# Myths.....Win95....on the internet.



## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Several days ago. I was in a conversation where the topic went from the stability and security issues of XP to stability and security of 9x operating systems.
I agree completely that Win2k and XP are superior systems, but....there are still some people using 9x on older equipment that look for help. 
The fellow I was debating claimed all 9x users should immediately upgrade to 2K or XP or buy a new computer.
Is it proper to persuade them to immediately upgrade or even buy new computers? 
If their system fulfills their needs and their security works for them, why not keep what they have?
If something goes wrong, and it happens to old and new computer, why not help them fix what they have?

So, a 9x user has problems................
One, it's unknown if the system they have is faulting from hardware or software problems, so an upgrade is inappropriate at that point.
Two, many older systems don't have the specs to provide acceptable speed. So, an upgrade is especially worthless and the purchase of a new comp possibly unnecessary if repair of hardware or a reinstall of the OS is a solution to their needs.
Three, there is the financial consideration of whether a user wants to spend the extra money if the old system had previously been functioning to their needs.
And some people are stubborn 

A claim was made that 9x was neither stable nor secure for internet usage.
I commented I had been using a 98se computer with good success for what I do.
But the disagreement continued.

So, I decided to run a simple test using win95 on a Celeron 500 with 192 mb memory, onboard sound and video, and using it on line for the next month or so, and see what kind of stability issues and security problems crop up.

The computer was bought at a city auction for $10, several years ago. I suspect it's worth less today 
Extra memory came from scarffing up junk computer parts here and there, no real expense. 
The comp came with an ethernet card.
The hard drive worked, passed the mfg. tests, but was quite whiney, so I replaced it with a used 6gig WesternDigital that also cost little to nothing.
The win95 install disk was bought at a business auction several years ago.....$5.
I put a Kyphermedia(?) CDRW in it that I bought new for $15 at OfficeMax, that is really intended for a different computer.

The install is several months old, but was not online but several hours till I recently decided to see how it fared on the Internet full time.
I started using this machine seriously on Oct 20.

The install went properly. No glitches.

Most software that I wanted to install, did install and function correctly.
Exceptions were:
Norton Antivirus has been reported to not install properly.
I used the free AVG 7.

Adaware se will not install. I copied the Adaware se folder out of a 98se install and ran it until something else I installed conflicted. Not sure, but I think it was the DX8.0 upgrade as Adaware functioned till then. But, Adaware se will upgrade it's defs properly and will run in Safe Mode.

Spybot 1.4 won't run. I installed version 1.3 and upgraded it's defs manually with 1.4's defs as I found other users doing.

BHODemon will run and register the BHOs, but lacks the registry script to store an active BHO you might want to 'kill'. (Once known, Hijackthis can be used.)

Spyware blaster doesn't recogonize the existence of Firefox. The win95 method of install leaves a Firefox file structuere devoid of the files needed for recognition. I compared the program files in 95 to 98se and merely copied the excess files into the 'tree' and opened Spywareblaster. It recogonized Firefox's presence and seemingly wrote the necessary 'kill bits' to the registry. Then I renamed the extra files till the next Spywareblaster update....yes a little bit of a hassle, not too bad, though.
___________________________

Side notes:
Internet Explorer 5.5 was installed as it had code in it some apps needed, like MS Money and Firefox 1.07.
To install Firefox, this is a good source of info: http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/windows_95/
( one drawback is that Firefox won't import favorites from an outside source. The htm Favorites file you want to import can be dragged into the Firefox Bookmarks Manager, making it a web page and all the favorites..... links. From there you can open the favorite and then save it....I know...a hassle...but IMO, worth it if you want to use Firefox. )

I did the standard tweaks on Firefox's configuration as with 98se.
Firefox seems to perform the same as on a P3 500 98se machine I use. Nice.

I picked up win95 msconfig a long time ago, for an older laptop. I do not remember where it came from, sorry.

Defrag is from win me.

PaintShop Pro 7 is the free download version....thanks to hewee..:up:

Taskmanager is a small app from: http://www.securitysoftware.cc/apps.html

I installed Karen Kenworthy's Computer Profiler from here: http://www.karenware.com/powertools/powertools.asp
( She has lots of free software that is useful  )

The CDRW does a fine job with out burning coasters. It will burn from the hard drive at 40x , a 500mb iso file with out the buffer going lower that 96%.

My security apps are:
AVG 7 (free version)
Norton Firewall 2000
Spywareblaster
Spybot S&D
Adaware se
Hijackthis
BHODemon
Firefox has the NoScript, Adblock, RIP and Flashblock extensions installed.

I am also behind a Linksys firewall router.

I pass GRC's firewall test.
I pass GRC's leaktest.

I am using an early version of Abiword rather than MS Word, just as a test to see how well it replaces Word 2000.

I have gotten three BSOD's trying to get Adaware se to run under Windows after installing DX8.0. As I mentioned earlier, it will update itself but not run a scan with out locking up in 'normal' windows.....but will run in safe mode.

_____________________

Things I don't like.

Double clicking the mouse 

Window size for anything less than 'full' varies and it's placement on the desktop a bit random.

The worst is not having good USB coverage. USB flash drives are so convenient now, but I also have a scanner and camera I can't access with win95.

Voice recognition won't run on win95 and most likely not this machine as it's specs are too near the minimum.

Well, if you read this far, you probably wonder why? Why bother? Who cares?
I don't care that much, myself. Just curious. 
Win 95 isn't popular today and probably never will be again.
But there are a few people still using it and using their computer as they intended, otherwise they upgrade to what they need.

I was told 9x is too unstable and not secure enough for Internet usage.

Well, I'm going to give win95 a spin for a month or so and report back periodically on how it stacks up as an Internet surfing machine, whether the security I installed is enough, whether it is stable enough to use .

( Please understand that this is not a recommendation to use win95 or 98se over 2K/ XP  )

Attached is a screen shot of the desktop. I haven't decided on wallpaper yet.....maybe a nice XP scene


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

sweet.....takes me back a few.....i know exactly what thread you are referring to, and I held my opinion then as I do now....but still, pretty dang impressive that you managed to cobble that together.....


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

I still use 95OSr2 on an old 133Mhz 32Mb laptop. It is used as a mail server and black box firewall for a network whose only access to the internet is via dial up on a free phone line from this machine. It has run without fail for 3 years. The only maintenamce is to AVG for definition updates. The firewall is Sygate 5.0.
I have no intention of replacing it until it fails.


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## Kenny94 (Dec 16, 2004)

> Well, I'm going to give win95 a spin for a month or so and report back periodically on how it stacks up as an Internet surfing machine, whether the security I installed is enough, whether it is stable enough to use


Please do. I like to know your results.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.


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## Shelly6 (Aug 5, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.


This was why I had to get a new machine. If I had the space I would have kept the old one purely for net surfing. It is still a perfectly usable computer. I even still have a Compaq Contura laptop with Win95. Why should we keep throwing things away? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



Stoner said:


> Attached is a screen shot of the desktop. I haven't decided on wallpaper yet.....maybe a nice XP scene


Exactly what I did.  I will follow this one with great interest. :up:


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

JohnWill said:


> The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.


 Hey John, it has been years since I used win9x on a daily basis. I still have an old machine hooked up in the basement running win 98 for my old dos games though.

I was wondering if one of the tools to free up resources, ram idle comes to mind, would work to free the resources without a reboot. I know ram tools are worthless on an NT system but would one work on win9x?


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

There are tons of little utilities that claim to "solve" the resource issue with W9x, but none of them ever worked for me. 

I resisted W2K until about 2001, I always felt "comfortable" with W98. I finally bit the bullet and moved on to NT based systems, and I've never regretted the move.

Anyone that experiences less reliable operation with 2K/XP than W98 needs to look at configuration or hardware reliability issues IMO. It's not that W98 can't do the job, but it's almost 2006 folks. W98 lost the battle and is an aging warrior, get over it and move on!


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

LOL, I have moved on but I love ******* rampage. That game makes me laugh my dumb arse off. As long as I can patch together an old system I'll have a win98 box.

I have had to steal parts from it on occasion but I always find a replacement. I am getting my father in laws machine this weekend. There is some sort of failure on boot. I am figuring a CPU fan but until I get it here in the house I won't know. The bios comes up, and then gives a warning that it can not complete the boot due to something failed. I am betting on the CPU fan. It isn't the HDD, that part passes but trying to talk to my mother in law over the phone to diagnose the problem just didn't work.

Hell, she can't even tell me if the fans are running or not.  Deaf ol bitty.


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## Mikrondel (Jun 21, 2005)

Shelly6 said:


> This was why I had to get a new machine. If I had the space I would have kept the old one purely for net surfing. It is still a perfectly usable computer. I even still have a Compaq Contura laptop with Win95. Why should we keep throwing things away? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Well said. I think many people who complain a Pentium 3 isn't fast enough are nuts. Sure you need fast computers for business, and, I concede, those stupid resource-hungry games, but my regular workstation has Windows 2000 on a Pentium 2. For almost all things it runs perfectly adequately.
I run a Linux server on a 12-year old machine. It's still reliable.

I think there's a lot of value in old hardware, and it just needs to be used appropriately. There's a nice Linux GUI called Anti-Right, designed to run on older machines. Sure it's not as pretty, but there's many people (myself inlcuded) who don't care for rounded edges or translucent windows. Especially when you only use it for occasional admin.

Bottom line- if you don't want it, give it to someone who does. I even wouldn't mind paying a few dollars for a working 386. If it's broken- remember, there are many parts and they're probably not _all_ broken. (Especially older computers, before the days of onboard graphics, sound, and network cards)


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Mornin' everyone 

I chose win95 as it's support by MS has been cut off for quite some time and most security apps aren't written with any consideration of running on it. I could have installed 98se, but I already use it and have previously commented on my experiences using it.

Obviously, Win95 is outdated. Many many things users have grown used to doing, don't happen on that platform. 
But  I'm only testing it as a means to surf the Internet.

I'm not an expert, just a user reporting what I see in this simple demonstration 

A week ago, Spybot and Adaware both caught Alexa that comes bundled in Internet Explorer. Nothing else to date.
Here are some pics.
The desktop........I put up a WinXP theme 
The computer....a lowly Celeron in a 'wide body' case that I laid on it's side because of space considerations ( I use a 4 port KVM )
And screen shots of the tests.
A week isn't much of a test, but I'll report back about once a week anyway.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

BTW, to take the photo of the computer, I had to first use another computer that could download the file from my camera( USB issue ). That's one strike against win95. So I used a win98se computer  and transferred the file with an old fashioned floppy.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

The term Luddite comes to mind.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

JohnWill said:


> The term Luddite comes to mind.


It was the XP wallpaper theme, wasn't it _

I knew I'd probably gone too far there ....

Anyone have a install set of floppies for win3.1.......LOL!....(j/k)


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Well, the XP wallpaper did push me over the edge, before I was only thinking Luddite.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Now, JohnWill ...I'm not against using computers .....why heck....here I am on the internet talking to all the world _

( Just happens I'm currently using equipment that's a little old.....now there's an idea...I'll call this computer... age-stabilized  )


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 19, 2005)

I quit using Ad Aware and Norton a few years back .. Haven't missed either one yet? A hardware firewall works for me but I also use XP's built in one with no exceptions.

Good Luck Jack.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Space Cowboy said:


> I quit using Ad Aware and Norton a few years back .. Haven't missed either one yet? A hardware firewall works for me but I also use XP's built in one with no exceptions.
> 
> Good Luck Jack.


Mornin' SC 

When I went broadband, about 2 years ago, I installed a Linksys firewall router.I immediately noticed a lot less 'traffic' that my software firewall had to deal with. 
I always blocked a lot of issues ( active x ) and what-not when using IE, and when Firefox came out and extensions like NoScript, FlashBlock and adBlock are installed, adware seemed to disappear. I think I might give IE a try on this box, later, just to see how it stacks up security-wise against Firefox.

Yeah, I hear you on the Norton thing. I see a lot of complaints about their new AV and firewall products. This version ( 2000 ) is actually quite configurable and efficient.....so long as the 'automatic rule making' option is turned off. I thought about trying a freeware firewall like Kerio. I might just give it a spin to see how it compares.

My mom has a laptop online. Win XP home. It's behind a firewall router but with the MS firewall turned off and a Norton 2002 firewall installed. It's been online about 2 years. Never had to use system restore and never found any spyware/adware. My mother-in-law has a winXP machine, been online about a year and I have to help her clean out the 'baddies' almost every time I visit _

I know many reading this thread probably think going back to 95 is foolishness. Well, maybe it is. But just as an Internet surfing box, so far, it seems to fill the goals. I haven't added Java yet to Firefox as I don't use it under 98se or win2k. I'll install it later to see if it even runs under win95.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Hiya Jack, I don't think what your are doing is foolish at all. If I had the resources ready at hand I'd hook my 98 machine to the web in a heartbeat. It isn't really needed though so I haven't pursued it much. I have 2 machines hooked up now.

I miss the old days with win9x. The internet was new and exciting to me back then and that is most likely where the nostalgia is for me. Hey, the way things are now I may not get to upgrade for a very long time. I have to have back surgery to repair 2 herniated discs and have some bones fused. Boy am I looking forward to that.  There is a bright spot though, I have a bottle of percocets.

Workmans comp sucks but I am not going to lose any of my toys like I thought I was going to at first.

I'll keep my eye on this thread. It is amusing to me because I know why the thread exists. Take care of yourself Mr. Jack. :up:


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

> There is a bright spot though, I have a bottle of percocets.


There's always a silver lining on the cloudiest of days


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Yep, that and getting paid for not working while still employed. What else could a guy ask for??


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Free broadband


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I forgot to mention one of the features I like about the Norton 2000 firewall.
And that's the floating Norton appbar.
It is configured by placing a shortcut of 'Iamapp' onto the desktop, right clicking it and then 'properties'. Then click on the shortcut tab and in the 'target ' box....add " -appbar". Make sure there is a blank space between EXE" and the "-" so that it reads: "C:\Program Files\Norton Internet Security\IAMAPP.EXE" -appbar

It not only gives fast access to settings and such, it also displays network connections.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 19, 2005)

Good morning Guy's 

Free bottle of percocets AND getting paid? Yehaw. DR. wanted to put me in the hospital 6 weeks ago but working for a company with under 25 employees I don't get time off and could be fired. So I opted to work with meds and got wrote up for lack of performance  

Hopefully you will heal fast and be as good as new. 

Anyway .. I've always disliked Firewalls. There is supposed to be a hardware firewall built into this DFI Mother but it seems the software to use it is a resource hog and don't work to good. Thats as of the last time I tried it anyhow. I just use a router that has a built in firewall and WinXP Pro's and I don't have any issues? At least that I know of? Ran those tests at that place you mentioned and came up fine? I also dislike Firefox and prefer Avant. It's lighter on the system resources and I just prefer the way it works.

I keep a pretty close eye on low system resource hoggin software so let me know if your looking for something in peticular.

Do you have any links for tests I should try on the firewall issus cause I'm curious. It may just be my surfing habits .. but I doubt it .. I'm all over the place. 

I can't remeber the last that I got any baddies?


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi SC 

Someone over in Security (I think) posted several sites to test firewalls. I recogonized one that I had used some time ago to test all the ports.
I've got the router set well, so I'm stealthed.
Lately, I go to grc.com and run Gibson's tests.

Biggest problem with win95 and security apps is just finding current ones that run on 95....LOL!


Never tried Avant. I might give it a try on this win95 box. I checked their site and it seems supported on 95 :up:


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I just tried out the RSS feature in Firefox and it works like a charm :up:


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 19, 2005)

> Lately, I go to grc.com and run Gibson's tests.


Yeah thats the ones that say I'm fine.

Avant has that RSS feed stuff to.

If you decide to try it get it from THEIR website and go for the Lite version.

Maybe I don't have any problems cause I don't do JAVA?

Laters

P.S. Check out F-Prot for AV .. Low resource and works with all windows


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I just noticed, Avant seems to run on the IE engine.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 19, 2005)

Stoner said:


> I just noticed, Avant seems to run on the IE engine.


Yeah heard that before.. And it probably does. I dunno. Look for a Internet Explorer folder here?

All I know is it does everthing IE does so I don't need more than one browser.

And it's fast


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## iaavagent (Jan 11, 2004)

Hey folks,
Been using W95,with IE5, on a Gateway 2000 that my son gave me 2 1/2 years ago. He used it since 96. Have no AV,firewall etc and never have had a problem! {knock on wood!}
Lucky?, maybe so, but I read long ago that most hackers etc just don't bother with W95.
Do run HJT now and then but nothing shows up, Boring!

I just use it to research stocks, come to TSG, Email, Foodnetwork etc. Nothing fancy, just basic stuff.

The cmos/bios battery is original,{high capacity type} although I just bought a replacement just in case.

I do have to reboot now and then to regain resources. 
Also I only have Explorer at start up as I slimed down to that and it works fine even without systray! 

I know I still can get rid of more programs and will? however I have a DAO 3.5 that I have no idea what it's for?? I think my son had it since he used this pute for work at home,bank job. Any ideas?

I'll use it till it goes but sure have got my monies worth !{it was free} 

Good luck to all!


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Just a follow up..........
Only several MRUs have shown up in Adaware...no risks there.

Spybot is acting up since the last 'detection' update, yesterday.
It complains(Error) about not being able to check Win.ini claiming some other process is using it. It appears to be an eratic problem with users, when I did a Google search. But then, I'm updating 1.3 with 1.4 defs, so I suspect there's a conflict now. I uninstalled and reinstalled 1.3 and got no errors. Again downloaded the latest 'detection' update for 1.4 and the same error was thrown.
Oddly enough, a clean bill of health was given each time.
I'll keep using Spybot, but I'm not so sure it's reliable now 


I got rid of Acrobat Reader and installed Foxit......nice, loads much faster and removed the BHO associated with Acrobat.

attached is a Highjackthis log......

No blue screens or lockups since my last report
Also installed PhotoFiltre and it's plugins, just to try it out. Nice. 


If any win95 users are reading this and have suggestions for security apps that work, please post them. 

I just gave a-squared a try......no go.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Well, this is interesting 
A Spybot scan can be run from outside the OS .

http://www.safer-networking.org/en/faq/43.html
and 
http://www.safer-networking.org/en/faq/41.html

I have Bart's PE.
I can scan win95 several ways.
I can scan from the 1.3 version already installed, using Barts.
I can instal 1.4 into win95 and scan using Barts.
I can scan from a 1.4 copied folder from a win98se instal, using Barts.

Barts is pretty slick, IMHO 
I was able to take a screen shot with 'Print Screen' and paste it to the Wordpad app in Barts, then copy that to the C:\ drive and in win95, again copy/paste to Paint.

Notice that Barts basically keeps the same file structure as 9x even though it is a live CD. Makes it nice to work with.

BTW, scanning with version 1.3 and 1.4 Spybot came up clean


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Some more info.
I had installed a-squared 1.6, which is a trojan/worm scanner.

http://www.emsisoft.com/en/

I chose the free version.
It installed, opened up, and updated itself OK. It has to be registered and accomplish at least one update before it will scan.
a-squared is only supported in 98 and up.
No matter how many times I updated it, it would not scan. I was unable to find anyone sucessfully using it under win95.

So I booted into Barts PE, clicked on the a-squared exe in the win95 program files, it requested an update, it updated (Barts PE can establish an internet connection) ......and ran on the Barts PE platform.

The scan was clean 

So, there is another security tool I can use 

BTW, I didn't realize Barts had Paint in it's app list. That made a screen shot easier to save.


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

Wow, Stoner, thanks...This is good stuff...


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## Big-K (Nov 22, 2003)

Stoner said:


> Anyone have a install set of floppies for win3.1.......LOL!....(j/k)


Yes, yes I do. Actually I have them for 3.1, and 3.0. I use them when i'm installing 95 or 98 since my copies of both are upgrade editions. I also occassionally use them to install 3.x


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

ekim68 said:


> Wow, Stoner, thanks...This is good stuff...


You're welcome


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Big-K said:


> Yes, yes I do. Actually I have them for 3.1, and 3.0. I use them when i'm installing 95 or 98 since my copies of both are upgrade editions. I also occassionally use them to install 3.x


Hi Big-K 

Have you gone online with win3.x?


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Here's a little jewel I dug up.....on the win95 OCR2 instal CD, there is an app called Hwdiag.exe. Hwdiag.exe lists every key in the Windows Registry that refers to hardware in your system.
It is in the \Other\Misc\Hwtrack folder on the CD.


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## Shelly6 (Aug 5, 2005)

Stoner said:


> Some more info.
> I had installed a-squared 1.6, which is a trojan/worm scanner.
> 
> http://www.emsisoft.com/en/
> ...


I have had a-squared for a while now and it has never ever found anything, which is a bit upsetting because I don't know if it works.  
Keep up the good work.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Shelly6 said:


> I have had a-squared for a while now and it has never ever found anything, which is a bit upsetting because I don't know if it works.
> Keep up the good work.


Hi Shelly6 

Thanks.

Have you had other security apps find trojans/worms that a-squared was supposed to catch and didn't?
I've been thinking of trying several of the online scanners , also.
Have you had any experience with them?
Rollin' Rog listed several here: LINK


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Avast also runs on the win95 platform.

http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

I didn't uninstall AVG, I just made sure it was turned off before I installed Avast and made sure AVG was turned off when I run Avast.
All seems to work well without conflicts.

So, that's another security app that works on win95.

I know this comp has only been online a short time, but my impressions for usage as an Internet surfing box are so far ...favorable.


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## Shelly6 (Aug 5, 2005)

Stoner said:


> Hi Shelly6
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


I must be one of the lucky ones I guess. I have ZoneAlarm, AVG, Spybot and AdAware, with a-squared being rarely used. I get the usual adware but have only ever had a couple of viruses. I'm slowly cutting the ads and popups with a rather large hosts file, but I believe that it has more to do with careful use. I haven't used an online scanner, probably because I'm a bit paranoid.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Shelly6 said:


> ...........................
> ..............
> ........ I haven't used an online scanner, probably because I'm a bit paranoid.



I do know what you mean... LOL!

Same here


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea I hate online scanners where I have to use IE and lower the setting on it and ZoneAlarm to do a scan.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

On my 98se computer, I would only run security scans about once every other week, as nothing was turning up but MRUs in Adaware.
For demonstration, I've been more cautious with the win95 install to see how well it compares.
I've run tests against the firewall at http://www.grc.com/ and more comprehensive tests at 
http://www.auditmypc.com/ and http://scan.sygatetech.com/
I also ran the browser test at PCFlank: http://www.pcflank.com/

My firewall passes all tests but the PCFlank, which complains that information is escaping through the browser(user agent) and referer, firewall settings.
So I went back to GRC to see what was being leaked.

This is a regular (non secure connection)


> Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
> Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
> Connection: keep-alive
> Host: www.grc.com
> ...


This is a secure connection:


> Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
> Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
> Connection: keep-alive
> Host: www.grc.com
> ...


Looking closely, on a non secure (regular) connection, my firewall blocks 'referer' completly and garbles 'User Agent'.
I don't see a problem here.
Anyone else see a reason for concern??

My security :
AVG 7 (free version) run in regular and safe mode
Avast! run in safe mode
a-squared run in Barts PE
Norton Firewall 2000
Spywareblaster
Spybot S&D 
version 1.3 run in win95 and Barts PE
version 1.4 (from a folder) run in Barts PE
Adaware se
run in safe mode 
Hijackthis
BHODemon
Firefox 1.07 has the NoScript, Adblock, RIP and Flashblock extensions installed.

Linksys firewall router

All of my security scans passed without anything but several MRUs showing up in Adaware this morning 

No BSODs to report.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I'll not be outdone!! (well maybe I have since I only have 98 but)

I installed 98 SE and am dual booting. I didn't do this as an experiment, I wanted to play my old games without being banished to the basement.

Ya should see 98 run on a 3700+ and a gig of ram, machine slightly OC'd.   This brings back memories. I am using it now. Cool.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Dang ......sounds cool 
Guess things happen a lot quicker on new machines _


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I gave it 30 gigs. I really wanted to install my games. I have ******* Rampage and RR Rides again on it so far. YeeHaw!!

I'll dig out some more tomorrow. It is funny. I didn't have to do squat to get this thing to recognize all the memory, and getting USB2 to work was as simple as installing the drivers off the mobo disk. Lan was the same way. Everything just worked. I am shocked actually.

I did have to set the tcpip higher. I was only getting 64 KB a second down, but since applying the fix I am up to 200, same as XP really. I am keeping this partition, this is fun.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

My scan are like yours Stoner and I am alway clean.

But the browser test at PCFlank is not anything I think we have to worry about. 

You have to give out info for your browser to show up right at web site.
Guess if you was behind some anonymous Internet surfing software then it may hide all that.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

LOL, I tried to install spysweeper on 98. The machine freaked out. I had so many fatal erors it isn't even funny immediately after spysweeper install. I never even ran it.

I'd say it is not compatable for sure.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Skivvywaver said:


> LOL, I tried to install spysweeper on 98. The machine freaked out. I had so many fatal erors it isn't even funny immediately after spysweeper install. I never even ran it.
> 
> I'd say it is not compatable for sure.


Thanks for the warning, Scott :up:
It was hard to find the specs on Spy Sweeper but I finally found them here:
http://www.webroot.com/consumer/products/spysweeper/

If you have 98se, it should have installed.


> Minimum System Requirements
> 
> * Windows 98 SE, 2000, Me or XP
> * 300 Mhz processor
> ...


Sounds like a conflict with other software, perhaps?
Some apps don't play nice together.
I tried Ewidow on my win2k box, but as long as it was installed, the Norton 2002 firewall was broken. 
I posted that at TSG, but appearently no one else had that problem.....go figure 

I was then so uncertain of the security, I flipped a recent drive image back on it 

I've also run Stinger, but it is so limited in scope....I doubt I'll run it often.
I also have run f-prot, the DOS version, but I really don't know how effective it is and it doesn't seem to be updated often.

You might even try booting into a Bart PE live cd and run some tests for kicks 
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Check out the 'BartPE Installer v2' under plugins. ...... It works.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I am running AVG free, zone alarm pro, adaware pro using adwatch, spybot immunized, and that is about it.

The only spyware I have found is the normal alexa stuff and a few tracking cookies. I won't be getting those anymore because of cookie management.

Lets just say I am having a blast. I had forgotten most of what I knew about 98. I had to even figure out how to install tweak ui all over again. 

For my dos games I'll use 98 because I have to. I haven't tried any newer games but I'd say they might have some problems. I'll give them a go after I play with 98 for a few more days. I am beginning to think I should have maybe stuck with direct x 7 or 8 though. I have 9c on here right now. I just have to fiddle with it later. 

I am going to have to go see if I can find the cuss packs for ******* Rampage. More fun when the ******** cuss you out for shooting them.

LOL, Later Jack.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Still doing good here Jack. I am on XP at the moment but my 98 install has been surfing the net the same as the XP install has. No problems at all other than the interface is butt ugly. 

There are things you can do with 98 you will never do with an NTFS system and vice versa. I have been up for two nights playing dos games. Fun man, this thread inspired me to move 98 from the basement and into my computer room.  ******* Rampage   :up:


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

A beautiful screeny.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Mornin' Scott 

I originally wrote this thread up just out of curiosity 
win95 is definitely limited compared to win98se, which I started out learning on.
This box was originally intended for a cheap way to fool around with an installed distro of Linux. I have another hard drive with Mandrake 10 on it that I intend to reattach after I've run the 95 a bit longer.

98se is much more versatile/useful than 95. But 95 does all that I need as a surfing box.

One day 9x will probably disappear, as the newest hardware becomes unrecognized. But it's still useful today. I can see 95 being squeezed out of meaningful/current security apps soon. I had to scrounge and do a few work arounds (  ) to make some of them run. 98se would have been no problem....but I already knew that.

I'm not much of a gamer, so I don't keep up or even follow the 'cutting edge' of hardware.
For my online activities, I had recently been switching from a P3 500 98se box to a P3 800 win2k box, till this 'experiment' with 95 came up.


I saw where the Industry adviser, Gartner, advised businesses not to go to Vista till 2008.






Nice classic Windows wallpaper ....:up:......


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Yeah, the last time I used windows 95 was on an old machine at work years ago. That thing only had a Pentium, not Pentium II processor in it and if I remember correctly was 100 mhz and had 64 meg of ram in 2 banks of 32 meg.

It wasn't bad for what I needed it for as long as when I booted it up in the morning I had something else to do for a few minutes while I waited for it to load up. The company had Norton and McAfee on it which really caused it to be slow. Internet wise it was fine though.

I know 98 SE is leaps and bounds better than 95 and to be truthful I wish I had a 95 disk but I don't. I really only want 98 for the old gamer in me, XP kicks 98's butt in my newer games some of which just really hate 98 to the point they are all but unplayable.

I haven't even booted 98 yet today, but I will afterwhile. It is fun for me to learn all over again what made 9x tick. I upgraded to XP in 2001 so it has been a very long time since I had the enjoyment of playing with 98. My last 9x machine actually had ME on it. If you want a bad 9x experience, that is where you should be. 

Take her easy Jack, and keep us informed of your experiment. :up:


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hidy ho Skivvy 

I was surfing around and caught this link to making a win98 live CD.
I already have BartsPE, but this looks interesting.

http://www.winimize.com/
http://winimize.com/min98.html
and
http://winimize.com/bootcd.html


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Just found a link to making a win95 live cd:

http://www.geocities.com/freedatarecovery/


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I'll give it a go if I can get a full version.

I think my sister has a win95 cd she isn't using. Maybe I can bum it for a few. I can't be left out of the win95 experience. I wanna play too.


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## gyrgrls (Nov 22, 2004)

Skivvywaver said:


> I'll give it a go if I can get a full version.
> 
> I think my sister has a win95 cd she isn't using. Maybe I can bum it for a few. I can't be left out of the win95 experience. I wanna play too.


Go for the gusto! Get a copy of MS-Windows 3.11, or better yet, 1.0, 
if you can find it.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

How big of a partition would I need for win 95? I am thinking 1 or 2 gig just for playing around with it. My sister says if she can find the disk I can have it for keeps. For nothin even. 

What is a good size for 95 to be comfortable on?


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I have Win1.01 on a bootable floppy.



And that's about as useful as an electric typewriter during a power outage 

I'll post a screen shot in a few minutes.....I have to go get my camera _


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Sorry for the poor quality shots, but here's Win 1.01 from a bootable floppy:


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

One more .....a calendar!


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Skivvywaver said:


> How big of a partition would I need for win 95? I am thinking 1 or 2 gig just for playing around with it. My sister says if she can find the disk I can have it for keeps. For nothin even.
> 
> What is a good size for 95 to be comfortable on?


I gave myself 3 gig and filled the partition up with 1 gig. Best to have a decent cushion there. The original fresh install was maybe 100~150 mb ...I forget 
I did add some content


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

OK Jack, I should have my disk in a few days. The only bear is I am most likely going to have to do repair installs on everything in order to get it installed. 

I am going to have to do some googling and reading.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Skivvywaver said:


> OK Jack, I should have my disk in a few days. The only bear is I am most likely going to have to do repair installs on everything in order to get it installed.
> 
> I am going to have to do some googling and reading.


Sounds a bit ugly.....you having to move things around??

How about installing 95 to a small old drive and using something like Partition Magic's Boot Magic to dual/tripple boot it??


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I am already triple booting. I am running 98, xp, and xp64. I was quad booting for awhile but I found windows 2000 pretty much useless in my scheme so I did away with it.

If x64 ever catches up to xp in terms of gaming I'll most likely stop booting xp. I am however starting to think x64 is the new windows ME, a stop gap until Vista is released. There hasn't been a huge migration to it, and hardware manufacturers aren't exactly busting out drivers for it.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Actually I should get a bunch of my old programs I used when I had money and sell them but then I wouldn't have anything to play with. I still have photo impact 5 and in the meantime I have worked my way up to photo impact 10. I think I have every version except 6. I have adode photoshop 6 and I have never even liked the program. I have windows 98, ME, 2000, XP, and X64. 

I have motherboards sitting here that have never been used including a still in the box k8v deluxe that I'll never use. I have processors, ram, video cards, power supplies, sound cards etc that I'll never use. I don't use ebay or this crap would have been long gone. Instead I keep it sitting here getting more and more outdated, like the old socket A 1000 mhz Athlon. It is no good anymore really. The 2400+ is going to be worthless soon also. 

It just seems like a terrible waste to me.  Oh well, the way life is going I might need some of those parts.  Never can tell.LOL :up: I call it my stash, as long as I have my stash I'll always have a computer.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

LOL!...Skivvy....I know the dilema .....I love going to auctions and bringing worthless stuff home. Eventually....they become like family...some cool...some worthless ....but it's my duty to keep a roof over their heads


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I had 95a on my old IBM PC. It was on a 999 MB C: drive partition that had 678 or some like that MB's use from the install of everything.

Hey Skivvywaver I got PhotoImpact version 6,7 and 8. Using 8 now. 
But I wonder if I should get PhotoImpact Pro after seeing PhotoImpact 8XL vs. http://pircnet.com/pixl-vs-pro/

http://www.novadevelopment.com/Products/us/upw/default.aspx

But then again I can get lots of deals from Ulead too and get upgrade prices so pay less.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I added two more virus scanners to my list.
AntiVir9x which wasn't listed for 95, but runs without any obvious errors.....
And NOD32, which is supported in 95, however, it did complain about not being able to open and check the swap file and about 20 or so file in adaware that need a password to open. (Not worried about that)

I run them in Safe Mode, only. No threats to report 


There seems to be more security apps available for 95 than I first realized.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Then I think there are post here Stoner where people with 95 could not update some software like Spyware Blaster etc. But they could uninstall and then get the new install by just coping the folder from 98 or XP and it works.

Hard to say all the software we have on are PC's that may work if we can copy the files.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Just updated Firefox to version 1.5 this morning.
Didn't work out too well..........Perhaps version 1.0x is the end of the Mozilla line for win95. 
FF1.5 loaded slower, rendered Google much slower than version 1.0.7 and was incompatible with the previous extensions and would not update NoScript and claimed there was no update version of RIP that was compatable. When trying to close FF, it locked up.
So...I'm back to version 1.0.7


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Don't you hate that.


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## gyrgrls (Nov 22, 2004)

> I am however starting to think x64 is the new windows ME, a stop gap
> until Vista is released. There hasn't been a huge migration to it, and hardware
> manufacturers aren't exactly busting out drivers for it.


I wouldn't say that x64 is the ME of NT OS'es. Look at Windows 2000.
Before about SP2, it was quite useless for gaming, but I use it with SP4, 
and it works fine. Yeah, I do get a few STOP: errors, mainly 0x0A, but 
that's due more to marginal RAM and clunky drivers, than anything else.

Don't forget, Vista will come out in at least 7 (seven) flavors, 
right off the bat. Just more confusion for the average consumer, 
if you ask me.


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## 2226Ocean (Nov 20, 2005)

I've enjoyed reading your experiments with older computers and Windows 95. I've been using Windows 95 on a 233 MB Pentium II since 1996. Over the years I've made some changes. I added a card to update the bios which changed the LBA allowing me to use large Hard Drives. It is running two (2) 120 GB Western Digital 7200Rpm drives. Each drive has four 30GB giving me eight (8) partitions. I've also added some memory 512MB of RAM. I added an Ethernet card which I use for networking instead of USB since Windows 95 has limited USB support. There is over 1000s apps installed on it and I've saved all the installation exe and zip files over the years. Some of the apps don't run on my XP computer and I wound hate to give up using them. I've also added a dvd rw combo optical drive and BHA B's Gold and B's Clip softwave which fully supports UDF format, very convenient. My security come as follows: each drive has it's own operating system Win95. By changing the boot drive in my BIOS I can start up on either drive. The two HD drives are identical. If one has a problem I can copy individual files or even a partition from one drive to another. Each C drive has 2 copies of Windows the other I call Windy. I created a .BAT file so I can switch their file name easily at a command prompt in DOS. If there is a problem with Windows I just use the other one, and I can syncronize or copy anything on one drive when I am booted up on the other. I also use sycback to store zips of all the exe, com, scr, bat all executable files on cd or dvd. It has the ability to us a checksum and replace any file that has changed. I've tested it by changing one file with a hex editor. I only changed one bit from a 0 to a 1, and it rewrote the file. What virus can beat that. I guess I should start collecting some older computers just in case my hardware fails.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

:up:

Good to hear there are still users getting their monies worth out of their investment. 
Interesting setup you have. Sounds well thought out.
I normally use a drive image as my safety net. 
Haven't had to use it yet on the 95 machine. I'm posting right now from a 98se box as I needed to use my usb scanner this evening.
I'll probably go another couple weeks, do a securtiy scan, and revert the comp back to a Linux box  .

I have made a drive image on cd so I can revert back to 95 in the future just for kicks


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I've had this win95 computer on line now for 5 weeks and used it almost exclusively during that time for Internet usage, with only a few rare times when it was more convenient to have access to USB peripherals.
Many member see me post frequently at TSG, but I also use the Internet for news and financial information quite often, too.
While 5 weeks may not seem like a fair test for what I've been doing, I have spent a lot of time online and using this comp.

I chose Abiword as a word processor.
That worked out very nicely for me.
Spread32 was good for some simple spread sheets I needed to make.
I found plenty of anti virus apps and relied on Firefox's extensions for added browser security. And I am behind a firewall router that also helps enormously, IMHO.
I chose not to bother with IE as the last version to run on the 95 platform was IE5.5 . Same with the IE based Avant browser. FF works well, why settle for less 

I ran all the av and trojan apps previously mentioned, this morning. No problems. One MRU in Adaware, but it was not a threat. 
Nod32 threw complaints again, for about 20 password restricted files in Adaware and Spybot folders and complained about not being able to read the swap file....although with the amount of memory (192mb), I never saw Windows make a swap file.

I ran Hijackthis. Nothing there that I can see threatening.


Win95 would be a very suitable OS for what I do online, if it just had USB.

Well, this was just an unscientific test to see how 95 would hold up for me.
I think it did very well.
No BSODs since first trying to get Adaware to run in regular Windows.
Most of the software I installed I have known and used for some time without conflicts and this computer is an Intel CPU on an Intel motherboard with integrated sound and video, so I suspect there were fewer potential conflicts to deal with, there.

I'm about to go back to using this machine as a Linux box. I never intended to stay with 95....just curious about all the claims of it's durability 
For what I intended, It worked very well,IMO.

To those that have been using Win95 with success and does all you need...:up:_:up:_:up:


I have an older Toshiba CDT410 with Win95 on it. If I ever find a cheap PCMCIA ethernet card, I might just post to this thread for the Hell of it 



smilin' Jack.


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## ekim68 (Jul 8, 2003)

Thank you so much for this conversation, Stoner....
It's been a great read, and adventure...I thought, however,
that the 4th update, or version, of Win95 corrected the USB thing...


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

ekim68 said:


> Thank you so much for this conversation, Stoner....
> It's been a great read, and adventure...I thought, however,
> that the 4th update, or version, of Win95 corrected the USB thing...


Thanks ...was interesting to go back and see what I just missed in my computing experiences.

USB was listed in the Device Manager. But the coverage is so minimal,none of the USB peripherals I use were supported. I tried hooking up my flash drives, scanner, an IDE to USB converter and card reader, but the drivers wouldn't instal. There was the common 'complaint' that the drivers weren't compatible with the OS. I think usb printers might work, but I'm still using an old HP parallel port printer.

Here is some information on the issue:
http://www.usbman.com/Win95 USB Guide.htm


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea very limited USB on the 95 and only some version. I have 95a so it would not work at all.

Hey Stoner what about Firewire? Can you put a card in the 95 PC and then it would work on everything that you have as long as you can hook up to it.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi hewee 



> Hey Stoner what about Firewire?


I took a look at the firewire cards for sale over at Newegg. The furthest back they went, seemed to be for a few win98s and the rest win98se and newer.
Kinda doubt they will work in win95.
As I have no firewire equipment, it's a rather expensive experiment 

Anyway, I've already wiped 95 off the harddrive  ( But I did save a drive image for future use  )


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I did not know that. Was thinking it was like SCSI card.

I see the firewire 800 on some PC's and yes the Mac's too and they are super fast. 

Hey great you can always go back to playing with 95 the easy way now.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I'll bet 95 screams on a P4 2.8 huh?  

May have to test it again.

Interesting shots Jack.

You guys sound worse than me, I have a couple of closets full of crap, err, I mean valuable computer antiques


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## Anon23 (Mar 18, 2005)

> Anyone have a install set of floppies for win3.1.......LOL!....(j/k)


I have a copy!!  (no jk)


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