# Solved: Invalid system disk... Windows 98 problem



## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

about last week my mate gave me his computer so i can lan with my computer so i came 2 install the games but i found that he had alot of junk on his computer and it was running a bit slow so i decided to format it... his computer is a hp pavilion,pretty old one.

i formated the c: drive and after that i accidently restarted the computer..

and ever since then i have been getting a message that says "invalid system disk, replace and press any key" so i made a few boot up disks from various sites but none of them will work... ive tried to change around the boot sequence in BIOS but it still wont work.. i dont know what to do. 

the only thing i havent done yet is made a boot up disk from another windows 98 computer because i dont have access to one and i dont know which one to make. im trying to install windows 98 Second edition.

any help please would be appreciated i cant seem to figure out this one...


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

You can download a program to create a Win98SE bootup floppy from this website:

http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win98_img.exe

Download that program and save it to the Desktop. Put a CLEAN, preferably NEW floppy disk into the floppy drive. WARNING: ALL EXISTING DATA ON THE FLOPPY DISK WILL BE ERASED! Double-click on the win98_img.exe file, then follow the prompts to create the disk.

Put it into the floppy drive of the defective computer, and boot from it. Once you get to the A: prompt, which will look like this: A:\>, follow the instructions provided here:

http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/win9x_install.htm

If you run into trouble, post here again, and let us know exactly what type of problem you're having, or EXACTLY which error message you're seeing, and someone will help you.

Keep us posted on your progress...


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

Thanks for the reply sammy i done what you said but still no luck...

i made a boot disk with that program and i inserted the floppy into the defective computer then i checked that the floppy is first in list in the boot sequence in BIOS and rebooted... nothing, still same message "invalid system disk..." 

i've got a feeling it is something wrong with the A: drive because when the computer boots i can hear the cd checking but there is no sound coming from the A: drive, i know there is power because the light for it comes up but i dont think the computer even recognises or checkes the A: drive ... and another thing, i recently had to take the computer to a freiend because it was constantly beeping and he told me that the RAM was unpluuged. i got that fixed but i mention this because it i think that the A: drive might also be unplugged in some way.im not sure is there anyway to test it or check it in BIOS?

Before i formatted the computer, when i would open My Computer the A: drive icon would take a bit longer to load then the other icons (C: D: drive etc...) but i never actually put a floppy in there any tried it...

i really appreciate your help...
Moey


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Now that we know about the A: drive, open the CMOS Setup program again and look for a section that might be titled something similar to "Standard CMOS Features". You're looking for the screen that shows you the harddrive information, because that is most likely where the setting for the floppy drive is kept.

Look for the "Advanced BIOS Features" section (or whatever it might be called), then look for an option (probably near the boot order settings) titled "Floppy seek at bootup", or something similar. If that setting is DISABLED, the computer will NEVER be able to boot from the floppy drive, regardless of the boot order you've chosen.

Next, look at the back of the floppy drive and find the data cable (the one that looks like a long grey ribbon). Make sure it is FIRMLY connected to the back of the floppy drive, and that it is ALSO fully seated into the motherboard.

See this link for a photo of a typical FDD data cable:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/conf_Cable.htm

Good luck; take your time looking through the CMOS settings. Look for ANY sections that mention the A: drive, and look for a way to ENABLE the use of the A: drive, simply setting it as the first boot device is not enough. If the "Floppy seek at bootup setting is disabled, enable it, then remember to save your settings when you exit the CMOS. Reboot the system, and hope that you've solved the problem.

Let me warn you NOT to tamper with the power connector to the floppy drive; installing it improperly can cause SERIOUS problem, including melting the wiring harness from the PSU and destruction of the floppy drive itself, among many other bad things. I've SEEN this happen, and it was not pleasant to watch. Shutting the power off when the wiring harness began to smoke and melt was a good idea, or who knows what would have happened...


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

CMOS? im not too familiar with that, please explain it...

i checked for that setting in BIOS but i couldn't find anything like it (Floppy seek at bootup).
In the Boot screen this is what appears:
1.Removable Device: [Legacy Floppy]
2.APATI CD Rom: [CD-W54E]
3.IDE Harddrive: [QUANTUM FIREBALL1]
4.Other Boot Device: [INT18 Device (NET]

Boot time Diagnosis screen [Disabled]

The only thing the BIOS says about the A: drive is that it is a Legacy Floppy and it is 1.44M, 3.5 in.

I looked at the picture at http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/conf_Cable.htm and i looked at my A: drive and it seems to be plugged in with the 3.5" Drive "A" Connector, the one immidiatly after the "Twist"...

People have suggested to boot from the windows 98SE cd so i tried it but no luck, even when i put the CD Rom drive in 1st in Boot order. The same message comes up...


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

im almost certain there is something wrong with my A: drive.. is there anyway i can check to see if it's working or should i get a new one...

i checked the cable inside the computer that connects the motherboard and the A: drive and one of the teeth on the A: drive slot is missing... would that make a difference?


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

I just tried to connect another A: drive and i got the same message so there is nothing wrong with the A: drive i have installed... 

If it isnt the A: drive what can it be???


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Give us some details about the motherboard; if we know what motherboard you're using, we can probably find a user's manual to download (in .PDF format), and then we can give you more specific advice. Right now, we know nothing about the system you're working on, so no one can provide you anything except general suggestions.

Tell us DETAILS, so we can put our heads together and get you back on the right track. Which motherboard is it? Look for printing silk-screened on the board to help identify it; tell us everything you see on the monitor when you first boot the system.

Try this: Shut down, then HOLD DOWN the INSERT key while you turn the power on and boot the computer; that should force the computer to show you the BIOS ID string at the bottom of the monitor. Copy it down EXACTLY, and post it here.

If that doesn't work, shut down, unplug the keyboard, then boot the system. That will force a keyboard error, and that method should reveal the BIOS ID string to you.

Once you post details for us, someone should be able to help you get beyond this point.

I suspect that your system has an AMI BIOS, but we need details...


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

Hey i just tried all those things u told me but they woldnt work...

i think i got the motherboard type and ive attached a photo of what it says just before it goes to the message...

Motherboard: VIA VT82C694X

the A: drive is ohk so i think there is something wrong with the settings.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Mine also has a pin missing.

Could be a bad floppy controller on the motherboard.

There is also a CD ROM boot image you can download at:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/win_boot.iso

There are a lot of the DOS utilities there that don't normally get added when you make one from Win98. For example Diskcopy, Doskey, Format, More, Move, Sys, Edit, Chkdsk, Deltree, Extract, Updated Fdisk, Attrib, Label, Mem, Scandisk, Scanreg, Smartdrv and Xcopy.

It automatically loads with support for a generic CD ROM and assigns it the drive letter of X:. So after it boots, you go to X: to run things like FDISK and FORMAT. In your case you can boot, swap CD's and start the install.

In addition to all the other DOS utilities, the CD version also has:
DELPART - For deleting DOS and NTFS partitions. Can delete extended NTFS partitions.
FDISK121 - FDISK with additional options - See the documentation, and 
READNTFS - Read and Copy files on a NTFS partition.

The CD image needs to be burned using a program that recognized ISO images.

A small, free program to do this can be downloaded at:http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/burncdcc.zip. It is a single executalbe that is under 200k.


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Well, we now know that you're working on an HP Pavilion Pentium III @ 866MHz, using an Award Medallion BIOS v6.0; thanks for posting that photo of the screen. As I've mentioned, we need details, and that information will help me a lot. Bob is trying to help you work around the problem with the floppy drive, so you can continue the OS installation, and I'm concerned about solving the problem with the floppy drive.

Unfortunately, you've broken one of the cardinal rules of OS installation (MOST people do the same thing); you failed to boot the system with the bootup floppy BEFORE you wiped the drive. Booting from the floppy disk BEFORE you begin tests BOTH the floppy DISK and the floppy DRIVE to be SURE they function. Without knowing they both work as expected, and that you actually know how to use them, problems like this are bound to occur. Even worse, you don't know enough about setting the CMOS options to make the system boot from the floppy disk; again, setting the floppy drive to first in the boot order ISN'T always enough, as you've discovered.

We both want to help you, so I'll continue to research the changes you need to make in the CMOS settings while Bob tries to help you continue the OS installation on the system. Some people consider the floppy disk obsolete, but I still install one in every system I build; I consider it an essential tool because optical drives can't always read the disks that are installed in them.

Anyway, I fully realize how frustrating this is for you (we ALL know that kind of frustration; anyone who decides to work on a PC soon begins to learn just what true aggravation is). You have to be patient and logical; one way or the other, we'll get you up to speed as soon as possible, and you'll have learned a lot more about working on PCs than you probably wanted to know.

Keep punching, Moey; you're obviously not a quitter, and I commend you for that. If I find anything that might help you resolve the floppy drive problems, I'll post it right away. In the meantime, you might want to create a bootable CD as Bob has suggested. I'm sure he will be watching this thread closely, and waiting for your input.

Good luck, and remember to be patient; being patient will allow you to be logical and methodical in your approach to getting past this particular problem. I have no doubt that you'll get this resolved sooner rather than later.

FWIW, the missing pin you mentioned is to help make sure you install the floppy cable in the proper position. The floppy cable connector should have a pin-hole BLOCKED in the same position (not all of them actually do), and that would prevent you from installing the cable the wrong way. I'm glad you're so observant; attention to detail is critical when you work with PCs.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

A few options at this point:

1. Try the bootable CD

2. Try swapping with a known working floppy drive cable

3. Take out the drive, put it in another computer, make it bootable, copy the source files to a directory on the hard drive. Put it back in your computer, boot, change to the directory and install. 

Also for future use, you do not need to format the hard drive to get the benefits of a clean install.


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

When you get a chance, I'd like you to do this, then post whatever information you see on the monitor.

Boot the system, and during the POST process (which is the first thing the computer does when it is turned on), press the Control, Alt, and the letter "S" keys simultaneously. The combination of Ctrl+Alt+S should open a hidden information screen with specific details about your system. If you'll post them here, I can do some more research...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Does Ctrl-Alt-S supposed to work on all motherboard or just this particular one?
What hidden information does it show that is not normally displayed in the CMOS?


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Sorry about the delay in responding Bob; I have the flu, and barely have the energy look at a monitor or type much today.

The Ctrl+Alt+S key combination is used on most HP systems to reveal the BIOS ID string; took me a while to remember that, which is why I didn't post it previously. To answer your question more directly, it is pretty much HP-specific; I've seen other branded systems (some of the early Packard-Bell Pentium systems, some early E-Machines units, for example) where it was also used to disable the manufacturer's splash screen / logo, but it isn't a universal option.

Anyway, I should have included that information in my previous post, but I was more interested in staggering back to bed, which I'll be doing again minutes after I post this.

Good luck with this; I'm doing what I can to help, but until I can shake off this flu, it's going to be a real struggle, especially since I have to re-type almost every word (fingers and brain don't seem to want to cooperate right now).

I'll check back when I can...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Sorry about the flu.

Other than things like the manufacturer's logo, what would it allow you to do that would relate to the floppy drive not working?


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Actually, Bob, I'm hoping Moey will be able to locate and post the BIOS ID string, so I can try to find some details about it on the 'net. Then, I should be able to tell him which specific option to set to make the system check for a disk in the floppy drive, which (as you well know) is NOT the same as setting the system to boot from the floppy first. I suspect that some option (similar to the "Boot Up Floppy Seek" option available in older Award BIOS versions) has been disabled. Since ~90% of the HP motherboards of that era (Pentium II / III) were produced by Asus, I'm hoping there's a known workaround we can use to enable that option.

Odds are good that if Moey examines the motherboard closely, he'll see "ASUS" on at least a few of the chips...

Time will tell...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

So there is definately an option to check for the floppy in the hidden CMOS screen? It will good to find out exactly where it is located.


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

ohk guys sorry about my late reply but i will be trying all the things you have told me to do. bob i im downloading that image and i already have a program that can burn ISO images and sammy im trying to get the BIOS ID string but the computer doesnt seem to be giving me it... 

ill post back after i've tried all these things...

thanks


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

Hello Moey,

You are certainly in good hands with Bob and Sammy. There is however, one thing that needs to be clarified in regards to the floppy drive. In an earlier post you state that the floppy drive light is on yet the computer does not seem to be accessing it. My question is whether or not the light on the floppy drive stays on constantly, with or without a floppy disk inserted in the drive. If it does then the ribbon cable is reversed where it connects to the floppy drive.

Good luck.

Kilowatt


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

I just downloaded that image and burnt it to a CD Bob, i put it in the computer and this time i got a different message:

Boot from ATAPI CD ROM:
1.44MB Diskette.

i got that message but when i press any key it brings the old message up: Invalid system disk, replace and press any key.

Sammy, ive tried to get that String ID but the computer wont give it.. ive tried pressing Ctrl Alt S, still no luck it still boots the same way and doesn't display any extra information.

Is there any way i can get the computer to boot off a CD? because i dont think the computer is responding to the floppy drive but i will try another cable and see if it is the motherboard cable.

I dont think the pin that is missing is supposed to be missing because if i look on the cable there are no blocked slots which tells me that there should be a corresponding pin, so Bob im just wondering if a missing pin would make a difference or its just insignificant. 

I really appreciate your help guys thanks.


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Get back into the BIOS and set it to boot from the CD before the hard drive.


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

in reply to your question kilowatt the floppy drive light is always on... it doesnt flash or anything, it just stays on the whole time, with a floppy inside or without a floppy its always on.

Also kilowatt i hear no sounds coming from the floppy drive at all, usually on a working computer when i put a floppy inside it, i can hear sounds coming from the drive, thats why i say the computer is not accessing it.

Bob i put the CD first in the boot sequence but still hasn't changed anything.


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Moey:

Kilowatt is making an IMPORTANT point here, which I completely overlooked; if the floppy drive light is on ALL THE TIME, then the ribbon cable is NOT connected properly. One end or the other is reversed, so if you can, remove it from the motherboard and turn it around. If not, then reverse it at the back of the drive. I suspect someone disconnected it previously, and turned it around before they reconnected it. If the light stays on ALL THE TIME, with or WITHOUT a floppy in the drive, the reversed data cable will keep it from working properly.

Thanks for the info about Ctrl+Alt+S; it doesn't ALWAYS work on HP boards, but it was worth a try.

Trust me when I say that the missing pin is probably missing INTENTIONALLY; floppy drives do NOT use every wire, and some cables are "keyed" to only fit one way, while others are not. I personally dislike keyed cables, but to each his own.

Your last post tells us that Kilowatt is probably correct; the floppy drive light should NOT be on all the time. The long grey ribbon cable is NOT connected properly, so (as I've mentioned), you need to disconnected one end and turn it around before you reconnect it. Then turn the system on with NO FLOPPY DISK in the drive; if the floppy light isn't on ALL the time, you'll know you've got it connected properly. Do NOT tamper with the POWER connector; your problem now is with the ribbon (data) cable. When one end is reversed (which means Pin One on the cable is connected to Pin 34 on the motherboard, or to Pin 34 on the back of the floppy drive), the floppy drive light will stay on ALL the time, with or without a floppy disk in the drive.

Reverse one end of the cable (I suggest working at the motherboard end, so you don't disturb the power connector on the back of the floppy drive), test the system, and let us know what happens.


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

hey,

i think that might be the problem because as i said in my earlier post i had to take the computer to a friend because something was unplugged. I think this may also be the same type of problem.

I tried to flip the cable but no light would come on at all, with or without a floppy in the drive.

the pin that is missing is the second from the left on the bottom row and when i look at the corresponding slot on the cable there is no filling, this tells me that there should be a pin but there isn't.

Also my cable is not like the one shown here http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/conf_Cable.htm 
It is just 2 connectors, one for the Motherboard and one for the floppy drive.


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

A: DRIVE WORKS!!!

lol hey guys ive been trying to get the A: drive to work and i kept fliping the ribbon cable and it FINALLY worked!!!

you have no idea how happy i am after all these days finally its starting to work... 

Thank you so much guys. Sammy, Bob and kilowatt you guys are the best!


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Well, now you know that the missing pin probably isn't the problem. You're not out of the woods yet, but you're a lot better off than you were, and that is good to know.

Kilowatt gets the credit for the floppy drive solution; we ALL want to see you get the system working, but he's the guy who hit that nail on the head...

Glad you didn't simply give up on solving this; you're learning as you go, and that isn't the worst thing that can happen. You're probably an expert on how to properly install a floppy drive data cable now, and you'll learn more before this is over.

Keep punching, Moey, you're doing fine...


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

Yeah i've learnt a lot from you guys...

well now i can actually hear the A: drive reading the floppy but all i get now is a black screen with a flashing _ .

i'm going to try to make other startup floppys and see what happens, until then thanks guys.


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Bob Cerelli said:


> So there is definately an option to check for the floppy in the hidden CMOS screen? It will good to find out exactly where it is located.


Sorry if I've caused any confusion about the use of Ctrl-Alt-S; it is sometimes used to disable the splash screen / HP logo, though it doesn't work with all HP systems. If it had worked with this system, that would allow the user to find the BIOS ID string (the long string of data you can often see at the bottom of a monitor during the POST process).

Having the BIOS ID string can reveal details (through Google) about the motherboard and the BIOS version; if I had that information, I was hoping to find a copy of the CMOS Setup (screenshots) which would show us if there was an option to enable floppy seek at bootup, or something similar. Using Ctrl-Alt-S does NOT reveal any particular information about the floppy drive, or the system; sometimes, it DOES disable the splash screen, and that can often reveal the BIOS ID string.

As it turned out, the problem was that the floppy data cable wasn't installed properly; Kilowatt noticed a comment from the OP about the floppy drive light being on all the time, which was the clue to solving that problem.

Sorry to say, the Ctrl-Alt-S combination doesn't always work, though as I've mentioned, I've used it before on HP systems, early E-Machines systems, and others.

Hope this is clear now; I didn't intend to confuse anyone about the use of Ctrl-Alt-S...


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## ETS (Oct 13, 1999)

Hi folks,

You're in good company if you've been duped by that misleading "bootup floppy seek" setting. It's created a lot of confusion among techs. The fact is, it doesn't really do what you think.

It might generate an error message if it's enabled and your floppy drive isn't working, but if disabled, your floppy drive will still boot.

It's usually better to disable it because it only slows your boot process and causes unnecessary wear on your drive.

ETS


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

Hi, ETS,

Though I agree with you, I've seen older systems using the Award BIOS ( I don't remember the exact details; too many repairs over too many years) where the "floppy seek at bootup" option being disabled caused problems, but IIRC, those problems were pretty much eliminated after the Award 4.51PG BIOS was debugged a few times. I ALWAYS disable the "Bootup Floppy Seek" option on every modern system I work on, because (as you've pointed out), it DOESN'T interfere with booting from the floppy these days; I agree that it only spins the drive looking for a floppy, slowing the bootup process, which is a waste of time. I focused on it previously because we didn't know how old the system was, or which BIOS is installed. After that, I was more concerned with finding the BIOS ID string (I sometimes fixate on things), and that kept the subject of the floppy seek setting alive... I should have clarified that when I found out which BIOS was installed, but I'm fighting the flu, and focusing on details is more of a struggle than usual.

Thanks for posting, ETS; the modern BIOS in that system made my pursuit of both the BIOS ID string and the floppy seek option a complete waste of time and bandwidth. I would STILL have liked seeing the BIOS ID string, just so I can research it out of curiosity, but it really isn't material to this now.

NOW the question is, where wuz yuh when I NEEDED yuh?  

Thanks again

Sam


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

I'm curious how the cable would have gotten reversed before the floppy drive was swapped out with a known working one. Has it always been that way with the light being constantly on? 

Have you now been able to boot with the floppy and start the install?


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

I believe the system was previously "fixed" by a friend of the OP; he posted this back when I was still young:

"... and another thing, i recently had to take the computer to a freiend because it was constantly beeping and he told me that the RAM was unpluuged. i got that fixed but i mention this because it i think that the A: drive might also be unplugged in some way ..."

I would guess that the floppy cable was removed to access the RAM slots (some of those HP boxes are impossible to work on withput ripping them half-apart), and the cable was then installed the wrong way.

Just a guess, but one more reason why I hate working on those things; they even have a "feature" that "collapses" the case (think of a telescope) for normal use, to save space. You have to remove a bolt from the top side rail (near the back of the top-most optical drive) before you can expand the case enough to reach the guts. I guarantee you that the guy(s) who DESIGNED those cases DON'T have to work on them...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Guess there's been enough guessing ;-)


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## ETS (Oct 13, 1999)

Hi Sam,

Sorry I didn't discover this thread sooner. May have been some help.
I feel your pain. These floppy drives can be a real pain sometimes. You know, I once received a shipment of 6 SONY drives that all had the cables keyed backwards! They had the nodes on the side of the connector that fit into the slot on the drive. With these, backwards was the ONLY way you could plug them in. I ended up having to cut the nodes off with a knife to make the drives work.

Can you imagine if one of these fell into the hands of an inexperienced builder?
BUT MY CABLE IZZZZ PLUGGED IN CORRECTLY!
Anyway, I hope you feel better soon!

ETS


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## Moey (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi guys,

I just installed windows and everything is running sweet. 

thanks for all your help and yes sammy these HP systems r so small it is almost impossible to reach the RAM and motherboard.

I can't believe the solution was so simple and obvious...

Thanks again to all of you,
Moey


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## kilowatt1 (Oct 27, 2001)

:up: Great job Moey!

Glad to see you're up and running.


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## sammysosa (Nov 25, 2005)

We had faith in you Moey, it was only a matter of time...

Don't forget to mark this SOLVED by using the "Thread Tools" option near the top of this page, right above the first post.

You've learned more than you knew when this started; the more you know, the better it gets.

I tip my skidlid to kilowatt1, for finding the floppy problem...


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## Bob Cerelli (Nov 3, 2002)

Now you can also watch who works on your computer !!!


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