# HDMI to be replaced with an ethernet cable?



## ekim68

According to the HDBaseT press release, LG Electronics, Samsung Electronics, Sony Pictures Entertainment and Valens Semiconductor are working to kill HDMI. They are trying to replace it with a new standard which will transport the video and audio signals through an ethernet cable. The new stardard will be called HDBaseT.

http://www.neowin.net/news/hdmi-to-be-replaced-with-an-ethernet-cable


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## TechGuy

I can't wait to see Monster-brand CAT5 for just $20/foot.


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## loserOlimbs

Now there is something that should have been done along time ago!


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## JohnWill

I'll believe it when I see it.  It will take years for HDMI do die out if the switch were made today, there are millions of HDMI equipped TV's, DVR's, Computers, etc.

It would be nice to use CAT5 cable for long runs of video, but I won't hold my breath.


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## avisitor

TechGuy said:


> I can't wait to see Monster-brand CAT5 for just $20/foot.


Denon beat you to it: http://www.usa.denon.com/productdetails/3429.asp


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## TechGuy

Wow, $100/foot is a little expensive... I hope it makes the connection EXTRA fast.


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## JohnWill

The mind boggles! I wonder if there is anyone that's stupid enough to actually believe that cable makes a difference?


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## Squashman

My $5 HDMI cable I got from Amazon works great.


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## loserOlimbs

JohnWill said:


> The mind boggles! I wonder if there is anyone that's stupid enough to actually believe that cable makes a difference?


Not sure, but read the reviews before you buy 

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-D...ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFiveStar


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## JohnWill

I'm not surprised, tempted to post there myself.


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## nitinfrancis20

what is this i didnt get


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## Stisfa

JohnWill said:


> The mind boggles! I wonder if there is anyone that's stupid enough to actually believe that cable makes a difference?


"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" - Despair, Inc.



loserOlimbs said:


> Not sure, but read the reviews before you buy
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-D...ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFiveStar


I read a few of those reviews about black holes, anarchy and general hullabaloo resulting from the use of these cables; they just further reinforce Despair, Inc.'s statement.

@JohnWill, stupid is all a matter of perception. To illustrate, you can go to a 5-star hotel and pay $30 for a single use of WiFi, whereas you can get the same WiFi service for free from a budget motel, plus, the Continental Breakfast is free at the budget places whereas all breakfast items are $$$ from the 5-star places. Budget motels and 5-star hotels offer the same basic things we expect from them, a bed, a shower/bath and privacy, yet, many of us go to the 5-star hotel, either because we're impelled by our own misinterpretation of what kind of service a budget motel entails or we're compelled by super-aggressive marketing by the 5-star hotels (which has a direct correlation to the exorbitant prices we pay at such places of faux-esotericism).

Of course, this metric of "stupidity" or "irrationality" doesn't hold the same ground in the context of picking a place of lodging between Eastern Queens or Manhattan, but does this cable warrant a parallel context? By no means, yet when the masses are pacified into believing Madison Avenue's provocative messages on the purported prowess of this cable, we are left with only one conclusion: to acknowledge and embrace the ignorance of the herd. To be honest, if it weren't for the herd-mentality, there _probably_ wouldn't be an web-domain named "www.techguy.org", in fact, the internet and personal computers _probably_ wouldn't exist either, all because capitalism thrives on the herd's coalesced interests; if not for the herd, competition would not exist, and if competition does not exist, complacency encroaches upon all potential advancement. That's not to say that PCs and the internet would be entirely non-existent without capitalism, but it certainly wouldn't be as matured as it is now. That's also not to say that the herd is always right, but many of us are in positions of thankfulness, since the will of our fellow consumers continually provides the incentive for all businesses, from micro to macro, to provide some kind of product or service that, hopefully, advances society as a whole.

To put it simply, the Denon CAT5 cable is but a sample of how life is truly an anecdotal conundrum; it's perception, just perception .

EDIT: And, of course, I'm certainly not immune to stupidity of my own design or one influenced by the masses; I'm just going to sit out of this "Ethernet Cable > HDMI Cable" game, at least until there's a clear direction of which way the world goes (kind of like watching the past few Format Wars, such as BetaMax vs VHS, Blu-ray vs HD-DVD)


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## ekim68

Hey Stisfa, I'd like to see you over in CD, eh?  Some provocative ideas...


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## lotuseclat79

hdBaseT: the New HDMI Competitor.

*It's really more than an HDMI competitor, it's a cable specification that "converges full uncompressed HD video, audio, 100BaseT Ethernet, high power over cable and various control signals through a single 100m/328ft CAT5e/6 LAN cable." That's an idea that I can really get behind. No new proprietary connectors, no expensive cables needed, consolidation of all necessary signals into one cable. The founding companies include LG Electronics, Samsung Electronics, and Sony Pictures Entertainment.*

-- Tom


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## JohnWill

I'd prefer them to pick a better connector than the stupid RJ-45 with the fragile little plastic nib sticking out that always gets broken off!  OTOH, I'm really good at installing new connectors on the cables, I get plenty of practice.


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## avisitor

I rather like the 8P8C connector. It's completely standardized and common. Wall jacks are under $2. CAT5e/6 cabling is cheap and reliable. 8P8C modular plugs are what, $.25. Compared to HDMI, it's far cheaper.

I have to wonder what's happened to simple RG59/RG6 coax cable. We know that standard coax cable has plenty of bandwidth. It should be easy enough to design a standard for transmitting 1080p using 256QAM over coax with encryption. Everything used to have an RF modulator in it, why not a DTV modulator.


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## jp1203

I doubt it'd be here anytime soon, but it would be nice...Ethernet is so much more manageable...wiring a home with it is a piece of cake, and the cables can be made from home for cheap.


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## loserOlimbs

JohnWill said:


> I'd prefer them to pick a better connector than the stupid RJ-45 with the fragile little plastic nib sticking out that always gets broken off!  OTOH, I'm really good at installing new connectors on the cables, I get plenty of practice.


Just stop breaking them... I hardly ever have trouble except when I yank them thinking they are unplugged... but I think I have broken all of 2 in all


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## jp1203

I've never broken one under normal use, either.

The only time I manage to is if I have one tangled up, get frustrated, and yank it through anyway. That'll pull the tab off every time.


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## Squashman

avisitor said:


> I rather like the 8P8C connector. It's completely standardized and common. Wall jacks are under $2. CAT5e/6 cabling is cheap and reliable. 8P8C modular plugs are what, $.25. Compared to HDMI, it's far cheaper.
> 
> I have to wonder what's happened to simple RG59/RG6 coax cable. We know that standard coax cable has plenty of bandwidth. It should be easy enough to design a standard for transmitting 1080p using 256QAM over coax with encryption. Everything used to have an RF modulator in it, why not a DTV modulator.


Lets go back to Token Ring too!!!!


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## Squashman

loserOlimbs said:


> Just stop breaking them... I hardly ever have trouble except when I yank them thinking they are unplugged... but I think I have broken all of 2 in all





JStergis said:


> I've never broken one under normal use, either.
> 
> The only time I manage to is if I have one tangled up, get frustrated, and yank it through anyway. That'll pull the tab off every time.


Well we could make a magnetic RJ45 connector and then Apple would sue for copyright infringement. Not that it would ever work.


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## loserOlimbs

Squashman said:


> Well we could make a magnetic RJ45 connector and then Apple would sue for copyright infringement. Not that it would ever work.


Well, if we want to take Apple's approach, we'll take a brick and call it the iRoute... and sell it for $250. When people complain it doesn't work we'll tell them its because they laid it on the table wrong.

Best of all, the iRoute is wireless, and handles all traffic and connections equally well!


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## JohnWill

JStergis said:


> I've never broken one under normal use, either.
> 
> The only time I manage to is if I have one tangled up, get frustrated, and yank it through anyway. That'll pull the tab off every time.


Exactly! If you handle them every day working on networks, you're bound to break one every few weeks. I'd like to see a better connector design with the connector boot a permanent part of the connector to avoid that, the silly boots slide off the connector, even if you have them.


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## namenotfound

TechGuy said:


> I can't wait to see Monster-brand CAT5 for just $20/foot.


Where do you shop? I can get 25-foot Ethernet cables for $12, and 6-foot HDMI cables for $4 on Amazon.com

Never go to retail stores, they rip you off :down:


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## loserOlimbs

namenotfound said:


> Where do you shop? I can get 25-foot Ethernet cables for $12, and 6-foot HDMI cables for $4 on Amazon.com
> 
> Never go to retail stores, they rip you off :down:


I think you missed the sarcasm. Monster is known to charge a premium on the same product you can buy from anyone else for much less.


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## bocina boy

Why don't we do away with all cables and connect components wirelessly?


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## catlover2

bocina boy said:


> Why don't we do away with all cables and connect components wirelessly?


From my experience, wireless seems to require _more_ wires than _wired_.


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## ekim68

And in the best of conditions, one third of the speed of hard wire, IMO..


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## namenotfound

Why didn't they do this years ago? Ethernet cables have been around long before HDMI cables, so why even bother inventing HDMI if, as they claim, Ethernet works just fine.


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## Stisfa

ekim68 said:


> Hey Stisfa, I'd like to see you over in CD, eh?  Some provocative ideas...


Nah, I take things too personal .



bocina boy said:


> Why don't we do away with all cables and connect components wirelessly?


Well, this will cover the ever-so-invasive AC power cables:
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=emerging08&id=20248

Back to the topic at hand: despite HDBaseT's architectural changes to how we use CATx cables, I'm still sitting out of this one. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a CATx cable carrying power and adoption of previously unsupported signals. In fact, I'm in adoration for this mentality of "fundamental changes" rather than "more of the same", but HDMI has been adding functionality too, especially with the introduction of Version 1.4. Obviously, the CATx standard has several advantages: price, distance and an established presence that HDMI has yet to approach (nix on that price advantage if we get more of that Denon rubbish). At the same time, it has to overcome the growing pains of integration, but that's with all aspiring tech advents, is it not? HDMI might still hold it's own, as it does provide us with a micro-connector for mobile devices, something that a CATx cable-RJ-45 pairing can't provide (as far as I'm aware of, at least). Along with that, HDMI has had 8 years to establish it's market presence, again, a standard that isn't as prevalent as CATx, but the layman is going to immediately identify HDMI with A/V and CATx with networking, unless Samsung can pull some strings to bring Eric Kim back for some savvy marketing (likely not, as he's recently just moved from Intel to Soraa).

My main point is this: there is still a high potential for a Format War here. Or maybe HDMI and HDBaseT may begin catering to niches that the other cannot fulfill. In either case, I don't believe that HDBaseT will place HDMI in a state of deprecation, and I'd rather it not, as I feel competition is better for me, the end consumer. This may seem counter-intuitive to the informed and in direct contrast to the article quoted by lotuseclat79, but I'm of this opinion for several reasons: everyone here has the knowledge to truly appreciate what HDBaseT entails, but that doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the world does. Along with that, there are numerous social-economic forces that contribute to both the downfall and uprise of budding ventures in all markets, including our enamored world of technology. Finally, I think that it's best to account for both paradox and Murphy's Law (for example, look at Facebook: started February 2004 and wasn't profitable until the 3rd quarter of 2009! During this ~5 year negative cash flow period, investors kept pumping money into Mark Zuckerberg's brainchild - albeit, most investors are thoroughly aware that 99% of businesses fail in the first 10 years of operations and are unprofitable for the first several years).

For myself, I'm not going to heavily invest my resources into either, at least not until there's a clear definition of which direction both technologies will pursue and which will fit into my lifestyle; that's just me, as I don't have the deep reservoirs of money, time and energy like you guys do .


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## namenotfound

Why do people write it as "CAT"
It's not an acronym, it's an abbreviation for Category.
Cat cable 

It reminds me of all those people that write "MAC" instead of Mac...


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## JohnWill

namenotfound said:


> Why didn't they do this years ago? Ethernet cables have been around long before HDMI cables, so why even bother inventing HDMI if, as they claim, Ethernet works just fine.


Because the necessary conversion technology to transmit high speed signals over the Ethernet cable wasn't available at the time.


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## JohnWill

namenotfound said:


> Why do people write it as "CAT"
> It's not an acronym, it's an abbreviation for Category.
> Cat cable
> 
> It reminds me of all those people that write "MAC" instead of Mac...


Probably because it's become an industry standard way of specifying the cable. Try finding Cat5 cable in the catalog instead of CAT5.


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## namenotfound

JohnWill said:


> Probably because it's become an industry standard way of specifying the cable. Try finding Cat5 cable in the catalog instead of CAT5.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

Wikipedia doesn't mention CAT5 as an alternative choice 



> ..often referred to as Cat5 or Cat-5.


Btw, why do some computer still require a crossover cable for data transfer between two computers linked together? Mac computer (Intel, at least) auto detects and auto configures the cable when directly connecting two computer, so a crossover isn't needed. A regular Cat5 cable can data transfer between two Macs.

Why don't all computer manufacturers adopt this technology?


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## loserOlimbs

namenotfound said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable
> 
> Wikipedia doesn't mention CAT5 as an alternative choice
> 
> Btw, why do some computer still require a crossover cable for data transfer between two computers linked together? Mac computer (Intel, at least) auto detects and auto configures the cable when directly connecting two computer, so a crossover isn't needed. A regular Cat5 cable can data transfer between two Macs.
> 
> Why don't all computer manfacuators adopt this technology?


As much as I love Wikipedia... I would use that as my primary source.

As for crossover Cables on Macs VS PCs... because PC users prefer to do it right, and Macs are made for the less technically inclined who do things their way, regardless of procedure or standards.

And PCs can auto sense, just like a good router or switch can. I would still rather do things correctly for legacy support.


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## jp1203

JohnWill said:


> Exactly! If you handle them every day working on networks, you're bound to break one every few weeks. I'd like to see a better connector design with the connector boot a permanent part of the connector to avoid that, the silly boots slide off the connector, even if you have them.


Very true! The only reason I didn't break too many when I was working on networks is because I rarely did anything with the wiring (when swapping out a machine, it was just unplug everything and plug it back in--not much potential to break it there)...and if I did, it was just punching a new cable onto the patch panel and putting in a new wall jack in a room--no ends to mess with there!

Some of the mass-produced cables have little "guide rails" around it to prevent the tab from snagging. Not like these...I find this type to be troublesome: http://kitchendinner.com/img/Electronics/cables-unlimited-14-cat5e-snagless2914.jpg

This type, I like very much, though: http://www.strutmanelectronics.com/images/a3l791-50-s.jpg

Problem is, we terminate our own cables most of the time, and there's not really a way to implement a guard then.

I'm in the process of wiring my house with Ethernet now, and to avoid terminating anything (because even after hundreds of times, I'm still lousy at it), I've been putting baseboard jacks in each room, and plan to get a small patch panel. Then I'll just order a bunch of little 1-3 foot cables from Newegg to go to the switch.


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## loserOlimbs

JStergis said:


> Some of the mass-produced cables have little "guide rails" around it to prevent the tab from snagging. Not like these...I find this type to be troublesome: http://kitchendinner.com/img/Electronics/cables-unlimited-14-cat5e-snagless2914.jpg
> 
> This type, I like very much, though: http://www.strutmanelectronics.com/images/a3l791-50-s.jpg


I like the first ones better. The second style I can never get my thumb to press properly because the two rails get in my way!


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## jp1203

I like the second ones, because I have relatively small fingers, so I can still press them fine.

I find a lot of the first type have a bad design, where it's nearly impossible to push the tab.


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## namenotfound

JStergis said:


> Some of the mass-produced cables have little "guide rails" around it to prevent the tab from snagging. Not like these...I find this type to be troublesome: http://kitchendinner.com/img/Electronics/cables-unlimited-14-cat5e-snagless2914.jpg
> 
> This type, I like very much, though: http://www.strutmanelectronics.com/images/a3l791-50-s.jpg


I have the second one (I have both styles), and I still managed to break the little plastic locking piece on it. One side locks in, and the other side now has the ability to fall out... And it's the longest one I have, 50' so it comes in handy quite a bit for the times when my Wi-Fi breaks and I have to make a wired connection.


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## JohnWill

The problem with the boots for cables is when you're crimping your own cables, you can't have the molded on ones, and the others slip down the cable.


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