# Outlet Has Current- but doesn't work! HELP!



## 1WallFlower

We have an outlet in our living room- it hasn't worked for quite some time. I bought a outlet tester- and it has a current (it lights-up). Bought a new outlet to replace it because we thought it was bad- but it tests positive for electricity.

What would cause it to test that there is electricity- yet nothing works when its plugged into it?

Thanks in advance for any reply- I'm totaly confused!


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## katonca

Hi wallflower

I'm not an electrical specialist but your question perked my interest I found this:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Electrical-Wiring-Home-1734/outlets-giving-trouble.htm

Pretty good info on electricity :up:

Good luck


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## 1WallFlower

That link was very interesting and helpful- Thank you!

Mr. Bill from the old SNL- now that brings back memories!


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## katonca

1WallFlower said:


> That link was very interesting and helpful- Thank you!
> 
> Mr. Bill from the old SNL- now that brings back memories!


Mr Bill, Froggy, Ghoulardi......kids don't know what they missed :up:

Good luck with the electrical. Personally, anything that can kill you and you can't see it  Has my respect


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## johnnyburst79

You have tried multiple appliances in this outlet and none work? Have you tested another outlet for comparison voltage, ohms, and amperage? Tried that appliance in another outlet?


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## 1WallFlower

Yes- there has been multiple different items plugged-into that outlet and all of them didn't work. They all work via an extension cord (to reach where they are) plugged-into a different outlet.

I'm thinking, from the previous reply, that there is a break in the wire. In fact we removed a center island in the kitchen which had an outlet to it- the wiring is now without an outlet and is under our house- Maybe that's it!?

Thank you for your reply-


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## Knotbored

There was a period-about 1960's when aluminum wiring was used, and outlets were shorting out and causing fires until new electrical boxes were made to accomodate the alum/copper connection-seems corosion caused an oxide insulation barier at the wire connection, which sparked. Look at the wires at the box-if aluminum then replace the box with new ones, I believe they now all are made to accomodate either copper or aluminum wire.


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## 1WallFlower

This is a 1998 maufactured home- and the outlet has copper wire. Thank you for your reply- that's some useful info to someone who didn't know that will find useful!


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## JohnWill

Your device may indicate power, since the neon light in it draws a tiny amount of current. However, if appliances don't work, I'd look at the other end of the wire either where it goes through another box or at the breaker panel. I suspect that's where the loose connection is.


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## Soundy

Have you checked the actual voltage yet? Get a multimeter (buy a cheap one, if you need to; you should be able to find something for $10-$15) and check the voltage between all three prongs - between the two slots should read around 110-120VAC, between the hot (narrow slot) and ground should read about the same, and between the neutral (wider slot) and ground should read nothing. Anything different indicates a wiring fault, possibly something serious.

You could also try one of these outlet testers - any Home Depot or similar type of outlet should carry them: 








(I recommend the multimeter though, it's more versatile and not much more expensive...)

Come to think of it, if the toaster plug has a ground prong, the glow light may be connected between the hot and chassis and be showing a working ground, even if the outlet has a bad neutral connection.

If possible, check all three voltages again when a device is plugged in and turned on, and see if it drops (assuming it reads properly in the first place).

_NOTE: BE VERY CAREFUL DOING THIS! Make sure you're not touching the metal part of the meter probes when you insert them into the outlet. I know it sounds like advice for a five-year-old, but I've seen some scary stuff happen because someone just wasn't paying attention.
_


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## wacor

you may be on to something about the outlet on the island being eliminated. That may have been a junction where the wiring to you problem outlet came from. i would try to find that box and check the connections there. you maybe getting voltage but no neutral due to a bad connection. the only way as mentioned earlier to verify voltage is with a meter. the cheap gadgets that detect electricity do not indicate the voltage there but just presence of electricity.


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## Soundy

True, but one of those cheap plug-in testers will at least tell if the wiring is right.

Thing is, chances of there actually being LOW voltage at only one outlet as very very very slim - either the wiring is connected, or it isn't, and if it is (properly), it should be getting the same voltage as any other outlet on the circuit. Any sort of "brownout" would likely be house-wide, or at the very least affect the entire circuit, not just a single outlet.

My first suspicion is still a disconnected neutral to that outlet, either at the outlet itself, or at the next point up the chain.


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## JohnWill

Actually, if a poor connection in the previous box in series with this one is the issue, one outlet can indeed have a problem. I've seen this more than once where the voltage measured properly until a load was on the outlet.


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## n2gun

I suggest a volt meter be used to measure the voltage, then put a load (lamp?) on it and measure the voltage again. If you get 110-120 volts without a load and it drops way off under load, you have a bad connection somewhere. Work your way back checking connections. Definitely look at the connections where the Island was.


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## kiwiguy

If the "tester" only uses a neon indication then it really does not prove a connection as explained above. Induced voltage from the cable running parallel to a live one can result in such an indication, where there is an induced voltage, but no current is available to power anything (apart from the few microamps for the tester).

Never trust a neon to prove anything. They do not provide any "load".


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## Soundy

Hmmm, if memory serves, those little bare neon bulbs have about a 70VAC operating voltage (could be wrong there, it's been about 20 years since I've actually worked with one)... either way, in an outlet tester they have resistors added for proper operation at 120 or 240VAC... just how far are these wired running parallel to be able to induce enough current to light them up?

Anyway, the idea with the tester I mentioned above is to check for the proper wiring of all three prongs. If one wire is off, you won't get the "proper" display.

Like I said, in this case, I strongly suspect a loose neutral to that outlet... while a DMM will be more versatile, a simple three-way tester will reveal whether this is the case.


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## n2gun

kiwiguy said:


> If the "tester" only uses a neon indication then it really does not prove a connection as explained above. Induced voltage from the cable running parallel to a live one can result in such an indication, where there is an induced voltage, but no current is available to power anything (apart from the few microamps for the tester).
> 
> Never trust a neon to prove anything. They do not provide any "load".


I agree 100%. Years ago CB radio users would put neon bulbs on the end of thier antennas and with NO connection they would light when the radio transmitted. Neon bulbs are only an indicator not a true test.


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## JohnWill

I've seen the neon testers indicate voltage where none exists, which is why I mentioned it in the first place.


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## buck52

please point me towards a digital multimeter that shows volts under load any better that a two prong volt tester with a indicator light...

Are all of you saying that my two prong tester is lieing when it tells me I am working with 440


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## Soundy

Your tester, if it's the type I'm thinking of, simply has multiple neon bulbs with different value resistors to light up for different voltage "steps" - it won't give you an exact voltage reading, and won't tell if, for example, the voltage drops by 15-20V when under load.

A basic neon tester will let you determine if the wiring is actually connected and connected properly, which is all I've been recommending it for (specifically the type I posted the picture of above). Further testing than that will still require a multimeter.

And yes, neon bulbs will also glow in the presence of a strong electromagnetic field, like a CB antenna when transmitting. That hardly invalidates them as a BASIC test device.


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## wacor

buck52 said:


> please point me towards a digital multimeter that shows volts under load any better that a two prong volt tester with a indicator light...
> 
> Are all of you saying that my two prong tester is lieing when it tells me I am working with 440


Hi Buck

I run across weird things diagnosing electrical problems in my business. I have seen voltage drops due to bad connections. In my case I am dealing with hard wiring so we check before and after connection points when under a load to see what is going on. In the case of a typical 110 volt outlet I am thinking that if it is a duplex outlet one could put standard voltage meters on the other outlet but not positive. We always check input and output when we get a weird situation which is somewhat unusual. Bottom line is one needs a voltage meter that indicates the actual voltage and not just a light detecting voltage. these meters are not that much money and you can get one at radio shack for probably under $30


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## kiwiguy

If using a digital meter or a neon indicator as both have very high impedance (i.e.almost no load) then only test the outlet with a load connected to the outlet.

If cables are run parallel in the wall or roof for a distance and one has a highish current, the magnetic field from that current will induce into the other cable, even if the other cable is not connected to the supply. This can give an erroneous indication.


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## buck52

Hi wacor

I use a multimeter all the time at work and fully understand its value. I was trying to be a little funny... failed  ....

I personally have never seen a multimeter that can induce a load. The way I would do it is as Kiwiguy said... plug something into one half of a duplex and then test the other half with a meter


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## kiwiguy

I only speak as a qualified electrician, electronics technician and electrical engineer, with 43 years experience when I say dont trust a high impedance tester without a load, even a 25 watt lamp will do for the load.

In the old days the AVO analog meters were only a kilo-ohm or two per volt, almost a load in themselves, but a digital meter today is about 10 megohms.


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## wacor

buck52 said:


> Hi wacor
> 
> I use a multimeter all the time at work and fully understand its value. I was trying to be a little funny... failed  ....
> 
> I personally have never seen a multimeter that can induce a load. The way I would do it is as Kiwiguy said... plug something into one half of a duplex and then test the other half with a meter


That was what I was trying to say but I guess my explanation was lacking.


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