# Trying to save software for a OLD Computer



## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

Hi
I'm trying to fix a computer for my father- n-law, it is used to transmit images to a embroidery machine. These computer is so old the the cmos uses 8 AA batteries instead of a lithium battery. It runs win 3.11, it has a keyboard error, I've tried replacing the keyboard but the error continues. I would use a usb keyboard, but the computer doesnt have usb. I would trash the computer all together and get a new one if not for one problem, the program that is used to communicate with the embroidery machine is in floppy disk whick arent being read. Its no surprise to me that after all this time the floppies went bad, but the company claims they no longer distribute this software. They claim they only carry software for their newer models. So I want to take out the software from the hard drive and make a secure backup, but I'm not sure how to go about. I remember a frien of mine long ago did something similar, but he is no longer around to ask. Any help will be appreciated. thanks


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

Have you tried the floppies in another machine to see if they can be read?

If they can't be, and the original computer was working, just pull the hard disk out and stick it in another machine as the primary drive. If the original Operating System was intact on the hard disk (MSDOS 5/6.x & WFW3.11) the system should boot. You can then attempt copying what you need to new floppies.

What is the name of the software program?


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm going to give it a try and see how i get that old hard drive to work on a modern computer. Will i only need to extract the root directory of the program or are there other files i will need to extract in order to have a complete backup of that program? I tried the floppys on my computer and nothing, there gone.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I'd first try to determine what parameters were used for the old drive. For really ancient hardware, the drives weren't always accessed with automatic settings, but rather formatted with specific cylinders, tracks, and sectors. If you don't get this correct in the new machine, you won't be able to access the data.

If you can somehow get into the BIOS setup for the computer, it would be a big help.

If you can't determine the setting used, post the exact make/model of the hard disk. When you connect it to a machine, if you get what looks like an unformatted drive, or scrambled data, *DON'T* do any fixes until you make sure it's not the drive settings! If you do any writing to the drive with the wrong settings, the data will almost surely be gone.

Once you gain access, I'd copy everything to the other system, you can sort it out later.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

Yes, the hard drive does work with cylinders, tracks and sectors, I believe the brand was Quantum. I do remember I made a copy awhile back of the hard drive so everyhting should be there, now the problem is extracting the right files. I'm curious about one thing, the computer has an ISA board with a parallel port on it, could one assume that it was placed to leave the on board parallel port for a printer, meaning I could use the parallel port of any new machine and there shouldnt be a problem since any printer will use USB?


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

The drive (if operational) should automatically be set up in the modern machine with the parameters used from/in the old machine. However, this is quite correct; "When you connect it to a machine, if you get what looks like an unformatted drive, or scrambled data, DON'T do any fixes until you make sure it's not the drive settings!" Post what you find for information, and this forum should be able to get you around those problems.

If the program was basically a "stand-alone" program (all files for it dumped into the programs main directory and possible sub-directories) a straight copy of that directory dumped onto a 'new' machine should allow it to run. In the days of MSDOS 5.x, 6.x and WFW3.11, this was generally the case.

It is possible some .dll files for the program were dumped into C:\Windows\system (on the old drive), but running the program will tell you which are missing and then you can grab those as well.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

I placed the hard drive in another computer and it loaded into dos. I tried to run the programs, but it asked me to "please connect security device". Im guessing it wants to be connected to the embroidery machine before it will run. I tried running the copy of the programs on another computer, but all that would happen is a dos type window would appear briefly with the message of "please connect security device".


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

Good so far. Can you ascertain exactly what this "security device" is?

If you get this message, it's an indication that the program is trying to run, and all files necessary (thus far anyway) are there.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

My father n law took the computer with him, i told him to run the program, but he said it still doesnt. of course hes not the ideal person to do a test run, but I cant stop by till the weekend, what did cross my mind is what if the program is trying to run with the previous settings, which ask it to look for the the ISA card's parallel port and not the LPT1 on the new machine, so it will continue to look for the the connection, but since the program doesnt run so that we can change the settings, im doomed! Does that theory make any sense?


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## cwwozniak (Nov 29, 2005)

enigma_691 said:


> the computer has an ISA board with a parallel port on it, could one assume that it was placed to leave the on board parallel port for a printer
> 
> ...
> 
> "please connect security device".


It may be that the embroidery software needs a hardware security "dongle" plugged into a parallel port in order to work. A quick Google search for the words* Dongle* and *Embroidery* got a number of hits that suggest that different programs used the dongles for copy protection. Does your father-in-law know if this is the case?


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

my father n law's computer knowledge is zero. Just out of curiousity, is it possible for a virus to knock out the keyboard?


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

It doesn't sound like the old system was ever on-line, so a virus is an unlikely prospect.


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## cwwozniak (Nov 29, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> It doesn't sound like the old system was ever on-line, so a virus is an unlikely prospect.


Back in the dark ages (before the internet), viruses were known to spread via infected floppy disks.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

True, but I get the sense that this machine has done nothing but run this application.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

Actually the computer was previously infected with a boot virus, my father n law put a floppy someone had given him and boom, compuet wouldnt start. Im just not aware if a virus is capable of disabling keyboard "keyboard error",


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I'm not aware of such a virus either.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

I've been reading around, and everything points to motherboard failure, now how can i save the situation. I'm led to believe that the board with the parallel port must be used, maybe it differes from the regular parallel port. But its ISA, no motherboard today will accept it. And buying something used is a crap shoot.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Well, while buying used is a crap-shoot, it's also pretty cheap. As you say, what you really want is some old Pentium I or Pentium II board, not something really new. There are still some motherboards that come with parallel ports FWIW.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131527

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135011

I could keep going, but you get the idea. For $150-200, you can have a new MB, processor, video board, and memory. I think the sticking point might be the video for Windows 3.1, maybe you can find someone with a really old video board that still has Windows 3.1 drivers.


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

Have you tried new batteries? I have a very old system that did the same thing (keyboard error). This particular computer originally has an odd ball battery arrangement where there was several batteries series together with the positive and negative connection actually soldered to the mobo with wire leads. Anyway, when I checked the output of the original battery configuration the reading was well below what it should be. Here's the funny part. Since I could not find a replacement battery, I made my own and rigged it up to the computer. Low and behold the keyboard error disappeared. As a matter of fact, I still have the computer and believe it or not it still boots up just fine.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

this system unlike I originally thought, doesnt even have wondows 3.11, only dos, my father n law claims he changed the batteries. Not long ago I had changed the batteries also, and it too had the batteries the same way soldered to the motherboard.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

If it just runs DOS, then it should be trivial to transition to a new MB, even my latest machines run MS-DOS just fine.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

but finding a motherboard that will use the isa board is a problem


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## nj2b (Sep 9, 2006)

enigma_691 said:


> but finding a motherboard that will use the isa board is a problem


Try google for "Socket 7" since you may find a supplier still selling them. Most of those were ISA boards with a few PCI slots, or if timing isn't a problem with the software, many of the PII class boards came with both bus types... give pricewatch a try.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Actually, there are probably tons of old systems that can be had for a song and would run this application just fine. Try eBay.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

I got a copy badcopy pro and it was able to retrieve the files of the floppy that had gone bad. Hope they actually woek, not sure if its a actual program or just a driver for the board. we shall see.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

Anybody know where I can get Dos


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## cwwozniak (Nov 29, 2005)

enigma_691 said:


> Anybody know where I can get Dos


E-Bay may be one source ....

http://search.ebay.com/MS-DOS_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300QQsatitleZMSQ2dDOS


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## nj2b (Sep 9, 2006)

enigma_691 said:


> Anybody know where I can get Dos


You can download freedos, which is supposedly compatible with MSDOS.


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## enigma_691 (Nov 27, 2006)

Problem apparently resolved, I took the parallel port board and I place it in a old compac I had laying around. I erased the hard drive and I copied the the backup I had of the other machine.
It gave me an error about command.com, so I found the old DOS floppies my father n law had around and I copied the command.com to it. It booted normaly like the other one used to. Now all that is left is to see how it reacts when it is connected to the embroidery machine.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

There's that "old" machine I mentioned. 

I suggest a backup of the software once you get things sorted out so you don't have the same issue a year from now.


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