# Is your printer spying on you?



## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

OK, so this isn't really news -- apparently it's been known since 2005, but I just found out about it a few minutes ago.

We have a color laser printer at the office that we use to print labels on, but we only need to print one or two labels at a time. As a result, a single sheet of labels may be put through the printer 20 times before it's finished. We started noticing what we called a "leaking" of yellow. It was barely visible, but there was bits of yellow across the page. When you only print a single page, you'd never notice it. But that little bit of yellow built up after being put through the printer multiple times.










Well, fast forward a few months. We get a brand new HP LaserJet 3235 today. Nice printer. But... it has the same problem! How strange is that?

I did a little research and it turns out that these yellow dots are actually imprinted "secretly" on to every sheet printed in order to identify the printer's make, serial number, and the date/time that the document was printed. Wow!

Here is some additional information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_steganography
https://www.eff.org/issues/printers

The lesson here is: don't use your color laserjet to print those ransom notes... or anything else you wouldn't want to be traced back to you!

Here is a list from the EFF of printers that do and do not create these hidden "signatures"
https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots


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## LauraMJ (Mar 18, 2004)




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## JustJudy (Apr 4, 2006)

I have noticed those dots also and just chalked it up to cheap equipment and supplies. Thanks for the information. They could have at least made the dots look like the big dipper


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## Ent (Apr 11, 2009)

Yikes. That is really scary.

Easy fix though. Print the ransom notes on yellow paper!


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## 1002richards (Jan 29, 2006)

Coupled with this info .... we're being watched!!
"At a warehouse in New Jersey, 6,000 used copy machines sit ready to be sold. *CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian* reports almost every one of them holds a secret.

Nearly every digital copier built since 2002 contains a hard drive - like the one on your personal computer - storing an image of every document copied, scanned, or emailed by the machine.

In the process, it's turned an office staple into a digital time-bomb packed with highly-personal or sensitive data.

If you're in the identity theft business it seems this would be a pot of gold.

"The type of information we see on these machines with the social security numbers, birth certificates, bank records, income tax forms," John Juntunen said, "that information would be very valuable."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/19/eveningnews/main6412439.shtml


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## linuxphile (Mar 6, 2003)

I'm against this kind of thing on principal alone. 

Mikie and I have had the conversation that if you're doing nothing wrong then you've nothing to worry about. I disagree with this. What about an anonymous letter to...anyone? 

More disturbing is the article linked by 1002richards. What is the purpose of storing, permanently, an image of everything ever printed or copied? Orwell was right, big brother is watching....I'm going back to my Victory coffee.


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## gypsygrace (Oct 18, 2008)

Was going to say, I hope not, I'd hate to look over and see it watching me. 

But reading more and with what 1002Richards says, oh my, this is not good. 

We are in the digital age. Just about everything can be tracked back to the "source".


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

And I hate to say I think every printer/copier print some sort of identification on every page, usually too small to notice.


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## aka Brett (Nov 25, 2008)

So much for anonymous.
IMO a sticker should be attached on the side of each machine having the feature.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

No point - --- as I said EVERY printer photocopier etc. does it.


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## TechGuy (Feb 12, 1999)

It is not every printer or photocopier. It is most color laser printers. You can see the EFF's site for a list of those that do and do not have this "feature."

https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots


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## Frank4d (Sep 10, 2006)

Another technology that has been around for years is the Counterfeit Deterrence System: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_Counterfeit_Deterrence_Group. If you try to scan a $20 bank note (for example) the scanner either refuses, or you get a popup warning that what you are attempting to do is illegal. Supposedly the technology isn't able to phone home details as to the computer that made the attempt. But you can't really trust the government to tell the truth.


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## ozziebeanie (Jun 24, 2009)

Ent said:


> Yikes. That is really scary.
> 
> Easy fix though. Print the ransom notes on yellow paper!


 Good idea hahaha :up:

I do wonder, I have had a couple of government contract IT jobs and a small part of what I did was disposal of computers and printers and at no time was it mentioned to me to have any drives from printers removed, makes you wonder if those sort of policies are in place in other places.

No matter if someone thinks government or any business for that matter, thinks things should not be kept secret, some things should, e.g police records copied or printed from the data base.

If printers hard drives save a copy of everything that is printed someones personal information could be in the wrong hands, or information that should not be released early.

It is scary though, the thought my own personal information could be out there somewhere (no Police record here - have checked hahaha - used to work for them) on a printer hard drive, although I think with what information I have on the net, it probably makes it easy for someone into identity fraud to find out more anyway.

Beanie


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## lordsmurf (Apr 23, 2009)

I knew about this in the 1990s. This tech has been around for quite a long time now.
Those who worked in banks, and would potentially deal with note forgery, were aware of it.
That's when I learned about it.

Not sure I'd call it "spying" though -- it's more complicated than that.


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## DaveBurnett (Nov 11, 2002)

It has been around ever since laser printers were invented - well certainly with IBM lasers.
I did a lot of research at IBM in the late 80s on printer drivers and was one of the first to develop full page mixed text and graphic printing applications on 3820s and 4224 printers. At that time it was early days for graphics and the processing was very inefficient. Also the vast majority of computers around were still mainframe based and those usually only produced text output (GDDM was around but very expensive in time and resources as well as money).
So I developed printer drivers that used embedded text codes that could be output by standard line print applications to control the printers.
The laser printers even then produced a very small faint dots and I spent ages trying to find the bugs in my drivers.
When you realise you can output 64K of readable text to a single A4 sheet any stray dots become noticeable and annoying.


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