# scandisc/defrag freeze D: disc



## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

I am able to scandisc/defrag my C: disc in safe mode. When I try 

the same with D: it freezes about half way thru. Diagnostics tells 

me I do have a bad sector(s) but I don't know how to have it 

specify where. How do I identify this bad sector(s) and what can 

be done to rectify the situation? Also, is running a partial 

scandisc/defrag on D: harmful?? Do I need to run these programs 

on D: ? Everything is fine otherwise.



I have an older IBM 166mhz w/ windows 98 Norton a/v @ black ice. 

Also, thank you everyone for past help! I'm to the point now where almost everything is stable (as I cross my fingers)...


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

"Diagnostics tells me I do have a bad sector(s)"
Which "diagnostics"?

"but I don't know how to have it specify where. How do I identify this bad sector(s) and what can be done to rectify the situation"

Run Scandisk with the Thorough Option selected and the AUTOfix not selected.
Now, everytime Scandisk finds an error it will tell you BEFORE it tries to fix it, and allow you to decide whether to allow it to go ahead.

Once it starts the Thorough scan, if you have bad sectors, you will be notified, and when you select yes to fix, scandisk will "attempt" to move any information away from that area, and then mark the sector(s) bad.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks Whitphil... I followed your instructions and was immediately prompted: you have more than one backup copy.. they are not identical would you like to fix...
I clicked yes and all was fine until..... 

"Scandisc could not properly read from or write to cluster 255623."This cluster should be marked as bad so Windows does not attempt to store data in it in the future.

Repair the error

Test this sector again

Ignore this error and continue

I started to repair a cluster at a time hoping it would "break through" and then finish scanning. It was repairing at the rate of about 40 bytes a pop. This raises my curiousity as well as my patience. So... a few questions:
Should I spend the next full day repairing these clusters (assuming they are indeed being repaired). I tried to ignore and continue but it continues to prompt for repair of more sectors. These sectors are toward the end of the disc (ending at app.
319,000 bytes) If they can be repaired I'll continue my arduous task. Either way; repaired or not can I run defrag without harm??
Is there a better way or is all hope lost??


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

It certainly appears as if the end of that drive is going bad. If it is under warranty, contact the vendor and get it replaced. (which, since it is an OLD box, is probably not an option??)

You don't want to run defrag on that drive, because it may start to move data onto one of these bad clusters. It is possible that data can be written, without errors, but reading is generating errors. (defrag also uses the end of a drive as it's "work area", so odds are very good that it will be writing/reading on these bad areas)

If you want to keep running the unit, you need to allow Scandisk to find all the bad sectors, and mark them as being so.

Do an initial run with autofix off, (and no thorough), to ensure that all is well with the directory/fat structure. Then rerun it with autofix selected to allow it to automatically correct the bad sectors. And, just leave it running. 

Ensure that logging is enabled, and append is chosen, then after the run you can review errors found, and what action scandisk took. Any files that it said it recovered or attempted to recover from the failing sectors should be reviewed for integrity or replaced.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You have absolutely the best helping you in Whitphil, so I'm just going to basically give this a boost back to the top.

Since these errors are not occuring on the bootable drive (c:\), my inclination would be to just bite the bullet and have it repair all. If it were a bootable drive, the risk would be that Scandisk might leave the drive unbootable and any valuable data could be difficult to retrieve. If indeed you do have any valuable data on the drive, it might be well to make copies of it on the good drive before proceeding.

{ah, I see Whiphil to the rescue }


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks Whitphil/Rollin Rog! I appreciate your insight. I'll give it a 

wing and see what happens. Will probably be out of 

commission until late tonight but will let you know results. Also, 

curiously, while waiting for a reply this A.M. I ran scandisc in 

regular mode and it went as far as the bad sector; previously I 

had to use safe mode as something was always writing to 

Windows. Hmmm... Love that Cal. rock Rollin Rog......

Thanks again.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

I'm baaack! A new computer is not an option right now! Soo...
I followed your instructions -- the initial run went no problem(auto-fix off/ thorough off). Reran thorough(both done in safe mode) w/ autofix on and left for a few hrs. , then...I came back to a message: scandisc has stopped running the disc has been removed from the hard drive (that's close anyway) - the puter was frozen so no report etc.. I rebooted and got the following message: (you sensed this coming didn't you??) 

POST STARTUP ERRORS
THE FOLLOWING ERRORS WERE DETECTED 
WHEN THE SYSTEM WAS STARTED

1762 Configuration Change has Occured
1780 Hard Disc Error

Select one of the following options:

Continue with setup utility
Exit the setup utility

If I continue with the setup utility then exit out of that I get some type of screen with the f1 thru f12 keys outlined on the bottom and an arrow or two pointing down to the f1 key as well as what appears to be the outline of my computer box and the front of
my cd rom. If I exit the setup I am able to get back to windows.
It took two tries though. I bought this computer from my parents and my brother told me there was some kind of class action settlement petaining to this model- don't know if it was hard drive related though... It's a IBM 2176-65 166mhz if that matters.
Soooo... I'll try scanning again as I"ll probably have a wait before I here from you again although it appears you are Eastern time too. Any more suggestions would be welcomed. If I should just let this be.. I will.. (I really hate the thought of that!!)


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Just went to play some more with scandisc in windows mode and the D: drive is gone or at least does'nt show now, What did I do?? I did do a backup. Hope I did it right! In the meantime everything else seems to be working fine but I'm a bit afraid to do much else. NEED HELP thanks, kevcro


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It looks like IBMs hard drive support has been taken over by Hitachi. Can you find the model number here and download a "fitness" test?

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/table.htm#Other ibm drives

http://www.ibm.com/Search?v=11&lang=en&cc=us&q=hard+disk+drives+diagnostic


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

I went to both sites and no way that I could see to download a 

fitness test as they dont list that particular model. However I did 

find my model on the ibm web page under western digital. It is a 

model# wdac 32100. They have a technical report on this drive 

which states in part "This corruption manifests itself on the last 

partition on the master hard drive only." It also states "Check 

your config.sys file for advanced power management statements

containign APM.SYS OR VAPM.SYS (PRBLEM CAUSERS) it would 

help to run a low level chkdisk with disc manager....contact west 

digital for guidance before using this utility. I did check sys.config 

and in startup there are two identical options checked for loading 

power management. Could this be causing conflict?? Outside of 

this I don't know what to do next??


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's unusual to have anything like that in config.sys. Are you sure you are looking at the right file? It sounds like what you are referring to are the loadpower profiles in msconfig > startup. That is not what they are referring to. 

Your actual config.sys file is on a different tab and Windows does not require it at all.

It could be they are asking you to look in system.ini for those drivers. Can you post the link?


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Sorry about the delay, I'm now limited to the local library pc. I can

now only get into safe mode (last try....possibly again), no

windows just the ability to access startup utility where I can f5

restore settings (I was afraid to try). You're right about config.sys-

I do know how to access thru dos or notepad...what was I

thinking? I fear it's too late now. The link to IBM/Western digital is

I think www.wdc.com/support historical #5941644. I did print this

memo previous to your last reply. I am pretty sure that this is a

lost cause--that the d:drive is unsalvageable now. When I did

backup before trying last scandisc it told me something to the

effect .... cannot export D: I didn't realize the implications as I am

a bit of a novice and it took the better part of an hour just to

backup my E: and F: drives (cdr's). Maybe I'll have to bite the

bullet and look at replacing this hopelessly outdated machine. If

you have any hope though of a quick or relatively easy fix I would

be appreciative as I am in between jobs now etc.. etc..Either way

thanks Rollin ROG and Whitphil too!!


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I think I may have misunderstood the situation, this is a partitioned drive not two separate ones, and now the c:\> dirive appears to be failing?

If out of the blue you can only start in Safe Mode, try pressing tapping f8 or pressing the ctrl key right at the beginning of the boot to access the startup menu. Then choose "command prompt" and enter:

scanreg /restore

use the arrow keys to select a prior started registry.

You may need to use msconfig to to some 'clean boot' troubleshooting from Safe Mode if that is the only option.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q188867


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

It certainly sounds like your drive is on it's death bed, and that somehow the partition table has gotten corrupted?? Which caused the loss of D:\. And now C:\ is acting up??

From Safe mode or DOS, open the file C:\Scandisk.log should is/should be a log of what Scandisk found and the actions that it took. 
See if anything there explains what is happening?


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Will do, and get back wit ya's tomorrow, thanks guys.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

I am back online: Without writing a 10 page diatribe here are some things that have happened;

1. 1st boot usual error messages plus some
2. Tried to enter safe mode got windows (non safe mode)instead.
3.Went to DOS---C:\> Prompt ...Typed Scandisc.log <enter> nothing comes up.
4. Typed (in DOS) scanreg /restore
5. Restored previous backup of registry - no errors found on C: scan and it is clean.
6. Not sure still how to find that Command prompt to check it out.
7. Lot's of error messages etc.. (no surprise there).
8. Went to scandisc.log but by this time it only showed the recent scan of the "new" registry and the C: drive 
9. D: drive is still in "My Computer" 99% unused.

Sooo. I'm back to square 1 and still no info on D: drive. Whoops, hey wait a minute!! D: drive now shows from start menu, accessories, system tools, scandisc...it was gone before...
I'll reboot - hope for the best-- check this all later. thanksagain

Some background thoughts... I just f-disced and repartitioned drives C: D: and E: into just drive C: and D: with the help of online support from Microsoft and reloaded Windows 98.

I just did a surface scan of D: and it went thru okay in about 2 seconds. Q:? Do I dare try a thorough scan again?? I think not!! I'll wait and see what you guys think. I always was a lousy gambler. Thanks KC


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## Sparkle Tom (Feb 19, 2003)

Forgive me for sticking my nose in here - if it's bloodied, I'll shut up. I see excellent advice is percolating.

If this PC has some miles on it, may I suggest an easily overlooked snag?

The CMOS battery?

In some situations a failing trickle/energy source allows the PC to forget or draw upon random HD info. Not too common with new machines, or newer BIOS that likes to double check w/ autodectect. The symptoms fit though - bad settings with a HD often give you a semi-readable drive. The POST errors. 

This may explain all the glitches. A thought, anyway. Usually the problems are more noticible, so this is a longshot.

Are date/time correct? A way to check that. A machine that can't keep a date is battery challenged ... usually.

How about virus? Please run CHKDSK in a dos window. Total bytes memory should be 655,360 - a lower number usually means you have a germ. Some germs are smart - that won't find them all. If you got MAGISTR (or the like) - we know what is shaking. It attacks BIOS and DATA.

Check those cables ... I went through this with a friend who SWORE that could not be the source of his HD problems. He felt those cables couldn't come loose without help .. the help is those vibrations from fans and drives. In his case a week of woe could have been avoided. Reseat the cables.

Good luck.

Spark


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks for the insight Spark. chkdsk found 655,360 bytes w/ 

618,944 free. Clock is fine. Checked exterior cables--perhaps I 

should recheck inside? Also chkdsk says I nmust and should run 

scandisc. Would like link to download a check for this Majestr 

virus if anyone has it. Could be a virus lurking somewhere in the 

hard drive. Otherwise I'm now booting up normally and all is fine 

except... (here we go again). How do I complete scandisc on D: 

and get bad sectors marked. etc... Also, a curiosity I forgot to 

mention in my last reply.. I had this message arise at one point:

unable to write to disc in drive C: Data or files may be lost. I think 

this was before I reinstalled registry. I'm puzzled.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Rollin Rog/Whitphil; hope you're still with me. Spent half the night 

on western digital web page. Found what I'm pretty sure are 

the right downloads. Did diag in DOS and got: there was a device 

error reading drive 1.... fatal error. No printout therefore. Went 

back downloaded bios chk and in DOS got: found no discs.(By the 

way my Crogram.exe seems to be missing). Any more ideas?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

When did you get the error about "program.exe". There really is no such program and this error occurs when there are either registry issues relating to old viruses, or file association problems either with IE internet shortcuts or other programs.

Can you try doing a HouseCall scan on drive 'd'?

http://housecall.antivirus.com/

It might help if you give us a post of the StartupList (not the scanlog at this time) using the HijackThis application below:

http://www.tomcoyote.org/hjt/

Frankly I don't know why you got the "unable to write to drive 'c'" error, there are just too many possible causes from failing drive to general system instability, loose cabling ....


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## WhitPhil (Oct 4, 2000)

So, you have not fdisked and formated 2 partitions, C and E?

And, obviously, reinstalled Windows. And some of your other software??

Can you summarize what errors/problems you are now seeing??

The suggestion about the CMOS battery is an excellent one. If it is in the 4+ years area, then I would recommend spending the $2.25 to replace it. About 6 months ago I went through, what looked liked, symptoms of either memory or disk failures. I was getting random hangs, strange failures and couldn't get to the BIOS. BUT, the clock was working fine. Changed the battery and all issues disappeared!!

As for the Scandisk, a couple of things.

1. Change the Logging option to APPEND. Otherwise the results of Scandisk 2 clobber Scandisk run 1. 

2. Since you DID seem to have bad sectors, you HAVE to run a Scandisk thorough again, to confirm that they are or are not there. And if they are, get them marked as bad.

3. The log, BTW, is called SCANDISK.log. From the DOS prompt, if necessary, just enter

Edit C:\Scandisk/log


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Logfile of HijackThis v1.92.1
Scan saved at 6:20:35 PM, on 3/28/03
Platform: Windows 98 SE (Win9x 4.10.2222A)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

O2 - BHO: (no name) - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\PROGRAM FILES\ADOBE\ACROBAT 5.0\READER\ACTIVEX\ACROIEHELPER.OCX
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSDXM.OCX
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ScanRegistry] C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TaskMonitor] C:\WINDOWS\taskmon.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SystemTray] SysTray.Exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Tweak UI] RUNDLL32.EXE TWEAKUI.CPL,TweakMeUp
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [SchedulingAgent] mstask.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [LoadBlackD] "C:\PROGRAM FILES\NETWORK ICE\BLACKICE\BLACKD.EXE"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [iolo Task Agent] C:\Program Files\iolo\Common\Task Agent\Task_Agent.exe
O4 - Startup: BlackICE PC Protection.lnk = C:\Program Files\Network ICE\BlackICE\blackice.exe
O4 - Startup: WinZip Quick Pick.lnk = C:\Program Files\WinZip\WZQKPICK.EXE
O4 - Startup: Data LifeGuard LifeLine Lite installer.lnk = C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\ins1.TMP\DLGLI1.EXE
O9 - Extra button: Related (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Show &Related Links (HKLM)
O12 - Plugin for .spop: C:\PROGRA~1\INTERN~1\Plugins\NPDocBox.dll
O16 - DPF: {9F1C11AA-197B-4942-BA54-47A8489BB47F} (Update Class) - http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/CAB/x86/ansi/iuctl.CAB?37692.8666782407
O16 - DPF: {74D05D43-3236-11D4-BDCD-00C04F9A3B61} (HouseCall Control) - http://a840.g.akamai.net/7/840/537/2003031901/housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/xscan53.cab


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Although that isn't actually the "StartupList" log, I think it is sufficient to show that there is nothing in the loading programs to account for your errors. 

Do try to post the exact messages, when they are occuring, and if they are repeating in a predictable way.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

What's the record for # of pages on this site?.....One step forward and three back! Ok, lets see if I have this right? Sparkle Tom et.al. I checked all interior cables all seated fine anyway. Replaced the battery and then got : 161 Bad cmos battery and 
163 date and time incorrect. Spent the last 8 hrs. playing w/that. 


Still don't know if I have to set the time in initial setup utility or just in Windows. Had to jiggle the battery clip holder as I think it was too loose after changing and hope I did'nt damage anyhting
as its in a tight spot. Reseated the jumper on it too and finally was able to get back to (I hope) normal startup. Won't know til I reboot as I wanted to touch base here. 

Whitphil, I recently reformatted and partitioned the hard drives with the help of a tech lady with Microsoft. I honestly believe all is okay there as she was very competent I think.

For your info I did have D: Computer,---C: hard drive 1, --- E: Hard drive 2. That is now D: Computer,--C: Hard drive 1, and E: as well as F:, are cdrom drives. 

As for other programs ..some of the errors I am now sure were being caused By my Norton a/v which has been a previous headache so that is now uninstalled awaiting resolution hopefully of this problem. When I replaced my registry with the backup it seems to have caused a conflict with this i.e. error messages. 


I went back and scandisced again with append log - thorough, no autofix and it froze up no chance to try to manually fix. So I did not retry pending further advice. 

Scandisc log from DOS, C: said that there were no errors on the D: drive if that makes any sense.. ..any other tries I made to find log. notes showed nothing. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I follwed directions>>>I don't know. 

I do have a Black Ice firewall but read me and workarounds show nothing related and I don't think that is the problem. Other than that Word, system mechanic. winzip, IE6 and other inocuous programs?

Rollin Rog, as you can see I sent what I thought was what you had requested and came close . That was the first time I have ever cut and pasted anything - seriously-- I should get a junior tech medal or something if I ever figure this out .... I downloaded housecall too- nothing - clean.

Sooo... provided the cmos clock is now fixed.. here is where I think this stands. 

I still have no documentation whatsoever on scandisk.log or anything telling me what is going on with the D: drive. Tried a second time to run westarn Digital bios check and diag. again got "device error reading drive one -absolute sector Zero count" (did I mention that before?) 

My gut feeling is maybe.... (seeing as this machine was previously owned and now I know there were "end of the drive problems with the western digital hard drive) ---to make this computer resellable some tech. rigged it to bypass part of the D: drive in order for it to merely work? I'm really grasping. Either way if it gets resolved or not Thank You All!!! Any more ideas are still welcome. One last thing--I did find the original aptiva diagnostics and utilities disc. I'm not sure if that would be of help and not sure how to run it........


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I wish I had a clue as to what that diagnostics error message meant, but I don't and can't find any hits for it.

I know you've been trying to run ScanDisk from Safe Mode, but have you tried doing it from DOS? If you boot to a command prompt you can try the command:

scandisk d: /surface

or if you want to do both drives:

scandisk /surface /all

ref:

http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/scandisk.htm


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks Rolling Rog for the info. I printed for reference; thats something I'll use a lot. 

Now I have another problem. Since changing the battery I can no longer get to windows ...I'm back to the library... I must have damaged something; the clip that holds the battery in is loose and at first it was messages:

cmos battery bad
date and time incorrect

then also,

configuration change. 

I was still able to get into windows via exit the startup utility. I
tried to set the date and time here and at first it took; now - (the numbers I try to change for example 03-29-03 jumps around) and when I exit setup or save changes and exit I get an error code
top left of screen it merely has 100090 or something, and then it goes into this shadowy outline of the computer with f1 thru f12
keys on the bottom and arrows pointing toward the f1 key. Perhaps the clock "board" was already going bad and I just helped it along? Maybe I have no choice but service now. If thats the case I,ll have to close this thread and get back to the scan problem later. (I am on disability right now so a repair may have to wait). Anyway, any ideas on this clock matter?? This may sound silly but (yeah, I'll stick to workin on my car) could I put say a piece of something else metallic under the clip to tighten it up?.. or anything conductive etcc..)???


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

When you replaced the battery, it sounds like you corrupted the cmos settings. Normally if you leave the battery out for a minute it will automatically cause the cmos to reset and load the BIOS defaults, but the loose clip must have buggered things up.

In any case there is a shorting jumper that should be used to reset the cmos now. You should find it near where the battery is.

The basic drill is to shutdown, change the position of the jumper and leave it in place for 30 seconds. Then return it to its normal position and reboot. You may or may not need to go into the BIOS and reload the defaults after this.

Instructions on this link:

http://www.dewassoc.com/support/bios/bios_password.htm

If you do have to put a shim under the clip, make sure you are working with the power off. The actual contacts, as I recall are on the bottom and sides of the holder and the clip just holds it securely, but I could be wrong. If the clip is required for contact, then yes any shim would have to be mettalic, like aluminum foil.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Rollin Rog. ,Whitphil and Sparkle Tom. Voila! I have the cmos battery sit. under control. Thank you!! I do however have a few questions and then if this system lets me I'll unsubscribe this thread and start a new one "same name #2"


1. Why does the blue letter next to my question (this thread) have a black mark on it which means "you have posted here"? I saw nothing in "rules" to explain this Is this an option I chose under user panel?? No one else has this..


2. I only once now, recently, have had an error mess. :"configuration has been changed" while booting up. Everything else is going fine and I haven't had to reload BIOS.
Does that suggest I should leave it alone and all should be well?
Or should I reset the jumper; I know where it is. And reload BIOS?

3. The info on DOS scandisk is very useful. Seeing as I am still trying to pinpoint what's wrong with the D: drive and am pretty certain there are bad sector(s) toward the end of the drive... and I did a surface scan which went thru okay in about 3 seconds...


I would like to do the same in DOS as I did in safe mode i.e. 
"thorough, autofix, append log". 


I tried SCANDISK /FRAGMENT/*.* because it says I must specify a path and filename but it said this is "contiguous". What exactly do I specify to scan ALL of "D:, thorough, autofix and get a log"??
Or is this not the suggested course? 


Doing scandisc, thorough, autofix in safe mode and windows my computer froze up when it got to the "bad" sector area. 

4. If I have to do an undo disc is this something that I can copy to a floppy disc? Hang with me I think I sense a breakthrough coming!! Your unwitting tech in training, KC. Hee!

P.S. What is an unmounted compressed volume file? anything I need to deal with at this point? If not no reply necessary.


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## Sparkle Tom (Feb 19, 2003)

My nose hurts!!!

I'm unclear if the CMOS battary idea was a curse or a help. I just checked up on this thread and was horrified to read that such a seemingly easy proceedure resulted in such an ordeal. Kev, I'm sorry if I put you on the wrong road, my best intentions went with the observation I offered, and I reluctantly admit I'd still go that direction if dealt the same hand.

I believe I inadvertantly rushed you to a replacement, which isn't a bad thing in itself, but I shudder to think of what could have happened with a soldered battery and an unsure hand. I am comfortable that THAT needed to be eliminated as a problem - and the cost is so little. There should have been a warning or two on the replacement paradigm - it's too late, but I offer what I can:

Note all CMOS settings while machine is stable - good for future use, your's is suspect now.

Replacing a part of the motherbd is delicate. You can get a little cranky with drive cables, just a little. If you bend a pin, you will see what I mean. Many of us learn the hard way. With the mb thing ... you will be well served to be very gentle with -

* Battary clips, yes you know this now, it's out of the way.
* RAM sticks - and those clips that hold them in too.
* Processor - Lawd, Lawd. Careful, Eugene. Never force anything.
* PIN 1 ... are you aware of how to align chips and cables?
* STATIC - are you doing surgery on a desk and on carpet?
* Jumpers / dip switches - fingers are oily and clumsy, use the needlenose.
* No shorts - you can wear your bermudas. I'm talking about the motherboard being "broken" from the case. I've seen it before, a solder tip is touching the case. There's a reason those shims come with a MB kit, but not everyone uses or understand why.

Please do not jump in to things that are unfamiliar. I have enough trouble sleeping without a dose of guilt. Call me selfish. In our list above, caution is the key, but let's address static for a sec. A killer, but you don't need a fancy bracelet and a ground cord. You want the machine powered OFF, always for innard work, but unlike some I'd advise you to leave it plugged in to the wall. Why? Just touch the power supply now and then - you can say goodbye to static. (Not always the best method - unplug when working with your PCI cards).

I'd love to see what SPINRITE would say about your drive's health. This puppy brings tears of appreciation from old techs that had much nastier HD technology to deal with - it still rules for IDE trouble sniffing.

I can't address all of your concerns but I'm going to aim at what I know and perhaps together we shall get things moving, eh? As potentially embarrassing as your CMOS event may be, I'd be a coward to run away.

1. Why does the blue letter next to my question ...

I don't know, the working's of the site are not within my scope, I bet others can clue you in.

2. I only once now, recently, have had an error mess ...

CMOS changed - it happened once, right. Rock on, Garth.

3. The info on DOS scandisk is very useful. Seeing as I ...

There is no such thing as a surface scan on a HD that lasts 3 seconds. I'm sure we still have problems with partitions or settings. D: appears to be causing mischief.

4. If I have to do an undo disc is this something ...

With an OS undo, the size is too awkward for a floppy. Other types of rollbacks may not be so sizeable and will likely ask for a floppy.

P.S. What is an unmounted compressed volume file?

Eugene! That damned Axe - Careful!! This may explain our D: scandisk thing. Do you recall creating "virtual" drives on this system - errrr, aka DRVSPACE drives? This is like using RAR or ZIP on the fly to write everything to your HD, and it's a thing of the past for most. If it blows a gasket the whole volume is usually a goner, and it puts a performance hit on the underpowered systems that it's only found on. Besides most things are pretty compressed and tight these days - not much to gain. Spill. What's the message with this?

Relax -

Spark


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks for the insight Sparkle Tom; you were right on the money with the tech tips. I ended up fixing the battery sit. with ...you guessed it .. needle nose pliers. Not to worry though, that battery had been in this machine from day one and I don't know if it is my imagination or not but it seems things are running quiter and faster and not 1 error message since the afore mentioned.??? I'm a natural lightning rod too; I'll keep those thoughts in mind during computer brain salad surgery. As far as pin 1 I'm not sure I follow you there, I'm a know enough to be dangerous self learner. A million thanks to all of you as I'm getting a free webelo techie badge with this course and getting things fixed too, thank god! 

Would still like to know exactly which DOS command might best suit my needs for running scandisk/thorough/autofix/log or something similar just to satisfy my curiousity if nothing else. Would like to check out spinrite--we'll see. I love doing this stuff--just really got started about 3 months ago. Better 25 years late than never! I guess I'll hold off a bit on a new thread til I hear a 
little more. Really, thanks. Later KC

.....And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. Pink Floyd

Die Dunkle Seite Des Mondes (1996 Pandora Books, Germany)
(The Dark Side of theMoon)


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It looks like Sparkle Tom has done a most thorough job of answering your questions, so I'll just add that when you click on that little blue down arrow next to your question, you will be taken to the first "unread" post in the thread. It's all done with 'cookies'.

As for scandisk, opionons about it vary widely. Personally I would avoid running it unless there are specific disk related issues that need to be answered -- and then I think it would probably be 'safest' to run it first with the checkonly switch. If serious errors are encountered in the directory or fat structure, you may have the opportunity to back things up and make a last will and testament for your computer before letting it fix things.


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Thanks Rollin Rog, I'll try it in checkonly. However I think I sense a 

reluctance on your behalf to tell me the exact directory, path and 

filename etc. if I WAS to attempt scandisk... and see if I can 

resolve this problem with D: drive once and for all. After all, I'll be 

the one banging my head against the wall if the hard drive 

disintegrates! (I know, I know, then you'll be hearing me cry 

about it).This old computer already been read last rites like 3 

times now??I'd like to give it a go unless anyone has really 

strong objections. Anyone want to help me administer the coup 

de grace? Signed, Curious Puppy that just has to cross that road.


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## Sparkle Tom (Feb 19, 2003)

"What a long, strange trip it's been." - Grateful Dead

I think we are on the downhill side to getting this system to straighten up, fly right, and put the seat back down when its finished in the loo. Pass the bong.

Congrats, Kev, you kept your cool, you did it yourself. I'll address a few of your questions, but permit me to meander as things occur to me. I'm far too lazy to be expected to write something concise.

You want to know how to work with SCANDISK switches. Boy, do you have a pleasant suprise. Nearly all DOS commands are equipped to provide a little imbedded help. From DOS take a spin with these:

SCANDISK /? 
DIR /? 
SCANREG /?

Before fouling britches get a grip and write down that "/?" thing - it has saved us all at one time or another, and is especially useful if no other techs are looking over your shoulder. Go ahead, try these too:

DEBUG /? 
SORT /? 
MORE /? 
XCOPY /? 
ATTRIB /?

Sweet, huh?

I find you to be a refreshing change from the norm, Kev. If more people took the time to learn how to work from the command line in DOS, there would be far more self sufficient users, and plenty of loaded britches. Errr, don't play with that .. that DEBUG thing ... dragons lurk there and I was smited by it back in DOS 3.2 days so vociferously that my ears are still ringing. Why did I use it as an example? Well ... I know your type, Kev, you'd have found it eventually. If you ever have to format an old MFM drive we can open that can of worms.

My thanks to our moderator, RR, I think I got a compliment and will wear my "Junior Member" status with a little more haughty pride. I agree with him too, Kev, save the "thorough" SCANDISK routine for real trouble.

NOW - DRIVE D: our last headache, right??

You didn't answer my question with DRVSPACE - ARE YOU GETTING AN ERROR w/ A COMPRESSED UNMOUNTED VOLUME?

Eureka! Your missing HD real estate has just been found. Shame on the used computer store for letting that slide through. There are some unknowns and needless headaches awaiting with reviving that beast - I predict version conflicts and the mere thought of slapping that thing into submission makes that ring in my ears turn into a roar. I recommend a fresh start with that HD. Notice I didn't call it D:, for now D: is likely to be a partition off of HD 0 (HD 1 is the secondary, HD 0 is primary) or not there at all according to your system. FDISK is your friend here ... it can display the drive info, and give you the fresh start we are after on that drive. When you have that tamed - you can pin that techie medal to your fez. A fez? All techs proudly wear them when gathered amoungst themselves. Civilians have no idea. You should get yours with haste. Optionally, you can get a miter (think of the Pope's hat).

Speaking of merit badges, certifications and such ... here's the scoop from one perspective. I was obliged to attend a few of these lengthy gab fests and training extravaganzas. The "signal to noise" ratio is absurd and the ink is still drying on your certificate as things abruptly change. Furthermore, on graduation day, you will see people getting their "diploma" that you would never trust with your system (Yes, J. Loki, I still remember you, wherever you are). So ... how then to actually display your new talents ... let the world know of your education? Read on.

Get ahold of 2 old harddrives - broken ones are just fine. One for each hip pocket. Remember those mechanical sitting monkeys that have the little cymbals ... you smack him on the head while he's bashing those things then he really starts raising Cain. This is our model ...

Here's the scenario, Kev, you will finish with a horrible hardware repair, a friend's machine, for your Aunt, or maybe a customer. Your knuckles are bleeding from the solder tips that you rubbed against like a cheese grater for hours, and there is a new vein on your forehead that bulges and throbs. Upon completion, the computers owner is pleased for a moment - then wants your time with (pick any - the list is far from complete):

"My AOL account isn't set up quite right, can you ..."
"My spreadsheets ... I can't get this cel to ..."
"Have a look at my geneology program, I want to import ..."
"My kids must have ..."
"A friend loaded this Yugoslavian screen saver ..."
"My word processor won't read my mind and if you could ..."

Unholster those drives. Sit upon the floor and knock those babies together with vigor. Wide arm smacks, just like that monkey. Pay special attention to the clenched teeth and the bulging eyes, just like the monkey. Back in the days of those aforementioned MFM drives, this was a real workout. Shrieking is an elective. This is performance art, and it's your techie merit badge on display. Nice work. Oh, and then there's the fez.

Lemme know how the HD thing goes. FDISK that bad boy - if you get in a jam, just SOS.

Oh, you asked about the PIN 1 thing. Look at your ribbon cables, Kev. See the red on one side? That tells you the orientation. The red side is PIN 1. The corresponding PIN 1 to plug into is usually marked with a tiny "1" on the circuit board. Not always. With a processor - varies on which one ... look for a dot or a squared corner. Eproms or RAM, look for a notch. PIN 1 should have been covered last semester. My bad.

Spark


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## kevcro (Feb 9, 2003)

Okay I relent. Maybe being so adament about getting D: drive scanned isn't such a good idea. I'll look at it this way: I resolved several issues and have no more error messages (until I screw up again) and the puter is running fine. That said I can live with
it as it is. I also learned a LOT from all this and acquired a lot of valuable tech info for my next crisis! AND..I've developed some kind of symbionic relationship with my computer for good or bad. I'm definitely not going to reformat/repartition again- I just went thru that on my dime...two hours on the phone to N.Y.C. or somewhere with Microsoft and their tech gal in India(that's right). 

So I think I'll leave well enough alone (aw,.. you know better than that) and always wonder if my D: drive is a wasteland of fragments mixed in melted silicone goo. Thanks everyone!!

I do really have other issues to address now so I'll close this thread and get on with it. 

Sparkle Tom: from your last mess. I gather you do this for a living? I don't, it's merely for my own benefit; I don't think I could handle being on the own end of MY idiocy let alone dealing with everyone elses. So a suggestion... if you want to keep those foos
and their runny nosed progeny at bay just use some of that bong water as an aftershave... well honey did he tell you how to?...
No dear; but he said it was fixed-- and he really wasn't very 
pleasant.... see ya on the next thread Bye Bye



"I am the bothersome flea on the dog of life" ......scratch,scratch


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## Southern Belle (Aug 15, 2001)

kevcro said:


> What's the record for # of pages on this site?.....One step forward and three back! Ok, lets see if I have this right? Sparkle Tom et.al. I checked all interior cables all seated fine anyway. Replaced the battery and then got : 161 Bad cmos battery and
> 163 date and time incorrect. Spent the last 8 hrs. playing w/that.
> 
> Still don't know if I have to set the time in initial setup utility or just in Windows. Had to jiggle the battery clip holder as I think it was too loose after changing and hope I did'nt damage anyhting
> ...


heyal,

could it be while during the changin of things that the d: cable is set backwards? since they look and feel the same on each side it coul possibly been pluged in wrong.

just a thought....i've done a few times.
southern belle


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