# The Biden Thread



## MisterEd51

I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


Thank you for posting that.

I've been a member of the Republican Party a little over 50 years, early times when it actually reflected republican values. Definitely before Trump and even Reagan to some, but a lesser degree.

Nixon...what a let down. And yet, all he tried to do was spy on his competition and lie to Congress about it.
Pretty mild compared to the Trump element today lol!

Don't feel bad.
Your rhetoric isn't exactly new, sort of a creep from what was once conservatism to what is now national socialism, until it no longer reflects republican values. 
Funny how those 'isms' span such a wide variance of political philosophy and yet retain the same goals. Acceptance of domination. Authoritarian rule. And at any cost.
I even remember a time when Republicans worked to improve race relations rather than provoke discrimination.

Biden does have issues facing him he may not be able to solve.
Grave ones.
The National Socialist movement in the Trump camp is an obvious hurdle. The damage Trump committed and left behind as he exited the Office will be with us for decades no matter what party wins the next elections.
Trump also seems to have spawned an even more vicious movement within the GOP, with the likes of Cruz, Hawley, Jordan, Johnson and DeSantis.

But Biden also has problems within his own party.
There has been that far leftist element he needs to satisfy in order to maintain a Democratic influence at a party level, but not embrace it to the point it negatively polarizes the larger moderate element and of course, independents.
It doesn't look like Biden is getting much cooperation from his own party right now.



> It is disheartening to say....


Come on, ed .....with the rhetoric you've posted, you aren't disheartened at all.....you love it....it's all you have. With out your present commentary, you would have little to present in support of the current nationalist movement. 



> ..... Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime.


That's just sour grapes, ed 
Biden hasn't even tried to kill us yet lol!
Those clorox cocktails and the voodoo priestess Covid solutions Trump promoted were prime comedy....and deadly.
And unemployment?
While Trump bragged about his results......if you bothered to check out the stats between Obama and Trump, Obama actually reduced unemployment a greater degree.
And I used Government statistics generated under the Trump administration to prove it.
(BTW, I didn't vote for Obama  )



> Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge


Sounds more like you've never watched the movie lol!



> It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


Apparently reality isn't for everyone. 

Biden hasn't been and will likely never be the greatest President ever, but he isn't the one calling for sedition, insurrection and a civil war if he doesn't get his way.

Trump: jail him!


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ..............................Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. ......................


I considered posting this in the Trump thread, but it addresses, directly, your claim: * Nobody else even comes close.

Donald Trump Just Said the Quiet Part Out Loud *
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-overturn-election-mike-pence-1674436



> "If the Vice President (Mike Pence) had 'absolutely no right' to change the Presidential Election results in the Senate, despite fraud and many other irregularities, how come the Democrats and RINO Republicans, like Wacky Susan Collins, are desperately trying to pass legislation that will not allow the Vice President to change the results of the election?" Trump said.
> 
> "Actually, what they are saying, is that Mike Pence did have the right to change the outcome, and they now want to take that right away. Unfortunately, he didn't exercise that power, he could have overturned the Election!"
> 
> While the former president has been falsely claiming the 2020 Election was "rigged" against him for more than 14 months now, his latest statement was the first time that he has let slip that his voter fraud cries were part of intentions to completely overturn the results in his favor.


I fail to see how Biden could ever come close in comparison to the likes of Donal J Trump, a leader that at one time embraced a Covid death cult, tried to overthrow an election, and continues to argue for an overthrow of an elected government with calls for sedition, insurrection and implied civil war.

It's easy to name-call.
But it's meaningless when it's not backed up with examples.
( real examples, not made up stuff  )


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## MisterEd51

NOTICE I'm not going to respond to any posts that are made by people that are clueless. These posts belong in another thread. In other words don't bother posting here unless you want to make an intelligent contribution.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> NOTICE I'm not going to respond to any posts that are made by people that are clueless. These posts belong in another thread. In other words don't bother posting here unless you want to make an intelligent contribution.


That's OK by me.
Why break your routine, anyway LOL!



> These posts belong in another thread.


Well.......you did post a claim I intend to follow up on.



MisterEd51 said:


> ................................ It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. ..........................


Your words. Your claim.....but you don't want them addressed?
LOL!

You could close the thread, but I rather you wouldn't.
I like the topic


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## MisterEd51

I'm still waiting for an intelligent response. Maybe I expected too much.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I'm still waiting for an intelligent response. Maybe I expected too much.


Really, this is how you debate? 

Ed, the ball's in your court 

Prove, disprove or comment.....that's the way debate works .....unless all you want to do is pontificate.

How about this:

Trump > impeached twice.
Biden > elected President.

Comments?



(edited: removed irrelevant comment { Trump >2 }at beginning of post )


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## MisterEd51

I'm still waiting. All you have to do is disprove my initial comments. Since you haven't then I guess that is not possible. 

Give up trying to goad me into responding to unenlightened comments. I learned my lesson in the other thread.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I'm still waiting. All you have to do is disprove my initial comments. Since you haven't then I guess that is not possible.
> 
> Give up trying to goad me into responding to unenlightened comments. I learned my lesson in the other thread.


Ed.....you do realize these comments can be read by anyone?
You can avoid me with silly high school tactics, but the words, yours and mine will still be there.

This has already been addressed 


MisterEd51 said:


> ................................ It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close.


Nothing has changed.
You've not even attempted a rebuttal, and I fully understand why you won't...you can't.

And as far as silliness goes, you even attempted an analogy with a movie I suspect you didn't understand.

You can keep on posting that you're still waiting.
I have no problem with it 



> I learned my lesson in the other thread.


I'm doubtful


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## MisterEd51

Biden a politician, being used as a puppet by an enemy power, in his case the far left and other Marxists. Sounds like a Manchurian candidate to me.



> What does Manchurian candidate mean?
> 
> A Manchurian candidate is a person, especially a politician, being used as a puppet by an enemy power. The term is commonly used to indicate disloyalty or corruption, whether intentional or unintentional.


Manchurian candidate
https://www.dictionary.com/e/politics/manchurian-candidate/

I meant everything I said. This is a thread about Biden not Trump. If you want to bash Trump you already have a thread for that. I suggest you continue your Trump bashing there.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden a politician, being used as a puppet by an enemy power, in his case the far left and other Marxists. Sounds like a Manchurian candidate to me.
> 
> Manchurian candidate
> https://www.dictionary.com/e/politics/manchurian-candidate/
> 
> I meant everything I said. This is a thread about Biden not Trump. If you want to bash Trump you already have a thread for that. I suggest you continue your Trump bashing there.


Just because I might think you are an evil elf doesn't necessarily make you one.
I would need to produce evidence for it to be so.

So far you are zero on showing or demonstrating, even an inclination, that Biden is a puppet in any manner.

But wait.


> I meant everything I said.


Of course you did.
You simply avoid offering any evidence and seem to demand we take your word as a truth based in nothing more than an obvious rant.



> This is a thread about Biden not Trump.


And here you go back pedaling because you couldn't back up your initial claim.
It's about your claim of Biden being the worst President in recent history.
And that means comparisons will be made whether you like it or not.

Let me refresh your memory (  )

Your introductory post and focus to a topic which I addressed and will continue to address.


MisterEd51 said:


> ............................ It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. .......................


Ed, like I posted before, our words, our claims, your logic and mine....are here for all to read. All of it.
Please, stay true to your initial intentions. lol!
Or is this it? Just running off at the mouth for attention? Trolling?

I challenged you ( this is a debate, remember? ) to prove your initial statements.
And I am using the facts we all read about endlessly in news reports, to counter them.
But, let's face it, all you've been doing is running off at the mouth with the typical chatter that floats amongst extremist news media, blogs and fascist influencers.



> Sounds like a Manchurian candidate to me.


But you only make claims.
Sounds like you don't have any examples of your claims to post alongside your rant, Ed

Now let's look at the logic of your rant and the impact the definition you provided has on your claim as I positioned it earlier when Trump entered the conversation:

Definition:


> A _Manchurian candidate_ is a person, especially a politician, being used as a puppet by an enemy power. The term is commonly used to indicate disloyalty or corruption, whether intentional or unintentional.


If you follow that definition, you need to admit to us, the forum, if not for silently just for your self, that 
Trump fits that description wholly as in all aspects as we are currently learning in news reports.
Trump has a history of criminal activity. ( Trump + Roy Cohn ) As a civilian.
Trump has a history of criminal activity as a politician ( 2 Impeachments +...... )
Trump is currently under investigation for tax fraud in New York.
Trump is getting negative attention right now for sedition and insurrection by a Congressional panel.
We've just learned Trump was involved in attempting voter fraud. In more than just one way 
Trump's 2016 election committee had ties to Russian influence. And Russians did a lot of influencing.
Trump as President courted known dictators. 
The KKK, Neo-Nazi, white supremacists and militant militias were considered 'good people ' by Trump.

Holy moley...the list just keeps on keeping on, Ed. 

Yeah...I know. Your response will be...prove it.
Well, Ed....it's all listed here in this forum.
News and events with linkage. Verifiable, authoritative sources.
You know. The ones you'll likely hate and deny 
And I didn't even start those threads lol!

So, you claim Biden is a Manchurian candidate.....show us the evidence. Not opinion pieces.

You know......
When I look at 'Trump', I think Nixon got a raw deal 

Did you notice, I didn't even have to list any of Biden's faults to show your claim was worthless. 
Your hero is/was the worst President in recent history. Maybe even the entire history of the US.
And you opened up a door for discussing it.
:up:



BTW, as you'll soon learn, sophistry usually doesn't work well on me, so you'll have to try harder .


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## MisterEd51

What I didn't say from the beginning was I really didn't expect any intelligent responses on this thread. The real purpose of this thread was to draw people like you out and waste their time ranting about nonsense. You can go about with your rants. I will continue to ignore them.🤣


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> What I didn't say from the beginning was I really didn't expect any intelligent responses on this thread. The real purpose of this thread was to draw people like you out and waste their time ranting about nonsense. You can go about with your rants. I will continue to ignore them.🤣


In other words.....you were trolling the forum.
Shocking, just shocking I tell you.

Can I call'em or what 

Maybe you are an evil elf.


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## MisterEd51

I think you are trolling the thread I started.
Shocking, just shocking I tell you.
Can I call'em or what
That proves you are an evil elf.😈


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I think you are trolling the thread I started.
> Shocking, just shocking I tell you.
> Can I call'em or what
> That proves you are an evil elf.😈


It's often said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Thank you


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## Johnny b

That 'Manchurian' angle does get interesting when you look a bit closer at recent news.

* Trump's Mega-Fans in Moscow Declare They're 'Ready to Elect Him Again' *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donal...clare-theyre-ready-to-elect-him-again-in-2024



> "The city on a hill is again being taken over by the Trumpists. Donald already declared that he will become the 47th president of America and will figure things out with Russia and Putin," host Olga Skabeeva said on Monday's segment of the Russian TV show _60 Minutes_. *"Donald, we're waiting for you and are ready to elect you again."*


( bolding by me )

.................

And it looks like Tucker Carlson is acting more like an influencer than a newsman.
An influencer FOR Russian domination in the Ukraine.
And the Russians are worried Carlson may have gone too far putting his influence at risk.

* Kremlin TV Worries Tucker Carlson's Pro-Putin Bias Has Gone Too Far *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlsons-pro-putin-bias-has-gone-too-far-kremlin-tv-says


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## MisterEd51

My last two posts were just to tweak you...

I actually started this thread on a serious note and hoped to get at least some serious responses. Unfortunately, I expected too much. Your problem is you bring to the table nothing but the same old tired Trump hating rhetoric I have been seeing online and on TV. You add nothing new to the discussion. Why should I debate the same old lies and distortions you parrot from others. When you are ready to be serious about this and have an original thought let me know. If not I will just stop following this thread. Then you can go back to the Trump thread and continue your nonsense there.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> My last two posts were just to tweak you...
> 
> I actually started this thread on a serious note and hoped to get at least some serious responses. Unfortunately, I expected too much. Your problem is you bring to the table nothing but the same old tired Trump hating rhetoric I have been seeing online and on TV. You add nothing new to the discussion. Why should I debate the same old lies and distortions you parrot from others. When you are ready to be serious about this and have an original thought let me know. If not I will just stop following this thread. Then you can go back to the Trump thread and continue your nonsense there.


That 'troll' tag seems to have really scared you lol!
No worries.
It's not my style to close a thread like this.
Nor would I want you banned.....face it, you're my second best foil 

But you really should be honest with me.
It's pretty easy to see through your meandering logic.



> When you are ready to be serious about this and have an original thought let me know. If not I will just stop following this thread. Then you can go back to the Trump thread and continue your nonsense there.


Please. The whining doesn't improve your argument.
You started an argument about comparisons.
Well, I am 'playing your game'.
I just do it better.
( A lot better! )



MisterEd51 said:


> ..................... Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge................


About that 'Manchurian' thing.
Like I posted, you probably never saw or understood the movie, or you would have avoided the tag line.
It was more than just a cooperation and control of an 'asset'.
It was about mind control. It used to be termed 'brain washing' and the act required a lengthy time of incarceration and psychological reprogramming.
Guess who fills the time and location requirements for that task? ( LOL!!!! )
Why, the beauty pageant entrepreneur that spent time in Russia where claims of golden showers were rampant. And His name was not Biden 
Hint...he lost the last Presidential election 

Well....that was fun 



> Why should I debate the same old lies and distortions you parrot from others.


( You're whining again. )
Because you started debate with a claim.
It's up to you to defend it, not me.
And as I disagree and provide reasoning for my position, looks like you're in for a fun ride of your life 

And the most bizarre aspect of your argument is......... I don't have to defend Biden, I only have to show Trump is worse          



> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime.


Wow!


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## Johnny b

And if you really mean to ignore me, why keep addressing me?


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## Johnny b

Ed, I realize you'll probably tag me as biased, but really.....I just haven't seen this level of flagrant corruption in Biden, or any of the other Presidents during my life, with one exception.
Yes, it's Trump again.

* Trump's latest remarks on Pence and Jan. 6 rioters further test Republican loyalty *
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-lates...urther-test-republican-loyalty-012210337.html

And if you try to follow the logic of using Pence to overthrow a Presidential election, you'll not only realize he's the worst President in recent history, he's also potentially criminally insane.

We've all seen Biden get a little confused, even handle something with poor results, but nothing to the level of sedition, insurrection, implied threats of civil war or projections of insane reasoning that Trump accomplished and continues.

And there does seem to be a Republican backlash occurring because of Trump's latest rhetoric.


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## MisterEd51

The first post was just a statement of my opinion and nothing else. As the OP I am not required to debate it or to respond to any post after it. No bulling or name calling is going to change that. 

Please keep in mind this is "The Biden Thread". Please stay on topic.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The first post was just a statement of my opinion and nothing else. As the OP I am not required to debate it or to respond to any post after it. No bulling or name calling is going to change that.
> 
> Please keep in mind this is "The Biden Thread". Please stay on topic.


I suggest you discuss your problems with someone in TSG administration.

True, you do not have to defend your claim.
And unless I break TSG rules, I don't see why I should be restricted from addresing your claims.

And as far as bullying and name calling, please, stop with the whining.
It's not very manly in the 'conservative' sense.
And no, I'm not asking you to be a macho man....how about a dialog concerning the claims you've made?

Seems fair to me, but I'm just a TSG member. I have no sway over administration.
And if I did, I wouldn't be complaining, anyway.

You made a claim in your opening post that is the basis for discussion in this thread no matter how much you try to misdirect it now:
https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9873604


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close.........................


Well. I differ in opinion and am willing to challenge you to a debate over it......and as this is a forum for such conversations, it it appropriate.



> Please keep in mind this is "The Biden Thread". Please stay on topic.


It's a 'Biden' thread. There are two others.
Somehow this is the only one where you think you can censure anyone that proves you incorrect just because you are the thread starter.
This is important.
From past administration commentary, you are the thread starter. But you don't own the thread.
If you think something is unfair, tell it to administration.

And if you think I want this thread closed or am trying to close it, you are severely mistaken.
You started this debate and I'm getting my point across.

Contrary to your claim, Donald J Trump has been the worst President in recent history.


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## Johnny b

An interesting followup to one of my previous comments:


> And there does seem to be a Republican backlash occurring because of Trump's latest rhetoric.


* Republicans who impeached Trump outpace challengers in latest fundraising haul *
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...-challengers-latest-fundraising-hau-rcna14496

It'll be interesting to see how the worst President in recent history handles that!


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## MisterEd51

Now you have misconstrued what I said. Out of courtesy I nicely asked you to stay on topic. Naturally in character you have chosen to ignore that and try to control the topic. That is your right to do that and I know there is nothing I can do about it.

You have falsely assumed I asked for a debate about politics in general, especially Trump. That is far from the truth. I only wanted to make a statement and I did. 

I will as you requested not try to close the thread. As your right you are free to babble on as much as you want. As my right I can choose to respond or not to your posts or their content. I am fine as long as you understand that. So go forth with wasting your time. I look forward to it. If you get bored just invite some of your Trump hating buddies to this thread. You might even get them to talk about Biden.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Now you have misconstrued what I said. Out of courtesy I nicely asked you to stay on topic. Naturally in character you have chosen to ignore that and try to control the topic. That is your right to do that and I know there is nothing I can do about it.
> 
> You have falsely assumed I asked for a debate about politics in general, especially Trump. That is far from the truth. I only wanted to make a statement and I did.
> 
> I will as you requested not try to close the thread. As your right you are free to babble on as much as you want. As my right I can choose to respond or not to your posts or their content. I am fine as long as you understand that. So go forth with wasting your time. I look forward to it. If you get bored just invite some of your Trump hating buddies to this thread. You might even get them to talk about Biden.


I've asked you politely to stop with the whining.
Why do you persist?



> You have falsely assumed I asked for a debate about politics in general, especially Trump. That is far from the truth. I only wanted to make a statement and I did.


You chose the topic, Ed.
You claimed ......Biden was the worst President in your life time.
How the hell can politics and their results be ignored or denied?
They are a factor in determining the effectiveness of the office holder along with issues of ethics and morality.
I'm calling BS on your feeble claims and the logic ( whatever  ) you use.
You wanted to make a statement and you did.
Now you whine when shown your opinion isn't factual. Doesn't jibe with reality.

Can you or can you not back up the claim YOU made as the focus of your opening post?
If you can, please post it because all you are doing now is increasing your post count.
I'd call it for what it is, but it would simply be something else to whine about.



> As your right you are free to babble on as much as you want.


Thank you for permission lol!



> As my right I can choose to respond or not to your posts or their content.


Translation: 'I hope to hell that gets me out of the mess I made'.

Ever consider rethinking that claim?


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## MisterEd51

No to all questions. It will continue to be no. I don't know whether you are trying to be funny or just annoying. You don't know me so I will give you a heads up. No amount of bullying me or throwing lies and made up nonsene at me is going to make me change my views. Give it up. You have already lost. Just be smart about it and save your propiganda for somebody that cares to listen to it.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> No to all questions. It will continue to be no. I don't know whether you are trying to be funny or just annoying. You don't know me so I will give you a heads up. No amount of bullying me or throwing lies and made up nonsene at me is going to make me change my views. Give it up. You have already lost. Just be smart about it and save your propiganda for somebody that cares to listen to it.


LOL!

You funny guy 

:up:


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> No to all questions. It will continue to be no. I don't know whether you are trying to be funny or just annoying. .......................


Not trying to be funny.
( it just has the appearance of being easy )
Debate can be annoying. Especially when there doesn't seem to be a way to logically express a defensible position.
I realize you're upset, but I won't give up on you.



> It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime.


What kind of criteria did you use to determine that?
I hope you can get around this resistance:


> No to all questions.


You do make it difficult to understand the validity of your claims beyond an emotional outburst.

How about attempting to over throwing a legal government?
Surely you have a position about that?

Or....how about attempting to corrupt the election process?
Still, 'No'?

Do you see such activities as dangerous to your freedom and Constitutional Rights?


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## MisterEd51

🥜🥜🥜


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> 🥜🥜🥜




Yeah, tough questions?


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## Johnny b

I just ran into an interesting headline.
It could have gone into the Covid thread, but it had implications that I suspect most Trump supporters are blind to and in their minds using their logic, would be an inexcusable abuse of power.

From the Fox News website.

* Rand Paul: COVID edicts that make no scientific sense deserve a 'massive boycott' *
https://www.foxnews.com/media/rand-paul-boycott-of-government-covid-edicts



> Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., joined "America Reports" Wednesday to react to a new study from Johns Hopkins University that concluded COVID lockdowns did more harm than good because they failed to reduce mortality and were "devastating" to the economy.


The only lockdown on a national level was ordered by Trump.


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## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. .................


Just another example of evilness to consider in regards to your claim.
Ed......We haven't seen any recent Presidents, other than Trump, try a maneuver like this :

* Trump considered blanket pardons for Jan. 6 rioters before he left office  *
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...-jan-6-rioters-before-he-left-office-00004738



> The comments have triggered complaints among members of the House Jan. 6 committee that Trump is engaging in witness tampering.
> 
> A spokesperson for Trump declined to comment.


Not only was he considering protecting the 'civilian troops' he sent to attack Congress, he obviously seems to have thought it would protect himself by limiting forced testimony of his 'civilian troops' that would tie him to sedition and insurrection.

You don't like Biden, but won't tell us why.
But he's obviously not 'the worst President'. Not yet, anyway.
And he simply doesn't have the malevolent history that Trump has. None of the recent Presidents come close, even ones I didn't like!


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## Johnny b

It seems a few influential Republicans aren't buying into Trump's pardons for sedition and insurrection.

* McConnell says he opposes shortening sentences for Jan. 6 rioters after Trump proposed pardons *
https://www.axios.com/mcconnell-oppose-sentence-jan-6-360b0e32-92f6-49f7-a768-d6e95ccf9cc2.html



> "What we saw here on January 6th was an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to another, which had never happened before in our country," he added.





> * which had never happened before in our country *


That's a Republican, the Senate Minority Leader.....referring to the seditious acts and attempted insurrection of Jan 6 2021, of a crowd lead and provoked to violence by DJ Trump.

I suspect Historians will eventually list Trump as the all time worst President.
A few do currently, but on a search, most seem to place him 2nd to 4th place in the 'worst 'column.


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## Johnny b

Looks like Ed has come and gone without leaving a comment.
Maybe this thread has become too much of a downer for him?

Well, time for a little humor we all can enjoy.
A bit of a stretch, but imo relevant. 
Skip to minute 4:30 for the juicy stuff.


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## Couriant

OK, I have been meaning to post in here with my mod cap on but have been getting sidetracked.

@MisterEd51 your thread is Titled "The Biden Thread" which is a little misleading. As you may be aware, there is another thread called "The Trump Thread" which has posts regarding what Trump has been up to. When I saw this thread I thought it would be the same deal as the other but for what Biden is/is not doing but it seems that this is more of your own opinion, which you have a right to, and other people should be respectful of that but also have the right to say, 'well my opinion is x is more worse'.

So if this is more of an opinion piece then I will change the thread name. If it's meant to be posting on things that Biden is/is not doing, then keep it as that and I will change the thread name and start a new one for Biden Related news stories.

Furthermore, when you say you are 'looking for intelligent responses', that to me is a little disrespectful and it seems that you don't want to hear anyone else's opinions unless it reflects yours. I don't know how often that you visit Controversial Topics, but when it becomes about politics, there are only a few (or maybe 1...  people that are actively responding to the threads, and a lot of that does rant about Trump rather than Biden.

So what is this thread going to be about? Your opinion of Biden, or A Biden Thread to discuss his actions like the Trump thread is like?

@Johnny b If you are going to post things about Trump that is not strictly relevant to this thread (like your last post), please post in the Trump Thread instead. It's starting to look like this one is being hijacked and we don't need more than 1 thread about the same person... just like we don't want multiple threads for the same technical issue 

Thank you for (hopefully) understanding.


----------



## Johnny b

Understood.

IMO....this thread should be re-defined, but what about duplication of Brigham's efforts?
Maybe the two should be folded into one if the discussion is about Biden in general.

The way it is now in Ed's thread, he seems pretty insistent on it being about his opinion and I honestly don't see how comparisons can be avoided.....and Trump is the front runner for the title ( edit: worst ) Ed brought 'to the table'.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden was thought by many supporters to be moderate but has shown that he mainly has governed by what the far left wants. Is that what the Democrat voters really want?

Everything he does seem contrary to what the average person might want or expect. He doesn't seem to care about anything but politics.

His popularity has come down so much that you would think that he would adjust things and stop the slide. So far he seems oblivious to this. More and more Democrats are alarmed by this with some accepting big losses in November.

When I was a Democrat I and others like me thought of ourselves as Liberals. Biden is obviously far to the left of that. That is why I could never vote for anyone like that.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden was thought by many supporters to be moderate but has shown that he mainly has governed by what the far left wants. Is that what the Democrat voters really want?
> 
> Everything he does seem contrary to what the average person might want or expect. He doesn't seem to care about anything but politics.
> 
> His popularity has come down so much that you would think that he would adjust things and stop the slide. So far he seems oblivious to this. More and more Democrats are alarmed by this with some accepting big losses in November.
> 
> When I was a Democrat I and others like me thought of ourselves as Liberals. Biden is obviously far to the left of that. That is why I could never vote for anyone like that.


Well, I appreciate your current approach to the discussion even though you are avoiding the premise you started with.
I've stated the case that Biden, so far, has not been the worst President in recent history and so far that stands unchallenged and obviously correct.



> Biden was thought by many supporters to be moderate....


A moderate Liberal, yes.
'Moderate or moderation' in terms of a political position really resides to a greater degree in a field of Independents. Centrists. Of course, not as an absolute, a generality.



> .... but has shown that he mainly has governed by what the far left wants.


As Ronald Reagan would have quipped.....and there you go.
Uh...no.
But the far left as an extremist group does have an influence just by being part of the Party membership.
A similar situation with the GOP. Just to a greater degree at this time ( edit: referencing the GOP ).

I have addressed the conflict within the Democrat Party elsewhere in the forum and there is no similarity in the intentions between the Far Left and Biden to be seen.
You really should read it.
In your case, likely very informative as to the realities within the Democrat Party and even my position on socialism, which I don't believe you understand ( socialism, not me  , well that too lol ).

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-hard-core-democrat-socialists-vs-trump.1232870/



> Is that what the Democrat voters really want?


IMO, mostly what Democrat voters want is National Socialism ( Trump et all ) gone.
A lot of Independents most likely feel the same and of course the Never Trump crowd in the GOP.
So it's really a question of, what does that alliance want. Well, no more 'Trumps' is pretty high on that list. He has been the worst President in recent history, as I've explained.

Personally, I'd like to see a Republican sitting in the Oval Office.
Just not the fakes and malevolent opportunists of today that call themselves 'Republicans' while barking like mad dogs and screaming 'RINO' at anyone that disagrees with them.
Sadly/unfortunately, the current influence and acceptance is tilted toward extremism.

....................



> Everything he does seem contrary to what the average person might want or expect.


'Everything'?
No politician can please everyone.
So when you claim 'everything he does', what does that entail?
Who is the 'average person'?

You argue he's a hard core socialist and yet condemn him for not delivering the wants and expectations of the public.
I truly think you don't know what you are talking about.
I suspect a logical fallacy there 



> He doesn't seem to care about anything but politics.


Obviously not any approval for the current 'politics' of your party 
Qanon, KKK, white supremacy, nationalist supremacy, national socialism, Tea Party extremism, and Libertarian Anarchy.....did I leave anything out?
Oh yeah.....sedition and insurrection. How could I ever forget that pair (  )
Good one  



> His popularity has come down so much that you would think that he would adjust things and stop the slide.


( In other words, you think the Presidency should be ruled by popularity contests? )

Well, the same complaint could be said about most Presidents.
Trump exited the office on a low so bad, even Obama had higher approval.....and Trump did little to try improve it. His initial response to the Covid pandemic has been reported to have cost several hundred thousand needless deaths.
Most sane people don't want to die, but even today, two years after the start of this pandemic, there remains a resistance to practicing safe health by a large segment of our population. And it's mostly based on politics.

I remember your position on masks. Political from what I remember.
It puts you in the position of appearing to be associated with a death cult, Ed.
That you demand to live on the brink of infection and death for political reasons, is not a logical argument to impose upon everyone else.
Biden is not likely to satisfy those embracing the concept of suicide.
The current scale of it seems a society killer.
Trump played 'macho man' and death followed him, literally.
No thanks.

Can Biden do better? Complicated question, but the answer is 'yes'.
And he'll be judged on that the next election......if elements of your Party don't over throw the government by that time, that is.



> So far he seems oblivious to this.


Blather.

.......................
BINGO 



> When I was a Democrat I and others like me thought of ourselves as Liberals.


Ed.


The whining was a hint.
I've noticed over time that many so called Democrats voted for Trump and wondered why.
Why rub elbows with those on the lunatic fringe ( as I pointed out earlier ) unless they were of extremist persuasions themselves and 'looking for a home'.

Biden will be tested over the next few years and judged accordingly in the next election.....if the radical elements in the GOP don't overthrow the government beforehand.
However, Trump currently holds the title of worst President in recent history.
Worst of all.....his deeds were intentional.
And that may wind up keeping his name high in the 'worst' column for all eternity.


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> Referring to an earlier post:
> https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9874308
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/media/rand-paul-boycott-of-government-covid-edicts
> 
> I found that 'Johns Hopkins' article.
> Turns out it wasn't released or approved or had any input from Johns Hopkins itself.
> One of the three authors was affiliated with Johns Hopkins and while the logo on the document contained a Johns Hopkins letterhead, it also contained this disclaimer:
> 
> *"The views expressed in each working
> paper are those of the authors and not necessarily those of the institutions that the authors are
> affiliated with.'*
> 
> And yet, that isn't mentioned in the Fox article or the many right wing online news sites I found presenting it.
> 
> https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/f...ffects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf


Is this appropriate for this thread? or maybe a Fox 'News' thread? 

I have spoken to MrEd and it is decided that this thread should be about Biden in general and (i assume) his current term so please refrain from posting about other people that is not relevant to this topic. Thanks for understanding.


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> Is this appropriate for this thread? or maybe a Fox 'News' thread?
> 
> I have spoken to MrEd and it is decided that this thread should be about Biden in general and (i assume) his current term so please refrain from posting about other people that is not relevant to this topic. Thanks for understanding.


The problem I have it's too late to be able to edit the post I'm referring to.
But I'll move the one in question to keep the peace


----------



## Wino

I'm a moderate left leaner and don't particularly care for Biden other than he is not Trump, which makes me ecstatic and hopeful this nation has passed it's infantile temper tantrum stage and never again will elect another charlatan that wishes to destroy the nation and piss on the Constitution. At this point in time I really don't much care which party is in control as long as it isn't Trumpism. Unfortunately, I fear Biden may be the catalyst for this nations demise should he not pull us from under the putrid recent past administration.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> ................
> 
> ...........Unfortunately, I fear Biden may be the catalyst for this nations demise should he not pull us from under the putrid recent past administration.


You and I have kicked around a lot of topics in the last 2 decades at TSG.
Here we are now looking at the potential downfall/failure of our society.

It does concern me that Biden could fail.
And I don't currently see leadership in either party that would do much better in resisting the current appeal with national socialism ( aka fascism ).

All societies eventually come to an end, replaced too often in violent upheaval.
The US has had a good run compared to many other nations, but that might be over in the near future.
It will be over when the citizenry can no longer express it's will through the ballot box.


----------



## MisterEd51

It started with an election in Virginia to show that people have had enough. Now it is slowly spreading to other states and even to some other countries. If only Biden would grow some and develop the courage to show that he is a real president. If he did that the mandate madness would end tomorrow. Unfortunately, I think the only way this will end is when some courageous Democrats descend to Biden's basement bunker, shake him from his sleepiness and say to him "Its time to end this Mr. President".


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> It started with an election in Virginia to show that people have had enough. Now it is slowly spreading to other states and even to some other countries. If only Biden would grow some and develop the courage to show that he is a real president. If he did that the mandate madness would end tomorrow. Unfortunately, I think the only way this will end is when some courageous Democrats descend to Biden's basement bunker, shake him from his sleepiness and say to him "Its time to end this Mr. President".


Since you've identified yourself as a supporter of Trump and his policies in the past, your statement of wanting Biden to 'show some courage' and 'grow some', seems rather contradictory and disingenuous.
We know you want him to fail ! ( you are a Trump supporter after all....  )



> If he did that the mandate madness would end tomorrow.


No, that would be a weakness when you base it on a popularity contest.
That situation deserves focus on the consideration of the issues, not your political wishes.



> Unfortunately, I think the only way this will end is when some courageous Democrats descend to Biden's basement bunker, shake him from his sleepiness and say to him "Its time to end this Mr. President".


Is that supposed to be a joke?
Seriously, after all that happened January 6th 2021, you think using force is a solution?
Like the Trump movement attempted?

Trump....I never wanted force used against him, no one here at TSG even suggested such a thing.....I just wanted him arrested.  And it could still happen 

And as far as 'ending' the mandates, that will likely happen when the pandemic ends.
And it will take more involvement than the President.
There is a tremendous number of mandates that are generated on state and local levels of which Biden has no control.


----------



## Johnny b

Alex Jones warned us all.
Chemtrails 

I just looked out my kitchen window this morning and the cold blue sky was full of ....you guessed it....criss-crossing chemtrails!

When is Biden going to end these nefarious mind control practices?






I have an inquiring mind and I WANT to know!!
( lol! )


----------



## Johnny b

On a more serious turn.....

I remember 4 years ago, the Trump supporters embracing the Russians as Trump patriots.
I remember pointing out Russia was not a friend of the US. Actually, an enemy....that Trump embraced as they 'helped' him into office.

An now here we are.
Biden now has to deal with that enemy and it looks like Russian aggression could get ugly very quickly in the Ukraine.

* Biden warns Americans in Ukraine to leave, says sending troops to evacuate would be 'world war' *
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/wh...ave-ukraine-russia-troops-world-war-rcna15781


----------



## Johnny b

So, how does Alex address the Ukraine situation?

https://www.infowars.com/posts/that...ve-ukraine-shoots-down-reports-of-evacuation/
Last paragraph :


> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov dismissed a recent UK claim and British Deputy Prime Minister Dominic Raab's threats toward the Kremlin as an attempt to fuel drama and "create a tragedy that, however, looks more like a comedy."


A comedy?

I do remember an AJ video where Alex claimed his mind had been altered by Chemtrails....and it could explain a lot


----------



## Brigham

I see Biden has appointed a very unusual Secretary to deal with nuclear waste.


----------



## MisterEd51

Brigham said:


> I see Biden has appointed a very unusual Secretary to deal with nuclear waste.


Apparently his academic credentials was not the most important consideration.


----------



## Johnny b

That is rather disturbing lol!


----------



## Couriant

Brigham said:


> I see Biden has appointed a very unusual Secretary to deal with nuclear waste.





mystateline.com said:


> https://www.mystateline.com/news/po...ole-playing-fetishist-for-nuclear-waste-post/
> 
> Brinton,* a graduate of MIT with dual master's degrees in nuclear engineering and technology,* has also been an activist for Global Zero and the gay and transgender suicide prevention organization, The Trevor Project, and has advocated against gay conversion therapy.
> 
> *He previously advised President Donald Trump on nuclear waste matters*, according to *The Washington Examiner*.


I fail to see why it's unusual. The person seems to be qualified. Just because they have a different lifestyle doesn't mean they are not.


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> I fail to see why it's unusual. The person seems to be qualified. Just because they have a different lifestyle doesn't mean they are not.


'His' academic qualifications aren't the issue.

A little more about 'the person':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brinton

IMO, a bit of a work place distraction.










Wouldn't be my first choice


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> 'His' academic qualifications aren't the issue.
> 
> A little more about 'the person':
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brinton
> 
> IMO, a bit of a work place distraction.
> 
> View attachment 294381
> 
> 
> Wouldn't be my first choice


Well as long as it's not happening at work...


----------



## MisterEd51

Couriant said:


> I fail to see why it's unusual. The person seems to be qualified. Just because they have a different lifestyle doesn't mean they are not.


It's not unusual for somebody trying to appease the far left. Very unusual for mainstream America. For the past year Biden has shown that appeasing the far left is usually a deciding factor in deciding among people he appoints or nominates.

The person being discussed unless I hear otherwise is probably well qualified. My biggest complaint is when Biden chooses someone who is so far to the left that that alone makes them unqualified for the job they are expected to do.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ........................My biggest complaint is when Biden chooses someone who is so far to the left that that alone makes them unqualified for the job they are expected to do.


To start with, Brinton is not a Secretary of anything.
He's an appointed assistant secretary. And it was to an office/division within the Office of Nuclear Energy. Namely: 'Deputy Assistant Secretary of Spent Fuel and Waste Disposition'.
Mountain...meet....molehill.

Brinton does appear qualified for the position from an academic pov and experience in the field.
But....and it's rather obvious....he has had and still continues to express characteristics and traits outside of accepted norms, that make it difficult to take him seriously.



> Biden chooses someone ....


But did Biden choose to hire him?
It's easy to claim the Biden Administration did, but did Biden?
I can find a link to who appointed Huff.
So far, nothing specifically on Brinton.

What ever, imo, a poor choice. And not so much as what his personal life may be like, it's how he expresses it visually/publicly. In his own way, Trump did much the same.

But now there is a problem I suspect wasn't considered when hiring Brinton.
If the guy doesn't pan out, if fired or demoted, there is a large group that will claim discrimination and the Biden Administration would likely get a black eye from the experience. And criticism would also likely come from the alt-right if only to publicly castigate Biden.



> .... someone who is so far to the left....


Please enlighten us.
What are the politics of Brinton?
His position on socialism?
Other political factors ( besides sexuality ) ?


----------



## Couriant

MisterEd51 said:


> The person being discussed unless I hear otherwise is probably well qualified. My biggest complaint is when Biden chooses someone who is so far to the left that that alone makes them unqualified for the job they are expected to do.


So you have already judged him because of his views? Unless there is some kind of direct conflict of interest then they should not be denied a job because they are Democratic leaning, or they like to think they are some kind of animal...

Should the Post Master General be disqualified because he is a far right member? or should he be disqualified because he has strong ties to the Trump campaign and could easily make changes to sway or prevent legitimate votes?

If you can show me something tangible other than 'he's far left with a kinky obsession' then my position on the person (not the affiliated party) can be changed. Besides, all I see that it was the administration, not Biden directly that appointed him. Unless I am missing something? @Johnny b how does these appointments actually go?


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> ........................ @Johnny b how does these appointments actually go?


For Brinton's position, I don't know at this time.
But I am interested on what ever the process was, out of curiosity.


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> For Brinton's position, I don't know at this time.
> But I am interested on what ever the process was, out of curiosity.


Likewise.


----------



## MisterEd51

Couriant said:


> So you have already judged him because of his views? Unless there is some kind of direct conflict of interest then they should not be denied a job because they are Democratic leaning, or they like to think they are some kind of animal...


Please reread my post. I said "The person being discussed unless I hear otherwise is probably well qualified. ". I haven't judged anyone.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Please reread my post. I said "The person being discussed unless I hear otherwise is probably well qualified. ". I haven't judged anyone.


BS!

You just posted he was far left.
Why did you judge him in that respect?


----------



## MisterEd51

I would like some clarity. Do Biden supporters agree with his far left agenda? 

I realize Biden likes to claim he is a moderate. That's just the politician in him. A politician will tell people what they want to hear. They will then do just the opposite because they think the average person is not smart enough to know what's really going on.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I would like some clarity. ..............


I'd like to see your response to questions asked of you, first.


----------



## Wino

Not a Biden fan, but I'm all for the BBB program, rolling back Trump tax cuts and anything that supports infrastructure. I'm happy we're out of Afghanistan as ugly as the exit was, at least we're out. I'm for postal reform and against privatization of same. Believe DeJoy is an idiot as was the guy who appointed him.


----------



## MisterEd51

I only care about what's best for our country. Biden has named people to the government from the EPA to the DOD with an emphasis on the left's green agenda. The Democrats keep saying time is running out. They need to act now or global warming's affects will be irreversible. I have been following this for over thirty years now. I have yet to hear any comprehensive plan to solve climate change aka global warming. Anyone that says there is a "plan" is either lying or naive at best.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I only care about what's best for our country. Biden has named people to the government from the EPA to the DOD with an emphasis on the left's green agenda. The Democrats keep saying time is running out. They need to act now or global warming's affects will be irreversible. I have been following this for over thirty years now. I have yet to hear any comprehensive plan to solve climate change aka global warming. Anyone that says there is a "plan" is either lying or naive at best.


And how does that address the questions asked of you?
Remember, it's your thread to defend.
And dodging questions makes you look weak. Is that what you want?


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Not a Biden fan, but I'm all for the BBB program, rolling back Trump tax cuts and anything that supports infrastructure. I'm happy we're out of Afghanistan as ugly as the exit was, at least we're out. I'm for postal reform and against privatization of same. Believe DeJoy is an idiot as was the guy who appointed him.


The highest inflation in 40 years is mostly do to the federal governments record spending most of which is borrowed and added to the national debt. If the government doesn't back off with such excessive spending the inflation could easily spiral out of control.

One big problem for BBB is that the 10 year time it covers only has about three years of funding. Many of the programs have no sunset clause which means that these programs will continue forever unless the Congress passes a new law in the future to end them. The chance of Democrats voluntarily ending an entitlement is zero.


----------



## Johnny b

Is this thread all about 'name calling' with out any logic or reason for 'the claim'?


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Not a Biden fan, but I'm all for the BBB program, rolling back Trump tax cuts and anything that supports infrastructure. I'm happy we're out of Afghanistan as ugly as the exit was, at least we're out. I'm for postal reform and against privatization of same. Believe DeJoy is an idiot as was the guy who appointed him.


Not a fan, either.
But I try to be a realist.
Biden's got a lot that needs attention and a GOP that's more interested in crashing the 'system' in a power grab than attending to the needs of our society.

The Russians are an obvious problem he'll have to deal with.
I remember well the comments here several years ago and in the press ( the alt right press ) at the time, about how the Russians were our 'friends' and we shouldn't be critical of Trump's admiration of Putin ( and Xi Jinping...although that turned sour  ).
I argued they weren't our friends......and here we are now.

Trump GOP et al, sided with an ex -Communist that had assumed the role of an authoritarian....what ever could go wrong?

Inflation?
I can think of a much more important issue.
How can Biden stop the destructive alt right from destroying a federal republic elected by a free society? ( ours )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ..............................Do Biden supporters agree with his far left agenda?
> 
> ............................


I read a lot of news media and the only ones I remember mentioning Biden's alleged far leftist agenda seem to be the same one's that have given favorable press to the attempted overthrow of our federal government back on January 6, 2021.
Not a lot of credibility there, imo.

What is this 'far left' agenda of Biden that you speak of?


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> The highest inflation in 40 years is mostly do to the federal governments record spending most of which is borrowed and added to the national debt. If the government doesn't back off with such excessive spending the inflation could easily spiral out of control.
> 
> One big problem for BBB is that the 10 year time it covers only has about three years of funding. Many of the programs have no sunset clause which means that these programs will continue forever unless the Congress passes a new law in the future to end them. The chance of Democrats voluntarily ending an entitlement is zero.


I lay current inflation at the feet of DJT and his tax cuts for the rich and the many import tariffs he enacted that hurt no one but consumers and accomplished zilch. Big oil and big agg and greed figure in, too. Mother nature hasn't been much help, either.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> I lay current inflation at the feet of DJT and his tax cuts for the rich and the many import tariffs he enacted that hurt no one but consumers and accomplished zilch. Big oil and big agg and greed figure in, too. Mother nature hasn't been much help, either.


The tax cuts spurred a big economic boom, the lowest employment in 50 years, and real wage increases. This was only upended by COVID-19. Sure there is low employment and big wage increases under Biden but record inflation has wiped out wage gains the last two years. In fact inflation is increasing faster than wages so real income has gone down.

Inflation did not spike until 2021. Last I heard that is when Biden took over. That means its Biden's problem to solve. So far Biden's only solution is to pass BBB. Yea right! Borrowing trillions of dollars will solve inflation. With that kind of thinking maybe borrowing and spending another 30 trillion dollars will cancel the national debt. BTW, I must have missed that lesson when I studied economics in college.

If you asked any company right now one of the biggest cost of doing business is energy costs. Biden did nobody any favors by killing the Keystone XL pipeline and putting a moratorium on drilling on federal lands. The U.S. went from being energy independent to energy dependent on the likes of OPEC and the Russians. Biden even begged OPEC to increase production. They responded by ignoring him. After Biden killed the Keystone pipeline he turned around and gave the go ahead for the Nord Stream 2. Between Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 Russia has a stranglehold on the Europeans energy needs. That is why the Europeans have been reluctant to join the United States in opposing the impending invasion of the Ukraine.










Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2022
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I lay current inflation at the feet of DJT and his tax cuts for the rich and the many import tariffs he enacted that hurt no one but consumers and accomplished zilch. Big oil and big agg and greed figure in, too. Mother nature hasn't been much help, either.


The 'Perfect Storm'.

GW Bush and the middle East.
GW Bush and the 2008 Great Recession.
Trump tariffs.
Trump fiscal policies.
Covid 19
Trump economic policies.
Qanon
Sedition
Insurrection

Poor Biden 

The alt right wants to cut off funding while complaining Biden isn't doing anything.

Maybe it's time to become a prepper?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The tax cuts spurred a big economic boom, the lowest employment in 50 years, and real wage increases. .............................


Actually, that's just a 'numbers' game.
The biggest reduction in unemployment was actually done by Obama with Trump driving the numbers a little lower until the pandemic struck.

This direct link is for 2012 to 2022
It can be reconfigured for 2008 to 2022
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000










So....I'm again calling BS on one of your claims.


----------



## Johnny b

BTW. I neither liked or voted for Obama 

But the above is reality.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The tax cuts spurred a big economic boom,...................


( sigh!  )

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-to-debunk-trumps-false-claims-about-the-economy

Just a little .....


> The key point, which Trump failed to mention, is that there is still no sign of the surge in capital spending and wages that the White House claimed the tax cut would generate. Rather than investing in new offices and equipment, many corporations took the money they saved and spent it on stock buybacks-thus boosting the net worth of their C.E.O.s and stockholders. Workers got very little, and future taxpayers got landed with a huge bill. The tax cut was financed by issuing debt, which has risen by about $2.9 trillion since Trump took office.


Shocking, just shocking I tell you (  )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...................
> 
> Inflation did not spike until 2021. Last I heard that is when Biden took over. That means its Biden's problem to solve................


Well....hell yeah.
But didn't you get the point.....he inherited the problem from Trump. 
And you seem to be complaining about what it costs to correct what Trump and company damaged.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .......................
> 
> If you asked any company right now one of the biggest cost of doing business is energy costs. Biden did nobody any favors by killing the Keystone XL pipeline and putting a moratorium on drilling on federal lands. ....................


Well, I begrudgingly have to agree.
But I have to admit to a financial bias there.
It did temporarily hurt share prices on several of my stock holdings.
But the dividends held steady.



> The U.S. went from being energy independent to energy dependent on the likes of OPEC and the Russians.


You just made that up.
The pipeline wasn't completed, there was no oil in transit.
Other than Covid, not much has changed the stats below.

The majority of our oil imports still come from Canada and natural gas is what brought most of our petroleum independence.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php










Again, I'm calling BS.


----------



## Wino

Keystone was a boondoggle - helped no one but Canada and China with USA getting most of the pollution. It's survival or not has naught to do with oil prices today, past or future.


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> Well....hell yeah.
> But didn't you get the point.....he inherited the problem from Trump.
> And you seem to be complaining about what it costs to correct what Trump and company damaged.


And Trump inherited his problems from the Obama/Biden team. Nice try.

Still its Biden's problem now. He's still got three more years. The problem is Biden will probably make an even bigger mess of the economy by then.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> And Trump inherited his problems from the Obama/Biden team. Nice try.
> 
> .............................


Of course Trump inherited the office and all that went with it.
And look at what happened-----> 

But what problems are you now claiming?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Still its Biden's problem now. He's still got three more years. The problem is Biden will probably make an even bigger mess of the economy by then.


( sigh! )

3 more years of whining.

Yes, it is Biden's job, as well as all of Congress....to address and solve the problems left at the close of Trump's term in office.

And here you are complaining about the cost.
You ought to be glad an AOC isn't President.
She only wanted 90 trillion dollars just for a 'green sweep'!!!!!!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .................................. BTW, I must have missed that lesson when I studied economics in college.
> ............................


Could be 
And from a Random thread, possibly high school algebra, too 

lol!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I only care about what's best for our country.................................


What is the 'best' for our country?

How about the issue of supporting and committing acts of sedition and insurrection?
Everyone knows it happened. It was video taped and even televised.

I've had the feeling the DOJ has been too lax on addressing those threats to our freedoms, the Constitution ....and our way of life.

Do you think Biden should toughen up and order massive arrests?

Do you think it's too late and we should conform to the antics of the Trump movement?
And if not the Trumps, who else?

Or, like many of the far right news outlets, do you see those participants as heroes and patriots?


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden: 'I'm convinced' Putin plans to invade Ukraine *
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-im-convinced-putin-plans-to-invade-ukraine-225250690.html



> In remarks delivered from the White House on Friday, President Biden said he was certain that Russian President Vladimir Putin would invade Ukraine, thus plunging Europe into war.


I hope Biden is able to avert the conflict with Russia.

But his problem also has a domestic side.
With Putin having installed Trump as our previous President, Putin also gained indirect support in Congress. From the likes of Jordan to Cruz and Howley.

So, Biden's new problem also entails potential acts of treason as to whether the alt-right teams with Putin in an attempt to unseat Biden, potentially using existing alt-right militant militias as the means.

Will the GOP openly support alt-right anarchy?
And how will Biden address it?


----------



## Johnny b

Hmmm?

And here we go with an example of alt-right commentary obviously designed to marginalize Putin's threats:

* Fox Host Says Ukraine Threat Fabricated to Distract From Fox's Bogus Durham Furor *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/foxs-...threat-is-ruse-to-distract-from-durham-report



> With the world on edge as Russia inches seemingly closer to war and continues to amass troops at the Ukraine border, Fox Business Network host Maria Bartiromo declared multiple times on Wednesday that the White House has been fabricating the threat to Ukraine to distract from a much bigger issue.


I wonder what Ms. B thinks of this?

* John Durham says 'members of the media' may have 'misinterpreted' claims he made in a recent court filing *
https://www.businessinsider.com/durham-says-media-may-have-misinterpreted-previous-filing-2022-2

and this?

*John Durham distances himself from right-wing furor*
https://www.axios.com/john-durham-michael-sussman-filing-3626fedf-a316-470b-92ea-c8077bfa0249.html


> John Durham, the special counsel looking into the government's investigation of Russian election interference, distanced himself from reports in conservative media that a motion he filed last week implied Hillary Clinton's campaign paid to spy on Trump White House servers, according to the New York Times.


Could Ms B, actually be a Putin supporter by way of the alt-right movement?
Shocking. Just shocking I tell you!

( well, she DOES represent Fox News interests so maybe it's not really THAT shocking after all )


----------



## Johnny b

There's sure to be a lot of whining and criticism of one of Biden's reactions to future Russian aggression.
I expect to hear from the Trump community.....'how dare a US President threaten a hostile enemy' like this:
( After all, it might be effective, and if it is, well....who will the Trump camp seek for support in the next election? With out a war in Europe, the National Socialist movement in the US would likely have a lot to lose. )

* This economic weapon could cut Russia off from 'the 21st century economy' *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/this...-from-the-21st-century-economy-124135370.html



> In addition to the severe sanctions that Joe Biden has promised, the White House says it's ready to deploy another economic weapon if Vladimir Putin goes ahead with his planned invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> That weapon, the Export Administration Regulations (EAR), allows the Biden administration to ban foreign and domestic companies from exporting products like high-tech semiconductors to Russia.


I'm doubtful this will be Qanon approved.


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> Could be
> And from a Random thread, possibly high school algebra, too
> 
> lol!


Now now. None of this please. Keep it civil.


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> Now now. None of this please. Keep it civil.


In my defense...it was just too easy......... 

But....understood


----------



## MisterEd51

Note I have a B.S i.e. Baloney Stuff filter on so if I don't respond to something then it must have gotten filtered out.


----------



## Johnny b

You do understand what filters are full of?



Self compliments are like that


----------



## Johnny b

BTW....that's a trait not seen in Biden but notorious with Trump......ironic self compliments that is.

Remember the 'stable genius' quip lol!


----------



## Johnny b

Oh my....

With Putin starting a war in Europe, Biden certainly has his full attention taken up with it.

Now there's a call by a right wing extremist to invade Canada.
Candice Owens seems to be channeling Putin in her own war against democracy.

* Candace Owens called for the US to invade Canada to stop Justin Trudeau cracking down on trucker protests *
https://news.yahoo.com/candace-owens-called-us-invade-150643656.html



> "STOP talking about Russia. Send American troops to Canada to deal with the tyrannical reign of Justin Trudeau Castro," wrote Owens.......


----------



## Johnny b

If roles had been reversed and a Democrat Secretary of State made these comments, Trump and his minions would have been screaming for the death penalty claiming treasonous activity.
Think not? Trump, et al, called for the capital punishment of H Clinton just for investigating Trump's own alleged crimes.

* Only one former secretary of state is praising Putin and criticizing Biden in Ukraine crisis *
https://news.yahoo.com/only-one-former-secretary-state-160444530.html



> Mike Pompeo has lauded the Russian strongman over the past month as a "talented," "savvy," "capable statesman," offering his praise during a slew of interviews after his political action committee spent $30,000 on improving his performance in media appearances.
> 
> "He is a very talented statesman. He has lots of gifts," Pompeo told Fox News in January. "He was a KGB agent, for goodness sakes. He knows how to use power. We should respect that."


* Mike Pompeo shells out for media makeover *
https://www.axios.com/mike-pompeo-s...ver-8eae9986-94c1-471a-9715-4104702b315d.html


> The former secretary of State hasn't just been losing weight but working to hone his media skills amid speculation about a possible presidential run, records show.


The US has already experienced a Putin backed President in the form of Trump.
IMO, seeing how disastrously that worked out, why would we want another Putin shill?


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden sanctions Russian oligarchs, banks in Ukraine crisis *
https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...adimir-putin-46cef648807d0e3c2bac9793ad9022a6

:up:


----------



## Johnny b

Headline says it all.....elements of the GOP can not be trusted.

* Trump sides with Putin as Biden tries to stop a war *
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-joe-biden/index.html



> As President Joe Biden reprises the fabled presidential role of leading the free world, the predecessor who wants to succeed him is showing Putin that impunity, dictator-coddling and hero worship will return if he wins back the White House.


I'm wondering how much of our society ( those that still back Trump ) would accept outright Russian domination of the US.


----------



## Johnny b

Interesting development.
The Trump movement, the Russians and the Chinese are all aligned with the same goal.
The Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

* U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/us/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine.html



> After one diplomatic exchange in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord - and that China would not try to impede Russian plans and actions, the officials said.
> 
> The previously unreported talks between American and Chinese officials show how the Biden administration tried to use intelligence findings and diplomacy to persuade a superpower it views as a growing adversary to stop the invasion of Ukraine, and how that nation, led by President Xi Jinping, persistently sided with Russia even as the evidence of Moscow's plans for a military offensive grew over the winter.


So while Biden seeks peace, Trump not only sides with the Russians, he's also placed himself in agreement with and approves of the position the Chinese secretly held.

That's how much he hated losing an election.
That's how much he hates the concept of a democratic society.
And that's how much he hates the USA and all the people in it.

Imagine that.....siding with the Chinese  after all those hateful things he claimed about China and Covid-19.

Biden seeks peace.
Trump seeks revenge.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Note I have a B.S i.e. Baloney Stuff filter on so if I don't respond to something then it must have gotten filtered out.


I found this thread while searching for some discussion on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It appears that you created it as a counter point to "The Trump Thread".
The thing is, as I have found with most conservatives, you don't have much to say. You started by baselessly asserting that " he is by far the worst President in my lifetime".
By what measure?
He has had huge challenges in getting any legislation passed as he does not have a clear majority in the senate. Trump had majorities in both houses that he should have been able to use, and yet was frequently unable to capitalise on.
In any case, what few presidential rankings there are have not yet included Biden, and have rated Trump as Worst, 3nd Worst, and 4th Worst.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> I found this thread while searching for some discussion on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It appears that you created it as a counter point to "The Trump Thread".
> The thing is, as I have found with most conservatives, you don't have much to say. You started by baselessly asserting that " he is by far the worst President in my lifetime".
> By what measure?
> He has had huge challenges in getting any legislation passed as he does not have a clear majority in the senate. Trump had majorities in both houses that he should have been able to use, and yet was frequently unable to capitalise on.
> In any case, what few presidential rankings there are have not yet included Biden, and have rated Trump as Worst, 3nd Worst, and 4th Worst.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States


I looked at that article. How can I take it seriously when it was obviously written by a someone who biassed toward the left.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> I looked at that article. How can I take it seriously when it was obviously written by a someone who biassed toward the left.


How can anyone take you seriously when you use a fictional talking horse as an avatar?

Actually, I don't take you seriously because as I said before - you have nothing to say beyond baseless assertions.
The Wikipedia article cited is collaboratively written and quotes a number of scholarly sources which are all transparent about the methodologies they used to arrive at their rankings. 
Again, What basis do you have to even make your original assertion? 
None? I thought so.


----------



## MisterEd51

Now back to Biden. I watched his State of the Union. The first thing that came to mind was "BORING". On a serious note it was a mishmash of Democrat talking and problems of the day. The problem was he took no blame or offered no real solutions to any of our countries problems. His solution for inflation was for companies to decrease their costs. He is still pushing his "Build Back Better" legislation. How can anyone take him seriously when he is so illiterate in economics and so uncaring about the average American.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> How can anyone take you seriously when you use a fictional talking horse as an avatar?
> 
> Actually, I don't take you seriously because as I said before - you have nothing to say beyond baseless assertions.
> The Wikipedia article cited is collaboratively written and quotes a number of scholarly sources which are all transparent about the methodologies they used to arrive at their rankings.
> Again, What basis do you have to even make your original assertion?
> None? I thought so.


Yada yada. Since this the Biden Thread how about proving how great Biden is. The problem is that will prove to difficult. Note the State of the Union speech is usually used by the President to highlight his accomplishments. I noted that Biden didn't list any because there weren't any.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I looked at that article. How can I take it seriously when it was obviously written by a someone who biassed toward the left.


You are seldom taken seriously in this thread or in this forum, Ed.
And I should point out, I've never seen you back up a claim or project a refute with credible logic or example.

Trump is in the realm of treason. And it's not just idle talk.
Biden has an immense amount of damage done by Trump to correct.
And he does seem to be addressing it with some success.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Yada yada. Since this the Biden Thread how about proving how great Biden is. ...........................


Non sequitur.

Your opening post:


MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


That comment is for you to back up and you haven't.
Just ignorant remarks that I did address.
And now Sean has also.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Now back to Biden. I watched his State of the Union. The first thing that came to mind was "BORING". On a serious note it was a mishmash of Democrat talking and problems of the day. The problem was he took no blame or offered no real solutions to any of our countries problems. His solution for inflation was for companies to decrease their costs. He is still pushing his "Build Back Better" legislation. How can anyone take him seriously when he is so illiterate in economics and so uncaring about the average American.


Thank you for that.
It's now obvious you are oblivious to what is happening in Europe.
And the US economy.
And the US workforce.

Your BS filter is clogged and it's all on your side of the filter


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Yada yada. ................................... Note the State of the Union speech is usually used by the President to highlight his accomplishments. I noted that Biden didn't list any because there weren't any.


Admit it, Ed 
You obviously didn't listen to it.

LOL!


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> You are seldom taken seriously in this thread or in this forum, Ed.
> And I should point out, I've never seen you back up a claim or project a refute with credible logic or example.


That's OK. I don't take you seriously either in this thread or forum. *тупик*


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> That's OK. I don't take you seriously either in this thread or forum...........


Sure you do. lol.
Or you wouldn't have started this thread.

Take a look at what you've been posting.
Just denial with out logic or examples.

Trump got away with it for a long time.
Too long.
But he was a master at misinformation. He was a realestate developer selling dreams ....for most of his life. A con man. High dollar grifter.

Sadly, all you have is that avatar .


----------



## SeanLaurence

Johnny b said:


> His solution for inflation was for companies to decrease their costs


This is the one remark I heard about from the SOTU address that left me flat. 
How does a business do that exactly? Usually it is by cutting labour costs by paying people less. Surly they don't mean that. Almost everything is a labour cost though - If you want to buy product from a cheaper supplier then chances are that supplier is paying it's people less.
One might imagine that the answer is in efficiency - getting bigger machines that do the job with less energy or manpower. But that isn't really lowering costs.


----------



## Johnny b

Hey Sean.....that was actually a quote of Ed's.

But a general response would be more implementation of AI, both in engineering and assembly.

The big retailers have been focusing on self checkout counters and that would result in less labor.

Manufacturing has seen entire assembly lines robotized. Abroad.
So further modernizing our manufacturing infrastructure would reduce labor.
Applying technology, and further advancing it....will create more/better productivity.

The Chinese and much of South East Asia seem to have taken the lead.
We can only do it by improving our educational institutions rather than resting on our laurels of decades ago...many decades ago.


----------



## Wino

I'd recommend a 90% cut in executive pay and bonuses. There isn't an executive in the world worth 10 mil a year.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I'd recommend a 90% cut in executive pay and bonuses. There isn't an executive in the world worth 10 mil a year.


I agree with the second part, but I don't see how their salaries can be legislated/controlled other than through taxation.

I remember Biden's Sate of the Union address mentioning tax increases on high incomes.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden like a typical Democrat tried to blame big business for inflation. Also like a Democrat he takes no responsibility for it. In addition to the supply chain problem there is Biden's discouraging fossil fuel production and excessive government spending. Biden had a big role in the last two. Shortages in goods coupled with excessive government spending is a big part of causing inflation. Adding to that is the government discouraging employers from operating and paying people not to work. Biden and other Democrats also caused much damage to the economy by encouraging the government and private employers to punish workers that did not to wear a mask or be vaccinated. That last move was all political and had little basis in science.

If Biden and the Democrats stopped with the politics and started caring about the average American there would a lot less inflation. Also, there would be a lot more productivity and increasing real wages instead of decreasing real wages.

I wish people would learn real economics instead of following the moronic rhetoric of politicians and their media mouth pieces. I guess this is just wishful thinking because based on the responses I have seen here too many people either don't know or care about the how the real world works.



> What Is Demand-Pull Inflation?
> 
> Demand-pull inflation is the upward pressure on prices that follows a shortage in supply, a condition that economists describe as "too many dollars chasing too few goods."
> 
> Key Takeaways
> 
> When demand surpasses supply, higher prices are the result. This is demand-pull inflation.
> A low unemployment rate is unquestionably good in general, but it can cause inflation because more people have more disposable income.
> Increased government spending is good for the economy, too, but it can lead to scarcity in some goods and inflation will follow.


Demand-Pull Inflation
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demandpullinflation.asp


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden like a typical Democrat tried to blame big business for inflation. Also like a Democrat he takes no responsibility for it. In addition to the supply chain problem there is Biden's discouraging fossil fuel production and excessive government spending. Biden had a big role in the last two. Shortages in goods coupled with excessive government spending is a big part of causing inflation. Adding to that is the government discouraging employers from operating and paying people not to work. Biden and other Democrats also caused much damage to the economy by encouraging the government and private employers to punish workers that did not to wear a mask or be vaccinated. That last move was all political and had little basis in science.
> 
> If Biden and the Democrats stopped with the politics and started caring about the average American there would a lot less inflation. Also, there would be a lot more productivity and increasing real wages instead of decreasing real wages.
> 
> I wish people would learn real economics instead of following the moronic rhetoric of politicians and their media mouth pieces. I guess this is just wishful thinking because based on the responses I have seen here too many people either don't know or care about the how the real world works.
> 
> Demand-Pull Inflation
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demandpullinflation.asp


Like your math skills, your application of economics doesn't take into consideration of reality.
Here you abuse absolutism.



> Biden like a typical Democrat tried to blame big business for inflation.


Big business as 'The Cause' is one example.
We've recently had our society severely damaged by a pandemic and a President ( Trump ) that chose and imposed policies that damaged both the citizenry and the economy.
And it's been discussed endlessly in this forum. Indeed, and in threads where your presence and comments were absent, and here you are as if none of it ever happened, blaming the damage done, on Biden's watch.

Is there any reasonable consideration to the concept of Demand-Pull Inflation?
Of course there is.
And it's always been with us and always will be to some degree.
It's effects are a reflection of current and recent events, Elements which your logic and argument obviously ignores and denies.

We've had 4 years of a presidential administration that has obviously been led by a man involved in traitorous activity.
He has weakened our nation economically while supporting a foreign authoritarian ( essentially a dictator ). Again, discussed endlessly in this forum where your participation was obviously neglect. And here you are, arguing as if 4 years of Trump never happened.



> Biden like a typical Democrat .....


Blather. What is a typical Democrat?
Biden supports trade with our allies. ( Trump didn't ).
Biden supports the Constitution. ( Trump tried to overthrow it ).
Biden supports common sense in addressing the Covid-19 pandemic. ( Trump didn't ).
Biden supports the rebuilding of our infrastructure. ( Trump supported it's demise )

And a Big one:
Biden supports a freely elected republic by a democratic society. That's 'democtatic' with small 'd'.
Trump wished to be President for Life.

Those are not bad traits for a Democrat.
I'm a registered Republican. I voted for Biden and stated why at TSG when asked.
The main one: he and his policies weren't trying to kill me.
I suspect you view that as being selfish, as with all of his traits above. meh.

Also, while Trump may have been a member of the Republican Party, he was not republican. Thus the 'Never Trump' movement within the GOP.



> Also like a Democrat he takes no responsibility for it.


All you are doing, Ed...is exposing your denial of 4 years of the Trump 'experience' along with decades of fiscal and political policies that led us to the present.

Are you Q?



> In addition to the supply chain problem there is Biden's discouraging fossil fuel production ...................


What, past support of Putin isn't working out well, so you blame it on Biden? lol!
The world is staged for a war at the hands of Trump's master, and you're worried about inflation and the cost of petroleum products brought about from it.
Ed, you call yourself a 'Republican' and side with a Russian authoritarian?
I think there's something wrong with that imagery lol.



> ....and excessive government spending.


You guys broke it, now we all have to pay to fix it and here you are complaining that you shouldn't be accountable for your 'share' of the rebuilding.





> Biden had a big role in the last two.


The only reduction in refining output under Biden came from a refinery fire.
And your assessment of costs to rebuild America is a 'joke'.
It's going to be very expensive to repair what Trump managed to destroy.
From Trump's earliest days of his Presidency, the nation knew of his destructive intentions.
From 2017:
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/100-ways-100-days-trump-hurt-americans/
And it only got worse, especially with the pandemic.



> Shortages in goods coupled with excessive government spending is a big part of causing inflation.


Indeed.
But how do you rationalize the destruction of our society, if there isn't a movement to survive?
How can you, yes you Ed, achieve survival with out there being a billing of expenses and labor involved in that rebuild?
Everything done freely?
Are you crazy 
Look at your logic, your argument.
You want, with out there being a price tag.
That Not Going to Happen.
It's not even in the realm of capitalism.
Just bizarro logic. Edgy with a taste of Joe Imbriano 



> Adding to that is the government discouraging employers from operating and paying people not to work.


I think you are confused.
That policy started under Trump, and there was a lot of corruption involved.
I suspect you are upset more from Biden's State of the Union Address where he stated the Feds were coming after the people that illegally accepted government support.

https://www.healthcarefinancenews.c...pandemic-fraud-biden-says-state-union-address

Or I was right, you didn't watch or listen to Biden's State of the Union Address LOL!!



> Biden and other Democrats also caused much damage to the economy by encouraging the government and private employers to punish workers that did not to wear a mask or be vaccinated. That last move was all political and had little basis in science.


Been discussed elsewhere in the forum.
Proof of masks and vaccines being beneficial have already been posted.

Ed.....you've just classified yourself as another denier.



> If Biden and the Democrats stopped with the politics and started caring about the average American there would a lot less inflation. Also, there would be a lot more productivity and increasing real wages instead of decreasing real wages.


That's your opinion.
And so far, it only reflects your logic.....and...well!....



> I wish people would learn real economics instead of following the moronic rhetoric of politicians and their media mouth pieces.


Me too! 



> I guess this is just wishful thinking because based on the responses I have seen here too many people either don't know or care about the how the real world works.


Your 'guessing' isn't as valuable as you seem to think it is 

Your 'world' used to be Trumptonian Nationalism.
Now you are experiencing some of the realities it spawned.


----------



## Johnny b

SeanLaurence said:


> I found this thread while searching for some discussion on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It appears that you created it as a counter point to "The Trump Thread".
> The thing is, as I have found with most conservatives, you don't have much to say. You started by baselessly asserting that " he is by far the worst President in my lifetime".
> By what measure?
> .........................


Good morning Sean 

A counter point discussion could have brought about some interesting issues.
Biden isn't perfect, he is human after all.

But look closer at this thread with a different point of view.

Several years ago, when the Boogaloo movement was just becoming apparent, I found a reference to one of their activists that was running a website/blog called 'My-Militia'.
It was essentially an information hub for illegal/militant militias supporting Trump and the overthrow of a democratically elected government.
Josh Ellis.
His recommendations in a video, presented the idea of using repetitious dialog in debates ( like this one ) where repetition and constant bold misrepresentation are used to divert the 'opponents' argument and wear them down to the point they eventually cease a dialog.
Trolling for debate.

It's nothing new. I saw it in action years ago in the evolution/creation debates.

It's painfully obvious the thread starter has no intention of providing any kind of dialog to back up his statements.

Am I complaining?
No! 
I can dig it 

So, an example from the 'financial expert':



MisterEd51 said:


> .......................... The U.S. went from being energy independent to energy dependent on the likes of OPEC and the Russians. ....................


* попугай *

While that's been repeated many times and by Democrats, too, it's a line of BS.
Perhaps our local 'financial expert' .....isn't?

A common sense description of the US energy 'picture':

* The myth of US 'energy independence' *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-myth-of-us-energy-independence-223017557.html

And it should be pointed out that the rise in oil prices is not a supply issue in the US.
( some basics worth reading:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/prices-and-outlook.php )
It's a supply issue in Europe because of the War, Vladimir Putin ( yes the guy that backed Trump in the 2020 election ) started, causing the world market price on petroleum to escalate.

BTW, Canada is our greatest source of imported petroleum, not OPEC or Russia.

Imagine the mess we'd be in if Trump had been re-elected and been able to continue his trade war with neighboring Canada and Mexico.
That would create shortages.
And with Trump supporting fascists like Candace Owens calling for a military invasion of Canada, your best investment for future proofing transportation needs might be a bicycle.


----------



## Wino

But...........but.................Keystone was gonna save us !!! LOL

As an aside - The EIA article linked read like a defense and apology for Big Oil.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> But...........but.................Keystone was gonna save us !!! LOL
> 
> As an aside - The EIA article linked read like a defense and apology for Big Oil.


Yep....warts and all.


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Yep....warts and all.


I can say it all in one word - GREED!


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I can say it all in one word - GREED!


Indeed.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ............................
> 
> If Biden and the Democrats stopped with the politics and started caring about the average American there would a lot less inflation. .......................


Perhaps you could explain the economic model you'd use and why it's different?

MMT was a topic elsewhere in the forum.
What's your position?


----------



## Johnny b

I had to run a quick errand and passed a Shell gas station selling their reg. for $4.10/ gal.

But it's not Biden to blame. It's Putin.
The guy that started the war against the Ukraine, disrupting world-wide energy markets. 

The guy that Trump and his supporters were friendly and supportive of.


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> I had to run a quick errand and passed a Shell gas station selling their reg. for $4.10/ gal.


$4.39 ish for Shell, most are at $3.99. The highest I saw was about $4.69 (Cheveron I think)

#NotBidensFault


----------



## Johnny b

This is sure to upset Ed:

* Biden to announce ban on Russian oil imports *
https://news.yahoo.com/yahoo-news-now-special-report-205722863.html

IMO, a good thing.
But realistically, it's not a big thing. We simply don't import much oil from Russia.


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> Perhaps you could explain the economic model you'd use and why it's different?
> 
> MMT was a topic elsewhere in the forum.
> What's your position?


I believe in Capitalism. I expect you believe in Socialism.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I believe in Capitalism. I expect you believe in Socialism.


I sense you are evading my question.
What is your position about MMT?


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> I had to run a quick errand and passed a Shell gas station selling their reg. for $4.10/ gal.
> 
> But it's not Biden to blame. It's Putin.
> The guy that started the war against the Ukraine, disrupting world-wide energy markets.
> 
> The guy that Trump and his supporters were friendly and supportive of.


The increases now can be blamed on Putin. The increases before the Ukraine invasion are all on Biden. Even now Biden is calling on other oil producing countries to make up the difference in oil production. The only country that Biden does not want to increase production is the United States.


----------



## Johnny b

Do you know what MMT is?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The increases now can be blamed on Putin. The increases before the Ukraine invasion are all on Biden. Even now Biden is calling on other oil producing countries to make up the difference in oil production. The only country that Biden does not want to increase production is the United States.


You are addressing an imaginary supply shortage.
In creasing the production in the US will have little affect on global prices.

Inflation initially drove up prices on petroleum products, but also most other commodities as well.....and that is from an accumulation of fiscal and foreign policies over many administrations, Trump's being the latest and most influential on our time period.
Covid-19 and trade wars being a great part of it.


----------



## Johnny b

Johnny b said:


> Do you know what MMT is?


LOL!

Google is your friend


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I believe in Capitalism.........


Please explain how crime and capitalism are compatible.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> I can say it all in one word - GREED!


Most businesses operate to make money. After all they are not charities. You talk like making money is unethical.

Some people think that big business is bad while big government is good. How good is big government when they like to confiscate other people's money to hand it out to others. That's why the Democrats love big government. They think of giving out money as buying support and controlling people. The problem is there are too many people that don't mind being bought and controlled.

Most people to one extent or another operate on greed. Since you don't sound greedy then you must give most of your money to the needy. What a nice guy!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Most businesses operate to make money. After all they are not charities. You talk like making money is unethical.
> 
> Some people think that big business is bad while big government is good. How good is big government when they like to confiscate other people's money to hand it out to others. That's why the Democrats love big government. They think of giving out money as buying support and controlling people. The problem is there are too many people that don't mind being bought and controlled.
> 
> Most people to one extent or another operate on greed. Since you don't sound greedy then you must give most of your money to the needy. What a nice guy!


So, you operate on 'greed'.
Why am I not surprised.

Don't you understand? Capitalism is not about greed. It's an economic model based on perceived value.

So, what economic model do you support?


----------



## SeanLaurence

Couriant said:


> $4.39 ish for Shell, most are at $3.99. The highest I saw was about $4.69 (Cheveron I think)
> 
> #NotBidensFault


$3.99 to $4.39 usd/gal ?? Sign me up. At the Esso gas station on the corner I passed this AM it is $2.099 /L which translates to $*6.21 USD /US Gal*. We have the highest prices on in the Americas here in BC with the possible exception of Uruguay which is $6.662 usd/gal and Belize at $12.730


----------



## Johnny b

SeanLaurence said:


> $3.99 to $4.39 usd/gal ?? Sign me up. ...................


IMO, the US is in store for even bigger shocks.
Wars have been big inflation drivers as well as the banking failures under Reagan and GW Bush and crime was at the center of those.

MMT ought to be a good topic for financial geniuses, but I'm not expecting much from the thread starter.

This thread is looking up


----------



## Johnny b

Well, Ed seems to have left the room and his positions on crime, greed and monetary theory still vague.

Guess we'll have to wait on headlines from Alex or Joe .


----------



## Couriant

SeanLaurence said:


> $3.99 to $4.39 usd/gal ?? Sign me up. At the Esso gas station on the corner I passed this AM it is $2.099 /L which translates to $*6.21 USD /US Gal*. We have the highest prices on in the Americas here in BC with the possible exception of Uruguay which is $6.662 usd/gal and Belize at $12.730


Hawaii highest price hit $5.33/gal...


----------



## MisterEd51

Couriant said:


> Hawaii highest price hit $5.33/gal...


On Tuesday a reported asked Biden what he was going to do about the high gas prices. He responded that there was nothing he could do. Translation: Biden's far left masters were pleased with the high gas prices so there was nothing he needed to do.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> On Tuesday a reported asked Biden what he was going to do about the high gas prices. He responded that there was nothing he could do. Translation: Biden's far left masters were pleased with the high gas prices so there was nothing he needed to do.


Translation: 'I don't have a clue'.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd, you claim you are a capitalist. How do you rationalize controlling energy pricing through essentially a socialist mechanism? Government control.

Trumponomics?
And yet you've made no comment on the Trump administration's involvement in the pricing structure of imported consumer products or the disastrous Trump Ag policies.

When do you think socialism is not socialism?
When 'your guy does it'?

Really, I don't see how that makes you a 'capitalist'. Just greedy as you noted.

An old saying I once heard concerning socialism...."what's yours is mine, what's mine's me own". It's one of the inherent flaws of socialism.
It also appears to be a motto Donald J Trump lives by 

Trumponomics  


BTW, other than releasing oil reserves, there isn't much a President can do in a short period of time that would have an immediate effect and that 60 million barrels he released won't have much of an effect on pricing.

Well.....The US is in the early stages of a war, Bidden could surrender to Putin.
Would that appease you?
IMO, a bad idea.
Would you salute a foreign invader's flag?


----------



## Johnny b

Hey Ed....here's an interesting take on oil pricing.
True, it won't calm your fears.... that the Biden Presidency will persevere....but it'll give you something real to grumble about.

* Why gas prices aren't actually at record highs *
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/why-gas-prices-aren-t-215731648.html


----------



## Johnny b

Good golly......I don't ever remember Trump being concerned over the well being of the business/manufacturing sector beyond his own interests.

* US 'working with the private sector' to source commodities, Commerce Secretary says *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-w...nickel-commerce-secretary-says-112456169.html

Let's hear your opinion, Ed.

Should the Biden Administration be allowed to insure that the US business/manufacturing sector survive the Russian hostilities currently going on?

Or is that simply 'too socialist' for you to tolerate?


----------



## Johnny b

Oh my goodness!
This will upset you, Ed.
My condolences.

* Russia-Ukraine war: Companies that have taken action against Russia *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-...-the-russia-ukraine-war-so-far-215851239.html

That's an impressive list!
Looks like capitalism is rejecting the current GOP platform.


----------



## Wino

Biden has the same control over oil prices I have getting DJT to shut his ignorant pie hole. Oil is controlled by Big Oil - if it were up to me, we'd nationalize the industry, imprison their executives along with confiscating their ill gotten wealth stolen from citizens. That would be socialism protecting capitalism from it's self.


----------



## Johnny b

I can't give you a thumbs up on that, but I fully understand the 'why'.

For a long time I've argued for more research into fusion utilities.
Here we are needing it and we can no longer afford the necessary research to develop it.


----------



## Johnny b

This is sure to be disappointing to many Trump minions:

* Stocks rebound as EU says it has enough gas for winter *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ftse...cac-dax-russia-ukraine-oil-gas-092228789.html


----------



## Johnny b

* Ukraine Expert Alexander Vindman Humiliates Marjorie Taylor Greene With Brutal Fact Check *
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marj...twitter-fact-check_n_62263198e4b02186be2570f3

( that news source ought to be enough to incite Ed  )

Greene:


> Tragically, people are dying because of Biden's poor decision making leading up to Putin declaring war on Ukraine.
> 
> Biden's weakness and failure as a leader not only has put America last but is a danger to the entire world.


( gee.....where have I heard that before?  )

Vindman:


> "Nope. It's because you and your pro-Putin party encouraged Putin to invade, by cheerleading him," Vindman responded.


Interesting tweeting going on here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500539458172690439









Greene's vociferous rhetoric sounds so familiar. Where in the world did I see it recently?

Anyway, Vindman's wife had an interesting comment in the Huffpost article:


> We all know you are crazy stupid but why do you insist on telling us over and over?


:up:

Anyway  imagine that.....arguing to overthrow the government while backing the instigator of war.
Sounds rather treasonous to me.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> On Tuesday a reported asked Biden what he was going to do about the high gas prices. He responded that there was nothing he could do. Translation: Biden's far left masters were pleased with the high gas prices so there was nothing he needed to do.


To reinforce what Johnny B said:

- You don't have a clue.

- Presidents can do very little to influence oil prices:
a) they can release oil from the strategic oil reserve to oversupply the market which should influence pricing.
b) they can lobby producers and nations that produce to produce more.
c) high gas prices CAN be seen as a good thing as it encourages adopting greener technology. Otherwise, higher prices encourage developing oil fields that would otherwise be uneconomical to use.

-Neither Biden nor "his masters" are "Far Left" They may be left of you, but you have obviously never experienced "Far Left". Think about Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea and reflect on what conditions are like in those countries. Venezuala has the lowest priced gasoline in the world because it is heavily subsidised, and yet the country is an economic disaster, but not just for that reason.


----------



## SeanLaurence

Johnny b said:


> arguing to overthrow the government while backing the instigator of war.
> Sounds rather treasonous to me.


Trump's (and Flynn's) policy to avoid war by appeasing Putin is eerily similar to Neville Chamberlain's attempt to appease Hitler. We all know how that turned out.


----------



## Johnny b

SeanLaurence said:


> .........................
> 
> -Neither Biden nor "his masters" are "Far Left" ..........................


Agree.
To say even 'Liberal' in today's terminology, imo only mildly Liberal.
He's not perfect, no man is, but I think he's trying to be pragmatic and that rises above political labels.
I'm impressed that he's focusing on leading a society. Not in ruling it.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> To reinforce what Johnny B said:
> 
> - You don't have a clue.
> 
> - Presidents can do very little to influence oil prices:
> a) they can release oil from the strategic oil reserve to oversupply the market which should influence pricing.
> b) they can lobby producers and nations that produce to produce more.
> c) high gas prices CAN be seen as a good thing as it encourages adopting greener technology. Otherwise, higher prices encourage developing oil fields that would otherwise be uneconomical to use.
> 
> -Neither Biden nor "his masters" are "Far Left" They may be left of you, but you have obviously never experienced "Far Left". Think about Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea and reflect on what conditions are like in those countries. Venezuala has the lowest priced gasoline in the world because it is heavily subsidised, and yet the country is an economic disaster, but not just for that reason.


I can't believe it. Do you get your information from a box of CrackerJax? You obviously don't follow the news. That's why I don't debate much with you and Johnny B. Every other word from the two of you is B.S. Its not my job to educate you. That was your mama's job.



> President Joe Biden, a Democrat, made a campaign pledge to end federal oil and gas drilling to fight climate change, and he quickly announced a suspension of all new lease sales pending a broad review of drilling's impact on global warming after taking office.Jan 28, 2022


Analysis: Biden gets climate win with court loss on Gulf of Mexico oil leases
https://www.reuters.com/business/su...court-loss-gulf-mexcio-oil-leases-2022-01-28/

Biden pauses new oil and gas leases amid legal battle over cost of climate change
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html

Keystone pipeline canceled after Biden had permit blocked
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ed-after-biden-had-blocked-permit/7627122002/


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I can't believe it. Do you get your information from a box of CrackerJax? ..........
> 
> ...............


You often look foolish with many of your claims, Ed
The complex issues of petroleum sourcing, supply/demand. pricing and political theater seems beyond your comprehension.

You deny dynamics and continue to argue in simple absolutes.

You evade and ignore questions and challenges only to repetitiously parrot tangential issues.
Seriously, I don't remember you addressing or responding to any of the challenges or concepts put before you.
Just repetition. Are you a parrot?

You claim to be learned in finances. And yet you ignore the spot market. You ignore the world market. You ignore the influences on those markets. You ignore the data I posted concerning the bogus claims you've made about petroleum independence.

And then you think you are insulting the forum with your lead in comment above?
It actually made me laugh 

You hate anyone that won't bow down to failed Trump fiscal policies.
You are simply blind to reality because of it.
You pretend to oppose socialism and then it's pointed out your ex-leader was deeply involved with government intervention in our economy.
And THEN, you seem to accuse everyone here, but yourself, is a socialist.

Like I told Jack, you really aren't very good with propaganda and sophistry.
And cherry picking articles won't get you very far.

And No, I don't think you are a capitalist. You don't seem to know much about it.
Capitalism is not based on greed as you projected, but greedy individuals do abuse the concept. 
Like Donald J Trump. A malevolent opportunist.

How long do you think it takes to actually go from drilling to extraction to refining?
Or build a pipeline?
You want an instant 'fix'.
You want an increase in oil production immediately.
Not going to happen.

Have you seen long lines at gas stations?
There are no shortages.
There is inflation and a war influencing petroleum prices.
That war going on that is having a big impact on European energy.
And the instigator, Putin, was backed and still backed by many in the GOP.
Many the same as those that back The Insurrection.

And here you are, whining it's all Biden's fault.
Nationalist extremists cry socialism when a government intercedes and cry foul when it doesn't.
meh lol.

There is no petroleum shortage in the US.
You just don't like the price.
And as I recently pointed out, not out of line with inflation, ( which Biden is not responsible for ).

To show the complexity of petroleum pricing, I chose this article shortly before the Russian/Ukraine war. Of course, the war is now additionally, a large influence. Especially in Europe.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danebe...-remains-one-of-the-worlds-largest-producers/

If you don't like that one, here's another:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2021/09/26/revisiting-the-blame-for-high-gas-prices/

Your simplistic attacks on Biden are boring, Ed.
I do laugh. But not the kindly type


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .........................That's why I don't debate much with you and Johnny B. Every other word from the two of you is B.S. Its not my job to educate you. That was your mama's job.
> .................


You sound unhappy.
And your debate skills just don't seem up to the task.

Actually, you seldom debate.
Looking at what you post, it's mostly trolling and whining.
I suspect you think your above response is cute.
Try harder and think about injecting witty comments. It might help.

Reality....It's just the frustrated cry of a pseudo-intellectual that thinks he's better/smarter than everyone else.
And that is sad.
I do have a question about that.
If you are so smart, why are you here exposing your intellect for all to see and sneer at?



> Every other word from the two of you is B.S.



Maybe you'll find this funny ha ha.
There is a lot Sean and I disagree about.
You'd probably understand if you had better reading skills. 
But when we disagree, there's debate.
We do seem to be pretty simpatico in your threads, though. lol.
As I mentioned above, your attempt at debate seems tilted toward whining and trolling.
And it frustrates you when contradictory reality is presented.
Maybe all you need is a good mental health expert?

( edited spelling )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I can't believe it. Do you get your information from a box of CrackerJax? You obviously don't follow the news. ......................


* U.S. oil and gas permitting has increased under Biden, data shows *
https://news.yahoo.com/us-oil-and-gas-permitting-has-increased-under-biden-data-show-223504727.html



'Your mama' .....lol!


----------



## Wino

I know not why you bother - I do enjoy, though!!


----------



## SeanLaurence

Johnny b said:


> * U.S. oil and gas permitting has increased under Biden, data shows *
> https://news.yahoo.com/us-oil-and-gas-permitting-has-increased-under-biden-data-show-223504727.html


Brilliant article, although I would like to point out that the unused drilling leases may be akin to vacant properties. Sometimes the owner's don't care or don't have the resources to (re-) develop a property, while other developers can't get land to build/drill on.
Part of an effective economy is connecting resources.
You may have unfilled jobs over here and a number of unemployed people over there. The trick is to get the job seekers into available jobs.


----------



## Johnny b

IMO, the big current push for increasing leases is inflation oriented.
Buy today to hold, and pay off with cheap dollars in the future.


----------



## SeanLaurence

Johnny b said:


> * U.S. oil and gas permitting has increased under Biden, data shows *
> https://news.yahoo.com/us-oil-and-gas-permitting-has-increased-under-biden-data-show-223504727.html


https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/why...t-agree-on-oil-prices-amid-russia-crisis.html
An article on why producer's are shy about new exploration.


----------



## SeanLaurence

Johnny b said:


> IMO, the big current push for increasing leases is inflation oriented.
> Buy today to hold, and pay off with cheap dollars in the future.


Fair enough. When facing inflation, buy assets that don't depreciate. 
The question is: Are drilling leases a good investment. With the gradual (inevitable) move to green energy, they may not be.


----------



## Johnny b

SeanLaurence said:


> Fair enough. When facing inflation, buy assets that don't depreciate.
> The question is: Are drilling leases a good investment. With the gradual (inevitable) move to green energy, they may not be.





> Are drilling leases a good investment.


Wino probably has more input than I can give.
It all depends upon a lot of factors.
What's the expected oil production? What are well logs showing? 
Projected costs of extraction?
Quality of the Crude?
And also as you posted, need. And there it's a mixed bag of politics and the economics of whatever alternate energy source is being considered.

The green movement is on and has even been shown to be competitive with fossil fuel.
I think technology can overcome the economic obstacles but not so much the political ones.
In other words, any time frame considered is subjected to politics and oil lobbyists.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> Fair enough. When facing inflation, buy assets that don't depreciate.
> The question is: Are drilling leases a good investment. With the gradual (inevitable) move to green energy, they may not be.


A drilling lease is only a legal construct to give an oil company permission to look for oil at a particular place. It does not even guarantee there is any oil to be found. Some leases are also worthless because that answer is already known to be no oil. Biden from the first day in office has declared is intentions to end the use of fossil fuels. Since the time from getting a lease to production may at best be over a decade many oil companies are reluctant to invest their money in something Biden is determined to stop.

If Biden really wanted to lower gas prices he would make oil leases easier to get, stop blocking pipelines, stop interfering with fracking, and reverse the new regulations he put in place a year ago.

Biden's and the Democrats goal of 100% renewable is a laudable goal. Unfortunately, it lacks a realistic plan to get there. Here are a few questions:

If fossil fuel power generation is shut down what will replace it. I have read that will be renewables but that is a talking point not realistic with today's technology. Nuclear power is a realistic alternative to fossil fuel power generation. Unfortunately, the greenies want to shut those down too.
All-electric vehicles are more expensive than fossil fueled ones. Whose going to pay for people to replace their existing vehicles?
All-electric large industrial and agriculture vehicles are not viable with existing technologies.
Large scale use of all-electric vehicles will require millions more charging stations. What are the plans to build these?
I have a lot more questions but these are just some off the top of my head.

Some of the Climate Change zealots say that we have only ten years left before changes are irreversible. If that is true then where are the real plans to avoid that. Some people say 2030 and others 2050. Well, where is the science to say how much time we have,

Most of the rhetoric is pure political. How about following the real science and some real engineering plans to solve the so called Climate Change looming catastrophe. How can I take any of this seriously when the proponents are not even serious about realistic plans that will make a real difference. The only plans I have seen will either cause a very small or no change in global temperature. What is the point in spending trillions of dollars when nothing is accomplished?

Biden is still pushing the Green New Deal. I doubt even it will do nothing but make us a lot poorer. I wonder if he really believes the words coming out of his mouth or he only cares about pleasing the far left.

I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong. I wish more people would grow a spine and say enough is enough. Demand real science and real plans to address climate problems from Biden.


----------



## Johnny b

SeanLaurence said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/why...t-agree-on-oil-prices-amid-russia-crisis.html
> An article on why producer's are shy about new exploration.


Very interesting, thanks for posting it.
I hope Ed actually reads it.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> A drilling lease is only a legal construct to give an oil company permission to look for oil at a particular place. It does not even guarantee there is any oil to be found. Some leases are also worthless because that answer is already known to be no oil. Biden from the first day in office has declared is intentions to end the use of fossil fuels. Since the time from getting a lease to production may at best be over a decade many oil companies are reluctant to invest their money in something Biden is determined to stop.
> 
> If Biden really wanted to lower gas prices he would make oil leases easier to get, stop blocking pipelines, stop interfering with fracking, and reverse the new regulations he put in place a year ago.
> 
> Biden's and the Democrats goal of 100% renewable is a laudable goal. Unfortunately, it lacks a realistic plan to get there. Here are a few questions:
> 
> If fossil fuel power generation is shut down what will replace it. I have read that will be renewables but that is a talking point not realistic with today's technology. Nuclear power is a realistic alternative to fossil fuel power generation. Unfortunately, the greenies want to shut those down too.
> All-electric vehicles are more expensive than fossil fueled ones. Whose going to pay for people to replace their existing vehicles?
> All-electric large industrial and agriculture vehicles are not viable with existing technologies.
> Large scale use of all-electric vehicles will require millions more charging stations. What are the plans to build these?
> I have a lot more questions but these are just some off the top of my head.
> 
> Some of the Climate Change zealots say that we have only ten years left before changes are irreversible. If that is true then where are the real plans to avoid that. Some people say 2030 and others 2050. Well, where is the science to say how much time we have,
> 
> Most of the rhetoric is pure political. How about following the real science and some real engineering plans to solve the so called Climate Change looming catastrophe. How can I take any of this seriously when the proponents are not even serious about realistic plans that will make a real difference. The only plans I have seen will either cause a very small or no change in global temperature. What is the point in spending trillions of dollars when nothing is accomplished?
> 
> Biden is still pushing the Green New Deal. I doubt even it will do nothing but make us a lot poorer. I wonder if he really believes the words coming out of his mouth or he only cares about pleasing the far left.
> 
> I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong. I wish more people would grow a spine and say enough is enough. Demand real science and real plans to address climate problems from Biden.


Is there really any reason for any member to be responding to your trolling, Ed?
I get it.
You favor the extremism of the far right.



> A drilling lease is only a legal construct to give an oil company permission to look for oil at a particular place.


The lease gives the oil company the right to explore AND develop.
And it's not as simple as you would like:
https://earthworks.org/issues/oil_and_gas_leasing/



> Some leases are also worthless because that answer is already known to be no oil.


Do I really have to tell you why that sounds so ignorant?
OK 
In a capitalist economic model, who the hell invests in something they know has no value?
That would be the separation of a fool and his money.

Financial expert, eh?



> Since the time from getting a lease to production may at best be over a decade many oil companies are reluctant to invest their money in something Biden is determined to stop.



This may come as a shock to you, but there are only allowed two terms to the Presidential Office of any one man or woman.
Really.
And about that 10+ year span claim. You ought to be reading the links posted for your intellectual edification. Especially the one Sean recently posted.

And it should be pointed out, a President only has control over leases of government lands and if you'd read Sean's link, you would have come across an interesting contradiction to your whining.
Think not? Go to his last link and do a word search for 'private'.

Let me help you:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/why...t-agree-on-oil-prices-amid-russia-crisis.html


> Options like expanding drilling leases on federal lands, as some politicians have urged, wouldn't deliver new barrels fast enough because of the time needed to build wells and prepare to drill - a point echoed by Pioneer Natural Resources CEO Scott Sheffield, who said on CNBC that nearly all U.S. oil comes from privately owned land anyway.


Did you catch that?

* nearly all U.S. oil comes from privately owned land *

Financial expert-----LOL!!

Ha ha ha ha ha haaa!



> If Biden really wanted to lower gas prices he would make oil leases easier to get, stop blocking pipelines, stop interfering with fracking, and reverse the new regulations he put in place a year ago.


Translation: * "I don't know what I'm talking about" *



> Here are a few questions:


Why should we accommodate your constant trolling, Ed?
You ignore almost all the responses that are posted and simply proceed in your mindless way.

For the sake of clarity, I'll start a new post to respond to your further tirade.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> A drilling lease is only a legal construct to give an oil company permission to look for oil at a particular place. It does not even guarantee there is any oil to be found. Some leases are also worthless because that answer is already known to be no oil. Biden from the first day in office has declared is intentions to end the use of fossil fuels. Since the time from getting a lease to production may at best be over a decade many oil companies are reluctant to invest their money in something Biden is determined to stop.


"determined" is probably an overstatement. How about "made a campaign promise"



> If Biden really wanted to lower gas prices he would make oil leases easier to get, stop blocking pipelines, stop interfering with fracking, and reverse the new regulations he put in place a year ago.


Maybe he doesn't care where gas prices are. As I have said before, it incentivises everyone to get off of fossil fuels.



> Biden's and the Democrats goal of 100% renewable is a laudable goal.


Glad we can agree on that



> Unfortunately, it lacks a realistic plan to get there. Here are a few questions:
> 
> If fossil fuel power generation is shut down what will replace it. I have read that will be renewables but that is a talking point not realistic with today's technology. Nuclear power is a realistic alternative to fossil fuel power generation. Unfortunately, the greenies want to shut those down too.




Just because something is hard does not make it worth doing. or trying to do.
Many Nuke plants are being shut down as they end their service life. Same as coal plants. Not all greens fear nuclear power. I would like to see more funding for modern plants.
Check out LFTR's (Liquid fluoride thorium reactor)



> [*]All-electric vehicles are more expensive than fossil fueled ones. Whose going to pay for people to replace their existing vehicles?


Yes, that is a problem. Presumably as the tech matures and becomes more popular, prices will come down. People replace their cars periodically anyway.


> [*]All-electric large industrial and agriculture vehicles are not viable with existing technologies.


Yes, another issue that is not getting much attention. How about Ammonia fueled?


> [*]Large scale use of all-electric vehicles will require millions more charging stations. What are the plans to build these?


And a more robust electric grid. Have you looked at the Green new Deal that is stalled in the Senate?



> Some of the Climate Change zealots say that we have only ten years left before changes are irreversible. If that is true then where are the real plans to avoid that. Some people say 2030 and others 2050. Well, where is the science to say how much time we have,


I don't listen to zealots. Who I do listen to are those that speak about how mitigating the effects of climate change will become exponentially more costly the longer we wait.



> Most of the rhetoric is pure political.


If you say so. You don't strike me as being a climate scientist though.



> How about following the real science and some real engineering plans to solve the so called Climate Change looming catastrophe.


Like what?



> How can I take any of this seriously when the proponents are not even serious about realistic plans that will make a real difference. The only plans I have seen will either cause a very small or no change in global temperature.


I agree that too little is being done



> What is the point in spending trillions of dollars when nothing is accomplished?


Now you are just being a fatalist. You need to start somewhere.



> Biden is still pushing the Green New Deal. I doubt even it will do nothing but make us a lot poorer. I wonder if he really believes the words coming out of his mouth or he only cares about pleasing the far left.


The GND will not make anyone poorer. The idea is to improve the nation's infrastructure. What makes the nation poorer is war, - destruction instead of construction.



> I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong. I wish more people would grow a spine and say enough is enough. Demand real science and real plans to address climate problems from Biden.


The only plan I have seen you offer is "Drill baby drill". I think the GND is a better plan than that.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ....................
> 
> Biden's and the Democrats goal of 100% renewable is a laudable goal. Unfortunately, it lacks a realistic plan to get there. Here are a few questions:
> 
> If fossil fuel power generation is shut down what will replace it. I have read that will be renewables but that is a talking point not realistic with today's technology. Nuclear power is a realistic alternative to fossil fuel power generation. Unfortunately, the greenies want to shut those down too.
> All-electric vehicles are more expensive than fossil fueled ones. Whose going to pay for people to replace their existing vehicles?
> All-electric large industrial and agriculture vehicles are not viable with existing technologies.
> Large scale use of all-electric vehicles will require millions more charging stations. What are the plans to build these?
> I have a lot more questions but these are just some off the top of my head.
> ....................





> If fossil fuel power generation is shut down what will replace it.



What you just posted is called a logical fallacy.
Begging the question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

A fossil fuel generator is shut down WHEN it's replaced by something else, such as solar, wind or hydro sources. And it is occurring.



> All-electric vehicles are more expensive than fossil fueled ones. Whose going to pay for people to replace their existing vehicles?


You really don't seem to understand the real issue with current EVs.
It's not cost. It's pollution and much of it comes from the oxidation processes used to derive electricity to charge batteries. Also manufacturing of those batteries.
There isn't even an infrastructure present that would support battery charging for a nation of EVs at this time.
That's not an argument to deny embracing a technology, it's what is needed to make it work.

Ed. You constantly look at problems in the most simplistic manner and wind up denying the value that could be derived.



> All-electric large industrial and agriculture vehicles are not viable with existing technologies.


Apparently you've never been in a mine.
I was. 50 years ago.
Everything, from the mining equipment to the trucks used to move rock ad minerals, was electric powered. All electric. No fossil fueled motors anywhere.
The largest of external mine trucks are electric powered.
The largest of excavators are electric powered.
They just don't use batteries.

There are, however, battery powered aircraft being developed.

Why deny it, Ed?
Oxidation is the problem.



> Large scale use of all-electric vehicles will require millions more charging stations. What are the plans to build these?


Musk intends to use capitalism and a lot of investors.
No doubt, other companies and entrepreneurs will join in on the profit making.

Done sensibly, going green will not only bring about a more healthy environment, it would be very profitable at the same time.

Coal is no longer competitive against wind and solar.
Ag land owners can actually make more money leasing land to wind and solar ventures than growing food.
Times they are a changing.

Your arguments are predicated on them being done immediately rather than sensibly.
But I wasn't surprised


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................................
> 
> Some of the Climate Change zealots say that we have only ten years left before changes are irreversible. If that is true then where are the real plans to avoid that. Some people say 2030 and others 2050. Well, where is the science to say how much time we have,
> 
> Most of the rhetoric is pure political. How about following the real science and some real engineering plans to solve the so called Climate Change looming catastrophe. How can I take any of this seriously when the proponents are not even serious about realistic plans that will make a real difference. The only plans I have seen will either cause a very small or no change in global temperature. What is the point in spending trillions of dollars when nothing is accomplished?
> 
> Biden is still pushing the Green New Deal. I doubt even it will do nothing but make us a lot poorer. I wonder if he really believes the words coming out of his mouth or he only cares about pleasing the far left.
> 
> I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong. I wish more people would grow a spine and say enough is enough. Demand real science and real plans to address climate problems from Biden.





> Some of the Climate Change zealots say that we have only ten years left before changes are irreversible. If that is true then where are the real plans to avoid that. Some people say 2030 and others 2050. Well, where is the science to say how much time we have,


I started a thread on that.
If you want a discussion about it, go there:

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/global-warming-climate-change.1219967/



> Most of the rhetoric is pure political. How about following the real science and some real engineering plans to solve the so called Climate Change looming catastrophe.


If you want to talk science, my thread is the place to do it.
But I suggest you read it before posting.



> I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong.


What did I miss?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .................................. I wish more people would grow a spine and say enough is enough. .................


I wish more people would grow a brain and say, thank you. (  )


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I know not why you bother - I do enjoy, though!!


It's all about 'syndication' ...............lol.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> If you say so. You don't strike me as being a climate scientist though.


I have more of a science and engineering background than the average person. I worked for 15 years supporting engineering and space research at a NASA field center. The first half supporting the Space Shuttle and the second half supporting planetary and solar research. Before I retired I worked for a contractor that did work for the DIA.

Over the years I have known and worked with many scientists and engineers. We rarely talked about politics. However, it was known that to get ahead or even keep your job you had to do work that favored the political elites in Washington. Herd mentality is alive and well these days. A scientist that strays from the accepted ideology is rare these days because he has to try a lot harder to get funding for his research. An example is a climate scientist named John Christy. He works for the same college that I went to school at.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have more of a science and engineering background than the average person. I worked for 15 years supporting engineering and space research at a NASA field center. The first half supporting the Space Shuttle and the second half supporting planetary and solar research. Before I retired I worked for a contractor that did work for the DIA.
> 
> Over the years I have known and worked with many scientists and engineers. We rarely talked about politics. However, it was known that to get ahead or even keep your job you had to do work that favored the political elites in Washington. Herd mentality is alive and well these days. A scientist that strays from the accepted ideology is rare these days because he has to try a lot harder to get funding for his research. An example is a climate scientist named John Christy. He works for the same college that I went to school at.


I've addressed the silly things you've posted.
If you are an example of above average, our society is in dire trouble.

You can claim all the genius qualities you desire.
But your words have already defined you 

You have shown to be a 'political being' with extremist characteristics.
You define reality from a political bias.

And you aren't fooling the people you've been avoiding in debate.

Me, I'm the King of Ohio. 
You can worship me at your leisure. lol.


----------



## Johnny b

PS......( I'm not really a King )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................................... A scientist that strays from the accepted ideology is rare these days because he has to try a lot harder to get funding for his research. An example is a climate scientist named John Christy. He works for the same college that I went to school at.


In this modern world of computers, it's pretty easy to check out claims.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/02112020/john-christy-alabama-climate-contrarian/



> *A contrarian and outsider in the climate community, he provided the credentials that bolstered the administration's roll back of environmental protections.*
> ...............
> 
> As the Trump administration went about weakening vehicle fuel economy standards earlier this year, the climatologist John Christy made his own calculations of how the change would affect Earth's climate.
> 
> His conclusion: Not at all.
> 
> In an analysis he put together for the Environmental Protection Agency's elite board of outside science advisors, of which he was a member, Christy argued that Earth's climate simply wasn't that sensitive to changes in carbon dioxide.
> ............
> 
> He has argued before Congress and elsewhere that the Earth is not heating as quickly as climate models predict, and that society should not make the costly decision to curb fossil fuel consumption based on what he often describes as the "murky" science of climate change.


Interesting video here:
https://www.al.com/news/2020/11/whe...ist-they-called-on-alabamas-john-christy.html





John Christy of the University of Alabama at Huntsville testified before the House of Representatives Natural Resources Committee on May 13, 2015, that carbon dioxide emissions have no significant impact on climate change

Listen from :50 up to minute 1:51.
He is correct that stopping all human activity all at once would only have a minor, almost insignificant change in temperature in 50 years.
This has been mentioned at TSG in the last year or so..
What he didn't divulge is why so small.
The reason is the ocean acting as a CO2 sink, that is highly saturated with CO2, would then be expelling CO2 back into the atmosphere as a chemical response seeking balance. The time line would be lengthy and there would be a more consistent temperature associated with it.
I have not only addressed this concept in our existing climate thread, I also presented a scientific article of the same nature some 15 years ago in our previous debate forum.
The reason why was included.

IMO, that's not sloppy science. Imo, it's intellectually dishonest.

Commentary on Christy's science......
https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_John_Christy.htm

Thanks, Ed.
Now I know you a lot better.


----------



## Johnny b

Time to post a Biden positive that Trump anti-democratic extremists are sure to painfully whine about.
With out any physical hostilities between Russia and the US, Biden has been bringing an enemy to financial destruction. And he is accomplishing it by appealing for support from our allies. Remember? Those friendly nations that Trump abused.

* Russia at risk of default within days *
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...arus-mightily-close-default-world-bank-warns/



> Russia is facing effective bankruptcy as soon as Wednesday after the World Bank warned that crippling sanctions have left the Kremlin "mighty close" to a default on its foreign debts.


Things could go wrong and I hope they don't, but it's a better strategy than Trumptonian accommodation of an enemy.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................
> 
> Over the years I have known and worked with many scientists and engineers. We rarely talked about politics. However, it was known that to get ahead or even keep your job you had to do work that favored the political elites in Washington. Herd mentality is alive and well these days. A scientist that strays from the accepted ideology is rare these days because he has to try a lot harder to get funding for his research. An example is a climate scientist named John Christy. He works for the same college that I went to school at.


A few more minutes of research on Christy 

John Christy is a well known partner of 'Oil lobbyist' and climatologist, Ron Spencer.
I'm doubtful this pair had any problems getting funding for their obviously biased research lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy


> He is best known, jointly with Roy Spencer, for the first successful development of a satellite temperature record.


Spencer denies he has any associations with the Oil Industry. So how can he be a lobbyist?
Not hard to discover at all.

https://www.facingsouth.org/2011/09/climate-science-contrarian-roy-spencers-oil-industry-ties.html
Too much to copy and paste, but read the sections of the article titled:
*Spencer's Big Oil connections
 George C. Marshall Institute.
Cornwall Alliance.
Encounter Books. 
Tech Central Station.*

So, this is Christy's 'partner':


> So while Spencer may have "never been asked by any oil company to perform any kind of service," he has certainly served the oil industry's interest in amplifying doubt about climate change and downplaying the scientific consensus that it's real and caused in large part by human activity.


No lack of financial support evident there, Ed.
All they have to do to keep it coming in is distortion of context and sophistry.
And they work out of the University you graduated from.
What a surprise.


----------



## Johnny b

In my local news:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/bus...is-on-right-track/MUOL55ICERBIPOWLVLGVWHQXSU/



> Inflation has everyone's attention now but there are also plenty of signs the U.S. economy is on the right track as we enter the third year of the COVID-19 pandemic.












I suspect when the data comes in from the effects of Putin's war, the results will be less positive.

While elements of the US whine and moan in comfort, death and suffering stalks the Ukrainians.
Trump and the extremist far right news media never should have sided with Putin.
It only encouraged him.
The main difference between the Communist KGB Putin and the Putin of today seems to be the business suit he wears.
Meanwhile, another evil walks the planet, still dressed as a fat man with a red hat and tie.


----------



## MisterEd51

So it really wasn't Russian propaganda after all!

The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy (March 17, 2022)
https://reason.com/2022/03/17/the-n...ens-abandoned-laptop-are-real-and-newsworthy/

Spies who lie: 51 'intelligence' experts refuse to apologize for discrediting true Hunter Biden story (March 18, 2022)
https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/intel...to-apologize-for-smearing-hunter-biden-story/

Wouldn't the world be better off if the Democrats stopped thinking that it is no big deal to lie. Of course that is too much to ask. Even now Biden is blaming inflation and high gas prices on Putin. The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


----------



## MisterEd51

In a campaign ad a governor says

“Growing up, my mom and dad told us, ‘If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.’ Well, here is what I have to say about Joe Biden...”. After a few moments of silence the governor says, “Poor Joe… Bless his heart.”


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> So it really wasn't Russian propaganda after all!
> 
> The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy (March 17, 2022)
> https://reason.com/2022/03/17/the-n...ens-abandoned-laptop-are-real-and-newsworthy/
> 
> Spies who lie: 51 'intelligence' experts refuse to apologize for discrediting true Hunter Biden story (March 18, 2022)
> https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/intel...to-apologize-for-smearing-hunter-biden-story/
> 
> Wouldn't the world be better off if the Democrats stopped thinking that it is no big deal to lie. Of course that is too much to ask. Even now Biden is blaming inflation and high gas prices on Putin. The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


It would be more interesting if had actually quoted the NYT.
If you were to post you're glad Hunter isn't the President, I suspect most would agree and I certainly would.

But alas, Hunter isn't.



> Spies who lie: 51 'intelligence' experts refuse to apologize for discrediting true Hunter Biden story .......


Shame on them.
So, do you have a link to that 'story' ( what ever it is) along with evidence/ proof or a valid reason why that it's 'factually correct?

And a reason why should I care?



> The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


Still bitter over Trump losing that election, I see 

Well, let me put your mind to rest, I did not vote for Hunter


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> In a campaign ad a governor says
> 
> "Growing up, my mom and dad told us, 'If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.' Well, here is what I have to say about Joe Biden...". After a few moments of silence the governor says, "Poor Joe… Bless his heart."


LOL!

So, what's your favorite ant-acid?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> So it really wasn't Russian propaganda after all!
> .................
> 
> The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


I was thinking of your post when I read this:

* Biden warns US companies of potential Russian cyberattacks *
https://www.daytondailynews.com/nat...sian-cyberattacks/OVJJZ7PFS5CNLBEMCSAKEUBNNA/



> President Joe Biden on Monday urged U.S. companies to make sure their digital doors are locked tight because of "evolving intelligence" that Russia is considering launching cyberattacks against critical infrastructure targets as the war in Ukraine continues.


Do you think that is a lie?
And does it affect your apparent support of Putin?


----------



## Johnny b

How do you feel about this, Ed?

* Russia threatens to cut ties with US after Biden labels Putin a 'war criminal' *
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ss-further-russian-sanctions-as-cracks-emerge

In a recent post you sided with Russian propaganda.
And you claimed fact checking was...essentially....irrelevant because Biden always lies.
Reading the above article, do you think Putin is merely misunderstood?
Do you believe main stream news has been lying to us about that Russian invasion of Ukraine?


----------



## Johnny b

Well, Ed.....this doesn't really come as a surprise to me.

It does involve Biden. As the candidate legally elected and the response by those wanting an authoritarian ( aka dictator ) in charge instead.

The problem is, how will Biden handle future attempts at sedition and insurrection.

* The real - and far scarier - reason Republicans think Biden is illegitimate *
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/21/republicans-biden-trump-election-democracy

Personally, I think it's unfair to call it strictly, a 'Republican' issue.
It's more the fascist, Dixiecrat, libertarian anarchist, militant militia, racist element of the GOP.
( damn.....that is a lot! ) And let's not forget the Q.



> Many conservatives don't think the 2020 election was stolen. But they believe democracy itself has betrayed America, by allowing the 'wrong' people to take charge


IMO, It's amazing how much the term 'conservative' has changed over time, in my lifetime alone.
I remember a time when conservatives actually supported and defended the concept of 'democracy'. The Constitution as written rather than imagined.

Now they play pretend mercenaries, wrap them selves in the flag while wearing horns claiming to be shaman, or promoting anti-science and denying anything/everything that doesn't fit their extremist political rhetoric. And of course there's that Q cult.

And they all absolutely hate Joe Biden 
All of them.

So rabid, I watched Marjorie T Greene give an anti Biden speech recently where she demanded the end of US involvement in global trade. Imagine that. A 'Republican' that was anti-business.
I was rather surprised. She was so open about it. ( I did post that video  ).
More so when her audience started clapping their hands and cheering her on.
'Conservative'?
Hmmmm? I really don't think so.

I remember when the term 'Republican' inferred support of a democratically elected republic. Not so much these days.

Soooo.....How will Biden heal those divisions?


----------



## Johnny b

Oh...btw Ed.....I haven't forgotten about Hunter's laptop.
Just waiting on a response from you


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> So it really wasn't Russian propaganda after all!
> ...................
> 
> The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


No wonder headlines like this trouble you:

* Calling Putin a war criminal is a bigger deal than you think *
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/putin-war-criminal-ukraine-russia-what-matters/index.html

( Oh my goodness.....that's a CNN website. Hope it doesn't offend you too much )

So, Ed.....do you think it's a lie that Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL ?

Ed?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> So it really wasn't Russian propaganda after all!
> 
> The New York Times Belatedly Admits the Emails on Hunter Biden's Abandoned Laptop Are Real and Newsworthy (March 17, 2022)
> https://reason.com/2022/03/17/the-n...ens-abandoned-laptop-are-real-and-newsworthy/
> 
> Spies who lie: 51 'intelligence' experts refuse to apologize for discrediting true Hunter Biden story (March 18, 2022)
> https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/intel...to-apologize-for-smearing-hunter-biden-story/
> 
> Wouldn't the world be better off if the Democrats stopped thinking that it is no big deal to lie. Of course that is too much to ask. Even now Biden is blaming inflation and high gas prices on Putin. The best way to understand what Biden is saying is to assume everything he says is a lie. That saves a lot of fact checking.


Typical, lol, looks like you aren't coming back till you google another winger headline.
And I know why neither you or your links referred directly to that NYT article.

Is Hunter a crook?
It certainly looks like he's been more than bending the law.
That's always been a concern.
But, there is one element in that NYT article that distances his activities from his father, Joe.
And you weren't honest enough to post a link to that article for all to read.
I can see why.
I'll post the link and the quote you are probably worried what others reading your claims might come to realize:

* Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Broad Federal Investigation Continues *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-tax-bill-investigation.html


> In the same April 2014 email, Hunter Biden indicated that Burisma's officials "need to know in no uncertain terms that we will not and cannot intervene directly with domestic policymakers, and that we need to abide by FARA and any other U.S. laws in the strictest sense across the board."


(underlining by me)

Gotcha 

The Washington Post had an interesting article about the media's initial reaction to the 'laptop story' :

*The forgotten - and ignored - context for the emergence of the Hunter Biden laptop story* 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-context-emergence-hunter-biden-laptop-story/

Any way, the biggest problem you have with sticking it to Hunter with that laptop, is chain of evidence.
What's in it might lead to legal problems for Hunter, but it seems doubtful it could be used as direct evidence in a court.


----------



## Wino

Hunter Biden - Making mountains out of mole hills. He had no power in past, none now. If he did something illegal he should be punished, same as our past orange ex-prez for his treason and most of his family for criminal activity. In the scheme of things, Hunter Biden is a nothing burger - just something for whiney wingers to piss and moan over.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Hunter Biden - Making mountains out of mole hills. He had no power in past, none now. If he did something illegal he should be punished, same as our past orange ex-prez for his treason and most of his family for criminal activity. In the scheme of things, Hunter Biden is a nothing burger - just something for whiney wingers to piss and moan over.


That's funny because Democrats like to make mountains out of B.S.

The same people that lied about Hunter Biden also lied and said Trump colluded with the Russians. I think anyone that still thinks that Trump colluded with the Russians is "One Short of A Six Pack ". Especially since the government spent millions of dollars and still couldn't prove it. If you have any proof bring it on. If you can prove it then you must be smarter than all the Democrats because they couldn't. Hint it's hard to prove something that was never true in the first place. That's why all those people had to lie about.

There is plenty of evidence that Hunter Biden was corrupt and kicked back money to his family including big Joe himself. Sound like a criminal family to me. This was no small crime since millions of dollars was involved.

I don't get Democrats. They think its OK to be a criminal and get rich from it. I feel sorry for Biden. Biden and his family are not smart enough to earn money the legal way so they have to bribe and extort their way to prosperity. Biden must think all the Democrats who voted for him are real dumb. That is because most of them probably knew how corrupt he was but voted for him anyways.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Hunter Biden - Making mountains out of mole hills. He had no power in past, none now. If he did something illegal he should be punished, same as our past orange ex-prez for his treason and most of his family for criminal activity. In the scheme of things, Hunter Biden is a nothing burger - just something for whiney wingers to piss and moan over.


Indeed.

I can't say....I feel sorry for Hunter. He's had a lot of advantages most in our society will never get. And I've known many people in my life that have seen and experienced tragedy that never ruined their lives in such a way....that had none of those perks.

Imo....his social position, his established social conscience with morals and ethics....have simply been used as a political tool to disparage his father.
And when you look at those low lifes doing it, it's incredibly easy to see they're of a significant threat to our existence as free individuals.

That second link I posted 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-context-emergence-hunter-biden-laptop-story/
names many of those players.

But Ed wanted a discussion about that laptop.
From that second link:


> When the Post first reported on its possession of material from Hunter Biden's laptop, it shared a PDF of an email included in that material. That PDF carried metadata indicating that it was created on *Oct. 10, 2019*, meaning that either it was created on a machine that had the wrong date set or that it was created after the laptop came into Mac Isaac's possession.
> ...........
> Giuliani was in Ukraine looking to dig up dirt disparaging Joe Biden. That included meeting with a member of the Ukrainian parliament who was later sanctioned by the Treasury Department as a Russian agent.
> .................
> The first time the Post saw the material was on *Oct. 4*. By *Oct. 11*, Giuliani had handed over the entire duplicated contents of the hard drive and the newspaper began debating how to handle it.


Reality check.......what a bunch of dumb bunnies.
And obviously a big disappointment to Putin.
Losing control of the White House made it a lot harder to invade Ukraine.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> That's funny because Democrats like to make mountains out of B.S.
> .................


You remember that from your days as a Democrat?

LOL!

Were you a Democrat or a Dixiecrat Democrat that flipped into the GOP?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .................
> 
> The same people that lied about Hunter Biden also lied and said Trump colluded with the Russians. ................


I want lists and linkage


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The same people that lied about Hunter Biden also lied and said Trump colluded with the Russians. I think anyone that still thinks that Trump colluded with the Russians is "One Short of A Six Pack "....................


Do you often explain your logic in terms of alcohol abuse?

lol!

Good one Ed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> There is plenty of evidence that Hunter Biden was corrupt and kicked back money to his family including big Joe himself. .........


And yet, you haven't presented any inkage to convince anyone of that claim of kickbacks to his father.
Talks cheap.
Get crackin' Ed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .................
> 
> I don't get Democrats. They think its OK to be a criminal and get rich from it.............


Hello Comrade.....

Ed, trolling like that is just so highschoolish.

Wealth envy is your affliction and you're hanging out with a wrong crowd.
Wannabee tyrants and despots like Trump and Putin don't share what they steal.
If you want to get rich, I suggest you work for it.
Fascist leaches are no better than socialist leaches.
Actually, they have a common goal. Authoritarian rule.
Similar results: suffering.
It's just the paths to that goal that differ.
You appear to be advocating for one of those paths.


----------



## Wino

I see a bit of projection in mr. eds response to my post. Typical rw response. Sigh.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I see a bit of projection in mr. eds response to my post. Typical rw response. Sigh.




'a bit'?

yeah.


----------



## Johnny b

On to 'Biden stuff'

Putin makes the nuclear threat.

* Putin ally warns of nuclear dystopia due to United States *
https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-ally-says-united-states-is-trying-destroy-russia-2022-03-23/



> One of President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned the United States on Wednesday that the world could spiral towards a nuclear dystopia if Washington pressed on with what the Kremlin casts as a long-term plot to destroy Russia.


Trump claims he'd line up nuclear subs along the Russian coasts as a deterrent.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...nes-to-russias-coast-to-pressure-putin-2022-3

But would he if he were still in power?
Or is it just an invitation to Putin to start a war during Biden's Presidency?
It would be a convenient way for Trump to get rid of Biden and assume power.

I suspect it's an invitation.

IMO, there is likely to be a confrontation but it's Biden's job to see to our best interests, not Trump's to lead from the sidelines in anticipation of becoming the next President.


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I can't say....I feel sorry for Hunter. He's had a lot of advantages most in our society will never get. And I've known many people in my life that have seen and experienced tragedy that never ruined their lives in such a way....that had none of those perks.
> 
> Imo....his social position, his established social conscience with morals and ethics....have simply been used as a political tool to disparage his father.
> And when you look at those low lifes doing it, it's incredibly easy to see they're of a significant threat to our existence as free individuals.
> 
> That second link I posted
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-context-emergence-hunter-biden-laptop-story/
> names many of those players.
> 
> But Ed wanted a discussion about that laptop.
> From that second link:
> 
> Reality check.......what a bunch of dumb bunnies.
> And obviously a big disappointment to Putin.
> Losing control of the White House made it a lot harder to invade Ukraine.


You should study history more.

2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.

What do these two events have in common? Biden of course.
Notice that Putin only invaded Ukraine when there were weak presidents in office.

Note that Obama picked Biden as VP only because he was weaker and more indecisive than he was. Putin knew he had it made in Ukraine when Biden cut and ran in Afghanistan.

Putin didn't invade Ukraine when Trump was President because Trump was no pushover like Obama. Biden showed his true muster when at first he said he wouldn't object to Putin only taking a piece of Ukraine. Then Putin made threats if any country interfered in Ukraine he might use lethal force in response. Biden's response was he didn't want to make Mr. Putin mad so he backed off.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> You should study history more.
> 
> 2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
> 2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.
> 
> What do these two events have in common? Biden of course.
> 2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
> 2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.
> 
> Note that Obama picked Biden as VP only because he was weaker and more indecisive than he was. Putin knew he had it made in Ukraine when Biden cut and ran in Afghanistan.
> 
> Putin didn't invade Ukraine when Trump was President because Trump was no pushover like Obama. Biden showed his true muster when at first he said he wouldn't object to Putin only taking a piece of Ukraine. Then Putin made threats if any country interfered in Ukraine he might use lethal force in response. Biden's response was he didn't want to make Mr. Putin mad so he backed off.





> 2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
> 2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.


Ed, that's about all you got right.



> What do these two events have in common? Biden of course.
> Notice that Putin only invaded Ukraine when there were weak presidents in office.


Ed....? do you review what you post?
Obama was the President in 2014, not Biden.
You have a legitimate complaint that Obama was weak.
I thought so, too.
I not only didn't vote for the man, I complained a lot about most of his Presidency.
But he wasn't responsible for Putin's aggression.
Neither is Biden.

You just made yourself an obvious apologist for Putin.
Way to go.
Can I call 'em or what? 



> Note that Obama picked Biden as VP only because he was weaker and more indecisive than he was.


Point of logic here. Are you claiming 'weakness' is aggression that starts wars?
Isn't it more logical to state that Putin leveraged that weakness for his own advantage knowing his aggression would be that needed advantage? Indeed.



> Putin didn't invade Ukraine when Trump was President because Trump was no pushover like Obama.


OK Ed 
That was down right funny lol.
Putin didn't need to invade while Trump was President.
And he didn't need to pull back from Crimea either.
He wanted more.
But lost his man in the White House.
Now his task became more difficult.



> Biden showed his true muster when at first he said he wouldn't object to Putin only taking a piece of Ukraine. Then Putin made threats if any country interfered in Ukraine he might use lethal force in response. Biden's response was he didn't want to make Mr. Putin mad so he backed off.


Where in the world do you get such ideas?

Well....at least you've admitted to siding with that genocidal (ex)KGB (supposed)Christian Dictator in Russia.
I've kinda thought so for quite a while....

( damn, that's one hell of a job description. Not even Trump can top that. )


----------



## Johnny b

As I posted earlier, we now have Trump inviting a nuclear exchange with Russia


MisterEd51 said:


> You should study history more.
> 
> 2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
> 2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.
> ....................


Some bad news for you guys that support Russian aggression.
And remember Ed, this is all on Putin. Not Biden.

*As Russia Stalls in Ukraine, Dissent Brews Over Putin's Leadership *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/22/world/europe/putin-russia-military-planning.html



> In Russia, the slow going and the heavy toll of President Vladimir V. Putin's war on Ukraine are setting off questions about his military's planning capability, his confidence in his top spies and loyal defense minister, and the quality of the intelligence that reaches him. It also shows the pitfalls of Mr. Putin's top-down governance, in which officials and military officers have little leeway to make their own decisions and adapt to developments in real time.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> You should study history more.
> 
> 2014 - Russia invades and takes Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
> 2022 - Russia invades Ukraine to finish the job.
> ....................


Here's some history for you,and it's rather current:

* As many as 15,000 Russian troops have been killed in Ukraine, NATO says; US accuses Russia of war crimes: Live updates *
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...aine-russia-invasion-live-updates/7136107001/



> Russia has suffered 30,000 to 40,000 battlefield casualties, including 7,000 to 15,000 killed, a senior NATO military officer said in a briefing Wednesday from the alliance's military headquarters in Belgium.





> Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Wednesday the United States has determined Russian forces have committed war crimes in Ukraine.
> 
> "Today, I can announce that, based on information currently available, the U.S. government assesses that members of Russia's forces have committed war crimes in Ukraine," Blinken said in a statement.





> President Joe Biden embarked Wednesday on a multi-day trip to Europe, where he'll talk with allies about the ongoing response to Russia's invasion, including military assistance for Ukraine and new sanctions on Russia.


The Biden Administration has openly accused Russian forces of war crimes.
Ed? Do you agree with the charges? Or object?
What is your position about the comments from some leading Republicans that have been cheering on those crimes?


----------



## Johnny b

This obviously must be Biden's fault (  )

* New jobless claims fall to 187,000, setting more than five-decade low *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/weekly-jobless-claims-week-ended-march-19-2022-183206198.html

This is sure to upset The Donald and infuriate his master, Vlad. 
Can't have that, can we now.


----------



## Johnny b

Interesting news event:

The wife of Supreme Court Justice Thomas appears to have been implicated in the attempted overthrow of the US Government.

* Ginni Thomas, Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, exchanged texts with Mark Meadows about efforts to overturn the 2020 election
*
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-ginni-thomas-clarence-wife-mark-meadows-texts-2020-election/

* Virginia Thomas urged White House chief to pursue unrelenting efforts to overturn the 2020 election, texts show *
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/24/virginia-thomas-mark-meadows-texts/

* First on CNN: January 6 committee has text messages between Ginni Thomas and Mark Meadows *
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/24/politics/ginni-thomas-mark-meadows-text-messages/index.html


----------



## Johnny b

When support of the Russian Dictator is taken into account, done by many of the same politicians and even members of the general public..... that were also complicit in the January 6th acts to overthrow the US Government, it is looking more and more like treason as new information about these peoples activities surfaces.


----------



## Johnny b

CBS News video:


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Interesting news event:
> 
> The wife of Supreme Court Justice Thomas appears to have been implicated in the attempted overthrow of the US Government.
> 
> * Ginni Thomas, Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, exchanged texts with Mark Meadows about efforts to overturn the 2020 election*
> 
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-ginni-thomas-clarence-wife-mark-meadows-texts-2020-election/
> 
> * Virginia Thomas urged White House chief to pursue unrelenting efforts to overturn the 2020 election, texts show *
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/24/virginia-thomas-mark-meadows-texts/
> 
> * First on CNN: January 6 committee has text messages between Ginni Thomas and Mark Meadows *
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/24/politics/ginni-thomas-mark-meadows-text-messages/index.html


Excerpt from CNN Link:

"The work of the January 6 select committee has already come before the Supreme Court. In January, the court did not stand in the way of the release of thousands of documents from the Trump White House despite the former President suing to keep them secret under executive privilege. The vote on the matter was 8-1, with only Thomas dissenting."

Doesn't appear Justice Thomas is an independent thinker, just another DJT worshiper.


----------



## Johnny b

Imagine that....
A judge sitting on the highest court , does not convince his wife that her actions just might be seen in a criminal light?

LOL!

We know what she was thinking....
But what was he thinking? !

Impeach Thomas!!!!


----------



## Wino

Thomas, like Kavanaugh, should never been there in the first place - IMHO.


----------



## Johnny b

An old NYT article that presented questionable ethics that obviously should have been investigated more thoroughly:

* Clarence Thomas's Wife Asks Anita Hill for Apology *
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/us/politics/20thomas.html



> Ms. Thomas, 53, has long been active in conservative circles in Washington. In the past year she has become more prominent as the founder of a new nonprofit activist group, Liberty Central, which is dedicated to opposing what she has characterized as the leftist "tyranny" of the Obama administration and Congressional Democrats. The group has drawn scrutiny in part because of the unusual circumstance of a spouse of a sitting Supreme Court justice drawing a salary from a group financed by anonymous donors.


An interesting read here:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Liberty_Central

This stands out at the end:


> Further, according to the Liberty Central website, Ms. Thomas "is a fan of Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin and Laura Ingraham and other talk radio hosts," and "is intrigued by Glenn Beck."


Looking like Ginni was merely a conduit of rightwing extremism into the Supreme Court.
For a long time.


----------



## Bastiat

Johnny b said:


> Looking like Ginni was merely a conduit of rightwing extremism into the Supreme Court.
> For a long time.


As someone who has to read Supreme Court decisions, I can tell you that Clarence makes her look like a far left liberal. The rightwing extremism is there and has been. He writes dissenting opinions that make you think that he believes Plessy v. Ferguson was decided correctly.


----------



## Johnny b

Bastiat said:


> As someone who has to read Supreme Court decisions, I can tell you that Clarence makes her look like a far left liberal. The rightwing extremism is there and has been. He writes dissenting opinions that make you think that he believes Plessy v. Ferguson was decided correctly.


Hi Bastiat. Hope all is well.

I had to look that up.

He also lies on his tax returns ( excuse me for laughing )

https://www.salon.com/2011/01/24/supreme_court_conflicts/


----------



## MisterEd51

Conservative think that Supreme Court Judges should be originalist in they interpret the Constitution as what the founders intended.

Liberals think Supreme Court Judges should consider the Constitution as a living document subject to reinterpretation of the view of the majority of people at the current time. In other words, make it up as you go along. Correction, what they really mean is what the people in charge think even if it is contrary to the thinking of the majority of Americans.

All this is because Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, Marxists, or whatever they want to call themselves think they are smarter than everyone else and have superior thinking. Obviously, with that kind of thinking they must consider the original founders of out country as extremist also. That is why they identify more with people like Joseph Stalin, Hugo Chávez, and Che Guevara.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Thomas, like Kavanaugh, should never been there in the first place - IMHO.


Why? Kavanaugh was accused of unsubstantiated lies and smears. Democrats love to do that because they are shameless. I hope you are proud that Kavanaugh had to send his wife and children out of the room because the smears got ugly.

Notice how different the hearing is with Jackson. Republicans were criticized for just asking about her past court decisions or her opinion of current matters. For Democrats it was a lovefest. Like all current progressives she couldn't even define what a Woman is.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Conservative think that Supreme Court Judges should be originalist in they interpret the Constitution as what the founders intended.
> 
> Liberals think Supreme Court Judges should consider the Constitution as a living document subject to reinterpretation of the view of the majority of people at the current time. In other words, make it up as you go along. Correction, what they really mean is what the people in charge think even if it is contrary to the thinking of the majority of Americans.
> 
> All this is because Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, Marxists, or whatever they want to call themselves think they are smarter than everyone else and have superior thinking. Obviously, with that kind of thinking they must consider the original founders of out country as extremist also. That is why they identify more with people like Joseph Stalin, Hugo Chávez, and Che Guevara.


So why do you argue in a fashion that contradicts the US Constitution?

( I suspect denial but more likely silence. As usual. )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Why? Kavanaugh was accused of unsubstantiated lies and smears. Democrats love to do that because they are shameless. I hope you are proud that Kavanaugh had to send his wife and children out of the room because the smears got ugly.
> 
> Notice how different the hearing is with Jackson. Republicans were criticized for just asking about her past court decisions or her opinion of current matters. For Democrats it was a lovefest. Like all current progressives she couldn't even define what a Woman is.


And there you go 
:up:
Oblivious to the new issue of possible treason from the White House to the Supreme Court......( or is the other way round?  )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Conservative think that Supreme Court Judges should be originalist in they interpret the Constitution as what the founders intended.
> ..............................


I don't think you have a clue.
We just had a constitutional lawyer comment several posts back.
He is a conservative. And that is not an insult I'm throwing out.

So far you have posted in incredible ignorance,imo of course. (  )

You don't have a clue.
You don't even understand who you are addressing here.

If you haven't read many of my posts or positions on politics, maybe you should start.

This is me :










The only way to get those cards is be a member of the GOP ....and donate.

And I've never been a Democrat.

But I have been threatening to leave the GOP !!!

IMO, there are simply too many non-republican loons that have been attracted to the GOP over the last 3 to 4 decades and it's gotten absurd during the Trump fiasco.

Maybe it's simply the legalization of drug abuse?










Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump


You guys on the fringe would be hilarious if you weren't so dangerous. meh.


----------



## Johnny b

BTW....I quit donating after the 2016 election 
I do have some earlier cards, but they've recently quit coming lol!


----------



## Bastiat

Johnny b the GOP already left you. 
PS: All is well. Hope the same for you.


----------



## Johnny b

I'm afraid so, Bastiat.
I'm from a different time.
Been that way a while.

All hasn't been well.
Had an issue with a meningioma. An unusually big one. 
In many ways, I'm not the same guy you used to know.
Worst part is I'm not able to ride as much as I used to.
And I'm a lot calmer


----------



## Johnny b

Welcome to the 'Land of Qanon'.

This could have just as easily gone into my 'Nutter' thread, but imo way too serious in effects and more relevant in this one.

Seriously, how the hell could any sane person come up with such a distorted sense of reality?

* Clarence Thomas' wife told Mark Meadows that 'the Biden crime family' and 'ballot fraud co-conspirators' would be 'living in barges off GITMO to face military tribunals for sedition,' texts show *
https://www.businessinsider.com/gin...mily-would-be-sent-to-barges-off-gitmo-2022-3

Way too much to post all.
A small sample:



> "Biden crime family & ballot fraud co-conspirators (elected officials, bureaucrats, social media censorship mongers, fake stream media reporters, etc) are being arrested & detained for ballot fraud right now & over coming days, & will be living in barges off GITMO to face military tribunals for sedition," Thomas wrote in a message on November 5, 2020, two days after the presidential election, according to the Post.


----------



## Johnny b

Connecting the dots......

* Don't Miss These Two Revelations in the Massive Sea of News About Trump's Coup Attempt *
https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...urn-2020-election-supreme-court-ginni-thomas/

Too much to copy and paste. An interesting read.
It's about timelines.
And arguing a case in front of a Supreme Court Trump not only had influence, from seating a sizable number of the Judges, he also appeared to have a secret 'pipeline' into one of them. That infers a lot of control over a Court by a man trying to overthrow a legal election. Using that Court to do it.
Good thing for us, it didn't work out to his favor.


----------



## crjdriver

At least Jimmy Carter is happy; he is no longer the worst President. 
If you want to see biden at his best, checkout skynews. They show unedited biden gaffs.


----------



## Johnny b

Some might think I've been unfair focusing on extremists of the GOP.
Well, elements have been hogging the limelight from sedition/insurrection to support of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Well. Here's Tulsi Gabbard a Democrat being interviewed by Hannity:

* Hannity presses Tulsi Gabbard on her opposition to Ukraine aid: 'You're ducking' *
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...n-to-ukraine-aid-youre-ducking-072522088.html

IMO, her position is just as unacceptable as is the national socialist movement in the GOP.
I often wondered what steppenwolf saw in her.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> At least Jimmy Carter is happy; he is no longer the worst President.
> If you want to see biden at his best, checkout skynews. They show unedited biden gaffs.



Why not Alex Jones?
Biden makes gaffs 

I remember an Obama speech where Obama referred to 57 States of the US.

But really, I rather doubt there's much competition against the 4 years of Trump.
By any other President of either party.

All gaffs considered, only Trump seems to have been involved in sedition and insurrection.
And Trump seems to have been the only President impeached twice, and all within the same term.

The gaffs make us laugh and Biden will probably continue to humor us 
But....he'll be judged on what he does and how well he does it. Or should be.

He didn't handle the exit from Afghanistan well. 
So far, he does seem to be handling the crisis in Ukraine appropriately.
But there is a lot to go wrong.
IMO, it's not best to be arguing for a failure there.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> ut really, I rather doubt there's much competition against the 4 years of Trump.


Yeah, low gas prices, exporter of energy, record stock market gains, low inflation.....
Contrast that with Biden; gas price at all time high, near record inflation, importer of energy from countries that do not like us. Biden is just doing a wonderful job....
Biden could not be more of a joke even if he tried.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Yeah, low gas prices, exporter of energy, record stock market gains, low inflation.....
> Contrast that with Biden; gas price at all time high, near record inflation, importer of energy from countries that do not like us. Biden is just doing a wonderful job....
> Biden could not be more of a joke even if he tried.


Please, let's focus on reality rather than worn out dogma.

Covid-19 and the war in Europe are responsible for most of the inflation we're seeing.
Biden does have a lot to prove and 3 years to accomplish corrections.

The Trump era is history and he's judged on what he did and the status of the US as he left the Presidency. And I don't have to detail the unnecessary deaths nor his failed economic plans. That reality is what Biden inherited and has to address.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Please, let's focus on reality rather than worn out dogma.


I guess facts do wear you out. Fact is gas prices started up long before putin invaded Ukraine. Inflation started to increase when oil prices started to skyrocket [oh yeah that was because of a shortage of domestic energy caused by closing keystone AND by limiting oil/gas leases AND by increased regulation on the oil/gas industry]
Biden owns inflation, sky high gas prices and the completely screwed up withdrawal from Afghanistan.

As I said, biden and the cackling moron could not be more of a joke IF they tried. 
Jimmy Carter must be the happiest man alive since he is no longer the worst President in history.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I guess facts do wear you out. Fact is gas prices started up long before putin invaded Ukraine. Inflation started to increase when oil prices started to skyrocket [oh yeah that was because of a shortage of domestic energy caused by closing keystone AND by limiting oil/gas leases AND by increased regulation on the oil/gas industry]
> Biden owns inflation, sky high gas prices and the completely screwed up withdrawal from Afghanistan.
> 
> As I said, biden and the cackling moron could not be more of a joke IF they tried.
> Jimmy Carter must be the happiest man alive since he is no longer the worst President in history.


You're just bitter 

Covid-19 and the war in Europe exist, having to prove them as factual seems rather petty, don't you think?

Quite an economic dynamic.

Covid-19......supply meet demand. Petroleum products were in excess supply as the economy stalled out in the first year of the pandemic.

crj.....this is worth reading.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2020/article/from-the-barrel-to-the-pump.htm

Today with the crisis in Europe, the trend has been reversed.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60642786

Now consider the costs of infrastructure rebuilding because of Covid-19 and the debt load it incurs
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/futu...0/navigating-the-debt-legacy-of-the-pandemic/

Conclusion: It's obviously not Biden's fault, but it is his task to address those issues.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> .......................... [oh yeah that was because of a shortage of domestic energy caused by closing keystone AND by limiting oil/gas leases AND by increased regulation on the oil/gas industry]
> .................................


You appear to be confused.
Maybe you should be looking to market analysts rather than politicians and political pundits.

*What would it take for U.S. oil companies to ramp up production? A lot. *
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...anies-to-ramp-up-production-a-lot-11648146295

BTW.....Canada is our biggest source of imported petroleum. About 50%.
Remember them? The friendly neighbor and ally that Trump imposed a trade war on?

And then there's this:
* Biden to resume federal oil and gas development under stricter rules as 'social cost of carbon' is battled in court  *
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...ttled-in-court-11647883860?mod=article_inline

This stands out:


> Drilling on public lands represents 7% of domestically produced oil CL00, -1.12% and 8% of domestically produced natural gas. In 2019, fossil fuels were the source of about 74% of total U.S. human-caused greenhouse gas emissions.


What does it mean? ( rhetorical )
It means most drilling and exploration in the US is on private property that the US government doesn't license.
This has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum.
I thought you had read it?
If not, there it is again.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> As I said, biden and the cackling moron could not be more of a joke IF they tried.
> Jimmy Carter must be the happiest man alive since he is no longer the worst President in history.




( I just did that for the post count  )


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> Why? Kavanaugh was accused of unsubstantiated lies and smears. Democrats love to do that because they are shameless. I hope you are proud that Kavanaugh had to send his wife and children out of the room because the smears got ugly.
> 
> Notice how different the hearing is with Jackson. Republicans were criticized for just asking about her past court decisions or her opinion of current matters. For Democrats it was a lovefest. Like all current progressives she couldn't even define what a Woman is.


It should have been "Justice" Merrik Garland rather than Kavanaugh.

Yeah, the little I watched of the hearings was ridiculous. Your guys were quite the clowns and buffoons we all know them to be.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> You appear to be confused.
> Maybe you should be looking to market analysts rather than politicians and political pundits.
> 
> *What would it take for U.S. oil companies to ramp up production? A lot. *
> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...anies-to-ramp-up-production-a-lot-11648146295
> 
> BTW.....Canada is our biggest source of imported petroleum. About 50%.
> Remember them? The friendly neighbor and ally that Trump imposed a trade war on?
> 
> And then there's this:
> * Biden to resume federal oil and gas development under stricter rules as 'social cost of carbon' is battled in court  *
> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...ttled-in-court-11647883860?mod=article_inline
> 
> This stands out:
> 
> What does it mean? ( rhetorical )
> It means most drilling and exploration in the US is on private property that the US government doesn't license.
> This has been mentioned elsewhere in the forum.
> I thought you had read it?
> If not, there it is again.


You miss the point completely [as do a number of people] When you affect even a small amount of any give product [oil, natual gas, whatever] you cause a change in price. When the price goes up, a company cannot sell below market price [their shareholders would be up in arms] A company does not exist for the good of all, it exists to return a profit to the investors. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of management's fiduciary responsibility.

I actually saw/heard one of our idiot senators from Nevada asking an oil company executive if the company would forego paying a dividend so it could lower the price. The executive asked if she would be willing to call each shareholder and explain why they were not getting paid this quarter. Dead silence [on her part]


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> You miss the point completely [as do a number of people] When you affect even a small amount of any give product [oil, natual gas, whatever] you cause a change in price.....................


You seem to miss my point that events have been the largest factors in the price swings of petroleum and inflation.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> .................A company does not exist for the good of all, it exists to return a profit to the investors. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of management's fiduciary responsibility.
> .......................


Indeed.
But the issue is still supply and demand and the setting is during a war in Europe.
Our imported oil reflects a world market price and domestic production reflects our current economy.

Covid-19 and a war are the current culprits for most of what you complain about.
Blaming Biden for these conditions is simply fallacious.

Be assured. Inflation is likely to get worse. A lot of factors and one of them would be Biden's input, right or wrong.


----------



## crjdriver

Wrong [again] Price of oil when biden took office was $53.77. Just prior to Russia invading, the price of oil was approx $90.00 per barrel. Using simple math, that comes out to approx 68% increase BEFORE any invasion. While the increase from $90 to the current $112 is somewhat because of would events, the almost 70% increase prior had nothing to do with Russia, putin or anything other than biden's incompetence.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Be assured. Inflation is likely to get worse. A lot of factors and one of them would be Biden's input, right or wrong.


Something we can agree on. Inflation is going to get worse. I keep trying to explain to people that everything in a store traveled by truck. When the trucking company and or the store's trucks are paying over twice the amount for fuel, it makes every single item in that store cost more. Unless we start pumping a LOT of oil and drive the price down, inflation will get much worse. The one good thing will be in Nov, most of the incumbent members of the house will get thrown out of office.
Energy is a weapon; one that biden just handed over to putin.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Wrong [again] Price of oil when biden took office was $53.77. Just prior to Russia invading, the price of oil was approx $90.00 per barrel. Using simple math, that comes out to approx 68% increase BEFORE any invasion. While the increase from $90 to the current $112 is somewhat because of would events, the almost 70% increase prior had nothing to do with Russia, putin or anything other than biden's incompetence.


What's wrong?
A coming war drives up the prices of energy and commodities.



> Using simple math, that comes out to approx 68% increase BEFORE any invasion.


LOL!
Speculation, crj...speculation 

It's what Wall Street is built on.
It's what I look at when investing.



> the almost 70% increase prior had nothing to do with Russia, putin or anything other than biden's incompetence.


Biden had absolutely nothing to do with the damage done to the economy by Covid-19.
And your investing prowess in investing ignores speculation.

Hesitation is you fallacy.
Reality the teacher.

That's not Biden's fault.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Speculation, crj...speculation


No, that comes from an oil price chart. Very simple to check. If you do not believe me, just look it up. 
You can try and spin in any way you want, biden owns inflation. If you cannot see that simple fact, you are living in LaLa land. 


> That's not Biden's fault.


Yeah, it must be trump's fault since prices were lower, boarders were [more] secure, very low inflation, stock market at record highs..... Yeah, the current condition must be trump's fault.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Something we can agree on. Inflation is going to get worse. I keep trying to explain to people that everything in a store traveled by truck. When the trucking company and or the store's trucks are paying over twice the amount for fuel, it makes every single item in that store cost more. Unless we start pumping a LOT of oil and drive the price down, inflation will get much worse. The one good thing will be in Nov, most of the incumbent members of the house will get thrown out of office.
> Energy is a weapon; one that biden just handed over to putin.


No one likes inflation.
And everything will cost more because of it.
Not just fuel for trucks. 
All energy.
All commodities. 
All labor.
All medicines and health care products.
All All All All. Everything.
Inflation is not 'our friend'.

It doesn't change the fact that Covi-19 and the war in Europe are currently the main drivers of inflation.
Sure, we could have reduced some of those Covid-19 effects by wearing masks, social distancing and getting vaccinated.
But Trump made that a political issue and discouraged common sense approaches.
There still would have been a pandemic, but not of such epic proportions.
And the war in Europe......that issue goes even past Obama's poor handling of the Crimea invasion.
Carter, 911, Lost wars, 2008 Great Recession.....a lot of reasons we've been living with inflation.
I'm surprised it hasn't been worse.

But It NOT Biden's fault LOL!


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> No, that comes from an oil price chart. Very simple to check. If you do not believe me, just look it up. ...................


Speculation drives all investing, cjr.
There are no exceptions, only missed calls.

I'm aware you invest in stocks, I remember you posted a comment about your investment in AMD.
Obviously, you didn't wait until a dividend statement reflected a promising future.
Or did you just get lucky?

I am an investor.
I am very aware of the influence of speculation. So are most investors.

Charts graph data.
Speculation attempts to out guess it.
Some investors get it right, some aren't so lucky lol!

If you think a coming war isn't going to raise the prices of needful things, you are in for a surprise. It's only just begun.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> But It NOT Biden's fault LOL!


You keep believing that. While other events do share some culpability, biden is responsible for most of the problem. Where do you think putin got the money to invest in a war of revanchism? From the large increase in the price of oil that biden handed him.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden promises to send Europe more natural gas to wean it off Russian fuel. Does anyone really think he really can or want to do that? I wonder if he asked AOC if it was OK to do that?

Biden always blames someone or something else for his problems. When is he going to man up and start accepting responsibility for anything?


----------



## Johnny b

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51658

That was interesting.


crjdriver said:


> You keep believing that. While other events do share some culpability, biden is responsible for most of the problem. Where do you think putin got the money to invest in a war of revanchism? From the large increase in the price of oil that biden handed him.


Now you are claiming Biden financed the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

LOL!

Seriously, how did you come to that conclusion?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden promises to send Europe more natural gas to wean it off Russian fuel. Does anyone really think he really can or want to do that? I wonder if he asked AOC if it was OK to do that?
> 
> Biden always blames someone or something else for his problems. When is he going to man up and start accepting responsibility for anything?


Sounds like someone missed the boat on LNG futures LOL!
Good one Ed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden promises to send Europe more natural gas to wean it off Russian fuel. Does anyone really think he really can or want to do that? I wonder if he asked AOC if it was OK to do that?
> .......................


He probably can't.
It's an issue of extraction potential and available delivery options.

But it is a good idea to support allies. 
Hmmm...
But then, the 'free world' isn't seen as an ally through your eyes, is it?


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> Sounds like someone missed the boat on LNG futures LOL!
> Good one Ed


Back in 2018 Trump told Germany not to rely on Russian gas. He said the U.S. would supply them the LNG it needed. If they would have agreed then the infrastructure would have been in place by now to do that. Another thing Trump got right. Now Biden is promising the same thing. The difference is Trump meant it and would have done whatever it took to make it happen. On the other hand Biden has no intention on keeping that promise. His far left masters not only won't let him but he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to push back against them.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Seriously, how did you come to that conclusion?


Very simple; even a liberal could understand. How much did Russia spend on their military prior to the huge increase in oil revenue? During the oil glut [when we actually pumped oil] Military spending by Russia declined in 2016, 2017, and 2018. It stabilized somewhat in 2019 and started way up in 2020-2021. This is one reason why the Russians are having so much trouble. You cannot have pilots fly high performance aircraft only an hour or two per month. You are not even safe in the aircraft when you operate it so seldom; let alone fight in the aircraft. I am sure the same thing applies to the rest of the Russian military however aircraft are the only thing I have personal experience operating.


----------



## crjdriver

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden always blames someone or something else for his problems. When is he going to man up and start accepting responsibility for anything?


He did not even take responsibility for plagiarizing work in law school. You expect him to take responsibility his mistakes now????


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Back in 2018 Trump told Germany not to rely on Russian gas. He said the U.S. would supply them the LNG it needed. If they would have agreed then the infrastructure would have been in place by now to do that. Another thing Trump got right. Now Biden is promising the same thing. The difference is Trump meant it and would have done whatever it took to make it happen. On the other hand Biden has no intention on keeping that promise. His far left masters not only won't let him but he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to push back against them.





> Back in 2018 Trump told Germany not to rely on Russian gas. He said the U.S. would supply them the LNG it needed. If they would have agreed then the infrastructure would have been in place by now to do that


A little more to the story:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI


> Trump, meeting reporters with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, before a NATO summit in Brussels, said it was "very inappropriate" that the United States was paying for European defense against Russia while Germany, the biggest European economy, was supporting gas deals with Moscow.


True, a point, however the pipeline in question was a private endeavor, not taxpayer or government funded:


> Berlin has given political support to the building of a new, $11-billion pipeline to bring Russian gas across the Baltic Sea called Nord Stream 2, despite qualms among other EU states. However, Merkel insists the project is a private commercial venture and is not funded by German taxpayers.


But wait a minute....recently, Trump can be found both praising the Russians for Invading Ukraine and then, flip-flopping and criticizing them.
So how sincere was he at the time of his pipeline criticism?
What Trump too often says is what he thinks grants him the most acceptance. It it what he is. Forked tongue malevolent opportunist playing the Art of the Deal.

More:


> Trump renewed his call for other NATO allies to pay in more to the Western alliance after years in which U.S. taxpayers have, he said, borne an "unfair" share of military spending.


Here we go. The pipeline becomes a ploy to weasel out of European support.

But Trump did have a point at the same time even if he didn't mean it.

One of the problems with Trump by 2018 is that few allies continued to trust him after his trade war started.



> If they would have agreed then the infrastructure would have been in place by now to do that.


That depends.
Who is paying for it?
If the US Government.....Trump couldn't build a simple wall along the Mexican border.
If private, well, that simply an unknown aspect until investing is accomplished and plans devised. We are talking about refining and shipping along with more gas wells.
Gas wells....is this a government project or private?

Now you need more ships. Are there enough, enough to be refitted or are new ships needed?
I've read there aren't enough.
How long to build?
Nearest estimation I could find was about 2 1/2 years.

How long to build a refinery?
This one is expected to initially come online in 2025
https://www.hydrocarbons-technology.com/news/tellurian-construction-lng-export-project/



> ( an aside for cjr: from the above link ) Additionally, coronavirus led to a plunge in gas prices in Europe and Asia to record lows of below $2 per million British thermal units (mmBtu) in 2020, while US gas prices dropped to its lowest in 24 years.





> The difference is Trump meant it and would have done whatever it took to make it happen.


He couldn't build a simple wall, why do you think he could have built a complex energy infrastructure?
A guy that recommended sticking UV light bulbs up their fanny? Really ? 

So...Essentially, Trump would need 3 to 4 years to get his project in place, probably another year or two to fix smooth out/ fix problems to fulfill commitments/contracts.

And then Covid-19 happened and the above timeline is , well, irrelevant.
And Europe is in the same situation as today, if lucky at that.



> On the other hand Biden has no intention on keeping that promise.


You don't know that. Actually, neither do I. lol.

But I do find your BS humorous 



> His far left masters not only won't let him but he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to push back against them.


As The Donald would say....you're nasty. ha ha!


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Very simple; even a liberal could understand. How much did Russia spend on their military prior to the huge increase in oil revenue? During the oil glut [when we actually pumped oil] Military spending by Russia declined in 2016, 2017, and 2018. It stabilized somewhat in 2019 and started way up in 2020-2021. This is one reason why the Russians are having so much trouble. You cannot have pilots fly high performance aircraft only an hour or two per month. You are not even safe in the aircraft when you operate it so seldom; let alone fight in the aircraft. I am sure the same thing applies to the rest of the Russian military however aircraft are the only thing I have personal experience operating.





> ......How much did Russia spend on their military prior to the huge increase in oil revenue? During the oil glut [when we actually pumped oil] Military spending by Russia declined in 2016, 2017, and 2018. It stabilized somewhat in 2019 and started way up in 2020-2021. This is one reason why the Russians are having so much trouble


And you don't have a problem with that logic?
If Biden funded the Ukraine incursion, why are the Russians having so much trouble with Ukrainian resistance?
Because Biden funded them?

Please, that might satisfy a liberal ( I'm doubtful ) but truly, it makes no sense.

Please show the transfer of funds or at least some military hardware.



> You cannot have pilots fly high performance aircraft only an hour or two per month. You are not even safe in the aircraft when you operate it so seldom; let alone fight in the aircraft.


Interesting. But what has Biden have to do with the Russian flight schools?
Are you claiming the Russians couldn't afford the jet fuel for training?
Maybe they put too much importance on their tank columns?
How'd that work out?
Surely Biden isn't responsible for that too?


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> He did not even take responsibility for plagiarizing work in law school. You expect him to take responsibility his mistakes now????


lol.
Yeah, Biden got outed. Shame on him.

But you missed the apology 

https://www.upi.com/News_Photos/vie...en-apologizes-for-plagiarizing-in-law-school/


----------



## Johnny b

I'm wondering how many at this forum have plagiarized content.

Ed.....yours have looked very suspicious


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> And you don't have a problem with that logic?
> If Biden funded the Ukraine incursion, why are the Russians having so much trouble with Ukrainian resistance?
> Because Biden funded them?
> 
> Please, that might satisfy a liberal ( I'm doubtful ) but truly, it makes no sense.
> 
> Please show the transfer of funds or at least some military hardware.
> 
> Interesting. But what has Biden have to do with the Russian flight schools?
> Are you claiming the Russians couldn't afford the jet fuel for training?
> Maybe they put too much importance on their tank columns?
> How'd that work out?
> Surely Biden isn't responsible for that too?


It is not just fuel. It is VERY expensive to fly something like a mig-29/31. Even our guys do not really get enough flight time. It is very common for guys flying fighters/attack aircraft go get out of our AF or Navy with 7-800hr flight time. The guys flying transports do get more flight time. Where I worked, we had a program for the military guys where they could take an ATP checkride and get a provisional letter from the FAA allowing them to receive an ATP when they met the hour/experience requirement. Within one year, they would have the experience requirement met SO they could then transition to Capt when the time came.

Point being it is a LOT more than just fuel. Maintenace on high performance jets is often 2~3hr or more per flight hr. AND it goes up as the aircraft ages [and the Russian aircraft are getting pretty long in the tooth]


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> It is not just fuel. It is VERY expensive to fly something like a mig-29/31. Even our guys do not really get enough flight time. It is very common for guys flying fighters/attack aircraft go get out of our AF or Navy with 7-800hr flight time. The guys flying transports do get more flight time. Where I worked, we had a program for the military guys where they could take an ATP checkride and get a provisional letter from the FAA allowing them to receive an ATP when they met the hour/experience requirement. Within one year, they would have the experience requirement met SO they could then transition to Capt when the time came.
> 
> Point being it is a LOT more than just fuel. Maintenace on high performance jets is often 2~3hr per flight hr.





> It is not just fuel. It is VERY expensive to fly something like a mig-29/31.


I imagine it is.
War is even more expensive.



> Point being it is a LOT more than just fuel. Maintenace on high performance jets is often 2~3hr per flight hr.


Yeah, I can understand there is a lot of expensive support involved with the maintenance of high tech military hardware.

But....how is Biden responsible for funding it?
Are there specified accounts directed to specific activities?
How would Biden move funds into those accounts?

You made a claim.


> biden is responsible for most of the problem. Where do you think putin got the money to invest in a war of revanchism? From the large increase in the price of oil that biden handed him.


I see no logic to your claim that Biden is funding Putin's invasion of the Ukraine.
Further, to make your case you'd at least have to show Biden wanted a Ukrainian invasion. You haven't provided anything along those lines. To the contrary, and Biden has been open about his position.
He openly and positively supports the Ukrainians in their struggle to survive.
That is something missing in many of the rightwing extremist politicians and news pundits.


----------



## crjdriver

Biden caused the price of oil to go up by slowing down the US output. That is what provides Russia with more oil revenue ie money. Putin has been using this extra money to invest in his military. I do not know however IF he is anything like our politicians, IF he is, he is incapable of understanding you do not just flip a switch and have a fully functioning Air Force. It takes years to train up to a high level of competency.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Biden caused the price of oil to go up by slowing down the US output. That is what provides Russia with more oil revenue ie money. Putin has been using this extra money to invest in his military. I do not know however IF he is anything like our politicians, IF he is, he is incapable of understanding you do not just flip a switch and have a fully functioning Air Force. It takes years to train up to a high level of competency.





> Biden caused the price of oil to go up by slowing down the US output. That is what provides Russia with more oil revenue ie money.


Let me try a different approach.

Donald J Trump would say in the Russians favor.....that was the 'Art of the Deal'.
Biden did not fund the Russians.
Any profits the Russians took were by their own volition.
You can only argue 'the Russians leveraged the pricing of oil to their own advantage.'

It's an issue of logic.
Biden had no contractual agreement to enrichen the Russians.
And from a business perspective, I doubt Trump would have either. He only endeavored to enrichen himself


----------



## Johnny b

I gotta movie to watch 

Back later or tomorrow


----------



## crjdriver

I guess you still do not understand; energy is a weapon. When a country facilitates a nation state's ability to make war, they [the facilitators] are responsible. Did biden personally write a check to putin? No. He just enabled putin.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I guess you still do not understand; energy is a weapon. When a country facilitates a nation state's ability to make war, they [the facilitators] are responsible. Did biden personally write a check to putin? No. He just enabled putin.


lol....I just caught your post while shutting down my other computer.



> When a country facilitates a nation state's ability to make war, they [the facilitators] are responsible.


Again, you fight against logic.
Intent is an issue.
And I don't think you can make that leap.



> He just enabled putin.



Wow!
Biden intended to enable Putin?

Russia bought 0% of our petroleum export in 2021.
About 8% of our imported oil came from Russia.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Russia is the second largest exporter of petroleum obviously selling most of it not to the US.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/data-how-much-american-oil-comes-russia-n1291369

https://www.iea.org/reports/russian...nergy-markets/oil-market-and-russian-supply-2


> Russia is the world's largest exporter of oil to global markets and the second largest crude oil exporter behind Saudi Arabia.


So how does that work?
The world enabled Putin to start a war?

crj.....that's incredible.
Really incredible.


----------



## Johnny b

Signing off


----------



## Johnny b

Funny how a cup of morning coffee brings back memories 

* Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources *
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...se-u-s-military-support-sources-idUSKBN22C1V4

* Oil surges 24% for best day on record after Trump tells CNBC Saudis, Russia reach agreement *
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/oil...cts-saudi-arabia-russia-feud-to-end-soon.html

*Trump calls on Russia and Saudi Arabia to cut oil production *
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...and-saudi-arabia-to-cut-oil-production-161368

* Oil Nations, Prodded by Trump, Reach Deal to Slash Production *
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/...opec-russia-saudi-arabia-oil-coronavirus.html


> Oil-producing nations on Sunday agreed to the largest production cut ever negotiated, in an unprecedented coordinated effort by Russia, Saudi Arabia and the United States to stabilize oil prices and, indirectly, global financial markets.
> 
> Saudi Arabia and Russia typically take the lead in setting global production goals. But President Trump, facing a re-election campaign, a plunging economy and American oil companies struggling with collapsing prices, took the unusual step of getting involved after the two countries entered a price war a month ago. Mr. Trump had made an agreement a key priority.


And there I was, thinking it was mostly about addressing the influence of the pandemic.

It turned out to be Donald J Trump.....that started funding....errr....emboldening Putin to invade Ukraine 
And used a pandemic to pull it off? Oh my.


----------



## Johnny b

* Was it a gaffe or an escalation? Biden stirs concern with remark that Putin 'cannot remain in power' *
https://news.yahoo.com/gaffe-escalation-biden-stirs-concern-013458740.html



> "For God's sake," Biden said of Russian President Vladimir Putin, "this man cannot remain in power."


That's sure to upset certain elements of the GOP.
Maybe he should have toned it down a bit.

And what was this:


> Lindsey Graham called for Putin's assassination


Vlad....your future doesn't look as good as it did with Trump at the helm.
You should have realized, this is what you get with a Trump deal gone bad.
Biden wants you gone and Graham wants you dead.

Almost funny if it weren't for the suffering and death Putin orchestrated.

Any comments, Ed?


----------



## crjdriver

You still do not get it. Whether we import Russian oil or not, when you curtail production, you make ALL energy more expensive. It really is a simple concept.

I really doubt anyone can make the case for biden doing a good job. You can try however you would be pulling a Don Quixote; tilling at windmills.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> You still do not get it. Whether we import Russian oil or not, when you curtail production, you make ALL energy more expensive. It really is a simple concept.
> 
> I really doubt anyone can make the case for biden doing a good job. You can try however you would be pulling a Don Quixote; tilling at windmills.


You are ignoring the actual events as they played out, crj.

Trump was involved himself in a price war by demanding a reduction in production.
And Biden was not President before or during that reduction.
The price war actually explains away most of your argument.



> I really doubt anyone can make the case for biden doing a good job. You can try however you would be pulling a Don Quixote; tilling at windmills.



That is funny, crj.
Biden has 3 years left on his job and already complaints are out he hasn't corrected the mess Trump made.
Time will tell.
Personally, I don't think he can accomplish much considering how much there is to correct/repair and the reality that he probably won't be the next President.
That future is simply too uncertain to call, imo.



> You can try however you would be pulling a Don Quixote; tilling at windmills.


Not really. All I need to do is follow current events to see if/how much.. he is accomplishing.
It was the same with Trump.

Will Biden rise 'to the occasion'?
Only results will define or prove one way or the other.
Trump failed. And he's still active at promoting it. And there are those still buying it.

Think about it. You're an intelligent fellow.
With out a 'Trump', there wouldn't have been a President Biden. Most likely not even a Democrat President.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Think about it. You're an intelligent fellow.
> With out a 'Trump', there wouldn't have been a President Biden. Most likely not even a Democrat President.


Think about it. If obama/binden had not screwed up so badly, hillary would have been president. Hey maybe the dems can dust her off and run her in 2024. 
Yeah, trump screwed up; low gas prices, low inflation, semi secure boarders, etc, etc.

Your rose colored glasses are not thick enough to make biden look good


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Think about it. If obama/binden had not screwed up so badly, hillary would have been president. Hey maybe the dems can dust her off and run her in 2024.
> Yeah, trump screwed up; low gas prices, low inflation, semi secure boarders, etc, etc.
> 
> Your rose colored glasses are not thick enough to make biden look good


I don't need to think about that past.
I didn't vote for Obama or H Clinton.



> Your rose colored glasses are not thick enough to make biden look good



You going to do an 'Ed'? 



> Yeah, trump screwed up; low gas prices, low inflation, semi secure boarders, etc, etc.


Do we have to go there? Really?
Do you guys have to be endlessly reminded Trump's administration didn't end well?
Do you think repetition is even debate?
It's only a time waster as a diversion and an attempt to stall debate.
Think, crj......when was the last time a President suffered 2 impeachments followed up with sedition and attempts of insurrection? Much of which occurred during a pandemic he handled poorly( and that's being kind).
Add in some accusation of rape, some misogynistic comments, investigations of tax fraud and the latest revelation, potential Supreme Court tampering.

Sincerely, I do NOT think Biden can match that


----------



## Johnny b

BTW crj, you commented earlier that oil production ceased under Biden.

Do you have any linkage to that effect?
It doesn't seem to show up in any of the data or charts I've looked at.


----------



## Johnny b

I suspect many Dixiecrat Republicans are concerned about how this might develop:

* Why the 14th Amendment has surfaced in midterms *
Even more interesting is how this AP article is reprinted at a Fox News link.

First the long AP version:
https://news.yahoo.com/ap-explains-why-14th-amendment-204016181.html

now the 'abridged' AP version at the Fox site:
https://www.fox17online.com/news/national-politics/why-the-14th-amendment-has-surfaced-in-midterms

No wonder so many Fox News devotees seem confused.

Here's the Fox version in a pdf:
The Yahoo version was too large to post.
You'll need to click on the link I provided.

That's one hell of a difference, imo.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> BTW crj, you commented earlier that oil production ceased under Biden.


Wrong again. What I said was energy production diminished. 
I doubt anyone can convince you how bad a job biden is doing. If you want to think he is doing great, of course that is your right. I will stick to facts; ie high fuel prices, inflation out of sight, completely screwed up pull out from Afghanistan, the list just keeps going, and going.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Wrong again. What I said was energy production diminished.
> I doubt anyone can convince you how bad a job biden is doing. If you want to think he is doing great, of course that is your right. I will stick to facts; ie high fuel prices, inflation out of sight, completely screwed up pull out from Afghanistan, the list just keeps going, and going.


You did give a distinct impression that there was a time oil production stopped.
True, you didn't post any time frame.
It's only a small point.
Everyone knows extraction has never been stopped nationwide.

But you did post this as if it had meaning:

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9887610


> During the oil glut [when we actually pumped oil]


 I do read what you guys post.



> I will stick to facts


Cherry picked while often ignoring the relevance of events, you mean.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden keeps pushing the Green New Deal whose goal is to end the use of fossil fuels. Through regulation he has blocked or used dissentives to reduce the production of fossil fuels. He has succeeded in doing that. He says that he can't do anything about the price of gas. What he really means is that he doesn't want to do anything about the price of gas except make its price go higher.

*United States Crude Oil Production*










United States Crude Oil Production
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/crude-oil-production


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> .......................
> I doubt anyone can convince you how bad a job biden is doing. ......................


So far, you haven't done a good job at the 'convincing'.
You even used a term I suspect many reading this thread didn't realize the context when addressing why Russia invaded Ukraine.
It seemed quite sympathetic to the Russian cause.
Would you like me to dig back and show you?
It's not commonly used.

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9887588


> Where do you think putin got the money to invest in a war of revanchism?


revanchism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism

Thank you. Now I know you a lot better


----------



## crjdriver

Maybe I should change the thread title to the biden disaster 😱😱😱
At least Jimmy is happy.


----------



## crjdriver

revanchism was coined by the French when they tried to reclaim territory lost to Germany in the Franco-Prussian war.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .............................
> 
> *United States Crude Oil Production*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United States Crude Oil Production
> https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/crude-oil-production


Thank you for posting that.
The decline in production occurred during the end of the Trump administration and the graph does show an increase in production since that bottom and it coincided with Biden taking office.
But I don't credit Biden for it. It's following an economic recovery from the pandemic.

Of course, you probably didn't realize that when you posted it


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Maybe I should change the thread title to the biden disaster 😱😱😱
> At least Jimmy is happy.


lol!
If it makes you happy it makes everyone happy.


----------



## MisterEd51

Early in his thread I invited anyone to list Biden's accomplishments. I am still waiting. Even Biden in his State of the Union speech couldn't list any. Of course Biden has had accomplishments. The problem is that they were mostly political and did more harm to our country than not.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> revanchism was coined by the French when they tried to reclaim territory lost to Germany in the Franco-Prussian war.


And you used it in a modern context.

Thank you 

Like I posted, I now know you better


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Early in his thread I invited anyone to list Biden's accomplishments. I am still waiting. Even Biden in his State of the Union speech couldn't list any. Of course Biden has had accomplishments. The problem is that they were mostly political and did more harm to our country than not.


Like I posted, Ed.
I'm not here for that purpose.
I'm here for debate which you avoid. 

And you did not start this thread with the intent to debate.
Apparently just whine and repeat, whine and repeat.

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9873604


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


And that silly whiny opening post was addressed long ago


----------



## Johnny b

I know Ed a lot better Too.....LOL!


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Maybe I should change the thread title to the biden disaster 😱😱😱
> At least Jimmy is happy.


If it makes you happy, I won't object


----------



## crjdriver

MisterEd51 said:


> Early in his thread I invited anyone to list Biden's accomplishments. I am still waiting. Even Biden in his State of the Union speech couldn't list any. Of course Biden has had accomplishments. The problem is that they were mostly political and did more harm to our country than not.


Come on man.
In just one year biden has managed to surpass what jimmy carter did in four years. I think that is quite an accomplishment.
Just think what he will be able to screwup in the next 3 yr 

The problem is that there is no Pres. Reagan to fix things.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Come on man.
> In just one year biden has managed to surpass what jimmy carter did in four years. I think that is quite an accomplishment.
> Just think what he will be able to screwup in the next 3 yr
> 
> The problem is that there is no Pres. Reagan to fix things.


Indeed there is no 'Reagan' here to fix the problems Trump left behind. Neither the one's Trump created or the one's he sidestepped.

The problem with this thread is the thread starter began an argument that didn't work out, so he changed his mind to make it a debate/challenge of comparisons.
If you follow his logic from the beginning you'll notice the trouble he ran into, being unable to counter comparisons.
And if you've noticed lately, he's now demanding only good things can be posted about Biden. ( Odd, he even breaks his own rules )

Sadly for him, I've been working under the second set of guidelines that were accepted long ago.
I only need to present a President that has done worse than Biden.
It's a pretty easy challenge, imo. Biden has only been President for a little over a year and there's sure to be many issues cropping up. It's just that they haven't yet happened.

But, as you seem to like, this thread is ( or should be ) only about facts.
I appreciate your attempt to go back in history for comparisons, but you really don't need to look any further than Trump.
Even only 2 impeachments with an ongoing investigation into sedition and insurrection with new allegations of tampering with the Supreme Court ......truly win him the distinction of being a worse President than Biden, and probably most of those since Washington.

Reality.....this thread was solved long ago 

BTW, thank you for the debate. It's been a long time since I've seen any in this thread.


----------



## crjdriver

Impeachment is a political endeavor. Given that charges originate in the House [with the House being dem when trump was impeached]
What do you think is going to happen when the dems lose the House in Nov??? Biden will be impeached however the process will be dragged out for the next two years [since if they hurried, we would end up with the cackling moron] This will basically impede biden from doing any more damage. 
Whether he [biden] is removed from office depends on if the dems lose the Senate as well. Biden would then become the only president to be removed from office.

With a very thin majority in the House at the current time AND the fact that the President's party almost always loses seats in the House in the off-year election, the above is just about a forgone conclusion.

The next few months should be interesting to say the least.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Impeachment is a political endeavor. Given that charges originate in the House [with the House being dem when trump was impeached]
> What do you think is going to happen when the dems lose the House in Nov??? Biden will be impeached however the process will be dragged out for the next two years [since if they hurried, we would end up with the cackling moron] This will basically impede biden from doing any more damage.
> Whether he [biden] is removed from office depends on if the dems lose the Senate as well. Biden would then become the only president to be removed from office.
> 
> With a very thin majority in the House at the current time AND the fact that the President's party almost always loses seats in the House in the off-year election, the above is just about a forgone conclusion.
> 
> The next few months should be interesting to say the least.





> Impeachment is a political endeavor. Given that charges originate in the House [with the House being dem when trump was impeached]


Partially, maybe. Definitely a type of judicial process. Just done by politicians 



> What do you think is going to happen when .....


That's a very interesting thought.
But, this thread isn't about speculative opinions about the future.
It's about 'performance'.
Hey....I didn't ( edited a correction ) start this thread. IMO it's a mess.
Maybe you could start one that reflects more insight into political consequences?
That could be fun 
But, this one is about performance, is it not?

I can show a President that's worse than Biden.
And I backed that up long ago and repeated it recently in terms all should be able to understand and fact check.



> Whether he [biden] is removed from office depends on if the dems lose the Senate as well. Biden would then become the only president to be removed from office.


That could happen. But it hasn't happened as of now.
And this thread isn't about wishes or possible futures.
I don't have to prove Biden does any thing well.....in this debate thread. Only point out a worse President.

So far, Trump gets the nod as being a worse President. easy peasy.



> With a very thin majority in the House at the current time AND the fact that the President's party almost always loses seats in the House in the off-year election, the above is just about a forgone conclusion.
> 
> The next few months should be interesting to say the least.


Yeah...but in this thread, possibilities and chance are irrelevant in making a choice.
Hey, Ed wrote the premise ( several versions actually  ) for this thread, don't blame me lol!

This thread seems to be solved.

Of course, we could create a challenge to see who was worse than Trump, but that's really needing a new thread. I don't think Ed would agree to it.


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> Impeachment is a political endeavor. Given that charges originate in the House [with the House being dem when trump was impeached]
> What do you think is going to happen when the dems lose the House in Nov??? Biden will be impeached however the process will be dragged out for the next two years [since if they hurried, we would end up with the cackling moron] This will basically impede biden from doing any more damage.
> Whether he [biden] is removed from office depends on if the dems lose the Senate as well. Biden would then become the only president to be removed from office.
> 
> With a very thin majority in the House at the current time AND the fact that the President's party almost always loses seats in the House in the off-year election, the above is just about a forgone conclusion.
> 
> The next few months should be interesting to say the least.


Trump only got impeached because the Democrats conspired with the Justice Department and the mainstream media to convince a lot of people that Trump conspired with the Russians and tried to extort the Ukrainian government. This was all based on lies and the Democrats shamelessly knew it. The Democrats never accepted the results of th4 2016 election and tried their best to force Trump out of office.

On the other hand, Biden will never be impeached because the same people that conspired against Trump will mostly ignore what Biden does. They have a love-hate relationship with Biden. They love him because he is not Trump. They hate him because he is incompetent. Also, Biden has an Ace up his sleeve. If he was impeached and removed from office then Vice-President Harris would become President. Biden knows that Harris is more incompetent and more disliked than he is.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Early in his thread I invited anyone to list Biden's accomplishments. I am still waiting. Even Biden in his State of the Union speech couldn't list any. Of course Biden has had accomplishments. The problem is that they were mostly political and did more harm to our country than not.


Just pointing out how the premise of this thread changes.
If at first you don't succeed.....change the rules


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Trump only got impeached because the Democrats conspired with the Justice Department and the mainstream media to convince a lot of people that Trump conspired with the Russians and tried to extort the Ukrainian government. This was all based on lies and the Democrats shamelessly knew it. The Democrats never accepted the results of th4 2016 election and tried their best to force Trump out of office.
> 
> On the other hand, Biden will never be impeached because the same people that conspired against Trump will mostly ignore what Biden does. They have a love-hate relationship with Biden. They love him because he is not Trump. They hate him because he is incompetent. Also, Biden has an Ace up his sleeve. If he was impeached and removed from office then Vice-President Harris would become President. Biden knows that Harris is more incompetent and more disliked than he is.





> Trump only got impeached .....


He got impeached twice.

And the whining is off an running:


> The Democrats never accepted the results of th4 2016 election and tried their best to force Trump out of office.





> On the other hand, Biden will never be impeached


.....
Are you willing to wait until he does something nefarious? (  )



> They have a love-hate relationship with Biden. They love him because he is not Trump. They hate him because he is incompetent.


Who are these 'They' people and how do you know what they think?



> If he was impeached and removed from office then Vice-President Harris would become President. Biden knows that Harris is more incompetent and more disliked than he is.


See what I mean crj?
This is why I like debating with you even though we disagree.
A challenge. You provide a challenge of intellect.

Ed, you drone.


----------



## Bastiat

MisterEd51 said:


> Early in his thread I invited anyone to list Biden's accomplishments.


He beat Trump. Enough said enough accomplished. I'm sure the population of Ukraine is very happy about that as well.


----------



## Johnny b

Too easy, doesn't count.

Why you might ask.......just because.


----------



## Johnny b

Bastiat said:


> He beat Trump. Enough said enough accomplished. I'm sure the population of Ukraine is very happy about that as well.


I've been wondering.
What's your opinion on MT Greene vs the 14th Amendment?
Think she'll be removed from the ballot?


----------



## MisterEd51

Bastiat said:


> He beat Trump. Enough said enough accomplished. I'm sure the population of Ukraine is very happy about that as well.


Not as happy as they could have been. If Biden had projected strength like Trump did Putin would never have invaded Ukraine in the first place.

The difference between you and me is that you accept that the fact that the Democrats forced Trump from office by lying and doing whatever it took to do so. I was a Democrat for 40 years but could never support or vote for another Democrat. Apparently, I have a conscience and you don't.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Not as happy as they could have been. If Biden had projected strength like Trump did Putin would never have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
> 
> The difference between you and me is that you accept that the fact that the Democrats forced Trump from office by lying and doing whatever it took to do so. I was a Democrat for 40 years but could never support or vote for another Democrat. Apparently, I have a conscience and you don't.


Vociferous rhetoric 

You were a Democrat for 40 years. Enough said


----------



## crjdriver

There really is not all that much difference between the dems and the republicans of today [rhetoric put aside] Both spend money we do not have and just print more. BTW I am an independent so I can be critical of both 
It is interesting to note that in the last 50~60yr, the parties have [somewhat] switched places. 
Before LBJs great society program of 64~65, the dems were NEVER the friend of minorities. The great society succeeded in buying the minority vote for the dem party.
You really do have to hand it to politicians; they figured out how to buy votes with your money rather than their money. 
It was the repubs that were the friends [somewhat] of blacks, hispanics, etc. Remember the dems were the proponents of the jim crow laws restricting voting. Voting was much more open in the repub north than the dem south.

Contrast that with today and you can see how much the parties have changed in the last 60yr.


----------



## Johnny b

And both parties suffer from competing extreme positions from within, at the same time.


----------



## MisterEd51

I learned a long time ago. Most politicians will play to the audience and tell them what they want to hear. Afterwords, they will do what they want even if it contradicts what they said yesterday. Most people only judge a politician either by what they hear them say or what they read about them. I suspect, very few people actually follow up and verify what the President does or has done is the same as what he said previously.

Biden just promised the Europeans LNG. I was called out when I said didn't believe it. For two years now Biden has said his goal is to end the fossil fuel industry. I still stand by what I said until Biden proves me wrong. Like I said previously, the best way to judge Biden is to question everything he says until he proves otherwise. So far he has shown he is not to be trusted.

I didn't always believe or trust everything that Trump said despite what some people here may believe. There is one thing that Trump had going for him that Biden doesn't. Trump was much more likely to mean what he said than Biden is. Unlike, Biden, Trump tried a lot harder to follow up and do what he said he wanted to do.

It is strange when you watch the news. No matter what Biden says or does there is little or no followup when he says one thing and does another. There is even revisionist history going on. When Biden is called out there is: "he didn't say that" or " he didn't mean that", and sometime "what he really meant to says was".

Recently, Biden was asked why he had said previously that the purpose of the Russian sanctions was to prevent them from invading Ukraine. He said he never said that. I and a lot of other people remember differently.

Biden when he is not reading the teleprompter is constantly making gaffs. His staff always has to go behind him to clean up the mess he made.

Over the weekend with the whole world paying attention he said several things that even uncontradicted what his whole staff was saying. How can this be cleaned up?

With all the meandering speeches, contradictory things said, and sometimes even clueless comments the rest of the world must either be shaking their head in disgust or fear that the once most powerful country in the world is being led by someone that is at best not up to the job.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I learned a long time ago. Most politicians will play to the audience and tell them what they want to hear. Afterwords, they will do what they want even if it contradicts what they said yesterday. Most people only judge a politician either by what they hear them say or what they read about them. I suspect, very few people actually follow up and verify what the President does or has done is the same as what he said previously.
> 
> Biden just promised the Europeans LNG. I was called out when I said didn't believe it. For two years now Biden has said his goal is to end the fossil fuel industry. I still stand by what I said until Biden proves me wrong. Like I said previously, the best way to judge Biden is to question everything he says until he proves otherwise. So far he has shown he is not to be trusted.
> 
> I didn't always believe or trust everything that Trump said despite what some people here may believe. There is one thing that Trump had going for him that Biden doesn't. Trump was much more likely to mean what he said than Biden is. Unlike, Biden, Trump tried a lot harder to follow up and do what he said he wanted to do.
> 
> It is strange when you watch the news. No matter what Biden says or does there is little or no followup when he says one thing and does another. There is even revisionist history going on. When Biden is called out there is: "he didn't say that" or " he didn't mean that", and sometime "what he really meant to says was".
> 
> Recently, Biden was asked why he had said previously that the purpose of the Russian sanctions was to prevent them from invading Ukraine. He said he never said that. I and a lot of other people remember differently.
> 
> Biden when he is not reading the teleprompter is constantly making gaffs. His staff always has to go behind him to clean up the mess he made.
> 
> Over the weekend with the whole world paying attention he said several things that even uncontradicted what his whole staff was saying. How can this be cleaned up?
> 
> With all the meandering speeches, contradictory things said, and sometimes even clueless comments the rest of the world must either be shaking their head in disgust or fear that the once most powerful country in the world is being led by someone that is at best not up to the job.





> I learned a long time ago. Most politicians will play to the audience and tell them what they want to hear.


Apparently you forgot that lesson when Trump was initially stumping for the GOP nomination first time around.
His business was developing real estate and led a life of committing deals that frequently required intervention or support by his mafia drug lawyer....Roy Cohn.
Check out his history sometime. And Trump's reliance on him.
Trump was NEVER a good business man but a corrupt one none the less.
And he drew influence by learning to tell people what they wanted to hear.
The Trump of today is the same package.
Playing incredible odds at the risk of some one else's security.



> I suspect, very few people actually follow up and verify what the President does or has done is the same as what he said previously.


Apparently you've never bothered to check the backgrounds of candidates before they became politicians.



> Biden just promised the Europeans LNG. I was called out when I said didn't believe it.


And i told you he probably couldn't, but it's a good idea to support an ally in distress.
All you do is whine, even when I agree 



> For two years now Biden has said his goal is to end the fossil fuel industry.


So you posted a graph you didn't understand and looked silly because you didn't know what it meant.



> Like I said previously, the best way to judge Biden is to question everything he says until he proves otherwise.


So what are you doing here, ranting off nonsense for?
Shouldn't you be 'out there' somewhere interviewing Biden?
You're certainly not going to get access to him here.



> So far he has shown he is not to be trusted.



And yet you blindly defend Trump. Who may not be allowed on a ballot if Greene gets whacked by the 14th Amendment. For sedition and insurrection.( edit: upon expert advice, Greene probably won't be excluded )
( But ) You ( do ) seem to have odd values there, Ed.



> There is one thing that Trump had going for him that Biden doesn't. Trump was much more likely to mean what he said than Biden is.


You do know I laughed at that?
It all depends when you listen to Trump. He has backpedaled, contradicted and denied through out his Presidency.
And even video taped doing it!!!!

LOL!



> Recently, Biden was asked why he had said previously that the purpose of the Russian sanctions was to prevent them from invading Ukraine. He said he never said that. I and a lot of other people remember differently.


Do you have linkage to him speaking such a claim?
If you don't respond, which you seldom do, it's the same as not having one.



> Biden when he is not reading the teleprompter is constantly making gaffs.


Well....that's just covfefe!





> Over the weekend with the whole world paying attention he said several things that even uncontradicted what his whole staff was saying. How can this be cleaned up?


Please tell us what you are complaining about.



> With all the meandering speeches, contradictory things said, and sometimes even clueless comments the rest of the world must either be shaking their head in disgust or fear that the once most powerful country in the world is being led by someone that is at best not up to the job.


Have you ever thought, just maybe, the problem is on your side?
Sincerely, you don't seem to make a lot of sense.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .......................
> 
> Recently, Biden was asked why he had said previously that the purpose of the Russian sanctions was to prevent them from invading Ukraine. He said he never said that. I and a lot of other people remember differently.
> .................


Looks like Ed has left the room.

So I'm calling BS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-personal-sanctions-if-russia-invades-ukraine

followed up with:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/biden-russia-ukraine-sanctions.html


----------



## Johnny b

Do you really think you can post a link that shows Biden denying the history and role he played, that I just presented above?

I'll wait on you Ed.

To other members, I would appreciate a pause till this is cleared up.
So Ed doesn't get distracted (  )

But if you do have such a link, go ahead and post it.


----------



## Bastiat

Johnny b said:


> I've been wondering.
> What's your opinion on MT Greene vs the 14th Amendment?
> Think she'll be removed from the ballot?


I think you need to prove she participated in the insurrection before she could be removed from a ballot. Encouraging it isn't enough in my opinion. Obviously, part of the purpose of the 14th Amendment was to prevent Confederate soldiers/politicians etc from running for federal office. They engaged in the war so easily proven. Not so much with Greene. The people who elected her in her district get what they deserve........nothing.

Sorry for the interruption but you asked.


----------



## Johnny b

Bastiat said:


> I think you need to prove she participated in the insurrection before she could be removed from a ballot. Encouraging it isn't enough in my opinion. Obviously, part of the purpose of the 14th Amendment was to prevent Confederate soldiers/politicians etc from running for federal office. They engaged in the war so easily proven. Not so much with Greene. The people who elected her in her district get what they deserve........nothing.
> 
> Sorry for the interruption but you asked.


That's ok.

It's easier to ask an expert than simply prove one's self an idiot 

Thanks.


----------



## MisterEd51

Bastiat said:


> I think you need to prove she participated in the insurrection before she could be removed from a ballot. Encouraging it isn't enough in my opinion. Obviously, part of the purpose of the 14th Amendment was to prevent Confederate soldiers/politicians etc from running for federal office. They engaged in the war so easily proven. Not so much with Greene. The people who elected her in her district get what they deserve........nothing.
> 
> Sorry for the interruption but you asked.


To add to the argument...As far as I know nobody has been formally charged with participating in an insurrection. 725 people have been charged with various crimes and that is not one of them. If insurrection was proven then that would have led to charges of sedition or treason. Since that hasn't happened then people need to be careful what words they use.

The term insurrection started as a Democrat talking point for the event that happened on January 6, 2021. Unfortunately, the term has been used so much that it has been accepted by most people now.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> To add to the argument...As far as I know nobody has been formally charged with participating in an insurrection. 725 people have been charged with various crimes and that is not one of them. If insurrection was proven then that would have led to charges of sedition or treason. Since that hasn't happened then people need to be careful what words they use.
> 
> The term insurrection started as a Democrat talking point for the event that happened on January 6, 2021. Unfortunately, the term has been used so much that it has been accepted by most people now.


That's not what Bastiat nor I addressed.

But it seems it's your way out for ignoring a challenge.
Nice try though.

Let's try it again.
You posted:


> Recently, Biden was asked why he had said previously that the purpose of the Russian sanctions was to prevent them from invading Ukraine. He said he never said that.


Post linkage or source that shows Biden claiming he didn't threaten sanctions as a means to persuade the Russians from invading Ukraine.


----------



## crjdriver

As a side note, there was an article in today's Wall Street Journal [opinion section] referencing biden and the 25th amendment. I cannot link to it since it is proprietary content. 
In short it said to just live with biden until the election. It is almost a foregone conclusion that the dems will lose the House in Nov leaving biden pretty much a lame duck. As such he can do little damage. The alternative would be cackles [actually said cackles] and NO one would want her as president.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> ..............
> In short it said to just live with biden until the election. It is almost a foregone conclusion that the dems will lose the House in Nov leaving biden pretty much a lame duck.......
> 
> ......


That's a possibility.

But the wild card is what the Jan 6th investigations produce, if anything. 
It's 'juicy' in the press right now with questions and speculation. And it's focused on the Trump machine.

So long as Trump and his associates are gone from the political scene, I can live with reasonable politicians from either party.

'Reasonable' LOL!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> To add to the argument...As far as I know nobody has been formally charged with participating in an insurrection. 725 people have been charged with various crimes and that is not one of them. If insurrection was proven then that would have led to charges of sedition or treason. Since that hasn't happened then people need to be careful what words they use.
> 
> The term insurrection started as a Democrat talking point for the event that happened on January 6, 2021. Unfortunately, the term has been used so much that it has been accepted by most people now.


It's pretty obvious, Ed, you're only here to spew, which isn't so bad, it's just you tend to get things wrong often and sometimes it looks like you make up stuff.

It's obvious you aren't going to backup your claims when challenged, but I'll be watching to help you out 



> To add to the argument.....


That was just a dodge. No relevance.



> As far as I know nobody has been formally charged with participating in an insurrection.


What's your point?
The investigation into the leaders isn't over.
It will likely play out similar to Trump's other impeachments.
Grill the minions for information, assemble and correlate with other found facts and derive charges.



> If insurrection was proven then that would have led to charges of sedition or treason.


Not necessarily 
Promise those culpable minions with lesser charges and they tend to spill their guts 

The leaders tend to keep silent, they have the most to gain.
Those culpable minions tend to squeal because, for them there's little to gain if silent, but everything to lose.

edit: That's how information can be discovered and accumulated.

You've been believing a fallacy 
( or just making it up )



> Since that hasn't happened then people need to be careful what words they use.


The problem you have with that implied threat is most of America has seen and heard elements of that insurrection, on TV, on the Internet ( videos ) and newspapers, with lots of photos and images.
If a jury decision was in the process ( wouldn't happen, just an analogy ) , they'd have a hard time finding an impartial juror.
That's how obvious the situation was and sophistry won't change it.



> Unfortunately, the term has been used so much that it has been accepted by most people now.


Too many people saw how that day played out, Ed.
I suspect the date January 6, 2021 will be written into history books for hundreds of years about Trump and his supporters attempting an insurrection that failed. Even if he isn't charged.
Why? We saw it happen.


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> As a side note, there was an article in today's Wall Street Journal [opinion section] referencing biden and the 25th amendment. I cannot link to it since it is proprietary content.
> In short it said to just live with biden until the election. It is almost a foregone conclusion that the dems will lose the House in Nov leaving biden pretty much a lame duck. As such he can do little damage. The alternative would be cackles [actually said cackles] and NO one would want her as president.


I remember hearing somebody on TV claim that Biden has been sabotaging Harris by giving her no-win assignments. An example is solving the southern migration problem. Harris failing her assignments plus her poisonous personality would guarantee that nobody would want her to take over as President. Of course that probably also kills her chances in 2024 of running for President assuming Biden does not seek a second term.

Taking control of the House is not enough. The Republicans also need to take the Senate so they can control the agenda there also. It would be even better if the Republicans have 60 votes in the Senate. That way they could force cloture and avoid a filibuster by the Democrats. Of course, Biden could always veto any bill but that's another matter.

I don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal but I can see the headlines. One that caught my attention was this.


> Biden's Budget Would Reshape His International Tax Plan
> 
> The proposed 2023 budget changes a key piece in President Biden's international tax plan, moving away from a prior, harsher proposal and toward an evolving international standard for enforcing the global minimum-tax agreement.


Is this as bad as it sounds?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .
> 
> Is this as bad as it sounds?


Pretty much


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .....................
> 
> I don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal but I can see the headlines. One that caught my attention was this.
> 
> Is this as bad as it sounds?


There are other sources and issues that should scare you.
They've even been discussed in this forum.

Example:
You should be reading up on the billionaire tax which has the concept of essentially seizing assets based on appreciating values ( taxation of unrealized gains ) built into it and how it affects investing. And then there's the issue the concept is said to have with the 16th Amendment.

Will it be included? I doubt it.

Closing off foreign corporate tax havens could bring more jobs back if done right.

Still never heard of MMT?
I suggest you read up on it. 
IMO, it has the ability to be a destroyer of economic infrastructures.
Really scary stuff.
I can give you linkage if you're interested.

Sadly, Trump left the US in such a state of disrepair, economically, socially and issues with a foreign enemy nation that supported his rise to power, that I suspect just framing a budget will be near impossible for decades. Time will tell.

What surprises me the most, if the Democrat budgets are so destructive, why aren't the US legislators that support Putin, backing them? ( rhetorical of course  ) Just not destructive enough for their needs?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> NOTICE I'm not going to respond to any posts that are made by people that are clueless. These posts belong in another thread. In other words don't bother posting here unless you want to make an intelligent contribution.


I started re-reading this thread after seeing the verified claims against Hunter Biden.
He's obviously in trouble and his father has a lot of explaining to do about his own involvement in hunter's activities, and I don't mean 'explain it away'. Define his presence.

But I can still make the case that a worse President than Biden exists and it's still Donald Trump. 
Even if Joe turned out to be guilty along with his son 
( That's mostly because of the sedition and insurrection that was viewed on January 6th, 2021. And his initial denial of a pandemic. And torture as a means to discourage illegal immigration. and....well the list is long. )
You could argue Joe hasn't had enough time to be worse, but if he gets canned before his term ends, we'll never know and you'll never be able to prove Joe was worse. 
Gone, yes....worse, no.
Decisions, decisions.

In other matters.
Have you looked at the list of Succession?
It's not friendly to your cause, at this time.
If you guys get rid of Joe...and then Kamala..... you are in for pain city and I wouldn't want to go there either. Pelosi.
But it would make good theater.

Maybe you ought to read up on MMT. If a Pelosi ever takes the Oval Office, you're going to need better arguments other than *" I'm not going to respond.... "* 

Donald Trump is even worse than a 'crooked Joe'.

And that's how bad things have gotten in the USofA.


----------



## crjdriver

I agree with not wanting pelosi. A number of years ago, I flew her from KMSY to KSLC. I was NOT impressed. The one dem that I flew that did impress me was feinstein. While I did not agree with her politics, as least she was intelligent and could hold a conversation; not so with pelosi. Talking to pelosi was like talking to a box of rocks.
Pelosi does dress well and always wears heels [she is quite short, my estimate is 5'1" at best]


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> To add to the argument...As far as I know *nobody has been formally charged with participating in an insurrection. *725 people have been charged with various crimes and that is not one of them. If insurrection was proven then that would have led to charges of sedition or treason. Since that hasn't happened then people need to be careful what words they use.
> 
> The term insurrection started as a Democrat talking point for the event that happened on January 6, 2021. Unfortunately, the term has been used so much that it has been accepted by most people now.


Does "seditious Conspiracy" count??

_"The criminal charges against rioters so far have ranged from misdemeanors to obstructing Congress in its duty to certify the Electoral College result. The Justice Department has also lodged conspiracy charges against leaders of two of the extremist groups who figured prominently in the Capitol attack, the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys.

Enrique Tarrio, the former leader of the Proud Boys, was charged this month with conspiring with other top lieutenants of the far-right nationalist group to disrupt the certification of the election.

In January, prosecutors charged Stewart Rhodes, the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers militia, with seditious conspiracy for what the government has described as a plot to violently disrupt the work of Congress."_


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Does "seditious Conspiracy" count??
> ...............


With Ed, it's all about sophistry.
In his world, of course it doesn't count.


----------



## Johnny b

Trump idolizes Putin, reconsiders and denies he made unwarranted statements.
Biden has been consistent. There are absolutely no mentions of praise.

A refresher of real conservative thought and position.
From a real conservative.
A man even considered a hero that stood strong against torture as a prisoner.
A warrior, a politician, a man of courage and conviction.
A man I voted for.
May he rest in peace.
A man also hated by Donald J Trump.

John McCain's views on Putin and the Ukraine, with no uncertainty.
As told by Mark Salter the former chief of staff to Senator John McCain:

* What John McCain Would Say About Putin and Ukraine *
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/john-mccain-putin-ukraine/621265/

I suggest everyone following this thread read it.
And note, I don't post this to suggest Biden is in any way a conservative, but to show that his position is definitely not that of a socialist.
Rather, more of a pragmatist. A Liberal one.

In being a conservative, that is exactly what Mr. McCain was projecting. Pragmatism.
The pragmatism of defending a free society. Ours and the Ukraine's....Reasons.....and that much of this thread is pure BS.

Yeah, Joe's got problems, makes mistakes and he's no John McCain, but he is better than a forked tongued 'Donald Trump'.

And I do well remember the challenge presented in the early pages of this thread.
The answer keeps coming out the same.
How many times does his thread need to be solved?


----------



## crjdriver

The man how taught me to fly was a POW who was in the hanoi hilton with mccain. He did not think much of him. I would be the very last person to judge a person like mccain however that was his opinion.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> The man how taught me to fly was a POW who was in the hanoi hilton with mccain. He did not think much of him. I would be the very last person to judge a person like mccain however that was his opinion.


Everyone has opinions and not everyone has the same.

There are a lot of critical opinions about The Donald. Of people close to him. Many seem of the same nature. And his niece?...well.....wowsers. lol.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Everyone has opinions and not everyone has the same.
> 
> There are a lot of critical opinions about The Donald. Of people close to him. Many seem of the same nature. And his niece?...well.....wowsers. lol.


And there are no critical opinions of biden??? With biden releasing oil from the strategic reserve it should have a short term effect on price however I just checked and there are only approx 560million barrels in the spr and only about half of that is "Sweet" crude. 
Looks to me like biden is trying to make up for his incredibly bad decision to curtail oil production.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> And there are no critical opinions of biden??? With biden releasing oil from the strategic reserve it should have a short term effect on price however I just checked and there are only approx 560million barrels in the spr and only about half of that is "Sweet" crude.
> Looks to me like biden is trying to make up for his incredibly bad decision to curtail oil production.


There are opinions about Biden posted all over this thread 

And about your oil assessment....I've already responded to an earlier release and posted I agree it's only a short term solution.

And it's not the worst inflation being seen.
Even renters are troubled with it.
I just read a headline on that this morning.

There is a war going on. But......Biden didn't start it.
And there are going to be tougher times ahead. That credit goes to Putin, also.


----------



## crjdriver

Yeah, it is sweet crude that is used to refine gasoline [generally] 


> There is a war going on. But......Biden didn't start it.


True however the price of gasoline has been going up since biden took office. That increase had nothing to do with putin.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Yeah, it is sweet crude that is used to refine gasoline [generally]
> 
> True however the price of gasoline has been going up since biden took office. That increase had nothing to do with putin.


And I proved to you that event was initiated by Donald Trump negotiating the end of a price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. Ed even mistakenly posted a graph that complimented the act showing oil production actually has increased since that price war and during Biden's administration. 
There is still plenty of oil. No shortages. You just don't like the market price.
Well, reality, no one does. It's only gluts and price wars that make consumers 'happy'.
And that ends with a war.

Are you reading my posts?

I gave 4 reputable sources for that Russian/Saudi gas war. And Trump's negotiations that reduced oil production, drastically. Thank you Ed, for the graph.


----------



## crjdriver

You are missing the point. The voters have seen the price of fuel [and basically everything else] go up when biden took office. Who do you think is going to get the blame come Nov?
The average US voter votes his/her wallet and that wallet has taken a BIG hit since biden became president. Whether that is correct or not, that is what is going to happen in Nov.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> You are missing the point. The voters have seen the price of fuel [and basically everything else] go up when biden took office. Who do you think is going to get the blame come Nov?
> The average US voter votes his/her wallet and that wallet has taken a BIG hit since biden became president. Whether that is correct or not, that is what is going to happen in Nov.


You miss the point.
You don't seem to realize what drives market prices the most.
And the general public seems to follow.

Cause ------>effect.
That's the argument.

( edit: deleted political comment  )


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> And there are no critical opinions of biden??? With biden releasing oil from the strategic reserve it should have a short term effect on price however I just checked and there are only approx 560million barrels in the spr and only about half of that is "Sweet" crude.
> Looks to me like biden is trying to make up for his incredibly bad decision to curtail oil production.


Biden is going to release about 1 million barrels of oil per day for 180 days. The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve is only supposed to be used for a short-term emergency. Biden is abusing it and using it for pure political purposes. Again, Biden has shown that he is not interested in solving this problem at all. Its only about making himself and the Democrats look better for the November elections.


----------



## crjdriver

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden is going to release about 1 million barrels of oil per day for 180 days. The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve is only supposed to be used for a short-term emergency. Biden is abusing it and using it for pure political purposes. Again, Biden has shown that he is not interested in solving this problem at all. Its only about making himself and the Democrats look better for the November elections.


Well, at least we agree. I doubt anything can save the election for dems however we will see.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Does "seditious Conspiracy" count??
> 
> _"The criminal charges against rioters so far have ranged from misdemeanors to obstructing Congress in its duty to certify the Electoral College result. The Justice Department has also lodged conspiracy charges against leaders of two of the extremist groups who figured prominently in the Capitol attack, the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys.
> 
> Enrique Tarrio, the former leader of the Proud Boys, was charged this month with conspiring with other top lieutenants of the far-right nationalist group to disrupt the certification of the election.
> 
> In January, prosecutors charged Stewart Rhodes, the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers militia, with seditious conspiracy for what the government has described as a plot to violently disrupt the work of Congress."_


What about the conspiracy by the Democrats to try to force Trump out of office by any means including lying and bringing forth false evidence through the Justice Department and the FISA court. All the top Democrats were in on it including Hilary Clinton, Biden, and Obama. They all deserve many years in prison for the numerous felonies they committed. O I forgot, the Democrats believe that winning by any means is all that counts. For them nothing is off the table including treason and sedition.

I am not condoning what people did on January 6. I am only emphasizing that what happened on that day was minor compared to what the Democats have done and are continuing to do even today. Where is the justice in that?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden is going to release about 1 million barrels of oil per day for 180 days. The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve is only supposed to be used for a short-term emergency. Biden is abusing it and using it for pure political purposes. Again, Biden has shown that he is not interested in solving this problem at all. Its only about making himself and the Democrats look better for the November elections.


Thank you for your impartial opinion 
And if he doesn't, he's just an evil socialist lol!

Blather


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> What about the conspiracy by the Democrats to try to force Trump out of office by any means including lying and bringing forth false evidence through the Justice Department and the FISA court. All the top Democrats were in on it including Hilary Clinton, Biden, and Obama. They all deserve many years in prison for the numerous felonies they committed. O I forgot, the Democrats believe that winning by any means is all that counts. For them nothing is off the table including treason and sedition.
> 
> .......................


Are you off your meds? Again?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......
> 
> I am not condoning what people did on January 6. ......................


Sure you are.
Matter of fact, desperate to image it as just a rowdy crowd.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> .................. I doubt anything can save the election for dems however we will see.


Fair point.
Propaganda simply isn't going their way these days.
There's a war on.
And some people seem to want the USofA to be among the losers for political gain.


----------



## Johnny b

Say, what about those oil production cuts? (  )


----------



## Johnny b

Anyone bother to check out the dates on the X axis? 










Oh my goodness ha ha ha ha!

Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump

I remember a ditty from the past.
Land of Confusion.






Maybe there'll be an updated version one day.


----------



## MisterEd51

Joe Biden in his response to high gas prices is also doing the following:



> The Biden administration plans to use the Defense Production Act (DPA) to ramp up the mining and processing of key minerals used in batteries for renewable energy and electric vehicles. That could include nickel, lithium, cobalt, graphite, and manganese.


So Biden's strategy is, "Allow gas prices to rise until people get tired of it. They then dump their gas guzzlers. and buy electric cars. Biden becomes the hero because he has made sure there are plenty of electric car batteries available when that happens. Wow! How thoughtful of him. 🙄


----------



## Johnny b

> (edit, had to edit the source )
> 
> So Biden's strategy is, "Allow gas prices to rise until people get tired of it. They then dump their gas guzzlers. and buy electric cars. Biden becomes the hero because he has made sure there are plenty of electric car batteries available when that happens. Wow! How thoughtful of him. 🙄


Wait a minute, crj has tied the issue to restricting oil extraction, the drill baby drill, argument.
But that's a fallacy because most domestic oil is derived from private property, not Federal lands.

But you disagree.
Your argument is about just letting the price rise.
I am aware you like Federal manipulation of an economy while denouncing socialism, but isn't that about the weakest argument from you yet? Just let it rise?
In a capitalistic model, the issue is largely supply and demand.
In your argument, shouldn't the pricing structure adjust to supply and demand and rise or fall on that criteria alone? ( it doesn't but you don't seem to like the answers )

( Ed, what the hell are you doing, comrade  )

I haven't seen any new federal taxes that fit the time line.
And I'm unaware of the Federal government building electric cars and trucks.

There is a war on and Biden releases reserves......and all I hear is complaints about how you guys object to paying high gasoline prices for your gas hogs 
It's going to get worse.....promise 
For the mean time, I'll enjoy driving the hell out of my Z28 and I'm not complaining at all 

LOL!

BTW, refineries have more control over pump prices than the drillers.
Really


----------



## Wino

Biden seems to understand the gas crisis better than wingers here - Big Oil is the problem - there is no rational reason for gas pricing being where it is other than Big Oil greed - same as all price jabbing in past - bogus, nothing more. Biden should invoke Defense Production Act on oil production, or just nationalize the dips.



> Speaking directly to oil company executives, Biden told them "enough of lavishing excessive profits" and passing on the cost of oil to consumers, adding that they have "everything they need" and "nothing is standing in their way" to boost production.
> "They don't want to increase supply because Putin's price hike means higher profits," Biden said.
> He went on to propose a "use it or lose it" policy, calling on Congress to create legislation to tax companies if they're sitting on idle wells and lands that aren't producing for Americans.
> "No company should take advantage of a pandemic or Vladimir Putin at the expense of American families," Biden said. "Production and innovation, that's what they should do."
> "Invest in your customers," he added, noting that it's not only "the patriotic thing" but "it's good for your business as well."


My ex-wife's family has land with wells - all they are being paid is for lease, no production as wells not producing oil or gas. Spigot closed, but not by Biden nor the orange sphincter, for that matter.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Biden seems to understand the gas crisis better than wingers here - Big Oil is the problem - there is no rational reason for gas pricing being where it is other than Big Oil greed - same as all price jabbing in past - bogus, nothing more. Biden should invoke Defense Production Act on oil production, or just nationalize the dips.
> 
> My ex-wife's family has land with wells - all they are being paid is for lease, no production as wells not producing oil or gas. Spigot closed, but not by Biden nor the orange sphincter, for that matter.


That's the socialist in you talking. You think that the federal government knows best how to control oil production and pricing. By your thinking Biden should take over oil production like they did in Venezuela. We all know how well that went.😱


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> ..
> 
> My ex-wife's family has land with wells - all they are being paid is for lease, no production as wells not producing oil or gas. Spigot closed, but not by Biden nor the orange sphincter, for that matter.


It's more common than the general public realizes.

My late wife's relatives hold land in Pennsylvania,originally for agriculture.
Coal was found but it turned out to be too low a quality and quantity to strip mine.
Natural gas was found, however.
No extraction yet. But the cows are happy 
Leases are still being paid.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> That's the socialist in you talking. You think that the federal government knows best how to control oil production and pricing. By your thinking Biden should take over oil production like they did in Venezuela. We all know how well that went.😱


I think you are....confused.
And judgemental......very mental.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Biden seems to understand the gas crisis better than wingers here - Big Oil is the problem - there is no rational reason for gas pricing being where it is other than Big Oil greed - same as all price jabbing in past - bogus, nothing more. Biden should invoke Defense Production Act on oil production, or just nationalize the dips.


I'm not seeing drastic action needed at this time. 
With a war in progress, it would be sensible to set up a potential framework for necessity.
But there is no current oil shortage, just price swings.
And there are multiple reasons.
Covid and Putin plus a poor response by Trump in addressing Covid to start with.
I recently read drillers and refineries were being cautious at the moment on increasing extraction and refining. It's a profit consideration. Pressure from stock holders to maintain
consistent dividends mainly.
I posted an article that addressed that elsewhere.
( I'll search for that and post it later )

There's really two parts to the problem.

Refineries control the price at the pumps and drillers take contracts/orders from the refineries on how much is to be delivered for refining.

They actually control supply and demand at the same time 

IMO, our culture and technology is changing quick enough, Biden won't need to do much intervention.....with out a war of course. And 'there you go'.


----------



## crjdriver

As a side note, did you see where the hillary 2016 campaign was fined $8000 and the DNC fined $105,000. Politics is such a clean and well principled endeavor


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> As a side note, did you see where the hillary 2016 campaign was fined $8000 and the DNC fined $105,000. Politics is such a clean and well principled endeavor


No, I didn't notice.
And to be honest, not surprised and at the same time don't care 
I didn't vote for her nor am I member of the DNC

But thanks anyway


----------



## Johnny b

Well lookie here.

Searching for an old news article on oil drilling I came across this:

Hold on tightly now:

* Biden Wants Oil Companies to Pay Penalties on Unused Drilling Leases *
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...l-companies-to-pay-penalties-on-unused-leases



> U.S. President Joe Biden wants oil drillers to pay penalties when federal leases go unused in an effort to prod the industry into pumping more.


Gotta admit....that is creative 

I haven't had so much fun since when my screen name at TSG was 'Stoner' and I crucified those debating to legalize recreational drugs


----------



## Johnny b

Wow, where did everybody go?


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Wow, where did everybody go?


Can't speak for others, but I'm climbing down from my cross to make placards for my "Legalize Drugs" rally this afternoon at the Alamo !!


----------



## Johnny b

With all that's going wrong in the US....... the Putin War, remnants of a pandemic, gasoline so expensive rich people are complaining ( wait, correction needed ) wealthy rightwing extremists are complaining......there is this:

* March jobs report preview: Payrolls expected to rise 490,000 as employment inches closer to pre-pandemic levels *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/marc...or-department-unemployment-usa-210149591.html

The carnage Trump left behind is being overcome.
If it weren't for Putin and the fascist support he gets from US citizens and politicians, it would be better and quicker.

Here's to more drilling on those unused Federal leases :up:

I, and my Z28, appreciate the thought 
( I know it's not politically correct, but I love driving that car and I admit, I'd probably be driving it no matter what Joe does. I drive on 'my dime' and determine what I want to spend it on. 
Speaking to that.....the only President to lock me in my home and restrict my mobility and spending habits....was.....Donald J Trump.
I wonder how many rightwing extremists remember or even care?
Masks seem to bother them the most.
Go figure. 
Just saying  )


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Can't speak for others, but I'm climbing down from my cross to make placards for my "Legalize Drugs" rally this afternoon at the Alamo !!


LOL!
Those were fun days :up:


----------



## Johnny b

Oh my....I just realized.

I hope no one was offended when I called it 'Putin's' war. (  )


----------



## crjdriver

You do understand that not all of the leased land can actually produce oil/gas correct? I tried to get a percentage of leases that were viable producers and the numbers are ALL over; from a low of 3% to a high of 80% It just depends on whose numbers you use.


----------



## Wino

Use it or lose it should apply to oil leases. Why allow sitting on them - if someone else may develop?? Unused lease is just used to prevent others access to stymie competition to benefit profits.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> You do understand that not all of the leased land can actually produce oil/gas correct? I tried to get a percentage of leases that were viable producers and the numbers are ALL over; from a low of 3% to a high of 80% It just depends on whose numbers you use.


You do understand that a competent business in a capitalistic economic model wouldn't maintain an investment knowing it had no value now or in the future?
The investors/stock holders response would most likely be brutal.


----------



## Johnny b

If there is no petroleum on the leased land, they should simply give up the lease.


----------



## crjdriver

My understanding of how those leases work is that you buy the lease and it is for a 10yr period. Giving up the lease would not make a difference in cost since it was already paid. 
Again, info on this subject is really all over and it depends on what site you use. Perhaps obfuscation by design?


----------



## Johnny b

BTW.....most petroleum extraction in the US occurs on private property. The Feds aren't involved in those leases.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> My understanding of how those leases work is that you buy the lease and it is for a 10yr period. Giving up the lease would not make a difference in cost since it was already paid.
> Again, info on this subject is really all over and it depends on what site you use. Perhaps obfuscation by design?


Erroneous argument if nonusage becomes a monetized consideration.
A 10 year lease on non-viable sites could impact profits. If not, it would incur a rise of prices at the pump.

Use it or lose it.


----------



## Johnny b

Drill baby drill!


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> ..................... Giving up the lease would not make a difference in cost since it was already paid.
> ................


I suspect the additional incentives will be on an annual basis.
If not, they should be.


----------



## Johnny b

Maybe even on a monthly basis? ( ouch! )


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Biden seems to understand the gas crisis better than wingers here - Big Oil is the problem - there is no rational reason for gas pricing being where it is other than Big Oil greed - same as all price jabbing in past - bogus, nothing more. ...........................


That is becoming more and more obvious.
Oil producers and drillers are simply pleased with the way things are.

I just read this:

* Biden's Oil-Relief Plan Seen Backfiring as Drillers Dig In Heels *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/biden-oil-relief-plan-seen-194900986.html

Biden wants them to drill.
The Trump people scream 'Drill baby Drill' while screeching at Biden.

And yet the oil industry just doesn't wanna do it.
And yet, somehow elements of the Trump Party are sympathetic with them?

'Oil....it's what we do'


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> ........................ Biden should invoke Defense Production Act on oil production, or just nationalize the dips.
> ...................


As you know, I can't go along with nationalizing the oil industry.
However, doesn't the Defense Production Act do that effectively on a temporary basis? A 'make it so' or else solution during emergencies?
I believe so.

Maybe the Trump people forgot Trump also enacted it during his own administration?


----------



## Wino

Spoke with some oil people yesterday. They would like to see oil stabilize around $85 +/- per bbl and they'd be happy campers. They'd still make money at $45 bbl, just not as much, as they enjoy screwing us more.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Use it or lose it should apply to oil leases. Why allow sitting on them - if someone else may develop?? Unused lease is just used to prevent others access to stymie competition to benefit profits.


Again that is the socialist in you talking. Some cities use eminent domain to take land away from people because they were not using using it in the most profitable way. Socialists think that the government should have either ownership or control of property. They say it is to benefit the people when they really mean to benefit the government. The ultimate control is to eliminate private propery rights with the government owning or controlling all property. Again that is what happened in Venezuela and we all know how well that went.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Spoke with some oil people yesterday. They would like to see oil stabilize around $85 +/- per bbl and they'd be happy campers. They'd still make money at $45 bbl, just not as much, as they enjoy screwing us more.


Democrats think it is unethical for companies to actually make money. The same Democrats think it is fine to tax i.e. confiscate as much money (and even property) from individuals and companies they think have too much.

I read one time that a study showed that conservatives were much more charitable with their money than liberals. That sound about right because liberals think it is the government's job to be charitable with their money. That is taxpayers money. I am sure they are proud of the term spread the wealth.

Why is always about big oil or big companies screwing people? Big government screws a lot more people. Look out when big government colludes with big companies to screw everyone.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Again that is the socialist in you talking. Some cities use eminent domain to take land away from people because they were not using using it in the most profitable way. Socialists think that the government should have either ownership or control of property. They say it is to benefit the people when they really mean to benefit the government. The ultimate control is to eliminate private propery rights with the government owning or controlling all property. Again that is what happened in Venezuela and we all know how well that went.


I'm familiar with eminent domain.
Cities, townships in past iterations and now even corporations can use eminent domain and this is important, whether the land owner is using it or not, is now irrelevant.
Would you like to guess when that happened?
2005.
Like to guess who was President at the time?
I can tell you who it wasn't. A Democrat.

But to be fair, it was really the Supreme Court at the time under a Republican administration that made the decision.
I can even post the case name = Kelo v. New London



> The ultimate control is to eliminate private propery rights with the government owning or controlling all property.


( Can I call BS or what?  )



> The ultimate control is to eliminate private propery rights with the government owning or controlling all property.


No.....the current iteration is about corporate control in search of business sites.

You are so confused 



> Again that is what happened in Venezuela and we all know how well that went.


Same again.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Democrats think it is unethical for companies to actually make money. The same Democrats think it is fine to tax i.e. confiscate as much money (and even property) from individuals and companies they think have too much.
> 
> I read one time that a study showed that conservatives were much more charitable with their money than liberals. That sound about right because liberals think it is the government's job to be charitable with their money. That is taxpayers money. I am sure they are proud of the term spread the wealth.
> 
> Why is always about big oil or big companies screwing people? Big government screws a lot more people. Look out when big government colludes with big companies to screw everyone.


Take a deep breath, Ed. 

Your argument has gone to who gives away the most money?

Gates and Buffett might disagree.



> I read one time that a study showed ....


Yeah, sure ( ? ) but you didn't present that study for all to see.



> Why is always about big oil or big companies screwing people?


This is a debate forum and the topic of drill baby drill came up.
But always?
Nah......The Donald has screwed an entire society and you won't even address it 



> I am sure they are proud of the term spread the wealth.


Fair question.
But you don't answer the questions presented to YOU!
Considering how wealth was spread under Trump, no doubt they're almost envious 
But you 'won't go there' will you? 



> Big government screws a lot more people.


I kinda thought you were a 'states righter' all along.
Dixiecrat or Tea Party?
A confederate solution?
We know so little about you Ed.



> Look out when big government colludes with big companies to screw everyone.


Hmmmm.....but apparently not a neo-con corporate socialist. 
That reminds me of the arguments against the GW Bush financial wizardry.

No wonder you seem confused. You hate your political party and struggle to support it at the same time. Must be tearing you apart.

You Trump people


----------



## Johnny b

Evan if Joe is a crook, I can prove Trump was a worse President.....wait a minute 
I already have.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.





> It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime.


Extremism.
It didn't just start with Trump.
Brutality.
That didn't just start with Trump.
Torture.
That didn't just start with Trump.

It's been with us in the USofA for a long time.
As elements of our political parties polarized, so did the above traits become admirable and more common.

Trump wasn't the first to embrace the dark side of humanity,
Recently there was GW Bush.
This article popped up this morning as a reminder:

* Bush and his torturers | Napolitano *
https://news.yahoo.com/bush-torturers-napolitano-080103656.html

So what was THE Big difference.
Could it be Trump that allowed more of us to die than Bush did?
But Bush never faced a pandemic you'd say.
Indeed I'd say. He prepared for them.

BTW, I didn't like or vote for either of them.

The Democrats have their issues, too. Much of it is socialism.
Sanders, AOC and Warren sit on the sidelines pushing unwise extremist economic/social plans that too often wind up as destroyers of societies.

( edit: ) I didn't vote for for any of them, either 

That element has had turns of popularity but the fascist element of the Republican Party ( The Trump people ) are currently the darlings.
Like the German National Socialist movement of the 1930's, in the current USofA extreme nationalism within a degenerate/ignorant society is embraced as solutions to their apparent short comings. It's always someone else's fault.

Now we debate oil prices in this thread.
To hell with the reasons.
To hell with solutions.
It's just gonna be 'all Joe's fault.'   

Currently, there are no gasoline shortages in the US.
Prices at the pump are increasing.
Many reasons, but shortage isn't one of them.
Trump people cry 'Drill baby drill'.
The oil industry says not at this time.
Oil industry investors want secure profits and don't want supply and demand issues to escalate into a potential glut with an associated price war. Profits do take beatings during price wars.

During the current crisis in Europe, the Putin war, the effects of the Covid pandemic, can any of you Trump People show an acceptable way to lower the price of gasoline at the pumps.
Especially given that the oil industry and their owners don't want to produce more at this time.

It's easy to criticize Biden on oil.

What would be a better way to lower gasoline prices at the pump? ( That's acceptable, of course )

Ed?


----------



## Johnny b

<crickets>

Still no word from Ed.


----------



## Johnny b

It's another day.

lol!


Is there any practical solution to lowering the price of gasoline?
And what price level would you attempt to achieve?


( if you have me on ignore, you're only hurting yourself. )


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> It's another day.
> 
> lol!
> 
> Is there any practical solution to lowering the price of gasoline?
> And what price level would you attempt to achieve?
> 
> ( if you have me on ignore, you're only hurting yourself. )


I think 'Edvis' may have left the building. 

As for oil prices, Big Oil just has to flood the market with crude - fat chance that will happen.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I think 'Edvis' may have left the building.
> 
> As for oil prices, Big Oil just has to flood the market with crude - fat chance that will happen.


That seems to be his MO.

But it does beg the question, how?
There are no shortages of oil in the US. Nor LNG.

There is a war going on that affects oil markets on a global scale.
And Europe is facing the worst negativity because they're dependent on their adversary for oil and natural gas.
Ed has been ignoring natural gas and focusing on oil production in the US as if the rest of the world's production has no influence.
.

Interesting discussion here on natural gas, pros and cons.:
https://www.ispionline.it/it/pubblicazione/can-eu-do-without-russian-gas-34122

As far as oil goes, the Saudis ( and all of OPEC ) would love to regain markets the Russians exit.

Politics does affect energy prices.
As Ed pointed out in the graph he posted and I explained what it meant, two oil producing nations, Russia and Saudi Arabia, partook in the venture of an oil price war for domination of that market, producing a glut, and the dynamics of 'supply and demand' drove oil pricing down a well along with profits.
Trump 'saved the day' ( :rolleyes; ) reducing production ( credit also goes to the pandemic ) eventually increasing profits ( credit also goes to inflation).

Now the drillers and refiners don't want to go back in time to less profitable days.
And from a truly capitalistic standpoint, why would they agree to surrendering profit for their toils?
Just to make Joe look good? I'm doubtful.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden pauses new oil and gas leases amid legal battle over cost of climate change
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden pauses new oil and gas leases amid legal battle over cost of climate change
> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/bid...ew-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html





> The leasing pause is an unintended result of the Feb. 11 decision by U.S. District Judge James Cain, who sided with a group GOP-led states and argued that the Biden administration's attempt to raise the real cost of climate change would hike energy costs and hurt state revenues from energy production.


So?


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I think 'Edvis' may have left the building.
> 
> ...................


Nah....he's just putting us on 'ignore'


----------



## Johnny b

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/josh-axelrod/course-correction-federal-oil-and-gas-leasing-needs-fixing



> *America Has One Million Producing Oil and Gas Wells-90 Percent Aren't Federal*
> 
> The vast majority of leasing, drilling, and production happens on private and state lands.


----------



## Johnny b

<yawn>
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/f...-oil-and-gas-leasing-program-doi-eo-14008.pdf

REPORT ON THE FEDERAL OIL
AND GAS LEASING PROGRAM
Prepared in Response to Executive Order 14008
U.S. Department of the Interior
November 2021



> Federal onshore oil and gas production accounts for approximately seven percent of domestically produced oil and eight percent of domestically produced natural gas. The BLM currently manages 37,496 Federal oil and gas leases covering 26.6 million acres with nearly 96,100 wells.


( and there's more )


----------



## Johnny b

I know I know......Ed's not going to read or reply to this post.
Like, why start now?

To start with, this is Ed's argument, not mine.
I'm only responding 

Anyone miss how negative Ed is about the government's involvement in capitalistic ventures? 'Eminent domain' anyone?
Well then, why in the current debate is Ed supporting the selling off of public property. ( minerals )....on the cheap ....by the government .......for a commercial venture?

Also:
The government simply turns around and buys quantities of it back at market price for security issues, essentially subsidizing the oil industry.
What a deal.....if you're an oil oligarch.

And shouldn't the drillers be paying more than a 12.5% royalty? 
That was based on 1920's technology.
That sounds awful cheap.
No wonder they want to lock up more land in leases.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/federal-oil-and-gas-royalty-and-revenue-reform/

But damn, look how well my Marathon stock is doing these days LOL!
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MRO?p=MRO&.tsrc=fin-srch

Check out the 5yr graph.
Notice the decline during Trump.
Notice the growth during Biden.
What's not to like?


----------



## Johnny b

I wondered why Biden rejected sending retired US aircraft into the Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-send-retired-airmen-to-defend-ukraine-report

Eric Prince.....The mercenary that headed Blackwater and made an embarrassing mess to clean up, torture an all.
The same guy whose sister Betsy Devos, with close ties to the Trump administration, became Secretary of Education. Yeah...that gal with the bad grammar.

The same guy here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/middleeast/erik-prince-libya-embargo.html


> Erik Prince, the former head of the security contractor Blackwater Worldwide and a prominent supporter of former President Donald J. Trump, violated a United Nations arms embargo on Libya by sending weapons to a militia commander who was attempting to overthrow the internationally backed government, according to U.N. investigators.
> ................
> .............Mr. Prince deployed a force of foreign mercenaries, armed with attack aircraft, gunboats and cyberwarfare capabilities, to eastern Libya at the height of a major battle in 2019.


Other than a Trump, who would ever trust a mercenary?


> In the past decade he has relaunched himself as an executive who strikes deals - sometimes for minerals, other times involving military force - in war-addled but resource-rich countries, mostly in Africa.


Get ready....

https://www.thedailybeast.com/erik-...ned-russian-mercenary-firm-wagner-report-says

He also offered his services in the past to another mercenary group that currently still works for Putin.


> Erik Prince, founder of the private security company Blackwater and a Trump administration adviser, has recently attempted to cultivate a business relationship with a sanctioned Russian paramilitary organization called the *Wagner Group*, The Intercept reported on Monday. The Trump administration sanctioned Wagner in 2017 for having "recruited and sent soldiers to fight alongside [Russian-backed] separatists in eastern Ukraine" in 2014. ( Bolding by me. )


Again, who other than a Trump, backed by Putin, would ever trust such a person?
You'd never know who has recently hired out his services.

Good call, Joe......:up:


----------



## Johnny b

It just keeps getting more and more interesting:

*Exclusive: Documents Reveal Erik Prince's $10 Billion Plan to Make Weapons and Create a Private Army in Ukraine *
https://time.com/6076035/erik-prince-ukraine-private-army/

Way too much to copy and paste.

With a real army of significance, Prince would become a 'king maker' and able to control elections at a minimum. Anyone come to mind


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden called Murdoch the 'most dangerous man in the world,' new book alleges *
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/03/media/reliable-sources-biden-murdoch-fox-news/index.html

I disagree.
Top 10 maybe, but most? No.
It's rather obvious Putin is currently at the top.
The most dangerous man living in the US is DJ Trump. But there seems a large group of supporters vying for his role. The fascist movement.

It is of interest how the three factor together.


----------



## Johnny b

Fox flogging the oil fallacy again:



> *CNN guest warns tapping into oil reserves won't help US gas prices: 'If we don't refill' we're 'in trouble'*


https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-g...ices-if-we-dont-refill-reserves-us-in-trouble

It won't help very much and like the headline infers, it's not wise to use up the reserves with a war raging in Europe.
The Fox reporters seem to have conveniently forgotten that the oil industry is not motivated at this time to increase production. It's a profit issue.
But in a war with dwindling supplies, that scenario would change. 
Oil would become scarce and more expensive.

So, how will the oil industry be motivated to increase production when they don't want to?

BTW, Shell gasoline in my area was down to $3.87 the last few days
And there were no lines at the pumps.

Fox also ran this article several days earlier:

* CNN expert on gas prices: 'Really smart strategy' would be to 'simply use less gasoline' *
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-e...rt-strategy-would-be-simply-use-less-gasoline



> "In the longer term, the really smart strategy for the Biden administration or any future administration would be to attack this problem, not from the supply side, but rather from the demand side," Raimi said.
> 
> He said there was "very little" the Biden administration could do to reduce gas prices because of international events, like Russia invading Ukraine, "that the U.S. has no control over." Later on, he argued the "key" for consumers to feel relief from the high prices is to not use as much.


That would help lower gasoline prices a little, but diesel ( used for trucking and transportation ) not so much.

Of course, then there's a possibility of oil production declining to met a new profit scenario. Supply versus demand.

Will the US drive less? At this time, probably not.


----------



## Johnny b

Only posting this to show that a complicated dynamic is in play with world oil markets.

* Shunned Oil Piling Up Off China as Virus Outbreak Worsens *
https://www.bloombergquint.com/glob...piling-up-off-china-as-virus-outbreak-worsens


----------



## Wino

I'm guessing we'd happily take the Iran and Venezuelan oil off their hands.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> I'm guessing we'd happily take the Iran and Venezuelan oil off their hands.


It makes the Democrats happy. To them it's good to get oil from Iran and Venezuelan On the other hand the Democrats hate it when we get oil from American oil companies. The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead.😲


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> It makes the Democrats happy. To them it's good to get oil from Iran and Venezuelan On the other hand the Democrats hate it when we get oil from American oil companies. The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead.😲


Translation:
" I wish the US would fold quicker so The Donald can take over.
All hail Vlad. "


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> It makes the Democrats happy. To them it's good to get oil from Iran and Venezuelan On the other hand the Democrats hate it when we get oil from American oil companies. The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead.😲


Hmmmm? After 4 years of Trump, and the ongoing pandemic, what is this thing you call 'wealth'?
Even the business side of the Trump machine has started using a loan shark.

By the way, have you yet discovered MMT?
It's even been in the news recently.
Do you approve or disapprove?
Does it even scare you?
Do you care?

(ps.....if oil prices scare you, I can't wait to see your reaction to MMT .......but then, apparently ignorance really is bliss )


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> It makes the Democrats happy. To them it's good to get oil from Iran and Venezuelan On the other hand the Democrats hate it when we get oil from American oil companies. The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with *other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead*.😲


You mean like Russia, NK and Trump?


----------



## Wino

johnny b - don't confuse the gallery !! They are more worried about CRT than MMT! Not that they understand either.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> johnny b - don't confuse the gallery !! They are more worried about CRT than MMT! Not that they understand either.


I suspect they know less than they deny.......


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> You mean like Russia, NK and Trump?


Should we even be discussing Trump's love for Little Rocket Man?
Just the concept of exchanging 'love letters' sounds wrong to me.
I try not to be judgemental on personal identities.....but really, is the pda necessary?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/master...little-rocket-man-to-were-in-love-11551182404












> The perception that Kim Jong Un, pictured with President Trump in Singapore last year, is in a position of strength 'doesn't bode well for dialogue,' said Jung H. Pak of the Brookings Institution.


That's the Wall Street Journal and as the comment under the photo points out, it makes The Donald appear to be Kim's B........

And think what a disappointment Trump was to Vlad, losing the last election.
The Donald is no longer in a position to simply hand over Europe to the Russian Empire.


----------



## Johnny b

This is sure to upset Ed:

* UPDATE 2-U.S. Senate backs trade, energy measures to punish Russia *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-senate-backs-suspension-145511532.html



> WASHINGTON, April 7 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate imposed further economic pain on Russia over the invasion of Ukraine on Thursday, voting unanimously to remove "most favored nation" trade status for Russia and its close ally Belarus in one bill and banning oil imports in another.
> 
> The Senate voted 100-0 in favor of the measure removing Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) status. Shortly afterward, it backed the energy measure, also by a 100-0 tally.


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden says 'major war crimes' being discovered in Ukraine after he announces new sanctions on Russia *
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/06/politics/us-latest-sanctions-on-russia/index.html



> "Responsible nations have to come together to hold these perpetrators accountable," Biden told a union crowd in Washington as the White House announced new sanctions on Russia's largest financial institutions and number of individuals tied to the Kremlin, including Russian President Vladimir Putin's two adult daughters.
> "We will keep raising the economic cost and ratchet up the pain for Putin and further increase Russia's economic isolation," Biden said, decrying the intentional targeting of civilians by Russia and heralding a united Western response, even as he acknowledged the battle was still ongoing.


Unlike Trump, Biden's no apologist or shill for Vlad.



> Biden has previously said he believes Putin to be a war criminal, and this week called for a trial to hold Moscow accountable.


----------



## Johnny b

Interesting term that seems to replace some 'forgotten' concepts absent in the Trump Party.

*Putinista*

* 'Putinistas' Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar vote against bill to document Russian war crimes *
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi...-bill-document-russian-war-crimes/9502222002/

Russia is obviously committing war crimes and President Biden is tasked with ending them ......all the while certain US politicians take the position of supporting Russia and their atrocities.



> 'Putinistas' Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar vote against bill to document Russian war crimes
> Opinion: There used to be a word for individuals or groups who provided aid and comfort to an enemy. We seem to have forgotten what that was.
> EJ Montini
> Arizona Republic
> 
> On Wednesday, the House passed a bill directing the White House to prepare a report in which it collects and examines evidence concerning war crimes committed since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> 
> Six Republican members of Congress voted no.
> 
> Two of them from Arizona.
> 
> They are, of course, "Putinista" Reps. Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar.
> 
> Biggs later issued a statement saying he voted against the bill because he didn't want the information turned over to the International Criminal Court.


To be fair, Trump had a better way of disposing of evidence.....wad it up and flush it down a toilet. 
Of course, the downside to that was it got the staff PO'ed every time they were tasked with a king sized toilet plunger.

And then there's this:
The attempt to disband Europe's defense shield, NATO.


> These same two vassals of Vladimir Putin were among 63 members of Congress - again, all Republicans - to vote no on a non-binding resolution reaffirming our country's "unequivocal support for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as an alliance founded on democratic principles."


Kinda obvious who would have benefited from that.

The author of the article wasn't done. There's more.

And it follows the same pattern.
Support for Putin and Russian domination in Europe.

Rather anti-Biden at the same time.
Definitely un-American.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> You mean like Russia, NK and Trump?


Don't be so obtuse. You had to bring Trump into it. You and your Democrat cohorts have a lot of nerve linking Trump with Russia when anyone with an ounce of brain matter knows that Hillary on behalf of the Democrat Party paid a Russian to make up all the dirt that was used to frame Trump. Keep going and you will only look more foolish.

BTW, even dim witted Biden has always known what I am saying is true. He and all the other Democrats politicians know that there are plenty of Democrat supporting mind numbed robots out that will believe any lie they tell.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> johnny b - don't confuse the gallery !! They are more worried about CRT than MMT! Not that they understand either.


I don't know what you comment you are talking about since it is blocked by me.

CRT is simply identity-based Marxism, based solely on the color of one's skin. Traditional Marxism tries to divide people by class. Not the same but the tactics and goals are the same. Anyone that believes in CRT is far to the left of any traditional liberal Democrat. That is plenty to worry about.

I once read that after the fall of the Soviet Union a prominent Communist thinker was asked why he was not worried about that. He said that he knew of several westerners had embraced Marxist thinking. He expected they would spread that ideology to western countries including the United States. It started with University professors who then passed it on to their students. After maybe 50 years these students have spread throughout the United States. They are in may lower schools now including elementary and high schools and their boards. They are in many corporations and their boards. If you watch many main stream TV networks news programs the influence is apparent. There are many TV shows that I like whose writers apparently have been influenced by CRT thinking. It is hard anymore to get away from it.

Us conservatives are worried about a lot of things nowdays with CRT being just one of them. The reason why CRT is more important than any other is it threatens to tear apart the very fabric of our country. If it succeeds in that our country could easily fall into chaos leading to being just another one of the other second tier counties with China being the only super power left. That is not OK with me.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> It makes the Democrats happy. To them it's good to get oil from Iran and Venezuelan On the other hand the Democrats hate it when we get oil from American oil companies. The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead.😲





Wino said:


> You mean like Russia, NK and Trump?





MisterEd51 said:


> Don't be so obtuse. You had to bring Trump into it. You and your Democrat cohorts have a lot of nerve linking Trump with Russia when anyone with an ounce of brain matter knows that Hillary on behalf of the Democrat Party paid a Russian to make up all the dirt that was used to frame Trump. Keep going and you will only look more foolish.
> 
> BTW, even dim witted Biden has always known what I am saying is true. He and all the other Democrats politicians know that there are plenty of Democrat supporting mind numbed robots out that will believe any lie they tell.


How can Trump's friendships with nations that currently want to kill us not be discussed?
You 'opened that door'!
How can you even avoid Trump's call for a Civil War and eventually tried to follow it up with an insurrection?

All I see in your posts, Ed, is intense bloviating with a lot of vociferous hateful rhetoric.

And I add, repetition of falsehoods and misrepresentation don't make it truthful.
It only compares the individual's logic with the Hitlers and Stalinists of history.
Do you really want to do that?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I don't know what you comment you are talking about since it is blocked by me.
> 
> CRT is simply identity-based Marxism, based solely on the color of one's skin. Traditional Marxism tries to divide people by class. Not the same but the tactics and goals are the same. Anyone that believes in CRT is far to the left of any traditional liberal Democrat. That is plenty to worry about.
> 
> I once read that after the fall of the Soviet Union a prominent Communist thinker was asked why he was not worried about that. He said that he knew of several westerners had embraced Marxist thinking. He expected they would spread that ideology to western countries including the United States. It started with University professors who then passed it on to their students. After maybe 50 years these students have spread throughout the United States. They are in may lower schools now including elementary and high schools and their boards. They are in many corporations and their boards. If you watch many main stream TV networks news programs the influence is apparent. There are many TV shows that I like whose writers apparently have been influenced by CRT thinking. It is hard anymore to get away from it.
> 
> Us conservatives are worried about a lot of things nowdays with CRT being just one of them. The reason why CRT is more important than any other is it threatens to tear apart the very fabric of our country. If it succeeds in that our country could easily fall into chaos leading to being just another one of the other second tier counties with China being the only super power left. That is not OK with me.


You may be a card carrying member of the current Trump inspired image of the Republican Party, but it was the Lincoln version that worked in a positive way to achieve equality.
It is the Trump version you try to hide. It's rather obvious.



> CRT is simply identity-based Marxism, based solely on the color of one's skin.


So why are you trying to hide the injustices?
Why aren't you arguing or at least promoting solutions rather than continuing with the hatred?
BTW, and I've suspected it for a long time, you haven't a clue as to what socialism is.
Marxist theory isn't about segregating classes of people. 
If you knew the objective of Marx's theory, you'd have a much better argument against it.
You don't and probably never will 



> I once read......( edited for brevity  )


And somehow you came to embrace fascism as a solution?

Are you in any way related to Joe McCarthy?
You appear to be channeling him.
Trump's favorite mafia drug lawyer, Roy Cohn, started out as council to McCarthy.

A little history for the audience:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn



> Us conservatives.....


You're no 'conservative' and neither is Trump.
All you have is membership in a political party.



> The reason why CRT is more important than any other is it threatens to tear apart the very fabric of our country.


Nah. It does expose how racism came about and what needs to be corrected.
Of course, those that are responsible for continuing in their racist ways are going to be the ones that deny there is a problem and claim it's merely subversion of their own culture.



> If it succeeds in that our country could easily fall into chaos leading to being just another one of the other second tier counties with China being the only super power left. That is not OK with me.


Is this why you seem so sympathetic to the Russian Empire's expansion into Europe?
You'd rather have a Russian master than a Chinese?

Serious question ( yeah, I'm aware you have me on ignore but I'll ask anyway ).
How can you be an American Firster and kneel to the Russians, at the same time?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I don't know what you comment you are talking about since it is blocked by me.
> ...............................


Ignorance is bliss 

( And the easiest to debate  )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .......................................The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries even if they hate us and want all of us dead.😲


Interesting comment considering.........

In Ohio ( and Florida ):

* Ohio GOP Senate hopeful: Middle class doesn't pay fair share *
https://apnews.com/article/2022-mid...rsonal-taxes-7cb1d1085bb9a3cf9a82ed2a23297df7



> The comments by Gibbons, a millionaire investment banker from Cleveland, were made in a September episode of "The Landscape" podcast by Crain's Cleveland Business. But they could take on new resonance after Republican Sen. Rick Scott of Florida, a potential 2024 presidential candidate, introduced a governing plan in February that has divided the party over its call to raise taxes on millions of Americans who don't earn enough to pay federal income taxes.


And Gibbon's main Republican opponent in the upcoming primary is Mandel whose only reply to his political positions on anything is.... ' I'm a Marine'.
Well....thank you for your service, but.......?

As Trump camp followers, I suspect they embrace his motto:
*" What's yours is mine, what's mine's me own"*


Sort of the 'I can carry more than I can steal' syndrome 

*"Sharing? We don' need no stinkin' sharing" * 

But seriously:

https://theconversation.com/has-america-become-poorer-under-donald-trump-as-joe-biden-claims-150564
A lot to read.
Last paragraph:


> The United States is undoubtedly poorer at the end of Donald Trump's time in office. Having undermined its social safety net, the president deprived the country of crucial weapons in the fight against poverty, at a time when an unprecedented health crisis set it soaring.


And here in Ohio and Florida, we have choices to make that involve sticking higher taxation on those in the middle class, struggling to survive.

Ed posted:


> The Democrats think we need to share the wealth with other countries........................


No, Ed.
They want you to pay more so those in the middle class and those already living in poverty...... survive.
I agree they sometimes ask for and expect too much.
But the fascist mentality of the Trump era denies too much.

Do you favor Putin's solutions because he doesn't share?


----------



## Johnny b

My local gas stations are selling gasoline at reduced prices lately.
Shell regular has gone from $4.19 several weeks ago to $3.74 this morning.


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> My local gas stations are selling gasoline at reduced prices lately.
> Shell regular has gone from $4.19 several weeks ago to $3.74 this morning.


Biden's plan to drive up oil prices isn't working!


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Biden's plan to drive up oil prices isn't working!


It really t'd me off. 

I topped off anyway.


----------



## Johnny b

It appears Donald Trump jr wrote an email message, on ways to illegally over throw Biden's win in the 2020 election.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/08/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-meadows-text-message.html

I was under the impression he was the smarter brother and Eric was the idiot.
Who's laughing now?


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> …I was under the impression he was the smarter brother and Eric was the idiot.
> …


more like the lesser of two idiots


----------



## Johnny b

* Spurred by Putin, Russians Turn on One Another Over the War *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/09/world/europe/putin-russia-war-ukraine.html

Russia is a school of propaganda, and the polarization can be seen to divide a society into self destruction as it rationalizes the return to conquest, much like the days of Communist rule.
Now it's expressing fascism while headed by an officer of the defunct KGB. 
Same goals. Absolute rule and empire/nation-state building.

This same mentality exists in the US.

They hide in plain sight. 
From ivory tower elitists to to flag waving 'patriots' crashing through barricades in attempts to overthrow a legal government.
They advance racism.
Reject life saving medical science.
Call for theistic rule.
They deny human rights.
'They' are many with one goal.

What ever it takes to achieve domination and absolute rule.
Trump was the magnet that brought many, if not most, of these destructive groups together under one banner.
MAGA....National Socialism.

With all the problems Biden faces, and there are a lot, he also faces a movement within our society that intentionally creates or at the least promotes the dissension that's tearing our society apart.
And he'll be judged on how well he succeeds.

In case anyone forgot, it was Candice Owens that called for an invasion of Canada in order to free their people.
It was Trump that commented we should try out the concept of 'President for Life'.
Many think it can't happen here.
And yet it is.

We shouldn't wind up like Russia.


----------



## Johnny b

(  )
There is absolutely no way Biden can top this.
No gaff imaginable........

* Trump claims he's the 'most honest human being being, perhaps, that God ever created' during rally in North Carolina, video shows *
https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...carolina-video-shows/articleshow/90760752.cms



> "I've got to be the cleanest sheriff," Trump said. "I think I'm the most honest human being, perhaps, that God ever created." There were ripples of laughter from his supporters as he said it.












Ha ha ha ha ha ha!


----------



## Wino

Couriant said:


> more like the lesser of two idiots


Apples do not fall far from the tree.


----------



## Wino

I am dismayed that I've been called obtuse by an obtuser !  Reminds me of a fable about rocks and glass houses. As sad as this makes me, I'm happy top report I have not fallen under the spell of incubus Trump (not limited to the female species in this case). Probably a good idea for the obtuser to remove obtuse from s/he's vocabulary.
As an aside to post #401 above - stable genius comes to mind. Honest should be removed from his vocabulary.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I am dismayed that I've been called obtuse by an obtuser ! .................
> 
> .........


Don't let it get you down.
He probably doesn't understand the meaning of the term.

He does seem to be channeling Joseph McCarthy.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


Time hasn't been kind to your argument, Ed.

Biden continues to hold the Chinese at arms-length while calling for the removal of Putin because of war crimes

Trump, on the other hand, at first seemed pleased with the new holocaust Putin imposed on the Ukrainians .......but with public opinion gaining in support of Zelensky, denied everything he said that was videotaped.

Maybe you should be reading different news sources.


----------



## Wino

I'm guessing he didn't participate in the study. 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc...-change-their-attitudes-exposure-cnn-n1294014


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I'm guessing he didn't participate in the study.
> 
> https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc...-change-their-attitudes-exposure-cnn-n1294014


I noticed he's not posted as much since OAN was recently removed from DirecTV.
And what there is, seems mostly like repetition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_America_News_Network

Go figure


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> I'm guessing he didn't participate in the study.
> 
> https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc...-change-their-attitudes-exposure-cnn-n1294014


I just read that article. I wish I was in the study. I would have been in the group that was smart enough to not fall for the constant B.S. from CNN. All the study shows is that there are people that are gullible enough to be persuaded by the constant lies and distortions from CNN. The term for that is being easily brainwashed. You are obviously in that category.

What do you expect from a story published by network that is more dimwitted than CNN?


----------



## Johnny b

> I just read that article. I wish I was in the study. I would have been in the group that was smart enough to not fall for the constant B.S. from CNN. All the study shows is that there are people that are gullible enough to be persuaded by the constant lies and distortions from CNN. The term for that is being easily brainwashed. You are obviously in that category.
> 
> What do you expect from a story published by network that is more dimwitted than CNN?


See what I mean, Wayne.
Same old, same old.


----------



## MisterEd51

Johnny b said:


> See what I mean, Wayne.
> Same old, same old.


Normally I don't see your comments because I have you blocked. I just had to take a peek out of curiosity. Unfortunately, all I got from you is the same old B.S... Back to ignoring you.🤣


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Normally I don't see your comments because I have you blocked. I just had to take a peek out of curiosity. Unfortunately, all I got from you is the same old B.S... Back to ignoring you.🤣


LOL!

Made you look


----------



## Johnny b

How about an encore, Ed?


----------



## Johnny b

Well, I suspect Ed was peeking again, but now he's left the building just missing an interesting poll he'll obviously deny, vociferously (  ) lol.

* Most Americans blame Vladimir Putin, oil companies for high gas prices: POLL *
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ame...utin-oil-companies-high-gas/story?id=83967683

I suspect the minority that disagrees, consists of Trump and his minions, all running around with their hair on fire, telling of gloom and doom if The Donald isn't able to acquire his throne in 2024 and save us from inflation.

The Donald is so honest, he was born with dark brown hair that turned orange for a while, then suddenly blond......and all of it naturally ....
( was going to mention the bankruptcies and impeachments.....but ....well....pretty much understood by everyone by now )
Gotta say, sometimes the comb-over is an obvious fail.



> In the ABC News/Ipsos poll, which was conducted by Ipsos in partnership with ABC News using Ipsos' KnowledgePanel, more than two-thirds of Americans blamed Putin (71%) and oil companies (68%) a "great deal" or a "good amount" for the increases in gas prices.


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> I just read that article. I wish I was in the study. I would have been in the group that was smart enough to not fall for the constant B.S. from CNN. All the study shows is that there are people that are gullible enough to be persuaded by the constant lies and distortions from CNN. The term for that is being easily brainwashed. You are obviously in that category.
> 
> What do you expect from a story published by network that is more dimwitted than CNN?


I, too, wish you had been in the study, cause you might make more sense in your post than parroting your fellow MAGA's. I, fortunately, don't have cable so I don't watch or have access to CNN / MSNBC / Fox /OAN / WND, etal. You, of all people, calling me gullible was truly amusing. Kinda like me being obtuse in your opinion. Makes me wonder if you can see your reflection in a mirror? You are one silly right wing goose.


----------



## Johnny b

Ed's not here for a discussion lol.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> I, too, wish you had been in the study, cause you might make more sense in your post than parroting your fellow MAGA's. I, fortunately, don't have cable so I don't watch or have access to CNN / MSNBC / Fox /OAN / WND, etal. You, of all people, calling me gullible was truly amusing. Kinda like me being obtuse in your opinion. Makes me wonder if you can see your reflection in a mirror? You are one silly right wing goose.


When I look in the mirror I see someone that is proud to be an American. That is more than I can say for you.😲


----------



## Johnny b

*
When I look in the mirror I see someone that is proud to be an Amerikan. That is more than I can say for you.😲
*

There's no 'k' in the America I believe in.


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> When I look in the mirror I see someone that is proud to be an American. That is more than I can say for you.😲


A proud American that supports an insurrection / fascism is an oxymoron. Quit the projection of your inner self onto others - normal amoral reaction of wingers toward anyone which they disagree. Amusing inane response from you on par.


----------



## Johnny b

It's not going well for the Bidens with news reports like this:

* New Hunter Biden revelations raise counterintelligence questions *
https://news.yahoo.com/new-hunter-b...counter-intelligence-questions-090046438.html

Interesting.
Harris doesn't seem to be involved.
There is mention of Trump and kids doing much the same as Hunter LOL!

related linkage:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/trump-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> A proud American that supports an insurrection / fascism is an oxymoron. Quit the projection of your inner self onto others - normal amoral reaction of wingers toward anyone which they disagree. Amusing inane response from you on par.


He hasn't introduced much into this thread, which he started.

There are developing issues that will make or break the Biden administration.
Ed seems to parrot the ones with the least credibility while proclaiming his patriotism.
All the while channeling Joe McCarthy with elitist rhetoric from Tucker Carlson, in order to support a national socialist movement.

Joe Biden's got some explaining to do.
Donald Trump has some court appointments to fulfill.

Joe's never tried to kill me. I respect him for that. 
( and that has been one of my main reasons I voted for Joe  )
And he's not that bad as politicians go.
The sedition and insurrection by Trump came after the election.
IMO, a good call on my part.


----------



## Wino

Wingers have spent so much time making mountains out of mole hills that I've pretty much ignore their rantings. In all honesty, the Hunter laptop is a non-issue IMO. About as important as Billy Carter pissing on his service stations wall after a night of imbibing.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Wingers have spent so much time making mountains out of mole hills that I've pretty much ignore their rantings. In all honesty, the Hunter laptop is a non-issue IMO. About as important as Billy Carter pissing on his service stations wall after a night of imbibing.


There is that, and Joe's not been linked to Hunter's misdeeds.

It's all about selling imagery.
Too many people forget, Trump is a real estate developer.
If you've ever dealt with one, you know they're expert at selling scenarios that often have no connections to reality other than how much they get out of them.
Trump's angle was coined 'The Art of the Deal'. 'Playing the Game'.

Trump was never a Democrat when he ran with them in his early days. It's been claimed he was even an Independent at one time.
And now a leading member of the Republican Party... unaware of the significance of Lincoln.
He's simply building an empire, telling people what they want to believe, at their own expense.
Most of what he supports, most of what he's done is simply cattywompas.
So much so it's even hurt his own empire financially.
In desperation, he seeks more power.

But have you noticed how strange his base has become?
True Believers. Lots of true believers convinced it's 'someone else's' fault for their station in life.


----------



## Johnny b

I suspect Ed will be siding with this also:

*US intel believes Putin might use Biden's support for Ukraine to justify future interference in American elections: report *
https://www.businessinsider.com/put...ons-because-biden-is-pro-ukraine-intel-2022-4



> Russian President Vladimir Putin might use US President Joe Biden's support of Ukraine as a pretext to interfere in American elections again, US intelligence officials warned on Saturday.
> 
> Speaking with The Associated Press, unnamed officials familiar with the matter said while there is not yet any evidence that Russia will interfere in another election, Putin might have an incentive to do so given Biden's pro-Ukraine stance.


Not a surprise.
Rather, a given.
Trump camp + Putin
Same old, same old.


----------



## Johnny b

Bringing some sanity to the gun violence problem:

*Biden to unveil new federal regulations targeting ghost guns amid rise of gun violence *
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...cohol-tobacco-firearms-explosives/9536498002/



> President Joe Biden will announce new federal regulations on Monday to rein in the use of untraceable firearms known as ghost guns that law-enforcement officers say are turning up frequently at crime scenes across the country.


A long time friend of mine is rather....well....a gun nut that still doesn't understand what the 2nd amendment, as written, addressed.
He had complained, in a sarcastic tone, why not thought police when we discussed how to restrict people with bad intentions.
Maybe he has a point. Unintended, of course.
There would be no licensing involved, just a psychological exam, pass/fail.
Seems fair to me 

Let the whining begin 

He also had an argument of why convicted felons should have the right to posses firearms.
I didn't bother with a rebuttal


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> A proud American that supports an insurrection / fascism is an oxymoron. Quit the projection of your inner self onto others - normal amoral reaction of wingers toward anyone which they disagree. Amusing inane response from you on par.


Everything you accuse me of is an absolute lie. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Democrat. After all it comes naturally to you.

On the other hand you support a political party that spent 4 years lying, cheating, and used the powers of the federal government in an attempt to take down a sitting President. That's why I will never again support the Democrat party. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did.

Biden has spent over a year now ignoring Federal law, ignoring Federal court orders, and having the nerve to lie about it. He did all that after putting his hand on a bible and swearing to uphold the Constitution. That sounds like impeachable offenses to me.

I think it rather ironic that Biden seemed so upset about Russia not respecting the sovereignty of the Ukrainian border. I wish he respected the sovereignty of the U.S. border. Since he is not doing that, that is another violation of his oath to defend the Constitution.

Since you support Biden you like a typical Democrat no longer supports the U.S. Constitution. How unpatriotic of you.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Everything you accuse me of is an absolute lie. I wouldn't expect anything less from a Democrat. After all it comes naturally to you.
> 
> On the other hand you support a political party that spent 4 years lying, cheating, and used the powers of the federal government in an attempt to take down a sitting President. That's why I will never again support the Democrat party. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did.
> 
> Biden has spent over a year now ignoring Federal law, ignoring Federal court orders, and having the nerve to lie about it. He did all that after putting his hand on a bible and swearing to uphold the Constitution. That sounds like impeachable offenses to me.
> 
> I think it rather ironic that Biden seemed so upset about Russia not respecting the sovereignty of the Ukrainian border. I wish he respected the sovereignty of the U.S. border. Since he is not doing that, that is another violation of his oath to defend the Constitution.
> 
> Since you support Biden you like a typical Democrat no longer supports the U.S. Constitution. How unpatriotic of you.


Everyone by now is aware you are a Trump camp follower.
That says it all, Ed.

Making up stories and ignoring challenges isn't wise in debates or discussions, in my humble opinion 

And you whine too much.


----------



## Johnny b

Speaking of Communism, did anyone recognize the Communist Red Star on that advanced Russian fighter jet that was recently shot down in Ukraine?










Looks like Trump's bud has a split personality.


----------



## Johnny b

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_star

Shame on Trump.

edit: You too, Ed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Everything you accuse me of is an absolute lie. ..............
> 
> I think it rather ironic that Biden seemed so upset about Russia not respecting the sovereignty of the Ukrainian border. ....................


Iriony?

It's no surprise you favor the Russians, Ed.
Trump and extremist rightwing news outlets favored them also.


----------



## Johnny b

So, Ed.

With Putin openly threatening to again influence our elections, how do you feel about that?


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Wingers have spent so much time making mountains out of mole hills that I've pretty much ignore their rantings. In all honesty, the Hunter laptop is a non-issue IMO. About as important as Billy Carter pissing on his service stations wall after a night of imbibing.


You are saying, "There's nothing to see here...move on". You should better practice your Jedi mind tricks. They're not working.


> Hunter Biden's access to lucrative financial opportunities also came with expectations - including kicking back as much as 50% of his earnings to his dad, text messages on his old laptop show.
> 
> "I hope you all can do what I did and pay for everything for this entire family for 30 years," Hunter Biden groused to daughter Naomi in January 2019. "It's really hard. But don't worry, unlike pop, I won't make you give me half your salary." Pop is Joe Biden.


Hunter Biden frequently covered family expenses, texts reveal
https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/hunter-biden-frequently-covered-family-expenses-texts-reveal/


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Hunter Biden frequently covered family expenses, texts reveal
> https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/hunter-biden-frequently-covered-family-expenses-texts-reveal/


Shameful...simply terribly shameful.

Maybe Hunter will eventually go to jail, but on the up side, he's never tried to kill me.
I know, sounds selfish to you wingers, just one of my own character flaws.

Can you explain why you support Trump's version of national socialism and the Russian authoritarianism?


----------



## Johnny b

Unbelievable:

* GOP Senate Candidate Compares Zelensky to Osama bin Laden *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-s...ompares-volodymyr-zelensky-to-osama-bin-laden

Shameful:



> U.S. Senate hopeful and bitcoin millionaire Bruce Fenton compared the widespread adoration of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to the reaction to Osama bin Laden, warning that bin Laden was also once seen as a "hero."
> 
> ........."there's so many parallels right now between Ukraine and the Taliban."
> 
> .........and said flatly that the U.S. government's appropriate response to the COVID-19 pandemic should have been "nothing."
> 
> .........In 2017, he left his home state of Massachusetts to join New Hampshire's Free State Project, a group of fringe libertarians who advocate for secession.


Trump would be proud.


----------



## Johnny b

Here it is Ed.
Where are you going to stand?

* Russia Airs Its Ultimate 'Revenge Plan' for America *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russi...venge-plan-for-2024-us-presidential-elections



> Russian state media seem to be in agreement that former U.S. President Donald Trump remains Moscow's candidate of choice.
> 
> The time is coming "to again help our partner Trump to become president," state TV host Evgeny Popov recently declared. On Thursday's edition of the state television show _The Evening With Vladimir Soloviev,_ Putin's pet pundits offered an update on plans for 2024.
> 
> Russian "Americanist" Malek Dudakov, a political scientist specializing in the U.S:........
> "The most banal approach I can think of is to invite Trump-before he announces he's running for President-to some future summit in liberated Mariupol."
> 
> Dudakov agreed: "Tulsi Gabbard would also be great. Maybe Trump will take her as his vice-president?" Gabbard has recently become a fixture of state television for her pro-Russian talking points, and has even been described as a "Russian agent" by the Kremlin's propaganda machine.


Ed, I don't like your version of 'Amerika'.


----------



## Wino

Guessing Fenton is vying for the Trump endorsement to the brotherhood. It's sad, but very amusing, watching the sycophants kissing the fat fleshy butt of the orange man plus the extreme contortions of reality they manufacture in their foaming at the mouth fealty to him.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> You are saying, "There's nothing to see here...move on". You should better practice your Jedi mind tricks. They're not working...........
> .......................


Interesting edit.

There hasn't been much to see in most of your posts, Ed....other than repetition and avoidance.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Guessing Fenton is vying for the Trump endorsement to the brotherhood. It's sad, but very amusing, watching the sycophants kissing the fat fleshy butt of the orange man plus the extreme contortions of reality they manufacture in their foaming at the mouth fealty to him.


The guy might look like a wealthy buffoon, but in times like now, very dangerous.
A lot of Trump mentality in him.
It appeals to weak minds and emotionalism.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ................
> 
> Hunter Biden frequently covered family expenses, texts reveal
> https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/hunter-biden-frequently-covered-family-expenses-texts-reveal/


You do realize I had already posted Hunter's problems a few posts earlier?

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/the-biden-thread.1273494/post-9891183

Notice the childishness of your source compared to a reasonable news outlet?

A difference, in my link it made a comparison you should be made aware of.

* New Hunter Biden revelations raise counterintelligence questions *
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/trump-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496

the difference: This linkage.

* How Trump fused his business empire to the presidency *
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/trump-businesses-empire-tied-presidency-100496

It pointed to even greater potential corruption in the Trump family.

Not millions as in the case with Hunter, billions in just one example with Trump's son-in-law....Kushner.

This just popped up:

* Before Giving Billions to Jared Kushner, Saudi Investment Fund Had Big Doubts *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/10/us/jared-kushner-saudi-investment-fund.html

Hunter......small beans, or as Wino put it, mole hills.
Trump's son-in-law, however, obviously mountains

Shocking, just shocking I tell you!


----------



## Johnny b

* Poll: Americans overwhelmingly support 6 Biden proposals to fight climate change *
https://news.yahoo.com/poll-america...posals-to-fight-climate-change-180802354.html



> When it comes to taking steps to fight climate change, Americans broadly support six key Biden administration proposals meant to transition the U.S. to renewable sources of energy, according to a Gallup poll released Monday.


----------



## Johnny b

Biden---Trump---and their Easter messages.

* Biden and Trump release very different Easter messages *
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0220417-eztaem4psjczjnv6akhipdknta-story.html

Biden invoked religious beliefs while the other, Trump, whined about politics and a stolen election.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...ij4vedggl2m-story.html#nt=interstitial-manual


> "Happy Easter to ALL, including the Radical Left CRAZIES who rigged our Presidential Election, and want to destroy our Country!" reads Trump's statement.


Trump....what a whiny loser.


----------



## Wino

The difference tween a real president and an orange telly tubby celeb. Should change his name to RuRu. A one trick pony for sure.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> The difference tween a real president and an orange telly tubby celeb. Should change his name to RuRu. A one trick pony for sure.


It's nice you have colorful names for the former president. Don't you have any names for the current President? Obviously you mustn't be saying that Biden is a real president. That's because Biden unlike a real president has a no spine, cares nothing about our country, and is as dumb as a pile of rocks. How can anyone support someone like that?

Maybe Biden's problem he is a no trick donkey. He better start coming up with some tricks because his BS is getting real deep. He's burying the Democrat party in doodoo right now.

It's ironic that the group that dislikes Biden the most are Hispanics. Only 26% of them currently say he is doing a good job.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> The difference tween a real president and an orange telly tubby celeb. Should change his name to RuRu. A one trick pony for sure.





> A one trick pony for sure


Probably. 
But he leads groups that have a common objective. 
Obviously....the end of elections representative of a public consensus.

There are smarter, more dangerous people in that pack, other than Trump, looking to take over his leadership role.

Biden will never be judged a good President. There are simply too many wrongs in a society that is unwilling to support solutions. Too much has gone unchecked and ignored in the past.
Extremism sells in times of ignorance, greed and entitlement.

Even our foreign enemies leverage those traits against us in their propaganda.
The Russians go as far as bragging about electing Trump in 2016 and will be doing it again in 2024 if Biden doesn't relent to their Ukrainian demands.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> It's nice you have colorful names for the former president. Don't you have any names for the current President? Obviously you mustn't be saying that Biden is a real president. That's because Biden unlike a real president has a no spine, cares nothing about our country, and is as dumb as a pile of rocks. How can anyone support someone like that?
> 
> Maybe Biden's problem he is a no trick donkey. He better start coming up with some tricks because his BS is getting real deep. He's burying the Democrat party in doodoo right now.
> 
> It's ironic that the group that dislikes Biden the most are Hispanics. Only 26% of them currently say he is doing a good job.


LOL!
Same old, same old Ed 

Really? Don't you have anything new to comment on?

How about your support of Vladimir Putin?
Biden has been very descriptive of his own position.
How about you, Ed?


----------



## Johnny b

Made you look


----------



## MisterEd51

There are plenty of solutions out there. The problem is all of Biden's supporters are as dumb as he is. Since you support Biden what does say about you?

Note that Putin was too afraid of Trump to attack Ukraine when he was President. Putin waited until feckless old Biden was President to do so. The problem with letting Putin invade Ukraine is that no matter what Biden does there are no winners. Tough spot for Biden to be in. The only winning move for Biden would have been to keep Putin from invading Ukraine in the first place. Too bad he doesn't have the stones to have done that.


----------



## Wino

Ed, you are a hoot!! You carry your animus on your sleeve, same as your idol donnie the dunce. Putti never feared DJT - ever !! They're both mentally unstable, which everyone should fear except their fellow psychopaths. What does that say about you??


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Ed, you are a hoot!! You carry your animus on your sleeve, same as your idol donnie the dunce. Putti never feared DJT - ever !! They're both mentally unstable, which everyone should fear except their fellow psychopaths. What does that say about you??


It only means I am crazy to reply to comments from people as stupid as you are.😧


----------



## Wino

Oh, my. Hit a tender spot?? Following link is a good read in the event you don't know what you are.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-lays-behind-the-hidden-suffering-of-the-psychopath


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Oh, my. Hit a tender spot?? Following link is a good read in the event you don't know what you are.
> 
> https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-lays-behind-the-hidden-suffering-of-the-psychopath


The problem with you is that there is no cure for stupid. That is why I can't provide a link for you to get help. You will just have to spend the rest of your life in ignorant bliss.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> There are plenty of solutions out there. The problem is all of Biden's supporters are as dumb as he is. Since you support Biden what does say about you?
> 
> Note that Putin was too afraid of Trump to attack Ukraine when he was President. Putin waited until feckless old Biden was President to do so. The problem with letting Putin invade Ukraine is that no matter what Biden does there are no winners. Tough spot for Biden to be in. The only winning move for Biden would have been to keep Putin from invading Ukraine in the first place. Too bad he doesn't have the stones to have done that.





> There are plenty of solutions out there. The problem is all of Biden's supporters are as dumb as he is. Since you support Biden what does say about you?


What does it say about me?....
I've posted my thoughts. I don't hide them.
And you have been avoiding me since at least since your very first post.
And that's significant because you started this thread 

What it says about me is I can drag your sorry heinie back into a conversation...at will lol!



> The problem is all of Biden's supporters are as dumb as he is.


Now, now...Ed.
The problem you face is that it's easy to demonstrate the ignorance of Trump and his followers with examples. 
Ed....you never seem to post examples....of anything....just bloviated BS.
And you do it repeatedly. 



> Note that Putin was too afraid of Trump to attack Ukraine when he was President.


Why do you make up the silliest scenarios?
It's rather obvious Putin wouldn't need a full scale war with Trump in power.
It would have been a 'walk in the park'.
And it's likely a big reason Russia wasn't as militarily prepared as it could have been.
Putin expected Trump to win a second term.
Playing a long game, Putin's plan was disrupted with a Biden win.
Old saying, use 'em or lose 'em'.
Yes, because Trump lost, Putin was now committed to a more forceful invasion of Ukraine.
While it's a war of attrition that favors Russia, Russian forces have been taking severe damage.
Putin's military was obviously ill prepared for such a large scale invasion.

Putin was never afraid of Trump. A second term with Trump would have made Russia's aggression less costly.

Please quit making things up.
You're debating adults.



> The problem with letting Putin invade Ukraine is that no matter what Biden does there are no winners.


Are you really that dense?
Russia has much to gain.
But I'll take your comment as support for the Russian invasion. ( ie 'It doesn't matter' )



> The only winning move for Biden would have been to keep Putin from invading Ukraine in the first place.


And now you argue in support of starting a war?
If that had happened, you'd be arguing that Biden's a war criminal :
So far, most of Europe is aligned with our position.
I suspect they wouldn't appreciate your insane position lol.
Ed wants WW3. ( sigh! )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The problem with you is that there is no cure for stupid. That is why I can't provide a link for you to get help. You will just have to spend the rest of your life in ignorant bliss.


Ed, you're becoming disrespectful (  )


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Oh, my. Hit a tender spot?? Following link is a good read in the event you don't know what you are.
> 
> https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-lays-behind-the-hidden-suffering-of-the-psychopath


That explains a lot


----------



## Wino

Ed, you are as predictable as sunrise and as unstable as Texas weather. I suspect you have been blissful your entire life. The old adage applies to you and your ilk:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

In spades.


----------



## MisterEd51

You would think that somebody like you would want to help poor old Biden. The problem is:
dumb + dumb = even more dumb

I ditched the Trump thread and started this one thinking I could get away from the low life there. How naive I was to think it wouldn't come here and bring the smell with it.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> You would think that somebody like you would want to help poor old Biden. The problem is:
> dumb + dumb = even more dumb


Ed.....I remember your math skills from a thread in Random.

Pretty sad.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................
> I ditched the Trump thread and started this one thinking I could get away from the low life there. How naive I was to think it wouldn't come here and bring the smell with it.


Yes, Ed......your thread stinks.


----------



## Wino

MisterEd51 said:


> You would think that somebody like you would want to help poor old Biden. The problem is:
> dumb + dumb = even more dumb
> 
> I ditched the Trump thread and started this one thinking I could get away from the low life there. How naive I was to think it wouldn't come here and bring the smell with it.


Naive is a blind devotion to a traitor / insurrectionist named Donald J. Trump; thinking you can post lies and alternate realities in a thread within Controversial Topics is way past dumb on a scale of 1-10, ten being max dumb, is about an 18+, in other words very odorous. I expect we have another 'stable genius' amongst the rabble of wingers.


----------



## Bastiat

MisterEd51 said:


> That's because Biden unlike a real president has a no spine, cares nothing about our country, and is as dumb as a pile of rocks. How can anyone support someone like that?


Guess they developed the habit with the 2016 election.


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Biden---Trump---and their Easter messages.
> 
> * Biden and Trump release very different Easter messages *
> https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0220417-eztaem4psjczjnv6akhipdknta-story.html
> 
> Biden invoked religious beliefs while the other, Trump, whined about politics and a stolen election.
> 
> https://www.nydailynews.com/news/po...ij4vedggl2m-story.html#nt=interstitial-manual
> 
> Trump....what a whiny loser.


This link made my day - emphasizes the difference in a mature adult and a man child. The meme depicted Jesus holding a red "Make America Great Again" hat with a caption that reads "Judas, you dropped your hat."

https://www.rawstory.com/monterey-county-health-department-trump-meme/

Oh, so very truthy.


----------



## MisterEd51

I left the Trump thread to get away from the BS about Trump. How about getting back on topic and sing your praises for Biden. I can sit back all all day and laugh about your blather about Biden.

Unless you stay on topic and keep your comments to about Biden and the current administration I will ask the moderator to close this thread. That should be no problem for you because you can go back to the Trump thread and blather about Trump all you want.

Alternately, I can keep this thread open and block you like I did Johnny b. That way I can keep on posting and only have to read your tripe if I want to.

Note I can't stop anyone from posting in any thread. However, I like every member of this forum has the right to block anyone I want.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ....................
> 
> Unless you stay on topic and keep your comments to about Biden and the current administration I will ask the moderator to close this thread. .....................


That's entirely up to you and your right to do so.

However, the politics of today include both Biden and Trump and often are intertwined.
Comparisons are likely to be made.

Same goes in the Trump thread.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...............
> 
> Alternately, I can keep this thread open and block you like I did Johnny b. That way I can keep on posting and only have to read your tripe if I want to.
> .......................


LOL!

When you put me on ignore, the only person that can't read my post....is...you!

I approve


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...........................
> 
> Note I can't stop anyone from posting in any thread. However, I like every member of this forum has the right to block anyone I want.


Happy days 
It's refreshing to come across a winger that knows their limitations


----------



## MisterEd51

I don't know what you posted and don't care to find out.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> This link made my day - emphasizes the difference in a mature adult and a man child. The meme depicted Jesus holding a red "Make America Great Again" hat with a caption that reads "Judas, you dropped your hat."
> 
> https://www.rawstory.com/monterey-county-health-department-trump-meme/
> 
> Oh, so very truthy.


Well, the timing was poor but the message spot on.
IMO, it's major flaw in many christian's beliefs. 
Combining politics and religion can and has had, bad side effects.
Trump didn't start it, but he certainly leveraged it to his own political advantage.
A lot of unnecessary deaths under the Trump administration ( Covid policy ) and needless brutal treatment of illegal immigrants.
Trump's actions too often were not in the realm of Christ's teachings while Trump's followers wrapped themselves in the American Flag and praised Trump as an emissary of God. 
Since Mr Ed demands mention of President Biden, It's refreshing that he is Christian and tries to address our problems in humane ways.

Simply put....there are a lot of members in the Christian community, but few that embrace what He taught.

And it's also the same situation today with the GOP.
A lot of members. But not many that believe in a republic whose representatives are chosen by the citizenry.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I don't know what you posted and don't care to find out.
> View attachment 295939




There's a lot you don't seem to know......


----------



## MisterEd51

For the 2020 election all Democrats knew this about Biden:

Has a no spine
Cares nothing about our country
Is as dumb as a pile of rocks
Is not Trump
One out of four was good enough for them.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> For the 2020 election all Democrats knew this about Biden:
> 
> Has a no spine
> Cares nothing about our country
> Is as dumb as a pile of rocks
> Is not Trump
> One out of four was good enough for them.


Repetition seems to be your friend.


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Repetition seems to be your friend.


Gotta give credit where credits due - the first three items describe Trump to a "T" as does the 4th considering he has the mentality and attractiveness of a xenomorph - ...... "are not sapient toolmakers -they lack a technological civilization of any kind, and are instead primal, predatory creatures, with no higher goal than the preservation and propagation of their own species by any means necessary, up to and including the elimination of other lifeforms that may pose a threat to their existence." Pretty much describes Trumpism.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> For the 2020 election all Democrats knew this about Biden:
> 
> Has a no spine
> Cares nothing about our country
> Is as dumb as a pile of rocks
> Is not Trump
> One out of four was good enough for them.


But what's your opinion about all the Independents and card carrying members of the Republican Party that found Biden good enough to be President?

You appear to have a shorter memory than I suspected.
I'm a member of the Republican Party. A long, long time member....even back when Trump was running with the liberal movers and shakers within New York society.

'Not Trump' did work for me.
And there was the imagery of the initial Trump pandemic response, initially denial, then proposing crazy medical solutions. Clorox cocktails and UV lightbulbs up the fanny did not impress me. Nor his Voodoo Priestess/medical advisor. Demon sperm and all.
He even claimed he was responsible for the mRNA vaccines....which were actually in development several decades earlier.

There were actually a lot of reasons I chose Biden when comparing him to Trump.
There a lengthy thread in this forum which details what Trump was.
Maybe you ought to read it?


----------



## Johnny b

Here's an interesting article for you, Ed.

* How Donald Trump Gets Away With Paying Less Income Tax Than Joe Biden *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-gets-away-paying-165238936.html

Biden pays his taxes while Trump gets wealthy not paying taxes.



> Biden's 2017 tax return showed $11,031,309 in adjusted gross income and a federal tax payment of $3,553,249. The New York Times reported that Trump only paid $750 in federal income taxes that year, the same as he paid in 2016.


Ed, I know math isn't your strong suit, but surely even you can see the gross disparity in taxation.

Here in Ohio, we have a 'dumb bunny' running for a US Senate seat that claims the middle class isn't paying it's fair share of Federal Income Taxes. Yeah...a Republican.
And in the coming primary, he's up against a Republican Marine whose answer to anything and everything is....'I support Trump, send in a Marine'. That makes 2 'dumb bunnies'.

Biden does appear to pay his 'fair share' of Federal Income Tax.
Donald obviously doesn't.

Does that bother you?


----------



## Johnny b

One of the biggest, most vicious haters of the Biden Administration faces further scrutiny in a bid for re-election.

* Attempt to bar Marjorie Taylor Greene from Congress can proceed, judge says *
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ngress-judge-14th-amendment-challenge-georgia



> Citing "a whirlpool of colliding constitutional interests of public import", Amy Totenberg of the northern district of Georgia sent the challenge on to a state hearing on Friday.
> ...............
> The amendment says: "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath … to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."





> In October, however, she told a radio show: "January 6 was just a riot at the Capitol and if you think about what our Declaration of Independence says, it says to overthrow tyrants."


Lawyers are sure to debate what that means in legalistic terms, but imo it's clear it was just rhetoric to rationalize the overthrow of a legally elected government that represented the will of the citizenry.


----------



## Wino

The only wannabe "tyrant" in DC at the time was Donnie the Insurrectionist putz. And I'm very sure MTG wasn't there to oust him.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> The only wannabe "tyrant" in DC at the time was Donnie the Insurrectionist putz. And I'm very sure MTG wasn't there to oust him.


Indeed.


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden has told Obama he's running again *
https://thehill.com/news/administration/3272281-biden-has-told-obama-hes-running-again/

( Ed....don't read this post. I fear you might hurt yourself  )


----------



## MisterEd51

For a long time I didn't understand why some people post here and insist on only talking about Trump. Now the only thing that makes sense is these same people simply want to change the subject because they know their Democrat party is so clueless that more and more people are turning against it every day. I should feel sorry for these people but am not. That is because if they were smart they would direct their energy at trying to stop their party in its descent into its chaos. Instead they waste their energy in their pointless name calling of their bogeyman called Trump. How pathetic How predicable.. How clueless.

BTW, I know you are going to want to respond and trash my comments. I really don't care because I have you all blocked so I won't see it anyways.

I just noticed that the post numbers I see jumped from 468 to 477. That means that the 8 posts in between were blocked. Keep wasting your time.


----------



## Wino

yada, yada, yada !! The only wasted time here is reading your whiney post excrement. If you can't take the heat, stay outta the kitchen !! 
BTW - sorry you're not gonna see my heart felt thank you for placing me on ignore. Reading your inane post is punishment enough.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> For a long time I didn't understand why some people post here and insist on only talking about Trump. Now the only thing that makes sense is these same people simply want to change the subject because they know their Democrat party is so clueless that more and more people are turning against it every day. I should feel sorry for these people but am not. That is because if they were smart they would direct their energy at trying to stop their party in its descent into its chaos. Instead they waste their energy in their pointless name calling of their bogeyman called Trump. How pathetic How predicable.. How clueless.
> 
> BTW, I know you are going to want to respond and trash my comments. I really don't care because I have you all blocked so I won't see it anyways.
> 
> I just noticed that the post numbers I see jumped from 468 to 477. That means that the 8 posts in between were blocked. Keep wasting your time.





> For a long time I didn't understand why some people post here and insist on only talking about Trump.


Because you have them on ignore and are unable to read their posts?
Could be 

LOL!



> Now the only thing that makes sense is .......


Ed, seriously....not much makes sense when you do start posting.
Just repetition and name calling.
I don't remember you backing up any of your extremist jargon.



> ........these same people simply want to change the subject because they know their Democrat party is so clueless that more and more people are turning against it every day. I should feel sorry for these people but am not.


Ed....there is no 'Johnny b's Democrat party. He's a member of the GOP LOL!
( And I've got the cards to prove it ! )



> I should feel sorry for these people but am not.


That made me laugh. :up:



> That is because if they were smart they would direct their energy at trying to stop their party in its descent into its chaos. Instead they waste their energy in their pointless name calling of their bogeyman called Trump. How pathetic How predicable.. How clueless.


Ed.....you're the only one whining.



> BTW, I know you are going to want to respond and trash my comments. I really don't care because I have you all blocked so I won't see it anyways.


Works for me. 



> I just noticed that the post numbers I see jumped from 468 to 477. That means that the 8 posts in between were blocked.


Only to you. 
You keep forgetting.....there is an audience 



> Keep wasting your time.


Did anyone ever explain to you that rightwing extremism is a mental disorder?

Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump!


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> yada, yada, yada !! The only wasted time here is reading your whiney post excrement. If you can't take the heat, stay outta the kitchen !!
> BTW - sorry you're not gonna see my heart felt thank you for placing me on ignore. Reading your inane post is punishment enough.


Ed's just looking for love in all the wrong places.

(  )


----------



## MisterEd51

When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. The zealots at Twitter took their marching orders and were glad to comply. That is soon to end with Elon Musk buying Twitter. Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. Of course the Democrats are all upset about this. The Democrats say they believe in free speech. The problem is they really only believe in free speech if they agree with it. Otherwise they want it shut down and silenced. I expect half of the Twitter employees will quit and many of the platforms members will close their accounts. I say good ridden. They won't be missed.

I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. You people are slipping.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................
> 
> I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. You people are slipping.


The audience didn't miss a thing


----------



## Wino

E Musk - new Minister of Propaganda. May as well change his name to Goebbels to better reflect his Trumpism. Free speech is one thing - freely lying is another - like shouting fire in a crowded theater.


----------



## Johnny b

Elon Musk only benefits Elon's empire.

I don't post on Twitter or any social media, but what happens on Twitter .....what ever it is, will be seen and read elsewhere too.

Twitter is all about attention and making a profit.

What little I've read on it, a lot is crude BS and both extremes are guilty.
No doubt Ed will be there 

I've read Trump was posting incredible numbers of tweets, but since kicked off Twitter, only one post at his own social media site.
If Trump does come back to Twitter, what would he have to post/tweet other than the hundreds of repetitions of lies already refuted in the mass media.
Nothing new, just more of the same insanity for his fan club.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. .................


Ed, you do this so often, it's difficult to tell whether you're ignorant or simply a habitual liar.

Biden not only didn't have anything to do with Trump being banned,
Biden wasn't the President at the time.
Trump was.
Biden had no power over Twitter, he was a civilian at the time.

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension

The date on Trump's suspension was January 8, 2021.

( Oh.....and I do think you are reading us  )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .....................................Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. Of course the Democrats are all upset about this. ...............................


Why in the world do you keep making yourself look foolish?
I know and I suspect Wino knows as well, you're only trolling us trying to get outrageous responses lol.

The Democrats, the NoTrump Republicans and Independents aren't upset.
All you had to do was wait a day or two to learn why by reading actual news articles.

* Trump insists he has no plans to rejoin Twitter even if Elon Musk reinstates his account *
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-elon-musk-rejoin-twitter-201822842.html

And from a financial pov, why would he support Twitter at a loss to his own venture into social media?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .....................................The Democrats say they believe in free speech. The problem is they really only believe in free speech if they agree with it. Otherwise they want it shut down and silenced. I expect half of the Twitter employees will quit and many of the platforms members will close their accounts. I say good ridden. They won't be missed.
> 
> .........................


Ed. I do find your contradictory logic amazing.

You argue Democrats are involved in censorship and at the same time approve of potential consequences.
.................

Personally, I've never been attracted to Twitter enough to join or follow.
IMO, largely a lot of emotionalism with out substance, and avoidance of rebuttal.
Much like what you are attempting. False feel good claims that go counter to reality.

Trump is a loser. You need to get over it. Biden won and Trump still rates as a worse President. And as a civilian, Trump has become an even more intensive loon.
His rally in Ohio was embarrassing.

* Trump fumes about dishwashers at Ohio rally and claims Americans are unable to use the bathroom properly due to low water pressure *
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-rants-about-dishwashers-at-ohio-rally-2022-4

And Trump wasn't even the worst of it!
His fan base is insane 

* Trump Rally-Goer Claims Princess Diana, Jackie O. 'Alive' and Ruling World *
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rally-goer-claims-princess-diana-jackie-o-alive-ruling-world-1700345


> An attendee of former President Donald Trump's Ohio rally on Saturday claimed that Princess Diana of Wales, former first lady Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis (often referred to as Jackie O.) and popstar Michael Jackson are "alive" and currently ruling the world.
> .............
> "Well, you know God speaks to us, right?" the woman answered. "There's ways that we can figure these things out."
> 
> ....................
> 
> Earlier this month at a North Carolina rally, a Trump supporter told an RSBN reporter that, "We're waiting for either God or the aliens." She then added, with a chuckle: "Or a nuke. I'll take one."


( and of course, too much to copy and paste lol )

Ed?......any of that sound familiar?

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-rally-goers-blast-demonic-media-await-god-aliens-1696663
( sigh! )
( lol! )


----------



## Johnny b

It appears some Democrats do worry over Trump rejoining Twitter .....apparently they don't believe Trump when he claims he won't.

* Biden officials worry Musk will allow Trump to return to Twitter *
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/25/mus...ials-worry-trump-will-return-to-platform.html

( solution, arrest Trump for sedition and insurrection )

It looks like the European Union is dead set against allowing Trump and his threat actors into their realm, through Twitter.

* EU warns Elon Musk over Twitter moderation plans *
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...usk-over-twitter-moderation-plans/?comments=1

BTW, Bill Gates is shorting Tesla stock and Elon seems pretty ticked off about it.
Interesting timing 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/elo...nfronted-bill-gates-about-shorting-tesla.html


----------



## Wino

I like your solution!!


----------



## Bastiat

If Bill Gates is shorting Twitter stock that is a reasonable bet.


----------



## Johnny b

Here's the twist I was waiting for ...the Chinese connection.

When Ed welcomed Musk's ownership of Twitter, Ed also invited Chinese influence.

Tesla manufactures cars in China, to the effect China is it's second biggest market and it's dependent upon Chinese batteries.
And since China is still a communist nation, it has absolute influence within it's borders, and that includes foreign manufacturers doing business 'in country'.

Bezos seems to think China might have some influence ( nefarious of course  ) in Twitter by way of Tesla.

* Why Bezos is worried that a Musk-owned Twitter will cave to China *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-...ned-twitter-will-cave-to-china-163309580.html

A lot to read but this stands out:


> If Musk depends on China to help bolster Tesla's sales, Chinese officials could theoretically pressure him to censor anti-Chinese government content or risk losing the ability to operate openly in the country. ( edit: Gates, you crafty son of a gun lol no wonder Elon got ticked off )


Imagine that.....to come back to Twitter, Trump might have to support the Chinese....if the price is right, of course.
Well, he did sell out to the Russians, so why not his other favorite 'President for Life'?

Thank goodness Ed has this blocked, he'd be devastated. 
Just keep up the 'denial', Ed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .......................... Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. Of course the Democrats are all upset about this. ........................
> 
> I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. You people are slipping.


This may be the 'Biden' thread, but you Ed the thread starter, opened the door to Musk and Twitter involvement.

Previously it was noted that China might have an interest in controlling Twitter content through it's association with Musk's auto interests in China.

Now it appears this 'new' Twitter under Musk will likely have a negative effect on Trump's own social media site, Truth Social.

Something to consider:
With Trump joining Twitter, who controls him? Musk? or the Chinese Government?

* Musk buying Twitter could wreck Trump's social-media company *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-could-kill-trumps-social-media-company-161927167.html


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I like your solution!!


Yeah...but it recently got moved to the Trump thread. lol.

Anyways.....since Ed opened the door to Twitter, Musk and inferred Trump's supposed privileges there....this article becomes interesting.

Musk's definition of 'Free speech' probably isn't what Ed was thinking of.

* Elon Musk, Twitter's next owner, provides his definition of "free speech" *
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...owner-provides-his-definition-of-free-speech/



> By "free speech," I simply mean that which matches the law. I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law.
> If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect. Therefore, going beyond the law is contrary to the will of the people.
Click to expand...

In the end, Musk will probably do what ever he damn well pleases, as long as it makes him the most profit, that is.


----------



## Couriant

Please t****s app is already trashed …


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> Please t****s app is already trashed …


I hadn't realized it was this bad:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/27/technology/personaltech/truth-social-review-trump.html


----------



## Couriant

Johnny b said:


> I hadn't realized it was this bad:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/27/technology/personaltech/truth-social-review-trump.html


From what I heard T**** himself barely post in there


----------



## Johnny b

Couriant said:


> From what I heard T**** himself barely post in there


I've read he's posted only once.
But that was several days ago.


----------



## Johnny b

I couldn't resist


----------



## Wino

C'mon!!! Etch a Sketch is way over his intellect.


----------



## Johnny b

Trump and his GOP cronies give away $700 million of the taxpayers money on just a single known fraudulent pandemic loan, but Biden gets little to no support in rebuilding the US.

MAGA....translation: We can steal from you with impunity.

* Trump Officials Awarded $700 Million Pandemic Loan Despite Objections *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/27/us/politics/trump-pandemic-loan-yrc.html


----------



## Johnny b

Elon Musk, savior of free speech, also wants to buy Coca Cola.
And his reason, to put cocaine back into the drink.

Hard to believe, but it's being reported at multiple news sites.

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/musk-tweets-hell-buy-coca-cola-next?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets...s-including-coca-cola-to-add-back-the-cocaine

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-wants-to-buy-coke-put-cocaine-back-in-2022-4

Ed really knows how to pick the winners


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. The zealots at Twitter took their marching orders and were glad to comply. That is soon to end with Elon Musk buying Twitter. Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. Of course the Democrats are all upset about this. The Democrats say they believe in free speech. The problem is they really only believe in free speech if they agree with it. Otherwise they want it shut down and silenced. I expect half of the Twitter employees will quit and many of the platforms members will close their accounts. I say good ridden. They won't be missed.
> 
> I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. You people are slipping.


Of course, this post is another one you won't be reading ( according to you ).
But other members and readers will.

Look who's cheering Musk:

* QAnon conspiracists and far-right influencers are celebrating Elon Musk buying Twitter *
https://www.businessinsider.in/inte...-musk-buying-twitter/articleshow/91110567.cms

And now Elon appears to want to become a drug dealer.
Popular guy.
Like Trump, he knows his audience well.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. The zealots at Twitter took their marching orders and were glad to comply. That is soon to end with Elon Musk buying Twitter. Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. Of course the Democrats are all upset about this. .............................


A closer look.

Predictable.

And predicted.

It's not about freedoms, it's about profits 

* Elon Musk suggested firing workers and working with influencers to boost Twitter's bottom line: reports *
https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-suggested-firing-workers-094500050.html



> In conversations with bankers before he took Twitter private, Elon Musk suggested cutting workers, inviting influencers to create content, and introducing subscription services to improve Twitter's bottom line, according to multiple news reports on Friday.
> ............
> Even though Musk floated these ideas to bankers to improve Twitter's bottom line, he did not include them in the formal plans that were presented to Twitter's board, Bloomberg and the Post reported. Instead, he said he would make sure the deal is profitable, sources told Bloomberg.





> ............ inviting influencers to create content ..........


Translation: 'building a propaganda machine to create profit'.

Just like what Trump tried to do.


----------



## MisterEd51

The Department of Home Security (DHS) is setting up a new Disinformation Governance Board. Nina Jankowicz will be the executive director of the board.

Jankowicz is a natural to head this board since she championed misinformation like the Russia Dossie and the Russian connection to Hunter's laptop. She should find it easy to shovel the BS her job will require.

Required reading for members of the Disinformation Governance Board is George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four (aka 1984). The books Ministry of Truth will serves as a model for how the board will function.

The timing of the creation of this board is probably in response to Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter. The Democrats obviously think they need to counter the mere threat of free speech.

This board will institutionalize Biden's unconstitutional directives at Social Media's to control speech judged to be not in line with the governments viewpoint.

Since the existence of the Disinformation Governance Board is contrary to the First Amendment it is only a matter of time before it is challenged in court. This could easily end up going all the way to the Supreme Court where it will be soundly deemed Unconstitutional. Of course Biden and the Democrats know this but don't care. They hope it is around long enough to help them with the 2022 midterms and 2024 elections.

According to New York Times Magazine writer Emily Bazelon "Unfettered Free Speech Is A Threat To Democracy". What she really means is that Democrats think that free speech like democracy needs to be controlled to insure that they are elected.


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden in denial as border crisis escalates due to his rhetoric and immigration policies
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/15/biden-in-denial-as-border-crisis-escalates-due-to-/


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The Department of Home Security (DHS) is setting up a new Disinformation Governance Board. Nina Jankowicz will be the executive director of the board.
> 
> Jankowicz is a natural to head this board since she championed misinformation like the Russia Dossie and the Russian connection to Hunter's laptop. She should find it easy to shovel the BS her job will require.
> ..............................
> ............................


I smell fear in the world of Trumpism. lol!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden in denial as border crisis escalates due to his rhetoric and immigration policies
> https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/15/biden-in-denial-as-border-crisis-escalates-due-to-/


Biden denies nothing. He simply has no solution.
Obviously, the torture and abuse policies of the Trump era aren't a consideration.


----------



## Johnny b

Something new concerning the 'New' Twitter.

It appears acts like soliciting for an assassination may not be censured in the future.

https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-vehemently-opposed-trump-231611763.html



> The Journal reported that right-wing Holocaust skeptic Charles Johnson, who was permanently suspended from Twitter in 2015 after soliciting donations for "taking out" a Black Lives Matter activist, recently asked Birchall about regaining access to his account.
> 
> "When do I get my Twitter account back?" Johnson asked via text.
> 
> "Hopefully soon," Birchall responded.


Birchall: 
https://golden.com/wiki/Jared_Birchall-99M9PX3


> Jared Birchall is the CEO of Neuralink, a neurotechnology company founded by Elon Musk. He is also the managing director of Musk's family office, Excession LLC.


Birchall manages Musk's wealth through Excession.
https://andsimple.co/cases/elon-musks-family-office-and-excession-llc/

Holocaust skeptic Charles Johnson is also tied to Matt Gaetz.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/01/state-of-the-union-matt-gaetz-charles-johnson

This is looking ugly.


----------



## Johnny b

Neuralink.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink

With all the misinformation generated, it is rather humorous that those creating the lies support a leading advocate of inserting computer controls in humans.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. .....................


An interesting article on Yahoo News.

* Exclusive: Russian media's reach in U.S. limited after invasion, DHS document says *
https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-ru...ter-invasion-dhs-document-says-212208772.html



> Russia's invasion of Ukraine has curtailed the reach of Russian state media in the U.S., forcing the Kremlin to use other avenues to reach Americans and other Western audiences, according to a recent Department of Homeland Security intelligence assessment obtained by Yahoo News.
> 
> The war, along with Russian media's coverage of it, "has spurred Western governments, social media companies, and individuals to limit or disengage from Russian state media outlets, likely degrading many outlets' ability to directly message to Western audiences through 2022," states the April 22 DHS bulletin, produced in coordination with the Defense Intelligence Agency.


And now we see commentary about 'freedom of speech' from many supportive of, or at least, aligned with the Jan6th Insurrection.

They speak of Amendment Rights and free speech, but are they really just a 5th column, supportive of an enemy?
Under Trump, Russian propaganda was rampant.
With Biden as President and Russia tied up with a war in Ukraine, Russian efforts in the US have been reduced as our 2022 elections approach.
And the MAGA element complains.


----------



## Johnny b

And another thing........

If free speech is so important to the MAGA facistists, why do they object to truths being told about slavery and discrimination in the history of US?

Ed?


----------



## Johnny b

* Fact Check: Elon Musk Buying Twitter Led White House to Target Section 230 *
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check...er-led-white-house-target-section-230-1701449

False.


----------



## Johnny b

Good grief 

The more I read of Musk, the more unstable he appears, and it's nothing new.

Musk, the darling child of the MAGA GOP is quoted in Bloomberg from a recent Tweet:



> "I strongly supported Obama for President, but today's Democratic Party has been hijacked by extremists."


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...witter-spat-after-rebuttal-from-ocasio-cortez

What the hell? LOL!!

Me thinks Elon has smoked one too many blunts.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of ..................
> 
> ..................................
> 
> ......................
> 
> I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. .................


Twitter again. You don't get to read it because you censored everyone that disagrees with you .....

Ex-drug addict Mike 'pillows for brains' Lindell is in the news ...again.

* MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell was re-banned from Twitter 3 hours after returning to the platform since his initial ban in 2021 *
https://news.yahoo.com/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-banned-223302604.html

:up:


----------



## Wino

Dang!! That Brandon guy is having a good time !! 



> Republicans have shown their laissez faire attitude toward democracy in numerous ways, starting with passing bills across the country restricting the right to vote. Then there's their penchant for denying the results of the 2020 election, or opposing the bipartisan commission to investigate the storming of the Capitol on January 6, an effort designed to undermine the electoral process altogether.





> President Biden's infrastructure bill is already delivering: The bill has created jobs and is already fixing roads, bridges and railways. It's already bringing clean drinking water to some of the poorest communities and building access to high-speed internet across the country.


https://www.newsweek.com/theres-no-...only-side-defending-democracy-opinion-1702290



> Finally, we must remind Americans what Republicans stand for: a whole lot of nothing. Nothing good, at least. The Republicans are the party of January 6, of banning Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools where it's not taught, and of anti-gay legislation that addresses "problems" that don't exist.


Being a Biden hater and a Trump lover must really suck !!


----------



## Johnny b

Good morning Wayne.

I read and watch the efforts of the Ukrainians to remain free. Very united. Fiercely would be correct.

But of the Trump/MAGA mentality....who defends our own society?
Leaders of militant militias have begun pleading guilty of sedition and insurrection?
The same people claiming their right to defend a legal government while destroying it?
Legislators in our Congress that pontificate on their rights while attacking the mechanism that gives them and our citizenry, those rights?
News outlets that run parallel to enemy nations as propaganda outlets?

Add in a class of elitists that believe in entitlements derived from race and religion and masses of the ignorant who base their logic and decisions on emotion derived from the propaganda of the day.....where is unity, the will for a free society to exist?

During the Trump years, the US lost it's place as a world leader. Politically and economically.
Medical science became almost an after thought that even included denials initially, of a pandemic. Under Trump, the US led the world in Covid deaths while insane solutions were promoted.
Recently I read of Trump, while President, trying to authorize the killing of protesters using US Armed forces.
And we've read in the past how our military leaders had to secretly conspire to deny Trump starting a nuclear war with China.
And we, as a nation, watched Trump try to overthrow our own government because he lost re-election. We're now reading details of the support he had in Congress.

Biden may make a few gaffs now and then, but he's loyal to a healthy free society.
He's not perfect, no man is.
But he does not embrace the dark side of humanity as Trump did seeking power, and continues to do.


There are simply too many people in the US that do not want a free society to continue.


After Biden's term/s....who leads us next?

That's looking pretty grim.


----------



## Wino

Grim is an understatement. The following link is a long read and does not bode well for the nation. As it points out, both political parties have been struck with stupidity, but the only party that stands for democracy is Democrat. Republicans are the neo nazis fascist and Trumpism is but a veneer from Hitlerism.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/



> Only within the devoted conservatives' narratives do Donald Trump's speeches make sense, from his campaign's ominous opening diatribe about Mexican "rapists" to his warning on January 6, 2021: "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."


----------



## Brigham

What do the Biden followers think about the Hunter Biden laptop contents? I am given to understand that none of the MSM have had anything to say about it.


----------



## Johnny b

Brigham said:


> What do the Biden followers think about the Hunter Biden laptop contents? I am given to understand that none of the MSM have had anything to say about it.


So far, all the evidence on the laptop concerns Hunter.
Unproven speculation makes claims of involvement of his father.

Hunter was deeply involved in drug abuse and prostitutes.
To find out how much, I had to search foreign news outlets, finding an Australian one that seemed reputable, it exposed how depraved he'd been.
I suspect he was involved in many criminal activities not found or published by any source.

I don't remember any US news media going indepth on all the history of Hunter's exploits.
The right focuses on Ukraine and China activities while the left distances Hunter from his father.

Hunter never held a public office and there has been no evidence on the laptop connecting Joe to his son's activities.

IMO, the rightwing news outlets ignored the depths of Hunter's drug addiction because it explains away his actions. He's a drug addict.
Mainstream saw little newsworthy on a national level, the chain of custody was questionable and the laptop was discovered during a time of intense Russian influence.
Plus, Hunter hadn't held a public office and wasn't running for one.

Hunter is a 'bad seed'.

What can Hurt Joe Biden is his support of 'the right to abortions'.
I'm surprised Ed hasn't brought it up.


----------



## Wino

I'm not a Biden follower outside of his being our current president. I would have preferred several others on the left, but he isn't Trump crazy and that's a good thing. 
Hunter's laptop is a nothing burger plus neither Hunter or Joe have committed any crimes against democracy, supported no domestic insurrections or tried to overthrow an legit US elections.


----------



## MisterEd51

Brigham said:


> What do the Biden followers think about the Hunter Biden laptop contents? I am given to understand that none of the MSM have had anything to say about it.


Don't expect anybody to respond. Since the Hunter laptop came to light anybody that was paying attention knew there was something to it. The problem was that the MSM and the Democrats did everything they could to bury the story. As the FBI and federal prosecutors continue with the investigation and probable indictments the MSM is only slowly acknowledging the laptops existence. It will interesting to see what the MSM says if it is proven that Hunter's corruption can be linked to his father.

BTW, Democrat's think they are superior and feel they must win by any means necessary. That means lying, cheating, and criminal activity is no big deal.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Don't expect anybody to respond. ...............


<playing background music for The Twilight Zone>


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .............Since the Hunter laptop came to light anybody that was paying attention knew there was something to it. ......................


Yes. And you linked to an article previously as 'evidence' which presented the claim there was no evidence in the laptop that connected Joe to his son's activities.
Since you put everyone that disagrees on ignore, you don't feel you need to address your errors in cognitive reasoning.

Ed, you live in ignorance


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ......................
> 
> BTW, Democrat's think they are superior and feel they must win by any means necessary. That means lying, cheating, and criminal activity is no big deal.


Thank you.

I'm still a registered Republican and did vote on the 3rd in the Ohio primary..... 

BTW, Qanon, MAGA fascists, Libertarian anarchists, white supremacists, Neo-Nazis, Tea Party and Dixiecrat Republicans think they are superior and feel they must win by any means necessary. That means lying, cheating, and criminal activity is no big deal.

There also seems to be a lot of perversion within those groups.

I remember a time when Conservatives were conservative LOL!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. The zealots at Twitter took their marching orders and were glad to comply. That is soon to end with Elon Musk buying Twitter. Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. ..............
> 
> .....................


It's looking like Musk has partners in the deal and there may be concerns over potential foreign influence and National Security.
A lot of Saudi money innolved.

https://www.reuters.com/business/mu...ould-draw-tiktok-like-us-scrutiny-2022-05-06/
But here's a twist....it was Trump that tried to silence TicTok. And Biden reversed the decision.

( https://www.reuters.com/technology/...investors-including-larry-ellison-2022-05-05/ )


----------



## Johnny b

A little more on Musk:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...ger-national-security-review-of-twitter-deal/



> While Musk has said he's buying Twitter to protect free speech, both Saudi Arabia and Qatar impose heavy restrictions on speech. Last month Musk questioned Saudi Arabia's treatment of journalistic free speech in a tweet responding to Al Waleed bin Talal, who initially opposed Musk's purchase of Twitter.
> 
> But Musk's explanation of his free speech views suggests that he doesn't oppose government-imposed restrictions on speech. "By 'free speech,' I simply mean that which matches the law," Musk wrote. "I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law. If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect."


Translation: Free speech is only what a government allows.
Brought to you by Elon Musk and Trump's horde of insurgents.


----------



## Johnny b

Elon Musk.....free speech is what the laws allow, if you want less free speech just make it illegal.

The question arises....how well is that working out in Russia?
Russia, the fascist nation at war with the Ukraine, the fascist nation that promoted Donald Trump in the 2016 election with lies and misrepresentations, that supported the lies of Donald Trump and his own radicalized insurgents. 
Russia, the fascist nation at war with free speech, democracy and free will.
Russia, the friend of the current GOP, the friend of Trumpian fascism ( aka MAGA. white supremacists, nationalists, Dixiecrats, Libertarian anarchists, Qanon cultists, Neo-Nazis, rightwing militias, and rightwing extremist religious cults )

This is Russia.
The same goals of Trumpism. Authoritarian rule.
And it's done with lies, misrepresentation and brutality.
All traits of the Trump led GOP.

* The Legal Death of Free Speech in Russia*
https://www.ejiltalk.org/the-legal-death-of-free-speech-in-russia/

It's a long read.
Bottom line: 
Rule by making Lies and misrepresentations legal and anything rebutting them illegal.

I still think Musk is only an opportunist, but his position does compliment the enemy.

There was a time when communists in the US had to register.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954
And it was unconstitutional.

But from a pragmatic point of view, why shouldn't those followers of Trumpian fascism ( MAGA. white supremacists, nationalists, Dixiecrats, Libertarian anarchists, Qanon cultists, Neo-Nazis, rightwing militias, and rightwing extremist religious cults ) .....be made to register as enemies of the state? They've already committed sedition and insurrection and implied a civil war is necessary to abolish the 2 party system.
Unconstitutional? 
Well....with the Trumpian influence in the Supreme Court....probably 
...................

No doubt, the following offense would be a favorite of the current GOP:
( newspeak.....1984.... all over again )



> Then we come to the new 'fake news' offence in Article 207.3 CC, which follows on two similar mis/disinformation offences (Arts. 207.1 and 207.2) introduced during the Covid-19 pandemic. The new crime punishes the 'public dissemination, under the guise of a truthful message, of knowingly false information including facts on the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the purpose of protecting the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens, maintaining international peace and security.' The ordinary form of the offence (para. 1) is punishable by a 500,000 ruble fine and up to 3 years of imprisonment. A stricter form of the offence (para. 2) applies if it is committed in various circumstances, including by a group of persons or out of profit motives, and is punishable by a fine of up to 5 million rubles and from 5 to 10 years of imprisonment. And a third, strictest form of the offence applies (para. 3) if the dissemination of false information causes (entirely undefined) 'grave consequences' (_тяжкие последствия_), with the only penalty being 10 to 15 years of incarceration.


Yup.....freedom of speech, Trump style.
Just legalize what can and can not be said, to hell with 'truth'.

Abraham Lincoln, credited as founder of the Republican Party, freed the slaves.
Abraham Lincoln fought to maintain a united republic based on democratically elected representatives.
Look at what Trumpism has done to us.
It's taking a Democrat to continue what Lincoln strove to achieve.

The new GOP seems to be comprised of liars and perverts. Entitled elitists.


----------



## Johnny b

More on Musk.
Opportunist?
Art of the deal?

* Investors think unlikely Musk buys Twitter at agreed $44 bln price*
https://www.reuters.com/technology/...-buys-twitter-agreed-44-bln-price-2022-05-10/



> May 10 (Reuters) - The stock market took the view for the first time on Tuesday that it was unlikely that Elon Musk will acquire Twitter Inc (TWTR.N) for $44 billion, as he originally agreed.
> 
> The implied probability of the deal closing at that price fell below 50% when Twitter shares hit $46.75, based on the $54.20 deal price..........


----------



## Johnny b

More on Musk.
An opportunist?

* U.S. judge says Musk recklessly tweeted that 'funding secured' for taking Tesla private*
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ding-secured-taking-tesla-private-2022-05-11/



> San Francisco-based U.S. District Judge Edward Chen's pre-trial decision represented a major victory for investors in a lawsuit accusing the world's richest person of inflating stock prices by making false and misleading statements, causing billions of dollars in damages.


Shocking! Just shocking. 

Freedom of speech issues? ( lol )


----------



## MisterEd51

Biden's magical thinking on inflation continues
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/11/inflation-biden-wishful-thinking/


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> Biden's magical thinking on inflation continues
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/11/inflation-biden-wishful-thinking/


It's an opinion piece and there is a lot to it.
IMO, Biden doesn't have many options and at the same time has to work with an opposition party that's focused on winning the coming mid terms, so they aren't inclined to be helpful.

Any forward thinking person would have realized the status Trump left was only going to cause intense financial pain with increased moral and ethical deterioration. 
Any one reading the Trump thread and understanding the implications of Trump's actions was well advised as to their future.

Grim.

And as I've stated else where, it's likely to get worse. The damage done is now being realized.

This path to destruction was chosen long before Trump. He simply had the greatest impact.
Your comfy ride is ending, Ed.
You may have to come out of retirement to survive.
For me, I'm prepared. I was taught never to trust my future to Social Security.
So I didn't.



> It's wishful thinking that inflation is going to come down much by Election Day. To show voters he is on top of the problem, Mr. Biden needs to do more than blame someone else for high prices.


The magic wand doesn't involve electing MAGA fascism or leftwing socialism.
It's going to take a public mind set that involves 'critical thinking' and what used to be called the 'Protestant work ethic'.
There are too many leeches and entitled elitists.

The US has been going 3rd world for decades, riding on past laurels and bragging as if they are still in effect.
MAGA.....make america great again.....brought to us by a man determined to undermine our culture to achieve his own power.

There isn't going to be an instant fix.
There isn't going to be a fix before the mid-terms.
If a fix can be agreed to and supported, completion/correction is more like a decade or two away.
Some will feel good in short order. But I suspect they already feel good the way things are going.

Still have me on ignore? ( LOL!.... )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> When the 1st Amendment stood in the way of Biden stifling political opposition he turned to social media to do the dirty work for him. The zealots at Twitter took their marching orders and were glad to comply. That is soon to end with Elon Musk buying Twitter. Musk has promised to make Twitter a free and open platform. .......................
> 
> I see that there were only 3 blocked posts since the last time I posted. You people are slipping.


lol.
Promises, promises.....

* Musk shelves $44-billion Twitter deal 'temporarily', shares slump *
https://www.reuters.com/technology/musk-says-44-billion-twitter-deal-hold-2022-05-13/



> Twitter shares fell 17.7% to $37.10 in premarket trading, their lowest level since Musk disclosed his stake in the company in early April and subsequently made a "best and final" offer to take it private for $54.20 per share.
> 
> ..........................So it may well be more part of the strategy to lower the price," Susannah Streeter, an analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown.


Interesting.
Musk, The new master of 'The Art of the Deal'.

But he can never become President under the existing Constitution


----------



## Wino

Musk is just another grifter IMHO. If this deal doesn't go thru, he's out a billion $ - which he probably wouldn't pay. Not unlike his orange buddy. My personal thought is Tesla i.e. Musk et al is nothing more than a house of cards akin to bitcoin. From cars to rockets to twitter. Probably the new ENRON.


----------



## Johnny b

I suspect Musk will call fraud on the number of fake accounts and, no doubt, his lawyers stuck in an escape clause.
Will he duck the buyout or just renegotiate?

I don't care.
Trump and his fascist crews are already active elsewhere. And that's where his admirers congregate.
It's already been reported even Trump's new 'Truth' forum has already delved into censorship.

For Musk, it's most likely just an advertising platform where anything goes......that's legal ( lol )


As far as a Twitter format, we already have a relative newbie using it here to avoid discussions and debate 
He cries the pains of censorship while refusing to converse. 
It's like....we can't get the poor dear to explain himself. Sad. 
So much pent up anger and all we get?
Whining. 
When I'm out driving, I hear a lot of that on rightwing talk radio.


----------



## Wino

I pity you, Sir!! I haven't listened to a radio in about 4-5 years (outside of a NOAA weather report). My old F150 radio crapped out about 5 years ago and I never replaced or repaired. In house, haven't used am/fm at all. Dropped cable when DJT was elected and haven't missed it at all - no more 24/7 365/366 talking heads - has been kind to my BP, too!! If 51 truly had any horse sense, he'd do the same, just to save what sanity he may have left.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> I pity you, Sir!!....


lol.

It's how I comment on Ed's posts so quickly......I hear it first on the radio and I'm instantly prepared


----------



## Wino

Listening to RWNC radio could very well turn your brain to mush as evidenced by some post made herein, so be careful, my friend!!


----------



## Johnny b

Good advice....but 'I have an inquiring mind and I want to know'.

Yikes!


----------



## Johnny b

This certainly isn't going to improve Biden's image ....and I think he's wrong on this.
Corporations should pay an appropriate amount of income tax, but that's little to nothing to do with inflation. 
More like 'nothing'.

His tweet:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525234935346483210


> You want to bring down inflation?
> 
> Let's make sure the wealthiest corporations pay their fair share.


----------



## Wino

Agreed. Corp. taxes has nothing to do with inflation, other than increasing the inflation rate when corps. pass their additional taxes thru to consumers whist maintaining their bottom line and millions of $$$ for CEO's.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Agreed. Corp. taxes has nothing to do with inflation, other than increasing the inflation rate when corps. pass their additional taxes thru to consumers whist maintaining their bottom line and millions of $$$ for CEO's.


Are you suggesting to buy foreign made products to fight inflation? lol!


----------



## Johnny b

Even Trump thinks Musk is nuts for buying Twitter.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-musk-won-t-154408317.html

And here is Elon's out:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...-team-told-him-he-violated-an-nda-2022-05-15/



> Musk tweeted https://bit.ly/3sA0dhm during the early hours of Sunday that he is yet to see "any" analysis that shows that the social media company has fake accounts less than 5%.
> 
> He later said that "There is some chance it might be over 90% of daily active users."


Translation....a lot to do about nothing.


----------



## Johnny b

Maybe Musk should be looking to buy out a telecommunications network instead?

Here a choice one to consider:


----------



## Wino

Johnny b said:


> Are you suggesting to buy foreign made products to fight inflation? lol!


We currently are - nothing changed in that regard when tariffs started - just prices increased for consumers.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> We currently are - nothing changed in that regard when tariffs started - just prices increased for consumers.


It is difficult to buy a greater percentage of imports versus domestic.
First, retail markets are and have been comprised largely with foreign made.
Second, Covid has been destructive to foreign manufacturing as well.
Supply/demand issues have been building up and are driving inflation since Covid struck.

And there's the energy issue with the Russian/Ukrainian war creating world distribution issues.
Oil and heating fuel, obviously.
There are also signs of agriculture under duress.
The ag industry is dependent upon energy in ways many don't realize.
It's more than just fuel for machinery, the nitrates and fertilizers consumed use intense amounts of energy in their creation.

Pelosi is trying to push a freeze on energy profits.
It will likely fail, but even if it doesn't, it'll probably reduce production and productivity at a time when increases are necessary.
It doesn't matter what a product costs if there aren't enough available to buy.

Wayne, a 'perfect storm' approaches.

The US Postal Service had a food drive yesterday.
I think hunger is going to be getting a lot of press in the near future.

Biden will get the blame.
But he's not the cause.
And extremists like Trump seeking power only make it worse.


----------



## Johnny b

Back to Musk 

* What if Elon Musk's Twitter Grab Is All 'a Big Fugazi'? *
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-...-big-fugazi?via=rss&source=articles_fancylink



> CNBC contributor Dan Nathan joins the latest New Abnormal to explain why he thinks Musk has "used it as a big ruse, as an excuse to sell a lot of Tesla stock."





> "My big issue with this is I think it's all a big fugazi. I think that he's used it as a big ruse, as an excuse to sell a lot of Tesla stock, which he has done. He started selling last fall. He put out a tweet saying, 'Should I sell Tesla stock to pay taxes?' Then he put out a tweet a couple months ago, 'Should I sell Tesla stock to buy Twitter stock?' And so the stock has gone down. The stock was trading at 1150 a little more than a month ago. Right now, it's about 745. That's hundreds of billions of dollars in market cap that's gone. If it goes much lower, he will not be able to buy Twitter. And I think he used Twitter as a big excuse to sell Tesla stock."


OK all you rightwing nincompoops worshiping Musk as your Censor Savior.....you can get off your knees


----------



## Wino

Musk is nothing more than a much richer Donald Trump - grifter and charlatan - more of a James Bond Dr. No. type.


----------



## Johnny b

Twitter, the Numbers and Musk

More, ( just what the World of Trump needs )

* Elon Musk's Twitter goals have 'very low probability' of success, analyst says *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon...bility-of-success-analyst-says-154818162.html

Fantastic business model.
Really!









Those numbers are mind numbing as observed above, but this is what Elon's would have a tough time with:


> Additionally, Twitter lacks popularity among the younger demographic, which Musk will need to attract to meet these targets.


Maybe he needs a virtual world, too. ( lol )


----------



## Johnny b

Finally....Biden comments about the MAGA fascist movement.

* Biden: MAGA is the 'most extreme political organization' in recent U.S. history  *
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/biden-maga-extreme-political-organization-00029969



> "This MAGA crowd is really the most extreme political organization that's existed in American history, in recent American history," Biden told reporters at the White House, referring to Trump's "Make America Great Again" movement.


Personally, IMO, there's more to Trumpism than just MAGA.
MAGA is Trump's political banner.
Under Trump's banner are assembled notorious groups such as Qanon, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, Libertarian anarchists, Dixiecrats, radicalized fundamentalists and the mentally challenged that are led to believe everything wrong in the US is somebody else's fault.
Included in the above are politicians, religious leaders, news personalities and too often elements of the public that are simply too ignorant to understand how they're being manipulated.


----------



## Johnny b

This is the stupidity we Ohioans have to put up with:

* J.D. Vance's claim that Biden is targeting 'MAGA voters' with fentanyl *
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...biden-is-targeting-maga-voters-with-fentanyl/

The claim:



> _"If you wanted to kill a bunch of MAGA voters in the middle of the heartland, how better than to target them and their kids with this deadly fentanyl? … It does look intentional. It's like Joe Biden wants to punish the people who didn't vote for him and opening up the floodgates to the border is one way to do it."_


That's the same level of stupid as MT Greene's claims:

* GOP Congresswoman Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser *
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/art...wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html



> • The QAnon conspiracy theory, which holds that Donald Trump is secretly fighting a worldwide child-sex-slavery ring that was supposed to culminate in the mass arrest of his political opposition, is "worth listening to."
> • Muslims don't belong in government.
> • 9/11 was an inside job.
> • Shootings at Parkland, Sandy Hook, and Las Vegas were staged.
> • "Zionist supremacists" are secretly masterminding Muslim immigration to Europe in a scheme to outbreed white people.
> • Leading Democratic officials should be executed.


And about those space lasers:
* Marjorie Taylor Greene Claims 'Jewish Space Lasers' Conspiracy Theory Was Fake News *
https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-t...asers-conspiracy-theory-was-fake-news-1574928

However, she was caught in the above lie.
What a twisted mind.
As Dan Quayle once commented:


> What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.


Indeed


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> I have been voting about 50 years now. It is disheartening to say Biden even after only one year in office has already proven he is by far the worst President in my lifetime. Nobody else even comes close. Some might call him a Manchurian candidate because he obviously is not in charge. It is just unfortunate that he cares more about pleasing his Far Left masters than the American people he is supposed to serve.


Ed.
Since you started this thread, most of what has been seen wrong in the US comes from the fascist/insane elements of the GOP.

It's evil stupidity like that of the following link that's destroying the moral center of our society:

* Rep. Elise Stefanik Attacks Mysterious 'Pedo Grifters' For Shortage Of Infant Formula *
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elis...e-immigrant-babies_n_627ee897e4b050d95191ed13

Every claim in your opening post is bogus.
Much like the rants of Greene and Gaetz.
And now Stefanik

And now you don't even try to defend them. You simply hide behind the TSG 'ignore' option lol! :up: <sarcasm>

RINOs.

* Biden: MAGA is the 'most extreme political organization' in recent U.S. history  *
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/biden-maga-extreme-political-organization-00029969


----------



## Johnny b

And it appears the issue with Greene's candidacy is being appealed.
Aside from her attempt to over throw an election, sedition and insurrection issues, she's a loon that probably ought to be in a mental ward.

*Georgia Voters Appeal Decision on Rep. Greene's Eligibility *
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...rs-appeal-decision-on-rep-greenes-eligibility

Solution to many of Biden's problems....lock'em up....all the MAGA RINOS.
If not in jail, definitely in mental wards ....


----------



## Johnny b

And here we have ...another attempt by a Fox News activist to discredit the Biden Administration, news presented only to immediately get outed as fraudulent.

* Sean Hannity Falsely Identifies 'Pallets and Pallets' of Baby Formula at the Border Amid Shortage *
https://news.yahoo.com/sean-hannity-falsely-identifies-pallets-194118964.html



> Fox News' Sean Hannity shared photos that falsely claimed to show "pallets and pallets" of baby formula at the southern border that were reserved for "illegal immigrants," which CNN quickly debunked, calling the "Fox and Friends" segment an "illuminating example" in "outrage creation."
> 
> Rep. Kat Cammack (R - Florida) joined the Fox News host on Friday to talk about the national shortage of baby formula. She's among several Republicans who have decried President Joe Biden over his decision to provide baby formula to migrant infants. Cammack has been on several Fox shows to express outrage over the issue and shared photos she said were given to her by a Customs and Border Patrol agent.
> 
> "The photo Hannity pointed to, and the one that followed it, showed boxes and boxes clearly labeled NIDO," the report, titled "Outrage Creation," read. "As anyone at Fox could have discovered with about a minute's worth of fact-checking, NIDO is not baby formula; it is powdered milk. As its maker, Nestlé, specifically notes: 'NIDO® products are only intended for children ages 1 year and older.'"


----------



## Johnny b

DJ jr. either needs a mental evaluation or Donald Sr needs to hire better handlers.

Headline says it all:

* Donald Trump Jr. says Biden's student-loan forgiveness plans will force workers who didn't go 'to college to get drunk for four years' to pay for 'worthless gender study degrees' *
https://news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-jr-says-bidens-141447316.html



> "Biden essentially wants blue-collar workers like truck drivers - who didn't have the luxury of going to college to get drunk for four years - to bail out a bunch of upper-middle-class kids who chose to spend tens of thousands of dollars that they didn't have on worthless gender study degrees," Trump told The Washington Post.


I was thinking of making a critical thinking comment.......but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Race_and_immigration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Promotion_of_conspiracy_theories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#COVID-19_misinformation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Other

And then.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Relation_to_the_2021_Capitol_riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Criminal_investigation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Fraud_investigation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donal..._Left_Thrives_on_Hate_and_Wants_to_Silence_Us

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donal...nd_the_Democrats'_Defense_of_the_Indefensible

And this....Family values

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Jr.#Family

Who the hell needs logic to understand the above.


----------



## Johnny b

I keep forgetting.....which Trump brother is supposed to be the smart one?


----------



## Johnny b

Twitter shares keeps sliding as Musk and Twitter's legal team argue.

* Twitter Stock Extends Slide As Elon Musk Reveals Spat With Legal Team, Adding to Takeover Doubts *
https://www.thestreet.com/markets/t...s-spat-with-legal-team?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

Oh my....those takeover doubts add up.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TWTR?p=TWTR


----------



## Johnny b

It just gets better and better lol!

* Elon Musk just responded to the Twitter CEO with a poop emoji *
https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-just-responded-twitter-182612508.html

Be sure to watch

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TWTR?p=TWTR

tomorrow


----------



## Johnny b

*Tesla stock pops as Elon Musk hints he could scrap Twitter deal *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesl...ts-he-could-scrap-twitter-deal-095134349.html



> In an early morning Tweet, Musk said "Yesterday, Twitter's CEO publicly refused to show proof of <5%," adding that "this deal cannot move forward until he does."
> 
> Twitter shares fell 3%.





> 20% fake/spam accounts, while 4 times what Twitter claims, could be *much* higher.
> 
> My offer was based on Twitter's SEC filings being accurate.
> 
> Yesterday, Twitter's CEO publicly refused to show proof of <5%.
> 
> This deal cannot move forward until he does.
> 
> - Elon Musk (@elonmusk)


IMO, Twitter looks like a wasteland with or without Trump.
lol!

Where the mindless go to play


----------



## Johnny b

Support for Russian domination grows in the Trump faction of the GOP.

* With echoes of Trump, GOP splinters over $40B for Ukraine *
https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...s-of-trump-gop-splinters-over-40b-for-ukraine



> The Senate voted late Monday to advance the Ukraine aid bill 81-11, pushing it toward President Joe Biden's desk by week's end to become law. But more vocal objections from Republicans in Congress are sending warning signs after what has been rare and united support for Ukraine as it desperately battles hostile Russia. All 11 no votes came from Republican senators.
> ..................
> 
> The shift in Congress opens a new political phase in Ukraine's fight for its survival against the Russian invasion, offering a wake-up call for the Biden administration about its strategy as it resists direct U.S. military troop involvement and depends on votes in the House and Senate to fund the military and humanitarian relief effort.


----------



## Johnny b

And here's the list of those 11 Russian sympathizers:

* Full List of 11 GOP Senators Who Voted Against Ukraine Aid *
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-11-gop-senators-voted-against-ukraine-aid-1707182



> The senators who voted no were: Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, John Boozman of Arkansas, Mike Braun of Indiana, Mike Crapo of Idaho, Bill Hagerty of Tennessee, Josh Hawley of Missouri, Mike Lee of Utah, Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming, Roger Marshall of Kansas, Rand Paul of Kentucky and Tommy Tuberville of Alabama.


----------



## Johnny b

* Biden signs $40B Ukraine aid bill; Zelenskyy says only 'diplomacy' can end war: Live updates *
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...aine-russia-invasion-live-updates/9865640002/



> The U.S. will send an additional $40 billion in support to Ukraine after President Joe Biden signed a bill while traveling in Asia. The money is intended to get Ukraine through September as the Russian invasion approaches its fourth month.


This is good. :up:


----------



## MisterEd51

The first instruction should have been: Don't show this sheet to anyone








.


----------



## Johnny b

You Putin lovers 

Unlike the previous President, at least he can read and comprehend the symbols


----------



## crjdriver

Yeah, inflation is all putin's fault. Of course, inflation was 1.4% when biden took office AND 7.9% on the day before putin invaded Ukraine. 
It could never be biden's brainless policies.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Yeah, inflation is all putin's fault. Of course, inflation was 1.4% when biden took office AND 7.9% on the day before putin invaded Ukraine.
> It could never be biden's brainless policies.


Agree.
There simply isn't much he can do about it.
Wars and pandemics are like that.
But he'll get plenty of 'blame' for it.

Putin lovers ......you guys are in for a difficult decade.
Not only is Covid not done with, Putin seems to have eyes on parts of Europe.

Get those vocal chords in tune, guys.... lol.
Along with Putin and Covid, recession is looming so you better start practicing your whining


----------



## crjdriver

There is a LOT he can do about it;
1 Open up drilling on federal land without restrictions
2 Get rid of restrictions on the oil/gas industry
3 Complete keystone pipe line 
Oil is a weapon and biden just handed it to putin. I just read yesterday or the day before where Germany is going to open up coal fired power plants so they do not purchase energy from Russia. 
What are the environmental nuts going to say???

Many people just do not understand that just about every item in a store traveled by truck and many by trains or ships. Well, those burn oil and it affects the price of everything in that store.


----------



## crjdriver

I laugh when biden tries to blame the oil industry for inflation and high prices. He does not understand that those companies are not going to invest their shareholder's money in expanding capacity when biden will renew efforts to put them out of business once the problem goes away.
BTW I am glad oil companies are not just throwing shareholder money at trying to fix biden's problem. I have stock in a number of oil companies, and I personally do not want to see profits invested in bailing out biden from his ridiculous policies.

He [biden] caused most [however not all] of the problem. Let him try and figure out how to fix it instead of blaming everyone except himself.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> There is a LOT he can do about it;
> 1 Open up drilling on federal land without restrictions
> 2 Get rid of restrictions on the oil/gas industry
> 3 Complete keystone pipe line
> Oil is a weapon and biden just handed it to putin. I just read yesterday or the day before where Germany is going to open up coal fired power plants so they do not purchase energy from Russia.
> What are the environmental nuts going to say???
> 
> Many people just do not understand that just about every item in a store traveled by truck and many by trains or ships. Well, those burn oil and it affects the price of everything in that store.


You blindly believe the extremist rightwing news media.

There is no oil shortage in the US.
It's an issue of refining capability/capacity.

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityi...lowest-mark-in-8-years-amid-record-prices-eia


> Refining capacity could dip further by the end of 2023


As anyone can easily see, the issue ( refined output ) is likely to get worse and Biden has little control over it.


----------



## Johnny b

Biden could promote electric vehicles......but that would likely take more than a couple years to have a measurable effect.


----------



## crjdriver

I never said there was an oil shortage. In fact the U.S. has a LOT of oil. The problem is capacity and as I stated, no company is going to invest in expanding capacity when biden wants to put them out of business. Just does not make sense from a business standpoint.


----------



## Johnny b

Well....what do you know......

* Biden Administration to Set Rules of the Road for Charging Electric Vehicles *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/09/climate/electric-vehicles-charging-stations.html


----------



## crjdriver

I have no problem with electric cars. Electric cars are never going to be viable until you can charge them in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a fuel tank OR at least close to the same amount of time.


----------



## crjdriver

No one wants to wait an hour to charge a car when you can fill the fuel tank in a few min.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I never said there was an oil shortage. In fact the U.S. has a LOT of oil. The problem is capacity and as I stated, no company is going to invest in expanding capacity when biden wants to put them out of business. Just does not make sense from a business standpoint.


There is no need for the claims you previously made.

Further:

dated May 31, 2022
*US exports even more oil as domestic gasoline and diesel prices spike *
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/us-exports-even-more-oil-as-domestic-gasoline-diesel-prices-spike

That's not Biden's doing, it's the oil industry profiteering.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I have no problem with electric cars. Electric cars are never going to be viable until you can charge them in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a fuel tank OR at least close to the same amount of time.


Never say 'never' 
It's called 'fast charging' and it's getting better and faster.

Technology is wonderful.

Biden should promote it


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> No one wants to wait an hour to charge a car when you can fill the fuel tank in a few min.


People that want to drill for more oil certainly don't


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I have no problem with electric cars. Electric cars are never going to be viable until you can charge them in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a fuel tank OR at least close to the same amount of time.


And this is Biden's fault?

BTW, I've recently seen articles on public schools beginning to introduce electric school buses. Their downside is they're considerably more expensive than diesel.
And the trucking industry is starting to invest in small fleets. Mostly short haul, but some big rigs too.


----------



## Wino

Keystone Pipe was a boondoggle from the gitgo. Benefited no one but Canada and China and would not ever make a dent in our oil production. There is no oil shortage; no lack of refineries nor production; just greed by big oil - same as always.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> It's called 'fast charging' and it's getting better and faster.


There is a big disparity about what constitutes a "Fast" charger. Some are faster than others. I have been doing a lot of research regarding electric cars; range, type of batteries, performance, etc. 
Fast charging works great until you get to about 80% of charge then it takes a LOT of time to go from 80% to 100%
While 80% charge would be fine for around town driving, you really want 100% for long hauls.

Personally, for me, an electric car would be fine since I only go to the gym in the morning and the store. AND I have solar panels so it would cost nothing to charge at home. I even put in a 240V outlet with a tesla plug in my garage


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> There is a LOT he can do about it;
> 1 Open up drilling on federal land without restrictions
> 2 Get rid of restrictions on the oil/gas industry
> 3 Complete keystone pipe line
> Oil is a weapon and biden just handed it to putin. I just read yesterday or the day before where Germany is going to open up coal fired power plants so they do not purchase energy from Russia.
> What are the environmental nuts going to say???
> 
> Many people just do not understand that just about every item in a store traveled by truck and many by trains or ships. Well, those burn oil and it affects the price of everything in that store.


The government keeps talking about oil leases. Leases only allow companies to look for oil. There is no guarantee that oil will be found. Even if oil is found it may not be economical to extract it. Even when oil is found and it will economical to extract it the companies still need to obtain leases to start drilling. Once a lease is obtained the infrastructure needs to be built for drilling and transportation of the oil. All this might takes 5-10 years or more from start to finish.

@crjdriver you make good points but even if all of this was done it will many years before any difference is seen. If Biden hadn't killed Keystone and clamped down on the oil companies when he came into office the United States would be a lot better off now. Oil companies would now have the capacity and willingness to produce the oil our country needs.

Note how Biden talks out of both sides of his mouth. He said he wants the oil companies to at the flick of a switch to increase oil production. He also says he wants to continue with his climate change agenda. These are two conflicting goals so you can't blame the oil companies not trusting Biden.

Also, while Biden badmouths U.S. oil companies he goes around the world begging foreign oil companies to step up their oil production. I guess fossil fuels are better for the environment if they come from offshore sources. It is ironic that U.S. oil is probably cleaner than that produced by foreign sources.


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> There is a big disparity about what constitutes a "Fast" charger. Some are faster than others. I have been doing a lot of research regarding electric cars; range, type of batteries, performance, etc.
> Fast charging works great until you get to about 80% of charge then it takes a LOT of time to go from 80% to 100%
> While 80% charge would be fine for around town driving, you really want 100% for long hauls.
> 
> Personally, for me, an electric car would be fine since I only go to the gym in the morning and the store. AND I have solar panels so it would cost nothing to charge at home. I even put in a 240V outlet with a tesla plug in my garage


There is nothing wrong with electric cars as long as you accept the fact that you are going to need fossil fuels and nuclear to fuel the power plants to produce the electricty to charge electric cars. The proponents of climate change want everyone to drive electric cars and at the same time shut down all power plants that use fossil fuels and nuclear. Their answer is renewables, solar, and wind. The problem is that is not enough. The math just does not work for this. Maybe it would help if they threw in some squirrels and chipmunks on treadmills.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> That's not Biden's doing, it's the oil industry profiteering.


The first job of any company is to return a profit to the investors. If an oil company can sell its product for more money to one buyer rather than make less money selling it domestically, then they should do so. 
To do anything else would be a dereliction of their fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of their shareholders. 
It is NOT the duty of the oil/gas industry to get an idiot of the spot he got himself into.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> There is a big disparity about what constitutes a "Fast" charger. Some are faster than others. I have been doing a lot of research regarding electric cars; range, type of batteries, performance, etc.
> Fast charging works great until you get to about 80% of charge then it takes a LOT of time to go from 80% to 100%
> While 80% charge would be fine for around town driving, you really want 100% for long hauls.
> 
> Personally, for me, an electric car would be fine since I only go to the gym in the morning and the store. AND I have solar panels so it would cost nothing to charge at home. I even put in a 240V outlet with a tesla plug in my garage


Technology has a habit of making improvements 
Like I posted, Biden ought to be promoting it more.


----------



## crjdriver

I read an article yesterday or day before [I believe it was the wall street journal] where biden was calling on gas stations to sell gas at the price at which they buy it.
I guess the rent, employee wages,, utility bills, etc just pay themselves.
It is a statement made by someone who has no understanding of how business works. I guess when you spend your entire career [excepting for one year] feeding at the government trough, this is what you come up with.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> The first job of any company is to return a profit to the investors. If an oil company can sell its product for more money to one buyer rather than make less money selling it domestically, then they should do so.
> To do anything else would be a dereliction of their fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of their shareholders.
> It is NOT the duty of the oil/gas industry to get an idiot of the spot he got himself into.


And yet, you are the one complaining about high prices 
I merely pointed out that the rise is due to profiteering, and I gave you reason to understand why.

However, I think Biden's cutting of the Federal tax on fuel might be a mistake.
Those funds are a resource for interstate transportation and infrastructure.
A lot of commerce depends on that upkeep.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> However, I think Biden's cutting of the Federal tax on fuel might be a mistake.
> Those funds are a resource for interstate transportation and infrastructure.
> A lot of commerce depends on that upkeep.


Oh no, I agree with you. Something must be wrong. 
It is only kicking the can down the road until the mid-term elections. NOT fixing the problem.


----------



## Johnny b

Wino said:


> Keystone Pipe was a boondoggle from the gitgo. Benefited no one but Canada and China and would not ever make a dent in our oil production. There is no oil shortage; no lack of refineries nor production; just greed by big oil - same as always.


Have to disagree about the refineries.
There have been shut downs for several reasons and their startup seems slow.
Refined product is in decline, Wayne.

But the price at the pump has less to do with inflation.

Is big oil greedy? Of course 
But then, who isn't?


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Oh no, I agree with you. Something must be wrong.
> It is only kicking the can down the road until the mid-term elections. NOT fixing the problem.


I agree completely.


----------



## crjdriver

The idea of suspending the federal gas tax is right up there with states wanting to send gift cards or checks to drivers. Not fixing the problem; just passing it down the line. 
BTW I am not complaining about prices, I am complaining about a moron who tried to blame everyone except himself. 
I actually like the high profits oil companies are making since my dividend gets better


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I read an article yesterday or day before [I believe it was the wall street journal] where biden was calling on gas stations to sell gas at the price at which they buy it.
> I guess the rent, employee wages,, utility bills, etc just pay themselves.
> It is a statement made by someone who has no understanding of how business works. I guess when you spend your entire career [excepting for one year] feeding at the government trough, this is what you come up with.


First, that will never happen.
Second, I did a quick search but all I found was about relaxing the Federal tax for 90 days.
I did find a statement that Biden wanted the stations to pass along the reduction in Taxation to the consumer.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...nt-biden-on-gas-prices-and-putins-price-hike/

The main issue is Putin and his war.
Europe is going to suffer this fall and winter without their oil and natural gas.
That's the market our oil industry is supporting, causing oil exports to increase and will likely accelerate this fall.

I expect prices at the pump will increase and there's nothing drilling or new leases can do to suppress it. Demand versus supply. And that's in real time.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> The idea of suspending the federal gas tax is right up there with states wanting to send gift cards or checks to drivers. Not fixing the problem; just passing it down the line.
> BTW I am not complaining about prices, I am complaining about a moron who tried to blame everyone except himself.
> I actually like the high profits oil companies are making since my dividend gets better


And I'm pointing out that Biden doesn't have many realistic options.
He'll get the blame, but he's not the catalyst.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> And I'm pointing out that Biden doesn't have many realistic options.
> He'll get the blame, but he's not the catalyst.


On that we disagree. While some inflation was inevitable when the lockdowns ended, biden threw gasoline on the fire of inflation. Sure, putin has some blame however biden has most of the blame.


----------



## crjdriver

The government could have removed all or most of the restrictions on the oil/gas industry. Of course, this would not sit well with environmental wackos.
Drill baby drill and the price of oil will come down. It will not come down immediately however it will come down.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> There is nothing wrong with electric cars as long as you accept the fact that you are going to need fossil fuels and nuclear to fuel the power plants to produce the electricty to charge electric cars. The proponents of climate change want everyone to drive electric cars and at the same time shut down all power plants that use fossil fuels and nuclear. Their answer is renewables, solar, and wind. The problem is that is not enough. The math just does not work for this. Maybe it would help if they threw in some squirrels and chipmunks on treadmills.


In other words, do nothing.
Vladimir approves of this post.

I suspect you didn't realize it at the time, but you just posted a good argument for investment in battery technology and alternative energy.
I also support the concept of fusion reactors.



> The proponents of climate change want everyone to drive electric cars and at the same time shut down all power plants that use fossil fuels and nuclear.


Some do, some don't.
I'm for replacement when feasible.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> On that we disagree. While some inflation was inevitable when the lockdowns ended, biden threw gasoline on the fire of inflation. Sure, putin has some blame however biden has most of the blame.





> biden threw gasoline on the fire of inflation.


That's become a rightwing meme. No explanation or supporting reason.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> The government could have removed all or most of the restrictions on the oil/gas industry. Of course, this would not sit well with environmental wackos.
> Drill baby drill and the price of oil will come down. It will not come down immediately however it will come down.


As pointed out....irrelevant to the issue.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> No explanation or supporting reason.


Really??? Stopping the pipeline as soon as he got in office. More and more restrictions on the oil industry. Yeah, no reason at all. Then he wants that industry to bail him out of the problem he and the idiot dems caused.
Like it or not, the price of oil affects the price of _everything_. You curtail the amount of any product, and you increase the cost. Add in that many countries are not purchasing Russian oil or gas and that makes the supply even tighter.
Let's see. Inflation at 1.4% the day biden took office; 7.4% the day before putin invaded. Yeah, it is putin's fault. Could not be biden's fault.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Really??? Stopping the pipeline as soon as he got in office. More and more restrictions on the oil industry. Yeah, no reason at all. Then he wants that industry to bail him out of the problem he and the idiot dems caused.
> Like it or not, the price of oil affects the price of _everything_. You curtail the amount of any product, and you increase the cost. Add in that many countries are not purchasing Russian oil or gas and that makes the supply even tighter.
> Let's see. Inflation at 1.4% the day biden took office; 7.4% the day before putin invaded. Yeah, it is putin's fault. Could not be biden's fault.


As I've shown you with market facts, you're only repeating a fallacy.



> Like it or not, the price of oil affects the price of _everything_. You curtail the amount of any product, and you increase the cost.


The issue is the abundance of refined petroleum.
The bottleneck is refinery capacity in decline while foreign demand increases.

Yes, the actions of Putin brought about that increased demand and there is little Biden can do to increase the finished product because of the lack of refinery output.
Repeating a fallacy won't change events or an outcome.

Right now, with refined petroleum products, it's a seller's market.

And it's going to get worse as that war progresses and demand of our resources increases abroad.

We are at war with Russia. Undeclared, but the rhetoric is there and killing grounds exist.

Putin + a pandemic hasn't been kind to the world.
Inflation and oil are but early signs of strife to come for us in the US.
I suggest you start thinking of how our society ( and the rest of the world ) is going to feed itself in the near future. There won't be a ag failure in the US, but food is going to become a luxury for many.

You worry about transportation and gasoline prices, I suggest you start considering how dependent our agriculture is on petroleum, cost and availability.
It's a hell of a lot more than what farm equipment uses/burns.
Hint, yields become a problem as well as costs of production.

I started a thread on that and hardly anyone paid attention.

...............
Biden will never be a 'great President', but again, he's not the catalyst of our economic problems.
I could bring up Trump's influence, but it would only drive Ed further into a manic tizzy.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> I suggest you start considering how dependent our agriculture is on petroleum, cost and availability.
> It's a hell of a lot more than what farm equipment uses/burns.
> Hint, yields become a problem as well as costs of production.


Just what I said; the price of oil effects the price of everything. 
Bring back coal fired power plants. That should make greta thunberg happy


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Just what I said; the price of oil effects the price of everything.
> Bring back coal fired power plants. That should make greta thunberg happy


But when it comes to cause and effect, I sense you're missing the point 

Just an update on electrical generation.
Alternative energy has not only become competitive with coal, it's often a little cheaper.
And if you claim it's Obama's fault, I can correct that also


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Alternative energy has not only become competitive with coal, it's often a little cheaper


It may be cheaper. What do you do when the Sun does not shine OR the wind does not blow. They had a hard time in Texas last winter. I am all for alternative energy. I have solar panels; not because I am an environmental wacko, I just dislike the power company. The solar panels allow me to give the finger to the pw company


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> It may be cheaper. What do you do when the Sun does not shine OR the wind does not blow. They had a hard time in Texas last winter. I am all for alternative energy. I have solar panels; not because I am an environmental wacko, I just dislike the power company. The solar panels allow me to give the finger to the pw company


Renewable sources will never entertain 100% duty for those reasons.There will always be secondary sources considered as backup.
Several decades ago in Ohio, natural gas generators were built as backups and supplemental for coal fired units. They worked well. And they were durable even at a 100% duty cycle. Cheaper to run and a lot cleaner.

There is supposed to be a small local solar farm that AES is testing. Again, more like supplemental for times of high draw.

Gates is said to be working on a fission nuclear project, I think in Oregon. I think it's similar to what the French have been successfully using with lesser nuclear waste than the US models. Conceptually, safer.
Ceramic fuel cells are big in Southeast Asia. South Korea as I remember.
There's a lot of possible combinations.

Myself, I'm plugged into AES.
Because of local hail and storms, I don't feel like investing in solar.
I don't see much of it in my area.
There's no wind generators locally.

I look to fusion generation as a better concept, but that's decades away.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> ............ They had a hard time in Texas last winter. ..................


I remember. 
But I also remember their network wasn't built to a code that covered that kind of extreme weather.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/15/texas-power-grid-winter-storm-2021/


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .................................. If Biden hadn't killed Keystone and clamped down on the oil companies when he came into office the United States would be a lot better off now. Oil companies would now have the capacity and willingness to produce the oil our country needs.
> ...............


Your argument is an obvious fallacy.

Currently, big oil has record profits with reduced refining.
The only way your model works is to do a Trump and order the refineries to produce more.
The pipeline issue is BS.

If you didn't have me on ignore, you'd know why lol!


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The government keeps talking about oil leases. Leases only allow companies to look for oil. There is no guarantee that oil will be found. Even if oil is found it may not be economical to extract it. Even when oil is found and it will economical to extract it the companies still need to obtain leases to start drilling. Once a lease is obtained the infrastructure needs to be built for drilling and transportation of the oil. All this might takes 5-10 years or more from start to finish.
> ..................
> 
> ..................





> All this might takes 5-10 years or more from start to finish.


So, it takes a long time to ramp up the refining process from the ground to the gas stations.
I think most people recognize that.
But, given timelines that can span a decade, how in the world do you think drilling more oil wells now, initiating building more refineries now and constructing pipelines to carry that crude ....completion occurring in a span of 5 to 10 years from now....is going to magically solve inflation tomorrow? Or even within 5 years? Or 10 given yet unknown factors, like recessions or future wars?

Have you given this much thought?


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> .......................
> 
> Note how Biden talks out of both sides of his mouth. He said he wants the oil companies to at the flick of a switch to increase oil production. He also says he wants to continue with his climate change agenda. These are two conflicting goals ................
> ....................


After 4 years of Trump, cut him some slack.
There's a war to address and realistically, when they start, the climate becomes an afterthought.

Yeah, blame climate change on Putin. !

Seriously, you should worry more about where your meals come from.
( and there is a connection to escalating petroleum prices )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...................
> 
> Also, while Biden badmouths U.S. oil companies he goes around the world begging foreign oil companies to step up their oil production. I guess fossil fuels are better for the environment if they come from offshore sources. It is ironic that U.S. oil is probably cleaner than that produced by foreign sources.


Do you understand there is a global market for petroleum, and shortages elsewhere because of the war Putin started?
Maybe you didn't consider that if global production increased for the European market, it would mean less oil exported from the US, driving down our domestic prices?
Supply versus demand in a capitalist economy. Ever hear of the concept?

Did you get that BS out of Putin's play book?


----------



## Johnny b

This is sure to upset Mr Ed.

* Russia to default for first time in a century as payment deadline looms  *
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...-latest-coronavirus-news-pound-euro-ftse-100/



> Russia is poised to default on its international debts for the first time in a century this Sunday, after time runs out for Moscow to make about $100m of overdue payments.


OMG!! that's today.

It's all Biden's fault ( :up:! )


----------



## Johnny b

About Putin, his war, and petroleum.

* The best way to lower oil and gas prices *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-best-way-to-lower-oil-and-gas-prices-134940709.html

A lot to read and consider.

The short version:
.... most of the price increase is from Putin's war.
The solution is ....the end of Putin's aggression.

Hard times are coming.


----------



## Johnny b

Not about Biden, but a topic mentioned earlier in this thread.

Trump extremists are losing a potential future in a social media platform.
Musk has pulled the plug on his bid for Twitter and uncensored speech.

* Twitter vows legal fight after Musk pulls out of $44 billion deal *
https://www.reuters.com/technology/elon-musk-terminating-twitter-deal-2022-07-08/



> Elon Musk, the chief executive officer of Tesla (TSLA.O) and the world's richest person, said on Friday he was terminating his $44 billion deal to buy Twitter (TWTR.N) because the social media company had breached multiple provisions of the merger agreement.


Looks like the cults and kooks are stuck with Trump's Truth Social.
And that's another story on it's own 

* Trump Reportedly Leaves Board Of Truth Social Company-But Platform Denies Claim *
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichol...uth-social-company-but-platform-denies-claim/

OMG....what's a Trump supporter to do?


----------



## crjdriver

The election in Nov should be VERY interesting. It took Jimmy Carter four years to screwup things this badly; biden did it in 1.5yr 😱😱😱


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> The election in Nov should be VERY interesting. It took Jimmy Carter four years to screwup things this badly; biden did it in 1.5yr 😱😱😱


lol.
You're being generous to Jimmy.

The difference though is ......Jimmy did screw up the economy, but Biden inherited the factors that now affect it.
Biden is judged on how well he addresses the impact of Covid, Putin's war and Trump's fanaticism with fascism.
And he's not looking successful, and given the negative influence of remnants of Trumpism and the general public's acceptance of this new fascism, probably won't be.

This is the current 'Republican' platform:

* Replacement theories, hunting RINOs: How GOP candidates, lawmakers push 'dangerous' language *
https://news.yahoo.com/replacement-theories-hunting-rinos-gop-090008741.html

* GOP Senate candidate releases 'RINO hunting' ad aimed at fellow Republicans *
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...hunting-ad-aimed-fellow-republicans-rcna34388

There's a lot worse in Trumpism than anything Biden is accused of screwing up.
The current GOP shares too much with 1930's Germany.


----------



## crjdriver

My prediction for the election and beyond is as follows;
1 Republicans take the house. This is really a no brainer
2 Republicans possibly take the Senate
3 Biden is impeached. Depending on whether or not the Senate is Republican, the impeachment proceedings go either quickly or VERY slowly. If the Repubs have the Senate it will go slowly since no one not [even dims] wants the cackling moron. If the dims keep the Senate, then the impeachment proceedings will go quickly and biden remains in office however as a VERY lame duck. 
If the repubs have the Senate, then the impeachment will drag out until there is only a very few days left in the term and biden is the only President to be removed from office by impeachment.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> My prediction for the election and beyond is as follows;
> 1 Republicans take the house. This is really a no brainer
> 2 Republicans possibly take the Senate
> 3 Biden is impeached. Depending on whether or not the Senate is Republican, the impeachment proceedings go either quickly or VERY slowly. If the Repubs have the Senate it will go slowly since no one not [even dims] wants the cackling moron. If the dims keep the Senate, then the impeachment proceedings will go quickly and biden remains in office however as a VERY lame duck.
> If the repubs have the Senate, then the impeachment will drag out until there is only a very few days left in the term and biden is the only President to be removed from office by impeachment.


#1 and 2, agree, a strong possibility..
#3 ...impeachment unlikely even with GOP control of both Houses. There has to be a reason in legal terminology. Hating the guy isn't enough 
Nor wanting an end to the election process.

Of course, there will be some that will go to extremes of sedition and insurrection like on 'Jan 6th'.
I suspect members of Congress that supported it will argue the loudest for impeachment.

As far as being the first President to be removed from office, you wish


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> As far as being the first President to be removed from office, you wish


So, tell me, which President before biden was removed via impeachment???


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> So, tell me, which President before biden was removed via impeachment???


Why ask a question we all know?

My statement stands:


> As far as being the first President to be removed from office, you wish


It's obviously your 'wish'


----------



## crjdriver

We shall see. I do not hate biden. I do think he is incompetent and [possibly] guilty of selling influence and access to government. 
A trial will determine guilt.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> We shall see. I do not hate biden. I do think he is incompetent and [possibly] guilty of selling influence and access to government.
> A trial will determine guilt.


Some evidence would be convenient ..............


----------



## crjdriver

Once the House starts an investigation, there will [probably] be plenty of evidence. 
2023 should be an interesting year and the dims only have themselves to thank.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Once the House starts an investigation, there will [probably] be plenty of evidence.
> 2023 should be an interesting year and the dims only have themselves to thank.


So, the only evidence you can point to is a 'probably'?

I've seen and read of evidence that Trump was involved in an attempt to over throw an election.
And now he appears to be planning a come back.
In my lifetime, I've never seen any other President with such a nefarious agenda.
Nor such tolerance and devotion by a large segment of the public to it.
Fascism has become popular.


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> My prediction for the election and beyond is as follows;
> 1 Republicans take the house. This is really a no brainer
> 2 Republicans possibly take the Senate
> 3 Biden is impeached. Depending on whether or not the Senate is Republican, the impeachment proceedings go either quickly or VERY slowly. If the Repubs have the Senate it will go slowly since no one not [even dims] wants the cackling moron. If the dims keep the Senate, then the impeachment proceedings will go quickly and biden remains in office however as a VERY lame duck.
> If the repubs have the Senate, then the impeachment will drag out until there is only a very few days left in the term and biden is the only President to be removed from office by impeachment.


The chances of the Republicans impeaching Biden is about zero. The Democrats were only able to impeach Trump because they in unison with the main stream media and big tech lied about him. They did so often and convincingly that they had millions of people believe them. The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats think they are so smart and righteous that to them lying and cheating are no big deal. It is only a means to an end. There are some Republicans that are known to lie also. The problem is that most Republicans unlike the Democrats don't have it in their DNA to consistently lie. That means the Republicans would have to impeach Biden based solely on the facts. The problem is facts are not enough. In today's world what is deemed true is determined by who controls the narrative. Even then the main stream media and big tech would lie and defend Biden even if they have hold their nose while doing it. In other words for millions of people the main stream media and big tech would determine what is true or not. The Republicans wouldn't have a chance.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...................................The Democrats were only able to impeach Trump because they in unison with the main stream media and big tech lied about him. They did so often and convincingly that they had millions of people believe them. ............................


For you 'True Believers'.....too bad Trump was caught on video tape and had so many around him at the time, now testifying to his actions on that Jan 6th attempted overthrow.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> So, the only evidence you can point to is a 'probably'?
> 
> I've seen and read of evidence that Trump was involved in an attempt to over throw an election.
> And now he appears to be planning a come back.
> In my lifetime, I've never seen any other President with such a nefarious agenda.
> Nor such tolerance and devotion by a large segment of the public to it.
> Fascism has become popular.


Probably because it has yet to be proven. That may or may not come in a trial.
Let us see what happens.....
Again, this is just my opinion. I am pretty sure biden has at least a few people around him that can explain what will happen when the dims lose the house. Unless it is on a cue card, I doubt biden can understand much of anything on his own.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> The chances of the Republicans impeaching Biden is about zero. The Democrats were only able to impeach Trump because they in unison with the main stream media and big tech lied about him. They did so often and convincingly that they had millions of people believe them. The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats think they are so smart and righteous that to them lying and cheating are no big deal. It is only a means to an end. There are some Republicans that are known to lie also. The problem is that most Republicans unlike the Democrats don't have it in their DNA to consistently lie. That means the Republicans would have to impeach Biden based solely on the facts. The problem is facts are not enough. In today's world what is deemed true is determined by who controls the narrative. Even then the main stream media and big tech would lie and defend Biden even if they have hold their nose while doing it. In other words for millions of people the main stream media and big tech would determine what is true or not. The Republicans wouldn't have a chance.


Interesting attempt at reverse psychology.
Are you channeling Tucker? 



> The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats think they are so smart and righteous that to them lying and cheating are no big deal. It is only a means to an end.


So why do Trump and his supporters lie so much?
If it's not a means to an end, what's their point?



> There are some Republicans that are known to lie also.


Yep.
The Donald seems to hold the record for that. lol!



> That means the Republicans would have to impeach Biden based solely on the facts.


On facts involving illegal activity. Evidence of illegal activity.
So, what are they?



> The problem is facts are not enough.


Evidence would be enough. 
But is there any?
If you know of any, please post them.
( Please, no 'Fake News'  )



> Even then the main stream media and big tech would lie and defend Biden even if they have hold their nose while doing it


I think you watch too much Fox News.



> In other words for millions of people the main stream media and big tech would determine what is true or not.


I just read where Musk bailed on Twitter and Trump was kicked off the Board of Truth Social.
Devastating lol.



> The Republicans wouldn't have a chance.


They simply aren't led by republicans anymore.
Perhaps too many extremists and Dixiecrats.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Probably because it has yet to be proven. That may or may not come in a trial.
> Let us see what happens.....
> Again, this is just my opinion. I am pretty sure biden has at least a few people around him that can explain what will happen when the dims lose the house. Unless it is on a cue card, I doubt biden can understand much of anything on his own.


Opinions are OK, everyone has one 

I'd like to see mainstream/moderate Republicans back in leadership roles.
For that, the extremist element needs to give up control of the Party. And that's not likely.


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ...........................
> 
> ....................... The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats think they are so smart and righteous that to them lying and cheating are no big deal. It is only a means to an end. ...................


Your hatred for Biden is about to be tested. lol.
He's approving of new oil wells in Alaska.
And as you pointed out in a post earlier, it'll be at least 5 years before that oil gets refined.
So, for the next 5+ years, you're going to have to come up with a different reason for hating him. 

* Biden Administration Signals Support for Controversial Alaska Oil Project *
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/climate/willow-alaska-oil-project-environment.html

And check out the environment where the drilling is proposed.
Global warming is an issue. 


> Over the past 60 years, Alaska has warmed more than twice as fast as the rest of the United States. Arctic ecosystems are in disarray, sea ice is disappearing, sea levels are rising and the ground is thawing. At one point, ConocoPhillips announced plans to install "chillers" into the permafrost - which is melting because of climate change - to keep it solid enough to support the equipment to drill for oil.


----------



## Wino

WOW! Talk about projection. MeisterEd description of Dems mirrors Trumpies with one huge difference - it 100% applies to his group of gullible illiterates.


----------



## Johnny b

LOL.....I can't post the links because of TSG censorship, but I was just listening to Trump F-bombing a rally up in Alaska. Reuters article with a video at Yahoo News.
In a search, it appears his remarks aren't that uncommon.

I remember when a G-D remark was political suicide.
Now days, religious groups seem to love it. Sign of the times.

Biden....civil.
Trump...crude, immoral and still whining about being impeached and losing an election.


----------



## crjdriver

I actually agree with you. Trump is not a good guy however his policies were pretty good; just look at the stock market gain [prior to covid] His policies made a LOT of millionaires.
He [trump] is an egotistical narcissist. If he would have just stayed OFF social media and shut up, he would have been reelected. So instead of a narcissist, we end up with a senile old man who has little idea of where he is [without cue cards and a teleprompter]
I am hoping he [trump] does not try and run in 2024. Doing so would split the repubs and we could end up with something even worse than biden.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I actually agree with you. Trump is not a good guy however his policies were pretty good; just look at the stock market gain [prior to covid] His policies made a LOT of millionaires.
> He [trump] is an egotistical narcissist. If he would have just stayed OFF social media and shut up, he would have been reelected. So instead of a narcissist, we end up with a senile old man who has little idea of where he is [without cue cards and a teleprompter]
> I am hoping he [trump] does not try and run in 2024. Doing so would split the repubs and we could end up with something even worse than biden.





> however his policies were pretty good


Actually, his policies were quite bad.
Cutting income taxes had little influence on corporate productivity or expansion while at the same time cutting back on many social programs.
Obvious was the reduction in funding the study of virology and stockpiling of emergency medical gear ( Obama was to blame for allowing stockpiles to decline, Trump nixed replenishing them )
But while income taxes were cut, consumers faced what amounted to taxation through newly created tariffs.
Agriculture was stressed from foreign markets being off limits.
If socialism is governmental intrusion into a free market, Trump would be a socialist.
Farmers were given $billions in support because of tariffs.
Trump handed out $billions in Covid support to businesses fraudulently applying.

Unemployment reached a new low under Trump, but most of the decline occurred under Obama.
BTW, unemployment is low, last I read, 3.6%.

As far as stock market gains, that was mostly a reaction to tax reduction and as seen, transitory.
The nation was in worse shape financially ( right before covid ) because the general public wasn't heavly invested in that market.
Same old story ( and no complaints from me so long as it's legal ) wealth generates wealth.
So it was the few ^ that shared that market. Not the general public.
And Covid made it much worse......for the general public.
But wealth still generates wealth. Even today.

But the middle class simply doesn't invest to any great degree and the low class have nothing to invest.

Trump built a 'house of cards'.

After 4 years of Trump's views on Putin, racism and his bizarre denial of a pandemic along with Atlas' theory of just let everyone get immunity through infection of a deadly virus, why in the world does anyone think all those wrongs can be overcome in one Presidential term let alone a decade?



> If he would have just stayed OFF social media and shut up, he would have been reelected.


That's an unrealistic assessment.
Trump initially gained power and influence by being boisterous and obnoxious while addressing a dissatisfied general public.
He built his empire as a real estate developer. Successful ones have learned how to judge the marks and provide interesting promises ( lies  ) to better their lives and pocket books.
To stop, Trump would essentially disappear from the public view with no messages to infuriate and thus support his political promises.

He's not republican even though he's a member of the GOP.
More of a malevolent opportunist.
In his youth, he partied with the Democrat Liberals of New York.
And used a mob lawyer to get himself out of legal problems.
I read where he was at one time an Independent.
Reality, he's what ever he thinks the public wants, that will put him in power.

Maga, Nationalism, white supremacy, Qanon, Libertarian anarchists, DIxiecrats.....and more no doubt 

A universal scumbag.
And now there are too many like that in the GOP.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Cutting income taxes had little influence on corporate productivity or expansion while at the same time cutting back on many social programs.


Social programs NEED to be cut. Just as an example, look at black unemployment rates prior to johnson's War on Poverty. They were lower then than after wasting trillions on the social programs from the mid 60s on. 
Unemployment numbers will probably never get lower than when trump was in office. Even during WWII when factories were running three shifts and paying VERY good wages, unemployment was at around 3%
There are people that are never going to work no matter what is available.

I actually liked Bill Clinton's approach of putting a limit on a person's ability to collect welfare. Of course obama got rid of that.....
Even though I did not agree with a lot of what Clinton did, he actually did a good job of running the country.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Social programs NEED to be cut. Just as an example, look at black unemployment rates prior to johnson's War on Poverty. They were lower then than after wasting trillions on the social programs from the mid 60s on.
> Unemployment numbers will probably never get lower than when trump was in office. Even during WWII when factories were running three shifts and paying VERY good wages, unemployment was at around 3%
> There are people that are never going to work no matter what is available.
> 
> I actually liked Bill Clinton's approach of putting a limit on a person's ability to collect welfare. Of course obama got rid of that.....
> Even though I did not agree with a lot of what Clinton did, he actually did a good job of running the country.





> Social programs NEED to be cut.


Need?
One only has to look at the health of a society ( social and physical ) to realize they've been cut in the wrong areas and poorly administrated when funded.
The cure isn't to cut and create more of the same distress.



> Just as an example, look at black unemployment rates prior to johnson's War on Poverty.


No, let's look at the path of our society leading up to today and how we got there.
You can cherry pick any point in time to argue what ever point is chosen.
The distant past is but one set of problems poorly addressed at that time.
And welfare is but one social problem while there are many to address.
Education.
Health.
Social Security.

All points that were negatively addressed by Trump. And don't mistake that as a support for other administrations. They also made mistakes, each compounding the later, each canceling out positives to leave negatives the next was supposed to address.....and obviously didn't.



> Unemployment numbers will probably never get lower than when trump was in office.


You must mean the continuation of Obama's trend because Covid turned it into a disaster.
The unemployment rate at the end of Trump's administration was about 6.3%, Covid being a factor.
Anyway, Trump's lowest was not the lowest and considering how Trump left office, the current rate is amazing.

https://www.davemanuel.com/what-was-the-lowest-unemployment-rate-in-us-history-145/
1953......

If you think Trump was so great, how do you address this:
https://democrats.org/news/what-the...mployment-rate-president-biden-just-achieved/



> There are people that are never going to work no matter what is available.


True, but that hasn't been a major issue of late.



> Even though I did not agree with a lot of what Clinton did, he actually did a good job of running the country.


You do realize he was responsible for signing off on the legislation that led to the 'Great Recession'?


----------



## crjdriver

Social programs are not intended to help people. They are intended to buy votes. You really have to give credit to politicians since they figured out how to buy votes with taxpayer money rather than their own.


----------



## MisterEd51

crjdriver said:


> I actually liked Bill Clinton's approach of putting a limit on a person's ability to collect welfare. Of course obama got rid of that.....
> Even though I did not agree with a lot of what Clinton did, he actually did a good job of running the country.


You are giving Clinton too much credit. You are talking about the "The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996". It was part of the Republican's Contract with America. Clinton first vetoed it and only signed it after negotiating with the Republicans. Unlike Biden, Clinton was pragmatic and knew that siding with the Republicans was right for him and the country. Biden would never do anything like that because his far left constituents would not allow it.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Social programs are not intended to help people. They are intended to buy votes. You really have to give credit to politicians since they figured out how to buy votes with taxpayer money rather than their own.


There is a lot to that....however, the problems persist and too often intensify.
And as you post, shallow promises are often made at the taxpayers expense.
Fascists and socialists are both experts at it. 
Different paths, but same destination. Authoritarian rule.

Cuts and poor administration of funding have been causing further distress. It's not just a Trump trait. He's just more obvious (  )


----------



## Johnny b

MisterEd51 said:


> ........................ Biden would never do anything like that because his far left constituents would not allow it.


 Alaskan oil an exception?


----------



## crjdriver

Clinton at least knew he had to work with the majority in congress. Unlike obama and biden. When Clinton lost the house in 94, he moved a little toward the center and became an effective President for the next 6yr. Obama loses the house in 2010 and what does he do, he moves farther left and nothing gets done. 

While I am not a fan of Bill Clinton, at least he is intelligent enough to know he has to work with congress when his party is in the minority. This is one reason why I think obama's "Intelligence" was way overrated.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Alaskan oil an exception?


Oh come on man 
The ONLY reason he is doing that is because even he can figure out that unless the price of fuel comes WAY down, the dims are going to take a HUGE hit in Nov.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Oh come on man
> The ONLY reason he is doing that is because even he can figure out that unless the price of fuel comes WAY down, the dims are going to take a HUGE hit in Nov.


You're dreaming if you think those wells will be in production any time soon.
Even MrEd realized that


----------



## crjdriver

A funny story about Bill Clinton. Back in 1992 I was doing IOE [Initial Operating Experience] with a new Captain. They have to complete at least 25hr with a training Captain before being turned loose on their own.
Enroute we were talking about the upcoming election. The new guy was from Arkansas. He said he knew Bill Clinton personally and if he gets elected, you will see bs like you have never seen before. I said oh come on, all politicians are the same; he was right. The level of bs was higher than I had ever seen before.
The new Captain also had a comment about his wife hillary however I will not post that one


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> ............................
> 
> While I am not a fan of Bill Clinton, at least he is intelligent enough to know he has to work with congress when his party is in the minority. This is one reason why I think obama's "Intelligence" was way overrated.


The way Obama ramrodded The Affordable Care act through Congress seems to have set the pace we see today. A lack of cooperation on important matters.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> A funny story about Bill Clinton. .....


He wasn't called Slick Willy for nothing.


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> You're dreaming if you think those wells will be in production any time soon.
> Even MrEd realized that


I know it will not make any difference in price for a long time however for just about everyone, perception is reality. He will be seen as doing something to combat the "Evil" oil companies. 
If he really wanted to attempt to fix the problem, get rid of useless restrictions on building new refineries. I think the last new refinery was built/opened in the late 1970s or early 80s.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> I know it will not make any difference in price for a long time however for just about everyone, perception is reality. He will be seen as doing something to combat the "Evil" oil companies.
> If he really wanted to attempt to fix the problem, get rid of useless restrictions on building new refineries. I think the last new refinery was built/opened in the late 1970s or early 80s.


Maybe you ought to do a search before you post?

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=29&t=6

2022.
And other recent facilities.

And check out increased outputs.

edit:
And it looks like there isn't enough capacity in Alaska to handle new wells, so it'll probably be exported.
Guess what, you get to save Europe


----------



## Wino

Refining capacity is not a factor and never has been, nor is there a shortage of crude - never has been. Never been a shortage of big oil greed, either!


----------



## crjdriver

From your article:


> However, the newest refinery with significant downstream unit capacity is Marathon's facility in Garyville, Louisiana. That facility came online in 1977 with an initial atmospheric distillation unit capacity of 200,000 b/cd, and as of January 1, 2022, it had a capacity of 585,000 b/cd.


Oh boy. That one has less than 1/10 the capacity of the one built in 77. As I said, get rid of the useless requirements. Then you would see prices come down.


----------



## crjdriver

Wino said:


> Refining capacity is not a factor and never has been, nor is there a shortage of crude - never has been. Never been a shortage of big oil greed, either!


It is not greed. It is called returning a profit to the investors. No company is in business to save the world; they exist to pay their stockholders a reasonable rate of return on their investment. 
I for one am happy the oil industry is not bowing down to biden and taking the blame for his poor decisions OR trying to bail him out. 
Oil stocks have historically returned a large dividend and I am quite happy with the current state of profits by the oil industry.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> From your article:
> 
> Oh boy. That one has less than 1/10 the capacity of the one built in 77. As I said, get rid of the useless requirements. Then you would see prices come down.


lol!!...In other words, expanding their facilities doesn't count towards increased production?

Did Ed put you up to that with his 'New Math'? Ha ha ha ha!


----------



## crjdriver

It is only a very small drop in the bucket. It is an appeasement to try and mitigate all of the bad news and show "It's not my fault" We have OKed refineries. 
Really, do you think that small amount of refined product is going to amount to anything???
Compare that amount to what a normal refinery produces.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> ...............
> I for one am happy the oil industry is not bowing down to biden and taking the blame for his poor decisions OR trying to bail him out.
> .................


What's to blame?
Oil profits are up.
Biden just approved more drilling.

All that tension crj and the necessary pipeline hasn't even been constructed.

Tension will certainly grow in the future as charging stations dot the landscape and gas stations begin to disappear.

Those last ice cars will be dinosaurs looking for their last meal


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> It is only a very small drop in the bucket. It is an appeasement to try and mitigate all of the bad news and show "It's not my fault" We have OKed refineries.
> Really, do you think that small amount of refined product is going to amount to anything???
> Compare that amount to what a normal refinery produces.


Again, what have you got against expanding production at existing sites?


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> Again, what have you got against expanding production at existing sites?


Nothing. As one who has flown over the mass of refineries when departing KMSY, there is not much room to expand. Those refineries are bumped right up against each other with the gulf on one side and the city on the other. Not much room to expand. Same basic thing all along the gulf.

Do not misunderstand, I am all for more oil; more drilling, more refining, more of everything. I will say I am happy with the current state of affairs however it is NOT good for the country. I do like the dividend checks 
AND the stock price.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Nothing. As one who has flown over the mass of refineries when departing KMSY, there is not much room to expand. Those refineries are bumped right up against each other with the gulf on one side and the city on the other. Not much room to expand. Same basic thing all along the gulf.
> 
> Do not misunderstand, I am all for more oil; more drilling, more refining, more of everything. I will say I am happy with the current state of affairs however it is NOT good for the country. I do like the dividend checks
> AND the stock price.


Please explain why you seemed to criticize the expansion of that 1977 facility by almost a factor of 3.
I have no idea where your 10% factor comes from or what it's applied to.
You made a previous statement that simply didn't hold up.



> Do not misunderstand, I am all for more oil; more drilling, more refining, more of everything.


Kinda obvious 



> I do like the dividend checks


Who doesn't


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> .............................. I will say I am happy with the current state of affairs however it is NOT good for the country. I do like the dividend checks
> AND the stock price.


I'm absolutely not satisfied with the current status of the US.
Haven't been for several decades.
If you hadn't noticed during the run-up to the last Presidential election, one of my main arguments for Biden over Trump was that his projected policies weren't aimed at ending my life.
It sounds selfish, but after over 1 million people died from Covid-19, many a result of Trump's initial denial and even his negative attitudes for a healthy society, a good reason
There is more of course.
As liberal as Biden is, he does adhere to the Constitution and the rule of law.
Not so much with the GOP since Reagan and it's intensified to the point of being obviously fascist and criminal under Trump. The GOP is now unrecognizable as republican philosophy.
It'll never be a perfect world, but the extremes now rule politics with appeals for acceptance, both extremes, socialists vs fascists......with a society literally bred for ignorance, unable to determine their own destinies. They look to and depend on promises and attach value to lies.
Some even switch parties and become more rabid .

But I digress.
Ignoring there is no shortage at the moment and that electrification is going to impact the need for refined petroleum products.......
how the hell is any project that takes 5 to 10 years to bring a finished product to market going to solve inflation in the very near future?
( a little critical thinking, please. That's not an argument to restrict oil exploration/production, it's a question of how does a 5-10 year plan solve today's inflationary problems. Your claim, my question )


----------



## crjdriver

Johnny b said:


> ( a little critical thinking, please. That's not an argument to restrict oil exploration/production, it's a question of how does a 5-10 year plan solve today's inflationary problems. Your claim, my question )


Already explained to you. Perception is reality to most people. If biden is seen to be doing something [whether or not it will really do anything] then he is fighting the high cost of fuel. This is one reason why fuel prices when up. Biden canceled the pipeline project. Did it have an impact on the current supply, NO. Canceling the pipeline give the perception of a shortage in oil. 
This along with the actual increased restrictions on the oil industry caused the problem. At a time when America and the world was immerging from lockdowns with the attendant increase in oil demand led to the current situation. 
Even someone as feeble as biden should know that when you decrease supply AND increase demand, you end up with prices going WAY up.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Already explained to you. Perception is reality to most people. If biden is seen to be doing something [whether or not it will really do anything] then he is fighting the high cost of fuel. This is one reason why fuel prices when up. Biden canceled the pipeline project. Did it have an impact on the current supply, NO. Canceling the pipeline give the perception of a shortage in oil.
> This along with the actual increased restrictions on the oil industry caused the problem. At a time when America and the world was immerging from lockdowns with the attendant increase in oil demand led to the current situation.
> Even someone as feeble as biden should know that when you decrease supply AND increase demand, you end up with prices going WAY up.


All I see is a non answer, crj.

Just rhetoric that's passed around many times between right wing blogs and news outlets untill it's accepted as fact......and wishful thinking, nothing relating to capitalistic theory or application.
And ignoring a war that impacts world markets.

You claim speculation is going to solve inflation, now. 
5 to 10 years of it. Really? 
It won't take long for the 'shine' to wear off that imagery. 

Did I mention that problem our society has with promises?


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Already explained to you. Perception is reality to most people. If biden is seen to be doing something [whether or not it will really do anything] then he is fighting the high cost of fuel. This is one reason why fuel prices when up. Biden canceled the pipeline project. Did it have an impact on the current supply, NO. Canceling the pipeline give the perception of a shortage in oil.
> This along with the actual increased restrictions on the oil industry caused the problem. At a time when America and the world was immerging from lockdowns with the attendant increase in oil demand led to the current situation.
> Even someone as feeble as biden should know that when you decrease supply AND increase demand, you end up with prices going WAY up.


Perceptions.
Speculation drives stock prices as the perception of a company's value changes.

Value of commodities in a capitalist model are driven by supply and demand concerns.

You've obviously confused the relationships


----------



## crjdriver

No, not confusing at all. 


> Value of commodities in a capitalist model are driven by supply and demand concerns.


Of course. The perception of a lack of product drives the cost.
You can believe whatever you want. Biden caused a BIG part of the current inflation by canceling the pipeline. What he could have done was promote an increase in drilling, get rid of stupid regulations. Instead, he [biden] just handed the weapon of oil production to putin. Look where that took the world. 
Carter, biden, and johnson; basically, a three-way tie for the worst President in history. AND it only took biden a little over a year; it took carter four years and johnson five years to create so many problems.


----------



## crjdriver

Sadly, there is no Reagan to fix things this time.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Sadly, there is no Reagan to fix things this time.


LOL!



crjdriver said:


> No, not confusing at all.
> 
> Of course. The perception of a lack of product drives the cost.
> You can believe whatever you want...................


I just proved my last point.
You are confusing perception with speculation.
In that, it's essentially comparing reality to possible futures.

As a generality,
Speculation drives stock prices.
Perception of value drives pricing.
And value is subject to supply versus demand pressures.

Anything else is just wishfulness. Or ( shudder ) socialism.


----------



## crjdriver

Yeah, Reagans' approval rating of 68% [highest]
biden's approval rating today 40%
Keep thinking what you want. President Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents of all time. It took a great individual to fix carters' screwups. 
It will take a great individual to fix biden's screwups.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Yeah, Reagans' approval rating of 68% [highest]
> biden's approval rating today 40%
> Keep thinking what you want. President Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents of all time. It took a great individual to fix carters' screwups.
> It will take a great individual to fix biden's screwups.


Living in the past does have some advantages lol!


----------



## crjdriver

Given the choice, I would MUCH rather live in the world in which I grew up. There is not much about the modern world I like.


----------



## Johnny b

crjdriver said:


> Given the choice, I would MUCH rather live in the world in which I grew up. There is not much about the modern world I like.


That I can agree with.
But I suspect I'm a bit older than you are.


----------



## Johnny b

* Gas prices: The 'biggest factor' is Vladimir Putin, says analyst *
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gas-...is-vladimir-putin-says-analyst-154620663.html

That would be analyst Tom Kloza of OPIS



> "The biggest factor is Vladimir Putin. I think he's demonstrated his ability to invoke pain on Western countries and particularly in Europe - and he still has some buttons that he might push, and he's very unpredictable," said Kloza.


further:


> "Secondly, I think you've got the heat and the high temperature and perhaps the instability of some of the grids. But biggest of all is hurricane season," said Kloza. "I think that's a really prevailing updraft for futures prices."


So, who is OPIS......
* Oil Price Information Service *
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Price_Information_Service


> *Oil Price Information Service (OPIS)* is a price-reporting agency, providing information used for commercial contracts and trade settlement related to petroleum, gasoline, diesel, ethanol, biodiesel, LP-gas, jet fuel, crude, natural gas, petrochemicals, recycled plastics, refinery feedstocks, residual fuel, and kerosene.[1][2] It is based in Rockville, Maryland, US and has offices in Wall, New Jersey, Houston, Texas, St. Paul, Minnesota, and in Sweden, Romania, Singapore, and Japan.


----------



## Johnny b

Something to keep an eye on:

* Analysis: Oil majors face output slump, deep losses if Russia stops Kazakh pipeline *
https://www.reuters.com/business/en...s-if-russia-stops-kazakh-pipeline-2022-07-11/



> LONDON, July 11 (Reuters) - Western energy majors will cut output and lose billions of dollars if Russia, as is feared, suspends a pipeline that is almost the only export route for oil from land-locked Kazakhstan, company sources, traders and analysts say.
> 
> The closure of the CPC pipeline that carries oil from Kazakhstan to the Black Sea Russian export terminal in the port of Novorossiisk would shut in more than 1% of global oil supply, exacerbating what is already the most severe energy crunch since the Arab oil embargo in the 1970s. ( edit: in Europe of course  )


Strange....on a quick search, I couldn't find any mention of the above concern at Fox News. 
Maybe they haven't gotten permission yet?

And then there's this:



> Shortly after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, international oil prices spiked to their highest levels since the records of 2008.


----------



## Johnny b

Here's some good news for all those pot heads invested in their favorite sport:
Recreational sales in New Jersey are expected to turn around the maryjane market.

* American Weed Stocks Are Cheap. They're About to Get a Sales Bump. *
https://www.barrons.com/articles/american-weed-stocks-are-cheap-51657478040?siteid=yhoof2


> The recent launch of recreational marijuana sales in New Jersey should lift the sales of some state-licensed weed sellers when they report for the June quarter.


( Barrons....lol )

No wonder no one knows what's going on.....
everybody's smoking pot (  )

Supply and demand issues?


----------



## Johnny b

More to consider on the European energy situation:

* Europe's best defense against Russia's gas squeeze is looking vulnerable *
https://qz.com/2186963/shuttering-n...e-start-of-europes-gas-crisis/?utm_source=YPL

Demand-----> meet supply 

Show of hands: who thinks Trump's buddy, Putin, is our friend?


----------



## Wino

https://lostnotstolen.org//wp-conte...-the-2020-Presidential-Election-July-2022.pdf


----------



## Johnny b

Bannon:


----------



## Wino

Appears Dark Brandon's DOJ and FBI are going after the orange whiner-in-chief at Mar-A-Lardo. Should be an interesting year for all as it appears Brandon is getting things accomplished.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nald-trump-says-fbi-agents-raiding-mar-a-lago


----------



## MisterEd51

I watched Biden's speech last night. I was confused. All the bad things he said about the Republicans was actually how the Democrats are. What do you expect from the Fascist in Chief?

When I was a kid I learned that bullies took the heat off by calling the people they bullied the actual bullies. That lesson has taught me that bullies like Biden think people are dumb enough to fall for such a tactic. Of course a lot of people will repeat Biden's words not because they believe them because they know that if you say a lie enough times a lot of people will start to believe them.


----------



## Couriant

MisterEd51 said:


> I watched Biden's speech last night. I was confused. All the bad things he said about the Republicans was actually how the Democrats are. What do you expect from the Fascist in Chief?
> 
> When I was a kid I learned that bullies took the heat off by calling the people they bullied the actual bullies. That lesson has taught me that bullies like Biden think people are dumb enough to fall for such a tactic. Of course a lot of people will repeat Biden's words not because they believe them because *they know that if you say a lie enough times a lot of people will start to believe them.*


Sounds like a Trump tactic.... oh wait....


----------



## Wino

Calling DJT/MAGA fascist is just calling a spade a spade. Go Dark Brandon !!! YIPPEEKAYAY !!


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> I watched Biden's speech last night. I was confused. All the bad things he said about the Republicans was actually how the Democrats are. What do you expect from the Fascist in Chief?


Indeed it is a disturbing trend that conservative "news" sources use that old schoolyard trick: When told they are fascists they repeat back that the Democrats are fascists. It does not make it true though.
How do we know which side are the true fascists though? We can start with a definition:
Fascism is a far-right, (check)
authoritarian, (check)
ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a (check)
dictatorial leader, (well, Trump wanted to be,)
centralized autocracy, (not there yet)
militarism, (this is a mixed bag, No new significant war has been started since Bush, and Trump clearly does not respect service members, But he did order police to come down hard on BLM protesters)
forcible suppression of opposition (not really ) 
, belief in a natural social hierarchy (check)
, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation (not really)
and race,(check)
and strong regimentation of society and the economy (check)

I guess Biden called the extremist Trump Followers "semi-fascists" because they don't completely fit the description.


----------



## Wino

Attempting to explain political reality to a winger is akin to a bee explaining to a fly why pollen is better than a pile of manure - the fly will never comprehend nor understand the difference.


----------



## Bastiat

SeanLaurence said:


> I guess Biden called the extremist Trump Followers "semi-fascists" because they don't completely fit the description.


Yeah, but they are working on getting rid of the "semi" in their worship of the Orange Jesus.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> Indeed it is a disturbing trend that conservative "news" sources use that old schoolyard trick: When told they are fascists they repeat back that the Democrats are fascists. It does not make it true though.
> How do we know which side are the true fascists though? We can start with a definition:
> Fascism is a far-right, (check)
> authoritarian, (check)
> ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a (check)
> dictatorial leader, (well, Trump wanted to be,)
> centralized autocracy, (not there yet)
> militarism, (this is a mixed bag, No new significant war has been started since Bush, and Trump clearly does not respect service members, But he did order police to come down hard on BLM protesters)
> forcible suppression of opposition (not really )
> , belief in a natural social hierarchy (check)
> , subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation (not really)
> and race,(check)
> and strong regimentation of society and the economy (check)
> 
> I guess Biden called the extremist Trump Followers "semi-fascists" because they don't completely fit the description.


I am not going to respond to the points in your post because you are just parroting the same Democrats talking points. I.E., B.S lies.

It is something how some people twist words around to fit there uninformed thinking.

If actually knew what you were talking about you would really have to admit that the Democrats who are controlled by the far left are actual fascists. No semi to it. (check)

Biden and all his cronies meet every point in the following definition of fascism. If you don't realize that there is no hope for you and the Democrat party.



> Definition of fascism
> 
> 1 : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
> 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


fascism








Definition of FASCISM


a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## Wino

Wingers "can't see the forest for the trees" applies here.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> Wingers "can't see the forest for the trees" applies here.


And people like you only see B.S.

I just don't understand people like you. When I grew up we were taught to love our country and respect what our flag stood for. Now you have Democrats and the far left put down our country and want to tear it apart.

Trump used the term "Make America Great Again" as a way to bring back our longing for the times that patriotism actually meant something. People that use MAGA as a slur just means they hate the United States. Anyone that denies that is not telling the truth.

So, go ahead and keep the B.S. flowing. BTW, at least if you were honest about all this I would have some respect for you. But I guess that is not in your nature.


----------



## Bastiat

MisterEd51 said:


> I just don't understand people like you. When I grew up we were taught to love our country and respect what our flag stood for. Now you have Democrats and the far left put down our country and want to tear it apart.
> 
> Trump used the term "Make America Great Again" as a way to bring back our longing for the times that patriotism actually meant something. People that use MAGA as a slur just means they hate the United States. Anyone that denies that is not telling the truth.


I was on Capitol Hill (a neighborhood surrounding the US Capitol) on January 6th watching your MAGA people expressing their love of country and flag by beating up policeman, defecating on the floor of the Capitol building etc etc. I got to see history up close and personal, and it's a day I'll never forget and truly have a hard time expressing my thoughts about what I saw. Your MAGA people marching down Capitol Hill streets waving your UPSIDE DOWN American flags (great respect!) and just as sickening waving the CONFERDATE FLAG the FRIGGING CONFERDATE FLAG in the middle of the Capitol Rotunda. MAGA losers hailing the Orange Jesus.


----------



## Bastiat

Otherwise, I don't have an opinion.


----------



## MisterEd51

Bastiat said:


> I was on Capitol Hill (a neighborhood surrounding the US Capitol) on January 6th watching your MAGA people expressing their love of country and flag by beating up policeman, defecating on the floor of the Capitol building etc etc. I got to see history up close and personal, and it's a day I'll never forget and truly have a hard time expressing my thoughts about what I saw. Your MAGA people marching down Capitol Hill streets waving your UPSIDE DOWN American flags (great respect!) and just as sickening waving the CONFERDATE FLAG the FRIGGING CONFERDATE FLAG in the middle of the Capitol Rotunda. MAGA losers hailing the Orange Jesus.


Nancy Pelosi is in charge of security at the Capital. She and the FBI knew days in advance of possible unrest on January 6. Nobody wants to answer the question, "Why did she do nothing to upgrade security at the Capital knowing what she did?"

Although some people that were Trump supporters did enter the Capital on January 6 most were not. You said police were beat up that day. Where did you hear that from? The only victims I know of that day was a policemen who had a hard attack after everything was over with and an unarmed woman who was shot dead.

You have selective memory. Democrats and other leftist spend much of 2020 in protests across the country. Some of that turned into riots where billions of dollars in property was destroyed. Some innocent residents of these cities were attacked with some injured or killed. The Democrats stood back and let this happened while saying defund the police.

In the summer of 2020 when Republicans couldn't find a place to hold a convention so they held it at the White House. When they left that at night they were chased, harassed with some Power options threatening violence. There was other times when Democrats and leftists tried to storm the White House grounds. The Secret Service and National Guardsmen had a hard time keeping the rioters from pushing the fence down. Some Secret Servicemen were injured. I guess you somehow forgot about all the other violence that was going on around you!!! 

All in all, the riot on January 6 was a thousand times less than the riots led by Democrats throughout 2020.

What bothers me about Biden and the rest of the Democrats is that they like to throw out words like democracy, rule of law, racism, inclusion, social justice, etc. To Democrats those are just words and have no real meaning behind them. What is more important is how they act. Democrats do their best to silence, threaten, and cancel anyone they don't like. The last few years the Democrats have been using the Justice Department, the FBI, and the courts to selectively go after many Republicans or others that are sympithetic to them. Where is the justice or fairness in that?


----------



## MisterEd51

Bastiat said:


> Otherwise, I don't have an opinion.


Then what do you believe in? Are you like the other leftist Democrats that hate our country and support the tearing down of our cities, our culture, and our families? At least if you admitted that I would understand where all your hatred comes from.


----------



## Bastiat

When you post nothing but lies, Fox News talking points and the deranged rantings of the Orange Jesus your post doesn't need a point-by-point response. The reality is that MAGA scum stormed the United States Capitol with the intent of overthrowing a valid election. It has become apparent that the hardcore MAGA scum can't be dealt with on a rational basis, they need to be marginalized and jailed. The Orange Jesus's days are numbered, he is going to jail but what will hurt him more is the loss of his money and the inability to continue his criminal enterprise.

And, silly, the second post was a joke.


----------



## Wino

Regurgitated winger "Alternative Facts" - normal MAGA projection of themselves. I truly muse at times whether they can see themselves in a mirror. It's akin to Trump saying Christi is "fat, stupid and ugly" - Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.


----------



## Bastiat

I started to do a "Johnny b" type point-by-point response to the MAGA alternate reality talking points, but I have neither Johnny b patience nor the desire to attempt to educate minds that have shutdown to reality, common sense and, more importantly, common decency.


----------



## Wino

Bastiat said:


> I started to do a "Johnny b" type point-by-point response to the MAGA alternate reality talking points, but I have neither Johnny b patience nor the desire to attempt to educate minds that have shutdown to reality, common sense and, more importantly, common decency.


Bears repeating.


----------



## MisterEd51

Bastiat said:


> When you post nothing but lies, Fox News talking points and the deranged rantings of the Orange Jesus your post doesn't need a point-by-point response. The reality is that MAGA scum stormed the United States Capitol with the intent of overthrowing a valid election. It has become apparent that the hardcore MAGA scum can't be dealt with on a rational basis, they need to be marginalized and jailed. The Orange Jesus's days are numbered, he is going to jail but what will hurt him more is the loss of his money and the inability to continue his criminal enterprise.
> 
> And, silly, the second post was a joke.


Since you post nothing but lies then Fox News must be pretty good.


----------



## Bastiat

Brilliant response. Typical MAGA delusion.


----------



## Wino

If ever there was a yuge case of cognitive dissonance or may be just obtuse or both.


----------



## MisterEd51

This thread is like S.E.T.I. We are both searching for intelligent life but have yet to find it.

Some Democrats here like to call people like me names. It is only fair I return the sentiment and give them one. For now on I will refer to them by the well deserved name of Dummies.

Naturally I won't be able to repond to Dummies directly because they are not intelligent enough to make it worthwhile.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> I am not going to respond to the points in your post because you are just parroting the same Democrats talking points. I.E., B.S lies.
> 
> It is something how some people twist words around to fit there uninformed thinking.
> 
> If actually knew what you were talking about you would really have to admit that the Democrats who are controlled by the far left are actual fascists. No semi to it. (check)
> 
> Biden and all his cronies meet every point in the following definition of fascism. If you don't realize that there is no hope for you and the Democrat party.
> 
> 
> 
> fascism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of FASCISM
> 
> 
> a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com


Here is an article published in the left leaning VOX discussing how fasciet may mot be an apt word for Trump. Mind you, it was written before the insurrection of Jan 6, 2021








Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.


Call him a kleptocrat, an oligarch, a xenophobe, a racist, even an authoritarian. But he doesn’t quite fit the definition of a fascist.




www.vox.com





To call Democrats "Fascist" is ridiculous however. State your case.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Nancy Pelosi is in charge of security at the Capital. She and the FBI knew days in advance of possible unrest on January 6. Nobody wants to answer the question, "Why did she do nothing to upgrade security at the Capital knowing what she did?"


But that's wrong. The Capitol Police are overseen by a number of entities and individuals, none of whom are Pelosi.
The agency is overseen by the Capitol Police Board. Several congressional committees also oversee the agency, including the House and Senate appropriations committees, the House administration committee and the Senate rules committee.

The Capitol Police Board is made up of the House and Senate sergeants-at-arms, as well as the Capitol architect. The Capitol Police chief serves in a non-voting capacity on the board, according to the Capitol Police website. 

Pelosi was not a chair or administrator of any committee supervising the Capitol Police at the time of the insurrection. She's not listed on any of those committees' websites today, either. 

Jane L. Campbell, president of the U.S. Capitol Historical Society, told CNN "the Speaker of the House does not oversee security of the U.S. Capitol, nor does this official oversee the Capitol Police Board."



> Although some people that were Trump supporters did enter the Capital on January 6 most were not. You said police were beat up that day. Where did you hear that from? The only victims I know of that day was a policemen who had a hard attack after everything was over with and an unarmed woman who was shot dead.


https://webcache.googleusercontent....77b5b0297_story.html&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca[/URL]




> You have selective memory. Democrats and other leftist spend much of 2020 in protests across the country. Some of that turned into riots where billions of dollars in property was destroyed. Some innocent residents of these cities were attacked with some injured or killed. The Democrats stood back and let this happened while saying defund the police.


Indeed, The George Floyd and BLM riots were costly in terms of property damage. And there were injuries and deaths involved. But this is a Biden thread, and you are trying to blame Democrats for civil unrest that occurred under Trump's watch. Democrat leaders did condemn the acts of violence and the perpetrators are being brought to justice.



> In the summer of 2020 when Republicans couldn't find a place to hold a convention so they held it at the White House. When they left that at night they were chased, harassed with some Power options threatening violence. There was other times when Democrats and leftists tried to storm the White House grounds. The Secret Service and National Guardsmen had a hard time keeping the rioters from pushing the fence down. Some Secret Servicemen were injured. I guess you somehow forgot about all the other violence that was going on around you!!!


Republicans had trouble finding a venue for their convention because they wanted to ignore pandemic hygiene. I have not seen any reporting that they were harassed.
The violence that occurred around the White House that you are referring to was instigated by police actions. The protesters were peacefully hanging out in Lafayette Park prior to the police arriving to clear them out.


> All in all, the riot on January 6 was a thousand times less than the riots led by Democrats throughout 2020.


The scale of the riot is not what is significant. As is always the case in law, it is the INTENT. The intent of the Jan 6 riot was to disrupt the transfer of power with the goal to keep Trump in office as president.



> What bothers me about Biden and the rest of the Democrats is that they like to throw out words like democracy, rule of law, racism, inclusion, social justice, etc. To Democrats those are just words and have no real meaning behind them. What is more important is how they act. Democrats do their best to silence, threaten, and cancel anyone they don't like. The last few years the Democrats have been using the Justice Department, the FBI, and the courts to selectively go after many Republicans or others that are sympithetic to them. Where is the justice or fairness in that?


Democrats use those words correctly and judiciously. Do Republicans?
The DOJ and FBI have not been given direction from the Executive branch. It is their job to investigate and prosecute crime. If there investigations find nothing, then they will not prosecute. Case in point: They found no wrongdoing in the case of Hillary's emails.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> Here is an article published in the left leaning VOX discussing how fasciet may mot be an apt word for Trump. Mind you, it was written before the insurrection of Jan 6, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.
> 
> 
> Call him a kleptocrat, an oligarch, a xenophobe, a racist, even an authoritarian. But he doesn’t quite fit the definition of a fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To call Democrats "Fascist" is ridiculous however. State your case.


Of course Democrats don't call themselves fascists. Why should they when they don't have to. I guess it doesn't matter to you that they act like fascists.

You need to reread the definition of fascism and look at yourself in the mirror. I bet you will see a fascist.



> Definition of fascism
> 
> 1 : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
> 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control


Edward B. Harmon: Democrats are rushing toward fascism








Edward B. Harmon: Democrats are rushing toward fascism


When candidate Donald Trump stated in a presidential debate that he would have to think about whether he would accept the election results if Clinton won, the media and Hillary correctly attacked him…



www.gainesville.com





BTW, I really shouldn't be stating anything to you. Being a good mind numbed Dumocrat you won't believe anything your leftist masters have not told you.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Of course Democrats don't call themselves fascists. Why should they when they don't have to. I guess it doesn't matter to you that they act like fascists.
> 
> You need to reread the definition of fascism and look at yourself in the mirror. I bet you will see a fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> Edward B. Harmon: Democrats are rushing toward fascism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward B. Harmon: Democrats are rushing toward fascism
> 
> 
> When candidate Donald Trump stated in a presidential debate that he would have to think about whether he would accept the election results if Clinton won, the media and Hillary correctly attacked him…
> 
> 
> 
> www.gainesville.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I really shouldn't be stating anything to you. Being a good mind numbed Dumocrat you won't believe anything your leftist masters have not told you.


There is no "Democrat" party where I live, so I have no affiliation.
Reading the linked Edward B. Harmon article:

I did not know about the Kennedy - Nixon Illinois controversy, but a quick look found: "There was insufficient evidence that Nixon had been cheated out of winning Illinois.
Even if enough legitimate systemic fraud was discovered in Illinois to give Nixon the state, that alone would not have been enough to win him the presidency. Kennedy would've still been left with 276 electoral votes, seven more than what he needed to win the white house.

And while there were protests (calling them riots is disingenuous) following Trump's inauguration, They were not about the election being stolen, rather, they "expressed opposition to Trump's campaign rhetoric, his electoral win, his inauguration, his alleged history of sexual misconduct and various presidential actions, most notably his aggressive family separation policy."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Donald_Trump



In the mean time, something smells in Kentucky and any other state that uses Election Systems & Software voting machines








Mitch McConnell's Re-Election: The Numbers Don't Add Up | DCReport.org


Mitch McConnell's Re-Election: The Numbers Don't Add Up. How Does an 18% Approval Rating Result in a 58% Win for the Senator?




www.dcreport.org





Edward B. Harmon writes:
"If anyone expresses opposition to Democratic positions, such as infanticide, reparations, open borders or “free stuff,” Democrats react as fascists."

Is infanticide code for abortion? That kind of hyperbole is not called for in civilized debate. And Democrat reaction has been far from fascists. They are calling on everyone to get out and vote for the midterms.

He calls attention to the plight of a Conservative 'reporter' in Portland. The reality is more nuanced:








How a Right-Wing Troll Managed to Manipulate the Mainstream Media


When a milkshake to the face brought the spotlight on Andy Ngo, politicians and talking heads on both sides were happy to take on his cause: demonizing antifa




www.rollingstone.com





Anyway, I am done fact checking this tripe.


----------



## MisterEd51

A Bottomless Pinocchio for Biden — and other recent gaffes


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/07/bottomless-pinocchio-biden-other-recent-gaffes


----------



## Wino

So looking forward to Big Announcement on 15th which I'm sure will have dark Brandon quaking in his boots. It really must sux being a trumpist - so much winning !!!! LOL


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> So looking forward to Big Announcement on 15th which I'm sure will have dark Brandon quaking in his boots. It really must sux being a trumpist - so much winning !!!! LOL


Yea it sucks to me an American where so many people like inflation with high prices, hate the United States, and and love to have a senile old fool for a President. Ideology for the Democrats is more important than their own well being.

Forty years ago the fascists and Marxists started infiltrating higher education. Eventually the propaganda they received spread to high school and elementary teachers. Now at least 40% of Americans have received this far left education. It is apparent you have been well indoctrinated.


----------



## Wino

YAWN!! Brain eating amoebas would die of starvation on a MAGA. LOL


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> YAWN!! Brain eating amoebas would die of starvation on a MAGA. LOL


Typical Democrat. Cause misery to millions of Americans and all you can do is call names. At least you could acknowledge it and if you had any self respect you would apologize for voting for the idiots that are doing this to us.

BTW, it really says a lot about you when you are saying LOL! Is all this misery really that funny?


----------



## Wino

I'm an Independent moderate leaning left and right depending on subject plus a realist. And unlike you, not miserable nor a proselytizer. DJT and MAGA's are right out of 3rd world tin pot dictator wannabees. I lived under that for many years as an ex-pat, so against seeing it happen here.
LOL is directed at YOU and your ILK, not real Americans who truly love freedom and this democracy of ours.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Yea it sucks to me an American where so many people like inflation with high prices, hate the United States, and and love to have a senile old fool for a President. Ideology for the Democrats is more important than their own well being.
> 
> Forty years ago the fascists and Marxists started infiltrating higher education. Eventually the propaganda they received spread to high school and elementary teachers. Now at least 40% of Americans have received this far left education. It is apparent you have been well indoctrinated.


Sadly, Inflation is a reality for much of the world. Something to do with increased government spending and supply chain disruptions due to the pandemic. If you think that Joe Biden is to blame for it you would be mistaken. In any case, Dems did perform better than most expected in the midterms. How many conservative news commentators predicted a "Red Wave"?
Looks like the Senate is at least 50 - 50 still if not 51 - 49 Democrat after Georgia is sorted. House of Reps may stay in Democrat control as well.

As far as your assertions that schools have fallen into the sway of "fascists and Marxists" is concerned: It seems you have spent too much time watching Fox news and not enough time in classrooms.


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> Sadly, Inflation is a reality for much of the world. Something to do with increased government spending and supply chain disruptions due to the pandemic. If you think that Joe Biden is to blame for it you would be mistaken. In any case, Dems did perform better than most expected in the midterms. How many conservative news commentators predicted a "Red Wave"?
> Looks like the Senate is at least 50 - 50 still if not 51 - 49 Democrat after Georgia is sorted. House of Reps may stay in Democrat control as well.
> 
> As far as your assertions that schools have fallen into the sway of "fascists and Marxists" is concerned: It seems you have spent too much time watching Fox news and not enough time in classrooms.


Typical Democrat..Biden and his Democrats are mostly to blame for inflation but a lot of other counties did the same thing so it is not his fault. 

You totally forgot to include Biden's war on fossil fuels. Before Biden took office the U.S. was energy independent. Biden increased regulations and put enough roadblocks to discourage new production of fossil fuels. Biden has been going around the world begging other countries to produce more oil while discouraging the same in the U.S. Since Putin either has cut or threatened to cut gas to Europe, Biden should have eliminated restrictions for the U.S. to make up for that loss.

The high cost of energy is just as important as the excess spending for causing inflation. Biden is not only responsible for both but he brags about it. 

Biden has said that it's oil companies greed and their gouging that has caused high gas prices. He also want to punish them by increasing taxes on them. What he says about the oil companies is a total lie. What a farce to blame the oil companies for something he caused. Biden also says he want to put the fossil fuel industry out of business. Biden has also discouraged financial institutions from investing in the fossil fuel industry. What fossil fuel company wants to increase production against that headwind.

You mean Critical Race Theory and Woke is not being pushed by the left in schools? If you deny that you are denying reality. Both of these theories have roots in Marxism.


----------



## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Typical Democrat.


Ummmm Last I checked, as a Canadian I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. Do you make assumptions like this with all your arguments?



> .Biden and his Democrats are mostly to blame for inflation but a lot of other counties did the same thing so it is not his fault.


Have you looked at the numbers? Inflation started spiking pretty much the moment that Biden took office. Worldwide. You know what also happened at that time? The winter covid spike waned and the vaccines were broadly administered .



> You totally forgot to include Biden's war on fossil fuels. Before Biden took office the U.S. was energy independent. Biden increased regulations and put enough roadblocks to discourage new production of fossil fuels. Biden has been going around the world begging other countries to produce more oil while discouraging the same in the U.S. Since Putin either has cut or threatened to cut gas to Europe, Biden should have eliminated restrictions for the U.S. to make up for that loss.


I have not forgotten Biden's war on fossil fuels. It is/was a non event. Again, look at the numbers. If you look at US domestic oil production it is the same as it ever was. If you want to blame oil companies for raising prices for the sake of making profits and hurting Biden politically, then I would accept that premise. The idea that the US lost its "energy independence" under Biden is a bold faced lie.



> The high cost of energy is just as important as the excess spending for causing inflation. Biden is not only responsible for both but he brags about it.


I agree that the cost of energy and the excess money supply are 2 of the 3 causes of today's inflation. The third is the disruption of supply chains.



> Biden has said that it's oil companies greed and their gouging that has caused high gas prices. He also want to punish them by increasing taxes on them. What he says about the oil companies is a total lie. What a farce to blame the oil companies for something he caused. Biden also says he want to put the fossil fuel industry out of business. Biden has also discouraged financial institutions from investing in the fossil fuel industry. What fossil fuel company wants to increase production against that headwind.


How would you know that there has not been price gouging in the oil industry? What is your source? 
From what I have seen, that is a big part of the higher gas prices we are seeing today. The other reasons are: the end of the Saudi / Russian oil price war. Sanctions on Russia, and Increased post pandemic consumer demand for oil.



> You mean Critical Race Theory and Woke is not being pushed by the left in schools? If you deny that you are denying reality. Both of these theories have roots in Marxism.


Why do you have your knickers in a twist over "Critical race theory" and "Woke" culture? These are Fox news talking points. I bet you can't even explain what these ideas are and why you think they are "bad"


----------



## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> Ummmm Last I checked, as a Canadian I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. Do you make assumptions like this with all your arguments?


Oh, you're not even a U.S. citizen!!! I really don't care what you think.


----------



## Wino

Hey!! Guess who doesn't have a corporation named after them that has been convicted of tax fraud??

JOE "BRANDON" BIDEN!!!


----------



## Couriant

MisterEd51 said:


> Oh, you're not even a U.S. citizen!!! I really don't care what you think.


To be fair, you don't care what anyone other than MAGA followers think so...  

It is a good thing to have outsiders from the doctrination that is the US Politic System. I too am an outsider and still smell BS 1000 miles away. I still don't understand how a person that is running for President be allowed to do so when they have a direct family member in the one state that is a swing state, and the last one to get in votes (who they narrowly won). That should be a disqualification in my book due to conflict of interest.... but anyways that's for a different thread.


----------



## MisterEd51

Couriant said:


> To be fair, you don't care what anyone other than MAGA followers think so...
> 
> It is a good thing to have outsiders from the doctrination that is the US Politic System. I too am an outsider and still smell BS 1000 miles away. I still don't understand how a person that is running for President be allowed to do so when they have a direct family member in the one state that is a swing state, and the last one to get in votes (who they narrowly won). That should be a disqualification in my book due to conflict of interest.... but anyways that's for a different thread.


That's not true. I do care what people of all political beliefs think. The problem is that most Dumocrats don't have enough gray matter to say anything intelligent.


----------



## Wino

In response to Trumps NFT card grift, Dark Brandon posted:


> Biden, who is not known for his online presence the way Trump is, tweeted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had some MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS the last couple of weeks, too…
> ✔ Inflation’s easing
> ✔ I just signed the Respect for Marriage Act
> ✔ We brought Brittney Griner home
> ✔ Gas prices are lower than a year ago
> ✔ 10,000 new high-paying jobs in Arizona
Click to expand...

You just can't make this silly crap up!!! Difficult to believe DJT was ever POTUS!! How embarrassing it must be for his idiot family.


----------



## MisterEd51

Wino said:


> In response to Trumps NFT card grift, Dark Brandon posted:
> 
> You just can't make this silly crap up!!! Difficult to believe DJT was ever POTUS!! How embarrassing it must be for his idiot family.


Yada yada.


----------



## Wino

Enjoy Monday 12 noon CST. This one's for you and your ilk.


----------



## Wino

Stellar week for the grifter ex prez - J6 x 4 criminal charges; taxes to be released; phony NFT's for idiots; creme de la creme week for the Trumpster - and it's only Tuesday. J6 report release tomorrow. Great start for Christmas weekend and start of new year. RWNJ caterwauling off the scale. Gas $2.35/gal - damn that Dark Brandon!!!


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> Stellar week for the grifter ex prez - J6 x 4 criminal charges; taxes to be released; phony NFT's for idiots; creme de la creme week for the Trumpster - and it's only Tuesday. J6 report release tomorrow. Great start for Christmas weekend and start of new year. RWNJ caterwauling off the scale. Gas $2.35/gal - damn that Dark Brandon!!!




What did it take you, like 6 years to get his tax returns and create false charge against Trump? Surely, your side has been gifted with superior intelligence. Or maybe it's just because most democratic politicians have no moral compass?

There is *no legal requirement* of any kind that presidential candidates release tax returns from any year. Indeed, there is a strict, strong *constitutional right to privacy* for all tax returns. Thus, tax returns can be released by an individual taxpayer, *but cannot released by the IRS to the public.*

Who's being unconstitutional again?


----------



## Wino

So how many of the NFT's did you buy??


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> So how many of the NFT's did you buy??


So this is called "changing" the subject and avoiding two relevant questions...


----------



## Wino

IRS didn't release to public. House panel did - legally. Seems Mnuchin was CYA'ing for the crook. Presidents and V.P.s subject to annual audits, but you know that.


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> IRS didn't release to public. House panel did - legally. Seems Mnuchin was CYA'ing for the crook. Presidents and V.P.s subject to annual audits, but you know that.


Under what statute were they able to get Trumps tax returns?


----------



## Wino

Google is your friend.



Under what statute were they able to get Trumps tax returns? - Google Search


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> Google is your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Under what statute were they able to get Trumps tax returns? - Google Search


Neal needs to demonstrate a legitimate legislative purpose in order to review the president’s returns, and it has to be reviewed confidentially. Again, that's pretty thin ice to be walking on... might end up in prison. Just like anything else, you need a starting point....and there is no just cause my friend, which is why Neal won't comment on that.


----------



## Wino

Obviously, SCOTUS disagrees, making your opinion moot.


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> Obviously, SCOTUS disagrees, making your opinion moot.


Bottom line its unconstitutional what they are doing to Trump.
And LOL @ the six year effort, probably will go down in flames like every other lame attempt by democrats to de-rail trump. Oh wait, they did have one win over Trump, because Biden sure as hell won that election by a long shot.


----------



## Wino

Trust me - he isn't gonna skate this time - some of his crimes will stick, he will be convicted, may never spend time in jail, may cost him (on your money), but he will never set foot in oval office again as leader of the free world. He will go down as the worst prez ever in our history along with being the most egregious error ever made by USA in it's history - electing the putz as POTUS.
There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about what's happening to Trump regardless of what you think and HIS courts agree.


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> Trust me - he isn't gonna skate this time - some of his crimes will stick, he will be convicted, may never spend time in jail, may cost him (on your money), but he will never set foot in oval office again as leader of the free world. He will go down as the worst prez ever in our history along with being the most egregious error ever made by USA in it's history - electing the putz as POTUS.
> There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about what's happening to Trump regardless of what you think and HIS courts agree.


Trump was the best president since Abraham Lincoln. Obama could hold a candle to the power he possessed, because he was sold out to special interests (namely the devil). 

Bottom line, the courts are in the wrong. How dare they treat a former president of the UNITED STATES this way. By the way, the way the law is written, and the law the democrats are attempting to take advantage of is essentially limited to only current officials or employees. Trump is neither. 

Sure as hell have a lot more problems under Biden, wouldn't you say?


----------



## Wino

You are truly delusional my friend. Happy Holidays !!


----------



## MisterEd51

frozen igloo said:


> Trump was the best president since Abraham Lincoln. Obama could hold a candle to the power he possessed, because he was sold out to special interests (namely the devil).
> 
> Bottom line, the courts are in the wrong. How dare they treat a former president of the UNITED STATES this way. By the way, the way the law is written, and the law the democrats are attempting to take advantage of is essentially limited to only current officials or employees. Trump is neither.
> 
> Sure as hell have a lot more problems under Biden, wouldn't you say?


I agree with everything you said.  I was beginning to think everyone else posting on here was clueless.

They only keep going after Trump because they can't control him. They only want someone as president that they can pull the strings and dance like Biden does.


----------



## frozen igloo

Wino said:


> You are truly delusional my friend. Happy Holidays !!


Merry Christmas. 

You really think we had a more rocky road under Trump? Name a few things and we shall see how the two compare.


----------



## frozen igloo

MisterEd51 said:


> They only keep going after Trump because they can't control him. They only want someone as president that they can pull the strings and dance like Biden does


Exactly. These guys wont see the danger of their manipulative ways until it's too late.

The mission is to stop Trump by any means necessary. Because if he gets back in office, the collective left is going to jail.


----------



## MisterEd51

frozen igloo said:


> Exactly. These guys wont see the danger of their manipulative ways until it's too late.
> 
> The mission is to stop Trump by any means necessary. Because if he gets back in office, the collective left is going to jail.


Unfortunately, even if Trump got back in office nobody would go to jail. The left controls the Justice Department including the FBI. Even the NIA and CIA are probably also compromised. Then there is all the the career federal workers who dislike him and and mainstream media including social media who despise him. Most of the same people who were against him when he was president before will still be there if were elected again. The only thing going for him are is there are hopefully fewer RINOs and the change at Twitter. I take that back. Some Republicans that supported him before 2021 blame him for January 6. That offsets any gains from losing the RINOs.


----------



## valis

frozen igloo said:


> Trump was the best president since Abraham Lincoln. Obama could hold a candle to the power he possessed, because he was sold out to special interests (namely the devil).
> 
> Bottom line, the courts are in the wrong. How dare they treat a former president of the UNITED STATES this way. By the way, the way the law is written, and the law the democrats are attempting to take advantage of is essentially limited to only current officials or employees. Trump is neither.
> 
> Sure as hell have a lot more problems under Biden, wouldn't you say?


Lol....


----------



## valis

frozen igloo said:


> Merry Christmas.
> 
> You really think we had a more rocky road under Trump? Name a few things and we shall see how the two compare.


Okie doke.

Homophobia, misogyeny, racial tensions, for chrissakes the wall...need i go on?


----------



## Wino

valis said:


> Okie doke.
> 
> Homophobia, misogyeny, racial tensions, for chrissakes the wall...need i go on?


Using his tiny hands to wipe his obese butt with the Constitution along with using it as a floor mat to wipe his feet. Going to enjoy his indictment(s) from NY, Georgia and Mr. Smith & Garland, and now, probably IRS. Should be an entertaining year thanks to the orange putz and his acolytes. Trump crimes against the US have been committed and he will be punished.


----------



## MisterEd51

valis said:


> Okie doke.
> 
> Homophobia, misogyeny, racial tensions, for chrissakes the wall...need i go on?


Based on what??? Ever since Obama was elected President Democrats and the main stream media have been wrongly accusing Republicans of being racists and homophobes. Eventually the smears stuck. All that was simply lies. As far as I am concerned most of that is the fault of all the liars out there. If you want to continue the lies and smears then join the club of whom to blame.

If you want to make things better in the coming year you ought to make a New Years resolution to stop the hate and lies at least on your part. Nothing is going to change until people do this. The balls in your court. Are you up for the game?

BTW, when Obama was President a prominent black person in my town asked me how I could be a Republican when he was convinced that all Republicans were racists. He apologized for his wrong thinking because I chose to work at a community center he oversaw that served mainly black people. My job was to help people learn to use the computers they had. I helped everyone equally.


----------



## frozen igloo

valis said:


> Okie doke.
> 
> Homophobia, misogyeny, racial tensions, for chrissakes the wall...need i go on?


Crime rates? Murders? Mass shootings? Deaths? Do your homework before posting please.


----------



## valis

Lol. Cannot help those who refuse to see. The old 'lead a horse to water' saw.


----------



## valis

MisterEd51 said:


> Based on what??? Ever since Obama was elected President Democrats and the main stream media have been wrongly accusing Republicans of being racists and homophobes. Eventually the smears stuck. All that was simply lies. As far as I am concerned most of that is the fault of all the liars out there. If you want to continue the lies and smears then join the club of whom to blame.
> 
> If you want to make things better in the coming year you ought to make a New Years resolution to stop the hate and lies at least on your part. Nothing is going to change until people do this. The balls in your court. Are you up for the game?
> 
> BTW, when Obama was President a prominent black person in my town asked me how I could be a Republican when he was convinced that all Republicans were racists. He apologized for his wrong thinking because I chose to work at a community center he oversaw that served mainly black people. My job was to help people learn to use the computers they had. I helped everyone equally.


See, this is the problem. It isnt about dem or rep...it should be what is best for the American people. You will never understand that, as you need to have a figurehead to kowtow to.

Try to think outside of your tiny little heavily-barred box. Trump was a pox upon the land. Period. I would love nothing more than to see him in cuffs.

What, 6 bankruptcies? Yeah. A genius.

He is a con man and you bought into it.


----------



## MisterEd51

valis said:


> See, this is the problem. It isnt about dem or rep...it should be what is best for the American people. You will never understand that, as you need to have a figurehead to kowtow to.
> 
> Try to think outside of your tiny little heavily-barred box. Trump was a pox upon the land. Period. I would love nothing more than to see him in cuffs.
> 
> What, 6 bankruptcies? Yeah. A genius.
> 
> He is a con man and you bought into it.


People like you are a pox upon the land. People like you think modern Democrats are not like fascists. Have you actually compared the two? You will find they have a lot in common. Do you really think fascism is what is best for all Americans? WOW!! 

Democrats always talk about Democracy. What a joke. To them Democracy means to eliminate all opposition and then allow people to freely vote whoever is left.

Democrats always talk about free speech. What a joke. To them free speech means to eliminate all opposing speech and then allow people to freely read whatever is left.

You are the blind one. Have you actually been listening to what the Democrats have been saying the last four plus years? It is Democrats who want to punish and jail people who oppose their politics.

It is the Democrats who want top silence people who oppose their views. If you want enlightenment just read what the Democrats did with Twitter. They and the FBI colluded with tech media including Twitter to stifle free speech. The last three years they shut down and shadow banned anyone that objected with what the governments position was on COVID and other health information. 

Have you forgotten Joe Biden's 'Ministry of Truth'? That is straight out of the book 1984. If you haven't read it you should. If you do then you will see fascism in action and how much it is like what the modern Democrats are trying to do.

Do you know anything about real science? Real science depends upon free and unfettered debate. The Democrats definition of science is that it is settled and is defined by their so called experts. 

It is obvious that the average Democrat like you knows nothing about the Constitution and real science. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?


----------



## valis

MisterEd51 said:


> People like you are a pox upon the land. People like you think modern Democrats are not like fascists. Have you actually compared the two? You will find they have a lot in common. Do you really think fascism is what is best for all Americans? WOW!!
> 
> Democrats always talk about Democracy. What a joke. To them Democracy means to eliminate all opposition and then allow people to freely vote whoever is left.
> 
> Democrats always talk about free speech. What a joke. To them free speech means to eliminate all opposing speech and then allow people to freely read whatever is left.
> 
> You are the blind one. Have you actually been listening to what the Democrats have been saying the last four plus years? It is Democrats who want to punish and jail people who oppose their politics.
> 
> It is the Democrats who want top silence people who oppose their views. If you want enlightenment just read what the Democrats did with Twitter. They and the FBI colluded with tech media including Twitter to stifle free speech. The last three years they shut down and shadow banned anyone that objected with what the governments position was on COVID and other health information.
> 
> Have you forgotten Joe Biden's 'Ministry of Truth'? That is straight out of the book 1984. If you haven't read it you should. If you do then you will see fascism in action and how much it is like what the modern Democrats are trying to do.
> 
> Do you know anything about real science? Real science depends upon free and unfettered debate. The Democrats definition of science is that it is settled and is defined by their so called experts.
> 
> It is obvious that the average Democrat like you knows nothing about the Constitution and real science. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?


I am neither a democrat, nor a republican. Nor am I a Nazi or a commie sympathiser. Nor fascist, hippie, stormtrooper, et al.

I want what is best for the people. I think it was Jefferson (could easily be wrong, but it was a founding father...you should know this as you are a MAGA person) who said a two party system will tear this country apart and I completely agree.

Look at our healthcare.
At our schools.
At our gun violence (that really bugs me as I grew up with them and load my own).
At our homeless.


These...THESE are the issues we need to address. No president ever will, because, AGAIN, figurehead. Its a popularity contest.

Do I have the answers? Not a chance. But I will state 2 things; Trump did far more harm than good, and he did it solely for his benefit. Anyone with an IQ above that of coleslaw knows that.


----------



## valis

MisterEd51 said:


> People like you are a pox upon the land. People like you think modern Democrats are not like fascists. Have you actually compared the two? You will find they have a lot in common. Do you really think fascism is what is best for all Americans? WOW!!
> 
> Democrats always talk about Democracy. What a joke. To them Democracy means to eliminate all opposition and then allow people to freely vote whoever is left.
> 
> Democrats always talk about free speech. What a joke. To them free speech means to eliminate all opposing speech and then allow people to freely read whatever is left.
> 
> You are the blind one. Have you actually been listening to what the Democrats have been saying the last four plus years? It is Democrats who want to punish and jail people who oppose their politics.
> 
> It is the Democrats who want top silence people who oppose their views. If you want enlightenment just read what the Democrats did with Twitter. They and the FBI colluded with tech media including Twitter to stifle free speech. The last three years they shut down and shadow banned anyone that objected with what the governments position was on COVID and other health information.
> 
> Have you forgotten Joe Biden's 'Ministry of Truth'? That is straight out of the book 1984. If you haven't read it you should. If you do then you will see fascism in action and how much it is like what the modern Democrats are trying to do.
> 
> Do you know anything about real science? Real science depends upon free and unfettered debate. The Democrats definition of science is that it is settled and is defined by their so called experts.
> 
> It is obvious that the average Democrat like you knows nothing about the Constitution and real science. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?


Sorry, it was John Adams who said that.

Cmon, constitution boi! You should have known that. MAGA!!!

LOL.









America Is Now the Divided Republic the Framers Feared


John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass.




www.theatlantic.com


----------



## MisterEd51

What's with this MAGA trashing garbage? Trump said Make America Great Again (MAGA). What's wrong with that? That sounds a lot like what I learned in civics when I was in elementary school.

What do you want to make great? Democrats? China? Then what?

The Democrats are all about trashing our country. They say America was never a great country. They also say they need to tear our country apart down to the core and rebuild it. That includes shredding our Constitution. The Democrats are for a changeable living constitution that changes with the will of those in charge. Oh I forgot American traditions. They want those discarded too and changed to what their whims are at the moment.

To Democrats it makes no difference that the average American wants none of this garbage. The Democrats message to the average American is to just shut up and accept the changes they want. 

My message is I would like you to shut up because I don't accept any of your garbage either.


----------



## valis

Dude...you soooo missed my point.
Again, old bean, follow your founding fathers advice and MAGA!


----------



## MisterEd51

valis said:


> Dude...you soooo missed my point.
> Again, old bean, follow your founding fathers advice and MAGA!


And you missed my point. What do you believe in?
Again, old bean, it is apparent you follow your founding fathers advice namely Stalin and Mao.


----------



## valis

Nope, more along the lines of Adams and Jefferson.

2 parties will be the death of this country.

Do you, constitution boi, dispute that Adams, a founding father, stated that?
This is MAGA per the founding fathers. Hard to get a better source.
But yeah, do you deny he said that?


----------



## MisterEd51

valis said:


> Nope, more along the lines of Adams and Jefferson.
> 
> 2 parties will be the death of this country.
> 
> Do you, constitution boi, dispute that Adams, a founding father, stated that?
> This is MAGA per the founding fathers. Hard to get a better source.
> But yeah, do you deny he said that?


Meaningless dribble. What do stand for?


----------



## trekguy

frozen igloo said:


> Merry Christmas.
> 
> You really think we had a more rocky road under Trump? Name a few things and we shall see how the two compare.


Rocky road items:
Trump tax "reform"... the super rich and big corporations made out like bandits. The estimated costs are somewhere around $1.5T.
Trump pressured OPEC/Saudis in 2019 to increase crude oil production just so gas prices would be lower on his watch. A rocky road for the hundreds of US startup oil companies that went belly-up because of it.
Trump's epic failure with the Covid pandemic. Ignored it, lied about it, and admitted that he lied about it. He's also one of the root causes for the belief in treatments that don't work and/or are dangerous, and also for the mistrust in the vaccines and the doctors that developed them. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are gone because of that.
Trump trade war with China was a rocky road for farmers who went bankrupt because of tanking corn and soybean prices.
Trump requested OPEC/Saudis to cut oil production in 2020... why? So gas prices would go up on Biden's watch. Also, he knew after the botched Covid, stock market drop, and unemployment up... he was losing in Nov... and he wanted it to be as bad as possible. 
Withdrawal from Afghanistan... again, he knew he was losing in Nov... so, to make Biden look bad, he made deals with the Taliban for the release of 5000 Taliban fighters from Afghan prisons, and also the release of a Taliban official from a Pakistani prison, while at the same time, drawing down US troop levels to just 2500... by Jan 15. Jan 15... a week before Biden's inauguration. A very rocky road for the 2500 troops would have to somehow get US contractors out, disable equipment that was to be left there, and get themselves out as safely as possible. And they did an amazing job considering they were hamstrung by the buffoon Trump! Putting our troops in more danger as a political ploy is more than disgusting!
Trump stealing classified and top secret documents could prove to be a rocky road for many in the intelligence community, and for us in general depending on who ends up with sensitive information.
Traitor Trump's insurrection proved to be very rocky for DC police who were injured, and died on that day. 

Ok, let's compare!!


----------



## MisterEd51

trekguy said:


> Rocky road items:
> Trump tax "reform"... the super rich and big corporations made out like bandits. The estimated costs are somewhere around $1.5T.
> Trump pressured OPEC/Saudis in 2019 to increase crude oil production just so gas prices would be lower on his watch. A rocky road for the hundreds of US startup oil companies that went belly-up because of it.
> Trump's epic failure with the Covid pandemic. Ignored it, lied about it, and admitted that he lied about it. He's also one of the root causes for the belief in treatments that don't work and/or are dangerous, and also for the mistrust in the vaccines and the doctors that developed them. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are gone because of that.
> Trump trade war with China was a rocky road for farmers who went bankrupt because of tanking corn and soybean prices.
> Trump requested OPEC/Saudis to cut oil production in 2020... why? So gas prices would go up on Biden's watch. Also, he knew after the botched Covid, stock market drop, and unemployment up... he was losing in Nov... and he wanted it to be as bad as possible.
> Withdrawal from Afghanistan... again, he knew he was losing in Nov... so, to make Biden look bad, he made deals with the Taliban for the release of 5000 Taliban fighters from Afghan prisons, and also the release of a Taliban official from a Pakistani prison, while at the same time, drawing down US troop levels to just 2500... by Jan 15. Jan 15... a week before Biden's inauguration. A very rocky road for the 2500 troops would have to somehow get US contractors out, disable equipment that was to be left there, and get themselves out as safely as possible. And they did an amazing job considering they were hamstrung by the buffoon Trump! Putting our troops in more danger as a political ploy is more than disgusting!
> Trump stealing classified and top secret documents could prove to be a rocky road for many in the intelligence community, and for us in general depending on who ends up with sensitive information.
> Traitor Trump's insurrection proved to be very rocky for DC police who were injured, and died on that day.
> 
> Ok, let's compare!!


You are off topic...since this is The Biden Thread why can't you at least say something about Biden? You probably can't because there is nothing good to say about him.

Why don't you post this dribble on the Trump thread where all the other Dumocrat dolts are? They might even appreciate it.


----------



## Wino

Yeah, trekguy - this thread is for the RWNJ dotards!! What were you thinking??? LOL


----------



## trekguy

MisterEd51 said:


> You are off topic...since this is The Biden Thread why can't you at least say something about Biden? You probably can't because there is nothing good to say about him.
> 
> Why don't you post this dribble on the Trump thread where all the other Dumocrat dolts are? They might even appreciate it.


I was replying to a comment on THIS thread, but thanks for taking the time to respond.


----------



## trekguy

Wino said:


> Yeah, trekguy - this thread is for the RWNJ dotards!! What were you thinking??? LOL


----------



## MisterEd51

trekguy said:


> I was replying to a comment on THIS thread, but thanks for taking the time to respond.


You wrote a response to a comment that was off topic. LOL.


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> Trump was the best president since Abraham Lincoln. Obama could hold a candle to the power he possessed, because he was sold out to special interests (namely the devil).
> Bottom line, the courts are in the wrong. How dare they treat a former president of the UNITED STATES this way. By the way, the way the law is written, and the law the democrats are attempting to take advantage of is essentially limited to only current officials or employees. Trump is neither.
> Sure as hell have a lot more problems under Biden, wouldn't you say?


Presidential historians have ranked Trump as being in the bottom 4 US presidents ever, but that is a topic for the Trump thread.
Obama did quite a good job given the mess that was left for him to clean up after the 2008 financial crisis. And the fact that he lost his majorities in both houses.
If you are going to accuse the courts of being wrong, you need to provide some reasoning why you think they are. "How dare they" makes you sound like Greta Thunburg.

I don't know what garbage it is that average American wants none of, but if it is related to prosecuting Trump, then A: The Dems are not driving the independent investigations, and B) Take it over to the Trump thread.

Just what are the changes that the Democrats want? Let's start with the Biden Admin achievements so far. Pick one or more that you strongly oppose.
From Upworthy: https://www.upworthy.com/joe-biden-...ents-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far

1. Passed the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package to increase investment in the national network of bridges and roads, airports, public transport and national broadband internet, as well as waterways and energy systems.

2. Helped get more than 500 million life-saving COVID-19 vaccinations in the arms of Americans through the American Rescue Plan.

3. Stopped a 30-year streak of federal inaction on gun violence by signing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act that created enhanced background checks, closed the “boyfriend” loophole and provided funds for youth mental health.

4. Made a $369 billion investment in climate change, the largest in American history, through the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.

5. Ended the longest war in American history by pulling the troops out of Afghanistan.

6. Provided $10,000 to $20,000 in college debt relief to Americans with loans who make under $125,000 a year.

7. Cut child poverty in half through the American Rescue Plan.

8. Capped prescription drug prices at $2,000 per year for seniors on Medicare through the Inflation Reduction Act.

9. Passed the COVID-19 relief deal that provided payments of up to $1,400 to many struggling U.S. citizens while supporting renters and increasing unemployment benefits.

10. Achieved historically low unemployment rates after the pandemic caused them to skyrocket.

11. Imposed a 15% minimum corporate tax on some of the largest corporations in the country, ensuring that they pay their fair share, as part of the historic Inflation Reduction Act.

12. Recommitted America to the global fight against climate change by rejoining the Paris Agreement.

13. Strengthened the NATO alliance in support of Ukraine after the Russian invasion by endorsing the inclusion of world military powers Sweden and Finland.

14. Authorized the assassination of the Al Qaeda terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, who became head of the organization after the death of Osama bin Laden.

15. Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending.

16. Held Vladimir Putin accountable for his invasion of Ukraine by imposing stiff economic sanctions.

17. Boosted the budget of the Internal Revenue Service by nearly $80 billion to reduce tax evasion and increase revenue.

18. Created more jobs in one year (6.6 million) than any other president in U.S. history.

19. Reduced healthcare premiums under the Affordable Care Act by $800 a year as part of the American Rescue Plan.

20. Signed the PACT Act to address service members’ exposure to burn pits and other toxins.

21. Signed the CHIPS and Science Act to strengthen American manufacturing and innovation.

22. Reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act through 2027.

23. Halted all federal executions after the previous administration reinstated them after a 17-year freeze.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> Presidential historians have ranked Trump as being in the bottom 4 US presidents ever, but that is a topic for the Trump thread.


Obviously, if you buy into this you buy into the notion that Lance Armstrong should be able to conduct his own urine tests to screen for PEDs.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> Presidential historians have ranked Trump as being in the bottom 4 US presidents ever, but that is a topic for the Trump thread.
> Obama did quite a good job given the mess that was left for him to clean up after the 2008 financial crisis. And the fact that he lost his majorities in both houses.
> If you are going to accuse the courts of being wrong, you need to provide some reasoning why you think they are. "How dare they" makes you sound like Greta Thunburg.
> 
> I don't know what garbage it is that average American wants none of, but if it is related to prosecuting Trump, then A: The Dems are not driving the independent investigations, and B) Take it over to the Trump thread.
> 
> Just what are the changes that the Democrats want? Let's start with the Biden Admin achievements so far. Pick one or more that you strongly oppose.
> From Upworthy: https://www.upworthy.com/joe-biden-...ents-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far
> 
> 1. Passed the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package to increase investment in the national network of bridges and roads, airports, public transport and national broadband internet, as well as waterways and energy systems.
> 
> 2. Helped get more than 500 million life-saving COVID-19 vaccinations in the arms of Americans through the American Rescue Plan.
> 
> 3. Stopped a 30-year streak of federal inaction on gun violence by signing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act that created enhanced background checks, closed the “boyfriend” loophole and provided funds for youth mental health.
> 
> 4. Made a $369 billion investment in climate change, the largest in American history, through the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.
> 
> 5. Ended the longest war in American history by pulling the troops out of Afghanistan.
> 
> 6. Provided $10,000 to $20,000 in college debt relief to Americans with loans who make under $125,000 a year.
> 
> 7. Cut child poverty in half through the American Rescue Plan.
> 
> 8. Capped prescription drug prices at $2,000 per year for seniors on Medicare through the Inflation Reduction Act.
> 
> 9. Passed the COVID-19 relief deal that provided payments of up to $1,400 to many struggling U.S. citizens while supporting renters and increasing unemployment benefits.
> 
> 10. Achieved historically low unemployment rates after the pandemic caused them to skyrocket.
> 
> 11. Imposed a 15% minimum corporate tax on some of the largest corporations in the country, ensuring that they pay their fair share, as part of the historic Inflation Reduction Act.
> 
> 12. Recommitted America to the global fight against climate change by rejoining the Paris Agreement.
> 
> 13. Strengthened the NATO alliance in support of Ukraine after the Russian invasion by endorsing the inclusion of world military powers Sweden and Finland.
> 
> 14. Authorized the assassination of the Al Qaeda terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, who became head of the organization after the death of Osama bin Laden.
> 
> 15. Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending.
> 
> 16. Held Vladimir Putin accountable for his invasion of Ukraine by imposing stiff economic sanctions.
> 
> 17. Boosted the budget of the Internal Revenue Service by nearly $80 billion to reduce tax evasion and increase revenue.
> 
> 18. Created more jobs in one year (6.6 million) than any other president in U.S. history.
> 
> 19. Reduced healthcare premiums under the Affordable Care Act by $800 a year as part of the American Rescue Plan.
> 
> 20. Signed the PACT Act to address service members’ exposure to burn pits and other toxins.
> 
> 21. Signed the CHIPS and Science Act to strengthen American manufacturing and innovation.
> 
> 22. Reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act through 2027.
> 
> 23. Halted all federal executions after the previous administration reinstated them after a 17-year freeze.


How's the crime rate doing under Biden?

p.s. This thread should be closed. Illegitimate presidents should get no credit lol


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> How's the crime rate doing under Biden?


I understand he is working on reducing it. The pandemic has triggered increases in crime worldwide as a result of economic uncertainty. Crime reduction is not something that is a quick fix. Have you any ideas as to what should be done?

--------
FBI statistics show murders spiked nearly 30% in 2020 to a two-decade high. All violent crime – including offenses such as rape and assault – went up 5.2%.

Since then, however, it has been more of a mixed bag. FBI data showed violent crime overall dropped in 2021 while murders rose 4%, though a change in the agency's methodology means some police departments were unable to report crime statistics.

Murders and gun assaults declined slightly in the first half of 2022, 2% and 6% respectively, according to data collected by the nonpartisan Council on Criminal Justice think tank. Property crimes were up, however: robberies rose 19%, auto thefts 15% and residential burglaries 6%.








Analysis: Crime is a top concern for many Americans in midterm vote. How bad is it?


Republican candidates in the Nov. 8 general election are attacking Democrats for what they say is a dramatic spike in crime under Democratic President Joe Biden, and polls show races in Pennsylvania, New York and Wisconsin have narrowed following a barrage of political ads on the issue.




www.reuters.com




---------
I note that you didn't have anything to say about any of the 23 Biden administration accomplishments listed.


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> Obviously, if you buy into this you buy into the notion that Lance Armstrong should be able to conduct his own urine tests to screen for PEDs.


You are arguing that Presidential historians are biased against GOP presidents without even asking which historians I am referring to?
Weak sauce. You are going to have to try harder to defend the honor of your fuhrer.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> You are arguing that Presidential historians are biased against GOP presidents without even asking which historians I am referring to?
> Weak sauce. You are going to have to try harder to defend the honor of your fuhrer.


The answer is yes, I will be bias and let me explain. You have zero trustworthy historians, they are instead appropriately named *historical revisionists. These people (traitors) have been manipulating the facts surrounding our national and it's subsequent history. This is why I take offence to your so called "fact checkers" they are on the same team against Trump. *

I'm here because all your "Presidential historians" are not independent after all. 
How many mass shootings under the Biden administration's dictatorial rule? Verse Trump?
If Trump is that bad, where does that leave your guy? Biden? Come on, everyone knows Biden is a sell out and Obama is actually the one pulling the strings.


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> I'm here because all your "Presidential historians" are not independent after all.
> How many mass shootings under the Biden administration's dictatorial rule? Verse Trump?
> If Trump is that bad, where does that leave your guy? Biden? Come on, everyone knows Biden is a sell out and Obama is actually the one pulling the strings.


It is impossible to take you seriously. Your grammar is atrocious. Do you even proofread before you post?
Have there been more mass shootings under Biden than under Trump? I am pretty sure the president doesn't have any control over the lone wolf domestic terrorists.
What do you mean by the term "sell out"? It sounds to me like you are casting baseless dispersions.
Why would it be a problem if "Obama is actually the one pulling the strings"? I have not seen any evidence of that. My understanding is that Sean Hannity advised Trump nightly. Presidents take advice from all kinds of advisors. Then they make decisions. That is how the job works.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> It is impossible to take you seriously. Your grammar is atrocious. Do you even proofread before you post?


This is usually what people resort to when the facts are not on their side.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> It is impossible to take you seriously. Your grammar is atrocious. Do you even proofread before you post?
> Have there been more mass shootings under Biden than under Trump? I am pretty sure the president doesn't have any control over the lone wolf domestic terrorists.
> What do you mean by the term "sell out"? It sounds to me like you are casting baseless dispersions.
> Why would it be a problem if "Obama is actually the one pulling the strings"? I have not seen any evidence of that. My understanding is that Sean Hannity advised Trump nightly. Presidents take advice from all kinds of advisors. Then they make decisions. That is how the job works.


Yes there have been many more mass shootings since Biden took office.

Crime has spiked across the nation since he became President. 

Inflation, did I mention that yet? 

You do realize Obama is actually working in the white house again, right?


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> This is usually what people resort to when the facts are not on their side.


I have the facts as well. Don't mistake my constructive criticism as an argument to refute your incoherent ranting.


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> Yes there have been many more mass shootings since Biden took office.
> Crime has spiked across the nation since he became President.
> Inflation, did I mention that yet?
> You do realize Obama is actually working in the white house again, right?


How much is "many"? Citation needed. 
Again: The president does not control mass shootings.
Crime has not spiked.
Yes, inflation is a problem I blame it on the pandemic mostly. It wouldn't be as bad if the Trump admin had not cut taxes for the wealthy.
No, Obama is not working for the white house.
Meme's are not sources.


----------



## frozen igloo

SeanLaurence said:


> I have the facts as well. Don't mistake my constructive criticism as an argument to refute your incoherent ranting.


What's "incoherent" about our soaring crime rate under Biden? Apparently, you are the one that's incoherent.


----------



## SeanLaurence

frozen igloo said:


> What's "incoherent" about our soaring crime rate under Biden? Apparently, you are the one that's incoherent.


No, it is your ranting that is incoherent. Your specific assertion regarding crime rates under Biden is baseless (not backed up with any evidence) and exaggerated.


----------



## Cookiegal

@frozen igloo,

You need to provide links to reputable sites to back up your claims. You can't just start making accusations and claims as fact with nothing to back it up. That is just arguing for the sake of arguing. That's not how this forum works when debating controversial topics.


----------



## MisterEd51

frozen igloo said:


> Yes there have been many more mass shootings since Biden took office.
> 
> Crime has spiked across the nation since he became President.
> 
> Inflation, did I mention that yet?
> 
> You do realize Obama is actually working in the white house again, right?
> 
> View attachment 302364


You will never win an argument when the other side are a bunch of dolts. No matter what truth you put forward the Dumocrats will counter with a half-truth or a lie. You also have to realize that Dumocrats think that lying is a virtue. They think they are the intelligent ones and we are are simply stupid. Lying and smearing their opponents is just a means to an end where they win and we lose. You might as well give up like I did. You might as well give them these threads because they relish in the BS they put out.


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## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> You will never win an argument when the other side are a bunch of dolts. No matter what truth you put forward the Dumocrats will counter with a half-truth or a lie. You also have to realize that Dumocrats think that lying is a virtue. They think they are the intelligent ones and we are are simply stupid. Lying and smearing their opponents is just a means to an end where they win and we lose. You might as well give up like I did. You might as well give them these threads because they relish in the BS they put out.


You are projecting.


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## MisterEd51

SeanLaurence said:


> You are projecting.


Typical Dumocrat. Always blaming someone else. If you had any honesty you would at least admit how morally and intellectually bankrupt you are.


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## Cookiegal

@MisterEd51,

You can have differing views and present them accordingly but we will not tolerate personal attacks and name-calling and that includes things like "dumocrats". Please be more careful when posting in the future.


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## SeanLaurence

MisterEd51 said:


> Typical Dumocrat. Always blaming someone else. If you had any honesty you would at least admit how morally and intellectually bankrupt you are.


You are still projecting.
This is an adult version of the old playground retort; "I know you are but what am I"

I am not blaming anyone. I am pointing out that your complaints about the other side are the same ones that they have of you. Perhaps if you did less attacking and did more listening to others that you don't agree with, you might learn to get along. Or do you just intend to provoke people?


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## MisterEd51

Cookiegal said:


> @MisterEd51,
> 
> You can have differing views and present them accordingly but we will not tolerate personal attacks and name-calling and that includes things like "dumocrats". Please be more careful when posting in the future.


Why don't you just close this thread? As the OP I no longer find any reason to keep it going. Debate requires reasoned and honest debaters. You are not going to find any here.


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## Cookiegal

Thread closed at thread starters request.


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