# URGENT: Windows 3.1 Setup



## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

I've got a laptop that i'm trying to install Win3.1 on it, and i have all of the installation floppy disks. When i go and choose a directory to install it in: "C:/WINDOWS", it says:



> Setup is unable to create the specified directory on the specified.
> -Press Enter to type a different path and continue Setup.


*I do not know what harddrive's name is (Such as 'C'). How can i find out? Maybe its named something else, how can i detect its drive name?!


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

Looks like you entered a forward "slash"
as in "*C:/WINDOWS*"
where you really should have entered a backward slash (a "bash" ?)
as in "*C:\WINDOWS*"


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

well... that's not the case... but the problem is werid... it says that they are unable to create the file (Maybe i typed the backslash wrong on the post). But if i made a format on that computer, it possibly easier to install 3.1 there... Right?!
C'mon MORE PEOPLE POST!


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

(Maybe you typed the backslash wrong? Do you think the board, here, changed it on you?  )

I don't understand why you are specifying a directory anyway, I thought the Windows 3.x install always created the WINDOWS directory for you, regardless. I believe you only need to let the install routine know what drive to install on. In fact, I think if you just boot up on the first floppy disk, it will do all the correct entries for you. You only need to accept the defaults. But it has been a while since I have done it myself, so this is pretty vague. I only remember that the install was very easy, not requiring any 'figuring out' on my behalf.


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## bonzobob999 (Nov 24, 2004)

Have you formated the drive? is there already a WINDOWS dir on the drive?


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## brushmaster1 (Jun 15, 2002)

Do you have DOS installed? Windows 3.x requires DOS...


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

brushmaster1 said:


> Do you have DOS installed? Windows 3.x requires DOS...


DOS is needed for the operation of Win3.1, but I don't think it has to be there for initially installing it.
I believe a fresh install from the Win3.1 disks will install DOS into its expected location.
So, I do not think DOS has to be installed prior to installing Win3.1

When you boot with the Win3.1 #1 setup disk, things needed are loaded.


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## CouchMaster (May 26, 2003)

http://micro.uoregon.edu/tips/cleaninstall/#win31


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## Squashman (Apr 4, 2003)

ChuckE said:


> DOS is needed for the operation of Win3.1, but I don't think it has to be there for initially installing it.
> I believe a fresh install from the Win3.1 disks will install DOS into its expected location.
> So, I do not think DOS has to be installed prior to installing Win3.1
> 
> When you boot with the Win3.1 #1 setup disk, things needed are loaded.


Windows 3.1 runs ontop of dos, so you need a full version of dos installed first.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

but after i format the computer, what do i do to get a drive type back? (fat, fat 16...) and which one for 3.1s?


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

DOS uses FAT (FAT16)


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## Perfesser (Jun 2, 2003)

A few thoughts: 
Is this one of those old laptops that calls the HD the 'A'? 
You can find the name of the HD with the DOS 'chkdsk' command but the label only will be needed if you're going to format the drive - it asks for it as a safety measure.
To get all the hardware (sound, CD Rom, and some others) to work under Windows 3.1 - it isn't plug & pray - you have to get them recognized by DOS first; i.e. you will need the sound drivers and CD driver on the hard drive and correctly set up in config.sys and autoexec.bat. Syntax is different for the different manufacturers.
If you're going to set up a 3.1 system DOS MUST be installed first...you wouldn't even be able to start Windows without it.
Get a set of DOS 6.22 disks, boot the computer from the first one; if it says there is no HD then run FDISK from the A: prompt and set up the disk, then format, then reboot and install DOS, get the sound/CD going, THEN install Win 3.1. Sounds like a lot of work, but the foundation must be built first.
BTW...do you have video drivers for the laptop? You may be stuck with 16 or 256 colors.

I still use 3.1 for a couple of old astronomy apps that won't run on 98/ME. I have a large collection of drivers and other stuff, and I use a 'streamlined' DOS 6.22 install...only the essentials on 2 floppys - you boot from the first, set up the HD with fdisk and format /s, copy the rest of the files into c:\DOS, reboot from the HD and start installing drivers. Once that's done, install windows.


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

I just tried it. I was able to install Win 3.11 on a HD without first installing DOS...
While it looked, at first, that Windows was there, but there is so much still lacking that essentially it was unusable.
-------------------------
What I had done:
I formatted a HD and just booted up on a floppy.
I inserted the Win3.11 Floppy 1 (of 6) and typed C:SETUP

The install of Windows proceeded, as I would expect.
After the install of all the floppies, I could play around with Win3.11, but when I exited Windows, the floppy with the DOS system on it was required.

I shut off the computer and turned it back on.
But, because the (hidden) system files were not on the HD it stopped.
(Yes, I know I could have formatted the C: drive with the FORMAT /S command, but I purposefully wanted to do it this way.)

So, then I rebooted with the floppy again and transfered the System files (using the "SYS C:" command).

So then I was able to boot up with the HD, however typing, at the C:> prompt, WINDOWS\WIN, all that resulted was:
*Missing HIMEM.SYS*

Arrgggh! this is too much trouble to go through adding all the required SYS files and whatever else it needs. So, I will agree with Perfesser, and the rest, that DOS should be already there, prior to installing Windows.

If for nothing else, it is going to make the installation much easier. I do not believe that a full version of DOS must be installed first, but why quibble? just install it all, and whatever else might be needed, will then already be there. (Not any specific device drivers, that you will need from those other manufacturers.)

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Side note: WOW! Looking at old Win3 brought back a flood of memories.
How far we have come! ... I don't miss it a bit.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

wait... how would i format a 3.1? i only have the installation disk for 3.1 and the dos disk...
And after i format, how can i set back the drive type (which is fat16)?


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

There is no such thing as a Win3.1 formatted disk. You are confusing disk operating systems and (user perceived) operating systems.

Windows (blank=1, 2, 3.anything, NT, 95, 98, ME, XP, and so on) are all (user perceived) Operating Systems (OS's). They are not Disk Operating Systems (DOS).

A (user perceived) Operating System, usually (but not always) provides a GUI (Graphical User Interface) so that the user can easily "interface" to the user. You know, those icons, and relatively common types of windows (control boxes) that all look similar enough to each other, so the user (after a while) can be comfortable in knowing how to control whatever to do the task at hand.

DOS, on the other hand, is the system of understanding how (in what format, and organization) to place data on a disk (floppy, hard drive, and lately even solid state media).

You want to use your DOS disks (many versions available) to boot up, then format your hard drive, and install DOS and its complement of files to the hard drive.
Then you use your set of Windows 3.1 disks to install Win3.1 onto the hard drive.

Also, do not get confused with the numbers in the versions of DOS. There actually are versions of DOS like 1, 2, 3.0, 3.1, 3.22, 3.3, 4, 5, 6, and I think the latest standalone DOS was 6.22. Those numbers have NOTHING to do with the version numbers of Windows.

You can format your hard drive with DOS 6.22 (recommended) to then install Windows 3.1. One has nothing to do with the other.
It is recommended that you do not use DOS less than about 3.3, since there were some useful functions added to DOS 3.3 and beyond.

Since Windows 3.1 runs on DOS, it uses DOS to handle all floppy and hard drive functions. When you use the controls in Win3.1 to format a floppy, you really are formating with whatever version of DOS you actually have.

All floppy disks use FAT 16 now. (FAT = File Allocation Table.) Before FAT16 was a FAT 12, but just referred to as FAT, but I don't think you will ever see that anymore. The reason for the versions of DOS beyond 16 was to provide for much larger storage devices. FAT16 has a limit of how big of a storage devices you can easily and efficiently handle (~500 MB, or with a modification, about 2 GB, 4x bigger than that 500MB). But now you will find that hard drives MUCH GREATER than 2GB are common, but not in floppies. So, at least for now, FAT16 is sufficient, and common, for floppies.


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## brushmaster1 (Jun 15, 2002)

> It is recommended that you do not use DOS less than about 3.3, since there were some useful functions added to DOS 3.3 and beyond.


Actually, Windows 3.1 requires DOS 5 or higher... many of the needed files are missing from lower versions of DOS (Himem.sys, for instance)...


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

Floppies still use Fat12.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

i can't find which drive the computer's using, used chkdsk, it only showed the space in the drive and it doesn't show which hd its using.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

any other methods of finding the harddrive name?


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## Jedi_Master (Mar 13, 2002)

Howdy folks...

courtlandhui...

Try booting with a boot floppy and using fdisk to see if the hard drive partition is set as active...


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

so... use the 3.1 boot disk?


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## Jedi_Master (Mar 13, 2002)

Don't think so, fdisk is a DOS command, you could look on the 3.1 disk and see if it is there...


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

I have Win3.1 disks from Microsoft. They are not bootable. So you can't boot with the Win3.1 #1 disk (it isn't called a "boot disk," since it isn't.)

To initially set up your computer for installing Windows, the easiest way would be clean everything off the hard drive. That means to lose everything already on that hard drive. If that is what you want to do, then:
Boot up with your DOS installation disks;
do an FDISK for the C: drive, so as to check and reset, if necessary, the partitions for that drive;
make the first partition (if there are more than one partitions) active;
then FORMAT that C: partition, use the /S switch to transfer the system files to that C: drive and bootable;
and install DOS on that hard drive.

After you have DOS installed, and you are sure the PC actually can boot up with just that C: drive, then
put in the #1 Win3.1 disk and type *C:\SETUP*
That should install Windows 3.1, and additionally make the necessary modifications to your system start-up files (like AUTOEXEC.BAT, CONFIG.SYS, etc.)

Good luck, but you really ought to read the documentation for installing Win3.1, with careful reading, and a fair attempt at trying to understand, you should be able to do it on your own. Asking one question after another question after another, here on this Board is laborious in trying to learn all it seems you need to learn. A good book, or installation manual, will be much quicker.


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

At a DOS command prompt; fdisk/status

This will tell you how many hard disks there are, and the drive partitions on them, along with their sizes.


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## Rockn (Jul 29, 2001)

Here, pictures and everything:
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/indexwin31.htm
This is really basic stuff.


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## CaptainStorm (Aug 2, 2005)

Simply install Dos 5-6.22(You MUST install DOS first!) and then install Windows 3.1 and that is it!


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

that's not the problem, some how, it can't find C drive..., but then i put a new harddrive... probably no partition. How do i make a partition on a harddrive using a boot disk?


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

nvm. but now when i made it using fdisk, it has usage on 100%, thus i can't install windows


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

You first have to install a version of DOS onto the first hard disk. I'd recommend MSDOS 6.22. I take it you have an installation set of floppies? For DOS? Disk 1 of the three or four disk set is the bootdisk. Boot the machine with that. Run fdisk. Answer NO to large disk support.

Type in 4 to display the partition information for the hard disk. Near the upper left of the screen it will tell you which hard disk you are working with if there is more than one. If there is more than one you will also have an Option 5 in the main menu to change disks.

You want a primary, active partition for C:. It can be 2GB max. If it's not there, create it, ensure it's set as an active partition, close fdisk, and reboot with the bootdisk.

Format the C: partition. I use format/c/autotest c:. When it's done formatting, type in setup. Change the floppy disks as per the screen prompts.

When DOS is installed and the system boots on its own, put Disk 1 of the Windows 3.1 setup set into the A: drive, and type in a:\setup and follow the prompts.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

but the usage is at 100 percent... doesn't it mean that C drive is full?


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## Jedi_Master (Mar 13, 2002)

Ahhh...No...

That means that *You* have 100% usage ofthe drive...


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

ok. good thanks... i shal try to install


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

ok, i got dos installed, now when i install Windows 3.1, it can't find user.exe on the 2nd disk. But its there in the first disk, but the first disk's user.exe corrupts the install...


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## Dan Penny (Mar 25, 2005)

It sounds like you might have a bad floppy diskette.

One thing you can try is make 7 new directories on the hard disk and copy each floppy into each directory. Run setup from the first directory and when prompted for the next floppy, point the install to the appropriate next directory.

Note: don't copy all files into one directory as the (floppy) disk ID files on each floppy all have the same name and the previous one you've copied will be overwritten, so you only end up with the last one.

Or, pick up another set of Win 3.1 install floppies.


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

Dan Penny said:


> ... don't copy all files into one directory as the (floppy) disk ID files on each floppy all have the same name and the previous one you've copied will be overwritten, so you only end up with the last one.


Not necessarily true, if Win3.1 floppies are the same sort of assemblage as Windows 3.11.

I just grabbed all the files off my install floppies for Windows 3.11 and put all 460 files into one folder. The 'disk ID' file for each floppy is uniquely named, as in "DISK1" "DISK2" "DISK3" etc.

There is no issue, at least for Windows 3.11, to put all the files from all the install floppies into one location. As the install happens it will read to see if the "DISKn" file exists and, if so, then continues, without asking for the next floppy.


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

i did that... (before u posted) and they weren't uniquely named. it asked "do you want to over write" so i said no for all of them.
anyways... i couldn't even load installation! (after all the hardware loads)!


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

and where would i get some 3.1 floppies for free?!


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

major install problem
after loading the nessary files to start the installation, (aka boot into install windows mode), the screen mess up (tried w/ few different installations). I plugged it on to my LCD (just to make sure it's not screwy) it's all messed up (not even close to seeing the installation) and on the Laptop (which i'm installing it on) turns white... screwie... any way to fix this?


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

i figured the problem, it was teh wrong driver display, it was set to VGA, but Super VGA settings solved it.


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## GoldStar611 (Jan 24, 2006)

Hi, I have the 6 windows 3.1 setup disks. If you need a file or two I can copy them from my original set  I am currently trying to build a "LIVE" CD to run windows 3.1 from a ramdrive. I have it working but it requires a boot disk (which I would like to boot directly from cdrom). Post here if you have questions (I don't have a real email )


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## courtlandhui (Oct 16, 2004)

?! shouldn't u make a new post for that?


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