# Virus vs. No virus



## pelokwin (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok,
I have been a Mac user for a little over a year and being new to the wonderful world of, THE BEST D#** OS IN THE WO..MY HOUSE (I do not want to start a Win/Linux Mac whose better debate) I visit many forums to learn about Mac problems and solutions and to add my two cents and over time in all the forums I have been too one thing has been kind of constant. I am not going to use names and their reasons vary to why but some folks here, in the Apple.com forums, Comcast, even Windows forums and others have stated that," MACS DONT GET VIRUSES!! but I have read threads from folks that state that they are infected. My "Q" is, should we be afraid? I mean not as a, "Well I don't go to THOSE sites so I have nothing to worry about" way, I mean as Mac users in general. Are we going down the same path as windows? 
I do not want to spend a grand plus on a Mac and then fork over, what a hundred bucks per year to keep it safe and live in constant fear of some lonely person with no friends who has nothing better to do then make my screen show images of Dora the explorer in compromising positions, just so they can mess with me. 

Pelokwin like smilies


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ah yes, the virus and security debate. 

Keep in mind people tend to base their arguments on "extremes". For example, if I say "Linux is MORE secure" than Windows, Windows users will respond saying saying Linux _can_ be exploited so it's NOT "more secure" than Windows afterall. You get the idea and you've read the arguments.

Here's my take on it: Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows are ALL susceptible to malicious code. All three have mechanisms in place to protect the system from some kind of infection but it all boils down to the user of the system. A Linux user who runs the system as root and knowingly installs malicious apps isn't contributing much to keeping their system secure (admitedly, an extreme example ).

The difference between Windows and Mac OS X and Linux is the success hackers have had with exploiting Windows and the nature of some Windows exploits.

I don't think any Mac user would consider their Mac to be 100% impenetrable or immune to malicious software infection but the fact remains OS X is far less suseptible to infection mainly because there aren't many OS X viruses floating around and partly because of the security mechanisms in place to protect the system from infection.

If I were a Mac user, I wouldn't run anti-virus or anti-spyware software because there isn't anything "in the wild" for me to be concerned with. Additionally, I'm NOT going to use my system in a manner that jeopardizes the security the system offers. I don't mean not going to pr0n sites but I mean making sure I don't run in an account with privileges I don't need and keeping my system up to date with the latest updates, and so on.

Peace...


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

Right now, Mac users are fine. A few years from now we could be in as bad a situation as Microsoft with Windows. It all depends on how many people end up using Macs, since malware coders go after the OS with the greatest market share.


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## pelokwin (Apr 2, 2008)

That's it, from now on I'm telling folks," no no Mac stinks don't use it. Macs leak radiation and will make you go blind!!
(Pelokwin is sorry but he could not help himself, the only bad sarcasm is no sarcasm)

Is it harder to infect Mac and Linux or just not done as much?


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

ferrija1 said:


> It all depends on how many people end up using Macs, since malware coders go after the OS with the greatest market share.


You know, I'm not sure it's necessarily that cut and dry. Look at that hacker contest where hackers could win $20,000 *cash* to hack into a Mac, a computer running Windows Vista, and a computer running Linux. The Mac "fell" first, the computer running Vista "fell" second, and the computer running Linux remained "standing". Hackers claimed to have detected some bugs that could have been exploited on the Linux system but they didn't want to take the time required to develop the exploits, and that's with cold hard cash on the table.

It's true that Windows is HUGE target but that doesn't address the apparent success rate hackers have had exploiting Windows over the years.

Peace...


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm saying that for there to be many vulnerabilities exploited in OS X (instead of just one at CanSecWest), OS X is going to have to become more popular.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

I understand what you're saying, I'm just not sold on that idea.  In other words, I'm not convinced a sharp increase in popularity of OS X will automatically result in a sharp increase of successful OS X penetration. I cite the CanSecWest example because *cash* was on the table and that can be a very powerful motivation. 

Peace...


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## Chocklit (May 14, 2008)

In reference to the CanSecWest story...

interesting discussion at tuaw.com (unofficial Apple weblog) 

Comment #34: The exploit was pre-coded by Miller, and two other co-workers from Independent Security Evaluators. It took several weeks to code, but isn't as headline grabbing as saying it fell in two minutes....


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Wow, I had not read that before. I wonder where that poster got that information.

Peace...


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

tomdkat said:


> I understand what you're saying, I'm just not sold on that idea.  In other words, I'm not convinced a sharp increase in popularity of OS X will automatically result in a sharp increase of successful OS X penetration. I cite the CanSecWest example because *cash* was on the table and that can be a very powerful motivation.
> 
> Peace...


There's always money in it one way or another.


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## SoltoN (Jul 5, 2007)

I dont run AV or anti spyware on my mac or my windows xp box. common sense will protect you more than any piece of software.

that being said, i would say mac users are at a greater risk of becoming infected because of years of *knowing* that they have nothing to worry about. If you are cautious about what you install and where you are getting your software from, you should have nothing to worry about no matter what os you are running,


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

So, how do you know your Windows XP system isn't infected with anything? 

Peace...


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## pelokwin (Apr 2, 2008)

> SoltoN: common sense will protect you more than any piece of software.


 I'm not sure I would bet the bank on that one. My computer (Dell w/ XP) was infected from opening a work related email from a co-workers address) If you go online and interact with anyone or anything I would say you are at risk to get a bug. Every day someone somewhere is coming up with a way to "trick" a bug into a system . The only true way for you to be 100% safe is to have a "closed system"


> SoltoN:
> i would say mac users are at a greater risk of becoming infected because of years of knowing that they have nothing to worry about.


There is some truth in that, maybe not at greater risk but I would say some risk. It is hard to rob someone who is paranoid. But the guy who thinks "nothing could happen to me" is an easier mark
But it still goes back to how easy is it to infect a Mac and is it worth the time.


> ferrija1: There's always money in it one way or another.


yes but it is a lot of money vs. a lot of time or a small amount of money for a lot of time


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

SoltoN said:


> If you are cautious about what you install and where you are getting your software from, you should have nothing to worry about no matter what os you are running,


If you go online with XP SP1, you'll be infected in minutes. If you view certain site's ads, you can be infected. Popups can infect you. E-mail attachments can infect you.

There's a lot more to remember than just watching where download things.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

ferrija1 said:


> If you go online with XP SP1, you'll be infected in minutes.


That actually happened to me once. The funny thing is, I was trying to download SP2 at the time of the infection. 

Peace...


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## ferrija1 (Apr 11, 2006)

Wow, that's ironic.


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