.techguy.org/86-windows-7/index545.html?daysprune=-1

Its not just me or a few people who do not like Metro. Its most people, not all... but most. When I read posts like yours, I think "maybe I'm being being narrow minded." The install of Win8 on my notebook is the 2nd time. For the most part, I'm happy to not use it at all. With Windows7, I couldn't get XP off fast enough.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

I sit and bounch my mouse off the right hand of the screen trying to get the menu too, it usually takes 30 seconds to 1 minute to get it. That is one of the reasons I installed classic shell.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I should have stated that I am using the RTM (Technet), but I have been using the outlined method(s) in the earlier releases.
It is not my intention to agree, or disagree, with the complaints and difficulties of other users. I felt an urge to show what I am doing, and with which I am finding a little satisfaction.
Unfortunately, for me, there are also comments and criticism of the use of Windows 8 with a tablet. I do not own a tablet, so have to take those comments as gospel. As a pensioner, with a minimum income (not a gripe - lol), I have to say, also, that I do not have a touch screen, nor am I likely to ever have one. So the "joy" of that usage, I also cannot comment on!

Scrolling down through the post ("Compiler"), I arrived at this comment,

"_*If you look back at Windows7 - during its preview and its release. You will not find any posts like this."
*_
True. But, for comment, I was invited into the Beta testing program with the introduction of Vista. Vista was a radical change from XP. The navigation was a radical change, as were several new features, (including the Start Menu). Although I had previously been a heavy contributor to XP help forums - particularly here, under another name - I got deep into Vista and, with many others, feel I contributed greatly to the eventual success of Windows 7. Vista was a good intro to Windows 7, and by the time the latter arrived, I think it was a breeze for the majority of users, to move forward. 
My own idea is that this was the main reason for the lessening of complaints, when it was released.

But, to be fair, when I browse the existing, and better known, Windows 8 forums, I do not see an overwhelming number of complaints, other than those centered around the Metro and start menu. And NO. You are not narrow minded, but perhaps you should give your own imagination (and it is obvious that you certainly have that!) a little freedom, and ignore, at least for the moment, the hackneyed criticism. 
As an aside, do you have any readable facts for 
_*"Its not just me or a few people who do not like Metro. Its most people," ?, apart from, as I said, oft repeated phrases from the same sources.*_ (No offense intended!)

*black-wolf.* Could you elaborate on that? I am not totally clear what you mean.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

*



black-wolf. Could you elaborate on that? I am not totally clear what you mean.

Click to expand...

*Trying to get the menu to show up on the right hand side of the screen to get to the shutdown button.

Like I said in earlier posts, using the classic shell makes using 8 bearable.
I too am retired, not necessarilly by choice, I have no need nor any desire for a tablet and the same applies to the touchscreen.

My kids (all adults now) have a PC for some things, but have Macs and Ipods that they use the most and are very happy with them. They aren't gamers.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

Ok. The "charms" bar (silly name) should show on a sweep to the right, but a mouse click in the bottom right corner will do the trick.. 
But the simplest way to shutdown Windows 8, if you have programmed it as such in the Power settings, is to simply hold in your shutdown button on the computer, momentarily. This has been the expeditious way since Windows 7. It initiates the soft shutdown, without harm to the OS.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Dave. The metro screen seems to have no problem the desktop screen is where it's sporadic.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> The "charms" bar (stupid name) ...


At least a silly name, but let's just be happy that Microsoft did not do their usual trick of using a commonly used term. Charms bar is so much less confusing than Outlook bar, Network bar, Task bar or Drive bar would have been.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

*@Dave:*


> Unfortunately, for me, there are also comments and criticism of the use of Windows 8 with a tablet. I do not own a tablet, so have to take those comments as gospel.


Actually, I've read some opinions of Win8 on a tablet as well... some rather not-so-good-in-some-areas, but at the moment, I don't remember what it was. Something about swiping to get somewhere. Part of that, I think has to do with an older tablet design that doesn't have a physical "windows" button.

About Touchscreen desktops (and notebooks) - I still think Win8 is flawed... you still have to aim your finger for that hidden button or use the keyboard, which breaks the touch experience. Its kind of like this, imagine playing a joystick type shooter game and your joystick has 4 standard buttons on it. But while playing the game, you are required to press two keys on your keyboard (may take two hands "Windows+P") to do some function in a game about 5% of the time... then back to the joystick, even thou there are un-used buttons on the joystick.

A friend bought his wife a touch-screen HP AIO computer. It was on sale for dirt-cheap... the use of the touch screen was "an interesting and new experience" - after two weeks, the screen wasn't touched again. I fail to find the use of a touch screen on a desktop or notebook computer as a primary input. It require more effort, more energy and costs more money.

I understand what you said about Win7 during beta... I feel the same way about Opera 10 (now up to 12) in which many people, including myself - was involved with tweaking the UI. I was getting beta updates every 3~5 days as they tweaked the UI... when they did something "ugh" - they heard about it quick. Opera is my favorite browser. 

When it came to Windows8, MS did everything based off bad data and no common sense.


> *"Its not just me or a few people who do not like Metro. Its most people," ?,* apart from, as I said, oft repeated phrases from the same sources. (No offense intended!)


 None taken 
Remember many years ago during the VISTA fiasco and MS made the silly TV-ADS showing people wetting their pants using some new MS-OS, and it turns out to be Vista? It was a farce since we don't know what they were shown or what they were doing. Vista doesn't look bad - it just ran like garbage and unreliable. Now, a few months ago, many of us have seen the "Show my dad Windows 8" on youtube with this guy saying "what the hell is this?!"

When my ex was visiting, I had her play with Windows8 from boot up and such. She's 27years old - typical age of a modern tech user. She rejected Vista faster than anyone else I know. I really couldn't get her to look at the GOOD things about Windows8. She was done with it in 2 minutes. She's not a novice, she's a gamer and power user (Photoshop CS / built her own AMD 6-core system with Win7Pro). I've been using my first computer since before she was born...(back when I thought having 16K of RAM and a floppy drive would have me set for LIFE!) yet I have given Windows 8 more chances to win me over. I'll read some posts from a Win8 owner "try this movement/feature" to sell me... I power up the computer (Win8 boots very fast, A+ for MS on that!) - and I'm still not sold.

*When I first saw Windows8, I was sold on the GUI. * My actual comments was something like this "In todays world in which most of us only use the same 4~8 programs every day, Metro should be a non-issue - its clean and simple to use". Other than games, I use 3 different browsers, a web editor, Photoshop, Explorer, FastStone image viewer, MS-Word 2003 (does what I need) and a Notepad ++ (awesome editor) = 9 items + a few multi-media tools.

All of those would easily fit on the Metro screen or my Taskbar (which I keep mostly clean - I only use 3 "pin" docked items. Rest is on my desktop or start menu (pinned). It took me about 30 minutes to know I would never buy Win8 and use it on my own hardware. I'm reminded of that every time I use it. Seriously, your post above makes me give it another go... And so... Windows 8 has driven me to try out LinuxMint that same day. Windows 8 showed me that I don't need Windows anymore. (other than Photoshop and my Web editor - which I'll try out in WINE).

As Black-wolf says... its a pain hitting those hidden areas with a mouse. Buying a NEW MS-Windows 8 keyboard is a dumb solution. I'm frustrated trying to get to standard functions. How are we supposed to know that right-click works on some hidden buttons, but not others? In the end, its un-productive.
Why should I reward Microsoft with $40 of my hard-earned money - much less $100 or $150? I could use that to go out to the movies or a date. If I had lots of money, I would sell any stock I had in Microsoft and buy Apple stock before the iPhone5 is made public.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I'll give MS credit for one thing with Windows 8. They won't have to worry about piracy of Windows 8... nobody is going to bother.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

TerryNet said:


> At least a silly name, but let's just be happy that Microsoft did not do their usual trick of using a commonly used term. Charms bar is so much less confusing than Outlook bar, Network bar, Task bar or Drive bar would have been.


Well, MS seem to have a complex about using names which are already common in the computer world. Have a look here for a giggle.

https://www.charmsoffice.com/


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> Actually, I've read some opinions of Win8 on a tablet as well... some rather not-so-good-in-some-areas, but at the moment, I don't remember what it was. Something about swiping to get somewhere. Part of that, I think has to do with an older tablet design that doesn't have a physical "windows" button.


I've also read some of those, and am not concerned about swiping or older touchscreens and the stuff they all seem to talk about. What I would like is to be able to use Windows on a touchscreen (only). I thought initially that Windows 8 was going to give us that and was excited. Now I'm disappointed.

While I haven't actually used Windows 8 on a touchscreen, I think I can comment on it. I have used it on a laptop and I have used my Acer W500 with Windows 7, using the touchscreen only, to do exactly what I have been doing for years with keyboard and mouse or touchpad. It is slow and painful for me. I see almost no improvement from Windows 8.

Here are my comments, copied from my previous post.

My primary difficulties, in no particular order ...

a. Typing. Better than on the smaller iPod Touch and Kindle Fire, but still a hunt and peck process for me. Don't think there's really any fix for that.

b. "Clicking" the chosen menu item. Windows 8 will be easier because of the Start screen instead of the Start menu. But I don't think there is any help for menus in general. Seems to me an option to "double space" all menus would be a decent solution. With iOS you can pinch or whatever they call it to "magnify" the display, including menus. I can't do that with Windows 7 on my Acer tablet. Maybe with Windows 8 or newer Windows touchscreens?

c. Similar to (b) selecting the desired radio button when they are small. This particularly bothers me trying to hit the little "go to first new post" symbol at the beginning of a thread title in forums here.

d. Editing text. With a mouse or touchpad I set an insert point or select text, but can't do that with a touch screen. If I needed to could probably learn new techniques, but don't know if there are any special touchscreen ways of doing that.


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