# PC or Mac?



## holymoly (Jun 21, 2003)

Yes, I did google this and I have not gotten a real answer on this one.

I need a new PC or Mac, and having used PC till now I've noticed the last several years 
have been nothing buta losing battle with spyware, viruses, trojans and all other infectious diseases. This despite being proactive with all the "anti" tools.

At least someone can guide me to a proper site to make an informed decision.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

Well a Macintosh computer *IS* a PC and anyone that tells you otherwise is an idiot.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

Correct, but in everyday usage, a PC is a Windows based machine and a Mac is a Apple OsX based machine. I guess that means there are millions of idiots out there.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> I guess that means there are millions of idiots out there.


YES. I would not hesitate for a second to call millions of people idiots. For every smart person born, a thousand morons are born.


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## ibook32 (Sep 8, 2008)

linskyjack said:


> I guess that means there are millions of idiots out there.


 Even Apple and Microsoft. "I'm a PC" "And I'm a mac". Remember that?

Anyway, I would think that a mac would be better, but interface-wise, Vista (gasp) would be better.Yes, there are still exploits in a mac, but Software Update (Apple's Updating program) will fix those most likely. Windows PC's have viruses and malware, but Mac has a different interface. If you want a familiar interface, mac doesn't have it (or at least not version 10.2, which I have, 10.3 or 10.4, which my friend has). Mac is built off of Unix, so there's a good part. Windows also has the majority of programs, to my belief. You can correct me on that if I am wrong. If you could care less about a new interface, and money's not an issue, go ahead and get a mac. Obviously, though, you are going to pay the same amount of money in the long run for MS Office ($70/yr with Equipt, which has antivirus with it, and I have, or probably $299 forever), Windows (somewhere in the hundreds), and a new PC(My last one -- $300), and the hardware upgrades you buy for it (some are expensive, some aren't).

So, it's mostly the way you look at it.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

Yes, obviously namenotfound doesn't. Talk about arrogance.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> Yes, obviously namenotfound doesn't. Talk about arrogance.


Because I don't blindly follow stupid ideas. Apple's "Mac vs. PC" commercials are moronic, and so are Microsoft's "I'm a PC" commercials.

The fact is, Mac *IS* a PC. It's not being arrogant, it's being correct. Everyone who insists that Mac isn't a PC are stupid, plain and simple.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

Genius, no one is insisting that a Mac isn't a PC. We are merely pointing out that most people define the difference between a Mac and a Windows Based machine that way. Whether or not it is literally correct or not isn't the issue. Your inability to think abstractly seems to be the problem.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

It's like calling a banana an orange, and saying "well I know it's a banana but this is how I define the difference between a east coast bananas and west coast bananas"

People need to learn how to define differences better.


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## patwardo (Aug 30, 2006)

If your fed up with viruses and all that crap, then yes get a Mac.
Whatever the add says, they don't "just work" all of the time. 

There are problems from time to time but not nearly as much as on a windows computer. Have used windows for a long time from 3.1 to XP and having used Mac for the last 3 or 4 years I think they are more stable, more secure and easier to use.

The downside with apple is that they still cost more but the time saved on troubleshooting / pulling your hair out makes it worth it.

Another option is to get cheap computer and put linux ubunto on it.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Ever since Vista came out ... the Mac display at the local retailers is getting bigger ..
and the PCs are moving to the back wall.
Does this say something I wonder ??


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

*What has this forum turned into?*

You start this thread by bringing out a worthless argument unassociated with the originator's question which happens to contradict the rest of the world's beliefs and then, in the fourth response, someone offers a half-assed response to the question which is followed by more conversation of this unproductive argument.

And no one even asked holymoly what he needed a new computer for, the ultimate deciding factor in many cases.


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## XanderB (Oct 7, 2008)

Holy, to answer your question in a simplified way :

*Macs*

*Pros :* 
Easy to configure and use.
Solid and stable OS that is not *heavily* targeted by virus writers.
*Cons :*
Expensive. Be prepared to pay more for the same hardware you would find in a top-end PC.
Geared more to casual users rather then power users.
Does not have the same robust software support as Windows XP.

*PC's* (With Windows XP)

*Pros : *
Highly configurable and stable OS. 
Supports the majority of all software.
Significantly cheaper then Macs.
Geared towards casual and power users.
*Cons :*
Most targeted by virus and malware programmers.
Requires an IQ of over 70 to use.

Hope this helps Holy!
​


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

OS X is great for power users: AppleScript and Automator. :up:

*Holymoly, what do you need this new machine for?*


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Yeah, not to mention the entire music industry, art industry, printing and much of the film production industry. 

But those aren't "power" users. They're just artists. Nobody listens to music, looks at art, magazines, or movies. 

:shrug:


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

XanderB said:


> Holy, to answer your question in a simplified way :
> *Macs*
> *Cons :*
> Geared more to casual users rather then power users.


If you think that is true, then you obviously never used a Mac before. It couldn't be farther from the truth. Mac is for power users as well as casual users. Mac has more powerful software than Windows does, such as Final Cut Pro. Compare that to any video editing software made BY Microsoft for Windows.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

First of all, Microsoft isn't in the video editing software. There are plenty of alternatives to FCP that are just as powerful. Avid, Vegas Video, Premiere Pro, etc. By the way, the majority of features are still edited and confirmed on Windows based systems. FCP has made inroads.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> First of all, Microsoft isn't in the video editing software. There are plenty of alternatives to FCP that are just as powerful. Avid, Vegas Video, Premiere Pro, etc. By the way, the majority of features are still edited and confirmed on Windows based systems. FCP has made inroads.


Microsoft made "Windows Movie Maker", so that puts them in the video editing software. Once you make a product for a certain use, you're IN that product.

So compare Windows Movie Maker to iMovie. One comes with Windows made by the company that created Windows (Microsoft), and the other comes with Mac OS made by the company that created Mac OS (Apple).


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

namenotfound said:


> Microsoft made "Windows Movie Maker", so that puts them in the video editing software. Once you make a product for a certain use, you're IN that product.
> 
> So compare Windows Movie Maker to iMovie. One comes with Windows made by the company that created Windows (Microsoft), and the other comes with Mac OS made by the company that created Mac OS (Apple).


Thats not an NLE, thats a quirky toy. IMovie is far superior to Windows Movie Maker.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

linskyjack said:


> Thats not an NLE, thats a quirky toy. IMovie is far superior to Windows Movie Maker.


I was about to do nonlinear editing with Windows Movie Maker before, you just have to be creative. Just like how you can use Paint to make something that looked like it was made in Photoshop (I bet most people don't realize this), you just need to be creative 

If I can do it, then you can do it, and thus others can do it, making Windows Movie Maker capable of being NLE.

And yes, iMovie is better. So how can anyone say that Apple doesn't make computers built for power users? That's just silly. Of course they do!


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## max-man100 (Aug 13, 2008)

namenotfound said:


> Because I don't blindly follow stupid ideas. Apple's "Mac vs. PC" commercials are moronic, and so are Microsoft's "I'm a PC" commercials.
> 
> The fact is, Mac *IS* a PC. It's not being arrogant, it's being correct. Everyone who insists that Mac isn't a PC are stupid, plain and simple.


PC stands for personal computer and a mac is kind of a personal computer but you know, a mac is a mac and a pc is a pc they have their different ways........

But anyway, I used to have a PC and I hated it because it froze all the time and then I bought a mac 2 years ago and it is still running absolutely flawlessly and I am thinking of installing vista on to it. THE PRICE IS DEFINATELY WORTH IT!!!!!!!!


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

*ANY* computer that qualifies as a PC is a PC.

To qualify as a PC, the following three conditions must be met:

1, small enough to fit inside your home.
2, affordable enough for the general public to buy.
3, easy enough for the average population to use.

A Macintosh computer is a PC.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

If the computer is going to be your only machine then go with windows.
Greatest range of software
Alot more affordable than a mac.
There are times when you have to have windows--because what you want is unavailable for a mac.

Get a mac if you:
Have lots of money and already have windows.
Will be using some of the Apple applications professionally.
There are some awesome applications available geared towards the professional.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

brett888 said:


> If the computer is going to be your only machine then go with windows.
> Greatest range of software
> Alot more affordable than a mac.
> There are times when you have to have windows--because what you want is unavailable for a mac.


Your premise is flawed from the start, but assuming, arguendo, that you're correct, all Macs made in the past couple years can run Windows natively.

Ergo, your first point goes out the window. Your second point is wholly incorrect. Your third point is inaccurate, when oranges are compared to oranges. Your fourth point is made moot by the first sentence in this reply.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

VegasACF said:


> Your premise is flawed from the start, but assuming, arguendo, that you're correct, all Macs made in the past couple years can run Windows natively.
> 
> Ergo, your first point goes out the window. Your second point is wholly incorrect. Your third point is inaccurate, when oranges are compared to oranges. Your fourth point is made moot by the first sentence in this reply.


 You would have to buy windows after you bought your mac to do that
it goes to show that sometimes you need windows when you have a mac


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

VegasACF said:


> Your premise is flawed from the start, but assuming, arguendo, that you're correct, all Macs made in the past couple years can run Windows natively.
> 
> Ergo, your first point goes out the window. Your second point is wholly incorrect. Your third point is inaccurate, when oranges are compared to oranges. Your fourth point is made moot by the first sentence in this reply.


What does this have to do with what brett888 said?

Your posts makes no sense.


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## mark069 (Oct 25, 2008)

I too am deciding between a purchase of a Mac or a PC (by "PC" I mean a windows based home computer as NEARLY everyone understands this term to mean).

I have found most PC's configured with Vista which I don't like at all. I've inquired about downgrading to XP but the feedback I got was that they will do it but they don't recommend it because the hardware was designed for Vista and that XP drivers may not work. My IT person said this was BS and that they are trying to scare you into sticking with Vista.

Macs look like a much better option to me but they are more expensive... The other thing I really like about the new Macs is their home theater capabilities. The Mac mini is due for a major upgrade in January and it could offer functionality close to what Apple TV already does...


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Fact some hardware does not have xp drivers available
regardless of what your IT said.

Macs are very high as you described.
To justify the cost you would need to be serious with your computing needs.

As far as vista is concerned the reason that most are unhappy is due to the fact that --things have changed--you have to take a differant route to find what you are used to.

Everyone likes familiar.
Arent you very upset when your settings get changed?
It is the same effect with vista.
As long as you have decent hardware then you will have a good experiance,if given time to utilize the changes to the user benefit.

Buying a mac will bring you a very unfamiliar envirement causing you more frustration that you are having with vista.

Moving to mac is a major move.

Tons of software is available for windows
Software is limited for a mac.

To justify moving to a mac would in order to take advantage of some of thier professional applications.

Mac is a great machine,but it is not for everyone.

They are sweet is the best desription.
But as we all know sweet is for after dinner,

Windows is the meat and potatoes.


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## cam-3498 (Apr 20, 2008)

You can buy a PC and then convert it into a mac online


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

cam-3498 said:


> You can buy a PC and then convert it into a mac online


 That does not work with all hardware combinations.
If the poster is is deciding as to mac or windows,then probably doesnt have the know-how to get the software installed on a generic pc

It is all against apple license agreement.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

cam-3498 said:


> You can buy a PC and then convert it into a mac online


That makes absolutely no sense at all...

"PC" is a general term, and "Mac" is hardware (how you gonna convert that online?)

Mac = Hardware
Mac OS = Software


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

namenotfound said:


> That makes absolutely no sense at all...
> 
> "PC" is a general term, and "Mac" is hardware (how you gonna convert that online?)
> 
> ...


Yes, yes. A point that has been made, ad nauseam, on this board, even by myself. And yet people still insist on using this nomenclature (those people include Apple and Microsoft, even). I can only suggest getting over it. It's quite clear what is meant, even if it is incorrectly stated, and you are only going to succeed in beating your head against the wall.



namenotfound said:


> What does this have to do with what brett888 said?
> 
> Your posts makes no sense.


I'll take it more slowly for you, then:



brett888 said:


> If the computer is going to be your only machine then go with windows.


By this, brett888 meant, "get a Windows-based PC." (see above narrative on popular nomenclature) As previously mentioned, all Macs made in the last couple years will run Windows natively. Therefore, purchasing a Windows-based PC will needlessly eliminate the entire Mac software market from use on this computer.



brett888 said:


> Greatest range of software


Since Macs can run Windows natively it is plainly obvious that Macs have the greatest range of software: Everything from the Windows side of the aisle _plus_ everything from the Mac OS side of the aisle.



brett888 said:


> Alot more affordable than a mac.


If the quality of a base-model Mac is compared with a Windows-based PC made of similar quality parts and workmanship there is little, if any price difference. Therefore, "alot [sic] more affordable," is completely inaccurate.

Many also go beyond simple sticker price definitions in defining affordability, however this is a more subjective topic, so it will be omitted from this response.



brett888 said:


> There are times when you have to have windows--because what you want is unavailable for a mac.


You probably see where I'm going with this having read the previous, but, just in case, I'll spell it out again. Every Mac made in the last couple years is capable of running Windows. Therefore _everything_ available for Windows _is_ available for a Mac.

I know plenty of people from across the entire spectrum of user-level who use Macs. The notion that Macs are only useful for "power users" who are using very specific software is balderdash.

Yes, it is true that one must purchase (or otherwise legally acquire) a copy of Windows to take advantage of that. But I know of dealers who are bundling both the Mac OS and Windows with the Macs they are selling, and for not much of a markup whatsoever.

I hope this proves useful in deciphering the meaning of my previous post.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

cam-3498 said:


> You can buy a PC and then convert it into a mac online





VegasACF said:


> Yes, yes. A point that has been made, ad nauseam, on this board, even by myself. And yet people still insist on using this nomenclature (those people include Apple and Microsoft, even). I can only suggest getting over it. It's quite clear what is meant, even if it is incorrectly stated, and you are only going to succeed in beating your head against the wall.
> 
> I'll take it more slowly for you, then:
> 
> ...


I just left the apple website.My findings are no differant than from in the past.

Mac and Money,things have not changed.
The least exspensive i-mac is 1200 bucks that is with a gig of ram.
another 75 to add another gig 
1275 bucks.
This price does not include any additional software.
additional software is 79 to 199 per application.
I am sure that when we recieved a mac we would like some software.
cost 300
running total 1575.
Now we still need windows from time to time.
Apple is aware of this as well so they made it easy.Vista 200 bucks
running total 1775

Where I come from 1775 will buy a lot of desktop
A very nice desktop with hardware that would impress anyone.

And with this desktop,hardware upgrades in the future are easy and at a much lower cost that an apple.

The same holds true for the notebooks.
For instance I am typing on a dell notebook from best buy 499 bucks.
15.4 inch - 2 gigs- dual core intel -sata harddrive - dvd writer- blah blah blah.

The applications available for my windows machine out numbers apple software 1000 to 1

Advantage *Windows*  by a landslide


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

brett888 said:


> snip


Here's a page listing all the software that comes pre-loaded on _any_ iMac: www.apple.com/imac/software/. You're either not very thorough a researcher, or not very honest a researcher.

Personally, I'd rather purchase a Mac mini for $599 than your Dell notebook _any_ day of the week. Oh, and by the way... It comes with all the same software preloaded.

Go figure. Once you throw in Open Office for the low, low price of _free_, you've got more software than _most_ people need for _no additional cost_.

Putting all that aside, in what strange dimension do you live in where a computer that can run anything on the Windows side of the aisle _plus_ anything on the Mac side of the aisle equates to being able to run _less_ software than a computer which can only run software from the Windows side? It just doesn't make sense. Around here adding two positive numbers results in a _larger_ positive number.

Oh well, I'm sure whatever alternate reality you're living in is a lovely one, so long as you keep those blinders on.

Have a nice day.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

VegasACF said:


> Here's a page listing all the software that comes pre-loaded on _any_ iMac: www.apple.com/imac/software/. You're either not very thorough a researcher, or not very honest a researcher.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather purchase a Mac mini for $599 than your Dell notebook _any_ day of the week. Oh, and by the way... It comes with all the same software preloaded.
> 
> ...


well lets start math class shall we
school is in session

I just went back to apple store online .
Fact: price of notebook with same specs as my 500 dell is 2105 bucks
then when you buy vista and pay tax thats 2500 bucks
Thats alot of green

for 2500 i can buy a killer laptop that no mac can ever touch

The Mac note books are nice i have to admit though,but about 800 dollars worth of nice

next
I just built a mini mac with dvd writer ,monitor keyboard 2 gigs ram
and modem
total 1600 bucks add windows now 1850 --
it is worth about 450

Once again where I come from I could build the hottest desktop for them bucks.

next
The mini
with dvd writer
and 2 gigs
923 bucks
its worth 300 in reality
once again
i can build a very powerful rig with that money
hey need windows still so now its 1100 to 1200 bucks

I like the mac operating systen dont get me wrong
but i am not letting the apple people #$%# me with paying an outragous price for lower than standard hardware!

*WINNER WINDOWS ---Simple*


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Here is a mini mac and then one very hot smoking rig for the same money both from the same place.
Can we say Advantage Windows
How bout this

Check out this NICE HP

Wow look at dells mini


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

brett888 said:


> Once again where I come from I could build the hottest desktop for them bucks.


Ah, I think we've finally hit on something.

If computers were cars you'd rather have this:










While _I'd_ rather have _this_:










Mystery solved.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

VegasACF said:


> Ah, I think we've finally hit on something.
> 
> If computers were cars you'd rather have this:
> 
> ...


Now if it just come in green..............


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

vegas:
Mac is a great os
With mac there is far far less problems with infections
Mac has some great applications available
these are high end and aimed for the professional
the everyday user will not use them for the most part
as far as being able to run vista with a mac --you still have to buy your own vista---and that can be high
mac nails you with the cost of the hardware
There is alot of competition with manufactures for windows so it is very affordable.
To me a mac is considered a luxery while windows would be a necessity,
Which would I rather have under the tree on xmas?yes a mac
i already have windows.
I use ubuntu if i have to do some dangerous surfing or need a specialized application.
yes i have to hunt and dig and work the bugs out of it.
If i were to buy a mac it would be to take advantage of one thier professional applications.
my user style does not have that need.
In my opinion apple should be where windows is right now,but they arent.
Apple made great strides in technology in the early days.
If it were not for apple,then windows not be where it is today.
It was just timing and windows approach,it was a gamble but it worked.
Windows was made easy,and with that it made itself open target for many infections.
Apple is far superior in this area that goes without saying.
In reality it is a better operating sysytem.
However there is not the abundance of software available as for windows.
With apple and its license to only install on apple equipment,there is no competition
therefore you have to pay a nice price for a mac.
This is why apple does not have as large a share in the world as windows does.
If apple were to lower its price then a larger share would follow fast,
with this we would get tons of new software available just as windows.
With this we would have people slipping trojans in the software just as is done with the windows software.
So therefore one can not win either way.
You either have to takes windows and have to use caution all the time and have all the software you could imagine,or take an apple have a more limmited selection but better software.
Windows has stole a few ideas from apple,and apple doesnt want anything to resemble windows at all.
The competition with the 2 has only brought improovements in both.
When apple decides to lower the price or let pc manufactures sell the apple os preinstalled.
I will be the first one to purchase one when this happens,as the software vendors would also follow.


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

brett888 said:


> Here is a mini mac and then one very hot smoking rig for the same money both from the same place.
> Can we say Advantage Windows
> How bout this
> 
> ...


What you totally miss is the target market each computer is trying to reach.

Whether we like it or not, Apple isn't targeting the "hardcore" group who want to be able to upgrade components like video cards etc. They are targeting people who just want a computer that does the task they need and is simple. Upgrading beyond USB type devices is unlikely and the included hardware features are likely fine for many years of service. So the form factor of a machine like a mini is better for sitting on a kitchen counter for example. Is the Dell 530 slimline really the same? Those are the type of features that are usually missed in these price comparisons.

So a better comparison would be the Dell Studio Hybrid: See attachment

I'm not saying Apple computers couldn't be cheaper, but many of these comparisons don't account for some of "unique" qualities of SOME Apple computers.

(Speaking as someone who sold a Quad Core XPS 420 with Geforce 768MB 8800GTX and running OS X, for a 24" aluminum iMac and not regretting it.  )


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Headrush
the dell i made wasnt meant to be a mini it was just to show what 664 bucks can get with another brand.I like the one i made better tahn you made
mine is as follows
intel duo processor 3 ghz 1333 fsb
64 bit vista
6 gigs ddr2 800 ram
320 gig sata drive
16 x dvd
256 video card
7 channel audio
keboard and mouse
19 in card reader

This is a very respectable rig 

sure its not a mac but this is 665 bucks of good hardware


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

brett888 said:


> Headrush
> the dell i made wasnt meant to be a mini it was just to show what 664 bucks can get with another brand.I like the one i made better tahn you made
> 
> sure its not a mac but this is 665 bucks of good hardware


You're missing the point. You can't just take the price of a mini and say I can buy this package of hardware which is better for the same price. It's not a fair comparison. Find me that hardware in the same form factor as a mini at that price.

No one would argue that you can't buy better hardware for the same amount, that's beside the point. For *you* the money is better spent on a bigger design with higher specs, for many people the form factor is more important.

Straight up $$$ comparisons fail to assign any value to these kinds of features which matter to some people.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I have seen some minis before 
would just have to look on the net

they generally are not high

when you jump to the full tower with a mac
we are talking very serious money
and this where apple offers the serious hardware

but to get the lowest mac pro the get 8 gigs of ram is 3800

the same hardware is about a grand to 1200 with some shopping on a windows based machine.

it is where apple gets you is the hardware.

notebooks are the same

as far as the mini it is just an most affordable way to get started with a mac and a person still has 900 wrapped up in it


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

brett888 said:


> I have seen some minis before
> would just have to look on the net
> 
> they generally are not high


I'd be interested in seeing some prebuilt miniITX's with the same specs for a remarkably cheaper price.



brett888 said:


> when you jump to the full tower with a mac
> we are talking very serious money
> and this where apple offers the serious hardware
> 
> but to get the lowest mac pro the get 8 gigs of ram is 3800


Like I mentioned but has seemed to have gone misunderstood is it's all about market.
Apple has designed their models to match their targeted audiences. For the most part the Mac Pro is NOT for your average home user. For most people it is far beyond the capabilities they require. Is it overpriced based on hardware, sure is, but for the audience they are after the combination of OS X and a Mac Pro it is worth it. They are pricing to what this target market will pay, and why shouldn't they. This happens in all kinds of non-computer markets.

Of course Apple leverages hardware sales/prices using OS X. It's all about what the market is willing to pay for the features of OS X on Apple hardware. (The only legal method.)

It's not just about specs and cost. 
You keep giving examples of similar hardware specs that are priced differently and no one is arguing that isn't true, but I'm saying that is often only a fraction in the decision process.

For you price and specs are important and hence a Windows based PC appears to have the advantage. There is nothing wrong with that but not everyone evaluates everything to just those features so it's not an absolute and even at a higher price the Mac can have the advantage for others. 

So you have to see what is important for each person. The original poster mentioned:


> I need a new PC or Mac, and having used PC till now I've noticed the last several years
> have been nothing buta losing battle with spyware, viruses, trojans and all other infectious diseases. This despite being proactive with all the "anti" tools.


So obviously this is something that might have great value to this person which would never be quantified in $$$ by your comparison and even you mentioned this as a OS X advantage.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

headrush
I would have no problem paying 600 bucks for leopard
to me it would be worth it if i could legally run it on hardware of choice.
to me it is the issue that i have in choice of setups
To have a tower i have to go with mac pro.
and yes if i run into big bucks thats what i would get then put windows on it too for when the need arose.

i can set me up the mini for less than a grand
i have often considered this
what has stopped me is i cant use the disk later unless its a mac
so an upgrade would be an imac or pro
at a large jump in price
it is the hardware strangle hold that apples uses is what keeps a large percentage of windows users with windows
maybe we are tight wads lol


like i say i would have no trouble paying 600 for a disk
if i had the option to use it where i wanted with a custom rig

If apple stopped the hardware stranglehold or lowered thier price
tons of software would be right behind

this would increase the apple windows war even more forceing both to keep improving the versions at even a faster pace than now


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

brett888 said:


> headrush
> I would have no problem paying 600 bucks for leopard
> to me it would be worth it if i could legally run it on hardware of choice.


I'm sure many people would agree with this but it's not likely to happen anytime soon.
(Especially with Mac user base increasing.)



brett888 said:


> to me it is the issue that i have in choice of setups.


Blame Apple, if their models don't fit for you, you aren't their target audience.



brett888 said:


> i can set me up the mini for less than a grand
> i have often considered this
> what has stopped me is i cant use the disk later unless its a mac


I assume you mean without formatting. I would hope you aren't swapping installed Windows versions between different motherboards on "PC" hardware either.



brett888 said:


> it is the hardware strangle hold that apples uses is what keeps a large percentage of windows users with windows
> maybe we are tight wads lol


Not necessarily you but I believe to a large degree this is often true.
People arguing over minimal $$$ amounts (even though specs AREN'T exact) or putting too much emphasis on marginal hardware differences. (Is 2.5GHz really noticeably faster than 2.4GHz?)



brett888 said:


> like i say i would have no trouble paying 600 for a disk
> if i had the option to use it where i wanted with a custom rig
> 
> If apple stopped the hardware stranglehold or lowered thier price
> ...


Not going to happen.
Along with increased $$$ from OS X sales, there is also a loss in hardware sales, much more hardware support costs, and probably a hit to their media division too. (ipod, iphone etc) And lets be honest, if OS X was available for "PC" hardware we know piracy would be rampant.

Not because of any problem with OS X, but Apple would NOT be able to compete with Microsoft just selling OS X. (At least not with the current market share of Windows)

But this is far from the original topic, so I guess we better not go down that road.
Have a good night. 

P.S. Clearly not as many variations as on Windows but I think you are under estimating the breath of software available on OS X for pretty much most tasks found on Windows.


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## namenotfound (Apr 30, 2005)

People that say Apple should let you use Mac OS X for non-apple computer are forgetting one very important detail. Apple is *NOT* a software company. They're a hardware company and Mac OS X is just because "well we need something to run our hardware, we need some sort of operating system"

Microsoft sells software, they couldn't care less which hardware you run it on.

Why do you think Apple would just allow you to run Mac OS X on a non-apple computer? That would just be stupid for Apple to do.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

do they have refurbished minis anywhere and how much do they go for
they are cool got to admit that


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

brett888 said:


> do they have refurbished minis anywhere and how much do they go for
> they are cool got to admit that


Yes, go to your country's Apple store and look at the bottom of page for the Refurbished icon/link..

*Edit: *Looks like they are sold out of Minis in US and Canada.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

When considering the "high" relative price of Macs when comparing prices to PCs running Windows or Linux, we have to consider what comes with the Mac. Let's look at the Mac-mini discussion on the previous page and above as an example. For $599, the Mac-mini comes with the specs already mentioned *and* includes *Wi-Fi* _and_ *Bluetooth* support, something most desktops don't support without add-on components. Part of the "high" cost of Macs is the fact they come bundled with a TON of stuff, whether you want it or not. The Dell Studio Hybrid (which has a form factor as close to the Mac-mini as you're gonna get from Dell) has a base price of $449. It's got more RAM, a larger HDD, and a faster processor. It has a HDMI output and it also comes with Windows Vista, which sort of negates the "more RAM" and "faster processor" advantages. (just joking  )

At $599, the base Mac-mini has a slower processor, less RAM, and a smaller HDD but it also has:

VGA video output (using included adapter) to support analog resolutions up to 1920 by 1080 pixels (the Dell does NOT support VGA)
Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (based on 802.11g standard)3
Built-in Bluetooth 2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate (EDR) up to 3 Mbps
Combined optical digital audio input/audio line in (minijack)
You might not use all those things but the VGA support allows me to use my "old" CRT monitor still or even an old LCD display that only supports VGA (I don't need to replace my old monitor, if I don't want).

Now, my point isn't that the Mac-mini is a "better" machine than the Dell Studio Hybrid since "better" is a subjective term. However, the Mac-mini does come with things of value and usability that the Dell Studio doesn't. I have a Nokia Bluetooth enabled phone with I can connect with a "stock" Mac-mini. I can connect a "stock" Mac-mini with a Wi-Fi network. and so on. It's clear Apple tries to make the Mac a "complete package" machine and the result is people will pay a bit more for it.

The additional amount Apple wants people to pay is debatable but you're not simply paying more for "nothing".

Peace...


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## Moe13_14 (Nov 2, 2007)

Windows


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## Diver--13 (Jan 5, 2008)

To add on to what XanderB has said

Mac systems can run Windows programs (*.exe*) with the help of these programs ↓
You could try bochs
http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
or vmware
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/in...
or WINE
http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX

Or you can even install a whole Windows based system with "Parallels" -- http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/ -- for only $79.99

Windows on the other hand

I would stay away from any computer with Vista for the time being so that Microsoft can fully work out it's major "kinks"
If you do go with a Windows system I would suggest at least a dual-core processor with Vista Home Premium or better (Ultimate or Buisness)
But that all depends on what you plan on using it for
I'm a power hog and an AMD dual core processor works just fine for me


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## Diabloeas (Dec 24, 2008)

I decided to go with a macbook a few months ago and am very pleased. Yes it is more expensive and there is much more software for Windoze. I bought a Macbook 4gig ram, 250gig hd. I also bought parallels and run xp, 2003 server and Ubuntu in the Parallels. It runs like a dream.

One thing i did is to boot both my MacBook and my Sony Viao(XP) side by side. macbook took just under 60 secs and Sony around 5 minutes. To shut down the Macbook took about 30 secs and the Sony I'm still waiting 

So bottom line if you have the money go for the Macbook with Parallels.


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## linskyjack (Aug 28, 2004)

As usual, let me clarify. As a former Windows users, their is only ONE reason in my mind to go over to Mac----------The superior operating system. Anyone who claims that Windows, (XP, Vista) can hold a candle to OsX is behaving as bad as any Apple fan boy I know. Apple hardware is nothing to write home about and it is overpriced, but thats not why I am now an Apple user. 

I will gladly pay the premium in order to run OsX.


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## x I Joker I (Sep 1, 2008)

holymoly said:


> Yes, I did google this and I have not gotten a real answer on this one.
> 
> I need a new PC or Mac, and having used PC till now I've noticed the last several years
> have been nothing buta losing battle with spyware, viruses, trojans and all other infectious diseases. This despite being proactive with all the "anti" tools.
> ...


Depends what you want to do. In my opinion, if your gaming get a PC. If your free roaming the web and other cool Mac abilities, get a Mac.


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

linskyjack said:


> As usual, let me clarify. As a former Windows users, their is only ONE reason in my mind to go over to Mac----------The superior operating system. Anyone who claims that Windows, (XP, Vista) can hold a candle to OsX is behaving as bad as any Apple fan boy I know. Apple hardware is nothing to write home about and it is overpriced, but thats not why I am now an Apple user.
> 
> I will gladly pay the premium in order to run OsX.


I have to disagree. Window's unpredictability is unparalleled -- you hit the start button and you don't know what you're going to get.  A black screen? A freeze? An error message? Or maybe a good 'ol BSOD. :up:

[/sarcasm]

I agree completely with you linskyjack, except for you comments on the hardware. While it arguably is more expensive, it is quite impressive. Just look at their razor thin MacBook Air, slim all-in-one iMac, or tool-less Mac Pro. I think they're quite impressive and innovative.

Merry Christmas!


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)




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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

VegasACF said:


>


God, if you don't like this discussion don't read it. That's the great thing about the internet, you're in control.


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## carlynn (Oct 21, 2007)

I just bought my first mac recently and not in a million years would I go back to the stupit viruses, spyware and all the junk that you have to deal with. On a mac you hardly have any updates and no crap to deal with with all that microsoft stuff.

If you want to read a good article just do a search on google called " Microsoft is stupit, apple is not. It is very interesting.
Just an opionion from a new mac user, I love it.


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## GuidoMac (Feb 1, 2009)

Mac is the *only* pc! That is if pc still means "_personal_ computer"! 
Every year, mac software and ability, and popularity grows. In fact, Apple just posted their best quarter EVER, and that's in the middle of these severe economic times.

Who knows where the other guys are going to be in five years, especially since Microsoft committed corporate suicide recently(Bill Gates leaves, Vista disaster, failed takeover attempt, massive losses in their stock market, etc.).

Besides, a lot of schools are replacing their ageing computers with macs, because they can run any operating system you like, and they are great with wi-fi(the schools don't have to run more cables everywhere.).


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

GuidoMac said:


> Who knows where the other guys are going to be in five years, especially since Microsoft committed corporate suicide recently(Bill Gates leaves, Vista disaster, failed takeover attempt, massive losses in their stock market, etc.).


Do you think Microsoft won't be around in five years?

Peace...


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Microsoft has pockets they will be around for a long time.
In some countries they give away windows just so you wont use anything else.

They arent going away ....just like apple didnt....look where they{apple} are now....and well deserved i will add......I am still a windows man.....i have to give credit where it is due.....apple should have been the king with windows the little guys.....microsoft played thier cards right and it worked very well for them


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)




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## GuidoMac (Feb 1, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by GuidoMac
> Who knows where the other guys are going to be in five years, especially since Microsoft committed corporate suicide recently(Bill Gates leaves, Vista disaster, failed takeover attempt, massive losses in their stock market, etc.).
> Do you think Microsoft won't be around in five years?
> ...


Oh, they probably will, especially considering how Windows users are willing to suffer with a difficult OS, and their stubborn refusal(fear?) to change. If it were any other industry, or there were many competitors, if they were to suffer so many venturous disasters, they would be struggling for their very survival. Look at Palm, If they don't hit a home run with the Pre(which is unlikely considering looming patent infringements around their use of multi-touch), they are finished, even though a few short years ago, they were the tech leader in the industry!


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