# 8800GT SLI how good is it



## mashed1000 (Jan 26, 2008)

hello 
I'm geting a new gaming pc with dual 8800GT SLI.
Is this better than one video card or just a wast of money??? 

P.S I will be doing alot of gaming. 

THANKS
MASHED1000


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## Jones (Jul 28, 2005)

mashed1000 said:


> hello
> I'm geting a new gaming pc with dual 8800GT SLI.
> Is this better than one video card or just a wast of money???
> 
> ...


Answer: Two 8800 GT's in SLI will be better than one 8800 GT. However, a single 8800 Ultra is as good as the two GT's.

Check out the VGA charts here to compare results with all types and combo's of video cards:

Dual Cards: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html

Single Cards: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html


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## NeVeRReSt (Feb 11, 2007)

The 8800Gt OC'ED (SLI) are a nice piece of kit. Even owning the SLI GTX's in some games.


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## into9rod (Jan 14, 2008)

If u gonna get 2 8800 GT I recommend u this HD3870 X2 os better and maybe cheaper if you gonna get one single card the 8800GT is the better option
Goodluck


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Sorry, but there is absolutely no reason to get the X2 when Nvidia has far better drivers out there, reliable manufacturers, and 2 8800GTs in SLI will beat the X2 always. 

The X2 barely nudges the 8800 Ultra, and the GTs aren't far behind in performance of that.


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## avengeda7x (Jul 2, 2007)

firstly if you have the money for 2 x 8800gt s why not just get one 8800gtx :S then later you could get another, so the 2 x 8800gtx would rape the 2 x 8800gt


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## mashed1000 (Jan 26, 2008)

what if the 8800gt are 1gb each


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## avengeda7x (Jul 2, 2007)

right okay, post me a link to the supposidly 1G 8800gt please =]
and the 8800gtx are 768MB wont really matter with that sort of difference, its not so much the size that matters its about the clock speed.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Sorry, but there is absolutely no reason to get the X2 when Nvidia has far better drivers out there, reliable manufacturers, and 2 8800GTs in SLI will beat the X2 always.
> 
> The X2 barely nudges the 8800 Ultra, and the GTs aren't far behind in performance of that.


SLI requires an SLI motherboard. Add to the price. nVIDIA chipsets are notoriously buggy. Add to the pain. 

Not sure what you mean by better drivers. ATI (AMD) has had great drivers since they went with the Catalyst suite with the Radeon 9700 Pro. :up:

My brother-in-law tried two different 7950 GX2 video cards in both his computer and mine. Both were severely buggy with graphical glitches in games and benchmark software. He then got a pair of 7900GTX in SLI instead and has had so many problems over time that he tossed one 7900GTX to the side and just runs a single video card now. :down:


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## mashed1000 (Jan 26, 2008)

which is better


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## mashed1000 (Jan 26, 2008)

which is better ati 3870 or 8800gt in sli.
how abouth spider platform????


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## avengeda7x (Jul 2, 2007)

on 3Dmark 06...

saphire ati 3870 score =11900 water cool max oc i got a 13394 Marks

xfx 8800 gt score =12900 Marks with stock cooler

so i would sat the 8800gt wins  unless you have a watercooled system and can overclock the ati card.


and you could just wait for the spider platfor, i like the look of them to be hones, with the new Gddr4 ram.


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## mashed1000 (Jan 26, 2008)

WWW.PCUSA THAY HAVE FOR SALE THE 8800 GT 1024 MB


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

avengeda7x said:


> on 3Dmark 06...
> 
> saphire ati 3870 score =11900 water cool max oc i got a 13394 Marks
> 
> xfx 8800 gt score =12900 Marks with stock cooler


You don't play 3DMark do you? 3DMark doesn't use any common 3D engines with today's games. It's one of the most worthless benchmarks ever made. It sure is pretty though. I'll give it that.


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## avengeda7x (Jul 2, 2007)

right so what do you benchmark graphics card with then.? you head.? :L


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## into9rod (Jan 14, 2008)

well go to www.tomshardware.com and see it for yourself the HD 3870 x2 is better in most cases than the ultra including the 3dmark and is cheaper than 2 8800 gt


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Jonmcc33, I must disagree.

Compared to AMD/ATI, Nvidia is absolutely dominating, and I have a 680i motherboard in my build as of right now, and I have yet to have a single problem (except for when I screwed up a registry edit).

On top of these, the Nvidia ForceWare drivers are top notch, and never had a single problem with those on my setup (which includes an 8800GT).

When did your friend get these 79XXs? Was it back in 2004 or so (or whenever the first SLI boards were released)? If so, that was back then, and that was because of the newness of the SLI, and the lack of complete understanding on how to make drivers. Everything has been worked out by now, and my friend's builds work great, with a 650i and 2 8800GTXs.

3DMark is a great program, as it, and all other programs of it's kind, provide a standardized stress test on the crucial parts of your system. The higher the score, the better. Its just like any standardized testing you would take in school, just because you get a really good score, doesn't necessarily mean you're the smartest, but it does give a good idea on your intelligence.

I would also like to mention, that in almost all reviews of a video card, 3DMark isn't the only benchmark, as they use some of the day's most popular games, and they see how well they run those on average, and if you look at 3DMark scores and compare them to their performance across the board, you will notice that its pretty much spot on.

Into9rod, I have seen the benchmarks on all the cards, and I'm telling you that 2 8800GTs are better than 1 3870 X2. For 50 bucks more (on average) you can get 2 8800GTs that will blow away the Ultra card, and since the X2 barely reaches/surpasses the Ultra, 2 8800GTs will provide better performance. Then it comes down to drivers. The drivers for the X2 are not universal, so it is up to the game companies to release updates or produce the games to be compatible with it, otherwise you won't get the best performance. Even then, AMD/ATI has been having issues for the past few years with their drivers being buggy as Hell, and I don't doubt that, because considering the 3870's specifications, there is really no reason it should be lagging so far behind.

Avengeda7x, here is a link to a Palit 8800GT 1GB card.


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## DarklykraD (Jan 22, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> SLI requires an SLI motherboard. Add to the price. nVIDIA chipsets are notoriously buggy. Add to the pain.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by better drivers. ATI (AMD) has had great drivers since they went with the Catalyst suite with the Radeon 9700 Pro. :up:
> 
> My brother-in-law tried two different 7950 GX2 video cards in both his computer and mine. Both were severely buggy with graphical glitches in games and benchmark software. He then got a pair of 7900GTX in SLI instead and has had so many problems over time that he tossed one 7900GTX to the side and just runs a single video card now. :down:





> SLI requires an SLI motherboard. Add to the price. nVIDIA chipsets are notoriously buggy. Add to the pain.


Agree 100%



> Not sure what you mean by better drivers. ATI (AMD) has had great drivers since they went with the Catalyst suite with the Radeon 9700 Pro


90% Pc Gaming Use Nvidia Card (HEAR THAT SEXY VOICE NVIDIAAAAAH), Which is mean 
ATI doing Great Job:up:



> My brother-in-law tried two different 7950 GX2


Idiots Cards Ever:down: (1950 XTX from ATI Much Better)


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

avengeda7x said:


> right so what do you benchmark graphics card with then.? you head.? :L


Actual games? You do not use 3DMark because it will not show you how your video card will perform in actual games. It doesn't use the id Tech 4 (Doom 3) engine, Source (Half-Life 2) engine, CryENGINE2 (Crysis), Unreal 3 (Bioshock) engine or any proprietary 3D engines like those used in Call of Duty 4. These are 3D engines that developers actually use for games that people actually play.

3DMark is *not* going to show you *anything* about how your video card actually performs. That is why serious hardware review websites like AnandTech do not waste time with it anymore.

I'm hoping that you spend $400-600 on a video card to play games and not run benchmark software.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Jonmcc33, I must disagree.
> 
> Compared to AMD/ATI, Nvidia is absolutely dominating, and I have a 680i motherboard in my build as of right now, and I have yet to have a single problem (except for when I screwed up a registry edit).


Dominating what? The video card market? Of course they are! ATI (AMD) dropped the ball after the X1900 series (which performed on par with the 7900 series). When nVIDIA released the 8800 series and ATI had nothing to respond with then everyone moved over to what gave them the best performance for their money. I wouldn't blame them.

I'm just hanging onto my X1900XT until there's a game that I will be hooked on that will actually bring it to it's knees. Crysis does this but I don't care about that game. I was hooked on Battlefield 2 for a couple years and now I'm hooked on Call of Duty 4. I need a game that will hook me and force me to upgrade. So if this thing lasts another year then great! 



Zeus.:God said:


> On top of these, the Nvidia ForceWare drivers are top notch, and never had a single problem with those on my setup (which includes an 8800GT).


I have no real problem with the drivers other than how annoying the SATA drivers are so I choose not to install them. My problem is with the chipset itself. Ever since I got my Asus A8N32-SLI I've had nothing but problems with it. It came with an outdated BIOS that had series issues. I had to disable ACPI just to install Windows XP. With it's current BIOS it's still crap. If I populate all 4 DIMM slots and disable the floppy drive I cannot boot into the OS. It crashes every time.



Zeus.:God said:


> When did your friend get these 79XXs? Was it back in 2004 or so (or whenever the first SLI boards were released)? If so, that was back then, and that was because of the newness of the SLI, and the lack of complete understanding on how to make drivers. Everything has been worked out by now, and my friend's builds work great, with a 650i and 2 8800GTXs.


No, the 7900GTX came out in 2006. Lack of understanding of how to make drivers? Doesn't that contradict any statement that nVIDIA makes great drivers? 



Zeus.:God said:


> 3DMark is a great program, as it, and all other programs of it's kind, provide a standardized stress test on the crucial parts of your system. The higher the score, the better. Its just like any standardized testing you would take in school, just because you get a really good score, doesn't necessarily mean you're the smartest, but it does give a good idea on your intelligence.
> 
> I would also like to mention, that in almost all reviews of a video card, 3DMark isn't the only benchmark, as they use some of the day's most popular games, and they see how well they run those on average, and if you look at 3DMark scores and compare them to their performance across the board, you will notice that its pretty much spot on.


I agree that it's a good stress tester, especially for overclocking. It does put high 3D load onto a video card. But that's about it. It is in no way a viable option for basing 3D performance on. It doesn't use one single 3D engine that all modern games use. :down:



Zeus.:God said:


> Into9rod, I have seen the benchmarks on all the cards, and I'm telling you that 2 8800GTs are better than 1 3870 X2. For 50 bucks more (on average) you can get 2 8800GTs that will blow away the Ultra card, and since the X2 barely reaches/surpasses the Ultra, 2 8800GTs will provide better performance. Then it comes down to drivers. The drivers for the X2 are not universal, so it is up to the game companies to release updates or produce the games to be compatible with it, otherwise you won't get the best performance. Even then, AMD/ATI has been having issues for the past few years with their drivers being buggy as Hell, and I don't doubt that, because considering the 3870's specifications, there is really no reason it should be lagging so far behind.


For $50 more? Try $150-200 more because you need a SLI motherboard to run SLI. The 3870 X2 will run Crossfire by itself on a single slot. Which means it works in *100%* of the motherboards with PCIe on the market.

Not sure what you mean by buggy ATI drivers. I've been using strictly ATI video cards since the release of the 9700 Pro (2002) and never had any issues. :up:


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## DarklykraD (Jan 22, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> Actual games? You do not use 3DMark because it will not show you how your video card will perform in actual games. It doesn't use the id Tech 4 (Doom 3) engine, Source (Half-Life 2) engine, CryENGINE2 (Crysis), Unreal 3 (Bioshock) engine or any proprietary 3D engines like those used in Call of Duty 4. These are 3D engines that developers actually use for games that people actually play.
> 
> 3DMark is *not* going to show you *anything* about how your video card actually performs. That is why serious hardware review websites like AnandTech do not waste time with it anymore.
> 
> I'm hoping that you spend $400-600 on a video card to play games and not run benchmark software.


AGREE 100 % 

Believe real Gaming not Benchmarker (3DMARK etc)


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Dominating what? The video card market? Of course they are! ATI (AMD) dropped the ball after the X1900 series (which performed on par with the 7900 series). When nVIDIA released the 8800 series and ATI had nothing to respond with then everyone moved over to what gave them the best performance for their money. I wouldn't blame them.
> 
> I'm just hanging onto my X1900XT until there's a game that I will be hooked on that will actually bring it to it's knees. Crysis does this but I don't care about that game. I was hooked on Battlefield 2 for a couple years and now I'm hooked on Call of Duty 4. I need a game that will hook me and force me to upgrade. So if this thing lasts another year then great!
> 
> ...


Hmmm... I didn't realize that the 7900GTX was released that recently... No matter, you're really just arguing for nothing.

The only thing you actually have in that post is about the "Crossfire" running on a single slot... Well, thats true, but only for some games. The games are what determine if it will run that way, and in order to have it run properly, there will have to be an update to the drivers for every new release.

About the motherboard... Well, nearly everyone who is seriously considering buying a PC based on gaming purposes is going to go with an SLI capable mainboard, especially since Nvidia is the top dog as of right now. On top of that, those who do have SLI boards would only need roughly 50 bucks more for 2 GTs over 1 X2.

450 suggested price... That will likely be 500 or so with people jumping on it like they did with the 3870, and with 8800GTs (stock clocks) hitting 250 and lower, you could say they break even.

Also, no, my statement of the boards and their lack of understanding of the drivers for SLI, that doesn't contradict anything, because as with any new technology there are going to be bugs. Nvidia has the SLI drivers ironed out and I can't say I've heard anyone really complain about them other than from when they were first released. My statement about drivers, however, was actually based on their video card drivers, which have always been very reliable, and I've never had a single problem, unlike the numerous stories I've heard about Catalyst.

No matter how you slice it, you can't beat the 8800GT for price/performance, especially when it comes to dual cards or just plain dual GPUs.

Don't get me wrong, AMD has something going with it's dual GPU setup over the 7950GX2 or the 9800GX2's dual boards, but still, you can't beat Nvidia for the time being.



DarklykraD said:


> AGREE 100 %
> 
> Believe real Gaming not Benchmarker (3DMARK etc)


3DMark isn't going to give you an approximate analysis across the board, and thats not what its meant to do. Its mean to give you an average standardized test that can compare a card's overall ability. Just because a setup with one card scores 14000 points, doesn't necessarily mean it will beat the same setup with a different card at 12000 points in all games, but you will see a trend that it generally does, and thats why reviewers use it.

Don't say its useless because you're ignorant of it's purpose.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Hmmm... I didn't realize that the 7900GTX was released that recently...


Yes, they came out March 2006: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717

It was actually a refresh of the 7800 series that came out in 2005. Given the usual refresh that nVIDIA and ATi were doing, the 8800 series was released in November of 2006: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870



Zeus.:God said:


> The only thing you actually have in that post is about the "Crossfire" running on a single slot... Well, thats true, but only for some games. The games are what determine if it will run that way, and in order to have it run properly, there will have to be an update to the drivers for every new release.


The same goes for SLI. 



Zeus.:God said:


> About the motherboard... Well, nearly everyone who is seriously considering buying a PC based on gaming purposes is going to go with an SLI capable mainboard, especially since Nvidia is the top dog as of right now. On top of that, those who do have SLI boards would only need roughly 50 bucks more for 2 GTs over 1 X2.


That's not true at all. Intel sells more chipsets than nVIDIA does and these are not capable of SLI. They are, however, capable of Crossfire. :up:



Zeus.:God said:


> 450 suggested price... That will likely be 500 or so with people jumping on it like they did with the 3870, and with 8800GTs (stock clocks) hitting 250 and lower, you could say they break even.


They are available at $450 now retail. Wait till the OEM versions come out. The 8800GT will hit $250 but like I said, you need an SLI motherboard. So in the end you need to spend $200 or so more just to outperform the 3870 X2. 



Zeus.:God said:


> 3DMark isn't going to give you an approximate analysis across the board, and thats not what its meant to do. Its mean to give you an average standardized test that can compare a card's overall ability. Just because a setup with one card scores 14000 points, doesn't necessarily mean it will beat the same setup with a different card at 12000 points in all games, but you will see a trend that it generally does, and thats why reviewers use it.
> 
> Don't say its useless because you're ignorant of it's purpose.


Standardized by the DirectX requirements but not standardized by anything that would show how real world 3D gaming would perform. That would require buying real 3D engine licenses and showing the world that their own developed software is rather...pointless.


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## Gulo Luseus (May 12, 2007)

Firstly, can we stop the ranting and answer the question please? Hmm? <tongue, cheek, look!)
Yes, getting an SLI rig is better than a single card, IF you have the cpu to back it up. A couple of 8800GT's with 3gig chip wont do a lot, go for a quaddie or a high dual core and yes, it will be better. 

Now.. tuppence worth here I come 
Like it or not, 3dmark is a benchmark. When a card scores lower than someoneelses card, it becomes an irrelevent benchmark. In terms of gameplay, I am happy to post FPS fo rany game I have, and wait for an ATI card to beat it. That represents real gameplay and benchmarks, hmm? 


Secondly, I use a 680 chipset, and have had no, as in not one, problem with it. Works fine, doesnt glitch out, no problems at all.

Thirdly, many games, like it or not, are nvidia optimised. Thats why they have a "way its meant to be played" logo. No reflection on ATI whatsoever, but if the companies do the deals, we are stupid to ignore them. Also very very difficult .

Finally, can I take my tongue back out of my cheek now? Its starting to hurt my gums!!


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## Jones (Jul 28, 2005)

Gulo Luseus said:


> Firstly, can we stop the ranting and answer the question please? Hmm? <tongue, cheek, look!)


Question was already answered. Within the first three posts, actually. Then came the derailment.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Gulo Luseus said:


> Yes, getting an SLI rig is better than a single card, IF you have the cpu to back it up. A couple of 8800GT's with 3gig chip wont do a lot, go for a quaddie or a high dual core and yes, it will be better.


Very little games are SMP enabled so dual and quad core processors don't mean much. No game that I know of will max the CPU. When you increase detail settings, AA and AF that is *all* on the GPU and have nothing to do with the CPU. 



Gulo Luseus said:


> Now.. tuppence worth here I come
> Like it or not, 3dmark is a benchmark. When a card scores lower than someoneelses card, it becomes an irrelevent benchmark. In terms of gameplay, I am happy to post FPS fo rany game I have, and wait for an ATI card to beat it. That represents real gameplay and benchmarks, hmm?


It's a synthetic benchmark so for the last time it will not show you how your video card will perform on any single game available on the market. :down:



Gulo Luseus said:


> Secondly, I use a 680 chipset, and have had no, as in not one, problem with it. Works fine, doesnt glitch out, no problems at all.


I have an Asus A8N32-SLI motherboard that uses an nForce4 SLI chipset and it's buggy as hell. Others here have already agreed with me. Good that yours is working fine but that doesn't mean everyone's will. 



Gulo Luseus said:


> Thirdly, many games, like it or not, are nvidia optimised. Thats why they have a "way its meant to be played" logo. No reflection on ATI whatsoever, but if the companies do the deals, we are stupid to ignore them. Also very very difficult.


That's just too funny. The nVIDIA logo crap is merely advertising. nVIDIA pays the company to put that in their game. The only 3D technology that nVIDIA will always lead on is OpenGL which is basically limited to anything id Software produces.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Yes, they came out March 2006: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717
> 
> It was actually a refresh of the 7800 series that came out in 2005. Given the usual refresh that nVIDIA and ATi were doing, the 8800 series was released in November of 2006: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2870
> 
> ...


I realize that the same goes for SLI, but even then, more game developers are supporting it, and even when they don't, you still have a more powerful single GPU, with no real drop in performance over just using the single card to begin with.

Of course Intel sells more chipsets than Nvidia and their SLI, but most consumers who purchase gaming oriented PCs go the SLI route, because not only is it capable of SLI, but Crossfire as well, and they're pretty comparably priced as well.

The retail is 450, I understand that, and I already stated that, but these will definitely be popular with people who's existing computers don't have SLI capabilities or more than one PCI-Express slot, so its going to sell really well, and that will, like the 8800GTs and the 3870s, ramp the price up to the tune of roughly 500 dollars. 8800GTs are already at 250 and below, so I don't know where you're getting "they will" from, because its happened.

Again, 3DMark, as I have stated numerous times doesn't give a *_definite_* degree of performance, but it *_will_* give a user a general outlook on the performance of the card, and if you look, you will notice that it does, in fact, give you a good idea on the overall performance of the card, given the setup.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Very little games are SMP enabled so dual and quad core processors don't mean much. No game that I know of will max the CPU. When you increase detail settings, AA and AF that is *all* on the GPU and have nothing to do with the CPU.


Look at games like Crysis, thats a pretty CPU intensive game, and there will be more like it, so stepping up the CPU isn't a bad idea, whatsoever.



> It's a synthetic benchmark so for the last time it will not show you how your video card will perform on any single game available on the market. :down:


[Again, it will give you a general idea of the card's performance in comparison to others, and it does it well, and thats all they intended to do. It is in no means a definite look on performance, but it most definitely will tell you what you can expect from the card in *most* games.



> I have an Asus A8N32-SLI motherboard that uses an nForce4 SLI chipset and it's buggy as hell. Others here have already agreed with me. Good that yours is working fine but that doesn't mean everyone's will.


Nforce 4... Isn't that one of the EARLIER chipsets to support SLI? Yeah, pretty sure it is, and it is nowhere near as advanced as the 6 series or 7 series SLI chipsets. Like I said in an earlier post, the older chipsets were buggy, because it was new technology, that they were pioneering. They had to work out the bugs, and they did so in later chipsets, so don't try to bring up your technologically ancient board into the situation.



> That's just too funny. The nVIDIA logo crap is merely advertising. nVIDIA pays the company to put that in their game. The only 3D technology that nVIDIA will always lead on is OpenGL which is basically limited to anything id Software produces.


Wow, you actually do not know much about this... Nvidia has a much larger marketshare in this world, whether you like it or not, so most game companies are actually optimizing their software FOR Nvidia chipsets and video cards.

Don't try to spread your ignorance on the people who come to these forums for help.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> I realize that the same goes for SLI, but even then, more game developers are supporting it, and even when they don't, you still have a more powerful single GPU, with no real drop in performance over just using the single card to begin with.


It isn't about the game developer supporting anything. SLI and Crossfire are both done on the video card driver side.



Zeus.:God said:


> Of course Intel sells more chipsets than Nvidia and their SLI, but most consumers who purchase gaming oriented PCs go the SLI route, because not only is it capable of SLI, but Crossfire as well, and they're pretty comparably priced as well.


Not sure where you got this from but SLI chipsets do not support Crossfire. 



Zeus.:God said:


> The retail is 450, I understand that, and I already stated that, but these will definitely be popular with people who's existing computers don't have SLI capabilities or more than one PCI-Express slot, so its going to sell really well, and that will, like the 8800GTs and the 3870s, ramp the price up to the tune of roughly 500 dollars. 8800GTs are already at 250 and below, so I don't know where you're getting "they will" from, because its happened.


Most PCs with PCIe only have a single PCIe X16 slot. That means that to most people the 3870 X2 solution would be more appealing. nVIDIA even showed that dual GPU solutions will become the future. They just need to go with thatt solution on a single video card instead of the current SLI option.



Zeus.:God said:


> Again, 3DMark, as I have stated numerous times doesn't give a *_definite_* degree of performance, but it *_will_* give a user a general outlook on the performance of the card, and if you look, you will notice that it does, in fact, give you a good idea on the overall performance of the card, given the setup.


As I have stated numerous times, it does give a degree of the pure power of the video card but it doesn't give any sort of reference to how real world performance in any single game on the market will be.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Look at games like Crysis, thats a pretty CPU intensive game, and there will be more like it, so stepping up the CPU isn't a bad idea, whatsoever.


Actually, no it isn't. I overclocked my E6400 to 3.2GHz and it sure didn't help the game at all. Even with Tri-SLI the game is a pure killer if you run Ultra High settings. That game is ALL *GPU limited*. 



Zeus.:God said:


> Again, it will give you a general idea of the card's performance in comparison to others, and it does it well, and thats all they intended to do. It is in no means a definite look on performance, but it most definitely will tell you what you can expect from the card in *most* games.


How will it most definitely tell you what you can expect from "most" games when it doesn't even use a single 3D engine from ANY game? :down:



Zeus.:God said:


> Nforce 4... Isn't that one of the EARLIER chipsets to support SLI? Yeah, pretty sure it is, and it is nowhere near as advanced as the 6 series or 7 series SLI chipsets. Like I said in an earlier post, the older chipsets were buggy, because it was new technology, that they were pioneering. They had to work out the bugs, and they did so in later chipsets, so don't try to bring up your technologically ancient board into the situation.


I am not talking about SLI performance. I'm talking about the chipset itself. Being nForce4 it is the 4th generation chipset from nVIDIA. How is that "new technology" at all? 



Zeus.:God said:


> Wow, you actually do not know much about this... Nvidia has a much larger marketshare in this world, whether you like it or not, so most game companies are actually optimizing their software FOR Nvidia chipsets and video cards.


Oh, I know they have a huge marketshare. They are what, the 2nd largest video chipset manufacturer in the world? That's a big thing. But really, the nVIDIA logo in the beginning of games is purely advertising. ATI did the same thing with a few games too.

Proof that it's merely a marketing campaign: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_It's_Meant_to_be_Played

"...this is widely considered as a promotion campaign for NVIDIA."

The reality? http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=3

Isn't Bioshock a member of the nVIDIA logo team? Once you start increasing the resolution you notice how much farther nVIDIA's cards drop in performance compared to ATi's? This is proof that this game, and in fact the Unreal 3 engine, is *not optimized* to perform best on nVIDIA hardware.



Zeus.:God said:


> Don't try to spread your ignorance on the people who come to these forums for help.


Woah! No need to get personal here. Really, if you have anything personal to say it's best to go to PM about it. I'm curious as to what you think I'm ignorant about though. Please continue this part of the conversation via PM though. Thanks!


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Wow... I'm done... This is not the kind of forum to argue in, but I will say you don't know all that much about Nvidia chipsets or how this stuff works, so good day.

Oh, one last thing, you mention BioShock in your last post... Did you look at those benchmarks? Considering that this set up provides slightly better performance for roughly the same price with excellent drivers that are pretty much guaranteed not to give you trouble, it looks like a win for the Nvidia team. Now, once AMD gets out those new Catalyst drivers for Crossfired X2s, then that will be a real competition, but as of right now, there isn't really much going for it.

Granted the X2 performs better in 1 test (the highest resolution, and a pretty uncommon resolution among gamers), but if you look at all the other games they tested, the SLI setup performs better than the X2 in all of them except the same resolution in World of Conflict, which tops out only 2 FPS behind. Also the fact that the SLI setup performs better throughout the the range of resolutions in Unreal Tournament 3 would lead me to believe that something may have happened during the test in BioShock. On top of all this, it is also hotter than the SLI 8800GT setup. The power consumption charts don't list the power consumption for the dual 8800s, but I'm sure those are a little bit higher, because of the fact that its two totally different cards.

Another thing that I would like to mention is that the X2 is not PCI-E 2.0 compliant, which means you don't get to make use of that added bandwidth if you have a PCI-E 2.0 board.


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## Gulo Luseus (May 12, 2007)

Time for the reply to Jon....
Originally Posted by Gulo Luseus 
Yes, getting an SLI rig is better than a single card, IF you have the cpu to back it up. A couple of 8800GT's with 3gig chip wont do a lot, go for a quaddie or a high dual core and yes, it will be better. 

Very little games are SMP enabled so dual and quad core processors don't mean much. No game that I know of will max the CPU. When you increase detail settings, AA and AF that is all on the GPU and have nothing to do with the CPU. 

Jon, yo umissed th epoint here. I was asying that if yo uwant a graphics card to work as it should, yo uneed a good cpu to go with it. If th eGPU is limited by the CPU then there is no point at all in having a better card


Originally Posted by Gulo Luseus 
Now.. tuppence worth here I come 
Like it or not, 3dmark is a benchmark. When a card scores lower than someoneelses card, it becomes an irrelevent benchmark. In terms of gameplay, I am happy to post FPS fo rany game I have, and wait for an ATI card to beat it. That represents real gameplay and benchmarks, hmm? 

It's a synthetic benchmark so for the last time it will not show you how your video card will perform on any single game available on the market. 


Again, missed the point. I did NOT say use 3dmark, I said I would post fps for any game I can, and wait for an ATI card equivalency. Thats is not artificial, that is a REAL test in REAL time in a REAL game. That is a direct comparison. And yes, I am aware that all the other hardware in the rig will have an overall effect, but what else can you do? 



Originally Posted by Gulo Luseus 
Secondly, I use a 680 chipset, and have had no, as in not one, problem with it. Works fine, doesnt glitch out, no problems at all. 

I have an Asus A8N32-SLI motherboard that uses an nForce4 SLI chipset and it's buggy as hell. Others here have already agreed with me. Good that yours is working fine but that doesn't mean everyone's will. 


You right. But its a 680, not an nforce 4. I used to have ATI cards, as did most of my asociates, but we got rid of them because they were terrible compard to nvidia at the time, drivers were really really bad, and support was awful. Therefore all ATI cards are useless? Analogical responses based onpresupportive data dont work, no matter how you ice them. And secondly, the only problem with the 680 chipset , as far ad i know, was the SATA issue. This affected aminority of boards, and was easily and quickly cured, and was only an issue for a very specific set of caserules.


Think I may follow Zeus shortly, as I really dont care for flamewars. I have no axe to grind for nvidia or ATI, just preferences based on experience. I used to be a total AMD fan, but wuth Intels new chips I was forced to embrace the quads, and to be honest it was agood move. In the same way I am happy to use ATI over Nvidia if they can be consistently better. However until the nvidia 9000 series come out, the direct comparison is not available.


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## into9rod (Jan 14, 2008)

ATI = New york giants
Nvidia = Patriots
lol


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

into9rod said:


> ATI = New york giants
> Nvidia = Patriots
> lol


You're just instigating, now...

Nvidia is pwning ATI at the moment, and will continue if ATI can't get it's act together. The 3870 should be performing like the 9800GX2 will be considering the technical specs, but its not. ATI has just now reached the point where it can contend with Nvidia's big dogs, and it will soon be out-shined, big time with the 9XXX series.

Good day.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> You're just instigating, now...
> 
> Nvidia is pwning ATI at the moment, and will continue if ATI can't get it's act together. The 3870 should be performing like the 9800GX2 will be considering the technical specs, but its not. ATI has just now reached the point where it can contend with Nvidia's big dogs, and it will soon be out-shined, big time with the 9XXX series.
> 
> Good day.


That pretty much sums you up in a nutshell. For a single card solution ATI now owns the performance crown. AnandTech even states so: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=13

"It has been far too long since AMD/ATI have been at the top of the performance charts; the crown had been lost on both CPU and GPU fronts, but today's Radeon HD 3870 X2 introduction begins to change that. The Radeon HD 3870 X2 is the most elegant single-card, multi-GPU design we've seen to date and the performance is indeed higher than any competing single-card NVIDIA solution out today."

So take your immature "pwning" talk somewhere else.

Given that you think a video card not being PCIe 2.0 means it's going to suffer at all in performance shows how much knowledge you lack on the subject: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3140&p=4

"Currently we aren't bandwidth limited by PCIe 1.1 with its 4GB/sec in each direction, so it's unlikely that the speed boost would really help. This sentiment is confirmed by game developers and NVIDIA..."

If you need anymore help just let me know. :up:


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Dude, Jon, thats all well and good, but what about the fact that it doesn't perform all that much better than an Ultra? Sure it costs less, but I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that the 9 series is out any time this month or in the next coming months, with the midrange card, the 9600GT, performing in the ranges of the 8800GTs, the 9800s are going to kill, once again. 

I'm all for competition, and thats why I'm criticizing AMD, is because they are late to the party, and not really even that lively in either areas (GPU/CPU). Unless AMD can better it's drivers, get some new, more efficient chips out, and manage itself better, its in for a world of hurt.

PCI-E 2.0 isn't much now, but down the road, you would be a fool to believe that it won't be useful, or damn near required.

Ignorance is bliss, right? Seriously, you need to just quiet down, because you can't see anywhere but 2 feet in front of you.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Dude, Jon, thats all well and good, but what about the fact that it doesn't perform all that much better than an Ultra? Sure it costs less, but I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that the 9 series is out any time this month or in the next coming months, with the midrange card, the 9600GT, performing in the ranges of the 8800GTs, the 9800s are going to kill, once again.


Yes, it has been the tale of the titans for a long time. Only with the 8800 series did nVIDIA take the lead for good until now. So of course nVIDIA's market share has done nothing but grow where as ATI's has done nothing but shrink.

Isn't the GeForce 9 series based upon the same technology in the G92? And the 9800 GX2 is supposed to be dual PCB? No doubt I'd love to see the price tag on it as well. :down:



Zeus.:God said:


> I'm all for competition, and thats why I'm criticizing AMD, is because they are late to the party, and not really even that lively in either areas (GPU/CPU). Unless AMD can better it's drivers, get some new, more efficient chips out, and manage itself better, its in for a world of hurt.


They had no idea what was in store for them with the Core 2 series so don't blame them. They were well ahead of Intel in performance until that point. It's amazing to see how many people flipped from AMD with the Core 2 Duo. Check out X-Bit Labs Reader's Choice award from 2005 and compare it to the 2007 results. 89% favored AMD in 2005 and now 81% favor Intel in 2007. Big difference that 2 years makes, eh?



Zeus.:God said:


> PCI-E 2.0 isn't much now, but down the road, you would be a fool to believe that it won't be useful, or damn near required.


Down the road? Like what? How many years are we talking here? It's the same as SATA 2.0. Let me guess, you think SATA 2.0 hard drives are faster than SATA 1.0 hard drives too? 

The bus is not the bottleneck. I'll post one more reference for you before I stop wasting my time: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3192&p=5

"Looking for performance improvements in today's technology offerings with the next-generation interconnect technology (like PCI Express 2.0) is largely futile."

"...we haven't noticed any performance differences when comparing PCI-E 1.x chipsets to PCI-E 2.0 chipsets with the newer GPUs, and we don't expect you to either."

They then talk of performance down the road with crazy multiple video card setups but PCIe X16 hasn't changed the performance for video cards even when compared to AGP 8X. PCIe for graphics gives you more *options*, never better performance. :up:



Zeus.:God said:


> Ignorance is bliss, right? Seriously, you need to just quiet down, because you can't see anywhere but 2 feet in front of you.


I just need to quiet down? I keep giving you links but you can't seem to *read* them. You act as if the 3870 X2 is bottlenecked by not being PCIe 2.0 and that's not even remotely the case.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Yes, it has been the tale of the titans for a long time. Only with the 8800 series did nVIDIA take the lead for good until now. So of course nVIDIA's market share has done nothing but grow where as ATI's has done nothing but shrink.
> 
> Isn't the GeForce 9 series based upon the same technology in the G92? And the 9800 GX2 is supposed to be dual PCB? No doubt I'd love to see the price tag on it as well. :down:
> 
> ...


You just don't seem to get the point. Its people like you who hold technology back...


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> You just don't seem to get the point. Its people like you who hold technology back...


I don't see how so. I'm merely pointing out YOUR false statement that the 3870 X2 suffers by not being PCIe 2.0. Are these not your words: *"Another thing that I would like to mention is that the X2 is not PCI-E 2.0 compliant, which means you don't get to make use of that added bandwidth if you have a PCI-E 2.0 board."*

That proves that you don't even understand PCIe 2.0 at all. To think that if they made it PCIe 2.0 it would be faster? Where did you ever come upon such delusional logic? Do you even know why they made it PCIe 1.1 instead? Again, I will give you a valid reason: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3192&p=3

"Unfortunately, there have been some reports of new PCI-E 2.0 graphics cards refusing to POST (Power On Self-Test) in motherboards containing chipsets without PCI Express 2.0 support."

So ATi is wanting to guarantee that their product will work in EVERY single motherboard on the market and that's a bad thing?  The card is suffering in no way by using PCIe 1.1 instead of 2.0.

Want to know something great about the 3870 X2? It uses it's own built-in 48-lane PCIe bridge. So it dedicates that much bandwidth for the GPUs to work together and on the *same* PCB. Do you think anything from nVIDIA is going to use that anytime soon? I don't really think so...

But to assume that I am against the advancement of technology now? You should really take the time to calm down and read a little more slowly. AnandTech even stated the positives of PCIe 2.0 and I agree with them. Of course you'd know those positives only if you read the links I keep providing you. :up:


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Really? They're wanting to "guarantee" that it will work, or are they leaving it out to reduce production costs so they can provide a more competitive product?

The HD 3870 has it. Why not the X2? Because it would just be too expensive to include compatibility with a newer technology because it can't be used to it's fullest at the time being.

You continue to insist that I don't know what is going on with these cards. I most certainly do, and I know the benefits of one PCB, but thats a non-issue at this point considering that Nvidia is going to be releasing their next generation cards in the very near future, whereas AMD JUST got up to speed. You are nothing but a "fanboy" of AMD, apparently, and while you do know a lot about whats going on with their cards, you have no common sense when it comes down to this, so this is my final post on this topic.

*
For those of you who are upgrading or considering a new build, if you're looking for gaming performance, and can afford it, get a board with SLI capabilities, as that is the most powerful way to go as of right now, and what appears to be in the future for gaming. If you only have 1 PCI-Express slot, and want either a stop-gap solution until you rebuild or want the latest in performance without the price, consider the X2.*


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Really? They're wanting to "guarantee" that it will work, or are they leaving it out to reduce production costs so they can provide a more competitive product?


I'm sure PCIe 1.1 bridge chips are cheaper than 2.0 but is there even a need? Do the math at how much bandwidth that is. Plus it does ensure complete compatibility with all motherboards as well.

They also used lower clocked memory to save as well. In the end the money all goes back into our pockets anyway. :up:



Zeus.:God said:


> The HD 3870 has it. Why not the X2? Because it would just be too expensive to include compatibility with a newer technology because it can't be used to it's fullest at the time being.


Again, there would be no performance difference had they used a PCIe 2.0 bridge chip. I've already shown proof of this.



Zeus.:God said:


> You continue to insist that I don't know what is going on with these cards. I most certainly do, and I know the benefits of one PCB, but thats a non-issue at this point considering that Nvidia is going to be releasing their next generation cards in the very near future, whereas AMD JUST got up to speed.


nVIDIA's card is going to be dual PCB like the 7950 GX2. Do you really think each GPU will have that much bandwidth between each other? I highly doubt it.

AMD just got up to speed? Well, no they have not. The 3870 X2 is nothing more than a pair of 3870 on the same PCB. AMD hasn't caught up at all per GPU. They just managed to do what nVIDIA doesn't want to...namely make a single PCB solution with dual GPUs on it.



Zeus.:God said:


> You are nothing but a "fanboy" of AMD, apparently, and while you do know a lot about whats going on with their cards, you have no common sense when it comes down to this, so this is my final post on this topic.


I'm a what? Lose the derogatory comments please. I've had both nVIDIA and ATi video cards, AMD and Intel processors. I am not simple minded enough to dedicate myself to one product when another offers better performance for the dollar. I'm merely pointing out how great of a product the 3870 X2 is and here you go with childish insults.

It's a prime example why nobody should listen to a word you say.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> I'm sure PCIe 1.1 bridge chips are cheaper than 2.0 but is there even a need? Do the math at how much bandwidth that is. Plus it does ensure complete compatibility with all motherboards as well.
> 
> They also used lower clocked memory to save as well. In the end the money all goes back into our pockets anyway. :up:
> 
> ...


Again, you absolutely fail to see the points that I'm making, and rather, you make points that are irrelevant. Keep on goin', bud. :up::down:


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Yes, sometimes I forget that I'm talking to a 17 year old kid. Wasting my time really. Hopefully you learned a thing or two. If not, try to stop spreading fabricated information to other people that visit this forum please. Thanks.


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## Gulo Luseus (May 12, 2007)

Ok, at this point I would like to take a quote from that epic and not nearly famous enough film, Shaun of the Dead"
CAN WE PLEASE CALM THE {CENSOR} DOWN!!

This is supposed to be a forum for discussion and assistance, not a flamefield. We are all aware that 2 majot manufacterurs make good cards, and we all have a personal favourite. This has, as far as I can see, gone past that point, and is getting a tad ugly. 
So, please guys, can we shake and make up, and leave the thread? I wont be coming back to it- except to watch the kiss and make up- and hopefuly it wont put anyone off. Thanks


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Yes, sometimes I forget that I'm talking to a 17 year old kid. Wasting my time really. Hopefully you learned a thing or two. If not, try to stop spreading fabricated information to other people that visit this forum please. Thanks.


Fabricated? Ok... Sure. 17 years old has nothing to do with it when you know what you're talking about.

Nvidia is the way to go, and there is absolutely NO way of getting around that. ATI is a good choice, but thats if you are on a budget. If you can afford it, go SLI with the 8800GTs or better- you won't be disappointed with better performance.

I find it funny that you try to deny everything I say when there is nothing that I have said that is wrong (excluding the release of the 7900GTX).

I recognize that the AMD cards are a great buy if you want performance, but in comparison to Nvidia, Nvidia just can't be beat at the time being. Its not like I'm pro-Nvidia, screw everything else, because competition is good, but I'm just telling it how it is, and you try to contest everything, for some strange reason.

Now, I'm seriously done with this thread, so if you want to try and have the "last word" like you apparently strive for, go ahead, but I'm not going to reply to any more of your non-sense.


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## PCNewbie23 (Feb 6, 2008)

Personally, I wouldn't bother buying an 8 series card right now since when the next generation cards from nVidia Come out they will pretty much leave the current ones in the dust...There has really been no need for dx10 as of now so spending all that money when it is not "necessary" doesn't make sense. If you are on a budget go with ati or a a 7800 or 7950 graphics card. It's less than 200 bucks, can't go wrong with that. It really depends on your situation...if you're planning to stick to a game that just recently came out like cod4 a 7 series card should hold up well for you. If you have the money to buy whatevever you want go ahead and put it out for the 8800 ultra.

I have a 7950 that I bought maybe 1 month ago for cod4 and it runs everything smoothly (except for my comp restarting problem) so I'm happy. I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer since I play cod4 almost every night after school or work lol. Gonna SLI that sucker in maybe half a year. This is all in my opinion of course...


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Gulo Luseus said:


> Ok, at this point I would like to take a quote from that epic and not nearly famous enough film, Shaun of the Dead"
> CAN WE PLEASE CALM THE {CENSOR} DOWN!!


I agree that he needs to calm down. :up:



Gulo Luseus said:


> This is supposed to be a forum for discussion and assistance, not a flamefield. We are all aware that 2 majot manufacterurs make good cards, and we all have a personal favourite. This has, as far as I can see, gone past that point, and is getting a tad ugly.


No, I do not have any favorite when it comes to computer hardware. I believe that picking a favorite leads you to blind decision making. :down:



Gulo Luseus said:


> So, please guys, can we shake and make up, and leave the thread? I wont be coming back to it- except to watch the kiss and make up- and hopefuly it wont put anyone off. Thanks


I have no problem with the kid. Not sure what you're talking about here.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Fabricated? Ok... Sure. 17 years old has nothing to do with it when you know what you're talking about.


Sure, I was never 17 years old one time. 

Really though, I'm not playing some game with you. There's no need for insults from you at all. Just read what I have provided and move along. I'm the one giving links to back up my statements where you have given nothing but insults. Does that tell you anything about how you are acting?



Zeus.:God said:


> Nvidia is the way to go, and there is absolutely NO way of getting around that. ATI is a good choice, but thats if you are on a budget. If you can afford it, go SLI with the 8800GTs or better- you won't be disappointed with better performance.


I wouldn't say that a $450 video card is a budget card at all.



Zeus.:God said:


> I find it funny that you try to deny everything I say when there is nothing that I have said that is wrong (excluding the release of the 7900GTX).


Well, not exactly and as I even pointed out with your statement of the 3870 X2 not making use of some sort of extra bandwidth and performance that PCIe 2.0 provides.



Zeus.:God said:


> I recognize that the AMD cards are a great buy if you want performance, but in comparison to Nvidia, Nvidia just can't be beat at the time being. Its not like I'm pro-Nvidia, screw everything else, because competition is good, but I'm just telling it how it is, and you try to contest everything, for some strange reason.


I merely suggested the 3870 X2 as a good choice at it's price and corrected some false statements on your part. In the end people are given *solid advice* from a renown website like AnandTech. I don't see the negatives in that at all.



Zeus.:God said:


> Now, I'm seriously done with this thread, so if you want to try and have the "last word" like you apparently strive for, go ahead, but I'm not going to reply to any more of your non-sense.


Again, this is *not* a game to me. I am not sure why you continue to believe that it is. If what I have said comes from sources like AnandTech are you calling them "nonsense"?


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## NeVeRReSt (Feb 11, 2007)

Buy the 8800GT's


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

NeVeRReSt said:


> Buy the 8800GT's


Agreed.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

NeVeRReSt said:


> Buy the 8800GT's


In some cases the 3870 X2 performs within 10% of a pair of 8800GT in SLI but costs 35% less (2X EVGA 8800GT + EVGA 680i SLI motherboard requirement = $700). I don't see why anyone would recommend that over a 3870 X2 unless they like throwing money away. :down:

A single 8800GT at $240 is a complete steal though. :up:


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> In some cases the 3870 X2 performs within 10% of a pair of 8800GT in SLI but costs 35% less (2X EVGA 8800GT + EVGA 680i SLI motherboard requirement = $700). I don't see why anyone would recommend that over a 3870 X2 unless they like throwing money away. :down:
> 
> A single 8800GT at $240 is a complete steal though. :up:


He is buying a new computer. Since he said he was considering the SLI setup, the SLI board is not an issue, because SLI boards are in the same price range as any other quality board.

On top of that, he doesn't need the 680i. He could easily go with a 650i which has darn near equivalent performance from what I've read about it. All he would lose with that setup is a few unimportant luxury items.

The video cards are the only factor in this equation, considering it will be an entirely fresh build. If you want to go that way, we can factor the cost of an Intel board of equal quality of the 680i. ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 + DFI LP UT P35 T2R mainboard = $700. Of course, you know, there are cheaper boards out there, but hey, it works conveniently for your argument to use the 680i, right?

No matter how you slice it, mainboards aren't the issue here. The 2 8800GTs provide more performance in nearly all cases, for 40 bucks more. Not to mention you get better drivers and a lot of tools such as system monitors.

Hell, here is a kick *** deal from Tiger Direct:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...tails.asp?EdpNo=3601833&sku=MCM-680ILT-Q6600B

XFX 680i SLI LT mainboard with an Intel Core 2 Quad and 4GB of OCZ DDR2 800MHz RAM for 400 bucks. That removes most of the costs right there, so there is pretty much no reason to not go with the dual 8800s.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

I normally wouldn't reply to you again but a Radeon 3870 X2 and the Abit IP35-E motherboard are $530. Not sure where you are pulling $700 out of.

I picked the 680i because of the pair of X16 PCIe slots. Weren't you the one talking about the 3870 X2 lacking PCIe 2.0's bandwidth? You'd want to go with a 680i motherboard to guarantee all that bandwidth that you think helps video card performance, right? This would go to back up your own words. If you are still going to stick to what you claim is right then you'd actually need a motherboard that supports PCIe 2.0 right?

So in that case you'd have to get this EVGA 780i motherboard instead. Which jacks the price of 8800GT in SLI with PCIe 2.0 to $750.

Add on the requirement of DDR3 here too, buddy. The cheapest DDR3 dual channel kit of 2GB that I found was $200. That's nearly 400% the price of a DDR2 dual channel kit of 2GB.

Come on, gotta back up everything you say with facts and proof! :up:


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> I normally wouldn't reply to you again but a Radeon 3870 X2 and the Abit IP35-E motherboard are $530. Not sure where you are pulling $700 out of.
> 
> I picked the 680i because of the pair of X16 PCIe slots. Weren't you the one talking about the 3870 X2 lacking PCIe 2.0's bandwidth? You'd want to go with a 680i motherboard to guarantee all that bandwidth that you think helps video card performance, right? This would go to back up your own words. If you are still going to stick to what you claim is right then you'd actually need a motherboard that supports PCIe 2.0 right?
> 
> ...


Like you said, that bandwidth doesn't matter, as proved by tests with SLI'd 8800GTXs on the 650i. Identical performance to the 680i.

Maybe, if you weren't so ignorant, you would check to see where I was getting that price from by searching some online retailers (NewEgg, for example) to check out what I was saying.

PCI-E 2.0 isn't important now, but it very well could be in the near future. Seriously, arguing with you is like arguing with a child, and thats especially bad, because I'm 17 and you really don't have any grounds of proving me wrong. You can just factor in whatever you like to get the result you want from either side.

The absolute FACT of the matter is, the 8800GTs are the better buy, NO MATTER how you look at it, so give it up already.

I'm through with you once and for all, so if you choose to respond to this, you're just prolonging the issue, and proving your immaturity.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

35% more price for as little as 10% boost in performance? That's the better buy? I'm just giving the accurate numbers here. At least one of us is.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

We both are, it's just you're bending it with a more expensive board than you need.

It is FAR from 35% more for the SLI setup. You're just being foolish. Honestly, I've never, EVER seen someone spout this much crap on a tech support forum. You should be ashamed.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

More expensive board than I need? Why, I'm only using something like a 680i board because of your bandwidth requirements. I guess I could really drop down to a 650i motherboard to save some money but wouldn't that be choking the performance of PCIe 2.0 capable 8800GT video cards? That chipset has two PCIe X16 slots with only X8 capability each. That's cutting half the bandwidth away!

If you are going to run your mouth about the bandwidth then you should stick to your guns. Changing your tune in the middle of a conversation makes it look like you aren't sure what you are talking about.

So, we're not going to go with PCIe 2.0 capable 780i and go with the 680i chipset instead, which at least gives a full X16 PCIe lanes to each X16 PCIe slot. At least in the benchmarks that I showed you that compare the 3870 X2 to 8800GT in SLI they used a EVGA 780i motherboard. Now you are going to choke the performance of your recommendation by going with the 650i chipset? Really? Do you think the benchmarks would slow the 8800GT in SLI down a little?

Remember, stick to your guns...


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> More expensive board than I need? Why, I'm only using something like a 680i board because of your bandwidth requirements. I guess I could really drop down to a 650i motherboard to save some money but wouldn't that be choking the performance of PCIe 2.0 capable 8800GT video cards? That chipset has two PCIe X16 slots with only X8 capability each. That's cutting half the bandwidth away!
> 
> If you are going to run your mouth about the bandwidth then you should stick to your guns. Changing your tune in the middle of a conversation makes it look like you aren't sure what you are talking about.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to bother to read that tripe. Grow up, and get off these forums unless you feel like HELPING PEOPLE, not arguing over non-issues.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

I am trying to help people, help them save money. That was my point of showing that 35% more price but as little as 10% more performance. I'm not going to assume that everyone has money flowing out their wazoo.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Assumption

1.	something taken for granted; a supposition: a correct assumption.
2.	the act of taking for granted or supposing.
3.	the act of taking to or upon oneself.
4.	the act of taking possession of something: the assumption of power.
5.	arrogance; presumption. :down:
6.	the taking over of another's debts or obligations.

*Note:* I don't see you sticking to your guns about the bandwidth comment you made earlier. I believe it was, "Another thing that I would like to mention is that the X2 is not PCI-E 2.0 compliant, which means you don't get to make use of that added bandwidth if you have a PCI-E 2.0 board."

By stating that would you not encourage people to get a motherboard with PCIe 2.0? After all, the 8800GT is a PCIe 2.0 video card. You wouldn't want them having issues running on a PCIe 1.X motherboard as AnandTech has even stated, would you?


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

Keep on instigating, buddy.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey, if there's anymore help or advice that I can give you in the future, just let me know.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Hey, if there's anymore help or advice that I can give you in the future, just let me know.


Or lack there of, yeah, sure I'll call on you if I need any help one what not to do.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Looks to me like you need obvious help here: http://forums.techguy.org/5536830-post.html

Heat issues with your 8800GT? Problems with your nVIDIA 680i powered motherboard? BSODs?

1. Quite the hypocrite to be recommending this stuff to others with the problems you are having.
2. Who would get a Rosewill (NewEgg brand) power supply? :down:

Let me guess, not very familiar with how to pick a PSU?


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## Gulo Luseus (May 12, 2007)

From the rules board......
Crude or Rude Intent - Tech Support Guy was designed to be a community of people who can help one-another, and should be completely free of any profanity and vulgar language. There is absolutely no excuse for being rude to a user. Uncivilized and offensive language (especially cursing of any sort), images, or anything else, used anywhere on the board (including your user name) is completely unacceptable. 
Irrelevant and/or Inflammatory Postings - While we certainly don't discourage productive and useful debate relating to the particular topic at issue, posts that are made for the purpose of arguing or debating, in a nonproductive or inflammatory manner, an irrelevant or ancillary issue with either the topic starter or another poster are not permitted.


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## reezin14 (Oct 16, 2007)

If your going to be using res above 1680 then the two gpu's are a plus but you could get away with just one. I'm sure you'll be satisfied either way.Go with the 8800GT


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Looks to me like you need obvious help here: http://forums.techguy.org/5536830-post.html
> 
> Heat issues with your 8800GT?


Not problems at all. They are well within parameters and my performances issues were found elsewhere. Oh, by the way, your oh so precious 3870 X2 produces equal amounts of heat. 



> Problems with your nVIDIA 680i powered motherboard? BSODs?


Remember when I posted earlier? I said the only issues I had were after I messed with the registry- thats where the BSODs were coming from.



> 1. Quite the hypocrite to be recommending this stuff to others with the problems you are having.


Really? I would say they were just dumb mistakes.



> 2. Who would get a Rosewill (NewEgg brand) power supply? :down:


An absolutely AMAZING quality power supply, and would recommend it to ANYONE in the market for one.



> Let me guess, not very familiar with how to pick a PSU?


[/quote]

Meaning? I had some issues a while back figuring things out with the labeling, but other than that, there isn't much more to know.

All in all, nice try, but you've failed pretty hard at making a point. All you have succeeded at is trolling.


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## jonmcc33 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zeus.:God said:


> Not problems at all. They are well within parameters and my performances issues were found elsewhere. Oh, by the way, your oh so precious 3870 X2 produces equal amounts of heat.


Actually, wrong again. 

This link shows that under load the Radeon 3870 X2 hits 81C max where as an 8800GT under load goes as high as 91C. Please make sure to read that link. It comes from a reliable source. Thanks! :up:



Zeus.:God said:


> Remember when I posted earlier? I said the only issues I had were after I messed with the registry- thats where the BSODs were coming from.


So why are you messing around in your registry? You only do that as a last resort to the OS not working properly. So you broke your own computer and you want people to follow your advice? I've *never* messed up any Windows install anytime I have been in the registry. 



Zeus.:God said:


> Really? I would say they were just dumb mistakes.


Your mistakes were quite costly it seems. How often do you make mistakes? 



Zeus.:God said:


> An absolutely AMAZING quality power supply, and would recommend it to ANYONE in the market for one.


If you say so. I surely wouldn't recommend it above an Antec, Enermax, PCP&C, SeaSonic, Corsair, OCZ or FSP power supply. That's just me though. To each his own.



Zeus.:God said:


> Meaning? I had some issues a while back figuring things out with the labeling, but other than that, there isn't much more to know.
> 
> All in all, nice try, but you've failed pretty hard at making a point. All you have succeeded at is trolling.


My point was that you obviously need help even when you say you don't. You seem quite arrogant and full of yourself no matter what solid facts and resources are given to you. Here you've proven to be a hypocrite in the worst way. :down:

Trolling? I can point out several posts from you that are a big example of trolling if you want. 

Edit- Please note that this thread is beyond done by now and should be marked "Solved". I have wasted too much time talking to you in regards to this.


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

jonmcc33 said:


> Actually, wrong again.
> 
> This link shows that under load the Radeon 3870 X2 hits 81C max where as an 8800GT under load goes as high as 91C. Please make sure to read that link. It comes from a reliable source. Thanks! :up:


Yeah? Mine has only hit 82 degrees max. While some reviews show this card getting really hot, they do so with the X2 as well.



> So why are you messing around in your registry? You only do that as a last resort to the OS not working properly. So you broke your own computer and you want people to follow your advice? I've *never* messed up any Windows install anytime I have been in the registry.


I didn't mess up any Windows install ever, I don't even remember what it was that made me mess with the registry. No matter how you look at it, it was in the past, and I learn from my mistakes. As a matter of fact, it doesn't make sense how my reg got screwed up, because I backed it up, and when I loaded everything back, and restarted I started getting blue screens, so it's of no fault of my own. Just a random screw up.



> Your mistakes were quite costly it seems. How often do you make mistakes?


None of my mistakes have been "costly" and I hardly ever make mistakes.



> If you say so. I surely wouldn't recommend it above an Antec, Enermax, PCP&C, SeaSonic, Corsair, OCZ or FSP power supply. That's just me though. To each his own.


I definitely would. Have you ever owned a Rosewill power supply? I made my decision after a friend of mine bought one for his computer. I liked what I saw, I liked the specifications, the warranties, and I liked the price as well. It's called being a smart consumer, and if it gets the job done, its a good product. Well, this Rosewill has GREAT build quality and provides a GREAT power/price ratio, so there is no way you can go wrong with it.



> My point was that you obviously need help even when you say you don't. You seem quite arrogant and full of yourself no matter what solid facts and resources are given to you. Here you've proven to be a hypocrite in the worst way. :down:


How do you mean? I only speak upon topics of which I know. I don't sit there and give out false information or advice like you have been.



> Trolling? I can point out several posts from you that are a big example of trolling if you want.


Do you even know what trolling is? You post in order to get a reaction, and you have been the entire time. I've made 2 trolling posts, or so.
Edit- Please note that this thread is beyond done by now and should be marked "Solved". I have wasted too much time talking to you in regards to this.[/QUOTE]


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## into9rod (Jan 14, 2008)

Im getting the 3850 insted on the 8800 gt because the price its like 70 dlls cheaper 
 and in one year that the games going to require more hardcore graphics i can get the second one and its going to perform better than a single 8800GT 240 dlls :down: and with a spider mobo you can get 4 of this babies working together...
i was gonna get the Fastest 3870 x2 but its too expensive...


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## Zeus.:God (Dec 28, 2006)

into9rod said:


> Im getting the 3850 insted on the 8800 gt because the price its like 70 dlls cheaper
> and in one year that the games going to require more hardcore graphics i can get the second one and its going to perform better than a single 8800GT 240 dlls :down: and with a spider mobo you can get 4 of this babies working together...
> i was gonna get the Fastest 3870 x2 but its too expensive...


The AMD cards are on the same track as far as peformance/price goes with their Nvidia counter-parts, for the most part. The 3850 is a good card, only, I'm sure you'll be upgrading to a more substantial card than the 3850, rather than purchasing a second, because you'll see that these cards will all be very far behind and unable to run games at their max (3870 and 8800 series included).


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