# New Business Site, Please Review



## shaider (May 20, 2010)

The review on the last site was really helpful. We've sent the comments or feedbacks here to the webguy and he is currently working on revising it.

In the meantime, we have a new business site and we would like to get your feedback on design, usability, etc. In other words, will it make people hire us and buy our products and services.

The site is, http://www.dsi-canada.com

Thanks everyone.


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

It's messy.
It's a very rough information site.
Navigation could be (should be) better with the menuing system. There are many hidden pages down several tiers of nav.



> In other words, will it make people hire us and buy our products and services.


No. It lacks marketing. (It also lacks SEO.)

But it's not so bad to make them want to "not buy" from you either. So that's an improvement!

I've seen worse. At least what you have is workable here, if the right pro re-did it.
I recently tackled a very similar site. It started much like this one, and I made it into something pretty awesome (so far, at least -- they are SLLLLOOOOWWWW to get me info to finish it for them). So still not live, sadly. The loss is really all theirs.


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

are you using some sort of CMS?


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

Doesn't look like it.


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

No, but I think he is using EasySiteWizard 7.12

Hi Shaider

In my opinion it looks "homemade" and for a business site that is not a good thing.

The first thing that needs to happen is that you need to consider lining up the page elements. For instance the Product Knowledge, Industry Knowledge blocks should be placed in a 2X2 grid.

You seem to have a left hand column, but this gets lost in the mix as there is no clear distinction between that and the main content. The twenty four hour service and sales blocks need to stand out more, you can do this by placing them below the general content mix or above.

I would consider putting the trusted by logos in your footer and using the spot to say what it is the business does in that top spot. The client centred approach could find a neat spot in the left hand column.

Next, I would consider distinguishing the "page" from the background, currently everything is that bluish colour and as a result it makes it difficult to orientate ones-self.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

The home page is very messy. Simplify and focus.
It doesn't scale in Firefox.


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

Playing around a little this morning

Perhaps something along these lines:


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

shaider, send Caraewilton a check and hire her as a consultant.


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

Hughv said:


> shaider, send Caraewilton a check and hire her as a consultant.


Well, there's still a lot of flaws in his/her quickie, too. 

But indeed, it's much better than the previous versions.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Hughv said:


> shaider, send Caraewilton a check and hire her as a consultant.


I agree.  I think her version is great!



lordsmurf said:


> Well, there's still a lot of flaws in his/her quickie, too.


So, what do you *not* like about her version?

Peace...


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

Header too large.
Logo too large.
Clipart needs to go.
Trusted by is a potential legal issue.

... there are more.

Let me put it this way:
The OP posted a site that looks like it was made in 1998.
Cara quickly drew up a site that looks like it was around 2003-2005 or so.
Again, big improvement.
But some things being done in 2010 are missing.

Again, I'm giving constructive input here, don't get offended or defensive.


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## caraewilton (Nov 7, 2007)

lordsmurf said:


> Header too large.
> Logo too large.
> Clipart needs to go.
> Trusted by is a potential legal issue.
> ...


Well in fairness I was just using what was on the original site. The point was to illustrate how lining things up, using a grid and having a contrast between background and foreground would make a far neater layout ... well in my opinion 
The huge logo I turned into a slide show thing to bring attention to the Facility Management - Plant Maintenance - Emergency Service.
All said and done though, I must admit that if this were a paid job I would spend many more hours crafting images. For a Sunday morning project, bar the pics, no images were used for backgrounds, all css and html which works in all browsers from IE6 to Chrome. Perhaps I should point out, this is not a photoshop mock-up but a fully functional xhtm/CSS template.

That said, thanks for the compliments guys  Always makes a girl feel good.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

lordsmurf said:


> Header too large.
> Logo too large.
> Clipart needs to go.
> Trusted by is a potential legal issue.
> ...


Why would I be offended? I didn't have any part in this other than complimenting Cara on the great job she did. 

I think your criticisms are valid albeit premature, considering Cara wasn't tasked with making a replacement site. In any event, I was wanting to know which things you didn't like about her version and now I know. 

Peace...


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

> I must admit that if this were a paid job I would spend many more hours crafting images.


I figured as much.


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

It's not a bad website.

You've got an empty meta keywords tag. Not desperately important for SEO (search engine optimisation) today, but still an opportunity you've missed in the index page.

A contact form might be better than making people copy and paste email addresses.

The layout in the centre of the index page looks a little jagged. I think your content needs to be better organised.

Most importantly, you need some dynamic content, such as a blog, to stay relevant.

Ben Acheson


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

> Most importantly, you need some dynamic content, such as a blog, to stay relevant.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

This site would be a "no".


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

You're never going to rank without a decent volume or content


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

You also can't have a business site that's full of irrelevant crap just to "get rank".


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Mr Smurf, with respect, what on earth are you talking about?

Of course content has to be quality, relevant content. That goes without saying. I don't think anybody would seriously paste random text into their site.

Fundamentally, content is about users, so it has to be high quality, unique, relevant content.

Links will be built as a side-effect of having quality content that is kept up to date.

If your website has little content then there's little for search engines to rank you on. And if you don't keep refreshing the content then you constantly look out of date.

For the benefit of the OP, perhaps you could explain why their website would not benefit from having a wealth of up-to-date content?


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

The content is the products and marketing materials. I'm aggravated by this amateur "marketing" notion that every site needs a blog. That's beyond ridiculous, it's almost idiotic.

This is clearly a vendor type business, a B2B. Other businesses generally don't give a crap about reading your blog or articles -- that's the wrong demographic for that type of web media. 

Beyond that, I'm betting this is a secondary information venue for convenience. Primary contact amongst B2B tends to be referral, direct marketing, cold calling, etc --- not another company typing into Google.

Your advice may work for some consumer-targeted business, but it's way off base for this one.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Hmmmm... Methinks our Lord Smurf is a tough critic without self-esteem issues.
It would be easy and worthwhile to insert a Blog type dynamic component, not as easy to keep it up to date, which is the problem with such things. I hate to see "Dynamic" cotent that hasn't been refreshed in 6 months.
So, probably not "way off base", but it may present a commitment that many won't be able to satisfy.
I've got a couple of sities where the owner committed to a Blog, knowing the problems, and promptly abandoned it. That's rprobably worse than having none.


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

Same for Facebook and Twitter. People get talked into signing up because it's the in thing, but then it's not updated for 6 months because it's basically unnecessary for that kind of business or organization. Websites that advertise (give info) for senior care facilities, for example, don't need Twitter feeds and Facebook pages.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

This discussion has been an interesting read but I gotta side with lordsmurf on this. Adding dynamic content for the sake of having dynamic content isn't a good thing.

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Very interesting comments.

But if everything else is equal, except that your website has a higher volume of relevant content than a competitor's website, then your website will:

1) Have more content for search engines to index, and hence enjoy more ways of being found by search engines and users

2) Be regarded as more relevant due to the volume of relevant content, and hence be ranked more highly by search engines

3) Collect more relevant inbound links to your relevant content, hence enjoying increased Pagerank, and higher rankings in search results.

A blog is one way - and I suggest the easiest way - to continually add quality, relevant content.

So with the greatest of respect,_ it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that it has no value._

If you set up a blog and post nothing, or post irrelevant rubbish, then of course there are no benefits. You can post whatever relevant content you wish, regardless of your industry or channel.

For the reasons above, a properly executed blog is among the simplest and most powerful ways to increase clicks and sales.


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

You're still missing the point.



> being found by search engines and users


Not the demographic, so moot point.



> Be regarded as more relevant


According to who? Google? As in the Google that's not a customer and doesn't bring customers (because that's not how that target audience finds this sort of product/service), so it doesn't matter?



> hence enjoying increased Pagerank, and higher rankings in search results.


Neither of which actually matter here.
If this was a content based business, sure. Or obscure small business targeting consumers, sure.



> properly executed blog


But that's my point. Even having one creates an improperly executed site.

This is all marketing 101.
You don't communicate with businesses like you do general consumers.

I work with a vendor that has to turn away customers they're so busy. Their website has very little content, because that's all they need to easily communicate their handful of products. It ranks low, but it has zero effect. They actually use analytics in reverse, logging their business contacts, and then seeing if the site receives traffic from those geo locations within a week after contact.

Again, B2B is it's own animal.

Generic/amateur rules on SEO and marketing don't apply.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

My goodness!
Page Rank? Page rank has aways been irrelevant. Google and any SEO will tell you that.
I agree vehemently that dynamic content in the form of a Blog will help any site, but disagree to the same extent that they're easy. Good writing is hard to find, difficult to0 produce regularly, and quite rare outside of the professional writer's world.


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

With great respect, you appear to have a very restricted view of organisations and their goals. Every organisation without exception has stakeholders or 'customers' who they want to find out about them. Charities want volunteers and donors, politicians want voters.

So even if DSI Canada did not want to win any business, they would still want to recruit staff and investors, inform the press of their news, etc.

But DSI Canada is a sales company. They have customers all over the world who they could help to find them using phrases such as "warehouse layouts", "facility overhaul", "dock facilities", "dock safety", and more.

http://www.dsi-canada.com/services.html

The above page has a link called 'sales contacts'. That's because they want people to find them and make a sale.

If you think that this or any other organisation would not benefit from a higher profile, increased control over their online brand and reputation, and increased sales (at reduced cost per sale), then (again with respect) you might consider seeking another industry - because clearly you do not understand online business.

I can only assume you are joking when you say having a blog "creates an improperly executed site". In what way is having a blog improper for a website?


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

First businesses don't want customers.

Now Pagerank is irrelevant? I'm starting to wonder what kind of forum I've stumbled into here and I hesitate to even answer such a ludicrous comment, but clearly there are people here who have a lot to learn, so here goes:

Pagerank is relevant to any organisation that wants to achieve its goals. 

You bring people to your website to achieve your goals.

The higher your Pagerank, the easier it is for those target people to find you. Hence, the higher your Pagerank, the more you will achieve your goals.

And having your target audience find you organically online costs very little compared with other, more proactive traditional marketing, recruitment and communication activities.


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

I can only assume you've never worked with a B2B before. That's really all there is to it.

Ford and Coca-Cola, for example, won't go surf Google when they need something. They'll get specific information via direct marketing, referrals, and industry sources. If they don't enter the URL in the address bar, then they'll type the company name into Google. And surprise, it's first. Of all the B2B's I've ever worked with, logs confirm this overwhelmingly.

There are valid reasons to add blogs to a B2B (and I'm not going into it here -- that's part of why I get paid). And it does take a special kind of writer to do it well.

So far all you've given is regurgitated amateur/generic "SEO company" BS, much of which is outdated methodology. Next thing you'll tell me is that you need to submit your site to directory listings and write articles on content mills to generate inbounds.

Marketing is more than SERPs, keywords and meta tags.


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Marketing is more than SERPS, etc. But SEO offers vastly greater ROI than traditional marketing. It also has far greater potential reach. And the effects last for much longer than those of traditional marketing.

Business customers don't wait for direct marketing to drop through their door before conducting research or making decisions.

B2B digital marketing spend is expected to double this year.

http://www.ppa.co.uk/press-and-medi...eting-spend-forecast-to-double-in-five-years/

Are you seriously suggesting that B2B companies are wasting their money and should stick to traditional marketing, even though it is measurably more expensive and less effective?

People and organisations with outdated paper and print attitudes to marketing risk being left far behind. Don't be one of them.

Digital spend to exceed print in 2010:
http://www.sagittarius-digital.com/...marketing-spend-to-surpass-print-in-2010.aspx
http://www.outsellinc.com/press/press_releases/ad_study_2010

Indeed digital spend is already up by almost 50%:
http://www.komarketingassociates.com/industry-news/digital-ad-spend-grows-47-percent-in-2010$611.htm

B2B digital marketing to hit $48bn by 2014:
http://blogs.forrester.com/michael_...active_marketing_spending_hit_48_billion_2014

*B2B marketing success - case studies:*

*'Marketo spends about 50% more than comparable companies on Marketing but less on sales. Their customer acquisition cost are much less than other software companies... Marketo's blog is their single most effective marketing tactic. They've actually diverted marketing investment away from other activities and focused instead on blogging'*

http://www.toprankblog.com/2010/02/b2b-marketing-case-study-marketo/

http://www.komarketingassociates.com/success.php

http://www.marketingexperiments.com/improving-website-conversion/b2b-success-stories.html

http://blog.marketo.com/blog/2010/05/b2b-social-media-success.html

http://www.silverbean.co.uk/online-marketing-case-studies.aspxhttp://www.toprankblog.com/2010/02/b2b-marketing-case-study-marketo/


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Wow, this discussion certainly got lively.  Great comments on BOTH sides! :up:

Still, I think lordsmurf is making great points. Sure, it's great to have great position in search results but that's irrelevant if your primary or majority of customers don't find you through a search engine. 

@benacheson: In the case of DSI Canada, do you think their site would benefit from a blog? If so, how? Would kind of content would go in the blog that would warrant them having a blog?

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Hi Tom

If a significant number of your customers, potential employees, investors, journalists etc., don't find you through a search engine using keywords relating to you then some SEO is needed.

DSI Canada would benefit from a blog because:

1) It could keep customers engaged over what I suspect is a very long sales cycle.

2) An increased volume of quality, keyword-relevant content would secure inbound links, which combined with the content itself would boost rankings for relevant keywords.

Content would be aimed at all target stakeholders, who need to be thoroughly understood. Content about their interests and problems should be posted - not sales pitches. The goal is content, relevance and engagement. From those three things come links, rankings and sales.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Thanks for the reply. 



benacheson said:


> If a significant number of your customers, potential employees, investors, journalists etc., don't find you through a search engine using keywords relating to you then some SEO is needed.


Understood. Now, what if a significant number of my customers or investors are NOT using a search engine to locate me? I believe this is lordsmurf's point. Is your counter point then that businesses use general purpose search engines instead of direct marketing to seek out vendors or other businesses to patronize or partner with?

I'm in the process of having the catalytic converter in my car replaced. I've done TONS and TONS of searches on Google for a replacement part and have found a bunch. I ended up going with having one built by a local company that a friend found for me using "insider" channels (he works for a parts dept at a car dealership). He didn't locate this company through web searches but through a "word of mouth " referral. This company generally works with car repair shops, not the general public. How would SEO help them?



> DSI Canada would benefit from a blog because:
> 
> 1) It could keep customers engaged over what I suspect is a very long sales cycle.


Cool. How? I would imagine a *publicly accessible* blog wouldn't contain info on the negotiations in any given sales cycle with a potential customer. Once the general sales info has been published on the site, even on a static page, what other content would there be to feed the blog? I mean a blog is an online journal, like a diary. When people keep journals, they update it with thoughts, feelings, rants, ideas, and anything else that is worth documenting. Other than the info already posted on the site (format and organization not withstanding), what else do you think DSI Canada could post in a blog that would be relevant and worthwhile?



> 2) An increased volume of quality, keyword-relevant content would secure inbound links, which combined with the content itself would boost rankings for relevant keywords.


I used to maintain a website for a cosmetic dentist who is obsessed with achieving and maintaining high SERP. We've found, through Google webmaster tools, that while the site's impressions numbers are high, the click through rate is practically non-existent. This tells me, people aren't visiting the website from Google despite the site appearing in great positions.



> Content would be aimed at all target stakeholders, who need to be thoroughly understood. Content about their interests and problems should be posted - not sales pitches. The goal is content, relevance and engagement. From those three things come links, rankings and sales.


Agreed. My question is: can't this be achieved through static pages? I mean in the case of a business, the "problems" they are in a position to solve won't change frequently. More importantly, if the target stakeholders are thoroughly understood, to use your words, then I think you've made lordsmurf's point. If Ford is looking for a company to partner with in support of a new car they plan to build, I don't think they will use Google to locate that company. Do you?

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

"I ended up going with having one built by a local company that a friend found"

Some local, specialised, or indirect-channel businesses might benefit less from SEO. But their customers may still search for them. If you or the gentleman in the repair shop had Googled and found a well-optimised suitable site, you might have bought. If you'd searched using the town name you might even have driven there but still they would have secured the business online if their site was properly optimised for search and conversions.

"while the site's impressions numbers are high, the click through rate is practically non-existent"

This is an argument *for* improved SEO - to increase the conversion rate.

"can't this be achieved through static pages... the "problems" they are in a position to solve won't change frequently?"

Absolutely. If your content is relevant and high quality then it will draw links, clicks and repeat visits. It will bring in your target audience and keep them engaged.

The content _absolutely does not have to be in the form of a blog. _But issues to change and become out of date. A new model of catalytic converter for example, or a fault with an existing model.

And a blog is much easier to maintain piecemeal, as and when convenient or when something relevant arises - without one big commitment of time and effort to produce the content. With a blog the content is easy to build and always up to date.

So for the majority of businesses SEO and digital marketing - and blogs - can be hugely beneficial - if properly planned and implemented.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

benacheson said:


> "I ended up going with having one built by a local company that a friend found"
> 
> Some local, specialised, or indirect-channel businesses might benefit less from SEO. But their customers may still search for them. If you or the gentleman in the repair shop had Googled and found a well-optimised suitable site, you might have bought. If you'd searched using the town name you might even have driven there but still they would have secured the business online if their site was properly optimised for search and conversions.


I called my friend, who works in the parts dept of the car dealership, and asked him for help in locating the part. He *did not* use a general purpose search engine. Instead, he used his internal contacts and internal part locating channels. It was one of *those* contacts that made him aware of the company I ended up effectively "hiring" on behalf of my mechanic. lol (It's funny to me to hear myself phrase it that way) So, I did a Google search on "Catalytic converter builder in california" and didn't find anything even closely relating to the company I went with, not even competitors. Why would someone, like in my friend's position, use inside channels to locate resources instead of using a general purpose search engine?

The business I went with has lots of customers, but then again, those will be other car repair places. In fact, when I was paying them for the converter they built for my car, they kept asking me for the name of the "muffler shop" I was working with, not the "mechanic". Additionally, they had my account tied to the mechanic I was dealing with, not me even though *I* contacted them and arranged for them to work with my mechanic. Of course, I don't expect you to have known any of that background info but the point is similar to lordsmurf's, not all (or maybe even most) businesses will or do use general search engines to locate vendors or partners. Or do you think most businesses use a general purpose search engine instead of inside channels or direct marketing material?

Given the DSI Canada website is all we have to go on to learn about the business, what aspects of the site give you the impression a significant percentage of their customers would locate them through searches on general purpose search engines vs using "insider" channels (direct marketing, etc)?



> "while the site's impressions numbers are high, the click through rate is practically non-existent"
> 
> This is an argument *for* improved SEO - to increase the conversion rate.


Actually, they've hired a SEO company to do more SEO and the impression rates have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY! So, it's obvious that the site is gaining more visibility in search results but high visibility doesn't translate into clicks. In fact, the conversion rate really hasn't changed much despite the significantly increased impression rate.



> The content _absolutely does not have to be in the form of a blog. _But issues to change and become out of date. A new model of catalytic converter for example, or a fault with an existing model.


The catalytic converter is a bad example to support your point but your point is well taken and I agree with it. However, the question is: will there be sufficient change, in the case of DSI Canada, to justify a blog?



> And a blog is much easier to maintain piecemeal, as and when convenient or when something relevant arises - without one big commitment of time and effort to produce the content. With a blog the content is easy to build and always up to date.


I think this would be an incorrect use of a blog. The most important and relevant info would or should be in the static content and the blog be used to further explore those issues, if people (customers, whomever) wanted to go deeper into them. I think you've described a great reason to use a CMS. With a good CMS, important content can be updated quickly and easily and without much effort.

Now, what are your thoughts on my other comments in my post above? 



> > Quote:
> > Originally Posted by benacheson View Post
> > If a significant number of your customers, potential employees, investors, journalists etc., don't find you through a search engine using keywords relating to you then some SEO is needed.
> 
> ...





> > Quote:
> > DSI Canada would benefit from a blog because:
> >
> > 1) It could keep customers engaged over what I suspect is a very long sales cycle.
> ...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

*I did a Google search on "Catalytic converter builder in california" and didn't find anything even closely relating to the company"*

If the same catalytic converter company had a well optimised local online presence, perhaps you would have found them. The fact that businesses like these fail to help people find them online will certainly not encourage people to use search to find those sorts of business.

*"He did not use a general purpose search engine. Instead, he used his internal contacts and internal part locating channels"*

Indeed. Plenty of sales are made completely offline in this way. That will never change. People may never buy a hot dog online from a street vendor. Without doubt there are sectors to which search is utterly unsuited.

Perhaps the catalytic converter business is one of those.
But I suggest that this may alter somewhat, over time, as:

1) More people become familiar with the internet to buy and sell
2) Buyers become more sophisticated users of search
3) Search technology improves
4) Smaller, more specialised businesses increase utilisation of the internet
5) Smaller, more specialised businesses become better optimised

A high number of impressions doesn't automatically translate into a high number of clicks. But if the SEOs in the dentist example are doing their job properly then there is clearly demand from interested searchers - and hence for those services.

In many cases - perhaps a dentist is a good example - customers will find the address or telephone number in the search results and call or visit in person. I would suggest that if there are a significant number of impressions for truly relevant keywords - but no change in clicks, visits, or calls, then the website is failing to funnel impressions into conversions. There are many possible reasons for this.

DSI Canada could keep customers engaged with well-researched compelling content aimed at their target market.

I think is worth noting that a business like this, specialising in very large projects, will likely have very small operating volumes. They may only be working on one project at a time and that may take years.

These would be extremely high value contracts. So a handful of clicks and one or two conversions per year could be extremely lucrative. This would be a good prescription for pay-per-click advertising, which would be complemented (and make cheaper) by good SEO.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

benacheson said:


> *I did a Google search on "Catalytic converter builder in california" and didn't find anything even closely relating to the company"*
> 
> If the same catalytic converter company had a well optimised local online presence, perhaps you would have found them. The fact that businesses like these fail to help people find them online will certainly not encourage people to use search to find those sorts of business.


True. However, I *also* stated I didn't find _any_ of their competitors. What are the chances that NONE of these companies would have a well optimized online presence?



> *"He did not use a general purpose search engine. Instead, he used his internal contacts and internal part locating channels"*
> 
> Indeed. Plenty of sales are made completely offline in this way. That will never change. People may never buy a hot dog online from a street vendor. Without doubt there are sectors to which search is utterly unsuited.


Ok, it's good to know you're at least open to this concept.  Now, how do we know DSI Canada is or is not one of these kinds of companies? One way would be to get a sense of that from the content on their website. Clearly, lordsmurf got the impression DSI Canada isn't the kind of company that attracts customers from the general public. Do you get a different impression?



> Perhaps the catalytic converter business is one of those.


Given how they listed the mechanic as the contact for the work I hired them to do, I would think they are definitely one of those kinds of companies. I don't see how any other conclusion is possible.



> But I suggest that this may alter somewhat, over time, as:
> 
> 1) More people become familiar with the internet to buy and sell
> 2) Buyers become more sophisticated users of search
> ...


I think some of these things are true today. Above, I indicated I was doing web searches seeking out the part to *buy* for my car. The company I ended up dealing with didn't make the part I needed for the general public to buy.



> A high number of impressions doesn't automatically translate into a high number of clicks. But if the SEOs in the dentist example are doing their job properly then there is clearly demand from interested searchers - and hence for those services.


Yep, most definitely. The difference here is the dentist's practice is one geared toward the general public. In the cases lordsmurf cited, those companies seeking to deal with other companies will most likely use the avenues and channels most prudent for their needs and those channels won't be Google or Bing.



> In many cases - perhaps a dentist is a good example - customers will find the address or telephone number in the search results and call or visit in person. I would suggest that if there are a significant number of impressions for truly relevant keywords - but no change in clicks, visits, or calls, then the website is failing to funnel impressions into conversions. There are many possible reasons for this.


Unfortunately, in the case of that dentist, they didn't do a good job of tracking the actual sources of contacts from new patients. They tell me a lot of their biz comes from "the internet" but they can't tell me any more than that. So, I don't think they have a good sense the actual impact the SEO they are paying for is having on the practice.



> DSI Canada could keep customers engaged with well-researched compelling content aimed at their target market.


Such as? You've got their current website content to give you an idea of the nature of their business. What would be "compelling content" they would keep updated in a blog that would be relevant?



> I think is worth noting that a business like this, specialising in very large projects, will likely have very small operating volumes. They may only be working on one project at a time and that may take years.
> 
> These would be extremely high value contracts. So a handful of clicks and one or two conversions per year could be extremely lucrative. This would be a good prescription for pay-per-click advertising, which would be complemented (and make cheaper) by good SEO.


Unless their leeds are generated through direct marketing or other industry specific channels (journals, trade shows, etc). Right?

I guess you still haven't really indicated *why* the DSI Canada website could benefit from the things you mention other than the general "having lots of great content is good for SEO" idea, which is something we all already know. Again, having a blog for the sake of having a blog isn't really fulfilling the idea of "having lots of great content" on the site, right?

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Tom I don't understand why you can't see relevant Google results for ''Catalytic converter builder in california"

I searched Google.com with the same phrase and there were plenty.

Ranking first was magnaflow.com

Their site has a Google Pagerank of 4 and is quite well optimised, although some of their deeper pages are better optimised than their index page/TLD.

They have news pages with an RSS feed - this is basically a blog without comments and they could easily turn it into a blog to get additional interest and more content for free.

The kind of content they host - such as videos - would have a broad appeal. This is actually a great example of the many of the key points I am trying to make here about content that appeals to a relevant audience and also acts as link bait. Indeed the content may explain the links they have won to get a good Pagerank of 4. That's the same Pagerank as the website of one of the world's leading seo experts - randz.net. Magnaflow are also on Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, and others, with feeds on their website.

I also searched Google.co.uk (I'm in the UK) for the more generic keyword 'catalytic converters california' and again got a number of relevant results on the first and second pages.

First in the list was discountconverter.com

Their site has a Google pagerank of 3 and the site is reasonably well optimised.

It would be really odd if you couldn't find sites like these in Google, I'm not sure what you are doing.

The dentist example does not ring true either. I would love to see how they are approaching SEO and analytics - and how they measure their different categores of conversion (online and offline).

DSI Canada may not want to attract customers from among the general public. But they will certainly want employees and possibly investors from among the general public. And with good content they might target members of the general public who are active online for inbound links.

But most importantly, I don't think they would seriously turn away a customer finding them online and wanting to place a $2m order. Do you?

So it's really not rocket science that of course they should still optimise their site. This argument is getting a bit ridiculous, don't you think? Clearly just a handful of clicks and just one or two conversions per year could fill their new business pipeline to capacity, due to the size of the projects they undertake around the world.

The word 'world' is also important here. A good online presence can enable many local businesses to market their products and services around the globe. DSI is a global business and the web facilitates that.

I can't suggest content for DSI or for a catalytic converter company or anybody else. It's their business, their industry, their passion and their content. The Magnaflow example clearly shows that you can produce content that does exactly what I have said it can do.

I'm a little confused by your suggestion that I "still haven't really indicated *why* the DSI Canada website could benefit from the things you mention".

I think I've repeated the benefits again and again. But here are some of them:

1) Drawing in customers and also journalists, bloggers and linkers, with relevant, optimised content.

2) Keeping those target people engaged with more content through the sales cycle, until they convert (buy, link to you, donate, apply for a job, whatever you want them to do).

3) Increased Pagerank, keyword relevance, rankings, leading to:

4) increased clicks, conversions and goals (sales, recruitment, donations... whatever you are trying to achieve.)

5) Improved reputation - becoming known as a trusted authority on the subject.

6) Getting the message into the media, trade press, etc. A PR opportunity and also an opportunity to shape opinion about the business.

I'm confident that DSI and virtually any business organisation in the world would benefit from these things.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

benacheson said:


> Tom I don't understand why you can't see relevant Google results for ''Catalytic converter builder in california"
> 
> I searched Google.com with the same phrase and there were plenty.
> 
> ...


Magnaflow isn't the same kind of company I ended up going with. They manufacture after market parts for various makes of cars. The company I found isn't that kind of company. On the Magnaflow site, I found the part I had made for more than DOUBLE the cost AND they had a list of dealers (general auto part stores) where I could buy the part, if I didn't order it through them online. Lastly, I'm not sure Magnaflow is even based in California (not that it matters if they sell their parts through local stores). Additionally, Magnaflow makes auto parts other than catalytic converters. The company I found specializes in catalytic converters. That is all they do. So once again, I wasn't even able to find a competitor to the company I found locally (through insider channels) when I searched on those terms.



> The kind of content they host - such as videos - would have a broad appeal. This is actually a great example of the many of the key points I am trying to make here about content that appeals to a relevant audience and also acts as link bait.


Yep, I agree. It's just Magnaflow is targetting a different audience than the company I went with.



> I also searched Google.co.uk (I'm in the UK) for the more generic keyword 'catalytic converters california' and again got a number of relevant results on the first and second pages.
> 
> First in the list was discountconverter.com
> 
> Their site has a Google pagerank of 3 and the site is reasonably well optimised.


They also sell catalytic converters for my model of car but not one I can legally install. Again, this is a different kind of company than the local one I found. Discountconverter.com appears to be based in Texas. So, even if they did carry a part I could have used, I would have to deal with shipping costs, to/from them if I needed to return it. In my case, I saved a TON of money by going with a local company located through an insider channel. In my case, a general search engine didn't help but the insider channel did.



> The dentist example does not ring true either. I would love to see how they are approaching SEO and analytics - and how they measure their different categores of conversion (online and offline).


By "they", if you are referring to the people in the office, they are basically putting their trust in the SEO company. If by "they" you are referring to the SEO company they hired, I don't know what their actual approach is but from what I can see in site changes they are making, I'm seeing signs of their work and they are increasing inbound links significantly. They produce some reports that show the results of their work but from what we can monitor through Google webmaster tools, some of the improvements the dentist office hoped to see aren't really happening.



> DSI Canada may not want to attract customers from among the general public. But they will certainly want employees and possibly investors from among the general public. And with good content they might target members of the general public who are active online for inbound links.


Agreed. Why would a blog be used for this? Or would a blog be used for this? I wouldn't think it would but you might think differently. Again, this is the kind of thing static content serves well.



> But most importantly, I don't think they would seriously turn away a customer finding them online and wanting to place a $2m order. Do you?


Nope. Is it likely they would be contacted by a company wanting to do $2M of business with them through a search in a general purpose search engine? I'm thinking not but who knows. 



> So it's really not rocket science that of course they should still optimise their site. This argument is getting a bit ridiculous, don't you think? Clearly just a handful of clicks and just one or two conversions per year could fill their new business pipeline to capacity, due to the size of the projects they undertake around the world.


I do agree it's getting a bit ridiculous. Unfortunately, we don't know if a "handful of clicks" would lead to any business, given the apparent nature of their business (based on the current site content). Sure, a handful of clicks might result in them finding some great employees but that's not what we're talking about. The "clarity" you mention just isn't there.



> The word 'world' is also important here. A good online presence can enable many local businesses to market their products and services around the globe. DSI is a global business and the web facilitates that.


Yep, I wholeheartedly agree. However, this is exactly the kind of generic boilerplate statement lordsmurf mentioned previously! lol



> I can't suggest content for DSI or for a catalytic converter company or anybody else. It's their business, their industry, their passion and their content. The Magnaflow example clearly shows that you can produce content that does exactly what I have said it can do.


Well, at the very least I thank you for admitting this. IMO, this bolsters the point that dynamic content, for the sake of dynamic content isn't a good thing.



> I'm a little confused by your suggestion that I "still haven't really indicated *why* the DSI Canada website could benefit from the things you mention".
> 
> I think I've repeated the benefits again and again. But here are some of them:
> 
> ...


Here is my statement:


> *I guess you still haven't really indicated why the DSI Canada website could benefit from the things you mention other than the general "having lots of great content is good for SEO" idea, which is something we all already know*. Again, having a blog for the sake of having a blog isn't really fulfilling the idea of "having lots of great content" on the site, right?


As indicated previously in this thread, you are not providing specific reasons why the DSI Canada website would benefit from a blog. I've asked what kind of content they would put in that blog and you haven't given any ideas. The "any company would benefit from a blog on their site" general, blanket statement isn't washing here, hence the push back.

Dynamic content can be great because it's "fresh" and new. However, it should be used as deemed appropriate and it doesn't appear to be appropriate in the case of DSI Canada. You indicate the contrary but have yet to demonstrate why. I've demonstrated, in my anecdotal example, how an insider channel worked well to produce a desired result and that result involved a B2B-esque transaction. The catalytic converter company has been working directly with my repair shop, with the difference being I initiated the connection between the two. That was done without any involvement of the web and I'm thinking is mostly likely the norm for these kinds of transactions.

No one disputes having great content is essential. We just disagree on which kinds of content would be appropriate for the DSI Canada site and/or other businesses that need other B2B contacts (like the other corporations mentioned previously).

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks Tom. I think it's been a really interesting debate!


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

At first, I lost interest in this thread and then the exchange between you and lordsmurf drew me back in. 

In fact, this has given me an idea for a new thread I'll probably start soon. 

Take care!

Peace...


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## benacheson (Sep 8, 2010)

Great, I'll look out for the new thread! 

Kind regards

Ben


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

In terms of company image, this very thread may actually harm DSI Canada. TSG probably has good enough SEO that it will hit page 1 SERPs, and show that the company has used relatively amateur venues to seek advice on their company. That can go over badly with some audiences and demographics. Oops.

SEO can matter to DSI and a B2B, but in more advanced ways not discussed here and generally not considered, or even understood, by laymen and amateurs. And honestly, it's nothing beyond standard marketing/ad/PR/comm methodology as taught and performed pre-Internet._

(Sorry, but it takes a lot of time, often requires often-confidential information, and is customized to that business and/or industry. There's not really a generic solution for certain B2B's, like there is for other business sectors. Again, that's the kind of information I'm paid for, as part of a bigger marketing/PR plan. I can't do everything pro bono, you know! So I'm not just going to lay out a whole plan for DSI here.)_

Tom, you're always welcome to PM me, if you want my input on the new thread. I don't want to miss it.


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

Lots of stuff going on here. If you want a clearer picture and somewhat more professional answers, give Jill Whalen's site a try.
The forums are very helpful:
http://www.highrankings.com/forum/


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Hughv said:


> Lots of stuff going on here. If you want a clearer picture and somewhat more professional answers, give Jill Whalen's site a try.
> The forums are very helpful:
> http://www.highrankings.com/forum/


You know, I've visited that forum but I guess the admin doesn't like me since my registration attempts have always failed. *sigh*

Peace...


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## Hughv (Jul 22, 2006)

I've subscribed to their newsletter for years and gotten some pro level help there.
Good people with good, in-depth info.


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## tomdkat (May 6, 2006)

Ok, I'll consider doing that. 

Thanks!

Peace...


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