# Please advise on the next step in web design?



## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi Folks,

It may have taken me 20 years but finally I am on the road to creating a website. I have always been crap at it, and maybe still am. But finally got my head around frames. I know... never said I was the smartest.

Ok so now I have a template I would like to move on to creating the site with new pages etc. I created this template using tables and nothing much more. Everyone is talking CSS these days and I really haven't a clue about using it.

Based on what you see, is it really worth it for me to create everything in CSS or continue on the way I am?

Also if there is anything glaringly wrong can you let me know. There are not links, this is just a template.

I would like to have a different high quality photo on each page, but am concerned about the speed of the page loading. Any solutions to that as well?

Heres the LINK 

Thanks for any feedback regarding the above

Dave


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## -Fabez- (Jul 28, 2008)

Try visual web devoloper 2008, its free and contains lots of features like drag and drog as well as code completion. The page looks good as well


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## TheRobatron (Oct 25, 2007)

Your page looks good, but it is definitely worth learning CSS and redoing your template because it's the way forward - frames are not supported in HTML 5. The same effect can easily be created with divs and CSS is really easy to learn  Tables can get complicated especially if they're nested so it's much easier to use divs.

If you want high quality images, you have to balance loading time with quality - the general rule is a maximum of 4 seconds loading time per page. If you want to increase the size of the page, make sure people are 'warned' that they will have to wait longer (i.e. if the link is marked 'click here for larger image') but don't exceed 4 seconds on the home page.

Good luck with your site


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

TheRobatron said:


> Your page looks good, but it is definitely worth learning CSS and redoing your template because it's the way forward - frames are not supported in HTML 5. The same effect can easily be created with divs and CSS is really easy to learn  Tables can get complicated especially if they're nested so it's much easier to use divs.


I agree wholeheartedly but I didn't know frames were dropped from HTML 5.

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Thank for the advice guys. 

hmmm. I will play around with CSS tonight to see if I can get my head around it. At the moment its a bit boggling as I don't know code. 

To be honest I just picked up on what I do know from some youtube videos! 

I'll have another bash and see if I can move up the ladder again!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

DaveSS said:


> hmmm. I will play around with CSS tonight to see if I can get my head around it.


There are plenty of online tutorials available. Once you wrap your head around the CSS Box Model, things get easier. 

Peace...


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## -Fabez- (Jul 28, 2008)

As i said before Visual Web Devoloper 2008 express might help as it suggests what to type while you are coding as well as giving you hints what to write and where to write it. Im not saying you stupid, but it might be worth taking a look at to get your feet along with the site tomdkat suggested


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi. I recently put together a css site for the first time. Trying to get my head around things was a little daunting, so I downloaded a whole stack of templates from freecsstemplates and experimented with these templates until I got a hang of how things worked. Once I felt I had figured out how these templates had been laid out, I made my own.


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Thanks again. I spent some time with CSS last night. I get the concept, and the reasoning. But I struggle to put it together. Seems like a lot of work for the same deal.I am flying with tables now. 

Hmmm. I have a standard template, but it will change on certain pages. So that sort of thing has me stumpped with CSS. Aside from the fact I don't code, just design mode. I am not a pro and just want to get a good site up. 

I will try again tonight.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

DaveSS said:


> Thanks again. I spent some time with CSS last night. I get the concept, and the reasoning. But I struggle to put it together. Seems like a lot of work for the same deal.I am flying with tables now.


Post the HTML and the CSS for the page you worked on so we can see what it is you did.



> Hmmm. I have a standard template, but it will change on certain pages. So that sort of thing has me stumpped with CSS. Aside from the fact I don't code, just design mode. I am not a pro and just want to get a good site up.


The web design tool I use (Kompozer) uses CSS for styling even though I'm not writing CSS manually by hand.

Post the HTML and CSS that was giving you trouble so we can provide assistance. Of course, you don't *need* to use CSS to get a website up and running but you will quickly find you WILL have to nest tables (and potentially a LOT) in order to get them to behave in a manner they were never meant to.

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Hi there,

Here's my template code. I am using Dreamweaver,


```
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

    Travelling in search of home

The Longest Way Home - Home Page

[TABLE]
  [TR]
    [TD][TABLE]
      [TR]
        [TD][TABLE]
          [TR]
            [TD][IMG]The Longest Way Home Logo copy2.jpg[/IMG][/TD]
            [TD]
[B][SIZE=13]The Search for Home Continues[/SIZE][/B]
[/TD]
            [TD] 

            [/TD]
          [/TR]
        [/TABLE]
              [TABLE]
                [TR]
                  [TD][TABLE]
                      [TR]
                        [TD] [/TD]
                        [TD]HOME[/TD]
                        [TD][URL=http://thelongestwayhome.com/wordpress/]BLOG[/URL][/TD]
                        [TD]COUNTRIES[/TD]
                        [TD]GALLERY[/TD]
                        [TD]RESOURCES[/TD]
                        [TD]SUPPORT[/TD]
                        [TD]ABOUT [/TD]
                        [TD] [/TD]
                    [/TR]
                  [/TABLE][/TD]
                [/TR]
          [/TABLE][/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
        [TD][TABLE]
          [TR]
            [TD]
              [TABLE]
                [TR]
                  [TH]
                    Countries Visited
                  [/TH]
                [/TR]
                [TR]
                  [TH] (overland Journey)[/TH][/TR]
              [/TABLE]

Portugal
                Spain
                France
                Germany
                Poland
                Slovakia
                Hungary
                Romainia
                Turkey
                Iran
                Pakistan
                India
                Nepal
                Tibet
                China

                (Overall Journey)
                Morocco
                Nigeria
                Philippines

            [/TD]
            [TD]
[B][SIZE=14][B]On The Road to Finding Home[/B]...
            [/SIZE][/B]

[B][SIZE=14]An Introduction [/SIZE][/B]

Throughout this site you will find not only my story and photographs about travelling the world to find a home. But, you will also find many usefull bits of information about countries, places and tricks of the trade that I will share with you here.

If you have just stummbled onto this site, then apologies. It's still underconstruction. Come back next month and it should be a lot better! Call it an online renovation!

Seriously though, I am also looking for a sponsor to host this site. With nearly four years on the road I am a bit streached financially to say the least. So if you, or anyone you know would like to offer free hosting then drop me a mail at [email protected]

Much appreciated

And see you soon!

 

 

 

 

[/TD][TD][TABLE]
              [TR]
                [TD] Map[/TD]
              [/TR]
              [TR]
                [TD][URL=http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&s=AARTsJrl68aUlnj3ObsrnRa0dJrdz-jm9A&msa=0&msid=114689006186239268379.000452fd127b797223b90&ll=38.272689,55.898438&spn=54.271669,149.414063&t=p&z=2&output=embed]http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&s=AARTsJrl68aUlnj3ObsrnRa0dJrdz-jm9A&msa=0&msid=114689006186239268379.000452fd127b797223b90&ll=38.272689,55.898438&spn=54.271669,149.414063&t=p&z=2&output=embed[/URL][/TD]
              [/TR]
              [TR]
                [TD]

                    [/TD]
              [/TR]
              [TR]
                [TD]Translate this website to your own language[/TD]
              [/TR]
              [TR]
                [TD]

                   [/TD]
              [/TR]
            [/TABLE]

 

[/TD]
          [/TR]
        [/TABLE]

 

[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [TR]
        [TD]

SITE MAP

 all site designs, the longest way home logo, text and photographs Copyright © 2008

        [/TD]
      [/TR]
    [/TABLE][/TD]
  [/TR]
[/TABLE]
```
From what I understand CSS means having different parts of your website split up into different style sheets. I guess this is where I get stuck. LOL right at the beginning! I was going to download a word press template and work on that. But again all the code had my head twisted.

I have komposer on a linux box, but just gave it quick glance over last night.

I am actually quite happy to continue on with tables. But if it's going to cause me problems in the the next few years then I would prefer to make the effort on CSS to avoid this. Then again, if there are no problems with tables etc then I can stick with what I have. The only issue is I want to implement a wp blog into this site. And edit that template. So What I was thinking was starting CSS from there. Pick a WP template, then try to work out how it works, and make it look a little like my own template above.

What do you think about that method?

Dave

Sorry if the reply is long winded, lacking in sleep here.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

DaveSS said:


> Here's my template code. I am using Dreamweaver,


Thanks, I'll take a look later this morning. 



> From what I understand CSS means having different parts of your website split up into different style sheets. I guess this is where I get stuck. LOL right at the beginning!


 CSS provides a mechanism for defining rules which control the styling of the page. It has nothing to do with having your site "split up" or anything like that.



> I have komposer on a linux box, but just gave it quick glance over last night.


Kompozer runs on Windows and Mac OS X (I believe). I run Kompozer on Linux at home and Windows XP at work. 



> I am actually quite happy to continue on with tables. But if it's going to cause me problems in the the next few years then I would prefer to make the effort on CSS to avoid this.


The issue with using tables, at least to me, is the unnecessary complication that's involved once you need to do more sophisticated things. HTML tables were designed to display "tabular" data. They were *not* designed for doing actual page layout but they tended to work well in that fashion before CSS started gaining some momentum. Once you find yourself nesting tables to position elements, you're starting down the rabbit hole. 

Peace...


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Since you've got a navigation link reserved for the blog page, it should be pretty easy to get your blog incorporated into the site. Already, you've got more table nesting than you really need but I understand why it's there since tables aren't designed to do page layout stuff.

Attached is a screenshot of how your site looks in Kompozer on Windows on my system. The navigation menu is 4 nested tables deep, as you can see in the status bar at the bottom of the Kompozer window.

What things did you try to do with this page using CSS that caused you problems?

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

First up thanks for the replies!



> From what I understand CSS means having different parts of your website split up into different style sheets. I guess this is where I get stuck. LOL right at the beginning!


My mistake. I meant to say 'From what I understand CSS means having different parts of your *webpage *split up into different style sheets.'

I had a look at kompozer on linux yesterday and copied my code in like you. Yes, it made it very obvious about the tables. And yes as I want to do more, I struggle with many insert, delete, copies etc. It is painful, but then it's all I know! lol

Right, the main issue with CSS I have is splitting this page up. I tried copying my header code into a style sheet. and then the body and then... well I stopped because I had no clue about what was going on! No preview. Just code. And I am sure I was.

I guess if CSS is just code then I should stick with my tables?! I don't want to have to spend 30 hours and many more practicing code. I have trouble enough learning Spanish!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

DaveSS said:


> My mistake. I meant to say 'From what I understand CSS means having different parts of your *webpage *split up into different style sheets.'


Actually, I think you're still misunderstanding. The stylesheet is simply one area where you define your style rules. You can define style rules "inline" in the HTML tags themselves, but that leads to redundancy.

By using a stylesheet, you can define the styling you want for different kinds of elements once and in a manner that can be easily re-used across the entire site.

For example, let's say you want all of the regular text on your site to be in 10pt Times New Roman but you want all text of Heading1 (H1) to be in Arial. Without using CSS, you would code something like:

```
<h1><font face="Arial">This is the first heading</font></h1>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="10">This is a paragraph of text</font></p>
<h1><font face="Arial">This is the second heading</font></h1>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="10">This is a paragraph of text</font></p>
<h1><font face="Arial">This is the third heading</font></h1>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="10">This is a paragraph of text</font></p>
```
See the redundancy?

Using CSS, you can simplify things by defining style rules. So, the above can turn into this:

```
<style type="text/css">
h1 { font-family: Arial; }
p { font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 10pt; }
</style>

......

<h1>This is the first heading</h1>
<p>This is a paragraph of text</p>
<h1>This is the second heading</h1>
<p>This is a paragraph of text</p>
<h1>This is the third heading</h1>
<p>This is a paragraph of text</p>
```
Much easier to read and much easier to change later. Let's say after defining the above rules, you found you really wanted your heading1 text to be italics. To make that change, just change the style definition for the H1 element and viola, done:


```
<style type="text/css">
h1 { font-family: Arial; font-style: italic; }
p { font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: 10pt; }
</style>
```
The rest of your HTML *does not change*.

CSS is about defining style rules for elements on the page and that's it. 



> Right, the main issue with CSS I have is splitting this page up. I tried copying my header code into a style sheet. and then the body and then... well I stopped because I had no clue about what was going on! No preview. Just code. And I am sure I was.


Slow down, slow down.  If you want to try a CSS layout, take it one step at a time.  You already have a working site that looks the way you want so all you have to do is make the CSS layout version look like that. 

If you like (and have the patience), we can work through the CSS layout in this thread but you'll have to be ready to wait for me (or others) to respond with the things you'll need to do. However, we can walk through this step by step so you can understand how the styling works.

Now, you don't *have* to use CSS but doing so will enable you to design sites that will be easier to maintain and change in the future as well as result in smaller HTML files using less bandwidth, and so on. There's no law that mandates you use CSS for web page layout. 

So, if you wanna try a CSS layout for the home page of your site (gotta have a starting point), I'm willing to give you a hand. 

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

> By using a stylesheet, you can define the styling you want for different kinds of elements once and in a manner that can be easily re-used across the entire site.


Ahh, now the bell sounds. I get it. Well, I get what you mean anyway:up: I noticed in dreamweaver that there was a CSS section that was creating style sheets as I made my headers the same etc.

Not being the brightest at this , I figured this was apart of DM as I never saw separate sheets/files in my files/folders.

So I get the 'style' part of it. I am also guessing there is a layout as well. Hence there a layouts sheets.



> Now, you don't *have* to use CSS but doing so will enable you to design sites that will be easier to maintain and change in the future as well as result in smaller HTML files using less bandwidth


OK the main thing that got my ears up there was less bandwidth. I would like this very much as some of the people/places I am aiming for have lower bandwidth so there's a bonus if CSS can deliver.



> So, if you wanna try a CSS layout for the home page of your site (gotta have a starting point), I'm willing to give you a hand.


Thank you very much for the offer. I have given it some thought. Last night I went on the prowl for worldpress templates for my blog. I was hoping to integrate it so so that it will have the same Header and navigation bar style as the rest of the site. I realised I don't have the skill to do this and wordpress templates are in CSS!

Would this be a good place to start? Learning? Creating a CSS template for the site?

Basically for the sites design all(100%) pages will have the same header and navigation bar. Under this header navigation bar things will change a bit with each page, but headers, text color and size will remain constant.

I hope that made sense?  I don't know if I am on the right track? or not?

Dave


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

DaveSS said:


> Ahh, now the bell sounds. I get it. Well, I get what you mean anyway:up: I noticed in dreamweaver that there was a CSS section that was creating style sheets as I made my headers the same etc.
> 
> Not being the brightest at this , I figured this was apart of DM as I never saw separate sheets/files in my files/folders.


We're getting closer.  What you saw was an embedded stylesheet with a list of style rules relating to the various parts of the page you were styling (your header, footer, etc).



> So I get the 'style' part of it. I am also guessing there is a layout as well. Hence there a layouts sheets.


Not quite. The layout of the page is also part of the "style" of it. You CSS to define how you want the elements on the page displayed and this includes where elements appear. CSS is intended to provide a standardized way of describing how a page is to look and function (to some degree). 



> OK the main thing that got my ears up there was less bandwidth. I would like this very much as some of the people/places I am aiming for have lower bandwidth so there's a bonus if CSS can deliver.


Use of CSS won't inherently reduce bandwidth but by defining your styles using classes and generic element styles, you can reduce redundancy (as demonstrated in my post above) and that contributes to reducing bandwidth usage.



> Thank you very much for the offer. I have given it some thought. Last night I went on the prowl for worldpress templates for my blog. I was hoping to integrate it so so that it will have the same Header and navigation bar style as the rest of the site. I realised I don't have the skill to do this and wordpress templates are in CSS!
> 
> Would this be a good place to start? Learning? Creating a CSS template for the site?
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, you CAN use CSS with your HTML tables oriented layout.  CSS is not mutually exclusive with HTML tables. It's just using CSS for page layout gives you far more flexibility with far less complexity than nesting HTML tables. This isn't an absolute rule (as CSS can get convoluted and complicated) but generally holds true.

You SHOULD be able to incorporate the wordpress template into your current site as it stands now. The issues might stem from using a HTML table-based layout causing unneeded complexity since you might need to nest MORE tables to get things functioning the way you want with the wordpress template.

I suggest go ahead and get the wordpress template incoporated into your current site and see how it works and how much work it is for you. If it turns out to be easy, you're done.  If it turns out to be a PITA, we can then talk about migrating away from a HTML tables-based layout IF that would be appropriate.

Peace...


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## Caspian1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Your website looks good. About a year ago I started messing with CSS after reading some stuff on this forum and it open up a lot of doors in terms of understanding the code and how thing were put together. 

Stay away from frames if you can. More trouble than they are worth and I believe they are bad for SEO. 

The site you have looks good. If you want to start experimenting with CSS try downloading a template website and modifying it in you IDE. This can really accelerate the learning curve. 

Tomdkat is right on target when he shows how the CSS can simplify your code. Your pages will load faster and the CSS will help you eliminate typos... additionally it makes the code a lot easier to debug and read.

I use Dreamweaver CS3 and it provides a lot of support for CSS. See if you can find a tutorial about setting up a separate style sheet also.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Caspian1 said:


> I use Dreamweaver CS3 and it provides a lot of support for CSS.


Just how good is CS3's CSS support? I ask since I've found previous versions of DW had issues with a particular CSS layout I used for a site I was helping a friend with. You can get the info in this thread.

Peace...


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## Caspian1 (Feb 7, 2008)

I see you are a distinguished member... so compared to you I'm a newb. But here is my opinion...

The CSS support in CS3 is very good. 

Its color coded in the CODE view makes it easy to decipher the text. 
The CSS panels are pretty much self explanatory and good place to experiment with the attributes.
The biggest benefit is that Dreamweaver handles the syntax.

By using the refresh options on you page or the F12 preview in browser function to see your changes almost immediately you can move through the process a pretty quickly from the get go.

The difficulty for me is when I work with PHP pages in the design mode, the CSS for backgrounds, containers and layout is not the same as what I get in the browser display, so that slows me down a bit.

I'm sure there is a way to make this work, just haven't found it yet.

You still need to know the basics of CSS to manage your divisions, but using the stylesheets in Dreamweaver CS3 has really been a time saver and helped a lot in becoming more familiar with the way it works.

There are still some attributes that I find the need to manually configure, however, a CS3 expert could probably do almost everything from the panel.


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## -Fabez- (Jul 28, 2008)

If you decide against Dream Weaver, you could always go for Visual Web Devoloper from microsoft. It boasts the features of Dream Weaver, with a drag and drop interface as well as being free. It gives you the option to create CSS sheets with help from the autocomplete or using the wizard.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Caspian1 said:


> I see you are a distinguished member... so compared to you I'm a newb.


That just means I've got more posts here than you. 

Could you download this page and load it in DW CS3 and send me a screenshot of how it looks? Even DW CS2 couldn't display it correctly, for some strange reason.

Peace.. .


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## -Fabez- (Jul 28, 2008)

Okay, I get the feeling im being ignored, if you didnt like my suggestion, you could just say so instead just ignoring me


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

-Fabez- said:


> Okay, I get the feeling im being ignored, if you didnt like my suggestion, you could just say so instead just ignoring me


"_You talkin' to me?_" 

I'm not ignoring you, I just don't have any comments on your posts. I'm not familiar with Microsoft's Visual Web Developer so I don't know if it's good or if it sucks, like FrontPage.

Peace...


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

Okay. First things first. DaveSS mentions he wants to create a template for his word press blog. Wordpress is in PHP and the template needs to be broken up into several different php files. Aneko Studios has the best tutorial on how to convert a regular html template and CSS into a word press template.

Second - support of WYSIWG website authoring programmes for CSS layout.
I don't have a new version of dream weaver, in fact I have macromedia dream weaver MX which must be about 3 versions old, but this version has terrible support of external style sheets.

I personally use Microsoft Expression Web. At present they claim to have the best support, and while it is great when working in code view, it is rather difficult to get what you want, when working in design view. Interestingly Expression Web does not have a preview mode, as found in many WYSIWG packages, but instead has you preview directly in your browser of choice, or even better all browsers installed on your PC.

Initially when I started messing around with CSS layout I tried to do this from design view. As I was not having success, I resorted to studying the html code of different templates and then emulating that in code view. To see what is going on I refresh the page in my browsers.

With Expression Web, I have found that the best approach is to create a basic CSS sheet, defining the style of the body in terms of color and font family, the main layout , like a wrapper which normally has auto margins, width and background color and what ever else. A header div, a footer div, a left column and right column. Once I have done this, I create a new htm file and attach the basic style sheet. Then in code view I will set out the basic look in the body section, normally something like this:

At this point, I check to see how everything is laying out in the browser. After this, I start refining the css sheet, adding other div to go within the main ones described above and so on. When all that is done, I create styles in the CSS for paragraphs, heading and links.

I have found that it is easier to do all this using code, rather than the design tools. I suspect this is true, regardless of what package you use.
And that is possibly why CSS layout is more "difficult" than using tables which are really easy to lay out using the design tools in almost any WYSIWG package.

The good news is, CSS layout is far more more logical than tables. So once you get the hang of things, it proves far easier to code a css layout then a table layout.

Another thing I have found, Firefox seems to display CSS layout better than Internet Explorer 7. So the next trick is to get your layout looking good in both. For instance, in the last template I created, while in FF the main wrap sat perfectly 5 px from the top of the page, in IE7 it was about 20 from the top. I eventually fixed this by adding 0px margins to the body style in my CSS.

All in all, DaveSS, based on my experience, initially CSS layout proved difficult, but once I got the hang of things, I have found it is much easier and more flexible than using tables. Thus I highly recommend you persevere, although you may need to get used to using the code view rather than the design view.

A second advantage to using CSS layout is that once you are done, you have a far cleaner and easier to use html page template. This makes inserting text easier.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

caraewilton said:


> Initially when I started messing around with CSS layout I tried to do this from design view. As I was not having success, I resorted to studying the html code of different templates and then emulating that in code view. To see what is going on I refresh the page in my browsers.


My experience with Kompozer, the tool I use, has been much different. If I want to experiment with CSS styling, I simply use the CSS editor and didn't resort to looking at "raw" CSS style rules unless I needed a hint or two. You should be able to do most of what you want, or need, from the design view.

A different approach I've taken to learning about CSS is to load the sites others have designed into Kompozer and looking at the CSS settings in the CSS editor. Then, I try to create my own version of that page, using their page as a guide of sorts. All of this I'm able to do without looking at any source.

I also find it interesting that Expression Web doesn't have a preview mode or capability. Since Kompozer uses Gecko, what I see in Kompozer is pretty close to how Mozilla browsers will render the page.

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

> -Fabez- Okay, I get the feeling im being ignored, if you didnt like my suggestion, you could just say so instead just ignoring me


If it was me you were refeering to then apologies. I have DWCSS3 and have just started with Komposer. I used frontpage a few years ago for a VD tutorial that worked out fine. I don't know much about webdesign so it got things done very quickly for me. Unfortunately being new, I never checked with Firefox, and it didn't work. Ouch. Anyway that and the fact that I have the other two applications makes me think I have enough on my plate for now. But thanks anyway.

I am also on the road a lot. And sometimes without laptop. So komposer I see is fairly portable on a flash disk. So that has me interested!

*Ok. I have two sticking points. *

1.
I downloaded a wordpress template, and all but one file is PHP. Komposer is not able to open them. And again I am lost at this 101 stage! lol. I was hoping to be able to open the files and have a poke around to see how things work. But cannot. Haven't tried it in DW as I on a linux machine right now. Will try later.

I was hoping to begin my CSS learning curve with working on the WP blog template. But that seems to have me stuck before I am out of the starting gate 

I am moving ahead with the site in tables for now, as I am learning from that to. And slowly find my self looking at the code more. So that must me a good thing!

Meanwhile I will start with CSS basics with this blog side of things, or a new template if that make sense.

2.
By the way, one side note. I just inserted from flash text on the nav bar. And then remembered rollover images as well. Which do you guys recommend for a site. I just wanted it for headings to change on mouse roll over. But for browser compatibility what method would you recommend.

Here's a new link

I have also taken tomdkat's advice. Last night I redid the whole template, and managed to remove a lot of frames. So any feedback on this would be appreciated.

Thanks again all,

Dave


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## colinsp (Sep 5, 2007)

tomdkat said:


> That just means I've got more posts here than you.
> 
> Could you download this page and load it in DW CS3 and send me a screenshot of how it looks? Even DW CS2 couldn't display it correctly, for some strange reason.
> 
> Peace.. .


Done it for you here. You are right CS3 still can't display it properly, but if you load it into a browser it displays perfectly.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

colinsp said:


> Done it for you here. You are right CS3 still can't display it properly, but if you load it into a browser it displays perfectly.


Thanks! :up:

I just don't get why DW has problems displaying that layout correctly. 

Peace...


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Right, I through notepad I changed some CSS on this template (excuse the logo, will fix later)

I removed all the side bar stuff it came with. And started to learn how to change text colors etc

I would like to do something about the HOME and ABOUT buttons. How can I link them to the home page and about page of my website? rather than the blog?

I really spent so much time my eyes are seeing double with this code stuff.

I think they are in the header.php file but really I have no idea where, I found the home link there.

Here's the code


```
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" <?php language_attributes(); ?>>

<head profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11">
	<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="<?php bloginfo('html_type'); ?>; charset=<?php bloginfo('charset'); ?>" />
	
	<title><?php bloginfo('name'); ?> <?php if ( is_single() ) { ?> &raquo; Blog Archive <?php } ?> <?php wp_title(); ?></title>
	
	<meta name="generator" content="WordPress <?php bloginfo('version'); ?>" /> <!-- leave this for stats -->
	
	<link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php bloginfo('stylesheet_url'); ?>" type="text/css" media="screen" />
	<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="<?php bloginfo('name'); ?> RSS Feed" href="<?php bloginfo('rss2_url'); ?>" />
	<link rel="pingback" href="<?php bloginfo('pingback_url'); ?>" />
	
	<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="<?php bloginfo('template_directory'); ?>/style.css" />
	
	<!--[if IE]>
		<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="<?php bloginfo('template_directory'); ?>/style_ie.css" />
	<![endif]-->
	
	<!--[if lt IE 7]>
		<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="<?php bloginfo('template_directory'); ?>/style_ie6.css" />
	<![endif]-->
	
<?php wp_head(); ?>
</head>

<body>

<!-- Page -->
<div id="page">

	<!-- Header -->
	<div id="header">
	
		<!-- Title -->
		<div id="header-info">
			<h1><a href="<?php echo get_option('home'); ?>/" title="<?php bloginfo('name'); ?>"><?php bloginfo('name'); ?></a></h1>
			<div class="description"><?php bloginfo('description'); ?></div>
		</div>
		<!-- /Title -->
		
		<!-- Menu -->
		<div id="header-menu">
			<ul>
				<?php if (is_home()) { ?>
				<li class="current_page_item"><a href="<?php echo get_option('home'); ?>/">Home</a></li>
				<?php } else { ?>
				<li><a href="<?php echo get_option('home'); ?>/">Home</a></li>
				<?php } ?>
				<?php wp_list_pages('title_li=&depth=-1'); ?>
			</ul>
		</div>
		<!-- /Menu -->
	
	</div>
	<!-- /Header -->
	
	<!-- Main -->
	<div id="main">
```
Ultimately I would prefer to have the navigation bar from my home page  there instead.

Any help on these two would be appreciated

I have to leave it for tonight as my head is spinning?! 

Dave


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## -Fabez- (Jul 28, 2008)

To Davess, just stick with whichever product you like best  And fair enough tomdkat


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## DaveSS (Jun 18, 2002)

Well, I have temporarily solved the problem. I am now parsing my own blog through the potential site. It means the template is sound and I am not having to run two blogs 

I just means people can't see the categories, which is not a problem considering the sites purpose as a whole. So all in all it worked out well. 

I have also managed to create a working site style sheet in CSS. So that's a start there too. I went for java script for the nav bar. 

Thanks to those that helped and offered advice.

Dave


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