# Google has a new OS



## ozziebeanie

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25751734-31037,00.html

dont know about this one


----------



## deandude1196

I do. (See here) Google has an OS that its releasing.


----------



## jaipr

Wow. Looking good. Google Chrome OS is probably the worst name you could ever give to an OS, though, even if it is only a work in progress. I might be getting a netbook soon, so it's an open option. Certainly lighter than Vista, lol.


----------



## deandude1196

I like googles products, so when I get another laptop Ill probably go to get one of those.


----------



## ozziebeanie

Well I think anything is lighter than Vista, just trying to wrap my mine around that Google produced an OS, just not something you think of Google as a OS producer, well not me anyway, only related Google to searching the net, 

Got to admit I have steered away from their other products other than to use Google as my home page for searching, as I am real anal about keeping my IE page uncluttered, only have one add on which is a program I use, and refuse to use Google Chrome or tool bar, or any other tool bars.

I have seen some (when I have come to help someone with something) open up their internet page and they have so much crap on there it takes up half the page and there is not a lot left to see of the page that you searched for, and you have to scroll down just to see a little below the top of the page, where on mine you would not have to do that.


----------



## deandude1196

I like and use the google products. I especialy like google chrome. I agree with you ozziebeanie, you dont think of google as an os maker. BUT I think that there new os will be interesting to see and use. Personally I think that it will uprise really fast and be a great os.


----------



## ozziebeanie

Well I was looking at getting one of those tiny notebooks to keep in touch with family and friends when I do my trip to Canada, hopefully next year, maybe if it's a light and easy OS it might be better to have something like that on it. If it's able to run most communication programs like email, or chat programs or stuff like face book. 

Made an ID with face book did a profile added family and never used it since. Would love to see some feed back on here about the program when it comes out. Would like to know more before I get my little notebook I am planning on getting.

Then again I have seen Xp loaded on a very tiny phone/computer is only way I can describe it, I had to synchronise it with the engineers computer at work for his emails etc it had a little pen (plastic thing to click on stuff) tiny thing it was but most of it was screen.


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> I do. (See here) Google has an OS that its releasing.


Thanks for the link! :up:

It answered my first question that came to mind when I first heard about the Google Chrome OS:



> The software architecture is simple  Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel.


If they won't be using X for the windowing system, I wonder what they will be using instead.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> Well I was looking at getting one of those tiny notebooks to keep in touch with family and friends when I do my trip to Canada, hopefully next year, maybe if its a light and easy OS it might be better to have something like that on it. If its able to run most communication programs like email, or chat programs or stuff like face book.
> 
> Made an ID with face book did a profile added family and never used it since. Would love to see some feed back on here about the program when it comes out. Would like to know more before I get my little notebook I am planning on getting.
> 
> Then again I have seen Xp loaded on a very tiny phone/computer is only way I can describe it, I had to synchronise it with the engineers computer at work for his emails etc it had a little pen (plastic thing to click on stuff) tiny thing it was but most of it was screen.


I would let you know (as I am planning to purchase one) but the thing is that this thread might not be open that long. If it is I will try to update you on it.


----------



## deandude1196

tomdkat said:


> Thanks for the link! :up:
> 
> It answered my first question that came to mind when I first heard about the Google Chrome OS:
> 
> If they won't be using X for the windowing system, I wonder what they will be using instead.
> 
> Peace...


Your Welcome.

That is a good question. I think that they're going to make their own. I mean come on they have made a really popular search engine, working on a os, google reader, gmail, google talk... I think that they could come up with their own. They go from Google Search to Gmail to Reader and know to an os!! There really is a possibility of them creating their own.


----------



## ozziebeanie

I will sure look for any updates on this, would be good if you could post somewhere in this forum about that. Google Talk? have not heard of that one, when did that sneak in?

Thanks Tom and Dean


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> That is a good question. I think that they're going to make their own. I mean come on they have made a really popular search engine, working on a os, google reader, gmail, google talk... I think that they could come up with their own. They go from Google Search to Gmail to Reader and know to an os!! There really is a possibility of them creating their own.


The thing is, they aren't creating a new kernel from scratch but using a Linux kernel instead. It will probably be a modified kernel and who knows if their mods will be merged into the mainstream kernel source or not but they are starting with Linux.

In the case of their browser, it uses the same (at least as its base) rendering engine as Safari (Webkit).

I would imagine they would start with an existing alternative to X but I just don't know what that is. I would bet there's some obscure open-source X alternative they will start with unless they do start with X and trim most of the fat off it and add their own stuff to it.

In any event, it will be interesting to see what they actually come up with, in the end, and how it's received by the masses. 

Peace...


----------



## ozziebeanie

Sure will, that other link went into it a bit more than the one i found, i still love my xp though pitty they will not be updating it forever, but i guess we all have to move with the times.


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> I will sure look for any updates on this, would be good if you could post somewhere in this forum about that. Google Talk? have not heard of that one, when did that sneak in?
> 
> Thanks Tom and Dean


Not sure when, but here is a link to the page about it.


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> Sure will, that other link went into it a bit more than the one i found, i still love my xp though pitty they will not be updating it forever, but i guess we all have to move with the times.


Wasnt there something in the news saying Microsoft wont be updating XP anymore? Ill edit if I find anything.

I went looking and found some info on it.

Here is site 1. Not a great site on info but it just backs me up. (Earlier on)

I guess know they're going to keep it updated untill 2014 as seen here


----------



## deandude1196

tomdkat said:


> The thing is, they aren't creating a new kernel from scratch but using a Linux kernel instead. It will probably be a modified kernel and who knows if their mods will be merged into the mainstream kernel source or not but they are starting with Linux.
> 
> In the case of their browser, it uses the same (at least as its base) rendering engine as Safari (Webkit).
> 
> I would imagine they would start with an existing alternative to X but I just don't know what that is. I would bet there's some obscure open-source X alternative they will start with unless they do start with X and trim most of the fat off it and add their own stuff to it.
> 
> In any event, it will be interesting to see what they actually come up with, in the end, and how it's received by the masses.
> 
> Peace...


It will be VERY interesting to see what they do.

Im looking forward to seeing it.


----------



## ozziebeanie

Yes they are updating till 2014 which is why government departments here are not updating for at least another three years, I think some IT departments where waiting to see what would come out after Vista, also there are costs involved to use the classic tool bar for Office 2007 so as users can still get a large volume of work out while getting used to the new system, I think where I worked they will be going that way as it is cheaper than retraining 150 odd staff on how to use office again.


----------



## deandude1196

Quote:
Originally Posted by *ozziebeanie*  
_Sure will, that other link went into it a bit more than the one i found, i still love my xp though pitty they will not be updating it forever, but i guess we all have to move with the times._

Wasnt there something in the news saying Microsoft wont be updating XP anymore? Ill edit if I find anything.

I went looking and found some info on it.

Here is site 1. Not a great site on info but it just backs me up. (Earlier on)

I guess know they're going to keep it updated untill 2014 as seen here 
_____________________________________________________________

I found that out right as I was editing the post above I copied and pasted in this comment. I even got a link.

I was thinking and Google os will be out before 2014 so microsoft might not have as many people switching...


----------



## deandude1196

Yeah it probably would be cheaper to keep with it rather than to retrain them.


----------



## ozziebeanie

Yes they have stopped shipping out computers with XP on them but where I was working we insisted on XP Pro (even though we had our own discs) there where discs provided with the new computers/laptops to as Microsoft says 'Downgrade to XP Pro'

The costs of licences for many users like where I was working well in excess of 100 users (around 150 odd and then more as some had laptops also) they where already paying a huge amount for licences of programs that where only licence for a year for programs that had a yearly fee only of course, and had to keep up with upgrades when it came to departments like the engineering department, also specialised programs for testing machinery like in the workshop did not work on Vista, and we also had hardware considerations for attachments to computers of specialised equipment. 

A lot of equipment was also brought before Vista came out, plus there is the amount of programs that we had not updated as they where doing what was required of them, but we would have to update to get them to work on Vista which would cost thousands I am talking 30 to 40 grand or more

Also because where I worked for a local Council two other councils amalgamated, which meant we also had to upgrade to better servers to cope with the extra users from out of town in two other different locations, so we ended up with four new servers at around 16 grand a pop (just at the main location, other servers where also out of town) maybe not a lot by some businesses standards but more than able to cope with what this department needed. 

But a better back up system if any hard drives on the servers went you could pull out the drive from the 4th one and put it in the server where the hard drive went and **** itself and data would be rebuilt again. Also daily backups, to tape.

So you can imagine the cost to even a small government department of the equipment, programs, licenses, etc etc by just changing to Vista, not to mention the down time for users to train to use Office or even basic tasks in Vista.

At least by Microsoft extending its update time frame of XP Pro, it gives businesses time to see the next operating system come out and plot the best course of action as to the best way to go for that business or department, with as little down time as possible and also time to keep costs to the minimum but its going to cost no matter what.


----------



## tomdkat

Unless you're running an Exchange server, I really don't see a need to run Windows on the server end unless your system admins aren't familiar with servers other than Windows.

That might help keep cost expenditures down. Hot-swappable RAID is available for just about any server platform as well as various backup systems, etc.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

WOW!!! At least you're company will have time to see Chrome os before they have to make any decisions with XP/Vista/7. Maybe they will decide to switch to Googles os.


----------



## ozziebeanie

deandude1196 said:


> I was thinking and Google os will be out before 2014 so microsoft might not have as many people switching...


yeah you could be right there might be why Microsoft extended it so their would be not so many switching its all about money isent it


----------



## ozziebeanie

deandude1196 said:


> WOW!!! At least you're company will have time to see Chrome os before they have to make any decisions with XP/Vista/7. Maybe they will decide to switch to Googles os.


Could be right there, I was working there, finished two months ago, is was only a year contract, i heard from my boss they where looking at taking me full time, but they did not have the funds for it, so he got a trainee which is cheaper as government subsidise the wages instead, but them is the breaks ay, best job i ever had but i did not like the town though to remote for me.

Found a temp job soon after arriving here which was for 7 weeks it was just a office job though, doing wages and invoicing and such like boring crap, i like it in IT better, so on the hunt again for work, and looking at doing more study also.

Sure wished i knew about this site while i was still there


----------



## ozziebeanie

tomdkat said:


> Unless you're running an Exchange server, I really don't see a need to run Windows on the server end unless your system admins aren't familiar with servers other than Windows.
> 
> That might help keep cost expenditures down. Hot-swappable RAID is available for just about any server platform as well as various backup systems, etc.
> 
> Peace...


Yeah raid is what they had, never been good with names of things just know you can do something or something has some feature, used to drive my boss nuts. (still drive him nuts and i am not there anymore)

But he new what i was able to do and quite often sent me on my merry way to head off and do jobs. or took me along to a job he thought i needed more exprence in.

Yes they did use Windows for the servers. I think choices that are made have to begin with what you need then look at what equipment you also have to keep going. and specialisd programs, I left that stuff to the boss and just to anoy him put my two cents in sometimes.


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> yeah you could be right there might be why Microsoft extended it so their would be not so many switching its all about money isent it


Yes it is.


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> Yeah raid is what they had, never been good with names of things just know you can do something or something has some feature, used to drive my boss nuts. (still drive him nuts and i am not there anymore)
> 
> But he new what i was able to do and quite often sent me on my merry way to head off and do jobs. or took me along to a job he thought i needed more exprence in.
> 
> Yes they did use Windows for the servers. I think choices that are made have to begin with what you need then look at what equipment you also have to keep going. and specialisd programs, I left that stuff to the boss and just to anoy him put my two cents in sometimes.


I love putting in my two cents if it annoys somebody. I just hold back if its not the right situation. Dont want to get in too much trouble...


----------



## deandude1196

I just finished e-mailing my dad because he is VP of operations of a company and I told him about how XP was being Phased out, then they had to wait untill 2014 to start phasing it out.

This is his reply:

Yes, they are going to phase out support. This is typical of software companies to stop supporting so that you upgrade.

They wanted to phase out earlier but Vista was such a "bomb" that they are now forced to wait and see how 7 does.


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> Yes, they are going to phase out support. This is typical of software companies to stop supporting so that you upgrade.


This is true because it costs money to support back level versions of software. I work for a software development company that now maintains only one back level from the current product level. Before, we used to support 4-5 back levels and that became a maintenance nightmare.

Peace...


----------



## ozziebeanie

Tomdkat, that view I can relate to, yes it would cost a company a lot to keep updates for more than one program. 

but can you see a company like Microsoft producing Vista (which outdates all current programs that you would use on your computer including programs for specialist equipment) how much it would cost a company to not only update general software they where using (these would be available to work with Vista I am presuming with standard programs,) but specialist programs from smaller companies asking them to update to Vista so you can use your programs on them, and of course having to keep older operating systems till those updates came though. 

Then you have Office 2007 when you have well in excess of 100 users (or more in a lot of companies) who most are not that good at Office 2003 let alone 2007 but do know how to do their jobs so what they have to do in the program they know about, but sometimes depending on the job it could be very little, then you have the users that push out a huge amount of work and know 2003 well, and use the office program a lot, imagine them being presented with Office 2007 on their computers one day and think how much work compared to what they used to get out and just saying go for it. 

The down time would be incredible; there are huge expenses for not only software companies because of Microsoft's update to Office 2007 and Vista but to the company buying software.

When I saw the story of Google producing a OS it just never entered me head they are OS people I will be anticipating when it comes out and will enjoy reading any feed back, as much as I like XP Pro, I still think Microsoft has a to big a share of the market.


----------



## tomdkat

ozziebeanie said:


> but can you see a company like Microsoft producing Vista (which outdates all current programs that you would use on your computer including programs for specialist equipment) how much it would cost a company to not only update general software they where using (these would be available to work with Vista I am presuming with standard programs,) but specialist programs from smaller companies asking them to update to Vista so you can use your programs on them, and of course having to keep older operating systems till those updates came though.


Yep, I can certainly see this being an issue. However, it's a different kind of issue depending on your perspective. If I develop specialized software for Windows as my primary platform, I'm going to keep pace with new Windows releases as best as I can. If I can afford to join one of their developer programs, I can get advanced copies (meaning before they are officially released) of new product offerings (in this case Windows Vista or Windows 7 or Windows <whatever>) so I can update my product to work with them. Microsoft realizes it can't just "spring" something new, like Vista, on everyone and expect software vendors to have their apps Vista compatible immediately. So, I would utilize those resources to make sure my "Vista-compatible" version of my app was ready by the time Vista came out. In some cases, Vista compatible versions of third party software WERE available *before* Vista even hit the street.

If I can't afford to join a Microsoft developer program, then I notify my customers *in advance* that a Vista compatible version of my software will be available in some stated time frame so my customers will have time to plan for Vista's release and make their upgrade plans accordingly.

So some of the problem or issue you describe is for the software vendor to resolve.

On the consumer end, there will always be a "catch up" period that occurs since there will always be something new to learn or some new behavior to adjust to.



> Then you have Office 2007 when you have well in excess of 100 users (or more in a lot of companies) who most are not that good at Office 2003 let alone 2007 but do know how to do their jobs so what they have to do in the program they know about, but sometimes depending on the job it could be very little, then you have the users that push out a huge amount of work and know 2003 well, and use the office program a lot, imagine them being presented with Office 2007 on their computers one day and think how much work compared to what they used to get out and just saying go for it.


This is a little different since productivity software upgrades aren't necessarily tied to operating system upgrades. MS Office 2007 *does* run on Windows XP and I believe MS Office 2003 *does* run on Windows Vista and Windows 7 (just guessing here). The point being, your shop should be able to upgrade to MS Office 2007 when you're ready to and not "just" because a new version of Windows has come out. If your company is large enough to have an IT dept, the IT folks should be aware of this.



> The down time would be incredible; there are huge expenses for not only software companies because of Microsofts update to Office 2007 and Vista but to the company buying software.


That really depends on how the update process is planned and managed. At the company I work for, we've been told NOT to install IE8 until further notice. There is some testing going on to make sure IE8 will work with our internal apps ok. The same policy was in place for SP3. We were told NOT to install SP3 until well after it was out so the IT dept could make sure SP3 wouldn't break anything, that would contribute to or cause the downtime you mention.

If your IT dept is more cavalier about upgrades, that's a different "problem" that would need to be addressed. 



> When I saw the story of Google producing a OS it just never entered me head they are OS people I will be anticipating when it comes out and will enjoy reading any feed back, as much as I like XP Pro, I still think Microsoft has a to big a share of the market.


I think this OS is just part of Google's "master plan" to take over the computing world the way Microsoft has tried to. 

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

ozziebeanie said:


> When I saw the story of Google producing a OS it just never entered me head they are OS people I will be anticipating when it comes out and will enjoy reading any feed back, as much as I like XP Pro, I still think Microsoft has a to big a share of the market.


Yes Microsoft has a huge share of the computer market, but Google has a big share too. Maybe not as big as Microsoft but their probably 2nd if Microsoft is 1st.



> I think this OS is just part of Google's "master plan" to take over the computing world the way Microsoft has tried to.


I agree with you. BUT Microsoft had its chance and failed to take it. You have Apple I-pod, and Macs. Since Microsoft know realizes that its slipping, they are trying to take the above two and more and making their own in an attempt to regain their footing. (Ipod-Zune, and Mac-Vista)



> Yep, I can certainly see this being an issue. However, it's a different kind of issue depending on your perspective. If I develop specialized software for Windows as my primary platform, I'm going to keep pace with new Windows releases as best as I can. If I can afford to join one of their developer programs, I can get advanced copies (meaning before they are officially released) of new product offerings (in this case Windows Vista or Windows 7 or Windows <whatever>) so I can update my product to work with them. Microsoft realizes it can't just "spring" something new, like Vista, on everyone and expect software vendors to have their apps Vista compatible immediately. So, I would utilize those resources to make sure my "Vista-compatible" version of my app was ready by the time Vista came out. In some cases, Vista compatible versions of third party software WERE available *before* Vista even hit the street.
> 
> If I can't afford to join a Microsoft developer program, then I notify my customers *in advance* that a Vista compatible version of my software will be available in some stated time frame so my customers will have time to plan for Vista's release and make their upgrade plans accordingly.
> 
> So some of the problem or issue you describe is for the software vendor to resolve.
> 
> On the consumer end, there will always be a "catch up" period that occurs since there will always be something new to learn or some new behavior to adjust to.


That is a very good point Tomdkat.



> MS Office 2007 *does* run on Windows XP and I believe MS Office 2003 *does* run on Windows Vista and Windows 7 (just guessing here).


MS Office 2007 can run on XP, and 03 should be able to run on Vista and 7. What company wouldnt make a new software that wont be able to pull up previous softwares files/documents.


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> Yes Microsoft has a huge share of the computer market, but Google has a big share too. Maybe not as big as Microsoft but their probably 2nd if Microsoft is 1st.


Google is dominant in the search engine space but I'm not sure where else they rule. Microsoft has a FIRM grip on these markets:

PC (desktops and laptops)
Browser (IE)
Office Productivity (MS Office)(I guess this is a "market" )
Even if the Google OS riz-nocks, I'm thinking most Windows users will stay with Windows since that's their "comfort zone". Some will be open to trying something else (like some do with Linux) but most will stick with what they know best.



> MS Office 2007 can run on XP, and 03 should be able to run on Vista and 7. What company wouldnt make a new software that wont be able to pull up previous softwares files/documents.


Thanks for the confirmation. With regard to backward and forward compatibility, sometimes things happen where that compatibility can't be maintained. In other words, the answer to your question is it DOES happen from time to time. 

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Google is dominent in the Search engine space, and if you look at their labs, and everything that they have created, and they have a little of everything.


----------



## deandude1196

> Even if the Google OS riz-nocks, I'm thinking most Windows users will stay with Windows since that's their "comfort zone". Some will be open to trying something else (like some do with Linux) but most will stick with what they know best.


I wont. But yeah, they might for a little bit. But once they see how good Googles OS will be (Hopefully) then they will switch. And still if not then by 2014 when MS will give up on XP, since people dont like Vista they will switch to Google.

And your Welcome for confirming your theory about forward and backward.


----------



## tomdkat

Yes, Google is *very* diverse and in some cases pioneering. Not necessarily pioneering in coming up with the ideas but pioneering in coming up with implementations of those ideas that actually work and work very well.

Still, they aren't quite as "dominant" as Microsoft is and maybe that's a good thing.

I guess the other arena where Google might be considered dominant would be in ad revenue but I don't know if that would or could be separated out from the search engine space.

Peace...


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> I wont. But yeah, they might for a little bit. But once they see how good Googles OS will be (Hopefully) then they will switch. And still if not then by 2014 when MS will give up on XP, since people dont like Vista they will switch to Google.


Or whatever offering is around when XP finally dies off. From monitoring website stats from some sites I maintain, I'm surprised at the amount of IE6 traffic that is still around. I didn't get any time frames in the article but I would imagine Google OS is at least 1-2 years out, since making it practically "hacker proof" (paraphrasing) will take some time to work out.  I wonder what Microsoft will come out with to counter Google's efforts during that time frame.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

I dont know what MS will do but yeah it will be interesting to see what they do. In my article I posted it said something about middle of 2010 Google anticipates its OS to be out.


----------



## deandude1196

tomdkat said:


> Yes, Google is *very* diverse and in some cases pioneering. Not necessarily pioneering in coming up with the ideas but pioneering in coming up with implementations of those ideas that actually work and work very well.
> 
> Still, they aren't quite as "dominant" as Microsoft is and maybe that's a good thing.
> 
> I guess the other arena where Google might be considered dominant would be in ad revenue but I don't know if that would or could be separated out from the search engine space.
> 
> Peace...


Ad revenue would be on the border line of Search engine and it being seperate.


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> I dont know what MS will do but yeah it will be interesting to see what they do. In my article I posted it said something about middle of 2010 Google anticipates its OS to be out.


Yeah, that's right I DO remember seeing that now. 

2010 it is. 

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Know. If your idea about everyone making their apps for google os before it comes out, will be put up for the test. 

Do you think that Google OS will be good or bad? In terms of performance, viruses and malware, and the works? (overall)


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> Know. If your idea about everyone making their apps for google os before it comes out, will be put up for the test.


In the case of Google OS, I think that would be a fairly easy task given it's an open source project (or will be). This means, software vendors can download snapshots or betas and use those to port and develop their apps accordingly. In this case, I think it will be a matter of interest in developing for Google OS by whomever.

Since the Google OS will be different from traditional OSes, in that the focus will be to put the apps and data on the Internet, I don't know if we'll see many "locally" installed apps developed since there won't be much of a need for such apps.



> Do you think that Google OS will be good or bad? In terms of performance, viruses and malware, and the works? (overall)


I think it will be good but not necessarily "great" or "excellent", at least not at first. Once it matures, I think it will rock. I think once the Google Chrome browser matures a bit, it will be a great browser. I like what I've seen of it thus far. 

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Thats exactly what I think.

Im talking about web apps like things for people that use the web with aps that make programming and such work easier.


----------



## tomdkat

I think web apps would be much easier to develop than porting a traditional app written in a compiled language since the web apps would be standards oriented and that's one area where Google excels... use of open standards. 

Peace...


----------



## ozziebeanie

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124702911173210237.html?mod=rss_com_mostcommentart

Came accross this one also, it does comment that Google thinks users will move towards on line programs rather than programs installed, well for me google is wrong, why would i rely on a company's program that i want to use and their servers go down and i can not use their programs till they have sorted it, no way if i want to type a letter or have a spread sheet i want to do it when i want to not wait around because servers are busy or down.


----------



## deandude1196

Im not so sure about that Ozzie. I would use the online version. How often has Googles servers been really busy or down? And besides, what can you expect from Google's os. They made a program called google docs (see here). Why wouldnt they interlock those together and have google docs be the "MS Office" of google os?


----------



## deandude1196

What is PC Mag talking about here. I agree with some but others are really out of line.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/168117/how_google_chrome_os_could_beat_windows.html

Thats another one you will want to visit.


----------



## tomdkat

ozziebeanie said:


> Came accross this one also, it does comment that Google thinks users will move towards on line programs rather than programs installed, well for me google is wrong, why would i rely on a company's program that i want to use and their servers go down and i can not use their programs till they have sorted it, no way if i want to type a letter or have a spread sheet i want to do it when i want to not wait around because servers are busy or down.


Of course 24x7 online access to apps and data is something Google has and is taking into consideration. Given Google's current philosophy of making the "Internet" the "platform", I think you'll see a distributed network providing access to whatever apps are available for use. In other words, instead of connecting to a particular server to run a particular app, you would simply "connect to the app" and won't know or care where it's running. As long as it's available, you can run it. Behind the scenes, servers could be going up and down all the time but you wouldn't know it.

How many times have you tried to do a Google search and couldn't because a server was down? In that same time frame, how many servers were actually down yet you were still able to do your searches?

Have you tried Google apps? If not, try it out but NOT with *real* data since I don't know what happens with your data once you enter it in one of their apps. But try creating a fake spreadsheet in Google apps and make changes to it, etc., as if you were using it for real to get a sense of how an online app could function for you.

Peace...


----------



## ozziebeanie

That's the thing if you save a file, the application is not on your computer only a short cut to it, and is on what ever server, what if the Server breaks down as it is not repairable? Do they do backups daily and pull a drive out and put another one in and get it back? What sort of system? If you have not got the file on your computer, or maybe it lets you save a copy on your drive or flash drive even but you can not open it unless you log in, what if you need to open your document but you are unable to get on line? 

I prefer to have programs on my computer and have the discs here to load it again if something goes wrong and to have real copies of documents saved in at least two different places, I would have to know a lot more how it all runs before I would venture to use programs that are only on line only. 

I also like to know what I have paid for I have in my hand like the program disc.

I would have to know a lot more before I go down that track


----------



## deandude1196

Here's a little more.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/10/intel_google_chrome_os/


----------



## tomdkat

ozziebeanie said:


> Thats the thing if you save a file, the application is not on your computer only a short cut to it, and is on what ever server, what if the Server breaks down as it is not repairable? Do they do backups daily and pull a drive out and put another one in and get it back? What sort of system? If you have not got the file on your computer, or maybe it lets you save a copy on your drive or flash drive even but you can not open it unless you log in, what if you need to open your document but you are unable to get on line?


You need to take a step back and open your mind a bit.  ANYTHING you do online that creates or updates a file will be stored online. When you use Google docs to create a document or a spreadsheet, that data is stored on Google's servers. If you like, you can download a copy of the file to your local computer but the file doesn't *have* to reside on your computer at all.

In the case of Google, they have huge server farms with more storage space than you can imagine. They have backup strategies and policies in place so I don't think there would be a time when you had absolutely NO access to your online data unless something huge happened, like several data centers went down. If there were the case, more sites than Google would be affected but that would also be some kind of "disaster" situation.

From a different perspective, you can create a document on your local system, either online through Google Docs or on your local system and upload it to Google Docs, and then have access to it from a different system or maybe a mobile device of some kind. Think about that. You can create a spreadsheet on your local XP system through Google Docs and edit it on your iPhone or BlackBerry at some later time and at some other physical location (like in a meeting or something) and then be able to make further updates when you got back home. You could then easily share that document with others, either in read-only mode or in a mode where they could edit it as well.



> I prefer to have programs on my computer and have the discs here to load it again if something goes wrong and to have real copies of documents saved in at least two different places, I would have to know a lot more how it all runs before I would venture to use programs that are only on line only.


I completely understand but this is a traditional computing mindset.  There's nothing wrong with this mindset but as more and more of our data lives online, this mindset will no longer apply and will need to be changed.



> I also like to know what I have paid for I have in my hand like the program disc.


In the case of Google Docs, the apps you use are free. 



> I would have to know a lot more before I go down that track


If you haven't done so, take the Google Docs Tour.  I do consulting work for a company that uses Google Docs as their 'productivity suite' platform and it's been working well, thus far.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Yeah. My dad and I both use google docs. Works great because I dont have to tote around cds, and accidentaly leave my seperate Hard Drive/memory stick somewhere. Its all up in *the cloud*


----------



## JohnWill

tomdkat said:


> In the case of Google, they have huge server farms with more storage space than you can imagine. They have backup strategies and policies in place so I don't think there would be a time when you had absolutely NO access to your online data unless something huge happened, like several data centers went down. If there were the case, more sites than Google would be affected but that would also be some kind of "disaster" situation.


You must be a pretty unusual Internet user if you've never had an extended outage of your service, I know most folks have. When that happens, all that data out in the *cloud* is unavailable. 

Let's not even get into the privacy concerns that you should rightfully have letting Google have all your personal information!


----------



## deandude1196

Whats different of letting Google see your personal info then microsoft seeing it? Other that your storing some personal stuff up in the *cloud*. Besides, whats the odds of Google deciding to go through your stuff. And if they did (which is doubtful) what are the odds of yours getting picked. 1 in a couple thousand if not more.


----------



## deandude1196

Tomdkat. Check out this article. (everyone else can too. But it was meant for tomdkat because we were talking abut kernel google os is going to use. and it talks about it)



> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.6) Gecko/2009020911 *Google OS*/ChromeKernel 0.9 *(very secret, to be released soon.)* Firefox/3.0.6


There is part of a hint on what kernel their using. I think you might be right. A modified Linux kernel.


----------



## tomdkat

JohnWill said:


> You must be a pretty unusual Internet user if you've never had an extended outage of your service, I know most folks have. When that happens, all that data out in the *cloud* is unavailable.


I'm not unusual in that I've _never_ had an extended service outage but it's not frequent or common. I would say my Internet connection has a 99% uptime, over the past 8 years I've had it. Most outages have a duration of minutes while barely a handful have lasted more than an hour or longer. In other words, my Internet connection isn't down a significant amount of the time nor are the Internet connections of those I personally know or do work for.

That's the other thing, a local Internet connection outage would be a different animal from a data center going down (which I HAVE also encountered). I mentioned the data center going down but I didn't mention the local Internet connection. In the case of the data center going down, most large distributed computing complexes will have redundant data centers sprinkled around the world so downtime of a site as large as Google would be minimized and if it didn't go down completely, performance would probably be impacted. In the case of a local Internet connection going down, access from the computer would be cut off but for those with Internet service through their mobile phones, they could get access that way. So, if I can't access an online document from my PC, I could probably access it from my iPhone or BlackBerry or similar device (provided I had such a device ).



> Let's not even get into the privacy concerns that you should rightfully have letting Google have all your personal information!


Google would be just one example. As more and more data lives mostly online, these privacy and security issues will be ironed out and resolved. The best part is, if you're not cool with one online service provider's policies you can choose another one if it suits your needs better or keep your data on your local machine, as most do today. 

Peace...


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> Whats different of letting Google see your personal info then microsoft seeing it? Other that your storing some personal stuff up in the *cloud*. Besides, whats the odds of Google deciding to go through your stuff. And if they did (which is doubtful) what are the odds of yours getting picked. 1 in a couple thousand if not more.


Some people are concerned that hackers *will* have a high success rate, provided an online target is attractive enough to them. Security will always be a concern and one not limit to online data storage. I don't see much of a difference between giving personal info to Google vs Microsoft but I do acknowledge that the privacy and security issues will always be there.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Im with you tomdkat. Mocrosoft/google no difference.


----------



## tomdkat

deandude1196 said:


> There is part of a hint on what kernel their using. I think you might be right. A modified Linux kernel.


Thanks for the link. I got the info about the kernel being a Linux kernel from the article on the Google blog. 

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Your Welcome.


----------



## deandude1196

Here is yet another article that I've dug up on chrome. Just a few points I want to highlight and talk about.



> Yet, the fact that Google has partners that share its vision says something about the shakiness of Microsoft's position. Acer, Adobe, ASUS, Freescale, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, and Toshiba are all working with Google to help it re-imagine the operating system. So too is Intel, as _The Register_ reports.


Google has alot of help.



> It's hard to imagine a less promising business for Google to enter, especially given that Google plans to give Chrome OS away for free. And Google's grand plan to shake up the operating system market isn't made more credible by the absence of any actual programming code or substantive information about Chrome OS.


Their giving it away for free? That makes me wonder how. When you use docs and stuff when they initaially boot up will there be an ad and the ad changes every time an update happens it brings in a different ad?



> Google's decision to target the netbook market may help the prospects of Chrome OS. Although Microsoft has made a concerted effort to push Windows on netbooks to fend off low-cost Linux-based challengers, Google may find it easier to compete in the netbook market because access to cloud-based services and software is more valuable on devices with constrained resources than on high-powered desktop computers.


So they might have a chance to gain a little more ground...

As for the rest of the article fromabovve quote on down youll have to read. I think that what they are claiming is and could be quite true.


----------



## ozziebeanie

JohnWill said:


> You must be a pretty unusual Internet user if you've never had an extended outage of your service, I know most folks have. When that happens, all that data out in the *cloud* is unavailable.
> 
> Let's not even get into the privacy concerns that you should rightfully have letting Google have all your personal information!


Not so much the Privacy concerns as I am not one to put private stuff on the net, well only to a point, but the only outages I have had with my internet (apart from when moving and waiting for a service to be reconnected) I have had about four dropouts in the many years I have had ADSL or DSL as I think its known for in USA, and then those dropouts where, the longest was half an hour, (have had to switch off and unplug computer equipment for longer because of storms before starting using UPSs but then it gives you time to close properly and unplug anyway but handy if not at the house), 

but when it comes to things on the web we are using already like hotmail, Yahoo Mail, now those programs I have been in a situation where it was not working for a couple of days (which is why I dont use web mail any longer) my isp like I said has the longest been out half an hour, way better than a couple of days.

What if your internet provider went out and you urgently needed documents that are up in the clouds? What even if you had documents saved on your computer but the program to open them was up in the clouds? What if someone was waiting for an urgent answer from you and did not have your phone number but had emailed you?
And your email is up in the clouds

As to the Privacy Concerns, if I remember rightly I think even Government departments have been cracked into a time or two and caused a panic, I mean if they can be cracked into so could Yahoo, MSN or Live Mail as its known now, and Google.

I am all for a new OS and look forward to using it and trying it out and maybe even using it all the time, but I am not all for using programs on the net and not been able to install them on your computer, which one of the articles about Google Chrome OS, this was mentioned.


----------



## ozziebeanie

deandude1196 said:


> I love putting in my two cents if it annoys somebody. I just hold back if its not the right situation. Dont want to get in too much trouble...


hehehe


----------



## ozziebeanie

That really depends on how the update process is planned and managed. At the company I work for, we've been told NOT to install IE8 until further notice. There is some testing going on to make sure IE8 will work with our internal apps ok. The same policy was in place for SP3. We were told NOT to install SP3 until well after it was out so the IT dept could make sure SP3 wouldn't break anything, that would contribute to or cause the downtime you mention.

If your IT dept is more cavalier about upgrades, that's a different "problem" that would need to be addressed. 

I think this OS is just part of Google's "master plan" to take over the computing world the way Microsoft has tried to. 

Peace...[/quote]

Everything like a update of any sort, has to be planned, and looked into before it can be introduced, like you said huge down times can happen if not planned well.


----------



## tomdkat

ozziebeanie said:


> but when it comes to things on the web we are using already like hotmail, Yahoo Mail, now those programs I have been in a situation where it was not working for a couple of days (which is why I dont use web mail any longer) my isp like I said has the longest been out half an hour, way better than a couple of days.


I don't know how Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail differ from Google Mail but I've never encountered a GMail outage that lasted *days*. I've got e-mail accounts on all three.



> What if your internet provider went out and you urgently needed documents that are up in the clouds? What even if you had documents saved on your computer but the program to open them was up in the clouds? What if someone was waiting for an urgent answer from you and did not have your phone number but had emailed you?


These are valid questions and apply outside of the scope of this discussion (of storing apps and data online). If you're concerned about having redundant access to your documents, I would keep backup copies on your local computer. What if you have a local power outage and can't turn on your local computer? Then, if you can go to another area that has power and a computer you can access, you could access that document online. 

As for the applications used to create and update your documents, in the case of Google Docs, non-proprietary file formats are NOT used so you would be dealing with Word or Excel documents or document types compatible with Word or Excel. In other words, you wouldn't be "locked in" to some new application with its own file format. Again, check out Google Docs and see for yourself. 



> I am all for a new OS and look forward to using it and trying it out and maybe even using it all the time, but I am not all for using programs on the net and not been able to install them on your computer, which one of the articles about Google Chrome OS, this was mentioned.


That's cool. I'm just saying having locally installed apps will eventually be a thing of the past. 

Peace...


----------



## ozziebeanie

tomdkat said:


> I don't know how Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail differ from Google Mail but I've never encountered a GMail outage that lasted *days*. I've got e-mail accounts on all three.
> 
> These are valid questions and apply outside of the scope of this discussion (of storing apps and data online). If you're concerned about having redundant access to your documents, I would keep backup copies on your local computer. What if you have a local power outage and can't turn on your local computer? Then, if you can go to another area that has power and a computer you can access, you could access that document online.
> 
> *Valid point Tomdkat*
> 
> As for the applications used to create and update your documents, in the case of Google Docs, non-proprietary file formats are NOT used so you would be dealing with Word or Excel documents or document types compatible with Word or Excel. In other words, you wouldn't be "locked in" to some new application with its own file format. Again, check out Google Docs and see for yourself.
> 
> That's cool. I'm just saying having locally installed apps will eventually be a thing of the past.
> 
> Peace...


 you have a few good points there, i love debates you get to think about others point of view. and yes i have a few programs to try out dont I.


----------



## JohnWill

Of course, even given we believe that the Internet will always be up, and Google will never lose your data and/or have a data center outage where it's not available for an extend period, we are forgetting one little detail.

The access speed to the data will be vastly slower over all but the very best ISP connections. I have one of the faster Internet connections available at 20/5, and I really doubt I'd like to wait for my data coming down the line, than the updates going back.


----------



## ozziebeanie

JohnWill said:


> Of course, even given we believe that the Internet will always be up, and Google will never lose your data and/or have a data center outage where it's not available for an extend period, we are forgetting one little detail.
> 
> The access speed to the data will be vastly slower over all but the very best ISP connections. I have one of the faster Internet connections available at 20/5, and I really doubt I'd like to wait for my data coming down the line, than the updates going back.


I tend to agree with you JohnWill, i guess its a wait and see situation


----------



## tomdkat

JohnWill said:


> The access speed to the data will be vastly slower over all but the very best ISP connections. I have one of the faster Internet connections available at 20/5, and I really doubt I'd like to wait for my data coming down the line, than the updates going back.


Two points on this:

Companies, like Google, which provide the online servers more and more people will start using will have platforms that scale with user load. Sites like Twitter crash under load because the Twitter folks never thought it would take off as it has so they don't have the infrastructure in place to meet high demands. A company like Google won't have that kind of problem.
As client-side scripting gains more momentum, e.g. AJAX technology, the amount of data exchanged over the network connection will be minimized. When I edit a document using Google Docs, that document isn't sent to my machine for editing and then sent back to the server. I edit the data on the remote server with a local client sending only or mostly the relevant info the server needs to do its job.
I do agree that "stress" on the Internet and the servers will go up as more and more people do more online but the major players will be equipped to deal with it and will be able to scale accordingly.

Peace...


----------



## deandude1196

Agreed.


----------



## JohnWill

Let me know how it works out for you, I'll keep my data local for the foreseeable future. I'm not sold that this is anywhere close to ready for prime time. I'm guessing that a lot of other people will be even more skeptical than I am. Can it work someday? Probably. Will it be a reality for the masses in the next couple of years? Not a chance!


----------



## lotuseclat79

Two recent articles about Google for you to digest:

Does Google Know Too Much About You?, and

Making an Operating System Virus Free.

-- Tom


----------

