# Laptops



## deuce (May 26, 2001)

I have a laptop that will *eventually* be getting replaced under Best Buy's no lemon policy. Actually that is a whole different story in the never ended saga of why Best Buy sucks. 

Anyway, when this is settled I will be looking at getting $1600 to $1800 back to spend on a new laptop. Do any of you guys have any suggestions in terms of brands to stay away from, models to look at, etc, in that price range? Any input will be appreciated. If I were looking for a desktop, I would just built it myself, but of course that is the limitation to the laptop. 

Thanks,
Mike


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## jgjulio (Apr 15, 2004)

I own and hate a HP laptop that has gone for repair (through Best Buy) once to repair the power switch, the hard drive, and the touch pad. Now it will be returning for round two for the touch pad again. Anyway I got frustrated after it crashed 4 times need to be reformatted and bought a Fujitsu Lifebook. I love it!!! 
From what I understand and have read - Fujitsu and Toshiba have the Lowest Repair records in the industry.
My laptop has the new extra bright and clear screens that are now appearing. This type of screen blows away anyother I have ever seen. I get nothing but jealous looks and compliments from everyone!

As an aside I will not be buying any other big ticket item from Best Buy again.


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## MSM Hobbes (Apr 23, 2004)

My work laptop is a Dell, 1.5 years old, running WinXP Pro. Has been quite good to date, major issues is the HD is way too small for my needs [only 20GB ], the MS Media Player [versions 9 and 10 both] has issues in its desire to hog all the system resources after about 1.5 hours of continuous playing, and Word/Excel/PP crash on occasion due to some "unknown fault". However, all of these issues, sans the HD, are software related. Seriously, if it was my funds, and any compatibility issues were not going to hamper you, I recommend an Apple. I'll prob be in the vast minority saying that here  , but they have the highest rating per many surveys for their hardware, software, and support. I've yet to find a person that I've met in airport terminals, seminars, etc. that I've inquired of that has had anything but positive experience and comments about 'em - and I've probably interviewed/talked with over 70 some people to date.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Thanks for the input guys. Toshiba and Fujitsu are actually the first two brands I would consider. I would prefer to go with Fujitsu, but I'm not sure if Best Buy carries them. Unfortunately, the money is kind of stuck in Best Buy. I agree though, definately time to stop buying the big ticket items from Best Buy. My 27" JVC i'Art flat screen is starting to make loud buzzing noises, and it's only 9 months old...so that's great, I get to deal with them again. However they know me pretty well after this HP ordeal, so I guess we'll see just how things go when I bring that sucker in.  And that thing is fricken heavy.

Anybody else have any Toshiba/Fujitsu experience they can share? Maybe some different suggestions? Software issues aren't really a concern, but any and all hardware issues are what I'm looking for. Anybody know if Best Buy would be willing to order a laptop that they don't carry in the store?


Thanks guys


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## jgjulio (Apr 15, 2004)

On the Best Buy website they do not have Fujitsu they do have Toshiba. If my HP has to qualify for the No Lemon Policy I would opt for the Toshiba laptops.

If Best Buy is willing to order you a computer they do not carry I will drop dead from shock instantly. 

By the way, their warranty says if you have to bring in the same computer three times it is replaced - right? Is that on the third time or on the forth time that you get your money back?


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

> If Best Buy is willing to order you a computer they do not carry I will drop dead from shock instantly.


Yeah I know. I'm expecting them to tell me that I'm only allowed to get another HP, of similar performance as the old one.

Their policy kind of changes. (are you refering to the service plan terms regarding no lemon?) I'm prettty sure it is after 3 "qualified" repairs. Some employees say on the fourth, some say fifth...but it should be when you bring it in for the fourth "qualified repair". And you don't actually get your money back. You get store credit good only for the purchase of a computer. They do not consider battery replacement to be a "qualified repair" however in my case they just keep calling it a battery replacement each time, so now I have 4 batteries sitting around. This is the 9th time it has gone in for repair, and they say there is only one qualified repair, even though the hard drive has been replaced, LCD, and power inverter...these three alone should be enough, but they keep trying to through loop holes at me. Oh well; anyway...


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## jgjulio (Apr 15, 2004)

Sorry to hear that. I ran into their excuses on a cel phone I brought in that was not working on warranty. I was told that the phone manufacturer had changed their policy so they could not replace my phone.

It blows me away how this company figures that we are all stupid and wont figure out that what they promise when they sell the product is not what they will honor later.

I used to spend a lot of money at that store and now I will buy an occassional DVD or battery. I no longer trust their service. 

I guess when you get real big you figure that you dont need any individual customer. 

Good luck with them.


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## Skivvywaver (Mar 18, 2001)

I have never had an issue with BestBuy. I might be lucky. I had an emachine way back in the day that was a dud. I took it back twice and on the third time I told them I wasn't taking an emachine home with me.

They gave me credit for the emachine and let me spend a few extra bucks to upgrade to a Micron that was one hell of a good machine.

I also had a 15 inch monitor go bad and took it in for replacement. They didn't have the 15 inch but gave me a 17 inch instead. I think if you go and see a manager you will get credit toward a new laptop, or a direct replacement of what you now have.

If you think BestBuy sucks, try dealing with crapusa. Crapusa are thieves, plain and simple.


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## MSM Hobbes (Apr 23, 2004)

Speaking of laptops, keep in mind that the heat from one can be enough in not much time it can damage male reproductive system; the heat is not friendly to sperm count. Permanent damage can occur if laptop sits on your lap too often, too long. Just a friendly warning... guess tho' is one manner for a guy to stop having more critters.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Skivvywaver said:


> I have never had an issue with BestBuy. I might be lucky. I had an emachine way back in the day that was a dud. I took it back twice and on the third time I told them I wasn't taking an emachine home with me.
> 
> They gave me credit for the emachine and let me spend a few extra bucks to upgrade to a Micron that was one hell of a good machine.
> 
> ...


Best Buy has become much more strict with their policies. One used to get away with anything with them. Years ago, we had a destop that went through 3 repairs, and all we had to do was bring in the tower unit, and we were giving credit for the entire bill (which included a monitor and printer, both of which we didn't give back) and were turned lose in the store...little questions asked. I used to get away with all kinds of things; for instance, they once gave me a free DVD-RW because of their own stupidity...I just chose not to point out their error.

Anyway, I've spoken to manager upon manager and they don't seem to care that my laptop has had the same problem for 13 months, and it has ultimately gone un-repaired after 9 trips to the shop. I've also pointed out that in my case they are violating the Consumer Sales Practices Act, and that the Ohio attorney general recently sued Best Buy for exactly exactly that. Best Buy lost a lot of money over that little ordeal:


> *
> Attorney General Jim Petro Sues Best Buy For Unacceptable Business Practices*
> Dayton Daily News 8/19/04
> Ohio attorney general sues Best Buy
> ...


No one at that store seems to care. AND...with one quick glance at my file in their computer they can take note of the $1500 I have spent there in the past year alone, and they can also take note of the thousands of dollars my dad's company has spent there on laptops and such...and by taking these notes they hopefully have come to realize how much future business they are losing.

Right now I am writing a second letter to corporate, and I'll see if I get a response. I just had the laptop in, but they refused to replace it. I will be getting it back soon, and when I take it in next and when it still won't be replaced, I am considering taking my concerns to the MN attorney general. (and probably CC the Ohio attorney general while I'm at it) This is just riddiculous. It is a huge mess of people fighting over who must take responsibility. Best Buy says it is up to the service center to make the call on replacement. The service center says it is up to the insurance under writers, whom say it is up to the vender. The VENDER. The vender is HP, but the computer is almost 3 years old. I believe it is past warrenty--the vender shouldn't have anything to do with this anymore; however, it is still covered by Best Buy's service plan. But the fact of the matter is that a legitimate "insurance claim" is being denied, service to be performed is being fraudulently documented and service to be performed is just not being performed period. I probably have a case based solely on the poor business practices I have recieved. And on top of this, I have a laptop that I bought a service plan for, which is functional 3 days out of every month. I have had this laptop in my possession for about a total of 6 days since last December. During the other 90 days it has been floating around service centers. They get the laptop running and give it back to me, but it breaks again within 3 days and takes up to 6 weeks to get back. I will be having fun writing this letter. Their corporate policy states that they have 2-3 days to respond to my inquiry...in my letter they will be informed that they have 3 business days to repsond before this goes to the MN state attorney general's office. I happen to be in Minneapolis right now. I will probably try and drop this letter off at their corporate office personally...

I'm not one to mess with. My biggest worry is that they will keep throwing this around until next September when the service plan expires, and then try to tell me that I am no longer covered under the service plan. If they don't want this to end up on their doorstep, they best wake up and realize I am not going away until this is taken care of.

Did I mention that this is pissing me off?  If in anyone's opinion I seem to be taking this too seriously please let me know...


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

^ get this..."somebody" actually recently changed the description of service from a service tag in Janurary from whatever it was perviously, to "cleaning". To me it seems this was done to prevent that service tag from being claimed as a qualified repair counting against the qualified repairs required to get the computer replaced. The nature of the repair and problem was nothing close to a "cleaning". If this isn't some kind of fraud, I don't know what is.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Does anybody have any Viao experience they can share?


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## Aderon (Jan 23, 2005)

I own a Compaq and despite the fact that it is owned by HP, I love it to death. Does everything I need I need it do and perfectly.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Anybody own any of these laptops? Can anyone let me know what their experience has been with these specific laptops? (or at least Toshiba or Sony in general) I would like to have Fujitsu as an option, but Best Buy does not carry their products. So I am looking at Toshiba, or else Sony if Best Buy does not let me take a Toshiba as a replacement.

Toshiba Satellite S2112

Toshiba Satellite S209

Toshiba P35-S611

Sony Viao PCG-K45

These are the laptops I am looking at for when my lemon is finally approved. (I listed them in the order in which I think is reasonable to expect Best Buy to replace my HP with) If after approving the lemon they come back and tell me they will only replace my HP for another HP, I will hit the &%****$ roof.

I have an update on my progess if anyone is interested. I was at the Richfield, MN store on Sunday and they found an additional 3 service tags on top of my current 7. However, they wouldn't give me any information on them as they are archived, and the tech said he can not open them. This brings my service tag count to 10 since Feburary 2004. At least 8 of these ten are for the same exact problem, which obviously isn't getting fixed. The first two of the ten are actually from Janurary 2004 and Dec 2002, and may not be an exactly related issue. I called around to find out where my laptop is and it was finally "serviced" on Friday 3/11, and shipped out the same day. So from Feb 24 until Mar 11 it sat on some tech's desk out in California collecting dust until they decided to "fit in" working on my laptop. This thursday will be the three week mark for my current (#10) service tag. While on the phone with HP today it was brought to my attention that my serial number does not exist, so as far as HP is concerned, my laptop does not exist. I also spoke with a rather rude customer service rep at 888-BESTBUY today, who got me absolutely nowhere, and refused to let me talk to his supervisor, who was standing right next to him. Instead, she spoke to me through the cust. service rep as a liasion, almost like an interpretor. Terrible PR.

*EDIT:* Well, as this is the internet, I probably shouldn't disclose this information at this time; so I'm deleting it for now...

[...] The poor quality of the customer service I have recently experienced at Best Buy is absolutely _unconscionable_, so I hope this is something that **EDIT**. *My advice to anyone having trouble with Best Buy*: if you feel you have hit a brick wall (which isn't hard) and/or you think you are not being treating in a professional mannor, contact your state's attorney general's office and let them help you resolve your problem with Best Buy. If anything, it will help you save the dozens of hours I have wasted with this issue in recent months alone. I try to be a patient person, but when a problem like this surpases moral limits and I'm not even being treating respectfully, it's not worth fighting the battle alone. The greater the number of situations that come before U.S. attorney generals, the more pressure Best Buy will have to start acting in a professional matter.


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## WendyM (Jun 28, 2003)

deuce said:


> Does anybody have any Viao experience they can share?


I have a VAIO desktop and have had no problems with it. It's always run perfectly and I've upgraded the OS and installed quite a bit of other software and never had anything go wrong, for whatever that's worth.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

WendyM said:


> I have a VAIO desktop and have had no problems with it. It's always run perfectly and I've upgraded the OS and installed quite a bit of other software and never had anything go wrong, for whatever that's worth.


Thanks.

I'm just trying to narrow down a make/model that I can expect years of uninterrupted use from (as best as possible). As the credit I will eventually be getting back is stuck in Best Buy, I want to make sure that I never have to go through this mess again. If buying a computer through Best Buy, I think a service plan is better than no service plan, as problems can easily arise with laptops and the convenience of a store that you can drive to and walk into is unparalleled; but no one should have endure the mess I am in. And judging by the reviews of Best Buy at the Better Business Bureau and Consumer Affairs, running into trouble trying to get things replaced via service plans at Best Buy is not an uncommon thing. (as making any kind of insurance claim is not easy anyway)


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Another update: (I guess this is turning into a Best Buy progress thread...but any information people would like to leave regarding hardware experience with Toshiba's or Sony's will still be greatly apprecaited)

*EDIT:* again...I probably should delete this for now...

[...]If this get's the action I need on this issue, I will finally be able to rest. Hopefully what I have ranted about in this thread will be helpful for future consumers. If you extend patience to the techs, my history (but possibly only my history) shows that they will run around in circles.


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## Ciberblade (Sep 22, 2003)

deuce said:


> Does anybody have any Viao experience they can share?


That would be me 

My last two personal systems have be Sony Vaio's -- and I have not had a problem out of either. More than likely my next one will be as well 

My company had provided me with Toshiba laptops for field firmware updates...and they worked well for what I was doing...I'm on my third one now (other two failed by hardware) First was the Bios chipset...would not detect HD -- the second was it's video controller (built into MB). I don't even use the third one they got me...I just carry my personal around. It's what I'm typing to you on 

So I wouldn't think twice about getting the Vaio over the Toshiba


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Finally, this morning around 10 we got the call from corporate office at Best Buy that I ahve recently been incontact with, and corporate is approving the no lemon. So that is good. I'm not quite out of the woods because the store manager is insisting that I replace my HP with another HP, which I dont' have to do. But if they allow me to go with a different brand, I have no idea what kind of credit they are going to give me. So with that said, without knowing an actual "price" I get to spend, I really can't be sure of what I will be "allowed" to come home with.

Anyway, I was in the store looking at the different models they carry. I am difinately only going with Sony or Toshiba. It looks like it will be much eaiser to get a Toshiba that will work well for me and be "acceptable" in this nogiation with the manager. I am starting to lean more towards a Sony, but that might not be the mostly outcome. I guess I will just see how it goes. From one standpoint it is a free computer, but then again I think I still deserve to make sure I will be getting something that will be reliable, being that the previous computer, which I did pay for (along with the service plan) had little to no operational value.

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the "field" info so far...


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## Dabblingpond (Nov 8, 2004)

Deuce ----if you want to impress that young lady friend get the Sony Vaio
I have had many Laptops this one being a Pcg-Grt100 that I got 18 months ago ---will probably be my last and loving every min with it
Joe


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## pjblevin (Dec 27, 2003)

Deuce: I just bought a new laptop. I wanted a 17-inch. I was gonna buy a Dell, which started at about $1500. But by the time I added all the upgrades I wanted, it was over $2000. I thought......let me check around. I wound up on "ubid" (I'd dealt with them before), and bought a loaded Toshiba 17-inch for a little over $1500. (factory refurbished.....I think that means that it got returned & was being resold.....in any case, it's brand new). It's GORGEOUS. I'm typing on it right now. There's only a 3-month warranty......but since I've never had a PC fail under warranty, I took a shot.

pjblevin


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## sunnidaze2k (Apr 29, 2004)

My hubby has the most incredible Laptop...its the 17" Toshiba... I think its the Satellite 75 Intel Mobile Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz, 80 gig hd and 512 MB RAM with a CD Burner and DVD Player...no floppy though. It's an awesome piece of equipment to use and to look at too! Its a real workhorse and has to be...he's already killed two smaller laptops in the past 4 years. He's an architectural/engineer consultant type so as well as his autocad he has some pretty heavy programs loaded into that thing.


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

pjblevin--Sounds like a great deal. I'd be weary of refurbished laptops with such a short warrenty, but I'm sure you won't have any problems with that. Just curious, what model is it?


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

sunnidaze2k said:


> My hubby has the most incredible Laptop...its the 17" Toshiba... I think its the Satellite 75 Intel Mobile Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz, 80 gig hd and 512 MB RAM with a CD Burner and DVD Player...no floppy though. It's an awesome piece of equipment to use and to look at too! Its a real workhorse and has to be...he's already killed two smaller laptops in the past 4 years. He's an architectural/engineer consultant type so as well as his autocad he has some pretty heavy programs loaded into that thing.


I was looking at that one. I wish I could get that one, but I don't think I will get enough credit, which isn't right...but oh well.


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## pjblevin (Dec 27, 2003)

Deuce: It's a Toshiba Satellite P25. I'm not put out by the term "refurbished" (when used by a manufacturer). I think it's code for "we got this thing back from the retailer and now we're gonna have to sell it again". There's less and less of this going on than in the past, as the manufacturers have tightened up on the retailers. In any case, my laptop was new.......I've bought other "manufacturer refurbished" stuff and it's always worked out for me.

pjblevin


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## pjblevin (Dec 27, 2003)

Deuce: You got me curious, so I went on the Toshiba website looking for a 17-inch laptop. To me, screen size rules. The 17-inch Toshiba laptops START at $3000, so I got mine at just about 1/2 price.

pjblevin


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## pjblevin (Dec 27, 2003)

Deuce: I just went on the ubid.com website looking for 17" laptops. There's 5 NEW (not refurbished) Compaq 17" laptops for $1529, with 1-year warranty. If I hadn't bought the Toshiba, I would have gone for the Compaq. At the time I bought mine, about a month ago, they only had the Toshiba laptop in a 17" screen. You can get a ton of 14 & 15-inchers for a lot less money.

pjblevin


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

pjblevin said:


> Deuce: It's a Toshiba Satellite P25. I'm not put out by the term "refurbished" (when used by a manufacturer). I think it's code for "we got this thing back from the retailer and now we're gonna have to sell it again". There's less and less of this going on than in the past, as the manufacturers have tightened up on the retailers. In any case, my laptop was new.......I've bought other "manufacturer refurbished" stuff and it's always worked out for me.
> 
> pjblevin


I'm generally not too concerned with "refurbished" equipment, but when it comes to laptops, I'm a little selective, but that's just because hardware problems get be much more serious than on a desktop. The term "refurbished" is one reason I would never buy an emachines laptop, because they use all refurbished and second hand parts. But that makes them really inexpensive. However that doesn't make them bad laptops; I know several people with emachines laptops that haven't had any problems. hardware problems can't be predicted and can happen to any machine.


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## rlw (Mar 12, 2005)

I have had nothing but good luck with Dell laptops even the low end ones. But for 1600 to 1800 you could get a real nice one with all the trimming. I got my my current 5160 for less than 1000 it ran like crap from the factory but with more memory a fresh OS reinstall and dumping the Mcaffees it runs like a champ. There is just something about doing a real install instead of a quick clone that lets them know that you care


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## deuce (May 26, 2001)

Remember how I said I would never buy an eMachines laptop? (or eMachines anything) Well...I have an eMachine m6805 notebook now. What happened with the Best Buy situation is I had to contact the VP of corporate strategy and get him involved. Upon hearing of what had been going on, this guy was nothing short of outraged and corporate got involved to get it replaced. Within a few hours of the email, the lemon was approved.


So, after some difficulty with the store manager, I got the HP replaced with a Toshiba, but my dad is going to use that and trade me for his eMachine. It really isn't a big deal; anything is better than that HP. This eMachine is actually a nice unit and after a year hasn't had any problems, so I guess we'll see. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope it stays that way. 


So, thanks for all the "consumer reports". We ended up going with a Toshiba, and wow, that thing is one nice notebook.


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## Ciberblade (Sep 22, 2003)

Glad it worked out :up:


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## Irideaduc (Apr 6, 2005)

I have a Vaio PCG-K45 laptop. It's great so long as you don't plan on moving it from your desk. It should be considered a desktop replacement and only the fit and strong should attempt to move it - it's very heavy.
Oh, you'll also need a set of earplugs to go with it and keep the window open for adequate airflow - the fan is louder than most rock concerts.
Apart from that it's one of the best laptops for the money with a screen that rivals most HD television sets when watching DVD's.


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