# Does any know a good if not great alternative to Apple?



## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

I have been an Apple user since February 2015 and I am not impressed. Sure it looks good and yes it is powerful but it's overly costly for the same price for a used Macbook Pro a person could buy something better with the latest tech for the same price. So i'm wondering when my Macbook becomes obsolete what would be a good replacement? Here are the requirements that I am looking for in a laptop.

1. The type of pc with proper care (i.e Blowing dust, and good antivirus w/o dropping it) that could last me a decade (if not more).
2. Something affordable but is durable.
3. Great technical support.
4. Most of the parts could be upgraded.
5. Low chance of being defective.

So yeah if you have any great suggestions then that would be great. Thanks.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

Just looking at the history of PCs

Look at machines that were available in 2005 
Windows would be running XP - which is now obsolete and nolonger support, browsers will not update



> that could last me a decade


 i would not expect much to last a decade these days



> 4. Most of the parts could be upgraded.


 There will come a time when an upgrade will not be cost effective

Hardware is always evolving and so is software.



> 5. Low chance of being defective.


 Hardware and electronics wear out - Harddrives are mechanical and will fail
Companies pay vast prices for redundancy and business critical solutions



> 3. Great technical support.


 if you pay for support, then you will get what support you pay for - just look at Dell/HP/Apple now 
Perhaps finding a local computer shop that will provide a support service

What country are you in ?



> I have been an Apple user since February 2015 and I am not impressed.


 What are you not impressed with - I have found Macbooks last longer than PCs


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> Just looking at the history of PCs
> 
> Look at machines that were available in 2005
> Windows would be running XP - which is now obsolete and nolonger support, browsers will not update
> ...


Ok let me better clarify my situation. I spent over a grand on a Macbook Pro 17 inch earlier this it didn't take a year for it to screw up. I eventually found out that liquid damage corroded my logic board (motherboard) even though I know I never spilled a drink on it. The back of the computer has a vent and in that vent water can get in even without me noticing. So now I have to spend over 500 bucks to get it fixed. The Apple store was going to charge me 1200 bucks. Which is ridiculous. I'm seriously considering selling the apple pc and getting something much more inexpensive. I have nothing against Apple at all but considering how much i'm paying for. I'm not sure if its worth it.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

> I eventually found out that liquid damage corroded my logic board (motherboard) even though I know I never spilled a drink on it. The back of the computer has a vent and in that vent water can get in even without me noticing.


 Thats strange - But if the item has a fault , then its difficult to advise, as without the fault , you would not be looking for a change.

Apple are known for very high prices for the product, although the business model is that you get Operating system updates for free (which mny people who purchased PC in 2006-2009 - windows XP (EOL - April 2014) and windows vista (EOL - 11 April 2017) owners will be changing PCs because of the software and browses nolonger being support and things like browsers not working with certain websites 
You also get Pages, numbers and Keynote for free - which are good alternatives to MSOffice , although there are open source versions for windows

If you dont want Apple - then you can get a Windows PC or use an open OS like Linux

Price of the machine and performance will depend on your budget , if you want to compare with Apple Specs , then we need a model number 
Most have an I5 or I7 processor, so will not be in the cheaper budget category


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> Thats strange - But if the item has a fault , then its difficult to advise, as without the fault , you would not be looking for a change.
> 
> Apple are known for very high prices for the product, although the business model is that you get Operating system updates for free (which mny people who purchased PC in 2006-2009 - windows XP (EOL - April 2014) and windows vista (EOL - 11 April 2017) owners will be changing PCs because of the software and browses nolonger being support and things like browsers not working with certain websites
> You also get Pages, numbers and Keynote for free - which are good alternatives to MSOffice , although there are open source versions for windows
> ...


I know that i7 and i5 aren't cheap but it's still more affordable than Apple depending on where a person looks. Also you keep talking about Windows XP. Sure Windows XP is considered to be Microsoft's most popular operating system. But Microsoft is leaning towards Apple methods by offering Windows 10 for free for anyone who has a legal copy of windows 7 or 8/8.1 for a year. Also the computer had no faults when I had it. It was refurbished so the only issue it has was small scratches on the bottom but other than that no major issues. Plus I had windows 7 and Yosemite dual boot. And OSX has it's benefits over Windows. So I have nothing against Apple but depending on the type of issue it can be quite high maintenance. Especially if the person has no job and is getting by on what they have.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

> Also the computer had no faults when I had it. It was refurbished so the only issue it has was small scratches on the bottom but other than that no major issues.


 and water damage

I only gave the example of XP _ as you said you wanted 10 years life 
and MS only support products for 10years and XP is the best example of people having to change working hardware because of the out of date software 
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/lifecycle

in my opinion MS are only offering windows 10 because of the issues with windows 8 and the people who would really benefit would be vista users as that was a rubbish operating system and a lot of those PCs would run windows 10 - I have a very expensive Sony (cost me £1200 ) which runs windows 10 very well.



> So I have nothing against Apple but depending on the type of issue it can be quite high maintenance. Especially if the person has no job and is getting by on what they have.


 dont really understand that , its the same issue on a windows PC - if it had to have a new motherboard - in fact , it would be uneconomical to repair


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> dont really understand that , its the same issue on a windows PC - if it had to have a new motherboard - in fact , it would be uneconomical to repair


I agree. But when I meant was if a person had job and took care of their money it would phase them as much as a student in America, who doesn't have a job who relies on money coming in every few months.



etaf said:


> in my opinion MS are only offering windows 10 because of the issues with windows 8 and the people who would really benefit would be vista users as that was a rubbish operating system and a lot of those PCs would run windows 10 - I have a very expensive Sony (cost me £1200 ) which runs windows 10 very well.


Kinda like with Windows 7 since vista sucked.



etaf said:


> and water damage


No I brought the PC in February (of this year) and the issue appeared near the end of November (of this year) now i'm not sure when it did happen all I know is that it did happen.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

The corrosion can take a while to cause the issues 
i know of people who have spilt drinks onto keyboards and the machine has been fine and then failed after 1 or 2 years due to the corrosion issue 

So perhaps the damage occurred before you got the machine


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> The corrosion can take a while to cause the issues
> i know of people who have spilt drinks onto keyboards and the machine has been fine and then failed after 1 or 2 years due to the corrosion issue
> 
> So perhaps the damage occurred before you got the machine


Perhaps because I brought the machine from Saint Paul, MN. Perhaps the water from the snow went in. Idk but perhaps I should mention it to the seller.


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

No computer is impervious to liquid damage. 

You can buy a very capable brand new Windows computer for $300. If it lasts 2-3 years, that's a decent RTOI.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

> Idk but perhaps I should mention it to the seller.


 worth a try 
Not sure you would get the same spec for $300 , you do need to compare like for like, graphics, cpu ram etc to have a fair comparison
But if you just want a basic PC for surfing and email , then apple is probably not the way to go


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> worth a try
> Not sure you would get the same spec for $300 , you do need to compare like for like, graphics, cpu ram etc to have a fair comparison
> But if you just want a basic PC for surfing and email , then apple is probably not the way to go


Naw I already have a Chromebook for that and that cost me less than 300 bucks. I'm looking for a powerful pc (preferably a laptop) that can handle games like guild wars 2 and tera on high settings.

The macbook pro faired pretty well. It had 16 gb of ram, 1 tb hybrid storage, dual boot windows 10 and Os el captain. I don't drop my pc's. I never really went outside with my mbp until the repairs even then I still haven't dropped them. So how long would a laptop last inside all year long, with the dust blown out by the month, has antivirus and gets regular updates?


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

cant give you a life on a laptop - there are sure to be stats - but as i said - often the software goes out of date and you cannot upgrade as the software has not been written for the older hardware, i have laptops that are from 2004/6 and will not update to W10 - and although the PCs are OK - cannot use with windows.

16GB or RAM
and SSD 
you cannot run OSX on a windows PC - OSX can only legally be used on apple hardware

i would start a new thread in the hardware forum - and ask for a advice/recommendations on a windows PC that will run the games you need


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## TonyB25 (Jan 1, 1970)

If you need the latest and greatest computer, then you'll pay a lot of money, and it will run those games for only a few years.


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> 16GB or RAM
> and SSD
> you cannot run OSX on a windows PC - OSX can only legally be used on apple hardware


I know that that's why I brought an apple pc in the first place because it can hold both.



etaf said:


> 16GB or RAM
> and SSD


It's technically not an ssd its an sshd. Hybrids are significantly faster than regular hard drives yet are slightly slower than ssd's.


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> cant give you a life on a laptop - there are sure to be stats - but as i said - often the software goes out of date and you cannot upgrade as the software has not been written for the older hardware, i have laptops that are from 2004/6 and will not update to W10 - and although the PCs are OK - cannot use with windows.
> 
> 16GB or RAM
> and SSD
> ...


That sounds like a good idea although i'm still torn. Besides the motherboard experience. I don't think another experience would happen like this again unless its through my own choosing. Besides the motherboard issue, the overall experience has been great. It is nice to have another os to switch to when tired with other one. It's actually a privilege and even if I did have a windows pc if the motherboard did screwup it would be almost just as costly. So yeah I think I should just get the pc fixed and if afterwards I find my experience to be unpleasant then I would consider starting a new thread. I specifically picked mac book pro because of the field I am going to enter to which is in television and digital media. And in television and digital media you learn how to manipulate audio and video. One of the programs which they use is final cut pro. Windows would be awesome if it could run final cut pro but it can't and plus the versatility of Apple has such as operating final cut pro and adobe premiere and the fact that I can run solely windows programs by restarting the pc and solely osx through bootcamp. I think i'm sticking with Apple until then I think it would take me several years before I even start a new thread on gaming pcs. If I were to start a thread now most of the advice would be considered obsolete in a couple of years. Tech is moving at such a fast rate and would be a long time before it starts to slow down. It took 20 years for the phone to go from brick to compact and in less than a decade we made a smartphone. It took 100 years for the phone to become a brick. And we achieved the impossible by doing the same thing in under 10 years. Incredible. I might do Apple again but for now I'll take my time. Damn. I can't believe I changed my mind through an entire rant. Lol.


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

Well you haven't really changed your mind, it was clear you were frustrated at a costly repair.
And from your last post - its clear OSX & Windows is what you need.
I have a few friends that have imacs and love them and then run windows 7/10 when they need a Windows only program.
hey purchased the apple for the same reasons as you Images , Music, video editing etc .


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> Well you haven't really changed your mind, it was clear you were frustrated at a costly repair.
> And from your last post - its clear OSX & Windows is what you need.
> I have a few friends that have imacs and love them and then run windows 7/10 when they need a Windows only program.
> hey purchased the apple for the same reasons as you Images , Music, video editing etc .


Yeah I am frustrated. Also I'm going to call the seller to see if there is someway they can fix the pc for me? Because although the 90 day warranty expired it's still their fault so...or do you think that they wouldn't help and I should just go forward with the purchase of the motherboard anyway?


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

> or do you think that they wouldn't help and I should just go forward with the purchase of the motherboard anyway?


 i really do not know what they may do - also not sure of any rights you may have on the purchase of a refurbished PC

what country are you in, there maybe a consumer help line (as there is in the UK) who may advise on what your legal rights maybe


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

caretoexplain said:


> Yeah I am frustrated. Also I'm going to call the seller to see if there is someway they can fix the pc for me? Because although the 90 day warranty expired it's still their fault so...or do you think that they wouldn't help and I should just go forward with the purchase of the motherboard anyway?


From everything you've said, I'm sort of wondering if the Macbook had this "Accident" (water damage) and the seller knew to get rid of it. Sure sounds suspicious as water just doesn't get in magically.

I would never buy second hand laptop for this reason, unlike a desktop they are just too expensive tor repair, whether it be a PC or a Mac. Apple sells refurbished Macs with discounts that come with full warranties and are in near perfect shape.

You'll find that many Mac repair outfits charge really high prices on replacement parts.
If you're diligent, you can sometimes find better deals on eBay or Amazon and the cost is more worth the risk.
You still have to replace the motherboard yourself or take it to someone that can do it for you.

I've replaced several iMac logic boards buying from these sites and saved hundreds of dollars each time.
At the time, iMac logic board was about $500 US from Mac parts stores, got one from eBay for $150. Working great.

You'll have to check with the Apple Store, but if they do replace the logic board for you, I believe it comes with a 1 year warranty. The Macbook should last you for years after that. (Save for HD failures which can happen at any time on any system)


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

Headrush said:


> From everything you've said, I'm sort of wondering if the Macbook had this "Accident" (water damage) and the seller knew to get rid of it. Sure sounds suspicious as water just doesn't get in magically.
> 
> I would never buy second hand laptop for this reason, unlike a desktop they are just too expensive tor repair, whether it be a PC or a Mac. Apple sells refurbished Macs with discounts that come with full warranties and are in near perfect shape.
> 
> ...


I agree as for the macbook repair it's gonna cost me my entire emergency fund plus most of this months cash. One of the mac repair outfits (Screwbox) were going to charge me 949 sure beats Apple's but still expensive as hell. So I went on ebay to find a better deal I found that exact same model for over 300 bucks less.

http://ebay.to/1IOAsPK

vs

this

http://bit.ly/1NjO7gD

So yeah I told Screwbox how much would it cost? And he said 100 bucks to install. 549 bucks. 400 less than what Screwbox originally charged for and 651 dollars less than Apple. All I can do now is pray for the best and prepare for the worst. And yeah I have to start the e fund all over again and yeah how do I back up the entire hard drive just in case it does fail?

P.S: In case you were wondering why I didn't choose any other mac repair outfit besides Screwbox (besides Apple obviously). Because I did my research.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/screwbox-tampa

http://bit.ly/1Y8xdtJ


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

etaf said:


> i really do not know what they may do - also not sure of any rights you may have on the purchase of a refurbished PC
> 
> what country are you in, there maybe a consumer help line (as there is in the UK) who may advise on what your legal rights maybe


I live in the US. I also have good news the computer has finally been fixed it works like I did when I last had it which is great. I don't know how the liquid damage happened but at least I know what to be on the lookout for. And my dad is blaming me for messing up my pc because of using canned air to blow dust off with. I told him there is no way that the canned air can mess up the laptop.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

caretoexplain said:


> And my dad is blaming me for messing up my pc because of using canned air to blow dust off with. I told him there is no way that the canned air can mess up the laptop.


Actually it can. If you use to much you may get condensation and if it gets cold it will cause frost to form as well, if the electronic device is on or turned on too quickly afterwards it could potentially cause damage. It's unlikely but possible.


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

Triple6 said:


> Actually it can. If you use to much you may get condensation and if it gets cold it will cause frost to form as well, if the electronic device is on or turned on too quickly afterwards it could potentially cause damage. It's unlikely but possible.


Crap so next time I do clean my computer what should I use? A duster

http://amzn.to/1Igbg4O

or a vacuum?

http://amzn.to/1S0cbbJ


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

Canned air is fine if used correctly. Just don't spray it for so long and no issue.


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

Triple6 said:


> Canned air is fine if used correctly. Just don't spray it for so long and no issue.


Ok cool and I ended up deleting my windows partition because I wanted to reset windows again because I thought that I had too much unnecessary drivers installed so I reset to delete files. Now the issue was that this was an upgrade from windows 7. So I had a issue. The installer stopped unexpectedly and so I tried it again and the boot said there was no os installed so I went to osx and deleted the windows partition. Now I would like to install windows again. I heard on a thread that I didn't need a key windows remembers the hardware and installs it that way.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2852816/activate-windows-product-key.html

I also wanted to create a partition so I can install windows but another issue that I had was my windows partition was too small when I previously had it. I like to game and I have a 1 tb hard drive on my mac and a 1tb external. Now would it be best for me to divide it equally or what?


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

So are you trying to use BootCamp to install Windows 10?


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## caretoexplain (Nov 30, 2015)

Triple6 said:


> So are you trying to use BootCamp to install Windows 10?


Yes. I already installed it and it's going by well. I did have an issue with the bootcamp installer but I suppose the issue took care of itself. I found it interesting Microsoft's technology... it already knows the product key based on the hardware. I selected I don't have a product key during installation. I think the same product key I had when I had the old Windows 10 partition to now is practically the same. How they did that is beyond me. So yeah here's my final result. A nice 50/50 beautiful XD.


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

They link the key by the hardware in the computer, internet access is required after installation.


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