# Offensive title to this forum



## Slrman (Feb 25, 2006)

Maybe as a newbie here, I should stay quiet. But saying that Mac users are "fruity" and that Macs are not "real computers" Is not only insulting, but reveals an ignorance that makes one question whether the writer knows anything worth listening to in the first place. 

Is this the attitude I am to expect from what would seem to be a place for serious discussion? Maybe I should cancel out right now.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

I would never presume to speak for the owner of this site, but I can guarantee you one thing; this is the best tech support site on the net. What makes it so is the people who populate it. Actual personalities, with actual feelings and some have a more attuned sense of humor, shall we say. 

Did you check out any of the sub-forums under Macs? There are some very knowledgeable people roaming around in there, and all through these halls.

Welcome to TSG. I hope you stick around. It's fun, and I for one never get tired of helping people. Lord knows I need to give back some after all the advice and assistance I've taken from here.

v


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

I choose not to get bogged down by labels others apply. If you choose to do the opposite that's your prerogative.


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## Shamou (Oct 17, 2005)

Welcome to TSG Slrman... This is a wonderful site... and you could become addicted to it very fast... so, I suggest that you hold your judgment for a while... get to know us... and maybe, we'll have the pleasure of your company for a long... long time...


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## Slrman (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree that this is a wonderful site and a great service to many. Maybe I am being too sensitive but lets ask ourselves. If we described PC users as "Poor people that, out of ignorance, are content to use second rate computing equipment" and made derogatory remarks at every opportunity, how would they react? 

To me, such remarks are unprofessional and unworthy of a site such as this. I have been in the computer industry off and on since 1968 when I started as a customer engineer (repairman) with IBM. As a free-lance technical writer I used Macs and PC's side-by side for many years. I can state from experience that Windows is entirely derivative from the Mac OS and always will be. 

I actually have an early photograph of Bill Gates in his office with a Mac in the background next to a Windows system.

As far as being "real computers" or Macs "only being good for graphics" that shows a real ignorance of how computers do what they do. It is all crunching 1's and 0's, be it spreadsheets, sonatas, or slipcover designs. A system that does one well, can do it all well. Dem's da facts folKS. 

Soapbox mode off!

Thanks for the welcome and I hope to be a frequent visitor and sometimes contributor.

Jim Smith
João Pessoa, Brazil


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## Wolfeymole (Jun 18, 2005)

I think you have missed the point of the description, (Fruity) Sirman which to my mind is intended to be a literal aspect rather than an inference of sexual orientation.


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## Yankee Rose (Jul 14, 1999)

Actuallly, I have always thought the forum description is just outdated. Apple did away with the "fruit" colored iMacs several years ago. 

Something along the lines of a reference to their cat code named OS X releases would be more appropriate. Most serious Mac users see the reference to the fruit, and realize this site needs an update on that forum description. 

I'm not offended by it. Just amused.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

I always that it was a rather clever pun on the name of the company.


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## [email protected] (Nov 11, 2005)

hold on! An Apple is a fruit. Is that warp years ahead to say fruity. That has got you so bent you're willing to stop reading the posts? I'm trying to grasp your angle here. I don't get it.


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## xgerryx (May 16, 2003)

Slrman
Post a link to the offending thread so we can have a look at it.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

xgerryx: he/she is referring to the title of the mac thread itself, 'for our fruity users', I believe.


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## Slrman (Feb 25, 2006)

After many years of using Macs and PCs side-by-side, I am really kind of tired of the juvenile put-downs from PC users that really don't know what they are talking about. I expected better from this site. But it seems that, when you have no facts and logic, put-downs and personal insults are the only thing left to do. No biggy, really. Just an observation of an unexpected attitude in a place where I expected better.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

I choose not to get bogged down by labels others apply. If you choose to do the opposite that's your prerogative.


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## emoxley (Jan 6, 2004)

I see where Slrman is coming from........
"For our fruity users who prefer Macs over computers." This is copied and pasted from the forum heading. It is very insulting, the way it is worded. I never noticed it, until this thread. TSG should be ashamed! But, I guess there's one in every croud......


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## Slrman (Feb 25, 2006)

VegasACF said:


> I choose not to get bogged down by labels others apply. If you choose to do the opposite that's your prerogative.


Who said anything about being "Bogged Down"? That is your perspective, not mine. For my part, it was simply an observation. If anyone is "bogged down," it is the PC users who do not understand that everything they like about Windows was copied from a Macintosh OS. Often, when someone does not understand something their only reaction is to denigrate it, be it an operating system or a casual comment.


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## belithrawien (Aug 6, 2003)

Well, I have used both and found no offense personally in the title. I assumed it was a reference to the "apple". No big deal. However, you seem offended enough to create a thread to vent your views. I think as you posted above, you are being too sensitive.


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## Rockn (Jul 29, 2001)

Slrman said:


> After many years of using Macs and PCs side-by-side, I am really kind of tired of the juvenile put-downs from PC users that really don't know what they are talking about. I expected better from this site. But it seems that, when you have no facts and logic, put-downs and personal insults are the only thing left to do. No biggy, really. Just an observation of an unexpected attitude in a place where I expected better.


I guess the self-deprecating "switch" ads on Apple's web site don't bother you at all? The people posting the switch testimonials make themselves out to be absolute morons. I have used Macs in the past and I really don't see anything special or unique about them. You need to take a pill and get off yer high horse!


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

beginning to think this should be moved to CivDeb....


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## Rockn (Jul 29, 2001)

valis said:


> beginning to think this should be moved to CivDeb....


CivDebate wouldn't be a proper fit either.


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## Shamou (Oct 17, 2005)

Rockn said:


> CivDebate wouldn't be a proper fit either.


How about "Joke/Humor Time"


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Oh boy...............


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

AcaCandy said:


> Oh boy...............


YUP, 
This one seems to be going nowhere in a hurry.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Slrman said:


> Who said anything about being "Bogged Down"? That is your perspective, not mine. For my part, it was simply an observation.


Then let it go. It is what it is. Is it mildly offensive? Sure. Does that prevent me from helping people and being helped by people here? Not in the slightest.



Slrman said:


> If anyone is "bogged down," it is the PC users who do not understand that everything they like about Windows was copied from a Macintosh OS. Often, when someone does not understand something their only reaction is to denigrate it, be it an operating system or a casual comment.


People fear what they don't understand. So be it. As for the copying...

It is _Apple's own fault_, and was _completely_ legal, thanks to a contract the two companies entered into in 1985. This Agreement between Apple and Microsoft licensed the right to use the visual displays generated by Apple's Lisa and Macintosh GUI programs which appeared as derivative works in Windows 1.0. As a result, to the extent that later versions of Windows use the visual displays in Windows 1.0 (which came from Apple), the use was authorized. Apple entered into this Agreement _willingly_. As the district court explained:



> Had it been the parties' intent to limit the license to the Windows 1.0 interface, they would have known how to say so. Instead, the "derivative works" covered by the license are identified as the "visual displays" in the Windows 1.0 interface _*and not the interface itself*_. And there is nothing in [that agreement] that indicates that it was intended as a product license restricting Microsoft and its licensees to the use of the Windows 1.0 interface as a whole.


(emphasis supplied)

_Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corp._, 717 F.Supp. [1428] at 1430-31 [(N.D. Cal. 1989)]. On appeal, the Ninth Circuit affirmed the above ruling, and, furthermore, found that Apple received valuable consideration for the Agreement: the right to use and license any new displays created by Microsoft within five years, together with Microsoft's promises to delay release of an IBM-compatible version of Excel and to release an improved version of Microsoft Word for the Mac. _Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corp._, 35 F.3D 1435 (9th Cir. 1994).

Apple tried then to rely on parol evidence to prove that they couldn't have meant what the contract said, but the existence of a merger clause in the contract disallowed any extrinsic evidence to modify the Agreement the parties entered into.

This is a great example of bad contract drafting/proofing on Apple's part. Did Microsoft copy Apple's GUI? _Absolutely_. Was Microsoft wrong in so doing? Not in the slightest. Apple gave them the right to do it.


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## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

Sticking to the topic at hand -- feel free to suggest another description for the forum. It was meant only as a joke -- just as our Hardware section is described as "Plug-and-Pray" (rather than "Plug-and-Play").


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Thanks Mike


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## buck52 (Mar 9, 2001)

*slrman* unbelievable...



AcaCandy said:


> Oh boy...............


I promise to refrain...

buck


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## Slrman (Feb 25, 2006)

I was only making a comment. It seems it is many other people that persist in making a big deal out of this. I am sorry I said anything. In fact I am sorry I even came to this site. Seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes here . I'm gone. I know you'll be happy. So am I.


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

wow.


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## Shamou (Oct 17, 2005)

Slrman said:


> I was only making a comment. It seems it is many other people that persist in making a big deal out of this. I am sorry I said anything. In fact I am sorry I even came to this site. Seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes here . I'm gone. I know you'll be happy. So am I.


Being a member of TSG is a privilege not a right... and I believe that you are about to loose it.


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## help4me (Oct 29, 2005)

Slrman said:


> I was only making a comment. It seems it is many other people that persist in making a big deal out of this. I am sorry I said anything. In fact I am sorry I even came to this site. Seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes here . I'm gone. I know you'll be happy. So am I.


I find your post offensive! And your attitude as well! You've been here for two days, and are going to call people names! HOW DARE YOU ! Lighten up, and join the fun. Get a sense of humor SLRMAN! If you don't like the forum description, then suggest an alternative or be quiet.


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## VegasACF (May 27, 2005)

Slrman said:


> I was only making a comment. It seems it is many other people that persist in making a big deal out of this. I am sorry I said anything. In fact I am sorry I even came to this site. Seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes here . I'm gone. I know you'll be happy. So am I.


Methinks the [person] doth protest too much. I see little arrogance here. Some (perhaps misunderstood) attempts at humor, but not much arrogance.

Probably wouldn't have been too good a fit here, anyway. I think _most_ of the people here don't get too personally invested in such things. It's just a handful of words. Like I said, I don't get too worked up about it, even though it is something of an insult. If I did I probably would have left long ago, too.


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## Deathblow (Oct 7, 2003)

I guess trolls like fruit.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I wonder why he didn't find 'plug n pray' offensive?


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Maybe it's the Brazilian sun?


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

Slrman said:


> I agree that this is a wonderful site and a great service to many. Maybe I am being too sensitive.
> 
> Soapbox mode off!
> 
> ...


wonder what happened between that and calling us names? 

My grandfather used to say that if you loaned someone twenty bucks and never saw them again, it was probably twenty bucks well spent. For an old coot, he was pretty quick with the cliches.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

maybe there needs to be a new site for uncivilized debate  


I guess people can't agree to disagree without taking it personal. 

Think it is time to close this one??


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## valis (Sep 24, 2004)

think it was time to close this one about, lessee, 36 posts or so ago.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Mike asked for other suggestions, so, if anyone wants to email him or pm him with suggestions (or myself or Cookiegal) although I prefer email as my pm box is always full.....go for it.

Otherwise, yeah, it's probably time to shut this one down before it turns into a pc vs. mac debate. Didn't I shut one of those down earlier? 

Hopefully it's not a full moon tonight 


Closing thread.


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