# What you dont like about Windows 8



## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I am mainly looking for input...I havent tried W8 at all so essentially know very little about it.
I am usually pretty fast to try out a new OS and accept the new technology ....but I failed to do such with W8.
From what little I have read some just dont like it....Change is often bad as people want familiarity so they dont seem lost on the new OS.
So with{un} familiarity aside ...I am interested more in its short comings such as useful functions lost if there are any.
Also is it multi tasking friendly.
I notice right away that the desktop is essentially gone as we know it and is filled with your business for everyone to see.
What navigation has changed, what user tools are missing etc...And while we are at it what improvements are present that may make it more secure etc


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## centrino207 (Aug 16, 2012)

Mostly it is Metro thing that turns most people of it ( not pretty or eye candy ) . Windows 8 GUI is very business like and not GUI for the home.

Don't know why Microsoft cannot make two OS one for business and one for the home.


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

The Desktop has not gone! It is one click away after arrival at the new start screen. This is being referred to, by Microsoft and users generally, as the new "Desktop". That it is not. It is graphical, and expanded, start menu. It is not particularly attractive and I live in hope that a third party, or Microsoft themselves, will allow us eventually a means to customise it's appearance.
It's presentation can, though, be fully customised. I am using mine fully as my new start menu. You old desktop is available, by default, on the new start interface - one click away. To return to what I call my start menu, is also one click back again, after using an app. In Windows 7 this could be two, or even three, clicks to get to a new app.
If all else fails you, there are several, increasing by the day, third party apps which will allow you to embed something similar to the old start menu.
The performance of Windows 8 is marginally better than Windows 7 in several areas. Not enough, imho, to warrant the purchase. It is primarily designed for future use on the ever increasing touch screens, and particularly portable devices with such.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I think I get it..It may be optimized for touch screens but is easy to get back to a familiar desktop.
So the desktop is still there {as we knew it} but they have added this tile setup as well....so nothing was lost ...the old desktop just doesn't show by default...is that accurate?.

I think I read somewhere that a DVD movie wont play with the media player....can this be confirmed?
I have heard some complaints of limited right click functionality.

It sounds like I can deal easily enough with the {additional} desktop but am more concerned with what features etc have been lost in 7


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> but am more concerned with what features etc have been lost in 7


If you've read some of the threads in this forum you know that there is the usual uproar, and probably more than usual, about changes that make life more difficult for us. And I'm not innocent in this regard.

However, the only major "loss" that I can think of at the moment is that the cost of Media Center will be borne by those who want and use it instead of being included in the price of every instance of Windows. Think we discussed it here somewhere, but since I did not find it I've included two links with some info.

Windows Media Center for Windows 8: How to Get it, What to do With It

Microsoft breaks down Windows 8's Media Center upgrade path, Dolby codec support


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## j0hnx777 (Aug 16, 2012)

The general usability of Windows 8 is terrible. I hate it and every IT pro I know hates it. Microsoft should know that if the professionals hate it, the general public won't buy it because it's the IT pros they ask recommendations for. Get rid of Metro UI


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I think there is a need to step in hastily, and add to Terry's post.
Do NOT try the hack which is floating around the web, with a serial number, to try and cheat Windows 8 into loading the media centre. It will load. It will also deactivate your copy of windows 8, and disable the CD key!


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

The loss of the media center wouldnt be a deal breaker...but I do hate online purchases in order to get the media center...big bummer..not because of what the cost will be just the hassle of the purchase online...would be nice if they could sell it on the shelf along with windows itself.

How is the mail app..similar to 7s app?
Networking setup easy?

Also it is my understanding the OS protects itself a little better but does it come at a cost such as some third party apps not working that would work on 7


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> How is the mail app..similar to 7s app?


One of the many nice things about Windows 7 is that there is no email client included. The Windows 8 mail app reminds me somewhat of (the really horrible) Windows Live Mail 2011, with the added "benefit" of only running full or 2/3 screen.



> Networking setup easy?


Was for me, but I suspect that any hiccups will be more difficult to diagnose than in previous versions of Windows.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I have 2009 mail on my 7 install which I find no better that the old outlook express TBO.
So far I havent heard anything yet that would give me reason to install 8 unless I wanted a little friendlier OS for a touch screen.
I prefer a mouse anyway as you dont have to hold your arm up all day to touch a screen....maybe not as cool but much easier on the shoulder.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

I have tried to keep an open mind about Windows 8. My current opinion is that it would be a mistake to spend a penny for it for a person who is already satisfied (or happy) with the given computer's current OS. But when/if I get a computer with it pre-installed I can configure it to the point that I can live with it, and probably most other people can too. In case you wonder about my actual actions I jumped at the chance to spend $49 to upgrade my Vista laptop to Windows 7, but was not interested in upgrading XP to Vista or 7.

If I may partially hijack your thead ...

What I find curious about pretty much every thread in this forum is the concentration on desktops with some mention of notebooks, but little to no recognition that there are also netbooks, and all three of those form factors are being overtaken by tablets and smart phones.

I have a touch screen tablet with Windows 7. On such a device, for my usage, Windows 8 may be a slight upgrade but won't fix my primary difficulties with it. But Windows 8 is not meant to compete with Windows 7 tablets ('cause there ain't many!). Anybody have any opinions or insights on how well people will like tablets with Windows 8 vs. iOS or Android? Or for smart phones (if Windows 8 makes it to this form factor)?


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Is the 7 on the tablet fully functional?..In other words will it do everything a desktop pc can.

Perhaps this 8 is just a way to get out there with something with touch in mind as to not appear to be behind in the market.

Maybe touchscreen PCs will be very popular in the upcoming months at the big box stores...they should be if 8 is going to be on em.

So now the question is...is it truly optimized for touch..or has it just been added on


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> Is the 7 on the tablet fully functional?..In other words will it do everything a desktop pc can.


Yes (within the constraints of 2 GB RAM and 32 GB SSD).


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Thats a pretty nice tablet then.
Is the touch a hindrance to use beyond basic web surfing?
For instance with a laptop I like a touchpad,but when I really get to business with several folder moves, copy any paste,editing etc I pull out the mouse.
And back to touch..my limited experience with touch beyond a phone is essentially an i-pad which I am not overly fond of.
As far as touch phones I tolerate and accept them and dont consider touch to be a bonus but rather just the way it is.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Producing content, including posting here, is difficult with a touch screen. I have experimented with it, but when I use the tablet for that I usually dock it with the included keyboard (which makes it a netbook with poor balance for lap use) and sometimes add a bluetooth or USB mouse. Could also add a USB keyboard and (HDMI) external monitor and turn it into a desktop.  OK, back to my experience with Windows 7 relying on touchscreen only.

My primary difficulties, in no particular order ...

a. Typing. Better than on the smaller iPod Touch and Kindle Fire, but still a hunt and peck process for me. Don't think there's really any fix for that.

b. "Clicking" the chosen menu item. Windows 8 will be easier because of the Start screen instead of the Start menu. But I don't think there is any help for menus in general. Seems to me an option to "double space" all menus would be a decent solution. With iOS you can pinch or whatever they call it to "magnify" the display, including menus. I can't do that with Windows 7 on my Acer tablet. Maybe with Windows 8 or newer Windows touchscreens?

c. Similar to (b) selecting the desired radio button when they are small. This particularly bothers me trying to hit the little "go to first new post" symbol at the beginning of a thread title in forums here.

d. Editing text. With a mouse or touchpad I set an insert point or select text, but can't do that with a touch screen. If I needed to could probably learn new techniques, but don't know if there are any special touchscreen ways of doing that.

So, the simple answer to your hindrance question is 'yes.'


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I am responding with a touch phone. the result .. I can't scroll up and down to see what you typed I have to go by memory here....and since it is short so will be this post. Smiley face inserted (here). 
It does appear the mouse rules for anything other than play ....but it appears as if Microsoft is giving in to this latest technology ....why can't they just make us use a mouse and like it.... sure we will have a choice I suppose but the new os is designed for touch in mind and us backwards folks can have the option of doing it the easy way with a mouse. I reckon I will never be cool and have children's blocks for a desktop inserts grin (here)


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

j0hnx777 said:


> _]The general usability of Windows 8 is terrible. I hate it and every IT pro I know hates it. Microsoft should know that if the professionals hate it, the general public won't buy it because it's the IT pros they ask recommendations for. Get rid of Metro UI_[/B]


What do you and the *"IT Pros you know*", hate?
Microsoft have not advertised the fact, strongly enough, that. in use, nothing is different, by alternative choice, from Windows 7.
As I said previously, one click puts you back on the familiar desktop. Working in here, I can see no major differences from Windows 7?
There are, already, as I previously stated, a flood of third party offerings, to enable a user to bypass the Metro start menu, and go straight to the familiar desktop. Whilst it remains a pity that MS did not re-establish the old start menu, there are, also, several excellent third party programs around to reinstate this, also.
As Terry said, the only major loss (insignificant imo) is that we now have to purchase the media centre.
Microsoft are looking at the competition and moving forward. They have delivered us an OS with twin functionality - even fourfold. We can have a touch screen on our tablets, or on our stationaries, and use the Metro (ugly as it seems to me!). Or we can not even bother with touchscreens, and continue working in the way to which we are accustomed.
For Aka'.
So far (there may be an optimisation trick available, but I haven't yet found it, I have been unsuccessful in getting a movie to play with the media player. This hasn't been an issue with me until I read your post, as I have always used third party media programs, since XP.

My thoughts are with Terry on the use of a touch screen. Maybe there will be some kind of change, but I cannot see the advantage, for example, in a touch screen for a secretary/typist, in using it. Again, my low computer budget will probably prohibit me from ever owning a touchscreen, so it is not a priority issue.
From my own point of view, my particular, and modest, use of my PC, prohibits me, until it is modified, from using Metro apps in full screen, when I am multi-tasking.

As an aside, a couple of posts here mentioning Windows Live mail, or of not even using it. Maybe it should be the subject of another thread, but what (quoteTterry!) do you find "*Really horrible*" with it.
I was an earlier Beta tester on the product, so maybe I am a little biased, but I use the desktop standalone as my primary, with three hotmail accounts included in it. I find it does everything an Email program could be expected to do? But, getting back to Terry's post, "there is no Email client incuded" in Windows 7. Well, there is in Windows 8, of course, but it is not obligatory and, if you wish, you can even uninstall it.

P.S. Just been browsing on the intriguing subject of the media player. Can anyone confirm that this did NOT work, in the later media player releases, even in Windows 7. That is the story I am reading. It seems to be a problem of MS not wishing to pay royalties for every copy of windows (7 or 8) that is used, for the extra progs needed.
But:
PPS. This over long post needs a "bottom line" from me.
Windows 8 offers a small overall performance improvement. IMHO, this "improvement", would not warrant the opening of your wallets to upgrade. Even more so, for companies planning multi purchase.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I usually find myself sticking up for Microsoft..They made the computer easy,even such for grandma.
They are constantly under attack by crooks that write trojans etc or find a hole in the operating system.
Patches are handed out accordingly and the AV vendors are just a little behind
Windows is still a fairly durable OS{I assume 8 is the same way} and it takes alot to kill it.
It seems that is wasnt that long ago that people were arguing they should have left Windows 98 alone.
From gatherings in this thread w8 is merely under attack as many of the prior OSs have been.
We always lose a little something we like or find a new "feature" a hindrance with a new OS.
I am not seeing anything major as far as usability is concerned...just a little stuff in my way that can be worked around by settings or an additional mouse click.
Perhaps it is a little clunky looking at present or appears to be more fitting for middle school as far as appearance is concerned,but the function is there. I have heard no complaints about it not functioning as designed.
Would it make my life easier?...probably not..but the average user probably so.
How about a first time pc user?...I would have to say touch would be easier as it takes a few miles with a mouse to become smooth with it...but as far as touch screen..well we know where our finger is going.

I am very happy with 7 but see no gain for me that would be made with 8 as I am a mouse guy.
Also I am not interested in tiles per say....I think they are essentially widgets which I really dont use anyway
At the moment I have 9 apps pinned to my task bar any can be opened without going back to the desktop...I added the quick launch back to 7 which I have a few shortcuts to apps..it really doesnt get much easier than that IMO...O yes..there is the old start menu for the less used apps.

I dont see how 8 could get me to where I want to be on my PC any faster or easier ...except for the fast boot time


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## batscrptmod200 (May 17, 2012)

I use android 2.2 on my samsung gem to view this forum my experIence with touchscreen has killed productivity by a lot


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

kevin2s said:


> In windows 8 there is a new feature of security and IIS which were not at good in Windows 7


Thanks,
I found the following link which goes into detail somewhat about the security enhancements for W8
There appears to be a few and W8 is is more than just a cosmetic work over of the GUI

Well worth the read for anyone who takes security seriously

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/what-windows-8-has-done-to-improve-security/8269

One thing did stand out in the article which is a cause of concern however is as


> Metro apps are also safer than traditional Windows apps, because like any modern smartphone, they are each run inside their own sandbox. That means these apps cannot access the whole system like traditional apps could, and there are more checks being done against them. *Also because Metro apps will all be sold exclusively through the Microsoft store*, the company will be able to check them before they get onto users machines


Sold being the main word above.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> Sold being the main word above.


How so? Like apps sold exclusively through the Apple or Amazon store some will be sold for free and some others for very little. One of the free apps I "bought" recently for my Kindle Fire even came with a $1 bonus good for an MP3 song download or towards an album purchase.  Don't know if the Microsoft Store will have any promotions like that.


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

Windows is still the best alternative there is out there, especially for the average user. I will definately by pass metro in 8. MS could have at least made metro more attractive. I have been using Linux Mint just to try it out, very nice, but not for the average user. I will have Win 8 on one computer as soon as it's released (had the preview), but will be sticking with 7 on my others, at least for a while.
The only thing I didn't like was metro, there are free alternatives to media player.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> Windows is still the best alternative there is out there, especially for the average user.


Microsoft is sure hoping that you are correct. 

What are your key reasons for saying that Windows is better than iOS and Android for the average tablet and smart phone user?


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

Maybe I wasn't clear, best for PC's.


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## batscrptmod200 (May 17, 2012)

I think microsoft definitely got security right encryption and decryption by the drive controller


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

TerryNet said:


> How so? Like apps sold exclusively through the Apple or Amazon store some will be sold for free and some others for very little. One of the free apps I "bought" recently for my Kindle Fire even came with a $1 bonus good for an MP3 song download or towards an album purchase.  Don't know if the Microsoft Store will have any promotions like that.


Its states that metro apps will be sold exclusively through the metro store....this will limit consumer choices and will effect price.
Rather than price being determined by competition{market} it will be based upon how much the consumer is willing to pay


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## good grief (Aug 26, 2007)

It didn't limit my choices, when I installed and successfully ran VLC media player in Windows 8, albeit in a virtual box. There are many programmes which will not be available from the Metro store which will be required by businesses, so I doubt MS is going to prevent people installing anything _*other*_ than Metro apps.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Thanks, Brett.

*good grief,* is VLC media player a "Metro App"? I think that Microsoft is continuing their campaign of confusing terminology with "app." They seem to be calling all applications or programs an "app,", but a "Metro App" is one that only appears on the Start screen (Metro GUI), is capable of showing "live content" and only runs full screen or 1/3 or 2/3 screen. I think I read that Firefox, while it runs fine in Windows 8, will not be allowed to be a "Metro App." I guess that supports Brett's point.


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## Cody24 (Jun 29, 2011)

Clicking on the network icon in the system tray brings up all your networks.. but it takes up the whole right side of your screen and it's background is blue.. the icons look so dumb. 

I have about 30 different VPN networks setup so every time I need to tweak or look at something I have to go to the very top right corner to mess with the network that I'm connected to.


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## good grief (Aug 26, 2007)

@ TerryNet,

By my post, I intended to convey that it isn't *only* Metro apps which can be installed and run on Windows 8, and therefore there are still choices on apps/programmes which can be used.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

good grief said:


> @ TerryNet,
> 
> By my post, I intended to convey that it isn't *only* Metro apps which can be installed and run on Windows 8, and therefore there are still choices on apps/programmes which can be used.


That's what I awkwardly tried to convey also.  Thanks.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

So in essence any metro apps are purely up to MS as to what is available ...and also whether free or how much it will cost.
This is a pretty tight control of the new desktop..."Here is what you can have and will like it"
Granted it wont interfere with the everyday non MS apps, it is a strict control however of this new desktop...While not a deal breaker it is a disappointment.
Perhaps they are afraid someone will create a metro app without the highly colorful tile theme..or perhaps they are reserving tamer colors for the future......Sorry FF but orange has already been reserved for future use


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## davehc (Oct 4, 2006)

I am not a lawyer. In fact, the legalise ties me in knots. But I do believe, when I read the officialdom on Metro, that TEch republic and others, are drawing a wrong conclusion. As I read authorative, relative pages, I understand that Metro apps can be written, and offered to the public, from any source. The difference appears to be that if you submit the source to Microsoft, they can approve it and, with your permission, include it in the "Store" and promote it - a big "perk" with their immense resources.. Nothing prevents you from offering it outside of the store, however.
As I said, I have difficulty trying to untangle legalese, but that is how I read it here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694058.aspx

It also seems to have some support for my view here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh974576.aspx

In the event, I believe Microsoft may have to reword the whole contract, as they have now been required to drop the term "Metro". Any decent lawyer will quickly weave a web around that one!


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## good grief (Aug 26, 2007)

I think also, as I was reading yesterday, the intention with the Metro apps or whatever they will now be called, is to improve security measures, as explained here:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/what-windows-8-has-done-to-improve-security/8269

Again, the choices aren't limited to the new apps alone, as the SmartScreen filter can be turned on and off. If the information provided in this article is correct (someone with more knowledge than me may be able to confirm or refute that), then it seems to me that the new way of approaching apps/programmes is a significant improvement security-wise.

Looking at it in this light, it seems to be similar to having a Warrant of Fitness (don't know what it's called in the States or elsewhere, but I mean a certificate of road-worthiness) for your car, to ensure the safety of others.


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## ImagingGuy2015 (Feb 14, 2008)

I like to complain about MS alot. But after trying out the win8 OS for a while on an old P4 with little RAM or processing power I have to admit i was a bit impressed. I hooked up a usb touchbox and was even happier. 

Im no MS guru but without reading a single guide I was able to do anything I needed to with setting up a network connection, sharing some files on a domain, installing 3rd party software etc. seems as easy as winxp or 7, though I do remember having to launch some things from the run command as I could not find them in a quick manner. The compatibility mode seems to have been enhanced as some ancient programs my office used from the 90s installed and ran OK. These same programs I cannot get to run properly in win7 for the life of me.

I am assuming for gamers having an OS which takes up less resources should be a plus. 

pretty sure the main focus for the OS is to have improved usability for tablets which are lightweight as far as hardware goes and considering I was running it on hardware that is worse than your average tablet it seemed pretty stable and fun to use.

but to agree with what others have said, its nice, but unless you are buying a new pc/tablet/laptop with the OS included there is no real reason to upgrade from win7 at this point IMO. Things may change when win7 stops getting updates, newer directx etc. but for now and the foreseeable future im happy with 7.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

aka Brett, don't you have a spare drive to throw Windows 8 onto?

For anyone who wants to try it out (ON A SPARE computer or drive) go here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview

In case you miss it on the screen the Product Key: TK8TP-9JN6P-7X7WW-RFFTV-B7QPF

You can use it until Jan of 2013.

The final version of Windows 8 desktop looks bad... while it looks fine in the preview version. 

There are lots of things to LIKE about Windows 8. But the two UIs are jarring... they don't belong together.
I think its stupid when the fanboys says "People don't Windows 8 because of change" - no that is not it. For the majority, improvements are already good. Look at how many of us are using MIXed OSes in our lives? Am I complaining about my Android phone or iPad tablet being used with my Windows 7 computers? Who here or knows anyone who is having trouble dealing with owning *A/I/W/M *systems? (Android/iOS/Windows/Mac) Anyone?

The problem with Win8 is that nothing has been changed for the better. The BS reason "not many people are using the Start menu" - is plain stupid. So then they make a START SCREEN that they want you to use a LOT?! The Start Menu holds everything... we pin the most used items on our taskbar or desktop. With Windows 8, your whole screen is a start-menu(screen - it even says "start") with mostly useless live tiles. Why are they useless?

Unless you are on your start screen, you can't see the tiles. Its a launcher... that is to be covered up by fulls-screen apps?! Imagine trying to troubleshoot something in METRO while the info is in a browser?

There are many design NO-NOs with having the desktop/Metro setup... and that is why Windows 8 sucks. I've already told my clients to NOT BUY Windows 8. I don't know anyone personally who has spent 10 minutes with Win8... who want it. I've been using Windows7 as my PRIMARY OS since it was RC, months before RTM.

*I understand WHY Microsoft is making Metro their primary interface... it makes sense. * MS is so very late to the tablet game, WindowsOS is very rapidly becoming irrelevant to most people (Yes, the Windows market can collapse) as more of us realize we DON'T NEED microsoft. Remember A/i/W/M above? (I'll rename it AWiM - its smoother). I can enjoy the web on my 10" iPad as much as my 24" LCD Win7... other than typing out a lot of stuff. I can relax, use it anywhere in my home... the way I CANNOT with a notebook or desktop. (Yes, this means the toilet - which even Steve Jobs commented on). Most computer users NEVER understood the PC OS... they just need a browser and access to email and IM, maybe a word processor. Notice how MS-Office today is now $125 compared to $350+? Why? Open Office is free... but the need for MSOffice is also going down... other than business in the USA.
Game consoles, including the XBOX kills the PC as a gaming system... most games are for consoles. So, think about this... "Why do I need a Microsoft Windows Computer for?" Can Android or iOs or MacOs or even Liunx do the things you need? If the answer is yes... Windows goes bye bye. if you are a TECHIE person, then Windows8 is below your skill level... Linux becomes far more attractive. (Again, gaming is no longer important) Linux is free. So, Microsoft is targeting the typical "idiot" user with a UI that is easy, simple... and that they can control. The end goal is: Kill Windows on their terms. Windows 8 is supposed to be the last "Windows OS"... take that to the bank. So for the novice "idiot" the notebook, the tablet and phone with Win8/metro is the same and such customers will love it. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'll simply go Linux/Android. I understand WHY MS needs to do it... I don't like it and I don't have to go along.

*Why Windows 8 sucks?*
- Its ugly... its so 1980s... even in desktop, the UI of AERO is gone... its now ugly flat mono color UI elements.
- Making change for sake of change is stupid. Its still a fight to click on the HIDDEN start button or the charms.
- "We took out the Start button" - NO THEY DIDN'T, they HID the damn thing. Now its a much smaller target. Oh, you are supposed to go to Mouse then keyboard then mouse? (hence, ITS BLOODY STUPID) Imagine you're in desktop and you have to launch something that is not pinned to your task bar or its in Metro... you have to let go of your mouse to press Windows Key to get to metro OR dig-around for the start button or dig around for the metro-task switcher if it applies.

- Yep, Tasks in metro don't show up at all unless you hit the charm, the Desktop programs only show when you are on the desktop. *What idiot came up with this crap?!* Worse, are the idiots who approve this!

- They force you to use Metro... it is inter-twined... its strong arm-tactics. yes, many of us know that YOU can install 3rd party tools to add a Start Menu (Classic / XP or Win7) - but MOST PEOPLE won't know it... and its a hack job. During the install on Win8, a choice is all that is needed.

*How I would have done this* (I talked about this with someone else and its what we came up up). The Metro interface would be in the Start Menu (left side) and look like WP7... your mouse wheel would go up and down... making more sense. The right-side menu would look the same as Windows7. Hitting ALL PROGRAMS would be old Win7 style we all know. When you run a METRO APP, it would run on top of the desktop (in a window) and the normal Win7 UI close button would work. Those same apps would be FULL screen on tablets and phones.

The skin of Win8 should look like the RP version... clean, not boring or ugly that we see today.

Simple solution that would have made most people happy.

To buy Windows 8, even to NOT use it - Microsoft can check that as a GOOD SALE. 
By not buying or using Windows 8, we punish Microsoft... especially if we go to Linux or MacOS and never look back.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I have my drives a little tight on space ...I could come up with the space,but another issue I have is my ISP {satellite} 
A big down load would make me crowd my cap....as well as get hit with the throttle...getting throttled on satellite is no fun.
At the moment it is about 15 percent faster than what I pay for...so I will be a good little boy..and let em keep the others throttled 

W8 doesn't sound like it would benefit me...although extra security is always welcome....Right now my 7 is set up nice and easy for what I use it for...W8 would only extra navigation for me from what I am gathering in this thread...Your post is very informative :up: and confirms that W8 isnt going to have any advantages I want..so there is no need for me to jump on the cheap upgrade price that has been announced....A large part of why I created this thread


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

2.5GB is not so large  LinuxMint is only 780~870MB depending on version you choose.

Well, if Windows8 was done RIGHT (no METRO or Options to NOT use it) - then it would be a good replacement (not upgrade) for Windows7. Rather than an AVOID OS...

Replacement = get it when you buy a new PC / do a clean install.
Upgrade = Makes major improvements over a previous version.

Windows98 and 7 were Must-haves. WinXP wasn't a must-have because Win98 market share and stability was high. I didn't go to XP until 2004. (XP ran games and software faster than Win98 - my own tests)

Satellite? Guess you're out in the boonies...


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Looks like I will continue to run 7 and skip over 8...unless I buy a new pc later on that has 8 ..then will just deal with it for a while or put 7 on it if need be or go linux
I tried mint a year or two ago...{as it has been mentioned alot}...not bad at all,looked good and everything worked
I was playing with Studio Ubuntu in the past as well...also looked good and everything worked.
Also no hassle with being able to play certain media types.
I would probably choose one of them over 8 {cant say for sure as I havent used 8}...but IMO I would happier with it for common usage and still have two windows PCs for instances where one has to have windows


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## ETech7 (Aug 30, 2012)

That it's not available yet.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> unless I buy a new pc later on that has 8 ..then will just deal with it for a while or put 7 on it if need be or go linux


Great! That gives me an opening to jump in here again. 

I've been thinking about the (high) probability that I will want a new PC sometime in the next three years (before the hoped for fix for "Vista II"). Makes sense to wait and get the new hardware designs, no matter what form factor (laptop, tablet, ...) I decide on but the Secure Boot has me concerned.

My understanding is that any PC sold with Windows 8 will have to have the new UEFI (BIOS replacement) with Secure Boot enabled. It is also my understanding that some UEFIs will include an option to disable Secure Boot. With Secure Boot disabled it should be just as easy as now to boot an older Windows, the next Windows, a Linux distribution or any "rescue" or partitioning disk. With Secure Boot enabled I would have to hope that my desired boot was "blessed" by Microsoft or the OEM, or do some complex messing with a "Certificate" and "keys" (and I'm not sure that's even possible post development stage).

So, my thinking is that I will want to know before purchasing if Secure Boot can be disabled. I wonder how easy that will be to discover.

Dell has a list of their computers that can be bought now and later upgraded to Windows 8. They advise to disable Secure Boot before the upgrade (apparently in case the graphics card is locked out by Secure Boot). But neither they nor HP nor Acer yet say anything about UEFI or Secure Boot w.r.t. their new offerings beginning later this year.

Comments? Corrections? Advice (other than to buy now  )?


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

TerryNet said:


> Great! That gives me an opening to jump in here again.
> 
> I've been thinking about the (high) probability that I will want a new PC sometime in the next three years (before the hoped for fix for "Vista II"). Makes sense to wait and get the new hardware designs, no matter what form factor (laptop, tablet, ...) I decide on but the Secure Boot has me concerned.
> 
> ...


 I am glad you jumped back in..this secure boot could be an actual problem..{not the usual whines we have when MS comes out with a new OS}

I am hoping that the ability to disable is available on all....if not I can see this being a major issue....a far larger issue than the actual OS itself {which is essentially just a matter of getting used to}

If it comes down to it...One can always build his own rig I suppose....but would be kinda hard to build ones own tablet or laptop.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

All this mess with Windows 8 and Secure Boot... I'm going Linux.

Never pay $100~150 to upgrade again. I will buy an extra copy of Win7 to last me a few years... I'm done with MS.


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## ETech7 (Aug 30, 2012)

Now it's more like $40...


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Where do you get this $40 figure from?


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

Compiler - http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

I was being facetious...


> Never pay $100~150 to upgrade again


 - refers to NEVER paying for the OS again - as I made a reference to Linux. I should made more clear "upgrades or new builds" When you buy an Upgrade version of Windows, its only supposed to go on a single computer.

The second part, the $40~70 price is not the Upgrade price. Its the promotional upgrade price to get people to buy it... which means its that bad and even MS is sweating a little bit. Was 98, XP, Vista or Win7 sold this way? No... the closes was a $150 family pack Home Edition ($50 each).

After Jan 2013, Win8Pro goes back to its actual upgrade price: $150. Hence, its not a $40 upgrade. Its promotional.

The mess that always comes with new Windows versions are not an issue in Linux. Read the blog on that link above.
People are asking what and how they can upgrade, what they cannot do. What qualifies, etc.

While Linux has its own challenges with games (lack of), printer drivers and 3D-Game card driver support (but most people use consoles now and printing is no longer high on peoples lists - but my Canon Printer is on the list) - when it comes to clean install or upgrades... its a non-issue.

Upgrade / clean-install - $0. No key to lose. No phone number to call and beg for re-activation. No calling home.

* One thing that Windows (and Mac) has over Linux... is in-place upgrade. Its touch-and-go on Linux because techies could and do make modifications to the OS that can break in-place upgrade. So its recommended to do a clean install (which forces the user to backup their data - FOR SURE).


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## Dude044 (Dec 23, 2004)

I dont know what it is with microsoft make a fairly good os them throw out a lemom ie 98 good ME bad Vista not good XP good Win 7 great I downloaded an official version of win 8 from microsoft i hate it maybe it works good on tablet or laptop but on my pc i wont be using it


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## Simulated (Sep 14, 2006)

My desktop has windows xp pro sp3 and my laptop has windows 7. I like windows 7 however I can't play any of my older pc games on windows 7 at all. KOTOR will install, but won't run and KOTOR 2 will run. I have several other older games that won't run on 7 either. That is why I'm still running xp on my desktop. I won't even bother with windows 8 if it's as bad as it sounds.


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## flozzi (Sep 18, 2012)

It's the overall feel, and look of Win8 that turns me off. The fact that it's not necessarily an improvement of the OS that I grew to love (well, deal with), is too much for me. Windows Vista was horrible, but looked really clean and sleek. So they took the functionality and simplicity of XP, the modern look from Vista, and added a bunch of advanced tweaks to Windows 7 and made a really nice OS. Now with Windows 8 it looks like they're bringing back a lot of unnecessary, aesthetic changes, similar to what they did with Vista. Except this time, I don't even like the appearance. Windows 8 looks like a windows phone on my PC. And the losing the task bar that basically has made windows what windows is for a lot of casual users, seems like a bad idea.

I don't want my operating system to look like a cheesy flash program.
I'll be sticking to Windows 7 on my main machine for now, but I'll definitely give Windows 8 a shot on some other builds I have laying around. I'll keep an open mind and see what happens.

edit: A lot of people said it looks really good on tablets... i don't care about tablets. I like my PC looking like a PC.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

The new WP8 phones from Nokia and HTC look very good - at least in the press-release photos, in which the color of the tiles match the body. It makes them look sharp. Of course, if you have a yellow-body phone, the purple colored tales won't look so good.

I've had my Android 4.0 phone for almost a week, for the most part - I'm very very happy with it. Some few changes seem/are stupid. I no longer feel the need to replace my Android 2.x interface with the WP7 which I used for almost 2 years... the option is still there, may do it for fun.

Flozzi, I'll give MS point for trying something different... technically - they kind of need to do something like this. I'm looking at the big picture... but in my opinion - I think they failed in their execution with the strong arm tactics and piss-poor quality of visuals. Windows 8 is butt-ugly, I don't want it. I also don't want anything to do with Apple.


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## lili5689 (Jun 10, 2011)

The main disadvantage is lies in the working, the system is reboot several times (especially for 30 min)
No antivirus for the windows 8 only windows firewall and internet security
Apps works only in the full monitor by occupying the full face of the monitor
No side apps can be run will we are using the apps
And my recommendation is to run the windows 8 consumer preview in another (dual boot), because it has many problem in it and if the windows 8 release stick to it, until you should be struck in windows 7 or windows xp


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

lili5689 said:


> The main disadvantage is lies in the working, the system is reboot several times (especially for 30 min)
> No antivirus for the windows 8 only windows firewall and internet security
> *Apps works only in the full monitor by occupying the full face of the monitor*
> No side apps can be run will we are using the apps
> And my recommendation is to run the windows 8 consumer preview in another (dual boot), because it has many problem in it and if the windows 8 release stick to it, until you should be struck in windows 7 or windows xp


No window cascading?..So if I had a browser like Firefox open it has to run full screen ..I cant leave a window out to the side a little?...to make switching back and forth easy


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Metro runs like a tablet/phone OS. There is NO resizing of windows, no overlay, no cascading... at best, if allowed - you can run in 1/3 screen mode. In which 1 metro app is 2/3rds the screen (A browser) and some IM maybe on the right side 1/3. That is it.

Fine for a tablet... lame for anything else.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

Thats a deal breaker for me then ..its like a step backward not forwards


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

Lets take a look down memory lane...

What Metro makes me kind of think: (Windows 1.0)








(The windows could NOT overlap each other)

Windows 2.0 = wow overlapping... look at all that white.









Windows 3.0 = First GUI launcher that worked... somewhat:









Now compare ALL that white UI to MS-Office 2013 running on Windows 8:








(what brain dead idiot came up with THAT idea?!)

See why I and others have little faith in MS? So much that is so wrong.

Moving on: Windows 98 (Win95 is MS first consumer GUI OS)









In case you forgot old faithful:









This is WHAT I grew up with in the 80s:
GEOS in 1986








(Back then we had an excuse)

What I had in 1990:


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## black-wolf (Aug 8, 2008)

> Apps works only in the full monitor by occupying the full face of the monitor
> No side apps can be run will we are using the apps


If you go to the desktop mode you can have multiple apps open and size them like you always could.

The problem here is just as everyone has said it's designed for tablets not for desktops. I think MS has lost their minds.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> If you go to the desktop mode you can have multiple apps open and size them like you always could.


Yes; what the man said! 

The occasional times that I boot to Windows 8 I click on the Desktop App and then can live in desktop mode for hours. I can even think of the things I'm running as applications or programs or software instead of "Apps." 

The major differences I've found between running Windows 8 in desktop mode and Windows 7 are

a. No gadgets in Windows 8;

b. The windows look "boxy" and have no transparency;

c. Instead of the Start Menu need to use the Start screen ("Metro") (or sometimes the Power Menu) or a third party start menu. The pros and cons of these have been discussed a lot here.

d. The included Defender is not the previous lame useless anti-spyware, but is actually Microsoft Security Essentials renames; there is no need to download MSE because it is included with the alias "Defender."

e. (reserved for whatever I forgot)

IMO gadgets and transparency aren't needed, but I became used to them and miss them. (c) is stupid but I can live with it. (d) is a good thing except for the confusing name change.


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## Compiler (Oct 11, 2006)

But gadgets are more useful than live-icon er tiles on a desktop system.
Oh, MS pulled gadgets from Windows7.... from their site anyway.

Like I said, the Win8 desktop skin in build ver. 8400 was perfect. Toned down from Win7. Then someone at MS went full retard.


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