# brand computers



## Jballou (Nov 21, 2001)

would you rather build a computer (or have somebody build it) or buy a brand name computer? which brand?


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## anglin_fool (Oct 2, 2001)

When you build your own computer, you have a better understanding of how it works. I still cannot figure out some of my friend's Gateway computers. Compac's computers are also hard to figure out.


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## Bryan (Jul 3, 1999)

Personally I build my own but if I was going to purchase one, without any doubt, I'd buy a Dell . They are much better machines than any of their competition and their PCs are pretty friendly if you get to point of wanting to upgrade it in the future. 

BTW, I wouldn't buy a Compaq or HP with anyones money let alone my own. And if I was given one, I'd sell it and buy a Dell. 

Gateways, I can take them or leave them.


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## Jballou (Nov 21, 2001)

I am building my own computer right now.
I would prefer this over buying any brand computer. I like to know exactly what's on and in my computer. Most brand computers use some of their own parts making them difficult to upgrade and interchange. The company also puts an awful lot of pointless stuff on them.


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

I had mine custom built for me but the next one I would like to build myself........ with some help from you folks here


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## Max19 (Jul 31, 2001)

Unless you're very computer literate and have tons of experience troubleshooting hardware and software problems, don't even consider building your own system.


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

Although I have had no problems from my Gateway system, except for the ones I caused playing around with it, I will most likely have my next one custom built.


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

Max, thank you for your advice but I have read many threads here where people have built their own without having


> tons of experience troubleshooting hardware and software problems


Of course you need some experience but isn't that what trying it yourself is all about. I wouldn't be going into this blind, I would make sure that I had help when I needed it.


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## Max19 (Jul 31, 2001)

If you have a lot of free time and patience and a high tolerance for frustration and you really want to learn, then go ahead. Just know what you're getting into. Forums can provide great advice and help, but there are some things that can't be solved without actually seeing what the problem is. If you don't have the experience personally, then work with someone in person who does.


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

I plan on doing it when I have a lot of free time and patience, as for a high tolerance for frustration...... life has taught me to have that.
I also have someone who can help me in person if and when I need it.


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## buck52 (Mar 9, 2001)

I bought an HP about two years ago ( which fortunately I still have had no trouble with). I played with it for a short time and decided to build one. Maybe I got lucky but...without what I considered alot of experience...I found it quite easy.
I did buy most all of the parts from a small local shop that gave me a few pointers. also because of how I use the thing a went with onboard video and sound , which I'm sure helped. 

just my 2¢

buck


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

.................Own............................................Reason................ 
1 "E" Machine for the kids.............................Inexpensive
1 "HP" For the Daughter in College..................She liked it
1 "Sony Viao" for my Wife Judy......................Intuitive, well built
1 "custom Built" For production Work..............Handles anything
1 "Mac" Collecting dust................................Limited and older

All have there place but for heavy duty work I prefer the custom Machine. There are three ways I would go when I replace the production machine. Another Custom Built to my specs, Build it myself, or get a Dell since I have heard very good things about them.

Just My Two Cents Dave


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I I was getting a name brand it would be a Dell.
Also look at the Business models there.
You can pick your OS then.

Well Windows 98SE used to be one but not now.
You can only pick these now.
Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Professional Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

I always build for many reasons: 1.) you control the quality of ALL your parts. 2.) you only have to put in what you want (and don't waste $$ on what you don't want) 3.) can have AGP video and PCI Sound (most prebuilts use onboard--yuck) 4.) it is cheaper 5.) you get a better system 6.) built to your exact needs 7.)...

Well I am sure I can go on all day. Those most of my reasons for always building. Max is right tough, if you don't know what you are doing you are in for a treat. Lisa on the other hand is also right in that you will never have experience and know what you are doing until you actually do it... that is what we at TSG are here for.  For the most part, you can get away with fairly easy jobs building your pc... you can buy barebones if you like and that way someone else does a burn in and installs the motherboard and ram, cpu ect and all you need to do is put in a HD, OS, vid card, sc, and whatever and you can get the same effect as you would with building your own. Just remember conflicts and errors installing hardware are inevitable, and even those who know what they are doing can sometimes end up pulling their hair out.  These computers sometimes do strange things and even the best of us don't understand it. For the most part, if you are comfortable without a warranty, you are better off building or having someone else build for you (custom) than you would be buying prebuilt. Name brands just can't be trusted anymore. (quality wise and such... some of them at least)

As for name brands... if you want to buy prebuilt than I recommend you try to stay between Dell, or if not Dell then Sony VIAO. No matter what steer away from Compaq and sometimes even HP... but never buy Compaq! Dell and Sony both make pretty good machines (and reasonably priced) and Dell has the best PR and tech support out there for a computer manufacture. (that is next to TSG, of course)

So to recap for those of you who fell asleep... <img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=279146>...my advice is that you have three options... build yourself, buy Dell, or buy Sony.

Hope this helps!


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Now I see deuce_mn you are talking about "Percent of PCs with problems" with name brands.
See chart here.
http://www.pcworld.com/features/article/0,aid,63363,pg,14,00.asp

But look whats new now. "Local retailers"
This is the first time that the "Reliability and Service Survey" has had "Local retailers" and I bet it will grow.

I got my new PC from a "Local retailers" and get a 3 year parts and lifetime labor warranty. Warranty only covers Hardware. I can see that they can have us call them each time we install software and have a conflict.
That's what this forum is for. I have seen message boards fix things that the paid techs can't. Remember you have more then one person to help you here but when you call a tech it just the one guy.

But here is the first page of "Reliability and Service: Service Takes a Dive"

http://www.pcworld.com/features/article/0,aid,63363,00.asp


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Humm... hadn't seen that yet. Hadn't seen that "local retailers" thing yet either. Noticed Dell was uptop! (Dell was up 1.58% too at the close )


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Dells always on top and wait and lets see how the "local retailers" grows in the next "Reliability and Service Survey" as more and more of us have a PC made or make are own.


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## SavvyLady (Oct 14, 2001)

I bought Sony VAIO


Savvy


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Sony makes good computers. (They are all my dad uses) ...not as good as mine though... hehe


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## 82ABN (Nov 10, 2001)

I own a Gateway which I bought 3 years ago (PII-350). It's done well by me. I have had small incidents with it, but nothing major. I will just upgrade it as needed for now and pass it on to the kids when it's no longer sufficient for what I do with it. I recently upgraded the memory from 96Mb to 256Mb and will soon add a CD R/W. When the time comes, my next computer will be a Dell.

Rick


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

You are right, there is nothing wrong with gateway (I have personal problems with them... but that is a different matter, time and place... no I have never owned one) but good call for after the gateway kicks out... go dell on your next one.


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

I like to build my own but I try to stay with brand name components like Asus and Gigabyte. I usually shop at the computer shows around here and buy from a company that also has a local store. That way if any thing is wrong during the warranty period I just take it and and get it replaced NOW. Also I don't upgrade my computer all at once. Usually about half of the components change at a time. If I was buying a brand computer I would go with Dell. I provide hardware support to about 2400 dell computers at work and have found them to be very reliable.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

Right at this moment i am seriously considering building one.

My first computer was a packard-bell. By the time it was 18 months old I discovered that nobody was selling them anymore and they had merged with NEC i think. So i was out in the cold.

Then I bought a HP Pavilion 6653. I knew HP would be around a long time. But now i find this computer to be slow. After doing some digging/researching I find that you cannot upgrade this one beyond 800mhz Celeron and the motherboard is specific to HP so not any ATX form factor board will fit inside. They have done this to prevent people from upgrading too much, so that people will throw it out and come back to HP for a new one. What a crock of #@#@@! and when you turn on the HP machine, you get a load of "software" that is totally a waste of disk space. 

Also, you only get a 1 yr warranty on the whole system. if you buy parts seperately some come with longer than 1 yr. HP is waaay overpriced too. Their monitors cost $300 w/1 yr warranty while on the next aisle they have a Samsung Monitor for $159 w/3 yr warranty. And its even a better quality. (the samsung)

Then, look at the aggressive marketing efforts. Wal-mart is currently selling a HP package with a 1.4ghz Athlon CPU for $849. This makes the resale value of my 533mhz HP machine ALMOST NOTHING. Geez..this is worse than a used-car lot.

Now i have a great deal of contempt for the name-brand PC makers. Although I can't really say anything totally "bad" about the computer itself, HP, Compaq, Gateway.... they are out to Rape the buying public.


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## Max19 (Jul 31, 2001)

The resale value of ANY used PC is almost nothing. Don't blame Wal-Mart or HP or anyone else for that. It's the nature of the industry. The technology changes very fast. 

HP provides a product for a specific market. Those computers are for people who want a stable system with good tech support and a warranty with only ONE manufacturer to deal with. People who buy HPs generally do not plan to install any new hardware themselves. HP computers are great for the market they service.

If you want extensive upgradability, rock-bottom prices, and don't need the convenience of one-stop shopping for warranties and support, then obviously an HP isn't for you. Don't slam the company for that. Just buy something that IS for you.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

> This makes the resale value of my 533mhz HP machine ALMOST NOTHING. Geez..this is worse than a used-car lot.


 That is just the way it goes. When I built my P4 at the end of August, dell was selling a somewhat comparable computer for about $1500... which is way more than I paid for the one I built. Now, not even 3 full months later, dell's model is well under $1000. Oh well... you just have to live with it. The 100 GB hd I bought in august went for $300 then (I only paid $150 though) and now it goes for I think somewhere in-between $130 and $160 depending on when and where you get it. Back in early 2000 a 28 GB HD was unheard of and expensive. (hell... back in 98 a 5 GB was something) Now a 28 GB HD is still unheard of but worth nothing... because nobody makes anything that small anymore... and that is only 18 months later and now 100 GB is fairly common. It is something like every 18 months that we double the amount of silicon we can fit on a microchip... so basically that comes out to your investment getting cut in half every year and a half. It isn't all that bad though, because it happens to everybody, so it isn't exactly like you are getting screwed. Also, the way to beat it is instead of buy todays computing power, wait a few days and you can get yesterday's junk for free.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Oh yeah just to add... I remember when 486 came out... those easily went for over $3500. (a packard bell could have gone that high too)


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Top 15 Home PCs

The new ABS Performance 1 leaps to the top Power position, while
NuTrend's Athlon Mega 3 holds on to the number one Value spot.

From the January 2002 issue of PC World magazine
Posted Tuesday, November 20, 2001

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,68789,00.asp

DELL losted the TOP spot.


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

I would go with custom built as well, but always recommend a top brand name for newbies. I used to recommend Gateway, because I truly believed their support and warranties were better than Dell's. Since Gateway has closed *ALL* of their overseas offices, I will start recommending Dell instead.

For anyone with even an iota of experience with computers, I would recommend getting in there, with help from a local friend, and build your own! The experience you gain, even from watching someone else build the system, and you only hold the screwdriver, is phenomenal!

Ladylisa - you go girl!!


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## Dark Star (Jun 8, 2001)

I've looked at the thread carefully and there is a number of good points being made here......

.......having said that I assure you that for those of us here that have built systems past and present there is not one here that has any wishes of not ever having done that.

There is a thing called a learning curve everyone finds a comfort level but you learn most with hands on, and for every mistake I've made I've learned from it and then corrected it.

I really have to agree with Randy in as far as.....

"For anyone with even an iota of experience with computers, I would recommend getting in there, with help from a local friend, and build your own! The experience you gain, even from watching someone else build the system, and you only hold the screwdriver, is phenomenal!"

..... so really there is nothing to fear but fear itself, everything to be gained building your own. Hands on will also enable you to know what it is you need to learn more about and what specific questions to ask about and there is *plenty of talent and experience right here at TSG*

I'd tell anyone who is considering building their own "go for it" there is the "theory" (you can read about it all you want to) and then there is the "practice" (building it) the rewards of building one are many............one being you know what it is that you have.

One last thing *Lady Lisa you go girl* ....... I agree with Randy there as well. 

DS


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## aleece (Nov 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by John Sparkman _
> *Although I have had no problems from my Gateway system, except for the ones I caused playing around with it, I will most likely have my next one custom built. *


I want to put in a plug here for Gateway. I'm on my third in two years, only because I want the newest technology as soon as it comes out.

I like the Gateway three year warranty, their excellent Web site and technical support both by phone and email, their competitive prices, and of course, the fact that their computers work unless messed up by the owner.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

You can buy books on making your own PC that are step bu step too.

Also there are from SmartComputing the Learning Series that has one on building your own PC.

http://smartcomputing.com/


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

Since my job is to work on pc's, software and anything else that decides to die. I've been known to pull out my hair because as was mentioned earlier it's a machine and anything can happen. At work we use only Compaq which range from 133's to the newer models. As a result I know most of the quirks they have and believe me there are quirks. Computers, like cars can have lemons. I have an HP Presario at home but I'm planning on replacing it soon. The kid will get this one.

Building your own pc does take time and you can get the quality you want but it would be a busman's holiday for me and I don't want to build my own. This is just my opinion and for those that want to build - have fun.


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

Smart Computing is a good source. Easy to understand for almost everyone.


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## Dark Star (Jun 8, 2001)

littlemar,

Yes, good point! Whenever you are doing the 'puter' thing at work the last thing you wanna do when you get home is some more 'puter' work....been there done that and it does not leave one any room for a "life".

I can also relate as to how different brand 'puters' have their own quirks. I didn't know much whenever I first tried to screw around with an HP 386......learned quick though.

At one point about three years back when I thought I'd seen it all ( LOL....hehehe) I screwed around with an IBM Aptiva with voice recognition software. Oh the joy of "recovery disks".....
........from that experience I learned that there is no logic in trying to "re-invent the wheel"

Biggest lesson I learned there is that the manufacturers will often times "push out" the product to meet a deadline and often times with problems that they damn well know all about but just put it out there anyways.....
Silly me I actually thought I could fix the software voice recognition problems that IBM was having and they just agreed to send me one of every type of "recovery disk" that might be able to help solve the "unsolvable" voice recognition problems with their Aptivas.

I received no less than 20 "recovery disks" and other BS from them, and they stroked me long enogh to be sure that it was out of warranty whenever they said "Sorry 'bout that, we can't fix it either."
Talk to me about Aptivas, we can talk at length.

Okay all better now. 

DS


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

Dark Star

Wow, were you having a ranting moment??? 

The scary thing is that I completely understand about working with the "big companies" for help. I had to set up a pc with a touch screen for the volunteers at a hospital. Since most of them were in the 70's and 80's it had to almost run itself. Try telling that to the so called support dept. I did get it up and running and now I can tell you I'm considered a saint. 

BTW: I firmly believe in doing an ERD whenever I upgrade these old timers. Of course then the user will always say that they didn't do anything it just died. Yeah, right and I was born yesterday.

Oh, oh, I just had a ranting moment!!!

Mary


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

I do intend to get in there and build my own. I know I will gain a lot from the experience of it. I am a hands-on kinda girl and I love to learn new things.

I also realize that it is important to have someone show me how and guide me when I get stuck and I know I can always rely on the *talent and experience I have found here at TSG*

Dark Star and Randy

Thanks for the positive attitude and here's to learning new things.


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## Dark Star (Jun 8, 2001)

littlemar,

Yes, I did....whoops I guess that happens to the best of us. 

Oh yes, a touch screen whenever it works you are a saint and whenever it does not work they can call the "help desk" or as you say the "support department"

Last major corporation that I worked for had named the touch screen the "Angel" system they thought it was the best thing since pop top cans.
I really can't say that it was a bad thing, but they would come and get me whenever they had sat on hold for "way too long" with the Help Desk at the Corporate office.

It was always the same thing........ "when I touch and point here, the little arrow thingy is over there (an inch to the right) and when I want something at the right margin I can't get to it"

So I'd shut the station down wait 10 seconds re-boot and they were good to go for maybe another couple of hours a whole day if I was lucky..........There was no sence in showing anyone there how to re-boot because the employees were not allowed to turn off the computers.
.....and of course there was 14 of these "Angel" stations at each store and they had 145 stores in five states.

Of course the Help Desk would re-boot the particular computer in question remotely when the employees did get through to them.
They actually thought that was "the coolest"
"Okay stand back and don't touch anything they're fixing it now from Corporate"  

No wonder they are going out of business as I type this.....Geeeez. Gotta laugh 

DS


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## SavvyLady (Oct 14, 2001)

its not funny, but... LMAO here!!!

Savvy


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

Goes to show that all puters and monitors and whatever have their quirks and then there are the quirks working on them or is that quacks??? Anyway, we all just keep plugging away and go to sites that will help us with that problem that won't go away.

Mary


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Just curious... what does LMAO mean? I can wager some good guesses but I wasn't sure...


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

deuce_mn

it means 'laughing my a** off'


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

ok I got most of it... except for the "off" part... don't know why...


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Now that I think about it (as I just read a post with it and attempted to do it again) I think I was sticking an "on" inbetween the L and M...


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

LOL.............. 

Well here's a link to a few more....


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

quite simply, it means LAUGH MY *** OFF.

and in case you ever hear ROFLMAO, that means
Rolling On the Floor Laughing My *** Off!!

Bruce


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

the rotfl I knew... and the lma part of lmao I knew as well... just couldn't figure out the o part for the life of me...  maybe it has something to do with the "sign" thing, huh Lisa??


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

I think you're right about that


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Yeah... well either way I'm still getting my eyes checked at 4 today... whether I can physically get there or not. (I heard the roads are terrible today)


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## 4 Computer Fix (Dec 1, 2001)

Well first of all I would just like to introduce myself. I'm Russ and have been doing computer repair for going on 7 years now. I run my own computer repair business out of my home. I used to do it part time until I started getting more business and better money from this than the job I had (driving a fork truck). Anywho, I just wanted to say Hello to everyone and I love this forum. It's one of the best I've seen. Hopefully I will be welcomed here and lend a helping hand.

Now about the computer part. I run a self built computer myself but am in the process of building another one right now (my son is stealing this one from me). My wife runs the 900 mhz eMachines and my son right now has a HP Pavilion (don't laugh it was free - I worked for HP for 2 years). I love the eMachines for the value to a first buyer. They're cheap and run pretty decent. As for HP - unless it's a Brio or Vectra - ship it back!!! Could tell you some serious horror stories about the Pavilion. As far as buying or having someone build me one - would have to go with most everyone and go with Dell.

Thanks for your alls time for letting put my 2 cents in here.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Yeah that is what is nice about emachines and if you don't have time to put one together you can pick up an Emachines which would probably be cheaper than actually building it yourself. I still prefer building though and then you get the EXACT computer you wanted... no more, no less... 

As for you... welcom to the board...  Help out where ever you want to and where ever you can... and then don't forget to stop by the pub after work... (a.k.a. the "Randon Discussion" forum) I must warn you the "random discussion" forum can get real addicting... but there you can sit back and get to know the people here. You will soon realize that there are really great people here and you won't want to leave... so brace for impact you will find yourself coming back day after day for everyday of the week...  Fortunately for you, you work out of your home so you can really just come whenever you want...


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## 4 Computer Fix (Dec 1, 2001)

Well I'm back for my second day!! I stayed up a lil too late last night I think. LOL 

As far as the LMAO and the ROTFLMAO - you can also go a bit further with ROTFLMAOPMP = rolling on the floor laughing my a** off peed my pants 

Thanks for the welcome!!


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

Welcome 4 Computer Fix

It's nice having you on board. I work as a Network PC Analyst but they should just put down "jack of all..." since I get requests for application problems (how do I do this in Excel???) 

I agree with deuce_mn you will get addicted but it's a great addication. I started out with problems but now I'm here almost every day just to see what's happening.

Have fun and don't work too hard. BTW, I have an HP Pavilion at home and had to redo it three times now. Working on a new one and my kid can have the HP.

  littlemar


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

It is a good addiction... but if you need them... "TSG Anonymous" meetings are in the "random discussion" forum mandays at 8... led by me, of course...   If you surcomb to the temptations and pop into the random discussion forum, stop by the rambling discussion thread and you can watch my talk to myself... since I never have enough company there...


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## Dark Star (Jun 8, 2001)

Deuce,

If your on dial up no one has been able to call you for what?...... weeks now?

You can lead the TSG 12 step meeting next Monday, and no you're not talking to yourself in the "ramblin' " thread we're watching you thru the two way mirror and taking notes. LOL


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## LadyLisa (Oct 22, 2000)

Dark Star

you weren't supposed to tell him about that two way mirror thingy 
I guess I need to go to that meeting "Hi, my name is Lisa and I'm a TSGaholic"


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## Dark Star (Jun 8, 2001)

Awwww, Nooooo I can't believe I let that slip and I think it's too late to edit now.

deuce,
You didn't see that did you?, there is no one but you there when you look in the mirror........... no one but you ........that's right, no one but you........... just repeat that over and over again.
Good now when you look in the mirror there will be no one but you there, just remember that.

DS


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

> Deuce,
> 
> If your on dial up no one has been able to call you for what?...... weeks now?


 No actually I am on wireless DSl (386 kbps )... oh God... if I was on d/u... people wouldn't be able to call for many months because of TSG.

"Hi my name is Mike and I am a never-going-to-be-recovering-TSGaholic..." 

Oh DS I am shocked... I always just thought it was only me I saw in the mirror... you mean there are people watching me there...  (**oh the horror... the pain... the blinding light**) Here I always thought I was alone in there. But haha... never fear, I haven't forgotten about it already... (what mirror???....  )


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Yeah... I know what'cha mean. We have many fine examples right here. 
(I won't say who they are... but it isn't too hard to guess--ask mulder for a hint) 
<img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=294178>








[Disclaimer... I'm really sorry  and ... but it just fit--besides, they're not my work ]


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Here are a few of the others.
<img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=284071> <img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=277804>
<img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=278278><img src=http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=277306>


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

RT,

Thanks for the sound site.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Yeah... thanks for the sound site. I poked around a little last night, but kept getting errors...  Are you still getting through ok?


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## Dan Mc (Nov 8, 1999)

I'd say build your own, but Gateway has served me well...easy to get into the case, solid, roomy, accessable. This one is a PIII 1.0 Gig CPU that started with 128 RAM and a 20 gig HDD...45 minutes of easy work made it a 512 RAM, 40 and 20 GB HDDs, 52X CDROM and 16x40 RW. Only thing lacking is a ZIP drive and as soon as I can grab an IDE controller and Iomega, that'll go in quickly as well.

Builds are great, but Gateway and Dell have most of it there for you with lots of room for expansion.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

deuce_mn,



No all works great for me but for you it's "Oooh, stubborn eh?"


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by Dan Mc _
> *Only thing lacking is a ZIP drive and as soon as I can grab an IDE controller and Iomega, that'll go in quickly as well.*


Hey Dan, get an external USB 250 MB Zip instead of an internal one. You'll pay a little more for it, but you'll have much faster access, and won't take up an IDE slot. You can also carry it around with you, and plug it into a friend's computer for easy transference of files, etc.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Yeah I agree with Randy. I myself would only get a USB ZIP because I don't want it taking up an IDE.


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## subaruwrx (Jan 12, 2001)

///Edited by mod///


Get firewire... And a MAC
--Adam


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## Anne Troy (Feb 14, 1999)

Easy there, Adam. We're a family site!




(After all, we don't pick on you and that other guy that use Macs, do we?)


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Ok I'll agree with you on the Fireware. It's much better than USB and even USB 2.0. I don't agree with the mac thing but you are entitled to your opinion so I'll stop there. I use USB and IEEE 1394 and I would use the Fireware over USB any day, but it seems not a whole uses it as much as USB.


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## combsdon (Jan 4, 2001)

I'd like to take a stab at building one but can any ole' smuck do it or do you have to have some special skills?


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Those special skills help for when you run into problems but that is what we are here for so you are not to worry. For the most part... these days "any ol'smuck" can do it with ease. Every so often you might run into compatibility problems and such but for the most part you need no extended knowledge on the subject... just the more you know, then the more likely it will be finished faster and easier... but hey, with no phyiscal practice in the field you will get no experience to learn it anyay.


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## combsdon (Jan 4, 2001)

> _Originally posted by deuce_mn _
> *Those special skills help for when you run into problems but that is what we are here for so you are not to worry. For the most part... these days "any ol'smuck" can do it with ease. Every so often you might run into compatibility problems and such but for the most part you need no extended knowledge on the subject... just the more you know, then the more likely it will be finished faster and easier... but hey, with no phyiscal practice in the field you will get no experience to learn it anyay. *


thanks, I may just take you (all) up on it if I get to feeling brave.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Just be carefull... if you don't do it right you will end up paying as much as buying a system from someone like Dell. In that case you are still getting a deal because for the same price you are controlling quality and still getting a better system... just if you play the game right you can find some good deals and save hundreds of dollars.  Right now I am building a system for somebody and just picked up a burner off uBid... someone bid $59 on it and was going to get it so one minute before the auction closed I bid $10 higher and won...  man am I sneaky.  It may be a Sony and so it isn't as good as a Yamaha or Plextor... but for $80 (including the shipping) I got a good burner for a good price... the only problem is it isn't going to be mine...  but that is kinda what I meant by "playing the game right"... look for good deals and get good quality parts for good prices... and you will save a tidy bundle.


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## jasonrosegiese (Apr 27, 2001)

Hello all, 
I was just browsing the threads, when I seen this one, I just had to put my two cents in.

If your confident, I would definately say build your own.

I built mine with less than 6 months computer knowledge, and it went very smooth.

I finished the project under $400, and only had to post a few threads to get everything going.

Thats with everything including 17" monitor, printer, and 5 speaker surround system.

I didn't believe people when they told me ram was everything until I built my system with 512Mb WOW

They weren't joking.

Besides the $$ issue, there's a special kind of satisfaction you get when your running on a system you built yourself.

Though my system is only a [email protected] w/512 ram, its surprizingly faster than my friends Compaq [email protected] w/128 ram

Plus his Compaq w/onboard sound and video only has 2 open slots(1 PCI, 1 Shared PCI/ISA) Put a modem in and your stuck with 1 open slot.

With Sound, video, and modem installed, I still have 4 open slots. Not that I need them, but they're there if I do


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

> [email protected] w/512 ram


A Pentium II???  I thought Intel long quite making those? Just curious... that's all. Where did you get it? I was wondering how you built that system for $400...  Now I know how. 512 mb ram isn't exactly cheap... when you are talking about it comprising of almost 1/3 of the budget. I just finished building a Celeron system for somebody. 900 Mhz Celeron, ASUS CUV266 mobo, (supports 3 GB DDR SDRam, 6 USB on board) 256 mb DDR SDRam, 20 GB HD, 32 mb AGP gforce, SB 16 PCI, 2 speaker powered speakers, optical mouse and internet keyboard, ViewSonic 17" A75f true flatscreen, 3Com ethernet, 1.3 GB Double Density CDRW 400W power supply, running winMe (I know I know, it fit in their budget, free curtesy of me--a copy I don't use because Me sucks  )... all this for $500. Good to see you didn't have problems with yours, and you were up for the jump after just getting into computers. The only real way to learn, is to actually go and do it... reading can only show you so much. When building, not only do you save money doing it, but it's fun.  And as you pointed out, you get some sort of satisfaction knowing that you built it yourself.


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## jasonrosegiese (Apr 27, 2001)

Yeah Yeah, I know the PII is kinda outdated now, but when you consider that most store boughts under $1000 still run less than a 1GHz cpu, and 128Mb sdram(256 is usually an upgrade), this thing keeps up pretty good. I'm a gamer, and I haven't found one yet that I couldn't run smoothly on my PC. Also consider that my 6 months experience was trying to keep a Pentium [email protected] w/64Mb of ram running. So this rig is lightening fast to me. I have mutiple hobbies, so I have to really budget my spending for each one.  
I built this one with upgradability in mind

My next step is jump this one to a PIII

I don't mean to blabber on and on, just felt the need to defend my PII  LOL


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## kknla (Jan 19, 2001)

I would never by another out of the box pc. The system im on now was custom built, but only b/c I was pressed with time and was not sure if I could get it running quick enough. Build it your self or have it custom built. In my eyes, there is no other way to go. 
With all the power, I feel like im driving a Monster truck over cars in traffic.
1.8 P4
512mb ram 
are just the basics of this monster.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

Well I did build mine and I am wondering if it was such a good idea. I have but one problem with the build, but it's a problem that could be just about anything and the most difficult to diagnose.

My computer restarts by itself. Also, when it sits idle (nothing but screensaver) for a certain time it goes to "sleep". And if its long enough I cannot arouse this computer from its sleep. i have to physically unplug it from the wall to get it back. 

My cpu temp was 49c at idle up to 55c when playing games. So I installed a software-cooler called VCool and now it shows a temp of 31c at idle. It can't be the temp. It restarts when its at idle!
And, i have almost zero tech support. Gigabyte doesn't have a phone number, and my vendor is BZBOYS.COM (ever hear of them?) they say on their site that their tech support is "limited". So now where do I go? Start RMA'ing the parts one by one to see if I got a bad part?

My memory (DDR) is made by Samsung. could it be a memory problem when it does this at idle? Should I take out the stick from the DIMM and put it in the other DIMM? What if its a compatibility problem w/my video card or something else? How will anyone ever be able to track down such a wide open problem?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

BML,

You should start a tread on your trouble.


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## jasonrosegiese (Apr 27, 2001)

Hewee's right.

#1 You should post this problem on this site, I'm sure the guys here can track your problem down.

#2 The main point of building your own is so you know whats inside, and where they came from.

#3 If the site says they offer little or no tech support, buy elsewhere.

#4 Try the manufacturer's website for online tech support.


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## kiltydel (Feb 7, 2002)

Commercial computers are usually too dedicated or support lines are at premium rates.
As a company we encourage our customers to build their own system on our premises under supervision at a reduced cost so that they have some knowledge of what goes where and how to setup from scratch.
It usually results in a happier customer with more selfconfidence, fewer call outs and an upgradeable machine. Most customers return for all upgrades either buying parts or for us to install
Commercial computers are of excellent build quality (usually) but have limted scope for improvement.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2001)

Personally, which way I go depends on what my needs are. 

The last computer I bought for the house was a Dell what is mainly used to surf the net and as my server for the house. On this, I wanted good reliabilty and really did not need much in the way of extras except for ram. So I bought one of those "lower" end Dells on sale and added Ram myself. 

Before that, I had bought a Monorail system at auction cheap and then custom poured better components into it. Mainly a faster hard drive, video card and ram. 

Before that one, I built myself a system from different parts I had acquired over the course of several months. In fact that Monorail was the first system I did not build completly myself since my old Commodore 64. I started building them in 1984 from parts.


At work, I buy Dells now. Over the last 5 years or so, we have bought from several different manufacturers. 

The Compaqs were a joke, service was none existent and they broke a lot. 

The Aopens have been very reliable, but the warranty sucks. They use the components manufacturers warranty, so you have to check if the individual component is still under warranty. 

The Gateways have been very reliable, but until I see that thier turn around is actually taking hold, I will wait on buying more from them, plus they are not currently on our list that we can buy straight from without having to submit bids. 

HP's break too often and getting service is a joke, plus they are like compaq and use a lot of proprietary parts.


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## stnwerks (Aug 13, 2001)

I just finished my first custom,went great.one suggestion get agood case mine had no info for wiring front usb. read, study, check compatibility, price, order, and build. i've really enjoyed building mine and hope to build more. its nice knowing that my pc is made with quality parts and not lowest bid parts!!
to live is to learn
steve


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## FlaFoci (Dec 25, 2001)

Well after years of buying prebuilt computers I finally built my own XP1700, and I agree that if you build it yourself you have a better undrestanding of how it works.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

Well guys, as you know I built my own machine and had a little problem with restarting intermittently. So I opened it up and re-seated the RAM, blew it out clean with air can, and since then it has been running flawlessly.

I'm proud to say that I'm a successful member of the build-it-yourself club now.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

BML,

How hot does your CPU get?

Mine runs at 118F to 129F with it being 118F to 122F most of the time.


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## jasonrosegiese (Apr 27, 2001)

129 degrees? WOW!!
I've always wondered what kind of temps were safe.
I've heard the cartridge style has cooling problems, but with the golden orb cpu cooler on my [email protected], the highest I've ever seen is 101 degrees (F). And that was with it overclocked to 598MHz.
If I run it at 450MHz, it never goes over 95.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

well, at this moment my Athlon 1600XP is at 116 degrees f; while my system is at 73 degrees f. So Hewee, my temps are very similar to yours.

I downloaded a software cooler program which cuts the CPU temp drastically when its at idle, but temp was not the root of my problem. I emailed AMD folks and they tell me as long as it is below 95 degrees c, then its ok. And mine equals about 49c.

My system seems to be stable; has not restarted on its own for a week now, with these temps.


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## stnwerks (Aug 13, 2001)

BLM
i glad to here your system is doing better, hopefuly it was mem seat prob and it(PC) will behave for a very long time. your temp looks good for amd 1600. I have 700 tbird it runs at about 22 -25C. my 1400 tbird runs 32 C. idle @ 1470.
have a great day 
steve


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

BML,

My motherboard is at 73F also.
I did see it at 42c before I add two case fans.
I put one in the front and one on the back. The PC came with one fan on the case side.
It was when I turned the fan on the side around to blow in on the CPU that I got the temp down 10F.
So I took off about 10F by adding the fans and about 10F more by changing the side to blow in on the CPU.

What is the software cooler program you have?

Got a link for it?

I did find this here.

http://mbm.livewiredev.com/
See "Cpu temperature" at the left.
Then you get the link on the right for "Ask AMD - Self-Service Technical Support: AMD_TECH_KB" 
But right now I am not getting tru.

Seam they tell you the max. but not what is normal for the CPU. 
But 95C is way hotter then what we have so I guess all is ok. The PC is new and I am wondering what it will be like this summer.

Man 95c is very hot. Don't know what that is in F
The PCProbe I can adjust the one slider on the alarm and it up this high 81c/177F.

You want your eggs sunny side up.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

VCool

It's called VCool; that is one link to it. I forget now which link I followed to download it. THere are several out there. I tried it and it did work as advertised. Dropped my CPU temp from 49c way down to 30c.

But what's interesting now is that since i seem to have fixed the problem by reseating the RAM I have disabled it and my computer is fine back at 49c. So I may decide to uninstall it.


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## Andy Brooks (Feb 1, 2002)

I bought a HP Pavillion 780 c 
P4 2.0 GHZ 1024 SDRAM 80 GB CD-RW 16X8X40XMAX etc etc with
Mx 90 Monitor19`


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

> _Originally posted by jasonrosegiese _
> *Yeah Yeah, I know the PII is kinda outdated now, but when you consider that most store boughts under $1000 still run less than a 1GHz cpu, and 128Mb sdram(256 is usually an upgrade), this thing keeps up pretty good. I'm a gamer, and I haven't found one yet that I couldn't run smoothly on my PC. Also consider that my 6 months experience was trying to keep a Pentium [email protected] w/64Mb of ram running. So this rig is lightening fast to me. I have mutiple hobbies, so I have to really budget my spending for each one.
> I built this one with upgradability in mind
> 
> ...


Well, there isn't really anything wrong with the PII, they were just annoying and bizzare. Plently of people still use Pentium Pros and under 400 Mhz Intel and AMD, so why shouldn't you use a 450 PII? My brother uses a 333 AMD k6 with 256 SDRam and it runs pretty good, except that it takes about 15 to boot. Once you get into windows it feels like it's at least 500... but not much more. 

Just some personal advice if you would like... if you are looking to save a hundred or so on that PIII... get a Celeron at the same speed. They are interchangable and exactly the same, except that the Celeron cache is 128k and the PIII is 256. So there is a slight decrease in speed of the PIII because of the smaller cache, but it isn't very noticable... especially when you consider that you are saving about a hundred dollars.

BML... that sleepy computer thing sometimes happens and it's hard to say why. If you disable the "sleep" function, that won't happen anymore. Also, experiment with standby and hibernation and see if either of those works without freezing like yours. Samsung makes good memory so it is less likely than other ram to be bad, but that doesn't mean that isn't it. Start a thread for that problem as hewee suggested... that's what we're here for. That is also why you don't need the tech support from BZBOYS, because we're here for you.  That is the only downside with building or getting custom built, is that if you don't know a lot about computers you have to keep in mind that it isn't impossible that you will run into a headache. That isn't a serious enough problem to say that you shouldn't build or get custom built. Of course it is always nice to get tech support from the guy who made it, but that is your decision whether you should buy pre-made (like dell) or custom built or build yourself.

BML ok I have made it to page five now and see you got it working... good for you.

Hewee... we don't understand your fahrenhiet giberish.  

BML... 95C! It will burn up at that temp! But rest assured... as long as you have a heatsink and working fan on it, it won't ever come close to reaching that temp.  Anything over 40 is hot, but AMDs traditionally run hotter so I don't know what the standard for them is. My guess is that 49 is just about right on.

Hewee 95C is roughly 210F.  Imagine touching that, I once played around with ligiud nitrogen once and was making magnets levate. What you do is you use a superconductor and get it cold enough and it creates a magnetic field of opposite charge, and that is what the liquid nitrogen is for. Well, it comes out of a tube from a tank gasous but when it hits the surface of the cup you collect it in it turns to liquid and has this what makes you think is steam coming off it and is crystal clear and it just makes you wannz touch it... but that would be bad if you did... nitrogen becomes a liquid at about -130C. Halfway almost between where water freezes and absolute zero, and nothing is colder than absolute zero. Just let me tell you you don't want to touch it.  Thats about -260F.

BML if the software is working (provided it really is at 30 and it just doesn't say so) then you might as well keep it. A hot cpu=bad... a cool cpu=good. Really, the cooler the better even if it runs fine at 49. The cooler the cpu, the faster it can run to it's specs. 49C is hot.

Andy... that HP you got seems nice.  (although it _is_ still an HP  )


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

BML,

Thanks but I have the KT266 chipset so that program will not work.

Go here http://www.xbitlabs.com/cpu/coolers-2/ and look at the chart down by the botton. It showes the temp with all the CPU cooling systems they have there.
The AMD does get very hot.
You and I are way better off then the temp's there.
Now they show in the other charts that after the PC warms up and is in idle mode that the temp drops. I don't see that happen.
But my motherboard chipcore or somthing like that gets very hot. Seen that at another site in the notes it was the on motherboard that had the #7 note by it.
I don't know if that has anything to do with the CPU temp or not. 
But the more I find out on the temp the better I feel. I had this PC for 3 months and I had just installed the PCprobe 2 and seen the temp and freaked out but I feel better about it all now.

deuce_mn,

That's right I understand your fahrenhiet giberish.

I was guessing that 95C was around 200F.
Wonder how hot my truck gets.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2002)

I take another approach to getting a computer...

First off I run a Systemax from Tiger...... Will explain later...
Athlon 1000 mhz, Windows ME, CD ROM, CD REWRITE.
Standard 56k modem, standard 128 voice sound card W/voice.
"Upgraded" to GeForce2 64mb video card.

I buy my computers from Tiger. Cheap as dirt and infinitely expandable. Then upgrade the components up to my specs.

It came with an 8 MB garbage video card and I replaced that. I put in a CREATIVE CD RW. Straitened out all the bugs and turned off some usless crap using MSConfig selective startup.
Took the heat sink off the CPU and added extra conductive paste and replaced. Put an extra blow in fan at the front to compliment the suction fan at the back. Also added a better CPU heatsink fan.
(Athlon CPU now runs 103F to a high of 109F after playing a good 4 hours of Quake III Arena.  )

Now up and running fine 
Well... as well as Windows ME possibly can.


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## jjb (Dec 9, 2001)

Ok,now I have to ask.............just how do you check these temps you are refering to?????

Now that I have just completed reading this entire thread I am compelled to throw in my comments.
First,this system was my first,it is 2 years old and was bought mail order(anybody ever watch the computer store on value vision?).Overall I would put my satisfaction in the 85 percentile range.I think at the time it was pretty good value to the dollar except for the software bundle which was about 70% useless.Would I do it again or recommend this route to anyone?Absolutely not.
At the time I bought this I was totally computer illiterate,since It arrived I have been obsessed with learning all I can.After many,many hours,sleepless nights,and computer induced migraines After all this I am even still married.
Since I have increased my knowledge(although still very limited)and I was also fortunate to find this sight I think I would even try a jjb built.This is my thought on going about this.

Since computers have little to no resale value and are outdated so quickly I was thinking of doing this as a learning tool.Why not pick up several older models from auctions,bargain flyers,garage sales etc. Tear them apart to see what makes them tick,maybe buy some parts to do some upgrades.Clean them up good,make sure they are working properly and then give them away.I am sure you could find a needy family or a friend who would happily take it for a childs first computer.You learn as you go,are out very little if you screw up,and have plenty of parts to try again.

I work for a municipality,every year they have a police auction.It seems every year they have a ton of old systems from various departments.These are by far not dream machines,I recall 2 years ago the largest harddrive out of the bunch was like 1GB,but they went for 10-15 bucks a piece and everything was said to be in working order.They even had some better units that were the results of criminal investigations.Seems to me tearing a few of those apart,maybe mixing up a few parts and some minor upgrades would be a great learning experiance.When you have built your own confidence move on to doing one that is going to cost you deeper in the pocketbook.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2002)

Well... My method of finding the CPU (processor) temp is probibly the most brain dead in this forum... But here it goes.

I restart my computer... hit "Delete" on first startup screen and get into the "CMOS Setup Utility". Then I arrow down to "PC Health Status" and press "Enter".
Within there it tells you what temp your processor is running in both C and F.(Celsius and Fahrenheit). And can also be set a CPU Warning Temperature Alarm and an Auto Shutdown Alarm.

This is with Award BIOS v6.00PG.

I think you can also get temerature gauges that go into one of your drive bays.

This is my way in any case.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

jjb,

I get the temp from the Award BIOS also.
But I also have Asus PC Probe that came with the motherboard that I installed.
It tells you the temp, voltage and fan speeds.

On the new boards the CPU is monitored from the thermal diode and you get a more true reading of the temperatures.

http://usa.asus.com/inside/a7m266d-rec.htm

The A7M266-D incorporates special features to protect the condition of your valuable CPU and motherboard. ASUS COP (CPU
Overheating Protection) is a hardware protection circuit that automatically shuts down the system power before temperatures are high
enough to permanently damage your CPU. The temperature is directly monitored from the thermal diode on AMD Athlon MP and
Athlon XP processors, providing more accurate readings in real-time. Also included is an onboard warning light that prevents users
from installing incompatible AGP cards (i.e. 3.3 V) which may permanently damage the motherboard.


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## jjb (Dec 9, 2001)

Thanks foamer and hewee-
I have the exact bios as foamer so i will have to check out the "braindead" method.
Hmmmmm,and I thought I was getting close to even think about building my own!!!!!!
Better find out what a thermal diode is first!!!!!!LOL


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

jjb,
Your welcome.

On the thermal diode I don't know if that is something new or not but I hear you get a better temp reading because it is a lot closer to the true temp of the CPU.

Get a good case that moves the air.
Also you will see AMD approved PS but also there are AMD Recommend ones. The better ones have two fans on the PS.

Read my tread over here.
CPU temperature - http://www.tweaksanlinks.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3c6743d433ecffff;act=ST;f=3;t=42

"de cat" talked about the thermal diode there some place.

Also read the Cases tread. http://www.tweaksanlinks.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3c6743d433ecffff;act=ST;f=8;t=4


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## BrianHed (Dec 29, 2001)

I currently have a custom built system and I'm looking to build again or buy a Dell. 

Here's my problem....

Dell: 
only two 5.25 bays
no soundblaster audigy platinum soundcards
no geforce4 yet
pricing is competitive though
proprietary bios, power supply and probably case


Custom:
i would like to have a two harddrive raid or ultra scsi
dont have to pay for operating system
ram upgrades are cheaper
lots of research and e-shopping


So, I can get a Dell with mediocre hardware but very reliable and affordable, or build a perfect machine for about the same price but lots of hassle.

hmmmmmmmmm!


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

BrianHed,

I would make my own.

If I did go with a Dell I would get one of the Small Business ones.
http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/default.htm

Desktops or Workstations.

If you want Windows 98SE on it your out of luck now because they just did away with that option.

The bios, power supply and case are all proprietary. They will give you or did 3 months ago a windows CD but it look at the bios so it can only be used on that Dell.

I have seen all the model at a Store we have in town here that shows all the Dell's and you can then go online to order them from Dell.
Sacramento, Ca is the only place in the USA that has one of the stores that show Dell's. It is not a Dell store but one that just shows them.
Dell has gone down hill and have got really proprietary and have given you less option as in the pass and that is to bad but they all have gotten that way to keep cost down. That is down side of all the price drops.


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

hewee

I agree that the quality of some Dells has gone down hill. I would never buy the optiplex case shown here.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/line_desktops.htm

They have several at work here and the users complain about how hot the floppy disks get (they think they will melt). The floppy drive sits right over the processor heatsink so all the heat goes right there. The case is so small that standard addin cards cant be used and it also has a laptop style cdrom drive in it. If you are buying a dell get at least a real tower system with room for expansion.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Lurker1,

I would never buy that optiplex.

I just had me one made in a small shop in town and I am very happy with it.
Only thing I would have done if I was thinking and checked things out better is that I would of gotten a better case that had more air flow tru it and a PS with 2 fans on it.
Here is the case I got.
http://www.a-top.com/750/750.htm

It does not let much air in the front. The PS has just the 1 fan and the vent on it are in the back top so it does not help in sucking the heat up and out from the CPU like the others that have a 2 fan at the bottom.

Check out this case and PS.

http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=120199&Product_Code=8135

http://www.crazypc.com/products/powersupplies/powersupplies.htm


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2002)

While we are at it... Why don't we have any of the people who have built... give they're "supreme" setup.

Best Mother boards... hard drives... CD-ROM,RW's... Modems... Audio, video cards... Software to have.

Include OP setup...

I'm going to learn something if it kills me.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, I wouldn't call it a "supreme" setup by any means. There are ways to build a machine that will be faster. My main goals in building MY computer was 

1. to have total control of the upgradeability down the road - not to be told I have a proprietary motherboard etc.

2. to have a faster (not fastest) machine with enough power & memory to multi-task & storage space too.

So, i believe I have reached that goal with this setup:

Athlon XP1600 CPU
Thermaltake Volcano 5 cooler
GA-7DX motherboard (had to get a DDR-compatible board so i could have high-speed RAM)
256mb RAM, DDR
40gb hard drive, plus my old 15gb drive as back up = 55gb total
labtec speakers (for good sound from my MP3s)
CD-RW, from my old computer
kbd + mouse from my old computer
Ethernet Card from my old computer (for my cable modem connection)
Modem from my old computer (not really using it right now but it's nice to have)
Antec case w/300 p/s and fans to cool it (offers easy access to the inside for upgrades or service)
new floppy drive.

That's a good point to start. Now in the future I can add hard drive space, RAM, or a faster CPU if I feel the need for speed.


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

hewee 

Looks like you got a good case. I have seen those aluminum cases. Really pretty but out of my price range. 

Foamer 

Im with BML. I don't aim for a supreme machine with my computers. It's all a balance of price, reliability, and speed. Therefore I NEVER get the latest processor or operating system. 

My current best system. 256m RAM, 40 gig hd, EPOX 8KTA3 pro, Athlon XP1600 and a Vodoo3 2000 video card. Running 98SE
Probably my next upgrade will be the video card buts its working fine right now.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2002)

Some misunderstandings here...

What I ment by "supreme" machine wasn't something that would play just games like lightening or crack the national defence encription in 5 sec's flat. I'm getting exactly what I expected.

I'll have to watch the kinds of words to type in here so as not to cause misunderstandings.

Lastest doesn't mean "best". I wouldn't put Windows XP in a machine on a bet. To expensive and over bloated.
I'm running ME and that almost fits in the same catigory. Just that it came with the machine I'm running.

I have a post in here explaining how I get a new computer up and running. If that isn't a compromise I don't know what is.

I'm not in ANY way disappointed with the posts I'm seeing.


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## Fyzbo (Feb 6, 2002)

For me the major reason is cost. It is a lot of fun, an much more informative to build your own computer, but in many cases it can cost more. By packing a pc with their own hardware and software companies can charge less for a pc as a whole than by selling seperate parts. So unless you have very specific specs for your machine that you just can't live without (or have a great distributor) the best bet in todays market is to buy a premade machine.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Lurker1,

Well there are lot of good cases that are cheaper and come with a PS.

That one had no power but I posted it because it was nice and I never seen one like that that had the added fans above the PS.


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## stnwerks (Aug 13, 2001)

Hi 
just dropped by to put in my two cents 
when i built my system it was price vs performance. Sure I'd love 2 gig processor but by getting 1.4 the savings on cpu almost paid half the total cost. Also New Egg has max top case 350 watt and 2 extra fans $50.

AK-31 shuttle 
[email protected] 
dynatron 625 cooler 
265mb kingmax 2100 cl 2 
Abit GF 2 
maxtor 20gb 7200 
Max top case 350 watt psu

And New Egg is member BBB
Have a great day
steve


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## biotwin (Feb 8, 2002)

I've got a compaq and a custom built machine. Personally I think a compaq is great for the user who wants a stable and reliable computer that is easy to maintain (companion CD brilliant for the everday user!).
However, when it comes to having control over your system you can't go past a custom built machine. Like many others have said You can figure out how it works much easier. Maintence also becomes a learning process.


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## TCCIT (Feb 11, 2002)

Custom build is almost always better over Compaq or the lower end PCs because of an easier to work with motherboard.

I prefer to build my own, although I would go Dell if I just needed to purchase for a company or friend. Especially for friend, because then they ask the company for help instead of me.


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## tmatika (Mar 1, 2002)

unfortunatly, you don't get the warranty on custom builds that you get with a Dell......... best warranty service I've ever seen. I dropped my 24" monitor down 2 flights of stairs the first day I had it and called dell and they just told me to send it back, no questions asked. They had a new one on my door step in 3 days. not bad......


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## kiltydel (Feb 7, 2002)

I should say that my company supply custom build to individuals where the warrany is 12 months on the main computer and peripherals and the monitor is totally covered for three years ON SITE. One phone call and an engineer visits the next working day, removes the damaged/non working unit and fits a BRAND NEW replacement. Nosending the unit back to base, no waiting except over a weekend if a call is made on Friday to report a fault.
Not all custom builders are rogues


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## rayzin (Jun 6, 2000)

The company I work for has 11 Dell's in our training center and 7 in the offices. We have used Compaqs- they suck. The training center is all Optiplex GX 150,Win 98se, P4, gig processors, lots room to expand. They let me choose the OS since we bought the Optiplex. They are stable and fast as ****. The tech support has been great! One instance the tech guy put together a website for me to do some reinstall stuff from.
We also have a Dell power edge server on the LAN, Win NT 4.0, very stable. Compaq servers are supposed to be great.

I have worked on HP's and Emachines. I can still smell the stink. Hey, Wally World sells HP- that should tell you something.

The town offices here use all Gateway and loves them. I am a little leary though when I heard they shut down an big tech call center.

Build my own? I would love to if I had the time. I have worked on a fair amount of machines and I am fairly confident that, with the help of TSG and some friends I could build a great machine on my own and feel good about doing it.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2001)

Sheesh in my last post in this thread mentioned how the Compaqs we had were a joke.

We got word that the City Council has decided to replace every workstation and server with leased Compaqs. 

The sad part is that the lease is actually going to run almost $100,000 more than buying them outright from Dell and the service contract with Compaq is next day, while the price for the Dells include their 4 hour gold response time. 

This is over a 3 year period. Which mean in 3 years, we will have to replace everything yet again.


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## rayzin (Jun 6, 2000)

Brooks,
My deepest sympathy!

I call them "a piece of Compaq."

Ray


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2001)

I have spent the last several years trying to keep these things running. 

A Compuke would break, we would call for service. Thier tech would come out and decide that the motherboard needed to be replaced, but he would have to get one in. A week later it would come in and they would replace it. 

Thier service sucks.

Oh well, I am working on getting certified for database administration, so I may be leaving later in the year anyway.


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## littlemar (Jul 12, 2001)

We use Compaq's here too and I have no choice in the matter. My boss is a AS400 guy so of course he knows better then the people working on them. (his idea of fixing a pc is to reformat every time) 

I had one DeskPro that crapped out right out of the box. Called Compaq and they sent a replacement HD, still didn't start up, so they sent different RAM, still didn't work, I had worked with the recovery disk etc and this puppy just wouldn't start up. The tech came in after I called "not real happy" and he replaced the power supply and the motherboard. Okay, so after all this wouldn't it have been just easier to take the piece of s**** back and replace it with something else???? The only thing not replaced was the tower itself. Go figure.


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

littlemar

Warranty service doesn't work that way. It costs the companies big bucks to send a live person out on site. Much cheaper just to send parts and let you do all the work.  

Once you get a piece of equipment in it's yours forget about replacing it with a new PC.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2001)

> I had one DeskPro that crapped out right out of the box. Called Compaq and they sent a replacement HD,


Sent...Sent... I wish that they would have sent us parts, but the agreement was that they provide the hardware support, and we were not supposed to open the cases, so we had to wait for them to come out.

I have not seen the newest service agreement, but I hope that it is a different one this time around.


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## thecaravanman (Mar 28, 2002)

Hi,

Building your own is much more interesting and educational than buying one and it's so easy that I don't know why more people don't do it?

thecaravanman


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## ancientone (Mar 24, 2002)

I would rather build my own PC, than pay more and get less. I can get what I want usually at a better price.


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## kiri_9 (Apr 22, 2002)

Why would someone buy a computer on the advice of a blonde teenage boy who stands in line for half an hour only to realize he's in the wrong line?? That's a guy I'd take advice from, for sure. Next you'll be buying your computer at a grocery store.
Dell could have done better. 

Actually, I'd buy a computer based on the opinion of someone who's been in the computer business for years... someone who can do more than click an icon to run a program, not just buy a system because "my best friend bought one so I thought I would..." 

Buy something totally upgradeable, not an all-in-one system that's as useless as a wet paper bag when it comes time to run that new game Joey just brought home.

Most "brand-name" systems these days are not fully-upgradeable units. Some have a USB-only keyboard and mouse
that won't even let you access the harddrive for reformat if you have a crash. And heaven forbid you try to add any more drives to one of those tiny things, many have no bays to put anything in!

Just a few cents of advice, I hate seeing people buy some of these big-boy computers only to be hurt by having no local service or tech support and non-upgradeability.


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## stnwerks (Aug 13, 2001)

Warning
Building a PC isn't for everyone, it takes a little time to build.It takes even more time to choose the components that will make the PC of your dreams or as the case might be your needs.If you have time and it interests you, go for it, it's a great hobby. Warning PC is very addictive OCing even more so. I want to build new one full tower water cooled ect, ect, very addicting!!!!
just do it !
steve


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## bobbi (Dec 21, 2000)

I did a combination. I bought a used Dell and customized it. I like the Dell because it's easy to access the mother board, cards etc. Plus Dell has excellent support.


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## Jballou (Nov 21, 2001)

I am addicted to building computers. Sometimes I find it a little cheaper to buy a computer built (mainly because of shipping). After that i would take it apart, erase the hard drive, and reassemble it or incorporate parts in other computers.


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## XP-1800 (Apr 26, 2002)

Well, I am into building my own..............I have never fancied an off the shelf jobbie. Although there seems to be some good priced machines out there.
I say I build my own, but it is a compromise.....I decided what I wanted and traded in my old machine to my local pc shop, who ripped out the bits I was keeping, and installed them and the new parts into a new case.
So now I have an XP1800/KR7A Abit non raid/256mb ddr ram/20gb seagate hdd 5400/Geforce2 gts ultra 64mb/sb live 1024/LS120 floppy drive (+ 1 disc which wont darn well format)/32x cd-rom drive pioneer front loader/ext 56k usb modem/400w psu/extra fans + others bits like printer etc.
I also use Vcool and cpu at 34 deg c/case at 22 deg c.......dropped temps by about 10 degs to above.
Run win98se/ie6/avg6/ontrack 2001 av/spyblocker/zonealarm/hacktracer...........oh and the weather is pretty good today..
Enjoy emensely the posts and humour in here......keep it up...


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## nga1017 (Mar 20, 2002)

i would say that commercially produced computers are not a good idea. I bought an HP last october and have frequently been disappointed. First of all, many manufacturers only use Microsoft due to evil marketing techniques used by our friend Bill (the devil) Gates. So, as far as I know, (and i may very well be wrong) Dell, Gateway, and other pc's (i think Sony) all use Pentiums so if you like AMD you're out of luck. My friend created a pc for himself at the same time as I bought my HP and he ended up with a much much better system for around 200++ dollars less. Also, when you build your own, as many know you get what you put in it. I didn't bother to really investigate and ended up with no AGP slot in my motherboard!! I ignorantly figured that a spanking new "top of the line" computer would have an AGP slot, and I was wrong. Serves me right, for trusting big companies. If you don't know alot about computers, I'm sure you can easily find a computer geek at your local college or computer shop that would be happy to help you or build you a good computer with excellent components. Trust me the problems one encounters when building a computer are often much less stressful than knowing one just sunk 1500++ into a system with an irreversible problem, such as no AGP! (in my case) I have heard good things about DELL and everything else like emachines, compaq, hp, and gateway all suck for the pc enthusiast. Things are getting a bit better but not good enough. If you like AMD forget about it, build your own. As always, this is just my opinion and i'm no expert, just a kid with a lot of spare time and a love for computers.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Geeze... I can't belive this thread is still going.  My only problem is that when I build I get the highest quality components and when the price starts to approach what the a similar system of much lesser quality (aka piece of crap) would cost from from the "brand name" I start to cut corners where it is possible and try to get software for cheap and stuff like that to justify building (which would be to do it for less)... and that is how I made the whole "Me" mistake.   no wonder why someone wanted to run their car over it


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## Blondone (May 26, 2002)

I have an HP Pavilion 8655C . I bought it almost 2 years ago.

I have had some pretty frustrating things happen, I had a 3 1/2
floppy metal edge EXPAND and destroy the floppy.. No biggie BUT I had friend over he works on alot of puters.. 

He has a Sony, he pointed out what a UNIQUE design ( REALLY HARD TO OPEN) NEED THREE arms LOL to work on it. 

My system came with two discs and all programs where on it. I REALLY HATE THAT .. Never again..

I am very adventerous on my puter and learn from MY MISTAKES.
But I WILL NEVER EVER BUY ANOTHER HP again.. 

My eyes are drawn to SONY!!!! My mind says DELL. 

Just my humble opinion. 

A Blond


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## willbdunn (May 24, 2002)

i've had a dell for two years, and i've been pretty happy with it for the most part. except for a few minor quirks (which i probably caused) it's been problem-free. however, my next comp i want to build myself mostly because it's cheap and i'm a poor jobless guy


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## rhettman5 (Dec 3, 2000)

Defending the "store" brands !
I bought this Computer 2 years ago (Compaq 7885) and although I have had a few minor problems, the price difference is hard to beat.

I didn't have the smarts to build my own, so I went to the "Custom" shops to see what I could get.

The compaq :700mhz pentium3, 128 meg ram (I added 128 more myself)..cd,dvd + cdburner on seperate bay.

The "Custom" shops could not match the price of the compaq, the closest one was simular except it cost $100 more and had no burner.

Remember not everyone has the skill or time to build there own, I learned about msconfig, start-up, spyware,the importance of anti-virus..etc all here.

I am sure that building you own is rewarding and fun..but...here I am on a old Compaq, running new games and playing at this site, haven't missed a beat ! 

If you are a newbie, buy the name brand at a good price, if in the future you want to play...THEN go for it, most off the shelf PC's will do everything the casual user wants... ...Rhett...PS...waiting for the "guru's" to blast me


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## buckaroo (Mar 25, 2001)

I meandered through all 100+ posts on this thread and appreciated the information, especially the encouragement to build your own PC. That has got me to thinking and wondering what sites, stores or whatever is recommended for buying the parts. I already bookmarked "New Egg" from this thread. Does anybody have any other recommendations???????

Thanks!


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## korgul (Jun 5, 2002)

Well I would say if you have the skills then build your own. If you do not have the skills then even still build your own cuse you can always ask here and get an answer to the problem.

as for sites to buy from I use www.mwave.com . The prices are reasonable and they keep in good contact with you on the status of you parts.

You can also check out numerous vendors at resellerratings This is a site that will allow you view and or add comments about a vendor. You can put in positive and negative comments about your expeirances. It also rates a company on the responses that are received.


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## buckaroo (Mar 25, 2001)

Gotta love this site! Appreciate you checking in and sending along the links. They've been duly bookmarked...will be checking them out.

While I'm at it, any recommendations for sites that may give a primer on building your own? I checked out Smart Computing site and they apparently have an entire issue dedicated to buidling your own, but you have to be a subscriber to read it on line.

Thanks again.


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## Jballou (Nov 21, 2001)

Newegg.com and MWave.com are almost exactly the same. Their catalogs are laid out almost the same, they carry almost the same items, and their prices are the same.


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## brushmaster1 (Jun 15, 2002)

I always build my own, BUT...

I have one little problem...I'm unemployed.

When I fried the mobo and CPU in my latest machine, I had only one choice.

I cannabalized my wife's Gateway 450. I used her mobo and CPU and case...everything else is from my old machine. I eliminated all the proprietary Gateway stuff from the BIOS (Phoenix...yucccchh!), and now have a really strange hybrid.


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## BML (Nov 25, 2001)

It's too bad that it is not as easy to build a laptop/notebook.

I'd build one if it was.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Man I can't believe this thread is still going.  Laptops are the one thing that is just easier to buy already made. You will get a product that is smaller, lighter and maybe cheaper....... but you have to sift through all the crap that is associated with prebuilt computers... yuk.


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