# Solved: Installing duplicate Windows 98 on new drive



## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

My C: drive is beginning to show occasional signs of distress (no errors or data loss so far, just occasional refusal to boot). I'm thinking of "replacing" the drive as painlessly as possible by installing a new drive next to it and leisurely moving everything to the new drive before I even consider phasing out the old one.

This computer came (used) with Windows 98SE already installed but I also have my own (fully legal) 98SE CD. I've reinstalled parts of Windows before but never tried installing it from scratch on a new drive. Would there be any problems with installing a complete Windows 98SE system on the new D: drive while continuing business as usual from the old C: drive until I'm good and ready to switch the positions of the two drives?

------------------------------
Dell Precision Workstation 220, about 2003
Pentium III, 733 MHz with 256 Mb RAM
Windows 98 SE (have the CD)
One EIDE drive, room for another.
Old drive is 20 Gb (Western Digital "Caviar Blue", WD200BB), about 25% full
New drive will be as similar as possible, probably 80 Gb.
CD, CD-R and floppy drives available 

Have CDs for all my software except what was downloaded.
Have CD and/or Compact Flash backups of pretty much all my data.
Have Windows Startup Disks on both CD and floppy.


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## chrome57 (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi it should be no problem, boot off the CD and choose install on the D drive and it should be all fine


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

gophersnake,
yes, no, and maybe,
confused?
if you try to have TWO active harddrives,
it will most likely cause problems,
.
you do need to prepare,
FIRST - if you need to backup any info, do it,
did you burn the downloded programs to a disc when you downloaded them?
the current versions may not be compatable with the w9.x series,
.
- while you still have ALL your current info
- - go to 'device manager,
- - make note of ALL your hardware
or 
download and run belarc or siw
.
- go to the dell site, 
- download ALL the drivers for your particular model
[will need your line ticket number]
.
note: some w9.x cd's were bootable, some weren't,
download or make a 'boot disc'
- set your bios boot order to boot from the cd 1st,
[if it don't work, you can then change the bios to the floppy]
.
if you PREPARE, no big deal,
jump in the middle - CAN be a really messy operation,
.
before consigning your current harddrive to the scrap heap though,
you might try replacing the cmos battery,
.
and good luck,


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Why not just make a clone of the old to the new and use the new one?

Free Drive Cloners/Imagers:

Farstone Driveclone Express
Macrium Reflect
Paragon Drive Backup Express
Clonezilla (Bare-metal restoration from image)
Partimage
Dubaron Diskimage
SystemRescueCD
EaseUs Disk Copy (Copies disks or partitions)
XXClone
CloneZilla GParted LiveCD (Complete partitioning and drive imaging/restoration tools)
Drive Image XML
Partition Saving
PCI CloneMaxx
HDClone
DriveClonerXP
Self-Image
copyr.dma (Copies disk with bad sectors for recovery)

Commercial Apps:

Paragon Drive Backup
Easy Image
[email protected] Disk Image
O&O DiskImage
Acronis True Image Home
Farstone Drive Clone (Drive image, snapshots, file/folder backups.)
EAZ-FIX Professional and Easy Image
Drive Snapshot
ShadowProtect (Also online backups.)
Keriver Image
Avanquest Copy Commander
Paragon Drive Backup
NovaBackup
R-Drive Image
Norton Ghost
HDClone Pro or Enterprise
Terabyte Image for Windows
Terabyte Image for DOS (can directly access FAT, FAT32, and NTFS partitions)
Spotmau Disk Clone & Backup


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

> just occasional refusal to boot





> before consigning your current harddrive to the scrap heap though,
> you might try replacing the cmos battery,


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> make a clone of the old to the new


well, to do it that way,
how many of those you listed are COMPATABLE with the w9.x series os?
.
probably be better to just use the drive manufacturer's utility,
know those work,


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

They all work with 9x. Offline cloning has no relation to the content or structure of the drives.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

Hey, thanks for all the suggestions! To dispose of the simplest first: I did change the battery, less than a month ago, and I even thought that had solved the problem. It turns out, though, that after this computer has been running for a few hours, if it's shut down briefly and then restarted, the BIOS can't find the C: drive and concludes that there isn't any. Waiting an hour (powered down) may not clear up the problem but so far, waiting two hours or longer always has. Although I'm not positive it's the drive itself that's doing this, it's about 6 years old now and I'd rather change it out before it gets seriously bad.

I'd never heard of cloning before. I just found a discussion of it in a Wkipedia article as well as a Comparison of disk cloning software. I'll have to get back to you guys after I've had a day or two to study them.

I noticed in skimming through the articles that some cloning software has been known to copy an image of a 20-Gb disk to an 80-Gb disk so exactly that the 80-Gb disk becomes a 20-Gb disk. I'd want to make fairly sure that wasn't going to happen.

I'm trying to anticipate what else might possibly get copied too literally -- something in the Windows Registry, maybe, misidentifying the new hard drive as the old? Or does that stuff get read from the actual hardware each time?

Once I finished cloning C: onto D:, could I really expect to move D: to the C: position and have the system carry on as if nothing had happened?



daniel_b2380 said:


> if you try to have TWO active harddrives, it will most likely cause problems


I wasn't planning to run Windows on more than one at a time. Am I missing something?



> did you burn the downloaded programs to a disc when you downloaded them?


Yes and no ;-) I did burn some self-installing downloads to CD after I first downloaded them, but all or most of those programs have been updated from online many times since. In many cases I do have a current or recent version on CD but just copying the files to the new drive wouldn't necessarily be the same as installing the program. I guess the one thing I'm least sure about is how to make those little Thunderbird and Firefox icons appear on the taskbar. Is dragging them there from the desktop an option?



> go to the dell site,
> - download ALL the drivers for your particular model
> [will need your line ticket number]


But if I copy all the files to the new drive, won't the drivers be among them? Anyway, I don't know what a line ticket number is. I bought this computer used.



> download or make a 'boot disc'


Done -- I tried several methods and have at least one working floppy and one working CD.



> if you PREPARE, no big deal,
> jump in the middle - CAN be a really messy operation


I believe you, I believe you! That's why I'm here, asking all these questions. What I really dread is finding out, after it's too late to go back, that I omitted some stupid little detail in the preparation. That's one reason I'd like, if possible, to have the new drive completely ready to go so all I have to do is switch the cables around and start booting from it.

[Update: I had a Symantec page loading in another tab even as I was posting this. It turns out that Norton Ghost 14 requires either Vista or XP, so on to Plan B.]


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Cloning is just making an exact image. But there is some slight flexibility. Most cloning software allows you to clone a smaller partition to a larger one. But even if it doesn't, it is very easy to use any of the free, bootable partitioning tools to simply resize the partition to fill the entire drive after cloning is done.

Most people here use Acronis True Image as imaging software to make exact copies of their drives for backup purposes. This app also includes a cloner, so that is what is used most often.

But it costs money, and cloning is not rocket-science, so there are many perfectly functional, free cloners. One that has been used here a few times, that is simple and runs from within Windows, is the free version of XXClone. EASEUS Disk Copy also works well and is free. And the free version of HDClone (which I have used a lot) is only limited in that the free version will not copy to a smaller drive, but will to a larger one.

Cloning is best done from a bootable CD (except in the case of XXClone). If Windows is never booted during the cloning process, the possibility of confusing drive letters and misassignments does not occur. The CD is booted, the clone made, and the cloned drive placed in the position of the original before Windows is booted again.

Cloning has always been a very common procedure. People are always wanting to use larger drives without losing all they have worked to set up. So each disk manufacturer also offers free cloning software.


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## chrome57 (Apr 10, 2008)

Quote
{Once I finished cloning C: onto D:, could I really expect to move D: to the C: position and have the system carry on as if nothing had happened?}
Well yes and no.Yes, you will have a bootable image on the new drive. But the jumpers may need changing from Slave to Master And none of the device drivers will be loaded. Depending on the cloning software you may, or may not have to run "fixboot."


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

There is no "fixboot" in the 9x family of operating systems.

And, yes, *gophersnake*, a successful clone will boot right up. I even had a Vista clone boot right up and Vista is extremely fussy about hardware changes, often requiring a "Startup Repair" before booting after something like that.

Also, most cloning apps do not reqiuire that you already have partitions on the new drive. Since they copy, they copy the partitions, too. But you would have to read the directions for whichever you chose, because not all would have that partitioning functionality built in.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

chrome57 said:


> And none of the device drivers will be loaded.


Why not? If the driver files get cloned onto the new drive along with the other files, why won't the system use them the same way as on the old drive? I don't think the drives themselves need any specific drivers -- everything that wants to read or write uses the same BIOS calls.

Elvandil, I'm investigating XXClone. I just downloaded the free version and printed out most of the instruction manual. It's a little disturbing that they mention that "over 90%" of their users succeed in getting their target drive to boot -- but I have lots of reading to do. I doubt that I'll try any cloning or even drive installing before the weekend.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

gopher,
post #7


> Originally Posted by daniel_b2380
> if you try to have TWO active harddrives, it will most likely cause problems


I wasn't planning to run Windows on more than one at a time. Am I missing something?

post#1


> Would there be any problems with installing a complete Windows 98SE system on the new D: drive while continuing business as usual from the old C: drive until I'm good and ready to switch the positions of the two drives?


..................................................

post #7


> guess the one thing I'm least sure about is how to make those little Thunderbird and Firefox icons appear on the taskbar. Is dragging them there from the desktop an option?


yes, that is an option,
or, just put them in the quick launch folder
i don't have win me,
but in w98:
C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch



> go to the dell site,
> - download ALL the drivers for your particular model
> [will need your line ticket number]





> But if I copy all the files to the new drive, won't the drivers be among them?


if you just 'copy-&-paste' - NO
if you format and install - NO
if you 'image' them - YES
if you use a harddrive manufacters utility to 'copy' the drive - YES
[which is the way i do it],



> Anyway, I don't know what a line ticket number is. I bought this computer used.


i call them line ticket numbers,
it'll be on a sticker on the case,
[if it hasn't been removed],
which is NOT the writing molded into the plastic,
but the SPECIFIC sub-model of that unit,
if you want to say it another way,



> That's why I'm here, asking all these questions. What I really dread is finding out, after it's too late to go back, that I omitted some stupid little detail in the preparation.


yeah buddy, ask LOTS!
but you know what?
there'll still probably be some little detail somewhere.............


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

gophersnake said:


> Why not? If the driver files get cloned onto the new drive along with the other files, why won't the system use them the same way as on the old drive? I don't think the drives themselves need any specific drivers -- everything that wants to read or write uses the same BIOS calls.
> 
> Elvandil, I'm investigating XXClone. I just downloaded the free version and printed out most of the instruction manual. It's a little disturbing that they mention that "over 90%" of their users succeed in getting their target drive to boot -- but I have lots of reading to do. I doubt that I'll try any cloning or even drive installing before the weekend.


Yes, of course the drivers are still installed in the clone.

"Over 90%"? Well, assuming that maybe 25% will read the directions, maybe that is really a high number after all. 

But if it didn't work the first time, at least nothing is lost. You can try again, or try a different cloner.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm writing this from my spare computer. The old drive wouldn't come up at all last night, even after 7 hours of "cooling off" time, so I went ahead and added the new one. It's successfully partitioned and formatted, and the system recognizes 80 Gig. I installed Windows more or less successfully but as someone above warned, I'm in driver hell. The display is low-res, I can't get the modem installed, and System Information says quite a few other devices are missing some of their drivers.

Windows sees two COM ports on that system. When the system was working, the modem was on "COM3" -- probably implemented through drivers. So far I haven't been able to get that modem to work via Windows, and the USR modem installation routine (self-starting CD) keeps crashing. One of my top priorities is to get that modem (or SOME modem) working so I can go online without moving my monitor into the lifeboat each time.

More later -- gotta go soon. I'm still hoping the other drive will wake up long enough for me to grab a bunch of stuff off it. If not, I have a lot of research to do (unless I cave in and spring for an even newer computer).

One interesting observation: as long as my BIOS was treating the malfunctioning drive as "AUTO", I never bothered to iquire how big, etc., it thought the drive was. Well, last night I did check. After the new drive was formatted, BIOS recognized that as 80 Gb -- but before AND after the new drive was up, it kept seeing the old (20 Gig) one as "4227 MB". I suspect the drive has been misidentifying itself or otherwise acting unready, and that's why I've had those intermittent boot failures.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

http://support.dell.com/support/top...d=DAD1AFE6F90145549F7AA300E6671E47&l=en&s=gen
Technical Support 
What is a Service Tag and How Do I Locate It?
...................................................

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ws220/en/ug/index.htm
Dell Precision™ WorkStation 220 System User's Guide


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/inf/sb/CS-009266.htm
Intel® Chipset Identification Utility 
Utility to identify your Intel® chipset

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/820/
Intel 820 chipset

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/cs-009233.htm
Intel® 820 Chipset Family 
Chipset information and downloads


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

If you ever get the old one booted, back up the drivers from there.

WinDriversBackup (TSG Version)
DriverBackup! 2
DriverMax
Driver Magician Lite (mirror)
Driver Collector
Double Driver


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for hanging with me, guys. Here's where I am now:

-- Still on the "lifeboat" computer, learning to use Netscape 4.5 again.

-- About the best news from today (technically yesterday) is that I now have working Compact Flash "drives" on both computers. A 1-Gig CF card can move a lot of files. Unfortunately, the files I'm likely to need most may not be on this computer either.

-- I've seen no signs of life from the defunct drive. Since BIOS can't relate to it, I don't see much point making it the primary drive and hoping for it to come back.

-- I'd say my top priority has become getting the Dell to recognize the modem again. It's 7x faster than this one and has 10x the memory, so it's much better for going online.

On this computer, Device Manager informs me that I have the usual two serial ports, COM1 and COM2. The modem, however, is connected to COM3.

On the Dell, Device Manager informs me that I have the same two serial ports, COM1 and COM2. I remember that modem, too, being connected to a higher-numbered port, COM3 or COM5 or something like that. The little USB writeup [should be "USR" as in U.S.Robotics] says the modem can *only* connect to COM5. There's a driver, DOSBOX.INF, that's supposed to juggle the ports and somehow create a COM5 on the system. There's no sign of DOSBOX.INF anywhere on this computer so something else must be juggling the ports here.

I tried copying DOSBOX.INF from the USR CD to C:\WINDOWS\INF, rightclicking it and clicking "Install". Its name appears in a Registry key now but I still don't have my COM5 port.

In the morning I might try uninstalling/removing the modem, then plugging it back into a slot and seeing if I can get the New Hardware Wizard to do its thing. I didn't want to do that at the beginning because the modem had worked fine until then and I was hoping it would just pick up where it left off.

-- I use a scroll-wheel mouse (cord-type) and have been setting it so that the scroll wheel produces a double click when pressed. That's still possible on this computer but Windows on the Dell offers no settings for dealing with a scroll wheel. I've been looking at what it would take to copy the mouse drivers from this computer to the Dell, but it's far from obvious what they're called, where they're kept, or how to invoke them.

-- The Dell has a video card, NVIDIA I think, that used to give me pretty high resolution. The card can't have gone anywhere but Windows doesn't seem to know what to do with it. It says I have a "Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA)" and won't let me select more than 256 colors nor a screen bigger than 640 x 480. Looks like I'd better locate the card (follow the monitor cable home?) and get its ID next time I have the case open.

Oh, by the way, the NVIDIA site doesn't seem to work without JavaScript but Netscape crashes pretty regularly when JavaScript is enabled. I ran into similar problems at a couple of other potential driver sites, hence the emphasis on getting the modem in the Dell back into service.

-- The Dell Service Tag pages seem to have been disabled. I keep seeing links to what I want but when I click on them I just get another page with the same links.

-- Here are my problem devices, according to Device Manager:

"PCI Serial Controller" has a yellow question mark but Windows doesn't know what drivers (or whatever) are missing.

"PCI Multimedia Audio Device" has a yellow question mark and again, Windows doesn't know what's missing.

Under "Intel 82801AA Bus Master IDE controller" are two devices. The "Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)" appears to be for the hard drives, new and old. The secondary one seems to be for the CD drives. Device Manager gives the secondary a clean bill of health but marks the primary with a yellow dot with an exclamation point and says:


> This device is either not present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers installed. [Code 10.]
> 
> Try upgrading the device drivers for this device.


The controller appears to be doing fine with the new 80 Gb drive. Could the crazy old one be throwing it off somehow? I just might try unplugging it and seeing what changes.

-- Whoever was asking about the heat sink and CPU fan on the Dell (in this browser it's hard to look back at the thread while posting): there's a big green plastic duct surrounding a huge heat sink and, it looks like, a CPU somewhere in there. The far end of the duct funnels out to surround a fan. The power supply, about 4" higher in the mini-tower, has its own fan. I can feel both fans blowing whenever I check.

And now I'd better go get some sleep. Fortunately I was going to be around anyway tomorrow, waiting for a delivery (No, not a new computer! lol) so I'll have more time to try stuff.


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

COM3 and above are virtual ports implemented by the modem driver. They will not show up in Device Manager and will be created when the correct modem driver is installed.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

gopher,
the FIRST thing you have to do is install the chip-set drivers for the motherboard,
trying to install the OTHER drivers,
for the OTHER hardware items BEFORE the chip-set drives,
they STILL can't / won't funtion,
.
'nother way of 'looking' at it,
the chip-set drivers are like a pair of GLASSES,
which lets the os SEE the OTHER drivers
to then be able to USE the OTHER drivers for that hardware,
.
kinda like if you can't SEE,
it won't do you any good to try to get your drivers license,
IF you CAN'T SEE the road to be able to take the drivers exam???

you MOST LIKELY are using an 820 chip-set board,
but without the SPECIFIC id number of your unit,
you CAN'T just load ANY driver,
.
okay, if the links don't work for you as posted,
we'll have to do it the hard way,
as when they are posted, they get 'parsed'
which means you CAN'T 'copy-&-paste'
sooooooooo,
in the following links,
- copy and paste them to notepad,
- REMOVE the BRACKETS - [ ] < dem things,
- make one line of them, not the two i have
- NO spaces
- copy them then to your netscape browser's address bar

[http://support.dell.com/]
[support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/document?c=us&docid=DAD1AFE6F90145549F7AA300E6671E47&l=en&s=gen]
.
Technical Support 
What is a Service Tag and How Do I Locate It?
......................................................................

[http://support.dell.com/]
[support/edocs/systems/ws220/en/ug/index.htm]
.
Dell Precision™ WorkStation 220 System User's Guide
......................................................................

[http://www.intel.com/]
[support/chipsets/inf/sb/CS-009266.htm]
.
Intel® Chipset Identification Utility
Utility to identify your Intel® chipset
......................................................................

[http://www.intel.com/]
[design/chipsets/820/]
.
Intel® 820 Chipset
Mature Product (Discontinued)
......................................................................

[http://www.intel.com/]
[support/chipsets/sb/cs-009233.htm]
.
Intel® 820 Chipset Family
Chipset information and downloads
......................................................................

when YOU get the SPECIFIC model number of your unit,
and input that at the dell site,
you WON'T have to LOOK for any drivers,
dell will have a page of the drivers for THAT particular unit,
then you just download and install them,
for ALL the hardware that dell included in that model,
NOTE:
anything you've added since would have to be found,


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

The bad news is that this "lifeboat" system (an ALR from around 1992 with too little speed, too little RAM, Windows 98 4.10.1998 (i.e., *not* SE), and Netscape 4.5 is simply inadequate for what I need to do with it. Daniel, thank you very much for your work with those links but it turns out that Netscape is simply not up to accessing those articles. It takes 5 to 10 minutes to reach a definitive result (which may be a page, a "network error", or a browser crash). If I go there with JavaScript enabled, it hangs and/or crashes. If I try it with JS disabled, I don't get the content, just a few clusters of links to the same pages I'm already trying to get to. The "printable version" link is supposed to run a script, not take me to a more accessible page.

I was on the point of making plans to buy a new (well, used) computer just so I could get back online and troubleshoot the Dell properly. First, though, I thought I'd try reading the tags inside the Dell, copying the numbers off my video and other cards, and uninstalling the modem so I could reinstall it from scratch, USR's way.

Here's where the good news comes in: I started up the Dell and discovered I had an additional drive: my old hard drive, now "D:" and bumping other stuff like the CDs and CF up by a letter.

Since my new drive has so much more space than I ever expect to need, I've created a directory called DDump and copied everything from D: into it. In other words, there's now a "C:\Windows\" and a "C:\Ddump\Windows\" with different sets of files. Presumably my drivers and everything else are in there somewhere, along with the way the Windows folder was before I installed the new copy to C:.

I wasn't about to try restarting the computer till I was pretty sure I had everything from D: safely stashed on C:. Now that I'm in a better position to do without D: if it never shows up again, I may even try booting from it once or twice if my BIOS will let me. I was thinking I could at least save or print a copy of System Information to compare to the one I already have from the new installation.

In addition, I've created a directory called CpreD and copied into it every directory from my current inadequate system that I expect to be tinkering with -- adding or replacing drivers from D:, etc. That way, if I make anything worse I have a pretty good shot (I hope) at putting it back the way it is now.

I suspect I may have missed some files or directories, but I did see a fair number of "hidden" directories getting copied.

One thing I was saving regularly from the old drive (to CFs and eventually CD-Rs) was the Windows Registry files USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT -- via DOS, from autoexec, before Windows actually started. I'm not too wild about the idea of overwriting my current registry with those (unless things were to get REALLY bad, time-for-new-computer bad), I don't know how to extract anything useful from them, but I do have them.

If I get the modem to work (or get a better "lifeboat") I'll try your Dell links again with a decent browser. In the meantime, I suspect I do have copies of some or all the Dell drivers among the stuff I just saved, but I don't really know how to make use of them. I do have some folders purporting to contain Dell drivers, probably spare copies. If I don't come up with a better solution, I may poke through my saves to see where-all the filenames from those Dell folders used to appear and try copying them to the corresponding places in C:. I'll also comb through the old autoexec.bat and config.sys to see what those mention.

I hesitate to try cloning the D: drive onto C: at this point. If it didn't work for some reason and the D: drive doesn't come back any more, I might end up starting over without any of the stuff I just saved from it.


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## daniel_b2380 (Jan 31, 2003)

gopher,
the FILES [docs and pics] you copy are not a problem,
the folders and apps from the old drive from windows are not really of any use,
other than just for information,
.
as i wrote in my above post,
any winows components or applications HAVE to be INSTALLED,
so they can have the registry links needed to work,
.
hey,
do you have a friend or relative, living not to far, that you can get to let you use their pc?
you could then sign into your account here, access the links,
then just burn the needed items to a cd,
i hate to recommend a library as they have so many restrictions anymore,
'cause of people messing them up,
maybe a handful of floppys,
.
just a recommendation,
personally, other than your docs and pics,
i would stay with keeping your new drive as clean an install as possible,
.
if you want to pm me your address,
i would burn them to a cd for you,
i'm east coast, so to you maybe 2 - 4 days,
whatever you want to do,


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

*Light at the end of the tunnel?*

Could be an approaching train, of course, but I'm back on the Dell and have a working modem installed. The USR refused to install so I went back to the no-brand special I had before. I installed the Dell drivers that I found in a "Dell" folder from when I got this computer; I don't want to do much more tonight so I'll put off the visit to the Dell site a bit longer. I also installed the NVIDIA drivers from that Dell folder. My display improved over the "driverless default" but it's not back to what it used to be; the aspect ratio is a bit off, for one thing. Quite a few kinks to iron out but a lot of things are starting to work again.

I'm back in Firefox but I "installed" it by opening a very old Firefox installer I'd saved from 2005, then copying my latest program files and application data on top of the old. It complained when I first started it that some security feature couldn't be implemented, and I'm finding that not all control buttons work -- the "Go Advanced" below didn't; I'm hoping "Post" will. [it did!]


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## chrome57 (Apr 10, 2008)

Yes, well now you need the motherboard/chipset drivers. I would think that the Dell un support site will have a download service, you will need to search by the Model / service tag number. and download and install them, this will resolve all your issues. As a back up copy that download some place safe.


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## chrome57 (Apr 10, 2008)

As a back up system just go and get a Linux Ubuntu Live CD(real cheap) and it will enable your computer in Linux with all aplications, browser etc. Then you can download what you need and use the better computer. You may even like Linux, Firefox is great.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

I'm back on the Dell, hopefully to stay a while. My display is back to normal. I'd been using my big monitor on the ALR lifeboat and a smaller monitor with the Dell. I didn't realize the system would downgrade (or mess up!) the display to accommodate an inferior monitor.

That struggle with modem installation last night was kind of unnerving. I bought the USR new 3.5 years ago and don't remember any trouble installing it. I flash-updated it about a year ago -- that seemed to clear up some flakiness in its dealings with bad phone lines, but could it also have affected installability? I don't remember having to install "Dos Box" before (and I didn't find the INF for it in DDump) but this time, Dos Box or not, I couldn't get a COM5 for the modem and the modem would settle for nothing else. When I switched to my old cheapo modem, it kept trying to double-install itself (on COM4 and COM5 for instance) but when I eventually told it, "No, you can't have COM4, here, use COM3", it started working. I don't think I want to try again with the USR (risking modemlessness and Netscape hell) unless I get a whole lot more information about what was going on. A better lifeboat computer (with Linux or otherwise) might encourage me to resume taking modem risks.

I downloaded the Intel chipset identifier and got these results:


> Intel(R) 820 chipset
> 
> Components
> 
> ...


I found the Service Tag (oh, that little black thing on the side of the case!) and submitted the info to Dell. They came up with only two driver downloads, one of which ("Intel 800 Series Chipset INF Update Utility") is identical to the first of my four old Dell drivers folders. I'd already installed those so I just saved them in a folder and compared file dates. They offered only one other, apparently the same "Intel Security Driver" that I already have in my second folder. My third folder is "System Utilities", stuff like "AutoShutdown", that I haven't bothered installing. The fourth, which I didn't see at Dell yet, is "NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Display Driver for Dell". I installed that last night too, and it really did bring my display back to what I know as normal: 1024 x 768, 16-bit color, and a decent-sized desktop with room for lots of little icons.

I restored "Program Files" and "Application Data" to how I had them before and have been restoring my desktop. Some of my programs already run just by linking to them with a desktop shortcut, others do demand to be properly installed. Fortunately most of the latter are ones I already have CDs for.

Although I copied every folder on the flaky D: drive to C:\DDump, I'm finding that not all the files are actually there. For instance, there's a shortcut to "C:\Program Files\Accessories\HyperTerminal\HYPERTRM.EXE" but there's no hypertrm.exe in either Accessories folder and Start | Find can't locate it.

In the course of copying some of my programs and data out of DDump, I sometimes ended up with whole folders full of Read Only files. The programs that were relying on them wouldn't run and I had to go into DOS and ATTRIB them back to life. I don't know why hypertrm got left behind, though, nor what else might have.

I haven't heard from my late D: drive, the WDC, since that one stretch yesteday when it was acting perfectly normal. When I shut down the computer to mess with the modem card, that was the last I saw of the drive. At one point I tried unplugging the cables from it, leaving the system with one drive like it was for years, but it just hung up in POST and I couldn't even get into Setup. Maybe I'll need to change a jumper on the new Seagate (it's always been on "Cable Select" whether the WDC was working or not) or maybe I'll eventually need to tell Setup there's no second drive any more.

I suppose I should worry about a flaky PATA cable but now that I have a working drive and modem, the temptation to leave the cover closed is overwhelming.

In time I'll see if I can find and install a better mouse driver; I think I was using Intellipoint before without knowing it. I miss pressing the scroll wheel for a doubleclick.

System Information says (I'll only quote the interesting bits):


> PCI Multimedia Audio Device
> Unknown
> This Device Has a Problem: Code=28 (0x1C)
> The drivers for this device are not installed correctly. To install the driver
> ...


There are slightly different messages about the same devices in Device Manager but they're not as convenient to copy-paste so I'll get to them later. I don't know how to reconcile the "not working" IDE controller with what appears to be only one (perfectly good) drive connected to it. Anyway, the good drive now is connected exactly the same way as the bad one was before.

Believe it or not, there are other things I want to do this weekend so I may ease up for a while on the rest of this restoration. Thanks for all the good ideas, and I'd appreciate anything else you can tell me in response to the latest developments.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

chrome57, I looked at the system requirements for Ubuntu and Xubuntu. I could run it on my (now-) good computer but my "lifeboat" has nowhere near the resources for it. I think what I need is a better lifeboat.

I've been retrieving/restoring the programs I'm most used to. Word 97 comes up and seems to work, though it complains that some files are missing. I have the CD so if it becomes enough of a pain I'll just reinstall it. TurboCAD said it couldn't find a .dll it needed. I found the dll and a few close relatives in DDump\Windows\System, copied them to C:\Windows\System, and TurboCad seemed to be working again. Photoshop wants to be reinstalled (can do). I wanted Hypertrm but surprisingly, although the shortcut to it had made it onto \DDump, the .exe was nowhere to be found. I finally reinstalled it, and a couple of other things like Sysmon and Minseweeper, from the Windows CD. I'd forgotten how easy it is to add programs that way.

This modem seems to work at least as quickly as the USR. It's got an Intel 536EP chipset but nobody wants to admit to assembling it. I think it's a "winmodem" where the CPU does some of the work. I miss the ATI6 and ATI11 commands that used to tell me what the phone line had been like; heck, I can't even find the command (if there is one) for listing the rest of the command set.

I'm going to try to carry on with business as usual, adding back my old programs and shortcuts and tweaking settings as I find I need them. Somewhere along the line I may get a chance to write up the notes I've been scrawling too, just in case they should ever become relevant again.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

Looks like I have Windows and all my usual software back. I'm currently downloading (80 MB over dialup -- holy cow!) one of the few programs that I can't get to run even though all the files are there. It's paid for and I still have the installation key.

My mouse still doesn't have a driver that'll let me set up the scroll-wheel button for double-clicking. I have a file, dated soon after I got this computer, that appears to be a mouse driver installer but I don't remember anything about it:

```
MICROS~1 EXE     1,242,624  07-16-05 11:18p MicrosoftMouse.exe
```
 I'm thinking of just running it and seeing what happens.

My printer (HP 870 Csi) seems to be working OK with the drivers included in Windows but I used to have access to an HP "toolkit" for it that no longer works.I have the shortcut and the file that it points to; the first time I clicked the link, a little error window opened telling me I was missing a certain .dll file. Very well, I found it among my saved files and copied it to \Windows, or \Windows\system, or wherever I'd gotten it from. Click; another missing dll, then another, for a total of seven or so. Finally -- click, and a stark white error window warning me that there isn't enough memory or something. I also tried installing that driver from a CD of HP drivers for all kinds of printers. No matter when I put the disk in the CD drive, though -- before or after Windows asks where I want to get the drivers from -- the drive starts revving up, slowing down, revving up, slowing down, and the computer starts to freeze up with nothing promising coming up on screen. I got into that loop a couple of times, had to abort with Ctrl-Alt-Del, and finally gave up. According to some 2006 notes I found, I did manage to install those same printer drivers from that same CD once before. Twice, even -- I apparently installed two copies of the same printer and had to delete one of them.

I'm going to mark this thread "solved" as soon as I find the button to do that with. Thanks again for all the help.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

BTW, I discovered two reasons I was having so much trouble installing my HP printer drivers from that old (used computer store) CD I had: 

1. my CD drive was really struggling to read some of the files, though it turned out the other one (CD-R) could read them just fine. 

2. When I did run Setup, it tried to unzip to the same directory it was being run from but couldn't seem to figure out it was on a CD. When I ran it on the Desktop, it created a new folder (with lots of files and a Setup.exe) on the desktop. When I ran the Setup, it installed the printer and the "toolbox" for it (cleaning and aligning cartridges, stuff like that). The final (twice-unzipped!) files ended up in places like C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM.

The printer is back in the version I remembered. Unfortunately Windows doesn't seem to realize I even have that driver so it keeps "finding" a "new" printer at startup and offering to install it. I'm trying to remember how I tricked it into stopping last time. I think it was either by letting it try to find drivers, fail, and give up or by letting it install the drivers from the Windows collection, then deleting the resulting duplicate-but-not-really printer.

Oh, I also ran the MicrosoftMouse.exe. that I'd downloaded (and saved) right after I got this computer. It installed "Microsoft IntelliPoint Version 2.2" and I now have all my wheel mouse functions back.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

I just ordered a second 80-Gig Seagate exactly like this one. The first (WDC) drive seems to be a total loss but the system on this second drive is working well enough that I'm ready to try cloning it to the third drive. Once I get the drive set up, I'm planning to unplug it and leave it in the drive bay for a spare.


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## gophersnake (Mar 5, 2006)

I got my spare drive today, another Seagate identical to the one I've been using for the last 2 weeks. After FDISKing and formatting it, I tried running the freeware version of xxclone. No go; xxclone can't seem to find any drives on the system to clone either from or to, even though everything else from "My Computer" to DOS can see (and read from, and write to) both the C: and the D: drives. I'm still not sure what folders I needed to have what xxclone files in -- C:\Program Files, C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM, C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32, or C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND. The instructions are unclear on that point and seem to conflict with what the installer is trying to do.

I gave up on xxclone and tried booting from a Windows 98SE Startup Disk and installing Windows from scratch. The only way the install wizard asked "what drive?" was in the form, "what directory?" so I specified D:\WINDOWS. When the computer restarted for about the fourth time, I had an exceedingly minimal and ugly Windows desktop in front of me and was apparently running at least partly on D:. I tried installing the Dell drivers (starting with the Intel 820 Chipset ones) but the installer insisted they were already there -- somewhere. 

After struggling for a while to improve the Windows on D:, knowing all the while that it was probably linked in mysterious ways to the one on C:, I gave up and "installed" Windows again, this time to C:\WINDOWS. I expected I'd be back to "square 1" on the C: drive and have to reinstall all my drivers and everything, but three surprising things happened:

1. The installer offered to save my "old" system in case I decided wanted it back. (I let it, and ended up with about three large new files in the root directory of C:.)

2. The installer didn't ask me what Windows features and accessories (WordPad, Hypertrm, SysInfo, SysMon, etc.) I wanted and didn't want. It apparently installed only Windows itself around what I already had on the system.

3. When the reinstall was done and the computer restarted, I had my old display, Desktop, and all my hardware and software back. AVG did ask me to enter my user key (no big deal) but everything else I've tried so far -- Photoshop, Word, the DeskJet Toolbox, Firefox, Thunderbird, the sound card, the modem -- works as before.

I'm hoping that if the time ever comes to switch to that other Seagate, at least some of the stuff I've loaded onto it, such as the installer files for the drivers and a lot of the software, will make it a little easier to get it working as my main drive.


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