# Solved: Interesting problem



## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

okie doke, so I have an outside spigot on my house, back yard. Whenever anyone takes a bath/shower, and *only* those times, it tends to run. Quite a bit, actually. After about 15-20 minutes after said bath/shower, it ceases running. Any attempt to turn it off will result in the 'clicking over' of the spigot, as opposed to wrenching the damn thing shut. By 'clicking over' I mean that it reaches tension, and opposed to holding tension and simply stopping turning, it will go pop and revert to the unthreaded mode. This leads me to believe that the spigot itself has failed, as the front yard spigot (which is directly below both bathrooms with showers) is perfectly fine.

Odd part is that it doesn't do it when, say, the dishwasher or clothes washer is running, and those are both on the first floor. Only when one of the bathrooms with baths is running does this occur.

I guess what I am asking is how hard is to replace an outdoor spigot; that, and does anyone else agree that this could be the issue at hand. They can't be THAT hard to replace...........

......after all, they sold me the damn house, and i haven't the foggiest clue how to fix it.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

You're apparently right, I can't think of a single thing that would cause that other than a simple mechanical failure.

Is this one of the frost-free bibs with the long stem to the valve inside? I've had one of those die and I had to replace it.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

nope, this is houston. Don't have frost down here. 

only thing I can think of (and mind you, I do NOT know the inner workings of a spigot) is that there is a lever that is lowered as you crank the handle clockwise. This lever has since been worn down to a nub, which is allowing it to click over and retract itself to the unthreaded position. Now, as to WHY this would happen, you got me. Shoddy metal, I would assume, but as I list metallurgy right up there with electricity in the 'things I don't know squat about' section of my brain, all I am doing is guesswork.

Wacor? Any ideas?


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

You sure this is not a backflow preventer for a sprinkler or something?

Otherwise it makes no sense to me

A spigot has a valve that closes and there is no way it can release water. It is a mechanical valve and not spring loaded. 

Take a pic


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi Tim.....got your PM.........Sorry, I have no input to offer.

I think Bill has some good advice...take a picture and post it.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

roger that, will do. 

All it is is a spigot sticking out of the side of the house, with a knuckled knob on it to facilitate turning. For whatever reason, it is cranking over as opposed to coming to a complete stop.

But i agree; a pic will probably do better than my half-butted attempts to describe it.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

As far as replacing the whole valve, most of the ones I have seen around here are soldered on, and they run awfully close to the brick. Not an easy chore. 

Is the little wheel on top screwed on tight?

You can probably replace the top part. You'll need to wrenches; one to offset taking off the nut holding on the valve stem.

Honestly, though, I really am not sure why that would happen. With everything off, the maximum pressure is pushing on the faucet. As you use water, It decreases the pressure. The draining of water would have very little to do with the supply of water.

Do you have a sprinkler system, and does it have a triple check valve?


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## EAFiedler (Apr 25, 2000)

Don't you watch the Home Time videos?
You get yourself a new spigot, measure it, cut the pipe off inside, feed the spigot through the outside wall, connect it and SOLDER it. 
Fill the openings, in the wall, with Great stuff and you are set.

Approximate installation time: 2 hours, additional time may be required for swearing.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

solder, sauter....

Nope. Never even heard of Home Time. I reckon it can't be THAT difficult. That said, I really don't have a great track record with plumbing. I've got the swearing part nailed, though.....


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

valis said:


> roger that, will do.
> 
> All it is is a spigot sticking out of the side of the house, with a knuckled knob on it to facilitate turning. For whatever reason, it is cranking over as opposed to coming to a complete stop.
> 
> But i agree; a pic will probably do better than my half-butted attempts to describe it.


when you say spigot I take that to mean it has a handle on it and a hose connection?

where is the picture by the way

Come on .... snap to it


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

working on it....gonna have to be tonight, though.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

wacor said:


> when you say spigot I take that to mean it has a handle on it and a hose connection?
> 
> where is the picture by the way
> 
> Come on .... snap to it


Stoner, please come along and insult wacor. He's getting awfully jittery this morning.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

valis said:


> solder, sauter....
> 
> Nope. Never even heard of Home Time. I reckon it can't be THAT difficult. That said, I really don't have a great track record with plumbing. I've got the swearing part nailed, though.....


I went out and looked and mine last night when I saw your post.  I'm assuming this is the faucet on the side of the house.

Changing the valve stem should not be that hard; it should loosen with a nut. Ummm.... I know you're smarter than the average bear. But remember to turn the water main off. Also, use a wrench and back up taking it off. You don't want to turn the faucet. Those copper lines can easily crack.

Soldering it could be challenging, as most of them are flush with the brick wall.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Drabdr said:


> I went out and looked and mine last night when I saw your post.  I'm assuming this is the faucet on the side of the house.
> 
> Changing the valve stem should not be that hard; it should loosen with a nut. Ummm.... I know you're smarter than the average bear. But remember to turn the water main off. Also, use a wrench and back up taking it off. You don't want to turn the faucet. Those copper lines can easily crack.
> 
> Soldering it could be challenging, as most of them are flush with the brick wall.


valve stems are not universal

you might need to get the same manufacturer and model for it work

Again hose bibs are mechanical valves. Not spring loaded. This sounds like a backflow preventer to me.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

what the heck is a backflow preventer?


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

valis said:


> what the heck is a backflow preventer?


You are a noob when it comes to plumbing 

It does what it says. It prevents water from going backward. So as to provide protection against an outside source from entering a water supply. Most of the time at a residence you would see them on a sprinkler system, water softener or a boiler.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?&p=backflow+preventer+valve&rs=2ni=20&fr=yfp-t-701&fr2=


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I'd turn off the water to the connection and take the guts out and see if something is worn out.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

wacor said:


> You are a noob when it comes to plumbing
> 
> It does what it says. It prevents water from going backward. So as to provide protection against an outside source from entering a water supply. Most of the time at a residence you would see them on a sprinkler system, water softener or a boiler.
> 
> http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?&p=backflow+preventer+valve&rs=2ni=20&fr=yfp-t-701&fr2=


yup.....all I know is when water is flowing when it shouldn't be to turn off the main switch......


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I don't think I've ever seen a backflow prevention device on standard home outside faucets.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a backflow prevention device on standard home outside faucets.


They are standard here

You can buy one that screws onto the faucet and they make faucets with them built in.

But that is not what is going on here. Because there is a manual valve on the faucet that is closed to begin with.


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

valis said:


> what the heck is a backflow preventer?


...have been required in the Houston area on all new houses, since the late 80's Tim.

And as the IPN stated. they prevent water outside of your house, from entering the fresh water plumbing inside of your house. 
In addirion to irrigation systems, one of those outside water sources, is also your garden hose. If you simply shut off the end user device on your garden hose, but leave the water valve on, what can happen is, if the hose becomes exposed to sunlight, or run over by a car in a driveway, than the water pressure in the garden hose may become greater that the supply pressure to your home, allowing a possable contamination of your house water! 
It works by pissing, or bleeding off the excess pressure in the outside device, normally when the valve has been closed off.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

My house was built in 1989, and I've worked on plumbing in houses much newer, never seen or even heard mentioned backflow prevention for PA housing.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

I have the V3 on my house:

http://www.mmcontrol.com/backflow_prevention_devices.htm


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Nothing like that here.


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## EAFiedler (Apr 25, 2000)

We don't use those here in Indiana...is your house on stilts?


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

any chance of a picture.
No idea why it would run when the shower or bath is running, 

very unlikely, but i have been caught out before when trying to isolate a leak, water can travel quite a way 
there's a leak in the shower /bath and as it fills with water it runs down a pipe and comes out around the outside tap and looks like the tap is running, but that assumes the pipe from the bath/shower is vertical to the outside tap.
As i say unlikely from your description - but the only reason I could think of why a switched off tap would look like its running water, and the pressure should reduce when bath/showers are running, unless its PUMPED and also connected to the outside tap - so the increase in PUMP pressure is enough to get through the tap, but then once open by the pressure, should never stop on lower pressure ..


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

well, figured it out. Actually, it figured itself out.  The valve itself was totally stripped. Yesterday morning it popped completely off and flooded the backyard. Hit home depot on the way home, got a new valve and some pipe glue, took the old one off of the pipe coming out of the house (hardest part, incidentally), threaded on some teflon tape and some of the pipe glop, threaded the new one one, added the backflow thingamabobber, works great.


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## EAFiedler (Apr 25, 2000)

Two hours plus swearing time?


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

easy. Only I call them 'power words'.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

See post #2, it almost had to be a simple mechanical failure.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

still makes no sense how a mechanical valve would do this. I could see it start leaking but not stop and start like you described. Even though this is solved how about a picture


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## etaf (Oct 2, 2003)

one to put in my notebook.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

wacor said:


> still makes no sense how a mechanical valve would do this. I could see it start leaking but not stop and start like you described. Even though this is solved how about a picture


don't got a picture. Can take one of a large pile o' mud, though.

Have no idea as to why it happened. Seems to be flat out mechanical failure. It started by clicking over (not shutting entirely) and then it just failed. When I took it off last night, you could quite literally just spin the valve and no response at all.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I can see how this could happen. The full pressure of the water when the shower wasn't on kept the parts pressed together. However, when the shower reduced the water pressure to the damaged valve, it allowed it to relax enough to have water flow.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

I'd just never heard of the valve stem itself crapping out. Reckon if it was going to be anyone's house on the block, it had to be mine.......


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Depending on the age, and how many times it was used, as well as the acidity of the water, it could have just eroded away over time. I've seen the threads in pretty bad shape and very loose, but I never had one actually strip out in the faucet.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

yup, as have I. but that was in our house in colorado, and that thing was 60 years old. this house is 6 years old. We were the second people on the block to buy, our neighbors were the first. We've gone through the a/c compressor, the outdoor faucet, had one toilet water line blow and one toilet itself just become unglued. Literally. Had to re-wax it and refasten the dang thing.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

FWIW, I've had several of the copper pipes spring a leak in this house, and it was right in the middle of the run. Not sure if it was defective pipe or really bad water.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

weeelllllll, bad water certainly WOULD answer a few of the questions I'd been meaning to ask you.............


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

just out of curiosity, how old is the house?


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

My house is coming up on 21 years old.


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