# Open Letter to Dell



## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

Open Letter To Dell Inc. From The Security Community 
For Immediate Release. Please distribute as you see fit

December 2, 2003 -- We in the antispyware, antivirus and security communities would like to express our disappointment with the new technical support policy in place at Dell Inc. Dell's new support policy does a disservice to its customers and puts everyone on the internet at risk, including non-Dell customers, by discouraging the removal of malicious software.

Dell's new policy came to light in a recent issue of the Lockergnome Windows Fanatics newsletter. This policy forbids Dell technical support persons from providing assistance to customers in removing infections of unwanted commercial parasites. This policy forbids providing removal instructions or recommending a spyware removal program. The policy even forbids mentioning informational web sites that can provide information about the spyware and how to remove it.

According to a Dell employee, the only acceptable response to a customer infected with spyware is to refer them to their Internet Service Provider (ISP).

A spyware-infected computer is not a problem for the ISP. This is a problem for the company that sold the customer an agreement for technical support along with their PC. Dell should honor that agreement, not pass the buck to overworked ISPs who correctly will refer people back to the PC vendor.

Dell claims that removing spyware may violate the license agreement of other software that may have installed the spyware and cites this as the reason for the new policy. Perhaps Dell Inc. is unaware that many spyware programs and most other commercial parasites are classified and targeted as viruses by industry-leading antivirus software.

Will Dell forbid employees from recommending an antivirus program? Will Dell prohibit their techs from suggesting a firewall because it might be used to block a spyware program from sending user data to its vendor? How far does this policy go before common sense prevails?

Countless thousands of people become infected with all manner of commercial parasites every day. Most of these parasites have no license agreement and exploit security flaws to install themselves. How can you violate a license that doesn't exist? The parasites that do include a license agreement may not disclose the undesired effects they have on the user's computer and may provide no means of removing it.

It is ironic that Dell Inc. would institute a policy forbidding advice about how to remove spyware. Dell itself includes an antispyware product on all Dell PCs that ship with a built-in DVD player.

According to Pacman's Portal, "it seems that after Dell found out certain applications being installed from DVDs would report back information about what customers were watching, they decided to implement an anti-spyware service." Specifically, an application called DVDSentry disables the spyware that may come with some DVD player software.

How can Dell justify a policy of withholding information from spyware-infected customers when they distribute an antispyware product themselves?

It is inappropriate for Dell to make decisions based on a license that might exist, associated with software that might be present, which might forbid removing the parasite causing problems for Dell's customers. Dell is not associated with this software or their vendors, has no knowledge of what may or may not be in the license or even if a license exists at all.

It is understandable that Dell does not want to provide manual instructions on removing commercial parasites. Few people are qualified to provide proper spyware removal instructions today. It is probably not possible to give that sort of advice over the telephone. You need log files, links to specialized removal software and, most importantly, you need experience in removing these parasites manually.

What is not understandable and certainly not acceptable is that Dell requires its technicians to withhold information from paying customers. It is irresponsible to refuse to help a paying customer remove a parasite infection by pointing them to a site that can help them. That infected customer might infect someone else and Dell would be directly responsible for any damage that caused.

We call upon paying customers of Dell Inc. to contact Dell and ask them to retract this policy. One day it may be you asking for help and being told "Sorry, removing the virus popping up pornographic ads in front of your children might violate the license of other software".

Dell Inc. should be more concerned for their paying customers than for persons who would distribute spyware and viruses. We call upon Dell Inc. to retract this misguided policy and allow their support technicians to refer infected customers to web sites that can help them.

Respectfully,

Mike Healan, SpywareInfo
www.spywareinfo.com

Tom Wilson, TomCoyote
www.tomcoyote.org

Bill Webb, CounterExploitation
www.cexx.org

Kevin McAleavey, Privacy Software Corp
www.nsclean.com

Mike Cashman
www.mjc1.com

Paul Wilders, Wilders Security Organization
www.wilders.org
www.wilderssecurity.com

A. Porter, SpywareGuide
www.spywareguide.com

J.Hertsens, XBlock
www.xblock.com


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## starchild (Sep 17, 2002)

This is interesting. I was checking this topic because I've been getting many ads from DELL (special offers, free shipping, etc- though small print like "monitors not included" (LOL)

I'm not at all familiar with what you write about, but I'd think it might be some sort of liability concern. Like if someone tries to take out spyware and takes out something they need, instead. And, maybe their customer service people aren't trained for this.

A lot of customer service people at computer companies only know one thing- how to sell people computers and pad it as much as possible.

I wonder if they'd be allowed to give out the url to THE TECH GUY?

That's all anyone really needs.

~ Carrie


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

Hi starchild 

I wish I could take credit for writing the Open Letter to Dell but.... It Wasn't Me. The point of the letter is that Dell installs malicious software in their computers and then says you cannot remove it.


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## sleekluxury (Oct 5, 2003)

Well i heard that it's not that you can't remove it, it is just that it would be a violation of their contract with these companies, and they (DELL) do not offer help, links and or tips for spyware removal.


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

What a wonderful company Dell is to have all that garbage pre-installed for you at the factory. But when I think about it it does make sense for the scumware pushers to have it pre-installed and makes Dell even more money at the cost of privacy to the unknowing public. Great deal for everyone involved except the consumer!


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

that is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Dell does not preinstall spyware. In fact they remove a lot of it that microsoft and intel was putting on their chips. That's right they remove spyware from major affiliates of theirs. They also remove activation from windows xp. Dell is probably the most active company there is in protecting individuals privacy rights. These posts are completely ignorant and misinformed. Why should dell support removing software you downloaded and installed on your computer? Why don't you educate yourself and stop blaming them for all your problems? They sell good systems for good prices and if you don't like them so much then go buy a gateway or hp and see how much you like dealing with them. I've dealt with them all and dell is far above the rest. Now the tech support in india thing gets on my nerves I have to admit. I wish they would stop doing that.


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## sleekluxury (Oct 5, 2003)

Dell is far above the rest, see i knew it, i own a Dell very proud of it, as for the india part, im Indian so i don't really care...lol...i get to talk to some nice people ....and on top of that....it's free...not like im being charged to call India....o and they are moving tech support back to America i believe


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## sleekluxury (Oct 5, 2003)

Got this from here:

http://channelzone.ziffdavis.com/article2/0,3973,1420669,00.asp

"In a move that may have resulted from such complaints, Dell recently shifted technical support operations for two of its corporate computer lines back to the States. Calls involving the company's OptiPlex desktops and Latitude notebooks, previously routed to phones in Bangalore, India, will now be handled in Texas, Idaho, and Tennessee. Consumer and small business calls are still handled in India."


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

Sleekluxury
Did you read what this thread was about? It was about what Dell installs on your new computer not where Tech support is located. But as you last post states....*Consumer and small business calls are still handled in India.* You can also check here for some posts on how Dell supports their customer base..http://kennethhunt.com/archives/000886.html


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## sleekluxury (Oct 5, 2003)

I never had any garbage installed on my computer, and it's a Dell


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jwark:_
> *that is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Dell does not preinstall spyware. In fact they remove a lot of it that microsoft and intel was putting on their chips. That's right they remove spyware from major affiliates of theirs. They also remove activation from windows xp. Dell is probably the most active company there is in protecting individuals privacy rights. These posts are completely ignorant and misinformed. Why should dell support removing software you downloaded and installed on your computer? Why don't you educate yourself and stop blaming them for all your problems? They sell good systems for good prices and if you don't like them so much then go buy a gateway or hp and see how much you like dealing with them. I've dealt with them all and dell is far above the rest. Now the tech support in india thing gets on my nerves I have to admit. I wish they would stop doing that. *


Hi jwark
All the people are listed on the first post you can contact them at the appropriate websites and tell them they are ignorant and misinformed. By the way Spyware is not installed on chips by Intel or Microsoft it comes with the software that is installed on Dells new computers.


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## Big-K (Nov 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jwark:_
> *that is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Dell does not preinstall spyware. In fact they remove a lot of it that microsoft and intel was putting on their chips. That's right they remove spyware from major affiliates of theirs. They also remove activation from windows xp. Dell is probably the most active company there is in protecting individuals privacy rights. These posts are completely ignorant and misinformed. Why should dell support removing software you downloaded and installed on your computer? Why don't you educate yourself and stop blaming them for all your problems? They sell good systems for good prices and if you don't like them so much then go buy a gateway or hp and see how much you like dealing with them. I've dealt with them all and dell is far above the rest. Now the tech support in india thing gets on my nerves I have to admit. I wish they would stop doing that. *


Not all spyware is from software you install. Alot of times it's a tracking cookie or something installed without warning in the background from a website you visited. Alot of times its something that comes with software you install without the EULA telling you about it. Its not always the customers fault.

One of my friends keeps telling me about how great dell customer support is, and that they've called them numerous times getting help with removing a virus, apparently a worm or hacker. Dell didnt say anything about an antivirus or firewalls. And notice he's been calling them for days getting help and its still there


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

Ok, first of all it's not spyware on the intel chip, it was a spychip. I just meant that dell removes that to protect customer's rights. And secondly. You say that it installs without the user's knowledge? Of course it does. And who is doing that? Dell? no, it's the website you're going to. Why is dell responsible for that? Have you ever even read a service contract? It's for hardware replacement and making sure the software that was shipped with the system is functional. If they wanted to they could just tell you to reinstall your operating system for every single software problem and they would still be within the guidelines of the contract. But they don't do that and removing viruses is not easy at all sometimes. They are not designed to be removed easily. I think end users should not be dependant on technical support to solve software problems anyway. And if they are they shouldn't be so accusatory when everything doesn't go smoothly. You're supposed to cooperate with them and I can tell you 9 times out of ten when it doesn't go smoothly it's because YOU the user are not listening and not following directions and being a complete moron. You just sit here and whine and moan when all you need to do is go search on the internet for how to remove spyware? If you can't even do that then you don't deserve a computer. It's 2004, learn how to use a freakin search engine. Dell or anyone else is not responsible for your fall in the gene pool.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by It Wasn't me:_
> *Hi jwark
> By the way Spyware is not installed on chips by Intel or Microsoft it comes with the software that is installed on Dells new computers. *


Ok then. You know so much, dell installs spyware on new computers. Give me some evidence then because I have 20 new dells still sitting in them box. Tell me the executable that is spyware and I will find it. Or is this something you just heard through the grapevine. Give me something solid please and not just your moronic babble.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Big-K:_
> *
> One of my friends keeps telling me about how great dell customer support is, and that they've called them numerous times getting help with removing a virus, apparently a worm or hacker. Dell didnt say anything about an antivirus or firewalls. And notice he's been calling them for days getting help and its still there *


You know, I don't believe you. I bet they did and your friend wasn't listening. No technician I know would ever not ask the essential question, "Are you running antivirus?", when they get a virus. It's the first step because then you say ok then use it and scan your system. If that is true then you talked the most idiotic technician ever and does not, in any way, represent what computer companies want their technicians to do. I believe he would be fired if they found out he was that incompetent.


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

Jwack
You sure have a smart mouth on the internet. Did you read the first post? The only moronic Babel here is your posts, If you knew what you were talking about I would argue with you. Open a box and install Spybot or Ad-Aware if you have heard of them and come back and tell us what you have found. Then contact the people on that list and tell them. I am sure they did not dream this up and would be happy to hear from you and your extensive computer intellect on the subject of spyware.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Seems the new Dells have Apropos.exe on them.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Apropos.exe&btnG=Google+Search


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Thanks for the info It Wasn't me 

I've been wondering how Dell and some others got their prices so low.
Just a thought.. If a reinstall were done(complete, not just of windows like in repair of) are the offending issues of spyware in the install CD/DVD or image?

If the factory install has spyware, that's bad enough. If the reinstall has spyware, the consumer is always screwed. And there is always the issue of ' did Adaware, et al, catch everything'?


Jack


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea it's sad that they get paid to add spyware to the PC.
So you know the real reason they don't want to help on removing spayware as they would have to help remove what that got paid to install on your PC. Maybe they got paid even more to to stop helping remove spyware from the spyware people.


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

Perhaps it's noted in the EULA, or is it??  Read this.

Dell's Software License Policy
Dude, you're getting screwed.
28 Aug 2003
Kat and I just received the Dell Inspiron 5100 notebook we ordered from Dell Canada. We quickly ran across problems.

I pushed the power button to turn on computer. I got the Dell POST screen, then a screen from Dell (Photo):

SOFTWARE LICENSES

- Before using your computer, read all of the software license
agreements that came with each program that you ordered.
There may be several agreements to examine. To comply with
the terms and conditions of the software license agreements,
you must consider any CD or diskette set of Dell-installed software
as BACKUP copies of the software installed on your computer's
hard-disk drive.

- If you did not order Dell-installed software for this computer,
or if you do not accept all the terms of the licenses, please call
the customer assistance telephone number listed in your system
documentation.

Press any key on the keyboard to indicate that you have
read all of the software licenses and agree to their terms.

Be Direct TM
Dell TM
www.dell.com

But there are no license agreements in the box that the computer came in. [There are some shrinkwrapped CD containers, but the "Terms and Conditions of Sale (CANADA)" that came with the invoice says:

"7. Software. All software is provided subject to the license
agreement that is part of the package. Customer agrees that
it will be bound by the license agreement once the package is
opened or its seal is broken. Dell does not warrant any software
under this Agreement. Warranties, if any, for the software are
contained in the license agreement that governs its purchase
and use."

I've never agreed to those Terms and Conditions, to my knowledge, but I assume they think they're enforceable, so I can't open up the shrinkwrap to see if the license agreements are in there, without automatically agreeing to them.]

So I called the only Dell number I could find on my documentation (1-800-847-4096) and spoke to a customer support representative. I told her what was on the screen, and told her I couldn't find the license agreements I'm required to read and agree to before pressing any key.

She put me on hold while she looked into where the license agreements might be, and eventually transferred me to technical support. The tech support agent told me her database was down, so she couldn't look up anything at all (I hadn't even told her what the problem was yet), and I'd have to call back in an hour.

I call back, and speak to a tech support woman. She says: "press Tab." I explain that I can't without saying I've read and agreed to documents I don't have. She says "press page down". Same problem. She says "scroll down". I explain it's not a Windows screen. She says "insert any Dell-shipped CD". I exlpain the problem of opening the CD packaging.

She insists I have to press a key. I ask her if she really means that I have to agree to the licenses before it's at all possible that i've read them. She says "yes". I explain that that's not acceptable, and ask for her supervisor.

Her supervisor insists it's a Customer Care issue, and not tech support, and that there's nothing he can do. He can't explain why they sent me to him. He enters my info into the call log databse, and I go to call back Customer Care.

So back into the hold queue I go.

I'm finally connected to a Customer Care representative. [Pretty much each sentence in the following was interspersed with long, long times on hold.]

She looked up the call log to get the background info. She insists she doesn't have copies of the agreements, and that I'm supposed to go online and look them up myself. (?!) She says to use a public computer if I have to. I ask how to know what companies have software on my disk. She goes away for a bit, and says she doesn't have that information, and there's nothing they can do. [And there's no supervisor available.] She asks why I don't want to agree to the license. I explain I haven't *seen* it. She says "it just says you won't copyright any of the files". I ignore the mistake, and explain that licensing agreements are long, long documents that say much more than that, and that anyway, the screen says that I have to have *read* it.

Eventually she does manage to connect me to Alan Burley (Manager, Customer Service).

He said he installs things all the time without reading the license agreements. He says I should just do that. I ask if he's really telling me to lie and to agree to legal documents I haven't seen. He says I don't have to, but the only thing he can do is take the computer back. He says that it's the first time this issue has escalated. He does manage to tell me what software is on the system, and says I need to go to those companies' websites to get their agreements. [Never mind that I need the OEM version and that's unlikely to be there.] I ask _him_ what if this was my first computer. He said I would have to go to a library or a friend's house. He really couldn't send me the agreements that Dell insists I read and agree to before using the computer.

He said he couldn't give me his phone number or mailing address, and that he didn't have a boss who could talk to me.

So we've got nothing left to do but send it back. He says he'll send waybills, and will refund the cost of the computer, including the original shipping charge, and won't charge a restocking fee. We will have to pay for the shipping back to the Oakville depot. I figured we could just run it by there ourselves (it's not too far), but he said that that's not possible. (I don't understand why. We'll probably try, anyway.)

It's crazy that it came to this. If they had said *anything* reasonable, we would have been happy to just install Linux on the thing and be done with it. But they were saying that anyone who uses a Dell laptop (with this startup screen) *has* to just lie about having read the licenses, and just blindly agree to them. That's unacceptable enough that it's going back.

It's also interesting to note that everyone except Mr. Burley assumed that I was talking about a Microsoft screen which included the Windows EULA, until I told them otherwise. This was a Dell screen, with no EULA, and I'm surprised that none of these people were aware of its existence.

After all this, we *did* try to boot off a Linux install CD. That just took us to the same screen as before. So we had to go into the BIOS so that it would try to boot off the CD before the hard disk, but after we did that, Windows started to boot, without having displayed the "press a key to agree" screen. We quickly powered the machine down before Windows started. [Though now you no longer get the "press a key to agree" screen when you turn it on, even with the BIOS settings back the way they were.]

This took from around 3pm to around 8:30pm today. I'm just bewildered that Dell corporate policy is that users need to lie to use their new laptops, and to agree to legal agreements that it's completely impossible to have read. This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ian Goldberg and Kat Hanna


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Wow great to hear that about Dell. I would also send the laptop back to them.

Also get this post you made all over the web so it makes the rounds for others so they know about Dell.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by It Wasn't me:_
> *Jwack
> The only moronic Babel here is your posts, If you knew what you were talking about I would argue with you. Open a box and install Spybot or Ad-Aware if you have heard of them and come back and tell us what you have found. *


Lol, I have spybot on my computers already. I run it on them all. It does have the best list. The only thing I don't like is the startup scan runs in the foreground. And there's no reg tweak to change it.

Guess what people. I actually took the time to research this, because I can think for myself, and found out that the article accusing dell of this was originally published by http://www.spywareinfo.com. Here is an update from the editor himself. http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/1203/2.php . He claims the original article was misleading. And I quote "This article has been slashdotted. I'd like to clarify that the posting at slashdot is slightly misleading, suggesting that Dell itself is installing spyware. That is not the case at all and please don't be confused into believing that. Dell is absolutely NOT bundling spyware on their PCs." Slashdot was the low budget website that made this accusation. So um, what up with that?

And hewee...You know absolutely nothing about computers. I clicked on your link. NOWHERE was there any link that proved this was even spyware at all, much less istalled by dell (which is not even listed anywhere as spyware, not even in the search you gave me). That was pretty funny reading a list of people who posted directories on their drives that happen to have Apropos.exe on them. Why don't you try securityresponse.symantec.com. That is the official source for what is spyware. I'll get back with you if it's even on my new dell before I reimage it. But it really doesn't prove anything anyway.

I still want proof. You people whine and complain and moan and you can't produce the proof. And when you try to offer it you only expose your ignorance.

You people don't deserve computers.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

UPDATE

I searched for Apropos.exe at...

http://www.spywareguide.com/
http://securityresponse.symantec.com
http://www.spychecker.com/

http://www.safer-networking.org/ (yes this is the homepage for spybot, you can search the same list they have there. Wow, so much you newbies don't know)

and http://www.computercops.us

found nothing at all. wow, guess you are the all powerful spyware sniffer that no one else knows about because you can search for people who submit lists of running processes asking other people if it's spyware and claim that means it's spyware.

And SECONDLY, I just finished running spybot, adaware, and norton av 2004 (it has spyware and adware checkers now in 2004) and found absolutely nothing at all. And THIRD, your file is nowhere to be found. Now back to work, I've wasted enough time on you idiots.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt1:_
> * But there are no license agreements in the box that the computer came in.
> *


No license agreements? Check again. You are in fact lying. I just pulled out a dell computer and am reading my licensing agreement for microsoft windows xp. The message it is prompting you with is poorly worded though. You have absolutely nothing to worry about. None of the software will let you run it until you read the agreement (which it will present to you when you try to run any software for the first time) and it will not let you proceed until you agree to it. But you can read the windows licensing agreement before you boot the system up. So it's just poorly written. Things like that happen , but you're at no risk and just seem like you're scared because you obviously know nothing about computers. The reason why no one could explain it to you is that they probably hardly ever deal with such stupid questions and would not admit to a lawsuit waving freak like you that it was just a typod message. What do you expect when you act like a complete jackass?


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

jwark,

Any members of TSG that know me will attest to the fact that I do not engage in "flaming" so I'll make this brief. I do not take lightly being called a liar, freak or jackass. Nor do I like being referred to as stupid or scared when it comes to computers. In fact, I have probably forgotten more than you'll ever learn about computers.

Your problem seems to be that, while you can read, you have a problem of comprehending what you are reading. Instead of posting your objective view and or experiences with DELL, you resorted to uncalled for childish personal attacks on other members of this forum for stating their opinions. For what it's worth, I did not author the post I submitted. It was submiited purely as "food for thought" and nothing more.

Enough said.


Kilowatt


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## Schnitzu (Jun 5, 2003)

Jwark, you are new here, and I see that all of your posts so far are in this thread. I trust you have read the site rules. It is okay to debate with people, but it is not okay to call them down.

http://www.techguy.org/rules.html


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Meh...........don't think I'll buy a Dell, anyway 

will build my own when the mood/need arrives, better quality that way IMO


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by kilowatt1:_
> *jwark,
> 
> For what it's worth, I did not author the post I submitted. It was submiited purely as "food for thought"
> ...


Well kudos to you for inspiring that kind of behavior. Go ahead and ban me, like I care. Might as well ban my entire domain name if you want to actually get rid of me.


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## It Wasn't me (Nov 11, 2003)

Your not original Iv'e seen people have the *"Internet Tuff Guy attitude"* before. But I must admit you are one of the most Annoying, Belligerent, and Childish posters I have ever seen. Your not in here to prove your point with intelligent posts your here just to start trouble. You should leave like a man would but I see that would really be a stretch for you. And oh by the way they don't ban your name.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

jwark

Having nothing to say to someone that acts like you do to me and all others here.


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## Flrman1 (Jul 26, 2002)

Jwark you've crossed the line here. Stop the insults and personal attacks or be gone!


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## buck52 (Mar 9, 2001)

> _Originally posted by jwark:_
> *Well kudos to you for inspiring that kind of behavior. Go ahead and ban me, like I care. Might as well ban my entire domain name if you want to actually get rid of me. *


Howdy jwark....

your first few posts do not bode well here ...

show us all some of the computer prowess your few posts seem to indicate you think you have by helping out in the tech sections...

tread lightly or be gone

buck


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by It Wasn't me:_
> *Your not original Iv'e seen people have the "Internet Tuff Guy attitude" before. But I must admit you are one of the most Annoying, Belligerent, and Childish posters I have ever seen. Your not in here to prove your point with intelligent posts your here just to start trouble. You should leave like a man would but I see that would really be a stretch for you. And oh by the way they don't ban your name. *


I think it's more like you're wrong and can't admit it.


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by buck52:_
> *Howdy jwark....
> 
> your first few posts do not bode well here ...
> ...


ok, I'll take some time and show you what I've got


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

there, I just went down the list and answered every post in a row. didn't even pick and choose. Feel free to follow up on my posts and make me look like a fool, if you can.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by jwark:_
> * Feel free to follow up on my posts and make me look like a fool, if you can. *


People usually do a pretty good job at that without any help.

A word to the wise, feel free to stick around and help, it's not anyone's job to 'follow up on your posts' nor do we care to. I would guess by now, just from reading this post only, you've probably made a few ignore lists, so sadly, some folks won't see your ability or lack thereof


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## jwark (Jan 7, 2004)

I just love people who like to go around stating the obvious. I said feel free to follow up. How exactly does that translate to me saying you have to follow up? Can you even read?


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## Flrman1 (Jul 26, 2002)

jwark 

You have not made a very good first impression here and it is quite obvious to me that you are an instigator. 

Personally I've had about enough of your confrontational attitude! 

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!


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## Flrman1 (Jul 26, 2002)

I'm closing this thread as this has gone far enough.


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