# [SOLVED!] win 98SE problems



## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, of late I'm experiencing problems with win98SE. 
1..- It doesn't shut down properly, I don't get the "it's now safe to turn..." screen. If I'm lucky after the "windows is shuting down" splash screen, I get to a black screen with a blinking cursor in the uper left hand corner.
Sometyimes it stops at the "windows is shuting down" screen, and if I turn the comp off I'm sure to get to the scandisk screen when I boot up again.
I've installed the M$ shut down patch to no effect. Fast shut down is desabled already. I've reinstalled win just in case...

2..-When I boot up, I get:
"Please wait while Setup updates your configuration files. This may take a few minutes.
Completed updating files, continuing loading windows...

Can somebody help? I run msconfig and I found some checked boxes in autoexec.bat that I don't understand. I did a screen capture and sent it to my descktop but I don't know how to do it to post it in the message. If anybody think it might be relevant I'll manually post it.
Thank you in advance
sebastian


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian
This problem could be rather complex or could be simple so we will approach it simple first.
Has this problem just occurred? If so have you installed or downloaded and installed any programs lately that could be tied to this event? If so try uninstalling it. The updating files upon startup is telling us there is a Wininit.ini file in the C:\Windows folder. Now this program could be a left over from a failed attempt by software installation you initiated or it could also be a virus. So I suggest going to Housecalls and running a free full online Antivirus scan. If a virus is found please record what it is and have housecalls help you remove it. 
If a virus or trojan is not found then do a search for the Wininit.ini file. Once found Try renaming it Wininit.old and restart system. If unsuccesfull renaming and correcting problem then delete the file through DOS and restart system.
Run through what we have so far and get to us so we can continue if necessary.

Dave


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi Davey 7549, I did a virus scan and it came clean. I also used my onboard AV (AVC) with the same results.
Renaming the Wininit.ini to old didn't help. How do I delete it through DOS?
Thank you for your time 
sebastian


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian 
We may want to see the Wininit.ini contents so.......
Before we delete this file try using the save as function and saving the wininit.ini file as winchg.txt Then try deleting the wininit.ini file first in normal mode. If no joy then boot to DOS mode and once at "C" prompt type:

Note: C:\Windows is the first part on the string where the file is located. If the suspect Wininit.ini is located in your Windows folder then:

Command is........
Del C:\windows\wininit.ini 

Dave


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

OK it worked, and It was enough performing a normal delete. Frankly I'm scared of DOS (once I deleted my whole HD using the deltree function!! Not funny)
Now for the shutdown problem, any sugestions?
sebastian


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian
Did you by chance manage to save as a copy of the Wininit.ini as a text file? If attach it here so we can have a look.

Dave


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Sure, it is only 1 line. Here it is:

[rename]
NUL=C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6\$AVGUPD$.BKP


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian
What is the current status of Grisofts AVG (Antivirus on your system)?
If it is operational then try shutting it down using its disabling ability or from Ctrl,alt,del ending task then try shutting down.

Dave


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, I always have AGG runing... I did what you adviced but it obviously wasn't the problem unless we didn't understand each other. I explain:

The bootup prob is gone, deleting the wininit.ini file did the trick.


As for the shut down I'm still there. It is a blinking cursor on the left side, or just "windows is shuting down" spash. In which case it throws my comp to scan disk when restarting.
I did d/l the shut down patch from M$ and installed it.
I did check if the "fast shutdown" option was desabled.
I did a reinstall of WIN98SE from safe mode, from DOS and from my cab files.

Can you help further? 
Thank you again
sebastian


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian 
No we are understanding eachother OK. The reason I mentioned AVG is it could be causing your shutdown problem if it is not completing\shutting down properly. Have you tried shutting it down manually first and then try your standard system shutdown? 

Dave


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Yes, I did the 3 finger thing and closed
avgcc32 and
avgserv9

but it didn't help. Sorry I forgot to mention it.
sebastian


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## Davey7549 (Feb 28, 2001)

Sebastian
Well then the only other easy item we can do is try using Ctrl, Alt, Del and ending task on all items listed except Explorer. Oh by the way is Rnapp listed in your task manager listing. If so Rnapp has been known to be delayed in its normal shutdown and will cause a hang at system shutdown.

If the above does not work then I will give you the link to the rather tedious resolution to this problem.

Dave


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It might help to have a gander at the StartUp.log -- this will show what's in autoexec.bat as well as other places.

You can download either the zipped version or unzipped (use the ONLY IE link at the very bottom of the Toys page).

Run StartLog.com and then with the log file open, right click>Select All>Right Click> Copy and paste the copied text to a reply. Ignore the stubpaths.txt file.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rmbox/Reticulated/Toys.html


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

As it hapens I had a copy lying around... Here it is (long)

I'll "close" now, must work. I'll check again tomorow. Thank you for your help in trying to solve the problem.
sebastian




---------- StubPath.txt


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Sebastian, that was the stubpaths.txt file, the one I wanted you to ignore. We need the StartUp.log file. Open that in Notepad and follow the instructions to copy/paste.

And do give us a fresh run of the StartLog.com -- not an "old one" .


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

My mistake! Here it is the correct one, I hope.
sebastian

---------- C:\WINDOWS\desktop\StartUp.Log

Start-Ups checked at 08/07/2002 3:50:55.12 
__________________________________________________________________________ 
__________________________________________________________________________

StartUp Log for Windows 95/98 - Freeware by rmbox 
__________________________________________________________________________ 
__________________________________________________________________________

Comments:

This is a log of all the programs on your computer that 
are starting automatically every time you start Windows. 
Using this log can be a quick way to spot trojans.

StartUp Log (version 1.56) - Release Date 3/11/2002

__________________________________________________________________________ 
__________________________________________________________________________

StartUp Log Index

1. HKLM Run 
2. HKCU Run 
3. HKLM RunOnce 
4. HKCU RunOnce 
5. HKLM RunServices 
6. HKLM RunServicesOnce 
7. WIN.INI file 
8. SYSTEM.INI file 
9. AUTOEXEC.BAT file 
10. StartUp folder 
11. All Users StartUp 
12. Misc. StartUp Configurations

__________________________________________________________________________ 
__________________________________________________________________________

The following is a list of your current Start-Ups 
__________________________________________________________________________ 
__________________________________________________________________________

1. HKLM Run - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]
"internat.exe"="internat.exe"
"SystemTray"="SysTray.Exe"
"ScanRegistry"="C:\\WINDOWS\\scanregw.exe /autorun"
"TaskMonitor"="C:\\WINDOWS\\taskmon.exe"
"AVG_CC"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\GRISOFT\\AVG6\\avgcc32.exe /STARTUP"
"Outpost Firewall"="C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\AGNITUM\\OUTPOST FIREWALL 1.0\\outpost.exe /waitservice"
"FileScan"="C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\SYSTEM SAFE GOLD\\FileScan.exe"
"Lwinst Run Profiler"="C:\\Program Files\\Logitech\\WingMan Profiler\\Lwtest.exe /detect /quiet /launch \"C:\\Program Files\\Logitech\\WingMan Profiler\\Lwpevntm.exe\""

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

2. HKCU Run - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

3. HKLM RunOnce - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce]

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

4. HKCU RunOnce - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce]

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

5. HKLM RunServices - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices]
"Avgserv9.exe"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\GRISOFT\\AVG6\\Avgserv9.exe"
"Outpost Firewall"="C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\AGNITUM\\OUTPOST FIREWALL 1.0\\outpost.exe /service"

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

6. HKLM RunServicesOnce - Registry

[RegPath] 
"StartUp"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServicesOnce]

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

7. WIN.INI File - (c:\windows\win.ini)

Your win.ini run/load lines should look like run= and load= exclusively. 
There should be nothing to the right of the equal signs.

These are the run and load lines in your WIN.INI file

run=

load=

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

8. SYSTEM.INI File - (c:\windows\system.ini)

Your system.ini shell line should look like shell=Explorer.exe exclusively. 
You should only see Explorer.exe following the equal sign.

This is the shell line in your SYSTEM.INI file

shell=Explorer.exe

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

9. AUTOEXEC.BAT File - (c:\autoexec.bat)

(Some trojans have been known to start from this file)

These are your program startups and set paths in your autoexec.bat file

C:\WINDOWS\net initialize
ban /nc
ndisban
redirall
C:\WINDOWS\net start
arswait
z:login

****** PCI AUDIO DOS UTILS *******
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WaveInit /A220 /I5 /D1 /L388 /U330 /S /G2
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WAVETSR.COM
LH MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
mode con codepage prepare=((862) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\hebega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=862

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

10. StartUp Folder - (c:\windows\start menu\programs\startup)

Shortcuts to any program will automatically start when placed here.

These are the shortcuts located in your StartUp folder

C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\Rain.lnk
C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\Kontiki.lnk
C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\RZ DLL Backup.lnk
C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\TransText.lnk

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

11. All Users Folder - (c:\windows\all users\start menu\programs\startup)

Shortcuts to any program will automatically start when placed here.

These are the shortcuts located in your All Users StartUp folder

*(No start-ups found)*

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

12. Miscellaneous StartUp Configurations

-============================- 
Registry StartUp Directories 
-============================-

Should show the Start Menu StartUp and All Users StartUp directories

.....................................................................

[1] HKCU - Shell Folders

HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders

"Startup"="C:\\WINDOWS\\Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp"

.....................................................................

[2] HKCU - User Shell Folders

HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders

.....................................................................

[3] HKLM - Shell Folders

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\Shell Folders

"Common Startup"="C:\\WINDOWS\\All Users\\Start Menu\\Programs\\StartUp"

.....................................................................

[4] HKLM - User Shell Folders

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\User Shell Folders

.....................................................................

-=======================- 
Registry Shell Spawning 
-=======================-

Open Commands for Executable File Types

@="\"%1\" %*"
(.exe file - RegPath = HKCR\exefile\shell\open\command)

@="\"%1\" %*"
(.com file - RegPath = HKCR\comfile\shell\open\command)

@="\"%1\" /S"
(.scr file - RegPath = HKCR\scrfile\shell\open\command)

@="\"%1\" %*"
(.bat file - RegPath = HKCR\batfile\shell\open\command)

@="\"%1\" %*"
(.pif file - RegPath = HKCR\piffile\shell\open\command)

@="C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\SCRIPT SENTRY\\SCRIPTSENTRY.exe \"%1\" %*"
(.hta file - RegPath = HKCR\htafile\shell\open\command)

-=========================- 
HKLM RunOnceEx - Registry 
-=========================-

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnceEx]

-=========================- 
HKU (.Default) Run - Registry 
-=========================-

[HKEY_USERS\.Default\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run]

-==============================- 
HKU (.Default) RunOnce - Registry 
-==============================-

[HKEY_USERS\.Default\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce]

-================================- 
StubPaths - Registry (Partial Listing) 
-================================-

(Please see the StubPath.txt on your desktop for complete listing)

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed Components

"StubPath"="C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\IE4UINIT.EXE"
"StubPath"="C:\\WINDOWS\\msnmgsr1.exe"
"StubPath"=""
"StubPath"="C:\\WINDOWS\\COMMAND\\sulfnbk.exe /L"
"StubPath"="\"C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1\\setup50.exe\" /APP:OE /CALLER:IE50 /user /install"
"StubPath"="\"C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1\\setup50.exe\" /APP:WAB /CALLER:IE50 /user /install"

-=================- 
DOSSTART.BAT File - (c:\windows\dosstart.bat)
-=================-

REM ****** PCI AUDIO DOS UTILS *******
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WaveInit /A220 /I5 /D1 /L388 /U330 /M /S /G2 /S
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001

-=================- 
WININIT.BAK File - (c:\windows\wininit.bak) 
(name) (type) (size)(modified)(time) 
wininit bak 53 02/07/02 2:37
-=================-

[rename]
NUL=C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6\$AVGUPD$.BKP
-=====================- 
Screen Saver Settings (Possible system.ini start-up) 
-=====================-

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

- Supplemental Environment Information -

TMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND
COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM
windir=C:\WINDOWS

File - c:\windows\Wininit.bak 
File - c:\windows\deletefi.ini

========================================================================== 
__________________________________________________________________________

- End -


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Does this shutdown problem happen every time?
What I would do is boot up in safe mode (press and hold the ctrl key when starting up to access the Startup Menu, select Safe Mode).

Then run *msconfig* and remove the check for your autoexec.bat file (which seems to contain an old installation for networking drivers [Banyan Vines?] and protocols). What kind of connection do you have to the internet?

Then click on the Startup tab and remove all the checks for all but ScanRegistry and System Tray.

Shutdown, restart and shutdown again. If the second shutdown is normal in this "clean boot" configuration, begin re-enabling groups of files under the Startup tab, beginning with your antivirus and firewall programs to test them. Proceed through the others (you can do a few at a time) until the problem starts again. Using this method you should be able to isolate it.

If in fact, the problem continues even in a "clean boot" configuration and you have a Networking card installed -- you are going to have to troubleshoot that. It can be disabled through the Device Manager. If you have unnecessary protocols (and it appears you might), you should remove those through the Control Panel Networking applet.

For a standard 56k dial-up, for example, you need only tcp/ip, Dial-up Adapter and Windows logon enabled.

ps, you might want to do a quick test with just the autoexec.bat file disabled -- since you say you've never seen those Networking entries there before. You may have accidentally installed them if you made any recent changes to the protocols in your Networking applet.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hello RR!
Before I touch anything, the network card was installed by a technitian. I conect to the net using a LAN system over fibre optics. If I "disable" the autoexec.bat I won't have a conection to the Internet, will I?
I'll try to go to safe mode and trying to exit from there. Will post in a moment with results.
sebastian


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Just did it. It exits OK from safe mode. 
And to answer to your question, no, it doesn't do it all the time.
I experience 2 instances.
1.- It goes as far as the "windows is shuting down" splash screen. When this hapen I'll get the BS with the scan disk when starting the machine again.

2.- It goes through the "Windows is shuting down" screen and when it desapears I get the black screen with the blinking cursor. When I start the computer next, it will boot up normaly without any problem.
Makes sense to you?
sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I guess you are going to need those Network drivers then -- although I'm somewhat surprised that they are using the Autoexec.bat file and Banyon Vines drivers -- but this is really an area that I'm not familiar with. You may want to check back with them and verify whether that is supposed to be a part of the configuration.

The Networking installation is a very likely source of the shutdown problem -- and these can be difficult to resolve if it is -- often requring different networking cards or updated drivers.

I would try to eliminate the other possibilities first, and if it narrows down to the Network installation -- you should get back to them for advice. You may also want to try a post in the Networking Forum and see if anyone there has something similar.

This is probably the very "tedious" link that Davey had in mind:

http://www.aumha.org/a/shtdwnsez.htm

But try using msconfig to do some clean boot troubleshooting first of all (consistent with your still being able to connect to the Net)

In safe mode, none of your startup programs, network stuff or other 32bit drivers were loaded.

And to answer your last q, yes the conflict here is probably one involving Advanced Power Management; when you get to the "now safe to shutdown" screen -- Windows has completed all its tasks, but the BIOS has yet to initiate shutdown -- so there is a failure of communication there. At the "Windows is shutting down" screen -- Windows has not yet completed removing drivers.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Here goes.
I unchecked (msconfig/autoexec.bat)
ban/nc and
ndisban

I'm tempted to do the same with "answait" and "z:login", do you think it is safe to do so? what are they?
With the changes done so far I still can conect to the Internet and login to the Network. I still have the shut down problem...

sebastian


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Rog, just a quick thought here.....could the windows music and/or shutdown logo be causing the hang? I keep mine disabled among other things to avoid the hang, and don't want to put it back just to test the theory.......


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I think you can safely uncheck the others as well if the first two didn't affect anything. If that is the case, it looks like your tech may have inadvertantly installed some unnecessary protocols in the Network applet. Not being a Networking person myself, I can't tell you for sure what you need -- but I'd check with the service provider to see just exactly what they require and remove anything else.

However the problem may be due to the card itself and its drivers, rather than the Networking protocols.

Candy -- I rather doubt it, but if a shutdown sound is enabled, I would get rid of it too -- who needs it!

You could try disabling APM in the BIOS -- if that is done, you should expect to stop on the "it is now safe to shutdown" screen -- but you won't get a scandisk run on bootup. I would save changes like that for last though, as they befuddle some who are not well aquainted with BIOS features.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

well. I just desabled "answait" and "z:login" whatever they are, and as you can see I'm still able to log to the Internet. I also can login to the Network as before, but the problem persists.
Now of the checked boxes only remains "redirall". Is it also safe to uncheck it?
Tomorrow I'll contact my ISP and ask about what protocols I need, and what drivers to use for my Network card that by the way is recognized by Windows as a 
Realtek RTL8139/810X family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC

Do you have any more sugestions? I'm afraid to mess with the BIOS, but if you give me a step by step I'll brave it.

Thank you again.
sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I think it's safe to say nothing in Autoexec.bat is required and that those drivers were installed by mistake. 

Let's wait on the BIOS a bit and see if the Networking issues can get sorted out a little further. It would only be a "workaround" at best anyway.

You also need to rule out possibilities with the other startup programs under the Startup tab of msconfig. Firewalls and virus programs are common causes of shutdown problems as well.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, here is my Autoexec.bat after the changes. As you see I have only C:\windows\net initialize and c:\windows\net start.
My ISP claims that they are esential for my using the Network...go figure! They also told me that the drivers I disabled were installed by mistake and that I don't need them. As for any other information (protocols and such), they let me understand I don't need to know, it is not important and not related to any shut up problem I might experience using windows.
The worst part is that I can't force them to disclose anything because of a silly contract.
So here I am, up the proverbial creek and not a padle in sight.

Anyway, I really would apreciate any help you can give me.
cordially
sebastian


C:\WINDOWS\net initialize
rem TShoot: ban /nc
rem TShoot: ndisban
rem TShoot: redirall
C:\WINDOWS\net start
rem TShoot: arswait
rem TShoot: z:login

****** PCI AUDIO DOS UTILS *******
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WaveInit /A220 /I5 /D1 /L388 /U330 /S /G2
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WAVETSR.COM
LH MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
mode con codepage prepare=((862) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\hebega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=862


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Well, that's not very helpful of them; if those drivers were installed by mistake, who knows what else was too.

Anyway I would want to eliminate the other startups as possible causes before going further. Run msconfig and click on the Startup tab. Uncheck everything but ScanRegistry and SystemTray. You might want to boot up in safe mode to do this so you don't have a problem restarting.

Then reboot and test long enough to decide whether the problem is repeating. Don't open any email and stick to trusted sites when surfing with your antivirus disabled. If the shutdown problem doesn't occur in this configuration, reenable your antivirus and firewall first to test those. If it does, just recheck everything as the problem is elsewhere -- perhaps with the Network card itself.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, here is what I've done.
I used Startup Cop and I disabled: 

Avgserv9.exe Outpost firewall AVG_CC
Outpost firevall Kontiki (DM) RZDLL backup
transtext

I left enabled:
Internat.exe System tray Scan registry
Task monitor Lwinst run profiler (joystick)
Trid tray

No result, so I unabled everything back.

sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I would want to do a completely clean boot with everything there disable before going further -- especially the game controller, since I believe that's a USB device?

If no change after that, I would want to try disabling the Network Card itself. Of course you will have no internet connectivity if you do so, but it's the only way you are going to be able to test it. This has to be done through the Device Manager>Properties>Settings>"Disable in this Hardware Profile" option for the device.

You can also try disabling the Game Controller through the Device Manager itself, using the same method as for the Network Card.

The procedure is described further here (see step 6):

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q202633


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, none of the above.
I desabled the network card and the joystick. You were right it is a USB device but having had problems in the past, I use it with the normal -non USB- conection.

The problem persists...
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Pardon the interuption but I don't see an answer (follow thru) on Candy's suggestion of removing the wav file on close. If he has one then I agree with candy that it should be removed.

I have seen this exact problem on a non-networked puter. If working simple first is still the key then that would be easy to check.

Next would be a suggestion to see if the same thing happens in standard VGA mode since I had a vid driver problem one time that contributed to a problem starting Windows and closing Windows.

Again, pardon the interuption folks.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

You are welcome Griffinspc.
No waw sound on closing windows. Disabled a long time ago.
As for the vid card, what do you want me to check?
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Do you know how to change the video adapter to standard VGA and choose something simple like 800 x 600 256 colors?


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

No, but I asume it is the basic setting if I don't use the grafic card. By the way it is a Nvidia Gforce 2 100/200 32MB.
Do I change the drivers?
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Right click desktop / Properties / Settings / Advanced / Adapter / Change / Next / Display a list of all the drivers in a specific location / Next (will run a search) / Show all hardware / at the top (Standard dispaly types) / Next

Make sure you remember what adapter and settings you had so you can restore things to the way they were previously.

It's a possible driver problem but I'd see if standard VGA works before I added or changed any drivers / software since you don't want to make the problem harder to diagnose.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Got you. What I do next?
I'll have to close now (work again  ) but I'll read your posting and I'll answer tomorrow with results. 
By the way, I use the 22:80 drivers for the card.
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Well next, I'd just run your machine in Standard VGA for awhile and boot up / shutdown enough to satisfy you that the problem is either still there or not present.

You want to run with all your usual apps, network settings, etc., so you can be sure that the video is the problem.

Don't get your hopes up to high. As Rog (I think it was Rog) said earlier, startup and shutdown problems can be a real pain.

If it disappears then I'd get the latest drivers for your vid card, uninstall the old and reinstall the card using the new drivers.

Good luck.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

It's not the vid. drivers. I did as you sugested and I'm still in the same place. The only extrange thing was that when I rebooted, after changen the drivers, the machine hung at the -of all things- "it is now safe...." I presed reset and rebooted normaly. After this I shut off and on several times and each time I got to the black screen with the cursor.
I changed back to my Nvidia drivers, and here I am again still looking for that paddle 
Do you think we will ever find the problem?
sebastian


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, I don't know what it was. First my thread desappear, my latest answer is gone....here it is again:

I did as you adviced. The problem remains. The only strange thing was that when restarting after changing the drivers, the computer went to the (why?) "it is now safe..." screen. But after rebooting everything went back to "normal". So, after several times of shutting off and restarting to check it, I went back to my Nvidia drivers.
What do I check now? Any more ideas?
sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Did you test shutdown more than one time after disabling the Network card? If not the drivers would have still been loaded on the first shutdown.

You can also try disabling Windows APM as described in the MS troubleshooting link (step 7). Using step-by-step confirmation to bypass certain vxd's is step 8.

And although we have been going at this kind of piece-meal -- you might want to use msconfig to disable, all in one fell swoop, autoexec.bat, config.sys, win.ini, system.ini and the startup group. Shutdown and restart more than once in that absolute min config, then depending on the response, just reenable all or do it group by group.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

pons,
Hi. I noticed that yesterday but then decided it was my misreading of this long thread. You say the computer hangs on the* It is now safe to trun off the computer screen You also said you have the disable fast shutdown option.*

That would indicate that you do not have the Win98 SE Shutdown patch installed.

Please do this. Go to start>run and type

qfecheck press enter

This will bring up a screen with some updates listed.
Expand the Win98 SE branch and look to see if
Q239887 is listed. That's the shutdown supplement. Her's the download link for it. 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/Win98SE/Default.asp


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## dekanworld (Jul 10, 2002)

I have had this problem ina couple of situations. the reason I have found to be is that something is hanging on exit. the solution with msconfig is always a good choice. this gives you control of what is starting up. next I found that inabling / or disbling the power management in the bios has an effect.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, first of all RR. I did shutt the computer on aqnd off several times to make sure. 
Mosaic1, did as you said and found that I indeed have the patch installed, but on clicking the + sign I got this:
MSCONFIG.EXE 4.10.0.2223
PCI.VXD 4.10.0.2222 invalid
APMBATT.SYS 4.10.0.2223
VPOWERD.VXD 4.10.0.2222 invalid

The legend says that finding "not found or invalid" may affect or not the performance of the computer or programs...so here it is, or not?

And dekanworld, my power management settings are as follow:

Power schemes always on
System standby never
turn off monitor never
turn off hard disks never
sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

It sounds like you had the patch, but it is not installed correctly.

Attaching mine as a screenshot.

I would like to have ROG's opinion on this first. Please wait for him before doing anything.

A reinstall of the Shutdown Supplement might be in order here. That's the conclusion I draw.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

That's a real sharp observation Mo. I didn't think much further about it when Pons said the patch was installed, but really the option in Msconfig > advanced should normally be grayed out then as I understand things.

The supplement page gives some instructions for uninstalling the patch



> How to uninstall
> 
> You should save and close all open documents and close all programs before attempting to uninstall this update. Then click on Start/Find/Files or Folders and search for 239887UN.INF. Once this file is displayed, right-click on the file and choose Install. You will need to have your original Windows 98 Second Edition CD available to uninstall this update.


http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/Win98SE/Default.asp

I think it would be a good idea to do that before trying a reinstall.

It looks like that version of Vpowerd.vxd (and pci.vxd) is associated with the orginal install and not the update.

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cach...VPOWERD.VXD+site:microsoft.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Thanks, Rog. I wanted your opinion. You're right. An uninstall and then a clean reinstall of the Supplement is best.

The disable fast shutdown in Msconfig is not there at all after the patch is applied.

Also, there is a registry key to check. Sometimes the Supplement may not disable fast shutdown from what I've read. 
Here's the key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Shutdown 

Right-click on the FastReboot entry, choose modify and type in the number 0 to disable fast shutdown. 

This is for the future. In the event the patch is OK and still a problem persists. Having a look here can't hurt.

Mo


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, I uninstalled (I found 2 instances of the patch) the patches, reboot to be on the safer side, installed anew the patch and it did correct the "invalid" entries.

I went then to regedit to check, and I found in:
KHKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Shutdown. The fasts hutdown shows "0" already. 

Reading one of the articles that Mosaic1 sent me, I think that the entry VPOWERD.VXD poses problems. Could it be that the problem? If so, how I get rid of it without trashing the machine?

sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Which articles were those? Here's the thing. You showed that you had the wrong version of two of the vxd's included in the patch. After removing and reinstalling the Shutdown Supplement it now shows all four as being correct?

If that's the case, then wait and see if the problem has been corrected.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, first of all Mosaic1, here is the article 
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cach...VPOWERD.VXD+site:microsoft.com&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and it refers to the powerd.vxd. I understand from it that it shouldn't be there?

And yes, the four entries show up corrected. Nevertheless I still experience problems....
sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Thank you. Rog linked that. No. Actually that says that Powerd.vxd was updated after the supplement originally came out. Therefore, those who had applied the supplement before 11/99 
Needed to apply it again to include Powerd.vxd

It should be there.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Sebastion,
I really wish that had helped. To review, could you describe exactly what happens now? Also, I guess going back to where you left off before the shutdown supplement suggestion is the way to go. Page 2. Here's the quote from Rog's last post there:


> You can also try disabling Windows APM as described in the MS troubleshooting link (step 7). Using step-by-step confirmation to bypass certain vxd's is step 8.
> 
> And although we have been going at this kind of piece-meal -- you might want to use msconfig to disable, all in one fell swoop, autoexec.bat, config.sys, win.ini, system.ini and the startup group. Shutdown and restart more than once in that absolute min config, then depending on the response, just reenable all or do it group by group.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi I used msconfig to desable config.sys and winini, autoexec.bat is grayed out.
Still the same problem which is:

When shutting out I get to "Windows is shutting down" in which case when I restart my comp again, I get the scanDisk screen. 

Or it goes past this an onto a black screen with a blinking cursor on the uper left hand corner of the monitor. When I restart the machine again, it boots normaly.

I don't get in any case the "it is now safe to..." screen.

I'll close for now. Tomorrow I'll check again.
Thank you all
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Back again. I've been trying to find anything that we haven't covered and without re-reading it all I think this may be of some value. This is an excerpt and edited:
_________________________________
Plug and Play BIOS 
In some cases, the BIOS and Windows may not be communicating properly with the computer hardware during the shutdown process. You can configure Windows 98 Second Edition to ignore the presence of a Plug and Play BIOS and communicate directly with the hardware.

NOTE : Use this method for testing purposes only. Leaving the Plug and Play BIOS disabled may cause some hardware to stop working.

To configure Windows not to use the Plug and Play BIOS: 
Restart your computer, and press and hold CTRL until you see the Windows 98 Startup menu.

Choose Command Prompt Only .

Type the following line at the command prompt:

cd \windows\system 
Rename the Bios.vxd file to Bios.old.

Restart your computer.

After the computer restarts, attempt to shut down Windows.

If the computer shuts down correctly, the system BIOS is likely to be contributing to the shutdown problems. Contact the motherboard or BIOS manufacturer for a possible update. 
____________________________________

*You might want to let Rog look at this first* but it seems from my research which was pretty extensive that it may help isolate your problem.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Thank you griffinspc for your answer, but I think something is missing from your instructions. After "cd\windows\system" must follow something. Usually it would be enter, and on the line that ends with > something or other.
And how safe is it to change this type of extension? Won't windows hang when rebooting?
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> After "cd\windows\system" must follow something. Usually it would be enter,


 That's correct. I guess I should have included it. Sorry.

That just takes you to the Windows \ System folder but in DOS mode. From what you have done previously I jumped to a conclusion that you knew how to do this, sorry again.

Windows may hang, it's a chance but not dangerous. If you can't get it to boot all the way through you just go back and reverse this at the same prompt:


> Rename the Bios.vxd file to Bios.old


Also tapping F8 continuesly on boot will get you to the list of start options as will Ctrl one of which is start in "Command Prompt Only". That takes you to C:> where you type: *cd\windows\system* and hit enter.

Machines differ on getting to the Windows 98 Startup menu or boot menu.

Is that better?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

After reading this I decided to check my Hard Drive for bios.vxd. It is not there. I went into the registry to see if it is on the vmm32.vxd list. It isn't.

It is in my cabs. I have an HP. At any rate, I would do a search for it to see if it exists. And if so, where. (One article located it in system\vmm32) If not, you may not need it. I did further research and only found Windows 95 references. However, in the groups I read, it said you would only be able to boot to safe mode if this file was needed and not found.

Also, if you do have the file, you might try replacing it in the event that it is corrupt. 

Pete,
Do you have bios.vxd on your hard drive?
To check if it's a part of vmm32.vxd (unlikely) go here:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\VMM32Files

Look at the list on the right.


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Thanks for the save Mo. Microsoft released it June 1999 (as near as I can tell) for Win98 and no I don't have it installed either but in the cabs not the reg entry you directed.

This just proves that I get too wrapped up in finding a solution with my searches to follow through on possible problems. From what I can gather it *MAY* be on pons machine and may not.

I'd check for it pons if it's there try it as it may be corrupt. In fact maybe it could be replaced using System File Checker (SFC) but after Mo's save we may better hold off on this.

What ya think MO?????


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Yes, griffinpsc, I understood you OK. I know it takes me to the directory of windows in DOS. My question was what do you want me to input at the 
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM> 
I input dir/p and I went through the list. I didn't find it. I did however find VMM32 mentioned by Mosaic1.

Mosaic1, I used regedit and followed your instructions, but I found no trace of the file. The closest match I found was 
BIOSXLAT.VXD.....not good

And why would close OK in safe mode, and give trouble in normal mode? We stablished that it is not the drivers, didn't we? What else could cause it?
sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Pete,

I've been doing a little more reading. Mobos are not my area. This file has to do with plug and play capability. In Groups I read that people needed it after installing certain MOBOs. All win95. Is it that this file provided backwards support for older machines after an upgrade to Win98?

I don't know. But it's a guess. What do you think? 

I suppose it depends on how old the computer in question is. 

The way you get wrapped up is great. You find a lot of solutions. 

Mo


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Thanks Mo, I feel better but this is strange. If you go here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q238096

and look about half way down you'll see "Plug & Pray BIOS" which leads directly to part of my excerpt. I assumed (boy is that someting I should have learned not to do long ago) that being it's a Microsoft Knowledge base for Win98 shutdoewn problems article it was accurate.

After that I did other research and found that it specifically is tied to Intel then I posted it without checking my own machine which I generally do.

Geeezzzz.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Griffin, I did check an I don't have Plug&Play Bios. I checked both with view devices by type, and view devices by connection.

It doesn't mean I don't have it, only that it doesn't show, I think.
sebastian


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

May I jump back in here and make an observation. If I remember correctly, the computer will shut down nicely in safemode.....

In normal mode it hangs......what about that TSR that is loading in the autoexec.bat file?

BTW, the plug and play that is being referred to must be accessed from your bios setup....when the computer is restarting....not from the device manager.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

AcaCandy I stand corrected on the BIOS.

As for the TSR it is a good bet, but I don't have a clue how to check it.
sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Sebastion,
You do not have bios.vxd and you do not have the Plug and Play Bios entry in System devices. That is not a problem. It means this does not apply to your machine. I don't have those and neither does griffinspc.

Sometimes Microsoft is not totally clear. This suggestion they made doesn't apply to all computers. 

I really do think that you need to go back to the shutdown link ad go step by step to see of anything listed does apply to you.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I would rename the autoexec.bat to autoexec.old and then restart the computer and try the shutdown again.....when you start in safe mode, the autoexec.bat and config.sys files do not load. If you still have the shutdown problem, you can always rename it back to autoexec.bat

BTW, I see the plug and play that is being referred to in the device manager......but I guess I would wonder if it's not set to enabled in the bios setup, it wouldn't show there either......MO, do you know anything about that thought? I'd try it on mine right now, but I'm in the middle of a project and don't want to restart the computer.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

I don't know. I have an HP. I can go into the BIOS and look. However, I can also tell you that it is not like a lot of other BIOS. 
Here's the quote from:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q23809


> To configure Windows not to use the Plug and Play BIOS:
> Restart your computer, and press and hold CTRL until you see the Windows 98 Startup menu.
> 
> Choose Command Prompt Only .
> ...


 None of this applies to my computer. I don't have bios.vxd or the device manager entry.

I also agree that he needs to go back and follow all the steps to troubleshoot boot.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Here's what my Hp BIOS says
Plug and Play OS Yes

Would this indicate that the Plug and play BIOS is not activated and the OS is doing the job. And I do not have the Device Manager entry. EDIT: Answer Yes. Windows is managing my plug and play. I went back in and re read it. 

Therefore, if Sebastion has the same, wouldn't that rule out this as a possible cause?


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

Sebastion, I skimmed all the way back but never saw any references to what you are running for a machine.

Maybe we all got to far out in front here (me in particular). Would you post the type of machine (Name and model or mom & pop built) the specs; processor, RAM, OS version. major software installed such as anti-virus, etc.

Thanks


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, first of all I changed autoexec.bat to old but the problem persists. I changed back to .bat.

My specs:
My machine is a build one. No brand name.
Windows 98SE (with patch aplied)
CPU authentic AMD-K6 3D processor 500 MHz.
128 RAM
20 GB HD
IE 5.5
AVG antivirus
Outpost firewall
Rain (cooling program)
Kontiki download manager
trident sound card
Nvidia GeForce2 MX 100/200
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for going step by step following the M$ article, we already have done it except for the TSR that I don't know how to check.

Frankly I'm begining to think on giving up. You guys have been wonderful and have expent much time trying to help me, but everything must have a limit ,so if you feel like giving up I'll understand and many thanks for time and thought expent on my behalf.
Cordially
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

I for one hate to give up since we will solve it. You got some excellent folks here, Rog, Mo, Candy, et al.

I have 2 things. One, way back when you said you reinstalled Windows. Probably an over write. Is that correct ? It did nothing, right ?

2nd. Would you download this little tool, it's called EndItAll2.

It's simple to setup and when you open it you will be able to either stop all your apps from running or kill them completely. I find it far better than just Ctrl Alt Del and closing things.

Install it and kill everything, then shutdown and tell us what happens. You can get End It All free here. It's small.

http://home.ptd.net/~don5408/toolbox/enditall/

I have a suspect and this will help narrow it down. Don't even bother with one at a ime right now, kill everything and see what happens.

Let us know.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

If nothing else works. 
I would first rename logow.sys to logow.old. Logow.sys is the Windows is now shutting down screen.

Second, I think I saw something about hard drive problems causing hangs. You may want to do a thorough scandisk. It will take a while to perform. See if there are any errors on the drive.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, d/l Enditall used it and I still get to the black screen with blinking cursor. Thank you anyway.

And Mosaic1, I'll give it a shot to your sugestion and I'll report back tomorrow.
Thank you again
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

While waiting I went to the home page forum for your outpost firewall. It seems to have an awful lot of problems reported. Thatin itself isn't bad since that's why forums exist but i did come across this:


> I am running windows 98se with outpost firewall vers. 1.0.1511.1038 its the free version and if I can get it working correctly then I will buy it. However, I installed the free version and found that my o/s freezes when during the shutdown process. I reviewed the support forum and even sent an email reguarding my problem. I recieved a reply that told me to refer to this page http://www.agnitum.com/forum/showth...hp?threadid=978 so I downloaded the bug report exe as directed from the sight and that also doesnt work. I am unable to shutdown and restart my pc with out doing it manually. Please help.


I checked the page listed and it isn't much help but does have a link to a add on patch for the firewall called debug.

I would still like you to use End It All and let us know the results. Also Mo's Logow.sys idea is a good one as well as the thorough scandisk. I'd only add to do it in DOS mode.

The firewall and Rain (CPU cooler) are my bets if it's software related. End it all should isolate that possibility.


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## ramstein (Nov 24, 2001)

Microsoft are aware of this shutdown problem. 'They' have made two attempts at offering plebs a 'patch' or in plain english 'elastoplast fix' for this known problem. It confounds all types of users, from top IT to plebs..

Recently, my personal IT guru gave me a floppy with the latest 'shutdown fix' and it works!

This Microsoft 'bad programming phenomenom' has been resolved on my computer at last. And it shuts down quickly now!

Email me at [email protected] for a zip


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

What is the nature of this shutdown Patch? Sounds interesting. Do you have any details please?


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, I already used EndItall to no effect.

I went to the Agnitum link but I couldn't find the debug file.

I did a scandisk from DOS. Complete with surfaceScan. It didn't find anything wrong.

I'd be interested on the Patch that Ramstain mentione, but I'd have to know more about it. Can you send it to me? My addy is in the forum.

Thank you
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

You might check the version number of your Outpost Firewall. The latest "Free" version if that's what you're running is 1.0.1817 which if I read all the hype correctly includes the bug fix.

(There was a lot of text and i didn't read it all since it all headed to convincing you to purchase) The free download is:

http://www.agnitum.com/download/outpostfree.html

I have to ask one question, when you used EndItAll2, did you specify to *Kill* all apps or close all apps. Makes a diffierence.

If you killed everything and shutdown with the same problem I have to conclude this is hardware or maybe a registry problem though the registry is not my specialty as it is with Mo.

Hopefully ramstein's patch is the cure and I'd sure like to know more about it too. How bout it ramstein, is this a certified MS patch, a third party product a reg hack ?????


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

OK Griffinspc, That is the version I have so I don't need a patch. To tell you the throuth, I always was a bit uneasy about the way that Outpost works. Mind you, I'm not complaining but the reason why I use it is because AZ screw my machine big time. I remember issues with it as far as 3 months ago. Is it safe to use it now?....
And EndditAll "kills" everything in my machine except for Explorer, systray and Enditall itself. As I reported previously, the problem prsisted after killing all aplications.
I concurr by now that the problem MUST be a registry one (I hope) and not a hardware mess.

Well, in my culture it is Shabbath and I'm going to close now.
As we say here, have a peaceful shabbath.
sebastian


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## griffinspc (Nov 16, 2001)

> _Originally posted by pons:_
> *OK Griffinspc, That is the version I have so I don't need a patch. To tell you the throuth, I always was a bit uneasy about the way that Outpost works. Mind you, I'm not complaining but the reason why I use it is because AZ screw my machine big time. I remember issues with it as far as 3 months ago. Is it safe to use it now?....*


 If you're speaking of ZA (AZ?) being safe, me and most everyone here, runs it A-OK. I use it on 2 completely different machines with all sorts of different apps and have no problems.

If you're speaking of Outpost I have to say that their forum page is one of the longest problem lists I've ever seen for a single product. Does that make it bad, who knows, but there sure seems to be a lot of traffic and many I read never got resolved. I noticed one very long one in particular by someone who obviously was an expert in it's use, and a high rate of PC tech skill, and he went on and on about how to get it off your system. Seems it can be stubborn.



> I concurr by now that the problem MUST be a registry one (I hope) and not a hardware mess.


I think hardware or registry but wait for Mo's return and maybe she has a suggestion on either eliminating it as a possiblity or repairing the registry. I know no one better.

Peace to you, sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Sebastian,
I know we won't see you until after Sundown Saturday, Israel time. I hope you had a Safe Sabbath. 

Rog did mention APM (Advanced Power Management) setting in the BIOS. Have you gone in to have a look at that setting? 

griffinspc,
Thanks. I believe if it were a registry problem, startup would be a problem. A message about a corrupt registry or that the registry had been replaced.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi, first things first:

Ramstain, the patch you sent me is the M$ Q239887 Patch that I'd already installed. Thank you anyway.

Mosaic1, here is my 
Power Management Setup
ACP--------------------------------enabled
Power management------------user define
PM comtrol by APM--------------yes
video off method----------------V/H sync+blank
video off option------------------susp, standby------>off

PM Monitor
Doze mode------------------------desable
standby mode--------------------desable
suspend mode--------------------desable
HDD powerdown-----------------desable

PM Evnts
primary HDD----------------------desable
floppy------------------------------desable
com ports-------------------------desable
keyboard--------------------------enable
LPT ports--------------------------desable

External switch
Power button mode------------instand off
wake on LAN use---------------enable
modem use IRQ-----------------3
_________________________________________

Is there anything out of order?
sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Your BIOS is very different from mine. At a glance I don't see anything. However, let me see what Rog might have to say. This is not my area of expertise and I could easily be mistaken.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I would mark the ACP - disabled, and if the one marked user defined can be set to disabled, I would change that.....restart the computer and see what happens....this stuff can always be changed back. Nothing is going to blow up by changing it.......


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

PM controlled by APM is the one I was referring to. I believe if you set this to NO your shutdown will stop on the "it is now safe to turnoff..." screen. At that point you have to press and hold the Tower Power button down for more than 5 seconds to shut down. But you shouldn't get a scandisk on restart. I think you will also see a red x by the APM entry in the Device Manager when you do this, and there will be no "standby" on the shutdown dialog.

If you get that far without any hangs on the "Windows is Shutting Down" screen, then I think that confirms it is a power management issue.

The Microsoft Article also gave a method for disabling Power management polling within Windows, did you try that first?

user defined, by the way, is what is used when you set power management options there that are different from the default setup. I have mine that way so that I could disable the hard drive disk spin down


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## jackhough (Jul 14, 2002)

I've had similar issues with Win98SE. Do you have the RealOne player from RealNetworks? I think that's what is causing my problems. It regenerates a line in the registry no matter what I do, and puts something in the startup items. Then Win98SE doesn't shutdown properly.

I'm no tech guy, but it's the thing these guys are talking about:
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/ntbugtraq/2002-q2/0081.html


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hello everybody. I think we fix it! Here is what I did:

I went to Bios setup and set ACPI and PM to desable. It completely fooled the machine! 
On boot up it reinstalled all devices, controlers, IRQ...you name it and started to hang on Windows Start.
Went back, enabled again those 2 things but the hangs and freezes continued. Then I noticed that I couldn't have more than 2 windows active at the same time (that was causing the freezes). All this things brought me to remember a problem that I once had with the same simptoms, and that was solved by downloading and installing a patch for my AGP controler (ALIAGP)...
Soooo I again desabled ACPI and PM, rebooted, went into safe mode and from there installed the patch, and now it shutts off OK

Questions
Was it always the AGP controler acting up?
Why did the controller "go bad"?
Why would desabling ACPI and PM send the machine into a spin?
Do I need ACPI desabled, and what does it do?

Again thank you very much for your valuable help, I'll mark it as solved (tentatively), and if somebody can come with an answer to my questions I'll be even more happy.

Cordially
sebastian
---------------------------------------------------
That is what I wrote in high hopes....well, it doesn't work anymore. It did for 3 times and I'm back to "normal", only that this time it stops at the "windows is..." with scandisk on reboot.
I enabled ACPI and it stops at the black screen with cursor, but without scandisck at bootup.

It has been mentioned further up on the thread that my firewall could be at fault (outpost), and that uninstalling is difficult but I'm willing to try ZA again. I d/l ver. 2601. If my firewall is "it", I'll give ZA another chance.

 sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Is APM still disabled? What you are now reporting would be similar to what I would expect with APM disabled but ACPI enabled.

Another area of investigation would be relating to any DOS emulation components that might be loaded by the sound card. Creative's Sblive stuff has often been guilty of causing shutdown problems. If you look in the Device Manager under Sound, Video and Game controllers and see an "Emulation" component, try disabling that.


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Hi RR, aparently I didn't understand well.
I have ACPI enabled (because of freezes, I thought), and APM desabled for the same reason.
Do you want me to reverse it?.

And I don't have SBLive. I have a trident card, and those are the items I find under sound video and game controlers:

Logitech gaming devices -my joystick
PCI64-Q3D direct input driver
PCI64-Q3D Legacy audio
PCI64-Q3D PCI audio

I don't use or have installed any REAL products.
I don't have any Emulation components. I asume you reffer to ROM emulators....anyway, a search for them turned up nothing.

sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Yes I would try re-enabling it now just for a test. If you get the previous condition causing scandisk to run you can go back and disable it. However it makes it harder to troubleshoot with it disabled. My suggestion was meant primarily as a workaround and to determine if APM was a factor in in the freezes. Apparently it is or was.

As for the Sound drivers, I would try disabling the "Legacy" component, I believe that is the equivalent of the "emulation" drivers.

Also there is another shutdown patch that it wouldn't hurt to apply. It introduces a 2 second delay in the shutdown process and if the problems are related to timing errors preventing the writing of cache data, this might correct it.

http://www.microsoft.com/Windows98/downloads/contents/WUCritical/q273017/Default.asp


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

OK, I reversed it and it didn't do anything, I applied the new patch ant it started working.
I disabled Legacy and I got a blue screen with the message: 

"a fatal exception ocurred at 0028:C0054D3B in VXD VDMAD (01)+000003BF. The current aplication wil be...."

I enabled Legacy and now everything works. I've closed and opened the system 5 times and still works so, I'll keep at it and report tomorrow one way or another. In the meanwhile, is there anything else you thing I should be trying?

Thanks again
sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Knock on wood


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

Still knokin' as I type.

Problem solved!!!!! The machine works as it was suposed to work. Now, if I could only find out what threw it out of whack....

Thank you guys, you're the best of the best!

sebastian


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

That's so great. Rog, you're a genius.

Sebastian,

You aren't overclocked are you? I don't remember seeing your CPU speed. Trying to figure out what changed isn't always easy. 


Mo


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## pons (Nov 27, 2001)

No Mosaic1, I don't dare to overclock as I live in a very hot place (middle of the desert in fact), that is why I use the Rain cooling program. My CPU speed is 500MHz. I thought I posted it somewhere....

Thank you for younr help and patience
sebastian


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Take enough shots and your bound to hit something 

I'm going to knock on wood as I mark this resolved 

(oops, I see AcaCandy just did it for us!)


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Sebastian,
You did post it. It's hard to keep track in a long thread. 

Some people would overclock no matter! Glad you are sensible.

The longer shutdown time did it for you. Who knows why this started. 

If you get the chance, you might download the Hard Drive tools from the manufacturer of the drive. Run them and be sure there are no hard drive issues. It can't hurt. Other than that, I don't know.


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