# Linux instead of Win 7?



## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

I have an older Noteobook supplied with Win 7 wich gets a new SSD. I do not want to use Win 7 anymore because of the support / updates ending next Januar.

Can / should I use Linux now? Can I go on using all of my programs then? Does Linux have a firewall, an antivir program?


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

Generally speaking windows programs do not work on Linux but many have the Linux equivalent
On a basic installation a Firewall and AV are not included but the firewall can easily be activated via the terminal
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/linux/does-linux-need-antivirus-3678945/

Which Linux do you have in mind and if you are not familiar with Linux I suggest you try running it in ram first to see if you like it
If you wish so to try see this

https://forums.techguy.org/threads/i-cant-disable-secure-boot-to-boot-windows-from-cd.1221777/page-2
my post 16#
Although suggested on that topic for a different reason, than trying it you can use the same procedure to boot your computer and run it in ram.


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## TerryNet (Mar 23, 2005)

Biffons said:


> Can I go on using all of my programs then?


Yes, if all your programs are developed and maintained for most Linux distributions. Firefox and Thunderbird are two that come immediately to mind.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Many thanks!

I do not have any idea of Linux, so I do not know which version I should use.

Thank you for the links.

So I guess, one of the biggest problems is that the (most of them are portable) programs I am used to will not run. Yes, an equivalent, but to get able to use them, to set them up with my own / old settings, I guess, will be an unbelievable effort.

Yes, Thunderbird, Firefox I use, portable. May be one can just copy them to Linux. To set them up a second time, for Linux, bookmarks, own settings, e-mail accounts, etc. would be extremely much effort, I guess.

May be I could use Linux for a second Notebook, additionally. If the effort is not that big to get to know that system and to install it, set it up.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

Are you using Windows 7 Professional SP1 or Windows 7 Home Premium SP1?

If you're using Windows 7 Professional SP1, don't be so quick to dump it.
It's still supported for another year, and it's possible that time can be extended another 2 - 3 years.

----------------------------------------------------------------


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Unfortunately you can't just copy Windows programs into a Linux OS, you have to install them using a Linux compatible version of each program (if they exist).


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Are you using Windows 7 Professional SP1 or Windows 7 Home Premium SP1?


A normal Home version, I would say, I do not remember such like Premium.



> If you're using Windows 7 Professional SP1, don't be so quick to dump it.
> It's still supported for another year, and its possible that time can be extended another 2 - 3 years.


I have read one has to pay for the updates for that version. May be Microsoft will extend the support anyway for both of them, but I would not want to rely on it.



> Unfortunately you can't just copy Windows programs into a Linux OS, you have to install them using a Linux compatible version of each program (if they exist).


So I completely would have to begin from scratch. For each single program...if available for / working with Linux...or an equivalent....I gues I would not survive that.


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

Indeed I agree with my colleague managed - as I said
It would help if you mentioned which programs you have in mind
For instance as mentioned browsers are readily available on all Linux and Ubuntu for instance comes with Firefox
Microsoft Office programs will not run in Linux but the data saved in Office programs can be easily transferred to the Linux Office program

The way forward is to make a complete system image of the present windows 7 setup
and then if you do not like Linux you can easily go back

As I said try it first in ram - you can make that CD if your computer has a CD drive in just a few minutes and boot the computer from it.

Thunderbird should present no problems
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Moving_from_Windows_to_Linux


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-

Actually, you could be in luck.

One way to run Windows apps/progs in Linux is using something called WINE. It's not an emulator; rather, it creates, and runs a real-time Windows environment inside Linux itself.

Running many Windows apps in Linux can be rather a minefield; stuff that runs well under one version of WINE can often quit running under the next release.....then perhaps run (after a fashion) with the one after that. By & large, however, WINE is steadily improving.

Most Windows apps have to be 'installed' to the simulated 'C:\drive'. I have found, however, that many Windows 'portable apps' (especially those packaged by PortableApps.com) nearly always run under WINE. They also don't write to the 'simulated' registry; they are totally self-contained. And these don't 'install' to the 'C:\drive' at all; if you try to do so, they will fail.....miserably. They're meant to run from outside of the 'C:\drive; I run around 15-20 of these from a directory (folder, if you like) in my home, or user directory.

And they mostly run really rather well.....

-------------------------

As for recommendations; well, although I run a lightweight 'distro' (short for 'distribution') called 'Puppy' Linux, I would not recommend it to a beginner. You want something that's not too different from what you're used to.....and for those used to Win 7, Linux 'Mint' is the way to go. It's laid out very like Win 7.....and behaves very much like it, too.

The final point I want to make is that you don't install software like you do in Windows. You do NOT search around the web to find programs, with all the attendant dangers of installing malware by mistake with a 'dodgy' installer. Each and every Linux distribution makes use of huge 'repositories' of software guaranteed to work with that distro. It's kinda like the Google or Apple 'AppStores', and these apps are thoroughly checked for 'nasties', and given a clean bill of health before they're even Ok-ed to appear in the repositories.

Any further questions.....ask away.


Mike.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

There - if I wanted it to use for daily work on the main Notebook - are a lot of programs I wanted to use with Linux, Lightroom, Scrivener, Thunderbird, Firefox, different browsers (Opera, Chrome, etc.), PhraseExpress, Aimp, foobar, FreeFileSync, BeyondCompare, Open or LibreOffice, FreeCommander and very many more.



> The way forward is to make a complete system image of the present windows 7 setup
> and then if you do not like Linux you can easily go back


I use Win 10. On the other Notebook there is nothing installed on, so no back up to do.



> As I said try it first in ram - you can make that CD if your computer has a CD drive in just a few minutes and boot the computer from it.


USB-Stick also? Yes, a good idea, but to get a similar state on Linux like it is now on Win would take months or years, I assume. So it seems there would by no chance. But anyway, I might use Linux with a few programs only on the second computer.

Thank you for the link.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you, Mike!



> One way to run Windows apps/progs in Linux is using something called WINE. It's not an emulator; rather, it creates, and runs a real-time Windows environment inside Linux itself.


That, WINE, is a so called distribution of Linux? Or additional to use with Linux (Mint) (yes, working / behaving / looking similar to Win 7 or 10 would be fine)?



> I have found, however, that many Windows 'portable apps' (especially those packaged by PortableApps.com) nearly always run under WINE.


And I could copy (portable) programs (from PortApps) / settings of those programs from Win to Wine or have to set them up again?



> Each and every Linux distribution makes use of huge 'repositories' of software guaranteed to work with that distro.


So each distro has its own programs being offered / running on it. So if a program runs on one distro it might not run on the other.

The repositories, sounds very good, no circuitously searching for programs.

So I had to download "Linux 'Mint". And Wine? And then just install?


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

What does "supported until..." mean? No updates anymore after support ends? One has to install another Linux / new version then?









Very many Mints. How to find the right one? Ubuntu? I had thought that is still another OS. But it is Linux obviously. Very confusing all this.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Hi Biffons 

I see you are considering Linux as a replacement.
Lots of good choices, none wrong, some simply more 'comfortable' depending on how you want to use it.
Mint is a good choice, imo.
At this link you'll find choices less confusing,
https://linuxmint.com/download.php

I've run the Cinnamon 64bit version in the past, so I'm more familiar with it than the other Mint versions.

Linux isn't for everyone. Hope that doesn't scare you away. Unlike Windows, it's up to users for support, and people like the above help out nicely.
There is a new learning curve. But Linux distributions like Mint are now configured in a way that adapting to them is pretty easy.

About Wine.
Not everyone likes it, various reasons.
Yes, it works for many/most Windows apps.
But some Windows apps like PaperPort or Dragon Naturally Speaking don't run or don't run well in Wine.
It's a good idea to do a google search for compatibility to see what will and what won't run in Wine, that you absolutely need.
There are many Linux equivalents, and yet there isn't 100% coverage.

I run a distribution of Puppy from both DVDs and flash drives. I use it for my connection to the Internet. I like it a lot. But that's me.
But I have a financial data base going back about 19 years of PaperPort files that can only be read in a Windows environment, so I'll always need a computer with Windows on it. But I don't/won't need a replacement according to Microsoft's schedule.

I could dual boot.
I could run a Live distro, like Puppy, from a Windows machine.
Or, and my preference, run Windows on a dedicated computer that is never connected to a network or the Internet( which I've always done) for security reasons.......and run Puppy on another computer for everything else I want to do.
My point. Everyone has different needs and uses computers a bit differently.
There is no 'only one good way'.

There is the 'Microsoft way'.
There are the 'many ways of Linux'.

That said, I think you'll find Cinnamon Mint a good place to start a Linux experience. And it may be all that you need.

I'm a Firefox fan. Have been since almost it's beginning.
It looks and feels the same in both Windows and Linux.
Since I spend most of my computing experience on the Internet, it's spent looking at my browser and there is no difference in appearance or usage, whether in Windows or a distro of Linux.


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-



Biffons said:


> Very many Mints. How to find the right one? Ubuntu? I had thought that is still another OS. But it is Linux obviously. Very confusing all this.


Unfortunately, you've kinda hit the nail on the head. The single biggest complaint about Linux from many 'newbies' is that there's too *much* choice! In Windows, you're used to having only one way of doing things; the standard desktop is all you get.

In Linux, there's often a hundred and one ways to set things up to your liking. At least a dozen different DEs (desktop environments). Dozens of filemanagers. Dozens of text editors. Several different apps for accessing the apps in those repositories.

And then there's the problem that beginners have trouble determining what Linux apps are equivalent to their Windows counterparts, due to the funny-sounding names!

Have a read of this; it explains the difference in philosophy between Windows & Linux really rather well:-

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Yes, it can be a rather steep learning curve.....which is why a lot of people install Linux alongside Windows, so that they can boot into either one, and learn Linux at their own pace until they feel happy with it. (Unless you're like me, of course. I'd run XP from day one until EOL, and was fed up to the back teeth with Windows. I wiped Windoze out of my life, and dived head-first into the Linux experience, overnight.....)

It worked for me; I've always had an enquiring mind. But many folks are so used to Windows, and the thought of trying a different OS can seem a huge step, and a frightening one at that. When all's said & done, an OS is simply a mechanism for running the apps & programs that 'sit on top of it'. Never forget that. And Johnny's right; Windoze and Linux are, strictly speaking, best kept apart.....on separate machines.

There's nothing magical about it. Mint 'Cinnamon's a good choice. If I was a beginner, I'd feel right at home with it.

Mike.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Hi Johnny,

Thank you for the link.

Not a (real) replacement acutally, I mainly will go on using Win 10 on the "productive" Notebook. The old Notebook is supplied with Win 7, so there is no Win 10 licence for it and the support for Win 7 will end soon, that is why I now consider to use Linux on the old removed SSD from the "productive" Notebook assembled in the old Notebook. And so I could start smoothely, try some / less (of my old) programs at the beginning and see what happens. I haven't used Win 7 since years anymore but it is all the same to me, I guess, which Win OS I use.



> Linux isn't for everyone. Hope that doesn't scare you away. Unlike Windows, it's up to users for support, and people like the above help out nicely.


I have never asked Win for support, but only users in forums, so that would not matter.



> I run a distribution of Puppy from both DVDs and flash drives.


Not installed? Isn't it much slower then?

I guess, one cannot just exchange the versions, WINE and Puppy and others, if installed on a computer. Besides of running them from different USB-Sticks (or the same one, multibootable?). And one could run the same / identcial distros on USB-Sticks on different computers? So the identical, same distro on the same USB-Stick working for an Acer Notebook also works with an Asus?



> That said, I think you'll find Cinnamon Mint a good place to start a Linux experience. And it may be all that you need.


Without WINE? Or can WINE be used additionally to it?



> I'm a Firefox fan. Have been since almost it's beginning.
> It looks and feels the same in both Windows and Linux.
> Since I spend most of my computing experience on the Internet, it's spent looking at my browser and there is no difference in appearance or usage, whether in Windows or a distro of Linux.


That is good (not because Win is a great OS, but I would need no new knowlegde for Firefox). So when the portable Firefox from PortApps will work on that Linux I just could copy the settins from the Firefox on the old Win?

Thank you very much!


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for the link.

Yes, huge and frightening, confusing. But as I now know I just can start with Cinnamon or / and WINE (or may be Puppy additionally), installed on the old Notebook or / and from a USB-Stick and try my old programs (one by one) and may be new (Linux) ones, it actually sounds like if it can be done quite easily (but may be I am wrong of course).

So I just would start wirh Cinnamon, download it, install it and try some old programs or is there anything speaking against it? Or run it from a USB-Stick.

Many thanks!


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> Hi Johnny,
> ......................
> Not installed? Isn't it much slower then?


Puppy run as a Live OS, is copied into memory when booted up.
The DVD version takes a minute or so longer than the Flash Drive version, but because Puppy is copied in to memory, it runs faster than a Windows install. A lot faster.
I run my Puppy with out a hard drive 



> I guess, one cannot just exchange the versions, WINE and Puppy and others, if installed on a computer. Besides of running them from different USB-Sticks (or the same one, multibootable?). And one could run the same / identcial distros on USB-Sticks on different computers? So the identical, same distro on the same USB-Stick working for an Acer Notebook also works with an Asus?


I share my Live Puppy on a DVD among several different make and model computers with out problems. The only issue I've found is the network driver is different from computer to computer but Puppy can re-install from with in.



> Without WINE? Or can WINE be used additionally to it?


Never tried Wine on Mint, but it should work.
I'm simply not a Wine user.



> That is good (not because Win is a great OS, but I would need no new knowlegde for Firefox). So when the portable Firefox from PortApps will work on that Linux I just could copy the settins from the Firefox on the old Win?
> 
> Thank you very much!


I'm not familiar with the portable version of Firefox, but when I migrated from Win 7 to Puppy, I simply copied and pasted in the 'profile directory' and double checked my settings in 'preferences'.

Good luck with what ever you decide 

John


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

To repeat my earlier advice
I most strongly recommend that you make a full image of your system as at present, before trying anything - except running a Linux in ram
I see this as vital.
If you find you do not like whichever LINUX you choose - the image will allow you to go back to as is now, with the minimum of difficulty
Trying to recover as now without the image will at the best be hard work


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## plodr (Jun 27, 2014)

Yes, I never recommend any one install linux on a usable computer until they have run several different live linux USB sticks and see what likes the hardware and what is easy for that person to use. (What I like, you might hate. I'm not a fan of Ubuntu nor puppy.) 
I learned linux by running live. When I'd get frustrated, I'd boot into Windows, do some searching and reading and asking questions.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Hi John.



> I share my Live Puppy on a DVD among several different make and model computers with out problems.


I would have thought that could not work because of the different hardware.

Many thanks!

Do I understand it right, all I have to do is to download and to install Mint, 64 bit (from here: https://linuxmint.com/download.php) or run it from an USB-Stick? Or is there a special live version? And may be add WINE to it additionally? That is it? No drivers to install or such?



> To repeat my earlier advice


Yes, yes, I had understand, sorry, I tried to say earlier that there is nothing that could be imaged because I have an empty SSD for the old Notebook. Or do I miss anything?

So running Linux in the RAM might destroy, break the OS installed or / and anything else?


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Most Linux 'distros' already have a browser like Firefox built-in. Also you can try out many of them without installing them onto a hard drive, some run in ram (puppy can) or run from a Usb stick or CD/DVD in what's called a 'Live' session, you can use those without even having a hard drive (or SSD) in the computer.

I like to use the free program at the link below to run different linux distros, all you need is a Usb stick, you run this program then put different linux ISOs into the _ISO/Linux folder it makes on the stick.
When you boot with the Usb stick it automatically shows a menu of all the ISO's and you select the one you want.
It gets a bit more complicated if you want it to remember any changes you make when running the ISO (called 'persistence') but it's usually possible to do that too.

http://www.easy2boot.com/introduction/


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## Macboatmaster (Jan 15, 2010)

I will leave the topic, as you have ample help being offered to you.
Good luck with your decisions whatever they are


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> It gets a bit more complicated if you want it to remember any changes you make when running the ISO (called 'persistence') but it's usually possible to do that too.


So one cannot add bookmarks to the browser which would be kept or dowload e-mails with Thunderbird and store them without a bit more complication.



> http://www.easy2boot.com/introduction/


Thank you, I will try it.



> I will leave the topic, as you have ample help being offered to you.
> Good luck with your decisions whatever they are


Yes, of course, thank you very much!


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> Hi John.
> 
> I would have thought that could not work because of the different hardware.
> 
> ...


All the needed drivers are already in the Linux kernel.
Some of the newest hardware may not have been added yet, but with that older laptop you should be A OK.

The app Allan suggested will install Mint on a flash drive, which is what you want.
Caution, that Live OS can also install Mint on a hard drive, so be cautious and read instruction carefully when booting up from a DVD or flash drive, as an install on either can overwrite your Win 7. You may not want to do that yet.

Wine is a downloadable application that needs no drivers that I'm aware of. 
I'm not sure if Wine runs properly on Live OSes, though.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> So one cannot add bookmarks to the browser which would be kept or dowload e-mails with Thunderbird and store them without a bit more complication.
> 
> Thank you, I will try it.
> 
> Yes, of course, thank you very much!


In Puppy, you'll be given the option to save changes and added apps, when you build the Live DVD or flash drive systems.

With other Linux distros, for USB installs, I've seen the need for installers that specify persistence ( the ability to save ) is added by the installer.
I've had good luck with Unetbootin, Rufus 3.1 and especially LiLi USB Creator.
And then there are distros that just don't seem to like the Live OS concept. Maybe Allan's is the ticket for those?


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Many thanks, John.

So I just will start trying now Mint, easy2boot and go on with the other versions.

Many thanks again


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Using Easy2Boot with Mint (and other Ubuntu based Linux distros) you simply change the file extension on the Usb stick from .ISO to .ISOPERSIST and any changes you make will be remembered.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Okay, thank you!


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

I do not understand how to use easy2boot respectively which download to take (http://www.easy2boot.com/download/):

I want to use it on a USB-Stick on a Notebook without drive (and later I would try to use it on the same Notebook with an SSD) and without having an Internet connection when installing for this Notebook.

Which of those downloads do I have to download and how do I have to use it then?

And I have downloaded Mint: https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=261
To install it, I just have to copy that ISO file to a USB-Stick and install it on a formated drive / SSD?


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Sorry I can't help with 'easy2boot'. Never used it.
Allan or someone else familiar with it will need to help.

To install Mint on a hard drive, from a USB flash drive, you are essentially making a Mint Live USB version and then using the options within that mounted OS to copy and install a working Mint OS on your hard drive.

If you were to burn the Mint iso to a DVD, it would be done as an *image* file, not as an iso *data* file. From there, booting into that disk ( also a Live DVD ) you have options to install Mint to the hard drive.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you, John.



> To install Mint on a hard drive, from a USB flash drive, you are essentially making a Mint Live USB version and then using the options within that mounted OS to copy and install a working Mint OS on your hard drive.


OK, so after copying the ISO (of Mint or, I assume, of (almost) any other Linux version / distro to the USB-Stick I plug it in in the old Notebook, start it and follow the instructions. I then first can run Mint from the USB-Stick (it is a normal one, not a flash drive. Or I could use the SSD in a casing as an external drive via USB.) as a live version and then I could descide to install it or not.



> If you were to burn the Mint iso to a DVD, it would be done as an image file, not as an iso data file. From there, booting into that disk ( also a Live DVD ) you have options to install Mint to the hard drive.


So both of the 2 variants (USB-Stick install / run, above, and install / use from DVD) do the same and it sounds to be like the same kind of installing like Win does (besides of the live variation).

Many thanks, again.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

You're welcome


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ...................... Or I could use the SSD in a casing as an external drive via USB.) as a live version and then I could descide to install it or not.
> 
> .......................


I noticed you edited your post about a minute after my reply.

That's an unusual way to configure an install.
The term 'Live' refers to the concept of mounting an operating system from other than a hard drive or SSD, into memory.
Puppy is one of the few that copies all of the distro in the USB flash drive/DVD or CD, into RAM.
Many Linux Live distros only mount the operating system on boot and do a call back to the media source for applications as they are opened.

What you are doing is creating a working system on a USB hard drive/SSD that can operate on it's own just as if that drive had a SATA connection, only slower than a regular hard drive/SSD install because it's connection is USB. As fast as an SSD is, in your scenario, the USB connection is a bottleneck.
I don't see any value to that effort.
It probably won't run any faster than a USB flash drive.

The idea behind the Mint 'Live' recommendation is to simply determine if you like Mint with out having to remove Windows or dual boot.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Alright, so I will try the USB-Stick variant.

Many thanks again.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

To use Easy2Boot :-

1) click this to download it :- http://files.easy2boot.com/200003345-2733a284c6/Easy2Boot_v1.A8.exe
2) plug in a Usb stick (at least 2GB for Linux Mint alone, more if you want to try other distros later)
3) double-click the file you just downloaded to run it
4) select your keyboard on the left
5) check that the Usb stick is shown correctly in the drop down area, click on Refresh if necessary to show it.
6) click on Make E2B Drive button, it will copy files onto stick, this can take a minute or 2.
7) Copy the Linux Mint ISO file to the _ISO\Linux folder on the Usb stick
8) Restart the computer and make Usb the first boot device in the Bios.
OR get ready to press the key that brings up the boot device menu.
9) plug in the Usb stick and restart. If necessary select Usb from the boot device menu.

It should boot into the Easy2Boot menu. Select Linux (arrow keys then Enter) then select the Mint file.
It should boot into Linux Mint.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you very much!

So that way one can get Easy2Boot working on a Notebook with an OS installed already, one already running. How could I get E2B to work on a Notebook without an installed OS, without Internet connection and with an empty internal drive?


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

I forgot to mention that Easy2Boot won't work on UEFI computers using the steps in my post #35 !

Easy2Boot runs on the Usb stick it's installed on, so does Mint, it will work even if there is no hard drive in the computer.
So will any Live version of Linux, be it on Usb stick or CD/DVD. An advantage of Usb is you can save changes, ie persistence.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> I forgot to mention that Easy2Boot won't work on UEFI computers using the steps in my post #35 !


The Notebook I have running Win 10 on has such UEFI as far as I know.

Sorry for my bad understanding: I assume, I have to copy Easy2Boot_v1.A8.exe to the USB-Stick ánd plug it in in the Notebook having no drive and do the rest of those steps there. Is that correct?


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

It's the notebook you want to use Mint on that counts, does that have a Uefi bios ?


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

No, it does not, as far as I know. It is about 7, 8 years old.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Just mentioning for future use, recent Puppy distributions have uefi capability.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Biffons said:


> No, it does not, as far as I know. It is about 7, 8 years old.


The Easy2Boot instructions in my post #35 should work then. It doesn't matter what sort of bios the computer you make the Usb stick on has.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> It doesn't matter what sort of bios the computer you make the Usb stick on has.


Yes, but actually I would not like to use the Notebook I need for the work, etc. for doing this, testing. Isn't there a method to use the old Notebook only for this?

Doesn't all of the new computers all have such a UEFI? So Puppy would not work anymore with new computers then but only on older, old ones?


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> Yes, but actually I would not like to use the Notebook I need for the work, etc. for doing this, testing. Isn't there a method to use the old Notebook only for this?
> 
> Doesn't all of the new computers all have such a UEFI? So Puppy would not work anymore with new computers then but only on older, old ones?


Newer versions of Puppy have uefi built-in so that it works with both.
It's even an option that exists in the Puppy Menu for making a uefi capable USB flash drive from within Puppy.
I can't speak for the app Allan uses because I've never used it.

The first time I set up a Linux Live USB was with Puppy, called "XenialPup64 7.5-uefi" . I used Rufus for the install. I'm posting from it now.
Rufus seems very intuitive. So much so I never had to read any instructions, meaning it's pretty simple . If I can do it, you can too 

The overview of uefi at this link helps explain why a uefi capable Live USB drive, or even Live DVD works with legacy bioses on older computers:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition

Or just adds to the confusion LOL!

My experience so far....it just works and that's a good thing 

On newer computers there sometimes is a bios option you may have to change if a Linux distro won't boot.
And that is 'Secure Boot'. You may need to choose 'Legacy Boot'.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Newer versions of Puppy have uefi built-in so that it works with both.


Yes, actually that is plausible.



> I can't speak for the app Allan uses because I've never used it.


Yes, actually I should rather have asked, if Easy2Boot would not work anymore with new computers / without BIOS. I cannot imagine.



> Rufus seems very intuitive. So much so I never had to read any instructions, meaning it's pretty simple . If I can do it, you can too


Well, unfortunately I do not seem to be able to do so, I once tryied to make a bootable USB-Stick for Win and failed. But, a good idea, I will try again with Linux.

Thank you for the link.



> On newer computers there sometimes is a bios option you may have to change if a Linux distro won't boot.
> And that is 'Secure Boot'. You may need to choose 'Legacy Boot'.


Okay, if I one time will use the newer Notebook with Linux.

Many thanks!


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ..............
> 
> Well, unfortunately I do not seem to be able to do so, I once tryied to make a bootable USB-Stick for Win and failed. But, a good idea, I will try again with Linux.
> .......................


I've read of Windows users having problems using Rufus to make Windows installation USB drives.
I don't know the issue.
I've never tried that exercise.
IMO, it's more convenient to burn a Window's installation iso to a dvd for cost and storage reasons, just not as quick to install it.

LiLi seemed to have more options and I found it useful for large distributions like Mint.
It's just not as simplistic to use as Rufus.

If you choose to use Puppy, you'll find it easy to install Unetbootin and make Live USB installs from within Puppy. Probably the same with most Linux distros.

If you like Live DVDs, I've found it easier to build a new Puppy from within an existing Puppy install than in Windows.

So things will get better and easier as you get more experience. 

Another thing I like about the small size of Puppy, is that by copying the contents of the bootable DVD or USB drive directly into a folder, and we are talking about 3 or 4 hundred megabytes, not not the vast number of gigabytes of a WIndow's drive image, you have a reproducible Puppy you can simply copy and paste back into a DVD or USB drive as a backup.
No need for any imaging apps like Windows needs.
No need to make a DVD or USB drive bootable, it's already there in the folder you saved


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-

Does your older netbook have an optical drive?

The reason I'm asking is because this all goes a whole lot easier if you use an ISO burnt to a CD/DVD to install Puppy with.....or to try it out.

Also, refresh my memory; what machine is this we're talking about.....and was it originally Win 7? Earlier builds of Windows 7, from what I vaguely recall, didn't make use of UEFI. Make and exact model will help here, a lot.

*IF* you have an optical drive, there's a wee Windows app we always recommend for those wishing to 'migrate' from Windows, but who have to burn the ISO there. It's called '*BurnCDCC*', from Terabyte Unlimited.....and it can be found here:-

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-free-software.htm

It's foolproof. By which I mean that it's really very single-minded; it does *one* thing, and one thing *only*.....it burns an ISO file to an optical disc. That's *all* it does.....so you can't go wrong with it.

Let me have those details about your machine, please.

---------------------------------------

I agree with Johnny about the use of UNetbootin; this thing was originally designed for working with Linux 'Live' images.....and was only ported across to Windows at a later date, when it became clear that there was an upsurge of interest in Linux among Windows users. It's almost foolproof; if you need any help with it, just ask.

Mike.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Hi Mike


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

BTW.....DVD-R are the supported media for Puppy Live DVD installs, not DVD+R and the burn session should not be closed.

BurnCDCC sounds like a good way to go in Windows.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

So may be I should try Lili...last updated 2015...this one: http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/download.

To install Win from DVD and stick didn't seem to be a big difference, no drawback from stick as far as I have experienced it the last time.



> If you choose to use Puppy, you'll find it easy to install Unetbootin and make Live USB installs from within Puppy.


Yes, I will also try Puppy. It is not possible to just put different distros together on a single USB-Stick, I guess (besides of using such as easy2boot)?
I gues, I have to use a none UEFI distro of Puppy for the old Notebook with a BIOS.

Yes, xenialpup64-7.5-uefi.iso has 330 MB. Very easily to handle.



> Does your older netbook have an optical drive?


Yes, it is not an internal one. I have a portable CD/DVD drive supplied with the Notebook to be plugged in in the USB port. USB 2.0.



> The reason I'm asking is because this all goes a whole lot easier if you use an ISO burnt to a CD/DVD to install Puppy with.....or to try it out.


Yes, but copying the distros to an USB-Stick is not that unconfortable and the data removable / changable.



> Also, refresh my memory; what machine is this we're talking about.....and was it originally Win 7?


A notebook Medion akoya S5612 (MD 97930). Yes, originally with Win 7. But it is not installed anymore, I have an empty SSD, 250 GB or so for that Notebook, internal.

Thank you for the link. Yes, foolproofed and single-minded exactly is what I need. So using that will be easier than using a USB-Stick.



> It's almost foolproof; if you need any help with it, just ask.


Many thanks, yes, I will do so.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

If you try Easy2Boot with a Ubuntu based distro like Mint and want persistence, so it keeps any changes you make, do everything in my post #35 then :-

11) On the USB stick run \_ISO\docs\Make_Ext\Make_Ext.exe (in Windows 7 you may have to right-click it and 'Run as administrator')
12) Change the filename to be _exactly_ the same as the ISO file but with *-rw* at the end (don't include the .iso extension)
13) Change the size to whatever you want, in general the larger the better (depending on the Usb stick's capacity).
14) Leave the Volume name and Type at default values (casper-rw and ext3).
15) Click on the [Make Ext File] button and let it complete, can take a minute or 2.
16) On the USB stick navigate to _ISO\Linux\ and change the extension of the ISO file from .iso to .isopersist

Now when you run Mint any changes you make, like bookmarks in Firefox, will be retained and still there next time you use Mint.

http://www.easy2boot.com/add-payload-files/linux-isos/ubuntu-based-iso-persistence-isopersist/


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## plodr (Jun 27, 2014)

I don't use LiLi any longer. Two others seem to work better for me to make live USB sticks: unetbootin and universal installer.
https://unetbootin.github.io/
https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Now when you run Mint any changes you make, like bookmarks in Firefox, will be retained and still there next time you use Mint.
> 
> http://www.easy2boot.com/add-payload-files/linux-isos/ubuntu-based-iso-persistence-isopersist/


Thank you for the link and instruction, I will try out next.

easy2boot is the only program which can start different distros from the same drive?



> I don't use LiLi any longer. Two others seem to work better for me to make live USB sticks: unetbootin and universal installer.
> https://unetbootin.github.io/
> https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/


Many thanks for the links, yes, very easyly to handle, even including downloading the distros.

I now have Mint Cinnamon running from a USB-Stick. Starting lasts very long, some minutes until the GUI is shown. The mouse touch pad does not work besides of the right mouse click button.

How can one connect to the Internet? I do not have any idea of what to enter in "Wifi" in the "Network" window.

When I run any live distros on a computer (with Win installed and one's own data / files) is there any risk to lose data on the Win OS, own data or on a partition or anything else?

And how could I get access to the data on the stick. I have created a folder on my ohter computer, but it is not shown. When I click on "USB Drive" in "Computer" "Unable to mount location" is shown. When I click on "File System" folders are shown like "bin", "boot", etc.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> .................
> 
> I now have Mint Cinnamon running from a USB-Stick. Starting lasts very long, some minutes until the GUI is shown. The mouse touch pad does not work besides of the right mouse click button.
> 
> ...


Hi Biffons 

Your comment that Mint was slow to boot took me by surprise.
I do have a faster computer, but I don't remember Mint booting that slow even from hard drive with an old Intel Core2Duo and 4 gb memory. I don't remember it taking much more than 60 seconds to a desktop.

I downloaded Mint Cinnamon 19.1 64 bit. Varafied the download.
Used Unetbootin to install on a Sandisk 2.0 USB flash drive.

My Acer tower has an I5 Intel about 3.3 ghz and 8 gb memory.
Yes, it would boot faster, but yours seems a bit slow.
What are your computer specs?

Booting Mint on my computer from a usb flash drive:
Measured with a stop watch.
It takes ~4 seconds to choose boot order ( DVD media is first then USB ) 15 seconds to the boot screen and another 20 seconds to a usable desktop.
I set it up with 1gb persistence.

You seem to be having other issues too.
Did you verify your Mint download?


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## plodr (Jun 27, 2014)

Anything booting from a USB stick will boot slow the first time it is run on a computer. It is gathering hardware information.
My live sticks boot slow the first time they are run.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Easy2Boot is the only way I know to boot different ISOs that are on the same Usb stick.

In Mint click on the Network Icon near the clock and it should show any wireless signals in your location, click on yours and then enter your wireless password in the new window. (If you don't see any wireless signals it means Mint doesn't have the driver for your wireless card but that is rare).

Which version of Mint did you get ? What make and model is the laptop you're using it on ?


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Hello John,

I downloaded this file - linuxmint-19.1-cinnamon-64bit.iso - from here: https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php.

Used Universal-USB-Installer-1.9.8.6. On a 64 GB Lexar stick. Without persistence.

Specs of Acer Aspire E 15 (Acer E5-573):











> It takes ~4 seconds to choose boot order ( DVD media is first then USB ) 15 seconds to the boot screen and another 20 seconds to a usable desktop.


I guess, my Notebook is extremely slow generally, a very primitiv one.



> Did you verify your Mint download?


I just did, correct.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Anything booting from a USB stick will boot slow the first time it is run on a computer. It is gathering hardware information.
> My live sticks boot slow the first time they are run.


I saw a countdown from 9 counting down starting it the second time. After zero it needed about 3 minutes to show the desktop.



> In Mint click on the Network Icon near the clock and it should show any wireless signals in your location, click on yours and then enter your wireless password in the new window. (If you don't see any wireless signals it means Mint doesn't have the driver for your wireless card but that is rare).


Ah yes, it works, thank you, the same like it is in Win. The WLAN was switched off before in the Notebook.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

plodr said:


> Anything booting from a USB stick will boot slow the first time it is run on a computer. It is gathering hardware information.
> My live sticks boot slow the first time they are run.


The times I posted were from the third boot, which seemed about the same as the first boot, but I didn't time it.

With Puppy, especially the Live DVD, it's a lot more apparent and even posts a message on first boot that the next boot will be faster, and that it is.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> Hello John,
> 
> I downloaded this file - linuxmint-19.1-cinnamon-64bit.iso - from here: https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php.
> 
> ...


Not that awful primitive, lol,

Good that you did a validation :up:

Give XenialPup 7.5 uefi 64 bit a try sometime on a USB flash drive just to feel the difference.
It should be a lot quicker.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

So you are using Mint on that Acer Aspire E 15 (Acer E5-573) laptop ?


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> I saw a countdown from 9 counting down starting it the second time. After zero it needed about 3 minutes to show the desktop.


You can hit 'enter' during that countdown to continue the boot immediately.
A few seconds saved out of your life


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## tecknurd (May 29, 2018)

If the notebook computer has Ethernet, use that instead of Wifi for now. Wifi not working in Linux is common. Linux doesn't support all Wifi chipsets. Wifi chipsets like Intel and Atheros are best supported. Others are not. This might have changed since kernel version 3 when I put Linux on pause. Linux is on kernel version 5. In Linux, load up gnome-terminal and type "lspci > mypcidevices.txt". Then post mypcidevices.txt in another thread. Putting it in another thread helps with organization for this forum.

It's best to use a desktop to use Linux. When using notebook computers, there is a lot of fiddling to set each hardware up. Using a notebook for Linux and this is your first time, your experience using Linux will be sub-par. I want you have good experience using Linux, so get a desktop computer.

Using WINE when you come over to Linux should never be considered. Not all WINE versions have the same errors and not all Windows programs are able to run. It's best to use a virtual machine like VMware Workstation Player (Free for personal) or Virtualbox to make the transition to Linux easier. Windows can be installed on this virtual machine. Of course you will require another copy of Windows to do so. This may be more expensive, so a multi-boot is better. Use separate drives for each OS when setting a multi-boot. This is when a desktop comes in handy when using multiple drives. Notebooks makes this hard to do.

I'm not sure if this been explained. You can copy your profile for Firefox and Thunderbird over to Linux with no modification. If you have loaded up Firefox and Thunderbird in Linux, you will have to change the default profile to your default profile that you copied over to Linux from Windows. Your email filters, email account information, bookmarks, extensions, and any settings are stored in your profile, so they should work just fine in the Linux versions of these programs. Mozilla.org has information about this and the location that the profiles are located.

On my computers running Linux takes less than a minute to boot into Linux and login -- GUI in all. This is from a hard drive not a SSD. My SSD drive takes a few seconds. Running Linux from USB is always going to be slow. Install Linux to a hard drive will be better.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> So you are using Mint on that Acer Aspire E 15 (Acer E5-573) laptop ?


Yes, I do. I will try now with easy2boot various distros.



> You can hit 'enter' during that countdown to continue the boot immediately.
> A few seconds saved out of your life


Yes, I will do it now, obviously missed that countdown the very first time, cannot remember it.



> If the notebook computer has Ethernet, use that instead of Wifi for now. Wifi not working in Linux is common. Linux doesn't support all Wifi chipsets. Wifi chipsets like Intel and Atheros are best supported. Others are not.


Connecting now works (with Cinnamon), the same proceed as Allan said like in Win, very easy.



> It's best to use a desktop to use Linux. When using notebook computers, there is a lot of fiddling to set each hardware up. Using a notebook for Linux and this is your first time, your experience using Linux will be sub-par. I want you have good experience using Linux, so get a desktop computer.


Thank you. I wished I had a PC but I only have two Notebooks.



> Using WINE when you come over to Linux should never be considered. Not all WINE versions have the same errors and not all Windows programs are able to run. It's best to use a virtual machine like VMware Workstation Player (Free for personal) or Virtualbox to make the transition to Linux easier. Windows can be installed on this virtual machine. Of course you will require another copy of Windows to do so. This may be more expensive, so a multi-boot is better. Use separate drives for each OS when setting a multi-boot. This is when a desktop comes in handy when using multiple drives. Notebooks makes this hard to do.


Yes, I understand, a good point, but the older Notebook is not in use and I do not have a Win OS licence so it can and should be used for Linux (solely), above all I want to have a computer in case of emergency, if I get trouble with the actual Notebook.



> I'm not sure if this been explained. You can copy your profile for Firefox and Thunderbird over to Linux with no modification. If you have loaded up Firefox and Thunderbird in Linux, you will have to change the default profile to your default profile that you copied over to Linux from Windows. Your email filters, email account information, bookmarks, extensions, and any settings are stored in your profile, so they should work just fine in the Linux versions of these programs. Mozilla.org has information about this and the location that the profiles are located.


Yes, I wil try it with the profiles.
Whereto do I have to copy the portable Firefox, portable Thunderbird, etc., my own Data to Linux on the USB-Stick? I had created a folder there but I cannot find it within Linux.



> On my computers running Linux takes less than a minute to boot into Linux and login -- GUI in all. This is from a hard drive not a SSD. My SSD drive takes a few seconds. Running Linux from USB is always going to be slow. Install Linux to a hard drive will be better.


Yes, I will do so after I know which distro works fine for me. But since Linux is loaded to the RAM it should be very fast, if I understood it right.

And to not to have to press F11 or another key to show the boot menu each time I start the Notebook I have to set in the BIOS the USB port to be booted from?


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

How do I start Firefox, Thunderbird? Clicking the exe does not seem to work.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> .............
> 
> Yes, I wil try it with the profiles.
> Whereto do I have to copy the portable Firefox, portable Thunderbird, etc., my own Data to Linux on the USB-Stick? I had created a folder there but I cannot find it within Linux.
> ...


Assuming the portable is configured the same for profiles, and I think it is ......several ways to access the profiles in Firefox are:
A.
1. Open the working Firefox 'Help' menu and click 'Troubleshooting Information'
2. A page opens with a blue menu. Beside 'Profile Directory' click on 'open directory'
3.Save the info.

4. Open new Firefox same way.
Delete contents of the 'open directory' and paste in saved info from the working FF.

B. Click on the 3 hash marks in the upper right hand corner of the FF window.
For what ever reason, I no longer see 'troubleshooting Information' there since going with FF v57.

Either way, be sure to double check 'preferences' in the 'edit' menu. I've found that not all the profile is carried over.

As to 'speed', the 'fastest' in booting will be from a SSD.
Booting from a USB drive is faster than from a DVD.
The 'fastest in operation' will be the Puppy version on a DVD because all of the distro is copied into ram.
An SSD is not faster than ram. Any installed app that is opened is first copied to ram, then opened in ram. Puppy on a DVD skips that first step. It's already in ram.
On USB flash drives, though, installed apps often originate from the USB and copied into ram where they are opened. So opening an app is going to be slower.

But once in ram, an app is going to only run as fast as ram allows .....unless it has to make calls back to the hard drive/SSD.
And this is where Puppy on a DVD can really kick but. The call is made to ram, the fastest source in the computer.
Puppy on a DVD may boot slower, but an application's going to function fast.

If you are curious. Setup a Puppy DVD and a USB version, the same content. You'll notice Firefox opens slightly slower from a USB flash drive than the DVD, but feels identical in usage.

I started out with the Puppy Live DVD but have grown to like the USB version a bit more as I understand it better.

Personally, I'm not a fan of dual booting. I've seen users have problems and I don't like spending time troubleshooting and/or having to re-install because of problems.
I have tried out Virtual Box on a Windows platform and run Linux virtually. I had no issues.There was no possible interference to booting Windows. Mint was the very first I tried out that way and it was relatively easy and safe.

I'm not familiar with your bios.
I have an old Toshiba laptop from the Pentium 4 era, that had no permanent boot selection and I had to use an F key on boot every time I wanted to change boot order. grrr.
If you have the option to change boot order, it will be in your bios. It's probably there.
Often the 'delete' key or the 'F10' key , on boot will open the bios. From there it's simply menus.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Yes, made it with A. Thank you.



> For what ever reason, I no longer see 'troubleshooting Information' there since going with FF v57.


Yes, the same with my actual ESR Firefox.



> Either way, be sure to double check 'preferences' in the 'edit' menu. I've found that not all the profile is carried over.


Yes, there are some settings missing. It seems even the or most of the add ons are available, have still to check if they are working.



> The 'fastest in operation' will be the Puppy version on a DVD because all of the distro is copied into ram.


Which Puppy version / distro is it? I just tried wary-5.5, looks quite...ugl...like a 80ies OS or twenties or so. And I just tried xubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-i386. Cinnamon looks very good actually.
And since the programs and OS are completely copied into RAM it will not be possible to open as it is on Win.



> If you are curious. Setup a Puppy DVD and a USB version, the same content. You'll notice Firefox opens slightly slower from a USB flash drive than the DVD, but feels identical in usage.


Can one just copy the entire content of a bootable USB-Stick (containing Puppy, one or more distros, easy2boot) to the hard drive or another USB-Stick or a DVD and use it then the same way? Or do one has to create it again each time?



> Personally, I'm not a fan of dual booting. I've seen users have problems and I don't like spending time troubleshooting and/or having to re-install because of problems.


So only one OS on one system / drive?

Yes, the boot order is in the BIOS, OK.

At the moment I would like to use Cinnamon generally (on SSD installed and on stick). Very similar to Win, easily to use, I guess (will try out WINE yet). I want to have 2 partitions on the SSD (the SSD has 250 GB totally). How many space should I use for Linux Mint Cinnamon? The second partition is solely for my own data. So if Linux would not start anymore or make problems I simply could re-install it on its own partition (I assume).


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> .............
> 
> ...............
> Which Puppy version / distro is it? I just tried wary-5.5, looks quite...ugl...like a 80ies OS or twenties or so. And I just tried xubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-i386. Cinnamon looks very good actually.


I'm using Xenialpup 7.5
The icons are not exactly inspiring (  ) but they can be changed. Mike is the artist and has some very interesting wallpaper and icons on his Pups. He's the guy to ask about visual aesthetics 
I march on with the default icons and backgrounds of past motorcycles with places visited.
Mint has the utilitarian desktop I like, just add one of my wallpapers and it's a go for me.



> And since the programs and OS are completely copied into RAM it will not be possible to open as it is on Win.


The file structures between the two do not compare. You can access them, but as 'they' say, Linux is not Windows. The files on a Puppy Linux Live USB are easily opened for manual editing.
I don't go there 



> Can one just copy the entire content of a bootable USB-Stick (containing Puppy, one or more distros, easy2boot) to the hard drive or another USB-Stick or a DVD and use it then the same way? Or do one has to create it again each time?


With my Puppy ( usb and DVD ) I keep copies of the install in a folder, saved to another computer for future reference if something goes terribly wrong like a failing drive or bad media.
They can be copied directly to a fresh DVD or USB without having to make the media bootable. The necessary files are among those saved.
I've not tried setting up a USB with multiple distros. So I can't say other than give it a copy and paste tryout and let us know what you find 

Mike has pointed out ( at another web site ) that copying the Live USB Puppy 'save.2fs' folder is a worthwhile consideration. Simply paste it to a new install and you have your 'old' system back.
Or if the 'save' file gets corrupted like from a bad install, just replace it.
You would have to make a new USB install bootable, though



> So only one OS on one system / drive?


With a virtual os setup like VirtualBox, you can have many virtual Linux distros .
What's nice, if you run Windows as you main system (Host), You boot up Windows and can run the virtual OS at the same time, but more like an application than another operating system 
vying for control of the computer. The virtual OS is compartmentalized. You can even run several virtual OS's ( Guests ) at the same time as the Host ( Windows ) is running.
Of course, why would you need to? But you can.



> At the moment I would like to use Cinnamon generally (on SSD installed and on stick). Very similar to Win, easily to use, I guess (will try out WINE yet). I want to have 2 partitions on the SSD (the SSD has 250 GB totally). How many space should I use for Linux Mint Cinnamon? The second partition is solely for my own data. So if Linux would not start anymore or make problems I simply could re-install it on its own partition (I assume).


I'll leave that question for someone that dual boots


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> I'm using Xenialpup 7.5


Ah sorry, yes, you told me, I had downloaded it but removed it then, I thought, it is only usable for UEFI computers, but it isn't? Can I use it on a BIOS Notebook? Although there is written, "especially for old computers".
Edit: yes, it works, just tried, very easily done with easy2boot. But I again do not find a way to connect to the Internet...found it now.



> The icons are not exactly inspiring (  ) but they can be changed. Mike is the artist and has some very interesting wallpaper and icons on his Pups. He's the guy to ask about visual aesthetics
> I march on with the default icons and backgrounds of past motorcycles with places visited.
> Mint has the utilitarian desktop I like, just add one of my wallpapers and it's a go for me.


Yes, that sounds good, a thought of mine (often is) was, when the design is like that the program / OS might work like that.



> And since the programs and OS are completely copied into RAM it will not be possible to open as it is on Win.
> 
> The file structures between the two do not compare. You can access them, but as 'they' say, Linux is not Windows. The files on a Puppy Linux Live USB are easily opened for manual editing.
> I don't go there


Sorry, I have left out some words, I meant: And since the programs and OS are completely copied into RAM it will not be possible to open as many programs as on Win.



> At the moment I would like to use Cinnamon generally (on SSD installed and on stick). Very similar to Win, easily to use, I guess (will try out WINE yet). I want to have 2 partitions on the SSD (the SSD has 250 GB totally). How many space should I use for Linux Mint Cinnamon? The second partition is solely for my own data. So if Linux would not start anymore or make problems I simply could re-install it on its own partition (I assume).
> 
> I'll leave that question for someone that dual boots


Sorry for my bad expression again. I meant, I would use Cinnamon solely on the old Notebook, without Win or anything else. And additionally use it on a stick. Alone or with others.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ........................
> 
> Sorry, I have left out some words, I meant: And since the programs and OS are completely copied into RAM it will not be possible to open as many programs as on Win.


Remember, Puppy is a small distro to start with. Linux apps tend to be much smaller in size than Windows apps.The total size of a DVD is 4.7 gb and even with a full libre Office installed, not filled up.So there is a lot more a DVD can hold and with memory in most recent computers over 4 gb, no issues.
My first attempts with Live versions were on CDs and yeah, there wasn't a lot I could add 
With a USB version of Puppy, the provided distro gets copied into ram, but if you notice in the lower right hand corner of tray there is a green cylinder that shows the size of personal storage. That's the size ofyour 'save' file. In Puppy you can enlarge it as needed to accommodate apps you install, changes you make . I have mine set to 1.5 gb with only 400mb used, and that doesn't count the basic install. So if needed, with my physical 8gb of memory available, I have a lot of memory left to work with in the future.
Of course, much older computers that had 1 , 2 or less gb would be limited as to how much a Live version would sustain, so for them, a hard drive install might sometimes be better.

I don't think you have anything to worry about 



> Sorry for my bad expression again. I meant, I would use Cinnamon solely on the old Notebook, without Win or anything else. And additionally use it on a stick. Alone or with others.


If you are running your OS/distro or distros from a USB flash drive or a DVD, you could consider all of that SSD be your data partition. Keeps things simple. 
Then no matter what USB you plug in, so long as it's a Linux distro, the data is there to be read or worked with.
What ever is convenient for you 

My USB 'save' file was big enough to download a Mint distro I just tried out, and configure a different Live USB flash drive with that Mint 19.1 on it and I don't have a hard drive or SSD installed in my Computer.
Linux....adaptable to your needs.
Windows, they toss in the 'kitchen sink' and you adapt to it.

I do still use Win 7. As a stand alone. With a lot of software on it.
But for internet connectivity, I'm happier with a distro like Puppy.


----------



## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-

The thing to remember about recent releases of Puppy (really, anything within the last couple of years), is that the 'UEFI module' is auto-selectable by Puppy at first boot.

What this means is that if Puppy discovers an 'old-fashioned' MBR type of BIOS, it will set Puppy up in MBR-boot mode. If Puppy discovers a UEFI type of BIOS, then it will set things up in UEFI-boot mode. That side of things is taken care of for you, without user intervention.

I still say for any older type of machine, Puppy takes some beating.

---------------------------------

As for being the 'expert' on aesthetics, well; I'll let a screenshot of one of my desktops speak for me. A picture is worth a thousand words!

This is *Xenialpup 7.0.8.1* (one of the slighter earlier 'betas', prior to general public release of *7.5*):-










This was designed completely from scratch. From hunting the backdrop down via DuckDuckGo (an item from a search for 'Liquid Metal'), to hundreds (if not thousands) of icon searches over the years (I have a very eclectic selection of PNG icons to choose from, and, if I can't find what I want, I'll create the icon myself). I have what I like to call my 'System & Info' panel on the right. At the bottom is a small display from Puppy's own *pWidgets* - a kind of 'mini-Conky' (showing the state of my 'save-file', and local weather) - and above that is the *gKrellM* system monitor. This gives a continuous, real-time readout of what your system is doing.

Here's a close-up GIF at near-normal size.....(the 'GIF-maker' itself was built by *fredx181*, one of our community forum members):-










I have the clock option on this set to a large enough font to serve as my desktop timepiece. The font is a beautiful one I tracked down on FontSquirrel a few months ago, called '*Exo 2*', and now serves as my global font throughout the 'kennels' (I run around a dozen Puppies, all told...)

(That's just one of many hundreds of different themes available. This one's called 'DreamWorks', by Anthony Liekens.....)

http://www.muhri.net/gkrellm/nav.php3?node=gkrellmall&sort=name

Don't let anybody *ever* tell you that Linux is 'boring'..!! Like any OS, you get out of it exactly as much, or as little, as you're prepared to put into it. Unfortunately, many people want to achieve the same effects as those who've put in hours of work.....all for just a few clicks. A lot of themes are available for many distros.....but I've always enjoyed graphic design as a hobby, so I 'roll my own'.

Personally, I happen to like a 'busy' desktop, with plenty to look at. Many folks go to the other extreme, with extremely plain, simple desktops.....and look up everything via menu after sub-menu (cascades of 'em!) Not for me, I'm afraid; this is my one 'hangover' from nearly 13 years of Win XP..... 

Mike.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

OK, good, nothing to worry about regarding RAM and size.



> If you are running your OS/distro or distros from a USB flash drive or a DVD, you could consider all of that SSD be your data partition. Keeps things simple.


Yes, good idea. There is more space left for the own data then. And above all there is no loss of speed.



> I do still use Win 7. As a stand alone. With a lot of software on it.


Because the programs do not run on Linux, I could imagine.

So UEFI in the ISO file name always means the distro also runs on UEFI computers and BIOS computers are included.



> This is Xenialpup 7.0.8.1 (one of the slighter earlier 'betas', prior to general release):-


Yes, looks pretty good, indeed. And yes, a lot of work to get it like that.

And the clock area as well, very nice. The entire desktop.



> Personally, I happen to like a 'busy' desktop, with plenty to look at.


Yes, so do I.

Here is still another gif maker: https://www.screentogif.com/ and one of the best screenshot programs I know, also making gifs and FFmpegs (with upload option): https://getsharex.com


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

This is my Desktop with Puppy Slacko 6.3.2-uefi booting from an Easy2Boot 128GB Usb stick on a N0N Uefi laptop. I changed the Background and the Icons from within Puppy. I like the uncluttered look and the retro style Icons.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Yep, that is blue 

I'll post mine later, have an errand to run.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> This is my Desktop with Puppy Slacko 6.3.2-uefi booting from an Easy2Boot 128GB Usb stick on a N0N Uefi laptop.


Yes, Slacko, I have also noted it a few times, didn't try it yet, will do it now. That looks great.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

Do Menu > Desktop > Desktop Settings then Wallpaper (I used slacko-wall6.svg) and/or Desktop Icons > Theme (I used StandardSvg).


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

XenialPup 7.5 64bit uefi










1982 Yamaha XV920R
Caesar Creek Lake, Ohio early spring about 9 years ago


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Do Menu > Desktop > Desktop Settings then Wallpaper (I used slacko-wall6.svg) and/or Desktop Icons > Theme (I used StandardSvg).


Thank you!



> 1982 Yamaha XV920R
> Caesar Creek Lake, Ohio early spring about 9 years ago


That looks very nice, the motorcycle as well.


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-

Nearly forgot; I never showed you my wee puppy, endlessly romping across my desktop.... 










I'm now in the 'classic' Slacko 570 - this one's based on the older Slackware 14.0. Allan's 6.3.2 is built around 14.2, I believe.

The 'Slacko' (Slackware-based) Puppies aren't quite so feature-rich as the Ubuntu-based Puppies.....but they're more stable, due to Slackware's famed conservatism. 570 is the Puppy I always turn to when I simply want to get on with things.

------------------------------------

BTW, you can add any wallpapers you want. Find an image you like online (I find it easiest to simply Google or DuckDuckGo for 'desktop wallpapers' or 'desktop background images'.) Try to find one in the same resolution as your screen; most wallpaper sites will offer a selection of different sizes.

Download it, then move (or copy) the downloaded image to */usr/share/backgrounds*. This is where the Background selector in JWM Desk Manager looks to find wallpapers. Once there, you can select & apply it in the normal way.

Mike.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

Yes, the ever romping puppy is awesome. I didn't try Slacko yet, I am just downloading it, also very small, 238 MB. Had tried Xenialpup before with the squirrel.

OK, very easiely to handle the wallpapers, thank you, Mike!


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

@ Biffons:-

Just as a little demo of what I meant, here's how I load new wallpapers in Puppy:-






Hope that's clear enough.....

Mike.


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

Further to my post about my wee puppy on the desktop, I thought I'd just mention that the same Fredx181 who built the GIF creation tool, also built the small app that I use to place Puppy exactly where I want her on the desktop.

It's called, quite simply, 'Animated GIF on Desktop'. Fred originally published this as a series of .deb packages (he also publishes, and maintains, the 'Debian Dogs'; based on the Debian Live CD, but heavily modified to look and behave like Puppies); for ease of use, I simply concatenated everything into one simple, easy-to-install .pet package.

Anyone who's interested can find it here:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aXA0Isf_O94EvE6Q063IKuf867uQG_QC/view?usp=sharing

Once installed, you'll find it under Menu->Graphic->Animated GIF on Desktop.

You need to have your GIF image ready to use; once again, it's simpler, probably, to find a suitable GIF image by either Googling, DuckDuckGo-ing, or visiting Giphy (or similar sites). The script also pre-supposes that your GIF image is the correct size for what you want. If you need to modify a GIF image in any way, this site is the place to go:-

https://ezgif.com

Any mod you wish to apply to a GIF image can be performed here.....literally, *anything*. And it's a lot simpler to let their servers perform the 'grunt' work of conversion, trust me!

------------------------------------------------

Once your GIF is 'ready to use', run 'Animated GIF on desktop'. All it does is to produce a 'run script' that positions your GIF on the screen, where you want it, via 'x' & 'y' co-ordinates. The script will be created in /root.

If you want this GIF to start, with Puppy, every time at boot, simply move it into /root/Startup. The contents of this directory are executed at boot time. Left-click:hold->drag to 'Startup':drop->in the wee window, select 'Move'. All done!

-----------------------------------------------

One last thing. 'Animated GIF on Desktop' makes use of 'ffmpeg' to run correctly; 'GIF Creator' does, too. The 'ffmpeg' supplied with older Puppies (5-series, and some early 6-series, used a very old ffmpeg that didn't support some of the necessary options; they were simply never 'compiled-in' at build time) needs to be updated. Fred, once again, compiled a relatively new version of 'ffmpeg'.....and I, once again, took the compiled binary and packaged it up to make it a simple 'click-to-install' item.

The original, elderly ffmpeg - from around 15 years ago! - is around 700KB in size. The new version is considerably larger, weighing-in at around 30MB.....but the way it transforms multi-media stuff in Puppy is quite noticeable. If you'd like to upgrade, you can find both 32- and 64-bit versions here:-

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dy_0usSjPUHXC72oACa7ECMT8h1WdQvO?usp=sharing

The 64-bit versions are only needed for older 64-bit Pups; both Xenialpup64 7.5 and the newer Bionicpup64 (currently at 7.9.8 RC1 status), both have sufficiently new enough versions to make this unnecessary.

Have fun!

Mike.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Nice! :up:


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ...............
> 
> Because the programs do not run on Linux, I could imagine.
> ....................


Actually 2 considerations.
I've always kept business, family and general concerns that identify me, on a stand alone computer. Why take the chance that I may not be better at protecting my data than someone trying to steal it for financial gain?
My first stand alone computer was bought at auction for $150 19 years ago. Win 95 on an Ultra, Pentium 200 MMX. Slooooow! 
So I committed myself on it, to the Microsoft way. 
As a newbie to computing,I needed a lot of hand holding. Self taught mostly, though. Didn't find TSG for several years.
Linux wasn't friendly like it's becoming.

Over the years, I progressed through faster computers, software that became a bit more specialized but MS bound.
I became used to PaperPort as a better filing solution, but it had a proprietary file format ( .max ) no one else used, and nothing under Linux that would open, edit or save a .max.
After 19 years of business and tax filings, I have many thousands of .max files and only PaperPort that works well with them.
Classic trap ahead.
PaperPort was sold to Nuance. Not only did Nuance degrade the app in stability, they dropped supporting the .max format. Sure, newer versions had the ability to convert all the .max files into Adobe .pdf. And consumer complaints confirmed a user could also wind up with a corrupted data base.
That is one reason I keep on with MS Win 7. Well, that and Paperport Ver.8 isn't supported on Win 10. It's even a forced install on Win 7.
The other big reason I stick with Win 7 is that I use a lot of voice recognition from time to time. And it doesn't work well under Wine. Dragon Naturally Speaking, also eventually bought out by Nuance, whose latest versions are probably past DNS's zenith of efficiency. (  )

In the above case, it's just not practical to jump ship. 
I'll keep on using what works best for what I need.

That's why I considered Puppy for Internet connectivity. 
The MS Windows path no longer seems friendly to me with Win 10.
I had issues with the very first rollup security updates with Win 7.
I'd had enough of MS bungling updates. I had been playing with Linux Live CD/DVDs for a while and committed to using SlackO Puppy full time on the Internet, progressing to TahrPup and now XenialPup. That started about 3 years ago.

It's said there is no perfect OS. But I believe Puppy is much better than Win 10 for what I want to do 

I guess that's enough of the Puppy promotion for now


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## Miqw7394 (Apr 1, 2016)

Johnny b said:


> I guess that's enough of the Puppy promotion for now


No way. Never too much!! 

Mike.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Miqw7394 said:


> No way. Never too much!!
> 
> Mike.


LOL!
Okay. 

For those that are tired of constantly investing in the latest and greatest of computing just to stay secure as the current MS Windows goes end of life and security updates no longer provided......
Linux provides an advantageous financial option.
Most Linux distributions are free downloads to use as seen fit.
So there is that in savings.

And Live versions offer another financial advantage.
Hard drives are a consumable over time. SSDs also.
3 to 5 years seems common, some longer some shorter.
But they cost comparatively more than the media used for Live Linux CD/DVD and USB.
A 1T hard drive can cost as little as $50 on sale or $100 regular.

I found that with added software and updates on a Live DVD, I can go about one to one and a half years before I need to replace the DVD with a new fresh one because of space limitations. If I bugger up several discs it's still no great loss.
I buy Ridata DVDs from Newegg, on sale, for $13 per 100 discs.
If I were to consume 5 discs a year ( I haven't since the first year  ) that's a potential time line of 20 years usage for $13. Not bad.

I bought several 16gb SanDisk USB 2.0 flash drives for $5 apiece from Best Buy.
They are reusable. How long they last depends on how many writes and rewrites are performed, so that's hard to estimate.
Since Puppy can be configured not to write back to the flash drive periodically and only for intentional saves and updates, I suspect 5 years may not be unreasonable for a quality flash drive.
So even with the advantages of greater storage and faster booting, 20 years of usage might cost only $20.

And you can apply the above to an already used computer facing obsolescence and yet get good results.

Don't know if you really want to keep that old raggedy computer for another 20 years (  ) but that's what it would cost for storage.
You could even replace it periodically with a cheap $30 to $50 used unit a bit more up to date.

And then there's me.
My first experience with a useful Linux Live CD was with Slax looking on the internet for the reason why Windows 98SE wouldn't boot on a $35 garage auctioned computer I bought, after I installed a new network card. ( motherboard chip and driver issue )
Slax would, naturally boot it, it was Linux after all LOL!
That was then, this is now.
I now am using a recently bought, new leftover Acer Veriton I5 8gb business computer I bought from Newegg, on sale of course, and immediately disconnected the Win 7 Pro installed hard drive. ( the Acer was a $400 unit including shipping )
With XenialPup, this thing really flies


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Hope that's clear enough.....


Yes, of course, can't be clearer, thank you very much for the video!



> Anyone who's interested can find it here:-
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aXA0Isf_O94EvE6Q063IKuf867uQG_QC/view?usp=sharing


Many thanks, great, just downloaded.



> You need to have your GIF image ready to use; once again, it's simpler, probably, to find a suitable GIF image by either Googling, DuckDuckGo-ing, or visiting Giphy (or similar sites). The script also pre-supposes that your GIF image is the correct size for what you want. If you need to modify a GIF image in any way, this site is the place to go:-
> 
> https://ezgif.com


Thank you very much for this!



> Once your GIF is 'ready to use', run 'Animated GIF on desktop'. All it does is to produce a 'run script' that positions your GIF on the screen, where you want it, via 'x' & 'y' co-ordinates. The script will be created in /root.
> 
> If you want this GIF to start, with Puppy, every time at boot, simply move it into /root/Startup. The contents of this directory are executed at boot time. Left-click:hold->drag to 'Startup':drop->in the wee window, select 'Move'. All done!


OK, and the same for every other program, I guess, to be started with Puppy.



> The original, elderly ffmpeg - from around 15 years ago! - is around 700KB in size. The new version is considerably larger, weighing-in at around 30MB.....but the way it transforms multi-media stuff in Puppy is quite noticeable. If you'd like to upgrade, you can find both 32- and 64-bit versions here:-
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dy_0usSjPUHXC72oACa7ECMT8h1WdQvO?usp=sharing


Many thanks for the link.

Thank you very much, Mike!



> I've always kept business, family and general concerns that identify me, on a stand alone computer.


Yes, that is a good idea. But quite a lot more work to separate those, I assume.



> In the above case, it's just not practical to jump ship.
> I'll keep on using what works best for what I need.


Yes, but to find out what is the best for oneself seems to be much work. And using different Operating Systems (at the same time) as well. And to get used to Linux. Thank goodness those distros, Puppy, Mint are very similar to Win.



> I guess that's enough of the Puppy promotion for now


Well, I should have heard that promotion earlier. 23 days ago - after a Win update (don't know if it was caused by it) - the Notebook didn't start anymore, was not repairable (with the Win tools or else by myself), no access to my data, so I bought a new SSD I put in the Notebook and an enclosure to copy the data from the disassambled SSD back to the Notebook to the new SSD and re-installed Win 10 on the new SSD. If I had have a distro running on a USB-Stick I just had plugged it in that Notebook, had started Linux and simply had copied the data to an external drive and re-installed Win on the old SSD without the need to disassemble the Notebook.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> .................
> 
> Yes, that is a good idea. But quite a lot more work to separate those, I assume.
> 
> ...


Not as much extra effort for me as you might expect.
This is of course 'my story' and other's would have differences.
I had already divorced my online usage and personal usage over a decade ago, so my 'drill' so to say was already set and in motion.
You and others may want or need a different plan.

When I jumped to full time Puppy for internet connectivity, things got better. I have more time for myself rather than constantly having to read up on the latest Windows vulnerability, react to it, worry over it, install the latest security update that breaks something, causes a new vulnerability or even bricks a computer.
And over time, all of that has happened to me, even though I'd wait a couple weeks to see what updates were being removed, re-released or with drawn for a work around.
The last straw for me was coming home from a stay in the hospital to watch the security update model change for Win 7 to the Win 10 model, rollups.
After a less than a dozen reboots, one computer refused to boot and the repair disk complained the restore function was corrupted. Only a drive image could restore the damage from the update. The other Win 7 computer slowed up drastically on several reboots, but rather than drag out the pain of the other one, I did a restore right away after seeing the same problem and it functioned properly. This was not a common problem, but a search found others having issues also like mine. Apparently some similar software configuration issues. The later went into closet storage as a backup and the other is now used, but seldom, for testing software packages and playing a few older games.

For me, getting Windows off the internet and switching to Puppy has made my life simpler 
and more enjoyable. A lot easier 

But that's me


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

If you have Puppy on an Easy2Boot Usb stick change the .iso extension to .isoPUP then in Puppy do Menu > System > Puppy Event Manager > Save Session tab > set Save interval to 0 (zero) and tick the Ask at shutdown ... box that appears > Ok

That will make Puppy ask you if you want to Save the session or not when you shutdown, handy if you mess anything up and don't want to save.

You can also use the Save icon on the desktop to save changes at any time.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks, have done. :up:

Works with LiLi also.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> For me, getting Windows off the internet and switching to Puppy has made my life simpler
> and more enjoyable. A lot easier


Yes, I would like to get rid of Windows as well. The biggest drawback of switching to Linux from Win seems to be to get all of your settins, programs and whatever to Linux. I assume, many programs (may be not that many, I am not sure) are not available for / working with Linux but obviously more than I had thought. Some searches show a lot more than I had thought of.



> That will make Puppy ask you if you want to Save the session or not when you shutdown, handy if you mess anything up and don't want to save.
> 
> You can also use the Save icon on the desktop to save changes at any time.


These are super options, thank you.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> Yes, I would like to get rid of Windows as well. The biggest drawback of switching to Linux from Win seems to be to get all of your settins, programs and whatever to Linux. I assume, many programs (may be not that many, I am not sure) are not available for / working with Linux but obviously more than I had thought. Some searches show a lot more than I had thought of.


Are you using the official repositories for the specific distribution you're using?

With Puppy, click on the 'install' icon on your desktop.
Open the tab, 'install applications'.
Choose 'Puppy Packet Manager'
A new window opens up.
Click on the 'tools' icon.
Another window opens up.
Click on the 'update' tab then the update icon.
When the update finishes, you can then see what is available to install when another window reopens..
From there it's simply following the instructions to install.

The basics like Libre Office and Gimp are there along with a lot of names that won't seem familiar.
Often, you might try searching for example 'Linux alternative to *MS what ever*' to find the name of what you want. 
There are sites that keep lists, but I haven't had the need.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> Are you using the official repositories for the specific distribution you're using?


Actually I would say, yes, but I am not sure. What / where are those? How can on recognize them? I will try with Xenialpup.



> When the update finishes, you can then see what is available to install when another window reopens..
> From there it's simply following the instructions to install.


I am not sure about the window. The "Puppy Package Manger v2" window shows up. It looks broken somehow, there is no content in it, nothing shown, it cannot be closed. And the tab "Choose repositories" in the "Puppy Package Manger - Configure" is shown.

...second try with another / new Xenial on another stick, seems to work. The "Puppy Package Manger v2" shows Packages, so all of the programs available here for installation now. I downloaded some, then the download froze, after a second one, no response anymore.

(Portable) Win programs (with an exe file) cannot be installed or executed (bei double clicking the exe)?

Yes, programs not available / findable here I would try to get with Google or so. Thank you.

In the Puppy Manager on the left panel the repositories, does it matter which one of those I choose? ubuntu-xenial-main, multiverse. etc.? Are they all working on Xenialpup?


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

I can only conclude there is something wrong with your installed Puppy distro.
I've not seen anything go wrong with the Puppy Packet Manager unless there was an Internet connection problem and it got stuck in the update process.

Are you sure you waited for the app update to finish before moving to the next step?

As to the distro list that is being updated, on mine I leave Tahrpup unchecked and the rest checked.
Makes no difference which one you download from, simply different points of source that work.


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## managed (May 24, 2003)

EXE files and other executable Windows files won't run in Linux. Some could work in WINE but I've never tried that.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> I can only conclude there is something wrong with your installed Puppy distro.


The ISO has right checksum. And I tried on two different sticks, easy2boot and with Universal USB Installer or YUMI.



> I've not seen anything go wrong with the Puppy Packet Manager unless there was an Internet connection problem and it got stuck in the update process.


The connection worked.



> Are you sure you waited for the app update to finish before moving to the next step?


I waited for a long time at least and I could not see any indication that the download goes on.



> As to the distro list that is being updated, on mine I leave Tahrpup unchecked and the rest checked.


I do not remember to have seen Tahrpup.



> EXE files and other executable Windows files won't run in Linux. Some could work in WINE but I've never tried that.


I do not understand which package I had to download when I want to use WINE. Is there one with Mint or Puppy?

What does it mean when it says the package, distro is supported for 5 years or so. Is it not usable anymore after like Win 7 in one year?


----------



## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ..................
> 
> What does it mean when it says the package, distro is supported for 5 years or so. Is it not usable anymore after like Win 7 in one year?


This is what I see when I chose a repository and the download choices. It helps to type into the search box what you want to bring it up quickly

















As to End of life or Support.
The distro is simply no longer updated for bugs and security. A new distro is often offered by the same source. A different Name but a similar layout.

For the record, Win 7 can be used after EOL, MS simply no longer supports corrections or solutions for bugs and security.
Some people go to 3rd party solutions after EOL.
I have with earlier MS Windows. But the nagging question remains, are 3rd party solutions good enough?


----------



## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> ..........
> 
> I waited for a long time at least and I could not see any indication that the download goes on.
> 
> ..............


There should have been a small popup message saying something like 'ppm successfully updated.'


----------



## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

> As to End of life or Support.
> The distro is simply no longer updated for bugs and security. A new distro is often offered by the same source. A different Name but a similar layout.


So after that time one just has to use the new distro offered then, alright. And obviously it might be there is not offered a new distro so one would have to choose another one.



> For the record, Win 7 can be used after EOL, MS simply no longer supports corrections or solutions for bugs and security.


Yes, it can be used anyway, but - I would think - without security updates it is much to risky, so actually it is not usable may be besides of using it without Internet connection.



> Some people go to 3rd party solutions after EOL.


Which ones?



> There should have been a small popup message saying something like 'ppm successfully updated.'


Yes, after the working downloads there was shown a window with green or so, if I remember it right. That Puppy window was greyed out / milky and kept milky during the downloads not working.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> So after that time one just has to use the new distro offered then, alright. And obviously it might be there is not offered a new distro so one would have to choose another one.


There is always that chance with any company.
Puppy, though, is more of a community effort by interested coders that build to a common theme. What you've probably seen and read of are the most popular, but there seem to be hundreds of Puppy variants because Barry Kauler who designed the first Puppy distro, made it possible for interested parties to make and modify their own versions.
Xenialpup is based on Ubuntu and when Ubuntu brings out a new version, Puppy distros like Xenial often follow up with a new distro based upon the new Ubuntu distro and rename it according to the Ubuntu distro's naming.

A little history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy_Linux

Naming, derived from Ubuntu distros.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
So this is what would be a possible replacement when Xenialpup goes unsupported:
http://blog.puppylinux.com/upup-bionic-beaver












> Yes, it can be used anyway, but - I would think - without security updates it is much to risky, so actually it is not usable may be besides of using it without Internet connection.
> 
> Which ones?



That's one of the catches. As owner of your computer, it's up to you to find replacement security.
TSG can help with suggestions.
I've used Sandboxie from XP to Win 7 with good results.
Firefox as my browser with 4 or 5 important extensions for security....which btw...I also use on the Firefox I have installed in Xenialpup.



> Yes, after the working downloads there was shown a window with green or so, if I remember it right. That Puppy window was greyed out / milky and kept milky during the downloads not working.


Post a screen shot if you can.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

I guess, whenn using such widespreaded distros like Puppy, Mint one does not need to worry that much.

Many thanks for the links and the screenshot.



> As owner of your computer, it's up to you to find replacement security.


Ah I see, you mean Firewall and antivir program. Yes, that would not be such a big problem, I assume, if they will keep working with Win 7. I meant more of security vulnerabilities of Win 7 like they often or sometimes occur as far as I know with Win. And may be other programs might not work anymore after some time, may be Java, Framework, dependencies, etc.

Sorry, what is TSG?



> Post a screen shot if you can.


I had done it, but I do not have any screenshot program on Xeniapup / Linux at the moment.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> I guess, whenn using such widespreaded distros like Puppy, Mint one does not need to worry that much.
> 
> Many thanks for the links and the screenshot.
> 
> ...


You are at TSG  TechSupportGuy

You don't need a special app in XenialPup to take a screenshot.
Just press the keyboard key 'print screen' and you've got an image you can edit/crop and save. From there simply post it when you respond in a thread.

I found the MS firewall to be about the best there was for Windows when using the advanced settings. At least for Win 7. That you would want to keep.
I used the default anti virus. It should be OK for several years beyond EOL.
It's the 'not yet found' buggy software issues and the missed vulnerabilities that will be the main issues. New threats often need new approaches for fixes and MS corporate interest stops when MS declares software EOL ( end of life ) .
That's when the searches begin for 3rd party solutions/fixes. Eventually they dry up as the software in question ages and is used less and less.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

TSG, oops!



> I found the MS firewall to be about the best there was for Windows when using the advanced settings. At least for Win 7. That you would want to keep.


Although there are not any updates (for the Firewall) anymore.



> I used the default anti virus. It should be OK for several years beyond EOL.


Although there daily or very often are updates during the supported period which will not be available anymore after EOL? So new maleware could not be recognized anymore? Or am I missing anything?

So at least the use of Win 7 will or might become more or less risky and effortable after EOL.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> TSG, oops!
> 
> Although there are not any updates (for the Firewall) anymore.


I don't remember any to start with.



> Although there daily or very often are updates during the supported period which will not be available anymore after EOL? So new maleware could not be recognized anymore? Or am I missing anything?


That could apply to the antivirus app MSE. But the virus definitions from MS do seem to continue for several years after EOL.
It would be the antivirus app itself that could cease to be upgraded.



> So at least the use of Win 7 will or might become more or less risky and effortable after EOL.


Tough question. For a diligent user that keeps up on security issues and practices safe browsing, probably not much of a change in risk for several years after EOL.
For the rest of us.....well.....

You asked about Linux alternatives for MS apps.
Here's a link you might find handy:
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Linux_software_equivalent_to_Windows_software


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

OK, may be not that evil after EOL...on the other hand I guess, I belong to the rest...well...so the end seems near(er)...anyway, better having started using Linux now instead of doing it some time after EOL.

Ah yes, that's great, many thanks for the link to the alternatives.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

And just copying the distros / easy2boot on USB to another one or to the hard disk and then to USB-Stick seems to work.

With YUMI it is also possible to run multiple distros / ISOs from a single USB-Stick.


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## Johnny b (Nov 7, 2016)

Biffons said:


> And just copying the distros / easy2boot on USB to another one or to the hard disk and then to USB-Stick seems to work.
> 
> ..................................


Copying back and forth has worked well for me using Sandisk flashdrives.

But I just tried it out on a Kanguru brand flash drive with a write switch and it wouldn't boot.
Only Rufus would make it bootable and I had to install Puppy from a fresh iso file.

So there is that exception.


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## Biffons (Sep 12, 2014)

And suddelny the easy2boot USB-Sticks are not bootable anymore, ldlinux.c32 couldn't be loaded or so is displayed.

Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-29-1.2 looks very good as well (besides of the flickering display.


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