# Will oil get hot enough to melt aluminium ?



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

I'm trying to free a stuck crank,
and one of the things i am trying is hot oil.

I want to know if it can get hot enough to melt aluminium.

John


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

john1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to free a stuck crank,
> and one of the things i am trying is hot oil.
> ...


*Aluminum*

Melting Point: 933.437 K (660.323°C or 1220.581°F)
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele013.html


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

No, unless you are talking oil fire. In that case, yep. Oil has a flash point of about 450-500*F if you are talking motor oil. Aluminum melts at about 1200-1250*F. 

Not a chance unless it is flaming when you pour it in.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Beat by Wacor, but I still got something extra in. Watch how hot you get the oil.  Woooof, owwwwww.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I did not think it would melt aluminium,
but i wasn't sure.
I am using a small aluminium saucepan to heat some oil on a small
camping stove/ring.

Its a synthetic oil and i don't know its upper liquid temperature,
i was concerned that the small saucepan might melt, and deposit hot
oil all over the burner, which would not be much fun for me.

However i have now all but given up on this mini engine.
If i cannot free the crank very soon, then it will be scrapped.

The flywheel has been severely hammered with drifts in a rotary
direction. The pulley bolt has been severely torqued with long bars,
and tightened such that i am unwilling to further torque it. The head
has been removed and the piston tops have been severely hammered with
large hammers using short stout pieces of wood as drifts. The whole of
the clutch housing and assembly has been removed.

Not the slightest movement is detectable on the crank.

I feel this will end with the scrap merchant.

John


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

Try some kerosene in the block. Drain the oil and fill it with kerosene and let it soak. If that won't free it I would scrap it. If it does free it, make sure to drain the kerosene and fill it back up with oil before you try to start it.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Skivvywaver,

Kerosene. We call that paraffin. I have used paraffin before as a
freeing agent, i used to use it for all sorts of stuff on engine parts.
Now i use diesel, i find it is far more 'seeking' than paraffin, and
it does not leave moisture behind like paraffin does. I took the
precaution of looking up diesel to see what Americans call it,
and as far as i can see you call it diesel.

I have left the parts soaking in diesel for days, and i have also fed
my blowlamp flame down each of the bores for a while each.

I dont feel like completely separating this engine in order to get at
the lower parts of the pistons and the big ends. Unlike a straight
forward engine, the engine of a 'Mini' has been engineered to be very
compact, it has the gearbox and crankshaft in the sump, the gearbox
shares the engine oil, the engine unit is cross-mounted from side to
side under a shorter than usual bonnet (hood). The drive is to the two
front wheels via short shaft drives which stick out each side of the
gearbox/sump to the front wheels.
The clutch is a curious assembly which is driven from the middle of
two concentric shafts, the outer of which the clutch feeds to return
drive back to the gearbox/differential assembly.
This is not mine, its just a pic i found on google:
*****








*****
Most of the engine peripherals are fairly easy to work on, although
cramped, but getting to the big-ends is quite involved, and i just dont
feel like it for a vehicle that is in such poor general condition that
it will almost certainly be scrapped.

The reason i wanted to get the engine to run is that breakers (car
scrap dealers) locally will give sixty pounds sterling (121 dollars)
for a scrap vehicle if you drive it in. If they have to collect it,
its much less.
But it looks like it will be collected. Probably tomorrow.

Regards, John


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## TRS-80 vet (Jun 18, 2005)

If the crankshaft is seized, and you ARE able to free it up, do you think the motor will actually run? If it then DOES run, do you want to scrap it?


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

> The reason i wanted to get the engine to run is that breakers (car
> scrap dealers) locally will give sixty pounds sterling (121 dollars)
> for a scrap vehicle if you drive it in. If they have to collect it,
> its much less.
> But it looks like it will be collected. Probably tomorrow.


I can not believe that is all the salvage value is.

It must be in horrid condition.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Wacor,

Years ago when i used to do lots of things with old cars, buying,
selling, fixing, breaking, scrapping and various such like activities,
i could take an old wreck down to the local breakers yard and actually
get money for it.

Then along came the nineties (and early eighties), the value of steel
dropped through the floor (in this country) and a person had to pay
money to have an old wreck taken away by scrap dealers.
This led to people dumping their unwanted scrap cars in back roads,
often with distinguishing features removed where possible. Such wrecks
had to be removed by the local authorities, who merely passed costs on
to the residents council tax. (council tax is a levy imposed opon
everyone who lives in this country, Britain, just for living in this
country. It is viewed as illegal by many people here)

Dumping old cars became something of a national pastime, DVLA (our
national vehicle licensing authority) revised their regulations
regarding unused vehicles, to make people responsible for them and to
pass on the names and addresses of anyone they passed the vehicle on
to, if the 'next owner' could not be located, then they would pursue
the last known owner as being still responsible. This led to some very
convoluted and interesting ways of disposing of unwanted vehicles.
The whole business was, and still is, a pain in the neck.

Since then the value of steel has increased somewhat ( in this country)
and gradually old wrecked cars have slowly recovered some value, and
hopefully will acrue some more. At the moment about sixty pounds
sterling is the best price i can find.

You do not mention where you live, but i would be interested to see
what sort of price you could get for a rusty old wreck of a mini with
a seized engine. ( kerbside weight 1400 lb / 638 kg )

And if you had to pay money to have such a vehicle removed, what would
you be prepared to pay ?

**********

"TRS-80 vet" asks:
_
If the crankshaft is seized, and you ARE able to free it up, do you
think the motor will actually run?
If it then DOES run, do you want to scrap it?_

Well, the crankshaft is certainly very seized.
If i can free it, then yes i can get the engine to run.
The previous owner (by chance) visited me yesterday, and he says:
"the transfer gears are broken"
Now i don't know if they are broken or not, personally i don't think
they are, but i don't know. If they are, then no i will not bother
fixing them, even if the engine runs, so maybe it won't drive even if
the engine were to run.

_If it then DOES run, do you want to scrap it?_

If i get the thing to drive, then yes i will still scrap it, or sell
it if someone who is mad turns up to buy it.
Because it is very rusty, and although i can make the lights and
wipers work easily and quickly, all the other things that need fixing
would take too much time and too much money to even consider.
The steering joints and suspension would be fine to drive to the
breakers, but would never pass an MOT test. They even fail these days
if the windscreen is scratched or chipped in the main area.
Damaged rubber joint shrouds are a failure too, but will still drive
to a breakers yard.

Regards, John


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi John,

I live in Michigan in the USA 

That vehicle could be taken to a scrap yard and get that much money. but typically people will pay more just to have the parts. 

We also have charities that will pick up vehicles at no charge and you can get a few bucks in tax credits. 

if you had to get a car towed it would cost probably $75-$150 US to do that.

Interesting how things are different here compared to where you live. Right now scrap steel is pretty high but there has always been some value to used cars regardless of the condition. If it is not something more than 15 years old. roughly. you did not mention the age of the vehicle you are speaking about??


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

its 'R' reg,
i will try to figure out what year(s) that is 

brb


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

that corresponds to 1997/1998

But its too rusty, i don't believe it.
It may be a re-register, i will check ...

brb


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i appear to have mislaid the paperwork for this vehicle,
it may be inside the vehicle.
i will check later.

John


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I have considered selling the parts .... i would even remove them and post them if it was
worth while, but i dont know if it would be, or if it would just be a waste of time.

John


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## Fred333 (Sep 17, 2007)

There might be some collectors out there that area looking for parts. So it might worth a look around the net.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Fred,
I am looking forward to getting that space back ....
tried again to move that crank, still no go,
Don't really want it hanging about - so its going
to the scrapyard, sorry - recyclers !

John


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## BanditFlyer (Oct 25, 2005)

john1 said:


> The reason i wanted to get the engine to run is that breakers (car
> scrap dealers) locally will give sixty pounds sterling (121 dollars)
> for a scrap vehicle if you drive it in. If they have to collect it,
> its much less.
> ...


Dude, that's a MINI! It's a collector car! You don't want to scrap _THAT_! Those are worth a lot nowadays!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi BanditFlyer,

That car in that picture is probably 'collectable' it doesn't look
very rusty, and its quite clean and tidy.
But that car in that picture is not the one in my garden, as i said
in that post, thats just a picture i found on google.

Its true i don't _wan't_ to scrap it, but around here they are
not worth much, especially in poor condition and a siezed crank.
And _possibly_ broken drop-gears (although i think they're fine)
but you can't be sure till you drive it or visually inspect them.

Its actually in my way however if you want it you are welcome to come
and take it away, i will even give you a cup of coffee.
I dont know whereabouts "BOT ?aH??T" is, a lot of your posts are
beteween ten in the evening and four in the morning (my time), so i
guess that you are probably not living in England.

Four to six hours hours Westwards would take me to probably the West
coast of America, or maybe inland a bit if you don't go to bed early.
You might of course live just along the way from me, but keep late
hours.

Montana? Nevada?
If not U.S. then maybe Canada,
anyway, they may be collectable over there, and worth some time and
trouble but here i'm afraid its not.

Heres a couple of pics of this one.

Regards, John


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hello john1 

I've been following your thread with interest as I used to be a mechanic.
From these recent pictures of the engine, I would suspect that corrosion of both the cylinder walls and the pistons are contributing to the locked up engine.
Even if you free up the crank and pistons, it's highly doubtful there would be enough compression to start the engine.

Piston ring seal would likely be almost nonexistent and since the valves look rusty, the valves probably won't seal , either.

My recommendation......don't put any more effort into making it run if you are getting rid of the car.


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## BanditFlyer (Oct 25, 2005)

Hi John,

Yeah, I'm on the West Coast of the US. Shame about that car. Those cylinders looks like a proctologist's nightmare. I'm guessing Stoner's right about not putting more effort into getting it running, although I don't know enough about mechanics to really be able to judge.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Stoner,

Ahaa, used to be a mechanic ay.
As you say, its all pretty corroded.
Yes its my opinion that the lack of movement in the crank is mainly
due to the pistons & rings becoming jammed to the cylinder walls.
I too have seen many engines in similar condition, some worse, some
not as bad. The other parts associated with the crank - ends, mains,
odd bits here and there, do not usually seize unless things are left
for decades.

This is the first time i have given up trying to free a seized engine,
and the reason for leaving it now is because it is going to be
scrapped anyway. If there were any sense in continuing, then i would
carry on removing bits until i did get it freed up.

On this particular engine the flywheel is fixed to the crank with a
single bolt and a woodruff type key. I can get a little rotary movement 
on the flywheel which i wondered about, but it seems this is just
distorting the keyway. This was after severe battering (in a rotary
direction) using large drifts and large hammers.

Usually after a severe battering, a little movement can be felt, which
can usually be worked back and forth, while adding lubricants, until
the crank is freed.
But not in this case, so far.

I wasn't looking for any degree of performance from this engine, but
i was hoping to start it, in order to drive it to a breakers yard.

I have been in touch with a breakers yard, they will not give me any
money for it, but they said they will take it away.
I will be contacting any other yards/recyclers that i can find, as i
have been told that most breakers will pay cash for scrap vehicles.

Regards, John


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Bandit Flyer,

So i guess you wont be popping round for a coffee then ?
Shame really, i was hoping you would tow it away,
to a better life of care and attention as befits the old thing.

Never mind, it can be recycled maybe into computer parts.

I am more than a little miffed that i am giving up on the engine.
Still, i gave it a good try.

Regards, John


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## shuazien (Sep 19, 2007)

no oil will not melt aluminium...


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