# Who do I contact?



## Farmgirl22 (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm needing some assistance on planning where to move my staircase. Who do I call for this sort of project, and will that same person be able to help me purchase a pre-made staircase? Or is it better to build one from scratch? I'm having trouble visualizing where to place the new staircase ('cuz it ain't stayin' where it is now!) and our rooms aren't exactly "well laid out" or large.  After that, I'll need help figuring out what all it entails to put the new staircase in.

If anyone knows a ballpark figure for what it would cost too, that would be awesome!  We want to DIY it, but don't want to go in unprepared, KWIM?


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## leroys1000 (Aug 16, 2007)

Usually a general contractor that handles small jobs
can give you an estimate.
If you are dealing with a lack of space,you might look
into something like this...
http://www.salterspiralstair.com/


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

leroys1000 said:


> Usually a general contractor that handles small jobs
> can give you an estimate.
> If you are dealing with a lack of space,you might look
> into something like this...
> http://www.salterspiralstair.com/


Good point about the spiral staircase.:up: My mom and dad have one. Just keep in mind they're a little bit of a challenge to go up; so consider that for small children, physical disabilities, etc.

Farmgirl, it all depends on what you're wanting to do. Is this a straight up the wall staircase, or does it make a 90 degree turn?

If you're going up the wall, consider the 2x4 boards, 12 inch on center, to build the walls on each side. 2x10 or 2x12 for the steps; and possibly 2x12 board going up the stairs, with cuts to hold the steps. Then, you need the boards to make the facing under each step.

Here's a site with a calculator to estimate the lumber and such:

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/stairs.htm

Also, Home Depot on a non-busy day would be a great source.

Just some thoughts.


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## Farmgirl22 (Jun 12, 2006)

Thanks, but a spiral staircase won't work for me. It needs to be straight, and at least 4' wide. We plan to move a lot of furniture down there eventually (because the basement will become the primary family room) so don't want to have issues with moving stuff up and down like we do now. Right now our plumber has to take off his tool belt to fit down our stairs, and they are really steep. 

Hmmm...general contractors? I don't know of any here in town, but we have a few "handyman" type guys that work for the local hardware stores, I wonder if they would work. I figured that stairs must be a specialty thing, since it's hard to find useful information about this stuff online.

Are you sure that HD is really a good place to consider? I'm always nervous about actually asking them for help, because it's usually more like "you can probably do it, but we can't even tell the difference between a level and a hammer, so we aren't much help."


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## prunejuice (Apr 3, 2002)

Farmgirl22 said:


> Hmmm...general contractors? I don't know of any here in town,


If you have a local "builder's association" I would try there first.

They will likely have a list of the most accredited, qualified and reliable general contractors.


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## iltos (Jun 13, 2004)

Farmgirl22 said:


> Thanks, but a spiral staircase won't work for me. It needs to be straight, and at least 4' wide.


that's a wide staircase!! and any stair case is a space eater....too bad you can't post your floor plan: i'd be willing to help with its layout.


> Hmmm...general contractors? I don't know of any here in town, but we have a few "handyman" type guys that work for the local hardware stores, I wonder if they would work. I figured that stairs must be a specialty thing, since it's hard to find useful information about this stuff online.


stairways are not so difficult, but experience counts....any carpenter can learn to build one, but you don't want someone building their first one in your house (unless you have loads of time and he's willing to do it for next to nothing)...i'd steer clear of handymen for the job, unless they can show some impressive work.



> Are you sure that HD is really a good place to consider? I'm always nervous about actually asking them for help, because it's usually more like "you can probably do it, but we can't even tell the difference between a level and a hammer, so we aren't much help."


 not a bad choice, it that's the only one left....you just have to get past the sales schtick.....talk enough to get a real feel for who's doing it....you can judge it by the quality of the answers to your questions.....the best builders will take the time to explain things, because the want repeat biz and so will work to develop a rapport.

btw...you will need to know finish floor materials/thicknesses in both rooms to get a good stairway...i say that 'cause you mention converting the basement.


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## ckphilli (Apr 29, 2006)

Becca,

Bob's the pro...I'm just a DIYer as you know.

If it were me I'd say do it yourself if it's straight away (like Drab asked) and if you're not too interested in overly fancy.

Something else to consider is that you may create some hidden storage space if it's big enough.

I'd be careful with the finish. You're little one is going to be all over those stairs...nothing will make your heart stop like hearing a thud when your kid's running around close to stairs.

I agree that 4 feet is pretty wide...but it's your house right? 

And sorry, no idea about the price.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

I might better qualify my statements fairly quickly.



Drabdr said:


> If you're going up the wall, consider the 2x4 boards, 12 inch on center, to build the walls on each side. 2x10 or 2x12 for the steps; and possibly 2x12 board going up the stairs, with cuts to hold the steps. Then, you need the boards to make the facing under each step.
> 
> Here's a site with a calculator to estimate the lumber and such:
> 
> ...


When I suggested Home Depot, I was talking about getting a price for the materials. Especially if you were to go in with a bill of materials, or something close. They would also be good about helping you with advice, should you choose to do it on your own.

As far as someone to do the work, I'm a word of mouth kind of guy. I would start asking around work and stuff about people who has had some carpentry work done.


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## ckphilli (Apr 29, 2006)

Drabdr said:


> I might better qualify my statements fairly quickly.
> 
> When I suggested Home Depot, I was talking about getting a price for the materials. Especially if you were to go in with a bill of materials, or something close. They would also be good about helping you with advice, should you choose to do it on your own.
> 
> As far as someone to do the work, I'm a word of mouth kind of guy. I would start asking around work and stuff about people who has had some carpentry work done.


:up: Home Depot may have some business cards also Becca-


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## Farmgirl22 (Jun 12, 2006)

iltos said:


> that's a wide staircase!! and any stair case is a space eater....too bad you can't post your floor plan: i'd be willing to help with its layout.
> 
> stairways are not so difficult, but experience counts....any carpenter can learn to build one, but you don't want someone building their first one in your house (unless you have loads of time and he's willing to do it for next to nothing)...i'd steer clear of handymen for the job, unless they can show some impressive work.
> 
> btw...you will need to know finish floor materials/thicknesses in both rooms to get a good stairway...i say that 'cause you mention converting the basement.


Really? The one on my MIL's house is 5' wide with an L shape, and they said that it was still tight to get couches and appliances (i.e. deep freeze) down there.  Our current setup is just shy of two feet wide, and you can't get anything down there without major disassembly.  :down:

I actually DO have a floor plan--it's not PERFECTLY accurate, but it's within inches. I'll see if I can dig it up...I've got the printed version, but I'll have to locate the file to see if I can find the file version. Hopefully I can convert it from *.PRO to *.PDF or something. 



ckphilli said:


> Becca,
> 
> Bob's the pro...I'm just a DIYer as you know.
> 
> ...


I am definitely looking for storage there--depending on it's final location, I was thinking it might be our office desk, a place for my sewing machines, or perhaps an entertainment center. Because they are such a space hog, I figured I wanted to get the most good out of it. 

I hope to carpet the stairs for that very reason. Ours are super steep, with metal thingys on the treads, and a vinyl tile (over concrete) floor...I'm hoping to put rugs or something down in the basement, and definitely have carpet on the stairs--I know that cleaning carpeted stairs suck, but I think I can deal with the inconvenience.



Drabdr said:


> I might better qualify my statements fairly quickly.
> 
> When I suggested Home Depot, I was talking about getting a price for the materials. Especially if you were to go in with a bill of materials, or something close. They would also be good about helping you with advice, should you choose to do it on your own.
> 
> As far as someone to do the work, I'm a word of mouth kind of guy. I would start asking around work and stuff about people who has had some carpentry work done.


Ah! That makes sense. 



ckphilli said:


> :up: Home Depot may have some business cards also Becca-


I'm not sure they would be helpful, as our nearest HD/Lowe's type store is about 45 minutes away.  It's hard to get contractors from the city to come up here without a decent chunk of change for compensation--totally understandable, of course, but still a pain.


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## iltos (Jun 13, 2004)

Drabdr said:


> As far as someone to do the work, I'm a word of mouth kind of guy. I would start asking around work and stuff about people who has had some carpentry work done.


good advice :up:


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## iltos (Jun 13, 2004)

i don't know if this is too much or too little at this point, but this is a pretty good starting point wrt considerations for a stair layout.
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/article.asp?article_id=60182

there's a lot of stuff of the web about stairs...most of it is selling something...this one looks like it's "just the facts, ma'am" 

a 5' wide stairway into a basement, farmgirl!!!?
you only see something like that in mansions out here

ckphilli brings up an interesting point....they're doable with basic handtools + a skilsaw, a jigsaw, a cordless drill, and a little rotohammer (you might even get away without the skilsaw if you have a top notch jigsaw, but it'd be easier with).....there's only four critical things about stairs....the layout, hanging the stringers on something solid at the stop....making whatever adjustments are necessary at the bottom so the steps are level and the risers plumb, and accurate cuts


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

A much as I try to avoid taking out permits I am thinking this is a case where it would be wise. Iltos might have an opinion on that but I think this is more than minor surgery. 

If you don't know any builders you could always go to the building department for the city and talk to the inspector. Don't treat what they say as the gospel but it might get you some leads. Otherwise if there are hardware stores that sell lumber I would ask around there who they know that has a good reputation. 

Word of mouth is good but unless you follow it up it means nothing. Even lousy contractors can get things right once in a while.


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## iltos (Jun 13, 2004)

wacor said:


> A much as I try to avoid taking out permits I am thinking this is a case where it would be wise. Iltos might have an opinion on that but I think this is more than minor surgery.


this is good advice, too....worthy of some consideration......here's my take...
a reputable builder will assume it being done with a permit, tho we are not above doing the job without....it's all a matter of that rapport i was talking about earlier...and the trust it develops....a reputable builder doesn't need a permit to do the job to code...and nowadays, "building to code is important for resale -and those home inspectors- as well as piece of mind....then again -depending on location- sometime the permit is too.....

the other side of that coin is that you sound like you're a good ways out of town....the concerns of the "real estate market" might not matter all that much in your neck of the woods.

the other aspect about permits is that if you're not convinced about the builder -or you do it yourself- having a permit and the inspections will help to insure that it gets done to professional standards.

so....worth a thought....glad you brought it up, Bill :up:


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## ckphilli (Apr 29, 2006)

Just to add a little to Bill and Bob...

Remember my plumbing situation a while back? The following is hypothetical of course...I got several estimates...the last guy really talked to me. He gave me his first price...then I asked "what happens if I dig?"...1/2 the price...then I asked "what happens if I buy the pipe and lay it out for you?"...he said he'd go get the permit and charge me for the time it took... then he said "just do it"...the only time the inspectors show up is when they see trucks like mine...if I were to have a serious plumbing problem I would certainly call this guy-straight shooter all the way :up:

Anyway, that's a hypothetical situation...all my plumbing occurred before I purchased the house.

Point is...ask around and see how your city works. If you aren't comfortable doing the entire job yourself you may be able to save a little by pitching in some elbow grease.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

You know, the way Farmgirl describes where she lives, it may be non-annexed area. There might be something with the county. But if she does not live in a city, she might be able to do what she wants.


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## ckphilli (Apr 29, 2006)

Drabdr said:


> You know, the way Farmgirl describes where she lives, it may be non-annexed area. There might be something with the county. But if she does not live in a city, she might be able to do what she wants.


You're right...but she should also think about insurance...my Grandfather had to have some work inspected years ago for the coverage...he lived waaaaaaaaaay out.


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## iltos (Jun 13, 2004)

Farmgirl22 said:


> I actually DO have a floor plan--it's not PERFECTLY accurate, but it's within inches. I'll see if I can dig it up...I've got the printed version, but I'll have to locate the file to see if I can find the file version. Hopefully I can convert it from *.PRO to *.PDF or something.


inches is great!!! carpentry is not an exact science: adjustments in the field is a part of building almost anything, especially when you're working with existing stuff.

.pdf would work
.jpeg would too

the key thing is resolution (but i'm sure i'll have questions, regardless)....if it ends up being a big file, just email it to me...or put it up on google docs and share it with me


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## Knotbored (Jun 5, 2004)

I see some good advise here and some wild guesses. A stairway isn't like an apliance that you can just move around without major framing modifications. A substancial header is necessary at the top of the stair and that must be tied in securely to beams. Don't just cut a hole in the floor and guess at the slope down. Also the headroom is often overlooked and a tall person rushing up a stairway gets a head bumped, or a matress can't be brought down because of a tight turn.
My advise is to get a legitimate designer to sketch out the supporting structure- bait him with a trade of cordwood or cookies, then get estimates from a contractor for the structure with the understanding you will do all the grunt work and finish work.
Good luck-I also would like to see the rough floor plan and what you plan on doing.


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## itsjusme (Aug 19, 2006)

Farmgirl, if you can build a set of steps, you can build a set of stairs. The link in iltos post 12 above will give you all the info you need for building a simple set of straight stairs, they are afterall just a long set of steps. LOL I like to assemble them with porch and deck screws, and use construction adhesive between all parts, especially the risers and treads. This will eliminate squeaks and you`ll probably wish you had if you dont. Screw the risers and treads together also and this will make a very strong , squeak proof stair without the need for a center stringer.


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## LONGHAIR (Jun 11, 2002)

I fully agree with Knotbored....there are a lot of considerations that are being ignored or "glossed over" here. 
First of all _widening_ the stairway does nothing to address the fact that it is too steep .....which points to the idea that it is out-of-code now. This may be perfectly legal, if it was built before the codes were written/enforced. But generally when there is work performed on out-of-code structures, they have to be brought up to current code standards.

Widening takes some pretty serious framing and structural analisys....and definitely a permit. This not only assures that the job is done right at the time, it saves you from future issues. The government has a tendency to get bent out of shape if they would somehow find out that this was done w/o a permit. All it would take is a potential buyer having an inspection, or maybe a neighbor's child falling and getting hurt? This would come out in court.....even if you would win a lawsuit, the government folks would force you to tear it down, get a proper permit and rebuild it.

Taking the "steepness" out of the stairs takes more "run". Which is the _length_ of the space that they require. This can be done on either end, depending upon your structural conditions. It is usually easier to extend the length at the bottom, but it is not always possible. Moving the top requires much more in the way of framing and planning. Many stairways start from a doorway, which "signals" the fact that the floor is about to drop down. Moving a stairway at the top brings factors like this into consideration.

Seek professional help, even if they have to come from a bigger town.


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