# No#1 First Thing To Do With A Computer



## tim2727 (May 8, 2003)

I HAVE A GENERAL MESSAGE FOR THOSE WHOM DON'T ALREADY KNOW THIS'.I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!! TO AVOID MOST OF THE PROBLEMS YOU SEE ON THIS SITE OR MAY HAVE ,DO THIS. 1. GO TO WWW.PCWORLD.COM. 2.SEARCH FREE FIREWALL. 3.GET IT'S FREE (TINY PERSONAL FIREWALL V4.5) IT WORKS GREAT. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AFTER DOWNLOADING. (REMEMBER ONLY CLICK DON'T ASK AGAIN FOR YOUR DIAL-UP) YOU'LL SEE WHEN YOU DOWNLOAD THIS GOOD LUCK,I HOPE I HELPED SOMEONE.


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

Good advice, Firewalls are a priority these days.

Anti-virus software would be right there with it, but I would suggest a different, #1, if I may . . .


Format and reinstall as soon as you get the computer up. Most manufacturers load you down with garbage software that is supposed to "enhance" the price, cause you get all this junk for free. Most of it is never used, and only takes up space and resources.

Also, typical installs of the Operating System are done using a download manager that imprints loads of machines with the same setup. A good many teething problems can be fixed if you clean the whole system up, right at the beginning. Too many times, folks spend more time trying to fix something that is caused by that initial manufacturers install, then it would take to format and reinstall. they do this cause they have already invested a lot of time setting things up the way they want, or installing other software, etc.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

*edit*

*sorry guys, I had a brain fart, and this post was meant to dinicate my recomendation for the kirio firewall, not the tiny.

I'll leave my original text here, as a few posts followed due to my incrrect referance.*

sorry

that's the best firewall of any of the free software firewalls.

tiny gives as much protection as any, with the added benefit of having a third the memory footprint.

really an impressive pice of code.

if anyone is still using za, definately give this one a go, though unistlling za will prove an anguish, it is wrth the effort.

even those of you using sygate.

tiny does as much, and is much much smaller.


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## bobbi (Dec 21, 2000)

I downloaded it, but noticed on the download screen it says 30 trial. But I didn't see a price. Is this really free or not?


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

tiny has a free version, which I love.(edit...sorry, Iam talking about kirio here, not tiny)

the beta by the way has a sandbox which is unbelievable, and while I never recomend betas, I'vwe been using this for months without any issue whatsoever.

find the free version on the site, and not the pro.

and if you are experienced, give the beta a shot also


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## gotrootdude (Feb 19, 2003)

First thing to do with a computer is throw it on the concrete and watch it smash. Computers are evil, evil I tell you, EVIL!


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I take it out of the box.
Plug it all together.
Plug in the power.
turn it on.
come to TSG  
live happy ever after.


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## oscar51 (Nov 13, 1999)

I 2nd, 3rd, & 4th RandyG's suggestion to format and reinstall as soon as your machine is running. I struggled with a store-installed Win98SE for almost a year before it rolled over and died by itself. ("Fatal error in Explorer.exe" followed by a BSOD is about as fatal as you can get.) So I was forced to format and reinstall and everything worked pretty good until I decided to install some Windows updates. Now Win98SE is flakey again. Oh well, what's life without a struggle of some kind?


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## Talamasca (Mar 23, 2003)

1st thing you do is cry because:

It's out dated by the time you get it home
Or 
It's put dated by the time you spend all those countless hours downloading _security_ updates from MS.


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## websurfer (Jun 24, 2002)

The best firewall is a router, but zone alarm works good for those not fortunate enough to not have cable or dsl


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## Rhettman5.1 (Sep 25, 2002)

bah humbug ! If there is one thing I can't get to work it's a %$%$$ firewall. I have tried tiny ,sygate and ZA. No matter what I do, the install goes fine and I go thrue the set-up, the programs will dial -up to register, I remove all protection so i can get a feel for the program and then...I CAN'T CONNECT TO MY ISP !!!...so I uninstall them and all is fine !...guess I'll stick with spybot and AVG ..My ISP shuts down E-Mail virus's also, so I'm not TO worried  (Iam on dial-up and have one other PC networked)

As far as new computers go, most use restore disc these days, so reformatting is not a option, you just have to go thru and delete all the garbage that comes pre-installed!... I finally got this old Compaq running fairly free, and now it's about time to upgrade  ...oh well...life goes on... ..Rhett


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _posted by websurfer_70:_
> 
> _The best firewall is a router, but zone alarm works good for those not fortunate enough to not have cable or dsl _


most people don't have a router, which is why I said the best _software_ firewall is tiny

in addition, a router can stop incoming traffic, not outgoing, and I certainly DO NOT recomend running with a router as your only firewall, but I WOULD recomend running with a software firewall, so the common saying about a router being the best firewall is incorrect if it is your only firewall.

further

no, za is not a firewall to ever suggest to someone who does not already have it installed.

za will give most people problems they don't realize, like computer slowdowns that are hard to detect immediately, and internet slowdowns that are measureable.

for instance, za uses *13mbs* of ram

tiny uses 3

THIS IS A HUGE SLOWDOWN THAT IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY MOST USERS

in addition, the internet connection is measureably slower on most peoples computer using za

of firewalls, za is one of the worst, especially the pro version, but including the free version...sorry


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## bellgamin (Apr 6, 2001)

Was it Crocodile Dundee 1 or 2 -- I forget which -- where the young punk tries to mug Dundee & his chick? When Dundee laughingly refuses to cough up any $$$, the punk says, "I've got a knife" & displays a fairly large blade.

Dundee smilingly says, "That's not a knife" & pulls out his monstrous, Bowie-type knife -- "THAT's a knife!" he said. The punk, of course, scoots.

As to Tiny firewall, Dundee sez, "That's not a firewall" & pulls out his monstrous BitGuard -- "THAT's a firewall!" he sez.

Only kidding, folks. Tiny is about as good as it gets [starring Jack Nicholson], but there's a new firewall on the block called BitGuard, that's causing quite a stir at security boards such as...

Wilder's

It costs ~$57, but it's a doozy. Or so I hear [not having $57, I have only the word of other folks. Sheesh.]

BitGuard website

moo goo gai pan.......bellgamin


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## Mermaid (Oct 29, 2001)

Hi all, Firewall and virus protection having been dealt with here, the very , very, next thing to do , is give your computer a name, then you won't look so silly if some-one over hears you yelling and swearing at a machine, you just say I was swearing at , eg, Fat Albert, Murgetroide, Ernie, Or , even, Elmo.


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## lozza (Jan 31, 2002)

*Hewee* 
18000+ posts. What else do you do with your spare time....lol

Lozza


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

First thing I normally do is either run 3dMark or some nice graphic intensive game. To check out just how good the new rig is. Of course, then I load on Zone Alarm.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

> _Originally posted by lozza:_
> *Hewee
> 18000+ posts. What else do you do with your spare time....lol
> 
> Lozza  *


I may goof off some more lozza.


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## yuckbucket (May 21, 2003)

Ok, I'll assume the moron role here. I can't for the life of me, find the free version of Tiny Personal Firewall....Can someone slap me in the right direction please?


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## buck52 (Mar 9, 2001)

Howdy

try here...http://www.pcworld.com./downloads/file_description/0,fid,8051,00.asp

buck


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

Buck, that gets its download from Tiny's site, ,and from the looks of things, Tiny have decided not to have a free version anymore. version 4.5 is $39 and has a fully functioning demo version, but only for 30 days.

I'd also be interested if someone can refute this, and provide a link for the free version.


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

A good alternative is ZoneAlarm. They still have a free version. And it's rather good too.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RandyG:_
> *
> I'd also be interested if someone can refute this, and provide a link for the free version. *


go to this thread

there's a download of the free on that thread of the kirion forum.

also, ask any questions about the app there, their support is excellant


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AtreideS:_
> *A good alternative is ZoneAlarm. They still have a free version. And it's rather good too. *


as I said in my previous post, zone alarm is one of the worst solutions...just about every other firewall, both free and pro outperform all versions of the zone alarm, in all areas.

accept ease of use, and in this, za is pretty simple

if kirio intimidates you, then go to sygate, but kirio is by far the best thing on a computer for security and keeping your computer and internet fast.

NOW, THOSE OF YOU THAT ARE GOING TO UNINSTALL ZONEA ALARM...this is a beast to get rid of, so be diligent


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by perris:_
> *go to this thread
> 
> there's a download of the free on that thread of the kirion forum.
> ...


perris, thanx for the link, but the only links found on that page were for kerio's firewall, which is not Tiny's free version.

I mention this because the phrase you quoted me on was to show me a link For Tiny's ver 4.5 FREE firewall.

I will check out kerio though.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

wow, randy, I'm embarrassed

shows how old I am, I have reverted to the time when the tiny was kirio.

hoo boy

I feel silly.

gonna take my centrex now

anyway, I referanced my mistakes on my original posts


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

Sorry perris, I only skipped through your earlier post, and missed the bit about Zone Alarm not being as good as other firewalls. In what areas do other firewalls excell over ZA? So far I haven't ever had a problem with ZA, its done the job for me. But if there is a better solution (and a free one), I'm all for it. I'd just like to know why these other firewalls are better. Thanks.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AtreideS:_
> *In what areas do other firewalls excell over ZA? So far I haven't ever had a problem with ZA, its done the job for me. Thanks. *


first, let me tell you, the free version of za is much better then the pro, which offers a bunch of bells and wi=histles that only bog the program up

so the free za is a better choice of the pro.

now, the most obvious, and easiest thing to look at when comparing za to kirio is the memory drain.

13 mbs for za, about three to four for kirio

so right there is a speed up for kirio over za, but kirio has this kind of edge over all other firewalls, even my former favorite, sygate.

now as far as your internet speed, za will present most users with slower access to the web and pages for it's protection.

go to dsl reports

here, test your internet speed with za enabled.

then test it again with za dissabled.

to do this, first allow all traffic, and then turn za off.

compare your speeds...use , multiple passes with each configuration.

for many, za will fail in this type of comparison...there should be no pressure on your connection due to a firewall

I have never seen a connection put inder extra pressure from kirio or sygate.

I always see the connection under pressure with za.

as far as the actual firewall protection, za is fine, and I've tried to test through the za, and had the same difficulty as other software firewalls, so I don't think you are sacrificing anything as far as security is concerned.

in any event, za is the easiest to use for beginners, and that's why it's use is so pervasive.

if you try another firewall, (preferably kirio or sygate), make sure you turn off the za service...I forget what that's called....true vector or something such.

in addition, there is a problem uninstalling za for some, so if you have some issues here, go to the za site, I believe they address the uninstall issue there.

ALSO, BEFORE YOU UNINSTALL ZA, ALLOW ALL TRAFFIC.

then dissable the firewall for some time, and get comfortable with your next firewall before you uninstall za.

enjoy yourself...you are going to love kirio as soon as you get it up and going, and you are going to notice immediately faster computing, due to the extra mbs your box will have to play with


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

Thankyou very much for the information. The saving of memory does sound compelling, as does the extra web speed. I will look into Kirio in the future, but for now I'm just too busy to fiddle with anything. Thankyou.


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Tried the Kerio Firewall and was not impressed with the fact that cpu usage went and stayed at 100% and in addition included in the download was a pile of spyware.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by motherboard:_
> *Tried the Kerio Firewall and was not impressed with the fact that cpu usage went and stayed at 100% and in addition included in the download was a pile of spyware. *


I have never ever seen kirio use the cycles you are talking about...never.

mine right now, with sandbox, is using six percent of my cpu as I type, and I only have a one gig processor on ths laptop

and there is not a stich of spyware on any kirio firewall I have ever seen.

never

I believe you have a virus.


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Well i'll tell you that i had just finished running spybot, adaware, complete virus scan and a defrag as my system maintenance before downloading kerio.And to add the highest i have ever seen my cpu usage was 36 % (1.1Gig)


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

QUOTE]_Originally posted by motherboard:_
*Well i'll tell you that i had just finished running spybot, adaware, complete virus scan and a defrag as my system maintenance before downloading kerio.And to add the highest i have ever seen my cpu usage was 36 % (1.1Gig) *[/QUOTE]

and I just uninstalled, deleted, re downloaded kirio, to double check this download

absolutely the most benign firewall on the market.

I think you have an issue with kirio which is unique

this is absolutely the smallest, least intrusive firewall of any firewall.

if you are serious, go to the kirio forum, and pose your issue there...they will resolve it, though I'm sure no one has seen it before


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

I'll check it out then. I tried sygate as well and didn't pass an online security test .


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

What site did you use ? please post here. tks


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by motherboard:_
> *I'll check it out then. I tried sygate as well and didn't pass an online security test . *


this is one of the most bizzarre conversations I have ever had.

every single issue you've brought up is exactly the reason to use sygate and kirio.

better security, smaller resources, more safety.

these are the footprints of kirio and sygate.

yet you seem to have had experiences that are opposite these well documented advantages of these firewalls.

please go to the kirio forum I posted on top of this page, and let the source address these issues, which I, and no one I know have ever seen.

I'll look forward to following your conversation over there


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

O.k perris will you please run a scan to probe the ports on your pc here and post back with the results. Meanwhile i'll try kerio once more.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by motherboard:_
> *O.k perris will you please run a scan to probe the ports on your pc here and post back with the results. Meanwhile i'll try kerio once more. *


 Attempting connection to your computer. . . 
Shields UP! is now attempting to contact the Hidden Internet Server within your PC. It is likely that no one has told you that your own personal computer may now be functioning as an Internet Server with neither your knowledge nor your permission. And that it may be serving up all or many of your personal files for reading, writing, modification and even deletion by anyone, anywhere, on the Internet! 
Your Internet port 139 does not appear to exist! 
One or more ports on this system are operating in FULL STEALTH MODE! Standard Internet behavior requires port connection attempts to be answered with a success or refusal response. Therefore, only an attempt to connect to a nonexistent computer results in no response of either kind. But YOUR computer has DELIBERATELY CHOSEN NOT TO RESPOND (that's very cool!) which represents advanced computer and port stealthing capabilities. A machine configured in this fashion is well hardened to Internet NetBIOS attack and intrusion. 
Unable to connect with NetBIOS to your computer.
All attempts to get any information from your computer have FAILED. (This is very uncommon for a Windows networking-based PC.) Relative to vulnerabilities from Windows networking, this computer appears to be VERY SECURE since it is NOT exposing ANY of its internal NetBIOS networking protocol over the Internet.

Port 
Service 
Status Security Implications

21 
FTP 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

23 
Telnet 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

25 
SMTP 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

79 
Finger 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

80 
HTTP 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

110 
POP3 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

113 
IDENT 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

135 
RPC 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

139 
Net
BIOS 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

143 
IMAP 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

443 
HTTPS 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

445 
MSFT
DS 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!

5000 
UPnP 
Stealth! There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that a port (or even any computer) exists at this IP address!


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

this is with the default rule set of kirio, since I just re installed the program to a new folder per your issue

as you can see, I don't exist.

in addition, I believe this site is a gibbs site.

\gibbs promotes za, and gibbs has been discredited among the security comunity.

now please, I have no issue with gibbs, I like him and his accomplishmenets, and, and I believe he has taken personal security forward for the common among us. (me included)

never the less, he is discredited among the security comunuty


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Kerio is now up and running again , this time the cpu usage is normal but I still got hitbox and a few other spybots from the download on the top of this page.

Thanks for the tip it looks like a keeper 

Peace


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Perhaps there was a problem in the download in the earlier attempt and setup wasn't correct but it seems to work fine now and just to let you know I DON"T HAVE A VIRUS.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by motherboard:_
> *Perhaps there was a problem in the download in the earlier attempt and setup wasn't correct but it seems to work fine now and just to let you know I DON"T HAVE A VIRUS. *


glad you got this up.

you are going to love kirio in it's benign nature against resources, and in the same breath, it's state of the art performance...an amazing combination

good luck


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Seems to work fine .My measured speed at bandwidth place was running at 1.2 gig and its now closer to 1.3 g so i did see a little boost. I think this dsl router is capped.


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

> _Originally posted by perris:_
> *in addition, I believe this site is a gibbs site.
> 
> \gibbs promotes za, and gibbs has been discredited among the security comunity.
> ...


Who is gibbs?

That site is Steve Gibson's site. i don't believ he is discredited in security circles, but would be interested to know where you got your information, and what circles he is discredited in, if you do mean steve gibson.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RandyG:_
> *Who is gibbs?
> what circles he is discredited in, if you do mean steve gibson. *


I am talking about steve, and I did not want to start a discussion, hoping to allude to steve gibson without bringing his reputation under scrutiny

as I said, I personally like the accomplishments of steve gibson, and I am sure he has brought common knowledge of security forward.

now, this said, here is an example of some of the comunuty that give steve discredit.

in retrospect, let me say all people of accomplishment will have nay sayers, and this page in no way represents anything but an opinion


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

http://www.gatewaysucks.com/

http://www.microsoftsucks.com/

it's easy to put up a site to speak out against something you don't like.

I've read about 15 pages from the site you posted, and I wouldn't quote them as a reliable "security circle" if i were you.

a responsible and reliable "security circle" would actually not have anything to do with something as small and petty as that site exhibits, as well as some of the other links avialable on it.

Just my humble 2 cents worth.


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## perris (Apr 21, 2002)

randy, please, I agree with your psot, and I am sorry I brought the issue of steves reputation up...my bad


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

:up:


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## AtreideS (Aug 20, 2001)

I've always been a big fan of http://www.grc.com I love his article on when a 'script kiddie' tried to take down grc with a denial of service attack. It was a brilliant read. Gibbs is also the reason I use Zone Alarm, he reccommended it, so I downloaded it. But now thanks to Perris I'm going to look at Kerio So all in all this has been a very informative thread.


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## RandyG (Jun 26, 2000)

I also have Kerio on one machine,a dn think it's good, and easy, just a little scary to look at the first time, especially when you are used to looking at an actual Control Panel like ZA has.

Anyway, they are both running at about same mem usage (6312 for Kerio and 6508 for Za), but of course vsmon at 7580 makes ZA very heavy on a system, compared to Kerio.

I'll see how things continue to work, but will more than likely move to Kerio on this machine as well.


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