# Solved: No names in cache error message



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi all,

I have a home networking problem with a Laptop that's running Vista Home Premium, a Win XP desktop and a Win98SE desktop. The Laptop is connected wirelessly and the Win98SE and Win XP computers are connected to a Dynalink Wireless 4-port Modem/Router via ethernet cables.

All computers can gain access to the Internet ok and can all ping each other's IP addresses (including the Win98SE). The Laptop can ping the Win XP by name and vice versa, but they cannot ping the Win98SE by name. *The Win98SE can ping itself by name though*. Have done a nbtstat -n on the Win98SE and keep getting the error message "No names in cache". Have enabled NetBIOS over TCP/IP on all machines.

I cannot share folders or drives on the Win98SE computer as there is no *"Sharing"* option either in Windows Explorer - Edit or when i right-click on Network Neighborhood.

I have posted this networking problem under "Networking" and members have provided great support with giving me heaps of things to try but nothing seems to be working. Have posted this time under Operating Systems hoping that someone with Win98SE might have experienced the same problem, or know what the problem is, or had a similar problem.

Tried 100 different things and don't know what to try next. Desperate times call for desperate measures but I don't want to reformat the Win98SE, I just want to get on the network with it.

Hoping someone can help me.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

"bump"


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Don't know what was tried in "Networking" so will start with basics. You may have already done this.

On the Vista: click Start, Network, does the 98SE show with its name?
Not sure how to access on the XP, but check to see if 98SE is listed with name.



In Networks, Configuration tab:
Installed componenets list should have at least these four items.
Client for Microsoft Networks
File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks 
Your Network Adaptor
TCP/IP for Your Network Adaptor

If Clients or File and Printer Sharing or not listed. 
Click the Add button. In popup, for File and Printer sharing, select Services and click add button. In popup select File and Printer for MS and click ok. Same procedure for Client for MS under Clients.

Under Identification tab:
Computer name: a unique name. This is the id for your network.
Workgroup: same was other computers
Computer description: what ever, not that important


Accesss Control tab: I use share level access. Not sure if either needs to be selected


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Read the other thread and did some googling. The nbtstat -n "no names" occurs because there are no listings in your Net Bios cache on the 98SE. Don't know that much about Net Bios. Will try to find more .

Since you asked in the other thread, these are the Internet Options and Network settings I have for my 98SE. Although I use a USB Wireless Adaptor for it now, it was directly connected to my modem/router until I bought a new computer. The basic settings should be the same if you connect Ethernet, Wireless or USB.

Internet Options in Control Panel:
Connectionn Tab:
Dialup and Virtial Network have nothing entered. Turned off.

ConnectionsSettings if you need to chose a proxy server.
Never dial a connection checked.

Under Lan Settings: Automatically detect settings checked.



Network in Control Panel: Three Tabs 

Access Control: Share-Level checked

Identification Tab: Computer Name. Work Group, Computer ID

Configuration tab: Several enties. For properties of each entry select and click on Properties Button
Client for Microsoft Networks
Properties: quick logon checked.

File and Preinter Sharing For MS Networks (Only if you want to share)
Proerties: Advanced - Browse Master - Auto
LM Announce - NO

Your Network Adaptor
Properties: Drivers-Enhanced Mode NDIS drivers
Bindings-TCP/IP for Your Network Adaptor

TCP/IP for Your Network Adaptor
Properties: Seven Tabs.

DNS Tab - Disable DNS Checked
TCP/IP Address Tab - Obtain IP adress Automatically checked
- Detect connection to network media checked
Gateway Tab - Your modem's IP adress should show in the white box. If not you can 
enter it.
Net Bios Tab - Netbios is seleted
Bindings Tab - Client for MS Networks and File and Printer Sharing
Wins Tab - Use DHCP For WINS Resolution Checked
Advanced Tab - Allow Binding to ATM - NO


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks for your help with this, it's really frustrating when everything i've tried doesn't work. Have tried so many different things that i'm not sure what to try next.

All my settings were virtually the same as yours except the very last line of your message, under the Advanced Tab.

Your Network Adaptor
Properties: Drivers-Enhanced Mode NDIS drivers
Bindings-TCP/IP for Your Network Adaptor

TCP/IP for Your Network Adaptor
Properties: Seven Tabs.

DNS Tab - Disable DNS Checked
TCP/IP Address Tab - Obtain IP adress Automatically checked
- Detect connection to network media checked
Gateway Tab - Your modem's IP adress should show in the white box. If not you can 
enter it.
Net Bios Tab - Netbios is seleted
Bindings Tab - Client for MS Networks and File and Printer Sharing
Wins Tab - Use DHCP For WINS Resolution Checked
*Advanced Tab - Allow Binding to ATM - NO*

I've got a box at the bottom of this Tab which is checked *"Set the protocol to be the default protocol".*

Should i uncheck this?

Can still ping all comptuers by IP address (including Win98 computer) but can only ping WinXP and Laptop by name. When i try to ping Win98se by name from Laptop and XP, i get the error messsage "Ping request could not find host acerold. Please check the name and try again". Although when i ping the Win98 by its name from Win98, the ping is successful.

When i do nbtstat -n on the Win98se i'm still getting error message "No names in cache". How can i ping the Win98 by name from the Win98 if there's no names in cache??


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Went back and checked the Advanced Tab for TCP/IP. The "Set the protocol to be the default protocol" is there, but I do not have it checked. Not sure what it does.

From what I have been able to find, you can't. And haven't found out how the information gets to the Netbios cache yet.


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Posted your problem at MS Communities 98 forum with a link to your "network" thread here to see if anyone there might have ideas.

Got this reply from MEB. You may have already tried some of them.

Okay, looked at some of it...

** Look at 20-Oct 2008 post, did anyone check for previous ICS installation?
ICS has its own DHCP, look at the registry for its entry.
It WILL conflict with any router assigned IP [uses same address as router
generally].

Did you look a master browser issues?

** How about HOSTS or LMHOST files involved anywhere?

IF you actually have made sure to check ALL potential blocks like firewalls
and such, IF and only IF, then:

Have him completely remove ALL networking components in Control Panel >
Network and re-install if this hasn't already been tried.
1. That includes FIRST disabling File and Printer Sharing, shut down, then
removal of ALL aspects.
2. Shutdown several times afterwards then -
3. Re-install all network adapters, make sure that all proper entries are
found in NETWORK, re-enable File and Printer Sharing.
4. Restart [after a complete power-off] all aspects of the network, starting
with the router, then its controller, then the lesser nodes.
5. Check IP configs for ALL adapters. Make sure if dynamic assigned, that it
is configured with the proper settings; if hard set make sure that it is in
the proper range AND workgroup AND sub-net.. though it appears from the
posts his router IS assigning addresses or at least attempting to.

Typically for newsgroups, I see a number of potential issues do to
questions not answered or followed up on. It happens, so don't feel bad.

Run through that networking page I linked for ICS and other issues [try
search/find on this page in your browser]. Good luck.

http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/gen/security/NETWORKING.htm
-- 
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org
a Peoples' counsel
_ _
~~

Was this post helpful


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> Posted your problem at MS Communities 98 forum with a link to your "network" thread here to see if anyone there might have ideas.
> 
> Got this reply from MEB. You may have already tried some of them.
> 
> ...


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

I hate touching the registry myself, and only do it as a last resort.

ICS is a method to connect two computers together using ethernet so they can share. 

For starters just chack two entries, not change anything in your registry.
Click start, run. Type regedit in the box and click ok.

A divided screen will come up. Left side is the registry menu tree, right will show values for each entry.
Will look a ICS first
Click point next to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE to open folder.
Scrool dowm to System folder and open it.
Open CurrentControl Set folder
Open Services
Open ICSharing
Open Settings
Open General
Enable DHCP = should show in the right window avlue should not be 1

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\ICSharing\Settings\General 
EnableDHCP = 0 (change this to 1 if you want to switch DHCP on)

Close General, Settings, ICSharing


Now to check your Netbios node.

Scrolldown to VxD folder and open.
Open MSTCP
Value = none, 1 or 8 prefer none or 1, but 8 will work.

NodeType
Key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\MSTCP

Value type: DWORD
Valid range: 1, 2, 4, or 8
Default: 1 (b-node) if no value is specified or no WINS servers are configured on the network; 8 (h-node) if WINS servers are specified and NodeType is not otherwise defined in the Registry

Close all foldrs and Regedit. 
Let me know what the values are.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Wow, been all over the place on this. Not sure what you have installed on the Win98 system right now, so time to gather the info again. Probably need to trim things down a bit. Worst case is we'll have to re-install the entire network stack. A bit involved, but not that bad really.

The *No names in cache* message is not the problem, it's a symptom of the network not working. Names get put into the cache when you connect by name. Since you can't connect by name, it can't put names in the cache.

The reason the Win98SE box can ping itself by name is because it already knows it's own name and IP address, so it doesn't have to resolve it to an IP address.

An alternative to ipconfig is winipcfg. Enter this in the Run box, then press the More info button. You can select each adapter to see it's information. No way to copy the info though, so using ipconfig /all >c:\out.txt is the best way to get the info if you need to paste it.

Also, what are you seeing in the Xp *ipconfig /all* that makes you think it's the Browse Master? Unless you manually configured the XP machine to be the Browse Master, the Vista system should actually be the Browse Master. 
The RPTI Ethernet adapter is using the generic Novell 2000 driver. This Novell driver is used by many of the old ISA adapters. Kind of confusing since the driver name doesn't match the manufacturer's name

Ok, first let's see what you have now.
Right click *Network Neighborhood* and click *Properties*.
On the *Configuration* tab:


List everything in the *The following network components are installed:* window
What is selected under *Primary Network Logon*?
Click the *File and Print Sharing...* button. Which boxes are checked?
Double click *Client for Microsoft Networks*.
*Log on to NT Domain* should be unchecked.
Select *Quick logon* under Network *logon options*.
Double click *TCP/IP -> RPTI ISA PnP Ethernet Adapter* and check the following settings:
*IP Address* - Set to *Obtain an IP address automatically*
*WINS Configuration* - Set to *Use DHCP for WINS resolution*
*Gateway* - *Installed gateways:* box should be empty
*DNS Configuration* - Disable DNS
*Bindings* - *Client for Microsoft Networks* and *File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks* should be checked.
- *Microsoft Family Logon* (if present) should not be checked.
*Advanced* - *Allow Binding to ATM* - NO
If the *Set this protocol to be the default protocol* box is not grayed out, check it
* NetBIOS* - If the *I want to enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP* box is not grayed out, check it
Double click *File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks*
*Browse Master* set to *Automatic*
*LM Announce* set to *No*
On the *Identification* tab make sure the Workgroup name is the same as you specified for the Vista and XP systems
On the *Access Control* tab check the *Share-level access control* radio button.

When you boot the system, which of the three attached password boxes do you get? Which ever one you get, do you actually enter a password (or leave it blank) and click *OK*, or do you hit the *ESC* button?

Once we have this info we can see where to go from here.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Wow, been all over the place on this. Not sure what you have installed on the Win98 system right now, so time to gather the info again. Probably need to trim things down a bit. Worst case is we'll have to re-install the entire network stack. A bit involved, but not that bad really.
> Once we have this info we can see where to go from here.
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry,

Firstly, thanks for your help with this.

Have attached the file one.txt for the Win98se. It shows exactly what my ipconfig /all does on the Win98se.

The *WinXP was the Browse master* on my last post as i had the Laptop disconnected from the Network.

Ok, now for the *Network Neighborhood - Properties*.

*Primary Network Logon* is Client for Microsoft Networks.

Under *File & printer sharing for Microsoft Networks*: "I want to be able to give others access to my files" and "I want to be able to allow others to print to my printer(s)" are both checked.

Under the *Configuration* tab:

Client for Microsoft Networks.
Dial-Up Adapter.
RPTI ISA PnP Ethernet Adapter.
TCP/IP -> Dial-Up Adapter.
TCP/IP -> RPTI ISA PnP Ethernet Adapter.
File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks.

*Client for Microsoft Networks* - Quick logon is checked.

Under *TCP/IP -> RPTI ISA PnP Ethernet Adapter* under the *Gateways: Installed Gateways* i had the IP address of my modem/router but have since removed it. Removing it has made no difference though. All my other settings were the same as the ones you listed.

The *Workgroup name* is the same as the WinXP and Vista and the *Access control* is set to Share-level access control.

As for the *password boxes* I don't have any when i boot the system. Under Control Panel - Passwords - User Profiles - I checked the box that says "All users of this computer use the same preferences and desktop settings". The reason i enabled this was because i wasn't sure what to do when the box appeared. I used to get the password box that is similar to your second thumbnail, only it says "Welcome to Windows" "Type a user name and password to log on to Windows".

Also, i haven't got Internet Connection Sharing and yet there's a miniature Network Neighborhood icon in the System tray that says "Internet Gateway: Disconnected". Do u know what this is and why it's there?


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> I hate touching the registry myself, and only do it as a last resort.
> Let me know what the values are.


Ok, went into the Registry and went to:
*HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services* and I don't have ICSharing. Does that mean I have to install ICS from the Win98se CD? I haven't got ICS set up on the WinXP or Vista. The Win98se is connected directly to the modem/router by ethernet cable and the WinXP is also connected directly to the modem/router by ethernet cable. The Laptop is connected wirelessly. On my *Networking post* someone told me that I don't have to have ICS?? I don't know what I should have or shouldn't have anymore??

Under the Registry key: *HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\MSTCP*
I have the following:

{Default} {value not set}
EnableDNS "0"
EnableRouting "0"
Lanabase "0"
LMHostFile "C:\WINDOWS\lmhosts"
LocalCopyMade "1"

Hope you can shed some light on this and if i have to make alterations to this key can you tell me what to alter plz?


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

No, you do not want ICS. Just checking to make sure that if it was installed, it was turned off ( value = 0).

VxD\MSTCP settings that you have are the same as mine. Again, just making sure DNS, Routing and Lanabase are turned off. The path to LMHost file is correct and the computer is set to save a copy (1).

Neither of us have a Hosts or LMHosts.txt file as we are using Netbios broadcast for resolution and DHCP for IP's instead of static IP's. The HOSTS.sam and LMHosts.sam are just examples to show how to set these files up if needed. They are just lists of the names and IP's for the computers on your network. From what I understand with LMHosts resolution, computer checks name in list to find the IP of the other computer. Maybe Jerry can shed more light on the subject.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> No, you do not want ICS. Just checking to make sure that if it was installed, it was turned off ( value = 0).
> 
> VxD\MSTCP settings that you have are the same as mine. Again, just making sure DNS, Routing and Lanabase are turned off. The path to LMHost file is correct and the computer is set to save a copy (1).
> 
> Maybe Jerry can shed more light on the subject.


Thanks for trying to help with this. At least i can find out if some of my settings are ok when someone has the same thing.

Just a quick question. Have u got a small network neighborhood icon in your system tray that says "Internet Gateway:Connected or Disconnected"?? If so, what does it mean??


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

The 98SE is connected wireless now so I have the regular two computers Network icon that when moused just has Network, then another icon for my wireless adaptor which shows Connected to Network Name or Disconnected when moused.

When the 98SE was connected directly to the modem, had only the two computer Network icon. When moused would show Connected (if working) or Disconnected. 
Should be severly chastized for forgetting about this, can only plead senior moments. see bolds.
Left click on icon would bring up a Status window with tabs for General, Details, and Connections. Selection box at bottom to chose the adaptor to get information about.. *If the adaptor you are connecting with is not selected icon will probably read as disconneted when moused.*
General tab: Status, active,not active; Duration; Connection Speed; Activity
Details: *IPConfig details*.
Connections: Local IP and port; IP's and ports for other computers
Right click on icon got box with choice of Network Status, Network Settings, or Switch to Dialup.

Left and right click still work the same.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> The 98SE is connected wireless now so I have the regular two computers Network icon that when moused just has Network, then another icon for my wireless adaptor which shows Connected to Network Name or Disconnected when moused.


Have bought up the *Internet Gateway Status window* but only have a General tab That says: Status, Duration, Speed and Activity. When i click on the *Properties* button i have another *General tab* which says Connection to the Internet using: Internet Gateway. Under the Services tab it is empty. Whereabouts am i supposed to have information on my network adaptor??


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Wow, been all over the place on this. Not sure what you have installed on the Win98 system right now, so time to gather the info again. Probably need to trim things down a bit. Worst case is we'll have to re-install the entire network stack. A bit involved, but not that bad really.
> Once we have this info we can see where to go from here.
> 
> Jerry


After seeing results in my post #11 do we need to do a "Re-install of entire network stack", or is there something in my info that says what is wrong?? If we need to do this "stack" thing can u plz list the steps to do this because when it comes to networking i'm a real newbe. I just hope this course of action can help cause i'm getting nowhere with this problem.


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Elyon. I completely missed that you have no logon box in your post #11. Not sure how that would effect your network connection.
I do have the Network Logon box at startup. Just the computer name with no password. 

I have never done a reinstall of the TCP Stack and would need to search to find out how it is done.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> I used to get the password box that is similar to your second thumbnail, only it says "Welcome to Windows" "Type a user name and password to log on to Windows".


My 2nd thumbnail was of the box that appears the very first time; I grabbed the wrong picture. After the first time, the Welcome To Windows box you remember is the one that appears.



ELYON said:


> Also, i haven't got Internet Connection Sharing and yet there's a miniature Network Neighborhood icon in the System tray that says "Internet Gateway: Disconnected". Do u know what this is and why it's there?


This was probably added when you ran the Network Setup Disk that you created on the XP system. As you can connect to the internet, I doubt if it's interfering with anything. I'm not sure how to remove it, unless it is listed in Add/Remove Programs. It may be on the Windows Setup tab under either Communications or Internet Tools. If you right click the icon and click properties, there is an option to not display the Icon. You can also access this from *Start | Programs | Accessories | Comuunications*

Let's leave it alone for right now.


ELYON said:


> As for the *password boxes* I don't have any when i boot the system. Under Control Panel - Passwords - User Profiles - I checked the box that says "All users of this computer use the same preferences and desktop settings". The reason i enabled this was because i wasn't sure what to do when the box appeared.


Even with that setting checked you should still get a password prompt.
If you don't get a password prompt (should be like the first thumbnail above when you don't have multiple users) Windows won't start the networking components it needs to be able to use the network. TweakUI can be used to fill in the box automatically, but the prompt would still appear for a few seconds until TweakUI enters the info.
There is a registry setting that can automatically logon. If that is set the box won't appear, and the network won't be accessible via Network Neighborhood. You should still be able to share folders though, so File and Printer sharing may be corrupted. The password box not appearing could also mean that the Client for Microsoft Networks is corrupted.

One quick check; click on the Start button. Right above *Shut Down...* it should say either *Log Off...* or *Log Off Name...*;
If neither is present, then the Client for Microsoft Networks component is corrupted. If it shows *Log Off Name...*, this would also be a sign that the Client for Microsoft Networks is corrupted 
If the Autologon registry setting is present, it should show *Log Off...

*If either *Log Off* is there, click it and say yes to log off. You should then get a password prompt, hopefully the Enter Network Password box. If there is a name present, leave the password blank and click OK. If it says the password is wrong, type a different name, leave the password blank, and click OK. Typing a new name should bring up the Enter Windows password box like the 2nd thumbnail above. leave the password blank again and click OK. Then when it boots, double click Network Neighborhood, then double click Entire Network. It should show the Workgroup name. If it still gives an error that the network is not accessible, well need to re-install some of the network.
Try that and let me know what happens, or let me know if Log off is completely missing.

If we need to re-install anything, you'll need to have the CD, or the correct cab files on the hard drive. Right click My Computer, click properties and verify that it says Windows 98 Second Edition.
If the cab files are on the PC, they are usually at C:\Windows\Options\Cabs; you can also use find and search for files and folders named Win*.cab. Be sure to check the dates on the cab files; Win98 SE will be dated 4/23/99, Win98 1st edition cabs are dated 5/11/98.
Can't hurt to make sure you have a working Windows 98 Startup floppy as well. If you need to create one, you can do that from *Add/Remove Programs | Startup Disk* tab.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> Elyon. I completely missed that you have no logon box in your post #11. Not sure how that would effect your network connection.
> I do have the Network Logon box at startup. Just the computer name with no password.
> 
> I have never done a reinstall of the TCP Stack and would need to search to find out how it is done.


Jerry said that this might be a last resort after he found out what i had in Network Neighborhood Properties.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> My 2nd thumbnail was of the box that appears the very first time; I grabbed the wrong picture. After the first time, the Welcome To Windows box you remember is the one that appears.
> 
> If we need to re-install anything, you'll need to have the CD, or the correct cab files on the hard drive. Right click My Computer, click properties and verify that it says Windows 98 Second Edition.
> If the cab files are on the PC, they are usually at C:\Windows\Options\Cabs; you can also use find and search for files and folders named Win*.cab. Be sure to check the dates on the cab files; Win98 SE will be dated 4/23/99, Win98 1st edition cabs are dated 5/11/98.
> ...


If i uncheck the "All users of this computer use the same preferences and desktop settings i'm getting the *"Welcome to Windows"* password box *not the* *Network password* box.

Also i've got *2 users on the win98se with the same name*, i suppose i've duplicated them somehow when i've tried logging off and logging on and i don't know how to get rid of one of them. Can u tell me how to delete the wrong one?

I don't want to try logging off on the wrong user account in case i can't get the right user back again. I do have a *Log Off* feature in the Start Menu though.

I've got the Windows 98 Second Edition CD-ROM but will make a Windows 98 Startup floppy before we try anything. But first of all can u help me get rid of one of the duplicate users that have the same user name?


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

I was hoping Jery would popin. Been looking to see how to get the password prompt back.Try the things he mentioned in his last post to see if you can get a password prompt. Only thing I can think to add is if you need to use a new name try to use the same name that you have as computer name in Netwrk Identification.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

So in Control Panel | Users, you see two names that are the same? I'm guessing one may have a trailing space -- will have to try to duplicate that to see if it's possible -- nope, it ignores leading and trailing spaces.

The user profiles are stored at *C:\Windows\Profiles\username*. Do you see two folders here?


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

I don't know how to explain this, it's really confusing and i don't know how to explain it properly let alone fix it. Here goes:

Have gone to C:\Windows\Profiles\Users and can only see the one user name. I know this sounds confusing but if i get the "Welcome to Windows password screen", it comes up with the *user name*, then if i click on *"ok"* it launches into windows but i can't open any programs as it says i need administrative privileges, I think this is because i tried to log off with this username once.

I then restart the computer and this time when "Welcome to Windows" password screen comes up with the *same user* *name *i hit *"cancel" this time* then windows launches and i'm able to access all my programs again.

I don't want to delete this username as i'm scared that i won't be able to access any of my programs. Do you know why this is happening?? Is it something to do with hitting "ok" one time then hitting "Cancel" the next time?

What should i do in regards to logging off or not logging off?? This is a real mess, can u help plz? Should i just create a new user or will it make things worse?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

When you hit cancel, it logs into the All Users profile. If you hit OK and it logs in, then that user has a blank password. I've not seen Win98/Win98SE say you need administrative privileges to run a program before though. What is the exact wording of the error when you try to run a program?

My first thought is that if you log into this account by clicking OK, and nothing works, you won't lose anything by deleting the user. You may want to check under *C:\Windows\profiles\Username\My Documents* to see if there are any files you need to save before deleting it though; My Documents, cookies, History, and some Program settings are all you would lose, but if the programs aren't working under this user account, not much to lose anyways other than stuff in My Documents.

Looks like we have several different issues going on which may or may not be related. Creating a new user shouldn't hurt anything either. If you can log into a new user and access the programs, then it's a good sign that something on the other user is corrupted.

Let's see if we can get the networking working.
Copy the following and paste it into the *Start | Run* box.

```
regedit /e C:\RMNBack.reg "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Network\Real Mode Net"
```
This will create a file in the root of the C drive named RMNBack.reg. This will show if the Autologon key is being used.
Double click My Computer, then double click the C: drive. Find the RMNBack.reg file, right click it and left click Edit. This will open it in Notepad. Paste the contents into your next reply. If you can't access the forum from the Win98 system, copy it to another PC via floppy, or at least indicate if there is a line that says AutoLogon (shown in red below). 
(Press CTRL+A to highlight everything, then CTRL+C to copy. Switch to the reply window, then press CTRL+V to paste)

This is what my Win98SE System gives:

```
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Network\Real Mode Net]
"transport"="ndishlp.sys"
"netcard"="dc21x4.dos"
"LoadRMDrivers"=hex:00,00,00,00
"preferredredir"="VREDIR"
[COLOR=Red]"Autologon"=hex:00[/COLOR]
```
Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

Here's the contents of that file.

REGEDIT4
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Network\Real Mode Net]
"transport"=""
"netcard"=""
"LoadRMDrivers"=hex:00,00,00,00
"preferredredir"="VREDIR"

Mine doesn't look anything like yours. Is this what is causing the network problem?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

That could be. Not sure if the missing transport and netcard fields would cause this. The netcard value on mine is the dos real mode driver. It's not used in Windows, but the fact that yours doesn't have an entry could mean other settings are missing elsewhere.

I'll try deleting those on my system and see if it breaks.

Back in a few minutes...

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> When you hit cancel, it logs into the All Users profile. If you hit OK and it logs in, then that user has a blank password.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, do i delete the *user* in C:\Windows\User or do i remove it from Users in Control Panel?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Deleting those two values didn't prevent me from accessing the network, nor did it stop the Enter Network Password prompt, so it's more than just those two keys. It's possible that that is normal for that particular network card.

I suspect we'll need to re-install the Client for Microsoft Networks, and File and Printer sharing. If that doesn't fix the networking part, then removing and re-installing all the network components would be the next step.

Best to delete the user from the Control Panel | Users tool. Just deleting the folder won't remove the registry entries, so windows will think the user is still there.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Deleting those two values didn't prevent me from accessing the network, nor did it stop the Enter Network Password prompt, so it's more than just those two keys. It's possible that that is normal for that particular network card.
> 
> Best to delete the user from the Control Panel | Users tool. Just deleting the folder won't remove the registry entries, so windows will think the user is still there.


Have removed the user from Control Panel - Users but it is still showing in C:\Windows\Users after a system restart. Should i delete the user from C:\Windows or do i have to delete it somewhere in the registry?

Have done a *Find:Files named Win*.cab* and it says *"There are no items to show in this view"* so have made a Windows 98 SE Startup disk.

Also, what do u want me to try as far as re-installing goes?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Deleting it in *Control Panel | Users* should have removed the folder. I suspect the registry entry for that user was pointing to the wrong place, which is probably why nothing worked when you actually logged in to that username. You can go ahead and just delete the folder (assuming there are no files you need to keep of course).

To re-install *Client for Microsoft Networks* and *File and Printer sharing*:

Right click *Network Neighborhood*
On the *Configuration* tab, highlight *Client for Microsoft Networks* then click *Remove*
This should also remove *File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks*; if it doesn't, highlight it and then click *Remove*
Click *OK*; You get a warning that the network is not complete, click *Yes* to continue.
You'll be prompted to reboot -- Click *Yes*

When the PC reboots, you may get the *Welcome to Windows* password box with a user name already filled in, or you may get the *Enter Windows Password* box like the 2nd thumbnail from post #10. Either log in, or type a name and password if desired.
When you get to the desktop, the *Network Neighborhood* icon will be gone, so go into the *Control Panel* and double click *Network*
You'll get the Network is not complete dialog again, click Yes
Click the *Add...* button, then double click *Client*. Highlight *Microsoft* on the left and then double click *Client for Microsoft Networks* on the right. It may take a few seconds to return to the Network window.
Highlight *Client for Microsoft Networks* and click *Properties*. Tick the *Quick logon* radio button then click *OK*
Click the *File and Print Sharing...* button, then check the *I want to be able to give others access to my files.* box.
Check the *I want to be able to allow others to print to my printer(s).* box if you have a printer connected to this sytem that you want to share.
Click *OK*
Make sure Primary Network Logon: is set to *Client for Microsoft Networks*
Click OK
Windows will prompt to insert the Win98 Second Edition CD. Either insert the CD and click *OK*, or if the cab files are on the hard drive, just click *OK*, then select the path to the cab files in the *Copy files from:* drop down if it's there, or you can type in the path, then click *OK*.
Windows will copy some files, then prompt you to reboot. Say Yes

Hopefully, you'll get the *Enter Network Password* prompt box. After logging in, open My Computer, right click a folder, and the Sharing option should now be there as well.

Fingers crossed....

Jerry


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Didn't notice the edit. If the cabs aren't on the hard drive, you will need the Windows 98 Second Edition CD to re-install the Client and File and Print sharing. The startup disk is actually a "just in case" so we can access the system, for instance if windows refused to let you log in we can delete the password list files. Worst case is it would be needed to re-install Windows, either a repair install or a fresh install, but I don't think that will be needed. Do make sure you can boot with the disk and at least do a DIR on the C: drive.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Didn't notice the edit. If the cabs aren't on the hard drive, you will need the Windows 98 Second Edition CD to re-install the Client and File and Print sharing. The startup disk is actually a "just in case" so we can access the system, for instance if windows refused to let you log in we can delete the password list files. Worst case is it would be needed to re-install Windows, either a repair install or a fresh install, but I don't think that will be needed. Do make sure you can boot with the disk and at least do a DIR on the C: drive.
> 
> Jerry


I've done a DIR and all files seem to be on the floppy but I've never had to boot from a floppy before so can u tell me what i have to do after the system starts?

Also, since i've deleted the *user* i have nothing after *Log Off ... *so do i make a new user before un-installing Client for Microsoft networks? How is *Windows loading if i don't have a user*, i'm really new to this networking stuff and don't understand. The person who got my Vista and WinXP networked bailed on me as soon as he couldn't get the Win98se on the network so please be gentle with me with your reply lol. I'm really trying to get a handle on this and trying things that i only know a little bit about.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

You may have to enter the BIOS to set the Floppy as the first boot device. You can just put the floppy in and reboot the PC. If it's already set to boot from the floppy, you'll get the first screen below. For testing, use option 2, either type the number, or use the arrow keys to select it and press enter.
Then you'll get the second screen below. When the a prompt appears, type *dir c:\*. It should display a list of files. If that works, the disk is OK and can access the hard drive.

If it just boots back into Windows, you'll need to go into the BIOS and change the startup options. The system should display a message when it first starts up, something like Press DEL for setup, or Press F2 for setup. Could also be F10, F11. Press that key and it should go into the BIOS.
Hard to say what the BIOS looks like. I don't recall if you've given the make and model of the Win98 system, the owners manual may have screen shots of the BIOS with instructions on what each screen does. So if you have that info, or the make and model of the Motherboard if it's a home built system, I can try to track one down.
If we can't find a manual online, you'll just have to look around in the various screens to find something that references Boot or Startup order.
It may be on it's own tab that says Boot, or may be in the Advanced Options. There are usually instructions on the bottom or the right side on how to navigate.

When the system boots now, do you still get the Welcome to Windows box? or does it just go to the Desktop? If you get the box, you can just type a new name and password if desired. Windows will ask if you want to be able to personalize your settings. Saying yes will create a User just as if you used the Users tool in Control Panel. If you say no, it will use the All Users profile, which should be the same as if you click cancel on the Welcome to Windows screen.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> When the system boots now, do you still get the Welcome to Windows box? or does it just go to the Desktop? If you get the box, you can just type a new name and password if desired. Windows will ask if you want to be able to personalize your settings. Saying yes will create a User just as if you used the Users tool in Control Panel. If you say no, it will use the All Users profile, which should be the same as if you click cancel on the Welcome to Windows screen.
> 
> Jerry


Thanks so much Jerry, the Win98se machine is finally on the network and sharing thanks to your help. It's brilliant!!!! I couldn't have done this without your help and perserverence with this problem. I've been struggling with this for 3 months now, pulling my hair out and many a sleepless night searching the Internet for answers. I can't thank you enough!!!!!

Just one more query though. Remember, how i got rid of the *users* that were there before, well i've got this little problem now. When i removed Client for Microsoft Networks and re-installed it i typed a "*different"* user name than the one that was already in the box (the *Registered to: name* that appears in *System Properties *when u right-click *My Computer - Properties*), as this is the user name that was causing me so many problems before.

Now, if i hit *cancel *at the "Enter Network password" box I get my original Windows desktop with all my icons on it but i cannot "Browse the Network" but if i use the *new username* in the "Enter Network Password" box i get the Windows desktop with only a few of my icons that were there originally but i can access the network ok, does this make any sense??

Can u let me know why i have two different Desktops and how do i make them the same.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Glad that worked. Means we don't have to go digging into the registry for a complete R&R.

Depends on how you want to use the system. If you don't need multiple users, goto *Control Panel | Passwords User Profiles* tab, and check the box for *All users of this computer use the same preferences*. This should revert all users to using the All Users profile (which is what gets used when you cancel the logon.

You can then go in to *Control Panel | Users* and delete the users that are there -- remember to check the Windows\Profile folders for any documents you may have saved while logged into that account, and to make sure the folders get deleted.

I would recommend setting it this way to start, then adding users later if desired.

If you do want to use different users, so they can personalize the Desktop, in *Control Panel | Passwords User Profiles* check the settings under *User Profile settings* that you want. If both are unchecked, all users will have the same desktop icons, Network Neighborhood contents, Start Menu, and Programs. Checking the box will allow the user to customize those settings. When you create a user account you have a choice to copy the exisiting, or use new; not sure what all gets copied when you choose New, but easy enough to copy stuff that it didn't.

Then, go to *Control Panel | Users* and highlight the User, then click the *Change Settings* button. Check all the boxes and choose the *Create copies* radio button. This will copy most everything over from the All Users profile so all the program Icons should now exist. It won't copy all settings though, such as wallpaper and other appearance settings.

I'd recommend we delete any old password list files for the previous accounts. Right click *My Computer*, click *Explore*. In the left pane expand the *C:* drive. Right click the *Windows* folder and click *Find...*. Enter **.PWL* in the *Named:* box and click *Find Now*. It will find one or more files named *username.pwl*. One of these should be the username you just created. Leave this one alone, but rename the others to **.PWLOLD*. This is where Windows stores the passwords you use to logon, and also the passwords for connecting to shared folders on other PCs. When a user tries to logon again, Windows just says they've never logged on before, confirms the password and if the users wants to personalize settings, then creates a new file (and a user if they said yes to being able to personalize stuff)

After a few days you can delete the files if there are no problems. No real reason to keep them, but always a good idea to rename and test for a while before deleting something.

Also, if you don't want to have to enter the password each time it boots, you can install TweakUI and set it to logon for you. It's not on the MS website anymore, but you can download it from here. Be sure to get the 1.33 version for Win98. Has a few other useful features as well.

HTH

Jerry


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Elyon, glad to see you have access to your network. Been dropping in to see how things were going. Jerry sure knows his business.
Not sure about the desktop problem, so won't make any suggestions. 
When you hit cancel at Enter Network Password you are telling the computer not to sign on to the netwok. You get connected to the network with your new user name because that is your computer's network id. If you did the nbtstat -n command you will probably get a list of showing your user name and workgroup.

Hi, Jerry. Great job as usual.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Glad that worked. Means we don't have to go digging into the registry for a complete R&R.
> 
> Jerry


My original desktop only had Log Off ... and no user name and that's why after re-installing Client for Microsoft Networks and it came to the Welcome to Windows screen and had the *Registered to: name*, I *deleted* *this* and entered a new name. Likewise with the "Enter Network Password" box. This Windows desktop *won't allow me to browse the Network,* is it because it only says Log Off?? Checking "All Users.... have the same preferences" has made no difference.

Should i have left the *Registered to: name* in the Welcome to Windows box and left the password blank and done the same with the Enter Network Password box. Should i have hit *OK or cancel*? Wasn't sure what to do at these screens after re-installing Client for Microsoft Networks.

Do i need to uninstall and re-install Client for Microsoft Networks and leave the default name (the Registered to: ) in the Welcome to Windows and Enter Network Password boxes?

This is what i have when i do a nbtstat -n:

ACEROLD <00> UNIQUE Registered
WORKGROUP<00> GROUP Registered
ACEROLD <03> UNIQUE Registered
ACEROLD <20> UNIQUE Registered
WORKGROUP<1E> GROUP Registered
DEBBIE <03> UNIQUE Registered

Is this what is supposed to be there? And since i've checked the "All users......have the same preferences" the Win98 machine keeps freezing on me.


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Elyton, looks right, except for DEBBIE. 
I don't think it would hurt to try. The 98SE I have, my daughter bought in 1999 and same user name/password was entered at both places when first setup. It is still that way. Would check on it to see what happens, but I am not allowed to make any changes unless something is wrong. It's my wifes gaming computer.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> Elyton, looks right, except for DEBBIE.
> I don't think it would hurt to try.


Looks like i might have to uninstall and re-install Client for Microsoft Networks again, cause i've got 2 users, Debbie and Debbi000 in *Windows - Profiles.* I don't know how to remove them though cause there is no tab under *COntrol Panel | Users* to get rid of them. Everytime i go into Control Panel | Users i'm getting the Enable Multi-User Settings Wizard. Should i just delete them from within Windows??

Also, after i re-install and it comes to the Welcome to Windows screen do i just leave the *default name* that comes up (u know the *registered to: name*) and leave the password blank, then do i hit the *"OK"* button? Then do i do the same thing at the "Enter Network Password box"? The registered to: name has spaces in it eg. * & * *****, do u know where i can change this as the spaces could be causing a problem?

Not sure how to proceed when the Windows and Network boxes come up??

Also, once i'm logged onto the network do i have to log off to shut down computer?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

The DEBBIE <03> entry would be the user name you logged on with.

If the start menu just say Log Off, then a User did not log on, either you clicked cancel or pressed the Escape key. When you do that you can't browse the network.

I don't get the *Enable Multi-User Settings Wizard*; probably because I've already ran through it. I'll have to reset the system to get that to come back up.

You may need to run through the *Enable Multi-User Settings Wizard*. Then you can go straight to the Users windows. What the wizard does is add another client on the configuration tab in -- the *Microsoft Family Logon*. This presents the box with the list of users you can choose from (thumbnail #3 in post 10). It's handy if you have multiple users and does enable the network. It can be set back to the *Client for Microsoft Networks* logon, or deleted if you don't want/need it.

If the users don't appear in *Control Panel | Users* after running through the wizard, then you can just delete the folders under Windows\Profiles.

After re-installing the Client, i would expect the *Enter Network Password* box to come up. You can use the name that is in the box, or type a new one. You can leave the password blank or enter one.
If you leave *it* blank, the Welcome to Windows screen usually doesn't appear. If you enter a password, the Set Windows Password dialog appears and asks you to verify the password by typing it again (see #2 below).
If the user name has not been used before, you get the dialog shown below (#1). If you say yes, it will create a folder under C:\Windows\Profiles, copy some files, and should add the user to the *Control Panel | Users* Window.

My system just shows *User name:* on the boxes, not *Registered to:*; That may just be a customization the manufacturer did. Does that appear on the *Enter Network Password* box as well or does that one just say *User name:*?

Jerry


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

And the last question, you don't have to log off first. That just there so a different user can log on without having to reboot first.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Sorry for the confusion, when u right-click My Computer and click on Properties and under the General Tab it says *Registered to: name,* this is the name that keeps coming up in my logon boxes. The name is * & * *****, and was wondering since this name has a "&" and spaces in it, if it could be causing problems and if so do u know where i can change it? Does any of this make sense?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

The registered to name is stored in the registry here:

```
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
```
in the *RegisteredOwner* value.
*Start | Run* type *regedit* press enter
Navigate to the above folder and highlight it, then double click *RegisteredOwner* on the right and type what you want. *RegisteredOrganization* is also in this folder.

Windows should display the last name that was entered in the logon boxes, so once you type a new name into the box that should be the one that comes up. Is this not the case?

I know there are ways to NOT display the last name, have to do some digging to see if using that would cause the *RegisteredOwner* name to be used.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Jerry, u know how there is *"Jerry"* in your *thumbnail boxes*, was wondering if this is your registered to: name, and did it just come up automatically when you first logged on to Windows and then Network password box??

Should i get rid of the spaces in my RegisteredOwner value??

I've got a heap of *.pwl files too. Should i change all of them to *.pwlold??


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> since this name has a "&" and spaces in it, if it could be causing problems


Just logged in using "*Jerry & Friends*" as a user name and it works just fine, so spaces and ampersands are allowed. Only thing odd is the Start menu shows it as *Jerry _Friends*, converting the *&* to a *_*.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> Just logged in using "*Jerry & Friends*" as a user name and it works just fine, so spaces and ampersands are allowed. Only thing odd is the Start menu shows it as *Jerry _Friends*, converting the *&* to a *_*.
> 
> Jerry


Thanks for that. Did u see my last post about ".PWL" files? I'm going to have a go at trying to get rid of these users first. Then i'll try uninstalling and re-installing Client for Microsoft Networks again. At the Windows and Network Password boxes do i just hit "OK"? This time i'm not going to change the name that comes up in the boxes.

Will let u know how it goes.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

The Registered to name hasn't appeared in any of the password boxes. It's my first and last name.

You can rename all the pwl files. These are created when you type a name into one of the boxes, and contains the logon password. This is whats used to verify the password at the next logon.

If you delete the one for the name you are using, it will assume you've never used the PC before and prompt to verify the password, then create a new file. So deleting them is not a problem either.

You can choose to save passwords for network resources, like shared folders on another PC that require a password. If you save them, you don't have to re-enter the password. Deleting the pwl file just means you have to re-enter the password.

And yes, you have to hit OK and not Cancel on the boxes.
Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> The Registered to name hasn't appeared in any of the password boxes. It's my first and last name.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, at the *"Enable Multi-User Settings wizard"* do i have to create another user to get to the window or tab where i can remove all users?? Or can i just delete these users from C:\Windows\Profiles??

Having major probs at the moment, computer keeps freezing on me.

Also, do u know why my *registered to: name* is the one that is coming up in these log on to windows and network password boxes?


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi Jerry, i know what i'm going to ask sounds stupid, but i've got to ask anyway.

U know how u log on to the network with "Jerry" then u get *Log* *Off ...Jerry,* well if u rebooted your computer then hit "Cancel" would u come to a Windows Desktop with all your icons but with just a *Log* *Off...*? I want to have just one desktop that i come to, is this possible?

I thought i had this networking problem licked until these boxes kept appearing and not knowing whether to hit "OK" or "Cancel". I just want one Desktop, does this make any sense? Sorry, getting a bit frustrated by it all.

I don't understand how i can have two desktops, one if i hit "OK" and another if i hit "Cancel". Do u have 2 separate desktops or is it just that 1 of the desktops is connected to the network and the other isn't?

Can u please explain this cause i'm having trouble getting my head around this??

Also, i deleted all users under "C:\Windows\Profiles and i'm still getting "Debbie" after restarting the computer, even though there are* no users under Profiles.* Is it in the registry somewhere?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> Also, do u know why my *registered to: name* is the one that is coming up in these log on to windows and network password boxes?


It's got to be in the registry someplace. If Autologon is used, you can set a default username and password. If Autologon is not used, the password boxes should show the last user name. And we already checked that Autologon is not enabled.

Check the registry for the defaults:
*Start | Run* type *Regedit*
Navigate to this key:

```
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Winlogon
```
Delete the *DefaultUserName* value, or type in the name you want to always appear.
Reboot. Though this shouldn't make a difference.

You can also search the registry for the name
Open *Notepad*
*Start | Run* type *Regedit*
Click the *View* menu and make sure *Status Bar* is checked
Highlight *My Computer*
Press *CTRL+F*
Make sure the first three boxes are checked. You can also check the *Match whole string only* box, but there is a slight chance it could miss the entry, especially if there is a non-visible character after the name.
enter *Debbie* then click *Find Next* and note what it finds
When it finds something it will be highlighted. The key name will be in the status bar at the bottom, this will help find the key if it's a value that is highlighted. The key will be shown with an Open Folder Icon instead of a closed one. Left click on the key name to highlight it if it's not already, then right click and choose *Copy Key Name*
Right click in the Notepad window and click Paste. Press enter to start a new line and type the name of the value it found. (editing out any personal info if present)
Press F3 to continue searching after it finds something.
When it's finished searching, you can post the contents of the Notepad window if you are not sure if the items found are relevant.

And yes, I do get two desktops, but I'm set to allow users to personalize their settings. Both have the same Icons and start menu to start with, but I can add stuff to the Jerry Desktop or My Documents, or change the wallpaper, and they don't appear if I hit cancel. And Vice Versa.

I'm running this in a Virtual machine, so I reset the system so it was like a new install with no users. I log in with Jerry, then get the Set Windows password prompt, and it loads the desktop. The is no Profiles folder under Windows.
I get the same desktop whether I hit OK or cancel. If I hit OK, I get the Log Off Jerry, if I cancel I get just Log Off and can't access the network

*Control Panel | Users* starts the Wizard. I canceled that, went to *Control Panel | Passwords* then *User Profiles*, and changed the setting to *Users can customize...*
Prompted to reboot, then when I entered Jerry, it said I hadn't logged on before. Choose to customize settings, it copied some files and loaded the Desktop.
*Control Panel | Users* doesn't start the Wizard now, but goes straight to the *Users* windows. The Profiles folder now exists. I change the wall paper, and now If I cancel on the password box I get the original desktop but no netwrok, if I enter my password, I get the new one and can access the network.
This did not add the Microsoft Family logon client. So I'm gong to try again and run the wizard this time to see what happens.

The desktop and start menu settings are actually in separate folders under Windows:
Cookies
Desktop
History
Start Menu
and so on.
If you create a user and choose to copy settings, the settings you choose to personalize are copied from these folders to the Profile folder of the User.
An All Users folder is also created. I'm not sure if this is what is used when you hit cancel, or if the main folders under Windows are used. Will have to do some more testing.
Under Profiles, do you still have an All Users folder, or did you remove that one as well?

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

Thought it best if i wrote the steps that i've done.

1. Under C:\Windows\Profiles there was: All Users, Debbie, Debbi000.
2. Also got a WUTemp folder under C: drive now, don't know what this is either.
3. Went to Control Panel | Users and deleted Debbie (this was the only one listed) but this got rid of Debbi000 in C:\Windows\Profiles.
4. Then went to C:\Windows\Profiles and All Users and Debbie was still there. Deleted "Debbie". All Users is still there.
5. Rebooted.
6. The Network Password box came up with Debbie still in it. I hit "Cancel" and Windows loaded.
7. Still have "All Users" in C:\Windows\Profiles.
8. Went and removed Client for Microsoft Networks. "Your Network is not complete. Do you want to continue?'" Hit Yes. 
9. System restarted. 
10. Then it came up with Welcome to Windows with Debbie in it. Again i hit Cancel and Windows loaded.
11. Ran Regedit and did Ctrl + F. Nothing was found in Registry.

I want to re-install Client for Microsoft Networks but i don't know what to put now when each box comes up. I don't want to keep getting Debbie and Debbi000 as well.

So can u tell me what to do next, especially at the Welcome to Windows box and then at the Set Network Password box? I don't understand when it says that you haven't logged on before and asks about preferences?

I think what is confusing me is that before trying to network the Win98 i didn't have a "Welcome to Windows" box appear everytime i restarted the pc.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Until you type a different name in the User name box, Debbie will always appear there. Windows will show the last user that logged on. That value is set at

```
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Network\Logon
```
. You can edit that and put in a different name. Windows will change this to the name used to logon with as soon as somebody logs on.

I think we need to reset the system so it doesn't use Profiles, then you can add the Client for Microsoft Networks back in.

First lets copy the *Windows\Profiles\All Users* folder to the desktop. Right click on it and drag it to the desktop using the right mouse button. When you release the mouse button, choose *Copy Here* from the pop-up menu. What files/folders does this contain? All I've seen on mine so far is an Application Data folder that Norton uses when it updates.
Go into *Control Panel | Passwords User Profiles* tab and check the box for *All users of this computer use the same...*
Click *OK*, but do not reboot.
*Start | Run* type *regedit* and press enter
Navigate to:

```
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ProfileList
```
Highlight *ProfileList*, then on the Menu bar click *Registry | Export Registry file...*
Name this *profile* and save it on the desktop. Now delete the *ProfileList* key
Close *Regedit *and then reboot. At the password prompt hit cancel.
When the desktop loads, go into My Computer and delete the *Windows\Profiles* folder.
Use find and search *Windows* for **.pwl*. Delete all *pwl* files found.

Now re-install the Client for Microsoft Networks. Reboot.
At the *Enter Network Password* prompt, delete whatever is in the *User name:* box and type the name you want to use as your user name. Enter a password if desired, or leave it blank. If you enter a password, the next window should be the *Set Windows Password* box. Re-type the password. If you get the dialog about not having signed in before and do you want to save your preferences, say No.

This should boot you to the desktop that you have been seeing when you press cancel.

If all your icons and start menu items are there, it should be good to go. And you can probably delete the All Users folder we copied to the Desktop.

If anything is missing though, check the *All Users* folder; if it has a Desktop or Start Menu folder, the missing items might be in there.

Jerry

Hmm, seems TSG is having problems, won't let me post. Will try again in a few minutes...


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> I think what is confusing me is that before trying to network the Win98 i didn't have a "Welcome to Windows" box appear everytime i restarted the pc.


With out networking, i.e. using the Windows Logon, The Welcome to Windows box only appears if you have a password. If it's blank, you'll boot straight to the desktop.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> With out networking, i.e. using the Windows Logon, The Welcome to Windows box only appears if you have a password. If it's blank, you'll boot straight to the desktop.
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry,

Thanks for helping me so much with this, i really appreciate it.

Do you have a folder named "WUTemp" on your C: drive? Do you know what this is?

The only thing that is under my Profiles "All Users" is Application Data - Symantec shared. Do u have many entries under *your Profiles: All Users*? I've also got a "New user" under *Profiles* which is a start, as i can access the network with this user.

*But now I think i've done something i shouldn't have*. I've *deleted* a User that i think must have been there when i first loaded Windows98SE (this User folder was the same name as my RegisteredOwner name) or do User Profiles only get there after you've set them up and connected to the Network? Have looked for this User in Recycled and it's not there. If you permanenetly delete the folder is it anywhere on the hard drive, or is it gone for good?? I've restarted the computer so many times and only realised that maybe i should have kept this User. It said that this User was too big for the Recyle Bin and would be permanently deleted, it just didn't click, until it was too late. *Is this User really gone????*

Also, when you do a *nbtstat -n* do you get your name listed e.g. UserName <03> Unique Registered? When i do a nbtstat -n on the Laptop and WinXP machines they don't show any usernames just their Computernames & Workgroup. But when i do a nbtstat -n on the Win98se machine it shows the Computername, Workgroup and my Username. Have i still got this network set up wrong?


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

bump


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> With out networking, i.e. using the Windows Logon, The Welcome to Windows box only appears if you have a password. If it's blank, you'll boot straight to the desktop.
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry,

Did u see my post #55 "When you do a *nbtstat -n* do you get your name listed e.g. UserName <03> Unique Registered? When i do a nbtstat -n on the Laptop and WinXP machines they don't show any usernames just their Computernames & Workgroup. But when i do a nbtstat -n on the Win98se machine it shows the Computername, Workgroup and my Username. Have i still got this network set up wrong?"

Can u tell me what comes up on your Win98?


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

LouiseGW was used for both Windows Logon and Network Logon Name on this computer so I don't know if this will help you. Shot of my nbtstat -n.
Added:Registered name is Valued gateway Client and LouiseGW is the only user.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> LouiseGW was used for both Windows Logon and Network Logon Name on this computer so I don't know if this will help you. Shot of my nbtstat -n.
> Added:Registered name is Valued gateway Client and LouiseGW is the only user.


Hi dlsayremn. Thanks for the reply and thumbnail. Can u tell me what to do after i've hit print screen, where do i save it to, to add to my next post. I've got one more entry than your thumbnail.


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Hi, Elyon. Yes I noticed that. Have been looking, but cannot find any information that explains what each line references. Only thing I am fairly certain of is that none is referencing Registered to Name.

Screenshots: After doing the PrtScr, go to Start, Programs, Accessories, and open Paint. click Edit and then Paste. May get a message that Clipboard is bigger than map, Would you like to enlarge the map. If so, just click Yes. Then the usual File, Save or Save as. Usually save to Documents.

Main problem I have is that Paint only saves as bit map (.bmp) file and full scren shot is about 2.7 Mb and forum limits are 300kb/picture. Need to either trim a lot off or convert to somethiong else (.gif or.jpeg). A full screen desktop ,jpeg is only about 280kb.I don't have anything on 98SE to convert .bmp to .jpeg. 

Since I am normally writting on my Vista, I pull up a copy of the 98SE .bmp file and use the snipping tool to make to make changes. Snipping tool sves files as .jpeg.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

dlsayremn said:


> Hi, Elyon. Yes I noticed that. Have been looking, but cannot find any information that explains what each line references.


Hi dlsayremn. Maybe i shouldn't worry about the nbtstat -n on the Win98se machine. It's just that when i do a nbtstat -n on my Laptop and WinXP it doesn't list any usernames only computernames and workgroup.

I think the Win98se computer still isn't right as far as networking goes because it keeps freezing on me and some programs are really slow to open. Will have to go back over Jerry's steps.

Also, do u have a "WUTemp" folder on the C: drive of your Win98se computer and is it anything to do with Networking?


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Yes , I have a WUTemp folder. Understand it is used by Windows Update as a temporary depository. Anything put in it is deletedt at next startup.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Thanks for helping me so much with this, i really appreciate it.
> 
> Do you have a folder named "WUTemp" on your C: drive? Do you know what this is?


This is used by Windows Update. It's usually empty unless you in the middle of downloading/installing updates. If an update fails for some reason, files might be left behind. You can delete the contents if there are any, and then just go back to Windows Update to see if it finds anything that may still need to be installed. This is a hidden folder, so it won't be seen unless you've opted to show all files.


ELYON said:


> Also, when you do a *nbtstat -n* do you get your name listed e.g. UserName <03> Unique Registered? When i do a nbtstat -n on the Laptop and WinXP machines they don't show any usernames just their Computernames & Workgroup. But when i do a nbtstat -n on the Win98se machine it shows the Computername, Workgroup and my Username. Have i still got this network set up wrong?


If you don't see any <03> entries on Vista or XP I suspect you've disabled the Messenger Service (Not related to Windows Messenger or MSN Messenger). This is often recommend to stop Messenger Service Spam.
This article shows how to turn that off. No need to have it running unless you need it for something, like using the Net Send command.
Disabling Messenger Service in Windows XP 
With this disablled, you'll only see <00> <20> and <1E> entries, no <03> entries.


ELYON said:


> The only thing that is under my Profiles "All Users" is Application Data - Symantec shared. Do u have many entries under *your Profiles: All Users*? I've also got a "New user" under *Profiles* which is a start, as i can access the network with this user.





TheOutcaste said:


> All I've seen on mine so far is an Application Data folder that Norton uses when it updates.


Guess I didn't name the folder, Norton/Symantec same company. All I had is the same Symantec Shared folder you see.



ELYON said:


> *But now I think i've done something i shouldn't have*. I've *deleted* a User that i think must have been there when i first loaded Windows98SE (this User folder was the same name as my RegisteredOwner name) or do User Profiles only get there after you've set them up and connected to the Network? Have looked for this User in Recycled and it's not there. If you permanenetly delete the folder is it anywhere on the hard drive, or is it gone for good?? I've restarted the computer so many times and only realised that maybe i should have kept this User. It said that this User was too big for the Recyle Bin and would be permanently deleted, it just didn't click, until it was too late. *Is this User really gone????*


Maybe. You have a Symantec product installed. If it's Norton Utilities, or Norton Systemworks and not just the AntiVirus, you should have the *Norton Protected Recycle Bin*. If you do, and you haven't emptied it, and it hasn't been deleted because the *Norton Protected Recycle Bin* is full, it will still be there. Otherwise, it's likely gone, though depending on when you deleted it, and where it was stored on the disk, some of the files and folders may remain that recovery software could find.

Right click the Recycle bin. If you do have the you'll see it on the list (thumbnail#1) If so, click on *Unerase Wizard* then select *Find all protected files on local drives*. You can sort the list by Name or by Location by clicking the column headers, and widen the columns by pointing the mouse to the line between headings (red circle in Thumbnail#2). When the pointer changes to this







, click and drag to the right (you can drag past the edge of the box). Look for anything under Windows\Profiles\_username_. Not that it's not always in the alphabetical order you would expect, so check the entire list.

You can also check the *Find all recoverable files matching your criteria* box and search for files by name, or extension, or by a word contained in the file. That might find some files, but only if they haven't already been overwritten.

If this profile was created by copying the "default" profile, the only thing that will be lost are items created after the profile was created. Shortcuts to programs that were on the Desktop or Start Menu can be easily re-created. Application Data is mostly program customizations like Toolbar configurations, default save in folder and so on, also easy to redo. My Documents and emails if you are using Outlook Express or Outlook are stored in the user profile, so if the *Unerase Wizard* can't find them, they are likely gone, though other file recovery applications may work better than this Norton tool.

dlsayremn's nbtstat list is one less than yours because I suspect the Computer name is the same as the User name, LOUISEGW, so there will only be one <03> entry.

@dlsayremn -- I used to have a list of what those codes in the NBTSTAT command are, I'll have to see if I can track it down. Also, for screenshots, the WinXP/Vista versions of MS-Paint can save files as JPG, so you can just open and convert by changing the Save As type using MS-Paint.

HTH

Jerry


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

dlsayremn said:


> Hi, Elyon. Yes I noticed that. Have been looking, but cannot find any information that explains what each line references.


NetBIOS Suffixes

Jerry


----------



## dlsayremn (Feb 10, 2008)

Jerry, thanks for Netbios suffix list. 
You are right, User and Computer names are the same and no other users were ever set up.


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> If this profile was created by copying the "default" profile, the only thing that will be lost are items created after the profile was created. Shortcuts to programs that were on the Desktop or Start Menu can be easily re-created. Application Data is mostly program customizations like Toolbar configurations, default save in folder and so on, also easy to redo. My Documents and emails if you are using Outlook Express or Outlook are stored in the user profile, so if the *Unerase Wizard* can't find them, they are likely gone, though other file recovery applications may work better than this Norton tool.
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry,

Been trying to find emails from Outlook Express. Had a look under C:\Windows\Profiles\Users and can't find a folder with emails in it. Did u save your emails to a specific folder under user profiles or does Outlook Express save them there? I've only got a folder for Outlook Express under Program Files.

How do i save my emails so that they are under user profiles?

Also, can u tell me if there is a a data recovery program for Win98se similar to Norton GoBack. Had Norton GoBack installed but it was causing so many problems that i got rid of it. Was wondering if there's something for Win98se that's similar to the System Restore option in WinXP and Vista?


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

TheOutcaste said:


> If this profile was created by copying the "default" profile, the only thing that will be lost are items created after the profile was created. Shortcuts to programs that were on the Desktop or Start Menu can be easily re-created. Application Data is mostly program customizations like Toolbar configurations, default save in folder and so on, also easy to redo. My Documents and emails if you are using Outlook Express or Outlook are stored in the user profile, so if the *Unerase Wizard* can't find them, they are likely gone, though other file recovery applications may work better than this Norton tool.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, can u recommend other file recovery applications that work with Win98se so i can find the user files that were deleted. Is there an application that works like WinXP and Vista's System Restore Point?


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

ELYON said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Been trying to find emails from Outlook Express. Had a look under C:\Windows\Profiles\Users and can't find a folder with emails in it. Did u save your emails to a specific folder under user profiles or does Outlook Express save them there? I've only got a folder for Outlook Express under Program Files.
> 
> How do i save my emails so that they are under user profiles?


This is the default path to where Outlook Express stores email if you are *not* using user profiles. The part in red (called GUID) is different on each PC. Call this the 1st path: 

```
C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Identities\[COLOR=Red]{D7C3C0A0-BD17-11DC-8912-E2BAB1040D14}[/COLOR]\Microsoft\Outlook Express
```
If you are using profiles, this is the default path. Call this the 2nd path:

```
C:\WINDOWS\Profiles\Jerry\Application Data\Identities\[COLOR=Red]{D7C3C0A0-BD17-11DC-8912-E2BAB1040D14}[/COLOR]\Microsoft\Outlook Express
```
If you've used OE _before_ creating users, the files will be in the first path shown above.

OE doesn't handle creating new users very well. When you create new users, the existing files from the 1st path will be copied to each user that is created, even if you don't check any thing in the wizard, and choose to create new folders rather than copies.
So each user will have a copy of all emails up to the point the first user was created. You can add/delete accounts and it won't affect the other users, but each user will still use the 1st path to store emails.
You have to change the store folder for each user to truly separate the user accounts. This is done from the *Tools | Options | Maintenance* tab, *Store Folder...* button. Just need to browse to the *Outlook Express* folder under the correct profile.
The problem is, when you do that, the files are _moved_ from the original location. If any user has created a new account, their emails will be moved to the profile of the first person that changes their store folder. When that user signs in and starts OE, new folders will be created, but they will be empty (of course hotmail and MSN accounts will still have anything that was left online).

You can create a new folder anywhere in the profile, like in *C:\WINDOWS\Profiles\Jerry\My Documents\OE Email*, and use that folder.

I haven't tested to see what happens if you setup users first. OE may still point to the 1st path.

Edit: If you setup users before running OE, it will use the users profile for it's files.



ELYON said:


> Also, can u tell me if there is a a data recovery program for Win98se similar to Norton GoBack. Had Norton GoBack installed but it was causing so many problems that i got rid of it. Was wondering if there's something for Win98se that's similar to the System Restore option in WinXP and Vista?


I'm not familiar with any. I think the best solution is creating an image with Acronis/Ghost or the like and regular backups of your data. And backing up to more than one location. I have had a backup drive fail just a couple of days after the main drive failed -- before I got a replacement and was able to restore the data.



ELYON said:


> Jerry, can u recommend other file recovery applications that work with Win98se so i can find the user files that were deleted. Is there an application that works like WinXP and Vista's System Restore Point?


Elvandil has a pretty complete list in this post
I've used Getdata back and had good luck with it. Don't think I've used it on a Win9x system, but it is compatible. It also lets you try it before you buy it to see what it can find.
Other than that I can't really recommend anything specific.

It's best to connect the drive to a different PC to do the recovery. Installing anything onto that drive, and even just using it could overwrite anything that is still there.

Jerry


----------



## ELYON (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks again for all your help Jerry. I've found my emails. The Win98se computer is on the network now. Will mark this thread as solved.


----------



## TheOutcaste (Aug 8, 2007)

Glad you found them, and glad to help!

Jerry


----------

