# Light Switch does not work



## stark507 (May 14, 2011)

Hello,
In our garage we have a light switch that controls an outdoor light (attached to the outside of the garage) and an outlet. Our house is brand new and the switch worked a few times but has since stopped working, so neither the light or outlet work.


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## stark507 (May 14, 2011)

I put in a new switch and it still got nothing...


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## K7M (Feb 27, 2000)

Look for a GFI all outdoor outlets and garage circuits are required to be on a GFI protected circuit.


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## stark507 (May 14, 2011)

The outside outlet is a GFI


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## Koot (Nov 25, 2007)

Did you check the circuit breaker that protects the [problem] circuit?


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## stark507 (May 14, 2011)

Circut breaker works. It actually hasn't worked for a few years now..we finally deceided to try and fix it


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## Koot (Nov 25, 2007)

stark507 said:


> Circut breaker works. It actually hasn't worked for a few years now..we finally deceided to try and fix it


So...for some unknown reason the circuit breaker that protects the problem circuit was not working correctly, but you recently decided to "fix it". And...now that you [somehow] fixed the circuit breaker (that protects the problem circuit) the outdoor light and receptacle "worked a few times but has since stopped working."

You did not say 'why' the circuit breaker had not been working correctly. Nor did you say 'what' you did to fix it, which leads me to ask the following question. Do you think the circuit breaker (that didn't used to work correctly) might still not be working correctly...even though you think you decided to "fix it"?

It seems this circuit breaker is the most likely component to look at closer as the culprit since there was (and likely still is) a problem with it. That's where I would focus my attention - the circuit breaker.


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Along with the other advice, I would it odd that a breaker would go out; but would just serve on plug and switch. Is that the only thing not working?

Do you have a meter? You can measure the voltage off the breaker.
So recall... Lots of wires and voltage in that main panel.


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## downriver (Dec 11, 2004)

I did electrical work for a living for a long time, now retired, but still pretty well informed. (Licensed California contractor.)

1 - my summary is check and/or replace that GFCI first (instructions below)

2 - check the breaker only if the GFCI is found to NOT be the problem

But I will talk about breakers first:

One does not "fix" a circuit breaker; one REPLACES it. If your house is as new as you suggest, new breakers for the panel should be easy to find at virtually any hardware store. (Compatibility with existing panel is absolutely essential; best to take the old one with you to the store, if you're going to "DYI" this -- which I do not reccommend, unless you are comfortable with working inside an electrical panel.) But first off, try flipping the breaker on and off a few times (with MAIN POWER OFF), then turn the MAIN back on, then the breaker. Finally, after all this, plug-in or turn-on whatever wasn't working before. You might be done. (If you do go into the panel, this is a good chance to tighten down EVERYTHING. Most Utility Companys' and feeders to subpanels are aluminum, and the hubs to which these feeders connect need to be re-tightened periodically due to hot/cold expansion/contraction of the wires and connectors. A screwdriver and the proper sized allen-wrench are all you need.)

(If this DOES fix the problem -- look to the builder for fixing this, or repaying you for doing it; you may also have recourse via a Home Warranty, pretty common in recent decades, so check that, too. I have breakers in my own home that are now over 30 years old, so these things are pretty durable, if they are made properly in the first place. I also check them all every couple of years, but haven't had to replace one here yet. You will not have testing gear for this, so all you can do is turn off main and flipp all the breakers a couple of times to get rid of any superficial corrosion that might accumulate.)

But I strongly suspect the GFCI is the more likely culprit. ALL circuits in garages, outdoors, and/or indoor recepticles ("plugs") that are within two (2) feet of an operable, exterior door (as well as ALL kitchen and bathroom circuits) are required by NEC (National Electrical Code, adopted by most States) to be GFCI protected. GFCI's have test and re-set buttons, and should be tested fairly often in any case. You say you have a GFCI somewhere near the problem unit? It is very likely that the problem unit is wired THROUGH the GFCI because everything "downstream" of that device will be protected by it; this is a common, and perfectly safe, cost-saving technique; the alternative is a GFCI circuit breaker in the main panel, which is rarely done in residential construction (quite a bit more expensive, with no real benefits). (And here, "protected" may mean "dysfunctional.") So try re-setting that GFCI before anything else. That alone could solve the problem, a simple re-set (but leaves the question of what caused the GFCI to "trip" in the first place... another problem in that circuit, somewhere... or possibly just one bad tool plugged into it tripped it) These devices used to cost around $35-50, but are now made very cheaply and can be found for under $10... do we think these units are the same quality / longevity as the older, more expensive ones...?

[It's worth saying what a GFCI is and does. This is a "Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter." It is similar to a circuit breaker, but vastly more sensitive to differences in potential in a given circuit. It's technology made possible by the availability of small chips that can measure micro-volts. A GFCI will shut off current before you even feel a shock, where a breaker only shuts down at a certain temperature, hopefully before the wires start to burn, which could happen AFTER your heart has been stopped by a "short." These things have saved more lives than we will ever know about. They be Good Things, but can also cause problems like yours that seem hard to pin-point.]

Again, you do not "fix" a device like this; you replace it. It wires the same as an ordinary "plug" (duplex recepticle), except that the GFCI has pig-tail wires you tie to the system wires, rather than screws. Unlike working inside a main electrical panel, most careful people can do a simple swap-out of a GFCI, with the power to that circuit turned OFF at the panel.

But bottom line is (in my view) to talk this over with the builder/developer and/or agent who sold the house. Depending on your State's laws and contract terms, you may be able to get this fixed by a professional electrician, at the builder's cost (or cost to the warranty underwriter).

Hope all that verbiage helps!


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## Drabdr (Nov 26, 2007)

Great post downriver. Thanks for taking the time.


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## downriver (Dec 11, 2004)

Thanks, drabder. But one more thing is important. We have all been focusing on the idea that one or another device is faulty. But, any circuit in your house can have problems that have nothing to do with devices, switches, etc, breakers, or GFCI's, at least not directly. You can have loose connections in junction boxes, or, heck..., even mice and other critters can, and OFTEN do, chew through conductors. (It's a major cause of house fires.)

Intermitant problems like you seem to be having, in fact, are more likely to be something like a loose connection or something else that really only a qualified electrician, or very talented amateur, will be able to find and fix. The conductors (powered OFF) need to be tested for continuity and (turned back ON -- so be VERY careful) you test for voltage. This is all pretty straight forward (tho tedious) for somebody who has a good-to-fair understanding of how electricity moves over wires, how to avoid ground-shorts when handling bare-stripped conductors, etc.

But if you are at all uncomfortable and do not understand house wiring, you can kill yourself. Forgive the hyperbole, but this is real and happens to trained electricians. I've had a few close calls myself. That said, and even if you feel confident, I strongly advise reviewing even a handyman-level DIY book/mag before going past just replacing the GFCI. 

You've already swapped-out the switch, and the GFCI is similar: color-to-color, and fasten the "wire nuts" over twisted-together connectors, with the "wire nuts" supplied with the device (orange).

Again, the builder and sales agent should be talked to about warrantys, and most States have laws that require builders to respond appropriately to problems, within a reasonable time-frame. If you need to hire an electrician, see if you can't get it done on somebody else's dime; we all have to take responsibility for our work-product.

END OF LECTURE... Please be careful and realistic about your skills. In main panels, you may have as much as 200 amps @ 240 volts at the hub and on the buss-bars. If you're lucky working a hot box, a slip of a screwdriver might just blow you across the room in what feels like a quantum leap, without 3rd degree burns. (personal story...)

Thanx for letting me shoot my mouth off. I have used the computer-tech forums a lot, for years, and like it when I can "pay it forward"!


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