# easier way to add info to Jpeg properties



## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

What software is good for editing the Comments,title, subject...etc of a Jpeg file (the properties).

Rather than right click and go to properties, I want to be able to view the file and then add information like People or place year etc.

My HP software sort of has it, but I'd like to know if there are any other programs (free downloads) that may work better.


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## slipe (Jun 27, 2000)

Irfanview lets you do that in batches if you want. You can make the thumbnails larger so you can see better, hold the Ctrl key while you select everything that you want a certain comment or IPTC data. Right click on a highlighted image and go to loseless operations. www.irfanview.com

Another freeware with good capabilities in that regard is MyAlbum. http://perso.orange.fr/myalbum/MyAlbum.html


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

thanks, I have Irfanview. It is not a batch change I want, but individual pictures. I'll check out the one you listed.

I assume this is the one I would use, but it comes up with another language, and looks like it did not find the page

MyAlbum The standard international version of MyAlbum (2.24 MB)


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

cindylachieuse :

Not what I'm looking for, but the site is pretty cool.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

Ziggy1 said:


> cindylachieuse :Not what I'm looking for, but the site is pretty cool.


That Spammer's gone now (again) ... along with their spam.

Can't you use Irfanview >> Information >> Comment ???
See comment ....


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

LOL...I thought it was, but I liked the site

those properties in Irfanview are more for the technical part of the file. I want to do this quickly I don't want to call up a picture then click somewhere to bring up the properties, then click the summary tab, add info an then click OK. It just gets annoying when you go through a lot of pictures.

what I'm looking for is a single screen where I can flip through the images (need to be able to see it), just click in the fields to update and then move on.


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

From what I understand the info is stored in the EXIF header of the file. I added the titles of the categories (surrounded by 1's) and then opened the file with Notepad

ÿØÿà JFIF    ÿá ªExif II*     J   Z   p      1 T i t l e 1 1 C o m m e n t s 1 1 A u t h o r 1 1 K e y 1 1 S u b j e c t 1


From what I can see it writes 3 null values between categories and one Null between each character.

But anyways I would expect that this is something everyone would want to store with their image files. I am just not seeing a "Standard" amongst the programs I have been trying. And like I said a simple way to modify the info.


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## slipe (Jun 27, 2000)

The more common way to add information to a file is the IPTC. It transfers with the file like the EXIF and is in an easily modified format.

M$ has a new powertoy you might find useful. I just installed it and you can get something like you want for the metadata. The information goes in the IPTC. You can "select all", right click one of the highlighted images and select Photo Info. You can page through the thumbnails with the text input box active for that thumbnail.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/photoinfo.mspx


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

thanks slipe, I downloaded the MS program. that exactly what I am looking for. The only problem with this one is the image is quite small so I have to open some of them to take a good look at who/where.

I'll have to read up on the IPTC


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

I like this, I am able to add the generic info to multiple files (edit as collection option) and then go back and add specific details by flipping through each picture.

The download adds it to the right click menu.


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## slipe (Jun 27, 2000)

> The only problem with this one is the image is quite small so I have to open some of them to take a good look at who/where.


Which is why Irfanview works better for me. I can display the thumbnails at 300 pixels and still have three abreast. There is enough information in a 300 pixel thumb to sort, delete and modify without having to cycle through the full sized image. Occasionally I'll call up the full screen image and scroll back and forth between two that are similar when I see no reason to keep both. Irfanview thumbnails is normally a good tool for most housekeeping.

If I added comments or metadata to photos I would use Irfanview. With a thumbnail large enough to see I would right click, loseless, set comment (or IPTC). You get the full sized image with the comment box and the thumbnail page is still in the taskbar with the last image highlighted. It would be a lot faster for me than the M$ powertoy after having to check the full sized image.

You are evidently a more highly disciplined photographer than I. It took a while during the transition from film, but now I take lots of shots. So even a comment like "Zoe eyeing Natalie while pulling Bubba's tail" would apply to several images.

Edit:


> I like this, I am able to add the generic info to multiple files (edit as collection option) and then go back and add specific details by flipping through each picture.


I could do that a lot faster in Irfanview as well.


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

Ok thanks I'll look again at Irfanview, it says i have to down load a plugin for lossness from the website.

I'm thinking longterm. I have hundreds of images that I have been scanning. So as this now becomes a digital collection I want to be able to have the names of the people added and the description much like you would have in the past when you had the "developed" pictures....and yes that was a pain to remember to do....often you just wrote on the envelope the subject and then filed it away.

Thanks


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

A program that I find usefull is XnView: www.xnview.com
Similar to Irfanview, but with more options. I use both. 
After adding 'Comments' to your photos, viewing the comment always took a few clicks. With XnView you can set what you want to show in the tooltips. Hover your mouse over a thumbnail and instantly read the comment, or IPTC.

moper


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

I'm wondering .... How can we add comments that'll show here ??
Irfanview can't seem to do it.


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

Noyb said:


> I'm wondering .... How can we add comments that'll show here ??
> Irfanview can't seem to do it.


If you right click on the folder headings (name,type modified etc), you can select many more things to show.

Moper I'll try that Xnview, thanks...

.I've been downloading many different free software programs to see what they do. Even if they don't do what I want exactly is interesting to see the different options that are available


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

I've been searching for an explorer shell extension that would do just that. But, I could not find anything. XnView was the next best thing. As you can see from the attachment, the editing of the tooltip is quite extensive.


moper


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

Xnview looks good I also like this program. It has a dual monitor option which is pretty slick... http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

Noyb said:


> I'm wondering .... How can we add comments that'll show here ?? (the picture of the Comments column in the Windows Explorer)
> Irfanview can't seem to do it.


That Comments column is one of the more than 3 dozen different property details that Windows can maintain for many of the file types. Usually you only are seeing less than a half dozen (date, size, type, and very few more) but you can turn those others on. You have the Comments detail already showing, but now you are wondering how to add or modify that Comments detail. IrfanView does not give you access to that Windows maintained file property. It is not EXIF or IPTC data. It is not the JPG comment data field either (a similarly named field, but different). Just like IrfanView does not give you the ability to modify the date and time data of the file. (Which can be done with some other tools.)

You can change the file Comment data through the Properties sheet of the file, though. Just right click the file, select Properties, go to the Summary sheet and select the Comments field (you may need to double-click it if you are looking at the Advanced Summary vs the Simple Summary sheet.

I have found that I can "gang change" the Comments field of multiple files, at one time, by gang selecting the files, then go to the Properties, and go to the Advanced sheet. From that point whatever I put in for a comment will be made for all the files selected.

I have found that there is a limit to the number of characters you can enter. Here I found I could enter 259 characters, but I do not know if that limit is affected by any combination of other characters I could also enter in other fields also. So, your limit may be different. I won't argue the point.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Don't know if the Comment data is the same on all programs or not but with ACDsee you have the option but to get to it you have to put a checkmark by "description" then it shows it as a "column" and then you can anything to the "description".
But it does not write anything to the images but keeps the info in a "descript.ion" and a descript.ion file will be made for every folder that you have a comment made.

So if you ever did this and moved the images your have to also move the descript.ion file with it because it has the data in it with image file name and comment for that image.


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## Noyb (May 25, 2005)

ChuckE said:


> You can change the file Comment data through the Properties of the file


Thanks ... That was too easy, never would have thought to look there.


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

I think the most annoying part of what led me to this post is that I can add info from windows explorer by right clicking, but then using other programs, I don't see it. So then from those programs I would do the same and then try to view the info amonst other programs in order to try and find the consistant fields.

I do see that certain fields are named the same but, some will relate to EXIF or IPTC or just as "Description". 

I have not uploaded any images to sites like "Flickr", but looking at that site you have to add info also. it just seems like such a wast of time. If you could just embed your data in a standard format then you would not have to repeat it?


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

The 'Comments' that you see in the Windows Summary tab, is actually written to an alternate data stream within the file system(NTFS). It does not move to CD's, Fat32 drives, etc. The 'Comments' that you see in Irfanview, Xnview, Photoshop, and other photo editors, is written within the jpg file. It is part of the JFIF file standard, therefore standardized among image programs. Don't confuse the two. Windows should have given it a different name.



moper


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

moper said:


> The 'Comments' that you see in the Windows Summary tab, is actually written to an alternate data stream within the file system(NTFS). It does not move to CD's, Fat32 drives, etc. The 'Comments' that you see in Irfanview, Xnview, Photoshop, and other photo editors, is written within the jpg file. It is part of the JFIF file standard, therefore standardized among image programs. Don't confuse the two. Windows should have given it a different name.


NOT SO!
The Comments that show up in the Comments column of the Window Explorer, when that data is set to be displayed, are part of the file.

Here are four ways that you can prove it to yourself.
Add some large unique Comment data to a JPG picture and you will see the JPG file size grow proportionally. If the data were not in the file, then why does the file size grow?
After putting the Comment data in the file, just use IrfanView to observe the Hex data of the file. You will see your data sting located there. The data string starts a couple hundred bytes from the start of the file (or maybe more, depending upon other data fields that may be there). (Note, you will see the string data with anextra byte between each character. That extra byte is because the eash ASCII character is stored as 2 bytes, since Unicode requires 2 bytes per each character. Just "look past" the every-other-byte separation.)
Even more convincing, just add a Comment field, and then use some transfer medium (I used a USB drive, but you could just as easily email it) to get that file now over to another computer. On that second computer see if the same Comment field shows. Note: on that second computer you will have to enable the Windows Explorer setting to also display the Comments data, if you want to see the Comments with that method. Otherwise you will need to look at the Properties page.
Last, and this should prove it, attached here is a JPG that I have placed a large Comment to the file. Download the file and see if "11111222223333344444555556666677777888889999900000AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDDEEEEEaaaaabbbbbcccccdddddeeeee" appears with the file on your end. I'll bet it does.

I am not disputing that the EXIF and the IPTC data are part of the file, they are, but so is the file property Comments (and the other 3 dozen fields as well). IrfanView can show the JPG Comments field, but it is not the Windows file property seen, nor is it alterable via IrfanView. That is why I specifically mentioned that the Windows file Comments are not the JPG Comments (a similarly named field, but different).

The "descript.ion" data file, that *hewee* mentioned, is a separate file, and that does not exist in the actual files themselves, but are a trick that has been around for many years in many other operating system schemes (some are actually designed that way - and it is not so much a trick, but a real designed-in feature, like with the Amiga OS).


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

Chucke, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. When you use Windows Explorer properties, you get a Summary tab, with a Comments box. http://attachments.techguy.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108604&stc=1&d=1182209415
This is written in the NTFS file system. Irfanview does not see it.

When you use the Comment box of Irfanview,
http://attachments.techguy.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108605&stc=1&d=1182209567, this gets written into the jpg file itself, and is recognized by all photo editing programs. And, Windows Explorer does not see it.

I do not use the Comment box of windows explorer, because it only works on an NTFS file system.

Here's a handy utility for viewing jpg header informatiion:JpegSnoop

Chucke, you are correct that windows explorer summary writes to the jpg file. Text documents get the summary written to the file system. I guess each file type is different. Still, the comment written by windows explorer can not be seen by any image editing program. I tried 4 different ones. The comment written by Irfanview can be seen by all, except Windows Explorer.

moper


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

Hi *moper*, I may have mis-understood what you thought you said, but I answered what you did say.
Earlier I had said: "_IrfanView does not give you access to that Windows maintained file property. It is not EXIF or IPTC data. It is not the JPG comment data field either (a similarly named field, but different)._
Whereas you said: "_It does not move to CD's, Fat32 drives, etc._"
I was disputing that, and I believe I proved that the actual JPG file itself does hold onto that Comment data. It is NOT the JPG field called Comments, nor is it any of the IPTC fields (not so much called Comments, but a similar idea).

Granted, the FAT32 and earlier DOS file systems do not provide for the display, addition, or alteration of the 3 dozen different file properties that NTFS does, but that does not mean the fields are not there.

For example, I moved a file with some set "other" properties (of those 3 dozen), from my NTFS WinXP computer over to a Win98 machine. I can use IrfanView's hex viewer (or any hex editor or viewer) to see the existance of those bytes of data in the file. I can't (easily) edit them on that Win98 machine, but they are there.

I then copied the file over to another device and them placed that file onto another NTFS computer, and now the properties display and can be edited.

The point being, that while Win98 does not support any those other file properties, the bytes of property data can carry over in the transport of the file. Assuming there was nothing running on the Win98 (FAT32) machine to strip that data off, the fields remain. Once you get that file onto another machine that can read and identify the supported fields, then that property data will be seen.

Thank you for the link for the JpegSnoop tool. It looks interesting, but way more data there than I need. IrfanView displays all the data I want - except for the Histogram, that's pretty interesting. Thanks again.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

I got 98SE so some of the added things I will not see in the Window Explorer.
Now I have but only on a couple of images used JPG Cleaner to clean up data put there by other programs that is not part of the image.


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

hewee said:


> I got 98SE so some of the added things I will not see in the Window Explorer.
> Now I have but only on a couple of images used JPG Cleaner to clean up data put there by other programs that is not part of the image.


and that is why I said "Assuming there was nothing running on the Win98 (FAT32) machine to strip that data off, the fields remain."

Sure, removing the unneeded data fields from a JPG (or any file type) will reduce the file size, without affecting the actual picture. But I don't see much benefit usually, since those unneeded data fields may total a few hundred bytes, perhaps even (in extreme cases) a few thousand bytes. But when many pictures are typically in the order of hundreds of thousands of bytes, or even megabytes, I don't want to waste my time. I have gigabytes of crap on my drives  I am not going to worry about a few megabytes here or there.

I understand that optimizing pictures to the smallest file size is for the benefit of people who still connect with dial-up modems, but sorry, those people are becoming fewer and fewer (perhaps they're dying off, waiting for their downloads ).


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

hewee said:


> I got 98SE so some of the added things I will not see in the Window Explorer.


All this Win98 stuff is offpoint for this thread, anyway. The original starting message was in regards to the Comments column in Windows Explorer. Which, as has been brought up at least a couple times, I would say that *Ziggy1* can't be using Win98. Can he.  

At least the mention of all this might be educational to those people who have not yet upgraded. 
("why should I get rid of Win98 when it is working fine?")
(Other than the fact that Win98 is a dying OS, with no more support from MS, and that there are many operational advantages to the newer OS'es and file systems.)


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

ChuckeE/moper

If you look further back to my post 7, that by reading the file in Notepad, you can see the text that is added using the properties/summary in Windows are written to the file. My guess is that it uses the space separation between fields and the Order in which they appear. But if one is omitted then the next on fills the gap...There are special characters for the fields I guess.

I attached a small image file that I added IPTC information to from Irfanview. I entered the name of the field preceded by IRF_ You can also see the Windows text ( as noted in Post 7) and is not read by Irfanview (as you noted).

* it looks different depending on the text editor you use (wordpad vs Notpad)


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

Ziggy1 said:


> If you look further back to my post 7, that by reading the file in Notepad, you can see the text that is added using the properties/summary in Windows are written to the file.


Sorry *Ziggy1* I got crossed up as to what the original point of what this thread was about, and in answering other questions and points brought up by others.

You are quite right in that the Windows Properties, like Comments, and all the EXIF and the IPTC data is written inside the file.

But while you could observe that data, somewhat, by using text editors, such as Notepad and WordPad, don't even consider trying to modify it with them. The reason is that, for one thing, there are many non-text characters that either display as weird boxes, or some of the characters will not display at all.

Then if you go to save the file, some text editors may truncate (shorten) the file when it gets to a Ctrl-Z (ASCII 26) character. Many other characters will not be handled correctly at all. The basic viewing with those text editors is possibly acceptable, just to see the presence, and what sequence is, of those tags you place in a file ... but leave it at that.

If you want to just observe the characters, you could just as easily use the Hex viewer within IrfanView. At least with that viewer you will see the hex codes of those otherwise non-identifiable "weird" characters.



Ziggy1 said:


> My guess is that it uses the space separation between fields and the Order in which they appear. But if one is omitted then the next on{e} fills the gap...There are special characters for the fields I guess.


The "spaces" you observe with one or both of the text editors you've mentioned, are probably not spaces at all. Like I said, above, some characters do not display at all. What you may think of as a space is probably a Hex character absolutely needed and of some particular value absolutely needed, to make the following characters and fields identifiable and readable. Changing those "blanks" or changing the viewable characters between the blanks may possible corrupt the file.

It really all depends upon format of the file type. There are rules as to what those "in-between" characters must be. Many times it will be a value of the length of the following field. For example, at least one (or maybe two) of those characters may be used to specify the length of the following field. If only one character (byte) is used, then the field will be limited to about 255 characters (since one byte can hold a value from 0 to 255). If two bytes are used, then the field will probably be limited to 65,535 characters. (And the display of those hex characters may actually appear as a real ASCII viewable characters (like Hex 30 and Hex 5A appear as 0Z "zero capital Z" but have nothing to do with Oz )

Then there might be one byte of 'null' (Hex 00) used for specifying the end of that field. Or perhaps one byte might be used to specify what type of data the following field is. But all that, whatever the format is, is specified by the Standards group that defined the file format.
Really, really, really, don't try to guess - all that can easily be researched - if you want to know. And again, I stress, if you want to edit (to play or learn) DO NOT use a text editor, use some sort of Hex editor.

So far, no one here has yet mentioned a single editor to modify both the Windows file system Comments property and the EXIF and IPTC data. I don't know of one either. But it would seem to me that there could be one 'out there' somewhere. Keep looking.


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

Thanks ChuckE, I was just viewing the file in the text editor to get an understanding...I would not try to edit it like that, I have a few different Editors that will show me those characters. Thanks for the explanation.

I think I will focus on the IPTC standard, I did a lot of searching and it is apparent there is not a consistent standard, but IPTC is mentioned alot (as slipe mentioned ).

If I find one that really does what I want I will post it here.


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

Chucke, you are so right about XP's summary being written to the jpg. I knew that the Summary tab of a .txt file, which looks the same, is written to the file system in the form of an alternate data stream. I assumed a jpg would be the same. And I always tell myself, don't assume anything.
Anyhow, my point was, why use a comment that is only visible in Windows XP. Use the 'Comment' from an editing program. They are much more universal.

moper


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

FYI that image I posted (post 29) is supposed to be a Jpg but if you save it from IE it might be a .bmp. You can save the text file and then change the extension back to a .jpg there you can see the IPTC descriptions I put in.


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

No problem. Earlier I had noticed that your image (in post #29), when I used the IE "Save Picture As" command, did get saved as a .BMP. But when I opened the file with IrfanView, it properly identified the file as a .JPG and asked if I wanted the extension to be correctly renamed. (With IrfanView, whether you choose to have the file correctly renamed, or not, the file will still be opened.)

Using the IE command "Save Target As" will have the correct filename extension, .JPG.

In fact, even downloading the "images.txt" file you also provided, if you try to open that file with IrfanView, it will also be correctly identified as a .JPG file, and IV will ask to rename it.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

It funny ChuckE with myway email they screw around so much with attachment you can have more then one image in the email and everyone has the very same name. When I go to save any I have to give them a name and the right file type has to be added to the name but it has it listed as a "images.txt". I have forgotten sometimes to add the .jpg to the name so it saves the images as a text file.
With ACDsee viewer and guess other programs I can go to the option and pick view all file types and click on the "images.txt" and see the image still.


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## ChuckE (Aug 30, 2004)

*hewee* just save the image files in one location, with separate names of course, regardless of the extension, or even without an extension. Then, while looking at the files in your Windows Explorer, just drag and drop the files into an open IrfanView window. IrfanView will know how to properly rename the extensions.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Thanks ChuckE I never knew that IrfanView would know how to properly rename the extensions. I think that is great because I know a couple times I had saved the file to later when viewing the images wonder where the image went because I had not looked and seen that it was saved as a .txt file and my default setting in acd will not show it so I have to redownload the image if it's still in the email account or guess what file type it was.


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## moper (Feb 14, 2004)

ChuckE, since you have mentioned it, I noticed months ago that when I use the 'save picture as', it will only offer untitled bmp, IF the photo is stored on the Techguy server. Ones that are stored off site(Imageshack, etc), will save as jpg with the real name.
I have 3 computers, XP sp2, XP sp1, 98. Each one has a different version of IE. The 98 still uses IE5.5. They all do the same, every time. Been through all the fixes. I'm convinced it has something to do with these servers.

Just hit Refresh(F5) on the photo before saving and the real name jpg will be offered for download.

Any ideas???


moper


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## Ziggy1 (Jun 18, 2002)

I think it is the browser, when I did the same thing with firefox, it only had .jpg as the option to save.


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