# Space Heaters



## diablo75 (Sep 7, 2006)

What's the most efficient kind (in terms of energy consumption), and who makes one that's good as well as cheap?

I think I remember reading somewhere that the oil filled heaters are the most efficient because they can radiate more heat or something...


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## Wino (Dec 1, 2001)

I use kerosene heaters and quite satisfied. Even with the cost of fuel today it's cheaper than the cost of kicking up the thermostat on natural gas furnace these days. Electric space heaters are extremely efficient during power outages.


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## johnpost (Dec 18, 2005)

the most efficient are quartz electric heaters, they heat with IR radiation
mostly only heating people and not the air. advantage is they use very
little electricity to make you warm (relative to heating all the air
in the room), disadvantage is that you have to be close to them
(within 6 feet) to feel the heat. so they work well for a lightly
used room or where people will be in a small area.

the oil filled convection radiators work well and are very
safe relative to other styles (there is no hot surface to
touch or heat enough to start objects on fire) so is
very good for rooms with kids or elderly. they are quiet.
they work by warming all the air in the room.

keeping humidity between 30 and 60 percent will
make you feel warmer and make better use of
heating dollars.

kerosene heaters or any heaters doing combustion need to
be ventilated to prevent carbon monoxide buildup, they also
need fresh air for combustion. these need to be used 
following lots of safety rules so as to not kill yourself
or burn your house down. lots of people in the usa 
have those disasters because they don't. they are
widely used safely in japan and korea, so they can be used.

any space heating device, electric or direct combustion,
radiant or convective, needs to be used with caution.
people all the time kill family and burn houses because
it was used for too long a time or too close to objects
that could burn.


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## Wino (Dec 1, 2001)

johnpost said:


> ....................................kerosene heaters or any heaters doing combustion need to
> be ventilated to prevent carbon monoxide buildup, they also
> need fresh air for combustion. these need to be used
> following lots of safety rules so as to not kill yourself
> ...


Not to get into an argument, but all space heaters regardless of type are dangerous. My kerosene heaters have been in use for about 8-9 years, are non-ventilated and portable around the house where needed. I have carbon monoxide detectors and they have never shown any levels present during use of kerosene heaters. Doesn't mean they can't, but if kept in good condition and maintained properly should not be a problem. Most of the deaths in our area are contributed to natural gas furnaces that are not maintained or some idiot using their charcoal or gas BBQ grill for a heater indoors. I was very leery of using the kerosene heaters, but due to frequent electrical outages in our area, prefer them over electric and have become comfortable with using them. Their 23,000 BTU output makes things very cozy & toasty.

If burned and extinguished properly, they produce little, if any, odor.


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## lexmarks567 (Aug 13, 2006)

I use electric space heater. I had 2 that I used a long time ago when I thought the furnece quit but turns out was just a TV that blew up and emitted that smell. i use one small space heater in my bedroom has its the coldest do to a crawl space above the closet


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## johnpost (Dec 18, 2005)

there are two uses of the term ventilated and we
used in different ways.

in the device sense, ventilated means that it needs
a exhaust pipe to the outside, also maybe combustion
air supply from outside.

in the dwelling and environmental sense ventilated 
means that there needs to have air exchange.

when portable kerosene space heaters are said
to be nonventilated means they don't need a
flue or air supply, they can be open in a room.
they do produce carbon monoxide and use up
oxygen, that ventilation can be done by having 
the house leaky to the outside or having doors
being opened occassionally.

the use of carbon monoxide detectors is a
good suggestion. any house that has
a combustion heating device, that includes
furnace or boiler in the basement and gas
water heaters and wood stoves and 
wood/gas fireplaces, should have one.
if you use a nonventilated kerosene
space heater they are what might
keep you from dying. those detectors
have a 4 to 6 year (as i recall without
verifying) lifetime, the sensor becomes
less sensitive overtime until it stops
being sensitve enough to be a 
lifesaving alarm.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Actually, all electric heaters will have exactly the same efficiency, 3.4 BTU/Watt. While some heaters may be more effective at putting the heat where you want it, you'll get the same amount of heat from any resistance heater.


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## SouthParkXP101 (Jun 2, 2006)

I had a nice old holmes in ohio for the garage .......


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## lexmarks567 (Aug 13, 2006)

SouthParkXP101 said:


> I had a nice old holmes in ohio for the garage .......


i don't think I can put a heater in my garage to much gas fumes from the small engines i repair


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## SouthParkXP101 (Jun 2, 2006)

i had a small garage in ohio that just had my mower and snow attachments etc.... i also had a huge NG Peerless heater hanging from the celing:up:


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## lexmarks567 (Aug 13, 2006)

SouthParkXP101 said:


> i had a small garage in ohio that just had my mower and snow attachments etc.... i also had a huge NG Peerless heater hanging from the celing:up:


so with 5 gallions of gas and 3 lawnmowers 2 snowblowers and any small engines clents drop off Im fine as long as the heater is off the ground


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## SouthParkXP101 (Jun 2, 2006)

yea i would be careful whatever you do 

maybe put one in a close room and vent the heat to the garage?


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## lexmarks567 (Aug 13, 2006)

SouthParkXP101 said:


> yea i would be careful whatever you do
> 
> maybe put one in a close room and vent the heat to the garage?


its a detached garage with power to it.


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## SouthParkXP101 (Jun 2, 2006)

hmmm, im not sure .....


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## stinger127 (Jan 30, 2007)

I have a older 9 room house, 6 down stairs and 3 very nice big rooms up stairs, plenty of plugs but no heat. I have a brand new, well almost 2 year old, oil boiler, tank, lines, the works. I leave the inside entrance door to upstairs open and it never goes below 68° upstairs. My dinning room and living room are almost like one except for a nice oak half height wall. Because of the heat going up stairs I supplement these 2 room that we are mostly in with one portable oil filled DeLong radiator. We put it on mostly every night for 2 hours then shut it off for about 30 minutes and back on for another 2 hours. 
Our electric bill has gone up about $15.00-$20.00 per month in the winter.
Best investment I ever made. The DeLong is great. The only thing I found was that on a older wall plug the wall box and the heater plug will heat up after 2 hours. In my new electric outlets I can leave them on as long as I want to.
So 120 hours a month cost us tops $20.00 per month. Of course thats New England electric prices. That may give you something about the cost of it. The heat from the DeLong is really great. Much better heat and longer lasting then any other that I have had in my 12 years here.


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## johnpost (Dec 18, 2005)

that's a good caution on high current draw electrical devices.
high current draw will cause a recepticle and plug
to deteriorate faster.

if a recepticle, plug or cord ever gets too hot to hold and
keep your hand on then it is a hazard.

recepticles over time will loosen or corrode and should
be replaced if they get hot. plug prongs should be
cleaned shiney and bent slightly to give a tighter fit
if needed.

for appliances that are used frequently or
draw high current or are pluged/unplugged
alot then you are better off getting the high
priced recepticles (2 or 3 $USA). they will 
last longer and are safer then the $0.33USA
recepticles.

if you ever hear or see sparks (you can also
hear static on a nearby AM radio) when you wiggle a
plug then you need to fix that.


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## GoneForNow (Jul 22, 2001)

The best space heater, bar none,...............................a home in Miami.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

gbrumb said:


> The best space heater, bar none,...............................a home in Miami.


Not during the hurricane season.


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## stinger127 (Jan 30, 2007)

Wasn't that tornadoes that just hit Florida? Seems they have been getting hit by almost everything that Mother nature has to offer. I wonder why Mother nature has decided to hit them so much in the last few years? I vacation there often but I don't know, I will maybe have to rethink it.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

stinger127 said:


> Wasn't that tornadoes that just hit Florida? Seems they have been getting hit by almost everything that Mother nature has to offer. I wonder why Mother nature has decided to hit them so much in the last few years? I vacation there often but I don't know, I will maybe have to rethink it.


Mother nature keeps sending out messages but people just continue to ignore them.

I think I would find another place warm to live. Seems like Arizona does not have a lot of problems in that regard but maybe I have missed them


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## GoneForNow (Jul 22, 2001)

wacor said:


> Not during the hurricane season.


Why? Then its just hot and wet.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

gbrumb said:


> Why? Then its just hot and wet.


Hot and wet is fine when it comes to sex otherwise not willing to experiment.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

wacor said:


> Mother nature keeps sending out messages but people just continue to ignore them.
> 
> I think I would find another place warm to live. Seems like Arizona does not have a lot of problems in that regard but maybe I have missed them


The water table is dropping in Arizona like a stone, and it won't be that long until there's a major water crisis there. They already have lots of issues with sinkholes...


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> The water table is dropping in Arizona like a stone, and it won't be that long until there's a major water crisis there. They already have lots of issues with sinkholes...


I am aware of the water issues. 
There are many reasons for it but predominately I think it has to do with over development. 
I know that the southwest has many issues with regards to water rights.
Unfortunately other states assume they will have the same problem and try to use a one fix for all to deal with it.

I guess if you can have water flown in then it would be a pretty great place to live. 

sorry about the hijack.


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## Fidelista (Jan 17, 2004)

stinger127 said:


> Wasn't that tornadoes that just hit Florida? Seems they have been getting hit by almost everything that Mother nature has to offer. I wonder why Mother nature has decided to hit them so much in the last few years? I vacation there often but I don't know, I will maybe have to rethink it.


Cubans!!!! Mother nature hates Cubans.  >f


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## diablo75 (Sep 7, 2006)

I bought an oil filled radiating space heater, and I'd have to say it works pretty damn good. My bed room used to be a garage before I moved in, so the house wasn't built with vents leading from the furnace to that room. The heater takes care of that problem pretty nicely, even when running in it's lowest mode of 600 watts with temperature regulation. The oil provides a form of "momentum", I guess. I think I read somewhere that they're more efficient.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

See my previous post. 


> Actually, all electric heaters will have exactly the same efficiency, 3.4 BTU/Watt. While some heaters may be more effective at putting the heat where you want it, you'll get the same amount of heat from any resistance heater.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> See my previous post.


I wonder though that if using it to maintain heat in a room where the unit is going on and off if the one Diablo purchased would not in the end be more efficient. thought I had seen where they were and if so based on your comment it would have to do with the oil retaining heat and emitting it when the heater is off.


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## GoneForNow (Jul 22, 2001)

Fidelista said:


> Cubans!!!! Mother nature hates Cubans.  >f


No, just you.


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

wacor said:


> I wonder though that if using it to maintain heat in a room where the unit is going on and off if the one Diablo purchased would not in the end be more efficient. thought I had seen where they were and if so based on your comment it would have to do with the oil retaining heat and emitting it when the heater is off.


No, JW is quite correct that for any electric heating (excluding heat pumps) heat out = power in.

Even rusty barbed wire if heated with 1,000 watt hours will give off 1,000 watt hours of heat.

The oil filled heater may retain a little heat when switched off, but it is exactly the same amount of heat that it took to heat the oil in the first place. You don't get something for nothing.

If you want figures grater than unity, you have to look at heat pumps, where the heat is extracted from outside and released inside. Then you can get up to around 300% efficiency instead of 100% for any other heater.


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## guitar21 (Nov 6, 2006)

oil heater nice and quiet i hate fan heater cheap to run and safe


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

As mentioned, the oil filled heater may make the room more comfortable and heat more evenly, but it's not more efficient. I like the oil filled heater because it doesn't get that hot. We use one when my grandson comes and sleeps in the spare room, it's more efficient and convenient than turning up the temperature of the whole second floor.


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

A fan heater will better distribute the heat, so may be more "effective" but no more "efficient" as pointed out above, as all passive electric heating is 100% efficient.

The oil heater is better for bedroom use, as the surface temperature is lower (but larger) and does not dry the air out as much, but at the disadvantage that the heat rises, so by the time its comfortable at body level (where you want it), its quite hot at ceiling level (where you do not need it). Some small thermocycling of the air will occur, but a fan assisted electric heater will distribute the air more evenly. But noisily...

As an aside, I act as an "independent expert" for a regulatory complaints authority, and many of the complaints of high power accounts are from users of oil column heaters, as they make no noise and are therefore left on by accident for days or weeks when not really required.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

JohnWill said:


> Actually, all electric heaters will have exactly the same efficiency, 3.4 BTU/Watt. While some heaters may be more effective at putting the heat where you want it, you'll get the same amount of heat from any resistance heater.


This gem of information cannot be overemphasized. No matter what method of distribution, no matter what design or the claims of the manufacturers, the physics is the same for all of them. If you go electric, buy a good quality, cheap heater. You'll no doubt find a 1500 Watt max, and they all produce the same amount of heat, from $200 quartz to $15 minis. The only difference is that the ones with blowers use slightly more power for the blowers themselves, so those without blowers are slightly more efficient in producing heat. But the need for a blower will need to be determined by your situation. Heat that rises directly to the ceiling decreases the sense of warmth.

They are expensive to run. In an area where the rate is 10¢/kilowatt-hour, running the heater full-time at the max setting, it will run $100/month.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

FWIW, I run the ceiling fan on low speed to move the hot air around, seems to help...


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

You need a decent voltage over there, as we have 230v, our heaters are usually 2.3 kW (10 amps at 230v) rated but usually deliver (and consume) about 2.4 kW, due to the voltage sitting at the high end of the allowable range (216 to 243 volts)

Much of the ~ 20 watts of fan consumption is also heat, but probably in line with JW's use of a ceiling fan in real terms.

A quite reasonable quality two heat setting 1.1 and 2.3 kW fan heater can be purchased for ~US$10 here.


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## Eric2007 (Mar 6, 2007)

:up:

By far the most efficient, quietest, longest lasting Gas (LP or NG) Space Heater on the market is a Rinnai and the best place to buy one online (shipped free of any damage) is at Houseneeds.com in VT. I had the following shipped to me in CA and it was triple wrapped in buble rap and extra cardboard:
http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/Heat.../rinnai/rinnaiheatersmainpage.htm#spaceheater

Ask anyone!


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Running gas heaters in an unvented room is asking to die of CO poisoning!


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## Eric2007 (Mar 6, 2007)

Correct - I should have mentioned "Direct-Vent"...


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## Eric2007 (Mar 6, 2007)

It continues to bogel my mind why Rinnai does continue to offer vent-free models when they suggest only running one with the window open. Lack if logic?


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