# Solved: Dual boot Windows 7 & 8



## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Macboatmaster,

You mentioned that Windows 7 64 bit can install on GPT but I just tried and got a message that it had to be MBR. I'm trying to install Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit in a spare partition on my Windows 8 box and I'd be very happy if it would install on GPT. Am I missing something? I'd like to be able to dual boot 7 and 8.


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

If you changed the mode to Legacy
then that is what the windows 7 boots from and it will not boot and recognise a GPT UEFI system in Legacy as Legacy is the traditional BIOS and MBR

There is ONE VITAL step you must take if you wish to be safe and that is a complete image of the drive and a repair disc to reinstall 8 if it goes pear shaped.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

OK my bios is uefi but the partition I'm attempting to install W7 on is the "D" drive (760G partition, of a 1 Tb drive), with only data on it. W8 is on the "C" drive (150G partition). Is it possible there's no MBR on the "D" drive? Will formatting the "D" drive put an MBR on it?


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

See the link please and especially the image on post 4
http://www.eightforums.com/installa...g-windows-7-windows-8-pre-installed-uefi.html

I recommend caution, unless you are not bothered about anything on the computer, you need to consider, I think, the note in my post 8.
Do you have the means to start again, without losing all personal data etc.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

OK, thanks much for the info. I'll study it thoroughly. It's beginning to sound much more complicated than I'd have thought. I hate Windows 8 more and more the longer I have it but it's beginning to look like I'm stuck with it


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

I'd like to install Windows 7 in a partition of the hard drive on my new Windows 8 computer. I've read lots of stuff all over the internet, and also in forums here, in Tech Support Guy. It looks like the only way it'll work properly is I have to completely wipe the hard drive, partition it to my needs, then install Windows 7, then install Windows 8. Am I understanding correctly?


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

No you are NOT - stuck with it
From the other topic - you need to decide if you are going down the road of 7 ONLY 
or dual boot
The situation is this
ALL computers with 8 pre-installed that are OEM eg Dell HP Toshiba etc are a UEFI firmware and therefore a GPT partitioned disc

UEFI boots from a FAT32 partition on the GPT drive
The other partitions are NTFS
The FAT partition contains the Windows Boot files
That is why in UEFI your boot is to Windows Boot Manager - that is the FAT partition

If you disable secure boot and ONLY do that, then depending on how your computer is set up, you then boot to the Windows 7 64 bit disc by setting first boot device as the UEFI optical device shown in post 4 on the link I sent

If on the otherhand you enable legacy boot then you must boot from the SAME optical device but not the UEFI listing for it - again see post 4 on that link you will notice the device is listed as the same - but for the UEFI

Also if you go back to that image you will see that the hard disc is listed twice but one listing is Windows boot manager

A 64 bit Windows 7 installation disc will see and install on UEFI firmware
A 32 bit will not see GPT

There are TWO major considerations - one is have you as I have said the means to reinstall 8 if it goes pear shaped
The other is have you checked that drivers are available for the computer for windows 7
NOT all computers supplied with 8 pre-installed have listings for driver for 7 on the site eg HP Dell etc.

Another consideration and as mentioned on the other topic where you posted is the comment by my good colleague TerryNet


> There are also lots of tutorials available online, including the sticky thread Taming the Windows 8 DESKTOP GUI. I think that it is much easier to use Windows 8 the same way I do Windows 7 (with minor adjustments) than to "go back" to Windows 7 on a PC that has Windows 8 pre-installed.


and indeed there is also the question of warrantry service agreements, many suppliers will refuse to help you until you are back as it was sold eg Windows 8.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks very much for all the info, Macboatmaster! My biggest hurdle at the moment is hardware upon which to do the backups you so properly advise. And probably not the budget to resolve that issue either. But I'll keep trying. I'd like to be able to use W7 until all my stuff that doesn't work on W8 gets upgraded to work on W8, then I'll probably go back to W8 permanently someday. Maybe. There are still lots of things I don't like about W8 but perhaps some or all of them are due to my not yet being aware of the solutions. Thanks again!


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

OK
Please post the make and full model of the computer 
Also was 8 pre-installed and what if any discs did you receive with the computer and what if any discs have you made that were recommended in the user manual

When you post this info, we may be able to then make some definite progress

This article I wrote, when so many people wanted to go back to 7 may help
http://forums.techguy.org/8639602-post9.html

but at the risk of repeating what I have said before - 8 is not all that bad and going back to 7 is not the best way in my opinion.

Dual boot is possible but 8 pre installed and then installing 7 is harder than 7 installed first and then installing 8

http://winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-tip-dualboot-windows-7-144111

The newer OS should always be installed AFTER the older system

The "why" behind this logic is likewise simple: Each version of Windows comes with a new version of the Windows boot loader. And while newer versions of the Windows boot loader understand older versions, the reverse is not true. So while it's technically possible to install Windows 7 on a PC _after_ Windows 8, you will need to then manually change settings of windows boot manager to restore your ability to boot into the newer OS


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

OK, my computer is an ASUS CM1855 with AMD FX-8120 (4 core, hyper-threaded) processor, 8G memory and 1tb hard drive. 
W8 64 bit was pre-installed and I received no disks with it. I have
a recovery "drive" on a USB memory stick. By the way, part of the reason I want to dual boot 7 and 
8 is, I thought it would be fun and easy. Way back in the 90's I dual booted one of my computers
with N.T. 4.0 server and workstation. No particular reason except that I felt like it. I thought 
it would be fun, and it was; fun and easy, no problems. Also, when I bought this computer, in
Jan. '13, I'd heard a lot of bad stuff about 8 and asked about getting 7 instead of 8. I was told this was
not an option, so I figured, what the heck, I'll go ahead anyway. I quite soon regretted that decision.
I think 8 may be great for smart phones and tablets, but not for a computer that I want to use.
OK, now I am reading and studying the info at the two links in your latest post to either develop my plan
of attack, or abandon the whole effort. It's not the end of the world if I have to stay with 8, 
but to use my stuff that doesn't work on 8 I have to borrow my wife's computer, which is an inconvenience to both of us.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

While you're planning let me throw some easier alternatives at you ...

If you have Windows 8 Pro you can use Hyper-V to run Windows 7 (or most anything else) in a virtual machine. I wasn't happy with the results when I tried this but I think it is because I have a very low end (Lenovo) PC.

You can also use another free virtual machine application. I use VirtualBox  and have XP, Vista and Windows 7 installed on virtual machines on one of my Windows 8 systems. VMWare Player is said to be a better free choice, but I have been sufficiently satisfied with the the app I tried first.

These virtual machines also give you a nice way to try new things--like a Linux distribution or the next Windows "improvement."

With that said, some things won't work in a virtual machine--at least not VirtualBox. For example, while I can usually access a USB flash drive I cannot directly access a USB wireless adapter.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey, thanks for the tip, Terrynet. I'd vaguely thought about that option but wasn't aware that there were free versions of VM software. I will definitely check out the 2 products you mentioned. (I'm cheap, so free always sounds good to me!). 

So do you just install the vm software, then define a virtual machine, then install (Windows 7 or whatever) in the virtual machine just like you would in a real machine?

And do you think that my Samsung New PC Studio program would work in a virtual W7 on real W8? The program works fine on my wife's W7 but crashes at start-up on my W8 box. I've tried W7 compatibility, exact same results (crash).


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Wow! Installed VMware Player, then installed W7 in a virtual machine. It's looking fantastic. I think it was easier to install 7 in a virtual machine than in a real one. It hasn't solved my problem running PC Studio so I'll continue to try to dual boot 7 and 8 like I originally intended. Meantime I'll have a lot of fun with VMware Player. Each approach seems to have its benefits. Now I'm bummed out because I can't find my XP disc. I must have given it away when I gave my old XP computer away. It'd be so cool to get XP back for some of the things M.S. took away, like a fantastic movie maker program. But I still have my NT 4.0 disc! Maybe I'll run an NT 4.0 vm.

Terrynet, thanks for the tip. Your post said Player was the presumed better choice so I went with it. Hugely satisfied so far.

Macboatmaster, thanks also for all your help. I'm continuing to study the stuff you pointed out to me and I will almost certainly try to dual boot 7 and 8 the way I originally planned.


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

Very pleased for you
I have never used a Virtual machine setup.
My good colleague* TerrryNet* has one up on me there.

Good luck with it


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

> like a fantastic movie maker program.


I wouldn't call it fantastic, and don't know how it compares to XP's, but Windows Live Movie Maker, a part of Windows Live Essentials, isn't too bad. I use it in Windows 7 and it probably is fine for Windows 8. I don't much care for the other parts of Windows Live Essentials, so if you try that download link be sure to pick and choose the parts you actually want when you run the setup program.

I don't know why the PC Studio is crashing in Windows 8. Can you contact Samsung by email or chat (or any other way) to ask for advice?


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

This version claims to be Windows 8 compatible.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Well, PC Studio crashes in my W7 virtual machine but it's a different crash than on W8. Looked in the event logs
but the error messages are over my head. So I'll still keep working on dual booting 7 and 8. The idea of 
VM for a PC has been a wish of mine for years but until I read Terrynets post I didn't know there were 
free ones. I was a mainframe VM system programmer for more than 20 years and loved every minute of it.
I still think that VM was the greatest mainframe operating system ever (yes, in the mainframe world VM
is an operating system and doesn't need an operating system upon which to run) and having VM for PC
is super neat! I love it.

I had contacted Samsung but got nowhere, they seem to have no interest in updating PC Studio for W8.

Regarding Windows Movie Maker on XP, it was great. Easy to use, all kinds of neat features. I used to connect my camcorder to my computer, copy the movie to the computer, then edit it to my heart's content. Then I could burn the 
finished movie to DVD, all within Movie Maker. But it didn't work on W7 and the later versions were castrated by M. S. They took out the video capture, which is a show-stopper for me. I tried most if not all the later versions but one generated garbage, another pegged my CPU 100% busy for several hours and created trash. None of them did me any good.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

OK, sorry to be so dense but all the stuff I've been studying about dual booting W7 on a W8 system seem to call for deleting all the partitions on the hard drive then installing W7. Not sure what I'm missing or if I'm reading the wrong forums. 

What I'd like to know is if I install W7 Home Premium 64 bit in a spare partition on my W8 computer, will the W7 install recognize the GPT disk, UEFI and Windows Boot Manager and install correctly? Or will it mess up the disk or the boot manager or something else. That is, assuming I've disabled secure boot, enabled CSM, and turned off Windows Fast Boot?


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

I think that your best course is to absorb and follow posts # 7 and # 9 and the linked articles/threads.

Whenever a Windows system is installed it will set up a multi-boot for, and only for, Windows versions up to and including itself. It will not acknowledge the existence of any non-Windows OS nor of any later Windows versions. Whether "fixing" this after the fact is any harder with Windows 8 and GPT disks I do not know.


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## Crazy10 (May 12, 2012)

Not sure about Windows 8, but look at this.


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## remarkrp (Jan 15, 2008)

Many thanks to Macboatmaster and Terrynet! I still may dual boot 7 and 8 but until I'm comfortable with backup _and restore/recover_ procedures I'll hold off on that and use VMs to practice and experiment.


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