# Office Validation - New Annoyance



## JetWash

It seems as if Microsoft is targeting users who pirate it's *Microsoft office 2007 Office Application*.

In a new attempt to get users to purchase *Microsofts 2007 Office* Version, Microsoft has made a small update that will run in the backround of your OS and detect if you are running a legitimate version of the program.

The Office Annoyance Program (Detector) is updated through *Microsoft Windows Update*, Users have the choice to apply the update or not install it at all. If, You do not update it you will inevitably not receive any further updates for Microsoft Office.

In all efforts to deter people to stop pirating and start buying seems to not be working all that much, Microsoft may find itself begging consumers to purchase the infamous program.

*Here is the related article:* http://www.atechforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=121


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## JohnWill

What do you suggest, they allow folks to freely pirate their software?


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## JetWash

I never said that, It was an article - I did not approve to the copyrighting of any program. Just said Microsoft launched a annoyance patch if users are using a pirated version they'd be greeted by it.

Mmm, Hate when people don't read.


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## daniel_b2380

QUOTE post 1:
The Office Annoyance Program (Detector) is updated through Microsoft Windows Update, Users have the choice to apply the update or not install it at all. If, You do not update it you will inevitably not receive any further updates for Microsoft Office.

In all efforts to deter people to stop pirating and start buying seems to not be working all that much, Microsoft may find itself begging consumers to purchase the infamous program.
.
QUOTE post 3:
I never said that, It was an article - I did not approve to the copyrighting of any program. Just said Microsoft launched a annoyance patch if users are using a pirated version they'd be greeted by it.

Mmm, Hate when people don't read. 
.
QUOTE post 2:
What do you suggest, they allow folks to freely pirate their software? 
.
good call johnwill,
agree with you completely,
[on this point, ]
guess it's the 'NEW ATTITUDE' mind-set,
until you try to take something of THEIRS, 
.
jetwash,
post #3, 
Mmm, Hate when people don't read. 
post #1 was NOT a quote, YOUR writings,
so, HUH?????
.
QUOTE:
I did not approve to the copyrighting of any program
.
and that means WHAT???
.
maybe a read of:
http://stealingisillegal.com/faqs.php
.
good discourse here on wanting freebies
[language is a bit rough],
[so go there to read it],
01-07-2004, 02:46 PM
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t265284-mpeg2-decoder-for-nero.html
.
QUOTE:
guess it's the 'NEW ATTITUDE' mind-set,
until you try to take something of THEIRS, 
.
oh well.......
.
[just my opinion]


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## JohnWill

I hate it when people don't comprehend what they wrote.


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## Prenumbra

well that craziness aside...I'm actually glad that MS is doing something about it, though I doubt it would do little to curb the problem


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## allheart55

I too hope Microsoft puts a stop to this use of pirated software!! I resent the fact that the use and abuse of pirated software affects the price for the people that pay for their programs. Knowing that the cost of it is driven sky high really ticks me off. If you don't have the funds to purchase the programs legally than here's a thought.....do without it because you obviously don't need it, you just WANT it. 

I see too many client machines, especially the ones purchased used, on eBay that fail validation because of a blocked VLK or a non existent license. It's really unfair to the honest people because in the end we pay the price.


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## RootbeaR

allheart55 said:


> I too hope Microsoft puts a stop to this use of pirated software!! I resent the fact that the use and abuse of pirated software affects the price for the people that pay for their programs. Knowing that the cost of it is driven sky high really ticks me off. If you don't have the funds to purchase the programs legally than here's a thought.....do without it because you obviously don't need it, you just WANT it.
> 
> I see too many client machines, especially the ones purchased used, on eBay that fail validation because of a blocked VLK or a non existent license. It's really unfair to the honest people because in the end we pay the price.


Except that MS has always been expensive, that isn't changing. Unless it is cheaper now than before.

MS has also promoted pirating in the past in order to saturate the market and get you hooked.

1) You aren't using a competing product, giving them nice stats to look at.

2) Even MS knows a pirated copy is a potential for future sale(s). Which could turn around if not for getting them hooked into proprietary software via the piracy.


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## allheart55

RootbeaR, I respectfully disagree with your somewhat jaded point of view. I am a firm believer of, "you
get what you pay for". I have nothing against Open Source, I actually recommend Open Office to many
clients. Linux as an Operating System isn't for me. It has it's uses, no doubt about it. In my opinion, it's
an excellent tool to boot a non booting machine and to recover data. I'm just a dedicated Windows user
with a firm belief that piracy in any form is just wrong!



> MS has also promoted pirating in the past in order to saturate the market and get you hooked.


Call me naive, but where does that come from? My brother recently retired from Microsoft, he's told me
many things but NEVER even alluded to THAT. I'm not saying that it isn't true, I'm just really sceptical 
about it. Traditionally Microsoft has offered trial Office software. It speaks for itself, you either like it or
you don't.

My brother is on a cruise right now but when he returns...... it will be the third degree for him. I 
don't see the point in MS "promoting" piracy. It just doesn't compute.  (Pun intended) 








Can we at least agree that piracy in any form is not only illegal but morally wrong? 
Stealing is stealing, no excuses.


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## Wino

I'm 100% against piracy. I'm also 100% against usury pricing of a software product which is why I use Org. MS does in a way promote their product thru the Student & Teacher versions, which if I hazard a guess, 90% aren't used by either students or teachers, but gives MS a shot at selling an over priced program cheaply to those that otherwise wouldn't waste their money on MS Office. Just MHO.


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## daniel_b2380

isn't that why apple "gave" laptops to schools???
[or might well have for the price they were acquired for],
personally, i don't see that as 'wrong'
just good advertising 
if y'all can't see that,
have to have it pointed oit to you.................
.
over-priced...
usery priced..........
c'mon,
THINK about those words,
let's do a math problem,
if i have 10 items to sell,
want to make $10.00
but if 30% get stolen /pirated,
and i decide i am STILL going to make my $10.00
what does that mean i have to sell the remaining 7 for????????
i'll make it easy for you,
the answer is $1.4285714286
[the answer to 10 decimal points]


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## new tech guy

If you ask me, microsoft put themselves in the hole here. By overpricing the program and assuming everyone is a criminal until otherwise proven they have atcually driven the piracy up instead of down. Same happened to the movie industry and music as well. When cd's had DRM, piracy went through the ceiling, now that it is off you cant get it back down cause you let everyone get hooked on obtaining material for free. Movie industry is going through the same trouble right now. I dont know about you guys but im starting to see a pattern... I see this in a simple way, if microsoft never dogged everyone about this from the beginning noone would pirate, take the macintosh operating system for example, in that install, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about validation, anti piracy whatever....etc and guess what? There is only a miniscule amount of piracy going on and its far and apart at that. Dont treat people like criminals and they dont become criminals.


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## allheart55

WOW....Just Wow. :down: Either I'm on a different planet or this is the twilight zone. dodododododo


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## Rich-M

" over pricing"? "MS has always been expensive"? "MS has also promoted pirating in the past in order to saturate the market and get you hooked."....prove it!!!!!

You know if you don't like the program, or don't understand the value of it, well don't buy it. That is like saying that the product is so expensive it justifies stealing it....and let's not kid oursleves using illegal software is "theft of sevices"

Software developers are like any other business, if their stuff is too expensive, then no one will buy it. Who are all of you to say that ms Office is too expensive? Personally I think it sucks as a program and I personally believe it is overpriced, but because I am in the business and most of my clients use it, I have to have it on hand and know how to use it. For myself I use Word Perfect and always have, but the price of the product is not up to me and my opinion really doesn't matter because no matter what I think of it, there is no justification for stealing it.

And as for Microsoft encouraging piracy, bologna. As for student pricing and the assumption it isn't owned by students in most cases, well the writer needs to go visit some high schools and colleges is all, and thank God someone gives students and teachers a break as many companies do just that. What is the matter with you, students have no income at all in most cases and teachers are amongst the poorest paid and need a break.


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## RootbeaR

Rich-M said:


> ....prove it!!!!!
> 
> You know if you don't like the program, or don't understand the value of it, well don't buy it. That is like saying that the product is so expensive it justifies stealing it....and let's not kid oursleves using illegal software is "theft of sevices"


"Although the world's largest software maker spends millions of dollars annually to combat illegal copying and distribution of its products, critics allege - *and Microsoft acknowledges - that piracy sometimes helps the company establish itself in emerging markets and fend off threats from free open-source programs.*"
http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/third-world-piracy-actually-good-for-microsoft/

There are more articles stating this including from MS.

I don't steal. You shouldn't make those kinds of assumptions about people.

I have legal XP, legal beta 7, legal Linux distros.

I have legal MS office 2003.

I defy you or anyone else to find anything illegal on my PC or in my house or on my property!


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## StumpedTechy

I too am against piracy but as a consumer there are a ton of things that people need to do to make it so they are not infringing upon legitimate users when they try these anti-piracy techniques.

1) Make your software trial version but fully open to use for the trial period. Nothing like thinking something will do what you want just to unlock it to find that it does not function the way you envisioned.

2) Make your changes you do transparent to users of the legit software and if it hits these legit users do everything you possibly can to fix the situation quickly. I cant stand being a legit user and having to jup through hoops to show my purchase and offer my first born son just to "validate" that I have bought it.

3) Don't gimp your products in such a way as forcing your product to only work in X situation when it can easily work in Y or Z situations. Much like the DVD players and region coding. If I have a DVD player the fact I have to make sure its a specific region is insane.

4) Don't add things into your products that will take over other peoples computer and thus expose them to unwanted items. E.G. Sony rootkit.

5) Don't design your product to behave a certain way and then not put the requirement on packaging. E.G. an offline game (Mass Efect) that requires online activation of the product before the EXE works, and then checks online to patch and if not online it won't work.

I see so many companies trying to circumvent piracy in a number of ways, but many of them not worrying about the impact to the legit customers.


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## Rich-M

RootbeaR said:


> "Although the worlds largest software maker spends millions of dollars annually to combat illegal copying and distribution of its products, critics allege  *and Microsoft acknowledges  that piracy sometimes helps the company establish itself in emerging markets and fend off threats from free open-source programs.*"
> http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/third-world-piracy-actually-good-for-microsoft/
> 
> There are more articles stating this including from MS.
> 
> I don't steal. You shouldn't make those kinds of assumptions about people.
> 
> I have legal XP, legal beta 7, legal Linux distros.
> 
> I have legal MS office 2003.
> 
> I defy you or anyone else to find anything illegal on my PC or in my house or on my property!


Rootbear,
Please I did not mean you steal software, I just found several remarks in this thread in defense of theft, whether it was meant to or not...sorry no accusations meant.

If we are talking about Microsoft's forays into emerging countries with such bargains, I think of that as marketing, not encouraging piracy.


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## RootbeaR

Rich-M said:


> Rootbear,
> Please I did not mean you steal software, I just found several remarks in this thread in defense of theft, whether it was meant to or not...sorry no accusations meant.
> 
> If we are talking about Microsoft's forays into emerging countries with such bargains, I think of that as marketing, not encouraging piracy.


No problem.
Edit: There is one _possibility_, I am trying to determine that in another thread.

I am not defending stealing. It really does cost us all. I can prove that too!
Just examine Financial Statements of almost any Company.

Just pointing ouit that MS has promoted it in the past because, I forget which exec said it, "We would rather they used pirated windows than use competitor." (Not verbatim, been a year or so and I forget exactly where it was)

Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.


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## new tech guy

Rich-M said:


> " over pricing"? "MS has always been expensive"? "


I can prove it, walk into a bestbuy or go online and check out the pricing of the different versions of office. If you ask me, this is a little overpriced for what you get. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/suites/default.aspx

And the reason i use it is just as you stated rich, the rest of the world has it on their pc and it would just be a waste of time to learn somthing else, AND microsoft office itself. I do understand that open applications are availible (open office for example) and these are very similar to microsoft office but i have seen instances first hand where things done in the open source app do not carry over to office and vice versa. I am not promoting piracy either as it is morally wrong, but my main point in my previous post was that if you dont treat people as criminals, you really dont seem to have any criminal activity to begin with. You will never fully eliminate piracy but it would make piracy a very far and sparse activity. Finally, along the lines of those deals that microsoft setup, such as the ultimate steal deal (which i would love to be involved with by the way), not all colleges are in with it. Major universities are, but where are the little community colleges and such? For instance, it would be great if i could get myself a copy of windows server 08 and practice administration tasks via my home server setup in my home without any legal reprecussion but i cannot as i am not in one of the major colleges.


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## allheart55

RootbeaR said:


> "Although the worlds largest software maker spends millions of dollars annually to combat illegal copying and distribution of its products, critics allege  *and Microsoft acknowledges  that piracy sometimes helps the company establish itself in emerging markets and fend off threats from free open-source programs.*"
> http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/third-world-piracy-actually-good-for-microsoft/
> 
> There are more articles stating this including from MS.
> 
> I don't steal. You shouldn't make those kinds of assumptions about people.
> 
> I have legal XP, legal beta 7, legal Linux distros.
> 
> I have legal MS office 2003.
> 
> I defy you or anyone else to find anything illegal on my PC or in my house or on my property!


RootbeaR, I think you misunderstood. No one, especially not Rich have made any accusations of piracy, pointing a finger at you.  

I am seeing accusations made but towards Microsoft.



> critics allege  *and Microsoft acknowledges*


Anyone can allege anything about anyone, that doesn't make it true or factual. I don't see that Microsoft has *acknowledged* *it (promoting piracy)* anywhere, not in this article or any other article.

Newspaper Reporters, newspapers, they are all about the shock value. It sells their product, it doesn't make it true. My rule of thumb, having dealt too many times with reporters is this, take 1/2 of what is said, divide it by ten and believe that whatever is left is probably just one more unsubstantiated allegation.

That's my jaded opinion of reporters.....

An accusation doesn't make anyone turn toward criminal activity. A criminal is a criminal. Asking someone to validate their software doesn't make them suddenly want to steal. It's simply an annoyance.....


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## RootbeaR

Wish it was that cheap here.

Almost $750 for professional version. Staples.


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## RootbeaR

allheart55 said:


> RootbeaR, I think you misunderstood. No one, especially not Rich have made any accusations of piracy, pointing a finger at you.
> 
> I am seeing accusations made but towards Microsoft.
> 
> Anyone can allege anything about anyone, that doesn't make it true or factual. I don't see that Microsoft has *acknowledged* *it (promoting piracy)* anywhere, not in this article or any other article.
> 
> Newspaper Reporters, newspapers, they are all about the shock value. It sells their product, it doesn't make it true. My rule of thumb, having dealt too many times with reporters is this, take 1/2 of what is said, divide it by ten and believe that whatever is left is probably just one more unsubstantiated allegation.
> 
> That's my jaded opinion of reporters.....
> 
> An accusation doesn't make anyone turn toward criminal activity. A criminal is a criminal. Asking someone to validate their software doesn't make them suddenly want to steal. It's simply an annoyance.....


"Microsoft admits piracy benefits

The president of Microsoft Corp's business division, Jeff Raikes, has admitted that the company benefits from software piracy in an apparent tip of the hat to the open source software distribution model.

"Our number one goal is that we want people to use our product. If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else," he said. "And that's because we understand that in the long run the fundamental asset is the install base of people who are using our products.""
http://www.cbronline.com/news/microsoft_admits_piracy_benefits

I believe this is the one I was referring to earlier.

That's two articles now. Is it at least 50% true now?

It isn't that hard of a concept to grasp how piracy has helped them.

I just finished reading another thread, "I must have outlook..." because you are now tied in to proprietary software.


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## RootbeaR

I apologize to Rich and others.

I am not reading/seeing clearly.

I am not in right frame of mind here.


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## Rich-M

Very sorry to hear that Rootbear....of course that throws off your perspective and I am sure I say for both of us....and stay calm. One of my overall riding principles is never make a decision in anger. Now if I could stick with it......


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## RootbeaR

Rich-M said:


> never make a decision in anger.......


Words of wisdom.

Thanks Rich.


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## RootbeaR

"Let's add this up: Hot little computer: $255. Basic low-end Microsoft software: $598.

What's wrong with this picture?"
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Microsoft-business-model-over/story.aspx?guid={4C81119F-100F-4D73-95AD-80424E949DC1}&dist=SecMostRead


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## bp936

so now that Microsoft killed all other apps and companies, they take the right to gouge everyone. Small business has a hard time keeping up with updating. Most of Office is not used. Microsoft works was fine for basic business. Who is pushing those monsterous programs??

I loved Lotus and Wordperfect, but can't do office work at home with them, so I have Open Office.


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## RootbeaR

"Of course, Microsoft executives prefer that people buy, but theft can build market share more quickly, as company co-founder and Chairman Bill Gates acknowledged in an unguarded moment in 1998.

"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.""
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/09/business/fi-micropiracy9

Bill Gates agreed with piracy.


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## new tech guy

new tech guy said:


> I can prove it, walk into a bestbuy or go online and check out the pricing of the different versions of office. If you ask me, this is a little overpriced for what you get. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/suites/default.aspx


Which is precicely why i made this comment


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## thebeginner

allheart55 said:


> I too hope Microsoft puts a stop to this use of pirated software!! I resent the fact that the use and abuse of pirated software affects the price for the people that pay for their programs. Knowing that the cost of it is driven sky high really ticks me off. If you don't have the funds to purchase the programs legally than here's a thought.....do without it because you obviously don't need it, you just WANT it.
> 
> I see too many client machines, especially the ones purchased used, on eBay that fail validation because of a blocked VLK or a non existent license. It's really unfair to the honest people because in the end we pay the price.


I totally agree. I spent the money to buy my Office 2007 Small Business Edition and loved it. I bought my computer new from Dell so my version of Windows has to be legal.


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## RootbeaR

10 people. None of whom can afford $800 for MS office.

They decide to pool their money and buy 1 copy of MS office and make 10 copies to use keeping original like new.

MS just made a sale that was not going to happen otherwise.

How much did the 10 copies cost MS? Material production costs etc...

How much did they lose?

How much did they gain?

Lose? Nothing. No individual could afford it.

Gain? Sale of 1 unit, which otherwise would not have been made.

Stealing a physical thing costs us all.

Copying a physical thing doesn't cost the physical creator anything.



Years ago, for my sisters graduation, she wanted a dress.

My Mother took her shopping. The dress my sister liked cost $1200. Yes, even back then.

My Mother looked at the dress, went to another store, bought material went home and made the dress for my sister.

The original seller lost nothing. My Mother had no intention of paying that kind of money for a dress that was being worn once.

They gained advertising as no one could tell it wasn't an original.


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## JohnWill

I doubt you're going to sell that business model to Microsoft, or any other software company.


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## RootbeaR

JohnWill said:


> I doubt you're going to sell that business model to Microsoft, or any other software company.


See post #28.

Re: Bill Gates.


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