# [Resolved] Nero hangs on launch; Word misbehaves



## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Running W98SE on P-III/500. IDE HD, Plextor 40x burner, and standard floppy. Was very stable system until a few months ago, after I had run a Repair on IE6 SP1, installed a few Windows Critical Updates, and a few innocuous apps (WS_FTP Pro, SnagIt, PhotoShop Elements). Also installed WinAmp, which gave some problems until a few wipes and reinstalls (which was on 10/4/02).

Misbehavior began a number of months ago with intermittent problems in Word 2000. I use Outline view a lot and have macro keys set to control indents, etc, simulating simple keystrokes. On occasion, though, Word acts up: macros don't work, hotlinks don't work (web and email doesn't click through), and small icons at lower left screen to select page views don't work (but View menu still does). Also, selecting a command like Find sometimes results in the whole program -- Title Bar, program icon in Task Bar, etc -- blinking on and off (normal to dim to normal to dim) and no mouse or keystrokes work until I switch to another app and then back to Word, which always gets rid of the blinking and restores basic functionality but doesn't bring back the macros, hotlinks, and view icons (though those sometimes work just fine).

A few months ago, my Nero 5.5 also started acting up, after having worked like a charm form many months. It started to intermittently freeze on launch, always at the "Scanning SCZI/IDE bus" status. End Task would close it and all other apps would work fine, but a system Shutdown after Nero froze always hangs. Once, when I attempted a Shutdown after Nero froze, I got a "Not Responding" window entitled "DDE Serve Window", and when I went into the Task List it shows WS_FTP Pro is Not Responding, which is very weird since I had had it open but it worked fine and closed fine.

Another time when Shutdown hung after the Nero launch freeze the Task List showed only one item in it: RunDLL32, and an attempted End Task on it popped up a Not Responding window on it (though I suspect that's too generic of a message to tell us anything).

On rare occasions, my Cool Edit audio editing program misbehaves, too. It won't record, or won't play back ("not enough memory" message, which is not accurate).

What I'm assuming is that a DDE-related file (DLL or something) that is not basic to Windows but was installed by and is shared by a number of apps (Nero, Word, WS_FTP Pro, "etc") is corrupt or a file version is incompatible with others.

I did a Find Files for filenames with DDE in them and the only ones that jumped out at me as having been installed in the past few months were in the Real Player program folder, and were dated 10/4/02. I searched the Windows folder for all files of that date and noticed WinAmp was installed on that date, which gave me a lot of problems when I was installing it.

I also see Mplayer2.lgc dated 10/4/02. Im guessing this is the date the problem occurred.

To clarify: Nero freezes on launch only sometimes, and apparently only after Word or another program that shares the problem file has been open (even if I then close it). No other programs are hanging, or causing Shutdown problems  only Nero. Every single time Nero freezes on launch, its at the Scanning SCZI/IDE bus status, and every single time that happens, I can End Task on it and go back to work, but 100% of the time a subsequent system Shutdown will hang (it starts the process, spins the floppy drive a moment like normal, and then hangs with an empty green screen  Desktop with nothing on it). Nero had been working fine for months after first being installed.

I've already tried, wiping Nero including having their tech support show me how to clean the registry, and then going to the latest version; doing the same with the ATI video driver (Nero's web site hinted they might be related); keeping a CD in the drive on launching Nero; disabling everything logical in MSCONFIG Startup; and a Repair on Office 2000. Nero's U.S.-based tech support is now suggesting I unplug the CD drive and see if it's hardware, which tells me their lost. Once Nero launches, I can burn and play back all day long without a glitch; I seriously doubt it's hardware.

Ideally, I'd like to find a way to "see" what Nero is hanging on when I try to launch it, or else what its leaving "open" that prevents a system Shutdown each time it hangs on launch. I don't know how to see that, though.

I'm thinking my best bet is to "pick" a program to uninstall that is a suspect or, rather, that seems to share the problem file. I'll have to then do one of two things when it says it wants to delete a file that may be shared: either say Yes and then reinstall the program from CD and hope it replaces the questionable file, or say No and list each shared file and then manually replace them all (unless one or two jump out as being highly suspect).

Any advice, comments, thoughts, intuitions, or psychic insights, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

There are two ways to approach the set of problems you are having; one is to look for software conflicts and "hidden" installs that could be interfering with them. And we can probably do that in this forum. The other is to treat them as individual problems associated with specific programs. Nero issues might best be handled in All Other Software, while Word would be a "Business" application. Outlook: Web and Email.... (There is an article for "hyperlinks" not working that I will refer you to here.

But for now, let's have a look at the current running configuration. Using the StartupList application available from the site below, run it and copy/paste the results to a reply.

http://www.lurkhere.com/~nicefiles/

hyperlink issues:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q177054

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q175306


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Rollin' Rog,

Thanks for the quick reply and advice.

I've just downloaded and installed WMP 9. I'm now downloading and installing the Office 2000 SR-1 Update. (I may also do the same with Office 2000 SP-3 after that.) I'm "hoping" that with all that, odds are I may end up replacing the guilty file(s).

(I'm also hoping not to run into too many problems with this updating of Office 2000 -- the "update from web" option failed after stringing me along for almost an hour, and then I saw a number of Web articles saying this has been a very problematic procedure for plenty of others. I hope it at least keeps all of my customizations if it does work.)

When the current download is done, I'll get and run the Startup diagnostic you suggested and post the results.

As to the hyperlinks issue, I looked at the KB articles you listed, but neither seems to apply to my problem. My default browser and email settings are fine. I have no trouble with hyperlinks in any other apps, just in Word, where I don't even get a "hand" for the mouse cursor when positioning it over the hyperlinked text. (It seems the longer I have Word running at any given time, the more likely it is that the hyperlinks will stop working... I think.)

Thanks again.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You're welcome Joe and I hope the new downloads take care of the problem. What you describe with the mouse cursor could actually be a video driver issue (not ruling out the mouse either). Why it occurs with Word exclusively I don't know, but it could have to do with the way it uses memory.

If an update is available for your video drivers, I'd get it. Otherwise, if the problem continues, I'd just remove and reinstall them.

And you haven't said how much ram is installed in the system, from the programs you are running (Word, Nero, PhotoShop) it sounds like you need a minimum of 256 mb (Win9x does not have good support for more than 512 mb unless certain adjustments are made to System.ini. If you have more than 512 mb, that could actually be a source of problems). Available virtual memory for the swap file on the drive is another part of the equation.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

As I said initially, I already wiped and reinstalled the video driver, even wiping the registry. I also went to the newest version and when that didn't help the Nero freeze issue I went back to a clean install of the old one, still with no help. (I didn't bother seeing what effect those steps had on Word.) ATI tells me the new driver won't do a thing for me anyway, just help gamers.

I have 256 MB RAM and there's plenty of room on the HD for the swap drive (over 5GB of a 20GB drive).

Thanks again.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, I've done all the Service Release and Service Pack updates etc for Office and the problem is still there (I'm really not concerned with Word misbehaving -- it was still misbehaving after the SR-1 update but I haven't yet tried after SP-3 update), but I certainly AM concerned about the Nero freezing, which has now gotten worse -- now other apps refuse to launch after a Nero startup freeze and end task to close it. (Maybe that was already an intermittent characteristic of the problem, I don't really know.) I just got Nero to launch successfully, as it often does, and then I burned 20 CDs, no problem as always. I then closed the program and immediately attempted to relaunch it -- and it froze! I'm seeing that Outlook and/or Word is usually opened before Nero will freeze (or maybe it's just Outlook -- I'm not sure). I updated he obligatory update to Outlook after installing Office SR-3, BTW.

I ran the StartupList utility that you suggested, for what it's worth, and here are the results (though I remind you that I turned off everything in MSCONFIG that was feasible or possibly suspect and that didn't help, and my StartUp folder was empty, too -- the list below is after I later turned all of that back on). I didn't want to put the output list on this forum page, so I put it on my web site instead:

www.silver100.com/startuplist.txt


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Well you've been talking about Nero, but all I see in those startups are entries for Adaptec -- which appears to be an older version at that. I think you may have a conflict between the two installations. I have seen many issues with older Adaptec software, especially the DirectCD component, which once it starts stays in the background until it is end-tasked. If you want to use Adaptec, you should upgrade to the latest version, but I would not have them both installed at once. CD burning software will place some vxd's in the c:\windows\system\iosubsys folder that load on startup regardless of the msconfig selections. It can be a pain to identify them if they remain after the uninstall process. But you can go through the folder looking at the Propeties > Version of each. Most will be Microsoft, but some you will see identified with burning software vendors.

If you want to keep Adaptec, Nero says to rename the scsi1hlp.vxd

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/170.htm#o170

There is a Nero FAQ and Help site here, I don't know whether you've seen it:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/c1002822798638.html#c1002822798638

The only other anomally in your startups is the mdac/runonce entry which was not removed when installed, due to a bug.

To remove it, run *regedit* and navigate to:

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

In the right hand pane you will see:

mdac_runonce = C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\runonce.exe

...just right click on that and delete it.

MS whassup here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q268062


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Rollin' Rog,

You're the best!

I had seen the Nero troubleshooting page in the past but for some reason only focused on the "Crashes and system hangs" link and never noticed the next one, "Handling conflicts with other CD-recording software (Information)". It may just be the ticket.

I finally got a reply from Nero Tech support in Germany via email. They asked me to run the Nero Info Tool in the Nero Toolkit and send them the text file, which I did. It's also on my site at:

www.silver100.com/InfoTool.txt

I'm tempted to ask Roxio for a walk-through on doing a clean, thorough uninstall of Easy CD Creator. Having Nero, which I love (it lets me multitask on my P-III/500 256RAM W98SE machine all day long, with only minimal degradation in response times, while Easy CD Creator rendered the machine entirely useless while burning), I have no need for any of the features in Easy CD Creator and will probably never use it.

What do you think? Is it advisable to wait for Nero tech support to get back to me and/or have Roxio tech support walk me through the thorough uninstall, or just go for it with the normal uninstall procedure (Add/Remove) and then check the four VXD files listed on the Nero site under "drivers of other CD burner programs" for Adaptec? I'm a bit confused, though, since you say it's a matter of checking file versions. The list provided by Nero indicates only four VXD files that Adaptec might install:

www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/139.htm#o139

All four of those Adaptec drivers are in the folder now. I presume that if any of them are left after uninstalling Easy CD Creator, I should just delete them, right? Or are they shared by Nero and is it a matter of getting the right versions from Nero, probably by just uninstalling and reinstalling Nero after removing Easy CD Creator? Maybe I should do that afterwards anyway to be safe. (Maybe I should ask Nero this question.)

Do you think I need to look further for other files in the IOSUBSYS folder, too, by checking over the Properties/versions as you mentioned?

(By the way, that MDAC RunOnce item wasn't launching a window at startup as the MS KB article mentions, but it appeared in the Registry as the KB article indicated, so I removed it. I don't expect this was contributing to any of my problems, though, do you?)

THANKS AGAIN!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Can you tell about Nero (if retail or bundled with drive and if you've used the download from thir site to update from an earlier version) and the versions of the Adaptec software?

What you probably want to end up with here is the windows version of the ASPI layer (rather than Adaptec's).
Renaming scsi1hlp.vxd to scsi1hlp.old probably won't hurt you (tho' probably not really necessary). It's only used by some older stuff.

I have a question - Do you also have a ZIP drive (particularly parallel port type)?

Additionally - can you do a search of the HD on the file MFC42.dll and tell me how many you have, and where they are scattered?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Joe I'd start with the simple stuff like renaming the scsi1hlp.vxd in c:\windows\system\iosubsys folder. I've seen this cause numerous problems in the past, often blue screens.

Beyond that I would rather defer to IMM who I see has posted here. I've only worked with Roxio's software, recently at that, and have not had to uninstall it. The couple of threads I've been privy to where the uninstall caused problems, they were immediately apparent due to startup problems. The resolution seemed to be to identify components left behind in the iosubsys folder. One of them might be the apix.vxd which I think IMM is referring to, and while required, the version that is installed with Adaptec's earlier versions has had compatibilty problems. I don't think they install it any more.

Anyway, here is a link from Plextor which gives their advice on uninstalling Adaptec. I'd wait and see what IMM thinks, before following the procedure. It's not clear to me which aspi layer you end up with following all the steps here as it involves a reinstall as well.

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/faqs/How_To/Uninstall_Install_ezcd_Basic.html


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I was delayed in getting the Nero InfoTool.txt file on my site (as mentioned in message #8 of this thread). It's there now.

First I installed Easy CD Creator Basic 5, which came bundled with the Plextor drive. It currently shows as version 5.1.1.102, but I really don't recall if I ever downloaded an update from the Roxio web site. If I did, it was probably -- make that CERTAINLY -- before I installed Nero, did the repair on IE6 SP1, and installed recent Windows updates, all the Office updates, etc.

So, first I installed Easy CD Creator (and possibly updated it to what it is now). Then, I installed Nero. I bought it over their web site and downloaded it. They since came out with an updated version. I first ran a repair on IE6 SP1. Then I wiped my previous version completely, including the registry, and then installed the newest version, which I have now, which is version 5.5.9.17.

Note that I then also wiped the ATI video driver, installed the newer one, wiped that one clean, and went back to the older one (as described in my earlier posts in this thread), all to no avail.

Throughout, I installed a few Windows Critical Updates, usually right as soon as they were released. A few days ago I installed all the available updates to Office 2000.

It's interesting you mention the ASPI layer. Nero's tech support in California speculated that an incompatibility here might be the problem, but then he dropped the subject and he and others told me it's both very unlikely that that's the problem and almost impossible for me to do anything about it even if it is the problem.

I had an Adaptec SCSI card and an internal Iomega Zip drive running off of it a long time ago, but they were completely removed from the system before I installed the CD drive or any burning software.

Five instances of MFC42.dll turned up on searching the C: drive:
__________

C:\Windows\System (version 6.00.8665.0)

C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero (version 6.00.8665.0)

C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\WaveEditor (version 6.00.8665.0)

C:\Program Files\Ahead\coverdesigner (version 6.00.8665.0)

C:\UPS\UOWS\Shared\REMOTE\INSTALL\CCIM\Singles (version 6.00.8447.0)
__________

THANKS AGAIN, TO BOTH OF YOU!!!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

If your other scsi and scsi like deivces are gone

Let's start by giving you the windows ASPI layer

Rename the follwoing files with and extension such as .ADP to call them Adaptec's
I usually do this from DOS in case they are in use - but you can try from windows (or email me and I'll send a batch file to do it)

C:\Windows\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS\APIX.VXD 
C:\Windows\SYSTEM\WINASPI.DLL 
C:\Windows\SYSTEM\WNASPI32.DLL 
C:\Windows\SYSTEM\ASPIENUM.VXD

Next extract the windows versions of the files using SFC > extract one file

\Windows\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS\APIX.VXD
\Windows\SYSTEM\WINASPI.DLL 
\Windows\SYSTEM\WNASPI32.DLL
\Windows\SYSTEM\ASPI2HLP.SYS (this is windows version of aspienum.vxd)

Next check the following using regedit
The key
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\APIX
should have an entry called ExcludeMiniports and this should be a null string "" (ie empty quotes)

Check config.sys for loads re scsi or cd drivers (or posting the contents would be nice)

-----------------
Here's a partial list of junk drivers which may be floating from the iomega install (or perhaps not).
Most will be in c:\Windows\System\Iosubsys

Some of these have windows equivalents and you will have to be careful about deleting (though SFC will get the ones from the Windows CD)

aic78xx.mpd
asc.mpd
imgdet.vxd
imgdll16.dll
imgdll32.dll
iomega.vxd
pc1616.mpd
ppa3.mpd
scsidll.dll
sparrow.mpd


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Just had a quick look at your startuplist and I think that I'd remvove the Visual C stuff from the UPS directory. If you can send me a dir list - I'll indicate which files should go.

Using msconfig uncheck the following
AdaptecDirectCD = "C:\Program Files\Adaptec\Easy CD Creator 5\DirectCD\DirectCD.exe"
PLXSTART = C:\PROGRA~1\PLEXTO~1\PLXSTART.EXE
PLXTASK = C:\PROGRA~1\PLEXTO~1\PLXTASK.EXE

at least temporarily (I think DirectCD should go away permanently).

This one (ati2evxx.exe) is a resource hog of almopst no utility - I'd disable it.
Have the Sentinel drivers been on the machine for quite a while - or are they new?

When troubleshooting burners I like to remove the burning plugins from WMP and Windows Media Player as well.
I'll look through it more carefully later.

One more thing to look at - boot to SAFE mode and see if there are multiple instances of yor CD drives (and HD's) in Device Manager.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM,

I'm extremely grateful to you for all the detailed help!

I'm going to remove Easy CD Creator from my machine based on everything I've seen in this thread. I will want to coordinate the implementation of the steps you spelled out with that. As you've seen in this thread, this removal might create tricky problems in light of everything we're dealing with. I certainly don't mean to second-guess you. I just want to make sure you're taking this into account and I do things in the proper sequence.

Frankly, I'll feel a lot more sure-footed in doing all this when the Nero tech in Germany responds back to me. I've pointed him to this thread and asked him to look it over, and I'm hoping he'll read it in detail and guide me in detail. What do you thiink of that?

The four files you suggested I replace with extracted files from the W98 CD are all currently showing as:

version 4.60 (1017), Adaptec, 11/12/98

To replace them, well, I guess they do have to come off the W98 CD since I don't see any newer versions available on the MS site.

The registry key you described does contain a null string -- and, of course, there's also:

(Default) - (value not set)

Config.sys isn't loading any SCSI or CD drivers. Here it is to see (of course, I renamed it to Config-sys.txt just to show it here):

www.silver100.com/Config-sys.txt

FYI, here's the complete Autoexec.bat file, too:

www.silver100.com/Autoexec-bat.txt

Well, this is about the point where I'm starting to get uncertain.

When you say "here's a partial list of junk drivers", what do I do? I assume the first step is to replace them all off the W98 CD, of course. How important is it that I look for others? (Doesn't Iomega provide a utility or -- let's be more realistic -- at least a list? Same goes for Adaptec, for that matter. Well, I guess not.)

Here's what I currently show for that list:

aic78xx.mpd = ...\IOSUBSYS, v2.21a, Microsoft, 4/23/99
asc.mpd = ...\IOSUBSYS, 2.9C, Iomega, 7/15/98
imgdet.vxd = Does not exist anywhere on the machine.
imgdll16.dll = Does not exist anywhere on the machine. 
imgdll32.dll = Does not exist anywhere on the machine.
iomega.vxd = ...\IOSUBSYS, 2.9C, Iomega, 3/2/01
pc1616.mpd = Does not exist anywhere on the machine.
ppa3.mpd = ...\IOSUBSYS, 2.9C, Iomega*, 7/15/98
scsidll.dll = ...\SYSTEM, 6, 1, 0, 7, Iomega**, 2/8/99
sparrow.mpd = ...\IOSUBSYS, v2.04, Adaptec, 9/1/98

* Iomega Parallel Port Mini-Port Driver
** Comments = $

I'm not clear on how many of those I'm supposed to replace from, or just discard -- or if any are common files to be left in place. (I don't know if the ones that don't currently exist need to be restored, either.)

As to UPS, well, I'll be more comfortable double-checking with them (they've got good tech support and ready access to supervisors). Again, not trying to second-guess you. Just being prudent. I'm wondering what it can matter since I never seem to have any problems with UPS and I assume nothing in that folder is gong to load without the program being launched -- or am I missing something? In any case, I have no clue what to look for in order to send you a directory list (or how to send the list other than screen shots in a graphic, unless it's a reasonably short list).

I assume DirectCD will go when I uninstall Easy CD Creator. If not, I'll uninstall it anyway. Remember (somewhere "way up there" in this thread it's mentioned), I already disabled the three Startup items you mentioned and it didn't help the Nero freeze. If you still suggest I temporarily disable them, I need to know when.

Getting rid of ati2evxx.exe is no problem, if you say it's useless.

I have no idea what the Sentinel drivers are, so I can't answer.

I will also need guidance on removing the burner plugins in WMP and Windows Media Player (aren't those the same thing) if and when we get to that point.

I've often checked for multiple instances of things in Safe Mode and neither drive appeared twice.

Whew! Well, I was getting a bit optimistic there for a moment, but now I'm not sure if you or anyone is going to have the head for wading through all of this carefully with me. I'm rapidly getting to where it would be more practical for me to buy a new machine and software and spend the 40-50 hours it will take for me to reinstall and reconfigure everything! My business is literally on thin ice as I put the time into this thing. I'm extremely grateful for your help! I'm just praying this doesn't degrade into a situation where my attempts at fixing it make things worse or take so much time that I end up out of business.

Nero tech support should be getting to this thread any moment now. HOPEFULLY, their tech, Juan, and you, will think through each other's comments and between the two of you I'll have a coherent and efficient game plan.

Please bear with me, IMM. I much prefer to wait for the Nero tech to read all this and give me his input before I do anything more.

THANK YOU AGAIN!!!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Nero tech support just responded. Sure enough, the tech tells me the link that I sent him to this thread isn't working. That's odd. I tested it in the email message I sent him "after" I sent him the email, and it was fine. Go figure. (Maybe he's using AOL.)

He pointed out that DirectCD (or any multiple burning software programs) can cause trouble. He suggested I rename (disable) the following drivers:

CDRALVSD.VXD	To:	CDRALVSD.VX_
ACBHLPR.VXD ACBHLPR.VX_
CDUDFRW.VXD CDUDFRW.VX_
CDR4VSD.VXD CDR4VSD.VX_
CDUDF.VXD CDUDF.VX_
CDRPWD.VXD CDRPWD.VX_

He also suggested I go to the newest version of Nero. The one I have installed has apparently recently been updated.

He did offer to send me two more diagnostic files if those two steps doesn't do the trick.

Why do I feel like I've put in a dozen hours -- no, more like a couple dozen hours -- and gave him the most thorough information one could want to have for nailing down an issue, and I got a "two-minute fix" session?

Is disabling those files going to leave me with a disabled program still installed??? Will a full uninstall of that program(s) then give me uninstall problems and hang? What do those files pertain to?

I sent him a reply telling him I want to uninstall Easy CD Creator (he didn't know I have it since he didn't make it to this thread), explaining that I'm told doing so can still leave other issues. (I also asked if upgrading should entail an uninstall and a cleaning of the registry first.)

I hope he reads this thread! I suggested that he copy and paste the link into his browser if it's not working in his email program. (Hey, I can offer him tech support if it seems he needs it, right?)

Whaddaya think, Tech Support Guys?

(And here I am, a fully paid-up retail Nero customer, getting totally different advice from their tech as from the very generous people on this forum who are putting in far more time and effort. Who wants to shoot the dice with me on what to try to do now?)

Personally, if I may say so, it seems to me that I should have Nero (or Roxio?) walk me through a detailed uninstall of Easy CD Creator and DirectCD, and then any other cleanup that may be needed from that point (I suspect there will be a cleanup needed based on what Rollin' Rog said), then have Nero tell me if the Plextor software is acceptable to leave, and then tell me if it's advisable to wipe the current Nero before the upgrade. If a new diagnostic reading or two is advisable between these steps, fine.

I'm not even vaguely an expert in this area, but that seems logical to me based on my many years of troubleshooting and what I've gathered from the generous posts by the two of you.

It seems like a logical "first step". Then we can go from there.

IMM, I think maybe you might be getting a bit more extensive than I need, and I'm concerned about opening a Pandora's Box. All I want to do is get Nero to stop freezing intermittently on launch. (If I get Word to stop misbehaving, that will be a bonus, but is not that important.) Believe me, I don't mean to imply I'm not extremely grateful, or that I question your expertise at all. Quite the contrary. I'm just being cautious with my time and my system since we're dealing with files that can disable my system, or part of it, and we might have to then restore and revisit things.

Please remember that I have a business system here, and a business that relies on it for dear life. I've had the experience of seeing a troubleshooting project spiral into months of getting nothing else done. It set my business back literally years due to the timing. I would have been far better off buying a new system at the beginning but, of course, you always think the fix is just one more step away. Because it's a business system, to wipe the hard drive and restore everything takes a good two solid weeks of doing nothing else but the restructuring of everything.

My system runs like a top except that Nero freezes (and Word hiccups.) "If it ain't broke...". Sure, I'm always one to do a bit of sure-footed cleanup and improvement, and would love to. I just don't get the feeling that "sure-footed" or even "safe" applies yet.

I realize the nature of the problem doesn't lend itself to an obvious, simple fix. I'm just concerned it also invites land mines.

IMM, I'm confident enough that if you want to reassure me at this point (if I haven't lost you yet), then I'm ready to proceed forward.

It would also be nice to have Nero more on top of this!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

The files he references are Adaptec stuff (eg. DirectCD). An uninstall from Add/Remove is preferable to a rename here - but there is something tho watch out for. These programs should NOT be running when you do the uninstall. It's probably best to uncheck them using msconfig - then reboot - but some people just CAD and end task.
At any rate use CAD to check that no DirectCD or ECDC is running before you use add/remove from Control Panel. After removing the Adaptec stuff - look around for those files he mentioned and if they still exist, then rename them (most of them should be removed by the uninstall).

Do the uninstall first - then we'll get back to the ASPI layer. I think it would be best to put the windows one in before the Nero update.

Wiping Nero before the upgrade may not be advisable - depending on what you have for a version. The updates which are downloadable are free demo versions which will upgrade existing stuff - but act as a Demo if a valid version of Nero isn't found. If you remove Nero - then reinstall from the CD that came with the drive BEFORE you use the upgrade.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM, like I said before, you are the BEST!!! Thanks so very much for bearing with me. I'm sure you appreciate my perspective.

Okay, step by step here, by the book here...

Sure enough, yeah, of the six files he told me to disable, four of them are listed on Nero's site under drivers installed by Adaptec that can cause problems.

I'm going to uninstall Easy CD Creator now (unchecking in Startup and rebooting first). Then I'll see what's left to disable and will let you know.

Nero tech support in California told me a month ago, when I began to troubleshoot this, that I should uninstall my current version and clean the registry (and perhaps delete specific files -- I'll have to see if I still have the instructions they have me) before I download and install the newer version. (I'm not sure how I handled the serial number ID issue -- I'll check into it). I suppose the same applies now, but I'll call California tech support and ask them. However, I'll wait on addressing an uninstall or upgrade/install until you get to the ASPI layer issue with me. For now, I'll just let you know what Nero Calif tells me.

I have no idea what you mean when you say "If you remove Nero - then reinstall from the CD that came with the drive BEFORE you use the upgrade." Please clarify that for me. Again, the CD that came with the drive only installed the Plextor basic software, which I think I'd like to keep, and Easy CD Creator Basic 5, which was bundled with it. Nero came entirely separately, later, strictly by my purchasing off the Nero web site and downloading it.

THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM,

This isn't so easy to figure out here. I just looked at the Plextor site that Rollin' Rog had pointed out earlier for instructions on how to remove Easy CD Creator and it's confusing me:

www.plextor.com/english/supp...ezcd_Basic.html

If I follow this guide, I'll have to download the ASPI 4.71 file from the Adaptec site, since it does not appear on my Plextor installation CD. What kind of filename is ASPI 4.71 anyway? Oh, it's not a filename at all. So how do I know if it's on my Plextor CD or not? Well, here's a screen shot of all the ASPI files on my Plextor CD:

www.silver100.com/plextorcdaspi.gif

If I check the file version on the first three files listed (the exe files), it's version 1.02 (014), 1.02 (014), and 1.08 (029), respectively -- and they all say ADAPTEC!

Why am I reluctant to be downloading ASPI files from the Adaptec site at this point? It seems that's just what I DON'T want to be doing. Am I missing something here?

I suppose this is what you were alluding to in saying to install off the Plextor installation CD... or were you also/instead referring to the entire Plextor software package, too?

So, I'm stumped again. To even get started here, which set of procedures should I follow to uninstall Easy CD Creator?

I'll check with Plextor and Nero tech support while you hopefully get a chance to review the above links and get back to me.

THANKS AGAIN!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I think we're getting somewhere. For the benefit of anyone who comes up on this situation in the future, let me try to spell out what I've learned -- and what I'm still looking at for those trying to help me here.

Plextor tech support tells me that when running W98 you want to have the 4.60 ASPI layer, not the 4.71 layer. We checked and I had 4.60 (1017) so they told me to go to 4.60 (1021), which I did by using their CD since that's what was on it. (Running the aspiinst.exe file gives you 1017. Then you have to reboot, and then run aspi32.exe to have it bump that up to 1021.) It seems to me that that covers the ASPI layer issue, assuming they're right that I want to stay at 4.60 and assuming my upcoming uninstalls of burner software don't change it (in which case I'll just put it back, as they said to do). I don't know "for sure" if this covers the whole ASPI layer issue, but it seems to me it might. Note that they say to install the desired ASPI layer after uninstalling the given burning software. They also point out that Nero uses it's own, different ASPI, but they say that shouldn't be an issue.)

Now, I have five different places where I've found lists of what to remove or disable after uninstalling burning software if they're still left. The five sources I have are:

1. Plextor's web site for problem drivers that Adaptec can leave:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/139.htm#o139

2. Plextor's web site for removing EZCD 4 (their tech told me he's taken this identical list of drivers off an old Roxio support page for removing EZCD 5, too):

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/faqs/faq_sw.html#ezcd4.x (see item 2)

3. Plextor's web site for removing EZCD Basic:

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/faqs/How_To/Uninstall_Install_ezcd_Basic.html

4. Plextor's tech support sent me an email for how to remove "all" burning software (NOTE: a second tech at Plextor, who sounded much more savvy, took exception to some items in this list and said he would NOT remove the drives that only appear here and don't appear on the other lists - the three very questionable files being: aspienum.vxd, winaspi.dll, and wnaspi32.dll):

http://www.silver100.com/plextorwipeinstr.txt

5. Email from Nero tech support in Germany, who simply said to disable the given files and didn't mention anything else, such as uninstalling software.

http://www.silver100.com/neroemail.txt

CHART OF THE ABOVE: Tomake this easier for us to manage, I created a chart that lists all the suggested files to disable, and who/where we have a recommendation to disable them. That's at:

http://www.silver100.com/burnercleanup.txt

Notice that in the Plextor instructions for removing EZCD, they make it clear that you should first do the uninstall in Add/Remove, then WITHOUT REBOOTING go in and disable any remaining suspect files, then clean the registry, and remove unwanted folders. THEN you're to do a reboot. Their tech (the "savvy" one) pointed this out to me as well. He was very clear about this.

The more savvy Plextor tech also suggested that, although he doesn't see the Plextor Manager software that came with the drive posing any problems, it wouldn't hurt to remove it. He says that with Nero on the system, I really don't need it, but if I want to reinstall it, he'd do that last.

And just to add one more interesting dimension to things, I once was lucky enough to be put in touch with a senior engineer at Plextor who is not normally accessible (he's not in tech support but way behind the scenes). I ran this all past him and he emailed me a "utility" that he uses for wiping everything that has to do with Nero before doing a reinstall. He says he's never had a problem with Nero that this little baby didn't fix right away.

I didnt get a chance to talk to Nero tech support in California again today. I want to ask them about the formal steps of doing a complete uninstall and registry cleanup before the upgrade. I may have old notes on that around here from the previous version I did this with that they gave me instructions on.

I'm thinking I should do things in the following order:

1. Uncheck anything related to burning software in MSCONFIG and reboot (or, as one tech suggested, turn off Startup totally and then reboot).

2. Uninstall EZCD (which Plextor says will also remove DirectCD).

3. Disable all the remaining suspect files (uh, once I decide where to draw the line, that is), clean the registry, and remove any unwanted remaining folders.

4. Reboot.

5. Uninstall Plextor Manager.

6. Disable any remaining... ??? and clean the registry and folders.

7. Reboot.

8. Uninstall Nero (cleanly with Nero tech support instructions and/or the utility the Plextor engineer just emailed to me).

9. Disable any remaining... ??? and clean the registry and folders.

10. Reboot.

11. Install the newest version of Nero.

MAYBE BETTER APPROACH: It seems it might be better to remove all the burning programs in one step (see the articles from Plextor, above). I'll have to decide.

After each reboot, Ill check the ASPI layer with aspichk.exe and if it changed from 4.60 (1021) I'll reinstall it.

By the way, IMM, I haven't even looked at the list of suspect files you suggested I look at yet. Let me do that right now... okay... well, let's see. Here's what on your list that's not shown in the chart I assembled (I'm ignoring those that are not anywhere on my system, as I listed earlier):

- all five of the *.mpd files
- scsidll.dll

As I said, I'm not sure how far to go with what's in my chart.

To make it easier to comment, here are the files in my chart:

1 acbhlpr.vxd
2 apix.vxd
3 aspienum.vxd
4 cd_read.vxd
5 cdr4dll.dll
6 cdr4vsd.sys
7 cdr4vsd.vxd
8 cdral.dll
9 cdralvsd.vxd
10 cdrpwd.vxd
11 cdrtc.dll
12 cdudf.vxd
13 cdudfrw.vxd
14 iomega.vxd
15 scsi1hlp.vxd
16 winaspi.dll
17 wnaspi32.dll

I realize some will disappear on the uninstalls, yet I need to first decide what to disable after each program is uninstalled since I have to disable them before I do a reboot.

I don't have an Iomega Zip drive any longer, so I guess that should go (14).

I'm not sure about some others, though.

Also, Nero's web site repeatedly mentions downloading WNASPI32.DLL under a number of upgrading conditions which may not apply to me:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/c1004602999110.html#c1004602999110

Well, I'm not done yet, but I'm seeing daylight and I couldn't have gotten this far without your help, Rollin' Rog and IMM!

Any comments at this point (like on where to draw the line on what to disable after the uninstalls, or what sequence to follow)?

Am I missing anything else that I should be considering?

THANKS AGAIN!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Note that I just edited my preceding post. Spelled out ASPI considerations a bit more at beginning and end, and inserted missing item in the list of "five" sources of files to disable.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Note that I just edited two posts up, message # 19 in the thread. Inserted an important step "1" in the to-do list, and maybe a better approach right after the list.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

BETTER PROCEDURAL PLAN:

1. Turn off burning related items or entire Startup in MSCONFIG and reboot.

2. Add/Remove to uninstall all burning software.

3. Without rebooting, disable the files I decide to disable, clean the registry and remove folders per Plextor's articles, and then, hey, run the Nero cleaning utility Plextor's engineer sent me.

4. Reboot.

5. Check the ASPI layer and install the one I decide to go with if it's not there.

6. Install the newest version of Nero.

Man, that should be easy enough.

The three remaining decisions are:

A. What to disable and what not to, per my previous long post.

B. Which version of the ASPI layer I want, 4.60 or 4.71.

C. Whether Nero's WNASPI32.DLL upgrade is advisable.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

_A. What to disable and what not to, per my previous long post._
Depends on what stays and what goes. I've indicated the files which are base aspi. Get rid of everything which is associated with software you're removing.

_B. Which version of the ASPI layer I want, 4.60 or 4.71_
You seem to wish to keep the Plextor software - so you will be wanting the Adaptec aspi layer (rather than the windows one) in some form. Don't know that I would have made this choice myself - but you can use the 4.71.2 (4.6 would be necessary for win95).
http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/su...key=Windows+ASPI+Package#Microsoft Windows 98
If you find that you'd like a particular version of it such as 1021, then email me - it can be done (I move mine around routinely). The aspi32.exe file on your plex cd will have a layer (I've forgotten which version it contains).

One thing to watch out for is that if you remove all the Adaptec files - their aspi install software will refuse to work - there are ways around this (manually placing the files will work or using something like aspime)

_C. Whether Nero's WNASPI32.DLL upgrade is advisable._
You'll find that your download link references the same file as the wnaspi32 one in http://www.ahead.de/en/content/c1023694368810.html and that it's for NT/2000/XP so avoid it.

I found the comments on renaming interesting - I've always recommended renaming for people on the boards to try and be on the safe side - but when I do it - I always delete


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Some day I've got to learn to write -- and talk -- more succinctly... with more brevity. Otherwise, my message gets lost in the crowd.

What stays and what goes: I'm removing the only three CD burning programs on the system - EZCD, Plextor Manager, and Nero. I plan to only put back Nero (I know I mentioned keeping Plextor Manager but later related that the Plextor tech said I don't need it. I agree.)

What does "base ASPI" mean? I'm aware of four files that the ASPI installers I've now got access to will (did) readily install:

WNASPI32.DLL
WINASPI.DLL
APIX.VXD
ASPIENUM.VXD

Oh, cool! I just noticed that those are four of the main files on my chart that were so "iffy"! Well, now they're "off" the chart! I just installed the right ones (4.60 (1021)), and can do so again at any time, for any version of ASPI I decide. AWESOME! The chart is helping me big-time in narrowing down what to disable and not.

Since I'm going to just stay with Nero and not reinstall the Plextor Manager, does that mean you'd go with ASPI 4.71? Plextor's "apparently pretty savvy" tech, who was cool enough to suggest I don't need their software if I have Nero, said I should be staying with 4.60 even if I just use Nero simply because W98 likes 4.60 a LOT more than it likes 4.71. BTW, lost in the crowd included that I now have ready access to any version I want: 4.60 (1021), which I have the "installation files" for (they're on the Plextor CD and Plextor emailed me the same things with a more recent file date) and which is now on my system, or 4.71, which I can get off the Adaptec site. The former gives me the four ASPI files I listed above. I assume the latter would do the same.

When you caution me about removing all the Adaptec files, which are you referring to: all the EZCD related files by uninstalling it... or getting too far carried away with my chart... or something more, such as your fuller list, perhaps? To just look at whether a file is Adaptec or not doesn't give me much of a sense of assurance since it seems to me a lot of stuff that says Adaptec needs to be there for basic functionality (Windows?) and that some of those Adaptec files have no connection to EZCD or Direct CD etc.

Anyway, I just whittled my "chart" down to only THREE questionable files! The rest fit one of the following criteria:

- obviously unwanted (it's a "Roxio" file and obviously EZCD)
- I install(ed) it fresh with ASPI installer (the four key files)
- it's not on my system anyway

The ones that say Roxio are mostly in most columns anyway -- lots of votes to remove them.

The three remaining "questionable" files are:

acbhlpr.vxd ("Adaptec's Callback Helper for Windows 9x")
iomega.vxd ("Iomega Universal DASD VSD")
scsi1hlp.vxd ("Microsoft")

I think I'm just about there. Just have to decide about those three.

I have no idea what that first file does -- here's a classic case of my wondering if it's something Windows might want, and my not wanting to remove it just because it's Adaptec. (Heck, the four key ASPI files making up 4.60 that Plextor just hooked me up with all say Adaptec!)

The second one, well, I guess it was left over from my Zip drive and should definitely go, huh?

The third one seems innocuous enough either way. Not likely to cause problems, not integrated with anything else Im working with, and easy enough to remove later.

THATS IT! Then Im ready to tackle the process.

If you care to see my new chart, with the disposition of each file, it's at:

http://www.silver100.com/burnercleanuplist.txt


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

acbhlpr.vxd - remove it along with cdr4vsd.vxd and cdralvsd.vxd if they are still present.
iomega.vxd - remove it
scsi1hlp.vxd - your call - I've run Nero both ways and not had any problems

As I indicated earlier - if they are all gone then I'd perhaps put the original windows aspi layer in before the nero install and let it do what it wants - but I've run Nero both ways and for compatibility with other aspi based programs you may prefer 4.71a

Let's hope the registry comes cleand and doesn't contain any references to the files which are deleted.

One thing I might be inclined to do is boot SAFE mode and see that there aren't any iomega or scsi card related entries hiding in Device Manager. (did I mention that earlier?)


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Regarding Safe Mode, what you mentioned earlier was to look for duplicate entries of the drives. Looking for Iomega and SCSI card entries sounds sensible, too.

A backup of the Registry sounds really sensible, too, now that you mention it. For that matter, it's funny you mentioned the idea of "renaming" the undesired files, because I was thinking of putting them in an innocuous folder -- actually, I was thinking of putting them on a CD off of the system -- with a clear list of what went where, just "in case". 

acbhlpr.vxd - Yeah, I found one coherent reference to with a Google search and it was quite explicit about deleting it:
_________________________________

http://www.daemon-tools.net/newz1200.htm

"We get a lot of reports of problems with DAEMON Tools lately - and they have all one thing in common:
All people reporting these problems have or had Adaptec Easy CD installed. This burning program is well known to cause a lot of trouble because it is incompatible with most other burning programs.
So if you want to use DAEMON Tools DO NOT USE Easy CD!!!
The big problem with Easy CD is that uninstalling this program DOES NOT HELP 'cause it doesn't deinstall it's own drivers. They remain on your system and are loaded each time you start your PC. I think this circumstance should be reason enough to stay away from this soft - not to talk about Easy CD being the worst burning prog anyway.
If you already installed it and want to get rid of it make sure to delete or rename the following files in your Windows\System directory AFTER running Easy CD deinstallation:
In Win 9x/ME: acbhlpr.vxd, cdr4vsd.vxd and cdralvsd.vxd
In Win 2000: cdr4_2k.sys, cdr4vsd.sys and cdralw2k.sys
ATTENTION: You will have to remove the registry settings for the mentioned files in Windows 2000 too. Just renaming/deleting the files doesn't help.
I'll soon post a little utility completely removing all Easy CD files from your system. Until then deleting/renaming the mentioned files/registry settings will do."
_________________________________

I didn't find the utility he mentioned, though.

His comments hopefully indicate I should be okay with W98. I think doing what the Plextor instruction pages say and removing all references to EZCD, Adaptec and Roxio (and Oak, Nero, and Plextor) in the two main Registry keys they say to clean out might cover it, too... I hope.

Now, would you believe I have another question?

Sure you would!

It's been suggested that I either turn off the MSCONFIG Startup group OR disable all burner references in it, then reboot, before I do any uninstalls, deleting of burner files, registry cleaning, etc.

Which of those two would you do? Turn off the whole group or just the items related to burners? (I know there are two in there now off the top of my head: DirectCD and Plextor. There may be more). Anything I'm not sure about, Ill turn off, too. Should I do the selective method and leave on what I know is basic stuff, or turn it all off?


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

disable all burner references in it will do. If there is an option within the program itself not to autostart, then use that.
Important thing to do is check your running tasks and see that they aren't running when u uninstall. (some programs are better at handling it than others - old DirectCD isn't good at it)


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM,

I really want to thank you for all the help and bearing with my lengthy posts.

I did the wipe and reinstall and so far it seems to have gone well. I guess I won't know until I see whether I get any more freezes on launching Nero. Having been intermittent, only time will tell.

An interesting thing turned up during the cleaning process. When I did the uninstall of Plextor Manager, it told me it was unable to remove two entries from the Registry -- Plxtask and Plxstart -- from:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

When I looked in the Registry, though, they didn't exist there.

Where they DID exist, along with an Adaptec Easy CD Creator entry, were under a separate folder under ...\CurrentVersion that was named:

Run-

Yeah, instead of "Run", it was another folder right below the "Run" folder, named "Run-".

The only three entries in it were the Adaptec entry and the two Plextor entries. Naturally, I deleted the folder altogether.

During the cleaning process, I deleted all the files on my chart except the four main ASPI files and scsi1hlp.vxd. I figure that if I still have problems, that one file will be the next thing to delete.

I also noticed that Add/Remove has something in it called "ASAPI Update". A Google search indicates ASAPI is used for CD burning, mainly for CD Wizard (or Wizary?). Nero's site mentions it (a Search on the Nero site didn't turn it up, but using the Google toolbar to search the Nero site turned up four references to it). Nero says it's "a driver to release IDE devices via the ASPI interface" and could cause a problem of adding a 2-second pause between tracks when burning, and says to delete the following files from Windows\System\IOSubsys:

ASAPI.VXD
REGTAPE.VXD
DRVW*.VXD

Here's where it discusses it:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/139.htm

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/336.htm

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/406.htm

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/728.htm

They also give instructions on how to manually set the desired pause between tracks (which I assume will override ASAPI).

I did Google searches on the remaining files you mentioned.

aic78xx.mpd - Is for the 7800 Family software that came with the Adaptec SCSI card that I long ago removed from the computer. I'm going to delete that as soon as I finish this post.

asc.mpd - Didn't turn up anything about it except how to extract it from the Windows CD.

ppa3.mpd - Seems to be related to Iomega but also to Norton.

scsidll.dll - Same as above.

sparrow.mpd - Found a comment on Nikon saying installing Zip drives often updates it to a version that's not compatible with Nikon SCSI scanners, and to replace it, along with the four main ASPI files, from the original Windows CD.

In going through Add/Remove, I noticed that I have a backup program, BackUp MyPC, from Stomp (formerly from Veritas). I don't know if this qualifies as a burning program I may need to double-check to make sure it didn't need anything I deleted as listed in my chart.

Other programs listed, which I presume are fine and are not burning programs at all, are Quick Time and RealPlayer Basic.

Sentinel System Driver was in Add/Remove, too. I have no idea how it got there or what it does. I'm sure you know its function.

If I need, I'll look further into those items.

Oh, and one last thing. I learned the hard way that in using the new Nero CleanTool.exe, which it seems Nero TS is now giving to end users rather than providing them with instructions on how to manually do a clean uninstall  and which they sent to me with no instructions at all  it turns out you MUST run it BEFORE you go into Add/Remove to do an uninstall. If it doesnt see the necessary files or folders on your hard drive, you cant run it. (Im told through the grapevine from an inside source that chooses to remain anonymous that it will also wipe all traces of Roxio/Easy CD off the system, too, but I had already done the Add/Remove uninstall and didnt see it come up as an option, which may be just because it didnt detect it adequately. In fact, I had also done an Add/Remove uninstall of Nero beforehand, and at first it didnt give me any options to clean anything, but the manual button suggested that directing it to a folder such as Ahead in the Program Files folder would let you choose programs to be cleaned, and I had not yet deleted that folder  and thank goodness the Add/Remove uninstall hadnt, either  so I was able to select Nero that way. It listed about a dozen things that it was going to clean once I did that, mostly all clearly related to Nero.)

THANKS AGAIN, SO VERY MUCH, FOR ALL YOUR HELP, IMM!!!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

And THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH to you, too, Rollin' Rog!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Oh, one more thing on following those cleaning instructions and using the Nero CleanTool utility.

I was simultaneously following the instructions from Plextor on how to remove Easy CD Creator and all other burning software, and those instructions emphatically say that after you remove them in Add/Remove you should NOT reboot until you continue through the steps of deleting the listed files, folder, and Registry entries. Then you should reboot and then reinstall your ASPI.

Well, I followed those instructions but in the middle of them, after doing Add/Remove but before deleting the leftover files, folders, and Registry entries, I ran CleanTool. That was a big mistake not only because CleanTool needs to detect the programs or folders to allow you to do a cleaning, but also because when CleanTool finishes running it seems to force you into an immediate Reboot -- you get a message essentially saying "You must reboot now" and button saying "Okay". Since the other sets of instructions clearly told me NOT to reboot at that point, I had to End Task on the CleanTool reboot prompt to get rid of it.

It seems the right way to do this is to use CleanTool first and do the reboot it wants you to do when it's done, then go through Add/Remove and then without rebooting remove the indicated files, folders and registry entries if any are left (not that I expect things to be left there, but some might), and then reboot again.

Also, it seems it's advisable to then reinstall your ASPI layer as those instructions say to do, even if it seems to be okay, because you removed an Adaptec folder from the Registry when you followed the instructions and the use of the ASPI installation "or" the running of ASPICHK.EXE will put in a Registry folder that seems to only accommodate the CHK feature of ASPI. Also, if you followed the most aggressive list of instructions, you removed the ASPI layer itself during the cleaning process, too, and this will put it back.

Everything I read and everything I was told made clear that to reinstall ASPI 4.60 (1021) you need to do it in two separate steps:

First run ASPIINST.EXE and then REBOOT!

Then, run ASPI32.EXE and REBOOT again.

The first step gives you ASPI 4.60 (1017), and the second one bumps it up to 4.60 (1021).


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

You can put Run- back in. That's where things are stored when they are unchecked in msconfig. Don't put the entries back in for adaptec etc. tho'.

The key will look like HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run-

 It's not that serious and if you've unchecked an item in msconfig - a lot of uninstall programs won't find the moved entry. There are utilities for handling this but I just do it manually.

There are a dozen ways to put in an aspi layer (I'll often do it manually) - but you can fool it into what ever you like. 1021 seems to be a popular choice - before that 1008 had a long run.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

And here I was so proud of myself for how I handled things. 

I'm gonna bet that that Run- folder is not normally there and Windows creates it if it needs to when you uncheck an item in MSCONFIG. Is that the case, do you think, or should I create it now even though the only things that were in there are now history anyway? (If I should recreate it, should I put a "Default" entry in there or will that be automatic?)

I can uncheck something and see if it gets created, but after all this I'd rather ask your advice before I play around with it.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I tried it. (Backed up the Registry first, of course.)

It does. It creates it when something's unchecked, and deletes it when everything gets checked again.

(Well, it creates it when something that's in the Run folder gets unchecked, that is. I just learned that some Startup items are elsewhere. But I'll bet you already knew that. )


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I just edited message #30, paragraph 4, that starts with "It seems the right way to do this is..."

I corrected and clarified it a bit.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Joe it looks like all is resolved and I will mark the thread as such unless there are continuing problems closely connected to the topic.

You're welcome for my minimal assistance and you can certainly see why I was happy to see IMM take an interest and go confidently where I would be tentative at best.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Rollin' Rog,

Yes, I'd say the issue can be marked closed. I'm extremely grateful to IMM and you for all the patient and thorough support. I hope my extensive descriptions through to the end may help the two of you and others with similar issues in the future. (Feel free to contact me for the encapsulated bottom lines at any time if need be and if you think I can help, now that I've been through it so extensively.)

And don't for a moment discount the contribution you made to my ability to handle this intelligently. Your input was invaluable! I couldn't have done it without you!

Thanks again to both of you!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

The problem is still there! Same behavior as before: Nero is still freezing intermittently on launch at "Scanning SCSI/IDE bus" (now the newest version of Nero -- as did the two before it).


Steps I'm currently trying (perhaps in stages):

- disabling SCSI1HLP.VXD and aic78xx.mpd (didn't get around to latter one before now)

- again running Nero's CleanTool, this time rebooting when it asks

- going to ASPI 4.71

- reinstalling Nero 5.5.10.0 again


Procedure I already tried that didn't work:

- disabled DirectCD and Plextor in MSCONFIG and rebooted

- uninstalled all burners in Add/Remove (Easy CD, Plextor, Nero)

- ran Nero's CleanTool

- removed all files, folders and registry entries suggested by all sources except the two files above, and the four main ASPI files (and some of the ones pointed out by IMM); all the following files were either removed by the uninstall, CleanTool, or manually:

acbhlpr.vxd
cd_read.vxd
cdr4dll.dll
cdr4vsd.sys
cdr4vsd.vxd
cdral.dll
cdralvsd.vxd
cdrpwd.vxd
cdrtc.dll
cdudf.vxd
cdudfrw.vxd
iomega.vxd

- rebooted

- reinstalled ASPI layer with reboots after each step

- reinstalled Nero (went to 5.5.10.0) and rebooted

Nero went back to same behavior -- burns and copies like a champ, but intermittently freezes on launch at the same place.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you go to the Properties > Settings page on the Device Manager for the burner, is there a DMA option that is enabled? If so, does unchecking stop this freeze from happening?

Could be an IDE controller issue, but once again IMM is your best support for this.


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## pyritechips (Jun 3, 2002)

I know it's too late into the thread to make a difference but I had the exact same hangup with Nero scanning the IDE/SCSI. It never went away until i uninstalled it and installed it clean, Then it worked fine after that.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Rollin' Rog, Nero's support page on troubleshooting hanging on launch has many items to try, one of which is disabling DMA for the CD drive in Device Manager. I saw it a while ago but never considered it a viable option -- to run this baby without DMA is not even the least bit practical. Plextor's tech support and Nero's Calif tech support both agreed that it would be pointless to try to run that way.

It's enabled and always has been. I need to be able to keep it. If you're suggesting I try disabling it just as a troubleshooting step, I guess I could try that, but I know from experience it won't run right without it. The drive actually vibrates and groans like it was about to wobble out of the housing. (It once got turned off by accident -- installing SoundBlaster Live! actually stole it away.)

Jim (if you don't mind, I'll just call you Jim. ), I know this thread is way to long to read in depth. Uninstalling and reinstalling Nero is something I've done a few times already, even upgrading twice in the process, to no avail. But thanks!

Well, a quick Google search just turned up something interesting. It seems Nero has two ASPI files designed for use with W98:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/c1023694368810.html

See NEASPIEN.EXE on that page.

The download gives you two files: NeroApix.vxd and wnaspi32.dll

The readme file says to copy wnaspi32.dll to the folder where Nero is installed, and then it says "Under W95/98" you should also copy the NeroApix.vxd file to the Windows\System\IOSubsys folder, and then reboot.

Depending where else you look on Nero's site, they also say to use Adaptec's aspichk.exe utility to check the ASPI files, and on a different page it says that a scanner may have overwritten the ASPI files (I have a simple HP scanner that's been on the system about two years) in which case they say that if you have a SCSI hostadapter you should upgrade to Adaptec's new ASPI files and, if you don't have one, you should go back to the original Windows 95 ASPI files:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/784.htm

On another page, though, that's specific to ASPI, it says you can "either update the Adaptec WinASPI drivers OR copy the original Windows 95/98 ASPI":

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/591.htm

Unless Nero's tech support in Germany tells me otherwise, I'm going to assume that either ASPI 4.60 or 4.71 should be fine with my W98 system. For now, I still have 4.60.

Another interesting Nero troubleshooting site with links is:

http://www.nero.com/en/content/helptool/152.htm#o152

I see things on links off that page that suggest that with my Intel 82371AB on the mother board, that has to show up in Device Manger under Hard Disk Controller and if your CD drive is on a secondary IDE port as the only device you should check in Device Manager to make sure there are no conflicts and it's working properly. Everything checks out fine. (Elsewhere, they suggest that having the CD drive on the same cable as the HD can cause detection problems with the BIOS set to Auto, but they're on two separate cables.) The facts that Nero has no problem seeing the CD drive -- except on my intermittent launch freezes -- and that once Nero launches it never has any problem burning, tell me this is not where I need to be looking anyway.

Well, here are the steps I just took

- disabled Scsi1hlp.vxd and Aic78xx.mpd

- ran Nero's CleanTool to wipe Nero (turns out it doesn't force a reboot, just says you need to do one)

- reinstalled Nero

- downloaded and installed Nero's two extra ASPI files for W98 (NEASPIEN.EXE is the link on the site, but NEROASPIEN.EXE is the file that was downloaded, which extracts to the two files indicated plus the readme -- note that the EN at the end of the filenames just stands for English)

- rebooted after each of the above steps

Adaptecs aspichk.exe is showing the same ASPI 4.60 (1021) still fine on the system.

Nero just burned an audio CD and copied an audio CD just fine. Of course, it always was burning and reading fine... when it launches.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, Nero's InfoTool.exe utility, which their tech in Germany asked me to run a week ago so I could send him the text file, and which I ran for him last week and also a few hours ago, does not like those two Nero ASPI files I just added in there. It keeps freezing the system when I try to run it. I restored scsi1hlp.vxd just to test it and that wasn't it -- IntoTool still freezes. I then got rid of the two added Nero ASPI files and InfoTool ran okay.

I guess it's possible that the two Nero ASPI files need ASPI 4.71 and not my current ASPI 4.60 (1021). I'll test that later. Or, maybe IMM was right in saying this is only for later versions of Windows and not W98. I assumed perhaps he was referring to a different file when he said that since the Nero readme that came with does say how to install it for Win 95/98. Wouldn't you know that the Nero download site has text missing where it's supposed to say the Windows versions it's for:

===============
http://www.nero.com/en/content/c1023694368810.html

See NEASPIEN.EXE on that page. 
===============

Now that I look, though, that same file he referred to is one of the two it says in the NEASPIEN.EXE readme file to install "for W95/98": wnaspi32.dll

Well, either it will work with ASPI 4.71, or the freeze on launch problem was just the scsi1hlp.vxd file all along... I hope. I seem to be running low on options here.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Has it ever frozen on startup with the scsi1hlp.vxd renamed?

By the way, I'm not sure if this has been covered, but there are three other files in that iosusbsys folder which I would recommend renaming as well. They are associated with the MS TapeBackup tool and noone who doesn't use a tape backup drive needs them. They have a long history of causing slow bootups, freezes, and conflicts with other software.

They are:

drvwq117.vxd
Drvwppqt.vxd
Drvwcdb.vxd


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Been away for a while - sorry to see things aren't going smooth.
Shoot me an email and tell me how large an attachment your mailbox will stand (some stuff I'd like to send you).
Can you post your motherboard make and model and a list of your drive models (and where (ie pri master etc.) they are attached?

Reading the things you've tried on page2 has me wondering - did you reinstall directcd and plextor - or is Nero still the only thing there?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

RR, I've been pondering the same thing. I haven't seen Nero freeze right after a reboot ever, not that I reboot often enough to call that conclusive with an intermittent problem. I want to also point out that at one point when the subsequent system shutdown hung (this ALWAYS happens after a Nero launch freezes), Ctrl-Alt-Del popped up a window saying "DDE Serve Window" not responding. I'm just suspicious about a connection with Word, for some odd reason -- it seems Nero only freezes after I've had Word open (and I again point out that Word has been intermittently misbehaving, as described early in this thread). I have no idea if it's even possible for there to be a connection, I'm just mentioning it.

I haven't had scsi1hlp.vxd disabled long enough to tell if that has fixed the problem yet. I only finally disabled it yesterday.

Those three dvrw*.vxd files you mentioned were mentioned by me earlier with regard to a Nero web site article about them. (See the filenames at the four links I posted in message #28 of this thread. Nero's site doesn't seem to mention them anywhere else, and only discusses the 2-second pause issue.) I have not disabled them as yet.

Ironically, while I don't have a tape backup device now, I'm very anxious to get one ASAP.

IMM, my mailbox will handle 15 MB of attachments. I'll send you my email address. My motherboard is an ABIT BE-6. I'm quite sure I updated the Intel Chipset firmware/whatever about six months ago when installing the Sound Blaster card, but when I look in Hard Disk Controllers in Device Manager and at the Driver tab under Properties for the Intel 82371AB, it says Microsoft -- and a Plextor tech (whose overall tech sophistication I was decidedly not impressed with, I might add) told me it should say Intel if I updated the Chipset drivers.

As to models of the drives, Device Manager says the HD is IBM-DPTA-372050, and the CD drive is Plextor CD-R PX-W4012A. Is there a different, better way to determine that? 

Going from memory alone, I have four IDE ports on the motherboard. Two are ATA/66 and two are ATA/33. I'm pretty sure I have the HD on the first of the two ATA/66 ports and the Plextor on the first of the two ATA/33 ports, with both set to Master. Is there another way for me to confirm this besides opening the machine and looking? I know that the BIOS has all IDE set to Auto. I'll do a 

Looking at the initial DOS screen on bootup, I get:

=================
Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG

Award Plug & Play BIOS Extension v1.0A

BIOS for HPT386 Host Adapter v1.07 (Ultra DMA/66 Supported)

C: (Primary Master) IBM-DPTA-372050 Ultra ATA/66 BIOS for HPT366 Host Adapter installed
=================

No, I didn't reinstall Easy CD Creator or Plextor Manager. Nero is the only thing there (besides BackUp MyPC, Quick Time, RealPlayer, WMP 9 -- I don't think the latter three do burning).

I hate to have to say this, but this issue has almost reached the point where I'll have to abandon the mission and decide to just live with the problem until I get a new computer. I can't afford to put much more time into it. I may be better off just doing a reboot before launching Nero every time I want to burn.

It would sure be nice to hear back from Nero tech support in Germany. He said I'd hear back from him "within 24 hours" four days ago. The only communication I ever got from them in Germany after tremendous effort on my part to solicit their help -- even calling out there at 3AM at one point -- was the one email in which he told me to disable some files (without telling me to first uninstall any burning programs, as he should have) and give him a copy of the InfoTool text file... and he'd reply in 24 hours! He said if disabling those files didn't fix it, he'd send me two more files so I could send him the ExtInfo diagnostic information.

I guess Nero Germany is too busy in their tech support department to do any tech support.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Disabling scsi1hlp.vxd didn't help. Still freezes. (So, I re-enabled it.)

I looked into updating the Intel Chipset drivers and it's way too complicated for me to want to venture into without serious handholding. After downloading and running their identification utility, and finding I have the 440 (there's more info if you want), I went back to their site and what it has for the 440 is complicated at best -- USB support, and other specific features. The instructions are way too compliated for me to delve into. (I have no idea what I did last time.)

I don't know that it's worth all that to me to get Nero working anyway. A reboot isn't the end of the world -- except when I'm pressed for time, which of course is most of the time.

Is it worth my trying to change the ASPI layer to 4.71, do you think?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

If I disable the drvw*.vxd files and that fixes it, what will I do when I install a tape backup drive? (You indicated it needs them, RR.)


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

BTW, Ctrl-Alt-Del when sys shutdown froze this time showed totally different things:

Hidserv
Taskmon [Not responding]
Rundll32

I guess the contents here aren't telling me anything... meaning the DDE Serve Window not responding before isn't revealing.

At another time, I got just Rundll32 not responding.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Just went to ASPI 4.71.1. (I'm sure I noticed a reference to ASPI 4.71.2 somewhere lately but this is what Adaptec's web site just gave me.)

Nero's InfoTool is running okay with ASPI 4.71.1.

I then tried going to Nero ASPI again but Nero InfoTool froze when I tried to run it, as it did before when I tried going to Nero ASPI, so I got rid of Nero ASPI again and InfoTool ran okay again.

Nero is still reading and burning okay with ASPI 4.71.1.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Are you saying in the last post that it is not freezing under the circumstances that usually cause it to freeze -- after a Word launch?

The connection to Word is certainly intriguing, and seems to indicate that something is not terminating or memory is not being released properly after it has run and been closed.

I don't know if you've tried this, but you can also try running without other startups enabled for test purposes. For example just leaving ScanRegistry and Systray enabled in msconfig.

About the tape backup, it's rare to see anyone really want to use that method of backup these days. If you get the problem resolved, the burner itself should do for most puposes. To backup the whole system, you'd probably be better off installing another drive, partitioning it and using Norton Ghost or something similar to maintain a copy of your bootable drive.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

RR,

No, I'm not saying the problem is fixed in any sense. I'm only saying that having gone to ASPI 4.71 hasn't created any new problems -- although I just found that Real Player won't launch when I run an audio file that's associated to it (out of memory error, which isn't valid). WinAmp did play it, though.

I'm also not saying I can be certain that Word has anything to do with it. It just seems consistent to me that Nero doesn't "seem" to freeze on launch until a while after the last reboot, or rather, until I've been doing other work in different applications a while. I open Outlook and Word very often and it's rare if ever that I go more than a few minutes without one of the two being open. I also open a contact management database often, GoldMine. I know for sure that recently after a reboot I only opened Outlook and Word and then a Nero launch attempt froze. I really can't be certain that opening Word has any connection since I rarely go long without having it open. It's just a hunch I have at this point.

But, no, Nero hasn't stopped freezing on launch.

I also suspect Word or something related to Word because of the misbehavior Word has been exhibiting, as described in my first few posts in this thread.

I did try disabling mostly everything that was practical and that techs felt could even remotely be the cause, to no avail.

Your comments about tape backups is enlightening. I like to have a couple generations of past backups, so maybe a swappable HD is what I'll need. I can tell you that using the CD burner is not at all practical because it takes me about three hours to burn and then verify the ten-or-more CD-Rs it takes to back up the whole system (about 12 GB), and I can never make that kind of time -- especially since it seems that it really has to be done while you're not doing anything else on the computer -- so I rarely end up doing backups, which is not at all cool on a business computer.

If this new ASPI 4.71 doesn't fix the problem, I'll try disabling the drvw*.vxd files.

Or, maybe I just found that 4.71 is already causing problems since Real Player didn't launch.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

ASPI 4.71 didn't fix it either. Nero just froze on launch again.

I want to emphasize that I have no idea if this means anything but after working a few hours, having Outlook, Word, IE6, and GoldMine running, I noticed Word hiccup for a moment and that gave me the idea to check Nero again -- and sure enough, Nero froze. It's still freezing at the same place as always: Scanning SCSI/IDE bus.

What could be causing Word to misbehave like that, and what about Word could be causing Nero to freeze on launch? Note that I've seen Nero freeze on launch after having had Outlook and Word open, having seen Word misbehave, and having then closed all apps before trying to launch Nero.

I'm now going back to ASPI 4.60.

I'm also now disabling not only the drvw*.vxd files but also the other two files Nero's site mentions with respect to ASAPI... or wait... maybe first I should uninstall ASAPI with Add/Remove?

I posted Nero's information about ASAPI and the other two files to disable along with drvw*.vxd already earlier in this thread.

By the way, the items that were left on when I turned off all "suspect" items in Startup were:

ScanRegistry
TaskMonitor
SystemTray
LoadPowerProfile
EM_EXEC (Logitech mouse)
NAV Agent (Norton Anti-Virus)
StillImageMonitor
CriticalUpdate (Windows)
LoadPowerProfile
SchedulingAgent (mstask.exe)
ScriptBlocking (Symantec re anti-virus)
Hidserv


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Re: your email - the first time I got server size of 2.5 Meg exceeded.
On smaller stuff I now get "The return address was refused." I don't what you've set for restrictions or what games your ISP plays - but if you didn't set the restrictions I'd dump the turkey.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM,

I use EarthLink. Well, not exactly. I have a web host and the email address goes to there, and then they forward things to my EarthLink account. My web host may have filters set up to block your ISP, if they've had spam or virus problems from it. I have Spaminator set at EarthLink, but I've rarely seen it block legitimate emails.

I have no idea why the size limit occurred.

I'll talk to my web host.

I'll send you an alternate email address to try, which goes directly to my EarthLink without going through my web host.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

The email appears to have gone through this time.
----
In addition to what I sent in my email - I wonder if WMP didn't install the Adaptec burning plugin while Adaptec was still on the machine.

Which version of Windows Media Player do you have?
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q190990

If you can't find the plugin in Add/Remove (under the WMP7 uninstall) then you can remove from Start > Run as follows.
for WMP7:
rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\inf\adaptec.inf,Uninstall
for the WMP9 series
rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\inf\roxio.inf,Uninstall

You might also look in the C:\WINDOWS\INF directory (the directory is a hidden one) for either adaptec.inf or roxio.inf

Here's something of a FAQ for WMP (gotta get my info somewhere ). I use 6.4 - but I'd look at what they say about content management.
------- edit - forgot the link first time round-------
http://www.nwlink.com/~zachd/pss/pss.html
------
_what will I do when I install a tape backup drive?_
The install will go lookingfor them on the windows cd or in the cab files if it needs them.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I recently updated to WMP 9 (on 1/20/03). Help-About shows version 9.00.00.2980. Add/Remove shows "Windows Media Player system update (9 Series)".

I do not understand what to do with your instructions in your second paragraph under "If you can't find the plugin..."

There's nothing in Add/Remove that starts with Adaptec or Roxio (or Easy CD or Plextor, for that matter -- I removed those, too).

C:\Windows\INF contains:

adaptec.inf (5/9/01, installed 5/29/01)

adaptec.PNF (9/23/02, installed 9/23/02)

roxio.inf (12/11/02, installed 1/20/03 -- which is when I updated to WMP 9)

Also, C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player contains a folder called Roxio (files dated 10/3/02, folder & files installed 1/20/03)

_Here's something of a FAQ for WMP_ 
Did you intend to add something here that you neglected to add?


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

_I do not understand what to do with your instructions in your second paragraph under "If you can't find the plugin..."_
My understanding is that if you use add/remove for WMP9 - you should be offered the option to add or remove components (as well as remove the whole thing) - but I'm only going on rumour.
See the link (which I forgot to put in) regarding "How do I uninstall the Adaptec plug-in"

_Did you intend to add something here that you neglected to add?_
edited the previous post to fix it.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Add/Remove on "Windows Media Player system update (9 Series)" is only giving me the option to revert to my previous installation of WMP.

I haven't the foggiest clue how to execute these alternate instructions:

If you're using Windows Media Player 9 Series: run : 
rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\inf\roxio.inf,Uninstall 
(If that doesn't work, replace %windows% with the path to your Windows directory (c:\windows or such).)


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Copy the following line - ie hilite it and right click on top of it.

rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection c:\windows\inf\roxio.inf,Uninstall 

Click on the Start button and choose Run. Paste the line you copied into the box (which says Open to the left of it). Click OK and the command should execute. (or if you're careful - you could just type it in there  )

I responded to your last email and used reply to this message w/o thinking, so it bounced - I've sent it to the other address now.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM, _DUDE_, let me help things along by clarifying my level of proficiency and lack thereof:

_Copy the following line - ie hilite it and right click on top of it. _

I super-appreciate the handholding but you can be assured it doesn't need to go to this extent! DUDE! 

All I needed to know was, well, what I suspected, which was to copy and paste the entire line into the Run command line! There's little I'm not experienced with in "moving around" and functioning with W98. (More than paid my dues over the years... you have no idea!  ) I just never "ran" a command like that before. (I really shoulda known, or should've at least asked for confirmation that that was what to do, as I did suspect it, more or less -- heck, I had even copied and pasted the first two names -- up until the first comma -- into Run and tried that, but then opted for recognizing my ignorance and went with the ever-safe "I haven't the foggiest clue..."

Sorry to put you through that.

Please bear with me for a second here, IMM. With you and now two Nero techs looking at a bunch of intense diagnostic output files I just took hours to generate through various system states, Id prefer not to change anything on the system until you and they can digest the current diagnostic files. (I can live with Nero freezing another few days.)


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

> _Originally posted by IMM:_
> *Copy the following line - ie hilite it and right click on top of it.
> 
> rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection c:\windows\inf\roxio.inf,Uninstall
> ...


I gotta ask... this was so extreme, I figure you were either teasing me (my first guess) or, well, being incredibly patient in helping me.

Well, maybe I don't need to know.



Either way, THANKS AGAIN!


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Just pulling your leg about the Run command 

My bet is on ASAPI as the worst offender (now that I know it's there  ) - but my advice re the Visual C runtimes (vcredist), the intel inf installer, WMP, and updating the HiPoint controller bios and drivers (they must be a matching set) and perhaps also the main bios on that board still stand.
I still don't know what's in which slot or much else (slot 3 shares with the HiPoint Controller on the BE6) - but with two Nero techs in on this - I guess you should get Nero mostly sorted before going to the other stuff.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

IMM,

I've got a reply from Nero TS I'm going to read over in a moment, but in the meanwhile I have a question.

I'm running W98SE on a P-III/500 machine that I've managed to keep remarkably stable (where's the "knock-on-wood" icon to insert here?) over the years -- not without tons and tons of effort.

As a business system, I've got a lot of pretty customized software and it is no simple feat to go to a new computer (though it's probably not that bad once I have money enough to have them side-by-side and perhaps even networked and can migrate gradually -- a luxury I didn't have in the past). Besides the limitations of it being a P-III/500 and being inherently limited to 256 MB RAM since it's W98SE, it seems like a good system in light of the alternatives. I'm told by techie types that 2000 is also very good, but that in general there's little need to rush to go to a cutting-edge system and XP. I'm told that it won't necessarily be any more stable -- if even "as" stable -- and that the speed increases of the latest and greatest processors and MBs/RAM are severely compromised by the slowness and clumsiness of XP.

I have a tiny company (which is why "I" have to do the IT and wear all the other hats for now), but that may change in the not-too-distant future. It's likely that I won't need to network more than a dozen or so workstations before I raise serious money and can have others take over the IT and get any systems I want. Workstations in the interim will involve local programs and this machine as the data server for the most part.

So, the question is: how much would you invest precious time on tweaking, upgrading, cleaning up this system along the lines you've mentioned if the only problem I see is Nero freezing on launch sometimes and Word hiccupping in a harmless way on occasion?


Am I likely to want to keep using this machine for a long time if and when I raise money and are those improvements likely to be making enough difference to justify the time?

I'm not biased here either way. Just asking your opinion.

Thanks again!

Now to go read what the Nero tech has to say. The first line I noticed is "as far as I see .. it will be a problem which will not be simple to solve...". Great. How much is that new 2.4GB XP computer again?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, I have to give Nero credit for having finally gotten up to speed with me here and for being on top of this with me. I now have not only another detailed email from a senior tech in Germany, but even an email from TS Calif asking me to call them (I have no idea what led to that since I've been out of the loop with them).

I'm sure there's no ethical problem with posting what the Nero tech wrote to me, so here it is (I have no idea where in the world we're going with this):

===========================================

Jay,


>So glad to receive this email from you! I feel like I'm finally in excellent
>hands here.

I will do my best for solving the problem 
But as far as I see .. it will be a problem which will not be simple to solve..

>I'm curious, though -- how did you find out about my issue? Who referred you
>to this case? Also, have you happened to have seen the thread in the Tech
>Support Guys forum that I have going on this issue? And where are you, in
>the U.S? Germany? (Just so I have an idea of the time frames in which I can
>expect you to see and reply to emails.)

I come from Germany. Juan is my colleague. He sended your last e-mail to me,
because he do not have enough experiences for solving such strange problems.


>give him an ExtInfo file. I'm not sure I understand his directions clearly
>enough on how to run it once I install the patches and, well, something
>tells me I shouldn't do anything without your guidance at this point, so

I will come back later to the EXTINFO part.

>that's the strategy I'm now following. (Am I correct in assuming you're a
>more senior tech, if I may ask?)

This is correct.

>Please keep in mind that the Nero freeze on launch is "intermittent", so I
>was not able to follow your instructions exactly as worded. The only
>difference is that I had to get work done so I had opened and closed a few
>other apps in addition to Word before generating diagnostic files where you
>wanted me to just open and close Word and get Nero to freeze.

I will change my description: Make exact so that you will get a crash
in Nero.

>I've attached the following files:
>
>- DW filenames and procedures followed (gives the filenames of the
>Dependency Walker files I created and describes the procedures I followed
>just before creating them)
>
>- three DW files
>
>- TI filenames and procedures followed (gives the filenames of the
>ToolInfo2003 files I created and describes the procedures I followed just
>before creating them)
>
>- six TI files
>
>- one InfoTool.txt file, which I threw in as a bonus  which was generated
>last, immediately after I generated the last TI file and closed TI
>
>By the way, I got TI2003, not 2002, which I'm sure is irrelevant but I
>thought I'd mention it. This is what the site is currently making available.
>I also tried to register it so I could enable any optional features you
>might have wanted enabled, but their web site sucks for filling in credit
>card info -- they don't enable you to put in a "company name" as the
>cardholder, so they replied by saying they'll have to manually confirm the
>payment and it will take a day to do. From what I can tell, though, nothing
>in those optional features should matter anyway.

Until now I use only TaskInfo2002 and didn't used TaskInfo2002 so far..

I'm still on analyzing:

Can you try the following:
1. Please start Windows, then start Word and then
write anything by using the following fonts:

VERDANAI.TTF
WINGDING.TTF
VERDANAB.TTF
TIMESI.TTF
VERDANA.TTF
ARIALBI.TTF

As you got the crash you printed anything out. Please print a page too.

Do you get a crash now if you start Nero now (Please run Nero within
the Dependency Walker)?

2. Please start Nero after a fresh reboot. Please open the menu
file -> preferences -> file browser.
Please uncheck there the option: "Start with file browser"

Now close Nero

Now start Word and any other application which cause that Nero will
crash as soon as Nero is started.

-> do you get a crash after starting of Nero?
-> do you get a crash if you now manually open the file browser (view->
"new file browser")

I hope you do not use Nero Express (for the moment).

I will make some further analyzes..


Best regards,

Volker Landes
Ahead Software AG

===========================================

For my money (he says "euphemistically", or so he thinks, while his company is hanging in the balance), I'm guessing that the fact that Word misbehaves intermittently is tied to the Nero issue. I seem to notice that Nero only freezes after Word was open, it's terribly odd that Word would be misbehaving, and now the Nero senior tech seems to be suspicious of a connection with Word, too, though nothing in what he's talking about yet indicates that he's suspicious of the Word "misbehavior" aspect of things, unless he's still just in an info-gathering phase and hasn't shared all his insights and thoughts with me yet.

I'm guessing that if and when I fix this Nero problem, I will, at the same time, have also fixed the problem of Word misbehaving, and vice versa.

That's "if" I ever get there.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

I don't know what to tell you about the time involved - it'll certainly give you some insight into a common techie headache. You're quite careful, and it's taking a long time for what I imagined to be about an hour and a half in total for me. It's a good learning experience tho' - and I'm sure I've been there . From this far away one has to be a bit psychic about what's happening - I miss the little clues (catching ASAPI on the standard glance tru add/remove - the time delays for what happens - when the drive spins etc.). 
Regarding the company system growing, and this older machine - in my experience such machines don't often really go away - after it's no longer your's, or doing the particular tasks it's doing currently - it'll likely become someone's workstation - so the bios stuff (and anything else which survives a reinstall of an OS including collecting suitable hardware drivers on CD) seems a reasonable thing to do - but of course I'm not clear on your situation.

The MS word isssue kinda leads me back to the fact that your ups may loading an older set of the visual c redistributables on the boot - but I'll watch and see what happens for a while. If you want to play - try unchecking the UPS startup item in msconfig.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

_If you want to play - try unchecking the UPS startup item in msconfig._ 
Already tried that, when I unchecked everthing practical. No help.

Do you think the ASAPI could be affecting Word?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Joe I know you've reinstalled Office and run repairs, but have you ever tried renaming the normal.dot templates?

Corruption of these is a common issue in Word and I don't believe they are replaced by reinstalls or updates since they store user settings.

And have you run an antivirus scan against all the document files to rule out any infected macros?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I know that I turned off the UPS PLD Reminder in MSCONFIG, that there's nothing related to UPS in my StartUp folder (the MSCONFIG item seems to put an entry in there or take it out, and it was definitely out when I had MSCONFIG unchecked), and that my problem occurs when I haven't open the UPS program.

I did a Find Files/Folders on the C: drive for "ups" and here's all that I found that isn't in the C:\UPS folder and clearly isn't in any other folder that can be a problem:

C:\Windows\UPSWShip.ini
C:\Windows\System\Upselt.drv (Eltron UPS Label Printer Driver)

I'm ignoring the two ...\APPLOG\*.lgc files (which I assume are innocuous), and things like cookies, etc, that I know are innocuous.

If that helps.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Funny you mention Normal.dot. I had just been perusing the MS site about the exact same thing:

General Word troubleshooting:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q259413

LINKS ON THAT PAGE INCLUDE:

Renaming Normal.dot:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q259413#Topic6B

Rename Data key:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q259413#Topic6C

Rename the Options key:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q259413#Topic6D 
_____________________________

No, I haven't tried renaming Normal.dot yet. I'll do that now.

(Can you imagine this, or either of the other two items above, affecting Nero?)


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Dreamboat in Business Applications is our best support of Office type application problems like this. I can say I've seen an odd assortment of errors traced to it, but usually they are flat out hangs or errors in Word itself.

Almost anytime an application goes awry, it can affect the way memory is used or released.


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Didn't realize it was off now - there is still a path statement in the autoexec you might REM ou for the moment
PATH=%PATH%;C:\UPS\Common\SuppAsst\lib

One potential issue you might let the Nero techs be aware of (if they aren't already) are the drive SUBST commands you have present in your autoexec.bat file
SUBST F: C:\
SUBST G: C:\Apps
SUBST H: C:\Data\GoldMine
SUBST J: C:\Data

It's really too bad the new version of startuplist doesn't show these by default.

Have you uninstalled the alternate aspi layer provided by ASAPI yet?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, it's not off "now". I got a Nero freeze when it was off, so I ruled it out and turned it back on.

I was assuming that the UPS path in autoexec.bat won't be utilized unless a UPS file calls for something there, but I guess that's wrong -- any program that calls for a file that's in there could be affected, right?

I'll let Nero know about the SUBST lines.

I didn't get rid of ASAPI yet. Why? I don't know. I guess I'm trying to be systematic at this point and do one thing at a time so I know what I can put back when it's fixed, plus I'm trying not to change things much until the Nero tech proceeds with his diagnostics, plus I have yet to have anyone make clear if I should just disable ASAPI.VXD or uninstall ASAPI Update in Add/Remove, plus, well, nobody has made it clear that uninstalling it won't possibly affect anything else that might need it.

How's that for overly conservative?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

And "Yes", I run virus scans on the C: drive weekly, and keep my definitions up-to-date religiously.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

A CLUE?

Nero's senior tech in Germany suggested that I go into Preferences - File Browser and uncheck "Start with file browser". So I did. He suggested I run a while that way and keep seeing if Nero freezes on launch, and that if it doesn't I should try to click "View - New File Browser" and see if that freezes it.

For a while, I was able to do both without getting a freeze, but then, after working in Word and other apps awhile, sure enough, Nero launched fine but clicking "View - New File Browser" caused Nero to freeze!

I then did End Task on Nero, launched it again, and repeated the same steps, and it froze again when I clicked "View - New File Browser".

After I did End Task again, and had no apps open, I tried to do a shutdown of the system to see if it would still hang like it always did after a Nero freeze, and it hung.

So, I'm wondering what this might tell us. Does it necessarily give us any more insight? Does it point to, or rule out, ASAPI.VXD (which I have not yet uninstalled or disabled at all), or Normal.dot or something else in Word, or what?

By the way, I just noticed I don't seem to have the main nero Help file -- Nero.hlp file -- anywhere on my hard disk. I downloaded the demo version of Nero and then used my purchased serial number to make it a retail version. I would have thought the help file would be included.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Here's a stupid question -- but maybe it's not so stupid. You tell me.

I don't see any reason why I shouldn't have the Nero.hlp file on my system.

I always keep Norton AntiVirus 2002 running, even when I download and "install" programs, and it was running when I installed Nero.

I always update both the virus definitions and the updates to the NAV program religiously. The only file types I have listed in Exclusions are *.nch and *.dbx (which I'm sure are the defaults).

I have never seen any reason to be concerned that having NAV running would prevent anything from installing properly.

Is it possible that I didn't get a proper installation of Nero because of NAV, and that that might be why I don't have Nero.hlp and possibly even why I'm getting Nero freezes?

I do notice that I've been leaving Nero set to the default in Preferences - General where "Load antivirus plugin at startup" is left checked on. I can't imagine that that would be causing problems, though. Do you think it might? (It obviously couldn't be the reason I don't have Nero.hlp, though.)


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, just to be safe and to double-check, I wiped Nero with CleanTool, rebooted, wiped the C:\Temp folder and the C:\Windows\Temp folder (so no old installation files existed), disabled NAV, and then reinstalled Nero.

I still don't have Nero.hlp on my system.

I'll let you know if I still get Nero freezes on View - New File Browser.


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Well, having Nortan AntiVirus on during the install of Nero was not the cause of the problem. It's still there.

Nero tech now tells me that from what I've sent him (which included a number of Dependency Walker and TaskInfo2003 diagnostic files), ASAPI is not the problem, either.

I'm now going to try disabling Word's Normal.dot (and then the Data and Options keys).


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

Nero tech now suspects the SUBST lines in autoexec. (I think I may have incorrectly said the opposite earlier, but I now see that he said it would only get ruled out if Nero still froze with "Start with File Browser off", which it doesn't do. It doesn't freeze until I click "View - New File Browser".)

He just wrote:
=================
My guess is for the moment, that the SUBST commands are part of the problems. Nero tries to get informations about each drive. It could be possible, that there is any limitation which cause the conflict. A limitation which only occurs if any other program has an open file (handle) in the drives generated with SUBST.
=================

He also now says he does not think the Word settings files have anything to do with it.

On another note...

IMM, regarding your now infamous command line to run  , if I look in the roxio.inf file and look at the [Uninstall] section, it contains the following:

[Uninstall]
RequiredEngine=setupapi
RunPreSetupCommands=UninstallEngine
SmartReboot=D
CustomDestination=WMP.Destination
DelFiles=Copy.Core
DelReg=DelReg.Uninst
DelDirs=deldirs

What do you think?


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

FYI (in the event that "inquiring minds want to know" after hanging in there with me through all this so far)...

WE FOUND THE PROBLEM... SORT OF!!!

Nero's senior tech in Germany and I have gone through a great deal of my doing various tests and running various diagnostics for him at various system states and sending him lots of files and screen shots of diagnostics that won't display in log files (especially Regmon). He determined that, of all things, my mapped network drive in W98SE that allows me to access my networked computer was the culprit (Etherlink through 3Com network card through LinkSys switch router sharing only the DSL modem connection and one other computer).

We had already determined that if I turn off the default in Nero that says "Open with New File Browser" (Preferences - File Browser tab) I can always open Nero fine but will sometimes get it to freeze when I then try to manually open a new file browser window in it by clicking "View - New File Browser". (Note that this is still "only" occurring after I've been running my apps -- perhaps that has to include Word, I'm not sure -- "for quite a while".)

Sure enough, I tested his theory. I had been working for a while, opened Nero, clicked "View - New File Browser", and it froze. So I did End Task on Nero, disconnected my mapped network drive in Explorer, opened Nero, clicked "View - New File Browser", and it gave me a new file browser window without freezing! I did it again three times successfully. Then I immediately reconnected the mapped network drive, opened Nero, and clicking "View - New File Browser" again froze Nero.

This is strange. Mapped network drives in W98SE are a very common thing from what I can tell, and the computer it's mapped to has had no activity at all during all these Nero freezes. It's just "there".

Very strange.

He now has me running Filemon continually with the mapped network drive connected and with the Filter in Filemon set to only monitor the mapped network drive.

And the adventure continues...


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## IMM (Feb 1, 2002)

Glad you kept us updated. I've been wondering what happened.
You've got a weird one


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

For inquiring minds who still want to know, it seems we resolved the Nero freezing issue, more or less.

Their senior tech determined with my diagnostic feedback that it only froze when accessing all files/folders and when I had the mapped network drive connected. Disconnecting the mapped network drive fixed the problem. The tech determined that it was Nero asking for the Free Space reading off the mapped network drive that was the problem, so he removed that from the Nero.exe and sent me the modified version, which seems to be doing fine.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Thanks for the wrapup Joe. I must say that's certainly great support from Nero!


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## Joseph King (Jun 30, 2001)

I agree it was great support from Nero, but I wouldn't want to be giving people the wrong idea. Getting any attention at all from anyone at Nero who had a clue beyond what you and I know off the top of our heads or what anyone can get from doing a quick search was like pulling teeth. Calls to Germany got a rude and uncooperative woman and no replies from tech support for weeks until I kept pressing and even threatened that I'm active on very popular techie sites.

Troubleshooting this problem took countless hours of my time in doing what the senior Nero tech asked me to do and giving him diagnostic reports.

I think he realized early along the way that it may be a bug worth chasing down, and that I was able and willing to do my part in it.

On the other hand, he did try to give me a "band-aid" fix to at least get me running, and once we had a dialog and mutual respect he was very through and responsive.

I think it's reasonable to assume that the change he made in the executable for me is going to soon be a permanent change in all the executables they send out, but I could be wrong.

MY THANKS AGAIN TO YOU AND IMM FOR ALL THE EFFORT TO HELP!


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