# Building High End Gaming Computer



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi

On another thread I was discussing the building of a gaming computer and received lots of good advice especially from StillLearnin' and active95. I hope they will read this.

These are the components that I have chosen. Any comments,suggestions and criticisms would be most welcome and appreciated.

Asus A7N8X-DLX NForce2 Mother board
AMD Athlon (Barton) XP(333) 640k
ATI Radeon 9700 PRO 128 MB
DDR-Ram Corsair PC3200 (400) 512MB Twin X Dual Channel (is this the right one?)
Antec Plus 1080 AMG Tower Case w/Antec 430W Truepower PS
Westrn Digital 80GB 7200 RPM ATA100 8MB Hard Drive
Lite ON LTR-52246S 52x24x52 CDRW
Logitech MX300 High Performance Optical Mouse
Viewsonice P95F+ 19" .25mm (AG) SVGA Monitor

This will be built by the shop that I am buying my components from.

I hope to hear your comments and will wait for them before I go ahead and purchase it.

Thanks!!

Vivienne


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## pronute (Feb 13, 2003)

Very nice and yes the memory is right and happy gaming!


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## RSM123 (Aug 1, 2002)

Vivienne,

In addition to opinions here take a look here :

http://www.tomshardware.com

As they have very informative benchmark tests / run offs on ranges of different components.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi RSM123

Tom's Hardware Guide was one of the sites that SillLearnin' had recommended and all my decisions were based on those tests.

Thanks, though! 

Vivienne


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## gotrootdude (Feb 19, 2003)

Should be a real nice system.. I like the fellowes optigel cordless better than the logitech, but that's just personal preference. You may be able to save a little on the CDRW buying a opti-rite burner instead, it supports all the formats the lite-on does, plus the bezel looks better.
Get some altec lansing z640 surround speakers to go with it, or go all the way with kilipse(spelling). Don't scrimp on the speakers please.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne, vivienne, vivienne: That was quick! What monitor choices do you have? I recommend the AOC 9KLR:

http://www.aocmonitor.com/aoc/monitors_9klr.html

Canadian distibutor:

http://www.aocmonitor.com/aoc/locator_distributor_canada.html

We include the AOC line in our systems. Tremendous monitor line with not even MINIMAL returns, problems, defects, etc. These are high-end units at which you can sit for DAYS not hours! The 19' offers 18' of real estate. I guarantee that you'll be drooling in front of the 9KLR matched up with an ATI videocard. We normally run at 1152x768x100(or higher)MHz or at 1280x768x100(or higher)MHz for everyday use. I can't comment on the mouse choice as we only use Microsoft(Intellimouse Optical). Looks like your ready to build! For the people who missed out and to keep this thread shorter, here is the link to the thread that led up to this:

http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127943&perpage=20&pagenumber=1


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne, vivienne, vivienne: That was quick!*


*
  For three days, I slept no more than 4 hours each night and spent almost every waking minute reading and reading.



What monitor choices do you have?

Click to expand...

The place I am buying from carrys LG, Samsung, Viewsonic and Optiquest monitors. 



I recommend the AOC 9KLR:

Click to expand...

I have called the store where I intend to buy the computer and they say that they do special orders and so I emailed my request as directed by them. I'm not sure when I shall hear back. I also called the Canadian distributor who is closed today so I may not know if I can get this monitor until Monday. I sure hope so. It sounds fantastic. I did look for it after you first mentioned it but when it was not easily found I just gave up. You gave me new incentive to try harder. 



I can't comment on the mouse choice as we only use Microsoft(Intellimouse Optical).

Click to expand...

I wasn't sure which mouse to pick - the MX300 or the Explorer - so I have now changed it to Microsoft Intellimouse Optical. 



Looks like your ready to build!

Click to expand...

Almost . I just have to decide on a monitor if I can't get the AOC one. It doesn't sound like you loved my choice to bits. 

And I have to decide on timing. I would like to get it by mid-june at the latest. I know that you do not have a crystal ball, but do you think it would make a big difference in price if I bought it now or waited? I am getting so excited.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You've made my choosing the components real easy.

Vivienne*


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi gotrootdude



> _Originally posted by gotrootdude:_
> I like the fellowes optigel cordless better than the logitech


I can't find this brand here.



> Get some altec lansing z640 surround speakers to go with it, or go all the way with kilipse(spelling). Don't scrimp on the speakers please.


I didn't think of speakers.  We have speakers that are 6 years old and not that good but I think I will just get the computer and let my son worry about getting the speakers.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne. In order; AOC, Samsung and Viewsonic. We have hundreds and hundreds of 15", 17" and 19" CRT monitors(AOC) at several companies that do 2D, 3D, CAD and that type of work. Most switched from any brands they had, after seeing the AOC in action. Any high-end gaming rig(that we have built) ALWAYS has a 9KLR monitor included. The only true way to compare monitors is to have them available AND to be able to play with the controls! I'm sure you won't get a lot of feedback on the AOC as they are a high-end monitor and there are NOT alot of distributors. Here's a link:

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/...pn=1&lb=1&ob=0&tag=st.co.2295747.top.124275-1

This link for online only:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1951565&sourceid=0100000030130612102498

Scares the H*LL out of me to see that after all I just stated!!! Regardless of the Walmart assoc., I still prefer it over the others. I happen to have had/do have(on another system) a Viewsonic 17". I think they suck more power, computer resources and run hotter than the AOC or the Samsung. We have also used them in the shop for testing "new builds" and prefer the AOCs.



> And I have to decide on timing. I would like to get it by mid-june at the latest.


 Like I said before, the component market is the same as the Commodity market in the Stock Exchange. Supply and demand rule the prices. The one high spot might be better and/or cheaper ATI prices for sure. Maybe a slight drop in other prices, however it would pretty much be speculation on my part to state for sure this will happen. Our suppliers are "hinting" at higher prices so I just don't know. Kinda worse than crude oil price speculation!! The system is looking GOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you DO get the chance to try to contact the AOC distributor up there, find out if there is anywhere close that you could see one in action. I hope so!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I am willing to buy the AOC without looking at it simply on your recommendation. The distributor is in Toronto and I have a son who lives there. I am going to visit him on Thursday. I am not sure if they would sell it to me or not as their website shows that they only serve dealers. From what you said about it, I don't have to worry about it being close to home for warranty and servicing unless, of course, I get a lemon. But the store I would buy it from only would look after it for the first year anyway. By hook or by crook that is the monitor I want. I'll figure out a way to get it - sight unseen and even thought it's sold at Walmart's. By the way, our Walmart's does not sell it. They only sell Daiwoo, they said.

Another question about the case: It comes with two fans and there is a place for a fan at front and a hdd fan. I don't think I need a hdd fan but should I get one for the front?

I think once I've gotten the monitor question settled, I am going to go ahead. The more I think about it the more impatient I'm getting.

I wish you could come over and see it when it's finished. I've got the adoption papers ready. 

Vivienne


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## gotrootdude (Feb 19, 2003)

Opti-gel cordless is here...
http://www.fellowes.com/store/index.cfm?selectProductCategory=84,1,83&pCat=84&tsr=4

Wife made me switch to a wireless intellimouse when I recieved one free for filling out a microsoft survey. Now the intellimouse is being used by the kids, it doesn't compare to my old opti-gel. The Intellimouse feels to sluggish, and doesn't have the configuration options of the opti-gel. Plus the gel pad really saves your hands when working over long hours.

I know it's $60 for a little heard of mouse, but it really works so much better than the well known ones.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Thank G*D the Wallyworld thing is ONLY online sales!1 This could be the ruination of me.........................

Is this your case??:

ANTEC Performance PLUS Model PLUS1080AMG- with Antec Original TRUE 430W P4 Power Supply ATX12V Retail 
Specifications: 
Case type: SOHO File Server 
Case Color: Antec Metalic Gray 
Case Dimensions: 20.6" x 8.1" x 18.6" (H/W/D) 
Drive bays: 10 
Front accesible 4x 5.25, 2x 3.5" Internal 4x 3.5" 
Expansion Slots: 3 Short 4 Full Length 
2 Rear Standard Fans 1 Side fan 
Washable Air Filter in front Model#: PLUS1080AMG 
Intel Approved Chassis for 3.06Ghz
**ANTEC HALL OF FAME PAGE**

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage...15-11.jpg/11-129-115-04.JPG/11-129-115-12.jpg

If so, I don't think at this time more fans are needed.

Make sure to get a ThermalTake Volcano7 or 9 series heatsink/fan for that cpu. Keep it cool as possible.



> I've got the adoption papers ready.


 Soooooooooooooooo Tempting!!!!!!! However, since I was born in the 40's, I "might" have to be the "adopter"!


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## gotrootdude (Feb 19, 2003)

Volcano 11  or a SLK-900

http://www.svc.com/thvo11xaed.html

http://www.svc.com/noname10.html

The SLK-900 is the coolest over the volcano 11 but you'll need the 92mm fan to go on it.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Thank G*D the Wallyworld thing is ONLY online sales! This could be the ruination of me.........................*


*
LOL!



Is this your case??:

Click to expand...

This is from the Antec website:

Thermally Advantaged Chassis 3.0 Ghz compatible 
TruePower - quieter, more stable, more powerful 
Front mounted USB & IEEE1394 (FireWire) ports 
Washable Air filter on the front 
Lockable swing out side panel with a handle
- Quick release drive bays with release lever
- Snap-in fan mounts 
Drive rails for 5.25" devices 
Removable Side Panels 
Removable Drive Cages for 3.5 drives 
10 Drive Bays:
- External: 4 x 5.25", 2x 3.5"
- Internal: 4 x 3.5" 
Cooling capacity: up to 5 x 80mm fans
- 2 rear (installed)
- 1 front (optional)
- 1 HDD (optional>
- 1 side panel (optional) 
Motherboards up to Extended ATX

It's the same model number as the one you gave specifications for. Notice, though, that the fans are different. There is no description on my store's site as this is not regular stock and has to be ordered.




ANTEC Performance PLUS Model PLUS1080AMG- with Antec Original TRUE 430W P4 Power Supply ATX12V Retail 
Specifications: 
Case type: SOHO File Server 
Case Color: Antec Metalic Gray 
Case Dimensions: 20.6" x 8.1" x 18.6" (H/W/D) 
Drive bays: 10 
Front accesible 4x 5.25, 2x 3.5" Internal 4x 3.5" 
Expansion Slots: 3 Short 4 Full Length 
2 Rear Standard Fans 1 Side fan 
Washable Air Filter in front Model#: PLUS1080AMG 
Intel Approved Chassis for 3.06Ghz
**ANTEC HALL OF FAME PAGE**

If so, I don't think at this time more fans are needed.

Click to expand...

What if it is the description I had? Would it need a fan? I keep reading how you should have one in front to suck in air.




Make sure to get a ThermalTake Volcano7 or 9 series heatsink/fan for that cpu. Keep it cool as possible.

Click to expand...

Oh Geez! I thought I was done.  I thought a heatsink/fan came with the CPU. These are the ones I have a choice for

Thermaltake Volcano 7+ Socket 478 / 462 HSF

Thermaltake Volcano 9 COOLMOD Socket 462 HSF

Which one would you choose? Or does that socket stuff mean that I do not have a choice? I forgot to learn about socket stuff. I guess I should. 

The Volcano 7 is a special order. The Volcano 9 is regular stock. Both are about the same price - the 9 one is $3.00 more.

Did I miss out anything else. Like coolant and such? 



Soooooooooooooooo Tempting!!!!!!! However, since I was born in the 40's, I "might" have to be the "adopter"!

Click to expand...

*Those things are just little unimportant details. 

Vivienne


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

All gamers need a DVD drive for relaxing. When you just can't go another round of Quake3, you need to relax and watch a nice DVD.
Also you have probably found that most gaming magazines come with a DVD these days. They are just so handy, and yet only a tad more than a standard CD-ROM. If you can spare just a little more, I'd go get one. 
Ohh and you need some cold cathode lighting. Have a look at http://www.pccasegear.com.au, awww there are so many ways to make your high end PC look high end as well.
By the way... I'm jealous Although I'd get a Lian-Li case if it were my system.


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## Ian291 (Feb 2, 2003)

I'd second the Lian Li comment - these cases are brilliant.

Also on the M'board front.... insist that you are supplied with a revision 2 board. The new ones have guaranteed fsb400 support, better N/S bridge chips and a lot less hassle on the BIOS front.


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## Nothingface (Nov 10, 2002)

that antec case is nice. i have the exact same one. the color is a really dark gray, not like shiny silver (i wish it was). it has all the fans u need for a case, so dont worry about buying extra fans.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: A good point brought up by Ian291:



> Also on the M'board front.... insist that you are supplied with a revision 2 board.


 Make sure you Don't get an EARLY version mobo as there were more problems with them. Everything is pretty well taken care of now with newer BIOS releases though.

As far as the case goes, the 2 fans in the rear should be enough for what you have now. After you get it, keep an eye on the temps, and if it's running too warm then add an additional fan. This depends on whether it's the mobo or cpu temp that is too high. The fan/heatsink that comes with the cpu should be fine, but still keep an eye on the temps. The ASUS mobos come with software on the cd (Asus Probe) that you install and it tells you the temps, voltage and other info. If you have to change h/f, get the Vol 9.



> Did I miss out anything else. Like coolant and such?


 NO. That's only good for EXTREME OVERCLOCKING!!!!!

As AtreideS brought up and I just noticed in your system specs, there is a CDRW(burner) listed but no CD-ROM or DVD player. At the prices now, a DVD player would be nice(LiteOn). Here's a couple more links you might enjoy(by the way, I have #8 & #10):

http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=daeresults.php3

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Hardware/All.asp

Things are looking good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

Nothingface: Thanks for the input. I didn't think more fans would be necessary in this system, but if it's not running cool enough more can always be added. We use Enlight, Enlight/StarTech for regular systems and Enlight or sometimes Antec(with StarTech power supply) for servers.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi all 

I noticed the times of your posts! Do you guys never sleep? 

Well - you've all given me a lot more food for thought.

Re: DVD

You are right on the DVDs. I've noticed that there will be PC games coming out on DVD and that probably will be *the* media for games in the near future.

Would you suggest a combination of CD-R/RW/DVD or separate? It might not be possible to get it as a combo with Mt Rainier capability that I think will be useful. I also will want a DVD writer when they fall substantially in price. So I guess I have to do more research here. StillLearnin' - thanks for the links.

Re: Heat sink fans

Oh - the Vol 9 was for the *motherboard*. Okay - I think I will just get it because knowing my son and his family no one will monitor. :-( Now *I* want a system like this. I'd monitor it to death. 

Re: Lian Li cases

They are hard to get here. I think I'm good with the Antec. As far as beautifying is concerned, I would rather spend the money on a better system. I am spending way more than I thought I would when I initially started to think about this. StillLearnin' suggested a system that would also be amazing and cost a lot less. It was so tempting but I decided to go all out. So beautifying will have to wait for a lottery win.

Re: Extra fans

Thanks for the input! One more thing I don't have to worry about.

Re: revision 2 board

Thanks for the advice!! I would never have thought to ask about this. Will it cost more to buy this board with revision 2? I was just wondering what to expect from the dealer if their boards are not revision 2 boards.

StillLearnin' said


> Things are looking good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  They are!! I am *so* excited.

Thanks to all of you ! You've been wonderful.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I noticed the times of your posts! Do you guys never sleep?


 Can't. Too busy trying to think! I could use a nap right now!!!!

Reading time again. I (personally) think I'll wait for the standard to change or the perfomance/price ratio to get better. Link:

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/



> Will it cost more to buy this board with revision 2?


 NO!! The mobo comes out rev.1.0x, then rev.1.02, then rev. 1.03 etc.(or something to that effect. We usually wait until the 3rd rev(such as rev. 1.03) before buying so the bugs are worked out. The A7N8X should be rev 2.0 by now. Link:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13554&sid=e615d35378ab1cdcafdc8faa4ff1cae9



> I was just wondering what to expect from the dealer if their boards are not revision 2 boards.


 It's usually a matter of using a different BIOS. It would be much nicer to get a version 2.0 mobo, though!


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## slipe (Jun 27, 2000)

> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> *
> 
> Re: Heat sink fans
> ...


The Volcano 9 goes on the processor, not the motherboard. I dont think you need anything but the stock heatsink for a Barton. I have read several tests that show it adequate even for a TBred, and the Barton runs cooler. This site used the stock AMD heatsink and fan to overclock a 3000+ Barton: http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1240&page=9 The AMD unit should be fine for your purposes.

The Volcano 9 has a thermal sensor so the fan doesnt run any faster than you need for the particular load. So you probably get a quieter running machine. Some builders dont like putting the sensor in, but it seems to be OK and should be fine on a Barton. I dont think AMD has certified the Volcano 9 for the Barton though  it hasnt been on any list Ive seen. I would stick with the stock heatsink and fan.

Something like the Volcano 11 or SLK900 would be absurd for your purposes. I have a SLK900 but I have a completely different agenda. It is only superior if you put a really noisy fan on it, and you dont need that irritation or expense.

Do make sure your builder uses Arctic Silver 3 paste on whatever you use for the processor. It only takes about 25c worth for a processor and any builder worth his salt would use it. Many people are also cleaning the stock stuff from the northbridge and using Arctic Silver.

I would get a separate DVD and burner. You can copy CDs on the fly from the DVD to the burner for one thing. And if one fails you can use either to read CD. I dont think there is a price advantage to getting a combo unit. At least there isnt in the US.

The RAM you are getting is the only 256 Mb RAM modules that have had serious problems on nForce2 boards. Evidently Corsair has changed their SPD programming and Asus has put out a fix with their latest BIOS. If you get both the board and RAM from a high volume seller and avoid stock on hand you shouldnt have any problems. Revision 2 boards dont cost more and that is all a high volume seller should currently have in stock. I had to avoid the XLS RAM because Epox doesnt have a BIOS revision to fix it and I didnt want to take the chance as Corsair hadnt owned up to the problem yet when I built my system. It is really the RAM of choice for a high end system and I think the problem is sorted out. It is discussed here: http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3199 and here: http://www.houseofhelp.com/v2/showthread.php?threadid=10642 Even if you got some of the bad RAM and an older board a BIOS update should fix it  but that isnt something you want to do yourself if you dont have to. I presume your builder would deal with the problem in any case.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Slipe



> Originally posted by slipe: The Volcano 9 goes on the processor, not the motherboard.


Blush big time


> I dont think you need anything but the stock heatsink for a Barton.


Okay. We'll monitor the temps and the noise . I can always get one if ever necessary. Thanks.


> Do make sure your builder uses Arctic Silver 3 paste on whatever you use for the processor.


Okay - I will. Poor guy - he's going to think I am such a pain. Can you just hear him thinking: special paste, special monitor, special revision, special memory. I can't wait for her to leave. LOL!


> I would get a separate DVD and burner.


Makes sense. There is no price advantage here either. I was just thinking that it would use up all my allowable stuff. I believe you can have four things. I have two disk drives and the cd-rw and the dvd. I'll just take one of them out, I guess, when at a later time, I get a dvd writer.


> The RAM you are getting is the only 256 Mb RAM modules that have had serious problems on nForce2 boards.


Will the dealer know if the ram I am buying is the 'good' ram or not? Is there a way of telling rather than just asking him it's new or not.


> It is discussed here: http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3199 and here: http://www.houseofhelp.com/v2/showthread.php?threadid=10642


Interesting - thank you. It scares me all these problems that people have but as they pointed out only the problems reach the boards - the success stories don't.


> I presume your builder would deal with the problem in any case.


I hope so. I do not know anyone that can give me a recommendation on who to use. I chose one shop and then read the Better Business Bureau reports and decided against it. I visited another who were so condescending - you just wouldn't believe. I will visit this one next week if I can. They have been very helpful and nice over the phone anyway.

Thanks very much, Slipe!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi

I have a memory question that has been bugging me.
The board has 3 memory slots. I read that it works best if all slots are used. What happens if I want to add extra memory. What kind of memory would I buy if the one that is good only comes in packages of 2? 

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

Definately get seperate DVD and CD-RW drives. On the fly burning is alot nicer than wasting precious CPU power (not that your system would have a problem with it ). But just for the ease of use. If you buy seperate drives, make sure when you put them in your case with a gap inbetween (if there is room). I only had a brief look and I heard 'Volanco' mentioned. If you were getting one of those Hardcanos ( for extra extra cooling) you could put that in between the 2 Optical Drives to allow for better cooling. Having 2 drives together causes extra heat, and possibly more noise due to the vibrations.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:


> I have a memory question that has been bugging me.





> The board has 3 memory slots. I read that it works best if all slots are used. What happens if I want to add extra memory. What kind of memory would I buy if the one that is good only comes in packages of 2?


 This was answered on page3 of your other thread:

http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127943&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

"3 DDR Slots supporting DDR200/266/333/400 modules. If you want to take advantage the Dual Channel DDR, just ensure that have one DDR in the black slot and the other in the blue." Dual 333 sticks should be fine. The biggest gain using two 400 sticks I've seen is maybe 5%. Not worth the price diff.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have to have TWO sticks of ram for the TWO seperate controllers to work simultaneously. It is how it works. Check anywhere. That's why the ram banks are located on the MB how they are. So you can tell which is bank 1 and which is bank 2 so that you can setup dual ddr correctly. Let me quote from the A7N8X Deluxe manual on Memory Configuration. "To enhance system performance, utilize dual-channel feature when installing ADDITIONAL DIMMS. You may install the DIMMs in the following sequence: Sockets 1 and 3 or Sockets 2 and 3 or Sockets 1, 2, and 3." Page 14 2.5.2 Note.

By getting 2 512MB sticks of ram, you will have NO need for more sticks and NO trouble with compatablity.


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## slipe (Jun 27, 2000)

> Okay - I will. Poor guy - he's going to think I am such a pain. Can you just hear him thinking: special paste, special monitor, special revision, special memory. I can't wait for her to leave. LOL!


If your builder resents something as simple as that you have the wrong builder. A 25c dab of Arctic Silver makes a difference.

The latest revision is 1.16 I think. It isnt a big deal if you get version 2, but it would be best to have your builder install the 1.16 update for you. This is from the FAQ I liked: *Recently ASUS came up with a version 1.16 package, which despite the lower version number, is actually newer, then the 2.00 package and it is recommended you install those as the custom device ID's are no longer and issue and manual installation is no longer necessary. These drivers also resolve other issues* I hope their knowledge level isnt reflected in their language abilities.

The Asus site is in runaround mode right now, but if there is a recent BIOS update it would be a good idea to have the builder install that for you as well.



> Makes sense. There is no price advantage here either. I was just thinking that it would use up all my allowable stuff. I believe you can have four things. I have two disk drives and the cd-rw and the dvd. I'll just take one of them out, I guess, when at a later time, I get a dvd writer.


A Promise ATA 100 card is only $20 and that is as fast as your WD hard drive will go. A card gives you 4 additional devices and is very easy to install. No need to install it until you need it.



> Will the dealer know if the ram I am buying is the 'good' ram or not? Is there a way of telling rather than just asking him it's new or not.


It is all good RAM. The computer wont post with the old BIOS and the odd RAM. It will just make him update the BIOS for you. It is a big hassle for a home builder who doesnt have some different DDR around to boot the computer so the BIOS can be updated. It shouldnt be a problem for a builder. Once the BIOS is updated it works fine.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Here, I forgot these:

Q. What slots do i put my memory in to enable Dual Channel DDR (TwinBank)? 
A. The manual says for 1 stick to reside in each channel. What that means is to benefit from DCDDR you should place modules in slots 1 & 3, or slots 2 & 3. Slot 1 is located closest to the Ziff Socket (black in color) slot 2 is next (blue) and slot 3 is next (also blue). Using all 3 slots can also enable DCDDR. Peoples results have varied from system to system depending on what slots they put their modules in. Some get better performance with a certain configuration and some get better stability with another. You should try your own tests as they will more then likely differ from others. 

Q. How do I set up Dual Channel DDR/TwinBank/DualDDR optimally? 
A. In order for DualDDR memory to run at it's optimal speed, you need to have an equal amount of RAM in each channel. Slots 1 and 2 are channel 1, and slot 3 is channel 2. Right now I've got 256MB in slot 2, and 256MB in slot 3. This means 256MB in each channel. If I was to upgrade and wanted to keep full Dual DDR, I would need a 512MB stick, and put it in slot 3, and the 256MB sticks in slots 1 & 2. This would give me 512MB in each channel, and an equal balance. This would give me an optimal Dual DDR setup. 
If I were to have, say, 512MB in one channel, and 256MB in the other, only 256MB of the channel with the 512MB stick would be running in Dual DDR, since the channels would not be balanced. The rest of the 512MB stick would run in standard single channel mode, giving below optimal performance. 

Corsair recommends the following settings for their XMS3200C2 and XMS3500C2 modules: 

Testing parameters for XMS3200 CAS 2: 
DRAM Clock: 200 MHz 
DRAM Timing (overrides SPD values): Manual 
System Performance: Normal 
Bank cycle time (or tRAS): 6 
Bank Interleave: 4 
RAS Precharge (tRP): 3 
RAS-to-CAS Delay (tRCD): 3 
CAS Latency: 2 
Command Rate: 1T 
Memory Voltage: motherboard default* 

Testing parameters for XMS3500 CAS 2: 
CPU Speed: Manual 
CPU External Frequency: 145 
CPU to Memory FSB ratio: 4:6 
SDRAM Configuration: Manual 
SDRAM CAS Latency: 2T 
SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD): 3T 
SDRAM RAS Precharge (tRP): 3T 
SDRAM Active to Precharge Delay (tRAS): 7T 
SDRAM Command Control: 1T 
SDRAM Bank Interleave: 4 Banks 
Memory Voltage: motherboard default* 

These are suggested timings from the manufacturer, your ram can run at higher or lower (at your own risk) timings. Remember for best performance results its always best to run the RAM and CPU FSB in SYNC on an nForce2 motherboard, the ASUS A7N8X being no exception.


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Corsair recommends the following settings for their XMS3200C2 and XMS3500C2 modules:


This is where my confusion comes in:

The memory I am buying is referred to as "CMX" and not "XMS"- It's the CMX that was tested in the Nforce board and it comes in packages of two. I cannot find just one but I'm sure they must make them.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Re: Warranties

The shop I am buying my computer at says that they give an instore warranty of 1 year for oem products and 30 days for Retail products. The video card and the cpu are both retail products. 

For additional money they also offer 1,2,and 3 year warranties.

Would the video card and cpu show a defect in 30 days? Should I be buying an extended warranty? 

BRONZE 
- 1 Year On-Site Warranty
- 3 year limited hardware warranty
- 3 years labour warranty
- 1st year is onsite*
- $35 / hour onsite labour warranty** 

$125 

SILVER 
- 2 Year On-Site Warranty 
- 3 year limited hardware warranty
- 3 years labour warranty
- 1st and 2nd year onsite*
- $30 / hour onsite labour warranty**

$225 


GOLD 
- 3 Year On-Site Warranty
- 1 year instant exchange 
- 3 year limited hardware warranty
- 3 year labour warranty
- 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year onsite*
- $25 / hour for onsite labour*


$300 

* Software problems are not covered by this warranty (hardware problems only).
* Onsite calls that are due to user error are not covered by this warranty.
** first and second year covered / onsite will be charged for user error only

Thanks!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:

A BOXED cpu comes with 3 YEAR MANUFACTURER WARRANTY:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_867_1034,00.html

If this is your HDD, it should have 3 YEAR MANUFACTURER WARRANTY(actually, whatever HDD you choose should come with this warranty):

WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD800JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY 
Specifications: 
Size: 80 Gigabytes 
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100 
Seek time: 8.9ms 
RPM:7200 
Cache 8MB 
OEM(Drive alone) 3 Year Manufacturer Warranty

The ASUS mobo should be 3 YEAR WARRANTY:

http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7n8x/overview.htm

This should be the memory; it comes with LIFETIME MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY:

http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/products/specs/twinx1024-3200ll.pdf

For your ATI 9700Pro(make sure it's a "BUILT BY ATI, RETAIL), it will have 3 YEAR MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY:

http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/radeon9700pro/specs.html

The LiteOn CDRW and DVD units both have 1 YEAR MANUFACTURER WARRANTY:

http://www.liteonit.com/english/new_p_e/english--p-rw522452.htm

http://www.jlms.com.tw/new_p_E/jlms_165X.htm

The Antec case has 3 YEAR MANUFACTURER WARRANTY:

http://www.antec-inc.com/support_AQ3Warranty.html

Make sure the system estimate shows the components specifed are under these warranties that are listed above. The builder can increase profits dramatically by using 1 YEAR WARRANTY PARTS! (This is a "win" for him, "lose" for you proposition). The old saying "If it makes it through the first year, it's gonna be okay" isn't true! Seen alot of repairs(of OTHER brands) flood in after 15 to 30 month use. Making sure you get ALL high quality components(with manufacturer warranties like above) may increase the price but it's worth it. Your system could actually be built for appro. 30%+ less by using short term warranty parts. Make sure the builder is NOT using ANY lower quality parts. If you are going with the store you listed here, I suggest you purchase the BRONZE extended warranty for $125.00. (the 3 yr. labor warranty is worth the $125). The only software proble guaranteed by the shop will be that Windows(WinXP Pro) is installed and working properly when it left the shop. I suggest you provide the info, etc. for your Internet Service Provider,etc. so this system is COMEPLETELY SETUP and TESTED BEFORE it EVER leaves the shop( and provide any printer, digital camera(peripheals) info so ALL the drivers are installed and EVERYTHING WORKS BEFORE you get it home. Of course, if they are coming to the house to set it up (like MOST hometown shops do), some of this can be done then. WinXP can be a PAIN when installing things, so leave the responsibility of that to them(I don't think they'll relish that thought!). This is why i find it hard to believe they will do this for $50.00. I'm sorry but I'm real hardcore about this type of stuff!!!!!



> * Software problems are not covered by this warranty (hardware problems only).





> * Onsite calls that are due to user error are not covered by this warranty.





> ** first and second year covered / onsite will be charged for user error only


 MOST of the time the errors and failures are located between the KEYBOARD and the SEAT of the desk chair!!!! Therefore the above quotes are standard.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Thanks for all the terrific information! I am so appreciative of the time that you have spent in helping me.



> Originally posted by StillLearnin': This is why i find it hard to believe they will do this for $50.00. I'm sorry but I'm real hardcore about this type of stuff!!!!!


They probably do not do as thorough a job as you do! They also told me that they were going to put a seal on the case and as long as I didn't break the seal, I could do any changes I want - upgrade, add a component whatever and even if I didn't buy the component from them, they would install it at no charge.



> MOST of the time the errors and failures are located between the KEYBOARD and the SEAT of the desk chair!!!!


LOL! Good one!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I'm back with more decisions to be made. I was persistent - very persistent and found the AOC 9KLR monitor in a store that is about 40 miles away. I spoke to someone there on the phone and he tells me that I will be sorry if I buy it. He says it is an excellent corporate monitor but I need the Samsung 955DF or the Samsung 957MB for gaming. I have no idea why and didn't press him further. It would cost me $200 more for the Samsung.
Will you comment on this please?

He also said the I should buy the Antec Sonata - specs to follow instead of the Antec Plus 1080 AMG tower. It would cost me $50 less for the Sonata.

16.75" High, 8.13" Wide, 18.25" Deep
3* 5.25" bays, 2* 3.5" bays, 4* HD bays
7 Expansion slots
Up to 2* 120MM Fans (comes with rear fan)
20.8 lbs net weight (25lbs gross weight)
Front mounted USB, Firewire, and Audio
Washable Air Filter
Internal drive trays with rubber grommets
Comes with all screws / mounts
Antec True Power 380W Power Supply

I need your advice once again.

Thank you!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: How coincidental. I was just thinking about you the last couple of days.



> I spoke to someone there on the phone and he tells me that I will be sorry if I buy it. He says it is an excellent corporate monitor but I need the Samsung 955DF or the Samsung 957MB for gaming.


 The guy is full of SH*T! Oops, gotta watch the language. I have nothing against either of the Samsung monitors. However, they offer nothing more for the $200 difference. I think the guy's trying to score some extra profit!

"Your work never looked as good as it will on the Samsung SyncMaster 955DF. Whether your work is graphic design, charts and graphs, or web research, you'll see it more clearly on this truly flat display." Maximum Resolution: 1600x1200 @ 68Hz
Best Resolution: 1280x1024 @ 75Hz. Dot Pitch: .20 (horiz)

"The Samsung SyncMaster 957MB is a three-in-one 19-inch CRT monitor featuring three separate brightness modes optimized for a variety of PC, Internet and entertainment applications." Maximum Resolution: 1920x1440 @ 64Hz
Best Resolution: 1600x1200 @ 75Hz Dot Pitch: .20 (horiz)

AOC 9KLR 19IN FLAT MONITOR Dot Pitch .21(horiz) [email protected] Maximum Resolution: 2048 x 1536 @ 75Hz

* Aperture Grille pitch is measured diagonally. Shadow mask pitch is measured horizontally.

Just to be sarcastic; I don't see anything in the Samsung descriptions claiming greatness in gaming (they work fine though).

It might be interesting to note that we just built an A7N8X, 3000+ Barton cpu, 512MB(PC3200), etc. along with an AOC 19" monitor for a John Deere exec and his comment was,"Holy Sh*t. This thing's AWESOME!" It was built for gaming ONLY. We have HUNDREDS of these 15", 17", and 19" CRT & LCD monitors being used everyday for years without complaints or problems. Any upgrade by the customers is " Bigger"!

As far as the Antec case, we only use Antec for Servers (occasionally) and then we order them with NO power supply and put in the StarTech line of power supplies. Hopefully some Antec enthusiasts will jump in with some advice. From what I could see from researching on the web, the Sonata seems to be pretty decent. I won't elaborate since we don't use them for PCs.

I just realized these cases are BLACK! Remember that all components and monitor should be black also and this will cause a slight increase in cost. (Well it would look better all one color!)

I can't qualify a Samsung monitor for the price difference and hope some more responses on the case appear.


----------



## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

have you not considered making the most of those serial ata connectors and go for a faster ATA150 drive or at least an ATA133.

And what about an ATI 9800 card? or the FX5800 from nVidia, or if you want to stick with the 9700pro what about an All in wonder option so you can catch TV and edit video easily.


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> The guy is full of SH*T!


 AOC it is. He said they do not have it in but he should be getting it in by the end of next week. Do I have to worry that they do not have an authorized service dealer around here?


> It might be interesting to note that we just built an A7N8X, 3000+ Barton cpu


As an aside is the 3000+ Barton *that* much faster than the 2500 Barton. There is a $300 difference in price![/QUOTE] 


> and his comment was,"Holy Sh*t. This thing's AWESOME!"


 That's what I'm going to say when I get mine. [/QUOTE] 


> As far as the Antec case, we only use Antec for Servers (occasionally) and then we order them with NO power supply


I'll just choose one and make sure that I have about 430 power source. Thanks for pointing out that it is black. I do not want black.

Thank you ! Once again!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy



> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *have you not considered making the most of those serial ata connectors and go for a faster ATA150 drive or at least an ATA133.*


*

There is a Maxtor for about the same price - a wee bit cheaper actually - that is ATA133 but only 2mb cache rather than the WD 8mb. The salesman thought that a larger cache would be better than a faster drive. I am open to opinions on this. 




And what about an ATI 9800 card? or the FX5800 from nVidia, or if you want to stick with the 9700pro what about an All in wonder option so you can catch TV and edit video easily.

Click to expand...

*There's $100 difference and we won't be using it for TV. We may edit some pictures but not in a serious way so I thought that I would get what StillLearnin' calls "Top of the Hill". 

Thanks very much for your comments.

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

How much are they quoting on this drive, which comes with 2 or 8mb cache and serial or ATA133

http://www.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/desktop/diamondmax_plus_9/index.htm


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *How much are they quoting on this drive, which comes with 2 or 8mb cache and serial or ATA133
> 
> http://www.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/desktop/diamondmax_plus_9/index.htm *


Maxtor 80 Gig 7200RPM ATA133 Hard Drive 2MB CAN$134.75

Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM ATA100 8MB Hard Drive CAN$154.75

I am not able to get the Diamondmax here and do not want to buy online.

What do you think of the rationale?


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

The 8mb cache drive will out perform a 2mb cache drive, so the rationale of choosing the 8mb cache even on a slower ATA is sound.

Its just a pity you could not get a serial ata drive, i believe that they come with 8mb cache and at ATA150!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy



> Originally posted by zeddy:
> Its just a pity you could not get a serial ata drive, i believe that they come with 8mb cache and at ATA150!


StillLearnin' had suggested a RAID setup. I will eventually get another hard drive and do that.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

zeddy:



> And what about an ATI 9800 card? or the FX5800 from nVidia, or if you want to stick with the 9700pro what about an All in wonder option so you can catch TV and edit video easily.


 Since the FX5800Ultra can't outperform the ATI 9700Pro and the 9800 Pro doesn't beat the 9700 enough to qualify the price diff, it is best to go with the 9700Pro.

You must also realize that vivienne lives in CANADA, so product accessiblity is somewhat limited and the system has been designed to meet budget constraints.



> As an aside is the 3000+ Barton *that* much faster than the 2500 Barton. There is a $300 difference in price!


 In my opinion NOT for $300, otherwise ,yes! I would wait for the faster BUS AMD cpus coming out before I'd buy a Barton 3000+ at current prices.



> AOC it is. He said they do not have it in but he should be getting it in by the end of next week. Do I have to worry that they do not have an authorized service dealer around here?


 You stymied me on this statement! The only way we were able to carry the AOC line for retail was to be an AOC Factory Authorized Service Center also!! I don't know what to say.............. Find out from the seller if the monitor should go bad , how the repair or return is handled. If YOU think it might be TOO much of a hassle, go ahead and get a Samsung. Of course I would find out the same info concerning the Samsung also.

At this point and time, a RAID setup in SATA isn't workable.


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Product accessibility is a problem in Canada! We can get items shipped to the UK from there often matching or beating UK prices.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin'
> In my opinion NOT for $300, otherwise ,yes! I would wait for the faster BUS AMD cpus coming out before I'd buy a Barton 3000+ at current prices.


Will the A7n8x - dlx motherboard support the the faster cpus?


> You stymied me on this statement! The only way we were able to carry the AOC line for retail was to be an AOC Factory Authorized Service Center also!!


I shall phone him Monday and get more details. Actually I think I'll just wait till you open up a shop here. I know a good location. 

Vivienne


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## Triple6 (Dec 26, 2002)

I might be mistaken but Canada/U.S. are the only places where you can buy 'Built By ATi' products and not just the 'powered by Ati'. 'Built by ATi' cards are apparently better then 'Powered by ATi'. Product accesiblity is not a problem in Canada at all for any product.

The 9700PRO is definitely a good choice to go with, but the others are just as good.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Triple6:_
> Product accesiblity is not a problem in Canada at all for any product.


There are a lot of products mentioned that I am only able to buy online or at inconvenience and/or shipping expense and I wasn't prepared to do that. So StillLearnin' was keeping it simple for me.



Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: The newcomers haven't invested the time into this thread (and your other related thread) to understand your situation and what has transpired over the last several weeks.



> Will the A7n8x - dlx motherboard support the the faster cpus?


 From the ASUS website for cpu support for the 3000+:

Motherboard Since PCB Since BIOS Memo 
A7N8X 1.04 1002 
A7N8X Deluxe 1.04 1002 
A7N8X-X ALL ALL 
A7V333 2.00 1016 
A7V333-X 2.01 1003 
A7V8X 1.04* 1011 *Only with a FSB333 sticker on south bridge. 
A7V8X-X ALL ALL

Thanks for the positive expansion invitation but, I don't think the city/county entities, the medical field, and all the other industries, research organizations, local businesses, etc. would appreciate us leaving the area. It's too hard to find QUALIFIED personnel(believe it or not) to even expand here let alone going out of state to another country even.( Oh G*D, can you imagine all the extra paperwork, etc.?).



> The 9700PRO is definitely a good choice to go with, but the others are just as good


 Check the hardware reviews and you will see the Nvidia FX 5800Ultra will NOT beat( any score bigger by less than 5% is not considered "faster") the ATI 9700 and the ATI 9800 does, but not enough to justify the cost difference.


----------



## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

> vivienne: The newcomers haven't invested the time into this thread (and your other related thread) to understand your situation and what has transpired over the last several weeks.


Sorry didn't know it was a private thread!

Just trying to be helpful and I have read the thread through.

Just to add completeness there are reported problems with the NForce 2 boards, with posts over the net particularly with ram problems when more than one stick is installed.

BTW given the nVidia driver history you can expect a significant improvement in the FX5800 figures as the drivers mature, ATI (and this is from an ATI advocate, just don't produce the same kind of driver improvements - although the catalyst series has improved things somewhat).


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: The newcomers haven't invested the time into this thread (and your other related thread) to understand your situation and what has transpired over the last several weeks.


I know and appreciate this.


> From the ASUS website for cpu support for the 3000+:
> Motherboard Since PCB Since BIOS Memo
> A7N8X Deluxe 1.04 1002


I am guessing that this means I have to buy that particular version board.


> Thanks for the positive expansion invitation but, I don't think the city/county entities, the medical field, and all the other industries, research organizations, local businesses, etc. would appreciate us leaving the area.


I was being selfish but I keep thinking how nice it could be. 

There is a special here on the ATI All in Wonder 9700 PRO. It is now$40 more than the 9700 PRO. We wouldn't use it for TV. Is it worth the price difference for the editing functions?

RE: AOC - I have been told that if it is defective, I can bring it into the store for 30 days. For the first year they have the EASE program and I can ship it back with no shipping costs. After that I have to ship it to them with a one way shipping cost as long as it is still under warranty. After the warranty I am responsible for both ways shipping. I think I'm giving up and going for the Samsung 955DF for a $50 increase in price. ( This is not the same model that was almost $200 more). Agreed?
Thanks for all your patience and all the time that you are spending! It is *very* much appreciated.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by zeddy:
> Sorry didn't know it was a private thread!


Oh my gawd Zeddy! That's not what he meant. It's just that StillLearnin' has been helping me (patiently and rationally) from day one and knows all the agonizing that I have been going through. 


> Just trying to be helpful


I know and it's appreciated. You, by the way, were the reason I looked into the All in Wonder cards. You've not been ignored. But it's still StillLearnin' that I'm counting on to give the final okay.


> Just to add completeness there are reported problems with the NForce 2 boards, with posts over the net particularly with ram problems when more than one stick is installed.


I'm still trying to figure out how the *dual* memory works when three sticks are installed!

Thanks, Zeddy!

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Do you mind me asking how much you are being quoted by your retailer for all the Kit?


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *Do you mind me asking how much you are being quoted by your retailer for all the Kit? *


ATI Radeon 9700PRO 519.95
Samsung 955DF 19" Dyna-flat 379.95
DDR-RAM Corsair PC3200 (400)
512 MB TwinXDual Channel 256.95
Antec Plus 1080 AMG Tower 224.75
with 430 W ps 
Asus A7N8X-DLX NForce 2 209.95 
motherboard
AMD Athlon (Barton)2500XP 202.75
WD 80GB 7200 RPM 154.75
8 MB cache 
Lite-on LTR52246S 52x24x52 79.75
CDRW
Pioneer 16x DVD 40x IDE Tray 68.75
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 39.75
with Optical Tech
3.5" Panasonic 1.44 MB Floppy 15.95

Total 2153.05 Cdn Dollars

Free installation - sealed case- any upgrades or changes installed for free because of sealed case even if component is not purchased from them.

Some items were a bit cheaper elsewher but they will not match prices. For the whole thing, though, it was competitive price with other dealers.


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

I think that price is excellent - you would not get near that quality of kit here in the UK for that price, converted to UK pounds it comes in at £961.

The components chosen are all quality!

Stillearning has served you well!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy



> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *I think that price is excellent - you would not get near that quality of kit here in the UK for that price, converted to UK pounds it comes in at £961.
> 
> The components chosen are all quality!
> ...


  I know.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> I'm still trying to figure out how the *dual* memory works when three sticks are installed!


I was rereading your replies and I understand it - finally!

There are two slots that are one channel and one slot that is the second channel and the memory has to be balanced.

Yay!

Thanks!!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> Hi StillLearnin'
> 
> There is a special here on the ATI All in Wonder 9700 PRO. It is now$40 more than the 9700 PRO. We wouldn't use it for TV. Is it worth the price difference for the editing functions?


I could just buy editing software if it were necessary - right? I imagine it would do just as good a job and for now I could save the $40.00.

I'm ready to go! I can't stand waiting for price drops anymore. I am going to go in on Friday and give them a deposit and go ahead with it. The longer I wait, the more chance I have for agonizing some more. 

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

zeddy: Sorry to be so short with my comment. It didn't come across the way I thought it sounded!!!???? Here's another link to help you catchup on viviennes' journey:

http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127943

vivienne:



> I am guessing that this means I have to buy that particular version board.


 No you don't HAVE to, but that is the version mobo and BIOS for the Barton 3000+ that you inquired about.

The board version now should be high enough to not have any problems, besides there are BIOS updates that should take care of any of the original minor problems encountered. (use the 1.16 drivers from the ASUS website! The 2.x drivers on nvidia's site are actually OLDER than the 1.x asus branded ones)(Flash the new 1002 bios. It's much more stable than the 1001G that seems to be shipping w/ the board atm.)

Stick with the ATI 9700Pro and worry about the editing software later. Like I said, if it's too much hassle, go with the Samsung.

An early new bench comparing the highend ATI cards and the highend Nvidia cards. Supposedly ATI will be releasing the 9800Pro successor later in the summer(designed to totally destroy Nvidia, can't wait to see this!).

http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030512/geforce_fx_5900-25.html

What warranty are you going with?

Are you going to run Win2000Pro (My Favorite) or WinXP Pro? Whatever you do, DON"T get WinXP HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's really late and I need to get some sleep, however when looking over the component list where's the MODEM? Did I forget that or are you going to use broadband?

Later.....................................


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

What sort of sound set up are you going for? just keeping to the onboard? with what speaker setup?


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> The board version now should be high enough to not have any problems, besides there are BIOS updates that should take care of any of the original minor problems encountered. (use the 1.16 drivers from the ASUS website! The 2.x drivers on nvidia's site are actually OLDER than the 1.x asus branded ones)(Flash the new 1002 bios. It's much more stable than the 1001G that seems to be shipping w/ the board atm.)


Thanks - I shall ask the shop to do this for me although they did say they don't flash bioses - they just get me the board with the latest bios.


> Stick with the ATI 9700Pro and worry about the editing software later.


Okay.


> Like I said, if it's too much hassle, go with the Samsung.


It saddens me not to have the AOC but I think having an authorized repair depot is important - especially with something the size of a monitor. I tried talking my husband into driving it down if it needs service and he just rolled his eyes. LOL!


> An early new bench comparing the highend ATI cards and the highend Nvidia cards. Supposedly ATI will be releasing the 9800Pro successor later in the summer(designed to totally destroy Nvidia, can't wait to see this!).


I can't believe how quickly new things come out. My system is already obsolete and it's just in the thinking stage. 


> What warranty are you going with?


The salesman suggested that I just go with their standard warranty as I can bring defective components to them and pay shipping costs and they'll look after the rest. I still think I'll take the 3year parts and labour warranty that you suggested as the offer to look after things is only for the first year. Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to agonize about that one. If I do not get the warranty the components will be warrantied for an extra year because I am using a credit card with that feature. By taking the extended warranty that feature is no longer good. Do you still think it's a good idea to take the warranty? I'll go with your suggestion.[/QUOTE]


> Are you going to run Win2000Pro (My Favorite) or WinXP Pro? Whatever you do, DON"T get WinXP HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ugh! Ugh! Ugh! We already have WINXP HOME and what I thought was have that one installed with it and watch for sales on the XPPro.[/QUOTE]



> It's really late and I need to get some sleep


Oh my gawd StillLearnin' - I looked at the time of your post!!! It's almost time to wake up. I can't believe your energy!!!


> however when looking over the component list where's the MODEM? Did I forget that or are you going to use broadband?


 You didn't forget it. I am using cable.

By the way, the cost in US funds is $1529. How does that compare with prices in the US?

Thanks again!

Vivienne

To Zeddy:

I am using the onboard sound and have some old speakers - ya, I know. This computer is for the grandchildren, as StillLearnin' knows, and they will be the ones who decide if they want to upgrade or not.

Your comments are appreciated.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Build time is drawing near!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!!

Let's start with the bad first:



> Thanks - I shall ask the shop to do this for me although they did say they don't flash bioses - they just get me the board with the latest bios.


 The mobo probably won't have the latest released BIOS and if they CANNOT or WILL NOT upgrade the BIOS along with ALL the OTHER DRIVERS, then they are COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT and you need to grab your wallet and RUN from that store!!!!!!!!!!!! Find someone else as these are everyday things that are done when setting up a new system! If they don't do things like this:



> The board version now should be high enough to not have any problems, besides there are BIOS updates that should take care of any of the original minor problems encountered. (use the 1.16 drivers from the ASUS website! The 2.x drivers on nvidia's site are actually OLDER than the 1.x asus branded ones)(Flash the new 1002 bios. It's much more stable than the 1001G that seems to be shipping w/ the board atm.)


 There WILL BE PROBLEMS ( either with them trying to assemble it or else an unreliable/unstable system for you.) There are things like above that are very important to be implemented so a system can run at its maximum efficiency with NO malfunctions. I don't care what kind of warranty a person gets, if the system isn't built properly, there are headaches beyond belief! I guess I mean this: If this shop DOESN'T do like you said above(no flashing etc.), then shabby and incompetent knowledge/workmanship prevails and I wouldn't insult you by recommending you go there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These people are BOGUS! That's how these PREDATORS stay in business by taking advantage of an (formerly that is) unsuspecting, non-tech expertise person like yourself!!!!!!! (Gotta calm down. Places like that REALLY P*SS ME OFF!!!!!!!).

Okay, on to the operating system WinXP Pro is much more stable and hardware/software compatible than WinXP HOME. Spend the money to either get Win2000 Pro or WinXP Pro to be installed at the build time. This particular system setup doesn't get along with the HOME version anyway.



> By the way, the cost in US funds is $1529. How does that compare with prices in the US?


 If you lived here where I'm at(and were a PREFERRED CUSTOMER, -- since we try to stay away from home builds) this is what it would be from us:

The exact system as you listed it, including:

Win2000Pro, 
Win OFFICE 2000 SBE (NO Charge)
Norton SystemWorks 2003 (No Charge)
Easy CD Creator Platinum(Burner software; Not the BASIC version) (No Charge)
Zone Alarm(Firewall)Free version; Suggest you purchase and install Zone Alarm Pro, especially using a broadband connection(and YES the WinXP version firewall sucks)(No Charge)
Suggest you purchase a 500w UPS(backup/surge suppressor)
All parts are Boxed/Retail(3 yr.)
3 year parts and labor warranty/guarantee
State/Local Tax
Labor

Total: out the door and DELIVERED/SETUP at your home price:

$2276.50

I went to several websites (legitemate vendors for builds using quality components and warranty) and designed the exact same system(without the free extras, of course) and the average cost ran about $1900-$2000. Considering this is a mailorder and the tech support will probably be less than hoped for, you can see our prices are competetive. Example: A competitors bid here in town substituting some inferior parts( unknown to the avg. joe) $1911.57...CARRYOUT and don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!!!!!!!



> By the way, the cost in US funds is $1529.


 For 3 year parts etc., our cost is MORE than THAT!!!!!!!!!



> I can't believe how quickly new things come out. My system is already obsolete and it's just in the thinking stage.


 THAT NEVER CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've got a really good, super fast system design there with quality components. But to be honest, I'm concerned with the COMPETENCE level of the store you're dealing with. If they can't/won't flash a BIOS, I don't see any great shakes coming from them in the tech support arena!!!!!!( or even standing behind the warranty).


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Build time is drawing near!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!!*


*

:-( Maybe not. I'm finding that perhaps things are getting more expensive than I thought. :-( The Windows XPPRO has sort of gotten it over the top. Remember the other system you told me about - the one with the A7V333-X/L board? What if I jazzed that one up? It would take cheaper memory and I could still go with the ATI 9700 PRO (unless the 8500 LE is going to be great as well. There is a tremendous saving there and I could go AMD Athlon XP2600 maybe for faster? I'll then be able to afford the Windows XPPro as well.

Ugh! I hate to do this to you but could we have a look at that again? I have to go out soon and when I get back I will price things again using your other setup.

I am worried about the shop now and am worried about any shop and would like something that isn't going to be too finicky for anyone to do. Maybe something I could even fiddle with if they do not do it right.

I'm back to nowhere and feel especially bad for you because you have put in so much time and energy helping me out.

I am so sorry.

Big hug

Vivienne*


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: It's not just this particular system! What I said previously goes for ANY new build!!

You can always go with the ATI 9500Pro card and I know you won't be disappointed! Can you find that monitor any cheaper somewhere else? You could also go with the same amount of PC2700 memory instead of the PC3200. An Enlight, Inwin or Antec mid-tower case with a 350w/360w should be plenty fine for this system at this time. Only if you notice a power drop after adding more drives,etc. could you go ahead and upgrade to a bigger power supply.

Here's a link for you listing the top Canadian vendors:

http://www.computers-canada.com/top100/index.html

Checkout this system I put together from a highly ranked Canadian vendor:

http://www.ncix.com/pc.php?action=GetPrice&BuilderTagEdit=1017216&platformid=1000&platform=Amd

An AOC 19" monitor, ATI 9600Pro card, Win2KPro(XP is a little cheaper), Antec case with big enough power supply for now(if adding more HDDs, etc. and you need to upgrade, you can);

$1929.26CND That's cheaper than the previous price and from someone who could possibly be a much better vendor. Years ago I bought through the mail(more than once) and never really had any bad experiences and actually wouldn't be afraid to do it again if I couldn't find someone local that I felt was competent enough to do the job.

I don't think we have to scrap this system. Even what I listed above is more than you really need for a long time. These systems just can't be described about how fast they really are!!!!


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Blimey! what has happened, the rig seems to be imploding. I understand the issue about bios updating, but surely this is an issue with the mail order setup.

As you know Stillearning updating the Asus bios is probably the easiest to do, don't have to boot to dos it can all be done in windows.

In terms of an alternative (although the VIA KT400 chipset is due a revision and performance of the KT333 is generally just as good) Here is a configured system, includes the Rad9700pro thus the difference in price, but it does include a nice aluminium case and a single 512mb chip of the excellent ocz ram. Windows XP and build are included but not shipping.

http://www.ncix.com/pc.php?action=GetPrice&BuilderTagEdit=1016196&platformid=1000&platform=Amd


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

zeddy: Computer shops that build alot of systems configure them from the ground up. This means flashing the BIOS, installing the proper Nvidia drivers, all the newest(not beta) hardware drivers along with all the newest(proven) software updates. Any tech that doesn't do these things when building a system should be fired and blackballed. It's people like that who give the industry a bad name! It's totally unfair to the consumer. As far as purchasing a system from a vendor such as we both referred to in this post, these things will have been done because the vendor doesn't want to mess around with sending it back/ forth, the lost downtime and the cost of shipping, handling etc. anymore than you do. Obviously you know the scope of what can happen/ does happen when you flash a BIOS, tell me; Would you want a store/shop to build you a system that CAN'T/WON'T even FLASH a BIOS so the system is upgraded as much as can be or would you question their abilities???? Back to the mail order mobo being flashed--- some suppliers will ship a mobo w/cpu/memory currently updated and tested, however it usually costs more. For an individual that's not very experienced it's worth the $40 - $65 to have that done for them. For a qualified computer shop it's a waste of money that has to be passed on to the customer. Although I would gladly accept $40 - $65 for about 2 minutes of work!!!! I wish I was more familiar with the Canadian vendors, although this NCIX outfit listed here isn't the first time I've heard of them(nothing bad that I recall).

vivienne: Are you still with us???????? No heart attacks I hope!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin' and Zeddy 


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> vivienne: It's not just this particular system! What I said previously goes for ANY new build!!


Thank you both! I feel much better now.

StillLearnin':

Thanks for the websites - the shop I was going to deal with is on the top 100 list with a 7.4 or something like that ranking. I have never been there and will go Friday and tell them exactly what I want and expect and go from there.

I also will contact the shop that I bought my present computer from. I know they are reputable but I question how knowledgeable they are as one of their advertised systems includes the motherboard I want to get and one stick 512MB OEM ram! :-( Anyway, I do now know what I want and what I expect so I will check their prices. What I really like is the WindowsXPPro for $100 OEM vs my store (DealsDirect) at $249.00. If their other prices are almost the same then I'm okay. They told me to email them what I need and they will send a quote. Maybe I'll go with the Radeon 9500 card as you suggest - What kind of difference is there between the two? What would be noticeable?

I really do not want to buy online. If, however, you do not think it is a bad idea then I will buy the AOC monitor and take my chances. If it needs repair, I will have to ship it off but I would have had to do that with buying online as well.



> I don't think we have to scrap this system. Even what I listed above is more than you really need for a long time. These systems just can't be described about how fast they really are!!!!


Thank you!!!!!!!

I'll get more information and post it tomorrow. I may order my computer on Friday after all.  

Thanks a million again.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin': vivienne: Are you still with us???????? No heart attacks I hope!!!!


LOL! I just got the notification of this post even though I posted to your previous one earlier. I'm still here and real happy - I'm going to change some of the items - the ATI card if you don't think I'll lose that much and maybe the power supply and maybe the monitor. I don't have to do that much changing if I buy from the store that has the OS at $100 OEM. I'll let you know more tomorrow. My plan is to still buy it on Friday.

I'm grinning ear to ear.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> Hi StillLearnin'
> 
> I don't have to do that much changing if I buy from the store that has the OS at $100 OEM.


:-( I made a mistake both stores are $249 for Windows XP PRO.
I can still do the system using the ATI Radeon 9500 PRO, though. Tell me again what would go wrong if I just used Windows XP. Is it a stability issue? Like would it freeze all the time? I can give up the ATI Radeon 9700 PRO (what is it exactly am I giving up?)or use Windows XP and sometime later go to WinXP PRO and therefore eventually have both.

This is my only dilemma, now. So I'm a go for Friday. 

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Glad to see your still stable and sane about this situation! 
Now, about this monitor situation; you never said what happens if you get the Samsung and something goes wrong. Is there any difference in time/money in which the warranty is handled than with the AOC?



> Maybe I'll go with the Radeon 9500 card as you suggest - What kind of difference is there between the two? What would be noticeable?


 http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/oc_r9600_pro.shtml

Notice the test system used in the bench test...........

In most all of the synthetic benchmarks there is approx. 2500 - 2700 points higher score with the 9700Pro. The 9500Pro can be overclocked to almost 9700 speed without hurting it or overheating it. It looks like the 9500Pro(9600Pro is usually cheaper than the 9500Pro and a little slower; remember it is a brand new manuf. process so driver configuration is important)) runs about $200 - $250 less than the 9700Pro. That would more than take care of the diff. for WinXP Pro.



> Is it a stability issue?


 The non pro version has numerous compatability problems with hardware AND software. It isn't nearly as stable and error messages are quite common. It actually performs slower(verified in bench tests). Driver installations or updates can be real disasters in the HOME version.

If you have XP HOME , you should be able to "Upgrade to XP Pro" for approx. $125.00 anyway.

I still think you should be able to go with the original system with WinXP Pro by "Upgrading to XP Pro from XP HOME".

ATI Radeon 9700PRO 519.95
Samsung 955DF 19" Dyna-flat 379.95
DDR-RAM Corsair PC3200 (400)
512 MB TwinXDual Channel 256.95
Antec Plus 1080 AMG Tower 224.75
with 430 W ps 
Asus A7N8X-DLX NForce 2 209.95 
motherboard
AMD Athlon (Barton)2500XP 202.75
WD 80GB 7200 RPM 154.75
8 MB cache 
Lite-on LTR52246S 52x24x52 79.75
CDRW
Pioneer 16x DVD 40x IDE Tray 68.75
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 39.75
with Optical Tech
3.5" Panasonic 1.44 MB Floppy 15.95

Total 2153.05 Cdn Dollars


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: I just noticed the number of views of this thread (493). Whew, alot of people following this saga! Once this system is built and in use there will probably be 33%(of the views) new systems ordered/built to these specs. Consider yourself a pioneer!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Glad to see your still stable and sane about this situation! *


*

 It's thanks to your calm and rational manner as well as your knowledge and kindness. Zeddy's "Blimey" really helped as well. I laughed when I read it.



Now, about this monitor situation; you never said what happens if you get the Samsung and something goes wrong. Is there any difference in time/money in which the warranty is handled than with the AOC?

Click to expand...

The Samsung is much easier and cheaper if something goes wrong. The first 90 days I bring it to the store I bought it from. After that I bring it to an authorized repair depot located in our city. Samsung and LG both use the same one. With AOC, I am sent free a replacement monitor in the first year and after that I have to ship it back at my expense but for two years I do not have to pay shipping back. After the total of three years are up, I am responsible for all shipping charges. Asd well, my husband does not like the idea of having to keep the box that the monitor came in forever. 




In most all of the synthetic benchmarks there is approx. 2500 - 2700 points higher score with the 9700Pro. The 9500Pro can be overclocked to almost 9700 speed without hurting it or overheating it.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to overclock because I'm just not adventuresome enough to try. I do not mind learning how but I know I won't do it. I took a course on building a computer and I won't build one either. It was made to look so simple. You just plug everythng in and away you go. Takes two hours. Yeah, right.




If you have XP HOME , you should be able to "Upgrade to XP Pro" for approx. $125.00 anyway.

Click to expand...

$249.00 for the upgrade version OEM and $50 more for the upgrade version not OEM. It costs $499.00 not upgrade version. Is there a big difference in OEM? Is it worth the $50 more to be able to use it on any computer we want to in the future? I think it also has to go through an activation process so we couldn't use it on two cmputers.




I still think you should be able to go with the original system with WinXP Pro by "Upgrading to XP Pro from XP HOME".

Click to expand...

I like this idea best and will make that happen. It was silly of me to freak over the Windows XPPRO. I just never figured that at all in the cost, Even though you warned me way back when that I should get this OS, I really wasn't planning to. The benefits seem well worth it. Thank you for persisting.

When I go on Friday, I shall ask for:

Motherboard revision 2 - flash bios - use 1.16 drivers (is that the right terminology?)

Use Arctic Silver 3 paste for the heat sink (is that the right terminology)

Put CDRW and DVD in the case with a gap in between

Partition hard drive in 4 parts - 20 gig each

Install the hard drive we are not using as second drive - that way we will not lose anything.

Did I miss anything?

Thank you!!!

Vivienne*


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: I just noticed the number of views of this thread (493). Whew, alot of people following this saga! Once this system is built and in use there will probably be 33%(of the views) new systems ordered/built to these specs. Consider yourself a pioneer! *


 Well, you're the one that sweated this out!! I know that lots and lots of people must be thankful that you are on this board. I can't put into words how thankful *I* am.

By the way did you notice that I made 69 posts!!! I am a full member - no novice status for me. LOL!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I am presuming that all games that play on WindowsXP will run on Windows XP PRO. I know that you'll say yes - but for peace of mind I have to ask. 

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

make sure its formatted to FAT32 and not NTFS if you want max compatibility.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy



> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *make sure its formatted to FAT32 and not NTFS if you want max compatibility. *


Oh, really! Thank you for that.

It if were just Windows XP, would you format to FAT32 as well? Mine (Windows XP) is now formatted NTFS. I'm not against reformatting it.

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

For games I would


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy



> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *For games I would *


Thank you!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: I never got notified anyone had posted since my last one! Anyway,



> Zeddy's "Blimey" really helped as well. I laughed when I read it.


 I about had a heart attack when at this stage of the game the computer shop wouldn't flash a BIOS. Here we were, down to the next to the last lap of the race and BAM!! the race car disappears from the track! I was tired, p*ssed off, etc., etc., and zeddy pops up with the implosion bit. I cracked up laughing. I almost posted back to "Beam me up zeddy!" so I could be in the sanctuary of the Enterprise. That has to be one of the highlights of this thread!!!!



> I took a course on building a computer and I won't build one either. It was made to look so simple. You just plug everythng in and away you go. Takes two hours. Yeah, right.


 That's the BIG MISCONCEPTION most people have too. It takes half or better that amount of time to install and upgrade Windows! Speaking of which, we never use FAT32 except back in the Win98 series software. NTFS is faster and more stable( even for gaming). All systems here(gaming or otherwise) are NTFS formatted. That's why we still like Win2K Pro because it's NTFS and there aren't problems with compatiblity. XP Pro works fine setup that way also. Most incompatiblities are because of the way XP tries to manage everything. We never let Windows automatically do driver updates, or any configuration when it can be done manually. Manual installations (when done properly) lead to a more stable system also.



> I am presuming that all games that play on WindowsXP will run on Windows XP PRO. I know that you'll say yes - but for peace of mind I have to ask.


 Let's hope so! Oh, well I don't know why they wouldn't and probably will run better!



> Asd well, my husband does not like the idea of having to keep the box that the monitor came in forever.


 You should see the attic in my house!!!!!!!!



> Motherboard revision 2 - flash bios - use 1.16 drivers (is that the right terminology?)


 Do not request the revision 2 mobo. The more recent versions work better with the latest BIOS flash and the 1.16 drivers.



> Partition hard drive in 4 parts - 20 gig each


 Uhhhh, have I forgotten something. I don't recall deciding to this or why?



> Install the hard drive we are not using as second drive - that way we will not lose anything.


 I'm not sure how smoothly that will go................................ I would pull and save all DATA that was important( docs, email stuff, etc.). Any software installations already on the harddrive are usually better re-installed. If the second drive can't be recognized or cannot be read by Windows( in other words, no access to data on drive) at least they made copies which can be ghosted or moved back onto the refomatted drive.

AS for the XP OEM etc. thing, ONLY ONE COPY can be used per computer as the MS software makes a list of the hardware configuration, blah, blah blah, and that is ALSO why XP is such a pain in the but when it comes to upgrading or updating.

Gotta leave for awhile, back later!


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

Hey...bear with me as im interjecting just to say two cents....in response to your other system being NTFS...xp tends to prefer NTFS.....but this is for everyday use..if you are _just_ using it for games then go with fat 32....Defidently be glad still learning is working with you as he helped me build my current system and i am in love with it. As for online parts, i know shipping costs can be annoying..but there ARE ways around it. I was introduced to newegg.com which provides many great products for cheap costs and free shipping on many items..but i totally understand thats not what you need right now (im mentioning for the future).

I feel your pain about new technology being outdated...its always painful to see the rig you paid $1000 for going for $100 in a couple of years..but you have to compare to the past..even though your technology will be outdated..its still better then what you had in the past..no? Besides, you will hopefully be able to upgrade to make up for new technology. Best of luck! :-D for you the hardest part is over..it took me about a month before i could figure out what i wanted..and once that was done..i had to worry about building it ;-)


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Strewth mate ! I don't want to be a scunner but....

OK Stillearning,

You might be right and also wrong. The right file system for the wrong computer user?

From Anandtech:

_If you copy files between FAT and NTFS and security is a concern you will want to check the permissions tab to make sure you have the correct permissions enabled/disabled. What permissions will be set to upon copying/moving is entirely dependant upon whether you copy, move, and if its on the same partition/disk or a different partition/disk. Explaining NTFS permissions is really beyond the scope of the FAQ but if you are going to be using NTFS it would be wise to familiarize yourself with them. Make sure you have a full understanding of them before you begin changing permissions. It is possible to lock yourself out of a file or folder making access very difficult or even impossible in some cases._

_"Your normal software and games could not care less what file system they are being stored on. As long as its supported by the operating system you are using, there will be no problem. With NTFS, however, permissions can play a factor in whether a game runs correctly or not. If you dont have access to a particular file thats needed by the software, its not going to work. This is different than when a file is stored on FAT32, and is probably responsible for the mistaken belief that a game, or other software, must be compatible with NTFS. This is another good reason to familiarize yourself with the file and folder permissions in NTFS."_

http://8help.ohio-state.edu/34841.html

_The primary differences that will affect most users are the use of NTFS file system partitioning and Access Control. Really, the main benefits of NTFS are only realized in business use. The drawback to NTFS is you can accidentally make it harder, if not impossible, to access files on your computer, especially if something goes wrong. Windows XP Professional can convert your hard drive to NTFS. We recommend not doing this unless you understand the full ramifications of using NTFS. Access Control is another feature not needed for most home use. Misuse of Access Control can literally lock you out of your own computer, and is therefore not recommended for most people._

You are probably right - but does not NTFS need a bit of nouse to use if something goes wrong???


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by StillLearnin'
> I almost posted back to "Beam me up zeddy!" so I could be in the sanctuary of the Enterprise. That has to be one of the highlights of this thread!!!!


Yes. LOL!


> All systems here(gaming or otherwise) are NTFS formatted.


Okay.


> We never let Windows automatically do driver updates, or any configuration when it can be done manually. Manual installations (when done properly) lead to a more stable system also.


Ugh! I wouldn't know where to begin. I download the driver - click on it and it's installed. I didn't even know there was another way.


> You should see the attic in my house!!!!!!!!


I can imagine! LOL!


> Do not request the revision 2 mobo. The more recent versions work better with the latest BIOS flash and the 1.16 drivers.


Don't ask for any version? Just see what I get?


> Uhhhh, have I forgotten something. I don't recall deciding to this or why?


 We didn't discuss it. I thought this was what everybody did. No? I read that computers go faster, are better organized, etc. when done this way.


> I'm not sure how smoothly that will go................................ I would pull and save all DATA that was important( docs, email stuff, etc.). Any software installations already on the harddrive are usually better re-installed. If the second drive can't be recognized or cannot be read by Windows( in other words, no access to data on drive) at least they made copies which can be ghosted or moved back onto the refomatted drive.


I was just going to use this as the data drive so I wouldn't have to do all that. Why wouldn't the system recognize it? Wouldn't that only happen if the computer wasn't configured correctly? On my XP one partition is NTFS and it reads the FAT32 as well. 


> AS for the XP OEM etc. thing, ONLY ONE COPY can be used per computer as the MS software makes a list of the hardware configuration, blah, blah blah, and that is ALSO why XP is such a pain in the but when it comes to upgrading or updating.


The non OEM one works that way as well. I was told that the difference was that the OEM one always had to be on the computer it was put on and never could be transferred to another computer. I don't like that at all.


> Gotta leave for awhile, back later!


Okay. I'll be patient. 
Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325


> Originally posted by rosh325:
> if you are just using it for games then go with fat 32....


I am going to be using it for other things as well. I just wanted it optomized for games. It will be the only computer in the house.


> Defidently be glad still learning is working with you as he helped me build my current system and i am in love with it.


 You can't imagine how glad I am!! I would have been quite lost without him.


> Best of luck! :-D for you the hardest part is over..it took me about a month before i could figure out what i wanted


Thanks for the luck. This thread started on April 8th so I'm already beating you at deciding. My husband tells me a more descriptive word for what I have been doing is agonizing. LOL!

Thanks very much for your good wishes.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

rosh325: Nice to hear from you. How's that new system working for you? Thanks for the kind words, they're always appreciated in the Tech World more than people realize.

To everyone: When a computer is setup with Win2k or XP administrator rights have to be setup. To make a long story short, this controls user access; not the formatting in FAT32 or NTFS. Here's a link explaining in more depth:

http://www.resortdata.com/Customers/Knowledge/KB-DOS/K000119.htm

Some more excellent info on FAT32, NTFS:

http://www.ntfs.com/

http://www.ntfs.com/faq.htm

And of course, to back my play:

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm

http://www.ntfs.com/quest17.htm

The whole software environment is more stable, secure and MORE RECOVERABLE in NTFS.



> I was just going to use this as the data drive so I wouldn't have to do all that. Why wouldn't the system recognize it? Wouldn't that only happen if the computer wasn't configured correctly? On my XP one partition is NTFS and it reads the FAT32 as well.


 A new installation of WinXP Pro will "probably" not allow the drive to be seen or recognized since it was formatted and installed under a different Windows Operating System. This could happen and is quite common. (all these little pointers or tidbits are why we prefer Win2kPro; less problems doing this stuff). WinXP is the most finicky OS that MS has ever put out. WinME wasn't finicky, it just didn't work!!!!!



> Don't ask for any version? Just see what I get?


 I would ask what revision mobo they were using and ask that they Not use a revision 2.0 mobo. Might even give them this link:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=5bc91a43221f183f97db6f1678083540

More good info there than I can ever expound on!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> A new installation of WinXP Pro will "probably" not allow the drive to be seen or recognized since it was formatted and installed under a different Windows Operating System.


What if I wanted to do a dual boot thing - so they could use either hard drive?



> I would ask what revision mobo they were using and ask that they Not use a revision 2.0 mobo.


Confusion reigns. I thought I understood from what some of the guys were saying that it was revision 2.0 that they wanted.



> More good info there than I can ever expound on!


It's great!

StillLearnin' - you must be pulling your hair out with me. I can't find the words to tell you how much I appreciate your patience. Friday is soon coming - I haven't had a quote from the second store yet although they promised to give me a quote today. They don't carry Corsair memory and had to get a quote for me was the reason for the delay - but if I don't hear from them I will go to the original place and speak to them. In any case, the deed will be done soon - hopefully before your patience gives out.

You've been absolutely awesome! Thank you!!!

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

still learnin': Computer is great...upgrade my old POS 5400rpm drive to new 80gig 8mb cach maxtor..all is well

vivi: An alternative i found....if you use the old HDD in the new computer..you can boot from the xp cd.....press enter to agree......let it search for old versions of windows.....and follow the instructions to "repair" that version..this will remove old drivers and allow you to use old hdd in new computer w/o losing your stuff


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325



> vivi: An alternative i found....if you use the old HDD in the new computer..you can boot from the xp cd.....press enter to agree......let it search for old versions of windows.....and follow the instructions to "repair" that version..this will remove old drivers and allow you to use old hdd in new computer w/o losing your stuff


Please explain this again. If I am using WINXPPRO and it's not reading my WinXP drive, I do the above with my XP disk? It will repair my second drive and make it readable to PRO? Dare I even try! I thought if it didn't read it, I would put it into my old computer and then start saving it on CDs from there.

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

Hi...well im a little tired right now so i may be a little lost..refresh my memory again..how many drives are going into this......which will be the primary..and is the primary from the old machine......i used the aforementioned procedure when i built my old computer as i ONLY had my old drive and thus needed it to work as an alternative to getting a new. If however, you just want the data from the old computer on the new one..you can hook up the "new" drive to the computer as the master..format and partition..and then just hook up the old drive as a slave....i did that once i got a new drive (although after transfering i disconnected the old drive as it was slowing down my system)


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

found a great site that explains what i did:

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/rep... XP by Installing Over top of Existing Setup:


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325



> [ If however, you just want the data from the old computer on the new one..you can hook up the "new" drive to the computer as the master..format and partition..and then just hook up the old drive as a slave....i did that once i got a new drive (although after transfering i disconnected the old drive as it was slowing down my system) [/ QUOTE]
> 
> Gotcha! Thanks.
> 
> Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

a)check out the link above (it has pictures to explain what i mean)

b)im still wondering..what are your intentions regarding drive usage (are you reusing drive from old computer as primary...buying a new drive for primary?)


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

also earlier you mentioned partitioning the drive into 4...i disagree with that (as was already said)....you may hear that somepeople like to keep 2 partitions...one for windows files/page file..and one for software..i just have one large partition and all is fine...you also might partition if you wanted dual boot..and the only reason i can see that for the system you are building is game compatability...never the less...xp professional (after sp1) has a decent compatability wizard that allows you to choose what OS envirionment is required for the game


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Confusion reigns. I thought I understood from what some of the guys were saying that it was revision 2.0 that they wanted.


It's okay now - I am asking on the other board and hopefully I won't be so stunned.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325


> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *a)check out the link above (it has pictures to explain what i mean)*


*

The link didn't work for me. :-(

[/QUOTE]b)im still wondering..what are your intentions regarding drive usage (are you reusing drive from old computer as primary...buying a new drive for primary?) *[/QUOTE]

Buying a new drive for primary and I wanted to put in what is now my primary drive as a second drive for data.

From StillLearnin's response I think he agreed with you. I would want a partition to copy Drive Image files to for sure. I am hoping that if a drive crashes, some things will still be recoverable. Maybe I am taking too big a chance.

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

in that case you can do what i did: hook up the new drive as a primary and format/partition....once all is up and running..hook up your old hdd as the slave (make sure you have the jumper set correctly)....the old drive will appear under the my computer section...now just copy and paste stuff from your old drive to the new..once you are done/satisfied....disconnect the old on and store it somewhere safe (preferablly in the new drive's anti-static bag......that way you will always have a spare drive for those "what if" situations


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *in that case you can do what i did: hook up the new drive as a primary and format/partition....once all is up and running..hook up your old hdd as the slave (make sure you have the jumper set correctly)....the old drive will appear under the my computer section...now just copy and paste stuff from your old drive to the new..once you are done/satisfied....disconnect the old on and store it somewhere safe (preferablly in the new drive's anti-static bag......that way you will always have a spare drive for those "what if" situations *


Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: See ya roaming around on nforcershq checking things out. As far as the board revision goes, there are enough newer BIOS versions out that it won't make any diff which mobo you get. Here are some of the updates from the ASUS site that should be installed if the mobo doesn't already have the latest version:

Type FileName Version Date OS Description Download

usb20_wxp.zip - 2003/04/02 WinXP USB 2.0 driver for WinXP. More...

silicon_v100... V1.0.0.22 2003/01/29 WinXP Silicon Image Serial ATA driver version V1.0.0.22 and Utility V1.0.0.11 More...

nf2v116_wxp.zip 1.16 2003/01/29 WinXP NForce2 all in one version 1.16 driver for WinXP. Due to different naming rules, this 1.16 driver, though named 1.16, is still newer than the one on NVIDIA website. More...

3com_90xv54.zip v5.4 2002/11/04 WinXP 3COM PCI Lan WHQL Driver version 5.4 English Version. More...

Here are the various BIOS drivers that WILL(through one version or another, starting with the latest) work on the various revision mobos:

awdflash.zip V8.24B 2003/05/09 Award BIOS Flash utility for A7N8X series motherboard only More...

c18d1004.zip C1004 2003/04/25 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS C1004 for PCB revision 2.0 and later only. More...

c18d1003.zip C1003 2003/04/08 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS C1003 for PCB revision 2.0 and later only. More...

an8d1003.zip 1003 2003/04/03 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1003 for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

c18d1002.zip C1002 2003/03/25 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS C1002 for PCB revision 2.0 and later only. More...

an8d102a.zip 1002A 2003/02/26 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1002A for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

an8d1002.zip 1002 2003/01/30 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1002 for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

aw1001g.zip 1001G 2002/12/24 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1001G for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

aw1001e.zip 1001E 2002/12/23 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1001E for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

aw1001c.zip 1001.C 2002/11/01 A7N8X Deluxe BIOS 1001.C for PCB revision 1.03, 1.04, and 1.06 only. More...

Maybe the mobo that comes in(the BIOS) won't need to be updated(it does happen ya know!).

Now about this hard drive business:

If your old hard drive is a 7200 rpm, it can be used as a backup drive without slowing your system down. If it spins at 5400, it WILL slow things down. If not, purchase a 7200rpm 20G, 30G, 40G for a backup drive. The old(or second) drive would be configured as SLAVE. I understand what rosh325 is saying about transferring the data, however the chances of losing everything is VERY HIGH! A "repair" is what it says, not transferring data(etc.) as you're wanting to, but OVERWRITING other data(etc.). The minimal way to do it is explained here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q306187

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;306186

The shop can handle all of these things as this is everyday stuff!!!! We normally save the needed files (etc.) on one of our servers, reformat the extra drive and put the saved stuff back on the new drive( less chance of losing data).

The biggest reason to set multiple partitions on a HDD is to run multiple operating systems. You don't need to do this. Your drive will be formatted as one: (Drive:C). The backup drive should be designated as: Drive:F. DVD as: Drive. CDRW as: Drive:E. Floppy as: Drive:A. Memory card readers(etc.) will go from Drive:G on to the end of the alphabet. The Master(main) drive will be (C). The others could depend on how the shop assigns drive letters to them.

I know your anxiety level is high, but you really shouldn't worry so much about the mobo rev., data transfer, etc. as this is normal, everyday procedure in a shop when building new, upgrading or repairing systems.

Here's another tip for you:

When you get it home, then set it up, turn it on and NOTHING HAPPENS, don't freak. Just reach around behind the tower at the top where the power supply is and flip the power button on, then restart. It's pretty common to shut off the power supply when working on the computer(better than unplugging the power cord "live" from the power supply while the power supply is turned on).



> The link didn't work for me. :-(


 Me either. However alot of times if you delete( as in this link: after the xp) the rest of the url, you can USUALLY get on the site and find it from there.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

Don't ask me how that happy face got there because I don't know. Maybe it's a sign of something good to happen. Anyway, it should say: DVD as: Drive D


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: See ya roaming around on nforcershq checking things out. *


*

In an earlier post, I said that I would do that so you didn't have to go searching again. But you did, anyway. Thanks!!




Maybe the mobo that comes in(the BIOS) won't need to be updated(it does happen ya know!).

Click to expand...

That would be wonderful.



The old(or second) drive would be configured as SLAVE.

Click to expand...

And used just for storage of files and drive image stuff.




I know your anxiety level is high, but you really shouldn't worry so much about the mobo rev., data transfer, etc. as this is normal, everyday procedure in a shop when building new, upgrading or repairing systems.

Click to expand...

If it were your shop - I'm losing confidence in shops. I've told two of them early in the week that I would be buying a computer on Friday - neither of them came back yet with quotes! I'm going tomorrow to the one that has always answered my calls, questions, etc.

Here's another tip for you:




When you get it home, then set it up, turn it on and NOTHING HAPPENS, don't freak.

Click to expand...

 Thanks. I would have freaked.

Well........Everything is settled and I know what I want. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I will let you know how it goes.

Vivienne*


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *Don't ask me how that happy face got there because I don't know. Maybe it's a sign of something good to happen. Anyway, it should say: DVD as: Drive D *


LOL! Thanks.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> In an earlier post, I said that I would do that so you didn't have to go searching again. But you did, anyway. Thanks!!


 Two reasons:

1. I wanted to see your question and see if you went to that website or a different one.

2. I wanted to do a little snooping around for myself! Might run across something new , ya know!



> And used just for storage of files and drive image stuff.


 Remember what I said about the hard drive speed. If you are going to be accessing this drive, make sure it's a 7200 rpm drive. Otherwise, I suggest you buy NO smaller than a 20/30 Gig drive for that use. You will also want to place your BACKUP Folder with the most recent system/data backup on that drive in case of the Master drive failing!



> Well........Everything is settled and I know what I want.


 It's the same thing you wanted on April 8th, you just didn't realize it!



> Thank you, thank you, thank you!


 Let's not get carried away with the thankfulness until this long-awaited dream is a reality!!!!!!!!! At the completion of this project when you have reached the level of satisfaction to be highly elated, I will then accept the many Thank yous given me and momentarily let myself wallow in "Super Ego" like a pig in a mudhole on a scorching Summer day!!!!!!!!



> I will let you know how it goes.


 Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> Remember what I said about the hard drive speed.


Okay.


> It's the same thing you wanted on April 8th, you just didn't realize it!


Oh my gawd this is true! LOL!


> Let's not get carried away with the thankfulness until this long-awaited dream is a reality!!!!!!!!! At the completion of this project when you have reached the level of satisfaction to be highly elated, I will then accept the many Thank yous given me and momentarily let myself wallow in "Super Ego" like a pig in a mudhole on a scorching Summer day!!!!!!!!


You know....you've put in so much time and so much effort and shared so much knowledge and put up with things that would turn off a saint, that you deserve all the accolades right now and of course, more even later. I have no doubt that our family is going to be ecstatic. We'd always gone with 'cheap' before and sufferred the consequences. I am so excited. I won't sleep tonight just waiting for the morning.


> Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/B]


LOL! And I can't wait to tell you. I'll post as soon as I get back. They open at 10 and I'll be waiting at the door. LOL!

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

vivi....i know its been a long journey..and at times it can be overwhelming...but just think how wonderful it will be seeing your grandkids reactions when you unveil this powerful machine. Hang in there..when i was building my computer i was ready to just scream and give up..i felt like there was so much pressure..but i now have bragging rights over my friends and know i could do it again....so just hang in there


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325


> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *vivi....i know its been a long journey..and at times it can be overwhelming...but just think how wonderful it will be seeing your grandkids reactions when you unveil this powerful machine. Hang in there..when i was building my computer i was ready to just scream and give up..i felt like there was so much pressure..but i now have bragging rights over my friends and know i could do it again....so just hang in there *


Thank you for that! I'll dream well tonight. Your support and encouragement has been appreciated.



Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

least i can do..this thread is my excitement for the day :-D


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

rosh325: My eyes are going closed and I can't think anymore. If you're going to be up for awhile, would you mind checking out this thread and see if you might be able to help this young person out? Link:

http://forums.techguy.org/t133884/s.html

Thanks, StillLearnin'


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Phenomenally good news and a slight delay.

I went to the shop this morning but the guy I have been dealing with is away for the long weekend ( It's a holiday here on Monday) So I will go back on Tuesday. When I was waiting for the doors to open, I talked to another customer waiting and told him how disappointed I was that I could not buy the AOC monitor. He told me that AOC gave me wrong information. They gave me the addresses of the repair depots but they have a place in my city where there is a drop in. I just have to bring it there and they ship it to the repair depots. I called them as soon as I got home and sure enough that is what they do. YAY!. The closest place to buy it is about 40 miles away and I will go there on Tuesday. 

It's now looking even better than I had hoped for.

Yay!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I went to the shop this morning but the guy I have been dealing with is away for the long weekend


 The real truth to that is the fella got wind of this thread you started and with this as evidence:

"Building High End Gaming Computer ( 1 2 3 4 ... Last page ) vivienne 104 replies 683 views 05-16 10:41 AM
by vivienne"

He decided he'd better get rested up and prepared for the challenge of his life as the "WORLD" watches to see how his system build turns out. Oh yea, the pressure, the pressure! Good news about AOC. I'm lovin' it!!!!! I may have to lay down and rest until Tuesday myself with all this excitement. If you don't hurry up, I'm going to have to build one of these for myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't ask me why, just because!


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

From Rosh325



> vivi....i know its been a long journey..and at times it can be overwhelming...but just think how wonderful it will be seeing your grandkids reactions when you unveil this powerful machine.


I hope they don't just get excited playing with the cardboard boxes!


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

zeddy: Thanks alot! Now I'll have that hanging over me until I find out differently. Talk about "implosion". Seriously. Unless I don't recall correctly, I thought that the grand"child" that this system was going to be for(mainly) was a software programmer or something!!!! Maybe I need a rolodex of various website forums and topics/threads that I'm on, to eliminate this mass confusion I'm having!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> The real truth to that is the fella got wind of this thread you started and with this as evidence:
> 
> "Building High End Gaming Computer ( 1 2 3 4 ... Last page ) vivienne 104 replies 683 views 05-16 10:41 AM
> by vivienne"
> ...


LOL!!!

Isn't it amazing about the length of the thread, etc. I was thinking about you said - that this was the computer I wanted on April 8th.  But look how much I've learned along the way. I could have gotten that computer built then and I wouldn't be as smart as I am now. 



> I may have to lay down and rest until Tuesday myself with all this excitement.


LOL!!!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Zeddy


> Originally posted by zeddy: I hope they don't just get excited playing with the cardboard boxes!


ROTFL!! You absolutely kill me! 

StillLearnin' remembers it right. It is primarily built with my oldest grandson in mind. He is a serious gamer and is learning how to program video games. He's quite serious about both the above.

A funny story - yesterday we were looking after my 5 year old granddaughter and I told her about each component I was putting in, etc. Ya, I know. I tell everyone who will listen and there are not many of them. Anyway, right now she is using an old 486 because of the dos pc games that we still have and that she loves. She asks me if she can play 'Sammy's Science House' on it and I tell her that I don't think so. "What good is this computer?" she asks.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

zeddy:



> StillLearnin' remembers it right. It is primarily built with my oldest grandson in mind. He is a serious gamer and is learning how to program video games. He's quite serious about both the above.





> A funny story - yesterday we were looking after my 5 year old granddaughter and I told her about each component I was putting in, etc. Ya, I know. I tell everyone who will listen and there are not many of them. Anyway, right now she is using an old 486 because of the dos pc games that we still have and that she loves. She asks me if she can play 'Sammy's Science House' on it and I tell her that I don't think so. "What good is this computer?" she asks.


 You see what we're dealing with here? 5 year olds who question the system's limitations. Maybe we better just switch to the 3200+ Barton(Duals even) and setup a dual cpu, 2 Gig memory SERVER with a minimum of 8 x 120Gig Hdds instead of a home PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vivienn:



> Isn't it amazing about the length of the thread, etc


 " Building High End Gaming Computer vivienne Hardware 109 Replies 705 Views 05-16-2003 12:27 PM
by vivienne"

" DDR memory for Asus nforce 2 vivienne Hardware 69 Replies 430 Views 04-15-2003 05:13 AM"
by vivienne

From 2 of your posts: 178 Replies, 1135 Views Whew!!!!


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

just to warn you.....you are probably going to annoy the hell out of your grandkids as you will be overprotective of this new beauty (and with good cause)..remind them some day of how many weeks it took to make this all possible


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *zeddy:
> You see what we're dealing with here? 5 year olds who question the system's limitations. Maybe we better just switch to the 3200+ Barton(Duals even) and setup a dual cpu, 2 Gig memory SERVER with a minimum of 8 x 120Gig Hdds instead of a home PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


*

ROTFL!!!




From 2 of your posts: 178 Replies, 1135 Views Whew!!!!

Click to expand...

* And most of the replies were from *you*.  Have you gotten any real work done this past month?

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi Rosh325


> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *just to warn you.....you are probably going to annoy the hell out of your grandkids as you will be overprotective of this new beauty (and with good cause)..remind them some day of how many weeks it took to make this all possible *


 You cannot imagine how happy I feel that they can do the things they want to do. They are appreciative kids so I can't lord it over them. 

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

thats good..i know if it was my computer that i built...i would probably yell at the grandkids "dont drink or eat near it"
or probably be over nerotic


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *thats good..i know if it was my computer that i built...i would probably yell at the grandkids "dont drink or eat near it"
> or probably be over nerotic *


 I already do that with the 486. 

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Actually it's been pretty slow. I think there was only 65 or 70 PCs built and a dozen servers in April and around 100 PCs and 7 Servers so far this month. I don't know offhand how many repairs or upgrades have been done, but they average around 15 - 25 per week. Of course the monthly maintenance contracts continue to grow. I actually only spend part of my time here as I own a Tree Service and Landscaping business that I've had for 30 years in the town I live in. I partnered up with a technical genius (MS Enterprise Certified, MS Developer, MS Engineer, etc., etc.) who actually runs the show. It's just a part- time thing with me. Although, I don't go to him for answers on the forums as I feel I should answer what I am qualified and knowledgeable at. You don't see me butting in on many network or corporate software problems.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Actually it's been pretty slow. I think there was only 65 or 70 PCs built and a dozen servers in April and around 100 PCs and 7 Servers so far this month. I don't know offhand how many repairs or upgrades have been done, but they average around 15 - 25 per week. Of course the monthly maintenance contracts continue to grow. *


*
It sounds impressive! *only* 65 or 70. 



I actually only spend part of my time here as I own a Tree Service and Landscaping business that I've had for 30 years in the town I live in.

Click to expand...

I can't believe you! You're amazing. How different the two businesses are! I have a new idea now. Whereabouts do you live? I will move there and never have a computer or landscape problem again. 

Vivienne*


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

ooo..you're almost a senior member :-D


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *ooo..you're almost a senior member :-D *


LOL! Can you imagine! That's so funny.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I can't believe you! You're amazing. How different the two businesses are!


 There's more....................... I actually majored in Biochemistry and Biophysics in the '60s at the top Univ. in my state. I had 3 years of credits in 2 years but didn't graduate because I went in the service. When I first got out of the service, I did 1 year of research work in Renalpharmacology at another Univ. while starting my tree & landsc. business on the side.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> There's more....................... I actually majored in Biochemistry and Biophysics in the '60s at the top Univ. in my state. I had 3 years of credits in 2 years but didn't graduate because I went in the service. When I first got out of the service, I did 1 year of research work in Renalpharmacology at another Univ. while starting my tree & landsc. business on the side. *


Wow! I am awed! There are not too many people who can excel at such differen things. Usually with geniuses, they are geniuses at one thing. There is one thing missing that I would love to see. I would be the first to buy it - an autobiography. Please?

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: You better ease up with those kind of remarks before my head swells so much I won't be able to get out of the building!!!!!!!! I was thinking more, instead of an autobiography, along the lines of a biography on the "Epitome of Greatness"! Oh G*d, what have you done to me? My head feels like it's expanding............


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: You better ease up with those kind of remarks before my head swells so much I won't be able to get out of the building!!!!!!!! *


LOL!



> I was thinking more, instead of an autobiography, along the lines of a biography on the "Epitome of Greatness"!


 I like that! Yes! And you can be the first chapter.

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Jeez get a room!!!!!

Seriously, I hope this computer is going to be worth all this excitement


zeddy
PHD, MBA, CDM, RPM, OIS, FOS, HDH and Bar


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi zeddy


> Originally posted by zeddy:
> *Jeez get a room!!!!! *


*
LOL!



 Seriously, I hope this computer is going to be worth all this excitement

Click to expand...

Well....getting there is half the fun.  So far so good.[/QUOTE]



zeddy
PHD, MBA, CDM, RPM, OIS, FOS, HDH and Bar

Click to expand...

*Okay. I know what the the first two designations are - what are the others?

Vivienne


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Cadburys' Dairy Milk (chocolate), Revolutions per minute, Oh I say (matron!!!!), Full of S***, Har-de Har.

Life is toooooooooo short


Zeddy (stillforgetting)


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Ah, the swelling went down and I was able to go outside and get some air. In all the excitement in the last couple of days, what did you decide about warranty/guarantee/onsite etc. or will you have to wait until next week for that info. I'm getting confused as to which shop we're talking about now. Is this the one I was having a stroke about?


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by zeddy:
> Cadburys' Dairy Milk (chocolate), Revolutions per minute, Oh I say (matron!!!!), Full of S***, Har-de Har.


LOL! I knew it was something like that!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> Ah, the swelling went down and I was able to go outside and get some air.


LOL!


> what did you decide about warranty/guarantee/onsite etc.


The salesman suggested that I not get a warranty. He said three year labour was included when they build a system. Not on site but they are about a half hour away. For the parts - anything that is OEM is covered for one year and 'retail' products have only a thirty day exchange and after that I have to deal with the manufacturer. There is a seal on the case that must not be broken. So when things go wrong, I bring it in, they take out whatever they think is defective, I send it to the manufacturer and they put it back in for me. Sounds dumb but that seems to be the norm. Except for one shop that has a straight one year warranty and a real extended warranty. That shop does not carry Corsair ram and was having trouble getting a quote on it. Anyway the retail parts are the video card and the cpu. I also use a credit card that extends all warranties for one year which, if I get an extended warranty that feature of the card does not hold.
I think you liked the labour warranty part and I have that. The OEM parts have exactly the same manufacturer's warranty as the retail.



> I'm getting confused as to which shop we're talking about now. Is this the one I was having a stroke about?


 Yes that's the one. One shop was having trouble quoting Corsair ram - they've had three days now and still can't get a quote. Another shop refused to tell me what revision board I was getting. They told me it didn't matter. Anyway, I've checked out the one you had a stroke about  on my ISP user group - it was OT and there are a lot of guys there who build their own computers. Most deal with this shop (Deals Direct) and say that they are very obliging. They don't know about knowledgeable because they always know exactly what they want when they purchase from them, they can't speak about the warranty because they've all broken the seal and the only thing they don't like about it is that they do not have a lot of inventory and they sometimes have to wait 2-3 days for components. It was on the list of top 100 companies in Canada that you sent with a 7/10 rating and the main complaint about them there was the inventory part. I know it doesn't sound ideal but I still would rather not deal with anyone out of the city. I'm not going to repeat what I really wish because you'll just get a swelled head again. 

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

come on..3 more posts lol...i know when i was at your point i just looked for an excuse to post :-x


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## scrapyd (May 14, 2003)

The NEW WD raptor is awsome for gaming i just bought it along with and ASUS p4s8X board running a 2.4 with1.25 gigs of ram and ATI 9700. Had some trouble installin windows but this hard drive kicks major ***!!


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## Bloody Yank (May 17, 2003)

IMO, there are only three things really needed to make a decent gaming system: a high-end video card with 128 MB ram (I use a geforce4 ti4200, the mx version sux), aleast 512 MB of DRAM preferrably running at 333mhz, and 2 decent hard drives on a striping raid array (which I know really counts as two sepearte things). With a setup like this you should have no problems running any current games.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> the only thing they don't like about it is that they do not have a lot of inventory and they sometimes have to wait 2-3 days for components.


 That's understandable since it takes a VERY short time to wrap up THOUSANDS of dollars in inventory and then still not have what you need. We order weekly, biweekly, sometimes everyday. It sounds like they are familiar with the components and must be decent to deal with or those guys wouldn't buy/order from them. Maybe if they can't handle the build, one of the customers helps them!! As long as it gets done properly, so what.



> So when things go wrong, I bring it in, they take out whatever they think is defective, I send it to the manufacturer and they put it back in for me. Sounds dumb but that seems to be the norm.


 Man, that's a smooth deal. I think we'll do that! "Sorry Mrs. Jones, your mobo is shot and needs replaced. Here it is. Send it in and when the replacement comes in, CALL US." And we sit back and relax............. no more RMAing parts, phonecalls, tracking shipping or fielding calls from the customer about "when it's going to be done"(those calls are usually because of RMAing a part). Oh, the life! I also got a kick out of:



> they take out whatever they think is defective


 "THINK"????????????????????


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> Maybe if they can't handle the build, one of the customers helps them!! As long as it gets done properly, so what.*


*
On their website, http://www.dealsdirect.com/, they sell a system using my motherboard and cpu - so they have put them together. Unfortunately they only use one stick of probably OEM ram. I thought that I would ask them to make sure they put my sticks in the right slots. Anything else I should point out?



Man, that's a smooth deal.

Click to expand...

Their explanation to me was that they do not deal with manufacturers directly - only suppliers. So they can look after OEM stuff but not retail. I didn't really understand this, but thought pursuing it would be a waste. 



I also got a kick out of:
"THINK"????????????????????

Click to expand...

* That's what one of the guys actually said. It didn't hit me at the time. LOL!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:Thanks for the link! Been over there roaming around. If they can setup this system, they can do yours with NO problem. Link to their site:

http://www.dealsdirect.ca/systems/amdextreme.htm

Note that they are using 2 512mb sticks instead of 256mb. No diff. when it comes to installing memory.

Here is your system as you last listed it:

ATI Radeon 9700PRO 519.95
Samsung 955DF 19" Dyna-flat 379.95
DDR-RAM Corsair PC3200 (400)
512 MB TwinXDual Channel 256.95
Antec Plus 1080 AMG Tower 224.75
with 430 W ps 
Asus A7N8X-DLX NForce 2 209.95 
motherboard
AMD Athlon (Barton)2500XP 202.75
WD 80GB 7200 RPM 154.75
8 MB cache 
Lite-on LTR52246S 52x24x52 79.75
CDRW
Pioneer 16x DVD 40x IDE Tray 68.75
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 39.75
with Optical Tech
3.5" Panasonic 1.44 MB Floppy 15.95

Total 2153.05 Cdn Dollars

On their website I setup this system and believe I would go with it (except for the monitor, CDRW, DVD):

http://www.dealsdirect.ca/catalog/customquote.cfm

Videocard is the same........ $44.10 cheaper
Same monitor/price
Same memory/price
Same case/price
Same mobo/price
Cpu is the same................. $8.00 cheaper
Same Hdd/price
LG CDRW(same speed)........ $4.80 cheaper
LG DVD (same speed) .......... $12.00 cheaper
Same mouse/price
Same Floppy/price

System savings of $68.90. However, using LiteOn CDRW and LG DVD you still save $55.35 because the videocard and cpu are on special pricing this week and the LG DVD is cheaper than the Pioneer! The LG burner doesn't have as good "TRUE" speeds as the LiteON. The Pioneer DVD doesn't matchup to the LG DVD. Besides, I think the matchup of the LiteOn and LG will will have less compatiblity problems when burning etc.

So we have the system as such:

ASUS A7N8X Deluxe mobo $209.95
AMD XP2500+ Barton cpu $194.75
Corsair PC3200 TWINXDUALCHANNEL RAM $256.75
WD 80Gig 8MB cache 7200rpm ATA100 Hdd $154.75
ATI 9700Pro 128MB "BUILT by ATI" $475.85
LiteOn CDRW 52x24x52 $ 74.95
LG DVD 16x40 $ 56.75
Panasonic Floppy $ 15.95
MS Intellimouse Optical $ 39.75
AOC 19" monitor
WinXP Pro

Total without monitor or operating system $1573.50


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:Thanks for the link! Been over there roaming around. *


* 
Thanks for doing that!! 



If they can setup this system, they can do yours with NO problem.

Click to expand...

Yay!!!!!!!!!



So we have the system as such:

ASUS A7N8X Deluxe mobo $209.95
AMD XP2500+ Barton cpu $194.75
Corsair PC3200 TWINXDUALCHANNEL RAM $256.75
WD 80Gig 8MB cache 7200rpm ATA100 Hdd $154.75
ATI 9700Pro 128MB "BUILT by ATI" $475.85
LiteOn CDRW 52x24x52 $ 74.95
LG DVD 16x40 $ 56.75
Panasonic Floppy $ 15.95
MS Intellimouse Optical $ 39.75
AOC 19" monitor
WinXP Pro

Total without monitor or operating system $1573.50

Click to expand...

*You left out the case. :-( So the total is $1709. My monitor will be $310!! - for a $70 savings (thank you!) and then there will be 15% tax. I hate the tax part.

The Liteon CDRW can only be bought in black. I would like to buy it. Do you think it would look stupid? They can't get it in the regular colour and I don't understand why. Other stores have it in both.

Back to the Windows XP PRO - is it the same as the Windows XP which I am familiar with and thus can help them with stuff? Or is it very different? Can I persuade you to let me put the Windows XP on and if I have problems switch to the PRO? Am I hearing your blood boil?

Vivienne


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I hope you read this post before you read my previous one where I said


> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> *Hi StillLearnin'
> Back to the Windows XP PRO - is it the same as the Windows XP which I am familiar with and thus can help them with stuff? Or is it very different? Can I persuade you to let me put the Windows XP on and if I have problems switch to the PRO? Am I hearing your blood boil? *


*

I was just being a big baby again. The XP PRO it is but is it the same as the Windows XP for settings and stuff. If they have a problem can I look at my Windows XP and figure out how to solve it?

Thanks and sorry for being such an OS whiner.

Vivienne*


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Guess what!! Windows XPPro has fallen $70.00 this week. Is this my lucky week or not!

Please forgive and forget my incessant whining.

Vivienne


----------



## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

I click on this thread and it says last page - not page will last? Are you really building a PC or are you plotting to take over the world!

Most of the posts seem a wee bit cryptic, who is stillearnin' anyway and what is he stillearnin'....... not a lot from the posts - is he sitting stroking a cat perchance?

And Vi-vi-enne, in numerology that is just two off the evil sign: 6-6 6 (38/6=6 to the nearest whole number).

I see a conspiracy

*E-V-E-R-W-H-E-R-E*


----------



## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

You might ask where is the Y, I keep on asking myself Y!!!!!!


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi zeddy


> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *You might ask where is the Y, I keep on asking myself Y!!!!!! *



I'm at the end. Everything is decided. Really. This should finish soon. The Windows XP vs XPPRO agonizing is finished. 
And thanks also for your input. I shall never forget the 'blimey'. LOL!

Vivienne

P.S. I wonder if as much planning is made in taking over the world as was made for this computer.


----------



## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> You left out the case.


 Sorry about that. I was doing too many things at once.



> The Liteon CDRW can only be bought in black. I would like to buy it. Do you think it would look stupid?


 Yea, it's going to look pretty gruesome. Tell you what: see which one of these they recommend;

Aopen 52X24X52 CRW5224 CDRW RETAIL (1) 
IDE 
CAN$79.75

LG 52X24X52 CDRW OEM (1) 
IDE 
CAN$74.75

LG Electronics GCE-8520B 
 52X CD-R, 24X CD-RW record speeds
 52X CD-ROM read speed
 2MB buffer
 Internal IDE drive
 Ahead Nero Express 5.5, InCD 3.39 software

See if the LG is this one. It is almost identical in speed to the LiteOn. Same with the Aopen. I guess I'd get the LG regardless, but ask which model you're getting anyway.



> The XP PRO it is but is it the same as the Windows XP for settings and stuff. If they have a problem can I look at my Windows XP and figure out how to solve it?


 Yes.

zeddy:



> Most of the posts seem a wee bit cryptic, who is stillearnin' anyway and what is he stillearnin'....... not a lot from the posts - is he sitting stroking a cat perchance?


 Put out 4 higher-end systems than yours or viviennes. Delivered and setup 2 others. OKAY???????????????????


----------



## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Stillearnin'



> Put out 4 higher-end systems than yours or viviennes. Delivered and setup 2 others. OKAY???????????????????


Computers....just like lego!



> I canna hold her Captain, the thread is going to disintegrate!....





> Stroke....Stroke....nonsense Dear Boy...this thread is designed to last forever...mu-ha-ha-ha!


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

You answered this at 4:11 a.m.!!! Did you sleep or were you waking up? Man!! Your energy is unbelievable.



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> Yea, it's going to look pretty gruesome. *


*
Too bad. I thought you might say 'distinctive'. LOL! 



LG Electronics GCE-8520B

Click to expand...

It is this one. I asked when I called them last week. They thought it would look dumb too but my husband said - how bad could it look? It would just stand out and help them differentiate the writer from the dvd. LOL!



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The XP PRO it is but is it the same as the Windows XP for settings and stuff. If they have a problem can I look at my Windows XP and figure out how to solve it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes.

Click to expand...

  Thanks!!!




zeddy: 
Put out 4 higher-end systems than yours or viviennes. Delivered and setup 2 others. OKAY???????????????????

Click to expand...

*Wow!

Zeddy is just being zeddy.

Well - a few changes since I was supposed to have bought my computer. It looks real good and done now.

My guy comes in after one on Tuesday. I shall first drive to get my monitor and then go to order my computer. I'll write as soon as I get back.

Try to get some rest now.  Just think - I'll be giving you some peace till Tuesday.

Thanks!!!!!

Vivienne


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## Bloody Yank (May 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by zeddy:_
> *And Vi-vi-enne, in numerology that is just two off the evil sign: 6-6 6 (38/6=6 to the nearest whole number).
> 
> I see a conspiracy
> ...


Um, numerology does not quite work that way. But that was a very clever twist on his name. My applause!


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## zeddy (May 3, 2003)

Numerology works!

I must go and get me some of that!!!!


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Actually it was 3:11 AM my time and I was turning in from:



> Put out 4 higher-end systems than yours or viviennes. Delivered and setup 2 others.


 Finished up the last of the 4. Had to get up and leave at 7 AM to mow(lawn maintanence) before it rains(Mon./Tues.). Testiness is one of my BETTER virtues(at times)!



> It would just stand out and help them differentiate the writer from the dvd.


 You been hanging out with zeddy???

Humor abounds.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> vivienne: Actually it was 3:11 AM my time and I was turning in from:
> Finished up the last of the 4. Had to get up and leave at 7 AM to mow(lawn maintanence) before it rains(Mon./Tues.). Testiness is one of my BETTER virtues(at times)!


 Such little sleep would make me far more testy!!


> You been hanging out with zeddy???


ROTFL! When my computer is all set up, I am going to miss these posts!!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

A last minute question:

I notice that WINXPPRO has fax capabilities. If I wanted to use it, I would need a fax modem right? I can't use cable? Would the Robotics fax modem be a good one to pick?

Also it says in the the WinXPPRO promotional material that "Software Installation and Maintenance  automatically install, configure, repair, or remove software applications." Sounds good - what is that about? 

When I get my computer do I install all the updates? I was reading that some cause lots of problems.

Thanks! 

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I'm back from Deals Direct without having ordered a computer. They do not have the revision 2 board and have to order it. They did not know how long it would take and have to speak to the owner who is away today. They told me if it took a couple of weeks to wait until then to order it as the more time that went by the more likely that my computer would be cheaper. They are going to call me as soon as they know how long it will be.

The salesman suggested some changes and I said that I would check them out with you before giving my okay. He suggested the Sonata case and we go with black components. The savings on the case more than made up for the extra cost for black. The Liteon CDRW is then okay but the DVD had to also be a Liteon. The MX300 mouse was smaller than the Intelli Explorer and I'll probably go with that unless you think otherwise. He wanted me to buy a SATA drive but I think my hard drive with the 8mb cache is good enough. He congratulated me with going with Windows XP PRO . 

I called the shop where I am buying the AOC monitor and told them that I would not be in today. I explained that it might be another 2-3 weeks or so before I needed it. The guy said that I could buy the computer from him and he would deliver it faster but he only does Intel and he's too far away.

So another delay. :-(

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I checked out on the net the changes that the salesmen had suggested and I do not want to make any. I am sticking by my original order to him. What I am not sure about though, is just colour. The case is a metallic grey - does that go with beige or black? The only thing I do not like about it is that the case has a door. You have to open a door to have access to your cd roms, etc. He said the door comes off and I will take it off. I think it would be a pain to have a door. I would think the door would sort of get in the way as well. I am looking down at my case and if there were a door it would be hitting my leg. I looked at some other antec cases and they all seem to have doors. They have no Enermax cases.

Now some really disappointing news. I just spoke to the salesman and they are neither willing to upgrade the bios or order a revision 2 board - so I will just have to wait till they get the board in their regular shipment. I reminded him that this is what he told me they did but he didn't say anything. He said a new shipment comes in tomorrow and he will check what it is. 

Well... I am disappointed to be waiting again. But I would rather wait and have it right. 

Hope everything is okay at your end! And thanks again!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I notice that WINXPPRO has fax capabilities. If I wanted to use it, I would need a fax modem right? I can't use cable? Would the Robotics fax modem be a good one to pick?


 Yes, but make sure it's the HARDWARE modem, not software(Winmodem). Links about WinXP Pro faxing:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306657

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306661



> Also it says in the the WinXPPRO promotional material that "Software Installation and Maintenance  automatically install, configure, repair, or remove software applications." Sounds good - what is that about?


 That's about when you find out the written accolades don't live up to real life installing, uninstalling etc. as I've mentioned in the past!



> When I get my computer do I install all the updates? I was reading that some cause lots of problems.


 Hopefully this (*********) outfit you're dealing with, should already have EVERYTHING updated. You never mentioned what you were going to use (if you are) for office software??????? And , yes, there are quite a few problems right now with various Windows patches and updates. This is also true for the OFFICE series software patches and updates.



> I'm back from Deals Direct without having ordered a computer. They do not have the revision 2 board and have to order it.


 This thread(post) is getting toooooo long. As I mentioned previously, you don't HAVE to get a Rev. 2.0 mobo since the version 1.04 has been released. The last 6 mobos we got (like yours) didn't need BIOS flashes. Hopefully, most of the mobos being distributed by now are the same way.



> The MX300 mouse was smaller than the Intelli Explorer and I'll probably go with that unless you think otherwise.


 I'm not familiar with that model, however ALL the reviews I checked said it is NO GOOD for left-handers! If that applies, take heed!



> He wanted me to buy a SATA drive but I think my hard drive with the 8mb cache is good enough.


 You'll gain more with the 8MB cache than the SMALL speed increase of the SATA for your usage.



> What I am not sure about though, is just colour. The case is a metallic grey - does that go with beige or black?


 NOT BEIGE!!!!!!!! Since we don't use these cases, I would ask the fella to see what the(Sonata) with black components looks like. Surely since they're pushing this stuff so hard they at least have a partially assembled one you could see!



> You have to open a door to have access to your cd roms, etc. He said the door comes off and I will take it off. I think it would be a pain to have a door.


 I totally agree!!!!

Forget the Rev 2.0 mobo, go with the Sonata case if you want, black components are fine, a great combo(Liteon DVD and LiteOn CDRW - that's what we use). Since they are buiding the same systems with the XP3000+, then the BIOSes must not NEED flashed. Bottom line.............

Get the Sonata(take the door off at home!)
Get the LiteOn DVD and LiteOn CDRW
Take the mobo they order(if it won't work with the XP2500+, they'll HAVE to flash the BIOS or make sure they get a recently manufactured mobo!)
Stick with the rest of your choices
The mouse is up to you, I don't have to use it!
Don't forget the modem( you can get a separate pc/compatible fax machine instead, you know)
ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the guarantee/warranty signed in BLOOD!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin
I didn't get notification that you answered. :-( I must admit that I worried.


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> That's about when you find out the written accolades don't live up to real life installing, uninstalling etc. as I've mentioned in the past! _


_
LOL!



Hopefully this (*********) outfit you're dealing with,

Click to expand...

LOL! Well I have great news! When I thought you had totally abandoned me - I was still worried about you, though - I went to the NForces board you told me about and whined to them. One of the fellas there gave me a name of a shop in my city. It's about an hour away. I checked their website - http://www.shoprbc.com/country.php - and did up a quote, spoke to them on the phone and was very impressed. They told me that if any of their prices were higher than Deal Direct's I should ask for a price match on a special form they provide. I did for three components and within 5 minutes, they changed the price on their website to reflect my new price! They are matching it for everyone - not just for me! This brings the cost of my computer down about a $100. They are good at setting up the system as that is the board they sell most of and the owner and a few of the staff have it. They have the latest revision board and said that anytime it is necessary to flash bioses they have no trouble doing it. They will put it together for $30 and have a one year parts and labour warranty. My credit card makes that two years. I do not have to send anything back to the manufacturer myself. They charge 1 1/2% more to pay by credit card but said that if I ordered it online, I need not pay that extra cost. They will have everything running, drivers installed, system checked etc. They will put the second hard drive in for me at no cost. They suggested I go with the Sonata - 380 watt power supply that it comes with. They said I didn't need the 430 watt I had asked for. The only thing they didn't agree with was the Windows XPPRO. They said they were all running it on XP HOME without problems and if I did have a problem because of the OS, they were willing to reinstall the system with the PRO but they were sure this wouldn't happen. They have a tech department that I would be free to call at any time.

I was thinking of you the whole time I was talking to them - thinking how you will be pleased that I found them as the other (********) outfit wouldn't do all that. 



You never mentioned what you were going to use (if you are) for office software???????

Click to expand...

I have Microsoft Office 2000.



This thread(post) is getting toooooo long

Click to expand...

I am so sorry. I know it's been going on for about six weeks. I know how busy you've been and I want you to know how very very much I have appreciated all the time and the energy you have spent. I have learned a ton and can't believe how more confident I have become. ( I know you don't want thanks till the end - but I can't help thinking every day how much I have to already thank you for. ) So thank you for all you've done and I'll thank you again when I get back the computer.



NOT BEIGE!!!!!!!! Since we don't use these cases, I would ask the fella to see what the(Sonata) with black components looks like. Surely since they're pushing this stuff so hard they at least have a partially assembled one you could see!

Click to expand...

If you think 380 watt is enough, I won't have that problem.



Don't forget the modem( you can get a separate pc/compatible fax machine instead, you know)

Click to expand...

That's what I'll do. Thanks.



ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

LOL! 10:00 am tomorrow it will be ordered.

StillLearnin', thank you.

Vivienne_


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: What I meant about the post being too long was, somewhere in the previous 7 pages I had explained about not having to get the Rev. 2.0 mobo as the newer mobos were okay. Glad you found this new place and things sound much better. However I disagree about the power supply and would put the 430w in NOW. There is NO sense in paying for a 380w now and (maybe) in the near future(when/if you go with a RAID setup) the bigger power supply will be needed. Besides, the ATI videocard is power hungry, the memory electrical flow is critical, USB/firewire peripheals are power suckers, multiple drives(Hdd, 2nd Hdd, Cdrw, Dvd, Floppy) are voltage dependent. DON"T SCRIMP ON POWER!



> The only thing they didn't agree with was the Windows XPPRO. They said they were all running it on XP HOME without problems and if I did have a problem because of the OS, they were willing to reinstall the system with the PRO but they were sure this wouldn't happen.


 I'm sorry but I totally and emphatically disagree. As far as I'm concerned WinXP HOME or Pro NEITHER one should be installed. We just spent most of the weekend on XP problems on other customers' machines. It's Win2kPro for me and our customers, however you WILL be better off with the XP Pro version over the HOME. I don't care if they will fix it or whatever for nothing. If all your data is lost or you suffer from constant little glitches that result in any downtime, the stress and aggravation isn't worth it.

From their website(Notice sale price compared to regular - pretty tricky):

Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM 8MB ATA100 HDD, 3Yr
Regular Price: $147.00 Sale Price: $155.00

Instead of the Sonata case(and everything black/silver), you might get this power supply and case:

Antec TRUE430 Watt Power Supply (Price Match) 116.00

Antec Performance SX600 II Mid Tower Case w/Front USB(no PS) 
Price: $70.00 (BEIGE)

About warranty:

"Standard Warranty Information
RBC Complete Systems (A complete system consists of products which allow for a complete installation of an operating system. Monitor is not required. Damage caused by excessive dust, lightning strike, abuse and/or lack of maintance will not be covered)

- Standard: 1 Year Parts/Labour
Professional: 1 Year Parts/2 Years Labour
Premium: 2 Years Parts/3 Years Labour"

I would get the Premium. It costs $129.00. That's $100 over 2 more years for labor. If the normal labor charges are $50 per hour, the 2 yrs. coverage is equal to ONLY 2 hrs. of non-covered labor.

My choices:

WinXP Pro
Premium warranty package
430w power supply
I guess whatever case you want
Maybe 1 front and 1 rear 40mm fans if not already in case(if needed)

I think with the modem added in, the extra case fans(if you get them), the premium warranty, it looks mighty good !!!!!!!! Can't wait!


----------



## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: What I meant about the post being too long was


Phew! (You did put post in brackets.)


> somewhere in the previous 7 pages I had explained about not having to get the Rev. 2.0 mobo as the newer mobos were okay.


I know but I thought it depended on a new bios and the shop was not willing to do that. 


> DON"T SCRIMP ON POWER!


Okay - I'm getting the AntecPlus1080 - like we originally decided - LOL! Everything is like we originally decided. 


> however you WILL be better off with the XP Pro version over the HOME.


Okay. 


> From their website(Notice sale price compared to regular - pretty tricky):


 That's one of the ones they fixed for me. I asked for three changes and they did two of them backwards. I am bringing my hard drive in to them this afternoon (my husband needs the car in the morning). I'll point it out to them and order at that time -either online from their place or online when I get home if they do not like that. (I save the 1 1/2% ordering on line).


> My choices:
> WinXP Pro
> Premium warranty package
> 430w power supply


Thanks!! And thanks for checking out their website!


> I think with the modem


No modem - they use cable and if they want they can get a fax machine like you suggested earlier. I suspect they won't. 


> it looks mighty good !!!!!!!! Can't wait!


 I love hearing you say that.

Thanks!!!!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: SOUNDS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: SOUNDS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


  I'm grinning ear to ear.

I'll post as soon as I get back.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

 It's done! It will be ready on Wednesday. They will call if they can have it ready on Tuesday. 

The *only* thing is that they do not use Arctic Silver. They say it only reduces the heat by about 3 degrees. They use whatever AMD sends with the cpu. I can have them use it if I buy the whole tube - cost is $13.00. I told them if I wanted them to use it, I would call them and tell them. What do you think?

Yay! It's done.



Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: It's the only paste we use. If it's not applied right, it can "increase" the temps!



> They use whatever AMD sends with the cpu.


 No problem and if one develops, they're the ones responsible - not you!

Kick back and relax, Tues. or Wed. is not far away!!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I sent a message which didn't show up. Strange. Anyway I went on and on and then said thanks - I will relax. 

Going to pick up the monitor tomorrow.



Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I picked up the monitor today and it looks real nice.  I can't wait to actually start using it!

Re: Speakers - now everyone is so excited about the computer that they want to get speakers. Theirs are 15 years old and hiss a lot. Would you have any suggestion for good gaming speakers that work well with this board? Is there anything I should be particularly looking out for or avoiding?

Thanks!!!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: This situation I will not be of much help. I checked with a few of our customers with that mobo and everybody is using something different(or headphones) and is quite happy. In other words, no help there. Personally, I use headphones or Altec Lansing speakers. I suggest you start a new thread such as: New system with A7N8X DLUX-need speakers! and see what kind of responses you get. Most people are probably going to say to get KLIPSCH 5.1 however I've been told that for the same price (or less) the Cambridge speakers are better. I just don't know. I would go to whatever stores you might have( like Best Buy, Fry's, Circuit City) and listen to some. Like I said, start a new post with the subject as I typed it and see what you get for responses. I'll be watching. If you think the monitor LOOKS nice, wait'll you turn it on!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: This situation I will not be of much help. I checked with a few of our customers with that mobo and everybody is using something different(or headphones) and is quite happy.


Thanks for asking about it. I've done a search on the Nforces board where they discussed this but there wasn't a lot said about it. Then I did an internet search and found that Antec Z-640 was reasonably priced and though not great was very good for gaming. I also read that my board might need another card from Asus to have 'Soundstorm' work - something I did not understand. So I posted this to the Nforces group - I wish I had used your subject heading! I received one answer that said 5 speakers could be used without the special card if you used the mic and line in spots. I didn't understand this and said so but no one has responded. What do you use line in for - is it for a headphone ? And if you used the microphone spot and wanted to use a mic, do you just plug out one speaker and the other speakers would just work? I'll wait awhile for more answers. I am sure your subject heading would have worked better!


> Most people are probably going to say to get KLIPSCH 5.1


When doing a search that is what they said but it is way out of my price range.


> I just don't know. I would go to whatever stores you might have( like Best Buy, Fry's, Circuit City) and listen to some.


I phoned a few stores and none of the speakers are out of their boxes. :-( The shop where I bought the computer suggested the Antec Z-640 that I have just about decided to buy. They said most people chose those and they've had no complaints about them. 


> I'll be watching.


No - don't watch. I'm just making a fool of myself over there. It will be painful for you. 


> If you think the monitor LOOKS nice, wait'll you turn it on!


I had to go 40 miles to get it and I was about 5 miles away from the place and got hopelessly lost. It took me almost an hour to go the last 5 miles! Reading maps are not my thing either! LOL! When I got there they took it out of the box for me and plugged it into their computer. It looked real nice! And it saved me about a $100 to boot. Thank you!!

"Speak" to you Wednesday. 

Vivienne


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## ubernoob (May 23, 2003)

I just built my own computer and was looking at the A7N8X Deluxe also. However, there was rumor of problems with Radeon 9500 and 9700 model vid cards.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ubernoob:_
> *I just built my own computer and was looking at the A7N8X Deluxe also. However, there was rumor of problems with Radeon 9500 and 9700 model vid cards. *


I certainly hope not as this is what I'm getting. I'm not worried, though. Some very experienced people in this Forum have okayed my setup.

Vivienne


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## Macaulay/D/P (May 17, 2003)

If building, I would first deliberate on the Mobo and case to buy. Depending on interests, what's onboard, eg video, audio, lan, etc, and what pci/agp boards interested in. I would make sure that the case has the largest power supply that the form factor of the case allows; typically the larger supplies have a smart fan which supplies cooling on demand. In addition to fans supplied, i would get the optional fans if any. The reasoning is that in specs to fill up any or all of the bays and pci slots with time and be within engineering specs. pros and cons, the more slots give flexibility also of upgrading or swapping boards.

With the mobo, i'd pick one of the most recent with fast FSB of 400, 533, or 400/533 combo, 133 used to be fast and one source of bottlenecks. Can always install minimal memory, and less expensive cpu with a cpu upgrade later when prices fall.

Now you have the barebones with which to proceed, according to interests.

In addition to forementioned cases, CoolerMaster is another good one, considered by some to be the Cadillac of cases; possibly somewhat overpriced. They have an interesting convection/dynamic cooling system that has been engineered. 
Antec is a good value choice for the money.


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## Macaulay/D/P (May 17, 2003)

Relates to current state of technology; by some standards, DVD and fluid real time video are a more difficult standard than gaming.
Would also imply USB 2 standard.

Has been determined that the above video minimum requirements would be 1Ghz cpu, DDR memory or better, and 133/ata 7200 HDD. Don't think there is a cpu of 1Ghz that supports on a mobo the other two. Therefore, using the HDD and memory as minimum requirement, select at a minimum a mobo/cpu that supports these two; that is, the cpu is greater than 1Ghz. (not to say can't go to 150 serial ata if can afford or price declines).

Inherent in the above is that you are going to get a mobo with large FSB, high memory bandwidths, etc. basically just a question of what Video board to buy. The ones that got reputation of being a gaming board have about 6Gb/s bandwidths, The more recent high end boards 8-10 Gb/s. The nVidea 4200 released last year is a value board, and prices still declining, and might be a good place to start, or a competing manufacturers equivalent.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

The suspense is killing me. They did not receive the video card and memory yet - so the computer will not be ready till Friday - maybe Thursday. 

I'll post as soon as it's set up!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Well it's good to hear that things are still proceeding, although slowly. Did you decide on a sound system yet? Sounds like maybe the Z-640s, huh?



> The suspense is killing me.


 From the news reports we're getting down here, it sounds more like SARS and Mad Cow Disease are more of a threat than suspense!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> vivienne: Well it's good to hear that things are still proceeding, although slowly. Did you decide on a sound system yet? Sounds like maybe the Z-640s, huh?


Yes - that's the one I chose because it was so reasonably priced and seemed 'good enough'. If audio ever gets to mean a lot to them, it would be easy enough for them to upgrade to a digital system ( I think).


> From the news reports we're getting down here, it sounds more like SARS and Mad Cow Disease are more of a threat than suspense!!!


Darn! I was hoping that you would not hear about it - now that absolutely dashes my hopes of you're coming up here.

Vivienne


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## rosh325 (Jan 30, 2003)

i still find the progression from junior member...to member..to senior member...all in one post to be quite amusing :-D Come find me when you get up to distinguished member. I think vivi is plotting to take over the tsg forums


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rosh325:_
> *i still find the progression from junior member...to member..to senior member...all in one post to be quite amusing :-D Come find me when you get up to distinguished member. I think vivi is plotting to take over the tsg forums  *


LOL!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I am getting totally upset with the shop that is putting together my computer. When I ordered it, they said all the components but the mouse were there. Then they said, the memory and the video card did not arrive. Now they say the memory comes from the States and must be held up at the border and that the video card is hard to get. They will let me know when the computer is ready.

I checked the ATI site and their store says they are out of stock on the 9700 PRO. Now I am worried that it might be quite a while before I get the computer. I have already paid for it.

Anyway my thought is to ask them to lend me a video card or to put in my Radeon 7200 - I believe it is a 34 meg card until the 9700 comes in. Is that a solution?

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vivienne:_
> *Hi StillLearnin'
> 
> Anyway my thought is to ask them to lend me a video card or to put in my Radeon 7200 - I believe it is a 34 meg card until the 9700 comes in. Is that a solution?
> *


Or to buy the ATI All in Wonder 9700 PRO for $60.00 more. I notice on the ATI website that this is not out of stock.

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I am getting totally upset with the shop that is putting together my computer. When I ordered it, they said all the components but the mouse were there. Then they said, the memory and the video card did not arrive. Now they say the memory comes from the States and must be held up at the border and that the video card is hard to get. They will let me know when the computer is ready.


 I understand your anxiety, however I don't see much that you can do but WAIT for ALL the components to arrive and the system to be assembled. After the system is ready to go(in person), I would approach them as to a discount($200.00 maximum) on the system for misleading you about the parts availabilty and assembly time frame. We order from the "Big 5" (except for a few items; power supplies, adapter connectors, monitors, etc.) all our main components. There is never a time we can't get something, but sometimes the cost efficiency doesn't fit in with our cost estimation. That's when you have to decide to (maybe pay more) and get the item or backorder it. We don't require upfront payment and that is one of the reasons why. Sometimes "little"(not to you the consumer, maybe) things like this happen and we don't have much or any control over it. As for getting parts from the States to Canada, I have NO idea what type of glitches could be crop up there. *DON'T* have anything put into that NEW system except what was ordered( In other words, not your old video card!!!!!!!!).

From their website:

Thank you for purchasing at shopRBC.com. We appreciate your business and hope to serve you again in the near future.

Online Receipt

shopRBC.com
235 Stafford RD. West
Unit 102
Nepean, Ontario
K2H 9C1

Tel: 613-829-9994 Fax 613-829-4032

http://www.shoprbc.com

Reference Number: N/A
Response Code: N/A
Currency: CAD
Transaction Date: May 30th, 2003 Order Number: 697
ISO Code: N/A
Authorization Code: N/A
Transaction Time: 07:20:52

Products Base Price Options Unit Price Quantity Total 
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card w/TV-Out, Retail
$477.00 $477.00 1 $477.00 
ATI Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Video Card, OEM
$370.00 $370.00 1 $370.00 
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card, OEM
$486.00 $486.00 1 $486.00 
Subtotal: $1333.00 
Shipping: Local Ottawa Pickup: $0.00 
GST: $93.31 
PST: $106.64 
Total: $1532.95 
Less Total Gift Certificates Value: $0.00 
Grand Total: $1532.95 
Transaction Type In Store Payment 
Result Pending

Please print and or save this as your official receipt.

As you can see here (above), I just (fake) ordered 3 ATI 9700(including the non-pro) for *PICKUP DELIVERY)* and everything went through. I suggest that you check back to see WHICH 9700 card is NOT available.

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card w/TV-Out, Retail
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card, OEM

Either of these cards will work. Note there is NO Tv-Out on the one(I don't know if you want to use the tv as a monitor or not). If the non Tv-out card is available and that will work for you, then get it. Ask again about the memory and what they have in stock that will work(either 333mhz or 400mhz).


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> DON'T* have anything put into that NEW system except what was ordered( In other words, not your old video card!!!!!!!!).


They said they would put in an ATI 9000 and two sticks of PC2700 generic ram (333) They tell me that they've built lots of A7n8X - Dx that way and they have had absolutely no problem with the ram. They carry no high end memory in stock because there is no demand for it.



> From their website:
> 
> Tansaction Type In Store Payment


Oh my gawd, I never even noticed this option and gave them my mastercard number. Darn![/QUOTE]



> As you can see here (above), I just (fake) ordered 3 ATI 9700(including the non-pro) for *PICKUP DELIVERY)* and everything went through. I suggest that you check back to see WHICH 9700 card is NOT available.


LOL! Thanks for doing this.



> ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card w/TV-Out, Retail
> ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB Video Card, OEM


They have a 9600 PRO which they tell me used to be the 9500 PRO. They say they deal with 15 suppliers and two of them are trying very hard to get the 9700 PRO. They expect that either that or the AIW 9700 PRO will come in today. Should I get the AIW one if that is the one that comes?

They tell me that the reason you don't want them to put anything else in my machine is because of uninstalling and installing drivers, etc. and they are willing to do that for me. They say my machine will not be harmed in any way if I do this. They also say that they never told me all components were in although they admit they did tell me the day when it would be ready.

So I guess my next step is to wait although I would dearly love to have it for the weekend and put some programs on it, etc. before I give it to the kids.

What do you think?

Thanks for holding my hand.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> They have a 9600 PRO which they tell me used to be the 9500 PRO. They say they deal with 15 suppliers and two of them are trying very hard to get the 9700 PRO. They expect that either that or the AIW 9700 PRO will come in today. Should I get the AIW one if that is the one that comes?


 The 9500Pro still outperforms the 9600Pro, but is disappearing off the market because of this and it's overclocking features.

Link for AIW:

http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/aiw9700pro/index.html

You may like the additional features. If you want it, get it!



> They tell me that the reason you don't want them to put anything else in my machine is because of uninstalling and installing drivers, etc. and they are willing to do that for me. They say my machine will not be harmed in any way if I do this.


 They are right. It's okay!



> They said they would put in an ATI 9000 and two sticks of PC2700 generic ram (333) They tell me that they've built lots of A7n8X - Dx that way and they have had absolutely no problem with the ram. They carry no high end memory in stock because there is no demand for it.


 If they want to do that and will *GUARANTEE* what they stated above about installing/un-installing, GO FOR IT!! Then when your original parts come in and you get the system updated, you'll really be able to tell the difference!!!! Be like jumping from the standard/everyday system to a high-end killer machine!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> vivienne:
> Link for AIW:
> http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/aiw9700pro/index.html


I'll have a look at it before I phone them again. Thanks!


> They are right. It's okay!


 Great. I'll have a fun weekend. 


> Be like jumping from the standard/everyday system to a high-end killer machine!!!


I can't wait.

StillLearnin', thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Looks like you have some competition west of you in Saskatchewan:

DemonSoul666 
Member 

Saskatoon, SK
Joined Sep 2002
37 Posts 


SYSTEM SPECS:

WD 80GB/8MB Cache Hard drive
Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 512KB Cache
Kingston-Hyper X 512 MB Ram
Asus 52/24/52 CR-RW-Rom
Pioneer 16/40 DVD-Rom
Asus A7N8X Deluxe Mobo
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 128 MB
Viewsonic P95f+b 19" CRT
WinXP Pro w/SP1


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: Looks like you have some competition west of you in Saskatchewan:_


_
 Pretty close, huh?

I picked up the computer late Friday night. The only thing that they gave me with it was 2 Asus bookkets. Should I not have received booklets on the other stuff?

I set it up and almost freaked when it was dead until I remembered what you said about the switch in the back! LOL! I then went to write to tell you - the internet was down! It's up now but flaky.

The monitor is real nice.  I've updated the driver and will download the manual to see what I should be fiddling around with. Before I do that, does it have a 'go back to factory setting' feature?

I do not notice the speed yet because all I'm doing is installing programs on it - altjough I must admit the installations are going pretty fast.  My son comes for a sleepover tonight and I'll ask him to bring a game and see if he notices a big difference. I will warn him that when the 'real' components come in, it should be a killer machine. 

I'm looking forward to the completion of this machine! Then you will let me thank you profusely. 

Vivienne_


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Should I not have received booklets on the other stuff?


 No. Since the components were not Retail, there are no extras. You should have gotten the mobo CD and any CDRW, DVD, Floppy, Modem, Videocard, or Hdd CD,s or floppy diskettes that came with the components if there were any.



> The monitor is real nice.  I've updated the driver and will download the manual to see what I should be fiddling around with. Before I do that, does it have a 'go back to factory setting' feature?


 Once the monitor is installed, get the latest drivers, open Device Manager, go to Monitors, open, click on Update Driver and install the new AOC drivers. Push center button, all settings are accessible and self explanatory. If the picture doesn't completely fill the screen, push center button, rotate button to H-Size(this will widen/shrink screen size), then to V-Size(this will increase/decrease the heighth). "Recall" will put things back to default.



> I do not notice the speed yet because all I'm doing is installing programs on it - altjough I must admit the installations are going pretty fast.


 That's ONE indication of the difference right there.

http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=32

Go to the above website and download the Enterprise version. This will give you just about everything there is to know about your system components,etc.



> I set it up and almost freaked when it was dead until I remembered what you said about the switch in the back!


 Making me chuckle!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> 
> No. Since the components were not Retail, there are no extras. You should have gotten the mobo CD and any CDRW, DVD, Floppy, Modem, Videocard, or Hdd CD,s or floppy diskettes that came with the components if there were any.*


*

Okay - thanks.




Once the monitor is installed, get the latest drivers, open Device Manager, go to Monitors, open, click on Update Driver and install the new AOC drivers. Push center button, all settings are accessible and self explanatory. If the picture doesn't completely fill the screen, push center button, rotate button to H-Size(this will widen/shrink screen size), then to V-Size(this will increase/decrease the heighth). "Recall" will put things back to default.

Click to expand...

Thanks! This monitor was really worth the drive *and* the getting lost to get. I love it!




http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=32
Go to the above website and download the Enterprise version. This will give you just about everything there is to know about your system components,etc.

Click to expand...

Wow! What a great program. Thank you!



Making me chuckle!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

*LOL! I thought it would!

Will Keep you posted.

Thank you!!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Go to this website and download 3DMark2001SE:

http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark2001.shtml

Go here and download the patch for above:

http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark2001patch.shtml

Read and install including patch. Reboot. Hit Alt-Ctrl-Del buttons. Click on Task Manager, then Processes. Highlight and hit remove button for each unnecessary process. I usually have around 38 running and get down to about 28. A window will popup and not let you remove most of them, that way you can't hurt anything. When finished, run 3DMark2001SE bench. Click on the Change button, click on Default(make sure it's at 1024x768x32 and Antialiasing is NONE) and then hit the Benchmark button and WATCH!!!!!!!! At the end a score will show. Make a note of it to compare to when your other parts come in and get installed. Also, post back here with your score. There is NO need to change any settings, etc. to get a better score as that is not what we are doing. We only want a base score to compare to when the system is completely finished!



> Thanks! This monitor was really worth the drive *and* the getting lost to get. I love it!


 Thought you would!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLeartnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Go to this website and download 3DMark2001SE:*


*
 This is *so*cool! I'm going to hook up the computer to the internet tonight if I can - otherwise tomorrow and do it! Thanks!

I'm also going to benchmark my computer which I was told was state of the art a year and a half ago and see how that compares. 



At the end a score will show. Make a note of it to compare to when your other parts come in and get installed. Also, post back here with your score. There is NO need to change any settings, etc. to get a better score as that is not what we are doing. We only want a base score to compare to when the system is completely finished!

Click to expand...

I am so curious and a little nervous to see what the score is - I shall post it as soon as I can!

Thank you!!!

Vivienne*


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I should have waited till they got all the components before I took it home - like you recommended. So far it has been the system from hell. 

I tried to run 3dmark and at first it froze, then it started and just shut off and then it said '3d was not able to detect the required minimum features in your 3d accelerator.'

I left it alone and installed something that needed reboot. On reboot it said 'NTLDR missing'. I fiddled and stuff and decided that I would just reinstall Windows. I couldn't find my XP PRO disk in the box they gave me so I installed it from my regular XP. It wanted to install it on my E: drive. I didn't know what to do, so I let it. 

I tried to install Aida and stuff and the computer rebooted all by itself. It did this twice and I gave up.

I am going to bring it back, make them put XP PRO back on and give me the disk. 

I noticed that when the computer booted it up, it said memory frequency at 166 Mhz. They said they gave me 2700 - 333 Mhz memory. Is it dividing it up because I have two sticks or did they not give me 333 Mhz memory.

I am going to wait for you to comment and then I will take the computer back.

Ugh!

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: The reason for the 3dMark bench is for video which I thought would be great since this system was for gaming and video stuff. It is NOT a total system bench, just video. For a total system bench, go here and download:

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.html?dir=dload&location=sware_dl_x86&langx=en&a=



> I noticed that when the computer booted it up, it said memory frequency at 166 Mhz. They said they gave me 2700 - 333 Mhz memory. Is it dividing it up because I have two sticks or did they not give me 333 Mhz memory.


 166 x 2 = 333. It's okay. That's the way it reads even if there is only 1 stick.



> the internet was down! It's up now but flaky.





> I do not notice the speed yet because all I'm doing is installing programs on it





> My son comes for a sleepover tonight and I'll ask him to bring a game and see if he notices a big difference.





> I tried to run 3dmark and at first it froze, then it started and just shut off and then it said '3d was not able to detect the required minimum features in your 3d accelerator.'





> I left it alone and installed something that needed reboot. On reboot it said 'NTLDR missing'. I fiddled and stuff and decided that I would just reinstall Windows. I couldn't find my XP PRO disk in the box they gave me so I installed it from my regular XP. It wanted to install it on my E: drive. I didn't know what to do, so I let it.


 As for the 3dMark attempt, the video settings in the BIOS/videocard do not seem to be setup properly.

I don't know why "E" would be the designated system harddrive(from your other system, I presume), but "NTLDR" is "loading driver error" related to disk drives "usually".

You need to take it back to the shop and have it fixed. You should *NEVER* install/reinstall a copy of XP unless it is the "ORIGINAL" support disk copy for the system you are using! They may not have included a support disk since the system was going to be reconfigured(shortly, we hope) anyway.

Did the system work okay BEFORE you started installing the "other" software/programs?? Regardless, it needs to go back ( and personally, I would leave it until the complete original system is built and tested).


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> As for the 3dMark attempt, the video settings in the BIOS/videocard do not seem to be setup properly.


I shall point it out to them.



> I don't know why "E" would be the designated system harddrive(from your other system, I presume), but "NTLDR" is "loading driver error" related to disk drives "usually".


I checked it with Partition Magic - it was set up with E: being the active partition. I shall tell them about the "NTLDR". Shall I ask them to check my disk drive? I did an internet search and it seems to be happening with a lot of people and no solution that I could find that helped all of them.



> You need to take it back to the shop and have it fixed.


I will go tomorrow. The tech is not in today and I want to fool around with it some more. 


> Did the system work okay BEFORE you started installing the "other" software/programs??


Sort of. It rebooted itself a couple of times but only when I was in OE. Maybe it had something to do with that.



> Regardless, it needs to go back ( and personally, I would leave it until the complete original system is built and tested). [/B]


I'm having a hard time leaving it!

Thanks once again!!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I managed to put Windows XP on it - the C: Drive. ( I am now just fooling around. I will take it to be properly done tomorrow). I notice though, that my other partitions and the CDROM drive were not named the way I would like them to be. Is there a way to fix that. i.e. changing CDROM from H: to D: for example. This would be good to know if I ever had to do another install. 
I did an internet search but I must not be searching the right 'words' as I couldn't find anything.

Much appreciated again! 

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

It's okay - I found out how to change the drive designations.

I'm going to fiddle some more.



Vivienne

QUOTE]_Originally posted by vivienne:_
*Hi StillLearnin'

I managed to put Windows XP on it - the C: Drive. ( I am now just fooling around. I will take it to be properly done tomorrow). I notice though, that my other partitions and the CDROM drive were not named the way I would like them to be. Is there a way to fix that. i.e. changing CDROM from H: to D: for example. This would be good to know if I ever had to do another install. 
I did an internet search but I must not be searching the right 'words' as I couldn't find anything.

Much appreciated again!

Vivienne*


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Sort of. It rebooted itself a couple of times but only when I was in OE. Maybe it had something to do with that.


 What were you doing in OE to cause rebooting? This whole internet deal sounds screwed up.



> It's okay - I found out how to change the drive designations.


 With the "NTLDR" problems you're having, this is NOT the time to be changing to WinXP HOME from WinXP Pro (or using the XP disc that you already had instead of the one for the system as it came from the shop-XP Pro) or attempting to re-assign drive letters!



> I am now just fooling around. I will take it to be properly done tomorrow).


 Don't be surprised if they charge you for having to reset the system up. Even if it wasn't working quite right before, now that you have gone in and made all these changes, the system is NOT configured properly for the components installed and the system should be setup all over again from scratch!!

Most system configurations:

3.5 Floppy (A

(B is usually reserved for another 3.5 drive (floppy, zip, etc)

System (C Whether single drive or RAID setup

Compact Disc (D Such as CD-ROM, DVD or CDRW

Compact Disc (E Such as CD-ROM, DVD, CDRW

Slave (F Second or backup harddrive

Removable Disc (G USB drives like Media Card Readers, ZIP, cameras, etc.

This is using one operating system, not dual or triple; ie: 98/2000, 98/2000/XP.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne
> What were you doing in OE to cause rebooting? This whole internet deal sounds screwed up.


Nothing - I wasn't even connected to the internet - just transferring address books, etc.



> With the "NTLDR" problems you're having, this is NOT the time to be changing to WinXP HOME from WinXP Pro (or using the XP disc that you already had instead of the one for the system as it came from the shop-XP Pro) or attempting to re-assign drive letters!


I'm not changing systems - just seeing what I can do with it now that I have it. I expect them to reinstall Windows XPPRO - not to fix things on my XP Home edition and I'm not changing any bios settings or anything.



> Most system configurations:


Thanks!

I'll leave it alone now - till tomorrow. The damage is done. I should have left it alone last night. :-(

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I'll leave it alone now - till tomorrow. The damage is done. I should have left it alone last night.


 Sooooooooo TRUE!! When you got it home and it didn't work right, you should have called them to let them know. If it was after hours and there was no tech support, you should have shutdown the system until you could contact them. Now that it's been messed with, they can ACTUALLY blame you for it not working! They can, however, go into the error logs and see what was going on from the beginning. Good luck tomorrow!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> They can, however, go into the error logs and see what was going on from the beginning. Good luck tomorrow!! *


No they can't even do that because I reinstalled Windows XP so I am presuming the error logs are gone.

Ugh! Thanks for the good luck! I am going to need it - I feel so nervous.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I phoned them and they will reinstall the XPPRO. I've told them also about 3dmark and they will have a look at that as well. I've told them that I received no warranty information for the CPU and Motherboard and hard drive. They said the hard drive was not retail and they gave me everything for the CPU and motherboard. I got two booklets for the motherboard but couldn't find any info on warranties. I got nothing at all for the CPU. How does this work at your shop and shouldn't it be the same here ?

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: From page 8 in this thread:

"Standard Warranty Information
RBC Complete Systems (A complete system consists of products which allow for a complete installation of an operating system. Monitor is not required. Damage caused by excessive dust, lightning strike, abuse and/or lack of maintance will not be covered)

- Standard: 1 Year Parts/Labour
Professional: 1 Year Parts/2 Years Labour
Premium: 2 Years Parts/3 Years Labour"

I would get the Premium. It costs $129.00. That's $100 over 2 more years for labor. If the normal labor charges are $50 per hour, the 2 yrs. coverage is equal to ONLY 2 hrs. of non-covered labor."

Dealer link:

http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/help/warranty.php

If all the parts are OEM (anything but Retail) then the warranty will ONLY be ONE year. This is why on page 8 I suggested you get the Premium Warranty.



> I got nothing at all for the CPU. How does this work at your shop and shouldn't it be the same here ?


 No. We only use Retail parts (they come with 3 year warranty that way; also installation CDs, booklets, floppies, cables, extra software, etc.) because our warranty for parts/labor is 3 years(no extra charge for the warranty). This causes the system price to be a little higher because of higher component cost, but we feel it's the only way to build. Things go bad (on the average) two ways: Within 6 months or a little after 2 years. One year warranty just doesn't justify what can happen after that first year passes (yea, I know; buy new every 3 years). The 3 year turnaround sounds nice, but not unless the systems would average $500 or less would it be prudent to replace that often. These cheap, cheap prices can't continue forever or there won't be any manufacturers left! By using OEM parts and giving short 1 yr. warranty, the vendors can lower prices yet make more money.



> No they can't even do that because I reinstalled Windows XP so I am presuming the error logs are gone.


 Did you Completely do a FRESH install; Reformat, reassign drives, etc. or install OVER the previous OS?


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: From page 8 in this thread:


Yes - I understood that and I did get the Premium. But the CPU and the motherboard are Retail so I was expecting warranty cards for those.



> No. We only use Retail parts (they come with 3 year warranty that way; also installation CDs, booklets, floppies, cables, extra software, etc.) because our warranty for parts/labor is 3 years(no extra charge for the warranty). This causes the system price to be a little higher because of higher component cost, but we feel it's the only way to build. Things go bad (on the average) two ways: Within 6 months or a little after 2 years. One year warranty just doesn't justify what can happen after that first year passes (yea, I know; buy new every 3 years). The 3 year turnaround sounds nice, but not unless the systems would average $500 or less would it be prudent to replace that often. These cheap, cheap prices can't continue forever or there won't be any manufacturers left! By using OEM parts and giving short 1 yr. warranty, the vendors can lower prices yet make more money.


Interesting. Thanks!


> Did you Completely do a FRESH install; Reformat, reassign drives, etc. or install OVER the previous OS?


A fresh install thereby losing everything I had been putting on it for almost two days. I learned lots, though, so I don't consider it a waste. I knew Windows 98 so much better than XP. So I guess I'm learning XP the hard way (much like I learned 98).

I go tomorrow - I'll post when I get back.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Just got back and things are looking up. 

The Corsair memory is in and they told me that the owner said that if my video card didn't come in real soon - like maybe tomorrow - he might just upgrade me to the AIW 9700 PRO.
They will check the video card settings and stuff, install XPPRO and then hopefully that'll be it!

Can't wait once again.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> The Corsair memory is in and they told me that the owner said that if my video card didn't come in real soon - like maybe tomorrow - he might just upgrade me to the AIW 9700 PRO.


 Sounds great. Let's hope the 9700Pro doesn't arrive and they put in the AIW for the same price!!



> They will check the video card settings and stuff


 That will make NO difference until they install the new videocard because the Slew Rate, etc. have to be set differently anyway.

I suggest (this time) when you get it home, to install the AOC drivers and then test drive the system ( open/close different windows, test keyboard/mouse, etc. BEFORE you start installing a bunch of software). If everything is working fine, then setup the Internet connection. Once that is accomplished and working properly( if you haven't already purchased/have it), install Norton SystemWorks 2003. Install your antivirus software and the Norton utilities ( these work MUCH better/faster than the Windows version), get the stuff updated (over the internet) and run the One Button Checkup. This may take awhile. Follow the instructions until the Checkup is finished. Download the FREE version of ZoneAlarm for your Firewall security and install. DISABLE the AntiVirus and Firewall BEFORE installing ANY software! This should be done ANYTIME new software is being installed! Patience and correct procedure will allow for trouble-free ( hopefully) software installation. Make sure everything you install is the latest version or is the WinXP version! WinXP is kinda persnickety and can give you some grief, so do it RIGHT the FIRST time. EXCITEMENT REIGNS SUPREME!!!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> Sounds great. Let's hope the 9700Pro doesn't arrive and they put in the AIW for the same price!!





> I suggest (this time) when you get it home, to install the AOC drivers and then test drive the system ( open/close different windows, test keyboard/mouse, etc. BEFORE you start installing a bunch of software). If everything is working fine, then setup the Internet connection.


Thanks! That's not what I did before. In fact I never connected it to the internet at all. 


> Once that is accomplished and working properly( if you haven't already purchased/have it), install Norton SystemWorks 2003.


I have 2002 version that I will use. In fact, before you mentioned this I wasn't going to use it at all. Instead I was going to download the Free AVG one and clean the registry with the free JV16 tools. The reason I wasn't going to use Norton is because it's a hell of a job uninstalling it if ever the need should arise and it cleans registry and stuff without showing you what it's doing or allowing you to make a backup if things go wrong. Are these valid reasons for preferring the other two programs?


> DISABLE the AntiVirus and Firewall BEFORE installing ANY software! This should be done ANYTIME new software is being installed!


I never knew that!


> Patience and correct procedure will allow for trouble-free ( hopefully) software installation. Make sure everything you install is the latest version or is the WinXP version! WinXP is kinda persnickety and can give you some grief, so do it RIGHT the FIRST time.


I am only putting in software that I have used on my WinXP that have not given any problems. My system is pretty stable so I'm assuming it would be just as stable on the PRO.


> EXCITEMENT REIGNS SUPREME!!!!!!


  
Thanks for all the advice and warnings! I shall follow them religiously.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Should I do a 'burn in' when I get it? I could download a trial version of something. 

Thanks!


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Should I do a 'burn in' when I get it?


 From page 10:

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.h...x86&langx=en&a=

Download this, then run the Burn-in Wizard. After running the Sandra, run the 3dMark2001SE in looping(3). Do maintenance and run everything again. The burn-in done nowadays is mostly to make sure the system is configured correctly, not to test the quality of the parts. SystemWorks has a benchmarking tool also.



> I have 2002 version that I will use. In fact, before you mentioned this I wasn't going to use it at all. Instead I was going to download the Free AVG one and clean the registry with the free JV16 tools. The reason I wasn't going to use Norton is because it's a hell of a job uninstalling it if ever the need should arise and it cleans registry and stuff without showing you what it's doing or allowing you to make a backup if things go wrong. Are these valid reasons for preferring the other two programs?


 If you have Norton SystemWorks 2002, a backup utility is included in it. We've un-installed Norton thousands of times when updating (free in the 3 yr. warranty/labor) to the newer version and never had any problems. I am not familiar with the "AVG, JV16" software. I, quite briefly, did some research and found the effectiveness comparison rate to be about 65% compared to Norton at 95%. One of the techs here said we've had new customer drop-off repair jobs that had virus infection and had these utilities (but I've seen viruses penetrate Norton, Symantec, etc. because of failure to have UPDATED protection too, sooooooooooooo).



> In fact I never connected it to the internet at all.





> I then went to write to tell you - the internet was down! It's up now but flaky.


 Sorry, I thought (above quote) you were on the web with the NEW computer. Evidently you were using your other one.

Is today, the DAY????????????????


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Here, I forgot this link:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17133&sid=f42f2d8da6ca2e4acec4f7e83f2df81d

After you download Sandra and run it, go here to compare with near identical systems.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> From page 10:
> http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.h...x86&langx=en&a=
> Download this, then run the Burn-in Wizard.


Do I choose full stress - run 10 times?


> After running the Sandra, run the 3dMark2001SE in looping(3). Do maintenance and run everything again.


What do you mean by do maintenance?


> The burn-in done nowadays is mostly to make sure the system is configured correctly, not to test the quality of the parts.


I can download Passmark Burn in - they say that's what that program is used for. Their default is 50% stress for 15 minutes but you can change that.



> SystemWorks has a benchmarking tool also.


My 2002 doesn't and it doesn't have a back up program either. I think WinXPPro has a backup program. Shall I use that? I have Drive Image 2002. Shall I use that?

I'll use the Norton instead of the other two programs. Do I have to worry that Norton will clean things from my registry that I would need?


> Is today, the DAY????????????????


 Yes! I called them this morning - they have everything. I was too scared to ask which video card they were using as I talked to the tech instead of the salesman. He said he was just putting on drivers, etc. and he would call me when it was ready - it will be today!  

I am so excited! I shall keep you posted.

Thanks tons!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Do I choose full stress - run 10 times?


 Run once, at 3, at 5, at 7, at 10.



> What do you mean by do maintenance?


 Defrag, Disk Optimization, clear cache, etc.



> I can download Passmark Burn in - they say that's what that program is used for. Their default is 50% stress for 15 minutes but you can change that.


 It dawned on me after the last post to suggest that very software, as I like using it also.



> My 2002 doesn't and it doesn't have a back up program either. I think WinXPPro has a backup program. Shall I use that?


 For now. Since you have the 2002 Norton, you should be able to upgrade to 2003 for around $60.00, I believe. Maybe including other rebates, even cheaper. Whoops! Forgot we're talking Canadian prices! Weblink:

http://nct.symantecstore.com/0001/upgrade_center.html

The 2003 edition is MUCH improved over 2002.



> Do I have to worry that Norton will clean things from my registry that I would need?


 Not to my knowledge!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Thanks! One question - if I disable anti-virus when I install new products, does that not defeat the purpose?

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

:-( :-(

No computer today. They couldn't resolve some problem with the firewire and are swapping out the motherboard. 

They'll phone me when they have it resolved.

Sigh.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: The CD, floppy, or downloaded files/folders can be scanned WITHOUT OPENING before installation if you are concerned the items might contain a virus. Example: You just downloaded Ulead Photo Explorer. Right-click on the folder, click on Scan with Norton AntiVirus. Example 2: Make sure AutoPlay is disabled in CD/ DVD/ CDRW-ROM, and Floppy drives. Insert cd, dvd, or floppy and right-click on drive, then click on Scan with Norton AntiVirus. If Auto-Protect is enabled in Norton the downloads are scanned anyway (actually, All activities are monitored while the computer is on). From Norton AntiVirus Help:

"Which file types to scan for viruses 
Comprehensive (recommended): Scans all programs and file types.

Scan files using SmartScan: Scans files with file extensions listed in the Program File Extensions dialog box. Click Customize to view or edit the list of file extensions that are scanned by Auto-Protect. SmartScan also scans all program executable files (.exe files) and Microsoft Office documents, regardless of whether they have extensions in the extension list."



> They couldn't resolve some problem with the firewire and are swapping out the motherboard.


 Fortunately we haven't had the firewire problem (don't ask why, we just haven't). I did some research and there seems to be some problems with Antec cases, something about the power connectors not being correct or something (it seems Chieftec and some others have the same problem). It's got to do with the pin configuration(groundwires, not enough connector pins or something associated with that it seems). There are various problems with the firewire, however it appears the majority of it is DEFECTIVE mobos. If these guys are used to setting up this mobo (like they said!), the issue should get resolved soon (hopefully).


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## TheRef310 (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RSM123:_
> *Vivienne,
> 
> In addition to opinions here take a look here :
> ...


I personally like the www.micropro.com or www.pricewatch.com if ordering from the net...

The system sounds great...beter than mine, and I'm a pretty hardcore gamer...one question? Do you really need 80 gigs? I have 60, and I've still got over 30 left.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: The CD, floppy, or downloaded files/folders can be scanned WITHOUT OPENING before installation if you are concerned the items might contain a virus.


I didn't know! That's good to know as I can scan before I install anything.


> If Auto-Protect is enabled in Norton the downloads are scanned anyway


This is where I got confused, I think. Because you had said 'disable', I thought it wouldn't be scanning. I still think that so I should just scan the programs before I install. Did I get that right? Thanks for the explanation from Symantec.


> Fortunately we haven't had the firewire problem (don't ask why, we just haven't). I did some research


I suspect they will not do the research. I hope it just is a motherboard problem (and not my Antec case) and it resolves when they switch mother boards as they could just give me the computer with the firewire not working and I would never know as I do not have anything that uses it to try it out. How does a person know if everything on their board is functioning without actually trying it out? Is there a software program that does that?


> If these guys are used to setting up this mobo (like they said!),


They don't do everything they say. ie. they promise to phone and never do. When I get really nervous about it, I call them. In the meantime my system has dropped almost a $100 while I wait - and it is already paid for. Frustrating!

They open at 10 tomorrow. I shall call them at 10:30. I'll let you know the progress. It always makes me feel better when you know.

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi TheRef310



> Originally posted by TheRef310:
> I personally like the www.micropro.com or www.pricewatch.com if ordering from the net...


It's already been ordered locally.


> The system sounds great...beter than mine, and I'm a pretty hardcore gamer


Glad to hear a gamer say that. 


> ...one question? Do you really need 80 gigs? I have 60, and I've still got over 30 left.


The difference between a 40 and an 80 was only about $20. So I thought 'why not?'

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Because you had said 'disable', I thought it wouldn't be scanning. I still think that so I should just scan the programs before I install. Did I get that right?


 If you are that concerned about the installation then, scan first, then disable, then install.



> I would never know as I do not have anything that uses it to try it out.


 Digital cameras, camcorders are a couple of examples.



> How does a person know if everything on their board is functioning without actually trying it out? Is there a software program that does that?


 No. Hardware must be PLUGGED IN to complete the connection for the end result to indicate working/non-working.



> In the meantime my system has dropped almost a $100 while I wait - and it is already paid for. Frustrating!


 I noticed that when I was looking on their website the other day. However, in the field of technology these days, after 6 months you start to feel outdated even though most of the time you don't come close to maxing out your computer! For example; I was downloading something off the Internet ( had 18 windows open), had Word, Powerpoint, and Publisher open, 4 Photo apps (including Adobe Photoshop) and was burning CDs and my CPU usage never went above 10%. 60% memory available. That's alot of computing power sitting idle and this computer is 3 years old!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> If you are that concerned about the installation then, scan first, then disable, then install.


LOL! I was just trying to understand. I am putting on software that I have been using and know to be virus free. So I am not concerned.


> Digital cameras, camcorders are a couple of examples.


Do they not have to be bought 'firewire ready'?


> I noticed that when I was looking on their website the other day.


I wouldn't have felt bad if I had use of the computer! It's just the idea of paying for it and then watching it fall in price while it is delayed for various reasons. 


> For example; I was downloading something off the Internet ( had 18 windows open), had Word, Powerpoint, and Publisher open, 4 Photo apps (including Adobe Photoshop) and was burning CDs and my CPU usage never went above 10%. 60% memory available. That's alot of computing power sitting idle and this computer is 3 years old!!!


Wow! Will mine do that !! I'll have to check mine when I'm doing some stuff. Is the best way using 'task manager'? It doesn't give a percentage for memory. I've got to calculate it. I miss Windows 98 or I just haven't been using XP long enough to know how to do stuff.

Five and a half more hours and I call them. I'm going to try to get back to sleep.

Maybe it will be today!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne> Some components (ie; the cameras as mentioned) may come iEEE 1394 ready. This means there is a plug-in on the device and cable so you can hookup to your computer and view/download directly. Your computer MUST have a Firewire (iEEE 1394) port enabled in order to do this. Sony USED to include Firewire cards with alot of their cameras, however not so much anymore. Having just purchased a new Sony TRV33 camcorder ( and since I have NO Firewire ports on my personal computer), I am going to purchase some Pinnacle DV software that includes a Fireware card and then will be able to download/edit/etc. without using the USB ports. I already have 7 devices hooked up to USB and 5 of them need full powered USB ports ( not daisy-chained ) for proper performance, so I decided to go with Firewire on the camcorder. I always open Task Manager because it's convinient and just estimate/calculate (after all, there is a built-in calculator if you don't have one sitting on your desk!) Start Menu, Programs, Accessories, Calculator, Standard/Scientific.

By the way, if you download and install Zone Alarm for your firewall, DISABLE the Windows firewall in XP. The XP firewall does "NOT" stop information from "LEAVING" your computer, only "PARTIALLY" from entering! How to disable in XP:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/networking/icf.asp

*Remember: on updating your software to get the XP updates before installing! I'll be back later......................


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne> Some components (ie; the cameras as mentioned) may come iEEE 1394 ready. This means there is a plug-in on the device and cable so you can hookup to your computer and view/download directly.


Great! They have one of those! I thought that it had to be a special type of cable.



> I always open Task Manager because it's convinient and just estimate/calculate (after all, there is a built-in calculator)





> By the way, if you download and install Zone Alarm for your firewall, DISABLE the Windows firewall in XP. The XP firewall does "NOT" stop information from "LEAVING" your computer, only "PARTIALLY" from entering!


I will disable for sure. Thanks.


> *Remember: on updating your software to get the XP updates before installing!


I will - thanks - I didn't when I had it on the weekend. Do you have to activate to get those updates?

I just thought of something. You know how I told you that our little five year old was upset because she couldn't run her favourite programs on XP? What do you think of a dual boot ? The old hard drive is in the system as it was - Windows 98 still installed on it. Can I dual boot with that? Or can I make a boot disk to start Win 98? I was reading that Win98 had to be on the c: drive. Is this true?

Thanks.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I have picked up the computer and have not set it up yet. They said that they ran 3dmark all night long and it was fine and running this morning, the case was cool and everything seems to be rock solid. I asked them to reprice the computer as of today and they said no, because it was the cpu that dropped - not the components they were waiting for. They gave me a $30.00 discount - better than nothing, I guess.

So, I'm off to check it out and will let you know!

I think we're coming close to the end.  I'm sure you will be relieved - you have so spent so much time on this! Thank you!

Vivienne


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## GLiO (Dec 12, 2002)

*Nevermind


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I have an absolutley great computer. It is fantastic!! Thank you!!!!
I will write more as I do something with it.  Benchmarks, updates, etc. 


> I just thought of something. You know how I told you that our little five year old was upset because she couldn't run her favourite programs on XP? What do you think of a dual boot ?


Please tell me what you think of this idea. I am not doing anything like this unless you give your okay. Because Windows 98 has to be the boot drive I am thinking of:

Partitioning the drive in two: Fat32 on 1st partion NTFS on second

1. Make a drive image of what is on c: 
2. Install Windows 98 on the first partition
3. Restore XP to the second partition
4. Use Partition Magic's Qboot

Is that brilliant or stupid?

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: As of the 1st of this month, Win98 was NO LONGER!!!. No more support, no nothing. Well, I guess there will be support for 3-6 months at the high dollar Microsoft phone rates. I wouldn't have "98" anywhere around especially with the components in this system. These newer components are not designed to really be compatible with an operating system as ancient as 98. We've seen several problems with some systems that people tried to run 98/XP.



> The old hard drive is in the system as it was - Windows 98 still installed on it.


 I just noticed this. You mean the "old" harddrive with Win98 is installed in the NEW system with all the data, games, etc. that were previously on it? If so, this isn't good. Win98 and WinXP are not good mates on the same system. WinXP will not be able to stop the BSOD/etc. that is so well known with Win98 ( there are other driver conflicts, etc.). There will probably be some readers of this thread that will say to "go ahead and do it and don't worry, it'll work just fine!" This is not my view. Of course we dumped Win98 as soon as Win2000Pro became available and still prefer it over all current and past operating systems. This is partially based on the low, low, number of problems caused by this OS. I also believe in NTFS only, because of the stability and better security. One vote against ( well actually, 5 because no-one else here likes the idea either.) Maybe you should start a new thread and ask: Can I dual boot Win98 and WinXPPro? See what replies you get.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin' 



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> Maybe you should start a new thread and ask: Can I dual boot Win98 and WinXPPro? See what replies you get. _


_
Maybe I'll do that at another time. In the meantime, I have scrapped dual booting.

I cannot believe how fast this system is! So much faster than it was when I had it over the weekend. It is an absolute dream.

However, I am writing this from my old computer as I cannot connect to the internet. :-( I have been on hold with my ISP for over an hour and I finally gave up. I'll try again in the morning.

The monitor is fantastic.

I am still so excited.

I'll write again when I do some benchmarks and stuff and connect to the internet. I am getting tired of connecting and disconnecting the two computers. 

Big hug

Vivienne_


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I'm connected! Yay! The tech had me unplug the modem and do a few other things and I'm up. I'm going to bed now and can't wait till tomorrow when I will use it again.

I can't tell you how much I love this computer. I am sorely tempted to keep it and tell the kids to buy their own! LOL!

It wouldn't have happened without you, StillLearnin'.

  

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I can't tell you how much I love this computer. I am sorely tempted to keep it and tell the kids to buy their own!


 AHAAA!!!!!!!! I knew it!!!!



> It wouldn't have happened without you, StillLearnin'.


 I don't know about that!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

The only major thing left is connecting my speakers and making the rear speakers work. I simply can't do it and have posted to the NForces Forum as some of the guys there said they did use these speakers and liked them.

After having said I would not have had this great system without you, you said:


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> I don't know about that!!!


Well, I do! You've been absolutley phenomenal through all this. Knowledgeable, intelligent, as well as patient, caring and perfect. I am going to miss you, now that this is about over. The first thing I did when I woke up was check for a post from you and the last thing at night was the same.

If you ever want to visit our nation's capital, I assure you that we will look after you and make sure you have a wonderful time. I want to give you my email address so that you can send me a note anytime you feel like getting away from it all for awhile. How do I do that?

With my lots of thanks and appreciation

Vivienne

P.S. We have named the computer after you. It has been christened "StillLearnin".


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: From your nForcersHQ thread:



> Thanks for that! I just spoke to the store and they said that both the tech who puts computers together and the owner have computers with this board and they have no sound issues. The tech uses the Z-640 speakers and says they are fine. So I guess I'll just order them, see what it sounds like and go from there.


 Did you contact the tech and ask him how he sets them up? He should help you with that as part of selling you the system. It falls under "Tech Support".

"I want to give you my email address"

I think i set it up so you could PM me. Here's a link about that:

http://forums.techguy.org/misc.php?s=&action=faq&page=2#email

About the christening............................. This is better than an award from Canada's Quality Institute!

"I accept this honor and would like to thank those along the way for their input and ideas. I would also like to thank the *Tech Support Guy* forums for making all of this possible. To be able to guide someone on a path to satisfaction and happiness is a very fulfilling experience. Once again, my profound thanks for this wonderful honor!"


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: I don't know if this will help or not:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2206


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: I don't know if this will help or not:
> 
> http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2206 *


Thanks for going to all that trouble!! It helped tons because I didn't know there was a sound setup wizard on the Nividia card control panel. I didn't know the answers to the questions it asked so I kept trying different combinations till I got one that worked. We now have beautiful sound as well - no hisses, no crackles or anything! Thank you!!!

The kids are coming over for a sleepover. I will read the part about PM and email you there as soon as I can. This computer has me under some kind of spell. This is the first time I wished they were not coming for their sleepover so I could just have some uniterrupted time with it. 

Thanks once more and I'll write as soon as I can.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> About the christening............................. This is better than an award from Canada's Quality Institute!


LOL!


> "I accept this honor and would like to thank those along the way for their input and ideas. I would also like to thank the *Tech Support Guy* forums for making all of this possible. To be able to guide someone on a path to satisfaction and happiness is a very fulfilling experience. Once again, my profound thanks for this wonderful honor!" [/B]


 

Of course, I should have also thanked everyone else who had a part in this! Thank you!!! A special thanks also to Zeddy whose 'Blimey' really got me going.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Did you end up with the ATI AIW or the original 9700Pro? You never said. In fact, did you end up with the system we designed? Why don't you post your system specs so the followers of this saga may see the end result! Pretty D*MN fast AND smooth, isn't it?


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne: Did you end up with the ATI AIW or the original 9700Pro?*


*

The original 9700 PRO.




In fact, did you end up with the system we designed? Why don't you post your system specs so the followers of this saga may see the end result! Pretty D*MN fast AND smooth, isn't it?

Click to expand...

*It is incredible and it isn't even 'optimized'. A few minutes ago, I ran some kind of diagnostics from ATI and it said that Direct X was set up incorrectly and that the capture driver was missing. So I will download the newest Direct X.

I got a 3d Mark reading of over 14000! I can't find a way to run a Sisoft composite benchmark.

The only thing I may have done differently was get a case that is not so heavy - my son in law is stronger than us so he'll be okay with it. 

The specs as we wanted them - nothing changed.

AOC 9KLR Monitor
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Processor
ASUS A7n8x Deluxe Motherboard - version 2.0
Western Digital 80 gb 8mb 7200 RPM hard drive
Liteon 16x DVD drive
Liteon 52x24x52 CD-RW drive
Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive
Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG casing with 430 watt PS 
Logitech MX300 Optical Mouse
Logitech Z640 5.1 Speaker set
Corsair Twin-X-512-3200LL (2x256) Dual Channel DDR Kit
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb AGP video card
Microsoft Windows Pro OEM
2 year parts, 3year labour warranty

I can't say enough how I love it - I am sure going to miss it when I give it to the kids next week.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> It is incredible and it isn't even 'optimized'. A few minutes ago, I ran some kind of diagnostics from ATI and it said that Direct X was set up incorrectly and that the capture driver was missing. So I will download the newest Direct X.





> I got a 3d Mark reading of over 14000!


 MOST people would KILL for that 3dMark bench score, especially on an untweaked, non-optimized system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you even turn off any of the background processes or just install it and run a bench?


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I hope this answer doesn't appear twice. I answered this or thought I did a few hours ago but I don't see it so I'm going to answer again.
QUOTE]_Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
*vivienne: 
MOST people would KILL for that 3dMark bench score, especially on an untweaked, non-optimized system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you even turn off any of the background processes or just install it and run a bench? *[/QUOTE]
 The 3dmark software was on my machine when I got it home. The shop said they ran it all night and in the morning, it was still stable and cool. Ooops - I forgot about turning off the processes! I did, however, run it before I opened any programs.

Is there any benchmark software I could use to benchmark the complete system?

Thanks.

Vivienne

P.S. You want to hear something mean? I told the kids the system wouldn't be ready till next weekend. I get to use it a few days more. Originally I had told them they could have it tomorrow but I hate to part with it. I'm sure they know the reason.


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: From page 11 you stated:



> I can download Passmark Burn in - they say that's what that program is used for. Their default is 50% stress for 15 minutes but you can change that.


 and I replied:



> It dawned on me after the last post to suggest that very software, as I like using it also


 Download it , run it and post your score.



> P.S. You want to hear something mean? I told the kids the system wouldn't be ready till next weekend. I get to use it a few days more. Originally I had told them they could have it tomorrow but I hate to part with it. I'm sure they know the reason.


 I AM RENDERED SPEECHLESS AND AM AGHAST AT THE SAME TIME!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: From page 11 you stated:
> Download it , run it and post your score.


It just has Pass and Fail but Passmark has a Performance one with a score - should I try that one?


> I AM RENDERED SPEECHLESS AND AM AGHAST AT THE SAME TIME!


LOL! Okay, okay, I'll give it to them on Tuesday. They are here tonight and tomorrow so I can't work on it. On Monday I'll install Direct X and a few of the programs they brought with them for me to put on and check it out again. You should have seen their faces when I booted it for them. Just the boot impressed them. They love their new monitor! Wait till they start using this system! [/QUOTE]

I'm so happy.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:Sorry.

http://www.passmark.com/download/index.htm

Download Performance Test 4.0



> On Monday I'll install Direct X


 I don't understand why the latest DirectX isn't already installed. Link:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...22-0B25-4E5D-A584-6389D8A3DAD0&displaylang=en



> You should have seen their faces when I booted it for them. Just the boot impressed them


 " Come on kids. Let's go in the candy store. NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY CANDY!!!!!!"


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

*zeddy:* From page 7:



> Seriously, I hope this computer is going to be worth all this excitement





> vivienne:





> It is incredible and it isn't even 'optimized'. A few minutes ago, I ran some kind of diagnostics from ATI and it said that Direct X was set up incorrectly and that the capture driver was missing.





> I got a 3d Mark reading of over 14000!


 The specs as we wanted them - nothing changed.

AOC 9KLR Monitor
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Processor
ASUS A7n8x Deluxe Motherboard - version 2.0
Western Digital 80 gb 8mb 7200 RPM hard drive
Liteon 16x DVD drive
Liteon 52x24x52 CD-RW drive
Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive
Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG casing with 430 watt PS 
Logitech MX300 Optical Mouse
Logitech Z640 5.1 Speaker set
Corsair Twin-X-512-3200LL (2x256) Dual Channel DDR Kit
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb AGP video card
Microsoft Windows XP Pro OEM


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I think Zeddy got sick of this and isn't watching the thread anymore. It's too bad if that's true as I really like him and would have liked him to see the end of this.

Vivienne



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *zeddy: From page 7:
> 
> The specs as we wanted them - nothing changed.
> ...


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:Sorry.
> 
> http://www.passmark.com/download/index.htm
> ...


Thanks! I will do that tomorrow. By the way, on my computer, which is better than the kids' old computer, my 3dmark was less than 1300.


> I don't understand why the latest DirectX isn't already installed. Link:
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...22-0B25-4E5D-A584-6389D8A3DAD0&displaylang=en


Thanks for the link! I don't know what is wrong with the Direct X installed. It's the 8.1 version and unfortunately I can't find the test that I ran before. I thought it was from the ATI control panel but maybe not. :-( I will look for it tomorrow as the kids are here now. I hope I can find it to test again before I give them the computer. But it did say that Direct X was not installed properly.

Have you ever used XPPRO backup? Is it worth using?


> " Come on kids. Let's go in the candy store. NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY CANDY!!!!!!" [/B]


That does make it sound horrible! It's not quite as bad as it sounds. We see them every Friday and the weekend. And it just makes it easier to deliver it to them then and it gives me more time to make sure everything is running properly. I told the kids what I told you and what you replied and their answer was "He's *so* cool!" You are.  But you're perfectly right and I will make a special trip to get it to them as soon as it's done and I'll hurry to get it done.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:

Start Menu, Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System Information, Tools(tab at top), Windows highlights- DirectX Diagnostic Tool, Display tab. The DirectX Features in the middle should all(3) be "Enabled" to begin with. The 2 tests for DirectDraw and Direct3D are to the rigut. Download and install the Dx 9.0a that I directed you to before you do anything else. It would be best to disable Norton and Zone Alarm when installing this! A truly amazing Mark3d score using DirectX 8.1 and running stock!



> Have you ever used XPPRO backup? Is it worth using?


 Here's the MS link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gettingstarted/guide/backup.asp

We always use the backup in Norton.



> That does make it sound horrible! It's not quite as bad as it sounds. We see them every Friday and the weekend. And it just makes it easier to deliver it to them then and it gives me more time to make sure everything is running properly.


 I know. But since I don't have that exact system in front of me to *PLAY WITH* like you, I have to get some enjoyment while I can!!!!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> 
> Start Menu, Programs, Accessories, System Tools, System Information, Tools(tab at top), Windows highlights- DirectX Diagnostic Tool, Display tab.


Thank you!! Phew!



> I know. But since I don't have that exact system in front of me to *PLAY WITH* like you, I have to get some enjoyment while I can!!!! [/B]


LOL! Love ya'!

We're on our way to take the kids home so I'll have more to report on diagnostics, etc. later.

What on earth would I have done without you!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I stayed up till 2 last night.  Then I tried to email you with results and stuff and I lost internet access. I thought it was something with the new computer so I unhooked it and hooked it up to my old one and couldn't get a connection. After an hour of fiddling I called my ISP and they said something about no DHCP servers working anywhere in Ontario.

Anyway:

Passmark Performance: 413.3 and megaflops 613.2 - is that good?

3d Mark 14047 after Direct X update

I found the program that I used to test in the ATI configurations. In the Direct X one that you gave me everything was okay. In the ATI one I got the same error as before. It apparently has to do mostly with DVD and TV. I am not going to bother to fix this until they want to use them.

It says:

1.DVD and TV will not work without the appropriate version of DirectX.
2. no capture driver
3. Audio clock accuracy (+or-) 0.2% - failed. This has to do with the stability of the sound card. It synchronizes audio with video dureing DVD playback and video capture. It suggested that I update the audio driver or get a different card. 

Re: AOC monitor: XP had it set at 60Hz. I changed it to the factory setting of 85Hz. I think you said that you had yours on a 100? Should I change it to a 100Hz?

Thanks!!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Passmark Performance: 413.3 and megaflops 613.2 - is that good?





> 3d Mark 14047 after Direct X update


 Looking mighty good!!



> Re: AOC monitor: XP had it set at 60Hz. I changed it to the factory setting of 85Hz. I think you said that you had yours on a 100? Should I change it to a 100Hz?


 85 is where most people run at. You can try it to see if you like it. Usually, a good test is: turn at a right angle to your monitor. look straight ahead. With your peripheral vision(or from the corner of your eye) or by not looking DIRECTLY at the monitor, notice the WHITE background. If it is flickering, adjust your refresh rate to a higher level. This will USUALLY lessen the flickering. The flickering is un-noticed when looked at directly. But the more flickering there is, the worse the strain on the eyes. You shouldn't run above 100 in my opinion. Of course, when you change refresh rates, you will have to change icon size, etc. or get a SCREEN MAGNIFIER in order to see anything(anyway, I have to change icon, etc. size).



> 1.DVD and TV will not work without the appropriate version of DirectX.





> 2. no capture driver





> 3. Audio clock accuracy (+or-) 0.2% - failed. This has to do with the stability of the sound card. It synchronizes audio with video dureing DVD playback and video capture. It suggested that I update the audio driver or get a different card.


 This sounds like driver or setup issues. You may want to check on the nForce forum board......



> I thought it was something with the new computer so I unhooked it and hooked it up to my old one and couldn't get a connection. After an hour of fiddling I called my ISP and they said something about no DHCP servers working anywhere in Ontario.


 NO FAITH???????????????????????????


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> Looking mighty good!!





> The flickering is un-noticed when looked at directly.


Look how much I'm learning! Thank you. I don't notice any flicker so I'll leave it the way it is.


> Of course, when you change refresh rates, you will have to change icon size, etc. or get a SCREEN MAGNIFIER in order to see anything(anyway, I have to change icon, etc. size).


I like it best at 800x600. I'll put it that way for them and they can change it to how they like it. I guess games should be played on a higher resolution? Maybe I'll change it?


> This sounds like driver or setup issues. You may want to check on the nForce forum board......


Good idea!


> NO FAITH??????????????????????????? [/B]


I have faith in the system but on page 2 of this thread a very wise and learned man said "MOST of the time the errors and failures are located between the KEYBOARD and the SEAT of the desk chair!!!!



Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> I have faith in the system but on page 2 of this thread a very wise and learned man said "MOST of the time the errors and failures are located between the KEYBOARD and the SEAT of the desk chair!!!!


 I didn't go back to check page 2 of the thread but I suspect the person quoted has probably been honored or received awards for that type of wisdom!!!!! Don't worry, that's not the first time something like that has happened to someone; not going to mention any names!



> I don't notice any flicker so I'll leave it the way it is.


 That's right; as the saying goes---- " IF IT AIN"T BROKE, DON"T FIX IT!".



> I like it best at 800x600. I'll put it that way for them and they can change it to how they like it. I guess games should be played on a higher resolution? Maybe I'll change it?


 It's all up to the person playing!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I have a problem that I am not sure what to do about.

I finished doing everything (except that ATI stuff) and for fun I ran sfc /scannow. It said that the XP disk wasn't the same OS that was installed and it wouldn't do the scan.

I am thinking that I would install the XPPRO on my computer and see if it says the same thing - just to know if it's the disk or the shop. Will I have to reinstall everything if I get a new XP disk. 

Sigh.

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

HI StillLearnin'

Again I'm sure I sent a message a little while ago but I don't see it - hope this doesn't get duplicated.

I have maybe found the reason for the 'sfc' problem. After the XP program was installed, the path to the cd rom was changed and apparently this confuses the sfc program. I have read that when the cd rom path is changed back, the sfc will work. That's a pain! Do I have to change all paths then? Is it worth doing? I will phone the shop tomorrow to ask them what the original path was.

Everytime I think I'm just about done!!

Thanks!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: I thought you were going to install the Norton SystemWorks 2002. If you haven't (and aren't going to get the 2003 edition), install it, then run the one button checkup, fix and close.

Now open Systemworks, click on Norton Utilities, click on Find and Fix Problems, click on Norton WinDoctor, click the next button (bottom of window), click finish, click Repair All(upper left), click yes, close.

Open Norton Disk Doctor, click on Options, UNCHECK Start automatically with Windows, Check Enable Free Space testing, click on Appearance tab(at top ), NO checks in ANY boxes, click OK. Make sure Fix Errors box is CHECKED, put check mark in Drive(?)System ONLY(if the Slave Drive is marked, Uncheck it for now), click Diagnose, Schedule Repair? - Yes, click OK. UNCHECK Drive(?)System, put check in Drive(?)Slave, click Diagnose, Schedule repair? - Yes, click OK. Make sure Drive(?)System and Drive(?)Slave are the only boxes checked, and Restart. The utlility will run BEFORE you can do anything on the computer. This will take awhile, especially when it is the first time. After it finishes, Windows loads up and you are ready to continue with the rest of this maintenance.

After restart, start Norton backup and click on Norton Utilities, click on Optimize Performance, click on Speed Disk, ( I think a window pops up about first time, blah, blah blah) just follow the prompts. Optimize BOTH harddrives (one at a time) and shut computer COMPLETELY down. Restart and you're ready to go.

This set of utilities is great and does everything you need to keep your system in top running shape( not only MUCH better than Windows Version, but MUCH faster).

You should leave the new computer turned on 24/7 for the first 2-3 weeks as Windows(in the 2000Pro version also) will ACTUALLY speed up from the initial install somewhat.



> I ran sfc /scannow. It said that the XP disk wasn't the same OS that was installed and it wouldn't do the scan.


 Did you Start - Run - type sfc /scannow and click OK? Is SP-1 installed?( Go to System Information, it should say what Service Pack is installed after - - version).

"The System File Checker in Win2k/WinXP"

The Windows File Protection is constantly checking whether important files are missing or overwritten and restores them if so. Sometimes it can happen that a file is corrupted anyway, but then one can use the util SFC.EXE with the /SCANNOW option to do a full scan of the critical files and restore those, which has become corrupted:

SFC /SCANNOW

Note this operation cannot complete without the install CD. Therefore it is important to insert the install CD before launching the above command. If the install path have changed since the original install, then one have to change the source path so SFC can find the install files.

Note sometimes the WinXP Home will ask for the WinXP Pro CD, but this is not problem as long the above condition have been met. Though it might require that one press Retry several times before the System File Checking begins.

More Info MS KB Q222471


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: I thought you were going to install the Norton SystemWorks 2002. If you haven't (and aren't going to get the 2003 edition), install it, then run the one button checkup, fix and close.


I did install it and did run one button checkup. I will do the rest when I rehook up the new computer. I can't write to you on the new one so everytime I want to send you a message, I hook up the old one.  I tried to reregister to the Forum but I was unable to. When I press 'accept' absolutely nothing happens.



> You should leave the new computer turned on 24/7 for the first 2-3 weeks as Windows(in the 2000Pro version also) will ACTUALLY speed up from the initial install somewhat.


Thanks! That's good to know. I haven't been doing that and I'll tell the kids to do that as well.
[/QUOTE] Did you Start - Run - type sfc /scannow and click OK? [/QUOTE]
Yes and that's when I got the message that it was a different OS installed than the one I was using.


> Is SP-1 installed?( Go to System Information, it should say what Service Pack is installed after - - version).


All are installed. Windows Updater says there are no critical updates for the computer. I did not have to install any critical updates. It came installed and when I checked 'history' it said they were installed on June 5th.


> "The System File Checker in Win2k/WinXP"
> 
> If the install path have changed since the original install, then one have to change the source path so SFC can find the install files.


I guess this is the problem but I don't know what to do about it. Shall I phone the shop and ask them what the CDROM path originally was and change it? Shall I just change it to D: from E: and see if that fixes it? Will anything be screwed up because I do this? Shall I just forget about ever having to use it - if Norton does the same better?

I must say I'm learning tons but I'd rather just be reading about it. 

Thanks!!

Vivienne


----------



## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: Call the shop, as they didn't give you a Retail XP install you may have trouble with the CD.



> I did install it and did run one button checkup. I will do the rest when I rehook up the new computer.


 Instead of the ONE button this time do as I listed all the way. DO NOT STOP or SHUTDOWN the COMPUTER until you have done as I listed in the order I gave. After you have done this, I usually DON"T run Disk Doctor only every 3 weeks unless I've done alot of installs/uninstalls. However I run the:



> Now open Systemworks, click on Norton Utilities, click on Find and Fix Problems, click on Norton WinDoctor, click the next button (bottom of window), click finish, click Repair All(upper left), click yes, close.





> After restart, start Norton backup and click on Norton Utilities, click on Optimize Performance, click on Speed Disk, ( I think a window pops up about first time, blah, blah blah) just follow the prompts. Optimize BOTH harddrives (one at a time) and shut computer COMPLETELY down. Restart and you're ready to go.


 WEEKLY or if things slowdown too much, even sooner. Heavy usage of camera software along with scanning and OFFICE software will slow systems down because of all the file accessing and moving, copying, etc. NOT cleaning out of unnecessary COOKIES, TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES and HISTORY files also is the biggest problem people have that causes systems to slow down.


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne: Call the shop, as they didn't give you a Retail XP install you may have trouble with the CD.


I ordered the OEM version because it was much cheaper ($219 vs $456). They said the only difference was that it didn't come in a fancy box. So I'm not sure what to tell them when I call or what it is I want from them.

I have printed out your instructions and will do that and will give the printed instructions to the kids.

I shall do it on my own computer as well.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I'm writing from the new computer.  I think something was wrong with the Forum temporarily when it wouldn't let me in before.

Anyway, there was one case where I didn't completely follow your instructions and I should have and perhaps will do today although I am reluctant to do it. You had told me to have only data on the second drive. I was deadly afraid to erase *anything* in case I inadvertently erased something they needed. Now Norton's Windoctor has come up with errors that have to do with the slave drive! 

If I deleted *just* the Windows system file, would that be the same as having just data? I had 4 errors that had to do with 'Corel'. I have not put Corel on their new machine and one error to do with a game. 

I am finding out how little I know. I was so sure that it would be okay because the system was on a different disk - even though you warned me and warned me emphatically. Blush.

On the NqForces board, I was advised:

" If you want to be totally sure, install DirectX 9.0a then install the newest available ATI Catalyst driver (and relevant Control Panel) and lastly do the sound update. 
Remember to uninstall the old ATI stuff before installing the new"

Go ahead and do this, you think? or wait till I have a problem?

You know, I wish this were my computer ( for more reasons than one) because I know on my computer I would not be as fearful about messing something up *and* I would have had only data on my second drive. 

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

If I worry enough about things, I can figure them out eventually.
Re: The second hard drive: I am going to make a drive image and delete everything but the data. If I've deleted something in error, it won't be a calamity. 

Yay!

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne: First before I forget, here is the link to using the Program Compatibility in WindowsXP:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q301911

This could be handy for your games especially.



> I had 4 errors that had to do with 'Corel'. I have not put Corel on their new machine and one error to do with a game.


 This is the type of software I referred to as having to be FRESH Install. Productivity software(office, business, photo, audio, video, etc. apps) and gaming software have to be installed from scratch(with patches and updates) on the new system. Yes it's very time consuming( can take days), but that is the way it has to be done.



> I ordered the OEM version because it was much cheaper ($219 vs $456). They said the only difference was that it didn't come in a fancy box.


 That is somewhat true. With the OEM version, Windows support must come from the builder whereas with Retail ALL support is provided by Microsoft. Also there are some missing files on OEM that can be found on the MS website but to most people they are of no consequence. I guess I should have stated it differently. We always include a Support CD(this is made AFTER we have ALL the hardware configurations and settings where they should be) that can be used in a restore situation that will put the system in good working order(alot of times better than System Restore). Of course you always have to go back and update everything when this happens.



> If I deleted *just* the Windows system file, would that be the same as having just data?


 No. DON"T DELETE that file!!! Uninstall/remove the softwares as I described above. If you want to eventually dual boot, you will want that file.

In your case, the slave drive should be used for your System Backup Folder/File, any kind of "junk" files/folders you don't ever use but want to keep, Internet Downloads, etc. Keep your always used, high profile stuff on the System(Master) drive with any Backups, copies,etc. on the Slave.



> Go ahead and do this, you think? or wait till I have a problem?


 I think I'd wait until it is necessary.

A link to make Setup Disks(if you can't boot to CD-Rom - - been known to happen):

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q310994

A link to KEEP handy:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...net/itsolutions/howto/winxphow.asp?frame=true

Well it's taken over 2 hours to try to type this up so for now................


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

Thanks for all the links. There is so much useful information and I know will come handy - probably real soon.



> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> This is the type of software I referred to as having to be FRESH Install. Productivity software(office, business, photo, audio, video, etc. apps) and gaming software have to be installed from scratch(with patches and updates) on the new system. Yes it's very time consuming( can take days), but that is the way it has to be done.


I've installed everything from scratch. I did a search for Corel and the only thing Ifound pointed to the IE"Favorites". So I'm not sure what Norton's problem is. I now notice that Norton gives a few suggestions on how to fix these problems - I will pick one. The program says that an automatic repair is not recommended with these problems. :-( I hope I pick the right one. I will try to pick the least potentially damaging.


> That is somewhat true. With the OEM version, Windows support must come from the builder whereas with Retail ALL support is provided by Microsoft.


Now if you were my builder, guess who I'd pick!


> We always include a Support CD(this is made AFTER we have ALL the hardware configurations and settings where they should be) that can be used in a restore situation that will put the system in good working order(alot of times better than System Restore). Of course you always have to go back and update everything when this happens.


Is that a drive image? Perhaps I'll make one for them as well.


> No. DON"T DELETE that file!!!
> Uninstall/remove the softwares as I described above. If you want to eventually dual boot, you will want that file.


I've read and reread all the posts that you have written on the slave drive, and on dual boots and I've decided the following:
Leave everything the way it is for now. Give them two weeks to copy over the *documents* and only the documents that they need. Reformat the disk and have them use it for backups and junk folders.

Re: Upgrading drivers: 


> I think I'd wait until it is necessary.


Good! That's one less thing I can mess up.


> A link to make Setup Disks(if you can't boot to CD-Rom - - been known to happen):


Thanks very much for all the links! I will make a boot disk. 


> Well it's taken over 2 hours to try to type this up so for now................


Oh my gawd! I am so sorry! I cannot describe the gratitude I feel. I don't know what to say except thank you so much.

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:



> Thanks very much for all the links! I will make a boot disk.


 It requires 6 formatted floppies, I believe.



> Well it's taken over 2 hours to try to type this up so for now................


 Not your fault, I keep having to WORK(UGH!)!



> Is that a drive image? Perhaps I'll make one for them as well.


 They should provide you with a support (ERD) disc!


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'


> Originally posted by StillLearnin':
> vivienne:
> It requires 6 formatted floppies, I believe.


Jeez! I still remember using dos and *everything* was on less than six disks. LOL!


> Not your fault, I keep having to WORK(UGH!)!


I don't believe the "ugh". I have visions of you loving everything you do.  You're so busy and still take time to help me. Thanks!!!


> They should provide you with a support (ERD) disc!


You know, they don't make them like you anymore. I hope your customers know that and treasure you !

Vivienne


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## StillLearnin' (Oct 25, 2001)

vivienne:

"AH JEEEEEZZZ!"


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin



> _Originally posted by StillLearnin':_
> *vivienne:
> 
> "AH JEEEEEZZZ!" *


ROTFL!

Vivienne


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I am going to be off the TSG boards for awhile and in case I do not have occasion to "speak" to you again, I would like to thank you very much for all the help that you have given me while I was on TSG! It was *very* very much appreciated!!!

At the bottom I have put the computer that you helped me design and we are still loving it!! Your help was most appreciated!!

Thanks again for *everything*!!

Please take good care!

All my best wishes

Vivienne

AOC 9KLR Monitor
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Processor
ASUS A7n8x Deluxe Motherboard - version 2.0
Western Digital 80 gb 8mb 7200 RPM hard drive
Liteon 16x DVD drive
Liteon 52x24x52 CD-RW drive
Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive
Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG casing with 430 watt PS 
Logitech MX300 Optical Mouse
Logitech Z640 5.1 Speaker set
Corsair Twin-X-512-3200LL (2x256) Dual Channel DDR Kit
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb AGP video card
Microsoft Windows XP Pro OEM


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## vivienne (Nov 26, 2002)

Hi StillLearnin'

I posted something a little while ago re the high end gaming computer you helped me with but it has not shown up! Maybe the posts that I 'replied' to were too old!! Sorry if this is a duplicate!!!!

This is what I said:

Hi StillLearnin'

I am going to be off the TSG boards for awhile and in case I do not have occasion to "speak" to you again, I would like to thank you very much for all the help that you have given me while I was on TSG! It was *very* very much appreciated!!!

At the bottom I have put the computer that you helped me design and we are still loving it!! Your help was most appreciated!!

Thanks again, StillLearnin', for *everything*!! Please take good care!

*And*, of course, a great big thanks also to all those who have helped me since!!! Triple6 and Zeddy and Jim and Candy and so many of you too many to mention!! A heartfelt thanks!!!


All my best wishes

Vivienne

AOC 9KLR Monitor
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Processor
ASUS A7n8x Deluxe Motherboard - version 2.0
Western Digital 80 gb 8mb 7200 RPM hard drive
Liteon 16x DVD drive
Liteon 52x24x52 CD-RW drive
Panasonic 3.5" Floppy Drive
Antec Performance Plus 1080AMG casing with 430 watt PS 
Logitech MX300 Optical Mouse
Logitech Z640 5.1 Speaker set
Corsair Twin-X-512-3200LL (2x256) Dual Channel DDR Kit
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb AGP video card
Microsoft Windows XP Pro OEM


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## stod73 (Aug 13, 2003)

Ever heard of Private Messaging???


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by stod73:_
> *Ever heard of Private Messaging??? *


Ever heard of tact? 

You are welcome Vivienne, I'll try to find the thread in question and merge this with it so Stilllearnin' will be notified.

EDIT: I see you found it, I merged anyway


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## Big-K (Nov 22, 2003)

whoa you can do that?


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Big-K:_
> *whoa you can do that? *


Do what? Merge threads? If so, yes.


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## stod73 (Aug 13, 2003)

Sorry, tact has never been my style.


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