# Outdoor cameras for nighttime 'seeing'....recommedations?



## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

i am looking to set up an outdoor security camera,especially one that can "see" in the dark. I bought a low priced blackandwhite 15" monitor already(clearanced at RShack).

any recommendations? i am thinking a WIRED outdoor security camera will capture a better picture than a WIRE-LESS outdoor security camera. however WIRE-LESS is big prefrence because of ease of use. Eventually i will be going to a colored monitor so buying a color security camera would not be wasting $$


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## Knotbored (Jun 5, 2004)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91851

This is an inexpensive way to get started. 300 pixel camera with night vision for $50
I don't know anything about the camera but have many shop tools from dealer Harborfreight and think the prices are great.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

First off, for outdoor use at night, you're going to need one with fairly powerful IR lamps to illuminate the scene. Next, under IR illumination, the pictures are always B/W, you won't see color. What kind of area are you trying to cover with this camera? Personally, I'd probably spend the money on better lighting.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

What am i using it for? i moved into a low crime area several years ago that has now turned into a high crime area....especially petty crime,vandalism crime. Criminals are getting bold such as breaking into vehicles in lighted areas,even unscrewing motion dector lights when they go off. i PERSONNALY want to catch the criminals in the act 

The coverage area is not too large, 'typical' driveway,front lawn area.

About a camera that can 'see' good in the dark, i am not too concern with having a color camera, Black and white will do fine. "IR technology" is a new concept to me. I think i might go with the one Knotbored found.--THAT is not etched in stone if someone has another recommendation.

Also say i have two equally powerful IR cameras, one wireless,the other wired. Will the picture quality be the same on a monitor or do you suppose the wireless IR camera does not give as good as picture as the IR wired camera


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## DoubleHelix (Dec 10, 2004)

If I lived in a high-crime area, I'd install an actual security system. I wouldn't be interested in catching anyone in the act but instead in preventing the crime to begin with. I'd also install some motion-sensing flood lights that illuminate the place like a Christmas tree if anyone tried to tiptoe up to the house in the middle of the night.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Well, that camera has the IR LED's around the face, but I suspect it's range will be limited. Also, the resolution may leave something to be desired if you want to actually identify the criminals using the video.


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

IR illumination provided by the camera (I have 4 remote cameras here, 3 wired one wireless) is useless past about 12 feet or so.

Colour cameras are not usually as good at low-light operation as B/W.

Wireless are next to useless here as the 2.4 GHz spectrum is quite busy, hence the range is only about 30' before it breaks up. Too many cordless phones, WiFi and microwave ovens.

To illuminate the area you want, you will need to buy or make IR LED floodlights.


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## Lynn8518 (Jun 2, 2007)

If you're looking for something that is a little more low key than a complete security system, you could go with a Sony camcorder. They have hard drive camcorders that will hold around 30+ hours on a lower quality mode. However, it would be a 0 lux rating when in night mode. The picture would look a little green because it is literally like night vision goggles. Just another idea for you.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Let me guess, every day he gets his ladder out and climbs up to retrieve the day's video?


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## bdimag (Apr 8, 2001)

DoubleHelix said:


> If I lived in a high-crime area, I'd install an actual security system. I wouldn't be interested in catching anyone in the act but instead in preventing the crime to begin with. I'd also install some motion-sensing flood lights that illuminate the place like a Christmas tree if anyone tried to tiptoe up to the house in the middle of the night.


he still said they're getting so bold as to do the crime in lighted areas, and that theyll just unscrew the bults (or break em even - im sure)... also - one thing they like to do is "smash and grab" - so who cares if theres any light - cause they're already "out"



Lynn8518 said:


> If you're looking for something that is a little more low key than a complete security system, you could go with a Sony camcorder. They have hard drive camcorders that will hold around 30+ hours on a lower quality mode. However, it would be a 0 lux rating when in night mode. The picture would look a little green because it is literally like night vision goggles. Just another idea for you.


lol I can just imagine somebody setting up a camcorder on a stand at their front window.. then some punk criminal comes up for the car, looks in the window and is like "HEY!"... break the window - and another free camcorder!


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

kiwiguy said:


> IR illumination provided by the camera (I have 4 remote cameras here, 3 wired one wireless) is useless past about 12 feet or so.
> Colour cameras are not usually as good at low-light operation as B/W.
> Wireless are next to useless here as the 2.4 GHz spectrum is quite busy, hence the range is only about 30' before it breaks up. Too many cordless phones, WiFi and microwave ovens.To illuminate the area you want, you will need to buy or make IR LED floodlights.


exactly the info i was looking for, real experience with security lighting. i was wondering if 2.4 or 900 would have trouble transmitting because of telephones ,so forth. Also i have been wondering if BW would have advantages over color too. Many of the BW security cameras seem to be clearancing out at stores


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

Lynn8518 said:


> If you're looking for something that is a little more low key than a complete security system, you could go with a Sony camcorder. They have hard drive camcorders that will hold around 30+ hours on a lower quality mode. Just another idea for you.


i will look into tthat idea


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

bdimag said:


> he still said they're getting so bold as to do the crime in lighted areas, and that theyll just unscrew the bults (or break em even - im sure)... also - one thing they like to do is "smash and grab" - so who cares if theres any light - cause they're already "out".
> lol I can just imagine somebody setting up a camcorder on a stand at their front window.. then some punk criminal comes up for the car, looks in the window and is like "HEY!"... break the window - and another free camcorder!


i live for the day i catch a criminal or vandal on my property lol! they will leave with something broken


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

puter hater is not here much anymore but she got one a frys that was a system and you had a buy a hard drive too or the model she got you did. But it is about the size of a VCR and records everything on the hard drive. Then you can set it up to work the way you want to and how it records and how long and when it records. Have it so it picks up something on the camera so it starts to record. I forget what it cost but it worked good because I seen it when I went to LA and was with her when she got it. Not sure if she got another better night time camera or not.
But she had it or was going to have it so she could also be a work and see thing on the camera on her laptop.
So you may want to PM puter hater.


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

sharky said:


> i live for the day i catch a criminal or vandal on my property lol! they will leave with something broken


You're one of those guys?


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

JohnWill said:


> You're one of those guys?
> 
> As a law abiding citizen with no criminal record,not even a speeding ticket, i got one weakness: Vandals and criminals caught on my property will leave feet first,no excuses-no age discrimination


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

hewee said:


> puter hater is not here much anymore but she got one a frys that was a system and you had a buy a hard drive too or the model she got you did. But it is about the size of a VCR and records everything on the hard drive....truncated..


I kinda have been looking into that type of device. First Alert came out with something like that last month.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

There are real good ones also out there too but your looking at around $1000.00. Went to a security place but she did not get anything there because of the high cost but it was good to see what all types of systems are around and to see the cameras that were all hooked up to monitors. So she went to Frys and got the system and a hard drive to put in it. I forget but think it was about $500.00 or so total. 

Maybe going to a security place to look around will help you out even if you go someplace else to buy because your be able to see what all is out there and learn some things.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

i have seen some wireless cameras with night vision with 48 LEDs,most cameras have about 11. I assume strongly the more LEDs, the better camera to use in darkness.

A Sharp camera


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

The one that puter hater order and not the one that came with the system she got at fry's was a wireless color one that was nice. Don't remember how many lights it had but you could see things and it looked good. Now just how good at night seeing how she had not yet hooked it up in one place I don't know just how far you could see but when we carry it around outside it sure worked good seeing things close up. 
I just know it was a lot better then what came with her system but don't know where she got because she order it online.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

kiwiguy said:


> IR illumination provided by the camera is useless past about 12 feet or so.Colour cameras are not usually as good at low-light operation as B/W.
> Wireless are next to useless here as the 2.4 GHz spectrum is quite busy, hence the range is only about 30' before it breaks up. Too many cordless phones, WiFi and microwave ovens...truncated...


I bought a 2.4 non-name brand wireless BW camera on clearance for $30. The static from neighborhood cordless phones,etc., did indeed scrambled the video picture.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

Knotbored said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91851
> This is an inexpensive way to get started. 300 pixel camera with night vision for $50
> I don't know anything about the camera but have many shop tools from dealer Harborfreight and think the prices are great.


They have some interesting items at low prices. I just might try the camera you mentinoned.


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## hewee (Oct 26, 2001)

Yea a wired system is best. Plus on some of the things the old saying still goes and you get what you pay for. 
The Harborfreight price went down to $39.99

I think they are good at taking things back too. We have there stores around here too.
Retail Stores

Also WEATHERPROOF BLACK AND WHITE SECURITY CAMERA WITH NIGHT VISION. $29.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47546


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## Soundy (Feb 17, 2006)

Time for a reality check from someone in the CCTV business: those $30 cameras are shyte. You've heard it again and again, "you get what you pay for," and nowhere is it more true that with surveillance video. A cheap-*** camera will give you a cheap-*** image... a cheap-*** DVR will give you cheap-*** resolution with shyte resolution and hideous compression, and you'll end up with something with the image quality of a 1978 Pong game.

Now if all you want to see is blobs and shadows of someone moving around, or pick up video in bright daylight, one of those $400 all-in-one Costco packages with four cameras and a video recorder will do you just fine, but if you want to actually bust someone, especially someone moving around in the dark, you're probably gonna find yourself SOL.

IR cameras don't "see in the dark" like you're used to seeing in the movies - they're B&W cameras with some enhanced IR sensitivity, and they still need their subject to be lit up by something, whether a flood light, or a bunch of IR LEDs. Problem with the LEDs is that they have very short throw - compare an LED flashlight to one with a halogen or krypton bulb that focuses its beam properly.

Ultimately, it comes down to this: if you REALLY want to see something under those conditions, you just can't beat a big-*** floodlight on your subject... and if you have a floodlight snap on with a motion sensor, you stand just as good a chance of the subject simply taking off. Better to have the guy bolt, than allow him to complete his mischief and then HOPE to catch any kind of useful image off a camera, especially a cheap camera. 

If you really want to cover the bases, buy a DECENT camera, AND set up the floodlight on the area you want to record. Wireless sounds like a nice idea, but again, to get anything decent, you're looking at spending an inordinate amount for a simple home setup. And you're generally still going to have to provide power to the camera, so it's not going to be ENTIRELY wireless unless you want to be changing batteries regularly.


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## digimime (Jun 24, 2005)

Are you interested in keeping thieves out of the house? Wanna low tech, inexpensive solution? I had a Door Club http://www.securityworld.com/pc-1587-123-the-door-club-1-pack.aspxinfor my single entrance townhouse and I'd do it again even with multiple doors.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

First of all thanks for the recommendations. As i might have mentioned earlier i bought(then returned) a black and white wireless camera and monitor,scrappy picture in daylight,pitch black picture in evening. (Cost $90 at Kmart)

I bought the item below,FirstAlert corded camera(with night vision 8 leds)and monitor and motion detector for $50. I am going "to start" with this camera to see how good(or how bad) a cheap camera with 8 leds does with night time vision. I dont expect much.

For all your recommendations,i will keep those in mind if this camera was a waste of time. So far dayvision is very good on the montior.










ITS A NO GO......this wireless camera with 'night vision and 8 LEDS' sees nothing in the darkness...the picture was like someone placed a black pillow over the camera lens. Now that i look at it, the picture in the dark looks like the screen picture in the photo above lol!


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## n2gun (Mar 3, 2000)

Has anyone thought about adding a second bank of LED's?? Could probably even build it yourself to add night light.


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## Soundy (Feb 17, 2006)

Sure, you can even get pre-made "IR illuminators" with banks of IR LEDs in a weatherproof housing.

Problem is, the range is still very limited, a cheap camera will still have poor low-light performance, and with any camera it will still only be B&W.

Once again, at that point, you're better to just put a floodlight on a motion sensor: you'll get a better image, and nine times out of ten, just the light coming on will scare the prowler away.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

n2gun said:


> Has anyone thought about adding a second bank of LED's?? Could probably even build it yourself to add night light.


i saw one $50-ish camera online with 48 leds. it was a Sharp but the place i would be buying it from was in HongKong,so i did really trust the site. I got a feeling the objective of LEDs are to be used with some lighting in a dark area,not to be used in total darkness.


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## sharky (Jul 9, 2001)

If anyone has ever looked though night vision goggles, you know how good they are to see in total darkness. I bet some day one will be able to buy a 'night vision goggle' type of camera and monitor for under $50.

Here is an example i found online of looking into total darkness with a night vision goggle:


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## Soundy (Feb 17, 2006)

sharky said:


> i saw one $50-ish camera online with 48 leds. it was a Sharp but the place i would be buying it from was in HongKong,so i did really trust the site. I got a feeling the objective of LEDs are to be used with some lighting in a dark area,not to be used in total darkness.


No, the LEDs will actually work in complete darkness - they illuminate with IR, not visible light, so you won't see them; they don't provide a visible deterrent the way a good floodlight will. In most cameras, they'll only come on when ambient light drops below a certain level, and if it's a day/night camera, it will switch from color to B&W mode.


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