# Solved: lexmarkx4580 networking problem



## groundog (May 6, 2011)

basically i can't get my printer to print wirelessly. It works on my windows computers wirelessly
I'm using lion (10.7), printer model (4580), have downloaded the latest drivers for lion from lexmark and reinstalled from the lexmark disk
I'm basically looking for steps to connect to it as i can't find anything on the web that is the same situation as me.


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

When you open *System Preferences -> Printers & Scan* and then click the + button and choose add other printer, does the printer appear in the default tab or the Windows tab in the window that opens?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

under windows tab under workgroup then under my windows pc but it only shows up sometimes under there


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

groundog said:


> under windows tab under workgroup then under my windows pc but it only shows up sometimes under there


The times it does appear, if you select it, what happens?

P.S. This printer is listed as supported by OS X and when you do select it the OS should do a software update and automatically download the drivers it needs.

P.S. You can also get the drivers and a Wireless setup assistant for it here: http://support.lexmark.com/index?lo...ment=SUPPORT&userlocale=EN_US&frompage=null#2


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

sorry for the slow response, I'm having some trouble getting the printer to show up under the windows tab but ill keep trying, also i forgot to mention that the printer shows up on safaris bonjour if that helps any. And yes I've downloaded and installed all of the downloads on that website


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

groundog said:


> safaris bonjour


Can you explain what you mean here?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)




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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

That is a web based configuration page for the printer itself, not for setting up the link between OS X and the printer.

If that printer supports Bonjour, which it appears it does, when you click add other printer it should be appearing in the Default tab. (give it a few seconds)

I'll see what other info I can find.

*Edit: * Do you have the firewall enabled on Mac yo are trying to add this printer to?

*Edit2: *You installed this version of the driver: http://support.lexmark.com/index?pa...en_US&osVendor=MACINTOSH&osCats=Mac+OS+X+10.6 ?

*Edit 3: *Do you know the IP of the printer?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

nope nothing on the default tab
no firewall
i didn't install that but i did just now and the installer didn't detect my printer on the network (but i remember the 4500 series one did)
yes i know the ip and mac address
also i just checked, the printer can see my macbook for scanning (its in the list of computers to scan to)


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

Can you print out the network setup page (this is done directly on printer using control panel) so we can check to see if the printer is using network infrastructure mode or network ad hoc mode?

*Edit: *I was just looking at the Mac manual for that printer and it says that you need to connect it via USB to setup network options. Since you said you can see it on your Windows machine, is it safe to say you can access the printer settings from that machine if we need to change anything?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

and yes i have been looking at some settings on the pc so yes
also I'm leaving from tuesday to thursday - so don't give up on me :L


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

Everything looks OK.

(Assuming all machines on your LAN are using 192.168.2.x subnet)
P.S. It's OK to post the complete IP address for LAN addresses. That range isn't routable on the Internet and doesn't tell us anything important. Most people are using the same subnet range.

At this point, maybe temporarily connect the printer by USB and make sure that works, then we know for sure it's totally a network issue.


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)




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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

If you start */Applications/Utilities/Console*, click show log list button and in the list on the left you should find a *cups* folder. In there should be three files, access.log, error.log and page.log.

If you can paste the end of access.log and error.log, should help.

P.S. Is that with the printer attached via USB?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

access.log == localhost - root [19/Sep/2011:16:22:48 +0100] "POST /admin HTTP/1.1" 200 210 CUPS-Add-Modify-Printer successful-ok
error.log - there was a ton of stuff on this one but heres the last few lines, D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] terminate called throwing an exceptionDEBUG: Sent 16437 bytes...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: bytes written for sheet 1 = 7862400
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] End of messages
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state=3(idle)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state-message="/Library/Printers/Lexmark/2007/LexmarkCUPSDriver.app/Contents/MacOS/LexmarkCUPSDriver failed"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state-reasons=none

also yes that photo was taken when it was attached with usb


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

Can you attach the full log then, or paste more of it.


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] The following messages were recorded from 16:19:32 to 16:19:35
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Adding start banner page "none".
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Queued on "Lexmark_3500_4500_Series" by "liammarr".
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] File of type application/pdf queued by "liammarr".
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Setting job-hold-until to no-hold
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Adding end banner page "none".
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Job released by user.
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] job-sheets=none,none
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[0]="Lexmark_3500_4500_Series"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[1]="27"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[2]="liammarr"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[3]="Microsoft Word - Document1"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[4]="1"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[5]="AP_ColorMatchingMode=AP_ApplicationColorMatching AP_D_InputSlot= nocollate com.apple.print.DocumentTicket.PMSpoolFormat=application/pdf com.apple.print.JobInfo.PMApplicationName=Word com.apple.print.JobInfo.PMJobName=Microsoft\ Word\ -\ Document1 com.apple.print.JobInfo.PMJobOwner=Liam\ Marr com.apple.print.PrinterInfo.PMColorDeviceID..n.=25281 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMColorSpaceModel..n.=0 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMColorSyncProfileID..n.=21294 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMCopies..n.=1 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMCopyCollate..b. com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMFirstPage..n.=1 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMLastPage..n.=2147483647 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMPageRange..a.0..n.=1 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMPageRange..a.1..n.=2147483647 DestinationPrinterID=Lexmark_3500_4500_Series media=A4 pserrorhandler-requested=standard job-uuid=urn:uuid:366f5907-afb4-3dce-68ab-d54a5fac0236 job-originating-host-name=localhost time-at-creation=1316445572 time-at-processing=1316445572 job-impressions=1 com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMTotalSidesImaged..n.=1 sides=one-sided Duplex=None com.apple.print.PrintSettings.PMTotalBeginPages..n.=1 PageSize=A4"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] argv[6]="/private/var/spool/cups/d00027-001"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[0]="<CFProcessPath>"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[1]="CUPS_CACHEDIR=/private/var/spool/cups/cache"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[2]="CUPS_DATADIR=/usr/share/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[3]="CUPS_DOCROOT=/usr/share/doc/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[4]="CUPS_FONTPATH=/usr/share/cups/fonts"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[5]="CUPS_REQUESTROOT=/private/var/spool/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[6]="CUPS_SERVERBIN=/usr/libexec/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[7]="CUPS_SERVERROOT=/private/etc/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[8]="CUPS_STATEDIR=/private/etc/cups"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[9]="HOME=/private/var/spool/cups/tmp"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[10]="PATH=/usr/libexec/cups/filter:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[11]="[email protected]"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[12]="SOFTWARE=CUPS/1.5.0"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[13]="TMPDIR=/private/var/spool/cups/tmp"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[14]="USER=root"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[15]="CUPS_SERVER=/private/var/run/cupsd"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[16]="CUPS_ENCRYPTION=IfRequested"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[17]="IPP_PORT=631"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[18]="CHARSET=utf-8"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[19]="LANG=en_US.UTF-8"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[20]="APPLE_LANGUAGE=en-US"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[21]="PPD=/private/etc/cups/ppd/Lexmark_3500_4500_Series.ppd"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[22]="RIP_MAX_CACHE=128m"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[23]="CONTENT_TYPE=application/pdf"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[24]="DEVICE_URI=usb://Lexmark/3500-4500%20Series?serial=1410690051114YM"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[25]="PRINTER_INFO=Lexmark 3500-4500 Series"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[26]="PRINTER_LOCATION=MacBook Pro 1"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[27]="PRINTER=Lexmark_3500_4500_Series"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[28]="PRINTER_STATE_REASONS=none"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[29]="CUPS_FILETYPE=document"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[30]="FINAL_CONTENT_TYPE=printer/Lexmark_3500_4500_Series"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] envp[31]="AUTH_I****"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Started filter /usr/libexec/cups/filter/cgpdftoraster (PID 514)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Started filter /Library/Printers/Lexmark/2007/LexmarkCUPSDriver.app/Contents/MacOS/LexmarkCUPSDriver (PID 515)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Started backend /usr/libexec/cups/backend/usb (PID 516)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] usb: AppleLanguages="en-US"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] STATE: +connecting-to-device
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] `/private/var/spool/cups/d00027-001' has 1 pages.
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Looking for 'Lexmark 3500-4500 Series'
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Directory "/Library/Printers/Lexmark/LexmarkUSBClassDriver.bundle" permissions OK (040775/uid=0/gid=80).
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Directory "/System/Library/Printers/Libraries/USBGenericPrintingClass.plugin" permissions OK (040755/uid=0/gid=0).
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] load_classdriver(/System/Library/Printers/Libraries/USBGenericPrintingClass.plugin) (kr:0x00000000)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] load_classdriver(/Library/Printers/Lexmark/LexmarkUSBClassDriver.bundle) (kr:0x00000000)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Opening connection
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Directory "/Library/Printers/Lexmark/LexmarkUSBClassDriver.bundle" permissions OK (040775/uid=0/gid=80).
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Directory "/System/Library/Printers/Libraries/USBGenericPrintingClass.plugin" permissions OK (040755/uid=0/gid=0).
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] load_classdriver(/System/Library/Printers/Libraries/USBGenericPrintingClass.plugin) (kr:0x00000000)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] load_classdriver(/Library/Printers/Lexmark/LexmarkUSBClassDriver.bundle) (kr:0x00000000)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster - opened PPD file "/private/etc/cups/ppd/Lexmark_3500_4500_Series.ppd"...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: size->width = 595.2, size->length = 841.8, size->top = 837, size->bottom = 36, size->left = 9.6, size->right = 585.6
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: PreferredRotation = -90
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster - languageLevel = 3, mediaBox.size.width = 595.2, mediaBox.size.height = 841.8
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] STATE: -connecting-to-device
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Sending data to printer.
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Set job-printer-state-message to "Sending data to printer.", current level=INFO
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: band width = 4800, bytesPerRow = 19200, band height = 546, height = 6675
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: context width = 4800, height = 546, bitsPerComponent = 8, bitsPerPixel = 32, bytesPerRow = 19200, bitmapInfo = 5, resolution = (600.000000, 600.000000) 
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] NOT using display list
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 8192 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Lexmark_3500_4500_Series(515,0x101a81000) malloc: *** auto malloc[515]: error: GC operation on unregistered thread. Thread registered implicitly. Break on auto_zone_thread_registration_error() to debug.
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Wrote 8139 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Wrote 53 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 8192 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Wrote 8192 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 53 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Wrote 53 bytes of print data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 6 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Printing page 1 of 1
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Set job-printer-state-message to "Printing page 1 of 1", current level=INFO
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 64 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 14 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] Read 9 bytes of back-channel data...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 2011-09-19 16:19:34.407 LexmarkCUPSDriver[515:1613] *** Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSRangeException', reason: '*** -[__NSCFString substringToIndex:]: Range or index out of bounds'
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] *** First throw call stack:
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] (
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 0 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8737b986 __exceptionPreprocess + 198
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007fff8bd14d5e objc_exception_throw + 43
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 2 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8737b7ba +[NSException raise:format:arguments:] + 106
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 3 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8737b744 +[NSException raise:format:] + 116
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 4 Foundation 0x00007fff844d04c4 -[NSString substringToIndex:] + 98
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 5 LexmarkCUPSDriver 0x00000001000036aa main + 5649
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 6 LexmarkCUPSDriver 0x0000000100000ed0 start + 52
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] 7 ??? 0x0000000000000006 0x0 + 6
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] )
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] terminate called throwing an exceptionDEBUG: Sent 16437 bytes...
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] cgpdftoraster: bytes written for sheet 1 = 7862400
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] End of messages
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state=3(idle)
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state-message="/Library/Printers/Lexmark/2007/LexmarkCUPSDriver.app/Contents/MacOS/LexmarkCUPSDriver failed"
D [19/Sep/2011:16:19:40 +0100] [Job 27] printer-state-reasons=none


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

I take from this log that printing isn't working from USB either, correct?

If so I would do the following.

1) Unplug Printer
2) Start */Applications/Utilities/Terminal*
3) Type the following in Terminal

```
sudo rm -rf /Library/Printers/Lexmark
```
4) Restart the computer
5) Attach the printer by USB
6) Open */System Preferences -> Print & Scan* and select printer
7) At this point OS X should do a software update and look for the drivers
8) Try to print something
9) If it fails, post log again.

Do not install any drivers manually.


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

ok this is weird it said that it was installed incorrectly and i tried printing and it works perfectly (on usb)
















anyway i have tried a few times to download the thing but it never works just keeps displaying the messages above


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

So you removed the software I suggested and rebooted and tried printing and got that?

If those files are removed, it should not know about that Lexmark folder anymore, and from that error it's looking there still.

I need to know for sure you followed every step to be able to narrow down the issue.


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

ok that works perfectly now on usb but still can't see the printer on default tab for wireless


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

Does it still appear in the Bonjour section of Safari?

Are you using a router or a switch on your LAN? If a router, which model?


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

yes its still in bonjour
i think its this one http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=299175


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

groundog said:


> yes its still in bonjour
> i think its this one http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=299175


OK, go back to *System Preferences - > Print & Scan*
Click the '+' button to add a printer.
Click the IP Tab.
Under the protocol pulldown - choose HP Jetdirect - Socket
Under address - put the IP address of the printer when connected via WiFi
Under name - your choice

Under the print Using pulldown - You should see the driver for the printer (Since it was installed when connected by USB)

Try printing. (If still fails the cups log again and if possible can you tell with that printer if its even receiving any data? aka blinking lights, receiving message etc.)

If that fails, you can try these steps also (even though its talking about OS X 10.6): https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2133954?start=0&tstart=0

Hope that helps.

*Edit: *According to Lexmark ( http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=content&id=OS23&locale=EN&userlocale=EN_US ), this printer is supported in Lion and should automatically download drivers via OS X Software Update like I first thought. I'm not sure why it's not showing up in Default tab of print dialog box but is in safari under bonjour section. The only thing I guess would be the router is causing an issue. If you have a network switch or a crossover cable you could try connecting the computer and printer manually and by setting static IPs to test.


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

These might help: http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=content&id=OS24&locale=EN&userlocale=EN_US

http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=content&locale=EN&userlocale=EN_UK&id=SO6783


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

ok i added it with ip tab and it worked after i had selected the correct 'print using' as there were 4 of them
it now works perfectly, thanks so much and sorry for the time its taken
thank you


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## Headrush (Feb 9, 2005)

groundog said:


> ok i added it with ip tab and it worked after i had selected the correct 'print using' as there were 4 of them
> it now works perfectly, thanks so much and sorry for the time its taken
> thank you


Awesome. 
It's still curious that it didn't appear in the Default tab, but it's working which is what matters.

One thing to watch out for is if the IP address for the printer changes. There are three ways to handle that:

1) Edit the printer settings and manually change the IP each time it changes.
2) Use static IP addresses
3) The easiest method and the one I use, in your router settings, set up an IP reservation so that the printer is given the same IP all the time. (The printer is still set to use DHCP, but the router makes sure it gets the same IP based on it's MAC address)


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## groundog (May 6, 2011)

yeah I've already assigned a ip reservation, dealt with that before. thanks again


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