# New Critical Updates Available For Windows 98



## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

If you haven't run a scan with Windows updates for awhile, do so. Two new critical updates are available - 888113 and 891711.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks Frank! 
I will have to do that today.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

downloaded them tuesday ,now i notice update 891711 is showing up on the start up menu.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

GolferBob:

You're right. I noticed that too. I went ahead and unchecked it.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

I have noticed that too.

I have Kb891711 running in the background and it's checked in msconfig.

Is it OK to uncheck that?


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i haven't unchecked mine yet. i was to dumb to read what the updates were for. i will do some checking to find more info out.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

I was apprehensive as well since it's security related. 

I'm gonna keep it checked for now.


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## axis77 (Aug 31, 2004)

im assuming that it is needed in win98, I kind of freeked out to, when I seen it in start up, so I deleted it, what Im bugged about is its not on the website stating a potential threat. I guess cause its win98. I'll just reinstall it because it was a security threat so maybe being that its running as a service it should probably be scanning at the same time.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Yeah it worried me too when I first saw it.

It actually has it's own folder in Windows\System.

I've just left it alone in case it's something that Win98 needs.


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## Tunial (Oct 21, 2004)

I noticed Kb891711 running in my Task List too. Looks very odd to find something like that there. And I think it's using more than a minimal amount of resources. Does anyone know a real live Microsoft person to ask whether this is normal behavior for that Windows98SE critical fix released just a few days ago? I'll also leave it checked but it would have been helpful if Microsoft had mentioned this end result in the
KB891711 info unless I missed seeing it. ---Tunial


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

I've left it alone at the moment. My system has been running fine.

I sent an e-mail to Microsoft about it. Hope to hear back from them soon.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I also read the relevant Bulletin very carefully and, insofar as any of them are intelligible, didn't find any mention of why a patch or update has to run as a separate application. An 'official ' (and understandable) explanation from MS is required. 

I did notice that this patch replaces one issued in 2003 for users of 2K and XP, but not for '98/ME. The original version of MS05-2 was issued in January still, apparently, without a patch for 98/ME, until the current one was added this week.

My theory, (based on total ignorance of the facts-I do some of my best work that way!) is either that MS have realised their error in not patching earlier OS's, or, that a variation of the original exploit has surfaced making it necessary to patch the older OS's. The original patch could not easily be adapted to integrate with 98/ME (too difficult/expensive - NTFS/FAT32?), so we have a mini application instead.

It will be interesting to see how wrong I am when/if an explanation is provided.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yes I got two updates for 98. 
I got these...
Security Update for Windows 98 (KB888113)
Security Update for Windows 98 (KB891711)

One of them said it was to replace a Critical Update that I already had. Yea patches for patches and pass Critical Updates full of holes.
Plus there is a new KB891711.exe that runs at reboot or startup now. KB891711 was the update name too.

Windows Update  KB891711.exe

KB891711.EXE is part of Windows Update. If automatic update is enabled on your system, then KB891711.EXE will be downloaded automatically.

So it is ok. I don't think I would of known about it if it was not for good old WinPatrol telling me.










angelize56 said did a scan with spybot and it came up with KB891711 and she let spbot fix it but other said a spybot scan did not anything. So don't have spybot fix th update for KB891711.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

I've unchecked it in the MSCONFIG "Startup" tab in both of my 98SE computers and BELARC ADVISOR still validates it.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I see there's quite some discussion of Kb891711.
I went in for the update also, as I use 98se.
I had problems.
My intention was to do the updates and make a new drive image for backup.
I saw 891711 being run and killed the process......blue screened . I was able to 'back out', but had to use ctl-alt-del to reboot.
After a few reboots, the computer worked 'normal', except if I again killed the process...Kb891711.exe.
So I decided to image it anyway.
I tried to defrag, but came back with disk errors and a 'request' to run scanreg.
I ran scanreg(normal) and came back with more than 30 various file errors, crosslinks, situations relating to adaware , FireFox, and things I didn't recognise.
I had run scanreg 3 days before with no problems, so I doubt this problem was there before the update.

I then re imaged from a month ago, so I'm OK now.
But I think I'll wait a while before I update again


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## dr20 (Apr 11, 2003)

Not sure if it's related but since installing KB891711 my whole system has crashed twice while attempting to delete a log file. I completely lose my cursor and can't bring it back by way of ctrl/alt/del/. The only recourse was to shut down the computer and reboot. It's kind of unusual for a "patch" to actully run as a service but if it crashes again it's a security update I can live without.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I disabled it in startup last night, pending some further information to justify this patch running as an application. So far I have not had any problems.

I would be interested to know if any 2000 or XP users also have KB891711 appearing in their startups?.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks for that info, Harry.

It actually wasn't SpyBot that found it, it just came up in her Hijack log. But of course it would, because it's a running process & it runs on Startup. So she fixed it with Hijack This. 

I'm letting it run for now because I don't know if disabling it is going to leave my system vulnerable or something.
I haven't had any crashes or problems. 

I don't know about Windows 2000, but Windows XP users did have the same update but it doesn't run as a process or show up in msconfig for them.

I thought maybe it showed up for us because we are using an older version of Windows. Maybe it needs to be running.

But then again, who knows? I contacted Microsoft via e-mail and their response was idiotic. All I wanted was feedback about the KB891711 process, but they took it as I was experiencing problems with getting Windows Updates.  

If anyone else finds out anything, I'm eager to listen.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Guinea pig AcaCandy here. Let me check for XP updates and see what happens


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Looks like I'm missing only two, I don't allow auto updates:

890830 and 886903.

Nothing running via my startup.


I'm not offerred that update?


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Grrrr I'd really like to know if this patch is supposed to be running as an application.


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## dr20 (Apr 11, 2003)

If you have SP2 you don't need it, the patch was only applicable to SP1 if I'm not mistaken.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I have SP2 

Non-Affected Software:

 Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-002.mspx


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=232880

Another member emailed me this.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Interesting!!

I assume that the XP users having problems are those that didn't install SP2, got this patch originally in January and, maybe, are using Firefox.

I don't use IE now, except for rare visits to Windows Update, so this can stay disabled as far as I am concerned. 

I haven't tried my copy of Firefox since I d/l this patch, and I don't think I'll bother to re-enable it just to test its potential effect on Firefox.

It really is stretching conspiracy theory to suggest that MS issued this patch late for '98/ME because they knew it affected Firefox. Isn't it...?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I have also been having BSOD's.
Last night and this morning my first ever getting a BSOD on boot up. 
A fatel exception OE has occured at 038F:0000DC2.
The currenr app. will be termineted. 
Hit keys did nothing but was able to do a CAD. 
Booted to the windows setup screen and I pick 1 for normal boot.
Then it boots to desktop but I seen it was only 16 color background.
Then was some error I did not write down and then new hardware was found came up.
I closed all of and then PC finished booting up. 
I was at 800x600 16 colors. When to change it back to 1024x768 true color but it only had 16, 256 and high color (16 bit) but it wants to reboot when the setting is so I don't have to reboot. So I rebooted and all was ok. Did some checking around and all was ok or seems to be ok. Also I did pick the high color (16 bit) and did the reboot but after looking I am back at the true color (32 bit)


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Anyone got info on just what this patch is and does.
I was reading the link Candy posted and it seem to be more then just a IE update so even if I don't use IE is it really needed or not I don't know.
Plus when I did install it it did not tell me to reboot my PC where it sounds like it did to others. 

Wonder if us that have trouble are ones that did not reboot right after the update?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Using BELARC ADVISOR and clicking on UPD891711 (details...) you go here to.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q891711

Article ID:891711
Last Review:January 11, 2005
Revision:1.1

*
MS05-002: Vulnerability in cursor and icon format handling could allow remote code execution*

Microsoft has released security bulletin MS05-002. The security bulletin contains all the relevant information about the security update, including file manifest information and deployment options. To view the complete security bulletin, visit the following Microsoft Web site:

 Home users:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/200501_windows.mspx

 IT professionals:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms05-002.mspx

*APPLIES TO*
 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition for Itanium-based Systems
 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition for Itanium-based Systems
 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition
 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition
 Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP4
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server SP3
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server SP4
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 3
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Server SP4
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 3
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional SP4
 Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 3
 Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition (Itanium) 2003
 Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 1
 Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition (Itanium)
 Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition (Itanium)
 Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64-Bit Edition (Itanium)
 Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 6a
 Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 Terminal Server Service Pack 6
 Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
 Microsoft Windows 98 Standard Edition
 Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey Harry 

I still don't know for sure if it's supposed to be running but I haven't touched it.

Oddly enough, I have had no problems at all. (hope I didn't just jinx myself lol)
It didn't prompt me to reboot afterwards, but I did anyway. 

It's strange to see a patch running as an application. That's what throws me.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Hi chesse,

See you did a reboot still and have no troubles or none yet. 
Looking here http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-002.mspx
Under the "General Information" there are the + and you can read up more about it. 
So it does sound like something we should have but yea having it run as a service is something new.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Yes definitely. I don't like seeing the words 'critical' and 'vulnerable' LOL.

That's why I am letting it run for now. 
Microsoft gave me no feedback, so they forwarded my message to a "Support Professional".


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## dr20 (Apr 11, 2003)

Hewee you had all those problems from installing this update? I did reboot since two other patches were installed along with KB891711 that required it. 

But at least four times today my system crashed while trying to delete a file or just surfing so I decided to remove KB891711 and all is well now. 

It's obvious at least with some computers the patch causes instability. I'd say Microsoft did some sloppy work with this one.


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## buf (Nov 4, 2001)

Late this afternoon I downloaded the KB891711\KB891711.EXE for Win98SE also. Have had a few unusual happenings but I do not know if they are associated with the "critical updates". 
I had gone into msconfig for another reason and saw it listed there and so I removed the check mark. Then went to Control Panel>Add/Remove and found KB891711 listed there also. Didn't know what to do and so I left it alone. If I can associate "bad things" happening with these 2 installs, I will remove it from Control Panel. Hope all is well with those of us who installed these. (Don't really know why I did it so quickly because I usually wait for several days before doing what I have done so quickly this time )


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Yes I'm waiting for more info on the matter before I disable anything. 

Nothing strange has happened....yet.


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## Tunial (Oct 21, 2004)

I don't remember if I had to reboot after adding those two critical updates for my Windows98SE but I think I did reboot. The only thing, besides being non-plused at seeing it running in my task list (which 
seemed to be very odd to me), is that I am seeing more incidences of
low resources than I ever used to while doing essentially the same 
things and running the same start-up programs that I've been running. 
As I indicated in my initial post in this thread, I think Kb891711.exe is using more than a nominal amount of available resources on my system. I'm not really surprised to hear of an idiotic answer to a question! Such responses, I call them "canned answers", that in no way relate to the question being asked, seem to be a common occurrence at any number of different companies! Not only Microsoft. :-( Tunial


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## Tunial (Oct 21, 2004)

I haven't yet gotten around to trying to find out why suddenly only IE and now Opera works successfully on my Windows98SE system. The sudden onset of total and abrupt crashes of my Firefox, Mozilla, and IE shell based browsers such as Maxthon, Ace, Access etc. all predated my ever installing those two critical updates. 

Maybe a week or two before. I think something must have happened to corrupt some files, something shared or whatever. I tried uninstalling and then re-installing Firefox and Mozilla with no joy. They still promptly crashed my system to a black screen, sometimes a Blue one, but the black one is the worst...there is no information...it just crashes! 

Anyway, when I did get a message it said: A fatal exception OE has occurred at 0167:BFF9DFFF. The current application will be terminated. Maxthon gave me a GPF: Module KRNL386.exe at 0001:00004c41. I got a "Invalid page fault module Kernel32.dll at 0167:bff9dfff. 

Thinking that my kernel32.dll had somehow gotten munged I restored that file from my installation disk. I rolled back winpopup.exe, setupx.dll, sysprs7.dll, dlauth1.dll and clauth2.dll when System File Checker identified them as having something altered. Both Mozilla and Firefox crash with 0167:BFF9DFFF being identified as the point of conflict. 

I've sadly been doing without them because I don't know what event caused the sudden onset of the problem or how to fix it. If anyone has any help for me on this I would be most happy to hear. Thanks in advance. ---Tunial


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

dr20 said:


> Hewee you had all those problems from installing this update? I did reboot since two other patches were installed along with KB891711 that required it.
> 
> But at least four times today my system crashed while trying to delete a file or just surfing so I decided to remove KB891711 and all is well now.
> 
> It's obvious at least with some computers the patch causes instability. I'd say Microsoft did some sloppy work with this one.


Yes and the first BSOD was from dumping the trash and then the other just starting the PC.

I am going to leave things as is for now and see how things work out and hope after so many good shut downs and start up what ever goes away.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I'd like to repeat that I also had trouble, and upon doing a scandisk(normal) I found much file corruption, FireFox and Adaware being two that I remember.
Has any one else done a scandisk after the update and if so, did you find any problems?



Jack


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i just tried to do a normal scan disk and would not do anything.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i just tried to do a nomal disk scan and it would not work. went in and closed KB891711 and the scan disk worked fine.


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## gaby38 (Jul 19, 2003)

I downloaded the updates a couple of days ago. I also found very strange that KB891711 runs in the background as an application.
Wanted to find some advice from you -- should I allow it to run or not?

I have Windows ME, by the way, and I haven't experienced any problems so far.

After reading all responses I can see that it's effect is still pretty much unknown. I think I am going to leave it alone for now.

Thank you all.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

I'm going to sticky this thread while this is being ironed out.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

The Microsoft article doesn't make it very clear as to what files it updates and what it does. For now, I'm continuing to keep it disabled from running in the background.


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## buf (Nov 4, 2001)

An excellent idea Candy--as usual, you have good motives and reasons :up: 
I have not decided what effect, if any, this install is doing to me. I have taken the check mark out of msconfig but have it left in Control Panel>add/remove. I still cannot close msconfig *without* the error box--Kernel32 causing a GPF in KRNL386.EXE at 00001:000075a2 I have to reboot to get back to windows.
2 days before this "mess" began, I was thinking of removing win98SE and using only WinXP PRO but now I want to know what happened, if possible.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I had the same BSOD at boot up this morning. Did a CAD and it boots to the setup screen, picked normal and it boots to a 16 color wallpaper and a erroe box on A95F comes up. This is my monitor. I cancel out and look and all was there and I had everything to pick from on the setting this time. It even showed I had true color picked but I was only seeing 16 colors. I again did a CAD and it booted up ok but got a box saying the monitor was not config right. I closed that box and it finished booting up and all is ok.

This seems to be a really bad patch from MS.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

Both of my 98SE desktops are working fine with that patch disabled in the startup list. I'll keep my fingers crossed they stay that way.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

flavallee,

Going to have to test shuting down and starting up to see if it is not some hardware going out but have a feeling it is MS update that I need to disable.

I can use WinPatrol to disable it so if it tries to come back WinPatrol will pop up and ask me if I want to let it run at startup again.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i just unchecked KB891711 off the startup menu. i computer shuts down and boots up fine and i just did a normal scan disk.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

No problems with it checked & running (yet)


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## Dch48 (Mar 13, 2005)

In my opinion, nobody should use SpyBot. It "detects" things that are not spyware or any other kind of threat and wants you to delete them. It wanted me to delete the file that told when my anti-virus update subscription would run out! I use AdAware and find it to be much better. Another little tidbit---Spybot IS spyware in and of itself. It plants a nice little back door into your system that of course it does not detect. I would suggest that noone use it.


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## Dch48 (Mar 13, 2005)

Oh, and another thing. It seems that if you uncheck the 891711 exe in startup in Windows 98, the patch does not run. Applying the update does not update any files, it adds the exe and dll file as seperate new Windows 98 components that have to load , so, disable it at your own risk.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Dch48,
I don't know where you get your information from, so I can not offer any evidence in response.

However, you might want to bear in mind that all programs have their weaknesses and problems, including AdAware;http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=60484&hl=tib+browser+object

PS. I'm happy to take my chances with the 891711 update disabled in startup. I don't use IE and have it 'crippled' in the dangerous areas like Active X, cross domain scripting etc.


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## Dch48 (Mar 13, 2005)

Okay--well i get my info from personal experience and from friends experience. I won't use anything but IE and do not have any of it's features "crippled". I've been on line for over 5 years now and have never gotten a virus or been hacked into.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I'm glad that you are not having any problems with IE and, as long as most people continue to use it, the longer we 'minority browser' users will be left in peace by the scum that enjoy wrecking systems.

You might be interested in this article about spyware programs;http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,119572,00.asp Last October, Webroot's SpySweeper and the GIANT program (before MS bought it), were considered to be the best, with a clearance rate of about 80% (much better than the free programs).


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## LCOs_NJM (Mar 7, 2005)

Hey! How about sticking to the topic guys? Or start your own threads about the pros/cons of various anti spyware or browsers?

On this topic, I have only seen one similar behaviour, that of a patch being added to the start up group, that is the DXM6Patch_981116 which loads p_981116.exe

From the info I have been able to find, this is a "a leftover from a DirectX 6.0 upgrade. It was supposed to run once and go away but on some systems it sticks around." quoting Richard D. Harper.

With a similar solution, uncheck it from the start up group.

But I am wondering if this is why kb891711 is stuck in the start up group, maybe it, too, was supposed to run once and go away. Which hints at an incorrect implementation of the patch by Microsoft.

However, it still doesn't explain all the mysterious problems that occur, which disappear when the patch is removed from the start up list......

Try entering "kb891711 problems" into a Google search engine, it seems that this little gem has a LOT of people puzzled (and concerned!!!)


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## Dch48 (Mar 13, 2005)

I did stay on the topic , in a maybe roundabout way. I only mentioned Spybot because someone else said it detected the Windows patch as spyware. Which doesn't surprise me. As for the patch, yes I have seen the problems others have had., I personally haven't had any, but from what I read, when the patch is applied to a Windows 98 system (which is what I have), It does not update any files but just adds the two files in their own folder as new Windows components that have to load every time for the patch to be in effect. Maybe this is not true under other Windows versions.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

LCOs_NJM said:


> Hey! How about sticking to the topic guys? Or start your own threads about the pros/cons of various anti spyware or browsers?
> 
> On this topic, I have only seen one similar behaviour, that of a patch being added to the start up group, that is the DXM6Patch_981116 which loads p_981116.exe
> 
> ...


Here is info on p_981116.exe
DirectX Patch  P_981116.EXE

This file is a patch for Microsofts DirectX 6.x. It should run once and then delete itself. Seeing it in your startup or task lists could indicate that the patch didnt install properly or that you simply havent rebooted your system since performing the installation. Try rebooting. If it remains, its safe to delete.

This file may also appear as P_981116.EXE /Q:A . To view frequently asked questions about DirectX, http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/productinfo/overview/faq.asp

====================

Windows Update  KB891711.exe

KB891711.EXE is part of Windows Update. If automatic update is enabled on your system, then KB891711.EXE will be downloaded automatically.

Fixes for common errors can be found in Microsofts Knowledgebase:
Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-002
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS05-002.mspx

MS05-002: Vulnerability in cursor and icon format handling could allow remote code execution 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;891711


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

If you don't like having that 6-digit update or any other entry in the Add/Remove Programs list, just go into the registry at *HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE - Software - Microsoft - Windows - CurrentVersion - Uninstall* and delete them from the Uninstall sub-menu.

Just make sure that you don't plan to uninstall any of those entries before you delete them.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

iam not a pro at computers but if we uninstall KB891711 using the add/remove program, everytime we go to windows updates it will try to install again. iam leaving mine unchecked on the statup menu at this time.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey guys,

I am hoping to finally shed you some light on this issue. 

I've been in contact with Microsoft via e-mail and I finally got some answers.

It is normal for KB891711 folder to exist in C:\Windows\System.

But, it is abnormal if it's running all the time and in the startup item menu.
So we can go ahead and uncheck it. For me, it did not recheck itself after I rebooted.

If KB891711 is still checked and running, then it is a system problem.
So go here and let them know: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance

That's all I have for now but I hope it can put most of us at ease. :up:


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

Thanks for the heads-up, CheeseBall.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

You're welcome, Frank


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## buf (Nov 4, 2001)

Many thanks for sharing your MS info with us Cheeseball81. I made a lucky guess on 3-11 when I unchecked that item in my Startup in msconfig. I have continued to leave it in Control Panel Add/Remove without any problems.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I started up the last two day without any trouble. Lets hope it stays that way.


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## Spudly (Jun 30, 2004)

I too have been having a system that appears to be obessed after the last Windows Update. I'm running ME. I do have 891711 running in my tasks. How does one "uncheck" it in the startup menu??

There appears to be no way to let them know for free eh?

http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

Go to START - RUN
Type in msconfig
Hit OK
Go to the tab 'Startup'
Find the entry for 891711 and uncheck it
Hit Apply, then OK
You will be prompted to reboot


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## Spudly (Jun 30, 2004)

Thanks!

I'll give that a whirl, meanwhile I found the following...

Customers in the U.S. and Canada can receive technical support from Microsoft Product Support Services at 1-866-PCSAFETY. There is no charge for support calls that are associated with security updates.


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

You're welcome 

Good tip with posting the number. 
I felt fortunate enough to actually find help through e-mail, though it did take a few days.


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## Byteman (Jan 24, 2002)

hi, Just sharing what the 891711 update did on this win98SE: The mouse cursor- when I just am moving the cursor over quickly, it starts the floppy drive grinding.

Floppy drive also grinding for a few seconds at startup.

Also> about every half hour the floppy drive just grinds away for a bit longer and stops.

Glad to see the info about getting it out of startups!


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## paulb100 (Mar 17, 2005)

xp keeps turning off my monitor after instalation, why???


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## Squashman (Apr 4, 2003)

paulb100 said:


> xp keeps turning off my monitor after instalation, why???


http://forums.techguy.org/t342103.html


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## KenBaxter (Mar 22, 2005)

I also installed KB891711 recently (on Sunday 3/13/05) and have had problems with my machine since. I have Windows ME installed on my Dell L800R. This has driven me nuts for over a week. I have been out of my league with this as I'm not a Windows expert by any means. I finally tried booting tonight using the msconfig in the Start, Run window, adding one thing at a time to the Startup. When I hit this one, the machine wouldn't boot completely as it's been doing sine 3/13. 

Anybody know what this is supposed to do and if there's a fix out there for Windows ME?


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## buf (Nov 4, 2001)

Ken, sorry to learn you have "joined" others of us who have been having some of the same problems. Most have found some relief by taking the check mark from the file in msconfig. Try it and I hope you have success also.
BTW, welcome to TSG.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi Ken 

Also sorry to see another member with problems on this issue.
Most seem to have had luck as buf said.
My luck was worse.
I ran scanreg(regular) and found many files corrupted.
Firefox and Adaware were both broken and what else I wasn't sure.
I reinstalled by way of a drive image I made several weeks before, for a backup.

I would suggest you perform scanreg to make sure there is no file corruption, also.

That's one update I won't try again!



Jack.


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## EAFiedler (Apr 25, 2000)

I have been looking through the newsgroups on the issue of KB891711.EXE being placed in Startup.
Users affected appear to be: Windows 98, Windows 98SE, Windows Me and some Windows 2000 users.

At this time, the *suggestion* is that the drivers for Video Cards may not be compatible with the update, though this has not been verified as of yet.

I have suggested to another poster, to disable KB891711.EXE in MSCONFIG and update the Video Card drivers.

Perhaps, since there is still no hard and fast resolution other than disabling the update in MSCONFIG,
Someone would be willing to try this:


Disable the update KB891711.EXE in MSCONFIG
Update the Video Card drivers
Enable the update
Report the results
If there is no improvement, 

Uninstall the KB891711.EXE update
Reinstall the update

With the hope, that with the newer Video Card drivers, the second installation of the update will work without causing problems.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi EAFiedler,

My OS instal was several months ago. My video card was giving me fits, so I installed an ATI All In Wonder card I had. I used new drivers from ATI. So I don't think that helps me.
My system was 'hosed' pretty badly, so I reinstalled a drive image I made recently.
It's curious to see that the problems varried from mild to severe.
I have no intention of ever doing that update again


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## EAFiedler (Apr 25, 2000)

Sorry *Stoner*, I did not see any system specs listed for you, would you be so kind as to list that information?

Thanks


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Hi EAFiedler

I'm using Win98se with all the corporate updates. Recent Install--2 months ago.
Briefly....:
Gateway P3 5oo, 384 mb memory
16 mb ATI all in Wonder vid.
60 gig Maxtor.
soundblaster sound card(original)
Samsung CDRW 16x10x32
HP Deskjet Plus printer


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## elaich (Jan 22, 2005)

Do NOT install KB891711.EXE on a Win9x system. It looks like Microsoft screwed up and the patch is NOT needed on Win9x systems.

http://tinyurl.com/5qv6j

"Got with a tech support guy fairly quickly (!) and he explained that the KB891711 patch was not required for WIN98, even though the Windows Update service called it a critical update. He had me uncheck it in the Startup list on msconfig, and also remove it from the registry: Run Regedit, export a registry file to the desktop as a backup, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Windows/Current Version/"

I'm going to start a new thread on this so people will see it without having to dig into this one.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Hmmm...March 11....how timely.


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## elaich (Jan 22, 2005)

Are you saying that the information is invalid because it's 2 weeks old?

People here are still discussing it, and people are still installing it and having trouble. The fact that someone found this out 2 weeks ago, but nobody else here had yet found this, does not make it untrue or irrelevant.


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## bobc (Aug 26, 2003)

So what's the advice on Kb891711, for those who haven't made the update yet? Wait? or go ahead with it?


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

elaich said:


> Are you saying that the information is invalid because it's 2 weeks old?


Don't think I said anything about invalid 



Cheeseball81 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am hoping to finally shed you some light on this issue.
> 
> ...


That post was posted here on 3/13.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

It always seemed odd that this patch was released for 9x two months after 2K and XP and, once it was confirmed that it was running as an application, I disabled it in msconfig the day after I installed it.

I didn't notice any problems in the short period that the patch was 'active' but I may not have the necessary combination of hardware/software. As has already been mentioned, one of the theories involves conflicts with certain types of Intel graphics controllers.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

TOGG:

I also didn't have a problem with it running in both of my 98SE desktops. If GolferBob hadn't alerted us to it being in the MSCONFIG startup list, I may not have noticed it there for another week or two.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i guess i have more time to do the simple items but i use a little program to check for any downloads and the startup menu. website below. you pros keep up the good work.

http://www.worldstart.com/weekly-download/archives/reg-cleaner4.3.htm


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

I *always* check the MSCONFIG startup tab list after I install a new program or update an older one. That's how I keep at bay what runs in the background.


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## Etorgg (Mar 28, 2005)

'Read half of this thread and some linked-to threads, then jumped to this page.

Thanks for all the help, in particular to Tech Support Guy.

'Am using Win98se, fresh install with updates...now, minus Kb891711 on this machine.

Before removing Kb891711, using Add/Remove in Control Panel, Maxthon would crash system immeditately upon any attempts to open it. Now, I come to you through Maxthon browser.

I still have a Kb891711 folder in C:\windows\system with two items in it...Kb891711 with Windows icon, and a Q891711 .dll Also, Kb891711 still shows in list after ctrl-alt-del, albeit higher up...whatever that means.

My opining? M$ is just protecting their investment, however dastardly-like. We're dealing with huge companies that can and will do what they want. Fortunately, the user community is bigger.

Again, thanks for the help.


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## TechKidBT (Mar 28, 2005)

I was looking for an answer to another problem when I was led to this thread. I work for a computer repair service, and just installed this KB891711 patch on a client's Win98SE machine. The system seems to be running fine, no errors or problems, but after seeing everyone else's problem, I'm thinking about removing it. Any recommendations? Thanks

BTW, this is probably one of the most helpful forums I've ever used. Thanks!


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

iam running win98se. my computer ran fine but i couldn't to a diskscan.


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## TechKidBT (Mar 28, 2005)

Are you running a Standard or Thorough scan? I ran a standard scan, and it went through fine.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i was running standard -fix all errors. glad yours is working fine.


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## bearone2 (Jun 4, 2004)

that's why i don't do updates to se, 2k or xppro.

the concept that something requiring a critical fix has happened to an os that's 7 years old amazes me.

i don't do updates and don't have problems.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

I remember you saying you never install Windows updates, and that you reinstall Windows once or twice a year. Don't encourage others to do the same.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This is the list of updates and hotfixes in my Windows 98SE desktop:

*Installed Microsoft Hotfixes

.NETFramework 1.1 
S867460 (details...)

DataAccess 
Q329414-21 on (details...) 
KB870669 (details...)

Internet Explorer SP1 (SP1) 
Q313829 (details...) 
Q837009 (details...) 
Q867282 (details...) 
Q887797 (details...) 
Q889293 (details...) 
Q891781 (details...)

SP1 
UPD192425 (details...)

Win98.SE 
UPD3781 (Windows 98 Second Edition UHCD Update) 
UPD236926 (details...) 
UPD237493 (details...) 
UPD238453 (details...) 
UPD239696 (details...) 
UPD239887 (details...) 
UPD240664 (details...) 
UPD241052 (details...) 
UPD241084 (details...) 
UPD242193 (details...) 
UPD243199 (details...) 
UPD243450 (details...) 
UPD245682 (details...) 
UPD246387 (details...) 
UPD246817 (details...) 
UPD249146 (details...) 
UPD249635 (details...) 
UPD250514 (details...) 
UPD250876 (details...) 
UPD253697 (details...) 
UPD253711 (details...) 
UPD256015 (details...) 
UPD257360 (details...) 
UPDQ258680 (details...) 
UPD259728 (details...) 
UPD260067 (details...) 
 UPD263044 (details...) 
UPD263891 (details...) 
UPD264650 (details...) 
UPD265115 (details...) 
UPD269601 (details...) 
UPD271811 (details...) 
UPD272137 (details...) 
UPD272621 (details...) 
UPD273017 (details...) 
UPD273991 (details...) 
UPD274370 (details...) 
UPD275873 (details...) 
UPD276602 (details...) 
UPD277628 (details...) 
UPD278033 (details...) 
UPD280448 (details...) 
UPD281533 (details...) 
UPD283032 (details...) 
UPD288430 (details...) 
UPD288550 (details...) 
UPD289635 (details...) 
UPD290831 (details...) 
UPD291362 (details...) 
UPD293197 (details...) 
UPD293793 (details...) 
UPD305037 (details...) 
UPD306453 (details...) 
UPD306889 (details...) 
UPD310695 (details...) 
UPD311561 (details...) 
UPD321467 (details...) 
UPDQ823559 (details...)

Win98 
UPD245729 (details...) 
UPD269874 (details...) 
UPD274175 (details...) 
UPD315575 (details...) 
UPD319571 (details...) 
UPD323172 (details...) 
UPD323255 (details...) 
UPD329115 (details...) 
UPD811630 (details...) 
UPD840315 (details...) 
UPD888113 (details...) 
UPD891711 (details...)

Windows Media Player 
WM819639 (details...) 
KB837272 (details...) 
WM885492 (details...) *

---------------------------------------------------------------


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## BIGALX58 (Jul 22, 2001)

Just to add my 2 cents.... I installed 888113 and 891711 on Mar 22/05 and everything is running without any probs....I didn't notice that 891711 was in my startup until I read about it here. Right now, I'm going to leave things as is. I guess I should consider myself fortunate????


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## Cheeseball81 (Mar 3, 2004)

BIGALX, yes you were fortunate like me. I didn't experience any problems with the patch running either. 
It just annoyed me seeing it there all the time


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Same here. Didn't give me any trouble before I disabled it in msconfig. 

It just freaked me out having it running as if it were a free standing 'application', so that's why I'm choosing to do without it.


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## bearone2 (Jun 4, 2004)

flavallee said:


> I remember you saying you never install Windows updates, and that you reinstall Windows once or twice a year. Don't encourage others to do the same.
> 
> i install se when needed and the xppro machines go back almost 4 years on the original install.
> 
> ...


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

Why bother? Probably because of the vulnerabilities once you connect to the outside world.


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## kdd9 (Mar 25, 2005)

O.K. How 'bout this one?:


Microsoft Security Bulletin MS05-020
Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer (890923)

Issued: April 12, 2005
Version: 1.0

Summary
Who should read this document: Customers who use Microsoft Windows

Impact of Vulnerability: Remote Code Execution

Maximum Severity Rating: Critical

Recommendation: Customers should apply the update immediately.


I've been holding off untill I checked here first. I'm just wondering if anyone has noticed any problems with it yet? I am running 98SE.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

890923 is the cumulative update for MIE 6.0 SP1, so install it.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

No problems on my comp with 890923.


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Although I don't use IE, and have its settings severely restricted, I still install all the patches because it is the gateway through which most of the c**p gets installed, whether you have it running or not.

I haven't noticed any particular problems since I installed the latest patch.


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## kdd9 (Mar 25, 2005)

Thanks for the responses. I will go ahead with it. :up:


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## kellys (Jul 15, 2003)

OK..big problemo here. Bought Pioneer 108 burner internal for Windows 98 SE HP tower, worked fine until I actually put it inside the thing and closed up. Now it freezes my computer. Every once in a while I can burn a good disk but most of the time it freezes in the middle of the burn. I have to turn off manually and i always shut down all programs from running while I do this. I know that HP Pavillions are crap. I have read enough about their hardware issues but why would it be fine outside and then(probably a coincidence) freezes when put inside? I really need this burner. I did make one disk yesterday that had not finalized correctly but did not show that it did not. The burn was slow but went well. The last episode was not there and the picture was muddled. Any help would be great.


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## ~Candy~ (Jan 27, 2001)

You sure you have it hooked up securely and jumpered correctly? You don't per chance have it on the same cable with another drive, do you?


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## vivax (Feb 8, 2005)

Hi
Do you know where i can find the critical updates for win 98se as files ? 
I can't get it by using windows update. I tried every trick in the book but windows update won't work (my win 98se is legit and so that's not the problem).
For unknown reason, microsoft doesn't let those updates to be downloaded seperately.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

When you go to the Windows updates site and attempt to do a scan for updates, what is it doing?

You might try going to the Windows updates troubleshooter site at

http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/troubleshoot/

and see you can find a solution to the problem that you're having.

----------------------------------------------------------------


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Windows Update hasn't worked properly for me for some time. I assume it is something to do with the various restrictions I have applied to IE.

It is possible to get updates as .exe files, but you will need to know exactly which ones you need, eg. the dates and or MS KB numbers. This would be complicated by the fact that so many updates are Cumulative, so you only need the latest dated one of each.

If the Update site doesn't work at all for you, this might not either, but have a look at the catalog version;http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/catalog/en/default.asp You have to enter your OS and then, under 'Advanced', limit the search to Critical updates and a specific period of time (unless you need them all!).

I have '98 and I just looked and found 73 Critical Updates and Service Packs using the 'All posted dates' option, a lot of which must now have been superseded and are out of date.


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## vivax (Feb 8, 2005)

As I mentioned - I tried every known trick, including those that MS suggests. I keep getting "Cannot Display Page" message.


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## vivax (Feb 8, 2005)

I used to update every couple of weeks, but can,t do it any more for some time.

The updates that I'm trying to find now are kb890175, kb871250. Both can't be found as *.exe files for win98, only for XP, 2000 etc. For win98 - they send me to the windows update.... boom......


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

See if you can find them here;http://erpman1.tripod.com/w98meupd.html


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

If erpman's site is no help, will the MS Download Center work for you?;http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...Keyword&value='security_patch'&displaylang=en

I can even access it with my Opera Browser (although I just got a 'server is too busy' message when I searched for one of your patches!).

PS. Where are you getting the information about the patches you need?. It appears that 871250 was only rated as 'Important' for '98, so, under current support policies, it won't be provided will it?;http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms05-jan.mspx.


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## vivax (Feb 8, 2005)

Thank you for both replies. You are right about the "important". I'll try the link you suggested.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

You used to be able to go to the update page and then pick Windows Update Catalog.
http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?p=2266092

But I do not see that option there any more.


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

Here are 2 good sites for obtaining Windows 98SE updates, along with some that are never posted in the Microsoft Windows Updates site:

http://www.mdgx.com/

Scroll down and click the "98SE" link under the *Windows 98/98 SE + DOS 7* heading.

Start from the bottom of the list and work your way up.

http://www.techspot.com/tweaks/updates/#Win98SE

Start from the top of the list and work you way down.

----------------------------------------------------------------


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## vivax (Feb 8, 2005)

Thanks to all of you guys.


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## bloomcounty (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi,

I have Windows 98SE and I originally installed the first version of that patch. Then I noticed that it set up an .exe file that was part of start-up when I ran msconfig. I don't remember if I had any problems with it, my computer might have been a bit slower, but I didn't like the idea of this weird .exe always running. At the time, this is what I did:

I ran HijackThis and just removed/deleted the entry for KB891711. I then found the folder for it in Windows-->System and renamed it and its contents (putting "(not)" after the name of the folder and it's two items).

...my computer seemed to work fine after that. This was however many months ago when the patch first came out. Just today I found this thread and noticed that someone mentioned it listed in their add/remove programs. So I checked mine, and it was there too! So I removed it from there as well. When I restarted my computer, I didn't see anything saying that my system was "updating" or anything, so I'm guessing that it being listed in the add/remove programs was just a "left-over" before I removed it with HijackThis (and that it wasn't really still "installed"). Does that seem right? Should I have left it on the add/remove programs list?

My other question is, what's up with the "new version" of that update? Is it safe to install? Is it still an .exe that's always running? And is it necessary to install for Windows 98SE (as I saw postings claiming the original patch was incorrectly listed as critical for 98SE, but really wasn't)? 

Any input/help would be greatly apprecaited -- thanks, as always! 

-- bloomcounty


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## flavallee (May 12, 2002)

I installed the newer 891711 update. I just keep it unchecked in the MSCONFIG "Startup" tab.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

thats how i have mine ,just unchecked on the startup.


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## bloomcounty (Jun 4, 2005)

So is there any difference between not installing it at all or installing it and then unchecking it in msconfig? If it's unchecked, is it even doing anything?

Thanks!

-- bloomcounty


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

I don't have an answer to your question, but I can say that I have not had any problems since I disabled the first version of this patch in msconfig. I never bothered to remove it, or to install the second version.

I didn't actually have any of the problems other people appear to have had with it during the short time it was active, but wasn't happy with a patch that needed to load and run at startup (or to be more precise, with the absence of any explanation from MS as to why this unusual behaviour was necessary). 

Perhaps some good reasons have been provided but I just missed the announcement?


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

The first version of KB891711 I had trouble with but use WinPatrol to disable it.
With WinPatrol anything you Disable from Start Up will not show up in the MSCONFIG list.

But the after the newer version of KB891711 came out I uninstalled it and rebooted and then got the new version and I have not had any trouble.


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

I went ahead and installed KB891711 about 3 weeks ago.
After a week or so, I started getting BSODs several times a day.
I could always back out of the BSOD, but I would have to do a forced shut down to turn the computer off.
I unchecked KB891711 in Msconfig about 5 days ago and things have been stable since.


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## golferbob (May 18, 2004)

i had to uncheck mine also. it works fine in some systems but not mine.


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## bloomcounty (Jun 4, 2005)

I still haven't installed it. My impression is installing it and then unchecking it in msconfig is the same as not installing it (or, at least, has the same effect -- sure, the program's on your computer, but if it's unchecked, it's not doing anything, right?). 

So am I right in thinking that there's really no advantage to installing it and then having to uncheck it because it messes up your system? Especially since I've got Windows 98SE and I thought I read that it's not even an critical update for that, even though it's listed as such...

Thoughts?

Thanks!

-- bloomcounty


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## TOGG (Apr 2, 2002)

Way back when this issue first came up I did read something to the effect that this patch was issued for 2000/XP last Summer/Autumn, and then, as an afterthought, for 9x versions in January this year. 

That version caused problems for many 9x users and was replaced in April with a version that was OK for some people. It was implied in some places that it wasn't a Critical issue for 9x, but I don't know where I saw that.

The first version didn't give me any problems but I disabled it in msconfig because I didn't like the fact that it ran as a separate .exe file at startup. I haven't bothered to uninstall it or to try the April version, and haven't had any problems (yet)! I may just have been lucky or my other security apps (and not using IE) are keeping me safe. 

We all have to decide what we want, or need, to do to protect ourselves and I usually do install all Critical patches.


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## bloomcounty (Jun 4, 2005)

Yeah, I originally installed the first patch, saw that it slowed down my computer, and then saw that it was an .exe so I removed it with both HijackThis and Add/Remove program. Never bothered to try the new one. I don't like the idea of something like that always having to run. Maybe they'll come up with a patch that isn't an .exe someday. I have installed all other Critical Update patches though...

-- bloomcounty


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## Byteman (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi, For those who use win98 *Second Edition*

there is a pretty good Unofficial update package....has just about everything you need, even the look of Window 2000.
Many system and security updates, the same as the ones from Microsoft, I find it easy to install and use but it's a pretty large download.
It seems to be a very stable update package, I install it on all win98SE reinstalls, after I install Direct X and a few other things. There is a forum for info on just what to do.
Here is the info page on exactly what updates this includes:

http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

To download, use this link> http://www.usbman.com/win98seusbguide.htm


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

For a few, that unofficial update package doesn't work.....hardware configuration? maybe.
I tried it on a fresh full instal of 98se with no additional software and all I could accomplish was a BSOD with the computer locked up. 

Thanks but no thanks


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## Byteman (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Stoner---I doubt there is anything that works for all of us!

You said you installed in on a fresh, full install of 98SE>

Did you install your motherboard drivers, and any system updates from the maker of the pc, (if it was a branded type)? 

I've used it on no name pc's as well as HP's, Gateways, with different types of chipsets, and not had any problem, yet...

If the machine had a VIA chipset for instance, I get the drivers for that on first. There are additional updates, from VIA, for win98 USB...made to help devices work, as there can be quirks with some of the older VIA's. This service pack includes things like that.

This Unofficial Service Pack is not a replacement for drivers for chips or cards, it is for the operating system, and contains several updates for USB function, and regular Microsoft Updates. The forum for the service pack has some guidelines about things you should install before using this update pack.

I'll bet I run into a system that has trouble with this SP too- the thing is uninstallable, BUT, not all the files will be removed that are installed. Did you try simply uninstalling the SP> I'd just like to know in case it gives me a problem at some time...


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## Stoner (Oct 26, 2002)

Mornin' byteman,

The instal was on my Gateway P3 500, most of the drivers came off the instal CD.
The only hardware I can think of that I've added is a CDRW, a DVD player, more memory and a larger hard drive.
I flashed an update on the bios.
I do use a KVM.


Just another one of those mysteries of life _


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## bigdee369 (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi everybody, 
I was directed to this thread last nite doing a Google search on *Firefox caused an invalid page fault* and started reading posts in this thread and others about this update. I had noticed this update listed in my System Configuration under Startup and also wondered about it before.

So, I finally got brave and removed it from the Control Panel-- the dialog box about restarting came out---It was in German. Would it have been effective as an update on my computer if it was written in German? Does anyone know? Even though I removed this update from Control Panel, an entry for it is still in Startup, I had had it unchecked for a while now, though, anyway.
I just wanted to add my experience about above mentioned update. Thanks,

bigdee


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