# Markets Change Whether You Like It Or Not



## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

"So the first point that we talk about all the time is that these changes in the market are happening -- no matter what. As much as the legacy providers don't like it, they don't seem to offer any serious alternatives, other than denial or screaming about how much they don't like it. They don't offer any serious alternatives."
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090824/0149325971.shtml


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

An interesting article.
But what was avoided was that the disruptive technological aspects of P2P used illegally lead to a market scenario of non financial reimbursement for the exchange of intellectual property.
The concept of non compensation is not a viable business model.
New market models do need to be devised that preclude the issues of stealing.


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Stoner said:


> An interesting article.
> But what was avoided was that the disruptive technological aspects of P2P used illegally lead to a market scenario of non financial reimbursement for the exchange of intellectual property.
> The concept of non compensation is not a viable business model.
> New market models do need to be devised that preclude the issues of stealing.


There will always be a few criminals, like it or not.

A long-time friend of mine is the meat manager for a major grocery store in town here.
They have surveillance cameras, security guards, scanners and "Undercover Shoppers." Things still get stolen. Doesn't mean the majority of people are thieves. At least we aren't here in Canada.

There will always be some you can't deter in any way, shape, or form.
Maybe it isn't a choice for them, who knows?

By the way, the grocery store chain mentioned above is the second "big business" that I know of that claims most theft is committed by employees, not customers.
It isn't you or me getting our hands on unreleased material and posting it on the internet. Well, me anyway, I can't speak for you.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

RootbeaR said:


> There will always be a few criminals, like it or not.
> 
> A long-time friend of mine is the meat manager for a major grocery store in town here.
> They have surveillance cameras, security guards, scanners and "Undercover Shoppers." Things still get stolen. Doesn't mean the majority of people are thieves. At least we aren't here in Canada.
> ...





> There will always be a few criminals, like it or not.


Indeed.
And when their ranks swell and become an economic problem, their voices are often heard in protest to the legal responses from their victims.



> It isn't you or me getting our hands on unreleased material and posting it on the internet. Well, me anyway, I can't speak for you.


And I don't speak for you, your arguments in Civ Debate concerning stealing by P2P speak for themselves.


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Stoner said:


> Indeed.
> And when their ranks swell and become an economic problem, their voices are often heard in protest to the legal responses from their victims.
> 
> And I don't speak for you, your arguments in Civ Debate concerning stealing by P2P speak for themselves.


The only reason I defend P2P is for the Linux community. Not stealing at all.

You believe what you want.

I happen to know for a fact that stealing really does cost us all. Don't believe me? Get your hands on some financial statements.

I noticed you didn't deny infringing on copyright. Laws are laws.
I'll admit, I have borrowed and loaned out many a DVD. Some that I borrowed I have even purchased after liking what I saw.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

RootbeaR said:


> The only reason I defend P2P is for the Linux community. Not stealing at all.
> 
> You believe what you want.
> 
> ...


Looks like you are turning this thread into a debate.
You really want to do that?



> The only reason I defend P2P is for the Linux community. Not stealing at all.


Well, you do give the impression of being an apologist for the theft aspect of P2P in the debate forum. You have described it as 'sharing'.



> You believe what you want.


Thank you for allowing that.



> I happen to know for a fact that stealing really does cost us all.


Well, this is one of the contradictory aspects of your posting that I've referred to in Civ Debate.
There, you argue that stealing leads to greater sales of music and movies, even increasing corporate profits.
http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/852842-p2p-korporate-kopyright-klaims.html



> I noticed you didn't deny infringing on copyright.


I wasn't asked.
I'm not aware that I do.
But as you pointed out, there are many small indiscretions that are seemingly innocent but technically violations.
However, the scale of theft by illegal means through P2P is not exactly a small indiscretion 



> I'll admit, I have borrowed and loaned out many a DVD. Some that I borrowed I have even purchased after liking what I saw.


I doubt anyone is really offended by that, RootbeaR.
Sharing several billion dollars worth of DVDs might change some minds 

Would you like to take this debate to Civ Debate?


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Stoner said:


> Would you like to take this debate to Civ Debate?


Do whatever you want, I've said my piece.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

RootbeaR said:


> Do whatever you want, I've said my piece.


Are you saying you'd like to close this thread?


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## RootbeaR (Dec 9, 2006)

Stoner said:


> Are you saying you'd like to close this thread?


If you wish to debate the article, request it moved, otherwise it can stay here.

Nothing to do with closing. Where did that come from?

Should we close all threads here that aren't being debated?


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

RootbeaR said:


> If you wish to debate the article, request it moved, otherwise it can stay here.
> 
> Nothing to do with closing. Where did that come from?
> 
> Should we close all threads here that aren't being debated?





> If you wish to debate the article, request it moved, otherwise it can stay here.


It's you and I that have been debating, RootBeaR.



> Nothing to do with closing. Where did that come from?


You said you were done ( obviously not  ) and I could do as I wanted. (  )



> Should we close all threads here that aren't being debated?


Non sequitur........this is not a debate forum.


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