# Useless computer, trying to install Win98SE



## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Hey there folks. My computer was infected with scads of spyware not long ago and after several attempts to fix it, I just gave up and wiped the whole thing. Now i've got a nice paperweight on my hands.

I ran [email protected] Killdisk and completely wiped the entire C: drive. Whenever I go into the boot menu and try to load from my startup disk, the computer just hangs at the black screen with the little flashing _ marker at the top of the screen.
Booting from the CD doesnt work, it just tries to boot from my floppy and the same thing happens.
If I try to let the computer do its own thing it just goes into some network boot, a number counts up, and after waiting several tedious minutes it asks me for my startup floppy (which then hangs)

The only way I know of getting into a DOS prompt is through the Killdisk boot with CD Support, and when I try to load FDisk through there it gives me this evil error:

"Error reading from A: DOS area: general failure"

whatever that means...

The startup disk was made with my Win98SE CD and lists off all the programs on the disk when I check the dir in dos prompt, so i'm pretty sure the startup disk is alright.
Hope this question isnt too stupid... i'm just getting frustrated of trying to figure this out myself. Any help will be greatly appreciated, and will result in numerous blessings from the holy pope himself.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

I have a section with instructions for creating a boot disk at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/floppies.htm

There is also the generic one which you can download and extract at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win98_img.exe

There are a lot of the DOS utilities there that don't normally get added when you make one from Win98. For example Diskcopy, Doskey, Format, More, Move, Sys, Edit, Chkdsk, Deltree, Extract, Updated Fdisk, Attrib, Label, Mem, Scandisk, Scanreg, Smartdrv and Xcopy.

Not only are there more utilities on there but it starts much faster since it doesn't have to create the RAM disk and then expand the cab file from the floppy to that RAM disk.

It automatically loads with support for a generic CD ROM and assigns it the drive letter of X:

There is also a CD ROM boot image you can download at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso

If you need help with how to use FDISK see:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/fdisk.htm

Topics covered are:
Overview and Getting Started
Partitioning a New Drive - Single Large Partition
Partitioning a New Drive - Multiple Partitions
Deleting a Single Partition
Deleting Multiple Partitions
Deleting a NTFS Partition
Fixing the Master Boot Record


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

There may be a problem with your floppy drive. Did you make the startup floppy with that drive and what drive did you use to make the Killdisk floppy?

If you haven't tried, create a new startup floppy in a different machine from the one that created it originally. The alignment of these drives is not precise and a floppy made on one machine may not work on another.

If you have a floppy cleaner, it wouldn't hurt to try that. Just due to the way floppy drives are constreucted, they tend to accumulate dust and dirt.


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## Bman74 (Mar 2, 2005)

You should try changing the boot order to boot to the cd drive first, then it should boot to the windows disk. Go into the bios to change the boot order by starting the computer and tapping either the delete button,f1,f2,f10 or f12, its different on different computers. You might need to do this a few times. Once there go to boot options and select the cd drive as the first booting device, then press f10, hit yes and restart with the windows disc in the cd drive


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Bob Cerelli said:


> There is also a CD ROM boot image you can download at:
> http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso


Sounds like just the thing I need... unfortunately when I try to unzip the archive from that link there is nothing there.
()
Any other links to something like that?


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Here's one that works:

http://users.adelphia.net/~abraxas/dl/Win98.iso

Download it, open your CD-burning application and look for a way to burn images. In Nero, it is under the Recorder or File menu depending what version. Burn the image to CD rather than opening the archive.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

RabidAmoeba,

You don't need to unzip that file. You need to use a CD burning program that can burn ISO images.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil said:


> Here's one that works:
> QUOTE]
> 
> Please don't be so quick to condemn the link by posting "Here's one that works".
> ...


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Bob Cerelli said:


> Elvandil said:
> 
> 
> > Here's one that works:
> ...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

1. The archive is not empty (just did another test to make sure)

2. If you read the post, he tried to unzip an ISO file. Not sure that is going to work.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Bob Cerelli said:


> 1. The archive is not empty (just did another test to make sure)
> 
> 2. If you read the post, he tried to unzip an ISO file. Not sure that is going to work.


If the archive was intact, it should "unzip", in the sense of "open and deposit its contents into a folder", the standard interpretation of that word, with an archiving program. When the person states that they tried to unzip the iso and it failed, it is condescending and disrespectful to assume that they are less than truthful or don't know what they are doing.

But perhaps English is not your best language?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil,
That is not necessarily true.

And there is really no need for remarks like "But perhaps English is not your best language?". I doesn't make you look particular good.

Maybe a better test than making all the assumptions and accusations would be for you to actually download the ISO image and actually burn it to a CD (the correct way). Then boot with it. Simple to do.

I also added:

DELPART - GUI interface to delete FAT or NTFS Partitions
READNTFS - Read and Copy files on a NTFS partition
FDISK121 - New FDISK with additional options - See the documentation


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil,

Perhaps an explanation of why it isn't necessarily true that you can simply "unzip" and view the contents of a bootable CD to see what is there would help you better understand the situation.

With a bootable CD, you can't simply look at the files that used in the booting process this way. So the CD will appear to be blank. When in fact, if you had actually tested the CD before saying it wouldn't work, you would have determined that it does boot and the drive that is assigned as A: has all the DOS utility files. 

Now if you add more files to the CD in addition to the boot files, these will be seen when you use a unzip program to see what is on the drive. But these are separate from the files used to boot.

Try it on your own CD as well. 

Pretty basic and has been this way for a long time.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil,

Just checking back to see if you tried making a bootable CD and test how unzipping software does not see the files from the "bootable" portion of the CD. 

That is why you don't see everything, or anything, unless you actually boot from it, and it only seems to be empty.


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Hey again. Thanks for the boot CD, that worked and I've managed to run fdisk... Unfortunately when I try to use the "format c:/s" command it tells me I dont have enough memory to install windows. Even if I format without the additional "/s" it still says windows must be installed on a system with at least 16-megs of memory. I know I have this, I was just using WinXP. Any suggestions on how I may solve this?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Glad you figured out how to use the boot CD.

If you are installing Windows, you don't need to worry about the /s switch.

Just FORMAT C: will work fine.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

RabidAmoeba said:


> Hey again. Thanks for the boot CD, that worked and I've managed to run fdisk... Unfortunately when I try to use the "format c:/s" command it tells me I dont have enough memory to install windows. Even if I format without the additional "/s" it still says windows must be installed on a system with at least 16-megs of memory. I know I have this, I was just using WinXP. Any suggestions on how I may solve this?


That CD can come in very handy.

What size did you choose for fdisking the partition? Did you allow large disk support? Is there more than one, and if so, what sizes?

Though fdisk /s should work fine (depending on the above factors), try using just fdisk. The system files aren't necessary for a new installation.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

The /s switch will work fine but:

It is unnecessary 
The syntax you posted isn't quite correct. Should be "format c: /s" not 
"format c:/s"


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil said:


> Though fdisk /s should work fine (depending on the above factors), try using just fdisk. The system files aren't necessary for a new installation.


There is no FDISK /S that I am aware of. Is this something new?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Elvandil said:


> Though fdisk /s should work fine (depending on the above factors), try using just fdisk. The system files aren't necessary for a new installation.


And if you meant say format /s, that is also not exactly what needs to be entered.

If should likely have read FORMAT C: /S

But again, during the installation of Windows, the system files that are there will be overwritten anyway so there is not need to include the /s switch in the first place.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

RabidAmoeba,

Since you got some incorrect information on using both FDISK and FORMAT, you might want too look at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/win9x_install.htm

for different ways to install Win9x as well as how to correctly use those two programs.

Topics covered are:Overview
FDISK and/or FORMAT
First Time Install
Simple Re-Install - (Over Existing Installation)
Clean Installation or Upgrade - (Keeping Windows & Program Files Directories)
New Installation - (Removing Original Files without a Format)

====================

Information on how to use FDISK can be found at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/fdisk.htm

Topics covered are:
Overview and Getting Started
Partitioning a New Drive - Single Large Partition
Partitioning a New Drive - Multiple Partitions
Deleting a Single Partition
Deleting Multiple Partitions
Deleting a NTFS Partition
Fixing the Master Boot Record

======================


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

RabidAmoeba said:


> Any suggestions on how I may solve this?


Thanks for the respose. We can still continue. I've sent you all the instructions so that you can finish it up. This thread has become pretty uninformative, too.

Good luck and let me know how you do.


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Alright... First I tried booting with just my Win98 install CD in the drive. After everything loads up the computer runs some program that I am unfamiliar with (this is what comes up on the screen):

Novell Netware Ready Firmware v1.00
[Copyrite info here]
VIA PCI 10/100MB Fast Ethernet Adapter v.3.33

Analyzing Network Media Type, this will take several seconds...
OK

RPL-ROM-ADR: 000A E658 1A96
RPL-ROM-IRQ: 5
RPL-ROM-DC00

RPL-ROM-FCC: [A number here starts counting up, this is usually when I leave the room because it takes a while. When I come back the screen says]

Searching for Boot Record from SCSI.. Not Found
Boot Failure
Insert BOOT diskette in A:
Press any key when ready.
[I insert WIN98 boot floopy]
Invalid System Disk
[I hit return to try again and no error appears this time, but it still hangs on black screen with the flashing _ character]

I've tried making several Win98SE boot floppies but every one i've made will not work, I always just get error messages (either "Error reading from drive A: DOS Area: general failure" or the "Invalid System Disk" I just mentioned). As a result, i'm using the CD Rom boot that is on my [email protected] Killdisk (maybe that is the problem, I dont know.)

Now... I've just wiped everything again and started from scratch incase I did something incorrectly and i'm still having problems. I'll tell you everything I did in detail to avoid any more miscommunication.

I ran FDisk first:
Allow large disk support? Y (of course)
1. Create DOS partition or Logical Dos drive.
1. Create Primary DOS partition.

[Waited while computer verifyed integrity]

Do you wish to use max avail size for Primary DOS Partition and make Partition active? Y (HD is approx. 60 GB)

That part runs smoothly and the new partition is created. (Only one, to answer your question)

I use the Boot CD you gave me (thanks again for that, the floppy situation really pissed me off) to format the new partition. First I tried the format c: /s command, but after a couple seconds this message comes up:

Insufficient memory to load system files
Format terminated.

So I go into the CD directory and run Setup. After the computer runs it's system check, the win98 install program loads up but before it even installs anything, a window pops up with the message:

Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory.

I press the OK button and it just sends me back to dos. As I said, I am damn sure I have 16MB of memory because I was just running windows XP. Any more suggestions?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

How much memory does the computer have?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

What CD are you booting to? 

Since it ins not any default that Windows has, do you know why Novell and all that other stuff about SCSI is loading? Unless you have either one, there isn't much need for it. Is that from that CD?

What Win98 floppy are you inserting and exactly how was it created?

If you are getting errrors when you try and make a bootable Win98 floppy, it is possible that either the floppy disk or drive itself is defective.

=========

Sounds like things are way too complicated. You should be able to download and create a bootable Win98 Floppy that has FDISK, FORMAT and will will let you access your CD ROM.

Boot, run FDISK and create whatever partitions you need

Reboot and FORMAT the drive (you do not need the /s parameter)


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

If you're talking about ram: 256mb

As for the question "What CD are you booting to?" I'm not sure what you mean there... If you're asking what CD i'm using to install Win98 it is, of course, a Win98SE CD.

Now about Novell and all that other stuff loading, I don't even know WHAT it is so I dont know WHY it is loading... it just comes up whenever I let the computer load itself with just my win98se cd in the drive (no boot floppy)

I've tried every available floppy disk around here on every floppy drive available. The one I use regularily was created directly from the Win98 install CD. The errors dont come when I try to create the boot floppy (I did come across a couple, but those disks are now in the garbage) The errors come when I try to boot from the disk. Usually one error pops up first, i'll hit return to try loading the disk again, then it will hang on a black screen with Dos' little flashing _ sign in the upper left corner of the screen. I've left the room for a good 30min. before to see if it just needs time to load but when I return, nothing has changed.

A couple new questions:

How would I get into Dos without having to use my killdisk floppy all the time?
and
Is there any way to create a new Win98 boot floppy while running in Dos?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

If every floppy disk program you tried doesn't work, it is entirely possible that either the floppies or the drive are defective, or the process being used is incorrect.

Do you want to get to where you can at least boot with a floppy and access your CD ROM.

Did you also try any of the previously mentioned bootable CD images? Also, for your information, you cannot simply use an unzip program to see what is on the CD. The files that are used by the CD to boot will not show. This can give the false impression that there is nothing on the CD when in fact it will boot just fine.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

I have a section with instructions for creating a boot disk at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/floppies.htm

There is also the generic one which you can download and extract at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win98_img.exe

There are a lot of the DOS utilities there that don't normally get added when you make one from Win98. For example Diskcopy, Doskey, Format, More, Move, Sys, Edit, Chkdsk, Deltree, Extract, Updated Fdisk, Attrib, Label, Mem, Scandisk, Scanreg, Smartdrv and Xcopy.

Not only are there more utilities on there but it starts much faster since it doesn't have to create the RAM disk and then expand the cab file from the floppy to that RAM disk.

It automatically loads with support for a generic CD ROM and assigns it the drive letter of X:

There is also a CD ROM boot image you can download at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso

In addition to all the other DOS utilities, the CD version also has:
DELPART - For deleting DOS and NTFS partitions. Can delete extended NTFS partitions.
FDISK121 - FDISK with additional options - See the documentation, and 
READNTFS - Read and Copy files on a NTFS partition.

The CD image needs to be burned using a program that recognized ISO images.


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Bob, i'm sincerely beginning to doubt if you have actually been READING my posts at all.

I do know how to burn an .iso image to a cd, but for some reason the link you gave me did not work. I opened nero and told it to burn from an image file, but after all was said and done the .iso file took up a whopping 0 bytes on the cd. In other words, there was nothing there at all, I checked it, and even though it showed nothing there I tried booting with it anyway, and as I predicted, nothing at all happened.

The link Elvandil gave me worked, so I have been using the CD I burned from his file to run FDISK and FORMAT.

As for the boot floppy issue. I have sucessfully created several boot disks using files you have given me, AND directly from the Windows98 CD itself.

THERE WERE NO ERROR MESSAGES DURING THE DISK CREATION.

THE PROBLEM COMES WHEN I TRY TO USE THESE BOOT DISKS TO LOAD WINDOWS OR DOS.

Whenever I place a floppy in the drive before startup, THAT is when the error messages appear. Either:

Error reading from drive A: DOS Area: general failure.

or the good old:

Invalid System Disk

If I check the dir. of these floppies everything is there, but I cannot use FDisk or Format or any of these files from the floppies.

As I have mentioned above, I have been using a BootCD to run FDisk and Format. FDisk runs without a problem, the new partition is created and made active. I ran Format without the /s tag (as suggested) and that DOES format the C: drive. Again, no problems there.

The problem comes when I try to run SETUP from my Win98 Install CD. The setup program will load but before it begins installing anything a window pops up with the message:

Windows 98 requires a computer with at least 16MB of memory.

I have 256MB ram in my computer, so it should still run fine, but it doesnt.

If I run Format WITH the /s tag (even though you say it isnt necessary) I get the message:

Insufficient memory to load system files
Format Terminated

I dont mean to offend, but the last few replies I have gotten from you ask questions I have already answered, and I do try to keep my posts easily understandable.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

In reading your posts, the only CD's ever specifically mentioned being used were "First I tried booting with just my Win98 install CD in the drive and "As a result, i'm using the CD Rom boot that is on my [email protected] Killdisk". 

In reading your posts, it doesn't sound like at least the FORMAT command is working at all for you. Since the CD you are using isn't working, you might try another one. Also since there was apparently some off-line information provided, which isn't working either. This is why I posted the same information again trying to get to the bottom of what is being used and how. 

In reading your posts regarding the problem with the boot disks, I made the suggestion "If every floppy disk program you tried doesn't work, it is entirely possible that either the floppies or the drive are defective, or the process being used is incorrect."

For the third time, I have downloaded, burned and booted from the same one on my site. There were also other posts on this very forum and e-mails to me that the bootable CD worked for people. But again, as you previously tried to do, you cannot simply try to look at the files on that CD with unzip software and expect to see very much. It is approximately 2.33 megs in size and burns as an image just fine at least from NERO. Did you wait to make sure the entire file was copied to your computer?

If you can create a bootable CD, then you don't need the floppy at all. That is why I provide both ways of booting, running FDISK and FORMAT.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Another possibility for the low memory, is if from a previous message that I already asked about, things like Novell, SCSI and whatever other drivers are loading due to whatever boot disk you are using, you might not have enough memory left over to install Windows. I doubt they include the MEM command like mine so it may be hard to tell how much you have left. But it would certainly explain why so little memory is available to install Windows.

Although they can take into account a lot more possible configurations, most time these extra drivers are unnecessary and just waste memory. That is one reason I like to load minimal driver set, basically enough to access your CD ROM. 

So again, since the floppy doesn't appear to be working correctly, and from the information provided, the current bootable CD is not leaving enough memory, you might try an alternative bootable CD image to use.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Actually, prior to your last post, there were three responses to what CD's that you tried to boot to:

1. "First I tried booting with just my Win98 install CD in the drive"
2. "As a result, i'm using the CD Rom boot that is on my [email protected] Killdisk (maybe that is the problem, I dont know.)"
and
3. When I asked what CD are you booting to? the reply was "I'm not sure what you mean there"

This is why the need to keep asking to find out. There were three completely different replies regarding what CD you were booting to. Now apparently there is a fourth response...and none are working. 

This is where having the accurate details up front only makes things go smoother for you.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

RabidAmoeba said:


> If I run Format WITH the /s tag (even though you say it isnt necessary) I get the message:
> 
> Insufficient memory to load system files
> Format Terminated


Take a look in your inbox. I've tried to sift through the morass of misinformation and make some sense.

For example, what does fdisk /status or format /autotest return at present?

For those unfamiliar with fdisk, format, and their versions and switches, these sites will provide some starting points for study:

http://www.fdisk.com/
http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/

For Microsoft's versions:

How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a Hard Disk

I'd suggest you just close this thread. History shows that you'll get nothing but belligerence henceforth.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

From the posts, it is apparent that whatever bootable CD or instructions you are using are not coming from me. That at least is a relief. 

It is unfortunate that given the variety of problems you are experiencing, whatever information is being offered off-line hasn't worked. Neither is the boot CD you are using. You can't even format the drive with it without getting errors. It just shouldn't be this difficult. 

For example. FDISK and FORMAT shouldn't need any switches at all. You just need to know how to use them correctly. In addition to being unnecessary they are obviously making a very simple solution very complicated. It is a good indication of how desperate the situation has become for you. And the proof for all this is that it is still not working.

Eventually you will likely slug through this to a solution. It is just unfortunate that you are on such a difficult and complicated path in trying to find that solution.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

RabidAmoeba,

From discussions, now that you have my Win98 boot CD working and used it to FDISK the drive, just reboot with that same CD use that to FORMAT the hard drive. Don't need any fancy switches. Just FORMAT C:

Clearly the tools and instructions you were using before wasn't working so hopefully this will put you on a better track.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

You're very welcome for the help. This is the place to come when you have problems (sometimes  ).

Happy computing.


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## RabidAmoeba (Mar 2, 2005)

Alrighty... I'm actually posting from my own computer for once. Just wanted to say one final thank you to the both of you for all the help you have provided (and the pissing contest that gave me a few good chuckles, even though it was not my desire to start anything like that). Everything is running perfectly, and if anything craps out again i'll be sure to come back to this forum.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

It was a long journey. Glad you made it.

The forum will still be here, even though I hope you won't need it .


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

RabidAmoeba,

Thanks for the personal message on how you finally got it to format:

"used your file to write a boot floppy. Instead of hanging, as it usually did, the boot disk ran smoothly so I deleted everything once more and sucessfully installed win98 again. Now I can actually post from my own computer. Thanks once more for all your time and help."

Guess from post #11, something must have worked even in spite of it being suspected that English is not my best language ;-)


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