# Solved: I need some electrical help if possible



## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi folks, I bought a gable vent fan at an auction last week. I want to install it in my garage. Trouble being is that the fan works on a thermostat. The garage is unheated (and will remain that way :up. The fan has three wires coming from the motor (none of the wires are color coded). All I want to do is connect it to an extension cord so I can plug it in for a constant flow whilst I'm in the garage. Is it possible to do this?

Here's the fan: *APGH* from Air Vent Inc

http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/powerVents-gableMounted.shtml

Thanks


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## hannab (Jun 8, 2005)

Hi Dave  you should post this question over in this section, they're very helpful over there

and *BE CAREFUL* 

http://forums.techguy.org/73-do-yourself-projects/


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

hannab said:


> Hi Dave  you should post this question over in this section, they're very helpful over there
> 
> and *BE CAREFUL*
> 
> http://forums.techguy.org/73-do-yourself-projects/


Hi Hanna 

Thanks, I forgot about that board.

Have a good one :up:


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Is there any identification for the wires? Are they all the same color and come from the same place?


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Hey, Katonca!

I'm with John. It seems a bit strange that there would not be any markings. Can you tell if one of the wires is ground? It would be physically connected to the frame of the motor.

I checked out the website, and they did not have much technical help. They did have a number. Might be worth it to give it a call.

Is there anything indicating what voltage it is? And, is it two speed? Thus, one wire might be neutral, and the other wires are low/high. But... that is merely speculation without more details.

What you could do is run the cord into the thermostat, and then turn the temperature all the way down. Just get an extension cord and cut off the female end (I would get one with a ground). Although... those attic fans usually run much hotter than your work area would be. So, not sure if that will work.

Now... are you sure you will be happy with that fan? Most of the attic fans don't turn very fast.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Which model did you get?

I don't see the specs indicating the amperage. That will determine the size of the extension cord required. If the amperage is too high then you may not be able to run much of anything else in the garage at the same time. Not likely to be that high of amperage but hard to say. I know mine I wired onto their own circuit. 

You are going to have to find a way to bypass the thermostat. It will only run if it is hot enough. If you could find one with no thermostat or humidistat then it might be worth returning this one. 

As to the wiring I would have expected to see a black, white and green wires.


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

JohnWill said:


> Is there any identification for the wires? Are they all the same color and come from the same place?


Hey John, there isn't any identifying colors or wording, that I can see.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

katonca said:


> Hey John, there isn't any identifying colors or wording, that I can see.


How about taking a picture??


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

Are those wires connected to something already?

If they are connected and the whole thing is intact and ready to go, and the thermostat is the only problem, simply short the 2 wires that go to the thermostat and it will run. Even put a switch there, if you want.


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Drabdr said:


> Hey, Katonca!
> 
> I'm with John. It seems a bit strange that there would not be any markings. Can you tell if one of the wires is ground? It would be physically connected to the frame of the motor.
> 
> ...


Hi Drabdr, you've given me much to think about. I appreciate the effort. :up:

All the wires appear to be the same color throughout the coating from the motor housing to the soldered ends. As far as one wire connecting to the frame, this is something I'll check out. I didn't see a voltage label either. I'll check the web site.

My main objective is to remove the humidity from the garage. On warm days and the ground is cold I get moisture in the garage that you wouldn't believe.


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

wacor said:


> Which model did you get?
> 
> I don't see the specs indicating the amperage. That will determine the size of the extension cord required. If the amperage is too high then you may not be able to run much of anything else in the garage at the same time. Not likely to be that high of amperage but hard to say. I know mine I wired onto their own circuit.
> 
> ...


Hey bud,

The model is APGH. I don't know the amps either. Something else to check I guess.

This was one of my "precious" auction finds ...no returns


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

wacor said:


> How about taking a picture??


Pics coming tomorrow :up:

Will also try to answer some of the questions you all have asked.


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Elvandil said:


> Are those wires connected to something already?
> 
> If they are connected and the whole thing is intact and ready to go, and the thermostat is the only problem, simply short the 2 wires that go to the thermostat and it will run. Even put a switch there, if you want.


Hi Elvandil, the unit isn't connected to anything right now. Just setting on the floor of my porch.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Elvandil said:


> Are those wires connected to something already?
> 
> If they are connected and the whole thing is intact and ready to go, and the thermostat is the only problem, simply short the 2 wires that go to the thermostat and it will run. Even put a switch there, if you want.


Which wires are you thinking of shorting? The way I'm picturing shorting two wires, I see a fire extinguisher in the future!

Off-topic: Have you heard Gallagher about a short? "Why do they call it a short, when it takes so long to find"? 

I think what Katonca is wanting to do is remove the thermostat (for continuous use). So when you remove the thermostat, there are three wires coming off the motor.

Katonca, you may want to take some resistance readings. The resistance between the neutral and the power wire will be close to zero. That will help out too!!


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

katonca said:


> Pics coming tomorrow :up:
> 
> Will also try to answer some of the questions you all have asked.


In the paper work that came with it I would hope there is a wiring schematic.

Make a copy and post that also


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## Elvandil (Aug 1, 2003)

katonca said:


> Hi Elvandil, the unit isn't connected to anything right now. Just setting on the floor of my porch.


Well, if the unit is all together and ready to go, then all you need to do is connect the power and short the thermostat wires. How is it supposed to be connected to the power source?


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Drabdr said:


> Which wires are you thinking of shorting? The way I'm picturing shorting two wires, I see a fire extinguisher in the future!
> 
> Off-topic: Have you heard Gallagher about a short? "Why do they call it a short, when it takes so long to find"?
> 
> ...


That's correct, I want to bypass the thermostat. I took some pic - below

The fan is 115V..... 2.8 A

This was bought "as is" from an auction. No paperwork. Hoping that it was a plug-in and go, guess not. I looked over the wiring again for color - none found. The ends are soldered.

http://www.disabilityhelpsite.com/images/fan004.jpg

http://www.disabilityhelpsite.com/images/fan008.jpg


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Elvandil said:


> Well, if the unit is all together and ready to go, then all you need to do is connect the power and short the thermostat wires. How is it supposed to be connected to the power source?


I'm not sure how to connect to the power source. W/O color coded wiring or a schematic, I'm loss. Not sure which wire is hot, neutral, or thermostat. I'm sure all are suppose to go to the thermostat but that still doesn't help.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

The 2 rounded wires hook them up to a wall outlet should take right off


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

In the 2nd pic are those two yellow images on the top left wires?

If that was something just laying on the table then I think what happened is whoever you got this from kept the thermostat. Because looking thru the installation tips on the web site it appears the thermostat is factory connected.

I would call up the factory or there is a place to email them. 

I think Brett is right that you can connect to the two small wires. I think the third is the ground. If it only pulls less than 3 amps you should be able to put a female plug on the end and be good to go. Make sure you get one with the ground and your extension cord and the electrical outlet have the ground also


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

wacor said:


> In the 2nd pic are those two yellow images on the top left wires?
> 
> If that was something just laying on the table then I think what happened is whoever you got this from kept the thermostat. Because looking thru the installation tips on the web site it appears the thermostat is factory connected.
> 
> ...


I think you have the best idea of all i found the link
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/contact-home.shtml


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

http://www.airvent.com/professional/resources/installation.shtml


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

here is the official guide for the model
not much help with the electrical part however

http://www.airvent.com/pdf/installation/PowerCoolPlus-install.pdf


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

brett888 said:


> here is the official guide for the model
> not much help with the electrical part however
> 
> http://www.airvent.com/pdf/installation/PowerCoolPlus-install.pdf


Wrong model. That is a roof vent and not a gable. But it probably is similar. If you go to #6 it shows the external thermostat and #7 the wiring for it.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I just got a wild idea
I wonder if the wires are merely covered with paint.
I would do a scrape and see if there is some color underneath


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

If you have a digital ohmeter, take resistance readings between the three wires. That might give us a start.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Drabdr said:


> If you have a digital ohmeter, take resistance readings between the three wires. That might give us a start.


Good point if he has one.

Only the ground wire would show continuity if you checked between each wire and to the steel body of the motor.


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Thanks for all the tips. I believe I'll clean the wires first. The yellow "wires" in the second pic are shoe laces.

When you say connect the 2 small round wires, an ohm reading has to be taken to determine which one is positive?

I'm a little confused about connecting the wires to a female plug. Wouldn't it be connected to a male plug and then to the extension cord?

I know the answer I'll get if I contact these folks - "it must be professionally installed". I mean it can't be rocket science. Like putting a new plug on a lamp the way I see it.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

With ac current it isnt a positive or negative.
What you would be doing with the ohm meter is checking the resistance.
You should have just a few ohms with the two rounded wires.
Then you could check between each one of the to the case and make sure that it was open


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

I think the wires got painted during a manufacturing process.
The flat wire has me a little confused...as it may not be a simple ground..but possibly play a roll with the thermostat humidity level thing.
More than likely you should be able to take the 2 round wires and stick then in the end of an extension cord and then plug the cord into the wall...in and out as fast as you can.if it starts to turn you should be ok.
I doubt you have a 2 speed motor..a third wire comes into play with these.
You can call thier number and ask about a straight hookup bypassing the thermostat.
ask if it is a 2 speed motor...they will more than like say no...then ask if the flat wire is a simple ground or has special function


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Sorry for my confusion. Yes it should be a male connection on the end of the wires on the fan


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

One of the pictures I saw that I believe Katonca took showed the fan as 2000 rpm. That leads me to believe that the motor is single speed.

That third wire may be a thermal overload. This is merely speculation, though.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

Drabdr said:


> One of the pictures I saw that I believe Katonca took showed the fan as 2000 rpm. That leads me to believe that the motor is single speed.
> 
> That third wire may be a thermal overload. This is merely speculation, though.


you don't need a third wire for an overload. You do need a ground. I am pretty sure that is a ground wire


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

The fan says 1000rpm on the motor case. 

I think I'll talk with them concerning bypassing the thermostat. I have the feeling they won't be cooperative.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

did you see if that is paint on the wires?
I find it kinda odd they arent shiney and are the same color as the motor


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

wacor said:


> you don't need a third wire for an overload. You do need a ground. I am pretty sure that is a ground wire


If this is true, would it be safe to say - flat wire to ground and a pick a post for the other two (on the ext cord) and give it a whirl?


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

katonca said:


> If this is true, would it be safe to say - flat wire to ground and a pick a post for the other two (on the ext cord) and give it a whirl?


The thermal cutoff is on the inside.. so the third wire isnt an overload.
I would try putting the 2 round wires in the cord
see if it works
then if it does...pull a strand off to the side of the flat wire and touch it to the case plug it back in.
It is more than likely a ground wire...no one can swear to it because they arent color coded


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

katonca said:


> The fan says 1000rpm on the motor case.
> 
> I think I'll talk with them concerning bypassing the thermostat. I have the feeling they won't be cooperative.





katonca said:


> If this is true, would it be safe to say - flat wire to ground and a pick a post for the other two (on the ext cord) and give it a whirl?


Did you look at the links Brett gave? If not take a look at number 6 and 7 and see if there is a rectangular box that came with the unit.

I am pretty sure that is hard wired at the factory and somebody took it. Which is fine as you want to run it manually.

Call the factory and tell them you need to know if the thermostat comes already hard wired. If so then tell them you want to connect this manually anyways and just need to know if those wires are as we think with the flat one being a ground.

Not all places are jerks. I would expect you will get answers.


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

do you have a multi-meter? If you do, then simply strip a small amount of insulation off the end of each of the 3 wires going to the fan. I think that since the fan came with a temp/humidity control unit.(now missing) that you will find that as you check each wire to the frame of the fan motor ( a non-painted surface) you will find that one of the wires will have no resistance on the meter (this will be a case ground), and the the other 2 wires will show no connection, when checked to the motor frame.

these will be your hot and neutral wires for the power connection. Best of luck !!


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

paisanol69 said:


> do you have a multi-meter? If you do, then simply strip a small amount of insulation off the end of each of the 3 wires going to the fan. I think that since the fan came with a temp/humidity control unit.(now missing) that you will find that as you check each wire to the frame of the fan motor ( a non-painted surface) you will find that one of the wires will have no resistance on the meter (this will be a case ground), and the the other 2 wires will show no connection, when checked to the motor frame.
> 
> these will be your hot and neutral wires for the power connection. Best of luck !!


Hi there! Good response.

I kind of threw the overload thing out there, but I agree with everyone else that it is probably not the third wire. As you say, a meter can help out here. I would surmise one of the wires is equipment ground (0 ohms on meter), and the other two should not read to the equipment chassis. The other two should read _near_ 0 ohms between them.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I'll bet money the middle one is ground, and based on other similar cords, I think the smooth one on the outside is the hot wire, the ribbed one is the neutral return.


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## paisanol69 (Sep 7, 2005)

JohnWill said:


> I'll bet money the middle one is ground, and based on other similar cords, I think the smooth one on the outside is the hot wire, the ribbed one is the neutral return.


with your bet, JW, and I was going to say something along those lines, in my first response, I just thought it would be best for to OP to use a meter for safety


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Isn't that what fuses are for?


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm going to contact a friend and use his meter and see what I can find. :up:


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## drivecrasher (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm wondering if this fan motor is meant to operate on 110 or 220. the gable fans that I installed only had 2 wires an d the thermostat interupted the hot(Black) lead. if this is designed for 220 that would explain the third wire.


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## wacor (Feb 22, 2005)

drivecrasher said:


> I'm wondering if this fan motor is meant to operate on 110 or 220. the gable fans that I installed only had 2 wires an d the thermostat interupted the hot(Black) lead. if this is designed for 220 that would explain the third wire.


220 single phase still is only 2 wires

3 phase would be 3 wires

Both with an additional wire for a ground.

It would be not the norm to be 220 volt for a fan this size. IMO


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

I've had gable fans in all four of the houses I've owned, all were 110V devices. I suspect a 220 fan would be a much larger fan as a rule.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

I pretty much think it's 110V (111volt, whatever you have..... Sorry, gotta work movies quotes in when I can...).

I do hope a meter is possible here, as it should tell what's going on. I do believe one of the wires is an equipment ground, and the other 2 to the motor. The one to ground will be 0 ohms, and the two motor wires slightly bigger than 0 ohms.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Did you call them or send them an email and ask the question about the wiring? http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/contact-home.shtml


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## katonca (Aug 10, 2004)

Got some "advice" from an electrician who was in a hurry. After plugging in the fan per his instructions, I started smelling something like carp frying in old oil. Thought to myself "why is the neighbor frying that, should be smoking it". Hmmm, wasn't the neighbor. The fan was giving off the smell. The copper wire was now a gray color. Unplugged the fan and said, that's about enough of this crap. Smartly I plugged it in outside and into a plug that can trip (at least that's what I was told). 

Thanks for the advice. I tossed the carp cooker.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Oops! :d


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