# Solved: Trying to figure out if Dell 4700 uses proprietary (non-standard) Power Supply



## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

I posted a question sort of about this earlier, but the question kind of changed so I decided to make a new thread:

I have a Dell 4700 and am looking to upgrade the Power Supply to a non-dell brand such as ThermalTake or Antec. I have heard rumors that using a non-dell model could acutally fry your motherboard. I heard that Dell used proprietary parts (non-standard) in their builds and this was the reason for the incompatibility. However some people said Dell stopped doing this is 2002, and I really hope this is the case.

I checked my Dell Digital User Manual and took some screen shots of what it had for the power supply and connectors. They are below. Also, notice on the motherboard diagram the connecter is 24-pin, does this mean Dell is actually using industry standard PSU and parts now? If so, will it be ok to upgrade the PSU, without anything bad happening? Take a look at the pin information and let me know what you guys think. Thanks a ton! 

Also, PC power and Cooling claims to make 100% compatible PSU's for Dell, and I would get one of those, but they are way to expensive. However, look at the specs on this one guarrenteed to work for the Dell 4700:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S47D&view=techspecs
Scroll down to Misc. and notice it says 24-pin, isn't that industry standard, and what the Antecs etc. use?


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## JohnWill (Oct 19, 2002)

Several threads here have claimed that the Dell 4700 does use a standard P/S. I personally don't know for sure, but you could check the pinout of the existing supply with a voltmeter and compare it to a standard P/S. usually, the same color wires in the harness are the same voltage, so just measure one of each color (black is ground) and compare the results with a standard P/S.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

This is the pin out for your 4700 psu. http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/techov.htm#wp1053452


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

The only difference between your Dell and a standard 24 pin psu is pin # 20.Dell has no connection where most standard 24 pin psu's are -5v white wire at that pin. As you have no connection there you will be fine using a standard 24 pin psu which ever one you pick but get the best you can afford.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok, cool, thank you all for your help! I am now feeling pretty good at getting an upgraded PSU, can any of you reccommend some good models/brands? Thanks


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

You may have to cut the rear screen on the back of the tower as some Dell psu's have the power plug on the oppisite side than a standard psu with an on off switch but it is no big deal to do if needed.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

pugmug said:


> The only difference between your Dell and a standard 24 pin psu is pin # 20.Dell has no connection where most standard 24 pin psu's are -5v white wire at that pin. As you have no connection there you will be fine using a standard 24 pin psu which ever one you pick but get the best you can afford.


Hello again,
When you say that dell has no Pin #20, is this the pin on the connector from the power supply cable or actually on the motherboard? Also, what does this pin do and what will be affected since Dell doesn't use that?


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

There is nothing these days that actually use -5v, so from the link above regarding the pin-out, it's probable that there is nothing connected to the pin on the motherboard. Therefore it will not matter if the power supply has -5v available or not, as it's not going anywhere.

Many motherboards do not use this "-5v" supply, its existence is historical in nature.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

kiwiguy said:


> There is nothing these days that actually use -5v, so from the link above regarding the pin-out, it's probable that there is nothing connected to the pin on the motherboard. Therefore it will not matter if the power supply has -5v available or not, as it's not going anywhere.
> 
> Many motherboards do not use this "-5v" supply, its existence is historical in nature.


Ok, that is good to know. What is the use for this pin and other pins in general also. I know it is to transmit power, but why has it been phased out?

Also, what exactly is this pin used on? The motherboard connector, the connector coming from the PSU to the motherboard, or just on all cables? Thanks


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Hello,
I had a few threads in the past trying to figure out if Dell used proprietary (non-standard) power supplies and parts. After a while, we figured out that most likely they have now started using industry standard parts and that it would be safe to upgrade the PSU using a non-Dell or PC Power and Cooling certified PSU.

But anyways, I wanted to bring it back up again because just to see if anyone else knew anything.
*
Ok, so I have a Dell 4700 and would like to upgrade the PSU. My fear is, is that if I upgrade it to something than other made by Dell or certified for Dell, it could fry my parts. Will it?*

*Here are the links to my past threads about this, so you can see what I am talking about:*
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/442111-do-you-think-power-supply.html?highlight=Power+Supply
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/442999-will-power-supply-work-my.html?highlight=Power+Supply
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/443291-trying-figure-out-if-dell.html?highlight=Power+Supply
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_other&message.id=268524#M268524

In some of those threads, I took screen shots of my Dell manual which showed the power supply and motherboard details. Feel free to take a look at that.

*Also, here is the current "pin-out" and documentation for the current Dell Power Supply in my 4700:*
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/techov.htm#wp1053452

There was also some talk about how Dell didn't use the "-5v" pin (pin #20). What is this pin used for and why does Dell not use it? Will it hurt anything if I use a normal PSU with this type of connector? And when people were saying that Dell does not use this pin, were they talking about the motherboard connector or the actual connector coming from the Dell PSU?

The main reason I am bringing this up again is because I want to be double sure that everything works ok and I really do not want to fry my computer. I would just go and ask Dell, but they refuse to help me because my 90 day warranty is up. 

NOTE: Also, please forgive the other my thread that refers to the PSU problem that is currently being displayed in the "hardware" section. I just re-posted on that, so it came back up to the newest entries. However, I decided to make a more detailed post.


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

Some earlier logic chips needed both +5v and -5v, but technology has moved on so probably not a lot of boards use the older technology chips these days. The -5v rail was used in older technology amplifiers that are not present in current day motherboards.

I would suggest that you use Google to find out what each pin is needed for, but to know what chips each voltage is actually used in and why, would require a high level of electronics knowledge and understanding of chip architecture for it to make any sense.

It is certainly beyond the scope of a simple post on this forum, and in reality there is no need to know unless you are wanting to develop complex computer hardware.

As an example, another power rail (-12v) was widely used for RS232 serial port use, but as these "legacy" ports are not often included on motherboards these days, I suspect it will also be another case of it still being available from the PSU, but often not used in the future.


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## qldit (Mar 18, 2005)

Good Morning AhrenBa, I wouldn't rely too much on the printed information in these kinds of circumstances.
I would be inclined to simply remove the existing PSU to the bench and organise to run it with a load of some description and record all the pin voltages then compare it to a standard PSU of the type you envisage you might be using.

There is one organisation that swap a couple of pin-outs on their PSU's, so a physical and electical check is a good idea to avoid smoke. 

Simply config the new PSU to the same standard as the one you have.
It should only involve P1.

qldit.


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

*AhrenBa* it is frowned on here to duplicate posts when you had so many replies to the last one, including one post that I went to some trouble to explain the -5v issue. Plainly to no avail, so I may as well give up on this one....

Simply posting in your existing thread will bring it up to the top.

As you appear somewhat paranoid about the matter, can I finally suggest you take the PC to a repair shop and have them sell and fit a replacement PSU for you. That way if they fry anything, it's their problem and not yours.


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## Cookiegal (Aug 27, 2003)

I've merged both of your threads together.

Please continue replying in this one only.


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## norton850 (Mar 9, 2004)

I doubt you'll have a problem since your present PS is 305W so I would think you should have enough room for an aftermarket PS. Sometimes however brand PS are physically on the small size so make sure you have the space for a new one.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Last post for myself also on this matter. Link to your 4700 psu pin out. http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/techov.htm#wp1053452 and a link to a standard 24 pin psu pin out. http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml If you are worried about the # 20 pin on your mobo then buy whatever standard 24 pin atx 12v psu you want and if your Dell mobo has a pin in the # 20 slot then take wire snips and cut the # 20 pin wire on your new psu and tape it up. I don't see the major problem here with this psu change out.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok, thank you all for the help. I think I will go ahead a purchase a new PSU. 

Sorry about duplicating the post. I was just trying to get a fresh answer, but it now makes complete sense to just post in my old thread. Sorry about that! It won't happen again.

If anyone else has advice, feel free to keep posting. Thanks


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok, now that I feel pretty good about upgrading the PSU, I need some suggestions.

I would like to keep the budget under about $50 (yeah, its cheap ).Do you guys have any recommended brands/models? Thanks

*Also, what do I need to look for when buying a PSU? Whats the deal with the ATX, it looks like there are different kinds (ATX, ATX12v). Which would I need, or how do I figure out? Also, are all PSU about the same size? Because I want to make sure it fits in my Dell 4700.*


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Different question so I will post to this. Look for good 12 v rails like 16 to 18 amp per. 50 dollars may buy you an ok psu so go to like Newegg and look or Google it.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Oh, forgot. You want an ATX 12V 24 pin psu for your 4700.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

pugmug said:


> Oh, forgot. You want an ATX 12V 24 pin psu for your 4700.


Ok, thanks. I appreciate it. What is the differnce between ATX and ATX 12V? Thanks for the time.

Where do I find the amps per rail? Does these spec have it somewhere in there:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153023

That power supply is just a normal ATX, does that make a difference?


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

To sum it up an ATX does not have the 12 v power connection for the mobo to feed the intel cpu you have and only 20 pins for the main mobo power connector. You want an ATX 12 V 24 pin PSU.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

pugmug said:


> To sum it up an ATX does not have the 12 v power connection for the mobo to feed the intel cpu you have and only 20 pins for the main mobo power connector. You want an ATX 12 V 24 pin PSU.


Ok, thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it.

But one last thing, on that PSU link I posted on the thread post above, where do I locate the amps per rail? Also, that specific PSU has a "20 +4" connector. I noticed that you said it has to be a 24 pin, I am assuming this is also 24 pin? Would this work ok? Thanks

Are most PSU's the same size? I want to make sure that it'll fit in my PC.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Yes a 20 plus 4 will work and read the specs given in the output of the +3.3 v ,+ 5 v and + 12 v lines or rails of the psu you want. If unsure post link to the psu you want and you will be helped before you buy it.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

The link states it is a tight fit in a Dell 4600 so check out other psu's first.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Also remember this. You get what you pay for and as the psu is the most important part in a computer as it feeds everything cheap is not the way to go for a psu. But it is your computer and your money.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

pugmug said:


> Yes a 20 plus 4 will work and read the specs given in the output of the +3.3 v ,+ 5 v and + 12 v lines or rails of the psu you want. If unsure post link to the psu you want and you will be helped before you buy it.


Ok, thank you. So the main thing, as far as amps go, that I need to look for is what ever amp the 12v rail is? What do the other ones like 3.3v rail mean or do? In this case the 12v rail amp is 18, correct? Thanks again for your effort and time.


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

Here is a link to answer your question as a guide. http://www.pctechbytes.com/powersupply.htm


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## win2kpro (Jul 19, 2005)

I know this PSU is a little more than you stated you wanted to spend, but for an extra $20 this is really good unit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103937


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

> Here is a link to answer your question as a guide. http://www.pctechbytes.com/powersupply.htm


Thank you, that helps me understand the voltages and stuff better. I appreciate it.



> I know this PSU is a little more than you stated you wanted to spend, but for an extra $20 this is really good unit.


That does look like a really good unit. I am highly considering it. Could you suggest a list of high-quality or good PSU brands? Thanks


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Could anyone suggest some good brands of PSU that they like? Thanks. Also, what are key things to look for in a PSU besided the voltage?


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## pugmug (Jun 13, 2005)

I give up and agree with post # 13 of this thread. AhrenBa, as you have internet or you would not be here can I ask why you do not do just a little research on your own? Try Google as in atx 12 v psu reviews. You have drug this simple psu replacement out way to long. Every question has been answered for you so far.Do you want someone to come over and do this psu exchange for you. It's just a Dell and a dead Dell is a good Dell as in one less low end computer in this world. Ok rant is now over. ps. please just put a new psu in or keep the one you have now, thank you!


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## photolady (May 5, 2004)

Good brands of power supplies include, Antec, Enermax, Enlight, Fortron (FSP), Sparkle, and Thermaltake. Use any one of those and you won't have any problems. But be aware as has already been said, you need one with the correct specs, and correct connectors. Now go buy one!!


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

photolady said:


> Good brands of power supplies include, Antec, Enermax, Enlight, Fortron (FSP), Sparkle, and Thermaltake. Use any one of those and you won't have any problems. But be aware as has already been said, you need one with the correct specs, and correct connectors. Now go buy one!!


Thank you very much! So basically the only thing I need to make sure of is that the PSU will fit in my computer and that it uses ATX12v? Correct?


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## kiwiguy (Aug 17, 2003)

AhrenBa said:


> Thank you very much! So basically the only thing I need to make sure of is that the PSU will fit in my computer and that it uses ATX12v? Correct?


Just read the previous 33 posts.
Every question has been answered, most multiple times.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

kiwiguy said:


> Just read the previous 33 posts.
> Every question has been answered, most multiple times.


Ok, sorry, I just like to double check everything. I'll stop now.


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## AhrenBa (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok, heres the last post:

I found that the Dell PSU in the 4700 is industry standard and not proprietary! I wanted to post this once and for all so that if anyone else has the same problem in the future, they can come here.
Heres the proof:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice all votages of the "My Dell 4700 Pinout" and the "Industry Standard Pinout" are the same. The only thing that is different is that the Dell PSU does not use PIN #20, which is the -5v pin. I don't think this will affect anything though.

*My Dell 4700 Pinout:*









*Industry Standard PSU Pinout:*









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Notice how the older model of Dell 2100 uses the same pinout as the known proprietray configuration.
*Old Dell 2100 Pinout:*








*Known Dell Proprietray Configuration: 
From this article,http://www.quepublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=339053*









I also wanted to say sorry for dragging the thread out and asking repeated questions. , sorry guys! I am marking the thread solved! Thanks for all the much needed help.


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