# Fatal exception 0E at 0028:C00362C7 in VDX IFSMGR(01) + 00002977



## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Fatal exception 0E at 0028:C00362C7 in VXD IFSMGR(01) + 00002977

This is a very intermittent problem and only happens 15-20% percent of the time and ONLY under the following conditions. Modem connection active either to the internet or another computer system, AND very disk/file intensive activity. This could be a virus scan, or even a Find *.* and looking for a text string.

Once it hits a certain point or file one of two things happens, it either just shuts down with no warning or message OR it gives a BSOD with the above error. When you hit return it then shuts down.

The pc is an IBM ThinkPad R30 1.0 gig. 256M mem running Win98 SE. At first I thought it may be NAV hitting some file, but later was able to duplicate it by removing NSW and running an online virus scan or even running a Find *.* with a text string specified. All AV scans are clean (NAV and two different online scans) Spybot and Adaware 6 are clean. I'm wondering if during the scan, some unknown file is hit and it is trying to phone home. But I never see anything from Zone Alarm Pro or any of the logs that would point a finger.

Four directories on the system make up 95+% of the files. Windows, Prog Files, My Doc, and a directory I just call Net. I've narrowed it down to the Net dir but that still leaves around 2450 subdirectories containing about 15,000 files.
I can run an AV check subdir by subdir and the same with Find and cannot duplicate it. It's only when running against the whole HD.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Try this, a bit of a long shot

Click the *Start | Settings | Control Panel | System | Device Manager *tab.
Double-click *CD-ROM*, and then double-click your installed CD-ROM device.
On the *Settings* tab of the _CD-ROM Properties_ sheet, clear the check box next to the *Disconnect* option.
Click *OK*
Restart your computer when you are prompted.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Putasolution, I'll give it a shot. But this is a laptop with only one option bay and only a CD-Rom, a zip drive, or a floppy drive installed. It's happend with each device in the option bay so no common thread there.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

You might want to try replacing the IFSMGR.vxd from your cab files then ?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *Try this, a bit of a long shot
> 
> Click the Start | Settings | Control Panel | System | Device Manager tab.
> ...


That changed the error message slightly, but the end results were the same, BSOD and then black screan when hitting return. Had to Hit the "I Win Button" aka: manual power down

Fatal exception 0E at 0028:C02E3078 in VDX SAVRT(02) + 00008B74

Reverting back to original CD settings


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *You might want to try replacing the IFSMGR.vxd from your cab files then ? *


The current IFSMGR.VXD is ver 4.10.2223 dated 3/2/00. I would guess the cab extract would be older.

Moot point: can't extract IFSMGR.VDX


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

It looks like Norton is the cause of your problem on this occasion, try an uninstall/re-install


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

> can't extract IFSMGR.VDX


Try IFSMGR.VXD


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Uninstalled and reinstalled 3 times. Duplicated the problem using the Find *.* with a text string with NSW removed. I first thought of NSW also, but the same results (don't know about the error code) with both NSW 2001 and NSW 2003. Actually with NSW 2001 I don't recall a BSOD, just a sudden unexpected shutdown.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *Try IFSMGR.VXD *


Sorry, not sure if the typo was just above or also in the extraction process also. Extracted using WinZip, rebooted and about to try again. CD settings are reverted back to original now.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Have you tried extracting the original VXD using SFC?

You might want to try Going to Start | run
type in *SFC /scannow*


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

IF NAV created a log of the files scanned this would be a lot easier. I still have a feeling that it is a file, perhaps even a .jpeg that when it gets scanned causes the error and not one of the Win98 or NAV core files. NEVER have any problems if there is no modem connection.

That's why I have a feeling that some file gets touched (scanned) and maybe trys for internet access. Altho I've rarely heard of a jpg being infected with anything.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *Have you tried extracting the original VXD using SFC?
> 
> You might want to try Going to Start | run
> type in SFC /scannow *


No, not yet. Laptop just shut down, no BSOD this time. But I missed where it was in the scan. Was looking here and not there. Let me try another NAV run. The first 30,000 or so files are never a problem.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

You might want to try Going to Start | run
type in SFC /scannow 

Results:
The command line paramaters are not valid. The following parameters were not recognized: "scannow"


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Sorry, my fault, just try SFC


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

My fault too....I should have caught that.

OK, here's where we're at.
CD back to having Disconnect checked
Original IFSMGR.VXD is ver 4.10.2223 dated 3/2/00 was renamed to IFSMGR_VXD.OLD
IFDMGR.VXD was extracted using WinZip
IFSMGR.VXD extracted and over written by secessful extraction of IFSMGR.VXD using SFC
Extracted IFSMGR.VXD is ver 4.10.2222 dated 4/23/99

Last shutdown occured running NAV while still in the Windows directory...THAT'S A FIRST!!
I believe in \windows\all users\application data\symantec\???? BUT, as we know there is always a lag between that the cpu is really doing and what's on the screen.

I've been up for 25 hours and I think my eyes crossed 2 hours ago

Thoughts for after I get some sleep
I want to let the laptop cool down to rule out heat. Weve been running NAV scans sor almot 3 hours now.
Run fresh Nav scan
Remove NSW 2003 and install a 99 version of NAV stand alone and run scans.
IF that fails, remove NAV and use FIND *.* with a text string search. It beats the files equally hard.
Move the original IFSMGR.VXD is ver 4.10.2223 dated 3/2/00 back into place.

Some day I have to learn to do BOLD on here  

Any thoughts?

Edit:

Also I have recently uncheck some of the NSW programs in start up like Clean Sweep since the ThinkPad comes with CfgSafe. I'll re-enable the start up items before the first run, just to get it back to the config that it had always been at.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

I must admit that I was beginning to wonder if you were getting tired 



> Remove NSW 2003 and install a 99 version of NAV stand alone and run scans.
> IF that fails, remove NAV and use FIND *.* with a text string search. It beats the files equally hard.
> Move the original IFSMGR.VXD is ver 4.10.2223 dated 3/2/00 back into place.


sounds good

Though I would be tempted to remove NAV, period, and do the text string search *FIRST*

That should rule out an NAV problem


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

That sounds better. Cut right to the chase. However about 3 weeks ago I had NSW removed and did an onlind scan at panda and it also shut down. But we'll try it again.

Rule 1. NEVER let the computer win
Rule 2. There is no rule 2, see rule 1.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

LOL 

You want to cut to the chase?
Don't install any norton proddies on your system  !!


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

I have succeded in doing 5 straight NAV scans OFFLINE with no problems and one with an active modem connection resulting in a BSOD and shutdown.

I'm not saying that NSW isn't the culprit here, but would like to know why it ONLY does it when online with a modem connection. This is not unique to NSW 2003, it did the same thing when NSW 2001 was on the system.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

There wouldn't happen to be a subdirectory (or extensionless filename) in \net that is a reserved DOS device name such as PRN or CON or AUX or COM1 etc.?

I'm not real sure I would ever even name a directory NET 

You might look at this one
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=293793

What is your version of vredir.vxd ?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

vredir.vxd is ver 4.10.2222 dated 4/25/99
This is a laptop that is stand alone. Never been networked and no P2P sw on it
Closest thing to P2P is AIM and ICQ and they aren't used for that


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

There wouldn't happen to be a subdirectory (or extensionless filename) in \net that is a reserved
DOS device name such as PRN or CON or AUX or COM1 etc.?

None of those. \Net is kind of a catch all for a number of things. There is a dir called base programs whiich contains subdirectories for all of the programs I have downloaded. These are the original exicutables or zips in case I have to reinstall sometime. Also a lot of scifi pics i have d/l'ed. This is also where a number of the programs that were d/l'ed are installed in thier own directories and not under Prog Files. Zone Alarm Pro, Spybot, Swat It, Adaware, HiJack This, to name a few. Maybe in retrospect Net was not the best name choice, but to change at this point would mean a lot of with shortcuts, reg pointers, icons and so on.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Just a quick Q here. Can you run in safe mode without the BSOD or shutdown?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Yes, no problem. But since I doubt the modem drivers load in Safe mode, I wouldn't be able to get online. Hence I couldn't duplicate the problem.

This ONLY happens if online AND intensive disk/file activity.
I can duplicate it using FIND *.* and entering a text string. So it's not exclusive to NAV.
Also with Panda. Haven't tried it with housecall.

One of these days I really have to learn how to do BOLD here.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I thought it was an and/if situation?

How about turning everything off via msconfig except for systray, scanreg, and the two load power profiles (if they exist). Then restart.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

No, ofline I can run all day w/o problems.
That is, being reasonable and letting the HD cool down.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by NiteHawk:_
> *letting the HD cool down. *


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

This is a laptop and hence more of the cooling is directed at the CPU than the HD. Call me silly, but somehow I don't think that 4 to 8 hours of continous scans would be the best thing for the HD. Warped platters have a tendancy not to spin (or read/write) to well. LOL


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Have you all the latest NSW patches installed?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *Have you all the latest NSW patches installed? *


Yes, when I re-installed NSW two weeks ago I did continual Live Updates until three times in a row there were none to be had.

As I said before, I won't say that NSW is totally blameless, but since I can dup this with a text string search while online, I wouldn't think it's totally at fault either.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

What about reinstalling your modem drivers and your network connection?

I seriously doubt this is a hardware or CPU issue in the sense that they are too warm. The laptop would simply cut out


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *What about reinstalling your modem drivers and your network connection?
> 
> I seriously doubt this is a hardware or CPU issue in the sense that they are too warm. The laptop would simply cut out *


Done...twice

I don't think it's a heat issue either. The point was that I let things cool down and didn't run hours and hours of scans.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm getting so I hate to ask this question of most, but you seem to know what you're doing, so here goes.
What is the Bios version?
I was noticing a fix for memory timing in 1.26 for system with 256 or 512
ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/mobiles/spsu1ce7.txt

Arrived there from the matrix for your machine
http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-40213
which also shows some recent stuff for the ACPI and battery


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Might as well dump a list of DOS device names here to refer to for some other post 

---purloined from somewhere on the net ------------
COM1-- First serial COMmunication port, typically connected to a mouse or modem 
COM2 -- Second serial communications port, typically connected to a mouse or modem, the one NOT on COM1 
COM3 -- Third serial communications port 
COM4 -- Fourth serial communications port 
AUX -- AUXiliary device, by default the same as COM1 
LPT1 -- First parallel port, typically connected to the printer (LPT stands for Line PrinTer) 
LPT2 -- Second parallel port 
LPT3 -- Third parallel port 
PRN -- PRiNter, same as LPT1 
CON -- Keyboard and Display (CONsole) 
CLOCK$ -- Real-time clock 
NUL -- A "Bit-bucket" device that goes to nothing; anything sent to NUL will simply disappear 
A:-Z: -- The drive letters 
-----------------------

BTW - running *mem /d/p* at the console will show them to you.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

[ b] [ /b] without the spaces in the brackets will get you *bold* See vB code on the left as you post a message

Ok, what if you increase the virtual memory?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Sorry for the delay. Current *BIOS are v 1023 (1CETD3WW)*

Read the first link and it looks like IBM has been putting out a BIOS update about every 5 or 6 weeks.
Maybe that's why *IBM = It's Better Manually*
The second link froze up twice, I'll try later.

Attached is a copy of the mem dump and my system.ini. System.ini has no entries under [vcache].


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

OK, guess I can't attach more than one file to the same post.

System.ini attached below


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Try a Vcache with the following values

MinFileCache=2048
MaxFileCache=32768


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by IMM:_
> *I'm getting so I hate to ask this question of most, but you seem to know what you're doing, so here goes.
> What is the Bios version?
> *


IMM, thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I've been kicking around for awhile, but still learning. My first "real" pc was a Compaq portable (pronounced LUGABLE) all 36 pounds of it!! Running DOS 1.??, with 2 5.25 full height floppy drives, a 8 or 9" green screen CRT, ans 256K of memory. When I put a clock card in it and blew it out to it's max of 640K of mem I was a happy camper because I no longer had to enter the time and date every time it booted up and I could use bat files!! When I learned how to chain a bat file so it would start an app on the A drive, modem into a site (at 1200 baud), call over to the B drive to d/l a report and THEN call back to the A drive to do the next site I thought I was really happening. Until then you could start something on A and then call B, but there was no way back to A. Picked up the tip in a Peter Norton DOS book. Norton Commander was a good DOS shell back then. And Norton Utilities (yes, from the command line) saved both me and many a file. dbase II files were good for getting corrupted EOF mark right in the middle of a dbf file.

Around 91 I was working for a company that had a UNIX based platform. I remember sitting in a UNIX class and asking, "why doesn't UNIX use the \ like DOS?" The instructors answer was, "maybe the better question would be, why didn't DOS use the / like UNIX, since UNIX was out first". Having just displayed my OUTSTANDING knowledge for the whole class, I shut up, crawled under the tabel and kept my mouth shut the rest of the day. 

Didn't Bill Gates once say 640K of mem should be enough for everyone, and a 10 meg hard drive should last a life time.
Oh yeah, I forgot they used to write tight code back in the days of yor.
So much for the "good old days".


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by putasolution:_
> *Try a Vcache with the following values
> 
> MinFileCache=2048
> MaxFileCache=32768 *


Only 32 meg??

Can't hurt, I'll give it a shot. Does anything have to be enabled for Vcache or just the entry in system.ini and reboot?


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## gmh (Mar 29, 2003)

from a 'had it with Norton' user, suggest
Computer Associates programs..
cost same but you will forget it is operating..
no problems at all and daily updates..


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

Just the entry in System.ini or you can set virtual memory as follows

Right-click *My Computer* on your desktop, and then click *Properties*.
Click the *Performance* tab.
Click *Virtual Memory*, and then click *Let me specify my own virtual memory settings*.
Click the hard disk that you want to use for virtual memory, and then select the minimum and maximum amounts of virtual memory. (Start off with 32Mb you can increase it if needs be) 
Click OK, click OK, and then restart your computer.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Have you tried updating your video drivers?


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Vhpscand.vxd 

Is this file on your computer? If so, where?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AcaCandy:_
> *Vhpscand.vxd
> 
> Is this file on your computer? If so, where? *


No Vhpscand.vxd. That's a driver for an HP scanner I believe. I used to have a HP scanner a few years ago, but let my daughter use it when she went to college. Now it seems that it's *HER* scanner. I think it's called "reallocation of resources". Besides, I got this laptop after the "reallocation of resources".

No I haven't gone the Vid diriver route yet.

Thanks for the thought.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

GMH, thanks for the tip. I'll look into them. I would like to resolve this problem first, if I can. If not, it's time to part company with Norton.



> _Originally posted by gmh:_
> *from a 'had it with Norton' user, suggest
> Computer Associates programs..
> cost same but you will forget it is operating..
> no problems at all and daily updates.. *


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Sorry about the memdump thing - I wasn't looking to see it. I was just trying to indicate that it's a way of seeing what the DOS device names are.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Added the following to system.ini and rebooted.

MinFileCache=2048
MaxFileCache=32768

No change. The only thing that has changed with all the testing is that where this used to happen about at 85 to 90% of 40,000 files. the last few times *even before the Vcache change* it happens much earlier and in more or less random places. I missed where the last two times since in the past it happened much later in the scan.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Out of curiosity - have u updated to 1.37 (1CETE7WW) ?
Is the memory in this beasty all on one DIMM ?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

No haven't upgraded the BIOS yet, sorry.
2 x 128 on the mem Haven't tried frogging them yet. Never thought of that point.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Wasn't thinking of frogging them - it's just that the memory timing improvements advertised for the bios are more likely to apply to a single 256 dimm (or pair of 256's) than two 128's - but who knows? - forthcoming with the details - they ain't .


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Yep, just a wealth of information. Having current up to date BIOS can't hurt. Hope those aren't famous last words.
I see they also recomment the Win98 shutdown supplemment. They give a link to Q239887, but that only takes you to M$ main page, not the knowledge base article. Cute. NO points for accuracy on that one.

I thought that delayed shutdown was for systems running 2 gig and above. This is a 1 gig box.
Reading farther down the MS KB page this patch was released on 9/28/99. This box is 14 months old. A quick says I have it, just as I thought. Once more, no points for IBM.

I'll flash them in a little bit, using the laptop for something else at the moment.

As additional info, I tried killing off ZA Pro and running NAV. Same results.
It's perplexing why it only happens with an active modem connection.


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## putasolution (Mar 20, 2003)

I know that you said you had tried the network connections and modem drivers what about Dialup networking itself?

have you tried replacing that or possibly it's a damaged winsock?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

No I haven't, but then I've never had any online problems that would indicate a winsock problem. All is fine online, unless ofcourse a NAV scan kicks in via scheduler. I could change the scheduled run time, but that would only be avoiding the problem, not resulving it.

I'm running a huge file xfer now, so I'll flash the BIOS once I get up.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Upgraded the BIOS to to 1.37 (1CETE7WW) and ran NAV again. NO BSOD this time, but just an instant shutdown at around 48% of the 40,000 files. This is much like the original problem, the BSOD was a more recent development.

I'll try a few more scans and see what happens.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I haven't read the whole thread, but given that these shutdowns and bluescreens occur with the most intensive cpu and file activity, and that this is a laptop, one might suspect heat to be an issue causing instability.

I'd try instllaing a software cooler such as Rain2 at least long enough to test.

http://www.notebookreview.com/coolcpu.html


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

That's good advice from Rog. I only like these when I can see them  - but after the Rain thing - I would start wondering about DMA and IRQ usage as well as the modem and network drivers (though I'd sure like to poke through those directories and the registry) 

If you want to pursue it, and cooling is ruled out - there are ways to play in the registry regarding giving certain IRQ's higher priority etc. (or to bump a process priority). What does the AMR have for an IRQ, and does it share ? Which version of the drivers is it using? Is there an ethernet card onboard or in the PCMCIA slot?


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Generally I would agree with you Rog and it certainly wouldn't hurt, but this as an AND case.
Intensive disk/file activity AND an active modem connection. Offline presents no problem no matter how many scans you do. (Within common sense considering heat build up). But I can do at least 3 offline scans in a row. The other side is I can but a cold computer and go online and scan and have the shutdown happpen

The last two have gone back to the BSOD with the original exception error.
The Thinkpad is about 14 months old and has basically done it from day one.
At first it had NSW 2001 and then the end of Feb this year removed and replaced with NSW 2003.
Since I can duplicate it by running Find *.* with a text string to search for, I don't think it's a Norton issue.

I've tried running NAV top level directory by directory in hopes of then going sub by sub, but those run fine.
At one time I thought there might have been some bogus file that was trying to "phone home" when touched and ZA never had enough time to display an alert before it shut down. I've pretty much excluded that idea now.

I've looked at the problem from time to time over the last 14 months, but only got really serious about it in the last 3 weeks.
Out of 4 pc's this is the only one that does it. Not sure about my daughter's ThinkPad. Being a college student and running Kaaza, I know hers has to be loaded with crud, (she telles me that Norton Speed Disk stops and starts and takes 3-4 hours. Ya know there's got to be a lot of spyware on it) but for the moment she won't let me near it. Kids!!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Well - perhaps you can tell from what I'd like to do, that I'm leaning towards timing issues. The 'modem' is a semi real-time item (bit of buffering) and I'm wondering if it's not getting serviced often enough - or if it's losing it's DMA channel or is having some memory it requires 'walked on' (or spooled out).

One quick thought is to download Process Explorer to the machine
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml and after identifying the processes associated with the modem - to try and raise their priority before running Norton. (just a temporary debug technique like playing with the IRQ priorities - not really a permanent solution)


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Are you networked or using a NIC for a broadband connection?

This one's close, but no cigar I'm sure:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=192844

Still if you are using a NIC you might want to check the vendor's site for any updated drivers, or disable it if you are not.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Nice catch Rog - I was thinking about that - but I think (am not sure) that this lapper uses the 'nic' in a pcmcia slot. I hope NiteHawk will correct me if I'm wrong.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

IMM, both the NIC and the modem are built in. It's never been networked.
Modem is on IRQ 11 as is the NIC
The only divice that has the yellow ! is the SCSI controller for an old parallel port Kanguru drive which is not connected. so the yellow ! would be normal under those circumstances.
Master bus IDE controller and the Pri disk controller is on IRQ 14, the secondary is on Irq 15
Both PCMCIA slots are empty
Nothing other than power and a phone line connected. No printers, USB connections

What else??


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Sorry, altho the NIC is built in, no connection. Straight dialup


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's still using resources though, and since this issue could be due to a resource conflict, why not disable it in the Device Manager. Can't hurt.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Modem drivers
windows\system\Ltsm.vxd V 3.1.96 07/03/01
windows\system\vmm32.vxd UNKNOWN file date 4/11/00
windows\system\ltsmvcd.vxd V 3.1.96 07/03/01
windows\Ltsmgr.exe V 3.1.96 07/03/01
windows\agrsmdl.exe V 1.19 ??/??/?? file date 06/06/01

Looking at IBM's site unless I have wireless networking (I don't) V 3.1.96 appears to be the latest set of drivers


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rollin' Rog:_
> *It's still using resources though, and since this issue could be due to a resource conflict, why not disable it in the Device Manager. Can't hurt. *


Disabled and rebooted. Ran NAV scan while modem online. No change, still shuts down, no BSOD this time.
It ran a little over 12,000 of 40,000 files.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Here's a cute one for a lark - extract vcomm.vxd to C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32 and reboot. This will override the vcomm.vxd which is wrapped up in vmm32.vxd (placing it differently in memory).

Not holding my breath tho'


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Extracted vcomm.vxd, (you were right, there was no stand alone vcomm.vxd) rebooted and ran scan with modem online. It was looking good until just under 25,000 files. No BSOD, just an abrupt shutdown.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Wish I could actually see how it behaves - really helps to hear things so I could guess if it's the bios shutting it down - but a thought on a different tack than the timing issues (back to heat - artificial this time). It's not overheating - it just thinks it is?
Try using the ThinkPad CE Utility Diskette and select the Thermal Sensor Utility from the menu.
Reset the defaults (watching to see if there's any change in values) - then raise them a touch above the defaults before trying a run?

You can leave that vcomm.vxd or remove it - your choice.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

I'll give the Thermal Sensor Utility a shot after some sleep. Plus I have to find the floppy...oops.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Well - I think the utilities are avalalble for install on the HD from the link I posted earlier (system and config) http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-40213 - but if you do this you may have to uninstall any existing ones.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

IMM, I have not addressed the Thermal Sensor Utility idea yet, haven't had time to look for the floppies.

However I did just get a seccessfull full scan while online. *BUT* the conditions were not realistic to the real world. The pc had been off for 10 or more hours, as soon as it booted I established a modem connection and and kicked off a NAV scan which was successful.

Before I get anyone's hopes up I want to have the pc running for 20-30 minutes and then kick off another scan. This falls inline with your thermal idea.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Just for fun, have you tried taking the sides off the computer and perhaps running a fan from the side.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by IMM:_
> *I'll lend you the jigsaw for that lapper  *


Yep, kind of hard to do with a laptop.
I suppose I could set it on a block of ICE, but I try to keep water and electricity away from each other

After the one success on a cold system, the next three passes have resulted in the instant shutdown syndrome. Twice w/o and once with the BSOD and originial IFSMGR error.
You may be onto something IMM, perhaps the modem adds the extra degree of heat that isn't there offline.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Some DSP's can generate a fair amount of heat. I'd guess the DSP on that one is also used for sound but I haven't looked at anything to know - u could try stressing the soundcard during a run if you've a mind.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Interesting thought. Other than playing a music CD, how would you suggest stressing the sound card?

EDIT:
On second thought, to take any heat generated by the CD drive out of the equation, I could play a series of mp3's. Altho that would tend to increase the disk activity. We'll see.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Update:

Heat generated by the DSP may be the issue here. I tried a nav scan while putting about 45 minutes worth of mp3' in cue and running a NAV scan. It shut down. 

I'm going to put this on the back burner (may be a poor choice of words) for a few days until I can locate the original utilities package that came with the ThinkPad.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'm not sure why you are focusing on DSP issues, it is more likely the CPU is being driven hard -- I'd still suggest giving Rain2 a try.

If you want to put a load on that CPU to test, and have Winamp installed, open the Visualizations plugin for the Audio Visualization Studio. Don't run any sound, but just stretch the screen and watch your system slow to a crawl on anything but the fastest processors these days.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by NiteHawk:_
> *Yep, kind of hard to do with a laptop.
> *


Oops, sorry 'bout that, the thread is getting longer than my attention span


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Rog, I don't think IMM is focusing so much on a DSP issue per ca as that the DPS, be it modem or sound, just ADDS to the heat factor and the combination of the DSP and CPU push it over the threshold. IMM, correct me if I'm wrong here.

AcaCandy, no problem. I wasn't looking for a record length thread, it just kind of evolved that way. 

Edit:
Rog, if I understand the function of Rain correctly, it essentially sets up a no op loop for when the cpu is idle, thus keeping it cooler, is that correct?

If I'm running NAV or a Find *.* with a text string the cpu is no longer idle. I'm not saying it won't work, just trying to understand how it would work in this instance.

Either way, I'll give it try and see what the results are.

Thanks.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I think IMM is probably right on the money with the comment about the motherboard thermal sensor. Sony has had a well known problem with theirs generating a false signal and shutting their VAIO laptops down cold. Think Class Action Law Suit 

But heat is heat ... I wouldn't expect Rain2 to take more than 5 degrees off the average temp, but it might be enough to tell you whether heat really is a factor, or it's just something else affecting the sensor.

The way software coolers work is by putting the cpu in a suspend state when the processsor is idle. If you think about it, they would have their maximum effect at a about 50-75 percent cpu load. More than that and hardware cooling (not an option of course) is a must.

NT based systems have the feature built in.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Thanks Rog, that Sony VAIO problem does ring a faint bell. This one's an IBM ThinkPad, but who knows where they get their internals from.
Right now the pc in in the midst of a several hour Speed disk run (rearranging file placement, that's why so long). When it's done, I'll install Rain2.

Edit:
There again, I can run for 3+ hours straight doing a Speed Disk on an external parallel port HD (with NO modem connection active), but can't run NAV for 30 or 40 min with a modem connection. That tends to make it more perplexing. The pc must be hovering just below the thermal cut off.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I think the problem with Sony and probably others as well stems from a flawed Intel sensor chip. They have an article posted for it that explains the system is prone to shutdown if it is implemented in a certain way (to system manage) and the thermal difference from the shutdown level and the current temp is less than 8 degrees: meaning it shuts the system down 8 degrees too soon.

The advisory is that the drivers and code implementing the chip must be compensated for how it reads and re reads the temp. (No help for the end user if that hasn't been done).

It's probably a very common chip and I imagine the problem has been around quite a while before they got on to it.


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Installed Rain2 and ran NAV with a modem connection active. BSOD followed by shutdown (when you hit return).
Powered up and started Rain2 and let pc sit idle for 20 minutes before next test. Altho it lasted about 5 minutes longer the results were the same.

Do you have a link to that advisory page, Rog? I get the impression that they are saying new drivers, but they haven't been written yet. Is that true?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I got the Intel link from here:

http://cip.physik.uni-freiburg.de/~zwerger/Vaio/Intel_Mobile_Temp-Prob.pdf

It was present on this page:

http://cip.physik.uni-freiburg.de/~zwerger/Vaio/indexeng.htm

Some of which I guess you can take with a grain of salt, although there may be some APM issue involved. If you have APM listed in the Device Manager, that can be disabled for a test. But don't try disabling ACPI. Same goes for the BIOS.

In any case disabling APM will affect how the system shutsdown and you may need to manually power off if you disable it.

To give Rain a fair try you should probably let the system cool for an hour before starting it up. I imagine it will help prevent the system from reaching highest temps, but if it is already hot it may not cool down very much, or at least very fast.

By the way, my take on the pdf article is that the drivers they are talking about would have to be written into the ROM BIOS. You might want to see if an update is available there, but keep in mind the risks associated with doing any BIOS update.

IMM's your man if you want to go that route!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Bios update has been thought about and I'm told - done. Most issues re temp and their bios and driver updates relate to cold climate it seems.

More than one temp sensor in the machine? Been trying to stay silent until I at least hear that the alarms are at the defaults


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## NiteHawk (Mar 9, 2003)

Just an update. I thing that the temp sensor is the best bet at the moment. I haven't been able to find the documentation package and diag disks for this laptop. Everyother pc ever owned, but not this one. Murphy strikes again! I'll contact IBM this week and see if they will sell me another doc and diag package. (Best way I know of to insure that the original will be found.)


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