# [Resolved] intermittent EMM386 error



## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Out of the blue today ....

1st - monitor went blue with the following message:

EMM386 has detected error #a3 in an application at memory address 5E83:0F0D. To minimize chance of data loss, EMM386 has halted your computer. For more information, consult your documentation. To restart your computer press enter.

Upon pressing enter my pc locked up.

2nd - While workin in an appilcation blue screen came up with the following message:

An exception 0E has occurred at 0028:A92419A3 in VxD. This was called from 0028:C001C3D4 in VxD NDIS(01) + 0000 4860. It may be possible to continue normally.

Upon pressing enter to continue, pc locked up.

3rd - Same EMM386 message as above.

4th - Same EMM386 message as above.

5th - Monitor went black and into standby mode (I have all power saving modes turned off).

6th - Monitor went black and into standby mode.

7th - Same EMM386 message as above.

In between all of these occurences, the pc seems to be fine. No particular application or action seems to trigger them. (The 7th occurence was while I was trying to post this message the first time).

Can someone please help direct me to the problem and solution?

Thx,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If it repeats much, it may be an indication of faulty ram; but what you are seeing is a message, very rare, from the extended memory manager that loads through config.sys which is a "legacy" file. That means it isn't even required.

You could run *msconfig* and uncheck both autoexec.bat and config.sys from the general page. That is if you have Win98.

If you have Win95, you could simply rename the files which are found in the c:\ directory to autoexec.old and config.old

If you still get blue screen errors, the ram needs to be tested.

It just may have been a fluke, though, one way or another.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

Thx for responding so quickly. I am running Win 98SE.

I disabled both autoexec.bat and config.sys from the general page in msconfig.

Upon rebooting, the pc beeped and an error message flashed across the dos screen right before windows loaded. The message was ...

Warning a memory manager was not detected ..... 
(not sure of the entire message, windows loaded too quickly).

BTW the contents of my config.sys file is:
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE
and autoexec.bat is:
SET BLASTER=A22017D1H5 P330 T6
SET CTSYN=C:\WINDOWS
C:\PROGRA~1\CREATIVE\SBLIVE\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM

Thx again,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Well there is, or was, nothing technically wrong with the way those files are configured.

I'm not sure what to make of the error message, you wouldn't have booted through to Windows without himem.sys or some extended memory manager being present.

For what it's worth, I do run the config.sys file in my Win98 system; it has two entries, one for enabling sound in DOS, which I have no use for really, and this one, which I placed myself:

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:ON

What the line does is force a basic test of extended memory on each boot up. Without that line, Win9x only does it during a Safe Mode boot.

It might detect a memory error and get you a message such as you see in this article:

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...port/kb/articles/q109/8/45.asp&NoWebContent=1

You also might want to try running:

http://www.simmtester.com/page/products/doc/download.asp


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi again 

I re-enabled the autoexec.bat and config.sys files and added the /TESTMEM:ON to end of HIMEM.SYS.

Windows loaded ok with no memory error messages.

I decided to check my ram inside the pc ... pulled both chips, switched their positions and reset them.

Haven't had another error yet ... will try this setup for a couple days to see if anymore memory errors pop up. 

Thx for all your help Rog,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

You're welcome; I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a fluke, we all get them now and then, but if they happen daily, then you need to take action.

Let us know how it goes.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Well, it didn't take a couple days before giving me more headaches. lol

In the past 30 minutes, IE has "performed an illegal operation and closed" twice and mshearts locks up when I try to start it.

Is it possible I have a bad ram chip and by switching the two memory chips, I moved the problem from it's earlier positon (affecting the VxD) to a new position (affecting IE and other areas)?

My pc and I have a love/hate relationship. I hate to love it, and it loves to hate me. lol

Thx,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

It's possible, why not try the DocMemory test, though a pass isn't conclusive, any fails generally are.

Also give us a copy of a HijackThis ScanLog to help eliminate software issues which can cause freezes and page faults:

http://www.tomcoyote.org/hjt/


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

I cannot get the DocMemory test to download. Following the link you gave me earlier and Simm Tester's instructions, causes "document.html" to be downloaded not an executable file.
I'm probably overlooking some step, but I've tried it several times.

Here is my current Hijack This! log ... and thx again,

Logfile of HijackThis v1.95.0
Scan saved at 11:44:43 AM, on 7/22/03
Platform: Windows 98 SE (Win9x 4.10.2222A)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v5.50 SP1 (5.50.4522.1800)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSGSRV32.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MPREXE.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\MINILOG.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\mmtask.tsk
C:\WINDOWS\EXPLORER.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\SYSTRAY.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\LOGITECH\MOUSEWARE\SYSTEM\EM_EXEC.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ATIPTAXX.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\MICROSOFT MONEY\SYSTEM\REMINDER.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\ZONE LABS\ZONEALARM\ZONEALARM.EXE
C:\PROGRAM FILES\INTERNET EXPLORER\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\DDHELP.EXE
C:\DOWNLOADS\PROGRAMS\HIJACKTHIS\HIJACKTHIS.EXE

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page=http://mail.yahoo.com/
O2 - BHO: (no name) - {02478D28-C3F9-4efb-9B51-7695ECA05670} - C:\WINDOWS\DOWNLOADED PROGRAM FILES\YCOMP5_0_2_5.DLL
O3 - Toolbar: @msdxmLC.dll,[email protected],&Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSDXM.OCX
O3 - Toolbar: Yahoo! Companion - {EF99BD32-C1FB-11D2-892F-0090271D4F88} - C:\WINDOWS\DOWNLOADED PROGRAM FILES\YCOMP5_0_2_5.DLL
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ScanRegistry] C:\WINDOWS\scanregw.exe /autorun
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SystemTray] SysTray.Exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AtiCwd32] Aticwd32.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AtiQiPcl] AtiQiPcl.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [EM_EXEC] C:\PROGRA~1\LOGITECH\MOUSEW~1\SYSTEM\EM_EXEC.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [ATIGART] c:\ati\gart\atigart.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AtiPTA] Atiptaxx.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [LoadPowerProfile] Rundll32.exe powrprof.dll,LoadCurrentPwrScheme
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [ATIGART] c:\ati\gart\atigart.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [ATIPOLAB] ati2evxx.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [TrueVector] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\VSMON.EXE -service
O4 - HKLM\..\RunServices: [MiniLog] C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ZONELABS\MINILOG.EXE -service
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Reminder] C:\PROGRAM FILES\MICROSOFT MONEY\SYSTEM\REMINDER.EXE
O4 - Global Startup: ZoneAlarm.lnk = C:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zonealarm.exe
O6 - HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Control Panel present
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: MSN Messenger Service (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ICQ (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ICQ (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Yahoo! Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: SEARCH (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ANTIVIRUS (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ENTERTAINMENT (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: SECURITY (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: SEARCH (HKLM)
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Euchre - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/et1_x.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab
O16 - DPF: {166B1BCA-3F9C-11CF-8075-444553540000} (Shockwave ActiveX Control) - http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/director/sw.cab
O16 - DPF: {EF99BD32-C1FB-11D2-892F-0090271D4F88} (Yahoo! Companion) - http://us.dl1.yimg.com/download.yahoo.com/dl/toolbar/ym/yiebio5_0_2_5.cab
O16 - DPF: {00000000-0000-0000-0000-d4c4b96b0d97} - 
O16 - DPF: {02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B} (QuickTime Object) - http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Dominoes (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/dot2_x.cab
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Cribbage (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/it0_x.cab
O16 - DPF: Video Poker (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/vpt0_x.cab
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Backgammon (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/at0_x.cab
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Blackjack (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/jt0_x.cab
O16 - DPF: JT's Blocks (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/blt1_x.cab
O16 - DPF: Yahoo! Towers 2.0 (QuickTime Object) - http://download.games.yahoo.com/games/clients/y/ywt0_x.cab


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I don't see anything at all wrong with those startups. Though you do have a "restrictions" entry, this is not necessarily bad unless you are getting restriction messages when you shouldn't.

Don't you get a download dialog when you click on one of the links in Step 1 of this link? How about if you right click and "save target as". You should see a download dialog for an exe

http://www.simmtester.com/page/products/doc/download.asp

Also, someone just gave me a link to this utility today; I've not tried it as yet:

http://www.memtest86.com/


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

I get the download window saying:

You have chosen to download a file from this location
download.asp from www.simmtester.com

I chose "save this file to disk"

Then the Save As window pops up asking where to save
document.html

No exe file.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Ah ha! The right click/save target as worked!


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Strange download behavior, does it occur with other "exe" files as well, that you know of?

It is somewhat symptomatic of the kind of problem addressed here, where the Right Click "save target as" will also work, but not the normal method:

http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?postid=247486#post247486


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog, 

Yes it has given me the download problem with other "exe" files as well, but there again, intermittently. Sometimes files will download fine (like spybot, adaware6 and hijack this), but sometimes it will not work (like simmtester).

I did run the DocMemory test. I ran one loop through the Quick Start option, with all the test patterns selected.
The pc memory passed the tests.

Now I'll try the regedit in your last link.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I went into

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Plugins

and deleted the "Extension" subkey
Then closed everything, rebooted, went back to Simmtester and tried the normal download again.
Still same results trying to save the "document.html" instead of exe file.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

I also downloaded (with no problem) the memtest86 and ran it, passed all 7 of the default tests.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you run *regedit* and look for *.exe* under the HKey_Classes_Root key, do you find that entry and see in the right hand pane:

Name ............. Data

(Default).........."exefile"
Content Type..."application/x-msdownload"

>>> then scroll down further and find *exefile*

do you see a tree of sub folders (DefaultIcon, shell, open, command)?

With exefile highlighted, do you see *EditFlags..... d8 07 00 00*

Select "command", do you see: ""%1" %*" in the Right pane?

There may be a "shellex" folder there as well, if you see PropertySheetHandlers under that, select any subfolders and see if there is anything in the Right pane for them. Let me know what, if anything.

>>> you should also have a similar .exe and exefiles entry under the key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\

Also, unrelated I'm sure, but looking back over your ScanLog, do you know what created these?

O9 - Extra button: SEARCH (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ANTIVIRUS (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ENTERTAINMENT (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: SECURITY (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: SEARCH (HKLM)

... they are not default entries and I don't even see an antivirus on your system. They could be checked and deleted with no ill effect if not related to any installed and legitimate program.

On the errors you were getting, they 'could' be heat caused if the fan isn't up to snuf, or the vents are clogged with dust, did you check these when you were switching modules?


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

running regedit under HKey_Classes_Root .exe I have exactly what you showed:

(Default)............."exefile"
Content Type....."application/x-msdownload"

under exefile I do see Editflags ..... d8 07 00 00
I have sub folders (DefaultIcon, shell, and shellex)
I do not have an "open" or "command" sub folder under exefile

under shellex I do have PropertySheetHandlers with only one sub folder:

{86F19A00-42A0-1069-A2E9-08002B 30309D} and in the right pane with it highlighted is (Default) ............ ""

I have exactly the same files/folders/sub folders/values in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\

I'm not sure what made the "extra buttons" you listed, but I suspect some of the sites hubby went to, since I have had to remove several links in my IE favorites which were forced in there by visiting certain sites. 

I would love to remove the buttons via Hijack This! if you think it is safe. I am sure they are not legitimate programs.

It is possible heat may be a factor since my pc stays up virtually all day and was a little dusty inside when I swapped the memory chips. The pc is a couple years old so it is possible the fan may be starting to fail.  Are there specific tests/signs I can use to check the heat/fan situation?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

I'm sure they are safe to remove. To check the fan, you just need to shutdown and open the case as you did, then start it up and see if the fan spins normally. You should get a can of compressed air, and with the system off, blow all the dust out of the vents.

Well, it's not right not to have those open and command folders; though I can't say for sure if their absence would affect the download properties.

Give me a few minutes, I'm on dialup, and I'll switch over to my Win98 machine and upload an attachment to add that.

What you do is download the attached text file to a convenient location and rename it exefile.reg

When it has a green registry icon, double click it and confirm the merge to the registry. You should then see those folders in the HKCR registry location under exefile and under HKLM\software\classes as well.

It won't change anything else.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The "Open" and "Command" folders are actually under the "Shell" folder, you probably did not look there; I can't see how you could run exe programs without running into an "open with" dialog without them.

But just in case, here is a file that will correct it. Download it and rename it exefile.reg then double click to merge to the registry.

You can open it in Notepad, by the way (right click > sendto > notepad, if you have a notepad shortcut in your Send To directory, Or just run Notepad and select it.) and see what's there for comparison if you want.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

I checked the Shell folder under exefile and it is there:

exefile\shell\open\command and the value is 
default ""%1" %*"

Will shut down and check the fan now


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

Fan is running ok. Could it still be an overheating problem?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The next time you get any "illegal operation" messages you want to click on the "details" tab and see what modules and error addresses are involved, for example, IExplore.exe caused an invalid page fault in mshtml.dll at such and such an address.

It might not be heat, it could be a dodgy video driver display or some problem with Internet Explorer. Have you run the IE Repair Tool? Add/Remove Programs > Internet Explorer > Remove > Repair....

AMDs are more prone to heat problems than pentiums or celerons; it is more suspect if there is a pattern to it: warm days, the system being on a long time, randomness in the timing and nature error messages, perhaps a general slowdown in processing.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

Will check out the details next time I get "illegal operation" ... which should be any sec now lol

Could it be the video driver since its been fine with the current driver for over a year and I havent installed any new prg's in the last few months (other than spybot, adaware and hijack this)?

I'll try the IE repair tool, never ran that one before.

I do have an AMD, but have not experienced these problems (other than the download problem and a very rare "illegal operation" message) at all until yesterday

A few min's ago it seemed like I got hit with all of the problems
(EMM386, "illegal operation", etc ...) as well as a new one: 

While initializing device NTKERN:
Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer.

Any idea's about that one?

Sorry I am such a headache,
Thx again


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

That's another one that's associated with faulty memory.

http://support.microsoft.com/defaul...port/kb/articles/Q192/3/97.ASP&NoWebContent=1

It's possible the motherboard or cpu itself is going bad if the problem with these errors cant be isolated to ram or heat.

How much ram is in there? -- it might be feasible, with a minimum of 32 mb to try one stick at a time.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

I have two 128 sticks for a total of 256


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

I'm gonna pull the chips one at a time and see if I have the same problems.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I pulled one chip and immediately started having the same problem. Replaced that chip with the other, and have had no errors for the last 45 minutes ... which is quiet a stretch for no errors since this thing started yesterday.

I will let you know tommorrow how things are running.

Thx for all your help,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Sounds promissing. Knock on wood and keep the fingers crossed I guess. Strange how the memory testers can miss something like that, but I only really have confidence in their results when they show fails rather than passes.

You're certainly welcome for the help


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi Rog,

Well the same problems with the other memory stick in by itself too. 

Most times when it crashes, it takes 4-5 tries to get it back up. That's with each of the memory alone and together.

Took both sticks down to local computer store today and they said "tested fine".

I have been able to capture two of the IE "illegal op" messages the machine would lock up to badly before I could capture the others.

First one:

IEXPLORE caused an invalid page fault in
module <unknown> at 0000:00432741.
Registers:
EAX=11c91cec CS=0177 EIP=00432741 EFLGS=00010203
EBX=004323bc SS=017f ESP=0058d808 EBP=7ffc69c3
ECX=0043280c DS=017f ESI=7ff335fa FS=1acf
EDX=00432748 ES=017f EDI=0058d855 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 28 0a 52 00 10 00 00 00 90 
Stack dump:
004323bc 0058d8c0 0058da70 bff7a567 82ba1000 
00000000 00520a60 8296a004 82ba9924 817888cc 
0058d844 bff88dc4 82ba1000 00000050 00000000 
85cb6900

Second one:

IEXPLORE caused an invalid page fault in
module <unknown> at 0000:00424e7a.
Registers:
EAX=80004002 CS=0177 EIP=00424e7a EFLGS=00010246
EBX=00000000 SS=017f ESP=0058b148 EBP=70bd6e97
ECX=0000000e DS=017f ESI=0058b174 FS=123f
EDX=00000010 ES=017f EDI=0042048d GS=1226
Bytes at CS:EIP:
12 71 50 63 12 71 38 63 12 71 18 63 12 71 00 63 
Stack dump:
70bd6d9b 00424e7c 0058b194 0058b174 0058b1c4 
00424e7c 00000001 00000001 004e9368 0058b1b4 
70bd6d34 00000000 0058b194 70bd6df0 70bd6ea5 
0058b1c4

This last lockup, rebooted and got these (windows never did come up). 
1)
A fatal execptin 0E has occurred @ 0028:c0005338 in VXD VMM(01) + 0004338. The current application will be terminated.
* Press any key to terminate the current application
* Press ctrl-alt-del again to restart your computer. You will lose all unsaved information in all applications.
Press any key to continue

2) same as above but with address 0028:C0006ED0 + 0005ED0

Then immediately went to black screen with white dots all over it and a blinking line cursor.

Had to hard boot again. 

I don't have much hair left by now ... done pulled it all out! lol


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

The module 'unknown' errors reflect a crash involving something Windows is unable to identify, obviously -- an often involves obscure spy or adware installs of which you have none. The other cause of them can be system instability in general.

This error is a well known old favorite of mine:

0028:c0005338 in VXD VMM(01) + 0004338

It is absolutely specific to a certain class of AMDs and indicates system instability, usually due to overheating.

The most effective long term remedy is to install extra cooling hardware, of course this assumes that there has been no damage to the cpu or other chips on the motherboard in the meantime.

A workaround which is *sometimes* effective if the system is not being driven too hard, is to try a software cooler, such as Rain2.

http://www.notebookreview.com/coolcpu.html

Results are mixed with this, but it's worth a try. After installing, shut the system down for a while to let it completely cool; then restart and hopefully it will not reach the peaks that are causing the problem.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I'll try the coolcpu to see if that helps some. I think you're right and it must be overheating.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, but each time I tried to post this ... same ole crashes. lol

This site is great and you folks are wonderful, keep up the good work! 

You can mark this one resolved. 

Thx again for all the help,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

There's no rush to put a 'resolved' on it, feel free to follow-up with whatever progress or lack thereof has been made. If it's not too awkward, you could try leaving the case cover off IF you have a small table fan that could be used for extra cooling, as a test. Otherwise, it may or may not help to leave the cover off as a well designed case should actually run cooler with it on.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi again 

I'm thinking the overheating:

1. cannot be the whole problem, because I have the cover off and have not had the pc on for 14 hrs then as soon as I turned it on and brought windows up, it rebooted with several of the above listed errors.

2. has already damaged either the cpu or motherboard (or both). 

Could my pc's symptoms possibly be caused by a virus? That's what the local computer store's tech is telling me the probable cause is (without seeing my pc and just a brief outline of the lockups). I do not have an antivirus software installed. (I hate av software lol). When I asked the tech if installing one would help, he said the virus probably would not let me install it. He said he has a av software that runs through dos that he could use on it.

If it could be a virus, wouldn't reformatting the hd eliminate it?

Any ideas?

Thx


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Frankly, they don't sound viral related at all to me; that's not to say that a format/reinstall wouldn't fix things, but I would be surprised if you could get though it without a suwin or vmm error.

I'm also surprised, being a shop owner, he didn't suggest the more likely, in my opinion, possiblity of a damaged motherboard. You might ask how much for him to do a replacement.

If you want to experiment with this a little more boldly, we can try going into the BIOS setup configuration and disabling external (L2) cache. This has the effect of both slowing the cpu processing down somewhat and running cooler. L2 cache is external to the cpu. There is also L1 cache, and that too can be disabled, but you will probably slow to a crawl.

To get into the BIOS setup you have to watch the first data displayed during the boot process for the right key to press.

Where you find the option depends on the BIOS version, but it should be on one of the first couple of pages

By the way, have you tried running for any length of time without config.sys and that emm entry?


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

I kinda get the impression (talking with the shop guy) that viruses are the "pat" answer to any questions. 

I don't mind experimenting more boldly.

I havent tried running for any length of time w/o config.sys and emm entry.

Which should I try 1st?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

If you want to be conservative just do the config.sys disable; I suspect just the error messages will change, but since I've never seen repeated emm386 messages like that that didn't turn out to be memory, there's a long shot that that file is damaged and causing problems.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I disabled both the config.sys and the autoexec.bat files (like you suggested before). The error is saw flash across the dos screen is a sound blaster error. It say's no memory manager detected, SB16 requires a memory manager. SB16 has not been loaded.

I don't mind running this way for a bit for testing purposes.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I also ran the IE repair tool you had suggested earlier.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Ok, that's no big deal about SB live; I don't know if disabling autoexec.bat as well will get rid of that message; it has to do with their DOS Emulation component, which has to be disabled in the Device Manager under SB; Creative SB16 Emulation Device

Just might be a good idea to disable that anyway on general principles; it does use unusual resources.

I'll be back later this afternoon to check on any progress reports


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I disabled Creative SB16 Emulation Device in Device Manager. Still get the SB error on startup.

Still locking up and crashing. Have had the same error msg 5 times in a row trying to boot this last time:

0028:c0005338 in VXD VMM(01) + 0004338

along with an IE error:

IEXPLORE caused an invalid page fault in
module <unknown> at 0000:00425082.
Registers:
EAX=80004002 CS=0177 EIP=00425082 EFLGS=00010246
EBX=00000000 SS=017f ESP=0058c0ac EBP=70bd6e97
ECX=0000000e DS=017f ESI=0058c0d8 FS=2f27
EDX=00000010 ES=017f EDI=0042048d GS=0fc6
Bytes at CS:EIP:
12 71 50 63 12 71 38 63 12 71 18 63 12 71 00 63 
Stack dump:
70bd6d9b 00425084 0058c0f8 0058c0d8 0058c128 
00425084 00000001 00000001 004548f8 0058c118 
70bd6d34 00000000 0058c0f8 70bd6df0 70bd6ea5 
0058c128

So now we need to try the L2 cache?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Sblive can be a real bugger to deal with but of course it is secondary. Just out of curiousity see if the file autoexec.bat has been recreated and if sb placed any entries in it. When you uncheck autoexec.bat in msconfig it really only creates a dummy file and stores the orginal entries in autoexec.pss. You might have to remove the sblive entries again if they are replaced in the dummy autoexec.bat

But the vmm errors are the most troubling and still point to an instabilty problem, perhaps a bad cpu or other component on the motherboard.

I'd try disabling that L2/External cache now for a test.

Not all BIOSs have this; my Win98 Award BIOS doesn't for example, but it would be found under the

BIOS Features Setup page, if it is there.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I have Award BIOS. The only Cache options I have under the BIOS Features are:

CPU Internal Cache ..... Enabled
External Cache ............ Enabled


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

External Cache, that's it. Set it to disabled: highlight the selection then press pageup or pagedown to toggle, as I recall.

Press esc > then select "exit with saving"


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

Ok, I disabled External Cache in the BIOS. This should help the system run a little cooler right? I'll keep my fingers crossed. lol I'll let you know how it goes.

Thx


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

That's the theory, and I've been told it does by folks with temperature monitors.

I'm curious to know how much of a performance slow down you see -- assuming of course you can keep from crashing. At best it's more of a workaround than anything else. Whether it works or not I think you are looking at a motherboard replacement or for not much more, a new computer.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I can tell a little performance drag, but not substantial. I have only had one lockup since disabling the external cache in BIOS. That may have been because I had several prgs running at one time, testing the performance. So far things are looking up. I'll keep you posted.

Thx,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Okedoke, I wasn't expecting a complete reprieve, but at least something you can live with for the time being. I'm glad to hear the performance hit isn't too bad, I haven't had any opportunity to really test running with external cache disabled myself, just through the few folks here who have had AMD problems like yours.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

Turned pc on today and it locked up after 5 minutes with the same old 0028:c0005338 in VXD VMM(01) + 0004338
error. 

If it could be memory related, would both of my 128 mg ram sticks possible go bad at the same time?

If it is heat related, I guess the cpu or motherboard have taken the hit bad enough to be crashing before system even warms up.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

My experience with these, and I have been monitoring them for years now, is that they are not memory related, but caused by cpu instability.

Heat has seemed the most common denominator and extra cooling the general remedy. My feeling is that it is not necessarily an absolute heat value, but how fast it rises under certain conditions.

It is a bit difficult to see how the problem can seemingly begin suddenly after months or years and not be that, or the damage caused by it.

However ..... there is another factor and an often successful fix, when it was possible for the owner to deal with it.

This has to do with the cpu core voltage. Knowing what it is and how to change it, absolutely requires a motherboard manual. I can give only limited guidance here.

But if you have a motherboard manual, or at least know the motherboard model, we can hunt one down.

If this is a Compaq, I don't think we will be able to do it, as I've never seen them provide such for their systems.

If you want to work further in this direction, and the fix involves finding certain dip switches on the motherboard, interpreting their settings against the manual and changing, if possible, the cpu core voltage, we might be able to get a lead on the motherboard type from the program Aida32:

http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=32

It's a nice freebee to have one way or another. The "enterprise" version is the one I use.

By the way, I don't know how thoroughly you explored the BIOS information when you were there, but you might see an entry for cpu core voltage under the chipset properties. If you do, tell me what it is and I will tell you if this seems a promissing direction to go in. The 'fix' tends to work when the cpu core voltage is too low: 2.2v instead of 2.3 or 2.4. If it's at 2.4, we don't want to go higher.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I have my motherboard manual.

GA-5AX (Rev 4)
ALi Aladdin V AGPset
Super 7 Mainboard
Gigabyte

I went through the BIOS and I marked in the manual all my settings so I have them if you have any questions.

I could find no listing for cpu core voltage under the chipset properties.

A little history on this machine: when it was 1st built (about 3 years ago), if the monitor went into power save, or standby, my monitor would completely shut off and you could not get it back on. I was advised to disable all the powermanagement functions through BIOs and Windows. .... Probably resulting in the overheating problem I'm experiencing now.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Ok, I've downloaded a manual for the 5ax 5202 and I'm assuming it is pretty much the same as what you are looking at.

The cpu internal voltage is set through 8 pos dip switch of which positions 4-8 determine the core voltage.

I see their default for all the Amd k6/2s are for 2.2v. What is the processor speed on yours by the way?

You can use Aida32 to see the real speed of the processor and the bus multiplier setting that determines it. You want to make sure you are not overclocked by much.

Can you locate the switch settings I am referring to? See what the current setting is for using the manual as a reference. 

For example pins 4-8 would be: X0XXX for a setting of the default 2.2v (x is off 0 is on)

We're looking to go to 2.3 or 2.4 and see if any greater stability is achieved at one of those settings.

Before making any changes I would want to know what the expected and current actual cpu speed is. The expected will be the rated processor speed and the actual you can determine with Aida32 if you install it.

By the way, nothing you did regarding power management changes would have caused any motherboard damage since the system only goes into powersaving mode when idle for a period of time anyway.

Also, if you haven't installed Rain2, I would do that. In the past where this procedure has worked, it has been done with the combination of the software cooler and the cpu core voltage change.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I have an AMD K6 2/500 processor. It is also an AMD K6 3D (not sure if you need that info).

My jumper settings on the motherboard are set to 2.2V for the AMD K62/500.

I have Rain2 & Aida32 running. While there is an amazing amount of info in Aida32, I'm not sure where it shows my current actual cpu speed.

Do I still need to have external cache diabled in the BIOS? It is currently disabled.

Do I still need to have the EMM386 statement disabled in config.sys? It is currently disabled.

I noticed in Aida32 under cpu, problems & suggestions, "No CPU L2 cache found. This may cause a performance penalty.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog, 

One thing I have noticed, when I first installed Aida32 the cpu utilization was 3%, 7%, 0%, 100%, 32%, 3%, it would go up and down, mainly down while I wasn't doing anything. But for the past 2 hours, the utilization has remained at 100% even though I havent been doing anything with pc. (I can understand it running too hot if it is staying at 100%.) I cannot determine what is causing it to remain at 100%.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

In Aida32 if you click on Motherboard > CPU, then by "CPU Type" you will see the actual calculated clock speed based on the multiplication of the bus mulplier times the front side bus setting.

Example for my Win98 system: Intel Cerleron-A 333 Mhz (5 x 66)
Beneath that you should see "original clock", which should be for you, 500 mhz (for me, 333mhz)

(you may also see the core voltage displayed there if the motherboard supports measurement)

I don't think Aida32 measures real time clock speed, just the configuration settings, but we want to verify correct settings there before proceeding. If it is overclocked to begin with, that could be a source of the instability.

The no CPU L2 cache is of course because we have it disabled; if there has been no improvement from doing this, go ahead and re-enable it. Otherwise, we just might want to proceed in steps and see how upping the cpu core voltage affects things first.

I would leave the emm386 disabled, as at least I see more meaningful (to me) error messages with it out of the picture.

You seem to have the default setting for k6/2; there used to be some controversy as to whether all the chips supplied really were meant for this core voltage, some people found that the actual chip was a 2.4v version, but you have to remove the heat sink and all to see the data.

In any case I have seen enough past successes with raising the core voltage to believe its worth trying.

You might try 2.3 first and see if there is an increase in stability.

Use the manual to verify, for 2.3 I see a setting of:

45678
00xxx

For 2.4:

xx0xxx


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog, 

Under CPU, CPU Type I have:

AMD K6-2, 500 MHz (5 x 100)

I down see an "original clock" option.

Under Core Voltage it shows:

2.2 - 2.4 v

I'm leaving the external cache and emm386 disabled at this point.

My manual doesnt show an option (or jumper setting) for 2.3 v, only 2.2 and 2.4. My jumper settings for 2.4v show:

12345678
x00xx0xx


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Oopps, I accidently through an extra 'x' in there at the end; I only meant to list the switches for the 45678 positions, which determine the voltage; so there is no real inconsistency.



I'm not sure how Aida gets its info, but it sounds like you should be good to try 2.4v; I suspect it determines it from the chip id and a data file associated with it.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I set the jumpers to 2.4 volt.

Even with external cache enabled, Aida32 still shows "No CPU L2 cache found."

Should the CPU Utilization be running constantly at 100% even when I'm not doing anything with pc?


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Yes, with Rain2 installed, that is a side effect; it is not a problem, just a characteristic of the way software coolers work, the system actually sees "idle" time as used time when it is really in a "suspend" mode.

Not sure what to make of the external cache reading from Aida; it should read enabled if it is enabled in the BIOS.

I don't know whether the BIOS would show it present if were not there, but I suppose if the chip is not installed, or damaged, that could be the case.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog, 

I noticed while going through the BIOS and CHIPSET setup that a lot of the default options are not what my machine is set to. My motherboard manual shows this is a:

"Pipeline 512 KB CACHE Pentium Processor based PC/AT compatible system with ISA bus and PCI Local Bus, and has been dsigned to be the fastest PC/AT system."

Does that mean my motherboard has pipeline 512 KB CACHE on it? Or does it mean it supports it?

The word "Pipeline" jumped out at me because I noticed while marking my settings in the manual that:

Pipelined function is disabled.

Does this have anything to do with my L2 cache?

Is there somewhere I could go to find my motherboard with my cpu and compare my settings to see if "possibly" I need to modify a lot of settings? 

I know curiosity killed the cat lol, but I know when my ex-boss was setting this sytem up for me and having lots of headaches, he was changing settings to avoid conflicts. Maybe I should leave "not so well enough" alone eh? lol

Just curious.


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Whew, that's a question that is a stretch for me; I think, but could be mistaken, that "pipeline cache" or "pipeline burst cache" (I think these are the same) are Intel features and so would not be supported by the AMD processor, but would be supported by the Motherboard if you had an Intel cpu chip.

I'm doing a little research, and much to my surprise, I'm finding others with the same issue, it looks like the amd k6/2 comes with no l2 cache. And yet it is listed as enabled in the BIOS

http://www.computing.net/cpus/wwwboard/forum/6678.html

http://www.computerparts-online.com/CPUSPEC.htm

^^^ by the way, I see he has 2.4v listed as the cpu core voltage for the Amd 500 k6/2 !

I would never have realized this since I've more than once suggested disabling it through the BIOS to effect a successful install, and succeeded, but now I'm not sure if it was a fluke or a different AMD processor. 

I don't know of anything you can use other than the motherboard manual yourself, since the settings are specific to the motherboard and the particular chip installation.

You might find something if you researched long enough looking though google or google > groups for someone with a similar setup who has provided a comparible setup configuration.

A post in the Hardware forum for specifc questions for that model might turnup someone who can answer them better than I.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Thx for the info Rog.  very interesting eh?

I saw the 2.4 volt listing on the AMD K6 2 (and the L1 cache with no L2 cache lol)

Thx for all your hard work on this one. I hope you get paid LOTS n LOTS at ur job since you prolly dont get paid for helping us out. lol

We'll see how my system responds with Rain2 and 2.4 volt enabled.

I'll let you know. 

Thx a bunch,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

No problem, I do this for the fun of it and don't consider it a sacrifice at all.

Good luck, I'll be back later to see if we've hit any pay dirt or not. Those old AMD k6/2s have been a nemesis for many over the years. I know the core voltage issue has been a confusing one from the beginning, it has a lot of history behind it.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

Things are looking good!  No crashes/lockups/errors in last 10-12 hrs and pc has been running most of that time. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee. lol


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Lol, I'm keeping my fingers crossed 

I know I've had good success with this in the past the handful of times I've found users who can deal with a motherboard problem, but so few have the wherewithall to implement it that I don't bring it up unless other options have been exhausted.

It's just such a specific issue to this processor that the documentation of it (all based on user experience), what there was, has practically disappeared from the net.


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## shesun4givn2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Rog,

I'd have to call this one a success! I've had only one isolated incident of the monitor going into standby mode and not recovering since the Rain2 installation and the voltage change early Monday morning.

You have a friend for life! lol

Many, many thx for all your help,
She's


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## Rollin' Rog (Dec 9, 2000)

Hey, that's great; I was wondering what the long term outcome would be. I don't think the monitor issue is related in any case, there are many factors which cause buggy operation of standby in Win98, including the running of certain types of screen savers or media files; more trouble to fix than just disable it sometimes.

Glad to be of help and put a final "resolved" on this


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