# Help with Win 98!!!!



## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

I deleted windows 98 and when I went to re-install it, says that files need to be deleted from host drive. I am wondering how in the heck do I get into the host drive, because there is no windows on my computer. Thanks for any help!!!!


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## Cowboy622 (Oct 4, 2001)

Does it say which files need to be deleted?

Do you have a win 98 boot disk (start-up disk). I would place the Win 98 start-up disk in the A: drive and start the computer. Select "with CD Rom support" when prompted. After the basic drivers have been loaded, you will be at the A:> prompt. Take the Start-up disk out, put the Win 98 CD in the CD rom and turn the computer off and then turn it back on. Win 98 should start loading. If it doesn't and you get to the C: prompt, type D:> (or what ever your CD ROM is) enter then at the D:> prompt type setup.exe and hit enter. This should start the installation process.

*WELCOME TO TSG*


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Sorry I guess I needed to be more specific. I start installing windows 98 and so far into the process it comes up and says not enough disk space on host drive. Then says need to delete files. Just can't figure out how to get to the host drive. Thanks!!


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## Cowboy622 (Oct 4, 2001)

What I would do is look at the drive you are installing Win 98 on. I'm assuming it is your C: drive or C: partition. So I would start the computer and get to a command prompt. If you cannot get to the C:> prompt, put your Win 98 startup disk in and after it has run and you are at the A:> type C: and hit enter. At the C:> type dir /p and you should get a list of what is on your hard drive (or C: partition) and the size if each item. (the /p makes the list show one page at a time) You can then type del and each item you want to delete.


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## brushmaster1 (Jun 15, 2002)

It sounds like you are trying to install Windows on a compressed drive. You will need to (at the least) uncompress the drive, or (better) format the drive before installing Windows.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi elwiley,

I think the 'Host Drive' referred to here is the drive
holding the Windows installation.
In most cases there is only one Hard Drive unit, and 
that would be the one they mean.
If you want to install a fresh clean copy of W98se
then a format would be the way to go.

The black screen with white words is an Operating
System at a sort of background level, its called DOS.

You will need a bootdisk to work with this, unless
you are comfortable using DOS.

Using a W98se Bootdisk floppy is straightforward and
the instructions should present themselves to you
as you go along.

There are plenty of sites where you can D/load one.

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok so I tried to format the drive and it says I need to unmount the compressed drives on that drive. Have no clue as what to do! Anyone know????


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

The PC is arranged so as it wont wipe out compressed stuff
till you have had a look.

I am assuming that you dont want to keep anything on it?

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

No I don't want to keep anything on it!!! Thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Are you using a floppy disk
to tell it to format?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

I tried to format on drive A, is there another way to format it?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Sometimes people try to format the hard drive
using the hard drive.

So i take it you have a W98se bootdisk?

And you are in A drive, using it, and it wont format?

So i'll have to have a little think about how to
de-compress using dos?

I assume youre working in dos on the problem PC?

Do you have the W98se KEY code?
I dont recall if you need an OEM number as well.

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Sorry John but dont' know what the Key code is. I do have a W98se bootdisk. And yes working in DOS. Thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

We'll worry about the key later.

I'm going to ask you to do a bit of DOS on it ok?
Could you put this at the C:\> prompt:
*DELTREE c:\*.** then press enter.
note the gap after deltree,
the space is needed in DOS.

I havent used this command myself,
so i would like to know what happens.

Does it ask for Yes/No .... ?
Or anything like that?

I think that should wipe your HD of anything,
then you should be able to format from the 
disk that you have.

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok John I am going to try that, and will get back with you in a little bit. We are trying to fix my mother's old computer to give to my niece, so I will have to get back online later and let you know how it goes. Thanks so much!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

If its old enough to use compression,
maybe you should post the details,
it may not be suitable for W98se.

To be much good speed-wise it wants
to be at least 100 megacycles, 
preferably more.

It wont install unless it has 24 megs
of RAM minimum. There are workarounds
but i dont know what they are.

I would expect at least 300 megabytes
hard drive, preferably more.

Sometimes older systems are better
using W95b its less demanding on
the system, and most things run pretty
much the same.

*************************

I have just got your email.
That command came back with
'Bad command or filename'

Have to think now.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Maybe your PC doesnt have deltree on it.
Would you mind trying:
*DELTREE /Y C:\temp*

It should ask for confirmation.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

that last command has a gap after deltree,
and after Y
ok


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I am also wondering how well your previous format went.
Could you try:
*dir *.cab /s*
at the command prompt on the problem PC.
Theres a gap after dir, and after cab, ok.

If this returns a bunch of cab files
then this may be all you need to re-install.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

got to go to bed now.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hello.

Did you find any cabs?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
The cabs is what we call the cabinet files.
They are the setup, from scratch, of the windows.

W98 and W98se put the cab files onto the hard drive
when the installation is done.

W95 doesnt necessarily do that.
Generally you have to put them on yourself in W95.

If the cabfiles are on your problem PC, then you
can run setup from there. That would save you a
lot of trouble.

You checked for the Windows folder, that was there.
But i would like you to check again for the cabs, OK ?

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok after I typed dir *cab /s

volume in drive c has no label
volume seriel number is ..........

directory of c:\

file not found

Clueless????


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Could you get to the C:\> prompt
and put 'cd windows' please.

*C:\>cd windows*

that should then look like this,

*C:\WINDOWS>*

i'll wait to hear back, ok


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

it tells me invalid directory


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Interesting.
Thats not what it said before is it.
Could you put 'dir' at the C: prompt please,
that should tell us if there is anything on the HD.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Now when i only put DIR at the C prompt it brings up all these files and directories. At the bottom it says 14 files and 9 dir


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok now my mom typed in:

dir/a/s

and it showed all these files, 591 files and 208 dir

Does that mean anything?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK. last check, then we move on to 98.

Put dir/o/p and they should come up 
in alphabetical order.

look for windows.

ok


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok the only thing i find when i do that is:

config win


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I take it theres no sign of windows?

ok. turn off PC,
put bootdisk into floppy drive,
turn on PC.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

one of the options that come up should be
format HD with the /s option.

Go for that one,
ok ?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

this is the only thing that comes up

Start computer with cd rom support
Start computer without cd rom support


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

sorry, got a few internet probs at this end.

Choose with CD.

ok.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok so we did the cd support and then typed in setup, then it did a microsoft scandisk. Comes up not enough free coventional memory to check drivespace drive.

You may need to remark (REM) some device drivers from your config.sys file. Or in your config. sys, you may need to load the EMM386.EXE driver to load your other device drivers into Upper Memory Blocks usuing DEVICEHIGH=statements

That's everything it says!

Hope your not having too much problems on your end.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
top right by 'edit'
theres a post number.

Have a look at 16 of this thread.

How much RAM have you there?

Can you now get a DIR on the 
CD unit, E drive or D drive i think.

Dont put any more instructions just yet, ok


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

the dir of the CD unit
should look something like this,


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## rugrat (Dec 17, 2001)

Just my 2 cents, Have you tried to fdisk and format the drive? If not, you may want to try that prior to install. Be warned, all current information on the drive will be lost. A good walk through is here

http://www.computerhope.com/sfdisk1.htm

Good Luck


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok it says that Volume in drive E is WIN 98 and looks like what you just put in your last response.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi rugrat,

good to see you.
glad someones keeping an eye on whats going on.

Format has been tried.
and deltree the c drive.

I dont know how much ram this has.
Its old.
It seems to have some compressed files.

Im hoping that the CD unit is now accessible.

EWILEY

Wonderful, dont do anything else just yet


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ewiley,
hang on a bit.

Rugrat,
it seems the 98 bootdisk has been
at least partly successful here.

the extra drive has been created.

i was thinking of copying cabs to HD,
but now maybe it will take a standard type install???

comments please


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Just a quick question. The E drive shows it has over 3000 files on there. Why so damn many????


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ewiley,
thats ok.
it supposed to have a lot of files.
so long as the folder list looks like that picture,
thats ok.

Does it have a folder called W98 ?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Yes it says WIN98 (DIR)


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

fine.
dont run anything yet.
Could you check the letter of your HD
C, or D,

need to know


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

it is C


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

fine.

do a dir of your HD and make a note
of those remaining 9 folders.

Then we shall make a folder
for W98


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok wrote them all down!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

stay in that drive for the moment,
i thought it would be D,
but there ya go!

i am going to check out the command on my 
other machine,
i will be back very soon,

to start copying.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK,

at the prompt put *md W98*

that stands for Make Directory

i take it this is C: drive?

(there is another temporary drive
which may be C or D, we dont want
that one, we want the one that has
some stuff still in it, the temp 
one should be empty)

Then do a dir on it,
and hopefully a new folder called 
W98 will be there along with the rest


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok did that, and it's there!!!

YEAH!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK, its empty yet.

please confirm that is in C drive,
along with the other 9 folders.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

could you now go back to the CD unit,
i think thats E drive?
put *cd W98*
that should then show,
E:\W98
i'll wait for you to come back

Dont do anything yet,
dont run setup
or scandisk

waiting


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Yes it is


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

when i do that on drive E it says

Invalid directory


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Yes 
im sorry,
I made a mistake.
I should have said WIN98 not W98

We can change it now if you like.

it will mean going back to the C drive 

sorry about that.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

ok i did that went back to C drive and did the md win98 then made sure it was there.........then went to the E drive and put in cd win98 and says invalid directory..............


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

the instruction to change the name
is fairly easy.
at the C drive:

*ren W98 WIN98*

ren is short for Rename, ok
you could do a dir to see that its ok now,

Now we can go back to the E drive.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok
it doesnt matter about the extra one,
we can delete it later.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok i screwed up and did all of that before you replied.....so when i went back to c drive and tried to rename it, it says duplicate file or name or file in use..............


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Ok at the E prompt please put dir/p
your looking for WIN98

(or maybe W98, but unlikely)


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok at the E drive now........sorry if I am frustrating you


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok found the one that says Win98


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

You have to get into that folder.
Try again with
cd Win98

E:\>*cd win98*

should change to

*E:\Win98>*


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok i am there...........e:\win98>


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hows it going?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Now that I am there, what do I do now????


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Fine.

from this position, we can copy the cabs to your new
folder in C drive.

Back in a sec.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok my mother has gone to bed, and I am left with this, and don't know how to copy the cabs to the new folder in drive C?

Your so wonderful!!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

please put:
copy *.* C:\win98

so it looks like this,

E:\win98>copy *.* C:\Win98

one space either side of *.*

The * is a 'wildcard' and here
means any files.

This will run for a bit,
and it may tell you as its copying,
just let it run till its done.

OK


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok John it's running!!! Thanks a bunch! Will it be ok for me to let it run and go to bed and finish tomorrow or not?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

just got your mail,
are you that tired?

hang on till its done copying,
then shut down.
after that the worst is over.

hope that no files fail to copy.


Im not frustrated or annoyed at all.
just sorry its taken so long.
usually a HD will format without a problem.
I am surprised no one else has come in with
suggestions, except rugrat, cheers


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

should be nearly copied now?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok I am still here. It just finished and says 101 files copied. So now do I turn it off and then turn it back on or what?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

just a column of copied files?
nothing to say any of them didnt go alright?
all on ok, yes?

if so
thats it for now.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Yes just a column of copies filed. 
Nothing that says they didn't go right

Looks ok to me!!!!!

Hopefully


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

get some sleep.
run setup tomorrow.

OK


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok thanks so much!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

you're welcome of course,
but we still dont know that it will
be ok on that machine,
dont know the ram?
speed?
hope its ok tomorrow.
Goodnight, John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Good evening John,

I haven't done anything else to the computer, cause I didn't want to mess anything up. So if you have time and what to help me I will be lurking around for awhile. 

Thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Good evening,

you may need an hour or two.

Run setup.
see how it goes.

ok


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

from cabs


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

perhaps i should be clearer.
remove all disks.
switch on.
get to C:\Win98>
type setup
press enter.

Come back let us know whats happening.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi elwiley,

its been a while,
hows it going?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok now it's saying drive H only has .03 mb and it needs 1.5 mb. It says you may need to copy files to compressed drive host, or your start up drive. What I don't understand is that we use to have windows 98 on this computer and deleted it, and tried to install it again, and that is where all the problems started. You said we needed to know how much ram it has, well where can I find that at??????

Thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,
gonna have to catch up.

can we start again
from tonight?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok sure thing!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK,
take any disks out,
switch off,
count to ten,
switch on.

Come back, 
whats on the screen?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Oh gosh tons of stuff

Ok first says these files are missing or corrupted

WIN\COMMAND\DRVSPACE.SYS

WIN\HIMEM.SYS

WIN\DBLBUFF.SYS

WIN\IFSHLP.SYS

Then says windows has detected a registry\configuration error
Chose command prompt only and run scan reg


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

do you have a C prompt ?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Yes I do


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2002)

Impressive John.... very, very impressive. 
Hope you 2 don't mind me taking this all in 

Jonesiegirl


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

C:\>dir/o/p 
please,
and how much free space is in C


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

I've been following along but as for the offering of suggestions part,,,You have been doing so well I figured I'd be doing well just to follow along


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi bandit,

well we got the cabs onto the HD,
now theres more stuff arrived?

Will deltree shift it?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok I don't know if I am telling you this right or not.

The only place I see anything is at the end where it tells u how many files and dir, and next to how many dir it says so much bytes free.........is that where i am suppose to be looking?


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

I really meant what I said,, I was learning,, but I will get out and see if I can get some links that may help, I honestly don't know about deltree, I'm sorry


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

Deltree which is short for delete and is a command used to delete files permanently from the computer

http://www.computerhope.com/deltree.htm#01

http://www3.sympatico.ca/rhwatson/dos7/z-deltree.html

http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/bkdeltree98.html

http://users.cybercity.dk/~bse26236/batutil/help/DELTREES.HTM


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Bandit, i dont think you'l learn too much from me ! 
yes please find what you can about it.

ewliey,
yes thats the place,
how many free bytes or kbytes or megabytes
are there on C drive?

and how many directories are there on C drive?

An can you look thru the files on C drive and see if there is one called deltree,? thanks

please answer the three questions, cheers


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok

11 dir
723,124,224 bytes free

And the only thing I see is:

del

no deltree


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ewiley,
forget the deltree question.
it doesnt show up.
i think its inside Command.com

OK.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok ewiley,

could you put *deltree*
at the C prompt please.

it wont run without entering parameters,
but it will tell you if its there.

if its there it will return with
'required parameter missing'

okey-dokey


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

OK!

Gosh never thought this would be so damn frustrating.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

says bad command or file name


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

so its not there.

lets see if its on your floppy,
put floppy in,
change to A: drive,
put deltree, press enter.

hopefully its there.

We could try getting rid of that other stuff
using delete,
but its difficult and time consuming. 

better to use deltree if we can.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

says the same thing bad command or file name


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

May be help

http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98394&highlight=system+transferred

Editted: upon further reading I see you have already been there,,,,,still looking

Edited by AcaCandy, fixed link......


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Bandit, thanks for looking.

ewiley,
i think 720 megabytes should be enough to
load Win98se

i dont know why its asked for 1.5 g bytes

Could you try the del command at one of
the larger unwanted folders please.

dont delete Win98 ok,

find the name of an unwanted
and get into it at the C prompt like this,

*C:\>cd unwanted*

should change to

*C:\unwanted>*

then put del *.* after it, note space after del

*C:\unwanted>del *.**

for this the wildcards mean any folders within.
This may not be an easy way to do this.

It might be better to download some dos to sort
this out.
Give it a try first ok?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Yes it worked!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

good grief!

something worked?

So you now have nine unwanted folders
and the Win 98 cabs, yes?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

hang on,
i think that just empties the folder


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

ok ewiley,

to get rid of the empty folder

its C:\>del (folder name)

OK


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

just out of interest,
you tried to run setup, yes?

can you tell me what disks you had
in the pc then?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

AS mentioned way back on Page one, this is a compressed drive. That means nothing you are doing is going to install Windows until and unless you uncompress the drive itself. Or use Fdisk to remove the current partitions and then create a new partition and then format that. Start fresh.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q193051


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Thanks for looking Mosaic,
so Win wont load onto a compressed drive?
and thats the prob here?

Just a bit unclear on Start Fresh.
Do you mean format?
cos we tried format,
it complained bitterly.

That at least explains the H drive,
i think thats a little partition for the compression
handling programs. 

So how would we go about formatting this beastie?

Elwiley, i am sorry this has dragged on and it now
it looks as though we will have to start over again.
but with Mosaics advice, it should go smoothly.

John


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

You would be better off using FAT32.

Do not do a format first. Do an Fdisk and Delete the current partitions. Then create a new Partition(s) Then the format. Then the install.

http://personal.picusnet.com/jtmurphy/fdisk.htm


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

cheers, i had a look at that,
it doesnt seem to have an option for no partition.

unless i missed it.

is it easier to have one?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i had another look through that link,
and there is an option three,
which looks like no partition,
to me.

So thats the way to go, yes?
Start with the bootdisk in the floppy drive,
choose fdisk,
choose option three, (delete partition)
then format.

Does that sound about right?
Anyone comment on that?


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

You are missing a step. You delete the old partition(s) and then you create a new parition whichis then formatted. That's the short version. You have to reboot too.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

So how do you choose no partition?

I dont want to keep you up.
we can talk tomorrow.
I have to sleep too.

Your help is most appreciated and you
have shown the way to go here.
Please follow the thread as i doubt it
will be plain sailing anyway.

Many thanks, John


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

You can't. Even if the hard drive is only one letter, ie one partition, it is still a Primary Dos Partition. 

You delete the old and then create a new one.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

i see.
one partition is the whole drive, yes?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

OK,
so the corrected recipe would be:

Start with the bootdisk in the floppy drive, 
run fdisk,
choose option three, (delete partition or dos drive)
then choose option one, (create dos partition) 
then format.
Then re-start with bootdisk in floppy drive.

I hope thats right now.
elwiley will be pleased to get this sorted out!

Any comments on the above?
Is that Ok?


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

Yes and don't forget to enable large disk support when asked 


Insert the floppy windows 98 bootdisk and choose to start without cdrom support,,, at the a:\> prompt type the word fdisk 

then choose option 3 to delete the primary partition "enter" 

then choose option 1 delete a primary partition "Enter" 

Put the number of the partition you wish to delete "should be a 1" enter put a Y in for yes and push enter 

after its finished push esc to return to the first screen and choose to create a primary DOS partition and make it active 


Note that there should be an A in the partition information line after you finish,,,,,also enter a Y for large disk support when asked and use all available space in the creation of your primary DOS partition 

escape your way all the way out to the A:\> and restart
restart with cd rom support and at the a:\> and type exactly Format C: /s don't foget the spaces, it will appear like this when you get it 


a:\>Format C: /s 
hit Y for yes when asked 
let the hard drive format and when its finished press enter for none and . 

when its completly finished formatting type E: hit enter,Be sure the cd is in ,,then type setup.exe. 
hit enter,,,,,,,then read the instruction after and hit enter for the scandisk and x to exit out when scandisk is finished.

Note: you may restart without cdrom support to do the format if you have a "not enough memory error" after the format restart with cdrom support and install windows


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

John1 and Elwiley,

I did'nt know about compressed drives an if it had'nt been for Mosaic1 I still would'nt. But I have done a lot of fdisk and format.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

I have never worked with a compressed drive either. They are a thing of ther past for the most part. Drives being relatively inexpensive compared to what they were buying a larger drive is the rule now. 

One quick thought. If that drive was compressed, then it may be very small. The reason for compressing a drive in the first place is to be able to hold more information. I have no idea how large or small it is and whether it will suit your needs.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by elwiley:_
> *Sorry John but dont' know what the Key code is. I do have a W98se bootdisk. And yes working in DOS. Thanks *


Do you have a Windows 98 installation cd? Also, I am not sure I understand how you 'deleted windows 98' to begin with.......

And, are we certain the hard drive is compressed to begin with?

You will get an error message similar to compression problems if you are trying to overinstall to an OEM installation using a different version of Windows as well......

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q193051&


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

AcaCandy,
Thanks for calling in on this.
I see you have looked through the previous postings,
from your last post.
Miss wiley has now found a key code,
which we hope will be suitable.

I think its going to be handed over to a sister in the
house?? i think they just wanted to wipe it clean of
any personal stuff.

The older drives seem to take fairly well to compression,
i feel that newer ones have really pushed at the limits,
and often give problems under compression.

I should have KNOWN it was compressed when she mentioned
the H DRIVE, ive seen it before and i didnt clock it!!

Yes the W98 CD has cabs on it, in WIN98, so i spose it
is an install CD, not a upgrade (as if i would know!)

I have a stinking headache, i think its eyestrain, but
i will be in and out, as it comes and goes.

Lastly, yes i'm sure its a compression problem now.

Im on a laptop cos im taking it easy for a bit, and im
being flooded with Zone Alarm alerts, heaven knows why!!

Be Back Later, ...... John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

John,

I got a headache reading all of this.  

Anyway I am completely lost in all of this. Sorry!!!

I will be online for a little bit if you are around, if not then maybe I will talk to you later

Thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi,

i wont stay long, my head is poorly.
Here's a summary:

Start with the bootdisk in the floppy drive, 
run fdisk, 
choose option three, (delete partition or dos drive) 
then choose option one, (create dos partition) 
then format. 
Then re-start with bootdisk in floppy drive. 

And read bandits post carefully. (post 124)
There are now people looking at this thread
who are smart, and know just what to do.

got to go and rest, be back later,
if you get stuck, just post a question ok,

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Hi John,

Hope you are feeling better!!!

Just wanted to let you know I am exhausted tonight, so I will try and work on this tomorrow. And will let you know how it goes. 

Take Care!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi elwiley,

Im glad you're keeping in touch,
Hope you feel more like it tomorrow,
yes i do feel much more active today.

Read through these last few posts and
you will get a feel for whats involved.

I will try to sum up the situation.

The drive appears to have been compressed,
thats where the computer alters the hard drive
settings from the manufacturer, and writes data
on the HD at a higher rate than originally intended.
Sometimes the concentric circles are placed closer
to get more in, sometimes the radial sectors are
squeezed closer, sometimes a mixture of both.

An extra partition is (usually) put on the HD holding
the dedicated software written to handle the extra
steering and locating thats needed to 'marry up' the
new arrangement with the original settings.

Most times this extra partition is called 'H DRIVE'
Lots of things dont work properly with compression.

Windows wont install on a compressed drive, although
once installed, i think that the drive can then be
compressed. (others will soon correct me if im wrong)
So it appears this is whats happened here.

This introduces another angle. Each partition is
regarded as a separate drive by the PC, and each is
allocated a different letter. If the format
instruction is run, it will just wipe the drive that
its told to wipe, even if that is only a small part
of the whole hard drive. The other partitioned parts
wouldn't be wiped, unless they were done separately.

So to get the machine to see the HD as a single unit
the partitions have to go.
Thats where fdisk comes in.
After its back as a single drive, it can be formatted
then a normal install of W98 should be ok.

I hope ive described this properly, if not someone
will soon correct it!

And i have tried to explain in normal language so 
its easy to follow.(re-written a few times actually) 

When you're ready theres usually someone on line
here in case you get stuck.

AcaCandy, Bandit, Mosaic, anyone else, if ive left
anything out, or got anything wrong please jump in
and say so!

Cheers, John


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

I'd say thats a good summary There was one important point I left out,,The goal Is to delete the partitions (more than one) and create a single partition if possible,,,it may not be possible, according to the size of the drive and software installed but thats the goal. I'll check back later


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok tell me what to do

I typed in fdisk

chose option three 
then chose option one and it says 

Partition selected is not a primary dos partition

What do I do know?

On the screen is shows 

Partition 1 is non dos and has 2 mbytes

Partition 2 which has a c in front of it, status is A, Type is Pri Dos,

Mbytes 501, System is FAT 16 and usuage is 100%


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

make your selection 2 and continue.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok just making sure this is right, 

I chose option three and then chose option one, and now i will

chose number two, which then ask for a volume label, what do i 

put as the volume label????


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

Hopefully the volume label will be "none"
so just press enter,,,,,,,don't type anything at all


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

OR you can call it something creative like #(#(#)@!)# at which point when I get angry sometimes makes me feel better


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

So after I do everything you said in #124 then I can try to install windows? Right????


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Hi,
I sent a PM to Bandit. My opinion is that this drive is too small to use for Windows98 About 1/2 Gig. That's why it was compressed for Win95. 

To find the Volume label go to the menu and choose to view Partition information that's #4

The Volume label is listed there.

And I think the non Dos partition is something you are going to remove too. But if you do not plan to install Windows 95, my opinion is to forget it. I also wonder how much RAM you have.


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

I missed the drive size in your post 134,,You will have to have windows 95


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

did that 500 Mb mentioned mean the whole drive,
or just a partition?

I thought 98 would go on 300 Mb?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Well all I know is that I am installing windows and have gotten further along that we were normally getting..............So maybe this will work. Says it has 54 minutes left, so I will let you know if it happens!!!!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

please describe what your getting


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

You need at least 100 MB free or Windows gets nasty. Remember, the swap file has to have room to grow. Are you going to use this machine on the Internet? If so, temp int , for one grows fast. Do you plan on installing any other programs? They will take up space. Then there are the Windows updates you will need to install. There are a few of those. And do you plan on keeping any personal documents here?

My opinion is that yes, you might install tonight. But actually using Windows98 on this machine is going to be at the very least extremely problematic and at worst impossible. 


Again. The reason this drive was compressed to begin with was that it was too small to be of use. That was in Win95. I cannot imagine how it is going to behave now. 


And then there is the Hardware.....


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

enforcer911,
Hello. Would you please start your own thread to ask your question? 
This is a long and confusing one . I am sure you will get more help and it will avoid the confusion of trying to juggle two different problems at once.

Mo


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

No it won't be used for internet purposes. This is my mother's old computer that we are giving to my niece. So your saying that it it's not working properly or if she wants other programs we need to use windows 95?


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

MOSAIC, yes, you're right,
i had forgotten the swapfile.

On my older PC, with a smaller drive,
i had a command to del the swap file at startup,
co it kept getting too big for its boots.
something like:

IF EXIST SWAPFILE DEL SWAPFILE

Something like that.
I think it went into Autoexec ??

I could have a look for the exact wording,
if you think its a possibility.

John


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

enforcer,

You have come up into an existing thread.
Scroll to the bottom,
change 'forum jump' to email,
click on the little square 'go'
start from there........ok

john


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

elwiley,
Hello. Yes. That hard drive is too small to be useful. That's why it was compressed to begin with. I had a 512 MB Hard Drive when I ran Win95a a couple of years ago and I was constantly battling a lack of Hard Drive Space. 

As I said, you really only have about 400 MB to use as you please. 100 MB at least needs to be kept free for the Swap file. 


And there are likely other issues. Trying to put a larger Hard Drive in might be a problem. There is probably an 8 Gig limit in the BIOS. And I don't know what else is going on with a computer that old. 

I am sorry to tell you this. I know you have made a tremendous effort to install Windows. I wish I had better news for you.

Mo


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

John1,
Hi. You posted while I typed my last response. In my opinion, even if the OS were stripped down to bare bones. Removing DUN and all the fat. You still would have a problem. 

What good is the OS without other programs? 

I know you all put a lot of effort in this. But sometimes facing the facts and calling it a day is all one can do.


Mo


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

So bascially what you are saying is that there is no use in putting windows 98 on this computer...........yep put alot of damn effort into this, and now it's going to be even more frustrating........


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I would be inclined to finish putting 98 on.
Then look at the system.
it will be tight,
but you might think thats ok.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Well I will let you know how it goes!!! 
Probably not what I expected it to do though. 

But thanks so much for all your help. 

Sorry you spent so much time trying to help me 

Take care!!!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

please come back,
when its on,
there are still things to check,

I feel sure that everyone here is
happy to help, and would like to
know how its gone on.


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

there may be some troubles after,,,and you might not have the extra space to do a lot with it but we are all very inerested in how things turn out,,,,sorry all I had a serious connection problem,
how old is your neice?


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok we got it up now, and my mom checked the free space and it 

has almost 300MB free........So is that bad or ok????


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

My niece is 11........so didn't see that question!!!!


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

Youll have to be really careful what you put on it,,,look ad the size of every program before you install it,,,you may have to uninstall before you can install the next program,,it should be a good way to start someone out with an understanding of disk size.

plus you can't forget you have to keep some free space for the swap file,,I don't know the amount right now


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Well, its tight.
you could reduce history to '0'

Mo didnt comment on making the SWP
restart every time, that keeps it to minimum.

I presume oe5 is on there?
you could set deleted to empty on exit.

There are quite a few things you can do
to try to save space.

Could you tell us what the Ram is?

Right Click on 'my computer',
click on properties.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2002)

*Stands and applauds ALL of you!* I've followed this thread since the first weary cry of elwiley... what persistence! What fortitude! What INTELLIGENCE! 

BRAVO!


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

Go to Control Panel>Add Remove Programs>Windows Setup Tab.

Have a look at everything installed there. You can remove a lot of it. 

If not sure post back. Have a look at the numbers and you'll see. Desktop Themes alone takes up 31.7 MB on my machine. And you do not need Communications if no Internet. 



Removing Outlook Express is something to remove. But Internet Explorer stays. 

There is a lot to remove. But offhand it has been a long time since I did all that and I don't remember most of it. Be careful. do not start deleting files or folders. Post here and ask first. And never just delete a program. Always uninstall it properly.

I don't know about this. I wish you good luck. Remember to keep a miinimum of 100 MB disk space free. I have read it could be as much as 120 Mb.


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

I thought I had read 20% but I was'nt sure,,,,did'nt want to be foolish and stick my foot in it again


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Screen savers always seem to take a lot of room.


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

John,

I looked and it's 48MB

I also looked under the control panel and settings and deleted some stuff that was suggested.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Thats 48 Mb of ram, yes?
thats not bad for an old machine!

Do you know the speed?
(Mz)


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

My mom is thinking, but is there a way to look at that on the computer............


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

goto start,,,,settings,,,control panel,,,system,performance tab its all there


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

To get a very detailed look at your information go here and Download BelArc Advisor. Put it on floppy and take it to the other computer.
Install and run it.
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok don't see it there....

It shows memory, the ram, system resources, file system and vitual memory and that's all...........

Is it one of those or not????????


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

It's the first one. Memory


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Well the memory says 83%


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

Elwiley ,,sometimes I make mistakes because I switch between so many computers,,Mosaic1 is rifgt about belarc advisor,,its a good small program that you can remove later if you wish


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok thanks


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

that belarc is a very useful tool.
go to that link,
put a floppy in,
click on the blue word download on the belarc site,
click on ok to save to disk,
change to floppy in 'save as' box,
click on save to save to the floppy.

bandit,
dont worry about slip ups,
i missed that H DRIVE,
i still feell silly cos ive seen it before,
and didnt clock it!


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## bandit429 (Feb 12, 2002)

my biggest problem has always been trying too hard,,,,but I try never to give up. Its the combination that helps me learn. lots of bruises and bangs along the way but lessons never forgotten


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Mosaic,
you still haven't made any comment on that
command to DEL the swapfile, i looked it up,
its still on my older PC,
it just makes the swapfile start from
scratch each time.

It used to get quite big, till
someone told me to try that.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

john1,
I have read that too. But I also read a recent comment from WhitPhil. He said that each time the swap file is deleted it is moved further out on the hard drive and is less efficient. When WhitPhil speaks, I listen.

*elwiley,* 
How much room is on the hard drive now? This sure is a compact little Win98 install. I am amazed. Is this Win 98 First Edition?

I never would have thought this would work. Something to remember for the future. After you install a program, reboot and then after go into Windows\temp and clean it out. Often an extra set of install files is kept there and not cleaned up. They can take up a lot of Hard Drive space and are not needed. Every KB counts here.

If you ever try to defrag that drive, Windows is going to need extra room to move the files around too. There are many considerations here.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Thanks Mo,
I didnt know that about the swapfile,
that one of mine has been there a long time,
so its probably as far out as it will go!
Still seems to work ok.

I'm not sure if W98se installs the cabs anyway,
but as elwiley has the CD they could be wiped,
they are over 90 Mb i think. (if they're there)
John


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

john,
Hi again. No Win98 doesn't automatically install the cabs on the hard drive. Only systems with restore disks do that and that is written into their special install routines.

The less RAM the more likely the swap file will be needed. And it will be larger too.

As an experiment I measured my Swap File. It was 128 Mb. I rebooted and deleted it from DOS. I had not deleted it in a couple months. At Boot it was 60 MB
After I signed onto the Internet it was 90 MB.
Right now, after only a couple of minutes it is up to 92MB

I have 128 MB RAM.


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## Mosaic1 (Aug 17, 2001)

14 minutes later and win386.swp is 108 MB.
I think it is going to find its own size as needed. And deleting it is not going to change that.

It all depends on how much RAM you have and how much Memory your activites demand. If you run out of RAM, data needed at the present time is stored on the Hard Drive in the swap file. When it is needed immediately, Windows removes some data from memory(RAM) and replaces that with the data required immediately. It *swaps* the DATA from the Hard Drive to RAM and back again as needed. Accessing information from RAM is incredibly faster than from the Hard Drive. Virtual Memory helps to keep the information you need at hand and swaps it in and out of RAM as needed.

Now after settling in here a while, my Swap file is back down to
92.MB It is dynamic. You are not going to control its size by deleting it. Maybe its fragmentation. Some people, including myself, delete the swap file and then do a defrag immediately when returning to Windows. Not allowing Windows to manage the Swap file and setting a minimum but no maximum size ,then deleting and defragging is said to keep the Swap file contiguous and reduce hard drive thrashing. This is WhitPhil territory. I never post this kind of thing. LOL I had to do a little research to refresh my own "Virtual Memory"

EDIT: Now at 2.41 and some more surfing the swap file is back up to 100 MB again. Lots of changes. I am making demands on Memory.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Mosaic,

Thanks for looking at it.
I only have 64megs of ram in my heap,
i dont do much multi tasking,
just a bit of surfing,
my win386.swp is at 45,056 kb now,
i have normal 'windows managed'
and i have never deleted it on this PC.
This HD is 10 gig so i dont worry.

I would be interested in how it behaves
on elwileys machine.

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Hello All,

Just wanted to let you know I really haven't messed with the computer much since we got Windows 98 on it. I am going to try and do something tomorrow. So I will keep you updated on how it goes. 

Thanks to you all for your help

And thanks a million to John who kept trying to figure it out!!!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Thank you elwiley,

and im sure that all of
us will say you are welcome 

John


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok this is my question.....

Just wondering if I need to have windows 95 on the computer is there somewhere I can download it or do I have to go out and buy it. 

I am going to try the windows 98, but just in case I can't use it wanting to see how to go about gettting the windows 95?

Thanks!!!!


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

You'd need to buy a copy of windows 95....

I found it for $32 by doing a search at pricewatch.com plus shipping and handling, of course......


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## elwiley (Oct 13, 2002)

Ok thanks!!!!


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