# Microsoft Confirms Problem In Patch For Windows 98, Me



## jd_957 (Dec 30, 2004)

March 28, 2005 (12:30 PM EST)

Microsoft Confirms Problem In Patch For Windows 98, Me

By TechWeb News

Microsoft posted a message late Friday night to the support discussion groups for Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows Me acknowledging a problem for users of those OSes who installed a January 2005 patch. 
"Microsoft has received reports about issues with KB891711 on Windows 98, Windows 98 SE and Windows ME," wrote Jerry Bryant for the Microsoft Security Response Center (MCSE). "At this point, we have been able to confirm these reports and are currently working on a resolution."

According to other posters on the discussion groups, the problem is one of long standing, involves Internet Explorer, and can cause the machine to hang or dramatically slow down after the patch is applied.

While Microsoft didn't explicitly tell users to roll back the patch, the message did continue with, "Please note that by uninstalling the current update, the machine will return to a vulnerable state. At this point, we are currently not aware of customers being exploited by way of the vulnerability fixed in MS05-002 on Windows 98, Windows 98 SE and Windows ME."

Users who need additional assistance can call Microsoft at 866-727-2338 -- the company's PCSAFETY line -- for free help with any security update.

http://www.techweb.com/wire/security/159907205


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Guess I'd rather have a potentially vulnerable computer (since there vulnerability has been there all along with not problems), than one that doesn't work at all (although that is kind of a fix ;-).


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## jd_957 (Dec 30, 2004)

just posting info i thought someone could use. like anything from microsoft makes sense.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Absolutely and glad you did. That update has been causing me all kinds of headaches.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks for posting the confirmation, jd 

Maybe this can be stickied too.


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## anglin_fool (Oct 2, 2001)

hmmmm, thats when I started having problems with IE. I just reboot, sometimes several times, until I can get on the Internet.

Any word as to what to do?


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

It would be nice if Microsoft could give a clear answer about this patch. I actually just called that number and after being on hold for 30 minutes, I got the most clueless person trying to assist me. 

I've disabled it from Startup, I have not uninstalled it. 
Through contact with MS through e-mail, they said it was okay to do that.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

I've just been booting to safe mode, running MSCONFIG and taking it out of startup. Most times I can't even boot to normal mode to do this.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Does it constantly recheck itself? 

You should have heard this guy on the phone. He was in a whole other world. He didn't know what patch I was talking about. I had to keep repeating things over and over. And his answer to everything was "oh...we'll get to that later."


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

It hasn't rechecked itself on the twenty or so I've done so far.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I used WinPatrol to disable it and now it is not even showing up in MSCONFIG.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I just disabled in msconfig and it hasn't re-enabled itself. 

I didn't see any problems in the short period between installing and disabling it (24 hours?), but I would like to hear some explanation a) as to why this 'patch' has to run like a separate program, and b) why, if this exploit is a real risk, this patch was issued for 9x two months after 2K and XP got it?.

Whatever, I am content to rely on the other security I have in place and will not be reactivating this patch!


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## johnni (Dec 16, 2003)

I shall be condemned for saying this but I have never done ME updates and everything is as it was after installing it and no problems. I rely fully on my Avast!, Kerio firewall etc. and all continues bug-free and working well.

There are so many reports in these forums about 'unable to update' and 'problems after update' that I am glad to stand aside.

johnni


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

jd_957 said:


> March 28, 2005 (12:30 PM EST)
> 
> Microsoft Confirms Problem In Patch For Windows 98, Me
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up!


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## hotskates (Jan 11, 2002)

I deleted it last week using add/remove and its totally gone. 

My computer was acting so weird after the download(for my home pc which runs Windows ME) I was checking everything.... running spybot, adaware, etc............finally I thought would try Dr. Watson which I often forget exists. It advised me of a problem with KB891711 and I think it advised deletion, which I did. Now everything on my computer is back to normal. I was pretty surprised that Microsoft would have released the update with so many problems.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

MS patches that cause problems, while not an everyday occurrence, are not that rare either!


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

TOGG said:


> MS patches that cause problems, while not an everyday occurrence, are not that rare either!


Very true!


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## hotskates (Jan 11, 2002)

I've never had a problem ever (on my home computer -windows ME) with microsoft updates in the past 5 years?? Thats why this one surprised me TOGG. 

After hearing about all the windows XP problems with Service Pack 1, I have decided to wait on the installation of sp1 on my laptop which runs on XP. I am however, downloading all of the other optional updates for XP.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

hotskates,

I accept that the majority of users probably don't have problems with most patches most of the time (and I was taking a cheap shot at MS).

The problem is, that if only 1% of patches go wrong some of the time, that still represents lots of unhappy users who will post details of their problems/complaints for all to see!


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## richard.m (Mar 30, 2005)

I cannot open my operating system (Windows 98 SE) even in safe mode it keeps shutting off. When I tried a step by step confirmation start, I get an unusal entry, which I've listed below prior to the computer shutting itself off.

C:\ e h i k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z { ¦ } ~ ^ &#962; &#971; é 
â ä à å &#962; ê ë è ï
press any key to continue


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Richard, your problem does not belong in this thread. Post a new topic for it.

It's possible you have file system damage, but in the meantime, boot to a command prompt and at the c: prompt enter:

*scanreg /restore*

Use your arrow keys to select a started registry dated before the problem. Note the dates and if they are very old, cancel out.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Hey, thanks, I think. 

I just ran Hijack this and noticed a new line (KB891711.exe) in startup so I came over here to the forum to see if anybody knew exactly what it was. So, can I just disable it out of start-up like Bob Cerrelli did or should I uninstall ( remove ) the whole patch if it's listed in my ADD/REMOVE in Control panel like someone else did? 

I noticed my pc has really slowed down and also had problems sometimes getting on the net and keeping a connection up but had run ( after up dating all of them) AVG, Lavasoft Adaware,CW Shredder, & Spybot S& D and they all came up clean. So then I ran HiJackThis to look for anything new. Only saw two things and this is one of them.

Thanks!!

But which is the best to do? Just disable it using msconfig from the Win Startup? Or uninstall it completely? hmmm....what to do, what to do.......


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Only you can decide!

The MS statement quoted by bassetman sits neatly on the fence by acknowledging the problems that the patch has caused to some users but is reported to continue as follows;

"Please note that by uninstalling the current update, the machine will return to a vulnerable state. At this point, we are currently not aware of customers being exploited by way of the vulnerability fixed in MS05-002 on Windows 98, Windows 98 SE and Windows ME." 

Users who need additional assistance can call Microsoft at 866-727-2338 -- the company's PCSAFETY line -- for free help with any security update. "

I have no idea how 'vulnerable' the vulnerable state is and, though the patch didn't cause me any problems, I disabled it in startup but haven't yet uninstalled it.

I don't use IE, chat rooms or instant messaging and don't do file sharing or anything similar but I do have the 'usual' security, plus an anti trojan, so I personally am willing to take my chances and leave it disabled.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Thanks! I think I'll just try disabling it first and see how that goes. I'm not good at making sudden decisions, without worry warting over the "what if's". I don't use AIM but do have ICQ but haven't used it in more than 6 months. I don't use chat rooms, either but do use IE because Firefox doesn't work well on my machine. Mea Culpa on the naughty unmentionable one, however I'm a taker, not a giver. The ap I use does not require I reciprocate, if you know what I mean,has no ad or spyware, and I block all my ports, anyway, and watch the access log attempts in my firewall. *Cough Cough*. I refuse,out of respect for this site, to share anymore info here...pun intended. 

Anyway, I have enough security to choke a horse. (another pun harhar....I'm killing me!) )

Thanks.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Typically I just run MSCONFIG and remove it from startup. This has always solved any problems it created. 

The main reason is because I haven't fully tested what happens if you uninstall the "update". Perhaps the next time you do one, it will get reinstalled and the problem will start all over again.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Sounds good to me, Bob. Thanks!


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

monkeymoon,

Have you ever tried Opera? If not give it a try and you might be pleasantly surprised.

It was the first 'alternative' browser I tried and I liked it so much I paid to register it. Even if you don't register it, the adverts it displays are quite small and, IMHO, less distracting than the ones you get here if you haven't donated; http://www.opera.com/products/

I'm currently using the latest in the 7.0 series and also have a copy of 8.0 Beta. When I first got it I chose to have Sun Java as well, which increases the d/l from 3.5 to about 16MB. I don't really know what difference it makes to performance but it seemed like a good idea at the time!

I do have the latest Firefox as well but I somehow never 'took' to it and so don't use it much.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Hey, Togg! Thanks, that's an idea I might try. I used to have Opera ( along with Netscape, IE, Neoplanet, Firefox and a couple others ) but deleted it when I started getting low on hard drive space. I had to have multiple browsers to check how my own site and others displayed if I changed the coding. ( html or scripts,etc.) Since I usually only really used Netscape or IE to surf the web, I kept them and uninstalled the others since I seldom code any sites now. 

If it's not a resource hog ( I have an older, slow pc) and isn't huge in file size, it might be a good idea for me to try Opera again. Thanks!


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

The definition of 'old and slow' is obviously relative but I'm using an AMD K6 2 450Mhz CPU, 128 MB RAM and a 12GB HDD, so I think that qualifies my computer (I'm also old and slow so we're well matched!).

I do use Registry and general file cleaners all the time and I still have 6GB to spare on my HDD. As far as I am aware, the biggest resource hog I had was NAV but I got rid of that and now use NOD32 instead.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

My machine is almost 9 years old. How's this?

AMD K6 tm w
32 MB RAM
3 GIG Hard Drive ( 279 mb free )
I think I have 233mhz, but might only be 166mhz ( heehee......I don't want to check as it always makes me cry )

Wouldn't you cry too if it happened to you?

Nevermind. That's a line from an old Leslie Gore song.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

My comp (circa 1997) was originally like yours but I had a massive upgrade in 2000 to the present, lightning fast, setup!

Just read about yet more IE/OE exploits so it looks as though you will have to try Opera or get Firefox working better.

I remember that Leslie/Lesley? Gore song very well as I was already quite grown up when it came out.


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Firefox ( the newest version ) takes almost 3 full minutes to load. ( I kid you not ) I also get "unable to connect to google" when I do a search. On some sites, it freezes completely if I click on an external link,and it's not compatible with several of my older programs ( Neowatch, Roboform ).I tried uninstalling it and then reinstalling it (Firefox ) and tweaked it to hell and back according to user's suggestions, and added plugins. I gave up. It just doesn't work well with my computer. I probably will try Opera. For more than 7 years I used Netscape and never did much like IE but use it now anyway.....*sigh*

Anyway, I think we inadvertantly sabbotaged this thread. Didn't mean to ramble. I mispelled that word, too, but after thinking how pathetic my pc is, now I'm too depressed to check it.

Sorry. Thanks for your suggestions, though. And your sympathy.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

You're right, we have sidetracked this thread (although the new exploits are sort of relevant;http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1781171,00.asp) but I'll shut up now.


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

TOGG said:


> You're right, we have sidetracked this thread (although the new exploits are sort of relevant;http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1781171,00.asp) but I'll shut up now.


A sidetracked TSG thread?  That's unheard of!


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Hold it down bassetman!

Nobody noticed until you mentioned it. ( Did anybody notice the hint of desperation in pointless posts from someone 40 away from Distinguished status?. Just my luck if the baseline is reset to 2500 or 3000!)


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

You really need to get a new PC monkeymoon. Firefox or even the newer Netscape needs more then your PC is made for and you never said what you video card is but guessing it is maybe only 1 or 2 MB so that is also slowing you down.
Even a cheap $400.00 PC will do sooooooo much more then what you have not that I bet cost you over $2000.00 back then.


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## buckaroo (Mar 25, 2001)

hewee said:


> You really need to get a new PC monkeymoon.


I second that emotion! (Smokey Robinson and the Miracles).


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea you can't do much with a old PC like that buckaroo.

Smokey Robinson

http://ra.soulwalking.co.uk:8080/ramgen/~bwalktaa/Old_Fashioned_Smokey.rm

http://ra.soulwalking.co.uk:8080/ramgen/~bwalktaa/Smokey.rm

http://ra.soulwalking.co.uk:8080/ramgen/~bwalktaa/Tell_Me_Smokey.rm


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Togg, I'll shut up too, however, I have to add that absolutely everything you and I said was indeed intelligent, interesting, enlightening, and most of all......pithy.

As for you other guys.....as much as I would love a new (yes, even a cheap NEW) pc, sadly, those nasty little necessities of life must be taken care of first. You know, rent, power, heat, water, and food ( me do likes me chow ). 

I will tell you the same thing I told my brother when he fussed at me for driving my old tank like '67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme a few years ago and asked why I didn't buy a new gun metal PT Crusiser which is my favorite car and would be a lot easier on gas. I told him that it would be nice to eat lobster instead of Oscar Meyer Bologna or livermush, and it would seem lovely to lie down at night with Jimmy Smits instead of my x-boyfriend who was a quadriplegic drug-dealer and looked vaguely like a moth eaten Don Henley. and it would be great to drive a BMW and wear Bruno Magli. But I'm realistic, if nothing else. You takes what you got and you trys to be content, if not exactly thrilled. 

Donations are gladly accepted towards the purchase of a new pc, if you're offering, but please don't respond like people did when I said on my old web site that I accepted donations of dough or other interesting stuff...DO NOT send me any tater chips that look like Elvis or Cilla. I'm all out of bean dip. 

Cash. No personal checks or food stamps. I'll even let ya'll help me pick out my new machine. I'm not too picky. Faster than a speeding bullet. HUGE Flat LCD screen monitor.Top of the line sound card and surround sound speakers. 80 GIG Hard Drive. You know, just standard stuff. 

And no, I only paid $999.00 at Wally World for this great Compaq chic nicotine colored computer I have now, back in 1997.

I did, however, once pay $2200.00 for an IBM back in 1990. Top of the line.....Windows 3.0........2 megs of ram. ( and I added one more!! ) 210 mg Hard drive. 16 big old colors!!!! Came with an ultra fancy DOT MATRIX printer, too! Yowser!! 

Okay, I'm done.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Well there's no point in being modest when you're good, so I am forced to agree with the sentiments expressed in your first paragraph!!

If I had the cash for a new computer, none of it would be going to enrich B. Gates. I would have a Mac and/or lessons in using Linux (unfortunately, I think I'm to old a dog to learn new tricks!).


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

You're never too old to learn anything,especially if you're intelligent to begin with. My problem is that I have difficulty learning things I "need" to learn or "have" to learn. I'm a quick study but I have to WANT to learn something and really be interested in something, even delighted with it, to be able to learn it quickly and well.

*sigh" Too bad all my jobs aren't as interesting or delightful as my hobbies. 

I'm learning Perl ( trying to anyway) now. I taught myself to operate a pc, with no lessons or classes, how to do a little basic programming, html code and java scripts. Evidently Perl and cgi coding isn't as much fun or I've lost interest as I seem to be slower learning them ( mostly understanding it and retaining what I've learned ). Since I closed my web site, I sorta secretly feel "what's the point?",so maybe that's the major problem. 

I think you wouldn't have any trouble learning Linux. Especially, as you're intelligent and also, the big thing is a genuine INTEREST and enjoyment of something. Do you really WANT to learn it cause you're interested and excited about it OR do you just think you "should" or "need" to?????

THAT is the question.

If it EXCITES you.....go for it. Excitement brings back CONFIDENCE......something that we seem to lose as we get older. 

heehee...I sound like the "Liittle Engine That Could", don't I?


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

And Oooooh...Buckaroo..I forgot how much I loved that song ( I Second That Emotion). I think I'll play it right now!!


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

Oh...uh.....what was the original subject of this thread....yeah...Problem in Microsoft Patch.

Sorry. Carry On, folks.


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## 8nout (Aug 18, 1999)

WinME....Installed this update...now I boot to desk top and curser moves but will not click on anything, tried to boot from cd...no go, tried start-up disk...no go. It just boots to the desk top and then nothing works. Help?

new info: got the thing to boot to DOS, ran scanreg.exe and restored to previous startup settings. Now it boots to desktop, can get online, most things seem to work but cannot open control panel...It gives # of items but no icons. Now what??


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## 8nout (Aug 18, 1999)

Gave up! re-formatted...now looking for alternate browser...


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

8nout said:


> Gave up! re-formatted...now looking for alternate browser...


I have Opera, and I hear many like Firefox!


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Have to put in a vote for Opera. I liked it so much after trying it that I paid to register it, but even if you don't, the advert it displays is not very distracting.

I also have Firefox, but just prefer to use Opera. If you do stop using IE, you need to ensure that it's leakiest features are disabled. Have a look at this long, but useful, article;https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ehowes/www/btw/ie/ie-opts.htm


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

The problem with the patch has nothing to do with which browser you use or if you even use a browser at all.

There are a lot of instability issues after that particular patch is installed. Even had a few computers that would just lock up after doing nothing.

What I've been doing so far is to get the updates, run MSCONFIG / Startup and remove it from the list, and then rebooting.

This way the update doesn't get put back on again and it also doesn't start automatically.


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## nthe10ring (Aug 1, 2004)

After reading this, i checked my updates and noticed i have this patch installed, my system seemed to have been running ok with it. I have had a few problems but nothing major, and really dont know what to attribute it to. I just went into startup and unchecked it now,, computer seemed a bit faster, but hard to tell. Ill check back here later to see whats going on with this patch or if MS issues a new or updated one.

nthe10ring


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I've just got this months Critical Update for IE6 SP1, and the WU site offered me KB891711 again!

Apparently, it's a revised version;http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Security/bulletin/ms05-002.mspx Who wants to be the guinea pig?

The first one didn't give me any problems before I stopped it loading, but I'm still not inclined to bother with the newer one.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Did you uninstall it the first time or just take it out of startup?

Before you reboot, just run MSCONFIG and uncheck it from starting the next time.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I just have it disabled in startup.

If I do decide to try the new version, I will uninstall the old one first (but I'll wait for the feedback for some time before I try it, if I do!!).


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Is it a new version of the patch or the same patch again?

What is it that references it being a new version?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

> Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-002
> Vulnerability in Cursor and Icon Format Handling Could Allow Remote Code Execution (891711)
> 
> Issued: January 11, 2005
> ...


He hee Caveats: None
Wonder what it said for the last version of KB891711 update. 

I am waiting for one of you out there to test this for me.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

There's got to be somebody with a test machine that feels lucky!!


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

TOGG said:


> There's got to be somebody with a test machine that feels lucky!!


Let's get Mikey


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

I went ahead and downloaded it.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

How did you install it? See my post above chesee.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey Harry,

Well when that patch first came out, I never did have any problems with it. But it annoyed me that it was always running. So the only thing I did was uncheck it from MSCONFIG.

Now since this new patch has been released, I went to Add/Remove Programs and uninstalled the entry for KB891711. 
I rebooted after that to make sure it was gone from the list.
Then I did the Windows Update and downloaded the 2 critical patches listed, rebooted again.
KB891711 wasn't running, but it is checked in MSCONFIG. So I have left it there. I have not experienced any issues yet.


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## axis77 (Aug 31, 2004)

have you guys seen microsofts updates from 04.12.05, there is the infamous "kb891711" updated version 2.0, it says that it did cause problems on certain pc's and would cause them to reboot unexpectedly, and they cleared it out of the background services, well you cant see it running no more.. Personally I never had this problem when I installed the original 891711.


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## anglin_fool (Oct 2, 2001)

I had the "kb91711" check-marked in the startup group. My PC would go through a series of hangups caused when I clicked on IE, even windows explorer. I unchecked it after 2 weeks. The problem has not been seen since. I think I'll let someone else be the Guinea Pig on this "update".


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

anglin_fool said:


> I had the "kb91711" check-marked in the startup group. My PC would go through a series of hangups caused when I clicked on IE, even windows explorer. I unchecked it after 2 weeks. The problem has not been seen since. I think I'll let someone else be the Guinea Pig on this "update".


I done beta testing for M$!


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Thanks chesse


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Welcome Harry


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

bassetman said:


> I done beta testing for M$!


Don't we all?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

bassetman said:


> I done beta testing for M$!


So you don't use MS windows at all then.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Well I had KB891711 disabled by WinPatrol. When I disabled it it took it out of the MSCONFIG list.

I uninstalled KB891711 and then rebooted. 
Got the new KB891711 and one other and rebooted. 

So lets see what happens.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Hope it works well for you, Harry!


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## anglin_fool (Oct 2, 2001)

Keep me posted Harry!


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

So far I have had no problems with this patch.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

All well so far but it has not been that long.
But when you do a CAD to see what is running it does not show it running like it did before.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

True but if you run a scan with Hijack This it shows up as a running process as well as the 04 entry on Startup.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea I know it showes up there. So far all seems ok. Knock on wood.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

:up:


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## bjohn (Jun 6, 2004)

I had the KB891711 throughout my pc which apparently disabled my MS Word , I kept getting prompts that read my systems resources were too low, which in fact they shouldn't have been. Hours later speaking with MS-India C.S. Dept. I eneded up rebooting an ME start up disk from bootdisk.com. It appears to have enabled my MS Word, but now I need to restore everything I was told to uncheck or disable and re-install the newer versions of IE and Outlook Express, but I am not getting any promised return phone calls or emails from MS. I'd like to puch Bill Gates in the face. All ME buyers should have been given XP for free, as a product recall.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I'm guessing you had more serious problems since reinstalling Windows fresh fixed the Word problem


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

I have been getting these two errors recently when I open Word. The first error on opening and the second on closing.
Is this a sign of something serious? 

Oops, I now see they are the same error!


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307410/


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

Thanks, it did start when I added Adobe pdf I bet!


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## bassetman (Jun 7, 2001)

Cool, method 2 did the trick! 

Thanks!


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## nthe10ring (Aug 1, 2004)

A while back, right about the time the time changed i noticed that my computer loaded really slow, the desktop icons would take forever, one a time. I posted my problem in another thread and made the changes to the registry to increase max icons to larger limit, seemed to cure that problem. Im retropsect i realize that I had downoaded these patches from MS, and thats when the problem started.
I have disables the patch in start up, but still notice an overall decrease in performance of my system. I also notice that now at bootup and power down that it clicks my floppy drive,which it never did before.
I have Go Back on my computer, was wondering if it would be beneficial to go back to an established safe point and revert my hardrive to that point. Would love to hear from anyone else that might have done this, and what the outcome was.

thanks
nthe10ring


Gateway Performance 1000
1 GIG Pent III
384 Megs Ram
Windows ME
Roadrunner with AOL 9.0 SE


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

For the floppy drive clicking...look for a program running that scans all drives....virus scanner perhaps?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

If your computer is running slow, that is a common indication that you need to download a good Spyware and Trojan Removal program.

Spybot Search and Destroy:
http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=spybotsda

SpySweeper:
http://www.webroot.com/wb/products/spysweeper/index.php
This will also protect your home page from being hijacked.

Ad-Aware:
http://www.lavasoft.de/

With any of the above three programs, just like with Anti-Virus software, should have the latest updates installed before doing a scan.

CWShredder:
http://www.spywareinfo.com/downloads/tools/CWShredder.exe

KazaaBeGone
http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/files/kazaabegone.zip

Programs that can help prevent getting infected:

Spyware Blaster
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html

Spyware Guard
http://www.wilderssecurity.net/spywareguard.html

As far as the floppy drive being accessed during bootup or shutdown:

Open 'System Properties' by 
right clicking 'My Computer' / 'Properties' from the menu. 
Click the 'Performance' tab then the 'File System' tab. 
Click the 'Floppy Disk' tab 
Make sure 'Search for new floppy disk' is not selected.

Double check that there are no recent documents that were loaded or saved to the A: drive.


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## alsia3 (Jun 4, 2004)

Hi,

My computer has not been shutting down lately and I was wondering if this problematic patch is to blame or is that a sign of a virus?

I think I removed the patch today. I have posted my hijack log on the security forum if anyone is interested in seeing it.

Thanks.


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## bjohn (Jun 6, 2004)

Microsoft told me this patch was intended for an XP updtae, but inadvertently was sent out for 98 & ME by mistake.


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## bjohn (Jun 6, 2004)

why don't monkeymoon and togg get a room? What does all that BS have to do with this forum?


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## dav10 (Dec 19, 2004)

if MS know there is a problem with KB891711 ,when i do a update on my wifes ME set-up,Why is this patch still being put out as a up-date EDITED FOR LANGUAGE or what..........



Edited by AcaCandy for language content


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## dav10 (Dec 19, 2004)

Cheeseball81 said:


> It would be nice if Microsoft could give a clear answer about this patch. I actually just called that number and after being on hold for 30 minutes, I got the most clueless person trying to assist me.
> 
> I've disabled it from Startup, I have not uninstalled it.
> Through contact with MS through e-mail, they said it was okay to do that.


M$ Told me to get in-touch with the people that made my pc (pass the problem on)


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## bjohn (Jun 6, 2004)

My thoughts exactly. Why don't they? Why is there no mention of this goof on their website even? I do notice now, if you do a search on KB891711 in their Knowlege Based Search, the update no longer mentions being applicaple for windows 98 or ME.
Being on hold and getting transferred to 6 people before finding one who is knowledgable, seems to be the standard method of operation for MS. Here is a synopsis of my experience with this dilema:
______________________________________________________________________

Tues. April 12,2005 downloaded Microsfot Critical Update KB891711
Microsoft Word would not open afterwards. Received a prompt indicating:

The System is dangerously low in resources terminate the following application? Microsoft Word (not responding).

A few times afterwards Id get this:
Winword caused an invalid page fault in module [email protected]:3096d03b

4/19/05;
866-727-2338, Neil sent me to the Support professional Dept.Gagan gave me case# SRX050418604800. She had me to read off to her what is in my start up items: viastart runmsconfigwhat was there and what was checked . What was in my Add/Remove Programs: via.start.settings.control panel. Probably in order to determine if I had spyware that was responsible for my dilemma. She had me disable several items several times and reboot several times, all to no avail.

Finally she told me to download an ME start up disk, from WWW.Bootdisk.com {Windows ME OEM} and she would call or email back.
Never did call back or email with further instructions, so I put the disk in my pc and rebooted. 
Whalla, now my MS Word works.
My Outlook Express and Internet Explorer home page looked strange, as they were both the older 5.5 versions.
And could not click on my favorites or links on an email. Nothing would happen unless I typed an URL directly.

4/20/05; called MS and got transferred several times to no avail. Finally was told to go to www.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?sci=kb:en-us:30616 and or call the Senior ME advisor @ 800-936-5700, in which recordings played and mentioned a credit card.

Antwonne at my work told me I needed to go to Microsoft web site and download the latest 6.0 version in order to restore the 3rd party web feature.

Whalla, that worked. PC seems to be faster than ever now.

4/21/05;MS Anik, called me at 10PM intending on following up where Gagan left off.
He was very apologetic and said if my PC isnt working properly to call him or his Manager-Mike , After explaining the highly unlikeliness that I would ever be able to return a call to him with the original MS phone number, he gave me his# . I never called because my PC seems to be fixed and working better than ever now.


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## dav10 (Dec 19, 2004)

thx for the input on-this situation....


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## monkeymoon (Jan 21, 2005)

bjohn said:


> why don't monkeymoon and togg get a room? What does all that BS have to do with this forum?


You posted this on May 2nd. I just now saw it and wondered why a few posts we made back in APRIL, more than a month ago, bothered you so badly. We both apologized for getting a little off the thread subject. What more did you want?

Frankly, I spend half my time on this forum skipping over posts that either are off the thread topic, general chatting between friendly members and posts that don't interest me. Why can't you just skip what you don't think is pertinent like everybody else does?

Your post sounded slightly suggestive to me and I resent the implication. If you don't want people who like each other talking in a thread, then start your own and head it "THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE-MY FRIENDS AND THOSE WHOM I ADMIRE OR AM IN AWE OF. DON'T COMMENT HERE UNLESS YOU HAVE PERMISSION. If you do that, I promise to stay clear of the thread.

To close....GET A GRIP!!!!!!! :down:


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

dav10 said:


> if MS know there is a problem with KB891711 ,when i do a update on my wifes ME set-up,Why is this patch still being put out as a up-date EDITED FOR LANGUAGE or what..........


I would suggest that you clean your language up and read the forum rules before posting again!  I've edited your post!


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

jd_957 said:


> March 28, 2005 (12:30 PM EST)
> 
> Microsoft Confirms Problem In Patch For Windows 98, Me
> 
> ...


I don't know if this patch is the problem, but just these last two days my puter has been hanging up with programs. I've run the standard Spy-bot, Adaware, Cleanup, CWShredder, got rid of DAP cos I thought it was the problem, but lordy! what a work out. What else could it be?


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

And I had the patch, KB891711! But now it's gone. How sweet it is!  :up:


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## MSM Hobbes (Apr 23, 2004)

xico, did you delete/uninstall the patch, or just uncheck via msconfig so that it would not be viable during start-up? I've just unchecked it, will see if that improves situation.

Security and vulnerability be darned to hades!!!


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

MSM Hobbes said:


> xico, did you delete/uninstall the patch, or just uncheck via msconfig so that it would not be viable during start-up? I've just unchecked it, will see if that improves situation.
> 
> Security and vulnerability be darned to hades!!!


No, MSM, I uninstalled it altogether!


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## canada#1 (Apr 6, 2005)

will try these options....I am a novice and am so frustrated since I put on these security patch's for windows 98. any other thoughts to help this prooblem


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

canada#1 said:


> will try these options....I am a novice and am so frustrated since I put on these security patch's for windows 98. any other thoughts to help this prooblem


This is how we learn. Every time we have a real problem, and we solve it eventually, we've learned something. The problems are lessons. Each time we come away a little wiser.

Good luck! :up:


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## 8nout (Aug 18, 1999)

I also just uninstalled the patch and had no problems since...


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## jaspo (May 17, 2005)

thank you so much looked and ye si had that one so i deleted it thanks heaps


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## bocabill (Jul 29, 2002)

Thank you all for your valuable input to my problem. I have deleted 
that MS patch 891711, and so far have not noted a change, but I feel
better with it off my system.
There are a couple of things I am trying and will let you'all know how
it turns out.
Thanks again....


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## aarhus2004 (Jan 10, 2004)

johnni said:


> I shall be condemned for saying this but I have never done ME updates and everything is as it was after installing it and no problems. I rely fully on my Avast!, Kerio firewall etc. and all continues bug-free and working well.
> 
> There are so many reports in these forums about 'unable to update' and 'problems after update' that I am glad to stand aside.
> 
> johnni


Not by me, you won't, johnni,

There are probably lots of others who will have experimented with this idea and have said zilch about doing so. Personally find your admission very gratifying. I am frankly astonished by the numbers of folk who get into all kinds of trouble on the internet regardless of all those updates.


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## anglin_fool (Oct 2, 2001)

This patch is still in the critical updates package for ME. Anyone try the newest version 2.0?


> *Why was this security bulletin updated on April 12, 2005?*
> 
> After the release of the MS05-002 security bulletin, Microsoft became aware of an issue affecting customers deploying the Windows 98, 98SE and ME security update. In most cases, the issue caused machines to unexpectedly restart.
> 
> ...


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

I got bitten once. I'm not going back for seconds, let me tell you!


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## citylights (Apr 29, 2004)

I have downloaded two security updates since Jan 05 re this problem and neither has stopped this happening:

"Microsoft Internet Explorer has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."


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## MSM Hobbes (Apr 23, 2004)

citylights, what version of Windows and IE are you using?

Have you tried FireFox, and if so, have you encountered any problems?


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## jkolm (Jun 10, 2005)

I have had the same problem, and will never trust Microsoft claims again. :down: 

I've disabled KB891711 in MSCONFIG (in the Autoexec tab) and now Explorer just freezes about 2/3 of the time (instead of 100%) and my machine runs properly about 4/5 of the time (instead of 1/5 of the time). 

I am done with "Microsoft Updates", clearly we're dealing with the bottom of the employability barrel. Their failure to apologise or to explain in their subsequent updates also tells me that they are not professional.

How, please, can I totally exterminate KB891711 from my machine so that it runs properly all the time?


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Let's see, that's one bad patch in how many? 

But if you disabled it and are still having problems, then it has nothing to do with the patch. Something else must be wrong with your computer.


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## jkolm (Jun 10, 2005)

What would you think of a surgeon who did one careless operation in "how many"?  

And then didn't help afterwards/took no responsibility/communicated nothing?  

Would you go back? Send your loved ones?  

Microsoft's incompetence has cost me THOUSANDS in lost productivity. I'm entitled to be annoyed.

So back to thread - KB891711.EXE is not the only problem - those who have looked in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711 will also have noticed Q891711.dll sitting there. Anybody know if this causes continuing problems? If there's a problem just deleting both KB891711.EXE *and* Q891711.dll ? If that helps?

KB891711.EXE is gone from my MSCONFIG Autoexec and doesn't show in Add/Remove Programs, I think I probably uninstalled it some time ago. (There are other "KB" files in my MSCONFIG Autoexec but not that one.)

Thanks!


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## citylights (Apr 29, 2004)

my theory is that Microsoft lost so many users to Firefox so quickly, before they could get a handle on the IE problem, that they made a tactical decision to keep letting users go over to Firefox and then at some point buy Firefox.

if you can't beat 'em buy 'em!

call me a cynic!


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

If you think the patch is a problem, uninstall it. 

Since the solution has been out for a while now, even from Microsoft, it is difficult to see why it would cost so much to remove, even if it did get installed. From the very first day it was pretty easy to figure out the cause of the problem. Just remove the patch.

Also, from not only the title of this thread but from the very first post, apparently MS did communicate information regarding the problem. Just noticed this from doing a little reading not much farther down the posts.

Now if you are still having problems after removing it, it's not the patch.


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## iaavagent (Jan 11, 2004)

Another thought.
If the good KB is designed to protect you against a vunerability and you disabled it or removed it, then what? 

I've noticed some who review HTJ logs advise to have the KB891711 fixed, removed in add/remove or disabled in msconfig,etc., without first knowing if it's the good or bad one. Well if one updates at MS, and it has been removed from their system then they will again have to decide if they want the patch.

You have other patches that are on your system protecting against bad things, then why not the good KB891711.

The first time someone experiences the bad because they were advised here to remove/disable it, and it was the GOOD one, guess who gets blamed?

Some come to this site, trust and do whatever without question. No they shouldn't in some cases, but they do! 

Right or wrong above is just MHO! and we all have those.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

As far as I know, the updated patch has no problems. It was only the original one. So if you have that one, you should either uninstall or disable it.


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

They did update it then? I'm a little skitish about that one. I uninstalled it and had tons of problems from it, so I didn't try a reinstall. But I also just bought an XP, and I allowed Microsoft to do its thing, and everything went well.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Yes, they fixed it.

I am also going to unsticky this now. I think it's run it's course


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## xico (Jun 29, 2002)

Thanks, Candy!


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