# Ubuntu install



## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I have the Ubuntu CD. If I click on Install where does it install and what happens to Windows?


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## CouchMaster (May 26, 2003)

To install as a dual boot with windows you need a seperate partition to put it on - now you can use the partitioning tool on the Linux CD, or use an after market utility like partition magic. If you want to keep Windows just be careful. Linux will shrink the windows partition and make room for itself - I do it all of the time --- but it will use all of the HD if you make a mistake.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

how much space do I need for Ubuntu?I have 40 GB free space. Does the linux partitioning tool allow me to select the size of the partition?


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## CouchMaster (May 26, 2003)

Yes, the partitioning utility will let you re-size the free space to make a place for Linux. You might want to try 5 or 6 gigs - if you formatted the rest of the free space to FAT32 Linux and Windows both could read and write to it (I'm assuming a NTFS for Windows presently) I just installed ELive on a HD of mine and it took me 3 tries with the partitioning tool (GParted) to get it right. I've never missed with the SuSE partitioning utility but it's getting too bloated for me these days. Anyway, if you have never used it before find a way to practice first.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

I second Couchmaster. Diving into this without prior experience is asking for trouble. Do you have an old HDD laying around you could practice with?

Take a look at aysiu's website. He's spent quite a bit of effort building graphical guides to installing. Start with "Introduction". If you're feeling overwhelmed by the time you get to "Install Desktop CD Ubuntu" then that's a good indication that you might need to research this a little more.
Herman's website is another good source of graphical guides. Both of these guys are Ubuntu enthusiasts who put a lot of time and effort into their guides. I did my first dual-boot (with the Breezy text-based CD, back before there was a LiveCD available) using Herman's "Ubuntu + NTFS" guide. I didn't know what I was doing, just carefully followed his steps and it all worked out. However, the Windows install was fresh, with absolutely no valuable data on it, so the worst that coulda happened was having to start over!
If you have broadband, I'd suggest downloading the GParted LiveCD. This can be done on a Windows PC. Download the CD version, burn to a CD. The end result is a CD that will boot your PC and gives you a great tool for setting up partitions before you dive in with the Ubuntu CD. Actually, the Ubuntu LiveCD's partitioner _is_ the GParted partitioner, but it's a stripped down version. 
Defrag the dickens out of your Windows partition, make sure the data is moved over to the left, then reboot, drop in your GParted LiveCD, make a primary partition, formatted as ext3, over on the right side of the disc map. Apply the change, reboot, drop in the Ubuntu CD, follow whatever instructions you have. When you get to the partitioning step, click on manual partitioning and you'll see the same disc map you saw when you were in the GParted LiveCD. I found this to be very confidence-inspiring. Instead of more unknown territory, I could see the changes made previously had worked.

Don't proceed unless you have taken whatever steps you feel are necessary to completely rebuild your Windows data. The directions should work but people have ruined their Windows partitions.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Sounds like a true adventure.I am up for it.


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## fenderfreek (Mar 14, 2006)

Generally you can just resize Windows and install Linux alongside it - the Installer will help you do that. It's not terribly difficult either - sometimes it will complain if you don't defrag your Windows part. enough, but it's usually a cakewalk. You'll want about 6 gigs minimum, to give you some room to play a bit, or if you can spare it, I always make 10 Gb partitions so that I can have total freedom to install pretty much any packages I want.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I am looking at the some screen shots at the GParted site. What is /dev/hda1? It also lists the same thing with different numbers. Is there something I could read to help me understand this? I assume dev stands for device and I am guessing the different numbers refer to different partitions.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

/dev = device (a device can be a hard drive, optical drive, USB drive, etc.)
/hda = your first PATA hard drive
1 = first partition on that drive

/dev/hda2 would be the second partition.

/dev/hdb1 would be the first partition on a second hard drive

You'll notice that if you just let Ubuntu install to an entire drive, it'll place the linuxswap partition way out there at "hda5", which seems weird at first but it makes sense. An extended partition is created for swap, and partitions 2, 3, and 4 are left unassigned in case you want to create more primary partitions.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

by the way is it pronounced oobuntu or youbuntu?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

One more question. I have a Dell Wireless 1390 WLAN Mini-Card. will I still be able to go wireless with this?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

I've heard oohbuntoo and ooboontoo. Wish I knew which it's supposed to be.

I don't know about the wireless. Try it out and tell us how it goes! My impression is that Broadcom can be ugly, Intel is the easiest. Don't know who makes the "Dell" wireless card.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Broadcom which is not good news for me. I'll Keep you posted


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

You'll probly be looking for instructions on ndiswrapper. I hear this term all the time. Don't know anything about it because haven't had to deal with wireless yet, but it works for a lot of people.
For instance, here's a How-To on the Broadcom 4318. You've gotta find out exactly which one you've got cause the instructions vary.

Here's one for the 4306.

Stephen, I've got a question for you or anybody else passing by. Aren't the little wireless cards inside of laptops fairly easy to get at? I remember reading a MaximumPC article a few months back that described building a lappy. They just popped the card in thru the back. It looked like there were 2 miniscule wires that you would not want to break, but other than that didn't look bad. If this gets too deep, I wonder how expensive it would be to just swap the Broadcom for an Intel wireless card? In Windows you'd probly have to go thru the hassle of loading different drivers, but I'll bet Ubuntu would recognize the card on the reboot...

OK, found it. Pages 46 & 48 of the April 2006 MaximumPC. They show how to plug in an Intel 2915ABG Mini PCI WiFi card. Newegg doesn't have the Intel 2915ABG in stock right now. Take a look also at Intel's product page. Looks like the newest version, the 3945, won't fit into the same slot as the 2915. Your Dell's card probly the same shape as the 2915.

As I said before, I don't know anything about this so don't want to lead you down the wrong path, but this certainly looks like an option to me if the Broadcom doesn't come around with ndiswrapper...

EDIT: I read the MaximumPC article more closely. The WiFi card socket is buried underneath the keyboard on the lappy they built. Don't know where Dell places theirs.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I'll look into it removing the keyboard is not a big deal. I have done it on two laptops I have owned. Is the MaximumPC article online? Thanks for the tips I will check into the ndiswrapper.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Their website has parts of the April 2006 issue archived, but I couldn't find the laptop guide.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

The mini card is under the keyboard. the model of mine is 4311 I believe.


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## fenderfreek (Mar 14, 2006)

If you're going to replace the Mini-PCI(shudder) it's usually located under the keyboard, like you noted, and has a set of wires that go to the mobo, either for power or antenna, I presume. If you're going to spend that kind of cheddar, you can save a bit of trouble and go with a supported PC Card or USB one.
</mytwocents>


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

The new Mini-PCI is only $32. and it is not that hard to replace. I haven't even been able to connect to the internet with the cable attached to my computer let alone wireless. I just need to get connected before i try the next step.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Stephen - 
You say you haven't been able to go online even when you have a CAT cable physically plugged in? What are your symptoms? Have you tried disabling IVP6?
Have you gone into Networking, enabled your wired ethernet device, tried pinging anything?

Wireless can be tricky, but from what I've read Ubuntu can detect just about any standard ethernet device. Did you try plugging directly into the modem or are you behind 2 devices (modem/router)? 

The "disable IPV6" thing is relatively simple. If it wasn't simple I wouldn't know about it. Anyway, over at a friend's house the only thing that worked in Firefox was clicking on the Ubuntu bookmarks that were already pre-loaded into the Firefox Bookmarks or Quick Links or whatever it was. Synaptic worked once or twice but really slow. Tell me if either of those symptoms rings a bell, OK?


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## fenderfreek (Mar 14, 2006)

Yeah, that indicates bigger problem for sure. Also, what kind of internet service do you have that you are trying to run this on? If it's DSL that uses PPPoE, then some extra configuration is in order. I'm just throwing that out there because I've seen that quite a bit lately, and it usually is the cause of the problem with wired ethernets.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

It is Verizon DSL and it does use PPoE. One problem is I have it installed on an old hard drive from my son's computer and I only get to paly with it early in the morning. Although tomorrow looks good for having quite a bit of time with it. Is there a good "how to" site for Ubuntu? I go to the forum but that is time consuming to read all the threads to see if the problem is the same as mine. I need someplace I can look up how to connect whatever it is I am trying to do. Thanks for the help


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## fenderfreek (Mar 14, 2006)

To be honest, I've never had a problem that I couldn't solve with Google. I just run a search or two, usually refining or tweaking the terms a bit, and it's usually no time before I've got exactly what I want. I haven't found any single definitive online resource, but if you go to your local B&N or Borders bookstore, there are several good books on Ubuntu. I have one called "Ubuntu Hacks" which is actually a collection of awesome tips and tricks to tweak, configure, and maximize the useability of Ubuntu. There is also an Official Ubuntu Book, if you're just interested in learning the basics of using, configuring and troubleshooting the OS.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

If you were going to buy just one of them which one would you reccommend? The descriptions of each on Amazon makes them both seem worthwhile.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

If you're starting from ground zero with Ubuntu, The Official Ubuntu Book is good. I read thru it all the time. I like Keir Thomas' "Beginning Ubuntu" book.
Stephen, have you tried disabling IPV6 yet?
What I want you to do is plug your Ubuntu PC directly into the Verizon modem. No routers in between. Start the PC up, and follow these directions to disable IPV6. Reboot and see if that gets you online, OK?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

that didn't get me online


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

OK, anything here help?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkDevices

You know, the wired etherne oughta work. Since it's mobile, can you go to a neighbor's house and try their connection? Somebody with broadband and a different modem/router. I'm sure there are smarter ways to pursue this...


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Ok we have to take a time out here. The Ubuntu we are working on is one I installed on an old hard drive for my son's computer. Now that I have figured out how to change the boot order I figured I could install Ubuntu on my computer. Well there are a few problems here I need to fix before we continue with the connection problem. Using the live CD I downloaded, the same one I used on the previous install, when I got to the partitioning choices window there were three:
Erase entire disk
Use largest free space
Manually edit partition table.
I selected the second one. I clicked on continue and an error message popped up saying:"Failed to partition selected disk" I clicked ok on that and the next window was the Ubuntu will now install on selected disk box. I clicked continue and another error message popped up. This one said: "No Root file system". I clicked ok on that and it seemed to be starting to install. That is when I cancelled, not knowing what was actually going to happen and not wanting Windows wiped out.
I then downloaded the live cd file again and tried installing from it but I got exactly the same messages.
I seem to remember on the first install I was able to choose the size of the partition I wanted for Ubuntu but I was not given that option. What is going on here?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Stephen - 
Need to get a look at your disk. Can you run the UbuntuLiveCD, bring up the terminal, and type in

```
sudo fdisk -l
```
? Copy/paste the results and post.

Also, in the UbuntuLiveCD environment, go to System>Administration>Gnome Partition Mgr and take a look at the disk map it brings up. I suspect you have Windows data or a recovery partition way over at the far right of the disk.

You might have better results if you use the "manually partition" route instead of use largest free space when getting ready to install. Take a look at aysiu's guide. You'll probably still have questions, because it's kinda hard to understand the stuff about mount points until you've done it a few times. Write if you have questions.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

obviously I won't be able to copy and paste it but I will do my best to convey what it says. I don't get the resize IDE master option when I try to install it. I did when I installed it in the other computer. Why don't I get that option on this computer?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

here is what fdisk said
Disk /dev/sda: 58.5 GB
Units=cylinders of 16065 * 512=8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks ID System
/dev/sda1 1 5 40131 de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 6 6689 53689230 7 HPFS/NTFS 
/dev/sda3 6690 7112 3397747 db CP/M /CTOS/ ...


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

OK, Stephen -
Don't lose track of that fdisk -l. That says a lot, I just don't know what it's saying 

There are a couple of weird things that don't necessarily mean you can't install Linux, they just mean we gotta figure out what exactly is going on before proceeding further.

I've been hanging around Linux forums for over a year now, and have never seen

/dev/sda1 1 5 40131 de Dell Utility

before, nor have I seen

/dev/sda3 6690 7112 3397747 db CP/M /CTOS/ ...

Lots and lots of people dual-boot Dells so I think the thing to do is widen your net...if nobody here can help you I'd search over at the main Ubuntu Forums. If doing a search brings up nothing, start a thread explaining what the PC is, what you're trying to do (dual boot, correct?), paste in your fdisk -l, and ask for some help from fellow Dell users.

I can give you a little bit of clarification on your fdisk -l, but not much. Those numbers, such as "6689" in the second line, are physical blocks on your HDD. In other words, block "1" is an real true place, not some virtual description. It's the first block of data on your HDD.

So, the front of your HDD is filled up with "de Dell Utility", whatever the heck that is. The second partition on your HDD, sda2, is the Windows install, spanning blocks 6689 to 53689230. Look at sda3. According to fdisk -l, that's the third partition on your HDD. But its position is _inside_ sda2, your second partition. I don't know why there are 3 groups of blocks within the description instead of 2, and I don't know what "db CP/M/CTOS ..." means. But some people do, and you just gotta find 'em. At least you have something to show them, and that's better than just posting with "I don't know what's wrong" if you know what I mean.

I'm going to toss out a guess here. It's just a guess.

There's something called the master boot record (MBR), a little chunk of data at the very beginning of the HDD. The Windows OS writes the MBR. In a nutshell, the MBR tells the PC what to do next to boot up Windows. If the MBR gets corrupted, Windows won't start. Fortunately, fixing the MBR isn't difficult if you have a genuine Windows CD.

When you dual-boot, GRUB (a part of the Ubuntu OS) finds the MBR and modifies it so that (1) Windows still works and (2) you will see the screen asking which OS to start when you turn on the PC. GRUB is expecting to find the MBR at (or near) block 1. If it's there, it's hidden inside "de Dell utility" so things go sideways from there.

That's my guess. Could be all wrong. One thing I know is you should be able to find some Dell owners who can tell you what to do.

EDIT: I did a search over at the Ubuntu Forums for "fdisk -l dell utility" and got numerous hits. Only been looking for a coupla minutes and saw some disk -l's like yours...


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

thanks for the reply I have posted the same question in the Ubuntu forum but I didn't include the fdisk-l info. I'll do that now


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

One of the good things about the Ubuntu Forums is there are so many people there. That's also one of the bad things. At a busy time of day your post may get pushed off the first page in minutes.

I'm crossing my fingers for you

Where did you post? Absolute Beginner, Install, Hardware and Laptop?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

absolut beginners and by now it is probably on page 6


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Yeah, seven replies so far and most of them thread hijackers. Frustrating how random it can be. You don't have as many eyeballs here at TSG, but not so hectic either
EDIT: If your post sinks into oblivion by tomorrow, I'd try a new thread with a very specific title. Something like "Dell XX fdisk -l questions", include your fdisk -l in the first post, describe short and sweet what you're doing (dual boot, etc.). Try posting late in the evening your time or early morning. Sometimes you'll catch good replies because of stateside Ubuntu geeks suffering from insomnia.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

You've got a working Ubuntu LiveCD, right? Do you have a thumb drive?

I've got an idea I'd like to run by you. Won't solve the problem all by itself, but it'd be educational for you and me and might get someone's attention.

Can you please plug in the thumb drive, put the LiveCD in the tray, and restart the PC. Click on "Start or Install Ubuntu" when you get the splash screen. When you get to the desktop, go to System>Administration>Gnome Partition Editor. Click on it. You'll get a map of your partitions.

With the partition map on the screen, please go to Applications>Accessories>Take Screenshot. When the "Save Screenshot" window comes up, save the screenshot to desktop. Minimize Gnome Partition Editor, double left click on the screenshot icon that's setting on your desktop. Go to File>Save As, name it whatever you want but don't forget to type ".png" (that's "dot pee en gee") at the end or you'll get an error message. In "Save in folder", click on the up/down arrow and scroll to your thumb drive. Mine was right there in the list, between FIle System and Floppy Drive. Hopefully yours will too. Set the thumb drive as the destination and Save.

Whoo hoo. You now have a picture of your partitions, and the descriptions just below the partition map. Can you please paste that .png directly into a post or if that doesn't work attach it. You know how a picture's worth a thousand words. If nobody here can help you, a new thread with your picture at the Ubuntu Forums is more likely to get a response.

I'm tempted to just recommend that you try to build a new partition with the Gnome Partitioning Tool, but want to see the map first. It's easy to be cavalier with someone else's hard drive! 

EDIT: You know about properly removing a thumb drive, don't you? Find the drive in "Computer", click on it, and "Eject". You'll see a window pop up real quick saying something about "Writing data". When that's done you can remove the thumb drive.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I don't have a thumb drive but I do ave a USB external hard drive. Can I save the .png file to that?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Can't see why not. I'm just looking for something you can use to save that partition map and then get that map over to a different PC or your Windows partition - whatever it is that's capable of posting to this forum.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I'll give it a shot


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Take a look at the tail end of this thread
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=313061
I also PM'ed him, with a link to this thread. Maybe he'll offer some useful info


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Although the USB hard drive showed up when I tried to save the screenshot but I got an acces denied message so although it isn't a picture and isn't close to 1000 words here is what it showed:

Partition File System Size Used Unused Flags
/dev/sda1 fat16 39.19 MB 7.49 MB 31.71MB
/dev/sda2 ntfs 51.20 GB 9.32 GB 41.88 GB boot
/dev/sad3 fat32 3.24 GB 2.80 GB 453.52 MB
unallocated unallocated 7.84MB .... ...

It never comes out spaced right after I post it so it will take a bit of scrutiny to see it but it is all there.
btwI have downloaded and burned G Parted 0.3.2 and am ready to go


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I couldn't save the screen shot to my UBS drive but here is what it said. The spacing will probably be messed up. I tried to line the columns up but when I post it it takes ot the spaces. Also I have downloaded and burned G Parted and am ready to go with it.

Partition File System Size Used Unused Flags
/dev/sda1 fat 16 39.19 MB 7.49 MB 31.71 MB
/dev/sda2 ntfs 51.20 GB 9.32 GB 41.88 GB boot
/dev/sda3 fat32 3.24 GB 2.80GB 453.52 MB
unallocated unallocated 7.84 MB .... ....


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I think the Dell utility has something to do with how Dell restores the OS if it goes south. perhaps I should just remove it since I wouldn't use Dell's restore anyway. But if the MBR is in there then i would be in a fine mess wouldn't I? Of course I could make an image and then just see what happens if I remove it. All three prtitions shown are primar partitions. What does this mean, in the grand scheme of things?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

I PM'ed victorbrca from the Ubuntu Forum thread and asked him for details. He wrote

"I used the live CD to partition and install. Had not trouble other than figure out how to organize my partitions.
Once installed, Ubuntu restarted and the OS option screen was presented. Windows was working fine.."

Not very detailed, but it doesn't sound like things went horribly wrong either. I was really hoping for someone who has a Dell and has gone thru this before to help out here. 
If you can make an image of the existing Windows drive, that'd be great. Or at least save valuable data.
Can you scrounge up a spare hard drive and install the entire Ubuntu install (GRUB, /, swap) to it? That way we wouldn't be messing with your Windows data. I haven't tried it but have heard people say numerous times that if you keep tapping on F8 when the PC is booting you'll get an option of which drive to start from. Or you could go into BIOS and choose which drive to boot from but to me that would be annoying.

Too bad you couldn't transfer a picture of the partition map. Did that at least help your understanding some to see how the partitions are laid out?

Windows has to be in a primary partition in order to boot. You can have 4 primary partitions on a drive. Linux does not have to be on a primary partition to boot.

I notice in the info you typed out that sda2 is marked as boot. I'm sure the answer is simple, and that's why I was hoping we'd get some help from Dell owners, but I thought the MBR had to be at the very front of the HDD. We're seeing indications that it does not have to be at the front.

I don't know what to say. If you have a way to image the entire drive so that the worst result would be just a little more time spent reinstalling you data, then maybe the thing to do is defrag the Windows install several times, create a new primary partition from some empty space, and see what happens. At the last page of the Ubuntu installer, just before it's ready to commit, you'll see a tiny box in the middle of the page that says where GRUB is going to go. Make a note of that, OK? For the typical install, GRUB will go to "hd0". I don't know if GRUB is capable of looking for the MBR or just assumes that it's there. You understand what I'm saying, right? If GRUB is capable of recognizing the MBR, and your MBR is in sda2 along with the rest of the Windows installation, it might install to "hd0,1" which is the second partition on the first disc. I just don't know.

Please keep us informed, OK?

EDIT: Just had another thought. You say you wouldn't use the Dell recovery partitions. This is just another suggestion, I'm not saying you should act on it. If we knew that the other two partitions are just fluff, and you could make an exact copy of the real Windows installation, one option might be making that copy, wiping the entire drive, using GParted to create an NTFS partition and an ext3 partition, then copy Windows back to the NTFS partition. Then install Ubuntu to the ext3 partition. I don't know if that would even work but thought I'd mention it 

EDIT: Hey, just came across this thread 
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275728
Interesting twist on the 2 hard drives scenario - Ubuntu on the master, and Windows on the slave. Makes sense to me. This is in case you decide to run a 2nd HDD...


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I just had this conversation with a tell technical "expert:

Stephen, first partition os for the Dell diagnostic, which is used to check the system hardware. And second partition is for the Dell PC restore partition by using which you can restore the system to the factory settings as you got it first time from Dell.
4:56:13 PM You	so if I remove these windows will still work normally?
4:58:10 PM Sachin_01112735	Yes, but I recommend you to keep them in the system, because Diagnostic tool is required to check the system hardware and PC restore partition can be used when there is some issue occur in Windows XP and it require reinstallation then you can restore the system back to factory settings without any Windows disk.
4:59:48 PM You	if that were to happen I would rather format the disk and do a clean install.There are other tools availiable to check the system hardware, aren't there?
5:01:00 PM Sachin_01112735	You have to either use the Driver disk or the Dell diagnostic partition to check the system hardware.
5:02:10 PM You	which one is the diagnostic tool? the fat 16 partition?
5:02:30 PM Sachin_01112735	Yes, 39 MB partition.
5:03:02 PM You	
so I guess I can lose them?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Browsing the Dell folder on my C:/ drive I came across a utility that deleted the Dell Restore partition on the hard drive. Figuring if I did need to fix it I didn't need to restore all the crap Dell puts on it so I deleted it. Now my fdisk-l doesn't show the
/dev/sda3 6690 7112 3397747 db CP/M /CTOS/ 
anymore. I ran the Ubuntu disk and it seems like I will be able to go forward now. The dell Utility in /dev/sda1 is the diagnostic tool. it doesn't seem to be bothering anything so should I leave it alone?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi, Stephen -
I'm still worried about MBR. I wonder if you could chat with Dell again and see if someone can verify where the MBR is when the disc starts with their utility. Sometimes their techies are knowledgeable, mostly they're just reading from a script so this might be a waste of your time. I wouldn't proceed without knowing where that dang Windows MBR is located.

I'm really bummed that nobody with a Dell has jumped in to help.


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I haven't followed up this thread but a MBR is just the first 512 bytes of a hard disk.

If you worry about Dell's own data in the hard disk then do not delete any partition that you have no knowledge of.

Unlike Windows Linux allows you to see and operate all partitions including the ones hidden. Many computer vendors store the computer utilities, drivers and machine specific information in a hidden partition. To make any partition hidden the PC convention is to remove or add the digit "1" to its partition type number. Thus a NTFS partition, which has a Type No 7, can become hidden with a Type No. 17. PC vendors typically store their goodies hidden in a Fat16 or Fat32 partition with Type No. 16 and 1c. By altering the Type No to 6 and c these partitions become visible to any operating system. Windows does not permit alteration of partition type Numbers but in Linux one can play around with the 100+ partition types. 

The MBR is for the exclusive use of an operating system. It is not part of any filing system (all in machine binary code) and so cannot be deleted by an operating system unless you are really gunning for it. Ususally the MBR is replaced when one OS takes over another. There are always commands within every operating system to restore the MBR. If you are interested in playing with the MBR take a look at the Task B of the last link of my signature which documents commands restoring MBR for Dos, Windows, Lilo and Grub.

MS systems share a common MBR which can be restored either by a Dos floppy or an insllation CD of Win2k or XP. 

You need to be aware of between the 557th to 510th bytes (64 bytes for the 4 primary partitions) is the partition table of the hard disk. Restoring the MBR with the standard commands does not touch it but using your own method may cause damage if you do not know what you are doing. Otherwise the MBR is quite harmless to be kicked around because it can always be restored.

Also the main purpose of the MBR is for booting up the operating system. However technically a user does not need MBR to boot up any PC system, be it a Windows or a Linux. So don't lose sleep because of it.

--------------------
Why MBR is not essential for booting

If one has a floppy drive, a USB stick or a CD drive one can put the boot loader on any of these devices and instruct the Bios to boot it first. Then from the boot loader residing in such a device one uses it to boot any operating system inside the inernal hard disk.

A humble Grub floppy is all it takes to boot any system in a PC. 

Give MBR a break. Leave it alone to have a holiday. You can always recall it back any time.

--------------------------------
What makes MBR so special

Nothing really. It is just the PC standard when the Bios has to search a hard disk for booting an operating system it does so by reading its first 512 bytes. From the information it knows the addresses to find its 4 primary partitions. Also the Bios will load its first part into the memory and disappears for a long lunch break.

Thus whatever we leave in the MBR control how the operating system is booted.

Every partition we create in a hard disk has it first side of one track reserved for the boot sector and the filing indexing system. The MBR is just the boot sector of the first partition. Every partition also has a boot sector but the Bios only reads the first one. Also every hard disk has a MBR but the Bios searches according to the queue specified by the user and so the MBR of the first bootable disk will get loaded and put into operation if it is in a working order.


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## William5700 (Nov 18, 2006)

Ubuntu is easy to install but its a pain to remove just warning ya


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

William5700,

No system is a pain to remove.

An operating system must reside in a partition or a set of partitions.

You can boot up any Live CD and use it to delete the partition (or partitions) and the system is gone in seconds. The deletion of the partition is just the removal of 16 bytes of data in the partition table. The actual information of the partition is untouched but as there is no information of it to the Bios the OS is as good as gone. If you keep a record you can reconstruct the partition table and everything is back again.

If you have a running OS, of either Windows or Linux, the removal of a partition is even faster as you don't need time to boot up a system to do the deletion. 7 mouse clicks (in Windows) seems fairly painless to me.

1. Right click My computer
2. Left click Manage
3. Left click Storage
4. Left click Disk Management
5. One click to highlight the partition 
6. One click for Partition deletion
7. One click to confirm.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi, saikee!
If you've got the time could you take a look at post #31? That's where Stephen posted his partitions. 
If he just wanted to do a straight dual-boot, no boot floppy or Grub Disk or whatever, then we've gotta figure out where his MBR is. I thought MBR was always at the front of the disc, but the Dell has some sort of utility there, then the actual Windows install appears to be the second partition. 

So, my understanding is as follows - to do a straighforward dual-boot we gotta aim Ubuntu's GRUB at the MBR. I don't think GRUB can actually find the MBR, it's just gonna assume that the MBR is at hd0. Is that right? I already talked with Stephen about where Ubuntu gives you the option of directing GRUB - right at the end of the partitioning steps - but I don't know if he should let it go to hd0 or tell it to go to hd0,1.

With as many people who have dual-booted Dells you'd think someone woulda jumped in here with the answer, but so far no joy.


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

If you don't mind (as I haven't got time to go through all the replies) I go straight to Post #31.

Sda1 and sda3 are likely the recreation of Dell but you don't have to touch them.

Grub counts from 0. If there is no other disk in the PC then sda will be known as disk (hd0) to Grub. Sda1 and sda3 are called by Grub as (hd0,0) and (hd0,2).

Sda2 is a NTFS partition so I would think that will be the home of Windows.

In the installation of Ubuntu one can put Grub in the MBR. The process actually only put Stage1 of Grub in the first 512 bytes and hard-code it to link up with the Grub inside the Ubuntu partition. As sda1 filing system starts from the side 1 (side 0 assigned to the boot sector) whatever boot loader in the MBR will not affect its content or working of sda1.

To put Grub in MBR is to put it in (hd0) or the whole of the 1st disk. That means MBR only.

To instruct Grub to put itself in (hd0,0), which is sda1, is different as it requires Grub wholly inside sda1. I believe the instruction only works properly if Ubuntu has been installed in sda1 which isn't the case here.

I believe putting Grub in the MBR should work OK. There is possibility Grub may not pick up Windows to boot. This is not Grub's fault but rather one by Ubuntu installer. A Linux installer does not know where a MS system resides if there are several possibilities. Thus it is quick possible Ubuntu installer got the wrong end of the stick to boot sda1 by these lines

```
title Windows
root (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
```
I would just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to put it right like this

```
title Windows in sda2
root (hd0,[color=red][b]1[/b][/color])
chainloader +1
```
Remember Grub can be controlled manually. If one sees a Grub screen and presses "c" key one will be given a Grub prompt. The file /boot/grub/menu.lst in fact contains the instructions one can use to boot the systems manually in a Grub prompt except the "title" statement can be omitted and the final instruction to be followed by a "boot" statement. Thus if a user has a Grub prompt these lines will boot Windows manually.

```
root (hd0,[color=red][b]1[/b][/color])
chainloader +1
boot
```
Grub will respond after each line in entered but no response means acceptance. Thus in manual booting one know exactly where Grub got stuck.


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## William5700 (Nov 18, 2006)

saikee said:


> William5700,
> 
> No system is a pain to remove.
> 
> ...


ah yes then u have to figure out how to remove grub loader and u lose the ability to partition a drive (after deleting linux) but i managed to repair the damage of linux god dam its hard thats why i am never installing it again


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

William5700,

Regarding method to remove Grub I document two methods Task B1 & B2 in the last link of my signature. Again I really could not see what a fuss of booting up a Dos floppy and type "fdisk /mbr" to put back the MBR of any MS system, be it a Dos, Win9x, Win2k or XP. May be you didnot know a boot loader in the MBR can only be "replaced" and not "removed", as you need one for booting in any PC.

To do partitioning, to delete partitions, to restore a boot loader, to make an unbootable Linux to boot again.... can all be done by a Linux Live CD and any Live CD can do it.

If you want to abandon Linux because you cannot be bothered to find the easy ways then it is your God-given right. I am just here to defend Linux can be a lot easier than a commercial system because there is no secret in it and everything is in the public domain.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Stephen -
I cracked open my version of Scott Mueller's biblical reference book, "Upgrading and Repairing PC's". I have the 13th Ed., which is a bit out-of-date. The 16th ed. can be bought used at Amazon ridiculously cheap compared to brand new. I think I'm gonna do that.
Scott's book is incredibly useful for learning everything from "How does an optical laser work?" to "Where does the MBR go?" 
The 13th ed. mostly assumes Windows, but mentions Linux here and there. Maybe the 16th is better in that regard.
Anyway, some quotes:

Page 1318 "The master boot sector always is located in the first sector of the entire disk (cylinder 0, head 0, sector 1) and consists of the following structures:
_Master partition table_ Contains a list of the partitions on the disk and the locations of their volume boot records. This table is very small and can contain only four entries at most. Therefore, to accommodate more partitions, operating systems such as DOS can divide a single partition into multiple logical volumes.
_Master boot code_ A small program that is executed by the system BIOS, the main function of which is to pass control of the system to the partition that has been designated as active (or bootable)."

Page 1317, Figure 15.1 shows the master boot record at Cylinder 0, Head 0. It's hidden. It doesn't show up as a partition.

So I think we can be pretty certain that your MBR is at the head of the HDD, regardless of whether your Windows install is at the first or second partition. GRUB calls the very front of the HDD "hd0", so that's where I'd send it.

I'm less sure of what will happen after you create a partition for Linux and point GRUB to hd0. I think that GRUB will still give you the option of going to your Windows install, because that's what the MBR is doing now. But I'm not sure.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Stephen, don't know where you are with the 1505 wireless but saw this post and thought it might be useful to you
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=297092


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Bartender
thnks for the info I am going to try the install of Ubuntu. if thet works then I will get to the wireless situation. 
I'll keep you posted.


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Bartender & Stephen47,

Are you guys still worrying about the MBR and Windows won't boot after a Linux is installed?

If you put a Linux in a partition say sda6 and install Grub in the MBR. Grub only put its Stage1, which is 512 bytes long, in the MBR. The intellegence of Grub is actually in a file called Stage2, although there could be a Satge1.5 but that can be ignored if Stage2 is available. Stage2 is always stored inside the root partition of the Linux or sda6 in this case. You will find Stage2 inside its /boot/grub directory together the configuration file menu.lst controlling how Grub boots. When the PC is booted the Stage1 in the MBR will gain access to the memory and will pass the control to Stage2.

Everything Grub does is controlled by this menu.lst file which is a text file we can edit. 

Regarding if Windows would be booted by Grub this is quite simple. It is every Linux installer's duty to check every partition to search for a boot loader. If one is found the installer will automatically arrange it as a booting choice. Windows always stores its boot loader in its root partition and so it will automatically detected and arranged for booting.

Having said the above it is possible a user may inadvertently stop Windows from booting. However it is only a matter of editing 2 to 3 lines in /boot/grub/menu.lst of a Linux (that uses Grub, as for Lilo the equivalent file is /etc/lilo.conf) to boot Windows again.

/boot/grub/menu.lst is a system file and as such a user needs root privileges to edit it. This can be done in Ubuntu root terminal. Also as Ubuntu doesn't permit a root log in to the GUI you must prepared to do the editing in terminal mode using the standard editor "vi" which is available in every Linux.

Once a user knows how to edit Grub's menu.lst everything beomes easy.

Everything we can make Grub do is described in Grub Manual which will show up if you Google it.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

saikee said:


> Having said the above it is possible a user may inadvertently stop Windows from booting. However it is only a matter of editing 2 to 3 lines in /boot/grub/menu.lst of a Linux (that uses Grub, as for Lilo the equivalent file is /etc/lilo.conf) to boot Windows again.


Once I'd given Stephen the somewhat misleading impression that I knew what I was talking about, I felt responsible for NOT encouraging him to do something that stopped Windows from booting. I didn't understand the weird Dell partitions. I know enuf to edit my menu.lst but that's after months of trial & error and hanging around the forums. Have seen way too many panicked "Ubuntu ruined my Windows" posts.

This thread, if nothing else, provoked me to learn some more about MBR & GRUB & partitioning, so it hasn't been a total waste 

BTW, in Ubuntu I edited my menu.lst using "sudo gedit boot/grub/menu.lst", not necessary to use vi

EDIT: saikee, I'll definitely bookmark the GRUB manual and read it. But let's be realistic - you can't expect a Linux neophyte to grok that!


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

Bartender,

If you can edit menu.lst you should be able to use the last link of my signature. I summarise all the booting tips there.

If you want Grub sings and dances for you read the Grub Manual. Although the manual doesn't say so but I haven't found a PC system Grub cannot boot. Also the Grub has been enginnered it can boot systems before Grub was born and also systems that haven't been invented on a PC. Try it with Vista!


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I'm not worried about the MBR any more. I am going to move forward with this tonight


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## saikee (Jun 11, 2004)

I really don't think installing a Linux can be hard.

I have just installed Caixa Majica 11. It is a Portuguese distro and the installer is in Portuguese which I can't read. Between yes and no I think "sim" is yes and that is about all Portuguese I know.

Two things are important in any Linux installation; the home for the distro and the location for its boot loader.

As it happens I have empty partitions lining up and so manage to select hdc50 and edit it to mount "/". As for the boot loader I can make out MBR and so chose the other choice which went to the root partition (in fact it is /dev/hdc50 too).

Whatever distro and language the standard components in a Linux are always similar and that is how I install many foreign distros without knowing the languages.

The installer has two parts and the second part is after a reboot. Since I have many distros controlled by Grub in the MBR it is tricky to boot a half installed Caixa Majica.

I therefore used Grub prompt (by pressing "c" at the Grub booting screen) to declare root is at (hd1,49) which is hdc50 in LInux, as my hdb is the CD drive. I then used the standard trick to type" kernel /boot/vm" follow by the tap key and Grub displayed two choices for me to finish my statement. I know a lot of Linux use vmlinuz for the kernel name and so I chose it when displayed. I similarly type "initrd /boot/in" follow by the tap key and got /boot/initrd as one of the two choices for the ramdisk file. I then fired up the half installed Linux by the command "boot" to finish the other half installation.

I had to navigate to reset the Portuguese to UK keyboard and wrote the menu.lst for Grub like this

```
title Caixa Majica 11 in hdc50
root (hd1,49)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hdc50 ro
initrd /boot/initrd
```
I have since rebooted and use it to do this reply.

The above menu.lst works in any Linux that has the standard kernel and initrd names. Only the root partition reference need to be adjusted.


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Ububtu is up and running. It installed very nicely but now we are back to the connection problem. I disabled ipv6 and tried ppoeconf which produced a not found message so I followed the steps outlined here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkDevices
so I am stuck I guess. also I have to keep re-booting between Ubuntu and Windows so I can look things up. any suggestions?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Ok I am connected I misread the command I typed ppoeconf instead of pppoeconf. One other question though. I have a wireless router. So to be able to keep that going and connect here through a direct wired connection I bought a cable splitter so I could run one cable to the router and one to my computer. But the pppoeconf scanner "access concentrator or my provider did not respond" I then ran a cable dirctly from the modem to the computer and I was able to configure my connection and it worked fine. Why didn't it work with the cable splitter? It isn't the cable because that setup works fine when I am running Windows.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi, Stephen -
I don't know anything about wireless routers and splitter cables. The router has no wired "out" receptacle? I thought most of them did.

Can you tell me how the install went? Did you just let GRUB install to "hd0" and the dual-boot worked? What about the Dell utility partition?
If you don't mind, could you post your menu.lst again? After our long discussion over this I'd like to know what happened. Heck, I may buy a Dell and need to know!

Did you partition with the Ubuntu install CD or a GParted CD?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I let the Ubuntu installer partition the disk but I chose the size. I never thought to look for an out receptacle. I will look for it. Do you mean my fdisk.lst? I will post that when I get back to my computer. I deleted the Dell restore partition but left the Utility one and it didn't seem to bother the install.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Stephen47 said:


> Do you mean my fdisk.lst?


Yeah, sorry, I meant the same one as before. I'm glad to hear you have a functioning installation!
As I said previously, I know little about wireless and routers. Was under the impression that even a wireless router usually provides one ethernet receptacle. If it does, and your Ubuntu connects, would that solve the problem, or are the devices in separate rooms?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

There are acutally three receptacles. I plugged int one of them and it is working fine. I am still going to work on the wireless but at least I don't have to reboot to windows. Here is the new fdisl.lst:
Disk /dev/sda: 58.5 GB, 58506416640 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7113 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 5 40131 de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 * 6 2733 21912660 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3 2734 6931 33720435 83 Linux
/dev/sda4 6932 7113 1461915 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 6932 7113 1461883+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

can I import my Firefox bookmarks by burning them to a cd then reading them from the cd in ubuntu?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi, Stephen -
Whoohoo Glad to hear you're online.
I've got a suggestion I wanted to run by you, and that's recording some of your basic partition/boot settings. This is something I did after having installed/uninstalled several versions of Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc. and realizing I had nothing to show for it other than some hand-written notes. 
Open abiword (or OpenOffice if you prefer) and minimize it. Then get your GRUB menu.lst


```
sudo cat /boot/grub/menu.lst
```
Copy/paste that into a new abiword document, name it "menu.lst" or "GRUB" or something similar, then save it in your Home folder.


```
sudo cat /etc/fstab
```
fstab is a list of the devices that will automatically mount when Ubuntu starts up. Notice that some of the devices are physical devices, such as your optical drive, and other devices are partitions. The funny little codes after each device describes various properties, such as read/write, user access, etc. This is a good list to have handy. Same thing; copy/paste, name and save.


```
sudo fdisk -l
```
fdisk can do all kinds of things, but let's not worry about anything other than the list of partitions that it recognizes. Copy/paste/name/save

Those three files come up all the time on the forums when people are trying to help others with problems. This little exercise gives you a bit of a feel for working with your Home folder. Unlike Windows, you'll spend very little time in any other Linux folders. You can make folders inside Home for music, documents, or whatever.

EDIT: Thanks for the new fdisk -l. I'll save that for future reference. Sorry, but I don't know about importing the Firefox settings. Betcha it's not hard to do though!


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

how do I get abiword? Open office won't let me save it. I get and error message: 
Error saving untitled1: /home/menu.lst.odt does not exist.
I click ok then another error message pops up
Error saving document Untitled1:
General Error
General input/output error
what is up with that?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Hi, Stephen -
I'm stuck with dial-up at home, and usually online with our fast homebrew Windows PC rather than the old Linux test PC. If I had broadband both PC's would be online and I could give better advice.

OK, Linux PC fired up. Now that we're talking about it, I don't believe abiword came in Ubuntu Dapper. Go to System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager. Click on Search. The "Find" window comes up - check the options in the second box to make sure it's going to look by "Name". Type "abiword" in the upper box, then click "Search". You'll see "abiword" in the left-hand column, then it comes up in the right-hand column along with some of the associated packages. I'm pretty sure "abiword" is in the main repositories, so it should pop up. 

Oh, yeah, in the Synaptic toolbar, click on 'Help', then 'Icon Legend' for a guide to the various icons next to the files so you'll know what they mean.

So you left-click on 'abiword', click 'Mark for Installation', 'Apply', a new window pops up asking for verification of what you want to do, then 'Apply' again. I think that's the last step before Synaptic will go online and get the packages for you. Since you've got broadband you might download the abiword-help package too. 

I'm going to go thru the steps for saving a document to see what I missed. Open OpenOffice Word Processor, minimize. Open a terminal. Type 'sudo fdisk -l'. Enter. Enter password. OK, the file is on the screen. I swipe it with the mouse, right-click, left-click on 'Copy'. Minimize or close the terminal window. Bring OO back up again. Right-click in the open field, left-click Paste. Now I have the text from fdisk -l in an untitled document. Go to 'File', 'Save As', left-click. I name it 'fdisk', then in the 'Save in folder' window I click on 'bpbar', the name for my Home Folder. Notice there's an option to Browse for other folders, though you may never need to use that. 

Since I'm not using Linux on a day-to-day basis (yet) I haven't organized the Home folder by creating new folders within it. 

In the 'Save file as type' window, I changed it to 'Microsoft Word (doc)' just for the heck of it, then saved. 

Did it work? I go to 'Places', 'Home Folder', find 'fdisk.doc', click on it, OO opens with the document. Yes, it worked.

Try again, & tell us what happened, OK?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

will do


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I still get the same messages in OO. In abiword when I try to save it to my home folder I get a message that says this folderis write protected.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Your abiword situation:
I'm not familiar with permissions because I haven't had to deal with them. Are you logging into the computer with the password/username that you initially set up? I'm doing a quick skim thru my books and did a search on Ubuntu Forums for "write protected". It appears that the permissions for your folders aren't set up correctly. I've seen lots of posts asking about "chown" and "chmod" but never paid them much attention because I didn't understand it and I wasn't having a problem in that area.
With a fresh install of Ubuntu on your PC I don't understand why yours would act differently than mine.
By the time we get done with this, we're both gonna be smarter. 
I've got the Linux PC fired up again, trying to figure out permissions stuff. Earlier, I mis-stated something about your Home Folder. Home is not, technically speaking, where your personal files go. They go into another folder under Home. That folder has your username. Mine is "bpbar".

Let me show you. Go to Places. Click on 'Computer'. Double-click on 'File System'. The 7th folder is marked 'home'. On my PC, if I look to the right of the 'home' icon I see it has one folder. Click on the little triangle to the left of 'home', it spins 90 degrees and shows the contents. That one folder is 'bpbar'. Notice how the icon is different than the others - mine has a little orange "home" symbol in the lower right hand corner of the folder icon. So, bpbar is actually my Home folder. This is a little confusing because from the desktop if I click on Home I go right to bpbar, bypassing the "home" folder, but once that's understood I guess it's not so bad.

So, I right-click on 'bpbar', then left-click on 'Properties'. Left-click again on 'Permissions'. There's a matrix of little boxes in the center of the window. To the right of "Owner", all boxes are marked in orange with check marks in them. The Owner (me) can Read, Write, and Execute. Group and Others can Read and Write, but not Execute.

Further down the window, "Text view" has this code after it: drwxr-xr-x. I get lost unless I have a book in front of me (using Beginning Linux for this, page 226). drwxr-xr-x is Linux shorthand, describing the file permissions. It's basically the same information as described in the previous paragraph. "d" means it's a directory we're looking at. "rwxr" means the User can access the directory, read, write, delete, etc. The "xr" refers to Group, who can read files but not write new ones. "x" describes Others, who can read & browse the directory, but not write to it. 

So I close that window and right-click on 'home', the folder above 'bpbar'. Left-click on 'Properties' then 'Permissions'. Everything is grayed out, and there's a note on the bottom saying "You are not the owner, so you can't change these permissions."

Is that what you're seeing? 

Another check: Close all that stuff so you're back to the desktop. If I click on Places, then Home, I get a window labeled "bpbar - File Browser" The first folder is Desktop, then stuf I've tossed into my home folder. Look just above the list of folders within Home. I see a little arrow, and a box that says "bpbar", indicating that's where I am. If I click the back arrow I get a box that says "home" and the arrow changes to an icon that looks like a hard drive.

I'm hoping that what you've been doing is trying to save files to the actual "home" directory instead of your folder within "home". Is that possible?

The weird OpenOffice messages make no sense to me at all. Let's try this - open OO, type anything in the field, go to File>Save as, give it a name, and save it to the desktop instead of home. See if that works. Try the same thing in abiword. I realize these aren't solutions, and I apologize for that. Just trying to think of ways we can corner the problem and shine a light on it. 

If it really is a permissions problem, it's not terribly hard to change permissions. But I don't have any experience and don't want to send you down the wrong path. What puzzles me is why your permissions would be any different than mine?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Yes that is what I am seeing I am not the owner. BTW I did manage to save them when I saved them to steve, which is apparently my home folder, as it is in the home folder in file systems but I don't have the little triangle. If I double click the home folder the steve folder shows up. I get home-file browser wen I click on home in places.
I saved the files in abiword so I guess the OO issue is a non issue.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

Did you install Dapper? 6.06? I'd sure think that it should behave exactly like mine. What you said about finding 'steve' inside the 'home' folder makes sense, but the part about ubuntu not automatically going to 'steve' doesn't.
That's also odd that you see "home - File Browser" when you click on Home instead of "steve - File Browser".
Did OO successfully save a file to the desktop? 
OpenOffice is probably going to become your default word processor, unless you can't save any files!

I don't remember - did you ever run the "Check CD for Errors" function before installing Ubuntu? Linux seems so stable and predictable and there's got to be a reason why yours is acting a bit squirrely. You installed Ubuntu to the laptop also, didn't you? And with the same CD? Does the lappy act the same?


----------



## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

I saved them in abiword and steve was the default folder to save them in. I did install Dapper 6.06 When I click on Home in places I do see steve - file browser. I think we are seeing the same thing I am just not explaining it too well I guess.


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

OK, Stephen, don't be a stranger 

I'd still like to hear about OpenOffice and if it's able to save files. 

Also, have you used Synaptic Package Manager to update your Ubuntu install?


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## Stephen47 (Oct 4, 2002)

Yes I can save files in Open Office now that I know to save them to steve.
I have updated ubuntu but I don't know if it was through Synaptic Package Manager though. I got a message in the upper right corner telling me updates were available.
Is this automatic?


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## Bartender (Apr 27, 2006)

If Ubuntu detects an internet connection while starting up, it'll check for updates. My Linux test PC is connected to the web via an external dial-up modem. Before I had the modem hooked up I never got those "Updates are available" windows. Now I do.

I never bother getting the updates because the updates download at about 4 kbps and the ISP disconnects me long before anything's done. I've loaded the PC into the car several times and brought it to a broadband connection to get caught up.

Fortunately, you don't have that problem. You can get updates either by clicking on the little window, or by closing it and going thru Synaptic Package manager. I found out that you don't want to leave the "Updates available" window waiting on you while starting up Synaptic to get updates. You'll get an error message saying that Update Manager is already running, or something like that.


----------

