# Old Computers



## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

I came across this website and thought I would share it with you.

Old Computers

This site is full of useful information and links. If your like me and still own one of the old systems you should find in very interesting.


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

Not bad for newer computers but if you want really old computers go here.

http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers/History/

I was the owner of a home computer (SWTP) that was so old that it became valuable again and I sold it on EBAY for what I had originally paid for it. Lets see you do that with a used PC now!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I have some very old printers which i like
to play with sometimes.
Win will still work most of the dot matrix types.

I have one which i am having trouble with,
made by TELEX its quite old and uses
a roll of paper, its called a teleprinter.

John


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

Hi John 

I see you have one of those new dot matrix printers. Not much to them. Interface, paper feed, carriage moter and print head. For a real challange try working on a Teletype, 95% mechanical and one moter runs everything.


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## bigh47 (Dec 8, 2001)

John- 
75 baud flat out. Those Telex machines were amazing we used to have tins of paper punched tape. You fed them into the tape reader leave for few hours and come back to a picture of a Saturn 5 or Eifel Tower made up of letters, cool then. I don't think I am in contact with any of the old teleprinter repair men any more I'll ask at work. I'll let you know. Any body still got any other early stuff still working?

Howard


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Computer wise,
the oldest thing i have that still works
is an old Nascom built around an Intel Z 80
hand made from back when
most of them were hand made.

Uses a TV as a monitor.

John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

I just wanted to let you guys know that you can still find replacement parts out there for some of the old stuff. I had to replace the sound chip in my 64 last year. I just did a web search and there it was. 
The only thing I haven't been able to find in a printer interface card (PIC) for my Epson Home Writer 10 that will alow me to uses it with my PC. It still works great with my C64 though.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Use with your PC?
I take it you mean run it using windows, yes?

wont it run as 'Epson Compatible'

Thats in my list.

I run quite a few of the old dot matrix types as
Epson Compatible, there are two choices, 7 pin and 9 pin.
There is also Generic Text Only,
Which i use for an old AMD 3000 cos i cant find drivers.

Have you tried these ?


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

john1 

His problem is that the Epson did not come witha standard parallel interface so it won't connect to a PC. If you are looking for parts a good place is EBAY under Vintage computers. Lots of C64 and other things always being sold there. If you are looking for repair advice on old printers etc. try the news group alt.folklore.computers

WARNING If your product is not at least 15 years old do not post to this group. It deals with OLD stuff back to mainframes ETC.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Lurker,

Do you mean that the HomeWriter10 didn't use a parallel
connection, or that it didn't use a standard parallel
connection, or that the plug fitting is non standard?

Or maybe that it just didnt come with it,
and they are hard to get now?

Im not familiar wth the HomeWriter10, but most Epson
stuff uses standard ASCII.

I suppose it could be intended to run from a serial
feed, if so then i would think a program could do that.


Hi John Sparkman,

Could i ask you a couple of things about your Epson?
It works OK from your Commodore64, yes?
I would have thought that a program could deliver
the signal in a suitable form for it.

Could you tell me a little more about it?

John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

Hi John1.

Yes the printer works great with my C64. The printer cable is different from the one on my PC. instead of a serial cable it uses something called a (PIC) Printer interface card. It has a round plug that connects to the computer and a card at the other end (about twice the size of a credit card) that plugs into a slot on the back of the printer. 

I'll take a pic of the printer and post back tomorrow.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Cheers John,

I'll check back tomorrow.
Have you just described how the Old Epson
is arranged with the commodore 64 ?

John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

Yes. What I described was how the printer hook up to my C64. The manual says that the printer can be used for different types of computers depending on the printer interface card that is used.

See attachments


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi John,

Well the picture isnt clear enough at this end to be sure,
but i would say that 'round plug' is what we call a DIN
plug in England.

DIN plugs were, and still are mostly for use on audio stuff.
Mainly tape recorders, but they crop up on lots of things.

I would imagine that your Commodore could use a tape cassette
to record stuff, they usually use a Minature Jack plug or a
Sub-minature Jack plug for the connection to the tape machine
and a DIN plug like that one to connect to the computer.

Many years ago someone told me about a printer which would
print out a printed page from a cassette recorder. This
puzzled me for many years and i couldnt find out more about
it. No one seemed to know of such an arrangement.

I am now wondering if you send the printers signals to the
tape cassette instead of the printer, would you hear them on
the playback?

Would the printer operate from the tape cassette ?

The little box on the lead which goes into the printer
could be to convert serial from the C64 into parallel
for the printer. But im only guessing.

Personal computers from around that time were starting to fit
separate ports just for printers, but not all manufacturers
were doing this.

Maybe Epson offered this add-on as an option. Ive never seen
one before, maybe it would run a printer from a cassette ?

Do you know what this box does ?

Regards, John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

My C64 came with a tape drive but the connection was a little different though. The plug was indead round but it has more pins in it. 
I never used the tape drive though. I always used two 5 1/2 " floppy drives that were hooked up with the same cable used for the tape drive. All you had to do was hook the two drives up in seires and use one for the program you were running and the other to save your work to. You could also load programs from either drive, it all depended on what you typed to load the program. For example if you typed "LOAD (*),8,1" the computer would load from the frist drive in the seires and if you tryped "LOAD (*),9,1" it would load from the second drive.

As far as the printer cable goes I'll just have to contact EPSON and see what they have to say. I'll also check with E-Bay and see what's there. I know EPSON made a printer interface card for the IBM compatables of the time. 

By the way, I bought my C64 in 1989. It was used and I got tons of programs and game, two disk drives, two joy sticks for games, a tape drive, a small color TV to use as a monitor, and printer all for $200.00. I had to replace the sound chip in it though and that was very hard to find. It all still works like new to this day and I still use it from time to time to play a few games on.

John


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

john1 

In the early PC days of computing the home machines did not use standard serial or parallel interfaces like they do today because there were no set standards, I had an epson hooked up to an ATARII 800 something like the above DIN interface. When I hooked the printer up to an IBM compatable PC I had to buy a different interface that was installed into the printer in order to use it. You were able to buy different interfaces from epson way back then. I kind of doubt if these are still for sale from epson anymore which is why I suggested Ebay. You can probably pick up an entire used printer there for the cost of a new interface.


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

I checked out E-Bay with no luck. I also did a web search for Epson printer interface Carts and the only one I came up with was one for an Epson Homewriter 10 to hook up to an ATARII 800. Nothing for an IBM compatable PC.
One of these days, about the time our PCs are fully voice activated and controlled, I'll be in a flee market somewhere and run across one.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi John,

I think that Epson uses a parallel ASCII feed,
probably 7 bit, maybe option on the 8th for parity.

My Win95 setup can be arranged through 'Add Printer'
to deliver straight ASCII, with or without parity,
using a com port.

For Win95:
Start>Settings>ContolPanel>Printers>AddPrinter>Next>Epson>

EpsonLX80>Next>COM1:>ConfigurePort>BPS 110>DataBits>

7>Parity>None>OK

It may be a bit different for Win98.
I think all you need is a suitable lead.
Can you tell me a bit more about this HW 10 ?

Regards, John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

John 1

Yes the Epson Homewriter 10 can be set up under win98 the same way as win95. Even the drivers that come with win98 can be used. Standard Epson Dot Matrix. 
Like you said the only problem is coming up with the proper cable or in this case it's called an interface.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I see.

I have in the past made up cables for such units.
The printer end may be single sided edge connections
at one tenth of an inch spacing.

That used to be fairly common.
I have used Veroboard for this at a pinch
usually while waiting for the proper connector
to turn up. Veroboard can be bought in one tenth of an
inch spacing.

Sometimes an old or broken P'n'P card can be cut to
size for it.

You would have to get suitable wire and a fitting for the
Printer port. All in all its fairly easy with the right stuff.
If you're not very good at soldering, then get some
practice in first, if its a plastic base, you have to be
quick cos the plastic softens if you take too long
then it goes all out of shape.

Best of luck,
John


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

John1

You still don't quite see the problem. It is not just the cable that is wrong it is the interface in the printer. It uses non-standard signals (not just serial or parallel) to hook the printer to a C64. John Sparkman would also need to add circuitry to change the current interface to a parallel or serial interface with the correct signal levels and signal timing in order for it to be used. At one time these kits were avaliable for purchace from epson.


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## Rikku (Dec 11, 2001)

You're right Lurker,

I still have one of those kits


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

Rikku

Me too. In my Epson printer in my basement storage with my IBM model 70 computers. I finally dumped all my model 50s (286s). Still keeping the Epson in case I ever want to fire up the ATARII 800 again. I have about 6 different brands/models of dot matrix printers down in the basement. (no one can walk through the basement.)


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## cwolfe98 (Jul 12, 2001)

I still have the ol Radio Shack Tandy 10 in the basement ... gonna give it to the kids one day. (should be worth major $$$ ) ha ha!


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

Hi Lurker,

Clearly you are familiar with this arrangement.
When John said it just needed the right cable,
i assumed the signals were compatible.

I also thought that John wanted to hook it up
to his Windows PC.

I think that the Epson would use standard ASCII
seven bit, positive logic, option on parity.
Ready signal feed back. But i dont know this
particular machine the HomeWriter10. It may be
that Epson made printers that were different to
their usual layouts. These things were not very
standardised then.

Epson were so widely accepted that their usual
layout was regarded as an unofficial industry
standard across many PCs, in fact its still
known as 'Epson Compatible' and is still one of
the choices in the Windows printer setup.

From what you say, Windows wont drive a HW 10,
directly. Is that what you mean?

John1


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## Lurker1 (Jan 30, 2001)

Hi john1 

No windows should be able to drive the printer if it had the correct interface. When you originally ordered the printer you would specify the kind of interface it was supposed to come with Serial, parallel, C64, Atarii, etc. The different interfaces plugged into a socket on the main board. Since his printer has a C64 interface in it it will not work with a IBM compatable PC. I forget if a Bios change to the printer was also needed when you changed the interface.


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## john1 (Nov 25, 2000)

I see.

So what kind of signals would operate
this printer without any mods or adaptors?

Just in its basic form.
Im not familiar with the HW10 at all.

John


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## John Sparkman (Apr 4, 2001)

Hi John 1

With out the right cable (Interface) the printer would make one ugly paperweight. Inclosed is another pic to help explain.

The end of the cable marked (A) is inserted into a slot on the back of the printer. (Circled in Red). This end of the cable contains all the circuitry needed to convert the signal from the computer into something the printer can use. This cable (as shown) is used for a C64 computer. You could at one time buy different cables for different computer types. If this cable was intended to be used on an IBM compatible computer the end marked (B) might look like a serial or parallel connection and the circuitry at the other end would be set up to convert the signal from the IBM machine into something the printer could use.


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## Fyzbo (Feb 6, 2002)

Thanks for the link, it was very helpful.


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