# Can you really use a Mac in a Windows World?



## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

It has been five years since I bought a new system, so I imagine things have changed. Maybe it is not as much a Windows world as it used to be? Five years ago, I wouldn't have even considered buying a non windows pc. Pretty much compatibility issues would have been my perception of it then. Now, after all the security problems that have developed, I am tired of a pc that will allow anyone to put anything on my computer without my knowing it. From what I have read, a Mac does better with that than a win/pc. True?

I have done some initial looks into a Mac. At first glance they are expensive, first and foremost. But after figuring out what specs I want and adding in warranty etc., the win/pc is not that far off. Then, we are checking if an apple will allow us to have remote access to the office and that is not looking so good right now. 

What I would really like to know, is if I switch to an apple say from a dell, what could be possible pitfalls, surprises, drawbacks? Am I going to be able to buy software for it anywhere besides through the Apple Store? Can I use Firefox with it? Do I still have to have virus protection? Do I still have to use spyware scans like Adaware? Can I download and use free office programs without conflicts? 

Basically what to expect to change? 
Any mac users that used to be window pc users, that remember what was different?

Thanks very much...
adam


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

adamm321 said:


> From what I have read, a Mac does better with that than a win/pc. True?


Yes.



> But after figuring out what specs I want and adding in warranty etc., the win/pc is not that far off. Then, we are checking if an apple will allow us to have remote access to the office and that is not looking so good right now.


First, I wouldn't get the extended warranty _unless_ it's a laptop. As far as remote viewing goes yes you can do that quite easily. Simply look into "remote desktop" which is part of Leopard. If you need high-end professional solution then you can always use this, but it's generally for big businesses. The built-in app is usually all most people need 



> if I switch to an apple say from a dell, what could be possible pitfalls, surprises, drawbacks? ]


The only drawback is that you'll want to kick yourself in the butt for not doing it sooner  As far as surprises go, you'll have plenty of those. Everyday you'll be surprised at how great a computer can really be. For a more specific answer you'll need to give us a more specific use for the new computer. All in all though, you'll be _really_ glad that you made the switch 



> Am I going to be able to buy software for it anywhere besides through the Apple Store?


Yes. Years and years ago it was scarce, but these days there is actually every bit as much as any other platform. The best thing is that it often times costs less, and it will work much better than PC software. This is because Apple makes sure that it integrated better.



> Can I use Firefox with it?


Yes, but you'll probably end up using Safari 3.0 with it because it is much better than Firefox. Firefox is however much better than IE.



> Do I still have to have virus protection?


*NO!* Not only will you be wasting your money, but your computer will not run as smoothly.



> Do I still have to use spyware scans like Adaware?


*NO!* See above 



> Can I download and use free office programs without conflicts?


Not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean can you download programs that are like Office? If so then yes, but you'd be better off getting iWork '08.



> Any mac users that used to be window pc users, that remember what was different?


There is no shortage of these  Once you go Mac, you never go back 

Keep in mind that if you get an Intel version of a Mac (_all new Macs are Intel_) then you can use BOTH windows and Mac programs at the same time. There are MANY good sites that can help you make the transition, including the Apple site. Check here. There's also a new site that's from some Mac experts who want to help ex-PC users, but it's not completed just yet. Hopefully soon. The best thing that I can recommend is for you to pick up a copy of "_Mac OS X Leopard - The missing manual_". It's VERY easy reading, and has a ton of great tips for those new to Mac. You can find it here (_bookpool generally has much better prices than amazon_). If you are worried about if specific file types will be compatible then simply post which ones, but generally you should be good to go and on your way from the moment that you first turn your new Mac on


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Flashback....thanks very much for taking the time to answer my many questions. Well, you have already surprised me. I didn't think I could go without virus software, adaware etc. I didn't think I would not even need Firefox. Interesting. Well, I had some negative surprises today too. Someone on another thread gave me a link to an article about reliable PCs and here is the link...

http://www.infotoday.com/linkup/lud100104-goldsborough.shtml

Somewhere toward the end it mentions that it is only recently that Apple has been getting good reviews for tech support and they were perennially being criticized for poor performance in that area. I was surprised at that. Here were some of the pitfalls they suggested in the article...

"Another trend that's clear is that despite its tiny market share compared with Windows PCs, the Apple Macintosh warrants consideration if you value reliability. As always, however, the Mac comes with trade-offs.

Though it's easier than ever for Mac users to share files with Windows users, it's not always smooth sailing. Also, Mac users have always had fewer choices in software, although the Mac covers all the major bases.

Finally, the Mac comes with a price premium. On the other hand, as with many things, you get what you pay for."

So thanks very much and I will be back when I have more specific questions.

adam


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

adamm321 said:


> I didn't think I could go without virus software, adaware etc.


Yes, you do not need it. In the past 3 years I have spent nearly 300.00 for PC software relating to antivirus products, and have had to get rid of around 45 viruses. In that same amount of time I have spent 0.00 for Mac anti-virus software, and have received 0 viruses.



> Somewhere toward the end it mentions that it is only recently that Apple has been getting good reviews for tech support and they were perennially being criticized for poor performance in that area.


That sounds more like just their 'opinion' than fact. They did not back anything up with facts. Some of what they said I know for a fact is incorrect. For example, they claim "Though it's easier than ever for Mac users to share files with Windows users, it's not always smooth sailing." yet they give no solid examples. Over the years I know of not one single person who has not been able to use their old files on their new Mac. The article also 'claims' that Mac software is limited, and this is flatly _not true_. Infact, just the opposite.

Quoting this article:



> "For people who haven't tried it recently, the most surprising thing about the Mac in 2007 is that software is simply not a problem. Most average Windows users have no idea how rich a software base the Mac has grown in recent years."


Here is another good article about software for the new Macs:



> "There are a lot of misconceptions about the Mac. What's absolutely the worst one, though, is that there's no software for it."


Not only that, but there is now very good software being made for the Mac that_ isn't_ made for the PC. A great program called Art Text is one such example. Since Macs now use Intel chips many things have changed for the better, and one of those things is that now there is a ton of great software available for it. Another good example is iWork '08 which replaces programs like Office. You get *3* world class programs with it, a program like word called Pages, a professional spreadsheet program called Numbers, and a program called Keynote which replaces powerpoint. Now let's compare pricing; office costs around 400.00 for the upgrade version, iWork 08 (_the FULL version_) costs _only_ 79.00, and you get 3 great programs with it_ (so really closer to around 25.00 for each program_). That's an incredible deal, and there are many other good examples like that for Mac software also.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi Flashback....

That is pretty impressive that you have had no viruses! So, you surf the net, with just Safari, you don't use Firefox, do you download any photos or music? Does Safari have the ability to be customized like Firefox does? I am using my daughter's new MacBook and have not figured that out yet. 

The MacBook is not enough machine for me though. I am not satisfied with the screen resolution. I had a 1600x1200 on my Dell and there is a noticeable difference. Or maybe it's more than just the screen resolution. I don't know what kind of graphics card/processor it had. The screen on the MacBook is also too small. I had the 15". It is pretty expensive to consider going up to the MacBook Pro. Almost $3,000. without the extended warranty or iWork or Adobe PHotoshop that I want too. Maybe even some other things.

I am thinking that some things about Firefox I would miss. What I used Firefox for, was also to block ads on websites, they had an add on that allowed me to color code my tabs, there was an add on that allowed me to have a ton of bookmarks across the top of the browser window right under the tool bar, that I could see the actual icons for the websites. It also allowed me to change skins to have a different look to the browser when I got tired of it...and to use jumbo size icons, since I have glasses but still like to see larger icons and fonts. Of course there are things about Firefox I wouldn't miss too, I suppose. Not a lot though. It worked trouble free for me for the past two years for free. How can you beat that?

I definitely dislike IE, so on Apple, is Safari the only browser choice?

As for the article I linked to, yes, I see your point that they didn't give specific enough facts, but I thought the information they were reporting came from surveys of owners of machines?

Mac Software....so there is a lot of software. Do you have to purchase it directly from Apple? Can you find any let's say on Newegg.com? 

Thank you for the link to that article. I do agree with the conclusions of the authors. I think that is one of the reasons I am more curious about Apple. I really didn't want a machine that was so incompatible with all the people I knew who had windows. You just don't want to pass an act of Congress to share files. etc. Now that they are making that easier, I am more interested. 

Do I understand correctly that they are creating a Microsoft Office for Mac 2008, or is it available already? So you used iWork and compared it to Office? I see here I have the Numbers software trial edition on her MacBook but I haven't had enough time to figure out how to work it yet. I do have spreadsheets from Microsoft Works that I tried to transfer to her machine, but I can't open them. I am assuming it is because I haven't registered the Numbers software yet. 

In their discussion of the software Parallels Desktop, is that something that is already installed on the Mac or do you have to buy it separately?

In the article, he points out that The Mac is a closed hardware/software system. That the hardware and software have been selected and matched to work well together. So what happens if you don't like something about the Mac software? If you really prefer the way a windows application did something? If you are trying to change the software or add a new software to the mix, is that going to throw a monkey wrench into this carefully constructed hardware/software mix?

Very interesting story of how this Reviewer switched to Apple. I agreed with everything he had to say in this article. I also am going to read the 3 part story about how he experienced the switch that was linked to in another article linked to at the bottom of this article. Thanks very much for the link. 

I haven't read the second link yet.

One thing that does worry me, I have read a few posts on the Apple forum here and some were talking about how difficult it is to work inside the case. The article you linked to, also spoke of how Macs can be more difficult to fix when they do break. I don't plan on becoming my own computer tech and would not open a machine, so should that concern me at all, if I have extended warranty?

Ok, it is Superbowl Day, that's about it for me for the day. Thanks and look forward to your response. 


adam


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

adamm321 said:


> you surf the net, with just Safari, you don't use Firefox


Around 97% of the time it's with Safari, and the rest with Firefox.



> do you download any photos or music?


Yes.



> The MacBook is not enough machine for me though.


New MacBook Pros will be released before summer. They will have a price drop too :up:



> I definitely dislike IE, so on Apple, is Safari the only browser choice?


Safari is made by Apple, so it's integrated to work better, but you can download and use almost any other browser that you want. Thank God IE is _not_ one of them 



> I thought the information they were reporting came from surveys of owners of machines?


If that's the case then it was wrong, or misinterpreted.



> Do you have to purchase it directly from Apple? Can you find any let's say on Newegg.com?


Many stores sell it. I bought my copy of Art Text from Newegg  Simply click on the 'Software' button in the top menu, and then choose either Mac Games, Mac OS, or Mac Software  I would google for the best pricing though. Newegg is not always the best.



> Thank you for the link to that article.


It is my pleasure to help 



> Do I understand correctly that they are creating a Microsoft Office for Mac 2008, or is it available already?


It was released on Jan. 15th, 2008. There are 4 versions.



> I see here I have the Numbers software trial edition on her MacBook but I haven't had enough time to figure out how to work it yet.


Click here for some tutorials 



> In their discussion of the software Parallels Desktop, is that something that is already installed on the Mac or do you have to buy it separately?


Parallels is only for those who want to also use windows on their Mac. It is a separate purchase.



> That the hardware and software have been selected and matched to work well together.


Yes, that is precisely why it works better than PC software does.



> So what happens if you don't like something about the Mac software?


Not sure what you mean by this. Need examples.



> If you are trying to change the software or add a new software to the mix, is that going to throw a monkey wrench into this carefully constructed hardware/software mix?


Change it in what way? Change the base code?



> I don't plan on becoming my own computer tech and would not open a machine, so should that concern me at all, if I have extended warranty?


If you get the warranty then just let someone else do it, but generally speaking it depends on which model you are talking about. There are usually tutorials found on the net which give step by step directions on fixing certain parts. I, personally, don't find Macs any harder than any other piece of electronics. Certain models need special tools (_like the Mac Mini, or the new Mac Air_) but it doesn't sound like you are going to be getting one of those. The biggest reason to open your Mac is to replace the memory, and that is usually very easy on all Macs, except the new Mac Air. Can't speak about the new MB Pros coming out shortly but they should be very easy to work on if it's anything like the current model.


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

This free seminar will explain switching over to the Mac. You just need to register


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Back with more... 

The extended warranty is something I have had on every computer I have ever bought, this will be my fifth. It has paid for itself with every purchase. Since 1995, I have not had to pay for a repair, or replacement except for an ac adapter cord. I have had 24 hr phone tech support, that although it has sometimes not been the best, has eventually provided solutions. I've had less than a week downtime on any of those computers over all that time. I've never lost data. The current laptop, had to have the motherboard and the monitor replaced among other things. Not saying much for the machine, but the warranty was well worth it. Not without aggravation but at least not with additional cost. I've had laptops for the past 7 years now. For someone who can troubleshoot and replace parts for themselves, I suppose it isn't a necessity but I'm not that person. [g] I wish I could save money in that area.

Yes, the remote access to work, would need a high end professional solution, it is in a big business. We still have someone at the office trying to answer that for us, about how it could work. We still haven't taken the next step, to go into Apple with the laptop to see what they think.

As for a more specific use for the computer. I would like to use an 'office' or microsoft 'works' like program, with word processing and spreadsheets. I would love a safe secure browser that I can customize, like you can customize Firefox. Would need to upload photos from a digital camera, use photo editing software and considering purchasing Adobe Photoshop, not in the full version but the smaller, 'Essentials' software, I like to burn music from CDs and download mp3 files. I download and save photos online and through email. I would like to make photo/scapbook albums, maybe do geneaology research at some point, have an excellent calendar that is linked in with email and address book and a to do list? One that would also allow me to customize format and colors etc.

That is about all I can think of. I don't use any mobile devices, including an iPod and don't even have a cell phone..lol. Not planning on any either. Is there some function of using the computer that I have not thought of, that are common uses? What about shopping online? I don't do that and it is because of the security issues. Is that something that is more secure on a Mac?

Right now I don't have a software program in mind that doesn't come in a Mac version I guess..so that was just a general question.

I just took a quick look at your links and they look great. The one about transferring photos/music to the Mac was very good...I will look it over in more detail later, but I have bookmarked it. Thanks you saved me a lot of time looking for that.

The book...the missing manual. I just looked at our library and they have it and I put in a reserve. Already two ahead of me. Popular book. 

I actually tried emailing music and photos yesterday to the MacBook and I was surprised that it just worked it out without my intervening at all. The mp3 format music was not a problem but the wmp were. Is there a way to convert windows media format to mp3? The photos opened up in the photo software fine.

What I did have trouble with were my spreadsheets. I think I figured out that there is a Numbers program on this macbook but it is not registered so it won't convert them. I can't register it, it's not my machine. So I can see that might be fairly easy too.

The less expensive MacPro might be nice. I will have to check with them when it is scheduled to come out. I doubt I will be able to wait though.

I have been using the Safari and it works fine. I would like to customize the appearance and there doesn't appear to be many options in system preferences. Can you download skins or something like that?

I plan on checking out software available this week. Thanks for the tips about Newegg.

The tutorials will help a lot!

By changing the software 'mix'. I only meant adding software to the computer system that didn't come with it and wasn't 'selected' specifically to run well with the hardware.

All your links were fantastic and really saved me a lot of searching that I don't think I am that good at. [g] Thank you VERY much!!


adam


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

Howdy. Wish you well on your new Mac adventure. I have been using Macs since 1990. Also, have never had a virus, etc. on any system going back to System 6.

A couple of points to remember: MS Office 2008 for Mac OS X does *not* support VBA at all. Thus, if you have need for that capability, you will definitely need to use Boot Camp/Parallels/Fusion with Windows and Office 2003/2007.

For genealogy research, the best one I have found is Reunion.

If you want combined capability of office apart from MS Office, then the free alternative is NeoOffice (port of Open Office to OS X) or you could use Open Office using X11 in OS X (separate installation). If MS Office cross-platform is needed, then that is the way to go. If that specific Office compatibility isn't high priority, you can use RagTime (both Windows and OS X versions) or Papyrus (also Windows and OS X).

I have not used iWork, but Numbers (spreadsheets) is not a substitute for Excel, but it does have some nice features for normal ("non-business") use.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Flashback said:


> Around 97% of the time it's with Safari, and the rest with Firefox.


This surprises me. Why do you use Firefox instead of Camino?

Peace...


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

adamm321 said:


> The extended warranty is something I have had on every computer I have ever bought, this will be my fifth.


Just know that according to Apples policy if your hard drive ever goes bad, ALL of your data on it _belongs to APPLE and you will NOT get it back!_ They also use refurbished parts sometimes, so be aware of what you're paying for and actually getting. We recommend you wait until the original warranty completes, _before _added the extended one.



> Would need to upload photos from a digital camera, use photo editing software and considering purchasing Adobe Photoshop, not in the full version but the smaller, 'Essentials' software


Leopard comes with iPhoto, and for uploading we use Transmit :up:



> I just took a quick look at your links and they look great. The one about transferring photos/music to the Mac was very good...I will look it over in more detail later, but I have bookmarked it. Thanks you saved me a lot of time looking for that.


Glad it helped you 



> The book...the missing manual. I just looked at our library and they have it and I put in a reserve. Already two ahead of me. Popular book.


Yes all of the 'missing manual' series are good. Can't wait for the 'iWork '08 Missing Manual' to come out. I'll probably buy it the day it goes on sale 

Glad you're using the library as a resource too. We go there at least 3 times a week. BTW- check to see if they carry any software. We've pickued up legal copies of many programs this way. Your tax dollars pays for this service if you live in the U.S. so you might as well use it 



> Is there a way to convert windows media format to mp3?


Try EasyWMA 



> The less expensive MacPro might be nice. I will have to check with them when it is scheduled to come out. I doubt I will be able to wait though.


I heard through the grapevine that it will be less than a month, maybe less than two weeks 



> I have been using the Safari and it works fine.


Yes, it's the best browser that we've seen so far. Very fast. Very secure.



> I would like to customize the appearance and there doesn't appear to be many options in system preferences. Can you download skins or something like that?


It's not something that's built-in. Try posting your Safari question on MacFixIt or MacWorld. I'm pretty sure there is third party software for this sort of thing though. See this thread.



> All your links were fantastic and really saved me a lot of searching that I don't think I am that good at. [g] Thank you VERY much!!


Great to hear :up:


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## Flashback (Oct 14, 1999)

tomdkat said:


> Why do you use Firefox instead of Camino?


LOL  That's pretty funny


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Flashback said:


> LOL  That's pretty funny


Not all that funny, really. I use the gambit. Safari, Firefox, Camino, Opera. Some sites play better one browser over another. Don't know why. They just do.

That said, at least 75% of the time I use Safari for normal browsing needs.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

exegete....thanks for the well wishes. 

What is VBA that Mac OS X does not support?

I have just learned from the tech support at the office that I will need Boot Camp to connect to their system from a Mac. Is that additional software?

Thanks for the Reunion recommendation. I will keep that in mind.

I haven't tried iWork yet, either but the Numbers program, I really only need for text entires for the most part and wouldn't need great computational capacities. Hoping it will be enough for what I want. I think if I had a mac, that might be the best fit an I don't think $79. is a lot to spend. I will have to check it out before I decide though.

Flashback.....

That is something I don't get at all. Why would they want the data on your apple hard drive? Just so they don't have to retrieve it for you? I guess I will have to read all the fine print in the warranty contract. The reason you recommend waiting to extend the warranty? Does it give you more time?

I just tried out iPhoto this morning and find it very disappointing on this MacBook. Even the software that came with my camera was better. My camera software has an upload function too. I also explored the option of creating a calendar from your photos and it cost $20. to do it??!! Not liking that at all either.

Thanks for the tip on finding software at the library. Hadn't thought of that. 

Ditto the easywma.

I am going to call the local Apple store later, to check when they are expecting the new computer. Thanks for the heads up.

I am enjoying using the Safari, but I tried to use the 'find' function today and couldn't find that ability. I used it a lot in my Firefox browser and that is something I would like to have...also the look of it...no ability to change the appearance...I would love to increase the size of the icons, see the individual icons for each bookmark, change the colors of the text and text background, size of the menu bars...etc.


Thanks for the links...I will surely run into something.

Thanks


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

adamm321 said:


> exegete....thanks for the well wishes.
> 
> What is VBA that Mac OS X does not support?
> 
> I have just learned from the tech support at the office that I will need Boot Camp to connect to their system from a Mac. Is that additional software?


Actually, what tech support is saying is that you need to run Windows to connect to their system, in which case you will need to boot into Boot Camp (supplied with System software on DVD). However, it also means you will have to buy Windows Vista or XP and all the attendant other stuff (spyware, virus protection, etc. that the normal Windows user does) to install. Or you could do the same by purchasing Parallels or Fusion.

However, you might want to check about whether it is necessary, since many times Macs can connect under Mac OS X. It sounds as if the tech support people are not wanting to support you. I work in a Fortune 50 company with MS Exchange, etc. to support 60,000+ employees using Windows operating systems. Our Graphics division uses only Mac OS X and they have no problem connecting to the intranet.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks Rich for that information. I really don't want to run windows again since that was my main reason to go to a mac was to avoid all that. I think what I will do is bring my daughter's macbook into the apple store and see if they can connect me without using the boot camp. I am very happy to find this out _before_ I decide on which computer to buy.

adam


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## exegete (Oct 26, 2005)

Here is the Reunion web site.


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## adamm321 (Jan 31, 2008)

I just wanted to update, that I did go in to the Apple Tech and he was not able to connect either. I will have to install windows onto the system and he was sure to tell me Apple won't support the windows, that I would have to go to Microsoft for support. At work, their tech department said they won't be able to support the Mac...I posted another post with the title Decision Time... 

Thank you all for all the input. I will come back and let you all know how it all works out.


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