# IE SUCKS! a



## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

I have decided though extensive testing that IE sucks.

Out of all the many browsers that i have tried i have found what is in my opinion the holy grail of browsers...

Meet Mozilla Firebird

Firebird is an amazing browser for a couple of reasons....

first off ... expandability.

Its extensions interface allow it to be what ever you want it to be.

I for example use the mouse gestures extension, along with a couple of tool bar extensions. Installing an extension is incredibly simple... all that is required is clicking on a link and saying yes to a dialog box.

Its built in pop up blocker is more useful than anyone could imagine, and it also works incredibly well.

It is full themeable, and there are lots of themes out there.

For all those of you with IE look at this page .... Newt Edge To you who use IE it looks like crap... now try a gecko based browser such as firebird. and it is a prime example of good web coding.

Firebird fully supports all image formats like PNG (With alpha unlike IE)

CSS are also well supported.

gecko is a fast rendering engine, and you will notice that pages load faster than IE and more often then not you will notice they look better and you will be more productive..

I urge you all here to try Firebird because i think you will be pleasantly suprised.

For the windows installer go here

it is also avaliable for most other platforms, though for mac i reccoment camino... found and www.mozilla.org


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2003)

sorry i dont agree ie is good i know its hard to say but microsoft do make the best software!
so there!


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

My question in reply then is did you actually try firebird? 

if not then you dont know what your missing.

dont teach the karma sutra, unless you've had sex yourself

That, and how many third party utilities do you have to use to make IE what you want?


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Can I ask what system you are using and as well does it load your pages any faster than IE ?


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## Wet Chicken (Sep 11, 2000)

> _Originally posted by Whiteskin:_
> *dont teach the karma sutra, unless you've had sex yourself
> *


So _that's_ my problem


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

> dont teach the karma sutra, unless you've had sex yourself


Uuuhhh I think it's *Kama* Sutra


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## 700mb80min (Jul 24, 2003)

Pretty much tried em all , and MY I.E.2 came out on top for me. And yes i have tried firebird , and the only fast thing about it is the name. Mozilla has more patches , updates , fixes and bugs than all the i.e. based browser`s put together.


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

Thanks 700mb80min, thats what I figired. i haven't had a better browser on xp yet although some others do work better on 98 than IE.


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## raybro (Apr 27, 2003)

Haven't tried Firebird, but I can say that MyIE2 works better than IE or any other alternate browser I have tried (Opera, Mozilla)


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Well i'm using firebird on xp. and i dont personally like the mozilla suite. but that is the thing about firebird.... its only a browser, not a newsgrouper nor, mail reader, nor chatter. simply browser.

and yes i find it faster than ie, and there are many pages that i visit often, that also look better in firebird.

However one thing thit i find firebird is the best at is doscovering when a site has been using sloppy coding. A well coded site looks great in firebird, but when the coder is lazy using shortcuts in IE's rendering engine you can tell.

Firebird as much as i know has never needed a patch for me. and i have been using 0.6.2 for months. The only patches there are are in the nightly builds that the foundation releases and the average user will not have to bother with.

All in all i have my opinion although i have to say that my ie 2 definatly slipped under my radar, and perhaps if firebird ever breaks ireparibly i may try it.

Though i'd love to see any other browser excluding the gecko based ones and opera render these pages properly


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2003)

hey white skin your fire bird is **** i dont think you know what your talking about! who do you think you are anyway? suckkle
hahahahahahahaha


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2003)

report / quote / edit (#3) 

My question in reply then is did you actually try firebird? 

if not then you dont know what your missing.

dont teach the karma sutra, unless you've had sex yourself
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
That, and how many third party utilities do you have to use to make IE what you want??????????????


what a load of bull ****


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2003)

keep your stupid ideas to your self man this is a questions ansaws forum not a i have decided @##$#$ forum!!


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by adambailey:_
> *keep your stupid ideas to your self man this is a questions ansaws forum not a i have decided @##$#$ forum!! *


*breathe deep* ... repeat after me ...it's only a browser, it's only a browser, it's only a browser


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

adam, you strike me as an incredibly angry man. 

but honestly, how often have you had little nitpickey problems in ie, that you cant seem to solve without buying a 7.99 utility from blockpopusthatwemake.net?


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

Although it is still being built, Firebird is showing that is will be a great browser. Being that it is stand-alone and does not come with extra programs made me uninstall netscape and use Firebird as my defalt browser.

I have also downloaded the in-the-works standalone mail client dubbed "Thunderbird". Although it has its bugs (what new program doesnt?) I see this program going far. 

A note to Adam: There is no reason for you to attack someone becouse of their choice in browsers. It is just a prefance, just like a prefance for a type of car or brand of electronics. Everyone says that the one they use is the best. Are they wrong for saying that? No. Are you wrong for disagreeing? No. Everyone is entitled to their own opinon


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2003)

ok its only a browser i know i'm not crazy! but i say one last TIME!!! INTERNET EXPLORER IS THE CHAMP!


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Well opinion is opinion. I wasent inviting any one to agree with me. simply griping and praising as i saw fit. 

I think IE is fine if yo are a simplistic boorwser and have a comfort zone of site, howerver if you are like me constanly visiting new sites then ie just wont do.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2003)

hey white skin its just a browser


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2003)

relax take a beer go to the tavern or some thing


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2003)

lets have a drink and take it easy


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2003)

lets face it no browser is perfect i dont think any of them will be for a veeeeeeery long time


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

Very good point. Let us leave it at that


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## starman2002 (Jul 11, 2003)

I agree 1trueshadow it will be a great browser,it already is a very capable one.Its what I use alot of the time.I tried Thunderbird and I found the email client that comes with Mozilla to be better at this stage.But I'm sure as time marches on it will get better.


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## suesman (Sep 6, 2003)

I've tried them all in the past & I always end up back with IE. Go figure. Guess I'm just a glutton for punishment.  

We all know we are Netscape Geeks in cognito. LOL


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

WEll, IE finally became too much for my sister, and she is now a convert. Tabs for her are the absolute bes, especially for her long winded research papers. 

I'm sure there will always be to IE addicts, just as there are mac addicts, and even amiga addicts. 

lets just all live together in peace.


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

I have only one complaint about Firebird, and that is installation of plug ins. I have installed the Sun Java control over and over again, it just never takes. I end up having to use IE so I can chat in the TSG Room


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Hmmm.... It worked for me... i wonder whats up with that. You should submit to bugzilla. Thats the only way that this fine piece of software is gnaa get better, or at least get to 1.0


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## SweetChick (Sep 13, 2003)

I installed Firebird about a month ago, used it for about an hr. kind of liked it, then left the computer for an hr. or so and when I came back I had a dead computer, I turned it off and when it came back on it gave an error that said something like "a critical windows file could not be found and that I should try to repair by using the XP install disk" that didn't work so I ended up reformatting and doing a fresh install of XP!!! It needed it anyway as it had been slowing down quite a bit.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Hmm, i wonder what in gods name coulda caused that. One of the only small downsides to firebird, is that it can take up a lot of memory. it depends on the theme,extensions and a couple of other factors but it can use upwards of 18 to 25 megs. for an older machine, its not fun.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi Whiteskin 

I use both IE6 and Firebird.
I'm using 98se and a dial up connection. I'm behind a firewall. Norton.
I use IE6 most of the time and like it. 

For me IE loads quicker, refreshes faster and uses less resources.
Firebird is OK, but some advertising does get thru it.

My scroll on the mouse doesn't work right in Firebird. The mouse is a Logitech. There's probably a patch, I havn't bothered to look.

Some people like a tabbed browser, I'm used to IE.

The page you gave for a demo is the only one I've come across with a major difference in appearence. I guess most of what I click on is made for IE?

I'm following Firebird, but I don't think it's ready for prime time yet. At least, not for me. It is a lot better than the first Mozilla I tried.

Jack


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

I agree that perhaps it could ue less resources, but i sacrafice that for my pop up protection (sans 3p util). 

I loe m browser, and i'm gonna leave it to that.


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## Ultimate ? (Sep 25, 2003)

yeah, I'm a convert too ! in less than a day. Only issues I have is that the pop up window from streamaudio won't work..I end up using IE just for that . I also wish I could right click my reget downloads from the mouse.
Other than that , it's great..lets see on it's stability I just loaded it in just hours ago.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Its a great browse with lots of things that miss whenever i go back to ie. The worst thing that i miss is the all in one gestures plugin. http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions.html#All-in-One Gestures


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

pardon me, i meant extension. Plugins are for IE


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## sailinginbvi (May 18, 2003)

I agree, firebird flies - provided you want only a browserl


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## 700mb80min (Jul 24, 2003)

Now trying an all time favorite , with a built in pop-up blocker , lots of tools , and a tabbed browser...........Crazy Browser


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Sorry to sound anal, and perfectionistic but...

UGLY!!

sorry, i like having a browse work well AND look nice.


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

for peoples information firebirds popup blocker can let choosen popups through just click the blue thing in the cornerwhen a popup is locked. the plugins installation bug has workarounds and will be fixed and MSIE is s**t. the only people who think its good are broadband users who cant tell the differnece between speed and those who think its good because its by microsoft and finally those who dont kno microsofts secrets. they kno all your activitys if u use IE.

hmm i wonder if adam worked for MS maybe thats why he was so against microsoft IE being bad


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Wouldnt that be hailarious!


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## paublo (Aug 30, 2003)

whats a Browser and whats the difference?

I'm new to computers and just bought one 6 mos. ago i have IE 6.0 and dont use it much. When i search for stuff I use Copernic (is that a browser or search engine?? )

I'm not sure and your arguments don't say much on what you need a browser to do??

I would like to here some comments on what Newbies should look for out there in Cyber Land and on their (factory installed) computers

THX


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Copenic i belive is a search aplication.

A browser is the program that renders documents in html format, which is what the internet is built upon, a series of HTML documents linked by hyperlinks. There are better and worse browsers, but it depends on user prefrence.

The Worst thing for newbies (espically those on IE) are these little boxes that pop up "do you want to run..." or "do you want to install..." because most newbs decide to say yes, then wonder why thier computer slows right down ,

which btw, Paublo means your computer is riddled with spyware, malware etc.


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

spy ware malware the very thing that boils blood after the first ad aware or spybot scan made by a newbi


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## paublo (Aug 30, 2003)

Thx for the info. I do use spybot and ada-ware on a regular basis one of the many things this newbie learned about from the good people of this site 

Thx again


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Your Welome, Its always satisfing to see someone learn somthing (Like the fact that there is browser superioity! J/k  )


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## spikefan (Aug 17, 2003)

read all the above, opera 7.2 far surpasses both mozilla and firebird. IE is long gone so far as I am concerned - blasted popups. I only use mozilla for banking now as opera although loads site and give access I have a problem with side menus which I have not sorted yet. Explorer is a slow site and it is amazing how impatient we are getting in wanting more speed - yea speed it great!


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

I personally dislike the way that opera loads things, that and for my purposes i'd perfer a FREE extensible application, over a PAY aplication which is not extensible. (i dont know about opera 7, as i haven used it since about 6.5)

Besides, with the exeption of the rendering engine, almost all of the features of Opera are availible as extensions in FireBird.


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

Opera.... Unless you guys are talking about an anoying talk show host I got no clue what you are talking about

Whiteskin, you would not happen to know in what file/Folder shortcuts are kept in Mozilla/Netscape/Firebird, would you? I want to transfer my old shortcuts (20+) from netscape to firebird.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

I belive that they are under (in XP at least ) $APPLICATION DATA (most xp systems have that under c:/documents and setting\ user name\application data.

bpokbarks are under firebird.

Never tried it though.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

BTW, i'd like to thank who ever moved this thread. Almost right after i saw the reveiw forum.


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

Thanks!!

Worked like a charm. Once I found Netscapes Bookmark file (under Mozilla) named Bookmark.html I opened up firebird and in the Manage bookmarks dialog went to file>Import and selected the file that I found. Much easyer then typeing in over 20 different web addresses!


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

You are very welcome.

Now i know how to do it myself next time!


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## mobo (Feb 23, 2003)

I'm liking this Firebird for w2k a lot gang. fast , no popups,Tabs and skinnable. Does it for me. Happy camper


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

that reminds me, I dont know if they fixed it in a nightly build, but using Firebird 0.7 I lose my navigator arrows whenever i attempt to use a differnt skin.

I havent checked bugzilla, but I am guessing this is a known problem and it will be fixed in Firebird 0.8

This is one of the downsides to using software under construction. Sometimes the features work, sometimes they dont.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Yeah, but also it makes you feel good when you have found a bug and find out that you were the first to discover it. 

Its nice to feel part of the development community.


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

yep i use firebird as a defauld browser and its the fastest there is for a 56ker with a spyware free system 
we should all start a fire bird thread lol


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Good!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2003)

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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)




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## hammerbill (Feb 26, 2003)

I am downloading firebird now. I'll try it out. I agree that IE sucks, but not necessarily for the same reasons.
As far as a functional browser, IE is fairly good. But much of that "good" rating lies in the fact that "internet extorter" has had an enormous amount of advantage (many feel it has been an unfair advantage) in its implementation.
It is a fact that IE readily accepts popups, a fact that many sites, ISP's and programs make it MANDITORY that you have it installed on your computer to use them and a fact that there is no option to not install it in most versions of windows (and it is very hard to completely and safely uninstall). This all reaks of monopoly and sneaky marketing practices.
Consumers have a duty to keep snowballing products from taking away the ability of the public to make reasonable choices in the marketplace. This does not mean that some lame browser can be kept around for use use by 47 people worldwide so microsoft can technically qualify to not have a monopoly. Consumers need to realize that it is not in their long term best interest to have one company dominate any marketplace any more than it is in their best interest to have only one political party.
Those of you who think IE is great, just imagine how great any other browser would be if it had billions of dollars sunk into it.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Thats Exactly the problem. That and with all the holes, and the stupidest thing on the planet... activeX controls, we now have a browser that acts like a frickin window right into your pc. 

Just by surfing on your brand new computer, using ie, after you get off, you'lll suddenly find all sorts of mystery folders all over the place. caused by your friend Active X


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## hammerbill (Feb 26, 2003)

Well, no problems so far. I needed another browser because lately for some reason, internet extorter kept stopping halfway through the process when I was trying to open my webmail page. I hadn't been able to get to my webmail for days and was sick of trying to debug a browser-better things to do. It definitely is faster than IE. My webmail is a rather slow site and the slightly faster access to it is welcome. I have a program called IEradicator that I use to get rid of IE on some of my computers but unfortunately I can't use it on this one yet because my internet software demands that I have IE installed. In addition, I've had some websites (like banking) refuse access unless using it. Imagine that-they will insist on an unsecure browser and disallow a secure one. I'd like to get rid of it completely-"this page cannot be displayed" errors and all. I'll test it for a while longer first and if it continues to hold up, I'll dump the proprietary ISP.
What is most important to me in a browser other than reliability is that I am able to easily use full screen mode and that the design is so that I get the least frames and the most actual picture. IE was very good with that-you could get rid of absolutely all frames without taking a college course to learn how. I hate frames and if I must have some then they should autohide. I'll see what this'll do. The worst browser I think is that msn thing. Think it's called dashboard now.
The most important thing in promoting a browser is going to be its simplicity to learn and operate. Most people have the intelligence to do it but don't have the time to waste. There are too many new things to learn these days-who needs more. 
Microsoft has the momentum here simply by force of habit and for this reason alone has been able to convince the public that frequent computer problems are perfectly normal and OK and should be overlooked. Their solution to every problem appears to be to bloat the product and render the simpler version obsolete. The public takes it hook line and sinker. There are people in these forums that would pull up to classic '57 Chevy with their environmentalist-approved safetymobile, shake their fist at the driver and tell them to get a new car. Thank goodness someone supports what Microsoft stopped supporting.


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

I'd most definatly recommend installing some extenisons. Some are impossible to live without once you have them... like mouse gestures.


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## abbyk (Sep 14, 2003)

Wow hammerbill

Your posts r so refreshing

I can only generally agree with most of whats been said, I prefer alternatives, Mozilla at the mo, but go back to IE because it WORKS more than others ( even tho the reasons why may be corrupt - M$ world domination? )

Quote by darkviper 


> "they kno all your activitys if u use IE"


Surely not.
Like Marketing corps if u leave tracking cookies on ?

abbyk


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

IE works more? I dunno i find that mozilla works more, because it actually has standards to follow. Perhaps your problem is you surf sites that have html coders who use all kinds of non standard ie only ****. 

Besides, i find that my productivity shoots through the roof when i'm using my firebird, because it hase everything that i need.


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## spikefan (Aug 17, 2003)

I seem to have really opened a can of worms... All I said was I thought Opera was brilliant...


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

surely not? microsoft windows traks all activity you do online. if only you knew where to look for the information if only you knew the truth. the files are about as secret as majestic 12 but on a computer


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Sure cookies can track you, but hell, most people (in thier right mind) clean out thier cookies often. This means people are only tracking you for however long.


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## 1trueshadow (Jun 1, 2003)

<<This thread just keeps going and going and.....  >>

I have been suggesting Firebird to my friends. They don't want to switch because IE is all they ever known. I find that sad. IE does have some good points (very few, but they are there ) but the way it is used and marketed makes people think there is nothing else out there.

In one discussion my Friends and I had, it was brought up that if Mozilla, Netscape and Opera where bundled with Windows along with IE, the general public would still use IE because it is familiar to them.


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## abbyk (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by darkviper:_
> *surely not? microsoft windows traks all activity you do online. if only you knew where to look for the information if only you knew the truth. the files are about as secret as majestic 12 but on a computer *


I take it that is just rumour & paranoia.

Wheres your proof, any evidence to back that statement up ?

abbyk


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 1trueshadow:_
> *<<This thread just keeps going and going and.....  >>
> 
> I have been suggesting Firebird to my friends. They don't want to switch because IE is all they ever known. I find that sad. IE does have some good points (very few, but they are there ) but the way it is used and marketed makes people think there is nothing else out there.
> ...


which is too true. However people ouside of the mozilla foundation need to help raise the awareness that there are other things out there. For many people opera is good, and i doubt that once poeple have customized thier mozilla derivative browser that they would want to go back to their slow and popup infected IE.

It comes right down to us. the users to help make people see that ie isnt the only game in town.

I know that i have gotten alot of my friends to try it.


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

proof u want proof. its amazing how long some info stays on your computer.
the folders are stealthed deep in windows. the folders are locked at startup and recreat themselves if you somehow manage to delete them. you think im making all this up! you think im lying well so be it but i kno the truth and you should to. i aint paranoid btw.
i would give u a url but it has the f word in it and i aint allowed to post that. anywa its http://www.****microsoft.com/content/ms-hidden-files.shtml 
admins and moderators please feel free to delete this if u find it offensive to stay


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## darkviper (Jul 12, 2003)

wow i didnt kno the f work will be blanked out put the letters in for the url to work


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## Whiteskin (Nov 16, 2002)

Again, a lot of that link points to two of MS's most buggy products. Outlook, and IE


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