# properties brings up the Blue Screen



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi ... I've been given an old laptop. Its quite old for a PC,
in fact i think it would be old enough for a driving license, its got Win95 with a silly problem. when i ask for properties it gives me the Blue Screen with the following message: A fatal exception has occured at 0028 : 00000017 any key etc etc.
The PC is a Compaq elite 47/5 and the rechargeable batteries are way past their best. Otherwise its ok, 24 cm liquid crystal screen in colour.
Any ideas?
John.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

maybe theres somewhere i could look up this exception code?
now it happens with other operations too.
john


----------



## eddie5659 (Mar 19, 2001)

Sorry to sound like a dodo but when you ask for properties, where are you? Is it the control panel or somewhere else?
Hang on, think I've twigged. You get an error so when you click properties you get the Blue screen. Okay. Whats the initial error?

eddie


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

eddie5659,
thats not quite what i meant.
If i click on the 'properties' option,
(from anywhere that has a properties option),
the display changes to a blue screen with an error message.

This is particularly annoying because i dont know what most of the stuff is on this m/c.

john


----------



## Shadow2531 (Apr 30, 2001)

I was getting something similar to this on my older laptop running win95. Whenever I would right click on my computer to get to system properties, I would get a blue screen. After messing with the computer I deleted my swap file just for the heck of it in dos which was on another partition then windows created a new one and everything was fine.I used a fixed 240MB swap file. Don't know if this will help.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Shadow2531,
it might help.
i'll try anything .... except rubbing it all out.
When i right click on 'My Computer',
i get the usual options come up, including 'properties'
When i click on 'properties'
I get the blue screen with error message.
do you think the swap file may be at fault?
john


----------



## Shadow2531 (Apr 30, 2001)

I am not sure if it is the swap file or not. That just seemed to fix the problem on my puter. It could have been just a coincidence that the puter started working after I started messeing with the swap file in win95. When win95 gets messed up. I will mess with it for hours and sometimes it just starts working. You can also try changing the shell=explorer command under boot in your system.ini file to load winfile.exe (you can load winfile by going to run then typing winfile. It is located in c:windows) program manager instead of explorer. use sysedit to change system.ini file. then when you computer loads up again. It won't load explorer as the shell. Then you should at least be able to navigate around to open explorer manually to get to the control and then goto properties that way. Then if that works try changing it back to load explorer and maybe it will work. This doesn't logically make sense why it would fix anything, but it is something else you could try. Win98 with cd burner and everything backed up works great. Then you can just wipe out everything and start over again if absolutely necessary.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Shadow2531, Its Win95, and i dont have any of the original diskettes. Ive never had a laptop before, and i dont even understand the docking procedure. It was two days before i found and removed the battery. I havent a clue what the string of messages and bleeps are all about, I suspect it was one of a group of such units and its bleeping for its mates, to share the current information. If i can get it to behave normally, i'll be happy.

system info: ....

Processor: 80486DX
Math co-processor: Yes
Total RAM: 15804 KB
Total Hard Disk Space: 496680 KB
Removable Media: A: 3.5 - 1.4M
Display Resolution: 640 x 480
Display Color Depth: 256
Pointing Device: StandardPS/2Port Mouse
Network: <none>
Modem: <none>
Sound Card: <none>
CD-ROM: <none>
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 95

I know its not fantastic as a computer, but its good enough for me, well it would be if it would work properly.

john


----------



## Shadow2531 (Apr 30, 2001)

I will see if I can find in actually fix on the net for that problem or something. On the old laptop that I have, I am in the process of going from win95-98, but as of right now on that particular machine, I have win95. Yesterday, while I was running the laptop on the old junky battery, I got all kinds of errors. Explorer wouldn't even load up. Then I yanked the battery out and used the power supply, ran scandisk, and everything was fine again. I just recently replaced the motherboard battery which fixed a few errors in the power on self test. so those are some things to think about. There might be hardware that needs to be removed and reconfigured via the system properties/device manager that have problems; if you can get the device manager to load up correctly. Could very well be registry related too.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Shadow2531,
I was also given two units for spares, since i found the batteries, which were camoflagued camouflaged
camaflauged cameflaged camaflajed .... 
cleverly disguised as the shape of the case, ive put the best of them into the one im using, still not a very good battery.
Its now got another stupid problem .... the small icons are now black squares, except for a few. the black squares meet top and bottom so i get a big black vertical line alongside the details where the icons should be.
I am frightened to run it without a battery in, in case the battery is part of the supply smoothing, but i do run it on the AC mains.
I didnt think of the small motherboard battery, that may well be causing probs. I ran scandisk as you said, it found some problems and said that it fixed them. No change. Id like to run inbox repair but i cant find shelliconcache.
Device manager? yes its got one.
Registry? maybe do a registry restore? would that help? 
Whats a fatal exception at 0028:00000017 ?
The whole thing is called a compaq smartstation the removable bit, alias laptop, is called a compaq elite. I found replacement batteries on the internet for £120.00
(£ = $1.4) i wont be renewing them im sorry to say.
cheers for any advice,
john


----------



## Shadow2531 (Apr 30, 2001)

Was just messin with my laptop again. I decided to not let windows control the power management. The option is in the control panel under power management. well it asked me to restart the computer for the settings to take effect. Then everything was messed up. Computer wouldn't even load. It would get all the way into windows, then I would get about 10 different blue screen errors. shell32 errors, invalid page faults, exceptions erros. protection fault errors. Well anyways power management might have something to do with it. I fixed it again after messing with it for a while. I used notepad to change the system.ini file shell= to winfile.exe. None of that worked. scandisk didn't help or anything. Then I used my custom win98 boot disk that I have and then ran scandisk with that, rebooted, and then windows loaded up with winfile as the shell. Then I switched shell= back to explorer.exe and restarted the computer and it messed up again. Did the boot disk thing again and everything is fine now until I start messing with settings. I think win98 has a better scandisk version or something. Again this may not help at all, but my laptop at least seems to run better on the ac/dc adapter than my crappy worn out batter. I have tried restoring the registry before with win98 on my desktop and it does usually work for a small problem, but not everything. You can try it, but if it is a registry error, it is probably in the older saved registries too depending on how far they go back. Since you don't have all the necessary thing to reinstall everything, it might be a while till you actually figure out what the problem is. Whenever my laptop messes up, I can get it working, but still havn't figure out exactly what I fixed. Do some searchin about win95 problems and registry fixer programs and I will do the same, and I will keep messin with my laptop making it mess up and figuring out what I did to get it working again. go ahead and email me at [email protected] if you want to communicate that way.


----------



## Bryan (Jul 3, 1999)

Why don't you delete the swapfile and see if it does do any good? It can't hurt.

At any Msdos prompt, even from within Windows

cd c:\windows
del win386.swp

Restart and let it boot into W95.

[Edited by Bryan on 05-05-2001 at 05:22 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Bryan,
cos i dont know what a swapfile is.
or what it does.
its tempting to think that it swaps files,
but i doubt that.

a previous post didnt come out properly, maybe because i had spaces to make columns.
I'll put it again, this time with dots;

system info: ....

Processor.......................80486DX 
Math co-processor.........Yes 
Total RAM.....................15804 KB 
Total Hard Disk Space...496680 KB 
Removable Media..........A.3.5 - 1.4M 
Display Resolution.........640 x 480 
Display Color Depth.......256 
Pointing Device.............StandardPS/2Port Mouse 
Network.......................<none> 
Modem.........................<none> 
Sound Card..................<none> 
CD-ROM......................<none> 
Operating System.........Microsoft Windows 95

I would be happy to remove the swap file if you think it would help. Whats it for?

Starting this m/c is weird, many 'error messages'?? come up one after the other, which i have to accept to proceed. They make no sense to me, I think that it was one of a group and its trying to share information with the others.
I dont mind all that if it would end up working properly.

Shadow2531,
mine has a facility called 'hibernation'
if the battery gets low, it puts stuff on the hard drive, then shuts itself off.
Till you recharge or change the battery, then it fires up and takes over where it was before.
Dont tell me --- they all do that ????
its all new to me.
John.


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You could try returning to the system.1st registry as a test, following the directions in this link:

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q131/4/31.ASP

Doing so permanently of course would require reinstallation of all new programs.

If you can locate video drivers for your display, you might try removing and reinstalling those. They can be a factor in the error as I believe some properties page dialogs may require "knowledge" of video driver configurations. The registry contains entries for "propertysheethandlers" which accomplish this in win98, I'm not sure about 95

Do the same errors occur in safe mode?


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin Rog,
I'd like to try that,
I read the write-up i think it says i will need win 95 cd rom, but i'll check again. Im afraid my last posting didnt come out again.
Putting dots instead of spaces seemed to work but it missed out four entries in the second column, i'll try again maybe it doesnt like the original square brackets so i'll put round ones in. I dont have any of the original diskettes for it. If you mean the files used by the machine when you say video drivers, I wouldnt want to remove them cos I dont have them on disk, but maybe i could put them aside in a different folder or something.
Just to recap ... when i click on the option 'properties'
the screen changes to a blue screen with the message: A fatal exception has occurred at 0028 : 00000017 any key etc etc 
Safe Mode .... i'll try that and see if it still happens.

now will this come out? ....


Processor..........................80486DX 
Math co-processor...........Yes 
Total RAM.........................15804 KB 
Total Hard Disk Space...496680 KB 
Removable Media..........A.3.5 - 1.4M 
Display Resolution.........640 x 480 
Display Color Depth.......256 
Pointing Device..............StandardPS/2Port Mouse 
Network.........................( none )
Modem..........................( none )
Sound Card..................( none )
CD-ROM........................( none )
Operating System.........Microsoft Windows 95

well it looks crooked on this, maybe its ok now

batteries are too flat, i'll try safe mode in a little while,

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ok bats up a bit now, started, waited for flashing square (its a compaq) pressed F10, up came a screen i've never seen before, chose something that looked right - should have made a note - never heard of it before, another menu - chose, 'defaults'
I thought well i'll see what they are, if they look ok i'll leave them alone. Screen changed .... 'defaults re-set' .... another choice: next or exit , i chose exit.
started again, went thru all those messages again, got asked for password that i dont know again, got to standard WIN95 desktop at last.
With my soul full of hope i double clicked on Computer, up came the options, with icons of black,
undaunted i put the cursor over 'properties' and clicked.
Blue screen. A fatal exception 06 has occurred at 0028 : 00000017 etc, etc,

John


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Sheesh, you went into the BIOS and reset to defaults. Not what I had in mind. Lucky you didn't do anything else there.

To get to safe mode tap the f8 key while starting up (not f10) until you see a boot menu on the screen. Select safe mode from that. This will bypass all installed non-windows programs and help verify if the problem is caused by some conflict rather Windows itself.

You don't want to try removing your Display drivers unless you know what they are and have saved them somewhere for reinstallation. You should be able to find out what they are by opening the Device Manager, clicking on + beside your Display adapter and writing down what you see. Perhaps we can locate them on the web and download them to a floppy.

Switiching back and forth between your current system.dat and the original system.1st does not require a cd, but it can be a tricky procedure for the inexperienced. You must follow instructions exactly to rename system.dat to system.xxx (or some other extension) and then rename system.1st to system.dat

You can go back and reverse the process. It must be done from DOS, so make sure you understand the procedure correctly before attempting it, everything has to be done right for it to work. Leave system.Da0 alone, that will be your backup if you screw up. Just a note, if you do this, do not type the < > angle brackets when carrying out the directions, those are used for illustration only.

Also keep in mind that since you apparently have no modem installed on this laptop, I'm not sure how you are going to be able to deal with that in any practical way; someone else will have to point you in the right direction there.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-05-2001 at 10:42 PM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

oops, ok i'll do it again.
tapping on the F8 key while starting up.
doing it now ..... 

tapping on the F8 key at about once per second,
while starting up.
top left counter up to 16384 KB ..... usual
starts bleeping ...... not usual
42 301 - Keyboard Error ..... comes up,
and at the bottom two boxes drawn in white, screen still black,
box on left says F1 boot,
Box on right says F10 computer setup.

this isnt quite what i expected.

john


----------



## brianF (Dec 2, 1999)

Try pressing the F5 key John, win95 some where F8 and some where F5 depending on the system


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK, i've left it alone, but i'll try again now using F5.
I'll do it now ......

same thing .....

3F 301 - Keyboard Error

same two boxes at the bottom,

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

how about the box bottom left ..... F1 Boot
shall i click on that?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I started it up again and got a set of choices one was safe mode
so i chose safe mode.

I now have another icon that wasnt there before,
Chklist.ms
no idea what that is, i'll come back to it

computer double click,
window comes up complete with all its icons ....
choose C ,
click file, ok so far .....
choose 'properties'
click
'this program has performed an illegal operationand will be shut down'
details:

do you want details?

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The details will tell us what module is faulting and the error address sometimes leads to a particular fix. But it sounds like a system file or registry entry is causing the problem.

Post the details.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
still in safe mode,
went into device manager,
theres a red X on'Compaq PCMCIA Controller,
I dont know what that is but its a sub-leg from
PCMCIA socket,

anything???

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Mmmmm ... last post criss crossed,
what do you want me to do with registry ??
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi
I looked in help on this m/c,
PCMCIA
stands for Personal Computer Memory Card International Association.

I've never heard of it.

any sugs ???

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

details from before,
EXPLORER caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL at 0137:bff798e9

some registers,
some Bytes,
some stack dump,

do you want all that??

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

got to go to bed now .....

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's unusual to get that kind of a kernel32 error in safe mode as it usually indicates a program conflict of some kind. Do you have a windows\options\cabs directory on the drive? If you do, it may be possible to re-run windows setup.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I'l fire it up and have a look ,
be right back

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Yes,

C/Windows/Options/Cabs ..... 35 objects

ok

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Its getting daylight,
i really should go to bed,
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I don't know whether everything necessary is there to support reinstallation of the operating system from the cabs directory, but if setup.exe is present, it probably is. You can open the directory and verify that it's there. If so and you want to take a shot at a reinstall, you will need to select the "command prompt" option from the boot menu (instead of safe mode) and at the c:\> prompt enter exactly:

c:\windows\options\cabs\setup.exe

This should begin setup. Note exactly any error messages you encounter as it proceeds and when they occur.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi, Rollin' Rog,
Sorry i havent been back for a bit,
This was taken from the MS DOS (within windows)
Yes, you said do it from dos and i will but i couldnt see how to copy-and-paste when in dos so i went back to WIN and threw up the dos window cos it has copy-and-paste, I dont want to kick off if you say its incomplete .... ok?

C:\WINDOWS>cd options

C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS>cd cabs

C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS>dir/w

Volume in drive C has no label
Volume Serial Number is 351B-10E2
Directory of C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS

[.] 
[..] 
EXTRACT.EXE 
DELTEMP.COM 
DOSSETUP.BIN 
SCANDISK.EXE 
SCANDISK.PIF
SCANPROG.EXE 
SETUP.EXE 
SETUP.TXT 
SMARTDRV.EXE 
SUHELPER.BIN
WB16OFF.EXE 
MINI.CAB
PRECOPY1.CAB
PRECOPY2.CAB
WIN95_02.CAB 
WIN95_03.CAB 
WIN95_04.CAB 
WIN95_05.CAB
WIN95_06.CAB 
WIN95_07.CAB 
WIN95_08.CAB 
WIN95_09.CAB 
WIN95_10.CAB
WIN95_11.CAB 
WIN95_12.CAB 
WIN95_13.CAB 
WIN95_14.CAB 
WIN95_15.CAB
WIN95_16.CAB 
WIN95_17.CAB 
WINSETUP.BIN 
XMSMMGR.EXE 
SAVE32.COM
README.TXT 
CHKLIST.MS

35 file(s) 33,815,209 bytes
2 dir(s) 195,674,112 bytes free

C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS>

Well it sort of looks complete,
but i wouldnt really know.

I assume the files here are those for installing the WIN95 system ???

Im happy to try this, will it wipe off the files from the C Drive?

All of your helps are much appreciated, i'll wait for a reply before i carry on,

john

ps. the list here is in a neat row but i dont know if it will stay like that.


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It looks ok to me, but I'm not a win95 person, perhaps someone with that OS might verify.

Running setup is not like a format, it will just replace system files and not erase anything else.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ok, fine i'll do that now,
could you go over the steps for me please,
cos i dont want to get it wrong,
cheers
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Shutdown the pc then startup again. Start tapping the f8 key when you see "starting windows 95".

select option 6: *command prompt* from the boot menu.

type and enter:

*c:\windows\options\cabs\setup.exe*

then you should be able to just follow the prompts.

Remember if you get any error messages copy them exactly, it may help in finding a fix or a workaround.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK, tapping the F8 doesnt seem to get me there, or the F5, so i'll 'Restart in MS DOS mode'
Which I think should be the same ..... yes ?
doing it now,
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
thats beautiful, went thru the setup no prob,
until 'restarting'
its restarted and Norton Antivirus has popped up,
I dont know what to do,
it asks:
Repair
Inoculate
Continue
Stop

I have to choose ..... maybe continue ???

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

That's interesting, your guess is as good as mine, but I think I'd hit "continue" and see what happens. I suppose you can always do it again if you get into problems.

If it "finds" anything, I'd opt for repair tho..

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-07-2001 at 01:48 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK 
will do

doing it now

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

well Norton seems to have kicked off on a frantic journey of exploration, its buzzing around in there like a bluebottle trying to get out.
Now the m/c is telling me for the second time,
that its running win for the first time.
seems to be ok.
its telling me that module C:\NOVELL\CLIENT32\LSLC32.NLM did not remain resident.
press any key to continue.

this i think is ok, it did this before, i think its trying to share with its mates, it was part of a group which i think were linked at intervals ..... but i could be wrong .... i'll put these messages cos you might know what they mean. I'm only guessing.

NIOS-201-105: An attempt to load IPX.NLM failed because the specified file could not be found.


cont.....

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

cont .....

Module C:\NOVELL\CLIENT32\IPX.NLM did NOT remain resident.
press any key to continue.

NIOS-201-105: Anattempt to load SPX_SKTS.NLM failed because the specified file could not be found.

Module C:\NOVELL\CLIENT32\SPX_SKTS.NLM did NOT remain resident.
press any key to continue.

NIOS-201-105: An attempt to load VMLID.NLM failed because the specified file could not be found.

Module C:\NOVELL\CLIENT32\VMLID.NLM did NOT remain resident.
press any key to continue.

NIOS-201-105: An attempt to load CLIENT32.NLM failed because the specified file could not be found.

Module C:\NOVELL\CLIENT32\CLIENT32.NLM did NOT remain resident.
press any key to continue.

at this point theres a lengthy pause and a lot of clicking.
with an egg-timer on the display.

now a message:

system error
windows cannot read from drive C:.
If this is a network drive make sure the network is working.
If it is a local drive, check the disk.

CANCEL...........RETRY

shall i retry? ???

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I have @ twenty mins before my server cuts me off.

for ten hours.

thats how it goes here.

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Hmmm, system error not good. retry, but if you cannot get it to go you may have to abort or ctrl-alt-del and try to boot to a command prompt again or start in safe mode. Keep trying with the f8 key, maybe it will work this time.

If you can get to Windows in safe mode, go to the control panel's Network applet and remove all Novell networking stuff. Then run sysedit from start>run and remove any references to Networking from autoexec.bat and config.sys.

Disable Norton if you can. If you can only get to a command prompt run

scandisk /all /surface

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-07-2001 at 02:38 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

retry,
it clicks it blinks but no change.

cancel,
it clicks it blinks but no change.

cont alt del ,
nothing , no change.

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It sounds like drive failure which is bad news. You may have to manually power off and back up. If you do, try to get the boot menu and choose safe mode or command prompt. You want to run scandisk from somewhere.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

two successive presses on ESC brought up the windows setup.

setting something.. its changed
back to system error


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi, Im allowed back on now after 18:00 hrs,
well i carried on trying this and that. It came back in safe mode, i tried to uninstall Norton, and it clicked a bit then shut down. I dont know what i did to bring up safe mode. I couldnt get it back so i went to bed. Still worried about that 'not reading C drive' that dont sound good.
Anyway still trying to bring up safe mode, trying all sorts of buttons in all sorts of ways, and up comes another facility, if thats the right word.
'COMPAQ diagnostics' new one on me. OK up comes a menu,

Quick check diagnostics
Automatic diagnostics
Prompted diagnostics
Veiw device list
Exit diagnostics

Now can i diagnost if the C drive works ???
or just cos this has come up does that mean the C drive must be working? 
Or could this bit be a built in facility independent of the C drive?
how do i tell?

well i better try something, so its 'veiw device list' ok .... lets see what we got ....

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

John I'm not familiar with those compaq options, you could try the "prompted" and see what it offers.

I would also keep trying to get the boot menu (f8 is the standard win95 key, but you have to tap it repeatedly) and if you can, select command prompt then run scandisk -- have it prompt before fixing errors so you can note what they are.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi, nice to see youre there
not familiar???
you an me both
this stupid thing is doin my head,
im just entering wot it says is in it
it says its got one-and-a-half gigabytes of hard ???
i dont think i believe it
but it would be nice
ANYWAY cos this has come up does that mean my hard drive is ok?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
well its given me a list of devices detected in this system,

I'll abreviate it a bit,

Compaq Elite 4/75CX:

processor.......75Mhz
mem.........16mb
diskette drive A 1.44mb
Drive Controller 1,
Hard Drive 1 - Type 65 (1.4 Gigabyte)

other various also .... tells me its got a keyboard, a video cont, a revision, a family, a pointing device interface and so on

How can it have 1.4Gb, ive seen it, its from 1993, its no bigger than a packet of ****, do i believe it??
dunno

i'll see if i can get back to menu,

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

No, it sounds like the File Allocation Table on the drive might be screwed up. Running scandisk might correct it.

This is one of those threads where I wish I "hadn't thought of that"  -- but atleast it's not a critical piece of hardware for you. Again, if you can manage to boot in safe mode or get to a command prompt, a thorough scandisk should be your first order of business.

I will be out for a while today, any suggestions from others should be more than welcome


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

got back to menu ok
i can choose 'prompted diagnostics'
do you want me to do that?
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's always good to know what's there...

john... just for the sake of others who might want to track this thread and offer suggestions, it's best not to treat it as "icq" as it can get way too long for anyone to follow.  I'll be back a little later to see how you're doing.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok
wots icq ?

im gonna go for 'Quick Check Diagnostic'
hope it tells me something i can understand
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

its checked

CPU
Sysem Memory
Keyboard
Character Set
Hard Drive
Serial Interface

it tells me errors have occurred, check the list

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

well the hard drive flagged up.
2 errors.
well thats probably why its been playing up.

maybe i could partition them out?
depends wot they are i suppose,
cheers,
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

John, if you haven't had any progress in booting to a command prompt or in safe mode, you should try creating a win95 boot disk and try booting with that. You can download and create one from http://www.bootdisk.com

I'm not sure what version you should choose, but it might not make any difference for what you need.

When you make it, write protect it, then startup with it. Choose start "without cd-rom support" when prompted. When you get to the a:\> prompt, enter:

scandisk c:

allow it to do a surface scan when prompted. Note any errors or fixes it reports. Then remove it and reboot by trying ctrl-alt-del.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
thanks for comin' back. i thought youd gave this up as a bad job. Im just coming up from a spell of despondency. This stupid m/c wont do anything normal, the hard drive fails on the read-write test, it was working with little probs now it wont fire up at all. i already done the F8 biz and the F5 biz, cant get back into safe mode cos i dont know how i did it earlier. I have a 95 floppy boot but this mental thing dont do any thing normal, thats why ive bin doin one thing at a time, and reporting back carefully wot it sez.
One bright thing has sustained me, the diagnostic bit had something on it about partitions, and it said i couldnt do partitioning whilst i was working within this diagnostic tool, because this tool is on its own partition.
Well i had a little think about that, i had wondered where the tool was, i thought it might have been built-in on the base board, but no its part of this hard drive.
presumably set aside like that so as it wont be affected by anything done elsewhere on the m/c. So i reckoned this drive must be bigger than it looks, so i took the top off and it is 1.4 gig just like it claimed. Well if that tool can have its own bit and work ok then i think maybe the dodgy bits can be partitioned out??
If you would like me to try to use the 95 floppy i will do it now, with your help maybe it will be ok. 

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

John, partitioning the drive will erase all data on it. If you had a 95 cd that would be fine, you could start from scratch. Give the boot disk a shot and see what scandisk c: has to say. If the booter loads we can also try the command fdisk /mbr to try to rebuild a damaged master boot record, in case that is part of the problem.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ive started it again, after all the messages and restarts, I 'played the piano' on all the keys during start up.
Guess what ..... safe mode has come up,
with an instruction.
to choose a hardware configuration,
from:

Dock 1
Undocked

i suppose id better choose undocked .... ???

i'll wait and see what you say.

john

ps ive just seen your last post, I do have a WIN95 CD, but how will that help? unless you mean i could copy little bits to put in ... i wouldnt know how to do that but i'll try anything.
ANYWAY its in safe mode what now ???
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I don't have a clue as to what that is referring to, but I'd choose undocked too.

run a thorough scandisk; configure it to prompt before fixing errors. I'd like you to run it twice; just note the errors the first time but don't have it repair. Let's see what and how many there are.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-07-2001 at 07:51 PM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok i'll do that now
i was beggining to think it was just mee!!
undocked
click
wait
now i have a window with a picture of Norton Antivirus for windows version 2.
by Symantic.
its telling me i have chosen to uninstall nortion antivirus
I can choose next or cancel

iswear ive never met such a loony m/c as this
i wont touch a button till you say what

i only chose undocked .... honest

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Cancel it. We want to stick to the basics here.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Version 2 probably only protects against measles,
I dont want to do anything that involves a restart or a shut down unless theres no other way.
I suspect uninstalling norton would involve a restart. 

just got your post.
i agree.
doin that now.
cancel.
click
little window up:
The installation is not completed. Areyou sure you would like to exit?
YES NO

it says installation 
it doesnt say uninstallation.

im gonna exit... ok

now its shut down.
now its restarted

splash screen
splash screen gone
updating
more modules
dit
dit
dit
dit
dit

lots of clicking ....

blue keyboard screen

white window.... cant read c drive

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you can manage to get safe mode back, run scandisk from there. If not, try the boot disk and at the a:\> prompt enter scandisk c:


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi sorry for the delay 
got cut off
had trouble getting back
service here is poor

i will try to get to safe mode again, i think it will be the same as before.
is there another way??
even if i lose contents if it works i'll be happy

this threads a bit long, getting silly, maybe start another? i feel like im taking up too much room !!

what were you saying about CD rom?

john 

trying to get to safe mode now


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi safemode option came up,
ive chosen safe mode
wait
white window ... cant read etc ...

after 3 cancels,
small window 'cannot detect devices'

i think i'll X in the corner this time ok??
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

cant X in the corner,
have to ok it

anther window,

running in safe mode

only one choice ... have to ok it

well goodness gracious me we have safe mode,
well it looks like it,
but the wallpapers wrong
do i care

wot now,

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i cant keep my hands off it. I've got to try something now safe modes up.

im gonna double click on my computer and see what happens .... ooooh it looks normal, 5 objects, large icons, floppy , c , contr pan , printers , dial up networking,

ooooh what if i put it back... yes went back ok 
this is definately safe mode.

what am i sposed to do now?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

engaged scandisk from start
fix errors is ticked,
its doin things

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Ok, I would have preferred to know what the errors were before fixing them, but will keep fingers crossed.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Its still running .... i hope it knows what its doing.
i have complete confidence,
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Sorry i couldnt wait
i came over all possessed,
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i got a message,

scandisk has restarted 10 times because windows or another program has been writing to this drive. Quitting some running programs may allow scandisk to finish sooner. Do you want to continue recieving this warning?

god knows.
can it prevent scandisk from finishing?
wot else could be running?
norton?

john

shall i just carry on?


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Well that is really odd considering you are running in safe mode. I wonder if there's an undetected virus in the system. Anyway I would continue to let it run as long as the progress bar is advancing. Even if it takes a couple of hours it would be worthwhile. The other alternative is to use a boot disk and run it from DOS.

The next time the message comes up you could try doing a ctrl-alt-del and seing what is running besides scandisk, explorer and systray, then end-task on anything else.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-07-2001 at 10:33 PM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
pretty much wot i thought too,
its moving so let it run.

its done,

508 600 320 bytes total disk space
294 912 bytes in bad sectors
1 368 064 in 164 folders
22 511 616 in 60 hidden files
291 389 440 in 3826 user files
193 028 096 available
8 192 in each unit
62 085 total units
23 563 available units

idont know wot most of that means 
but i hope its good
gonna come out of scandisk now .... ok?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

No thats not pretty much wot i thought,
cos you edited,
if i alter or try to stop other progs
that would most likely mean a restart,
and it dont like that

well it didnt, it might be all better now
i hope,
gonna come out of scandisk now
fingers crossed

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK out of scandisk and back on safe mode screen,
wot to check next?

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Whoops, I didn't see your post.

Well that's a real mess, and just what I was afraid of. I think you are probably going to need to try to run setup again.

One thing I would do first is go to the start menu>programs>startup and delete any shortcuts in that folder to keep unnecessary things from starting up.

Then try another restart and see what happens.

It really doesn't look good. The disk looks like it was failing badly.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-07-2001 at 11:02 PM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

report is there, post before last, it was thorough, with the fix errors box ticked.

sitting here looking at safe mode screen ,
trying not to touch it til you say wot,

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

fed up looking at safe mode screen
shall i go to ms dos and c win options cabs ,
or shall i see if it will do a 'normal' start?
shall i come out of safe mode 

dunno,

i'll see if it will start 'normal' ok....

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ive just found your message 
three posts back
when you edit
i dont get a 'new post' alert
cos its not a new post

anyway is it good enough to work?
can i come out of safe mode now?

is there more i should do first?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
there were two progs in startup norton and office,
deleted both shortcuts

try restart now .... yes ???

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi ,
Im gonna go for a restart
unless you say different,

have you got your sound on for new messages?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

its given me a message,

windows encountered an error.
you need to re-start your computer.

o now its gone click and all gone black.
I'll re restart again

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'd go for the restart; I'm not optimistic, but we might get lucky.

I'm just checking back periodically, between doing other things...


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

its restarted ok now,
but in safe mode
after all the stick it gave me getting safe mode
now it starts up in safe mode.
im just goin thru control panel to see wot i can see
what am i sposed to be looking for??
WIN said use cont pan to put it rite,

i don kno wots rong

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
Device Manager shows two red crosses by PCMCIA
opon inspection its cos their not available in safe mode.

I cant see any thing wrong here
wot am i lookin for???

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

That's better than I expected, actually.

Let's try this and see what happens. On your root directory (you can open Explorer or My Computer to access it), look for

autoexec.bat

config.sys

right click and rename them to

autoexec.xxx

config.xxx

Then try rebooting again.

P.S: also try holding the shift key down when rebooting, I think this may prevent startup programs from trying to load.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-08-2001 at 12:42 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

you sure about this?

i could go to 'find' 

i dont know where root is, do you mean c drive?

what will happen if i do this?
what are you trying to do?
john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Windows does not usually need autoexec.bat or config.sys for basic functionality, they are used mostly by 3rd party programs. Renaming them prevents them from being loaded and eliminates any conflicts coming from them.

You might want to have a look through this troublehooter, you will see what I'm getting at.

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q156/1/26.ASP

Yes it's the C:\ directory.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

the keyboard on this loony compaq doesnt do the usual things during start up.
i think that during startup its locked out except for esc and for some reason tab.

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

No im not gonna check if you say so thats good enough
there were two of each in 'find'
changed all four to .xxx
ok ???

gonna try restart again ok

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i have a windows protection error .
you need to re start your computer.

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

protection error
restart

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

now its telling me windows wasnt fully loaded last time
and i get a choice of seven procedures,
one of which is safe mode,
one is step by step

perhaps i should complete loading thru the options/cabs?

or maybe not ??

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Go for step by step; you probably will get a protection error someplace, so take note of where you are when it happens; this can be useful information.

Here is a paste from the troubleshooter:

Load the following items when prompted: 


Dblspace driver (if the hard disk is compressed).


Do not process the Config.sys file.


Himem.sys.


Ifshlp.sys.


Dblbuff.sys (only if prompted).


Do not process the Autoexec.bat file.


Load the Windows 95 graphical user interface (GUI), choosing to load all Windows drivers.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok i'll try
my time runs out in 1hr 10 min
this m/c is mad
and it could come up with any loony thing

if it comes up wth something mental can i get back out from the step by step?

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

John, since I don't know if your going to be online for much longer, here's what I suggest you do in the mean time (when you go offline). I'm thinking of having you try to install windows into a new folder. Hopefully you have enough free drive space to try it, I wasn't too sure looking at that scandisk report, but win95 only requires about 75 mb.

In order to do this we will need to access a command prompt, probably by using your boot disk. So I'd like you to test your boot disk by trying to boot with it and selecting "start without cd-rom support"

If you get to the a:\> prompt, enter:

dir c:

and see if you get a page full of directory information.

Then just remove the boot disk

====
To answer your last q, no you will probably just end up back in safe mode or with some other error such as you've been getting

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-08-2001 at 01:44 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok i'll do that then
i've already mucked up that last attempt
how do you answer YES orNO to a bunch of meaningless letters?
i just said yes to every thing
it didnt like that 
it shut down

i'll get to the C: prompt
i think thats what you said ?

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

you didnt say C drive you said from A:\>
put dir c:
which i did and more than a page of stuff came up including the two with their names changed.

what would you like me to do now?

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you want to wait until tommorow to do this, that's cool, but here's the plan. Remove the boot disk.

Type and enter c:

so that you are at the c:\> prompt

At the prompt enter (each line)

*ren windows windold*
*c:\windold\options\cabs\setup.exe*

Setup should begin again, if you are prompted to name a folder for the installation, name it windows

Keep fingers crossed, this is probably the last best hope I can think of for recovery.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-08-2001 at 02:14 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
if you have to go now we could do it later,
otherwise i'll try now ok

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i put that first line excatly,
and its gone straight back to the 
C:\>
is that right??
john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

well im assuming it is right 
but how do i write the second line?
the first characters are already there
C:\>
but that fourth character wont backspace
and its not in the line you wrote,
wot do i do about that?

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you entered ren windows windold

and did not get an error, it should have renamed.

Now try this (I think I gave you a bad command line):

cd windold\options\cabs

you should now be in the cabs directory, if so, enter

setup.exe

one problem you might encounter here is being asked for regististration or product key. If that happens we will have to work on it tommorow.
===============
If you want to try retrieving it now, at the c:\> prompt enter exactly:

regedit /e regkey.txt HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion

this should be one line

if no error message after entering, enter

edit regkey.txt

a blue screen dos editor should open, use the arrow key to scroll down and copy the product id and productkey exactly as you see them. Then press alt+f to eXit the editor. You can then run setup and enter the product key if prompted.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-08-2001 at 02:45 AM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

SETUP STARTED,
see howw iyt goes,
gotta go now 

many many thanks

john


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Rollin' Rog,
thanks again for your help, its been working except for some icons wrong,
but i did something daft.
you said i didnt have to call the new bit windold, i could call it windows.
When i looked later in explorer, windold didnt look right so i changed it to windows.
Now it dont work and i cant get in to change it back.
I should have known better.
I realise now you only meant when naming it in dos.

could you tell me what to do please,

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'm a little confused as to how you could do that. Fill me in on the details of how the setup went. Did you boot normally afterwards? Were you ever prompted for registration information?

Did it ever prompt you to enter a name for the new directory? If so, what exactly did you name it?

Windold was your old windows directory, if you renamed it to Windows, evidently it is trying to load instead of the new one. But I don't see how you can have two files in c:\ with the same name.

Try booting with the startup disk to get to a command prompt as before. From the a:\> prompt enter c:

then enter

dir /p

(the /p will pause for each screen)


Look for two "windows"; note the creation dates; the one that was created yesterday is the new one; the other one we want to rename back to windold

The problem is I don't see how they can be spelled the same; the new one must be a little different.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
looking at your previous post(775)
if it renamed it before perhaps that would rename it again,
so i'll try
C: ren windows windold
and see what it does ok

john

your latest post has just come in as i was about to post this .....

how did it go?
terrible, the keyboard went nuts, it took me a while to find the left-at-the-top slash, the keyboard had it as the little wavy line by the enter key. it restarted, i didnt take notes, it clicked a lot, it looked for plug-and-play devices, it shut down, i restarted it, keyboard keys now work the keys they should,
It didnt ask for registration details,

the new dirctory?
no name req .... i think it renamed the windows into windold,
there was no windows when i got to explorer, in its place was windold.
it did work with icons wrong but it did work.
there werent two of them.

i kno what you mean about being similar ive seen it before, win95, windows95, winnew, windows, and so on

anyway can i put it back, or maybe change it to windows?

thinking now i dont remember putting the cab files in there???

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Go ahead and rename it back to windold, from the c:\> prompt enter:

ren windows windold


We didn't get the result I hoped for, to install windows into a new directory. We simply installed back into windold. But evidently that was an improvement and you might want to leave well enough alone if you can boot and do most things normally. Having Windows named something else is not impossible, Windows does it itself sometimes when it thinks there are damaged files during setup.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK, working now, but still not right.
read you last post carefully,
so the windows instructions werent moved or duplicated just their folder renamed ..... is that what youre saying ?
i feel a bit awkward about this long thread.
the desktop is not normal,
the icon for 'my computer' is the win symbol on a sheet,
and theres an extra folder with no name, wont delete.
other wise it works but startup is unbeleivably hard work.

id like to duplicate the cabs into another folder cos that sounds like a good idea.

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The effect of what you did was similar to an "overinstall" rather than a fresh install. Old configuration and registry info remains, but system files have been restored.

Being a Win98 person, I'm not sure if 95 works exactly the same, but try right clicking on the Desktop, select properties>effects. (Or you can go through the Control Panel>Display>effects)

Is their a change icon option for the icon representing My Computer?

It may be possible to get rid of that "undeletable" folder, but I'd suggest a new thread for that.

Copying the cabs, is a good idea, you should just be able to create a new folder for them then go to the cabs folder, click edit>select all>copy, then paste to the new folder. It might take a while for the copy operation to complete on a slow pc.

[Edited by Rollin' Rog on 05-08-2001 at 06:17 PM]


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

sorry for the delays, im trying to eat, and the server has cut me off again.
I dont know why it was called 95,
cos some of these files go back to the 1980's
and im sure it was out before then
theres not usually a choice of icon for 'my computer' with 95 but i do have tweak and it hung on in this m/c
so i might find a way thru tweak 
copying thru explorer i can do, but then how do i run it from the ones i copy, surely it will still go where it went before??

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You just want to create a second copy of the cabs directory right? You wouldn't normally run anything from there except setup as we did before. Actually, I'm not really sure it's a useful enterprise as you may be consuming valuable disk space.


----------



## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

well i'll leave it then,
thanks again,

john


----------



## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You're welcome john, it's nice to have a second pc to practice your chops on one way or another


----------

