# Importance of making data backups



## cwwozniak (Nov 29, 2005)

*Stolen laptop contains man's dreams*


> John Boldt is pleading for the return of his hard drive, which contains research and notes for the thesis he was writing for his master's degree in history. He only had three chapters left to write before his paper was complete.
> 
> Unless he gets it back, Boldt will have to abandon his dream and quit at the University of Calgary.


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## oksteve (Sep 14, 2008)

I doubt if this mans looking for sympathy and he won't get it from me.
If it was that important why was it not backed up ?
C'mon he is no child he is a full grown man that knows what computers can do
A computer that no doubt had had problems as they all do from time to time.
Don't you think that at some point way back in the day when he first started this.
"Duh! better back up this important thesis,don't want to lose that !"

No , I think the world is better off without his dreams.

I wonder what this dream thesis was about anyway ? Not data protection thats for sure !


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## TheZeDD (Jul 2, 2002)

They add this nifty stuff to computers these days for Tracking them and such, kind of like OnStar, that tracks and disables the equipment.

But what's the point of having OnStar if you never use it? Or leave it disabled?

As far as backups. We're talking about computers. How many people actually carry a backup anything, or even try?

I think there is more to this story tho!

- Z


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## avisitor (Jul 13, 2008)

There's absolutely no excuse for not having data backed up. It's incredibly easy and convenient to set up an online backup. It's cheap to back up a lot of files and if you only need to back up critical files, it can even be free as many online backup services offer 2GB of space gratis.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

He sounds like an idiot. I always back up my papers to a thumb drive. He needs to get one of those and stop being so dumb!


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## win2kpro (Jul 19, 2005)

namenotfound said:


> He sounds like an idiot. I always back up my papers to a thumb drive. He needs to get one of those and stop being so dumb!


For really important data I certainly wouldn't trust a thumb drive since they have a high failure rate.

If you have data that you absolutely, positively don't want to lose they should be on two different types of media such as an external hard drive AND a CD's or DVD's.


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## avisitor (Jul 13, 2008)

win2kpro said:


> If you have data that you absolutely, positively don't want to lose they should be on two different types of media such as an external hard drive AND a CD's or DVD's.


In different physical locations.

A paper copy or two wouldn't hurt either.


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## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

I agree completely -- he should have known better and should have had backups.

But, I've got a real problem with the line, "Unless he gets it back, Boldt will have to abandon his dream and quit at the University of Calgary." I understand that re-writing a thesis is no small matter, but just giving up just because it was stolen? Come on.


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## bp936 (Oct 13, 2003)

On the other hand, I have nothing important like a thesis, but I became paranoid after a few times ( many years ago) loosing only the address book. Now I have 5 USB external drives and maybe 20 USB flashdrives and still some old CD's with files.
The end result is, I find some interesting old documents or pictures or formulas for Excerl I wanted to learn, several times. I also keep programs in zipped form backed up, the ones I use for ages and are hard to find again. 

It is a lot easier to back up nowadays without those little floppies having to use.


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## Rich-M (May 3, 2006)

Many of us here say whatever you don't have at least 2 copies of, has to be something you really don't care about.
Win2K is so right about flash drives too as backup as they are potentially so unstable, Newer OS make then optimized for instant removal which helps, though use on XP pc's won't have that luxury unless they are set individually.
Anything that matters should be backed up on another hard drive and mobile hard drives are so easy and stable for laptops especially, and not expensive today either.
And Mike is "dead on" as well. He needs to get over it and rewrite the thesis which surely can be done, all it takes is time.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

I've got an internal 1 tb drive and an external 1 tb drive. I've a folder off of root with my name on it, and keep my file hierarchy in that, nowhere near the 'docs and settings' mess. Keep the external locked up at work, and every monday synch the two.

Reckon that should be good enough.........lord knows I don't want three copies of my data floating around.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

One only has to examine my signature.


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## slurpee55 (Oct 20, 2004)

If I was doing a thesis I would have both a second HD backup and one in the clouds somewhere, I imagine. I feel for the guy, but sheesh.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

win2kpro said:


> For really important data I certainly wouldn't trust a thumb drive since they have a high failure rate.
> 
> If you have data that you absolutely, positively don't want to lose they should be on two different types of media such as an external hard drive AND a CD's or DVD's.


People praise Sold-State Drives for their non-moving parts, saying they are secure because of that. What do you think most SSDs use? Flash Memory. What does a thumb drive use? Flash Memory.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

First off, it's hard to compare the USB FLASH drive with the SSD, because the major issue with the USB FLASH drives has been the interface and the controller. SSD's have a much better interface and more robust controllers for the FLASH. It's very rare for the actual FLASH modules in a USB FLASH drive to fail. The incidents of corruption are similar to the ones that bite USB hard disks as a rule, the wonky USB interface and conflicting drivers. SSD's are typically also not removable, yet another source of corruption of USB FLASH drives. Finally, SSD's will typically be formatted with the NTFS filesystem, which is a journaling filesystem, as opposed to the FAT filesystem used on USB FLASH drives.

If we're talking about reliability and MTBF, I'll take an SSD with the SATA interface over a hard disk with the SATA interface every time and twice on Sundays. Even though they're very reliable, having backups is still just as important as with any other storage media.


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## dustyjay (Jan 24, 2003)

I agree that his Masters Degree must not mean enough to him if he is even considering just quitting. I can't believe that he would not have had at least one printed copy of his work in progress, that way he would be able to scan with an ocr program and catch up much quicker.

Not only do I back up to DVD all of my photos, music, and important documents, I also have dedicated 3 hot swappable Hdd's for imaging my entire system.


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## Ent (Apr 11, 2009)

JohnWill said:


> Even though they're very reliable, having backups is still just as important as with any other storage media.


As this sad tale shows very clearly. It wouldn't matter a whole lot if he had a completely reliable hard drive and backups on a separate partition, thievery wipes out everything else.


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## dustyjay (Jan 24, 2003)

It really makes no sense to store the back ups on a separate Partition of the same hard drive anyway. If the drive dies so does the back up that is why the back ups need to be on a removable drive or media of some sort.


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## Ent (Apr 11, 2009)

dustyjay said:


> It really makes no sense to store the back ups on a separate Partition of the same hard drive anyway. If the drive dies so does the back up that is why the back ups need to be on a removable drive or media of some sort.


There are more than one way for a drive to die. Granted if the hardware is toast there's not much hope. But say the File table blew out on your main partition, lifting off a backup from Partition 2 would still be much easier than rebuilding partition 1.


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## dustyjay (Jan 24, 2003)

You can still keep a back up in a separate partition as a working back up. But keeping an off machine back-up via 2 separate medias such as external Hdd and DVD (or Carbonite for example) is safer for long term back up.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Ent said:


> As this sad tale shows very clearly. It wouldn't matter a whole lot if he had a completely reliable hard drive and backups on a separate partition, thievery wipes out everything else.


Well, there's nothing to say you have to put the backups on a separate partition, and in point of fact, that's not really a backup. One drive failure wipes out your backup with your data. A separate physical device is the only way to have a secure backup, and several backups are even better.


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## Ent (Apr 11, 2009)

I know that.
Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.
And where you put the second copy shows how much you care about the data. Most of my files don't rate the cost or the hassle of an external backup. But a University Treatise should be protected in every way possible, precisely because there are so many ways for it to be destroyed.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> First off, it's hard to compare the USB FLASH drive with the SSD, because the major issue with the USB FLASH drives has been the interface and the controller. SSD's have a much better interface and more robust controllers for the FLASH. It's very rare for the actual FLASH modules in a USB FLASH drive to fail. The incidents of corruption are similar to the ones that bite USB hard disks as a rule, the wonky USB interface and conflicting drivers. SSD's are typically also not removable, yet another source of corruption of USB FLASH drives. Finally, SSD's will typically be formatted with the NTFS filesystem, which is a journaling filesystem, as opposed to the FAT filesystem used on USB FLASH drives.
> 
> If we're talking about reliability and MTBF, I'll take an SSD with the SATA interface over a hard disk with the SATA interface every time and twice on Sundays. Even though they're very reliable, having backups is still just as important as with any other storage media.


1, They make external SSD, which makes them just as removable.
2, If you know what you're doing, the thumb drive will NOT fail more often than SSD. Mine is formatted as HFS+ which is a journaling filesystem too.
3, Read #2, if you know what you're doing....

My thumb drive never failed and I've had it for a number of years. Also the brand and materials in the thumb drive determine how well it will function too. The one I have can be submerged in water and still work without corruption.


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## avisitor (Jul 13, 2008)

If well treated, I've found thumb drives to be fairly reliable. My first thumb drive, a whopping 32MB, still works and it's probably about 8 years old. 

I know we're all focused about his failure to effectively back up the electronic files, but I think it's absolutely crazy that he didn't have any paper copies at home. I know that if I'm working on a major project, I'm going to have some paper copies. Yes, I know it's somewhat environmentally unfriendly, but it gives me some more peace of mind and I also do it because I find it too difficult to comprehensively edit a 50+ page paper on a PC.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

namenotfound said:


> 1, They make external SSD, which makes them just as removable.


Yep, and just as vulnerable to corruption as other USB devices.  If you believe that the USB interface is statistically as reliable as the SATA interface, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to make you a good deal on, you can't afford to pass it up. 



> 2, If you know what you're doing, the thumb drive will NOT fail more often than SSD. Mine is formatted as HFS+ which is a journaling filesystem too.
> 
> 3, Read #2, if you know what you're doing....
> 
> My thumb drive never failed and I've had it for a number of years. Also the brand and materials in the thumb drive determine how well it will function too. The one I have can be submerged in water and still work without corruption.


My USB drives have never failed me either, but I've had other people with problems. Many times it comes from pulling them out while they're updating, if they're formatted with FAT filesystem, that is a bad thing. Your example of HFS+ filesystem is simply a red herring, most folks don't have that option or even know it exists. Since 90% or more run Windows and not a Mac, you're just trying to confuse the issue. Obviously, for my USB hard disks, I run NTFS for the data integrity as well.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> Your example of HFS+ filesystem is simply a red herring, most folks don't have that option or even know it exists. Since 90% or more run Windows and not a Mac, you're just trying to confuse the issue. Obviously, for my USB hard disks, I run NTFS for the data integrity as well.


If I was in your situation, running Windows, I'd format the thumb drive as NTFS. Not confusing the issue, but rather just saying what I use. It is just as easy to format a thumb drive for NTFS as it is HFS+

Just format the thing as NTFS and be happy!

*****************

I think the reason people commented on my thumb drive solution in the first place is they assume that's all I use for backup. I used a thumb drive for backup when out. When I came home, I always copied the files to my G-Safe drive, which is an external device with two drive bays in it and I have it connected via eSATA. It uses RAID1 to protect the date by simultaneously writing to two independent hard disk drives, so if one drive fails the data is still on the other drive. Replacing a dead drive automatically starts copying the date from the good drive, so there's still 2 copies of the data.

BEAT THAT 
What do you use for data backup?


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## avisitor (Jul 13, 2008)

My personal data backup scheme is probably overkill, but I've had several laptops die and I've never lost more than a day's worth of data and I don't plan to. Data from our laptops backs up to my file server in RAID 5, which backs up incrementally to an external HD as well as Carbonite and iDrive. Once a month, I also back my server up to another external HD which I keep in a safe deposit box. Once every few months, I back up and AES encrypt all my really important data to 3 separate sets of BD-Rs, one I keep in a safe in my house, another I keep in a safe deposit box and I keep a third in a relative's house in a different city.


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## thingamajig (Mar 5, 2005)

According to other articles I read on this. He had a backup but it was stolen with the computer.

http://www.switched.com/2010/08/30/thorough-thieves-steal-canadian-students-thesis-backup-resear/



> Now, Boldt was smarter than many users, and backed up all of his work to an external hard drive. But it too was swiped.


This certainly adds wisdom to keeping a second copy at a different location. Personally, I don't depend on one or even two types of media or locations but I've lost work before. It's always much easier the second time around.  Perhaps he could follow the example set by an other of one his favorite books (as stated on facebook), Mikhail Bulgakov, who burned his manuscript and started over. After all, the expertise in in the man and not the manuscript.

His thesis is on Early Hutterite History & Thought. Send him an e-mail with whatever data you have on the topic.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

thingamajig said:


> According to other articles I read on this. He had a backup but it was stolen with the computer.


well, that's just as silly, IMO. We have a 3 piece set-up to remote to our network; laptop, token, and password. The rule states that any 2 of the 3 can be together (e.g., it's fine to transport your token in your laptop bag, but fer godssake, don't tape your password on the token).

Of course, one of the veeps had the whole shebang in his laptop bag which was sitting on the passenger seat of his car whilst he was at dinner. And of course the window was busted, and all three were gone. Facilitated a late night call to deactivate everything.

Matter of fact, that incident was what prompted us to begin installing LoJack.


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

Lets just hope for the best now.


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## Rich-M (May 3, 2006)

avisitor said:


> My personal data backup scheme is probably overkill, but I've had several laptops die and I've never lost more than a day's worth of data and I don't plan to. Data from our laptops backs up to my file server in RAID 5, which backs up incrementally to an external HD as well as Carbonite and iDrive. Once a month, I also back my server up to another external HD which I keep in a safe deposit box. Once every few months, I back up and AES encrypt all my really important data to 3 separate sets of BD-Rs, one I keep in a safe in my house, another I keep in a safe deposit box and I keep a third in a relative's house in a different city.


Not sure if "overkill" is exactly the right word but it certainly is admirable!


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

namenotfound said:


> BEAT THAT
> What do you use for data backup?


I actually don't think I have any problem beating that. 

I have a multi-layer backup here.

My primary data is backed up daily to a separate internal disk on my main working system. Three a week, that system automatically backs all the data up to a Synology DS209 RAID-1 box. The Synology DS-209 has a pair of USB drives hanging off it that it backs up the RAID array to daily. In the basement in a cinderblock enclosure, I have a DNS-321 NAS that gets a weekly backup from the Synology NAS. I also have a 2TB USB drive that I backup once a week to and store in my car, so if I'm gone, I have an off-site backup with me. Finally, I have a Carbonite account that does on-line backup of critical documents and other files that I really don't want to lose.


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## slurpee55 (Oct 20, 2004)

valis said:


> well, that's just as silly, IMO. We have a 3 piece set-up to remote to our network; laptop, token, and password. The rule states that any 2 of the 3 can be together (e.g., it's fine to transport your token in your laptop bag, but fer godssake, don't tape your password on the token).
> 
> Of course, one of the veeps had the whole shebang in his laptop bag which was sitting on the passenger seat of his car whilst he was at dinner. And of course the window was busted, and all three were gone. Facilitated a late night call to deactivate everything.
> 
> Matter of fact, that incident was what prompted us to begin installing LoJack.


That's why you have veeps, no?


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Yup. Job security.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> I actually don't think I have any problem beating that.
> 
> I have a multi-layer backup here.
> 
> My primary data is backed up daily to a separate internal disk on my main working system. Three a week, that system automatically backs all the data up to a Synology DS209 RAID-1 box. The Synology DS-209 has a pair of USB drives hanging off it that it backs up the RAID array to daily. In the basement in a cinderblock enclosure, I have a DNS-321 NAS that gets a weekly backup from the Synology NAS. I also have a 2TB USB drive that I backup once a week to and store in my car, so if I'm gone, I have an off-site backup with me. Finally, I have a Carbonite account that does on-line backup of critical documents and other files that I really don't want to lose.


Ok fine you win :up:


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## jp1203 (Jul 21, 2005)

As far as flash drives go, I've basically stopped buying them because I lose them constantly! Never killed one, though.

My backups certainly aren't as thorough as some people's, but they're better than average. There isn't much that I'd lose that can't be replaced, or that is really all that important. 

Everything saved here goes to a file server with two Western Digital 500 GB drives in a mirrored RAID array, so if one drive fails, the other's still got everything. I have an external HDD that I have a copy of everything on, but I only update that once a week, and it's locked out in my shed. My thinking is that if the house burns, the shed won't...probably. It's relatively far away, so it would have to be a pretty large fire.

If I do lose everything, it wouldn't really be that great a loss...I've got a ton of photos that I really don't care that much about, a lot of music (which can easily be replaced...although it might be costly to do so if something happens to the original CDs), and some documents that I actually could probably just delete now...they're old and I don't foresee ever looking at them again. If something destroyed my three drives, I think I'd have bigger issues than trying to replace a few thousand songs and worrying about lost pictures.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I have years of work product stored that I could never recover. There are times years later that a customer comes back and I need the old data and programs.


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## slurpee55 (Oct 20, 2004)

John, any way I could get you to come convince my boss of that? He wants a paper copy of everything (most of my work is in Access and Excel; most of his is in PowerPoint and Word) with all the programs it is easier to draw from/adapt/print out from an electronic file than from paper, but he wants "backups" in the form of paper on and off-site....


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

That dude better get going to re write his whole "essay". How hard can it be?


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

never written a thesis, have you?


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

valis said:


> never written a thesis, have you?


 I never have and i never intend on doing so


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

good luck in college, then.


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## slurpee55 (Oct 20, 2004)

But arceus12345, that is a huge part of the point. A thesis (not an "essay"!!!!) is generally a 3 to 5 year piece of work - study, making notes and writing it out. "Just" the writing is usually a minimum of 1 to 2 years of work. So losing his thesis is a huge thing.
And actually, he lost more than what he had written - the original article said his hard drive "contains research and notes for the thesis he was writing for his master's degree in history. He only had three chapters left to write before his paper was complete."


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

o now i get it! it must have been terrible for him


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

valis said:


> good luck in college, then.


Lol


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

slurpee55 said:


> John, any way I could get you to come convince my boss of that? He wants a paper copy of everything (most of my work is in Access and Excel; most of his is in PowerPoint and Word) with all the programs it is easier to draw from/adapt/print out from an electronic file than from paper, but he wants "backups" in the form of paper on and off-site....


It's hard to convince a Luddite of anything.


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## arceus12345 (Aug 18, 2010)

slurpee55 said:


> John, any way I could get you to come convince my boss of that? He wants a paper copy of everything (most of my work is in Access and Excel; most of his is in PowerPoint and Word) with all the programs it is easier to draw from/adapt/print out from an electronic file than from paper, but he wants "backups" in the form of paper on and off-site....


 If your boss goes ahead with the plan tell us how many papers he used to print it all


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## slurpee55 (Oct 20, 2004)

arceus12345 said:


> If your boss goes ahead with the plan tell us how many papers he used to print it all


I can't count that high....  :down:


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