# pdf page numbers dont match document page numbers



## johnny123321 (Jul 23, 2010)

Hi, 
I have some reference books I use and in all of them I have this problem:

The number written on the document pages doesn't match the number my pdf reader says, and for every document it has a different offset. That is, for example when I go to page 16, then on the page itself it's written that it's page 5 and not 16.

It's an annoying problem.
Is there any way to fix this by changing the pdf numbering or is there any workaround?

Thanks


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

It is normal
One is showing the original page number as if it was a book
The other is showing the page number per each amount of scroll within the document as viewed on your pc


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## johnny123321 (Jul 23, 2010)

When I want to look up something in a pdf ebook, I go to the table of contents. There I get the page number I need. I then go to that page just to find out I have to scroll some 11 pages down to get to my page.

I'm looking for a way to get this to work better. Any ideas?


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

They only match up when everything is just right.
If you are using the page number the document itself shows in the pane..then you have to use that number.

Here is an example of why they often do not match...lets say if a large pdf file will a couple hundred pages....the index is large and has 2 columns on one page.

Here is what happens your Pc will have to scroll down a page to see that large page,unless the document was created specifically to show both columns on one page

Here is a screen shot of a phone manual having the pc view start at page for for page one.
The first 3 pages were contact info and disclaimers.

It is very common for them to not match...there really isnt any fixing as it is merely the document itself being responsible as to whether they will match


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## johnny123321 (Jul 23, 2010)

so is there any way to change that in a document?
is there any software to renumber a pdf?


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

No
You just have to use the page number that shows in the actual document


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## johnny123321 (Jul 23, 2010)

are you sure?

'cause I'm not.

In fact, there are ways to renumber pages in a pdf, and you can read about them here:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/8.0/Standard/help.html?content=WS58a04a822e3e50102bd615109794195ff-7ebd.html

and here:
http://www.gradsch.ohio-state.edu/Depo/ETD_Tutorial/lesson3.pdf


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

johnny123321 said:


> are you sure?
> 
> 'cause I'm not.
> 
> ...


I believe that is modifying the actual pdf...editing so to say which you can not do with the basic adobe reader


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## md2lgyk (Jul 3, 2003)

He's right. No freeware reader I know of has that capability. You need Acrobat, which is quite expensive.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

You don´t need to do this. It´s just a matter of getting used to this huge deficit in this absolutely ridiculous program. People often use this format because they don´t know any better or they´re too lazy to do it properly.
I have complained to a few authors, and they really don´t care, even when they understand.


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## md2lgyk (Jul 3, 2003)

A bit harsh, don't you think? No pdf creator I've ever seen will automatically match the page numbering of the original document. And practically no documents are created in pdf, but in something else and then converted to pdf. It seems to me it would add minimal value for the time spent to edit a pdf just so the page numbers correspond. 

I deal with literally hundreds of very large pdf documents at work, and have never, ever come across one with corresponding page numbers. It would actually be difficult to do since in most of these documents the page numbers restart or the format changes for appendices, indexes, etc., and many pages have no number at all.

It's just not that difficult to note how many pages of front matter there are and add that to the page number of the document you want to go to. If you're a page or two off it's no big deal.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Not remotely harsh. A document created by a PDF program will always have the proper page numbers. It's the lazy, ignorant types who create these problems.
Think about it;most people don't understand an instruction that says, "Go to page 22" when it really means "Go to the page that used to be 22 before I did this really shoddy conversion to one of the web's worst piece of software that's full of security holes".
When your customer sees that you can't even number the pages correctly, you're gong to lose customers. There's no excuse for this.


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## letchworth (Jul 2, 2005)

PDF XChange Viewer (the free version) has the ability to create bookmarks- I often use that to solve the problem you are speaking of. I just create bookmarks to take me to pages of interest- and title these bookmarks to let me know the information I am looking for. (This is somewhat like creating a new index- and can be as tedious or simple an index as you choose).

Think about it, the problem you are describing is the same whether in an ebook or a hardcopy; page one is almost never the first actual sheet of paper in a book--- you have the cover, the blank inside protection sheet, title page, copyright and/or edition and printing information- eventually they begin renumbering the pages at page number one. The pdf calls the cover (when included) as page one, blank sheets are all numbered, etc. The idea of creating bookmarks takes you immediately to the beginning of a chapter (or whatever is of importance to you). The process to create such bookmarks takes only a few moments- and works like a charm.

http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer
One caveat I would offer, however, is that I don't find this program quite as good for highlighting and copying as Foxit Reader (Foxit's free version also has more editing and markup features than the free version of PDF Xchange Viewer-- so I use both for their individual strengths).
letchworth


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Let's not miss the point here: The (Gigantic) problem is that the original document often says "Go to page x for more info." That page number is not the same as the number assigned by the pdf program, so the reader is at a loss as to how to proceed. This applies to Tables of Contents as well.
I have asked some authors to make the necessary changes, and they are not interested. This suggests to me that the paper itself probably isn't worth reading.


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## md2lgyk (Jul 3, 2003)

Oh, come on. As a retired military person, only my respect for your CIB avatar keeps me from saying what I really think of your reply. The fact is, even the Go to Page feature in MS Word doesn't work unless the pages are numbered a specific way. You just have to learn to adapt, my friend.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

"Saying what you really think?"
If you think software that doesn't work is occasion for dissing me instead of the morons who misuse it, I suspect your priorities are skewed. Any company that publishes documents with mis-numbered pages is hiring idiots and is run by idiots. This is easily corrected, and it's a failure of management that it's allowed to occur.


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## drook (Oct 9, 2011)

The PDF format is designed to provide a reproducible printed output from any system. It isn't that the authors you've complained to don't _understand_ or don't _care_ about what you're saying. It's that what you are asking for is _wrong_.

Well-designed PDFs have internal linking, so a reference in the index will be a link to the page it's referencing. Catering to your inability to work a PDF viewer ... now _that_ would be poor management.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

I don't know another way to say it. It's entirely possible for a knowledgeable person to make a PDF such that the page numbers match. When a lazy, ignorant author publishes a document that misleads the reader, it's complete and utter crap, and leads to the confusion the OP experienced.
There are millions of these docs on the web and they reflect the standards of the author.
You may have been bullied into accepting second rate junk, but I'm not going for it.


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## DaveA (Nov 16, 1999)

The only way that the Word and PDF page numbering would be the same, is if the Word document started with page one as the "Cover" and did a single continuous numbering to the last page.

This goes for ALL document editors, not JUST Word.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Have you tried double clicking in the index. I use PDF XChange Viewer "Free Version" and getting .pdf's from same place I also see pages from the book not being the same. I just adjust to it. But some of the .pdf booklets I can double click on the index and it jumps to that page. So lots has to so with how they made the .pdf.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

You're not getting it, Dave. My complaint, and the complaint of millions who use these documents is that the internal references don't match the actual page numbers This happens when lazy, ignorant, indifferent publishers use this format and don't give a damn about the reader. If a document says "See page 3" I expect it to have a page 3 containing the info referenced, but that's often not the case. Getting this right is part of creating a professional document, and anything less is pure crap.
I fail to understand why people put up with this and actually defend the practice, although I suspect it's something to do with low standards.
A properly prepared PDF is a joy to use, all others should be burned before reading.



DaveA said:


> The only way that the Word and PDF page numbering would be the same, is if the Word document started with page one as the "Cover" and did a single continuous numbering to the last page.
> 
> This goes for ALL document editors, not JUST Word.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

You guys do realize that if you pick up a book, you know those made of paper, and take a look at them that they also have this "skewed" numbering right? The page numbered "1" is preceded by several pages such as the cover, preface, index, sometimes just a blank page. Documents generally start page numbering on the first page of the main content of the document and generally readers use the numbering on the pages themselves and not which actually physical page they are on, for example when someone tells you go to page 3 in a novel, you don't count the pages physically starting at the cover.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Of course, and therein lies the rub. When people "convert" their docs to pdfs they don't consider this and the new document page numbers are no longer consistent with the internal references of the the doc before conversion. This just lazy and unprofessional and I find it unacceptable.



Triple6 said:


> You guys do realize that if you pick up a book, you know those made of paper, and take a look at them that they also have this "skewed" numbering right? The page numbered "1" is preceded by several pages such as the cover, preface, index, sometimes just a blank page. Documents generally start page numbering on the first page of the main content of the document and generally readers use the numbering on the pages themselves and not which actually physical page they are on, for example when someone tells you go to page 3 in a novel, you don't count the pages physically starting at the cover.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

But the point is, there's no need to convert the the page number when changing from one media type to another. Why should the cover and index be not included as a numbered page in a printed document but be included as numbered page in a digital document - there should be one standard and the digital document is following. No one is saying that paperback printers should start numbering their books starting at the cover, its simply a given that the cover is not included as a number page 0 the same goes for a digital copy. 

Given Adobe could provide code to display both page number schemes but this is definitely not a case of the person being 'lazy' as you keep stating and as everyone else in this thread has also tried explaining.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Then I'll go with "Unprofessional."
I feel like a lost soul crying in the wilderness.
If a document refers me to "page 3" and page 3 doesn't reflect the info I seek it's a piece of junk.
Google "PDF page numbers wrong" and you'll get nearly 10,000,000 hits, suggesting I'm not the only one who finds this abhorrent. Any document with such glaring and confusing internal inconsistencies is third grade stuff and the publisher should hang his head in shame.


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## DaveA (Nov 16, 1999)

I do GET IT, it is these "BOOKS" that are converted to a digital format, the converter has NO control over the internal page numbering

All I did was state that a NEW digital book must start with page one as the cover.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

A little research suggests there are many apps that give complete control over page numbering.
http://download.cnet.com/PDF-Page-Number/3000-2079_4-10416330.html
http://www.a-pdf.com/number/
This page suggests ways to number a pdf so it's internally consistent:
http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=7009
In reviewing many pdfs I've downloaded (Mostly technical docs), I find that they all have a consistent page numbering scheme.
I suspect many authors have no idea this happens, but I'd be really annoyed of my carefully researched and numbered document was converted into useless fecal matter by this software.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

Hughv said:


> ....I feel like a lost soul crying in the wilderness.
> If a document refers me to "page 3" and page 3 doesn't reflect the info I seek it's a piece of junk....


actually i am having to agree with Hughv, but in my case, i am even going to go a bit futher, reckon i'm just 'ol' school' - there seems to be just a bit to much of 'that's-good-enough' - 'that's-the-way-it's-done-today' - etc - when in reality, it's just slip-shod work - if it's worrth doing, it's worth doing right! :up:

as already stated, it really wouldn't take that much more time to do the document the right way to begin with if one were actually PLANNING out their work and were FAMILIAR with the softwares they were using - but then, everyone is an expert today, they even have the piece of paper from the trade-school / college to prove it....

even see that here on the forums when a few of our 'helpers' seem to be trying to run a race to see how many threads can they post in, not READING, but just 'skimming' the op's post, then not bothering to READ the thread to see what someone else may have already posted, mis-spelling even the simple english words so badly it's not even figurable, some even try to use some of those $1.00 words to inundate others with how smart they are - and so on....

fact, 'called' one of them on the above, the reply was, well i'm trying to help as many as i can....
i guess, if that's what you call help today....

just my $0.02....[but i guess at today's prices, it'll cost me $0.52 ]


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Thank you daniel. Any time you need $0.52, let me know.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

thank you sir, can i change the decimal point placement though before you make the loan?


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Ok, but lets take a technical document that's available in printed copy. Lets say its a textbook with 300 pages. The index is on the 5th physical page and of course it has page numbers that are correct as printed on the bottom of each page. Being a technical text book it has has hundreds of references and examples done by page numbers. Now this textbook gets converted to a digital form, do those references not have to be still be correct? Does the professor now have to have two sets of instructions; one for the printed copy and one for the digital(which now has to be written to correct all the wring page numbers? If the page numbering gets changed so its starts at the cover nothing in the textbook will be correct. 

In paper/printed copies page number never starts at the cover, I don't see why that should change when it turns into a digital copy.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

The PDF software includes the ability to create page numbers according to any scheme, so your example is easy. Begin numbering at page No. 1 and all is well, including internal references (i.e., "See page 14"). There is also software that accommodates the numbering system, so there is no excuse for publishing this document with internal errors.
Note what my objection is:When the document says "See page 14" it should direct you to the proper page, not some page 14 created by the software because the person who does the converting didn't understand the software or didn't care that he was turning the document into incomprehensible crap.
If I were the author and started receiving complaints, "Your page references are wrong" I'd be extremely annoyed and complain 'til this was fixed.
That's all I'm saying. Be professional, do it right even if it means reading the manual.


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## DaveA (Nov 16, 1999)

> The PDF software includes the ability to create page numbers according to any scheme, so your example is easy.


Can you provide a product name and/or link to such a PDF software?


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

It's called ADOBE Acrobat. but there aremany others.
"Keep these things in mind when numbering your masterwork:

Whenever possible, remove visible page numbers from source material before converting it to a PDF. Using Acrobat-based page numbering is easier when the pages contain no numbers to conflict with the numbers displayed on the status bar or in the Pages pane.
Consider the document's use. Many documents need simple page numbering. However, if you are assembling a technical manual, you will likely use prefixes identifying content based on chapters, systems, and so on.
If you are building a book structure, consider how the book will look when printed. Books use front matter like a table of contents and other introductory material that is numbered differently from chapter content."
http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=7009


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## DaveA (Nov 16, 1999)

Hughv,
OK, it has been sometime since I "Paid" for a PDF writer program. The use of these Free of cheaper programs is also a problem, now that I see that some of the "Paid" versions of the "Free" ones do in fact have these controls.

The last version of Adobe Acrobat that I used was version 6 and I do not think it has this type of control.

So, bottom line I concede to your tongue lashing.    and I was wrong in my thinking.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Thank you kind sir, but I didn't intend to upbraid anyone.
It offends me that people put out these documents and then pretend hey are fit for use.
Now, let's get started on pdfs in two columns, where you have to scroll twice to read a paragraph!
Thanks to all who participated.


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